Over hyped virus or will it become the pandemic that will kickstart this decade off with a full blown recession coupled with death/fear? Nearly 15,000 new cases from a region in China confirmed just now as I type.
I always was of the opinion that we are closer to a new recession than we were to the one in 2008. I reckon this coronavirus will be the tipping point to break the global economy. I'm hoping the jump in numbers might spur some real preventative action. Been keeping an eye on the figures here (updated nightly) ->
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
At the moment it seems more contagious than SARS but less deadly. The thing that worries me most is the fact you can get pneumonia from it....which has the potential of permanently damaging your lungs/leaving you with complications later in life. Reports show it can take up to (and more) 14 days before symptoms show. Some people it takes 2 to 3 tests for it to show up as positive.
China are buckling under the pressure and for their economy are trying to reopen companies. Trade/tourism over health/contagion.
What do you reckon? It will go the way of SARS and be contained? We are in for an interesting year ahead.
It appears to be a nasty variation of the flu, going on what I have read. If you have respiratory or inmuno-problems, we will honour your memory. If you're fit and strong, a bumpy ride is ahead but recovery follows.
One thing is for sure, if something genuinely lethal develops we will all be dead in no time at all. The response of The Man has been lamentable at best. This was not even close to being contained. Realistically, though, can something like this ever be properly contained?
Quote from: Juggz on February 13, 2020, 06:07:49 AM
One thing is for sure, if something genuinely lethal develops we will all be dead in no time at all. The response of The Man has been lamentable at best. This was not even close to being contained. Realistically, though, can something like this ever be properly contained?
Pretty much, the Spanish flu in 1918 killed something like 80 million people? And that was before people could just hop on a flight to the other side of the world. I reckon if a similarly deadly strain came along the health systems worldwide would just be completely overwhelmed
The Jim Corr in me suspects it's possibly man made and was accidentally discharged. Whatever it is, the way it's been dealt with will do nothing to curb a global spread.
Quote from: Juggz on February 13, 2020, 06:07:49 AM
It appears to be a nasty variation of the flu, going on what I have read. If you have respiratory or inmuno-problems, we will honour your memory. If you're fit and strong, a bumpy ride is ahead but recovery follows.
One thing is for sure, if something genuinely lethal develops we will all be dead in no time at all. The response of The Man has been lamentable at best. This was not even close to being contained. Realistically, though, can something like this ever be properly contained?
Huzzah, immuno-compromised here. I'll donate my Chic records to the forum.
It's been fucking stupid how it's been handled. Wuhan should have been completely quarantined, if you're in there, sorry, but no getting out. There was English there, allowed back to England and now there's several cases of it there. If you're allowing people to travel from a highly infected area there's a high chance that they could bring infection with them.
I know there is a lot of inaccurate reports of the number of infected and dead, but by many reports it is spreading, people in Ireland have been tested for it, and sadly another effect of it it is causing racism against Chinese people.
There has been a few conspiracy theories about it too. The 20th year of each century:
1720 – The Bubonic Plague kills around 100 thousand people
1820 – A Cholera outbreak again kills almost 100 thousand people
1920 – Spanish Flu kills around 100 million people across the world
2020 – The Corona Virus
Only a matter of time until we get a case confirmed, if not this week then the next. I wouldn't put it past FF & FG to form a "grand coalition" with the Greens in the "national interest" citing the coronavirus outbreak as an emergency with the upcoming health & economic fallout...tying in the brexit trade talks as major concerns to having a "functional and stable" government. It's inevitable in my eyes that there will be a recession from this.
The concerns are -
People seem to be getting reinfected (or a relapse), there was cases in China but not reliable, now we have a case in Japan ->
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-japan-confirms-first-case-of-person-being-reinfected-with-covid-19-11944295
This means we should be doing everything possible to prevent the worse case scenario, this virus becoming part of the cold and flu season.
"Coronavirus far more likely than Sars to bond to human cells due to HIV-like mutation, scientists say Research by team from Nankai University shows new virus has mutated gene similar to those found in HIV and Ebola" ->
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052495/coronavirus-far-more-likely-sars-bond-human-cells-scientists-say
Top 3 valuable resources (no nonsense, no speculation shite) on the Coronavirus outbreak for me are ->
For regular updates ->
https://twitter.com/BNODesk
For numbers / map ->
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/a...23467b48e9ecf6
Dr John Campbells Youtube page ->
https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching
I've not bothered to get to in to everything going on with it but it seems it's getting spread more so by pure stupidity. People traveling to places that have reported outbreaks/incidents or people living in these places travelling in the same manner.
The level of stupidity we show as a race sometimes is immense.
Looks like a confirmed case in Norn Iron, someone returning from a trip to Italy. The person returned home via Dublin too.
Looks like Italy is gonna be a bit of a hotbed as the first case in Denmark was also confirmed today, the person was also on holiday in Italy.
Some sober analysis here:
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
Coronavirus Cases:
88,339
Deaths:
3,001
Recovered:
42,728
Quote from: The Butcher on February 27, 2020, 10:56:33 AM
Only a matter of time until we get a case confirmed, if not this week then the next.
And we got it, one up North and one down south. It's absurd to think that the HSE/dept of health can keep the school/location a secret in the age of social media. Limiting information only serves to build up rumours and speculation (I saw 3 different locations about the "man from the east" over the weekend), it was led to more distrust and a lack of confidence in the officials handling the outbreak. What dopes.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 28, 2020, 04:13:55 PM
Some sober analysis here:
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
I've been doing a good lot of reading on the research coming out of Asia (mainly China) on the damage the virus does, now it's limited on the people that recover but some reporting kidney/testes damage (male infertility - ouch) but the main damage is respiratory, due to pneumonia, scarring left on the lungs. Now anyone that has been damage from pneumonia know how life changing that kind of thing can be.
We've had 3 doctors come out last week saying we have zero capacity to deal with an outbreak. There are no available slots in our ICUs at present and we know the story with the trolley situation, we are going to find out by April how our system can handle it.
I'm not liking the flu comparison bandied about the place. On average, seasonal flu strains kill about 0.1 percent of people who become infected. So far the estimate for this is somewhere between 1-2% (Dr John Campbell says this varies depending on the state of a countries healthcare system). But put that into age brackets and it's basically a concern for anyone over 50 or anyone with pre-existing conditions (immunocompromised / respiratory etc).
Dr Campbell puts the infection rate of the flu at 1.4-1.5 while he puts the coronavirus based on the research so far to about 2.6 (Every 1 person infects 2.6 people) which is much higher.
He also mentions in one of his latest youtube videos that we are in the first wave. An interesting and subtle sentence but after watching a BBC documentary on the Spanish flu, they talked about waves, the first wave being the bird to human transmission that seem to devastate older people and it was only when the second wave of human to human transmission came about that it started to kill off younger healthier people. Something to keep an eye on for the months ahead as this is not going anyway any time soon.
The fact we have free movement of travel and high density living means we were never going to realistically contain this virus. China just bought the rest of the world time, all we can do now is slow the spread and not let it overwhelm the health sector. Next month is going to be interesting. I do hope it goes the way of SARS and mutates down a less infectious path and dies out within 8 months like SARS did. Let's wait and see.
https://twitter.com/aliostad/status/1233668766124400640?s=19
A sobering read on the situation in Iran.
---duplicate post
Think it's almost certain that China are understating the numbers affected and/or dead. Seen a few people saying this could be their Chernobyl in terms of snapping public fear and bringing criticism out in to the open, although I'm not sure I'd fancy anyone's chances given what is happening with the Uighur population there.
Seen a video posted of some of the goings on over.. if its true its really grim.
Iran's looking pretty bad too. Seems the government sat on the whole thing for a few weeks in order to get a big turnout for the elections, allowing it to spread unchecked, and now they're dropping in the streets.
Gotta block it all out and go live my best life rather than destorying my brain cells any further thinking / complaining about these fuck heads :abbath:
They should be taking Therapys advice on the whole thing ->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZwXCDqlE9I
Joy Division's advice :)
Quote from: pete on March 02, 2020, 03:50:48 PM
Joy Division's advice :)
Was just about to say the same! :laugh:
A lot of talk about things being cancelled/postponed. Already some rugby has been put on hold and there's some concern over the toyko olympics and the Euro's. Even the new James Bond film has been pushed from April to November because of it.
Wonder if this well cause problems for things like Glastonbury, Download etc and even our Belsonic. This better not stop Maiden and Ramnestien coming here or I'll be most dischuffed.
I don't like hysteria but surely flights from Italy could be postponed for a week or two and try to get a handle on things. There's loads of banter and then fuck all actual decisions made as far as I can tell.
That's because ultimately everything is considered in terms of money rather than resources.
4 cases in Galway now, all (connected to) people who'd travelled from northern Italy. Past time to limit travel from that area, though how it'd be implemented I don't know.
They are saying it's Clare not Galway. School closed for 2 weeks.
https://www.clareecho.ie/reports-coronavirus-case-in-clare/
Ah right. Probably in the old TB unit in Merlin Park in Galway, it's set up for isolation.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 04, 2020, 10:16:26 PM
That's because ultimately everything is considered in terms of money rather than resources.
Yep
Gawd forbid they'd lose out on their few hundred euro trip. Feck the rest of the country.
Holidays for us in Ireland this year unless things change in the next couple of months.
I can see the news media tiring of reporting this with its current fervour before cases have even slowed down. Make no mistake, I am taking it as seriously and pragmatic as necessary - with the associated common sense hygiene measures - but at the end of the day unless the actual mortality rate starts shooting up too I can't see a way out of this just becoming a regular part of the flu season now.
The silver lining there is that the panic will go down immeasurably, some of the more unsavoury "GIVE ME THE ADDRESSES OF THE CHILDREN WHO WERE INFECTED AND CANCEL THE ECONOMY" lunatics will fuck off, and we'll all get on with it a whole lot better. Again not making light of it - and the current awareness levels we have around it are useful - but this isn't the apocalypse. The most miserable thing for the vast majority of us about it is the constant shroud of doomsday coverage.
As crazy as it might seem right now, I can see people tiring of this mid spread and moving on to something else. That's social media for you. My hunch is that we'll get bored of it before it gets bored of us.
Good article in the IT today:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/how-we-can-combat-the-coronavirus-infodemic-1.4192897?fbclid=IwAR22OefzwWI4Rhct-NlTWJJp2KC9CoNq-_R-hLkcUasYRYqRhBfEHoQvvLk#.XmAA2Qbr4IE.facebook
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 05, 2020, 07:32:59 AM
Gawd forbid they'd lose out on their few hundred euro trip. Feck the rest of the country.
Holidays for us in Ireland this year unless things change in the next couple of months.
I should have mentioned that my daughter's immune system is shot to pieces these last few years. So we're not taking any chances....
Spreading quite rapidly around our little island now.
Tool fans 'may have been exposed to coronavirus' at show.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51766702 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51766702)
Bunch of Paddy's Day parades cancelled now too.
It's birthed this diversion at least :laugh:
https://washyourlyrics.com/
Use Carcass or Cannibal Corpse never gets old on that.
Anyone else reckon this will lead to a lot of cancelled gigs?
For sure. I've got tickets to a couple of gigs abroad in May that I'm... not expecting to be cancelled, but I won't be surprised if they're cancelled and then have the ballache of trying to squeeze refunds out of transport and accommodation already booked.
Quote from: Hank Hill on March 10, 2020, 10:21:08 AM
Anyone else reckon this will lead to a lot of cancelled gigs?
We're in the containment phase right now so I'd imagine this is the peak of potential cancellations. If it beats our containment efforts then I think we'll just get on with it rather than keep things on lockdown moving into summer. The warmer climate will likely give us respite whilst a vaccination is being worked on, and I have a hunch that as infection rates go up and models improve to take unreported cases into account, the mortality rate will go down slightly. Lot of experts coming out with <2.0% as opposed to the 3.4% that's regularly touted.
If we hamstring the economy and ebb and flow of life as we know it it'll only cost us far more, and not just money. We don't throw away our recreational passions and way of living for the flu season every year.
Yeah I'm not seeing any metal band cancelling shows except maybe big leaguers who can afford to take the hit. That's certainly a positive.
Quote from: Hank Hill on March 10, 2020, 10:21:08 AM
Anyone else reckon this will lead to a lot of cancelled gigs?
Absolutely. Italy, France, Austria have all already forbidden gatherings of 1,000 or more people, football matches are either cancelled (Italy) or taking place in empty stadiums (France, Germany).
Exodus and Testament had their Milan cancelled but that is par for the course right now. I'd say some of the bigger promoters behind Download, Wacken and Hellfest might start worrying soon. I'm off to Roadburn and Ascension this year and that 100 quid I dropped on travel insurance in January could end up being very good value for money.
It's as much the agents deciding to cancel the tours as the venues being obliged by the national powers that be which will see concerts pulled. It's in the bands' and the agents' interests to pull the plug asap if they estimate a likelihood of several cities being unplayable when the time comes. A list of cancelled shows here, including Pearl Jam who have just postponed their entire US tour:
https://www.kerrang.com/the-news/heres-a-list-of-all-of-the-bands-who-have-cancelled-shows-due-to-coronavirus/
As "social distancing" measures are cranked up, this will start to impact essentially any kind of indoor gig, regardless of size. That is, of course, if the present propagation of the virus continues as predicted over the next month or two.
I'm probably wrong in saying this but sure, here goes... With the talk of the corona virus possibly bringing on a global recession is it not about time the world's governments started trying to rein in the hysteria a bit? This is essentially a new strain of flu, or something similar, and will most likely be forgotten in a year's time (cut to me heavily editing this thread in eleven and a half months). The same people who are at risk are the same people who are at risk every winter, ie the elderly and those with a compromised immune system. I'm not sure how creating global panic, effectively shutting down entire countries and potentially causing a massive world wide recession which, if the last one was anything to go by, will be a colossal tragedy for many people who are otherwise going to be unaffected buy this, is a responsible way to react. I get that this is spreading more quickly than regular flu, but does it actually pose a greater danger to those who are likely to have caught the flu anyway?
(Shuts lid on bunker and jams fingers in ears)
Those Hong Kong protesters sure disappeared quickly, eh? ;)
The mortality rate is over 3%, compared with the common flu which is 0.1 or 0.01, I can't remember which. That alone is worrying. Is there hysteria, yes. But even if the symptoms are mild, I wouldn't want to be a carrier and infect/kill someone with a compromised immune system. I know one of the aulde lads in work, who is generally a pillar of sense, is actually worried as he is a 60yr old asthmatic.
This is it. Feels a little smoke screeny. I might be way off base and if so then, yeah, egg on my face. It just seems a bit like the hype du jour.
There's way too much (mis) information out there. It's simply unavoidable on the airwaves or online.
For first-hand perspective, my good lady is from Sardinia with an 82 year-old mother. She was supposed to be going back to visit next week but was advised not to by her family as the flight involved changing in Milan. She decided to postpone the trip and the flights have now been cancelled anyway. She has a friend who is a doctor in Milan who said they have too many sick people to cope with right now, they're overwhelmed.
Like Emphyrio said, while you may not feel threatened by it, the thought of infecting an old parent would be a brutal thing to have to live with. I've no doubt a lot of political or social inconveniences are being dealt with or brushed under the table while the news is dominated by it, but it's still killing people, just not an an apocalyptic rate. If we had as many corpses as Italy I'm sure we'd be a little more sympathetic, myself included.
The mortality rate is not 3%. Any figure around 3% or higher is based on dividing the number of deaths by the number of confirmed, tested cases. However, everything we know about this virus suggests that there are many, many more people who have caught it but have not been tested. There are specialists within the WHO contesting their head's figures on this, as well as the chief medical officer in the UK, as well as simply the fact that we know not everyone is being tested and that many people display such mild or asymptomatic symptoms they won't even check-in, or depending on the country they'll call the hotline and be told not to do anything unless they develop respiratory problems.
They're saying there are 120,000 or so cases globally. That's confirmed cases. In reality it could be double or even ten times that.
And age, we know, is a huge factor. Average age of those who have died in Italy is 81 (yes, average!), meaning the reason they seem to have so many deaths is, at base, a function of their incredible longevity.
The strategy now isn't so much to stop the spread as to slow it down enough that they can filter cases through the medical services without swamping them. Does a high risk individual have a higher chance of survival if they arrive to a hospital that isn't overwhelmed? Perhaps. Certainly slowing it down gives more time to work on treatments which may help.
Yeah it's much more serious than the flu. We're operating from a much smaller data set for now, but it looks to be exponentially more deadly. The fact that you're contagious for upto two weeks before you start displaying symptoms is a potential recipe for disaster if it's not taken seriously.
I agree that there's a bit too much hysteria surrounding it, bit that's a sign o' the social media-obsessed, instant information times we live in. I do think the cautious response is justified though. Far too many times we hear of the door being closed after the horse has bolted, for once they're actually trying to keep it closed before we hit that point.
I will say too that as someone with a compromised immune system (diabetes, and they've already found diabetes to be one of the common underlying health issues in those that have died) I'm happy to lay low. When I get a cold, it can take me twice as long to get over it and it hits me like a tonne of bricks. Infections royally fuck with your glucose levels. Which makes me sicker and weaker. Which makes it harder to recover, which makes it harder to control glucose and energy levels, which makes it harder to recover and so on.
The WHO have been speculating about a so-called"Disease X" for a number of years now and reckon that so far this fits the bill. It may or may not, but do we really want to end up with egg on our collective faces if it pulls a Spanish Flu on us?
Yeah, of course caution is to be advised and prevention is better than cure but when it gets to the point where a global recession is being talked about you can't help but wonder if things are being blown out of proportion.
If you're under the weather, don't visit dear old aunty Mavis in the nursing home and don't visit friends or family with other health issues. A bit of hand sanitizer and common sense can go a long way here.
As Chris said above, the average age of fatalities in Italy is 81 so maybe if the corona virus didn't get them, the flu or pneumonia would have. Maybe?
My phone keeps giving me headlines from the UK telling me the new updated number of cases confirmed there and it is beginning to feel a bit like a spectator sport.
Had to go to hospital today for an X-ray after I hurt my hand, and it's scary the amount of people coughing and wearing masks in the waiting area.
That seems to be a big issue, people flooding to hospitals and emergency rooms with any type of symptom demanding to be tested etc
Just listened to this and I've no jdea what this guy's background is or if he tends to exaggerate etc, but I will say that it made me poop a little in my pants. I'm in Madrid, they've closed down all the schools and Universities. I work in 2 Universities here and lots of American students are being called home. Heard from a colleague that a Chinese student of theirs had symptoms for a number of weeks, told noone and was coming to class regularly before boarding a plane back home. Now his Spanish teacher is in quarantine and a bunch of classmates are sick. Chinese lad I train with is seriously freaked out about the whole thing, he's making me nervous as fuck talking about it and I never react to these things. Anyway here's the link:
https://youtu.be/cZFhjMQrVts
Apparently the number of new cases in China has plummeted today. I wonder can we discreetly sweep the storm back into the teacup?
I'd tend to think the way you're thinking but you'd have to wonder with whole countries on lockdown to be fair. Madrid here has a pppulation of 6.5 million. Every school is closed, every public gym, all Universities. Again, I get the drama queen element to it, but looking at the measures they're taking, one would start to wonder if it's a tad worse than they're letting on. Really hoping it fucks off in a few weeks but I'm torn between being completely blasé about it and then a little voice in my head saying 'yeah, they don't just shut down the whole of the north of Italy if things aren't at least a tad bit serious'.
Probably need to just man the fuck up tbh :laugh:
Well I haven't a fucking clue, obviously, but I can't help but see this as part of a bigger hysterical trend that could be tied back (like everything else) to social media in some way. The instant nature of news reporting now that has to try to compete with the mania of Facebook and Twitter and whatever other bullshit is de rigeur these days so you end up with YELLOW WEATHER WARNINGS! Oh fuck, what does that mean? Rain... Oh, right yeah.
Again, probably way off the mark and just shooting from the hip as is my way, but when I think of this in light of bird flu, equine flu, swine flu, SARS, Ebola, the Taliban, Weight Watchers Eclairs YUM! What was my point again? Oh yeah, load a bollix.
The thing is, with the flu, there's a seasonal vaccine (granted not a huge % get it) but we know roughly the amount of numbers that will enter our hospitals every season. It's not a surprise to the health system (and we know the story with the Irish health system regards trolleys/waiting lists and the rest). Flu death rate from WHO/CDCs usually puts it at around 0.1%.
The reason why this COVID-19 is discussed (to death by some) is because it's new and we really don't know how it will pan out. We will only know the proper death rate when this is all over but WHO currently put it at 3.4%, this changes from country to country - like Italy who have an older population and places like South Korea with a much lower death rate because they are testing everyone (drive thru testing). Northern Italian hospitals are overrun with people, the health system is collapsing there in terms of it being a war zone type situation, having to choose who lives or dies. I started the thread off in the middle seeing both sides - I'm not panicked but I'm more concerned/prepared myself. What we do determines what happens to older people and people with pre-existing conditions. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I've been tracking this since January and as time has gone on the more convinced I am that this is not hysteria. You just need to see the drastic measures China had to implement in order to try slow the spread. Iran has become a complete mess and not handling it at all.
Ebola is so fatal that it's hard to spread around, this has the perfect balance so far, I was never concerned with Swine flu / SARS / MERS and the rest when it all came out, this is different. We have our heads in the sand when it comes to this and I really don't like this "I'm alright jack" attitude. The economy was on course for a recession regardless of this, it's been a talking point for 2 years now...we just have extremely low interest rates and Central banks printing money out the ying yang with QE to keep the holey bucket from leaking, if you looked at the German/Japanese stats, they were heading for a downturn...now this coronavirus has pushed a recession quicker and further down the tracks. Global recession happens regardless of a few of us posting on online forums. Again it reminds me of this talk of "doom mongers" "talking down the economy" back in 2006. Bertie Ahern with his famous "why don't they commit suicide?". We will talk ourselves into a recession is just daft.
We are being told to listen to our experts. Remember those Irish "experts" during the property bubble era of 2006? "Fill your shoes with bank shares" they said. And we all know what happened...I'd rather listen to the experts in the countries that this is effecting the most and what we can learn from their experiences. The response to this has been shocking in my eyes. We had our Chief Medical Officer saying 3 weeks ago that we MIGHT get 1 or 2 cases in the COMING MONTHS and we are will positioned to manage it....he will be the equivalent of our financial regulator Pat Neary when this is over. And they said "it takes more than 15 minutes to risk infection if you are beside someone with COVID-19" What the fuck like...these are our experts?! RTE telling people to put signs on the door if you are infected...talk about harking back to the plague times! They cancelled the rugby because they were worried about "large crowds in close proximity" but with the same breath saying they saw "no implications" "No reason" to cancel the parades...fast forward to now and they are cancelled.
It has the huge potential to cripple/overwhelm our health services with even heavily conservative numbers of infection rates here. I don't call this panic, this is a call to be alert, not alarmed. Again I hope I'm wrong, if we can slow the spread, push it out until April maybe the warm weather will help if it's seasonal but gives it time to wait on a vaccine. We are an island that gives us a huge advantage too, just hope our officials become more proactive than reactive currently. Just don't read about the first/second waves of the Spanish flu and then the fear will definitely set in!
Quote from: The Butcher on March 11, 2020, 10:17:00 AM
The thing is, with the flu, there's a seasonal vaccine (granted not a huge % get it) but we know roughly the amount of numbers that will enter our hospitals every season. It's not a surprise to the health system (and we know the story with the Irish health system regards trolleys/waiting lists and the rest). Flu death rate from WHO/CDCs usually puts it at around 0.1%.
The reason why this COVID-19 is discussed (to death by some) is because it's new and we really don't know how it will pan out. We will only know the proper death rate when this is all over but WHO currently put it at 3.4%, this changes from country to country - like Italy who have an older population and places like South Korea with a much lower death rate because they are testing everyone (drive thru testing). Northern Italian hospitals are overrun with people, the health system is collapsing there in terms of it being a war zone type situation, having to choose who lives or dies. I started the thread off in the middle seeing both sides - I'm not panicked but I'm more concerned/prepared myself. What we do determines what happens to older people and people with pre-existing conditions. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I've been tracking this since January and as time has gone on the more convinced I am that this is not hysteria. You just need to see the drastic measures China had to implement in order to try slow the spread. Iran has become a complete mess and not handling it at all.
Ebola is so fatal that it's hard to spread around, this has the perfect balance so far, I was never concerned with Swine flu / SARS / MERS and the rest when it all came out, this is different. We have our heads in the sand when it comes to this and I really don't like this "I'm alright jack" attitude. The economy was on course for a recession regardless of this, it's been a talking point for 2 years now...we just have extremely low interest rates and Central banks printing money out the ying yang with QE to keep the holey bucket from leaking, if you looked at the German/Japanese stats, they were heading for a downturn...now this coronavirus has pushed a recession quicker and further down the tracks. Global recession happens regardless of a few of us posting on online forums. Again it reminds me of this talk of "doom mongers" "talking down the economy" back in 2006. Bertie Ahern with his famous "why don't they commit suicide?". We will talk ourselves into a recession is just daft.
We are being told to listen to our experts. Remember those Irish "experts" during the property bubble era of 2006? "Fill your shoes with bank shares" they said. And we all know what happened...I'd rather listen to the experts in the countries that this is effecting the most and what we can learn from their experiences. The response to this has been shocking in my eyes. We had our Chief Medical Officer saying 3 weeks ago that we MIGHT get 1 or 2 cases in the COMING MONTHS and we are will positioned to manage it....he will be the equivalent of our financial regulator Pat Neary when this is over. And they said "it takes more than 15 minutes to risk infection if you are beside someone with COVID-19" What the fuck like...these are our experts?! RTE telling people to put signs on the door if you are infected...talk about harking back to the plague times! They cancelled the rugby because they were worried about "large crowds in close proximity" but with the same breath saying they saw "no implications" "No reason" to cancel the parades...fast forward to now and they are cancelled.
It has the huge potential to cripple/overwhelm our health services with even heavily conservative numbers of infection rates here. I don't call this panic, this is a call to be alert, not alarmed. Again I hope I'm wrong, if we can slow the spread, push it out until April maybe the warm weather will help if it's seasonal but gives it time to wait on a vaccine. We are an island that gives us a huge advantage too, just hope our officials become more proactive than reactive currently. Just don't read about the first/second waves of the Spanish flu and then the fear will definitely set in!
great points!!
There's a lad in the office here who sounds like he's bringing up a furball. Ok, it may not be Covid-19 but, given the attention being given to virus transmission, you'd think he might have had the cop-on to stay at home and not give whatever the fuck he has to everyone here.
Quote from: Juggz on March 11, 2020, 11:01:49 AM
There's a lad in the office here who sounds like he's bringing up a furball. Ok, it may not be Covid-19 but, given the attention being given to virus transmission, you'd think he might have had the cop-on to stay at home and not give whatever the fuck he has to everyone here.
My housemate has been sent home from work with exactly this, he was basically walked straight back out of the office after 30 seconds. Luckily he works for a big company with a fairly well-established remote access network and can easily work from home. I do worry about how well smaller businesses will cope if they have to start sending lots of staff home.
Quote from: Juggz on March 11, 2020, 11:01:49 AM
There's a lad in the office here who sounds like he's bringing up a furball. Ok, it may not be Covid-19 but, given the attention being given to virus transmission, you'd think he might have had the cop-on to stay at home and not give whatever the fuck he has to everyone here.
I've been half spluttering all week, but I'm always a bit like this anyway in the colder weather, I wouldn't go into the office like this in the current climate anyway but in any event we've all been told to work from home, thank fk for decent broadband....
Been having fun perusing this today:
https://ourworldindata.org/causes-of-death
Perspective and all that. 10% of global deaths are in the under 5 age bracket, but in high income nations that drops to 0.6%, meaning that 94% of global infant deaths are avoidable.
Major causes of death in the 50-69 and 70+ groups also of interest. Lots of interesting things in there: "too much fuckin' perspective" to quote David St.Hubbins.
Quote from: kiehozero on March 11, 2020, 11:19:07 AM
Quote from: Juggz on March 11, 2020, 11:01:49 AM
There's a lad in the office here who sounds like he's bringing up a furball. Ok, it may not be Covid-19 but, given the attention being given to virus transmission, you'd think he might have had the cop-on to stay at home and not give whatever the fuck he has to everyone here.
My housemate has been sent home from work with exactly this, he was basically walked straight back out of the office after 30 seconds. Luckily he works for a big company with a fairly well-established remote access network and can easily work from home. I do worry about how well smaller businesses will cope if they have to start sending lots of staff home.
Was just saying to someone last night I can see a lot of employers refusing to pay people especially in the event of a lockdown. I can't imagine any legislation or anything is in place for an event like this. I am in a place now that is a lot worse then Ireland and all we are are getting is some politicians saying "don't travel unless it's necessary" yeah my boss is going to accept that. I can easily work from home but nobody is being given that option. I spend about 40mins each way on a jam packed subway full of asians each day it doesn't fill you with confidence when you see how this thing is getting worse with each passing day.
Could be worse. Could be packed with Italians :rolleyes:
Yes but at least the Italians wouldn't demand be taken out of Italy to other countries.
I think the blasé attitude isn't going to work this time. Just listened to a young 30 something Spanish doctor who works in Milan describing what's happening there. Said they have the best health system in Italy and the first patient was a 38 yr old perfectly healthy individual who was on a respiratory machine for 18 days before finally being able to breathe solo yesterday. Issue is there are no more of these machines left, so if there's a car accident or something completely unrelated where they need one to keep someone alive, well you can see how fucked the system starts to get when numbers start increasing. Basically Coronavirus is generally not to be worried about but if you do get sick then we're going into dodgy territory. He urged a civic duty response to the issue, stay indoors, away from big gatherings, basically the less you're breathing on people the less chance of contagion, which has a cumulative effect then overall. I see the message as positive, I've pushed back on the likes of your Greta Thurnbergs in the past, but maybe it's not a bad thing for me to review my own behaviour and adjust it towards the greater good. Who knows it may have knock on effects in terms of the other issues that are out there at the moment.
I am at the moment reconsidering my approach to heading out this weekend to two gigs in Cork - purely on the basis that if I do pick something up, it's on me that I went out and got it, and I would not want to inflict it on my aging parents.
There is of course the element of a generalised fear of what may or may not happen here of course, but I reckon it's better to be at least aware that if you are heading out to gatherings, there is the possibility that you could catch Covid-19.
Went to go go see the doctor today for a long ago scheduled check up. She looked in tatters and was carrying wads of tissues around with more unopened packs on the desk. I maintained a polite distance.
I just hope the international acts due to play Redemption fest don't cancel. I ain't paying €50 for a primordial gig :laugh:
Quote from: Pedrito on March 11, 2020, 03:33:14 PM
Just listened to a young 30 something Spanish doctor who works in Milan describing what's happening there. Said they have the best health system in Italy and the first patient was a 38 yr old perfectly healthy individual who was on a respiratory machine for 18 days before finally being able to breathe solo yesterday. Issue is there are no more of these machines left, so if there's a car accident or something completely unrelated where they need one to keep someone alive, well you can see how fucked the system starts to get when numbers start increasing.
That's the concern around it. Lombardy's health service scores 9.9/10 in OECD ranking and is in the top 5% in health compared across all OECD regions. COVID19 mortality rate in Lombardy is now 8%, more than double Wuhan. Lombardy health system is completely beyond ability to deliver adequate care - rationing who gets ICUs. We had 3 doctors come out 2 weeks ago saying we had zero capacity to deal with an outbreak here. Can only imagine what will happen to the third world that can't even test for it.
First death confirmed in Ireland and the WHO has declared it a pandemic.
As I've been saying all along, it's time to take this thing seriously! [Edit edit edit]
The woman in Ireland who died, it has to be pointed out, was both elderly AND had an underlying health issue. I think a big problem will be, as a consequence of the amount of coverage it's getting, you'll have every Tom, Dick and Harry with a runny nose clogging up the system and fucking things up for people who are actually at the most risk. But sure...
I hear you but 168 deaths in Italy in one day, whatever age they are, as a result of the virus, is a number that needs to be taken seriously. The danger is the dopes of course, I'm sure the supermarkets are being emptied as we speak, selfish arseholes are what caused the outbreak in the first place and the rest of us have to put up with them unfortunately.
I have what would be considered an underlying respiratory condition which is the main reason I am getting very worried if I catch this thing I am most likely fucked. As of now my plans will stay as before because as long as my employer is forcing me to travel during rush hour that's my biggest chance of catching this thing. The shitty thing is where I am if you have to go through incubation your employer will not pay you for the time missed nor will the Government give you anything either. If I lose out on 2 weeks pays unexpectedly it will leave me in a pretty bad situation.
My parents are elderly and it's a worry but I worry about everything to the point of agony. It's just how I am. The W.H.O have recommended that people check in with the news sources in the morning and evening to try and get people to stop staring into the void that is the smart phone.
What's the story with the toilet paper craze? How much shitting are people expecting?
I was wondering that..jesus people must be on the bowl day and night to use so much. Could they not give their arse a wash or something afterwards? Are they eating the stuff? Fuckin animals!
I usually buy a 24 pack for the convenience (and having fucking IBS), and I'm due a purchase this week.
I'll look like a mentaller now..
Graphs all over the shop
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
20% decrease in shifting and fingering in towns throughout Ireland..terrifying
Quote from: Aborted on March 11, 2020, 08:43:21 PM
Graphs all over the shop
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Read that today. Hardcore, not for the faint-hearted. But still stands that panic is not helpful at all
Had to stop reading it..freaking me out
Quote from: Pedrito on March 11, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
20% decrease in shifting and fingering in towns throughout Ireland..terrifying
:laugh: :laugh:
I see there's a shit ton of the usual fuckers spreading trojans etc into peoples computers etc through fake links to live updates on the virus info etc
Might have been linked already but this seems to be the best real one of the lot
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR0h-FL0VHEo4ixHW6wbOFNMIjqY75OxCdJKw_2wL7QX15BJYTJTflk2G5k
Ireland with 43 cases / 2 recovered and 1 death!!
Yeah, scary stuff alright. Completely agree that panicking is not helpful but difficult not to get caught up in the hysteria. I've been immunosuppressed for a while due to a chronic illness, and my missus is in the late stages of pregnancy. There's no real evidence to suggest the virus passes to foetus during pregnancy but it's all a bit worrying nonetheless.
I've been told to work from home until further notice, as have all non-site essential staff in my place.
Quote from: Juggz on March 11, 2020, 09:52:36 PM
I've been told to work from home until further notice, as have all non-site essential staff in my place.
Do you work for an international?
We're still waiting for the French government to get the finger out and close the schools and university campuses (couple of weeks working from home would suit me down to the ground!). No such luck so far, despite the high possibility of an enormous bubble of true cases hidden beneath the 2000 or so confirmed cases here. A GP I was talking to the other day said France is fucked in terms of medical services when this scales up, yet very, very little in the way of intervention compared to what I hear happening in Ireland, and ye are at least a few days "behind" us in outbreak terms.
On the other hand, very little panic so far here too compared to what I'm hearing from Ireland. Island mentality?? Ex-impoverished mentality?? Dunno.
Quote from: Nail_Bombed on March 11, 2020, 04:16:05 PM
I am at the moment reconsidering my approach to heading out this weekend to two gigs in Cork - purely on the basis that if I do pick something up, it's on me that I went out and got it, and I would not want to inflict it on my aging parents.
There is of course the element of a generalised fear of what may or may not happen here of course, but I reckon it's better to be at least aware that if you are heading out to gatherings, there is the possibility that you could catch Covid-19.
Even that may not be enough to avoid contact with the virus and it just goes to show how interconnected every one really is even if we may feel like isolated at times. The thing of course is than even the slowing down of the spread can be a big advantage to prevent services becoming overwhelmed with a sharp rise in cases. I suspect that I have myself and have already passed it on to people more vulnerable and I am hardly to most social person but I could be wrong of course.
Fuck me, you should see Tesco in newtownabbey tonight. Tesco's profits should be through the roof now.
People panic buying only force everyone else too.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 11, 2020, 06:31:57 PM
I was wondering that..jesus people must be on the bowl day and night to use so much. Could they not give their arse a wash or something afterwards? Are they eating the stuff? Fuckin animals!
My van is parked outside with my sign:
There Are
NO
TOILET ROLLS Stored In This
Van Overnight!
I SHIT you not :laugh:
First cured cases discharged from Irish hospital today. 81-90% of people who get it only have very mild issues and can recover at home, not one fatality worldwide of kids under 9 and 0.2% fatality rate for people aged 10-40.
We reassured our Beaver Scout group tonight as it's basically hysteria in the media day in day out and no-one's discussing with kids. Told them the importance of washing hands thoroughly in any event to protect older people etc as people generally miss so much of their hand surface even when spending time at it. Pretend you're a surgeon scrubbing up pre-op...
...and don't be the complete ignoramous in the toilet cubicle next to me in work today who just avoided washing hands completely. They left the bathroom without a second thought before I got out. Jesus these animals disgust me all the time but now with all the signs and media attention to wash hands and control the spread of covid it just beggars belief. :o >:(
I thought this was a good article
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0310/1121444-10-reasons-not-to-panic-about-the-coronavirus/
67,000 people recovered so far, don't hear so much about that either.
Tonight Basketball Ireland cancelled all activities until further notice. Brave decision as there was only 1 weekend left in the Men's Super League, thought they might have waited til Sunday!
Just waiting on gig cancellations... and the cancellation of the PL so Liverpool don't win the league :laugh: :laugh:
Liverpool the new Man United it seems.
Premier league games gointg to be played behind closed doors,a few journalists tweeting in the last few minutes.
Quote from: Hank Hill on March 10, 2020, 10:21:08 AM
Anyone else reckon this will lead to a lot of cancelled gigs?
Burn my tickets, brah
Quote
"It is with heavy heart that we must announce the postponement of our upcoming EU/UK tour in support of the 25th anniversary of Burn My Eyes.
As residents of the Bay Area, we've been hit hard and have witnessed firsthand what has been going on. Public gatherings of more than 1000 have been banned in San Jose, and events in downtown San Francisco including major concerts and conferences have been shut down.
We have been watching the situation overseas on a daily basis, in contact with all promoters, and local governments for the status of our concert there. As of a week ago, we had 6 concert cancelled until the 2nd week of April, due the banning of public gathering over 1,000 people (or in some cases 100 people). Even at that point, we still held out hope that things would be contained, and that the public gathering ordinances would be lifted by the time our tour started.
As of today, we now have 14 shows cancelled until the 2nd week of April, with 7 cancelled indefinitely. And it appears as of an hour ago, another 3 have been cancelled.
15 minutes ago the World Health Organization just declared the Coronavirus a pandemic.
Of paramount importance to us is the health and safety of the Head Cases. We've worked hard with all our management, booking agents, and business associates to find other solutions or options, but the levels of risk to our audience and their communities is simply too high for our comfort level. In addition to that, we also have a unique group of extraordinarily passionate fans who travel from all over the continent to watch our shows. We are eternally humbled by the dedication and devotion of the Head Cases, however in this case, travel is something not recommended.
So it is with deep frustration and regret that we are forced to make this announcements. The Burn My Eyes 25th anniversary tour is to be postponed and shows rescheduled for a later date, hopefully in the Fall, but possibly later.
We look forward to our next concerts with you all, and the ability to publicly gather together and play raging heavy metal for you and vent all of our collective frustration, as a result of this insane moment in history, out in the circle pit.
Stay safe, stay calm, and be well friends."
Head Cases? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hoping the Malokarpatan gig will go ahead but it's looking less likely now.
I went to pick up hand sanitizer for work this morning and there was none. Bog roll being snapped up too. Good to see people are playing it cool while moving all their items into their bunkers :laugh:
Yeah, Tesco in Clonmel was stripped clean of bog roll yesterday, not a roll to be found anywhere. We'll die with clean rectums.
I'm less concerned about a potential bog roll shortage than a nappy drought tbh!
Me too. Didn't realise Pampers costed a shit more than the other brands.
Might have to pull out my student training from long ago and steal bog roll from work.
Yeah, toilet paper is impossible to find here either. What is more, many supermarkets are stripped almost bare. Tried to get the groceries online yesterday evening, not a hope.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 12, 2020, 08:58:51 AM
I'm less concerned about a potential bog roll shortage than a nappy drought tbh!
I can't believe you're not on the reusable nappies, you monster!
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 12, 2020, 10:38:39 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 12, 2020, 08:58:51 AM
I'm less concerned about a potential bog roll shortage than a nappy drought tbh!
I can't believe you're not on the reusable nappies, you monster!
Are you? How are they? (Might as well talk about something a bit lighter than pandemics for a bit.)
Since I'm not the stay at home one, I don't try to impose my hippy ideals for fear of getting a very used pampers to the face ;)
Annik is great for using them, I'm too lazy and just fire the Pampers on him but I'm going to start using the reusables. They are actually very easy to use.
In other news, looks like Ireland is on lockdown.
All schools and universities in Ireland to be closed for two weeks. That's Ireland's response with 43 confirmed cases and 1 death.
Here in France, where there are well over 2,000 confirmed cases and over 40 deaths, schools and universities remain open.
Chief Medical Officer says the National Public Health Emergency Team got new information last night from the National Virus Reference Lab with a significant increase in cases.
So I'm guessing this is the reason why they have decided upon all these new measures. Denmark of similar size to us did this last night with way more confirmed cases.
Quote from: Juggz on March 12, 2020, 07:21:02 AM
QuoteOf paramount importance to us is the health and safety of the Head Cases. We've worked hard with all our management, booking agents, and business associates to find other solutions or options, but the levels of risk to our audience and their communities is simply too high for our comfort level. In addition to that, we also have a unique group of extraordinarily passionate fans who travel from all over the continent to watch our shows. We are eternally humbled by the dedication and devotion of the Head Cases, however in this case, travel is something not recommended.
*snip*
vent all of our collective frustration, as a result of this insane moment in history, out in the circle pit.
Good to see the world come together to control the spread of Robb Flynn.
Head Cases? What a headtheball.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 12, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
All schools and universities in Ireland to be closed for two weeks. That's Ireland's response with 43 confirmed cases and 1 death.
Here in France, where there are well over 2,000 confirmed cases and over 40 deaths, schools and universities remain open.
They need to get the finger out. Ridiculous. Ireland's reaction is late but it's good they made the call. Maybe it's something to do with capacity? I don't think the Irish health system would do well under the strain, it's already pushed enough at the best of times. France possibly better prepared? No idea.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 12, 2020, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 12, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
All schools and universities in Ireland to be closed for two weeks. That's Ireland's response with 43 confirmed cases and 1 death.
Here in France, where there are well over 2,000 confirmed cases and over 40 deaths, schools and universities remain open.
They need to get the finger out. Ridiculous. Ireland's reaction is late but it's good they made the call. Maybe it's something to do with capacity? I don't think the Irish health system would do well under the strain, it's already pushed enough at the best of times.
My missus is an ICU nurse in one of the bigger Dublin hospitals, and they've been running at a critical staffing level since around last summer as it is. She reckons any sort of bigger breakout will absolutely cripple the place
French medical staff haven't been on strike and department directors quitting just for the laugh here over the last year. The public health service employees will tell you the hospitals here are fucked if we go Italy's way (which the country already is), but the minister for health is still spouting shite. Yesterday in an official communication the ministry for health said, "children aren't a fragile population, so don't be afraid about sending them to school." I can't figure out if they're treating the people like idiots or whether they themselves are just absolute fucking morons (if you didn't catch it, the point with closing the schools is to stem transmission from household to household, not to protect the kids themselves, who will be grand...which is also why they're potentially so "dangerous" in this epidemic).
The 'hysteria' is quickly rising, ive noticed in work and around. This shit was spread by people being stupid and will continue to be spread by people being stupid.
The selfishness of bulk buyers for bog roll etc is not surprising.. fuck everyone else.. I need 600 rolls of shitty!
I can see on the DME facebook page people just worried about seeing their favourite band etc... again this is just more of stupidity as far as I'm concerned. All that shit should be cancelled end of.
Stay at home and listen to the new machine head album and crush a few cans on your forehead if you are that eager to RAWK
On a lighter note
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/89141472_10221882197274089_5321690094376058880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=BLpo7C3b2rYAX_Qldi3&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=2ac203617b69681d1e3fd41718b30a3f&oe=5E9119D0)
Also it's a good thing Brexit isnt dominating the news anymore... although bit of a monkey's paw that one
Large and not-so large gigs in Cork all called off / postponed. Lankum, Stanton's Grave/Vomit and other gigs round the city from plugd and The Kino all pulled. Not a great time for the entertainment biz to be sure, but better to do this now than to have more of a balloon in cases of the lurgy.
Also all Leisureworld swimming pools shut down.
It's quite bizzarre walking through a supermarket and seeing all the bread/pasta and baked beans gone. Even more bizarre to see all the rice pudding cleared out too. Didn't think the Irish would be too into rice pudding!!
Was in Tesco today and despite all the regular pasta being cleared out, there was a stack of red lentil pasta left... so for probably the first and last time in my life, it all came up Milhouse as that's what I eat :laugh:
:laugh:
Off til the 30th March. Doesn't have much of a good buzz about it though. I suppose a beer couldn't hurt.
Macron finally announcing a lockdown effective from Monday until further notice. I called a halt to my experiments today so will be working from home starting from now.
Can you time your wanks from home?
I find Outlook calendar works very well in that regard
Could be a full lock down (stay indoors) here in Ireland in the next couple of days. Believable because we have absolutely no health care system worth talking about.
Mate of mine that's in the Irish army told me they are going on standby from Monday.
Quote from: mickO))) on March 12, 2020, 10:11:48 PM
Mate of mine that's in the Irish army told me they are going on standby from Monday.
I heard something along the same lines too. Maybe even before Monday.
Hello family, just a wee heads up, I know your probably reading it everywhere but just a little I'm extra information I got from a friend who's front line in Dublin, she's a doctor and the Infectious diseases consultant did a briefing to them today briefing on the 'major catastrophe plan', there's currently a hotel in Dublin with 30 cases that they haven't announced to the news yet, 13 cases confirmed yesterday and 35 on the way to Beaumont today. The virus is going to spread quickly (as it has else where in Europe) so although no need to panic, listen to the 'wash your hands' advice etc. They reckon that there's the potential for the uk to do a bit of a shut down as soon as next week and Ireland will follow suit. There's also a 2nd man about to die but they are keeping him on life support for now so as now to create mass panic. Advice is be smart, try keep from touching your face and stay clean.. 💪😊
The army are moving to status yellow on Monday, fairly big deal , hasn't done that since the troubles and foot &mouth I think . Everything non essential will be cancelled so like no ranges , no courses , no sports . Looks like there will be platoons basically confined to barracks on rotas so they don't get infected and can basically still maintain capabilities. Then we could be sent into prisons & hospitals too. It hasn't been announced nationally yet cause they don't want people panicking basically but it got out across the army yesterday so the director pulled us all in to tell us what was happening.
That's the Clayton Hotel as far as I know.
Fair play to Bono and the lads.
Bear in mind we're about two weeks (or more) behind the real picture. The UK government response is predictably piss-poor. Don't expect the land of 3000 Madrid fans in Liverpool ladt night and Chelenham to go on lockdown any time soon.
:-\ Getting married in 5 weeks
Quote from: Emphyrio on March 12, 2020, 10:53:36 PM
:-\ Getting married in 5 weeks
Or maybe not.... Gulp!
Indeed. Sher look..
The lasses on chaturbate are going to make a fortune over the next few weeks.
:laugh:
Quote from: Juggz on March 12, 2020, 10:57:48 PM
The lasses on chaturbate are going to make a fortune over the next few weeks.
:laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Juggz on March 12, 2020, 10:57:48 PM
The lasses on chaturbate are going to make a fortune over the next few weeks.
What is chaterbate....?
......
The militant female wing of Kleenex.
A quote from a manager in my work (who's an appalling piece of shit anyhow):"Its just a cold".He wasnt playing for laughs either.
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on March 13, 2020, 08:53:05 AM
Quote from: Juggz on March 12, 2020, 10:57:48 PM
The lasses on chaturbate are going to make a fortune over the next few weeks.
What is chaterbate....?
......
Take the first four letter and the last four letters....
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 13, 2020, 09:14:08 AM
The militant female wing of Kleenex.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I just want you all to know I only went there to ask for directions to get away from there...
Boozers and cafes here still doing decent trade. What's the story with pubs etc in Ireland at the moment, much the same? I'm only leaving the house because I have to go to the doctor about a hand injury and to be honest I'm in two minds about that even.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on March 13, 2020, 09:35:24 AM
A quote from a manager in my work (who's an appalling piece of shit anyhow):"Its just a cold".He wasnt playing for laughs either.
The world seems to be full of these pompous cunts. My brother saying his bosses are going on with the same bullshit.
With the rest of Ireland going into lockdown, my own office is still going. Outsourced tech support for one of the big fintechs. Their own internals are now working from home but heels are still being dragged here in terms of trying to get us access to do the same. Everything we do is on a locked down VPN, Chromeboxes jacked into it via ethernet cable etc. First world problems but it's definitely doing my nut in a bit, tempering being an overly sensitive, semi hypochondriac snowflake with being pragmatic with the available data and my own risk levels.
I do hope we get turfed out of here for a bit, although I think doing it now might be a bit premature. We're probably two weeks off the real peak. Especially when 20,000 empty wallets get back from Cheltenham. Buildings like this are a mass incubator waiting to happen, even with all the precautions we're taking. They need to make some difficult decisions.
Imagine the legal implications of being a pompous tosser. 2 or 3 people get sick in one workplace and you would surely see legal action. Putting employers at risk etc. Any work that can be done on a computer..well there's no excuse.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 13, 2020, 12:00:50 PM
Any work that can be done on a computer..well there's no excuse.
Precisely.
There's situations where you have to bite the bullet and let data protection take a back seat. A global pandemic being one of them.
Now gonna be doing 3/4 days a week from home til restrictions are lifted. So glad that geebag wasnt the one making the decision
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 12, 2020, 10:45:06 PM
Hello family, just a wee heads up, I know your probably reading it everywhere but just a little I'm extra information I got from a friend who's front line in Dublin, she's a doctor and the Infectious diseases consultant did a briefing to them today briefing on the 'major catastrophe plan', there's currently a hotel in Dublin with 30 cases that they haven't announced to the news yet, 13 cases confirmed yesterday and 35 on the way to Beaumont today. The virus is going to spread quickly (as it has else where in Europe) so although no need to panic, listen to the 'wash your hands' advice etc. They reckon that there's the potential for the uk to do a bit of a shut down as soon as next week and Ireland will follow suit. There's also a 2nd man about to die but they are keeping him on life support for now so as now to create mass panic. Advice is be smart, try keep from touching your face and stay clean.. 💪😊
The army are moving to status yellow on Monday, fairly big deal , hasn't done that since the troubles and foot &mouth I think . Everything non essential will be cancelled so like no ranges , no courses , no sports . Looks like there will be platoons basically confined to barracks on rotas so they don't get infected and can basically still maintain capabilities. Then we could be sent into prisons & hospitals too. It hasn't been announced nationally yet cause they don't want people panicking basically but it got out across the army yesterday so the director pulled us all in to tell us what was happening.
Source of this??
That post about Clayton Hotel has been going around for about 2 weeks now on WhatsApp/Boards along with terms like 'media blackout'...... No doubt there will be mass clusters but I wouldn't put any stock in these type of rumours
It's the new normal for now anyway the UK doesn't expect to reach it's peak until over three months for now and if Ireland is not back to full economic activity by midsummer we will be in a fully blown recession. We are considered two weeks behind Italy in terms of our outbreak so we will know how serious a medical crisis we have at that point.
Quote from: Born of Fire on March 13, 2020, 01:12:22 PM
That post about Clayton Hotel has been going around for about 2 weeks now on WhatsApp/Boards along with terms like 'media blackout'...... No doubt there will be mass clusters but I wouldn't put any stock in these type of rumours
Neither would I however the chief executive of the HSE has publicly stated that there have been negotiations with hotels and "significant offers" I think the use Garda training buildings has also been proposed. It's actually be week point for us like the the shortage of ICU.
The Clayton rumour is bullshit. My sister works for the group and they've been trying to clear it up since it came up to no avail. The group is already taking a big hit - €1m loss last week alone - due to cancellations in accomodation & events, and are discussing redundancies for large amounts of staff. That's a situation that's only going to spread.
Which reminds me, I need to cancel my booking for the Blade Runner show.
Was talking to a friend of mine who owns a restaurant. They're not in a position to take such a massive hit so unexpectedly. Poor thing is at her wits end.
Lad I work with, him and his misses have a cafe. If they have to shut down for a week they'll pretty much lose the business
I've been keeping an eye on this site since Monday evening.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
A lot of the northern European countries like Sweden, Denmark etc, had very low amounts in single figures on Monday evening, but they doubled nearly everyday since. They are all up on 700+ cases now I expect Ireland to follow in the same pattern.
Oh I'd say we're there already.
There is a state of emergency here in Spain, everything to be closed bar supermarkets and pharmacies. My boss e-mailed me to stay away from the place 'until further notice'.
I'm selfishly moping about my 10 day hike in Scotland from April 2 which is now almost certainly not going to happen.
Crawling up Croagh Patrick on our knees in penitence and begging for Jaysus to take away this pestilence is what we should be doing, not hiking around heathen protestant Scotland!
The penny pinching Calvinist who took my booking (and 1200€) for my accommodation and baggage transfer has been absolutely silent since I broached the subject of getting my money back or postponing...
Irish Defense Force to be on yellow alert from Monday which is basically the entire force not including those abroad mobilised there's also a possible use of military structures for quartine.
Quote from: Airneanach on March 13, 2020, 11:18:40 AM
With the rest of Ireland going into lockdown, my own office is still going. Outsourced tech support for one of the big fintechs. Their own internals are now working from home but heels are still being dragged here in terms of trying to get us access to do the same. Everything we do is on a locked down VPN, Chromeboxes jacked into it via ethernet cable etc. First world problems but it's definitely doing my nut in a bit, tempering being an overly sensitive, semi hypochondriac snowflake with being pragmatic with the available data and my own risk levels.
I do hope we get turfed out of here for a bit, although I think doing it now might be a bit premature. We're probably two weeks off the real peak. Especially when 20,000 empty wallets get back from Cheltenham. Buildings like this are a mass incubator waiting to happen, even with all the precautions we're taking. They need to make some difficult decisions.
In a similar position and tbh it's a bit of a joke. Don't feel like any proper solution is being offered.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 13, 2020, 03:51:57 PM
There is a state of emergency here in Spain, everything to be closed bar supermarkets and pharmacies. My boss e-mailed me to stay away from the place 'until further notice'.
I'm selfishly moping about my 10 day hike in Scotland from April 2 which is now almost certainly not going to happen.
Any idea if that extends to Lanzarote? One of the lads is supposed to be traveling there next week and he's adamant the only thing stop that will stop him is a complete travel ban...
Another 250 deaths in Italy today and 2,600 new cases :(
It's the whole country according to the bird, the principal problem he'll have is that every day more countries are banning travel from Spain. It's 60 at the moment.
Just got a WhatsApp from one of my friends there. If its true the country will be on lockdown on monday.
Could be bullshit but highly likely I'd say.
What could be bullshit? Which country? Spain declared a national state of emergency today, no BS about that!
Looks like business as usual for me next week unless we hear otherwise in the meantime, but I work outdoors so that might have something to do with it.
Supermarkets and pharmacies are open, nothing else. Still every stubborn auld bastard in the neighbourhood walking around though.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 13, 2020, 06:53:59 PM
What could be bullshit? Which country? Spain declared a national state of emergency today, no BS about that!
Ireland.
Guess it could be true so. My whole next two weeks worth of work has cancelled on me so I'm actually worried about that. I hope if there is a lockdown they have some safety net in place for people.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 13, 2020, 05:52:05 PM
It's the whole country according to the bird, the principal problem he'll have is that every day more countries are banning travel from Spain. It's 60 at the moment.
Yeah that makes sense. Sure I said to the lad all well and good to head off and then get yourself quarantined.
Was due to go away today up to northern Spain near the border of Portugal. Owner of the hotel called and said we'd be better off not going because we might find it hard to get back into Madrid province on Sunday. Every other guest had cancelled. For a country like Spain (which relies so much on tourism and whose economy will take a massive hit) to put these measures into place is really saying something. Went out for a run there this evening. Most bars and restaurants closed. People are around mainly doing a bit of exercise but generally the streets are quiet.
The hype is real. I've had quite a few people telling me about relatives or friends who have been hit with the virus and it's not a pretty picture. The hospitals are working round the clock. So, do yourselves a favour and don't go down the blasé route with it all, especially if you have kids or elderly parents. I know they're saying kids aren't affected but until they come up with a cure for this fucker, I'd be as vigilant as possible. If your boss is being a cunt, maybe it's time to pull out the 'sick voice' and let him go fuck. Settle in, get some canned beans and pull the stomach out of yourself/watch netflix/do some pressups.
More or less lost my job today, as there's nothing happening and there'll be less on with all of this, and the probable lockdown on Monday. Might get a few cash hours a week but as it is, it's into the dole office on Monday.
'Pull the stomach out of yourself' 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Any of ye who know this man will know that he talks exactly like this in the flesh!
Quote from: Pedrito on March 13, 2020, 07:53:44 PM
I know they're saying kids aren't affected but until they come up with a cure for this fucker, I'd be as vigilant as possible. If your boss is being a cunt, maybe it's time to pull out the 'sick voice' and let him go fuck. Settle in, get some canned beans and pull the stomach out of yourself/watch netflix/do some pressups.
A baby tested positive for it on Tuesday not too far from where I live.
Quote from: Carnage on March 13, 2020, 08:13:37 PM
More or less lost my job today, as there's nothing happening and there'll be less on with all of this, and the probable lockdown on Monday. Might get a few cash hours a week but as it is, it's into the dole office on Monday.
Sorry to hear that what do you work as?
Have a felling if things get much worse ill lose my job as well my company already sent an email around today talking about finances and how we need to be vigilant with chargeable hours which is not a good sign. The dole won't even cover my rent if I lose my job.
Jees sorry to hear about anyone losing their jobs over this..I sincerely hope things work out ok for you all...
UK policy, inspired by Killing Joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPN7EvbrCp0
Quote from: mickO))) on March 13, 2020, 08:50:20 PM
Sorry to hear that what do you work as?
Cheers. I work with a lad who makes saddles. No interest in that at all, and I do very little in that regard as it's a highly skilled job, but I do more behind the scenes stuff, plus some online stuff and I think I was the shop manager (it's quite informal). Hopefully we'll come out the other side alright, bit tough for a while but there's talk of letting the company go bust and starting a new one, to write off mounting debts.
I'm well aware that plenty of people are having a harder time of it because of all this, at least I have the mortgage paid and no kids to support.
I heard an interesting one last night. A girl I know was speaking with a lab tech who said said that the first case of the virus in Ireland was back in Oct. And all those really bad cases of the flu people have been getting since that period was the coronavirus, they just didn't have a name for it until it became a much bigger thing.
I wouldn't doubt that at all, that dose I had before xmas must have been 6 or 7 weeks long and nothing would shift it, worst respiratory problems I ever experienced.
I had it about 5 weeks ago, i couldn't leave the house if I wanted to for a full week. Have had 'mild' broncituis since. On meds to get rid of it now thankfully
My brother is a nurse in Scotland. They've had to cable tie the hand sanitizers to beds etc cause they keep getting knicked
Quote from: Aborted on March 14, 2020, 05:23:58 AM
I heard an interesting one last night. A girl I know was speaking with a lab tech who said said that the first case of the virus in Ireland was back in Oct. And all those really bad cases of the flu people have been getting since that period was the coronavirus, they just didn't have a name for it until it became a much bigger thing.
A theory that's been going around for a while now, I'd well believe it if not for the sudden explosion of cases currently.
I just popped down to the shop to grab brekkie stuff expecting to drive through a ghost town and end up fighting someone for a loaf of bread. Thankfully it seems completely normal. The shop was well stocked, there was a normal amount of non- hysterical people buying ordinary quantities of stuff and there were even people out and about walking in the pleasant spring sunshine. This is all probably anathema to some people but the lack of hysteria works for me.
Prudence is the way to go. Heading out for a walk to the park ourselves now.
I find it strange that once the locking down started, everybody started going to the shops in massive numbers, worse than christmas eve. Is that not the best possible way to spread it even quicker? I work in a pharmacy, and the place was packed to the rafters the last few days with people pushing against each other buying up everything they could get their hands on and yesterday with the schools closed, the place was riddled with kids which also sort of seems to defeat the purpose of closing the schools in the first place.
Like even if people don't take the risk of this seriously, do they not want to at least play ball and try have this quarantine situation lifted as soon as possible?
Also, and this has surely been said a lot, but much more worrying than any other element of this virus is the mass hysteria associated with it. Can you imagine something with say a 50% death rate getting out? it would be worse than any disaster movie.
And lastly, back in 2008 when the banking sector began to collapse, the people were forced to bail them out. What are the chances of the banking sector helping or being forced to bail the people out this time?
Nobody should be panicking. I'm relaxing here reading a book. But, for once I'm prepared to listen to the scientists. Spain's Coronavirus cases have increased 10 fold since Sunday. 1500 new cases overnight. A video is going round of bars in Benidorm, in the middle of the day with thousands of people stuffed into bars. All English and Irish taking the blasé approach while the locals are trying to follow guidelines, their kids aee at home, not congreagating etc etc. We take the prudent approach or we simply say it's all an elaborate hoax..are we seriously saying that? Whole countries shut down, sporting events, the economy in nosedive..these things aren't done without some thought put into them.
I'm stuck at home with four kids and I'm trying to keep us isolated here but everywhere I look, people are acting as if it is an early easter holiday with extra shopping, and the pubs are still doing well from what I hear. If I do go out, I'll be going for a spot of hillwalking or some other non-contact activity, but even at that trying to get used to the prospect of not going out except for work. It also shows the sheer selfishness/stupidity of people with the attitude of "Sure if I get it, I'll be grand" and not taking into account all of the people who won't be grand. Same with all the knobs who went to Cheltenham.
I've never craved normality as I do right now, and this is only the beginning.
Precisely. A bit of common sense and calm. I'm cooking, reading and watching films to pass the time and when the grub is running low, we'll drive out to the supermarket, in and out ASAP and back home. Wash the paws and wait it out.
Amazingly the day of the bar ban I saw a group of about 15 people outside the pub on the corner outside, drinking and having the craic. Hard to understand being that blasé about it.
The worst thing is when the shit hits the fan for one of these people (whether themselves or a loved one) they'll take their story to The Mirror or Daily Mail and have a moan about how about how they were just living their best life and no one sat them down and made a crayon drawing for them explaining what to do.
Personally I have some nice grub in, a few beers, a book, a game and a few albums lined up. Sound weekend in my view.
Yeah I'm approaching it in much the same way as yourself. Got the last book of ASOIAF to take into, having blazed through the rest in record time, and a recently-found appreciation for Peter Gabriel to keep me interested. Not a bad line up at all.
I honestly believe that if everybody calms down a little (some a lot!) we will get through this situation a lot more quickly. I came on here today having been off forums in general for a while, as I find a lot of the discussion to be at the more rational end of the scale and I needed to get away from the hype because it was wrecking my head. A self imposed ban on the constant updates has eased my mind a lot, too as well as the day out of work.
Imagine how spooked we would all be if we were updated every time somebody was very ill with the winter flu, and had a running tally rammed down our throats constantly on every media source. I know this is different and more serious, but I'm attempting to take the rational approach to what I feed my mind with.
A lovely few posts to read, chaps.
As a semi hypochondriac, overly empathic little snowflake with years and years of generalised anxiety issues, this has been doing my nut in despite the relatively non existent physical threat such a virus poses to my twenty nine year old bag of bones. I've been going around as a vociferous enough part of the "This will all blow over in a few weeks and we'll be laughing" brigade more to convince myself than anyone else, so it's been a tough bit of realisation for me over the past few days that we're living in a changed world of the sort that's going to be a little tougher and a little darker for a wee bit.
It's ultimately better now, though, that a clearer image is emerging of where we're all likely to stand with this thing until at least the summer. I'm thankful for how connected we all are, and appreciative more than ever of the kind of escapism you can get through music, books, entertainment.
Until the grid goes down, of course, at which point the books are subject to being kindle. Might start with the Rain Wild Chronicles. I'm on the last book in the Realm of the Elderlings series, but those dragon ones can get to fuck. Had to skip them.
But no, it's class reading all the more pragmatic, cozy posts about how we're all going to spend this period. This is proper surreal.
Just saw a story on the BBC website that Arlene foster saying that if schools close it will be for 16 weeks. If that does happen I imagine that will include nurseries.
That would fuck a lot of people up, myself included. Also would that mean all exams are off? Nobody goes to university this year?
Sorry to bring it back to doom and gloom again.
The UK approach as a whole seems quite radical. The current idea seems to be a fairly benign approach to social isolation, let the virus get on with things but stretch out the peak period into summer so as to take the burden off the NHS a bit.
If you want to get a bit more tin foil hat, and I'm not even sure it's that crazy to suggest, it looks like they're going for a herd immunity scenario. Which would lead to far more fatalities in the short term, I'd imagine.
I know flights to London are like taxis for some people, but we'd seriously want to consider a travel ban for anything other than supply chains to and from the UK. Ireland's response to this is drastically different and their own policies would seem to contravene ours. We're going more and more for total self isolation in order to limit the number of up and about vectors, so as to protect our sick and elderly.
And that's without getting into the trouble with the north.
The UK seems willing to make a gamble with the whole thing on what is basically a future prediction that is something that may possibly happen. As far I understand it herd immunity only works with a vaccine a society as a whole is protected only because of a immune majority. I think there are more than a few eyebrows being raised over the UK approach even if it is understandable that they don't want to shut things down for what could be a long period. Still it took the Welsh Rugby authority to cancel the match this weekend the government would have let it go ahead.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 14, 2020, 01:27:46 PM
people pushing against each other buying up everything they could get their hands on and yesterday with the schools closed, the place was riddled with kids which also sort of seems to defeat the purpose of closing the schools in the first place.
I agree that people are overacting over this I saw two old women fighting over a pack of toilet roll a few hours ago that was on sale and the price of toilet paper here has almost tripled in the last week the dirty cunts taking advantage of the situation. I think it's the fact that each day something unexpected is happening and people are panicking because of that. With the way things are going who knows what way things will even be by this time next weekend it could be 100 times worse. I also suspect as I would say a lot of others do that things are even currently much worse then what we are being told but they are holding back info to keep people from panicking even more.
Governments all over the world are to blame for the extremely slow response to this who knows maybe it was even on purpose. Canada has literally done nothing so far except give bullshit advisories that nobody heeds and suspend parliament so Trudeau and has buddies get to stay in the safety of their own homes with full pay while rest of us are still forced to commute to work on overcrowded buses and subways. It's going to blow up here any day and when you have a mentally unstable man child charge who has run for the hills at the first sight of trouble it doesn't' fill me with a lot of confidence.
France is holding elections tomorrow. As in, hasn't cancelled them. Mooks.
Complete shower of LEGENDS going out for 'fuck the coronavirus' pints
SHUR THERES NO QUEUE AT THE BAR LADS
#livintheirbestlives
I'll be honest I don't know a lot of the Canadian situation, but I am very sure this is a lot more widespread already than people would like to believe, as there are a high number of carriers who display little to no symptoms, and thus won't be tested. On a lighter note, every time I try think of us all staying indoors voluntarily I'm reminded of Renton barring himself in with all his supplies before crumbling 2 minutes later.
I also think that due to the large number of undetected cases, that the mortality rate of this is a lot lower than the reported figures would have us believe. And I don't mean by saying that, that we should be in any way reckless about it at all as regardless of the mortality rate being lower or not for most, it isn't any lower for the high risk groups and it doesn't mean our already struggling, underfunded and mismanaged health service has any chance of coping with it. We can see this already with seasonal flu and this will really exacerbate the problem.
We are certainly in uncharted territory with the situation. I was doing a bit of checking on Snopes and I saw it also described as an Infodemic of misinformation, which it is, and that is a lot to do with a lot of the panic, I would think. The toilet paper situation is particularly indicative of the herd mentality as well and that is only one example of the sort of shit going round.
Quote from: Airneanach on March 14, 2020, 05:43:53 PM
The UK approach as a whole seems quite radical. The current idea seems to be a fairly benign approach to social isolation, let the virus get on with things but stretch out the peak period into summer so as to take the burden off the NHS a bit.
If you want to get a bit more tin foil hat, and I'm not even sure it's that crazy to suggest, it looks like they're going for a herd immunity scenario. Which would lead to far more fatalities in the short term, I'd imagine.
It is simply astonishing that the UK government is going in for the herd immunity idea when there is NO CURRENT VACCINE for covid-19. If the idea is to take the burden off the NHS then this will do exactly the opposite.
https://twitter.com/markwby/status/1238867143363567616?s=19
Share this to try keep people out of pubs, etc.
Quote from: Aborted on March 14, 2020, 05:23:58 AM
I heard an interesting one last night. A girl I know was speaking with a lab tech who said said that the first case of the virus in Ireland was back in Oct. And all those really bad cases of the flu people have been getting since that period was the coronavirus, they just didn't have a name for it until it became a much bigger thing.
This has been tipping about as a rumour for a while, and I've chatted to a few people about it. Can't tell if it's real, but I will say I had the worst flu I've ever had in my life there just after Christmas. I was completely fucked from it. So were a lot of people I know, one of which was told by their GP that it was a form of swine flu that their regular flu shots wouldn't cover. There's other odd things that make it seem like this already did a short round here in December - the amount of people with it, the earlier dates for infection in China being October now, similar situations in pockets of West coast US before Christmas, the lad in ICU in Cork who got it without anyone knowing how - but too much weighing against it too. It wasn't deemed so contagious it was worth isolating over, symptoms aren't exact, a huge amount of this is anecdotal and in hindsight. So unless someone genuinely comes out and says it I'm unconvinced.
Quote from: ochoill on March 15, 2020, 02:20:08 AM
Quote from: Aborted on March 14, 2020, 05:23:58 AM
I heard an interesting one last night. A girl I know was speaking with a lab tech who said said that the first case of the virus in Ireland was back in Oct. And all those really bad cases of the flu people have been getting since that period was the coronavirus, they just didn't have a name for it until it became a much bigger thing.
This has been tipping about as a rumour for a while, and I've chatted to a few people about it. Can't tell if it's real, but I will say I had the worst flu I've ever had in my life there just after Christmas. I was completely fucked from it. So were a lot of people I know, one of which was told by their GP that it was a form of swine flu that their regular flu shots wouldn't cover. There's other odd things that make it seem like this already did a short round here in December - the amount of people with it, the earlier dates for infection in China being October now, similar situations in pockets of West coast US before Christmas, the lad in ICU in Cork who got it without anyone knowing how - but too much weighing against it too. It wasn't deemed so contagious it was worth isolating over, symptoms aren't exact, a huge amount of this is anecdotal and in hindsight. So unless someone genuinely comes out and says it I'm unconvinced.
Ah yeah, you can never be certain and even if it was the case I doubt they would come out and say it as then people would turn and blame whoever wsa invloved for everything that's gone in. ie "you could have prevented me acting like a complete fucking mong buying 1700 rolls of bog roll and conintue to go out to the pub and licking door handles"
I had it around 7 weeks ago and the same thing.. absolutley fucked for around 7 days and still trying to get rid of a mild broncitius type issue from it.
I feel genuinely sorry for those financially affected by all this scaremongering.
The government have to be seen to do something to alleviate stress on the health system by appealing for calm and common sense but sadly people will invariably act like sheep and panic will prevail regardless.
I'm sick of people talking about nothing else. You should be as worried as you feel you need to be but be rational.
It feels however to be more than just a randomly occurring natural pandemic. There is a lot to be said for believing the possibility of the virus being a manmade phenomenon, an effort to literally cull the herd, so to speak.
How do you reckon it isn't a randomly occurring, natural phenomenon?
Coronaviruses already exist and it's not like events like the Spanish Flu or Bubonic Plague didn't happen in the past.
I'm certainly not disagreeing with you.
Just saying that it feels MORE than just that.
Do you feel it was only supposed to have an effect in China and they didn't anticipate it spreading, or was it meant to spread and hit the west like it has?
Quote from: Ducky on March 15, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Do you feel it was only supposed to have an effect in China and they didn't anticipate it spreading, or was it meant to spread and hit the west like it has?
Fuck knows
Quote from: Pagan Waltar on March 15, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
It feels however to be more than just a randomly occurring natural pandemic. There is a lot to be said for believing the possibility of the virus being a manmade phenomenon, an effort to literally cull the herd, so to speak.
Bill the lowlife Gates gave a speech about 3 years ago saying something like this was going to happen. He is a proud proponent of depopulation so if you are into conspiracy theories definitely something in that and also the defiance of Government's around to do anything about this even still today comes across as a lot more than incompetence. I saw the speech Gates made back when it came out and when this started getting bad in December it's the first thing I thought of.
Other rumours going around that it was released to stop the protesting in Hong Kong.
Who knows we will never get the full story. All we really know is those responsible will never be held accountable for the damage this had and will cause. `
The expert on Joe Rogan at the beginning of the week dismissed it being a man made virus and did say it was caused by Bats Blood as was originally suspected. Why someone feels the need to eat a bat I will never know.
And to think yiz whine about vegans :abbath:
I read vegans as vaginas. A slightly different complaint.
At least they can treat crabs
It just seems conveniently timed is all. At a time where, on an infantile level, the world seems completely fucked, ie. Trump, Boris and Kim Jong Un being world leaders, endless war in the Middle East, already over populated countries accepting refugees from war torn places and high level homelessness and unemployment everywhere.
I'm not disputing the evidence being put forward, so long as it's true but how would you know?
I don't remember being too bothered at the time about Asian Bird Flu, Swine Fever or Mad Cow Disease (as I am not a farmer). This virus and subsequent pandemic has the media and social media placing people into a frenzy with statistics and over information, giving us measures which anyone with any common sense would practice anyway.
Maybe it's an effort to somehow bring people together as now we all have a common enemy, irrespective of race or religion, with the added bonus of possible depopulation.
Again, think what you want to think and be as worried as you feel you need to be.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Malthusian Theory so far!
"anyone with any common sense" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Hopefully, at the end of all this shite, people realise that what affects one of us affects all of us, we drop these stupid notions of nationality, religion, political alignment, racism and the other petty bullshit and see ourselves as humans first and collectively stride towards the clearly achievable utopia which awaits us if we drop greed and starting working together as one species.
Or, we sell bog roll and hand sanitiser on ebay for filthy profit.
Juggz aka "The BogRoll KingPin" :abbath:
Like Brexit, the UK approach to matters is intriguing. They've either seen something no-one else has seen and are sitting pretty or they have got it spectacularly and heinously wrong. Only time will tell. I understand the principle of what they're trying to do but what I don't get is how they expect to manage the spread of a virus we're about two weeks behind the spread of. Having had 3000 Madrid fans in the bars and clubs of Liverpool last Wednesday and 60000 gobshites milling around Cheltenham all week, it feels as if they're giving the virus every opportunity to spread like fuck with the view of enough people getting it to create some sort of "herd immunity", as they put it.
That's grand, in principle, but how do they manage the spread of something when they're two weeks behind knowing the actual situation. I just don't get it.
The cases for and against... though whenever they mention the "spirit of the blitz" it seems to be a code for they haven't got a fucking clue.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
https://www.immunology.org/news/bsi-open-letter-government-sars-cov-2-outbreak-response
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/preliminary-study-suggests-there-may-be-two-strains-of-the-new-coronavirus/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51895873
Quote from: Aborted on March 15, 2020, 09:26:29 PM
Juggz aka "The BogRoll KingPin" :abbath:
You buyin'? :laugh:
Quote from: Juggz on March 15, 2020, 09:39:16 PM
Like Brexit, the UK approach to matters is intriguing. They've either seen something no-one else has seen and are sitting pretty or they have got it spectacularly and heinously wrong. Only time will tell. I understand the principle of what they're trying to do but what I don't get is how they expect to manage the spread of a virus we're about two weeks behind the spread of. Having had 3000 Madrid fans in the bars and clubs of Liverpool last Wednesday and 60000 gobshites milling around Cheltenham all week, it feels as if they're giving the virus every opportunity to spread like fuck with the view of enough people getting it to create some sort of "herd immunity", as they put it.
That's grand, in principle, but how do they manage the spread of something when they're two weeks behind knowing the actual situation. I just don't get it.
The cases for and against... though whenever they mention the "spirit of the blitz" it seems to be a code for they haven't got a fucking clue.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
https://www.immunology.org/news/bsi-open-letter-government-sars-cov-2-outbreak-response
https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/preliminary-study-suggests-there-may-be-two-strains-of-the-new-coronavirus/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51895873
It's a unusual one. This spirit of the blitz bollox basically means that you suck up the deaths and get on with it. Is that good enough? I know we've become desensitized to so many things but human life needs to have a value and we should do all we can to protect it IMO, and yes, despite the world being full of mongos. The minute we all accept there's gobshites out there and maybe that we're that same gobshite to someone else, the easier life will become for all of us.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 15, 2020, 09:48:03 PMI know we've become desensitized to so many things but human life needs to have a value and we should do all we can to protect it IMO, and yes, despite the world being full of mongos. The minute we all accept there's gobshites out there and maybe that we're that same gobshite to someone else, the easier life will become for all of us.
That's exactly it. That's why I don't understand their approach. Herd immunity usually includes a viable and real vaccine. There is no such thing. There is no proof having this once immunises you from having it again. It makes no fucking sense other than lots of old and vulnerable people die to ease the burden on the NHS and their pension funds. Are we at that point?
To go against what the rest of the world appears to be doing, namely trying to contain the virus and minimise the initial spread... it surely just means there'll be travel restrictions on everyone coming out of Britain for the next year or two? They want 60% of the population to have this? How long will that take? If you're a country who have made efforts to contain the spread of this, you're not going to let some infected Tommy come in and reintroduce that which you have shut the entire country down to contain?
There's already been relapses noted, so g'luck to them with that plan.
Quote from: Pagan Waltar on March 15, 2020, 09:17:55 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Malthusian Theory so far!
Reply #173 ;)
I think one of the things that the UK is aiming for is a summer peak in CV cases they believe it will be easier to manage in the summer time as winter is always worse for similar types of disease. They are also anticipating a rebound or second wave in the winter so plan to get the worst over with in the summer. They are also probably questioning the effect of social distancing etc. Or even if people would follow those rules despite it working in parts of Asia and elsewhere or the danger of a sudden spike.
It's a bit mad really and to some extent based on behavioural science predictions. Singapore have already introduced new travel rules for the UK along with Switzerland and Japan and Singapore have made one of the best managements of the outbreak. It's certainly possible the UK could have further travel restrictions if a problem develops.
Yeah, I just don't see how they manage something they're giving a massive head start.
Good old Arlene following the guidelines set by Westminster despite living on a separate island that is using a different approach entirely. When does the ideology stop and the concern for people begin with that eejit?
Is the real news story here the oncoming recession that has been spoken about? Getting constant updates about numbers of corona virus victims and which MP has tested positive today and how many pubs and restaurants have closed their doors... Is it a big distraction from another fuck up that's about to bury us?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 16, 2020, 07:10:40 AM
Good old Arlene following the guidelines set by Westminster despite living on a separate island that is using a different approach entirely. When does the ideology stop and the concern for people begin with that eejit?
Give it a couple of weeks and it'll be Paddy erecting hard borders and checkpoints, disrespecting the GFA. It's a wet dream for Arlene.
Well we should be looking after the Republic right now and monitoring what border there is. Noone should be coming in from Northern Ireland if that's the attitude they're going to take. Diplomacy and the hand of friendship has been extended so many times now but you can't dialogue with a thick.
There are a staggering number of border crossings - policing all of them isn't really practical.
Stormont have neither the political will nor the funding to tackle something like this. They could shut the schools down, but then that involves shutting down the pre-school childcare - for which parents will still have to pay, but you've just removed their ability to work and hence, likely, get paid. Stormont doesn't have the funding to cover sick pay or pay in lieu for a situation like that and Boris has made it very clear with his actions over the last few months that he'll leave them to swing in the wind.
Neither O'Neill or Foster are exactly covering themselves in glory here.
No they aren't and it's not like the Republic is much better tbh. Temple Bar booming, I know of people leaving for holidays in Spain up until a couple of days ago. Maybe we needed this kick in the hole to start maturing and make tough decisions again. If anything, this outbreak should highlight the need for far tighter(reasonable) restrictions in terms of movement of people. It's not nationalities or race or colour, it's the actions of the few from every part of the world, people who just don't give a fuck if everyone else dropped dead as long as they get to do what they want and we keep giving into their childish behaviour. I love my freedoms and we need to safeguard them. Having to be locked in your home is not freedom.
Temple Bar has already been closed down though, I thought. Ireland is still well ahead of the curve of Spain, France, Germany, etc. France only shut bars down last night at midnight. Videos in Paris of crowds on the street doing a countdown to it and revelling about. Incroyable!
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 16, 2020, 08:50:30 AM
Is the real news story here the oncoming recession that has been spoken about? Getting constant updates about numbers of corona virus victims and which MP has tested positive today and how many pubs and restaurants have closed their doors... Is it a big distraction from another fuck up that's about to bury us?
I think the fuck up is the virus. Can you imagine what tax increases are going to come in to try and manage the ampunt of people out of employment by the end of all this? Hotel sector, pus and restaurants, hostels etc etc. I think we're only at the start of something, which may explain why the UK are taking a different approach.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 16, 2020, 11:43:26 AM
Temple Bar has already been closed down though, I thought. Ireland is still well ahead of the curve of Spain, France, Germany, etc. France only shut bars down last night at midnight. Videos in Paris of crowds on the street doing a countdown to it and revelling about. Incroyable!
Yes it's shut down but the scenes from the weekend were beyond a joke. As for the French, do they have that anti-system thing running through their society that is prevalent in certain parts of Spanish society? The man out to get them all the time..poor things.
Seems it's been said that they are shutting down people travelling in an out of the country as of Thurday? Never sure whats real at this point.
I'm wondering if this will effect public transport. I'm heading on the train to Dublin to view 3 apartments as im meant to be moving up in the next 2 weeks. Wondering how that will work out!
Quote from: Pedrito on March 16, 2020, 11:44:25 AM
Can you imagine what tax increases are going to come in to try and manage the ampunt of people out of employment by the end of all this? Hotel sector, pus and restaurants, hostels etc etc. I think we're only at the start of something, which may explain why the UK are taking a different approach.
The country that this originated from should be forced to pay through the nose to all those effected but that will never happen they will go to war before they do that and it will all be forgotten about until they decide to unleash the next deadly virus onto the rest of the world. The fact that a country can get away with this with absolutely no repercussions is just crazy. Just saw on RTE this morning 140,000 people have already lost their jobs and the country isn't even on lock down yet.
Quote from: Aborted on March 16, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
Seems it's been said that they are shutting down people travelling in an out of the country as of Thurday? Never sure whats real at this point.
I'm wondering if this will effect public transport. I'm heading on the train to Dublin to view 3 apartments as im meant to be moving up in the next 2 weeks. Wondering how that will work out!
In Italy as far as I know you are allowed out in public if you have a good excuse like you are going to get food etc. otherwise you get arrested.
Luckily it's not that extreme here. Went out for a nice ramble this morning and despite cafes, pubs and restaurants all being closed, people were out and about. I think a bit of fresh air is probably a good thing, just maybe don't meet up in groups or just lie low for two or three weeks.
I can't help but fear another recession as the last one was catastrophic. Kind of a catch 22 scenario going on with the need to temporarily close businesses to contain the spread but two or three weeks of unemployment might see more people losing their homes and ending up in the seemingly endless nightmare of emergency accommodation.
Which is the worst case scenario? I don't know the answer but either way it looks grim.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 16, 2020, 01:52:39 PM
Luckily it's not that extreme here. Went out for a nice ramble this morning and despite cafes, pubs and restaurants all being closed, people were out and about. I think a bit of fresh air is probably a good thing, just maybe don't meet up in groups or just lie low for two or three weeks.
I can't help but fear another recession as the last one was catastrophic. Kind of a catch 22 scenario going on with the need to temporarily close businesses to contain the spread but two or three weeks of unemployment might see more people losing their homes and ending up in the seemingly endless nightmare of emergency accommodation.
Which is the worst case scenario? I don't know the answer but either way it looks grim.
There has to be some sort of freeze put on mortgages rent etc.
I've already lost loads of work and I'm going back on the dole tomorrow.
Quote from: mickO))) on March 16, 2020, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 16, 2020, 11:44:25 AM
Can you imagine what tax increases are going to come in to try and manage the ampunt of people out of employment by the end of all this? Hotel sector, pus and restaurants, hostels etc etc. I think we're only at the start of something, which may explain why the UK are taking a different approach.
The country that this originated from should be forced to pay through the nose to all those effected but that will never happen they will go to war before they do that and it will all be forgotten about until they decide to unleash the next deadly virus onto the rest of the world. The fact that a country can get away with this with absolutely no repercussions is just crazy. Just saw on RTE this morning 140,000 people have already lost their jobs and the country isn't even on lock down yet.
So if a virus originates in your country, you have to pay for the consequences? Would you retro enforce this amazing tabloid rule??
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 16, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on March 16, 2020, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 16, 2020, 11:44:25 AM
Can you imagine what tax increases are going to come in to try and manage the ampunt of people out of employment by the end of all this? Hotel sector, pus and restaurants, hostels etc etc. I think we're only at the start of something, which may explain why the UK are taking a different approach.
The country that this originated from should be forced to pay through the nose to all those effected but that will never happen they will go to war before they do that and it will all be forgotten about until they decide to unleash the next deadly virus onto the rest of the world. The fact that a country can get away with this with absolutely no repercussions is just crazy. Just saw on RTE this morning 140,000 people have already lost their jobs and the country isn't even on lock down yet.
So if a virus originates in your country, you have to pay for the consequences? Would you retro enforce this amazing tabloid rule??
When the country did very little to contain it until it was too late and it's not the first time a major virus came from this place either and won't be the last so yes. Or how many more events like this do you think should happen before someone accepts responsibility? After this is all over the food markets in China will continue to operate exactly the same as before.
If this originated in some other country and hit China hard do you really think they wouldn't be demanding someone pay for the consequences? They are already demanding apologies from the west because they feel they handled the virus very well.
Come on there is a time for political correctness but now is the time to be realistic.
https://www.facebook.com/GAACraic/videos/1858020174333291/UzpfSTUwMTE4MTg4NToxMDE1NzE4NjkyNTY3Njg4Ng/ (https://www.facebook.com/GAACraic/videos/1858020174333291/UzpfSTUwMTE4MTg4NToxMDE1NzE4NjkyNTY3Njg4Ng/)
I think it's widely accepted that Europe's response has been far more irresponsible, delayed, soft and ineffective than China's. Just look at the number of cases per million habitants between China and other countries. Faced with the total unknown, they did respond better than Europe has responded with all that warning.
We'll see whether they change their habits based on this though. They have said they will, but there's no sure way of preventing new viral infections, only more or less effective ways of responding to them when they hit. Taking them seriously. Europe, for the most part, hasn't taken this seriously until too late, despite all the time to observe its effects in other countries. Again I repeat, France held public elections yesterday. Public. Elections. I mean, only fucking France should have to pay for the consequences of that! Plenty of examples from other individual nations too.
Everywhere in Sligo town is effectively shut, but sure fuck it the nail bar is still open... worse still, they're full of huns in getting them done.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 16, 2020, 03:34:12 PM
I think it's widely accepted that Europe's response has been far more irresponsible, delayed, soft and ineffective than China's. Just look at the number of cases per million habitants between China and other countries. Faced with the total unknown, they did respond better than Europe has responded with all that warning.
We'll see whether they change their habits based on this though. They have said they will, but there's no sure way of preventing new viral infections, only more or less effective ways of responding to them when they hit. Taking them seriously. Europe, for the most part, hasn't taken this seriously until too late, despite all the time to observe its effects in other countries. Again I repeat, France held public elections yesterday. Public. Elections. I mean, only fucking France should have to pay for the consequences of that! Plenty of examples from other individual nations too.
Yes I agree with not only Europes but the world response being poor but my argument is again this would not have been an issue if the virus had not come from China in the first place and for what all so people can eat anything with a pulse.
Every country flew back permanent residents and citizens of convenience using tax payers money putting everyone else at risk. All this just to look good and I am sure this has had a big hand int he current increase in cases as they are now saying some people need quarantining for 21 days not 14 like was originally thought.
My girlfriend is Chinese not only her but all of her friends are ashamed at how China has handled things and they are also saying that when this blows over the Chinese Government will announce new rules and regulations that they will make sure the rest of the world sees but none of it will be enforced. A lot of the people working in these markets will end up starving to death if any type of regulations are brought in as they are just scraping by as it is.
Here in Canada people are still entering and exiting the country as easy as they did 2 months ago people reporting not even seeing hand sanitizer dispensers anywhere in Pearson airport nor are they being asked any questions. Even people flying from hot zones are just being let right through the airport. All this after the Government said weeks ago safety measures would be implemented at airports. Already Ontario alone has more cases than Ireland.
A Chinese lad I train BJJ with was warning us here in Spain around 3-4 weeks ago. He had me freaked out tbh and everything he said eventually came to Spain. Said the government is all about saving face and couldn't give a toss who dies, so while I don't see reparations as an option, China is far from guiltless in all of these. They're sending out an image to the world but you'd have to wonder what's being held back.
I must say how fucking rich it is for the people who over the last month continued to travel abroad and to countries that were infected but now they are on social media like fucking experts telling us about not travelling.
Oh sorry but when I said that to you when you wanted to go on your holiday.. it was different then eh?!
Get fucked
Is this Boris climbing down and changing policy while trying to make out he's not climbing down and changing policy?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51917562
Quote from: Ducky on March 16, 2020, 03:43:02 PM
Everywhere in Sligo town is effectively shut, but sure fuck it the nail bar is still open... worse still, they're full of huns in getting them done.
I take it hun means something different in Sligo :laugh:
In all seriousness, the inaction of the UK government is fucking criminal. It's pathetic that the the DUP are willing to toe the line with London at all costs, even with something as serious as this. Even Jamie fucking Bryson has been tweeting about taking an all island approach. Everyone I've spoken to on either side of the community is utterly miffed at the lack of concrete advice, everything is up in the air.
What magic 'science' do Boris and Arlene know about that recommends doing the opposite of the rest of Europe? Its funny how the DUP are so concerned about scientific evidence now.
Quote from: mickO))) on March 16, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
They are already demanding apologies from the west because they feel they handled the virus very well.
Hell, they're now trying to push the narrative to their own people that the Americans deliberately send the virus to Wuhan.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/chinese-official-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-us-military/
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on March 16, 2020, 07:34:42 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on March 16, 2020, 03:07:15 PM
They are already demanding apologies from the west because they feel they handled the virus very well.
Hell, they're now trying to push the narrative to their own people that the Americans deliberately send the virus to Wuhan.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/chinese-official-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-us-military/
Yeah saw that the other day the president was saying that Trump created the virus. Sad thing is it won't be just the Chinese that will believe it .
It's actually crazy to see all these videos going around on facebook etc basically blaming Trump for it all, and most of them American made. Obviously Democratic hands behind them, but shit sticks as they say. I'm not calling for kow towing or beheadings but the international community needs to start taking action in relation to this stuff. China, the world's worst polluters and no coincidence that this is the result. Sanctions the only way.
Does anybody else get a sort of Cambridge Analytica buzz off this whole situation?
I'm not saying any of it isn't true or happening, but there is a real sense of experimenting with mass manipulation going on here and I find the idea pretty frightening. Especially as I'm in the middle of it, and I have the usual feelings of mistrust towards governments in general coupled with the feeling of wanting to do whatever they tell me to do in order to do my bit to help make this all go away.
Also, would the 3 billion set aside to deal with the fallout of all of this have been better spent on infrastructure and staffing to fix the fact that our health service is pretty unfit for purpose in a lot of areas as it is, rather than using it to compensate for the fact that the country must be shut down to give our services a chance to keep up with the extra demand?
Just some thoughts I was having as I roll all of this around in my head over and over throughout the day.
No I don't and I'd find a conspiracy theory a bit silly to be honest. I'd take the aliens building the pyramids in Egypt more seriously. It's probably a testament actually to how well we have managed disease to find this predicament so surprising. Imagine living in a period when antibiotics or antibacterial agents didn't exist or when there were no vaccines for the many diseases we have now. It was always much much more easier to die in earlier centuries or end up being a cripple. We've seen Ebola HIV or the more recent and similar avian flu for instance so it's not that unusual. If I was to propose a bizarre theory it would be one where nature was reacting against humanity to protect itself as a result of our interaction with the natural world. It could maybe be argued that it's big business and the model of growth that has been motivating human behaviour to the point where we are witnessing the collapse of unsustainable system but the actual Illuminati sitting around in some secret chamber and planning this I don't buy. I think it is a fascinating event that may change the world and how we live in it despite the obvious human tragedies. Of course we also might just solve it and get back to our usual behaviour. The criticism of the state of our health service is a hardly new and there will always be incompetence and corruption or vested interests but there is a serious danger of a major recession even a global one which could cause just as much bad problems for a society as a poor health service.
I work for the state on the campus that houses Bordeaux's main hospital. It's all very real, including the rudderless, constantly changing internal and national advice and restrictions. University and my research body changed tack four times between Friday and tonight, meaning two fully communicated strategy changes on the weekend. The chaos within and without the epidemic, here anyway, has no one in control of it.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 16, 2020, 08:38:04 PM
Does anybody else get a sort of Cambridge Analytica buzz off this whole situation?
I'm not saying any of it isn't true or happening, but there is a real sense of experimenting with mass manipulation going on here and I find the idea pretty frightening. Especially as I'm in the middle of it, and I have the usual feelings of mistrust towards governments in general coupled with the feeling of wanting to do whatever they tell me to do in order to do my bit to help make this all go away.
I definitely believe it's happening and the virus is out there but something since the beginning does not seem right about the whole thing and I can't put my finger on what. I think a lot more is going on behind the scenes that we are not being told about.
Not saying I believe any of it but if you have ever read anything about the New World Order and how it's suppose to happen things are starting to get a scary when you think of it in those terms.
I think everyone has thought of various different crazy things over the last few days. One thing I do believe is when this hits Africa it's going to wipe out half the continent.
Quote from: Alphonsus on March 16, 2020, 09:38:13 PM
No I don't and I'd find a conspiracy theory a bit silly to be honest.
You've taken me up wrong there. I said I didn't think it wasn't real, and I'm saying here now I don't think it was purposefully done. The Cambridge Analytica comment was meant to mean that now that it is happening there is a feeling I get that a lot of manipulation going on through social media channels in particular, to the gain of god-knows-who. I wouldn't put it past companies to take advantage of the situation in many different ways, now that the opportunity and the correct level of fear and confusion is in place. For example, if a post appears saying that using a certain brand of flight socks or tights can be used to make a great face mask, or that eating peas protects one in some way, it will influence the way people act and buy things on a mass scale. I think in fact that one would be extremely naive to think that something like that wouldn't be going on. I never said illuminati or any of that shit and I never said conspiracy, so please don't throw me into that bracket for throwing a few thoughts out there.
And Cambridge Analytica's attempted (or successful) efforts at influencing outcomes of elections, was certainly real and was certainly having a go mass manipulation through targeted social media posts based on individuals' political leanings and social connections. I'm not saying they are involved in any of this for the record.
And BSC above here, I agree with what you say about the constantly changing advice, the Nurofen thing for one being a great example of such.
Saying all that, I still can't shake the vague feeling of being some part of a large scale experiment in social control and misinformation
The conspiracy stuff is total nonsense. There's no way you could manufacture what's happening here in Europe without someone shouting from.the rooftops. Maybe the origin of the virus itself might be open to speculation but back home I've known and met lots of politicians over the years, my family were involved in politics and often had TD's in the house. We have an 'us and them' attitude to authority nowadays but a lot of it is manufactured and falls into an easy scapegoating by a general population who don't want to really get involved or be shaken out of their 9-5, few pints, watch the premiership on the weekends rituals. It's all a whole lot more tumultuous and reactionary than any giant plan. Yes, there are vested interests and people who make shit loads of money out there, even so they had to shut down this week when told to. The private sector will always push at the boundaries, but when governments, the EU, etc are strong, they fall into line. That's why democracy is the most important thing we have. The Chinese have suffered so much all the way from Mao to now, and while the likes of Boris or Donald, or whoever you don't like mightn't be ideal, they're a whole lot better than that prick who is running China at the moment.
According to the conspiracy theories it's not local TDs that are involved but only people at the top. As for someone shouting from the rooftops if anything, the last decade has shown how easily someone can be silenced / disgraced and how the media can very easily warp people's views on almost anything. Shut downs / self isolation will have very little noticeable effect on the rich / higher ups.
Look at what happened to Epstein and will most likely happen to Weinstein nobody is even looking into it. I remember sending a friend a text when Epstein was arrested in July that I bet he will "hang" himself soon. I also text the same person in January saying this virus is going to blow up soon and cause chaos across the world when they started talking about flying people home from China and he told me I was exaggerating.
Anyway that's the last I will say about conspiracies I don't want to be thinking about them now. I myself have decided to stay away from the news and facebook for the next few days if something is important enough I will hear about it through, my phone, whatsapp or Viber. Have never put facebook on my phone and never will. Just gonna watch TV, maybe finally start playing my PS4 or Xbox and get some reading / home training done.
As for the Chinese and Mao believe it or not but most still worship him.
Apologies astfgyl I went on a crazy rant there and it was kind of in general anyway
As we've all been told already
The main ways to fight the virus are very simple.
Wash your hands with soap.
Don't touch your face especially your eyes nose or mouth as the virus can enter your body through those.
Social distancing to avoid it passing from one body to another via droplets
If you want a non-conspiracy conspiracy plot, ye can mull over this one. He bungles the presentation a bit by lumping flu viruses in with coronaviruses, but what he intends to say is that a certain percentage of what people seasonally get and generically call "the flu" were already something else. Anyway, since many angles should be considered, albeit critically...
https://youtu.be/p_AyuhbnPOI
Not a bother Alphonsus, I enjoy the back and forth and I'm very open to the probability of being wrong.
I think the age of mass manipulation is certainly upon us and has been for a long time, but is being done more and more insidiously in general and reaches more and more people now that everybody is so connected to instant updates and information. I'm saying that in a general way though, not directly relating to the current situation. Even the likes of conspiracy theorists could be influenced by sending them down certain paths of serving them up whatever secret information it is that they want to believe, ie somebody who mistrusts the national government is fed something to reinforce their belief that national government is or has been lying to them all along, thus leading them into some other sort of manipulative misinformation, but it is now supplied by the trusted source who told them everything they wanted to believe in the first place. There you would have it, a non believer now ripened for indoctrination.
Say then, by using such techniques, a general feeling in the public is cooked up by misinformation, which then influences governmental decisions as a reaction to public unrest. The possibilities are endless.
Those are the sort of things I feel are probably going on in general in all parts of the world at all times anyway regardless.
And I'm a great believer in the idea of democracy myself, I just think that the whole idea can be very easily twisted in this day and age no matter what one's beliefs and leanings happen to be.
As regards politics, I don't believe anybody gets into it to do anything other than to try change things for the better but then when they get there, the financial rewards are often fantastic and to quote Jaz Coleman:
"The only way is up the only way is up
But when you are up you have to try and stay there
So you stamp and cheat on people"
So democracy is a fine idea, but capitalism often gets in the way of it as we see time and time again in a place like Ireland when so many of our political leaders have connections to private businesses and investors.
Right, a little bit stream of consciousness there to be fair but for the most part I don't know what to believe anymore is the general takeaway from my last couple of posts. I won't bring any of that up any more in this thread because it's all rather difficult for me to properly elucidate anyway and is of fuck all consequence to the situation we find ourselves in right now. For what it's worth, I'm doing what I'm advised and taking all of the general precautions I can
Back on topic, does anybody here know anyone who has tested positive, and how is that working out for them? I feel like a lot of people wouldn't go public if they did test positive, due to the general hysteria surrounding the whole situation. And how many people will suffer it out at home rather than face the testing and the stigma it will bring on themselves and their families I wonder.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 16, 2020, 11:37:57 PM
If you want a non-conspiracy conspiracy plot, ye can mull over this one. He bungles the presentation a bit by lumping flu viruses in with coronaviruses, but what he intends to say is that a certain percentage of what people seasonally get and generically call "the flu" were already something else. Anyway, since many angles should be considered, albeit critically...
https://youtu.be/p_AyuhbnPOI
Notably, he provides no form of solution or better path to solution than those being pursued; slow it down til we find a vaccine. In that sense, even if he is right, he's right only about a datum! Which I guess makes him feel smart but isn't otherwise all that useful!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 16, 2020, 11:37:57 PM
If you want a non-conspiracy conspiracy plot, ye can mull over this one. He bungles the presentation a bit by lumping flu viruses in with coronaviruses, but what he intends to say is that a certain percentage of what people seasonally get and generically call "the flu" were already something else. Anyway, since many angles should be considered, albeit critically...
https://youtu.be/p_AyuhbnPOI
Very interesting video there (and pretty much reinforcing what I want to believe!).
Before I even pressed play I got to thinking about my young fella who was hospitalised twice with a form of unspecified viral pneumonia and really frightened the shit out of me both times to the extent I wouldn't leave his side for a solid week.
Basically the doctors at the time told me the same thing that this guy is saying that there are new and unspecified viruses every year, and his case was simply another one of those and would have to run it's course. If it was to happen again this minute how differently he would be treated. Probably the full isolation and hazmat suit treatment. Actually not probably, definitely, and even before it was determined what type of virus exactly it was he had, in stark contrast to the treatment he did recieve at the time which was in the childrens ward in Clonmel in a room with other kids, and the docs and nurses did a great job looking after him. And nobody practiced their social distancing techniques on him, thankfully.
That is sort of what I was trying to get at with the Cambridge Analytica comment earlier but I don't always have the most wonderful means of expressing myself. I have had a feeling of something not being quite right with this ever since it was specifically traced back to the fish market. In a city of 11 million people. Something in the reporting of this is weird. It is obviously really a thing, but is getting somewhat skewed in the panic.
And then again maybe it isn't simply that and it really is a cause for global panic. I don't know
But who's going to take the horse to France now?
Findus.
Quote from: Snare on March 17, 2020, 01:06:42 AM
But who's going to take the horse to France now?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Finally!
Someone asking the right question...
You may or may not like him, but Russell Brand has a way with words that might just get your juices flowing. I have found him to be everything from an annoyingly smug twat to someone geniunely deep and interesting with a whole lot to offer the world. He puts into words here what I think many of us can `FEEL is happening around us at the moment, what has lead up to this event, the questions we all have in our collective un/subconscious. It is interesting that much of the language he uses is psychological/Jungian and from the little I have read of Jung, these ideas that everywhere in our media, our art, our music etc almost have been pointing towards an event like this coronavirus outbreak..essentially we knew this was coming because we know we are so imbalanced as a society in our relations with nature, the spirit etc etc. Who knows? Worth a watch though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1sbp5oyVh4
I feel similarly about Russell Brand. A sometimes irritating, usually interesting, sometimes both at the same time kind of dude. I'll have a look at the video in a bit.
Now, if they were doing this everywhere, you'd be justified in getting your tinfoil hat ready. Good ol Israel, always ahead of the curve:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-track-mobile-phones-of-suspected-coronavirus-cases
Worth a read for anyone into some detailed analysis, conclusion spoiler below.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf
QuotePerhaps our most significant conclusion is that mitigation is unlikely to be feasible without emergency surge capacity limits of the UK and US healthcare systems being exceeded many times over. In the most effective mitigation strategy examined, which leads to a single, relatively short epidemic (case isolation, household quarantine and social distancing of the elderly), the surge limits for both general ward and ICU beds would be exceeded by at least 8-fold under the more optimistic scenario for critical care requirements that we examined.In addition, even if all patients were able to be treated, we predict there would still be in the order of 250,000 deaths in GB, and 1.1-1.2 million in the US.
In the UK, this conclusion has only been reached in the last few days, with the refinement of estimates of likely ICU demand due to COVID-19 based on experience in Italy and the UK (previous planning estimates assumed half the demand now estimated) and with the NHS providing increasing certainty around the limits of hospital surge capacity.
We therefore conclude that epidemic suppression is the only viable strategy at the current time. The social and economic effects of the measures which are needed to achieve this policy goal will be profound. Many countries have adopted such measures already, but even those countries at an earlier stage of their epidemic(such as the UK) will need to do so imminently.
Frightening that report. Fuck me.
Brand's a good'un. He's a professional at putting his foot in it, and the Brits seem to give him the disdain we reserve for the likes of Bono, but he seems to be nothing short of a decent soul.
His thinking points there are where I've been at the last week or so, but like him I haven't fully been able to formulate them. The fact that normal functioning capitalism is basically going to have to liquify in order to deal with this very real crisis really highlights, for me, just how much of a hindrance it is to consequential change in general, like with the climate crisis. This is the central notion of "capitalist realism", whereby a virtual instrument by design becomes a real shackle in practice. The economy should be grounded at base in real resources not virtual instruments. It is modern humanity's greatest, most over-arching folly that it is not so.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0317/1123774-taoiseach-to-broadcast-to-country-on-covid-19-at-9pm/
Yep. Feels like the government is booting up for a recession. Cuntish.
I'm no Leo fan but I thought he was great in his address. Very sobering stuff. I'm genuinely fearful for some more vulnerable members of family and neighbours, as I'm sure most reasonable thinking people are. Hopefully the better case scenarios prevail.
I thought the complete opposite it was awful he offered absolutely no new information or nothing positive only told people that it's going to last months instead of weeks so everyone who was worried about paying bills will worry even more now.
Should have waited until he had at least one positive to offer the people.
They didn't think twice about bailing about the banks pity the citizens are not so lucky.
I thought he did very well, surprisingly. No, not much new info was forthcoming but at least he came across as honest and didn't try sugarcoat anything. Thought he was gonna announce a full lockdown so I suppose it was anticlimactic in that sense, if that's what one is after.
I'm more worried about the thought of a recession on top of a housing crisis, we get through the virus the country is fucked anyway.
I think the world will be a very different place in 6 month's time. No point speculating. This is beyond anything in my lifetime and I'm an old cunt.
Yeah!
Nothing new, bit a few points to digest a bit further.
I think the fact it's Patrick's Day and we're all bored off our tits was the main reason for Leo doing this tonight.
I am in the south of Spain and have had to start working from home through a university here. The streets are on lockdown, cops everywhere threatening to fine people for leaving their homes without necessity. People are on their balconies every night cheering and applauding to celebrate nurses and hospitals, as well as generate some kind of cheer. Events are unfolding so fast sometimes it's hard for me to keep up with it all. Trying to maintain sanity and keep life as 'normal' as possible, music and books are the order of day. I might leave to take out rubbish or buy food and whatever supplies from local shops. The staff in those shops wearing masks. This is proper surreal😕.
Someone mentioned Nurofen earlier. Word circulating in France is that, unless necessary for another condition, avoid anti-inflammatories if symptoms manifest. First 4 admitted to intensive care in Bordeaux were quite young, one only 26, all had taken anti-inflammatories. Not enough evidence to show causal link yet, but if avoidable, avoid.
That'a been going around for a few days and has since been debunked, though they're advising caution nonetheless, as there are still so many unknowns about this thing:
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/51929628
Yep a lot of fake news not helping things. People passing messages willy nilly like the fools learned nothing from spam email in previous events. "I know a guard, blah blah fucking blah...", fuck sake, sick people scare mongering and driving all the sheep into stores to stock up on water etc, christ. It's the same morons passing social media messages as before without thinking. Think before we propagate people.
I wouldn't not take neurofen etc based on hearsay. My own take on this is Cork radio host Neil Prendiville getting revenge after his neurofen Plus, lad in the hand episode on an aer lingus flight a few years ago that he blamed on the drug.
I absolutely detest the smarmy Blueshirts, but I must admit I'm really impressed by their press conferences and addresses, actually showing great leadership for a change, fair play.
This came straight from the anaesthesist general at intensive care in Bordeaux in an interview published this evening and others have said the same in the last few days, all reported from interviews with reputable media sources. All say a causal link hasn't been established but best to choose, for example, paracetamol first. That BBC article says the same.
The similarities in the Cork, Toulouse (both described as false in BBC article) and Bordeaux stories are interesting, I'll see what I can find. Not impossible the Bordeaux one is the origin story and factual.
Gonna be interesting if my gout flares up, as the strong Nurofen is the only thing (unless I have access to Difene, which I don't at the moment) that eases the pain.
I thought Leos speech was just Ok..it may help to push it home to the previous pub/cheltenham brigade to kop on..but it was slim in detail regarding real help on the finances side...the banks better step up to the plate over this...although just before this really blew up at least one was trying to push through contactless charges..they have since put it in hold though...
Quote from: Carnage on March 18, 2020, 01:45:49 AM
Gonna be interesting if my gout flares up, as the strong Nurofen is the only thing (unless I have access to Difene, which I don't at the moment) that eases the pain.
If you have a flare up of gout, take ibuprofen. If you start showing coronavirus-like symptoms, don't. Consulted all the pharmacists from the lab this morning and they agree it's best to avoid unless necessary for a pre-existing condition:
"In general with breathing problems NSAIDs is never a good idea. Inhibition of COX induce increasing amount of substrates for leukotrienes (=bronchocostriction)."
Nice one.
I went through, probably what you all went through, maybe a week ago here in Spain...jesus I have no idea of time at. Best thing you could do is not read any of the poxy messages you are being sent because half of them are bollox. Get yourselves some tins of beans, some good shit to read and listen to etc etc and things start to take on a rhythm of their own after a few days.
Sorry BSC, I perhaps should have clarified and not mixed in different comments.
The neurofen thing isn't a Cork story, just that people here are aware of it (the source I'm not aware of). I was just joking to the wife that I wouldn't be surprised if an infamous radio talk show host here was propagating it. Mental story a few years back where he was up in court for pleasuring himself on a flight from London while sitting next to a reporter from the Examiner. His defense was that the neurofen plus was to blame for going full mental, not the gargle.
My fake news issue related to the panic brigade just forwarding messages last weekend about "knowing someone in" the army / gardai / hospital service that a big announcement was to be made last Monday morning at 11am, the country was going into lock down and you should stock up on bottled water (because essential services will be cut off for some reason??). These are the exact same space cadets that do IT Dept heads in I imagine for not ever having any cop-in at all. "I don't know, I just..." I think they'd just forward any oul crap so people should just take things they hear with a good dose of salt. I extend that to everything at this stage by default so apologies if it seemed I was dissing you and your reasoning but things can have unintended consequences for others, e.g. gout sufferers.
Ok it's about time I kicked off actually working from home today... :-[
No man you're bang on the button. Loads of absolute nonsense being sent around and I've been guilty of it too. Take everything with a pinch of salt and check the offical story constantly.
On a related note a military truck just passed by advising people to stay in their houses over the megaphone..surreal.
Then you read stories like this...there's something wrong with people who probably hardly ever talk to their neighbours at the best of times and then feel the need to get together after 1 day of being told to stay indoors. RTE must be full of absolute mongs.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0318/1123786-street-exercise-dublin/
I'm in work today. I'm surprised, to be honest. I thought after Leo's speech everything would be shut down but some sites are still operating. It feels like a wind down, though. I'd be surprised if any sites are operating next week.
Just heard my aunt's in self-isolation, waiting to be tested. She's in her 60s and diabetic so I hope for her sake that it's just a cold.
Hope she's ok, mate.
Hearing they've closed school's in Wales and Scotland. Not long for England and norn iron to follow. They say if they shut it will be til August. That's the summer 2020 exam series gone.
Quote from: Carnage on March 18, 2020, 12:52:47 PM
Just heard my aunt's in self-isolation, waiting to be tested. She's in her 60s and diabetic so I hope for her sake that it's just a cold.
Same with my bother showing symptoms and is waiting to be tested. Lovely thing to hear when you are 4500km away from home.
Quote from: Snare on March 18, 2020, 09:38:11 AM
Sorry BSC, I perhaps should have clarified and not mixed in different comments.
The neurofen thing isn't a Cork story, just that people here are aware of it (the source I'm not aware of). I was just joking to the wife that I wouldn't be surprised if an infamous radio talk show host here was propagating it. Mental story a few years back where he was up in court for pleasuring himself on a flight from London while sitting next to a reporter from the Examiner. His defense was that the neurofen plus was to blame for going full mental, not the gargle.
Which lead to the absolute best piece of graffiti ever, no questions asked
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5223/5613981979_09b0603288_b.jpg)
.
Quote from: Snare on March 18, 2020, 12:53:17 AM
Yep a lot of fake news not helping things. People passing messages willy nilly like the fools learned nothing from spam email in previous events. "I know a guard, blah blah fucking blah...", fuck sake, sick people scare mongering and driving all the sheep into stores to stock up on water etc, christ. It's the same morons passing social media messages as before without thinking. Think before we propagate people.
I wouldn't not take neurofen etc based on hearsay. My own take on this is Cork radio host Neil Prendiville getting revenge after his neurofen Plus, lad in the hand episode on an aer lingus flight a few years ago that he blamed on the drug.
I absolutely detest the smarmy Blueshirts, but I must admit I'm really impressed by their press conferences and addresses, actually showing great leadership for a change, fair play.
A good few years Mr snare 2010!
I've been watching over https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR0h-FL0VHEo4ixHW6wbOFNMIjqY75OxCdJKw_2wL7QX15BJYTJTflk2G5k
Now look, I know it's China so you'd never know what they are hiding but they haven't had a recorded new case in a a whole now. What is really crazy is that Italy is set to pass them out with the number of deaths total. Both showing around the same number on seriously crit.
Quote from: Aborted on March 18, 2020, 11:38:02 PM
I've been watching over https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR0h-FL0VHEo4ixHW6wbOFNMIjqY75OxCdJKw_2wL7QX15BJYTJTflk2G5k
Now look, I know it's China so you'd never know what they are hiding but they haven't had a recorded new case in a a whole now. What is really crazy is that Italy is set to pass them out with the number of deaths total. Both showing around the same number on seriously crit.
Yeah!
I call bullshit on those Chine stats, as well.
Smells like bullshit to me. They are trying to change the narrative now and it's up to the rest of us to put massive pressure on them now to change their ways. We've had a number of viruses come out of the same part of the world, all related to their wet markets and ways they treat endangered animals. The results are catastrophic, our economies are going to be in the toilet, and no PC tipping around the subject is going to change things. I think Trump is bang on the money calling it the Chinese Virus. It's got nothing to do with xenophobia and everything to do with pinpointing what government has allowed this whole shit show to happen.
We should all be a whole lot more pissed off about this than our medias are portraying. I'm on my tearrace here in a town of 300,000 people. You could hear a pin drop. The police go up and down the streets making sure nobody is on the street. A guy aas arrested last night for being outside with no excuse right across the street from me...that's not a world we want to live in.
And if we need a history lesson lets look.at SARS from Wikipedia:
'In late May 2003, studies from samples of wild animals sold as food in the local market in Guangdong, China, found a strain of SARS coronavirus could be isolated from masked palm civets (Paguma sp.), but the animals did not always show clinical signs. The preliminary conclusion was the SARS virus crossed the xenographic barrier from palm civet to humans, and more than 10,000 masked palm civets were killed in Guangdong Province. The virus was also later found in raccoon dogs (Nyctereuteus sp.), ferret badgers (Melogale spp.), and domestic cats. In 2005, two studies identified a number of SARS-like coronaviruses in Chinese bats.[14][15] Phylogenetic analysis of these viruses indicated a high probability that SARS coronavirus originated in bats and spread to humans either directly or through animals held in Chinese markets'.
Ring a bell?
Awful fuckery.. and that's pretty much china for ya. They seem to have such a hold on so many things business wise that they get a free pass.
They really couldn't give a fuck
And yet noone seems to be saying it in our media. We're so cowed that we can't say that their regime is utterly evil, silencing media, sterlising millions of women, religious persecution, the list is endless.
"Nobody saw this coming" - it's been coming since end of Jan / first week of Feb when it starts spilling out to other countries. That was the time to start taking action and preparing. Our CMO said back then we *might* get 1 or 2 cases "in the coming months". I remember 3 weeks ago listening to the radio/TV/online etc, people giving out about doom mongers and will cause people to panic. Nonsense that doesn't add anything to the discussion. We were going to get those people who panic regardless, either they panic early or panic later, doesn't matter, they were going to go out and panic buy the bog roll and panic shite all over the gaf for a few days.
So Leo told us he was going to give an announcement. But there was no announcement, not even an update, just a PR stunt as far as I could tell. Perhaps it was an update to people without internet. But he did say there might be 15,000 cases here by end of Month, which is 950 or so on average per day until then. That will cripple our health system. They had a chance to restrict flights and travel, we are an island and could have used that to our advantage but they didn't take it seriously until last week when they received more information on modeling and stats on our cases and how cases have grown hugely in other countries. I am glad they finally acted but wish they did more. As far as I'm concerned they will have blood on their hands for their inaction.
A study published in March indicated that if Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95% and its geographic spread limited. But as I said previously, trade/tourism over health.
https://www.southampton.ac.uk/news/2020/03/covid-19-china.page
By Monday I reckon we are looking at about 1,000 cases with probably nearly half of our ICU beds filled. By Thursday next week, probably hit max capacity in terms of ICU beds and things will start to look bleak.
We're not all in bed with China out of the kindness of our hearts. We're in bed with China for reasons of financial advantage and gain. We got into bed with China and all her ways, some of which are much more morally questionable than wet markets. We got into that bed, and we've been snuggling deeper and deeper into it in recent years, and so we have to share responsibility in everything of China that rubs off on us. The bed was all sorts of dirty before we got in.
People keep saying that, but who got into bed with them? The usual greedy bastards. Not some 65 year old woman from Donegal who barely walked outside her village all her life and now has to sit inside her house in case she dies from a disease originating thousands of miles away. Our lives have changed dramatically over the last 20 years and to say that we all asked for them to change in the ways they have is simply not true. Those who lead us are to blame and even then half of them.are so stupid that they don't even realise. We've been led by the blind for so long, silenced by PC culture and distracted by all sorts of absolute nonsense, when the real damage is taking place right underneath our noses. I have always had an issue dealing with China, giving them leeway into everything when they are run by a truly evil regime. China has benefitted enormously, and in the same way they need to take a big share of the blame here. You might get into bed with someone but it would be good manners if they told you they had a bad case of the crabs or a rashy fanny before you start getting too intimate.
What I'm saying is that we knew all about their STDs. And also that we're so close to them because of the type of society we live in. If we don't like that we're so close to regimes like China, then we have to resist the model that brings us next to them. Fingers in the ears 99% of the time, then when we can't ignore it blame China. We're all to blame. Our economy props up theirs and vice versa. We have a global economy, but more fundamentally we have a globe, and we're all in it and of it, and "put pressure on China" as if they're outside doesn't fly. I mean Brand doesn't mention the geopolitical details, but this is the mentality he's saying we need to get rid of.
Well it's a 2 way thing. Of course we're all involved in but this is not the first time we have a coronavirus coming out of the exact same circumstances and place. Yes the roots lie in the system, but we've got to start somewhere. We're talking about cutting emissions and changing the world for the better, people clogging up the centre of London demanding change and yet when we see animals on the edge of extinction in wet markets in China, a state that controls the movements of every one of it's citizens, the world's largest polluter, Hong Kong, Tibet, The Uighir, mass sterilisation, why isn't Greta outside the Chinese embassy everyday protesting? And yes, it's up to everyone now to start boycotting them. It's far more entrenched in our society..all our clothes, tech, everything, but then Trump says it and the snowflakes go into mass hysteria. We have to wrestle control back. China is low hanging fruit, we're all talking about being unhappy with the way things are, well this is a good start.
And I'm saying all that while agreeing with your ideas and probably Brand's on the system we live in. However, without divine intervention, a system has to be changed slowly and reactively. There has to be somewhere to start with it all.
Also, I have no problem believing the Chinese numbers. The Chinese government tells the people to do something, they fucking do it. Normally, I agree, that's not a great way to be, but in times of quarantine it's exactly what's necessary. Also, they're far more adaptable to changes in situation precisely because of the less liberal structure of their internal economy. It's far from perfect, especially where it approaches ours, but it allows them to react to something like this in exactly the way all of our states have backed away from for fear of internal economic collapse.
Apparently the air in China is cleaner than it has been in a long time with the halt of industry over there. I saw on the news that the canals in Venice have also become clean and full of fish. It shows that the natural environment could easily and quickly fix itself if we give it a chance to breathe. I wonder will that lesson be taken on board once this crisis passes or if it will be forgotten.
Yes I saw that about the fish in Venice as well and found it very interesting indeed how quickly they got back into it. There are certainly a lot of lessons that could be learned from this whole situation regarding our relationship with nature. I have zero faith in anything being learned though beyond a rake of weird restrictions put on the regular person, as I believe the constant pursuit of more money and possessions will ensure that governments and corporations will continue to do the wrong things for the environment we live in.
Not going to get into the China thing because I don't understand very much about their general buzz, only what I read and my brother in law lives there and tells me a bit about it and how the people are silenced there but I know fuck all really beyond the fact that they seem particularly callous and untrustworthy at government level.
From what I have seen here where I live, almost everybody is trying to do the right thing regarding social distancing and hygiene in a combined effort to alleviate the situation. So given that, and if it were to continue for another 2 or 3 weeks, would we then have a finite number of infections and see the rate of new infections suddenly drop off? Or is that how it is expected to pan out? Like if everyone does the right thing (which they of course won't do) what is the expected time frame for this?
Another thing I have noticed creeping in over the last couple of days is a sort of "distance shaming" where people are pointing out others who do not appear to be the requisite distance from one another and I hear the conversations between people in a "look at those pricks" sort of way. I feel that after this situation begins to abate there will be a lot of resentment built up among people over who was seen to make the best effort and who wasn't. A potential nasty side effect indeed. On a related note I haven't seen anybody with a cold or a cough out in public which is unusual and maybe something to do with the stigma attached to it in this moment, but given that, shouldn't we see a massive drop in infection rates of other regular viruses such as common cold and influenza and indeed all sorts of other infections? That will be interesting to see.
Lastly, I was talking to a chap a little while ago and we were mulling over the probability that this situation will be used to further the cause for bringing in the full privatisation of the health service, which in my opinion would be a very sad day to see. What do any of the rest of ye think is the likelihood of such an outcome?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 19, 2020, 05:14:57 PM
Apparently the air in China is cleaner than it has been in a long time with the halt of industry over there. I saw on the news that the canals in Venice have also become clean and full of fish. It shows that the natural environment could easily and quickly fix itself if we give it a chance to breathe. I wonder will that lesson be taken on board once this crisis passes or if it will be forgotten.
I think we tend to learn things quite slowly but where there's a will there's a way. There are many cases in the past where products we were using were found to be extremely unhealthy and we literally stopped using them overnight. What must it be like to be a local in Venice? It must be pure torture with every.cunt with a camera invading your space. The ballot box would look very appealing if you could vote for someone who promised to clean the place up properly. Of course then there'd be the moaners giving out then about loss of tourism money etc.
It's the same in Ireland. We havr the exact same trai n tracks and bridges that were built when the British were ruling us. We literally have built fuck all infrastructure apart from the roads of course which were badly needed. A proper nationwide train service would revolutionise our country, cut down on emissions, cut down on the need to live in Dublin, but everytime someone has an idea there's opposition from all areas to it. If we want clean, sustainable living, we need to start seeing things on a far more macro level.
It's... THE FLICKER EFFECT!
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90642266_10158457446018982_5816724438615326720_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_eui2=AeHph-606oixe1PVu4-htevPKE2CAmdX-dtG-VDFka2XvAcwb9iUQDawnAq-XJrQnqBjx1RMP-YdyiE6U-bw-mCYRUBKJNL7tCkpqvvNPhA10g&_nc_ohc=touD8zmq8iYAX9bTlrM&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=176767e0b8f7a2ac8102936b54d9467c&oe=5E9851DE)
I can't stop eating. Got the shakes for alcohol earlier aswell. We'll all end up in AA.
I've watched 9 films since Friday night, so that's something (I have a backlog of 60-70 to get through). The odd few cans or bottles of wine are going down well, too. Amazingly I'm not eating much at all, which is the opposite of how I thought it'd go.
I'm also eating way less. No snacks. The odd 4 pack of Beamish or Guínness is going down a treat though.
My wanking levels haven't been affected at all..weird!
I've got ten cans of Guinness in the fridge, I'll have a couple of them tomorrow night.
Got a few hours' work this morning, another 3 tomorrow. He's effectively shut up shop but doing a few mornings behind closed doors, taking repairs in without interacting with people so I should have a very few hours each week. Doing the oul' Xs & Os for a while 'til it picks up. Better than nothing, I suppose.
Office is doing rotating shifts so there's only ever half of us in the building and the rest work from home. It's becoming quickly obvious that anybody who has any distraction at all is not getting fuck all done at home, and they're treating it as a holiday.
Quote from: kiehozero on March 20, 2020, 08:48:36 AMIt's becoming quickly obvious that anybody who has any distraction at all is not getting fuck all done at home, and they're treating it as a holiday.
Unsurprising though isn't it. They'll be the same ones bitching and moaning to be allowed to do it in the first place.. yet be the cause of it never happening again when all this shit clears up.
Seeing clips of students in the US all out on beaches in droves for start of spring break like the typical fucknuts that they are. Seeing comments already about 'hur dduurr duur our freedom.. our rights' etc
Yeah it's because of twats like ye that the government have to step in because you can't follow a simple request of staying at home.
Fuck me, if covid could target specific people a culling would be acceptable
Quote from: Pedrito on March 19, 2020, 10:46:04 PM
My wanking levels haven't been affected at all..weird!
So that's why all the hand sanitizer is sold out
Quote from: Ducky on March 20, 2020, 11:49:08 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 19, 2020, 10:46:04 PM
My wanking levels haven't been affected at all..weird!
He's making it as quick as he can!
So that's why all the hand sanitizer is sold out
Quote from: Ducky on March 20, 2020, 11:49:08 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 19, 2020, 10:46:04 PM
My wanking levels haven't been affected at all..weird!
So that's why all the hand sanitizer is sold out
All I know is that I'll never listen to Scavenger "Breaking the Chain" again, it's forever tarnished by this inside information! :-[
Quote from: Aborted on March 20, 2020, 09:16:05 AM
Quote from: kiehozero on March 20, 2020, 08:48:36 AMIt's becoming quickly obvious that anybody who has any distraction at all is not getting fuck all done at home, and they're treating it as a holiday.
Unsurprising though isn't it. They'll be the same ones bitching and moaning to be allowed to do it in the first place.. yet be the cause of it never happening again when all this shit clears up.
If it's doing anything it is showing up the people who never actually look at any data we get. I'm a retail analyst and we have some people who will take the information you get from the tills and actually do something with it, or we'll show them trends they can't possibly spot just being in one store rather than hundred. On the other hand we have people who think they know best or they'll chase hitting a particular margin, even if it means tanking their sales to do so. The systems we've designed are self-service and have built-in usage metrics, with everyone being out of the office the top brass are now asking us to provide those metrics on their teams and they've now seen the correlation between staff performance and those metrics.
Quote from: Snare on March 20, 2020, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: Ducky on March 20, 2020, 11:49:08 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 19, 2020, 10:46:04 PM
My wanking levels haven't been affected at all..weird!
So that's why all the hand sanitizer is sold out
All I know is that I'll never listen to Scavenger "Breaking the Chain" again, it's forever tarnished by this inside information! :-[
:laugh:
So the system's collapsed in Spain in terms of the ventilator machines needed to keep people alive. They're giving priority to people who are expected to survive and a lad here in our hometown with down syndrome has been told(his family) that he doesn't have priority. All because some cunts want to eat endangered animals. Of course he wouldn't have survived this long in China anyway, they would have made sure of that. Sickening.
Jesus dude. If you want to go down that road, in most of western Europe he would have been aborted in the second trimester.
Grim
Just watching https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR0h-FL0VHEo4ixHW6wbOFNMIjqY75OxCdJKw_2wL7QX15BJYTJTflk2G5k
Spain and Iran have jumped over night, 233 & 123 new deaths :-\
Someone pointed out to me earlier that it's only just over a week since the schools clothes, feels like a month at this point
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 21, 2020, 10:59:09 AM
Jesus dude. If you want to go down that road, in most of western Europe he would have been aborted in the second trimester.
Yes, and certainly something I am conflicted about, something that I think should be a constant source of dialogue rather than a closed book. Life and especially those of people with down sydrome has become an elephant in the room and it makes people uncomfortable. A metal website maybe not the place for that argument though.
We are getting constant reports of deaths. Nearly 300 yesterday in Spain and it's just numbers. But each one of them people has a family, people that love them etc, they're not just a number like they would be out in some communist hellhole. It's depressing here when I walk outside. Everything that I love about Spain, the cameraderie, the closeness, the hugs and kisses, it's all on hold, and I feel really bad for these people. I think we need to be angrier than we are, not some stupid xenophobic, toxic anger, but anger about how our world is being bought and sold off, people treated like garbage and numbers, and how outmoded practices are being allowed to continue that have created Sars, birdflu and coronavirus. Also I think I'm listening to too much Holy Terror :laugh:
I find Donald Trump, as usual, a huge source of entertainment by baiting the liberal media by calling it the 'Chinese' virus.
Everything that I love about Spain, the cameraderie, the closeness, the hugs and kisses, it's all on hold.
Fuck sake
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 21, 2020, 12:57:06 PM
I find Donald Trump, as usual, a huge source of entertainment by baiting the liberal media by calling it the 'Chinese' virus.
That video is gold... :laugh:
When he says to your one can you repeat that, no just the term. You can tell by head on him he pissed himself laughing after the press conference. That reporter that asked him about Kung Flu seems like a right cunt have seen other clips of her before trying to stir shit up with other politicians at press conferences.
Quote from: blessed1 on March 21, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Everything that I love about Spain, the cameraderie, the closeness, the hugs and kisses, it's all on hold.
Fuck sake
Yeah it's all a big pisstake, apologies for making you feel uncomfortable.
Kung flu gave me a laugh. I hadn't heard that before I saw the clip.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 21, 2020, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on March 21, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Everything that I love about Spain, the cameraderie, the closeness, the hugs and kisses, it's all on hold.
Fuck sake
Yeah it's all a big pisstake, apologies for making you feel uncomfortable.
My point was things are a bit more serious now and you are worried about a few hugs and kisses.
Quote from: blessed1 on March 21, 2020, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 21, 2020, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on March 21, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
Everything that I love about Spain, the cameraderie, the closeness, the hugs and kisses, it's all on hold.
Fuck sake
Yeah it's all a big pisstake, apologies for making you feel uncomfortable.
My point was things are a bit more serious now and you are worried about a few hugs and kisses.
Ah I get ye, no I´'m saying the whole fabric of society here, everything that makes it tick has been affected, which is sad to see. That said, everyone is indoors, nobody is acting the bollix. Apologies, there's a lot of tension about the place here at the moment, a lot of my friends are affected, horrible to hear about. I'll wind my neck in a bit.
Wise the bocadillo there amigo!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 21, 2020, 05:39:15 PM
Wise the bocadillo there amigo!
Message received loud and clear. Listening to Holy Terror in confined spaces is way too much :laugh:
Switzerland checking in...whilst nowhere near as grim as Spain or Italy, it's a weird place to be right now. Been stuck at home for a week now, walks and food shopping aside.
I thought working from home would be a breeze, but actually the mental side of all this is tough. If you can get out and get some fresh air, perhaps see some other humans (from a distance!), I recommend you do.
It's not working from home thats the problem I have been working from home for almost a year now usually just 1 day in the office and I love it but this doesn't feel the same. I think people with small kids might find it very annoying.
If you think this is bad wait until the internet and electricity shortages start.
Disgraceful at home Drogheda a town of over over 40,000 has no testing site people have to go too Dundalk. So if you don't drive you are told not use public transport so you have to get someone else to drive you who then has to risk infection.
Weird buzz in Sligo town today (needed a few bits and to stave off the cabin fever). Basically the only places open are chemists, supermarkets and.... GameStop.
As someone that spent years of their life standing behind the till in that place, all I can think is fuck GameStop from on high. Apparently HO have told them they'll close when the government makes them. Cretins.
We had the director of one of the institutes here (thankfully not mine) say the same thing. The government did just that two days later. So even among people who should have a bit of an intuition for how to read stats and understand predictions based on them can be selfish assholes. When director of another institute suggested research on the whole campus shut down, this lad said he disagreed with any "spontaneous erratic initiatives" and would keep his lab open (read, force his team to come to work) until instructed otherwise. That was on 15th March, France already alarmingly far along the "Italian curve".
No cases in County Monaghan, but then there's no testing whatsoever being done either. Might be a test centre opening up in a few days. Might.
Nobody's surprised though, it's standard government policy over the years, no matter whatever party's involved, to repeatedly fuck over this area when it comes to health matters.
Just announced we're going to be locked in 15 more days in Spain until April 12th..mental.
They are going into lock down tuesday in France now apparently.
People were just ignoring the warnings last week and this week gathering on beaches was probably the last straw.
We were initially supposed to leave France end of this month but thankfully left early and got out just in time two weeks ago.
Just saw queues of people outside JD Sports for their sale. A fucking sale at this point, what utter stupidity.
Quote from: Ducky on March 22, 2020, 12:15:11 AM
As someone that spent years of their life standing behind the till in that place, all I can think is fuck GameStop from on high. Apparently HO have told them they'll close when the government makes them. Cretins.
I can kinda see the logic in keeping a shop like Gamestop open at this time. Plenty of kids and teens off school, and with no return date in near sight, video games are prob in high(er) demand than usual. I have a Switch, and generally opt for the physical copies of games as these can be traded in down the line. I'd only have a problem with businesses remaining open where there would be serious public health implications by doing so. As long as Gamestop or whoever take the appropriate measures, provision of hand sanitizers, implement effective crowd control, etc, then I don't see an issue. Something like JD sports holding a sale, as alluded to earlier, I would def have an issue with.
Edit
https://www.windowscentral.com/gamestop-wont-close-stores-because-they-are-essential-during-coronavirus-pandemic
Guess I'm completely way off the mark on this!!
Quote from: Carnage on March 22, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
Just saw queues of people outside JD Sports for their sale. A fucking sale at this point, what utter stupidity.
jees...where?
Drove up to Summerhiill and Parnell Street today and the place was like a zombie apocalypse. The only people about are hoarders or people who have nowhere else to go, the scale of the city's homeless crisis is even more magnified when nobody else is around.
Quote from: Carnage on March 22, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
Just saw queues of people outside JD Sports for their sale. A fucking sale at this point, what utter stupidity.
Jesus wept... these fucking morons
Quote from: Pedrito on March 22, 2020, 11:34:17 AM
Just announced we're going to be locked in 15 more days in Spain until April 12th..mental.
I'd say they will keep extending it. Where I live is a complete ghost town, really creepy. Never seen the likes of this before, still trying to process it.
Quote from: The Heretic on March 22, 2020, 12:46:08 PM
Quote from: Carnage on March 22, 2020, 12:10:01 PM
Just saw queues of people outside JD Sports for their sale. A fucking sale at this point, what utter stupidity.
jees...where?
Dublin, I think. It was a tweet reposted on Facebook.
First Cheltenham attendee confirmed in Ireland. Weaponised stupidity.
Quote from: leatherface on March 22, 2020, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 22, 2020, 11:34:17 AM
Just announced we're going to be locked in 15 more days in Spain until April 12th..mental.
I'd say they will keep extending it. Where I live is a complete ghost town, really creepy. Never seen the likes of this before, still trying to process it.
Where you living? It's the oddest thing ever tbh. The day is grand, loads to do around the house etc, the mornings are odd though, when you realise you are basically limited to a radius of a few streets and if you're really adventurous a trip to a supermarket in the car which I have yet to do for fear of losing my parking spot. Moving back to Ireland ti a green field in the middle of nowhere is starting to look really tempting right now.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 22, 2020, 03:28:36 PM
Quote from: leatherface on March 22, 2020, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 22, 2020, 11:34:17 AM
Just announced we're going to be locked in 15 more days in Spain until April 12th..mental.
I'd say they will keep extending it. Where I live is a complete ghost town, really creepy. Never seen the likes of this before, still trying to process it.
Where you living? It's the oddest thing ever tbh. The day is grand, loads to do around the house etc, the mornings are odd though, when you realise you are basically limited to a radius of a few streets and if you're really adventurous a trip to a supermarket in the car which I have yet to do for fear of losing my parking spot. Moving back to Ireland ti a green field in the middle of nowhere is starting to look really tempting right now.
I'm in south east Andalucía. I get out now and then to leave out bins/get groceries. I step out for less than 10 mins a day and stock up in the local neighbourhood shop. No way I am going to big supermarkets where you have to queue to get in and ultimately spend more time outside, no thanks.
Went out for a drive earlier. Hordes of people at Glasnevin Cemetery, cars parked nearly the whole length of the thing. Guessing it's for mothers day but cop the fuck on. If you've a parent in there they won't be going anywhere
All the beaches here were mobbed, cops had to close them!
There was a big queue on the access to the Bettystown beach today. Some of my friends from Drogheda wanted to go over there too.....insane. Usually people don't feel like going aywhere, but now, in this situation, it is like entire country is on vacations at the same time.
Bettystown has been rammed all week. It's the fact that people are being told not to go out that they want to. I have friends preaching about keeping distance then they are posting picture online of them over at someones house with a gang. They seem to think that because they are playing monopoly and not partying that it's ok.
People like this that are gonna cause a full lockdown.
Saw a pic of a big queue for a chipper in Howth earlier. Fucksake. How are people not getting it at this stage?
Quote from: mickO))) on March 22, 2020, 10:24:11 PM
Bettystown has been rammed all week. It's the fact that people are being told not to go out that they want to. I have friends preaching about keeping distance then they are posting picture online of them over at someones house with a gang. They seem to think that because they are playing monopoly and not partying that it's ok.
People like this that are gonna cause a full lockdown.
Exactly.....it is people like that who will fuck this up even more for the rest of us.
My friends are one of those people.....they are speaking against others who are walking around the Drogheda centre, and then they go to the rammed beach themselves, and complain why are all these other people over there too.......
Quote from: Trev on March 22, 2020, 04:50:14 PM
Went out for a drive earlier. Hordes of people at Glasnevin Cemetery, cars parked nearly the whole length of the thing. Guessing it's for mothers day but cop the fuck on. If you've a parent in there they won't be going anywhere
I live just behind the main cemetery in Sligo and yep, hapes of people in there today.
Lads its so fucking infuriating seeing and hearing about this shit.
This is why governments step in with shit like lock downs, you can't fucking trust these fucking idiots to do something as simple as staying inside unless necessary. I want to take a fucking hurley to these dumb ass fucks... it's unreal.
Slap some big fines on these idiots and any gangs out actin the bollox need a swift kicking or the classic snooker ball in a sock routine.
It should have been a lockdown from the start. The lesson from other countries is that nothing else works. No point blaming it on actions of given individuals, the job of governments is to predict it and act with it in mind. Lockdown, nothing less will do.
Russia closed its borders with China on January 30th and look at the results. Some of the stories I'm hearing where I live are fucked up tbh and I really hope I'm not in a 'I told you so' situation soon. Hopefully Ireland won't be effected in the same way.
Lockdown is barely adhered to here in madrid. Barely. Some auld spastic came to he door earlier to have a whinge at the bird. I shouted 'fuck off' (at the cat) a few times, not a bother on them. Unreal hi
Chuck Billy and the wife and some of the Testament roadcrew now tested positive apparently.
On a brighter note, so has Weinstein.
We need Weinstein alive to testify against all his buddies.
Unsurprisingly, lycra clad idiots who jog on my walk are immune to social distancing, and will gladly huff and heave up from behind you at about an inch, lest they break their precious times.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 21, 2020, 12:57:06 PM
I find Donald Trump, as usual, a huge source of entertainment by baiting the liberal media by calling it the 'Chinese' virus.
Kung Flu
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 22, 2020, 11:26:22 PM
It should have been a lockdown from the start. The lesson from other countries is that nothing else works. No point blaming it on actions of given individuals, the job of governments is to predict it and act with it in mind. Lockdown, nothing less will do.
You hit the nail on the head there chief 👌🏻
It's easy to make those claims in retrospect. Nobody knew what we were dealing with for a couple of weeks and if the country went into immediate lockdown because of a virus in China, everyone would have gone insane and not taken it seriously. I think that the government here have actually played this one quite well in keeping peoples' fears and panic in check while at the same time implementing easy to follow and effective instructions. That's how I see it anyway.
We need to get over blaming the government for the poor decisions of individuals. Unless you're a fucking moron, for some time it has been quite obvious what the correct course of action was and you shouldn't need the government to force you not to be a fucking thick.
That's it exactly. The guidelines are fairly simple and straight forward and if people follow them it might save a full on lockdown scenario happening which would be a total fucking cunt of a situation.
My Italian lady has just sent me a video of Italian mayors shouting at people on the streets in violation of the lockdown. Even with a lockdown in place, some cunts are still too ignorant/selfish/stupid to do the right thing despite the government trying to force them not to.
It’s time for some personal responsibility for thick or cuntish behaviour. It can’t always be the government’s fault.
Just as China are to blame for this getting out the rest of the world Governments are to blame for the disgraceful way it's being handled. People are people and are going to do stupid things. The Government dictates to us when and were we can drink what drugs we can and can't take along with many other things. I agree while being ideal a lockdown weeks ago would have set some people crazy but it's what is needed now and the longer they drag their heels making the decision the worse the situation is going is going to get.
It won't stop people being retarded and going to the beach but it will certainly drop the numbers. Sure even if 3/4's of the population caught this thing and died you would still have a certain type of person who would insist on going outside and doing whatever they want.
People will get a shock this time and we'll be better prepared next time. The countries that have done well like Japan had learnt from SARs and were prepared this time. We were all laughing about it here in Spain up until not long ago, and nobody's laughing now.
Yeah, it's the governments' job to account for people being selfish and stupid and to make laws and apply measures which reflect this. Doing otherwise is a failure of function on their part. At the latest, Leo's huff and puff announcement on Paddy's Day should have been a full lockdown announcement, no one's saying the country should have shut down over a "virus in China".
Quote from: Juggz on March 23, 2020, 11:44:49 AM
It's time for some personal responsibility for thick or cuntish behaviour. It can't always be the government's fault.
What do you suggest in the immediate? Etiquette classes? The government has to act based on the existence of cuntish behaviour. No point wishing away the human condition!
Quote from: Juggz on March 23, 2020, 11:09:32 AM
We need to get over blaming the government for the poor decisions of individuals. Unless you're a fucking moron, for some time it has been quite obvious what the correct course of action was and you shouldn't need the government to force you not to be a fucking thick.
some people need forcing I'm afraid....the thick is strong in those ones....
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 23, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
Yeah, it's the governments' job to account for people being selfish and stupid and to make laws and apply measures which reflect this. Doing otherwise is a failure of function on their part. At the latest, Leo's huff and puff announcement on Paddy's Day should have been a full lockdown announcement, no one's saying the country should have shut down over a "virus in China".
Completely agree, it's just more of the same, the Celtic Tiger 'fuck everyone I'll be grand' mentality. I'm as wary as anyone of giving too much power to governments, but right the individual needs to take a back seat, there will be plenty of time for indulgence and selfishness afterwards.
Heavy fines are the way to enforce this. These selfish dickheads only respond when their pocket is hit.
That's all well and good to say now that we have an idea of the scale and seriousness of the virus but if the government forced the country into immediate lockdown whenever there was talk of a virus, then the country would be fucked too. And nobody would take it seriously. It's a catch 22 scenario for them- damned whatever decision they make. And I'm not saying that as a loyal Leo supporter at all, I just think that this thing grew out of all proportion over a couple of weeks. Arguably the whole country should be on lock down now (arguably!), but three weeks ago this was still something that was going on far away from Ireland and they were monitoring its progress. What if it had fizzled out after two weeks and the whole country was in lockdown? Imagine the uproar. Incompetent, fear mongering, irresponsible etc etc... they had to let it play out a bit to see what they were dealing with. Shutting a country down that is still working its way out of the previous recession is a big decision and now, in hindsight, maybe yeah... but that's hindsight.
You're just making stuff up. On Paddy's Day, 6 days ago!, we all knew exactly what was coming.
If there had been a lockdown and Ireland had escaped catastrophe while the rest of the world descended into chaos, there would not have been uproar
Yet this has been an ongoing issue for a month and Ireland has had only 4 deaths from it in that time so maybe we don't need to lockdown to control it. Maybe social distancing is working. Not everyone is doing it, and that is stupid at this stage, but it's not like the population is being wiped out. I think that with lockdown in place for the past week we would still have had a couple of deaths of old people and those with compromised immune systems.
You haven't really done your research on this. With perfect social distancing the prediction for Ireland was 15000 cases by end of March. That was the prediction ON Paddy's Day. 1000 cases so far, a lot when you account for population. 4 dead but 29 in severe/critical condition.
Over the weekend, there were Starbucks in Bray, Limerick, elsewhere, packed. There were queues to chipper stalls at various places around the country, packed. The virus is still spreading good-o, be sure of it. Paddy's Day announcement should have been lock down, mandatory closing for all non essential business, especially public.
Just got word that my nephew's been referred for testing. He's 5 and asthmatic, having trouble catching his breath in bed, but otherwise OK. Could be nothing, but his dad's a porter in UCHG so who knows?
My aunt's still waiting for results on her test, around a week now.
Maybe the country should be on lockdown now and I'm certainly not excusing the retards who are ignoring the basics that the rest of us are trying to observe. Maybe he should have locked the country down last week. But it had been a news story for two or three weeks already at that stage, that's my point. The government had to see what they were actually dealing with before closing down the country. I'm sure that there would have to be all sorts of legal factors to take into consideration before taking that step, not to mention weighing up a fragile and recovering economy and the housing crisis etc. That is surely why things haven't completely shut down yet. I get the importance of what you are saying and maybe that drastic measure needs to be taken now in light of the growing situation but, again, think of the damage that is already being caused to countless businesses who haves been forced to close over the past week. Another month or two or three of this and we'll have another crisis to deal with. It's a balancing act and one I don't envy any leader to have to make.
Quote from: Carnage on March 23, 2020, 01:25:38 PM
Just got word that my nephew's been referred for testing. He's 5 and asthmatic, having trouble catching his breath in bed, but otherwise OK. Could be nothing, but his dad's a porter in UCHG so who knows?
My aunt's still waiting for results on her test, around a week now.
Shit man, hope the little guy get better and its not virus related. Must be horrendous sat there waiting on results and anyone thats been near you recently then waiting.. and so on down the line.
It's a shit situation to be in for them no doubt but this has been going on for longer than a few weeks. People just ignored it and still ignore the warnings and advice given. If anyone puts the country into a bad place it'll be because of them rather than the government. The spread of this is simple due to idiots as is the continuous spread of it.
A lockdown needs to be put in place and/or heavy fines that should literally implement it as an 'idiot fine'.
I'm sure it'd be a nice thing for a garda to say 'im fining you under the covid 19 act of being a fucking idiot" ::)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 23, 2020, 01:21:56 PM
1000 cases so far, a lot when you account for population.
And that's only the confirmed cases. The actual figure is bound to be higher because not everybody has been tested. I've been waiting 5 days for a test now, was told to expect a call between now and Wednesday. Somebody said their aunt is waiting a week for the results? So if I'm waiting a week to get tested, and a week to get results, that means that the 1000 figure is potentially 2 weeks behind what the actual number of positive cases are.
Some images from spain, such as below.. just showing how fucking dumb people are..
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90355169_10219675567513519_7329642847773130752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_eui2=AeFvg6nqMAZvoc7AynQ6cfaTzZRGiT7rODNxrps3ZpIt3EpyXB2PPZtlhGwa5o0nkN2ufWXwM1ltActFUa5tOkUiyD5_-S-4OrxFmGG17AQpqQ&_nc_ohc=Xz1x8Ajo8g0AX_Znw9u&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=02b0c43d5bdc2f27e4808c910144dcaf&oe=5E9CA8B9)
Apparently coming out of shops and just dumping them on the floor
Quote from: Giggles on March 23, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 23, 2020, 01:21:56 PM
1000 cases so far, a lot when you account for population.
And that's only the confirmed cases. The actual figure is bound to be higher because not everybody has been tested. I've been waiting 5 days for a test now, was told to expect a call between now and Wednesday. Somebody said their aunt is waiting a week for the results? So if I'm waiting a week to get tested, and a week to get results, that means that the 1000 figure is potentially 2 weeks behind what the actual number of positive cases are.
My brother was tested on Saturday and is expecting the results today.
Quote from: Giggles on March 23, 2020, 02:47:38 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 23, 2020, 01:21:56 PM
1000 cases so far, a lot when you account for population.
And that's only the confirmed cases. The actual figure is bound to be higher because not everybody has been tested. I've been waiting 5 days for a test now, was told to expect a call between now and Wednesday. Somebody said their aunt is waiting a week for the results? So if I'm waiting a week to get tested, and a week to get results, that means that the 1000 figure is potentially 2 weeks behind what the actual number of positive cases are.
All true, but comparatively speaking that aspect doesn't change much since there's essentially only South Korea who are getting even close to complete population testing. You can multiply the figures for most countries by about 10 if you want to try to account for every carrier, including mild (either so mild they don't report or so mild they just get told to stay at home untested if they do report, usually by phone) and no symptom individuals.
I wrote a big post last night and deleted it after because I suppose I didn't want to come across as a hysterical oul wan.
But..
I estimate early February a Chinese lad I train with spent an hour after class spilling his guts out to me. A normally cool and stonyfaced lad, he was jittery as fuck, close to hysterical at times, telling me all about the virus as I told him it was all grand and 'shur amn't I a charming Irish lad and shur we know it'll work out, begodandgegorrah'. So he stopped coming training a few days later, orders from the folks back home, he's 25 and they tend to respect the family's wishes etc. I moseyed along on my way.
Now 6/7 weeks later we're going through the exact same thing he was talking about. It's actually freaky how accurate his predictions were.
I have a mate who had it last week, his mother is in hospital with it. Lots of them stories. They started prioritising people who they would try to save the other day...family of man with down syndrome told he wouldn't be prioritised...lots of heartwarming stories like that.
The army has built a makeshift hospital in our hometown that can hold thousands of people. 7 of the 9 floors of the local(massive) hospital are dedicated to coronavirus. A workmate of a friend has lost 7 of her wider family to the virus..mostly older, but including her younger brother(I have no idea of they have some underlying issue in the family). Videos of lads in space suits walking into gaffs just up the street and loading a coffin into the van alongside the other ones..and I don't even live in Madrid anymore. I live in a city of 300k people.
So, I'm really hoping our lack of population in Ireland will help but then you read about the young lad who was.meant to.be self-isolating, got bored, met his friends and all 5 had to be rushed to hospital with one suffering a severe athsma attack. Some people need to be fucked in the Liffey.
Quote from: mickO)))
My brother was tested on Saturday and is expecting the results today.
Well that's good, hopefully my results are a bit faster than 1 week.
https://www.todayfm.com/news/gardai-called-dozens-attend-house-party-longford-987462?fbclid=IwAR0BbtuKPxisBYPgP1mPMGJsqhTOoDPt0Vr2ER15oxCAvESyWSMCZkodP8M
Told to go home and that#s it.. these fucks should have all been fined on the fucking spot instead of just lettin em off. Fuckin mongs
Quote from: Aborted on March 23, 2020, 02:48:33 PM
Some images from spain, such as below.. just showing how fucking dumb people are..
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90355169_10219675567513519_7329642847773130752_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_eui2=AeFvg6nqMAZvoc7AynQ6cfaTzZRGiT7rODNxrps3ZpIt3EpyXB2PPZtlhGwa5o0nkN2ufWXwM1ltActFUa5tOkUiyD5_-S-4OrxFmGG17AQpqQ&_nc_ohc=Xz1x8Ajo8g0AX_Znw9u&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=02b0c43d5bdc2f27e4808c910144dcaf&oe=5E9CA8B9)
Apparently coming out of shops and just dumping them on the floor
Same type of shit happening here. My mother was at a shop a couple days ago and said that people were just leaving the store provided gloves in the trolleys when they leaving. The sheer thoughtlessness of some cunts is staggering.
Italy overtook China's death toll 4 days ago. Looks like they'll have doubled it by tomorrow.
The continent is really fucked, no doubt about it. Lockdown makes sense with the numbers they are seeing. Being on an island might be the thing that helps us.
It could have been :-\ Seriously, get ready for the daily shocks, they're just around the corner.
Well MacDonalds is closing so that's the first real shockwave.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 23, 2020, 06:10:48 PM
The continent is really fucked, no doubt about it. Lockdown makes sense with the numbers they are seeing. Being on an island might be the thing that helps us.
It should be the thing that helps us but when you hear there is still planes galore flying in to Ireland every day you wonder have we fucked that piece of fortune away?
And the queues there! If ever there was evidence of stupidity.
Queues right down the dual carriageway in Drogheda this afternoon for Mc Donald's. No doubt the announcement to close was made by Mc Donalds hoping for this kind of response they could have easily just shut without notice.
I'v e always known people in general were fairly stupid, but seeing all of the people in this country who have zero respect for the lives and livelihoods of others is really disheartening. I imagine most people on here have been trying to do the right thing in general since the beginning, and I truly believe we could have avoided locking down completely by taking the correct precautions as individuals but there are always loads of cunts who are too clever to look at what is happening everywhere else and cop the fuck on.
On the testing side of things I was reading of the Irish company who have developed a pinprick test that can give a result in 15 minutes by eye. That would be a game changer regarding testing and I hope it can get rolled out as quickly as possible. Theoretically, the whole population could be tested and isolated accordingly very quickly and efficiently with something like that. From what I read from 10 days ago, they said it was ready to be delivered to Irish hospitals in 10 days, so I expect that will come along very soon.
I haven't been keeping up with figures here or anywhere else the last few days other than looking for good news stories, as I feel that beyond doing the right thing as much as we can we are pretty powerless here and it's depressing to think about the future at the minute
Big bawdy Boris is making an announcement at 8.30pm. Shut down imminent?
... yes
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/boris-johnson-orders-uk-lockdown-to-be-enforced-by-police
10 lads standing on a high wall, the first lad jumps off and breaks his legs. 2nd lad the same, 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th same again. Surely one would think, having seen what happened to the last 9 lads the 10th wouldn't jump off, he'd be smarter. No. He jumps off and also breaks his legs.
That is pretty much how I feel about all of those clever people who can't see what is happening everywhere else and won't try their best to avoid the same thing happening to them. So depressing because I love my (admittedly limited) freedom and can't stand the thoughts of it being taken away. I also can't stand the thoughts of lives being lost needlessly due to the stupidity and ignorance of others, but here we are. Fuck sake. Why did any other country not think they would end up in the same place as Italy?
Get it into ye:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
Quote from: Juggz on March 23, 2020, 11:44:49 AM
My Italian lady has just sent me a video of Italian mayors shouting at people on the streets in violation of the lockdown.
Good powerful video that. The flamethrower and barber comments were brilliant.
On a positive note, I drove past a teenage couple sitting on a wall "together" last evening but they were a good 2m apart. Of course around the corner I saw 3 teen lads walking very closely together to undo the good vibes!
Britain waking up far too late, closed the schools eventually on Friday and the other side of the same weekend go full lockdown. This after allowing mass gatherings to continue for ages, eg Madrid CL fans, life gamblers at Cheltenham. Of course we played our in part in going to both events...
I know of people still going on holidays to known hotspots until very recently. Some people still visiting their cousins several times in the past few days, kids of split parents staying in 4 houses (parents and grandparents on both sides because "they're young and strong" apparently - my hole) and then the same kids mixing with others in their estate. Metal buddy of mine visiting his parents last night "but only for a little while", despite both of them having underlying health problems and him after being with plague carrying kids for the weekend. All because we're untouchables apparently. Christ on a bike, the positive vibe from that teenage couple must have been a mirage. This will be the year that breaks The Darwin Awards...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 23, 2020, 11:37:22 PM
Get it into ye:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
NO.. FUVK OFF :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
Arlene reckons people should follow the new restrictions in order to save lives, which is nice, I suppose. I eagerly await her autobiography "Yes I Can, If Boris Johnson Says It's OK".
Speaking of fuckwits! I am literally speechless!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/24/older-people-would-rather-die-than-let-covid-19-lockdown-harm-us-economy-texas-official-dan-patrick
The Olympics have finally been cancelled. I dunno what kinda retards they have making the calls that it took them this long.
Justin Trudeau and the Liberals have a minority Government in Canada. The Liberals and all the other parties agreed to a bill to help people out who are in trouble now. They are suppose to pass the legislation right now but it came out late last night that Trudeau snuck in a clause that was not discussed with the other parties that his party will gain majority power when it comes to spending, tax etc. for the next two years. What a scumbag using this crises to his own advantage and still all the Canadian MSM are reporting on is Trump.
It's almost like he is some sort of successful politician.
No different to Varadkar playing politics in the middle of all this, withbhus declaration that he's willing to form a national government but with the exclusion of Sinn Féin. An empty suit, size: cunt.
2 wankers destroying 2 different countries. In Canada even if you have majority power spending and taxation still has to be passed and voted on through the parliament. He is basically trying to rewrite the constitution. Was asked about it this morning and did his little dance were he regurgitates a rehearsed answer that doesn't address the question at all then ran back inside his house and won't be seen again until tomorrow.
Quote from: Carnage on March 24, 2020, 03:57:34 PM
No different to Varadkar playing politics in the middle of all this, withbhus declaration that he's willing to form a national government but with the exclusion of Sinn Féin. An empty suit, size: cunt.
Jesus, that one had slipped by me. Outrageous fucking behaviour.
Said the same thing today when asked after the press conference. Despicable beheaviour.
Quote from: Aborted on March 23, 2020, 01:38:41 PM
Quote from: Carnage on March 23, 2020, 01:25:38 PM
Just got word that my nephew's been referred for testing. He's 5 and asthmatic, having trouble catching his breath in bed, but otherwise OK. Could be nothing, but his dad's a porter in UCHG so who knows?
My aunt's still waiting for results on her test, around a week now.
Shit man, hope the little guy get better and its not virus related. Must be horrendous sat there waiting on results and anyone thats been near you recently then waiting.. and so on down the line.
Cheers. Called out to the house earlier, spoke to them through the window. He's fine since, on steroids and his inhaler etc. It's a precautionary thing at this stage, just waiting for the test, which could take up to a week plus the same wait for the results.
Neither of my sisters can go into work as they've been in contact with him, which is a (financial) pain but necessary, obviously. Fingers crossed.
Still no results for my aunt.
Anyone else affected like this? I hope you're all coping well. (Trying not to sound all Metal Family bro about it.)
Yes my brother was suppose to get results yesterday still no word from them.
Unsurprising with the backlog, and health service employees are (rightfly) getting priority.
Went for a stroll when I got in from work and I've never seen so many guards in Maynooth. Three vans doing laps of the town.
Girl living with me just telling me about how in one of the other stores connected to her work.. a guy there bought a cheap flight to the UK (10er return) and went there the weekend just gone.
Calls in to the job asking if its ok to come in to work after that..
There ya have it lads...
There you have it, someone somewhere might have done something apparently.
My missus is an ICU nurse, wasn't feeling great so went in to work to get tested and they said the results are ready in 24-36 hours.
Apparently they're setting up dedicated areas in all the hospitals just for staff, and hoping it will have the knock on effect of getting results for the regular public earlier as they won't be spending time sorting out prioritising the front line workers
I'll have been waiting a week for my test tomorrow. Still no word other than a text I received yesterday to say that I'm in a que. The most annoying part is that I signed off the dole just before this happened. Now I can't go to work, and the dole just went up to €350. Double sting! But at least I still have my health and nobody close to me is infected. Yet.
Ths dole are operating on a pay first, ask questions later basis, as everyone's in need of it at the moment and if they process everything by the book it'll take months to get through. Ring them and see what they say but I gather it's a fairly straightforward online process.
If yiz can't go to work then surely you're eligible, regardless of when you started?
The dole has been pushed up to 350 a week that's not bad.
Quote from: mickO))) on March 24, 2020, 11:51:51 PM
The dole has been pushed up to 350 a week that's not bad.
The bigger the payouts now, the more years of higher USCs we'll be paying. This unfortunately, isn't free money from our beloved government.
Hey I made a little coronavirus quiz for kids if anyone has some of those (kids I mean)
Hope you're all still alive anyway
https://www.doublemarvellous.com/coronavirus/ (https://www.doublemarvellous.com/coronavirus/)
Quote from: mickO))) on March 24, 2020, 11:51:51 PM
The dole has been pushed up to 350 a week that's not bad.
that's just for the newer people temporarily laid off due to the virus, not for the people not working before the shit hit the fan. Thankfully not rewarding those that insist on making up the "natural" rate of unemployment 365 days of the year every year. It would only be encouraging some of these people to keep doing this corona challenge bullshit...
Quote from: Barrytron on March 25, 2020, 08:20:16 AM
Hey I made a little coronavirus quiz for kids if anyone has some of those (kids I mean)
Hope you're all still alive anyway
https://www.doublemarvellous.com/coronavirus/ (https://www.doublemarvellous.com/coronavirus/)
Good job. Not so sure though on the text about screaming around the house, telling kids that parents might be worried about jobs and being stressed doesn't sound like a good idea to me and transfers anxiety to kids. They could do without that stress on top of the bummer of not being able to play with their friends.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 25, 2020, 07:51:37 AM
Quote from: mickO))) on March 24, 2020, 11:51:51 PM
The dole has been pushed up to 350 a week that's not bad.
The bigger the payouts now, the more years of higher USCs we'll be paying. This unfortunately, isn't free money from our beloved government.
Yeap,cv19 is going to be very costly.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 25, 2020, 07:51:37 AM
Quote from: mickO))) on March 24, 2020, 11:51:51 PM
The dole has been pushed up to 350 a week that's not bad.
The bigger the payouts now, the more years of higher USCs we'll be paying. This unfortunately, isn't free money from our beloved government.
This gives the government the excuse not to cut the USC now - originally the charge was only supposed to be a stopgap during the last recession. Its here to stay for the foreseeable future
That's still gonna be around in 10 years.
If they hadn't gotten rid of it by now, it was never going to go. Now it'll rise, if anything.
Quote from: Carnage on March 25, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
If they hadn't gotten rid of it by now, it was never going to go. Now it'll rise, if anything.
Hell, look at the PMPA Levy, when after years those debts were paid off, rather than scrap it, the government just turned it into a stamp duty on policies.
Same will happen with the levy for that crooked bastard Quinn.
As someone pointed out to me today, that few billion from Apple would cover the cost of all of this a couple of times over. But no, we will pay.
Nephew now doesn't require testing based on the new criteria. He's fine since, but that means nothing, as we know. The upside is that his mother and my other sister can go back to work, but for all we know all 3 could be carrying it. Interesting is that his dad, who's a porter in UCHG, was told to come in to work regardless, as they're already under that much strain. Strange times.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 25, 2020, 07:47:09 PM
As someone pointed out to me today, that few billion from Apple would cover the cost of all of this a couple of times over. But no, we will pay.
Yeah what's the buzz with them just sitting on the Apple dosh?
It's in a holding account while the appeal goes through the courts. It'll be years before it's released either way - unless they drop the case, in which event it'll be available. Not a chance that they'll do that, though.
Quote from: Carnage on March 25, 2020, 09:06:06 PM
It's in a holding account while the appeal goes through the courts.
(https://themanthebheastscanttame.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/download1.jpg)
New criteria is so stupid will give false hope to people, more will be going around now infecting others and Leo will spin the sudden drop in numbers to say he is doing a great job.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 25, 2020, 07:47:09 PM
As someone pointed out to me today, that few billion from Apple would cover the cost of all of this a couple of times over. But no, we will pay.
Some of those bankers have enough wealth to cure world poverty and still have plenty left over. I see big changes in the future the world is not gonna last if we are left paying back money to these assholes for the rest of our lives things were already bad enough as it was before this with the way things are structured working 5 days a week for peanuts putting peoples stress levels up to the point that it's causing them to develop major diseases etc. all so the few elite can have even more. People are eventually going to say enough is enough.
Depending on how long this virus lasts and bands are grounded from touring I wonder will there be a surge in new albums released next year?
I've heard of a couple of bands delaying releases alright (Hatebreed's the only one I can bring to mind), I would assume to tie in with the resumption of touring.
Quote from: mickO))) on March 25, 2020, 09:16:44 PM
New criteria is so stupid will give false hope to people, more will be going around now infecting others and Leo will spin the sudden drop in numbers to say he is doing a great job.
Why will there be a sudden drop in numbers? Sounds like they're only testing for people who have the worst symptoms, therefore wouldn't the numbers actually rise, as I'd imagine they're still going to carry out as many tests per day as they can?
A drop in the increase of numbers.
https://twitter.com/rte/status/1242945622115745795
Wonder who at RTE thought this was a good idea?
:-\
Anyone had to go for a test got an idea how long it takes to get a call? My GP said they just refer people on but didn't know what the waiting times are like
Quote from: Trev on March 26, 2020, 02:02:16 PM
Anyone had to go for a test got an idea how long it takes to get a call? My GP said they just refer people on but didn't know what the waiting times are like
My daughter was put into isolation last Thursday by her doctor (had a chesty cough for over 3 weeks and felt like shit). She booked her for a test there and then. She suffers with Sarcoidosis, so is considered vulnerable.
I work in a large company (400 people) so I took off work and went into isolation with her.
She got a text on Monday evening saying she was on the test waiting list and to await further instructions. I contacted my doctor to go on the test list last Thursday too when I left work.
She phoned her doctor today and her doctor asked her if she had any other symptoms along with her chest since last week. She said she had nothing else, just the rattling chest. Doc said she won't be tested. Waste of time, seven whole days.
Could be loads walking around infected and passing it on. That's a bit worrying tbh...
I'm back to work tomorrow and my daughter will keep on self isolating for the foreseeable....
At least the weather was nice. Got loads done around the house and garden. :laugh:
That is worrying tbh.
Today I found out that the death toll figures for France are hospitalized deaths only, not including deaths in retirement homes, at home, etc., since they're not conducting post-mortems as they are in Italy and Spain. Reckoned that factor alone could almost double the current figure here from 1300 dead (as of last night). Think it's the same in Germany too.
Christ, that's grim.
My wife got confirmed positive and I've been feeling run down so got on to my GP and got referred. Just got a call from the HSE there, went through my details, and told me someone else would be calling to go through my symptoms, then after that another call about a test. Good to know that even in a pandemic there's still extra pointless layers with the civil service
Quote from: Blizzard Beast on March 25, 2020, 10:20:13 PM
Depending on how long this virus lasts and bands are grounded from touring I wonder will there be a surge in new albums released next year?
Nine Inch Nails released 2 albums (or 2 parts of 1 album) for free this morning. Said they had been working on it the last while. As regards other bands, I imagine a lot of them will start working on new material to take their mind off things.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 26, 2020, 03:20:06 PM
Quote from: Trev on March 26, 2020, 02:02:16 PM
Anyone had to go for a test got an idea how long it takes to get a call? My GP said they just refer people on but didn't know what the waiting times are like
She suffers with Sarcoidosis, so is considered vulnerable.
That's the underlying condition I have as well that I mentioned a few pages back which is why I am terrified of catching it. Mine has been flaring up since mid December and only really started going away late last week.
Quote from: Trev on March 26, 2020, 02:02:16 PM
Anyone had to go for a test got an idea how long it takes to get a call? My GP said they just refer people on but didn't know what the waiting times are like
My old man (mid-60s) went for a test yesterday. He'd been waiting since last Monday week. My sister made him call his GP because about 2 - 3 weeks before that he'd had a heavy head cold, cough, fever, shakes etc. and he has a minor issue with his heart and blood-pressure. The same fella runs 10 - 15k every day. He was loathe to ring the doctor and said that it was fine but he got fed up of the nagging.
Went down to Páirc Uí Chaoimh yesterday firstthing and did the test, the guy there reckoned it'd be another 8 - 10 days before he'd hear anything.
This is a bollix for him - he retired recently, he lives on his own (well... with a fucking idiot of a dog) and used to love getting out helping his neighbours or taking my nephew after school. Or just even meeting me for a coffee of a Saturday. He's been self isolating since March 12th - the only thing that he actively watches on telly is soccer.
He hasn't lost his sense of humour though. He rang me last night;
"I heard the off-licenses are still open."
"They are, yeah."
"I might go back on the booze. Just until this is over mind you."
"Eh. OK."
"And maybe a few months more, can't be too careful."
He's dead right.
____________________________________________________________
A small group of us are going out to a fellow biker's house shortly to pay our respects to him and his son for his wife who died yesterday from a 2 year battle with cancer.
We'll gather in his garden and converse with them through their living room window.
Her family are from Wales and obviously can't come and grieve for their daughter/sister properly.
A tragic case made even more tragic by the circumstances we find ourselves in these times.
My young lad rang me today, he wants to go back to school because he has way more homework than usual and his mother is driving him up the walls. I was just joking with a colleague in the spin into work a few weeks ago that it'd be 'some laugh' if they closed the place down over this Coronavirus yoke... I'd gladly pay a months salary to get back to normal, now. Stuck in the apartment 24/7 with the bird is causing...tension. Exercise, routine, diet have all deteriorated significantly despite best intentions. I'm starting to understand how the long-term unemployed waste away into apathy and time wasting. I have to sort myself out rapid.
My mother (60) is a heavy smoker and has a couple of conditions which make her quite vulnerable. I have a granny still alive who had one foot in the grave at a few points over the last year, very worrying. It's sobering to let your mind wander to worst case scenario direction.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 26, 2020, 04:25:32 PM
Quote from: Blizzard Beast on March 25, 2020, 10:20:13 PM
Depending on how long this virus lasts and bands are grounded from touring I wonder will there be a surge in new albums released next year?
Nine Inch Nails released 2 albums (or 2 parts of 1 album) for free this morning. Said they had been working on it the last while. As regards other bands, I imagine a lot of them will start working on new material to take their mind off things.
Fair play to them must check that out.
6 weeks minimum lock down in France.
Strangely positive buzz going out the front door and clapping and hooting with everyone else there.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 26, 2020, 08:08:46 PM
Strangely positive buzz going out the front door and clapping and hooting with everyone else there.
Well in fairness, new NIN is a rare thing!
Joking aside, have I missed some good news?
There was an 'event' where people were asked to go out and cheer and clap for a minute to show appreciation for the nurses and doctors working on the frontline at the moment (with the unspoken addition of cheering for 'Pretty Hate Machine' and 'The Downward Spiral'). Sounds a bit corny but it was a positive gesture that was welcome amidst the endless misery of the news.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 26, 2020, 08:21:21 PM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 26, 2020, 08:08:46 PM
Strangely positive buzz going out the front door and clapping and hooting with everyone else there.
Well in fairness, new NIN is a rare thing!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: thanks for that!
Ah right, sound. Sure I suppose anything to raise the morale is badly needed. I hadn't heard about it but I was sitting out in my car smoking fags and listening to tunes at the time and I can report that no one around here was doing it. Pity, I'd have joined in.
Speaking of endless news-related misery I was talking to an ould fella the other day and he said he turned off his radio because the constant updates of figures was like an exercise in demoralization. I agree. I stopped it myself last week and my mental health dramatically improved. Not taking a burying my head in the sand attitude, I do hear an odd update but had to stop tracking it case by case. Cheering on good things in general is probably the way to go, if I can't physically do anything to change the situation.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285
I have been doing a bit of digging around and I had the idea of looking at certain things. What do any of the more learned among ye think of this?
Quote from: astfgyl on March 26, 2020, 10:36:38 PM
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285
I have been doing a bit of digging around and I had the idea of looking at certain things. What do any of the more learned among ye think of this?
They're over 8000 dead now in far less than the length of a single season and with a lockdown that was imposed weeks ago. That figure includes 30 health staff. All we have to do is imagine the figure had no measures been taken and it's easy enough to see that any of those single season figures would be eclipsed. They may yet be even with the lockdown.
I'm not doubting the figures at all, or how bad it would be without a lockdown in place over there.
I just noticed that Italy in particular has had an extremely high excess death rate in the years mentioned in that study there, and it seems to be that they have a disproportionate rate this time, too. Just what anyone makes of that. And I see that the study is for ILI, not strictly Influenza. Has this been growing in Italy for a lot longer than we know of? Is this almost the point that the German virologist was making in the video you posted a few pages back? Have to put the disclaimer in that I have no conspiracy or hidden agenda thing I'm trying to get at, just wondering about stuff
From the page: "Highlights
•
In the winter seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17, an estimated average of 5,290,000 ILI cases occurred in Italy, corresponding to an incidence of 9%.
•
More than 68,000 deaths attributable to flu epidemics were estimated in the study period.
•
Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly."
Taking a winter season to be roughly 4 months (might be more, I'm guessing at that), and the study period being 4 seasons, that is 17,000 deaths per season, and 4250 for each month of the season. That is a lot for something that there is a vaccine for. And the study does mention that their vaccination rate for vulnerable groups is low when compared to other countries, but not a massive amount lower.
Should I infer from that then that however bad Italy is, it wouldn't be as bad in the rest of Europe? I wonder what the figures for Spain are for the same thing. I must look them up.
I dunno. As I said in response to the German video, he doesn't account for the health services response to this; in every country where it has it they are devastated and speak of having never seen anything like it, not just in Italy. Spain will have caught up with them in a few days, France too. We won't have clearer answers for months.
Here is another highlight from the study. It seems they have seen something like it: "In recent years, Italy has been registering peaks in death rates, particularly among the elderly during the winter season. A mortality rate of 10.7 per 1,000 inhabitants was observed in the winter season 2014/2015 (more than 375,000 deaths in absolute terms), corresponding to an estimated 54,000 excess deaths (+9.1%) as compared to 2014 (Signorelli and Odone, 2016), representing the highest reported mortality rate since the Second World War in Italy (UN, 2019). Although the above-described excess mortality created concern among researchers, health authorities and public health experts, it has been challenging to identify its determinants (Signorelli and Odone, 2016)."
Look, I'm no expert and I had to read some parts of it 2 or 3 times to get the idea of it, but it's certainly clear there has been something else going on in Italy for quite a while, and this current situation is highlighting it. It seems that the year on year increase there is not quite what it seems to be at the moment. Of course the fact that they are locked in to their houses can't be ignored in all of this.
When this situation really started to snowball, I was mostly watching the Diamond Princess to try get a clear picture of how this goes in a situation where the infection kicks off in a closed setting. Looking at it now again after a week of leaving it off, it makes interesting reading. Not forgetting the outcome would be affected by strict quarantining of passengers at an early stage.
The massive difference between the Italian figure and the German one has to have something going on with it as well, even allowing for the discrepancies in reporting methods. Is it a genetic thing? Are people of Mediterranean descent more susceptible to it than those of Germanic descent? Is it something in their diet or levels of physical activity as a nation?
Quote from: astfgyl on March 27, 2020, 12:00:24 AM
Here is another highlight from the study. It seems they have seen something like it: "In recent years, Italy has been registering peaks in death rates, particularly among the elderly during the winter season. A mortality rate of 10.7 per 1,000 inhabitants was observed in the winter season 2014/2015 (more than 375,000 deaths in absolute terms), corresponding to an estimated 54,000 excess deaths (+9.1%) as compared to 2014 (Signorelli and Odone, 2016), representing the highest reported mortality rate since the Second World War in Italy (UN, 2019). Although the above-described excess mortality created concern among researchers, health authorities and public health experts, it has been challenging to identify its determinants (Signorelli and Odone, 2016)."
Look, I'm no expert and I had to read some parts of it 2 or 3 times to get the idea of it, but it's certainly clear there has been something else going on in Italy for quite a while, and this current situation is highlighting it. It seems that the year on year increase there is not quite what it seems to be at the moment. Of course the fact that they are locked in to their houses can't be ignored in all of this.
When this situation really started to snowball, I was mostly watching the Diamond Princess to try get a clear picture of how this goes in a situation where the infection kicks off in a closed setting. Looking at it now again after a week of leaving it off, it makes interesting reading. Not forgetting the outcome would be affected by strict quarantining of passengers at an early stage.
The massive difference between the Italian figure and the German one has to have something going on with it as well, even allowing for the discrepancies in reporting methods. Is it a genetic thing? Are people of Mediterranean descent more susceptible to it than those of Germanic descent? Is it something in their diet or levels of physical activity as a nation?
Well hasn't it been well documented that Italy has a higher ratio of people who are over 65 in comparison to most countries ? And they have a higher ratio of smokers too.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 26, 2020, 09:08:28 PMSpeaking of endless news-related misery I was talking to an ould fella the other day and he said he turned off his radio because the constant updates of figures was like an exercise in demoralization. I agree. I stopped it myself last week and my mental health dramatically improved. Not taking a burying my head in the sand attitude, I do hear an odd update but had to stop tracking it case by case. Cheering on good things in general is probably the way to go, if I can't physically do anything to change the situation.
I'd say that is the best option. Everyone has been given the instructions and procedures to follow to help prevent the spread of the virus, just watching the new all day will just force a feeling of powerlessness. Twenty-four hour news pretty much breeds this, it's the feeling of always having to be switched on to a threat and it does nobody's anxiety any good. Check in with the news once a day or less, keep in contact with friends and family and talk about other things and just keep following the advice. I was in a hole with it myself and felt horrific, but I made the same decision as you, focusing on the things that I have within my control.
Quote from: Bogmetaller on March 27, 2020, 08:53:52 AM
Well hasn't it been well documented that Italy has a higher ratio of people who are over 65 in comparison to most countries ? And they have a higher ratio of smokers too.
Yeah it has to be fair. I was sort of thinking that their astonishingly high figures might have some of what was identified by that study caught up in it. They were at a loss to explain it back then as well, just what exactly was the cause in the massive increase, despite it being well documented about their high number of aged residents. I also have no idea of the answer but it certainly could be as simple as being an age related thing.
Just had another thought there. Could it be the case that this virus originated in Italy and has been increasing year on year there and it is China who were infected due to their textile industry links vs the other way round? As far as I know the test was invented in Wuhan, but that wouldn't necessarily mean the virus originated there. Just a thought
No mystery. Italy is a very full-on physical contact place. When people meet they kiss each other on both cheeks, there is lots of touching and embracing. It's a massive part of normal life. If a virus spreads through contact, Italy is the place it'll happen.
Fair enough. I've never been to Italy and I don't know much about it. Did you have a read of that study I quoted a few posts back? I suppose the numbers there in those years could have been due to the same physical contact thing and just that nobody thought of it. Seems plausible enough but still doesn't account for the increases in those years of the study.
Before I go on I have to say again that I'm not taking any sort of conspiracy type angle with any of this, just wondering about stuff like if Italy have had this massive excess deaths problem for years, could investigating that problem be the key to reducing their number of Covid-19 deaths?
I'm trying to word what I say about it very carefully for fear of being seen as some sort of holocaust denier when I'm not doubting the facts of any of this at all regarding death rates or the devastating effects on health services worldwide. Or for that matter, the devastating effects on actual real people versus reading it as statistics. Like there is someone on this very board whose wife has it and I can only imagine how worrying something like that is so I have to keep reiterating that I'm not trying to cheapen it in any way or say it's a load of nothing or that it is exaggerated in any way at all. It's extremely likely that this will have an effect on most of us on a personal level beyond having to read some extra books or staying out of the pub and missing a few gigs. I understand it is a very serious situation.
Boris Johnson has tested positive. What's Paddy Power offering on him being one of the strong part of the herd??
Till Lindemann tested positive for it. 57, look strong as an ox hopefully will power through it.
Jaysus that test is rough, feels like the swab goes halfway through your head
Quote from: Aborted on March 27, 2020, 03:35:13 PM
Till Lindemann tested positive for it. 57, look strong as an ox hopefully will power through it.
Damn it's saying he's in ICU.
"Out of danger" I'm seeing
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 27, 2020, 05:53:30 PM
"Out of danger" I'm seeing
Aye, article I was reading was from earlier in the day.
Saw Italy had over 900 deaths today, truly shit. Leo on the news there saying we'll probably hit ICU capacity soon enough. Daily cases for Ireland to be at 8:45 tonight. Nurse friend told me there some clusters found in Ireland coming from nursing homes so fearing the worst about that.
The HSE are now sending out text messages to people who have already been tested that if they do not meet the criteria they may not get any results and their tests will be dumped. What a crock of shit this is turning into a real shit show.
Apparently Ireland is showing a similar trend to the way Italy went just at a slower rate.
Yesterday showed how bonkers hyper capitalism is ->
A record 3.28 million Americans file claims for unemployment while the USA stock markets had their biggest 3 day rally since 1931. Ryanair operated 390 flights a few days ago to vs almost 0 yesterday....shares up nearly 25% since Monday.
My mom is in a nursing home, they've shut door almost a month now id say. But I can only imagine someone being careless and given the condition a lot of people in there are in it would be hopeless.
News reports of people returning to Canada and hiding their symptoms just to get back into the country. One girl who didn't want to be identified and had returned from Europe this week think it was Italy or somewhere is certain she has it. All she was asked when she landed in Canada was do you have a cough or fever she said no then was handed a sheet with self isolation instructions and told to go on her way.
People out of work also facing a 2+ month wait to get any sort of payment.
I'm looking forward to the likes of Blathnaid from nationwide being interviewed on the late late show about how they managed to get through the Coronavirus. It's bad people are dying I get that but some cunts are dining out on this
Miriam O'Callaghan presenting it tonight, as if it couldn't get any worse. Tubridy has a cough and is self-isolating. Surprised he didn't do it from his garden shed like Claire Byrne.
Or his porn layer, our next guest is Nathan Carter and he is going to Tell us how he overcame depression as he was the only one in his family not to get the virus and now has survivors guilt
Can't wait
Did he just quote Terminator!
The few points I got while taking some notes
Travel to work allowed but only health care etc
Only to go out to shop for food
To attend medical appointments
Vital family reasons - elderly/child care
Exercise - max 2km max from house but maintain distance
Farming purposes
Visits to hospitals etc for prisons cancelled outside of compassionate grounds
Shielding/cocooning for people over 70
No gatherings in the house/parties
100% it's going to be a lot longer than that and although expected and I even said they should do it.. just got a very uneasy feeling about the whole thing.
Was bound to happen after last weekend.
They will more than likely extend it.
Quote from: Aborted on March 27, 2020, 08:47:07 PMjust got a very uneasy feeling about the whole thing.
Same here. The mental health is suffering a fair amount from all of this. Might just have to disconnect from the news.
Is it that different from what's going on already? And surely most people with a lick of common sense are at it?
Quote from: Ducky on March 27, 2020, 10:17:27 PM
Is it that different from what's going on already? And surely most people with a lick of common sense are at it?
No, i've been doing it already myself in the house and have only left to go 5 mins up the road to a small tesco express for food and that's it.
For some reason I just felt a bit odd. I guess I'm worrying more and about my dad who lives by himself back home and how he is.. ie not listening for stocking up a bit of food and not leaving the house non stop. And my mum in the care home.
It brings you down alright. Had a few hours work today, I was on my own with the doors & gates shut and didn't have to deal with añyone, got a shitload done, a lot of it outside in the sunshine, and felt great for the first time in a couple of weeks with thoughts of an end in sight, and then...
I'm wallowing, but I realise a lot of you have a lot more to worry about, be it family, finances, etc. Hope ye're all managing OK.
Quote from: Yolo Swaggins on March 27, 2020, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: Aborted on March 27, 2020, 08:47:07 PMjust got a very uneasy feeling about the whole thing.
Same here. The mental health is suffering a fair amount from all of this. Might just have to disconnect from the news.
I'd highly recommend it. Anything you need to know you will hear from somewhere. I did it a week or more ago and it did me no end of good. I mean, you know what it is you can do, and all of the rest of it is out of your hands so try not to absorb too much of it. If you're anything like me it will wreck the head off you checking in over and over.
Edit: And here I am, on a forum talking about it! I'm so weak
Regarding the locking down it should have been done weeks ago and anyone in their right mind would have been doing it anyway without being told. I'm lucky there are loads of fields around where I am, I can take off into them any time I like. I just hope everyone else doesn't have the same idea..
I finished my job 2 weeks ago and don't start my new one in Dublin till the 6th. I'll be doing it from home for now and thankfully have that option.
The novelty of time off watching movies, playing games etc has well passed.
Thankfully have a huge back garden so going to start trying to do something there just to get out of the house a bit more.
Actually offered to start a week early for free
Have to say, the memes etc are quite good way to add a bit of levity to the whole thing. No harm once you still understand the serious of everything
There has been some serious memeing.
"Jussie Smoulette claims two Chinese men in mags hats coughed on him"
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
The panic buying started up again in full force.. these people are complete fucking idiots.
My dad whos in his 70's live in Clonmel alone literally across the road from Dunnes and he's not to go there etc with the new lockdown in place. I've called almost every store in the town and NONE deliver groceries bar tescos which is booked up till the 17th of April!!!
Insane, thankfully the local guards are doing shopping/deliveries for the elderly
I just can't get over peoples mindset during this
Quote from: Aborted on March 28, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
The panic buying started up again in full force.. these people are complete fucking idiots.
My dad whos in his 70's live in Clonmel alone literally across the road from Dunnes and he's not to go there etc with the new lockdown in place. I've called almost every store in the town and NONE deliver groceries bar tescos which is booked up till the 17th of April!!!
Insane, thankfully the local guards are doing shopping/deliveries for the elderly
I just can't get over peoples mindset during this
Agreed. In doing do the weekly shopping as I do every Saturday morning at 8am, and the place (normally empty apart from a few regulars) is packed. And all the regulars meeting each other, and wondering why, since the shops aren't going to close or run out, these cunts just get their groceries at their normal time. Then discover the shop has stopped letting people in until people go out, on a one by one case. Walk outside, see the sheep lined up all the way round the car park.
Fucking morons.
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on March 28, 2020, 02:10:35 PM
Quote from: Aborted on March 28, 2020, 01:14:10 PM
The panic buying started up again in full force.. these people are complete fucking idiots.
My dad whos in his 70's live in Clonmel alone literally across the road from Dunnes and he's not to go there etc with the new lockdown in place. I've called almost every store in the town and NONE deliver groceries bar tescos which is booked up till the 17th of April!!!
Insane, thankfully the local guards are doing shopping/deliveries for the elderly
I just can't get over peoples mindset during this
Agreed. In doing do the weekly shopping as I do every Saturday morning at 8am, and the place (normally empty apart from a few regulars) is packed. And all the regulars meeting each other, and wondering why, since the shops aren't going to close or run out, these cunts just get their groceries at their normal time. Then discover the shop has stopped letting people in until people go out, on a one by one case. Walk outside, see the sheep lined up all the way round the car park.
Fucking morons.
Yup, one of the guys i worked with went to do his normal weekly shopping in Aldi in Cork today and said the queue was around 2hrs or so to get in. Trolleys upon overloaded trolleys coming out to the point of nothing being left here .
Girl I work with is a manager in spar, she was saying the height of abuse from the women 'scumbags' in there is insane. Just utter greed and gluttony with no regard for anyone else
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-325b5afe848decbb41810caae44f93a6)
Same shit here. Went to get shopping today and the amount of asshole coming out with overloaded trolleys was seriously pissing me off. No regard for anybody else at all.
Im home now and didn't manage to get anything cos the queue was so long. I've a few eggs and bacon in the house. Should get me through till tomorrow.
Im just glad I stocked up on drugs ha.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 27, 2020, 11:48:44 PM
There has been some serious memeing.
The memes are the only thing keeping me sane at the moment.
As long as they don't get too 'serious'... what harm, sure.
https://facebook.com/graeme.campbell.1610/videos/497845254457397/
I went to the shop today and it was a very civilized experience, about 10 people in Lidl and all with baskets instead of trolleys. No problem getting anything I want either but I expect that to change as the news gets out that the panic buying is back on. Tomorrow will tell a lot. Well not for me because I don't need anything but I'm sure I'll hear about it one way or another.
I don't get what it is with people, they are on their phones and glued to the news all day and they don't seem to have copped that no matter how bad it has gotten in any country the shops are still open and if everybody would stop being greedy cunts there is still plenty for everyone. Same shit in the place where I work, seen people coming in for baby formula for example and because there is a limit just sending in their husbands or sisters later on for more. Of course the general policy of not calling them out still applies so fuck all can be done about it.
It's mad really because there was always enough baby formula for all the babies in the country and no indication of any forthcoming shortage, but sure why let reason get in the way of your blind panic ye miserable flock of sheep cunts. And that's only one example. There must be some level of paracetamol sitting in people's houses this minute and they will probably end up throwing them out in the finish. some waste.
Mate of mine is a carpenter and he gets up around half five each morning, he got laid off yesterday and woke up at the usual time today and said fuck it, heads to Tesco at half six and there was a kilometre queue of people outside the store. Mad stuff altogether
It's funny how the virus is the threat but it is people and their selfishness and irrational fears that would potentially collapse everything. And now because of the snowball effect, their fears are starting to seem more rational by the minute, as the fear that they wouldn't be able to get what they need becomes the reality but only due to their own actions.
Actually it isn't funny at all, it's depressing.
It really is depressing. And when this shit passes, they should be fucking reminded daily.
A few explainers about testing methods in here:
https://twitter.com/jenheemstra/status/1244043096301731845?s=19
Interesting reading that, and in terms even I could understand
Cryin :laugh: :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFs2SR83OA8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFs2SR83OA8)
and
https://facebook.com/joshua.v.young/videos/2838221226269217/
Also crying...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8167509/PIERS-MORGAN-20-Cov-idiots-far.html
Annoying but it's hard to disagree with the tool bag on most of these
bar the Idris Elba one, that seems a bit clutchin at straws tbh and for the Elon Musk one.. I think he was referring to the people panic buying etc and not people actually being in a panic about what might happen with all this.
The Bono one :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on March 30, 2020, 07:30:09 PM
Also crying...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8167509/PIERS-MORGAN-20-Cov-idiots-far.html
Suspect Harry and Meghan where going to be in there somewhere. He's utterly butthurt by them.
That article is written by Piers Morgan, the man who's wrong even when he's right.
Leave Gal alone,she gets a pass ;D
There are many sad elements to it for me. I'm reading the daily mail. I'm reading Piers Morgan. I'm reading what "celebrities" are doing. I agree with Piers Morgan. I have heard of some of these "people".
On the plus side I haven't heard of some of these creatures and other than that column I wouldn't have heard any of these stories. So I must be doing something right although I slipped badly this time.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 30, 2020, 07:30:09 PM
Also crying...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8167509/PIERS-MORGAN-20-Cov-idiots-far.html
AKA "a list of rich and famous people who hate me." Surprised he called out Trump really, can't believe anyone tolerates that toilet of a man.
Piers Morgan calling someone else an idiot?? ohh the irony...
Yeah he is a knob of the lowest order.
Jesus it's harrowing looking at the stats atm for Italy.. 12,428 deaths to date
Quote from: Aborted on March 31, 2020, 07:50:28 PM
Jesus it's harrowing looking at the stats atm for Italy.. 12,428 deaths to date
Mediterranean diet me hoop!
Going by the stats on Workdometer, Spain is gonna shoot past them soon enough, I reckon.
And I honestly don't believe a word coming out of China about their status.
I'm sceptical about Germany too, but then they are fucking Germans. So who knows.
Check out this guy who explains the shit out of the virus itself...
https://youtu.be/4J0d59dd-qM
Saw that earlier. Was hoping for an optimistic conclusion but no, it's just grim.
A 31 year old olympic swimmer talking about having it for the last 2 weeks..
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/olympic-gold-medalist-cameron-van-der-burgh-battling-coronavirus-n1166961
That idiotic idea some people have of it only being an issue for the elderly, sick etc :-\
Quote from: jobrok1 on March 31, 2020, 07:58:38 PM
Going by the stats on Workdometer, Spain is gonna shoot past them soon enough, I reckon.
And I honestly don't believe a word coming out of China about their status.
I'm sceptical about Germany too, but then they are fucking Germans. So who knows.
German efficiency ;)
Looks like their health care is coping the best out of all this.
Quote from: jobrok1 on March 31, 2020, 08:02:33 PM
Check out this guy who explains the shit out of the virus itself...
https://youtu.be/4J0d59dd-qM
I can't see the value of watching or sharing something like that at all (I didn't watch it) because unless that video gives some description of how this information can be used to help oneself stem the infection and get over the thing, it does nothing beyond spreading the fear which is virulent in itself. Knowledge is not always power.
I'm not saying nobody at all should watch it, as a lot of people can view these things in a very detached way, or need to watch them because it is beneficial to some research they are involved in but if your regular person on the street is watching the likes of this and sharing it with their pals/acquaintances over social media, then it is hard to blame them for panic buying massive amounts of things and leaving nothing for everybody else because this stuff makes them afraid. I'm meeting people every day who have themselves entirely tortured with this shit and love to regale me with the horrors of it all even though I ask them not to. I was torturing myself with it a bit, too but I had to stop for my sanity.
I doubt watching a detailed video of the mechanics of exactly how influenza or septicaemia or ebola or getting rolled over by a steamroller or getting the electric chair or even starvation or fucking old age kills somebody would be any less grim if you were someone in the high risk group for getting done in by that. I think this shit is counterproductive to a measured and reasoned response to the situation we find ourselves in, no matter how learned or well meaning the person telling you all of the details in the video seems to be.
Actually fuck it let's pepper the place with detailed videos of how malnutrition and cholera and bullets kills children and their parents and their grandparents in third world African countries, and we can sit back and watch everybody panic buying everything in their desperation to share food and medicine and money for shelter from the horrors they face on a daily basis with them. At least that would be actually helpful and could possibly achieve some good. Oh wait, none of those people matter because they are in third world countries and it is their own fault and besides, their instagram accounts are so like famine and genocide ridden and shit they are just so like old news, so last years' trocaire box...
Bit of a rant, but I was making a point in there somewhere. Also nothing personal to OP, it's just a generalised point or 2
Quote from: jobrok1 on March 31, 2020, 07:58:38 PMI honestly don't believe a word coming out of China about their status.
I've a mate over there who reckons that life is getting back to normal. Still plenty of masks and precautions being taken, but he's back to work, restaurants/bars/shops etc. are all open again and people are tentatively living a more-or-less normal life again. Saying that, he's in Wuxi which is a few hundred miles away from Wuhan.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUi_hzxXYAAnjc2?format=jpg&name=large)
Might be an unfair to put COVID19 on this graph with it being so new. It's not a comparison per say but more of an insight into variation/mutation over time. So if a virus stays closely to the straight line it'd be less variant, less mutations.
Mutations can be good or bad (SARS was contained and died off). New viruses when they emerge will change until it becomes more stable (or die off). If a virus is deadly it might kill so many hosts that it just can't persist as much as a less dangerous version of itself. Less deadly, more likely the event of staying in the host long enough to spread to more people. COVID19 is that type of virus, spreads easily and takes a good while to kill a small % of people. It's also shitty that it can spread with little or no symptoms.
Anyway, COVID19 is spread on the graph where the other viruses are more mature and are more tightly bound to the central line so less mutations going on over time and as expected some of the mutations in the new virus go nowhere and the lineage dies off.
I think what we will be looking for in the coming months is - what persists (will there be multiple strains at once / one strain then another later on = waves). From my reading there is 2 persistent strains so far, one less deadly. The worst case scenario is a seasonal SARS-CoV-2 that mutates along that straight line so regularly that vaccines are of limited use and life expectancy takes a massive thump, making it very unlikely to see past our 80s, even 70s with a % chance each year of getting hit with this in your 30s/40s/50s. That first hit or second dose might hit you with lung damage, with a chance of getting hit again few years later, killing you off. This is the worst case now but I can see why this is taken so so seriously and measures to some might seem so drastic and "over the top".
As small of a probability of this scenario playing out over the next year is - I think people need to wake up to the possibility. I personally like to know what is at stake but at the same time, I wouldn't mull over this for too long, there is little we can do in the grand scale of things but on day to day - try not to be an idiot during the lockdown.
What of immunity then? Is your thinking that, because of so much mutation, there'll be effectively no chance of building up immunity to it, as with flu? (Although, some people do have stronger immune resistance to flu).
I see Eddie Large from 80s double act Little and Large has died of it.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 02, 2020, 11:02:50 AM
What of immunity then? Is your thinking that, because of so much mutation, there'll be effectively no chance of building up immunity to it, as with flu? (Although, some people do have stronger immune resistance to flu).
"When about 70 percent of the population have been infected and recovered, the chances of outbreaks of the disease become much less because most people are resistant to infection," said Martin Hibberd, a professor of emerging infectious disease at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.
This was originally the position of the UK (and I think the Swedes/Dutch approach now) but then they realised a big surge over 4-6 weeks would cripple their health system and cause a huge increase in deaths. So hence social distancing/lockdown measures now in place around the world. Each country is now in different stages of it spreading so would be hard to co-ordinate a worldwide response to eradicate it fully. From other experts in the UK the main idea was 60-70% of total population to get infected & to recover in other to stop it.
This is a good site to check out->
https://nextstrain.org/ncov
That might look scary but not every mutation is a distinct strain.
https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1242628551557316608
One of his last tweets ->
So, my prediction is that we should see occasional mutations to the spike protein of #SARSCoV2 that allow the virus to partially escape from vaccines or existing "herd" immunity, but that this process will most likely take years rather than months.
And if you have a computer/laptop at home ->
https://foldingathome.org/2020/03/15/coronavirus-what-were-doing-and-how-you-can-help-in-simple-terms/?fbclid=IwAR0d1cTnsH2Q9J8rl6VZJAo2i_9I0YUEzCYVRjIvXVXE90cpqNZjmde7s4E
People that used to have SETI@home will know how this works but if any of you have idle CPU laying about, this program will use that (plus idle gpu time) to computationally research coronavirus. Download and install!
Some thoughts on looking at the graph back there.
Is it a fair assumption that a very successful virus would ideally not kill its' host in order to sustain itself over time? Perhaps the UK's assertion that a sort of herd immunity will be the outcome is realistic in the long run as judging by the amount of slight variations so far, this thing is mutating or attempting to mutate at an astounding rate. I suppose I should take into account that if that graph were to be extended over 20 years or so, it could possibly end up looking a lot more linear.
I'm all for mitigation by the way, as if it were given time to mutate to a less deadly version of itself while infecting as little people as possible, a lot less people would have to die from it before it became more benign and also it would give a greater chance of treatment for those who do get the deadlier version. But then does it have less time to mutate as it infects less people and thus stay in its' deadlier form for longer and can mitigation only delay the inevitable and would it result in the exact same number of lives potentially lost, just over a longer period of time?
Any truth that the Chinese wet markets are open again ?
Who knows what to believe with that lot, I've heard they are 'getting back to normal' but sure you wouldn't put it past them to say that and sit back and see if other countries will follow suit and make things worse.
Also I see Taiwan (who could have sold millions of them to Europe) 5.6 million facemasks to the european union.
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91812866_10156606476846222_672915800692097024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=0ahjfa_wN4EAX8tWByT&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=41d909e6b644401c7680d3085ed5e0de&oe=5EAC9B6C)
How much did Ireland have to pay China for extra medical supplies? ..200 Million Euro
That was for what's coming in from the second planeload on, wasn't it? The first planeload (which landed last Thursday and about which nothing was heard) was donated for free.
One thing that this whole situation has really brought to the fore for me is my general mistrust of everything
No shit :laugh:
After three weeks of working from home, my crowd have announced we're going on a four-day week with accompanying 20% pay cut for three months. Could be worse.
Quote from: Juggz on April 03, 2020, 09:49:46 AM
After three weeks of working from home, my crowd have announced we're going on a four-day week with accompanying 20% pay cut for three months. Could be worse.
Without asking too much info on your company etc for obvious reasons, why are they cutting back to a 4 day week if everyone is working from home and things are otherwise going as normal? (if they are)
We've been told to expect similar. Although there are whispers ours will be the 20% cut only we get to keep our 5 days working, giving them cheaper labour.... not nice but seems most industries on their knees so have to suck it up. I'm in oil and gas and the 20% cut here versus the job losses stateside makes the cut sting that bit less.
Quote from: Aborted on April 03, 2020, 10:02:46 AM
Quote from: Juggz on April 03, 2020, 09:49:46 AM
After three weeks of working from home, my crowd have announced we're going on a four-day week with accompanying 20% pay cut for three months. Could be worse.
Without asking too much info on your company etc for obvious reasons, why are they cutting back to a 4 day week if everyone is working from home and things are otherwise going as normal? (if they are)
I work for a medical device company. Elective surgery has largely stopped globally so sales are way, way down. No demand, no need for supply. Production is still going on in the factory, albeit scaled back with a stripped down staff. All staff not directly involved in manufacturing, like me, I work in IT, will be on the 4-day schedule.
Quote from: Juggz on April 03, 2020, 10:27:27 AM
Quote from: Aborted on April 03, 2020, 10:02:46 AM
Quote from: Juggz on April 03, 2020, 09:49:46 AM
After three weeks of working from home, my crowd have announced we're going on a four-day week with accompanying 20% pay cut for three months. Could be worse.
Without asking too much info on your company etc for obvious reasons, why are they cutting back to a 4 day week if everyone is working from home and things are otherwise going as normal? (if they are)
I work for a medical device company. Elective surgery has largely stopped globally so sales are way, way down. No demand, no need for supply. Production is still going on in the factory, albeit scaled back with a stripped down staff. All staff not directly involved in manufacturing, like me, I work in IT, will be on the 4-day schedule.
Ahh kk I see. Well hopefully no further drops :)
My company emailed around last night that they'll be looking at potential lay-offs and restructuring of non-critical roles over the next week. I've been moved into the finance department from Monday, once I've done some re-training. Not sure whether to focus on being moved or being considered non-critical is the bigger worry for me, not great for anyone's anxiety. On the one hand I'm thinking that if they are re-training me and moving me then they aren't likely to can me a few weeks later, on the other I'm thinking that maybe long-term my job might not be there. Trying to stay positive knowing that we've plenty of savings and my partner is a hospital pharmacist means I'm likely in a better position than many with regard to fulfilling rent and bills, but my first job out of uni was sacked off when the banks went bang in 2008, so I've always had a lingering fear of redundancy for my entire working life.
Hope that everyone on here is doing well, sounds like more people's circumstances are starting to change again. I wonder if the government or banks have mentioned something to business for a few companies to start making moves like this? I'm not suggesting anything conspiratorial, but I'd reckon they've communicated their likelihood to extend this lockdown more than once.
QuoteBay Area thrashers Death Angel confirmed reports at the end of March that drummer Will Carroll was in intensive care, suffering from the coronavirus, and had been hospitalized for a couple weeks at that point. Today, they posted the following update:
"BEASTMAN LIVES! We are so fucking grateful! Thanks to every one of you beautiful people for the positive vibes and support. We love us some Will Carroll!!!!"
Carroll is on the road to recovery and has issued the following statement:
"'Rumors of my death have greatly been exaggerated'. I thought I'd start this post with a Mark Twain quote. But in all seriousness I can't over express how everyone's outpouring of love, support and positive energy was so important to me. Without getting too spiritual or sappy I honestly think you saved my life.
When I was in a coma I was for 12 days your positive energy somehow got me through. I know I'm strong and resilient but not that strong. During my coma the doctors told me they had to pump my lungs of all fluid which was the equivalent of 5 pounds of beer they thought I was a goner for sure.
It's a hell of feeling talking to people who thought you weren't going to make it. It completely blew my mind when I got a message from one of my idols Jay Jay French (Twisted Sister). A man who I don't even know. Maybe he saw a picture of my TS tattoo. That just shows he's pure class.
You know, when I was a kid I used to think TS's lyrics were 'Fuck you, it's us against them' but maybe that's a bit shortsighted. I think they're more about the value of life and not squandering it.
As I start this new chapter of my life I look forward to getting my chops back up to speed and getting some new files from Mr. Rob Cavestany which will eventually be DA's 10th record. Until then I have the arduous task of learning to walk and eat solid food.
I love you all and thank you."
Re the Chinese PPE delivery, I see that the mask material is too heavy, the gown material is too light and the sleeves are only 3/4 length, FFS! Not the complete delivery but a pain in the arse regardless. No wonder the first batch was free! Nearly a waste of all the logistics put into getting it and distributing it.
The stereotypical Made in China. I feel a bit bad for laughing
Quote from: astfgyl on April 03, 2020, 02:08:22 PM
The stereotypical Made in China. I feel a bit bad for laughing
Don't feel bad for laughing. 'Made in China' is without doubt, a mark of low quality.
It's time to forget about buying cheap use a couple of times and have to throw away rubbish. It's bad for your pocket and bad for the environment.
The time has come to buy less. Source good quality products and bin China off..
Who knows, maybe they won't have smog over nearly every one of their major cities. So although it won't do their economy much good, it might actually raise their standards of living by not having their beautiful country as the factory of the world.
"Buy well, buy once"...... :abbath:
I think there's definitely merit in that now.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0403/1128300-ppe-covid-19-ireland/?fbclid=IwAR0_jCEaIuGHQ8OjXr_dxyWbhLoRt5qn8AfL6LePOLmQ81F8V3qsZ5woA5w
I've always reviled the utterly disposable nature of modern living. Everything designed to fail after a couple of years so even though it seems cheap it actually costs more in the long run and chronically bad for the environment. Fuck it i could go on this rant over in the Peeves thread
The CCP Virus must be the first thing that China has manufactured in years that actually works as described.
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on April 03, 2020, 05:22:27 PM
The CCP Virus must be the first thing that China has manufactured in years that actually works as described.
Certainly lasts longer than all the other shit they produce. :laugh:
https://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/vitamin-d-could-help-fight-off-covid-19-new-tilda-research/
CovidCore :abbath:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGSLKWeVwE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXGSLKWeVwE)
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/nations-without-bcg-vaccination-saw-higher-cases/articleshow/74956201.cms?from=mdr
and then...
https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/news/bcg2018.html
My brother was tested 16 days ago was told he would have results in 2 days he still hasn't heard anything so at best Ireland is at a minimum 2 and half weeks behind on test results. I reckon the number of positive cases is at least a couple of thousand higher than what they think at the minute. That's one of the reasons the US is so high because they have tested a shit load of people and now have that new faster test that gives results in 15mins.
That BCG vaccination story is a bit better reported here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-02/fewer-coronavirus-deaths-seen-in-countries-that-mandate-tb-vaccine
The age group affected by the hse policy change makes it effectively irrelevant to the matter at hand, the countries listed in the Bloomberg article are a different matter.
I thought it was said that they were only contacting people who were positive regarding the tests? Or was that just an idea that never happened.
Quote from: mickO))) on April 06, 2020, 06:04:51 PM
My brother was tested 16 days ago was told he would have results in 2 days he still hasn't heard anything so at best Ireland is at a minimum 2 and half weeks behind on test results. I reckon the number of positive cases is at least a couple of thousand higher than what they think at the minute. That's one of the reasons the US is so high because they have tested a shit load of people and now have that new faster test that gives results in 15mins.
I find it funny that there was a 15 minute test invented in Ireland early in March and I have yet to hear of it being used here. In fact, I got that BCG story from the twitter page of one of the inventors of it. https://twitter.com/TheRealColmRyan?lang=en
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 06, 2020, 06:10:57 PM
That BCG vaccination story is a bit better reported here:
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-02/fewer-coronavirus-deaths-seen-in-countries-that-mandate-tb-vaccine
The age group affected by the hse policy change makes it effectively irrelevant to the matter at hand, the countries listed in the Bloomberg article are a different matter.
Yeah fair point about the age thing there. I understand those born since 2015 don't come into the high risk category, but would they be high risk of being carriers? Didn't see the bloomberg article yet I'll have a read of that now.
Boris in ICU now
Quote from: Aborted on April 06, 2020, 06:35:01 PM
I thought it was said that they were only contacting people who were positive regarding the tests? Or was that just an idea that never happened.
If you are negative you get a text message if your are positive you get a phone call.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 06, 2020, 06:38:23 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on April 06, 2020, 06:04:51 PM
My brother was tested 16 days ago was told he would have results in 2 days he still hasn't heard anything so at best Ireland is at a minimum 2 and half weeks behind on test results. I reckon the number of positive cases is at least a couple of thousand higher than what they think at the minute. That's one of the reasons the US is so high because they have tested a shit load of people and now have that new faster test that gives results in 15mins.
I find it funny that there was a 15 minute test invented in Ireland early in March and I have yet to hear of it being used here. In fact, I got that BCG story from the twitter page of one of the inventors of it. https://twitter.com/TheRealColmRyan?lang=en
Don't know about an Irish test sure they don't even have test centres set up in some of the big towns. Just heard about the US using the 15 minute one.
Edit: Double Post
Yep, fairly serious. I know he's a divisive character but you wouldn't wish it on him. Trump on the other hand... hmmm...
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 06, 2020, 09:03:31 PM
Yep, fairly serious. I know he's a divisive character but you wouldn't wish it on him. Trump on the other hand... hmmm...
Nah, I hope the cunt dies
That's pretty hardcore radical, bro.
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on April 06, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Boris in ICU now
I guess he didn't have this in mind when the herd immunity thought process was leading the way and he let things drag on for so long. More than playing his part now, but wouldn't wish it on anyone Mad that the Russians broke the news first I believe.
Johnson is worse than Trump. He knows exactly what he is doing and wouldn't piss on a poor person if they were on fire.
Going out in ICU would be a soft exit for the cunt.
Quote from: Snare on April 06, 2020, 10:51:53 PM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on April 06, 2020, 08:43:41 PM
Boris in ICU now
I guess he didn't have this in mind when the herd immunity thought process was leading the way and he let things drag on for so long.
Indeed, and I wouldn't have any sympathy for him whatsoever as a result. The countless people he'll inevitably have infected, on the other hand, I feel sorry for them.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 06, 2020, 09:55:45 PM
That's pretty hardcore radical, bro.
He is directly at fault for countless suffering, fuck him.
There's no arguing that he mishandled the crisis.
If it ends up giving the Tories a boot in the bollocks then happy days. And if Trump's mishandling gets him out of office in this forthcoming election then even better for the world in general.
BoJo the Clown and Company made a monumental mistake at the start of this crisis, and it's just after biting them in their collective Bollix.
Their Labour Party are waiting in the wings and the media over there are already building up the Starmer gimp as a bit of a Golden Boy.
Lovely bunch of keyboard warriors on here. Hope the cunt dies, and trump too.
U bunch of wankers.
Quote from: Blitzer666 on April 07, 2020, 12:18:01 PM
Lovely bunch of keyboard warriors on here. Hope the cunt dies, and trump too.
U bunch of wankers.
well said..I mean I know Boris is a chancer.....and Trump is what he is...(a complete cunt)...but I wouldn't wish death on anyone....its bad karma!
Quote from: Blitzer666 on April 07, 2020, 12:18:01 PM
Lovely bunch of keyboard warriors on here. Hope the cunt dies, and trump too.
U bunch of wankers.
Because BoJo and Trump have brought so much happiness to people... so you're a keyboard what? Defender of the bourgeois?
Eh lads, no need to go off on one in either direction; whatever happens happens. Wishing or not wishing won't change a thing about it. Boris publicly resigned himself to lots of people dying; if he's one of them, he's actively to blame simply by having followed his own terrible advice. I don't hope he dies, but in a literal sense it will "serve him right" if he does. No need to get moralistic about it and lose our shit.
Yeh can't be wishing death on someone it creates bad juju 🙈
Some reductions in Italy France and Spain over the last few days are encouraging. I don't have the exact figures but I suppose the results of the restrictions had to become apparent at some stage. I guess the picture here should be getting clearer over the next few days regarding the effects of what we are all doing. It looks promising so far but I do feel the lag in testing has a lot to do with that.
Where do any of you see this ending? Is it feasible to keep restrictions in place until all cases have been cleared or until a cure or vaccine is definitively found? Of course reintroduction couldn't be ruled out unless all points of entry are closed and that seems unlikely especially considering north/south cross border travel covering different jurisdictions and probable differences in policy coming into play. I wonder will there be some form of retrospective test that would allow some to go back to work. That seems like it would also be problematic as it is effectively punishing those who managed to avoid infection.
Probably missing something obvious, but any ideas?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 07, 2020, 01:40:29 PM
Eh lads, no need to go off on one in either direction; whatever happens happens. Wishing or not wishing won't change a thing about it. Boris publicly resigned himself to lots of people dying; if he's one of them, he's actively to blame simply by having followed his own terrible advice. I don't hope he dies, but in a literal sense it will "serve him right" if he does. No need to get moralistic about it and lose our shit.
This...
The Boris thing is indicative of where we have gone as a society..down the drain. It's Schadenfreude shite. If he or anyone else had an answer to the crisis I wouldn't be into my 4th week sitting at home with a death toll in Spain kicking up 14k and the numbers rising again despite total lockdown. I'm not here to defend him, yes maybe he got his words wrong, does he deserve to die for that? He's posh..again, is that worthy of death? He's a Tory, went to a posh school, believes in diffferent values..does that mean all his followers deserve the coronavirus too? And then there's the other end of the scale..why can't the scumbags and knackers get it instead of the nice people. So who's left after all this? People need to grow up, and it's certainly not only in this thread I'm reading such nonsense.
I have heard several people saying things like "I hope such-and-such gets it". I disagree. I hope nobody gets it.
I'm actually wondering myself how this is going to end realistically. I doubt some guy will come on the telly and say 'right, the virus is gone. You can leave your homes, go back to work and all that silly queing to get into Tesco and staying 2meters apart is all gone. Go back to hugging and touching each other.'
It's going to be a very slow return to normality. But fuck me, I'll certainly appreciate simple things a lot more like going into town for a dander, popping into Nandos or going up to Portrush for a Sunday afternoon.
There was a one day dip blip in new cases in France a couple of days ago, other than that we're currently heading towards the peak here, not coming down from it. Today worst day so far for new cases and deaths.
Shit, so the good news story i was reading about it was probably related to that blip rather than some new pattern. I suppose I should be thinking harder about the good news stuff as well. Back to the old story of running with the things that fit with what I want to believe again..
Depends on what numbers are being spun. They are saying things like that the number of recovered hospital releases is up, but the national number of critical cases is still second only to the US globally, so I'm not paying much attention to spin, just numbers. 10000 new cases today reveals they've at least finally upped their daily testing capacity anyway.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 07, 2020, 11:08:57 PM
Shit, so the good news story i was reading about it was probably related to that blip rather than some new pattern. I suppose I should be thinking harder about the good news stuff as well. Back to the old story of running with the things that fit with what I want to believe again..
It's going to be a while depending on the different stages each country is at and what measures they have put in place.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
Go through each simulation there and pretend that's over the course of 4-8 months. They have been starting to lift restrictions in China since late March so China duration is about 4 months on full lockdown with tough authoritarian measures. Peak will come to most countries in the next month or so. Ride this out until August/September is a good case scenario in my eyes.
So far today, the U.S. has reported 1,786 new coronavirus deaths, by far the highest in one day since the outbreak began ???
Interesting simulations there, had a couple of goes with similar results. One thing I can say is that there will be many cans drank in the garden this year if I stay lucky enough not to get sick. I feel like we probably aren't anywhere near peak in this country yet and mostly due to the lack of testing and the delay in results for those who have been tested.
Massive figures there for U.S. too and they most likely aren't peaking yet either. But their population is 100 times what ours is so we probably have a similar proportion of deaths to them in percentage terms. I know a lot of the exact figures can be got from worldometers but following the numbers that closely was getting to me so I try not to get sucked in to looking at it
Just can't imagine even thinking of going to a crowded pub anytime soon, even if the lockdown was lifted. Maybe a quiet restaurant if pushed!!
Ted!?
What?
I'm going mad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6dcQqbUuQ0 :laugh:
I have that in my head a lot lately. Only Noel Furlong and the gang are subbed off and replaced with my kids
Debenhams going into liquidation in Ireland. 2000 jobs down the drain. Is this the beginning of the next recession? Looking that way.
If there's any accuracy in this, it suggests we're over the worst of it
http://covid19.healthdata.org/ireland
Grim times coming for the UK, however
http://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom
Quote from: Juggz on April 09, 2020, 04:01:40 PM
If there's any accuracy in this, it suggests we're over the worst of it
http://covid19.healthdata.org/ireland
Grim times coming for the UK, however
http://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom
I'm feeling cautiously optimistic reading those. The actual deaths on the 6th was lower than the projection as well. It's good to feel like we are doing well.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 09, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
Debenhams going into liquidation in Ireland. 2000 jobs down the drain. Is this the beginning of the next recession? Looking that way.
Is that some sort of tactic to write off company debt and then start again or something along those lines? I'm not very knowledgeable with things like this, but I was speaking to a guy the other day who seemed pretty sure that was the idea behind it. Maybe he was talking shite though.
No idea.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 09, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
Debenhams going into liquidation in Ireland. 2000 jobs down the drain. Is this the beginning of the next recession? Looking that way.
I very much doubt that Debenhams employ 2000 people in their 7 retail stores across Ireland.
Are they including ancillary workers (delivery drivers, warehousing operatives, etc.) in these figures?
I sense a bit of scaremongering in this story tbh...
Debenhams was struggling in the UK already. It was always gonna go this way, but this crisis has expedited things here.
Very glad I adhered to HSE advice now. My dad was diagnosed with it yesterday. Because I haven't visited him in a month I won't even need to be tested.
Per capita our death rate is currently close to 50% less than that of the UK which of course is a large percentage but still the UK has roughly a greater than 60 million more population than us which means also more and larger urban areas their deaths seem to be in a similar age group as ours but probably haven't reached thir peak yet. France Italy and Spain are still fairly bad even if they are stabilising and improving to some extent but Europe as whole has not peaked according to the WHO. The US as awful as New York has been seems to be fairly low otherwise.
Ireland is the least densely populated country in Europe or at least one of them.
The US figures are high but their population is almost that of Europe if you knock a couple of countries out of the equation.
The underlying and really worrying thread to all of this is how corrupt and biased the likes of the WHO and the U.N. are starting to seem. A lot like FIFA, nobody seems to pay any attention to them for the most part, but the Taiwan story says a lot about where they're at. It seems we in the West spend so much time criticising our own politicians and systems that we've forgotten just how utterly shit it is to live in the likes of China, just how corrupt and sinister their political system is. The propoganda machine is in full effect at the moment to take the spotlight off them and it's amazing just how complicit the western media is with it all.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 09, 2020, 03:13:40 PM
Debenhams going into liquidation in Ireland. 2000 jobs down the drain. Is this the beginning of the next recession? Looking that way.
They've been struggling for a while now and CV19 was the final nail in the coffin it seems.
This time last year it was announced they were closing 11 stores in the UK but not touching the 12 in Ireland. As said above they have been going down hill for a bit so this sealed the deal so they will of course cut stores outside of their own country before ones within the UK. But from all accounts there'll be a lot more on the way out soon enough.
5th May at least. We are all heroes.
Ted?...
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 04:31:33 PM
5th May at least. We are all heroes.
Ted?...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=i6RgnGJQrjQ&feature=emb_logo
Three more weeks of groundhog day :-[
Good old father ted is right up there with the simpsons when it comes to summing everything up
3 weeks is a tough one. But sure fuck it, if it works it works. I'd be the very lad giving out if there wasn't enough being done but it's hard to look at the likes of Taiwan and not feel a small bit jealous of their less draconian measures. Leaving cert students must be feeling particularly demoralised right now. I never thought it would be any less than what was announced but even so, it will be a tough one.
I wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame? I had a feeling it would be drip fed on a weekly or fortnightly basis to mitigate the mental health effects. Obviously I was wrong and I wonder now was that taken into account by the NPHET or were they more single minded in their recommendations?
At the very least the off licence is going to take a beating
Also, am I wrong in feeling angry about the fact that tourists from the UK were being let in off the ferries the last couple of days when we are having our lockdown extended. They have a much higher number of infections than we do, and if any percentage of them have it, it basically sets us right back and likely further extends our restrictions. What is wrong with this country that we couldn't send them right back from whence they came?
I'd be interested to hear what any of you think about this or is there another perspective that I'm not seeing?
Quote from: hellfire on April 09, 2020, 06:31:27 PM
Very glad I adhered to HSE advice now. My dad was diagnosed with it yesterday. Because I haven't visited him in a month I won't even need to be tested.
Is he alright?
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 05:19:16 PMI wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame?
My mental health will now be determined with a fine selection of red and white cans because there is fuck all to do bar drink and write tunes
Quote from: ochoill on April 10, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 05:19:16 PMI wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame?
My mental health will now be determined with a fine selection of red and white cans because there is fuck all to do bar drink and write tunes
Please tell us those cans are Red Stripe and not that gawdawful other tasteless shite...?
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 05:19:16 PMI wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame?
Also, am I wrong in feeling angry about the fact that tourists from the UK were being let in off the ferries the last couple of days when we are having our lockdown extended.
I'm surprised those ferries had any tourists at all on, pretty much everything of interest is shut down and there's load of travel restrictions, what are people going to do here?
As for the announcement, when I saw that it was until May I felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I've been doing well during this and keeping a good routine working from home, but we got told on Monday that we're definitely being laid off from the 20th, so I think I just saw this yawning maw of dead time opening up in front of me. I'd already planned to use my two months not working doing a software development course, but May just seems like a really long time away. I don't dispute their reasoning at all, think I was just caught off-guard by it and I hope I'm not in anyway in the majority, because I've heard talk of lockdown fatigue recently and I get the impression some headtheballs are going to start chancing their arm before long.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 10, 2020, 07:28:55 PM
Quote from: ochoill on April 10, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 05:19:16 PMI wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame?
My mental health will now be determined with a fine selection of red and white cans because there is fuck all to do bar drink and write tunes
Please tell us those cans are Red Stripe and not that gawdawful other tasteless shite...?
He definitely means the Karpackie
One of the guys from my previous job was just on to me there. His grandfather in the US got diagnosed with it a few weeks ago.
The guy is 96, smoking cigars for 65 years... made a full recovery today ::)
Quote from: kiehozero on April 10, 2020, 07:41:12 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 05:19:16 PMI wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame?
Also, am I wrong in feeling angry about the fact that tourists from the UK were being let in off the ferries the last couple of days when we are having our lockdown extended.
I'm surprised those ferries had any tourists at all on, pretty much everything of interest is shut down and there's load of travel restrictions, what are people going to do here?
Holiday homes, Kerry is flooded with the cunts. The locals are fighting back, spreading slurry etc. A ton of English people turned up on Castlegregory at about 4 in the morning. Cunts.
It's fucking ridiculous that they be allowed and also equally ridiculous that they have so little respect for the people in the places where they choose to have their holiday homes. "Stay at Home" me bollix. The self-serving, disrespectful cunts. The government should have grown a pair of balls on this one and unless you actually live here, don't come here. It makes a mockery of what we are all trying to do.
Pretty much everyone I know has been trying to do their bit since the beginning of the outbreak here with social distancing, staying at home, self isolating and whatever else you can think of. Then all of the people put out of work at a stroke, and kept out of it even longer as of today. The impending recession, the coming years of heavy taxation and high unemployment, the number of jobs which will never be gotten back, the small firms going permanently out of business, shit like Feed the Heroes, do your bit for the health workers, we are all in this together, stay the course, Garda powers to be used to keep us from straying more than 2km from our homes, checkpoints all over the country, fuck knows what else.
And here we have it, they are let in because why? I'd love to hear the good reason for that. What is a good reason for putting all of this at risk just because a few lads can't be told to fuck back until we get out the other side of this? Are we not all doing this to try to get things back to some degree of normal so that in the future we will still have a half decent place and then these fucking pricks can come visit all they want.
I hope every one of them gets physically ran out of wherever it is they think they are going, and at the same time of morning or night they turn up at.
And finally, while I'm ranting, does anyone else notice that the rules don't apply to scumbags and gear heads in their towns or is that just where I'm from? There they are sitting down the river with bags of cans, strolling up the town in groups of 3 or 4. Still robbing cars and houses, still basically scumming around as they always did. Shiting bastards getting the train to Dublin every other day to pick up their gear and bring it back down, no bother lads work away. And the Gardai in town outside Tesco stopping cars asking what part of town they came out of while these shitehawks stroll around doing as they always did, sure ye tip away at it lads we're all friends here everyone loves scumbags sort of buzz.
I think today's announcement is after getting to me a bit
Very strange that the ferries are continuing to allow visitors in. It doesn't make any sense at all. I think the alco and gearbag situation is trickier as that is essentially a health issue. Imagine if all of those people couldn't get their gear or booze for the next month. Total fucking chaos.
You have a point there. A lot of these lads give not a single fuck about getting arrested for say robbing a pharmacy for benzos or fucking a rock through an off licence window. I have no idea what the solution to that would be, but I'm reminded of a Canadian study done a few years back where a heroin addict was given heroin under certain conditions and that had a much better effect than methadone. I think (and I'm only going from memory here) he ended up getting a job and getting off the gear. In fact, a quick search of it shows a lot of that policy in use around the world.
It just feels like our collective hard work and sacrifice is being undermined in silly and needless ways, and I'd be generally of the live and let live persuasion.
Yep. Our neighbours had friends over and were hanging out in their garden today. We get on well with them but it bothered me. We are all bored and stifled by the lockdown but let's get the fucking thing done and out of the way, not fuck about and drag the ring out of it till the end of the summer or later.
Were they shooting up?
I hope so.
I had my in-laws call after the first lockdown was announced, and it annoyed the shit out of me. I left them outside the front garden and put it in the most joking-but-not-joking way I could that nobody should be doing that sort of thing. It fully undermined the fact that I had been telling the kids to stay away from basically everyone and we would all be sooner back to normal if they did. I could see the "how come that doesn't apply to them?" look on the kids' faces immediately.
Funnily enough for a finish it was the 4 year old comes out and tells them they aren't supposed to be calling to people and they had to do one at that. And they in the high risk category both of them. I've never been one for doing what I'm told in general but this is so we can all get back to not doing as we are told as quickly as possible.
I know they only came round to shoot up, but there actually are people's lives and livelihoods at stake
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 07:52:10 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 10, 2020, 07:28:55 PM
Quote from: ochoill on April 10, 2020, 07:27:21 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 10, 2020, 05:19:16 PMI wonder what the immediate effect on mental health will be after an announcement like that, like will a lot of people instantly crack up upon hearing the time frame?
My mental health will now be determined with a fine selection of red and white cans because there is fuck all to do bar drink and write tunes
Please tell us those cans are Red Stripe and not that gawdawful other tasteless shite...?
He definitely means the Karpackie
It was Stella this time but 99% of the time it is Poland's finest yeah.
Good read here from Fintan O'Toole about the Brit response:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/11/coronavirus-exposed-myth-british-exceptionalism
Was the whole thing about the ferries being full of tourists not a load of bullshit?
Apparently there was a small amount of vehicles coming in and most were on business?
I dunno i could be wrong.
The amount of people getting their news from Facebook as well is unreal.
Sharing videos that are years old and people losing their shit over them
Facebook really is bottom of the barrel shite.
There was a report from one day, Thursday I think, saying there were only a few cars coming off the ferries. But the on-site reports are that many more came before, a problem serious enough that the threatening response of locals, again on-site, called for police intervention in more than one location.
It's insane if it's true Gir l I worked with has family there and that's where I heard it from. Apparently there's a lot of them coming in this weekend.
If this isn't something that's being handled correctly then it just needs to stop.
Quote from: Doctor Crippen on April 10, 2020, 06:53:38 PM
Quote from: hellfire on April 09, 2020, 06:31:27 PM
Very glad I adhered to HSE advice now. My dad was diagnosed with it yesterday. Because I haven't visited him in a month I won't even need to be tested.
Is he alright?
Doing very well with it. He's in hospital, but improving daily.
Quote from: hellfire on April 11, 2020, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: Doctor Crippen on April 10, 2020, 06:53:38 PM
Quote from: hellfire on April 09, 2020, 06:31:27 PM
Very glad I adhered to HSE advice now. My dad was diagnosed with it yesterday. Because I haven't visited him in a month I won't even need to be tested.
Is he alright?
Doing very well with it. He's in hospital, but improving daily.
Good stuff :)
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/sligo-woman-jailed-for-28-days-over-coughing-in-garda-s-face-1.4224370
And rightly so. Disgusting at any time but possibly detrimental now. A mother of three in jail now, I wonder who's going to mind the kids? The Father or Fathers probably aren't in the picture either.
There were many moron's whinging about not being able to use their holiday home for the Easter weekend too. Sadly a lot of people still just aren't getting it. Viral Infection or Idiocy. Which is the bigger threat?
Scum.
Quote from: livingabortion on April 12, 2020, 09:24:00 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/sligo-woman-jailed-for-28-days-over-coughing-in-garda-s-face-1.4224370
And rightly so. Disgusting at any time but possibly detrimental now. A mother of three in jail now, I wonder who's going to mind the kids? The Father or Fathers probably aren't in the picture either.
There were many moron's whinging about not being able to use their holiday home for the Easter weekend too. Sadly a lot of people still just aren't getting it. Viral Infection or Idiocy. Which is the bigger threat?
Ms Spellman said her client was a mother-of-three who was "having a very difficult time" and intended to make an appointment with her GP to get help as "all she has been doing is drinking" over the last few weeks. Oh im sure she had full intentions of making an 'appointment'. Scumbag
Quote from: livingabortion on April 12, 2020, 09:24:00 PM
Viral Infection or Idiocy. Which is the bigger threat?
The combination of both is particularly dangerous
On an unrelated note I read this one a few minutes ago regarding UK air pollution:
"These are big changes—pollution levels are the equivalent at the moment of a holiday, say an Easter Sunday," Professor James Lee from York University and the National Centre for Atmospheric Science told The Guardian about the data.
Does it actually drop off that much on a day like that? And if it does, how come nobody did anything about it, knowing that? I find that a bit surprising but anyway, I was thinking about the whole carbon issue and wondering what makes the most difference, the planes or the cars and also thinking about how noticeable the change for the worse will be if everything suddenly gets going again. It's easy to take no notice of something gradually creeping up on you, but if it jumps up out of nowhere you certainly notice it. I have a feeling that people's environmental attitudes will change a lot after this current situation. Also thinking about how this thing could go so many ways like will everything end up more dystopian or will there be some sort of great awakening and everything gets better due to increased awareness of basically everything like a reevaluation of all things with a focus on what is actually important to everybody.
It really could swing either way
I think there are a few different things that could/ should be re-evaluated after this all dies down, like our impact on the environment and reliance on cheap Chinese labour and goods, but I'm too pessimistic to think anything will be done about it. Nothing really seems to have been learned from the recession. Everything slowly just reverted to status quo and in some instances became worse- I'm thinking of the housing and rental crisis here- so I imagine things will go back to exactly how they were once this is under control.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 13, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
I think there are a few different things that could/ should be re-evaluated after this all dies down, like our impact on the environment and reliance on cheap Chinese labour and goods, but I'm too pessimistic to think anything will be done about it. Nothing really seems to have been learned from the recession. Everything slowly just reverted to status quo and in some instances became worse- I'm thinking of the housing and rental crisis here- so I imagine things will go back to exactly how they were once this is under control.
I genuinely wouldn't call what you're saying there pessimism - it's pragmatism more than anything because what you've said is bang on the money.
Yeah it's a fair point. The recession only seemed to increase the gap between the haves and have-nots in a lot of ways with things like vulture funds being a prime example of that. It's a pity how greed always seems to win the day.
The optimistic view would be that people would get a sudden look at what we've all been doing and decide to do other things like buy quality goods and not need a constant upgrade on their possessions to try live some sort of false dream sold to them by advertising media. The reality of a dream like that is that yeah anyone can access it in a way, but they will be forever enslaved to debt because of it so it's more of a nightmare for a lot of people working all hours in shit jobs just to feel like they are one of the haves when they actually have fuck all. Of course the demand for those things would have to disappear before large corporations woke up to the fact that they can't be getting away with peddling disposable shite all the time and then the good stuff would have to be some way affordable as well so the more I think about it the more unlikely it becomes.
This is all probably better suited to the Are We All Fucked thread but it's all sort of related these days. Like we are all able to pull together when we want to. The sudden repurposing of the HSE is a great example. All the years of understaffing and issues with nurses' pay and patients on trolleys suddenly can be fixed when needed. I don't have the exact figures of all that but just giving as a general example of how things can be fixed when there is an appetite or a need for it. Okay we have been reminded many times how much it will cost us but if tax went to something like 25% or even 30% all the time and stayed there and the result was universal healthcare or similar, or a living wage for us all, I don't think most people would feel bad about that. A situation like this also highlights the absurdity of higher executives pay vs the actual worker carrying out their bidding for them. Which has better value in real terms? TD's salaries and banking executives salaries and bonuses should come under severe scrutiny once more after this when we are being handed the bill for all of this. I know they will all do their best to deflect this but surely a lot of folks will have suddenly woken up, or they will.
And still, you're probably right. This will all be forgotten as quickly as possible and we can get right back to paying an imaginary bill like we have done for years after the recession.
I'm back to work tomorrow, on full-time for the next few weeks at least
Warehousing is deemed essential work now because the docks, etc. are filling up with cargo containers and had nowhere to.
Thankfully the weather he's been decent for the last month and made being stuck at home actually quite enjoyable. Music, reading and walking/exercising in the garden.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 12, 2020, 10:50:41 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on April 12, 2020, 09:24:00 PM
Viral Infection or Idiocy. Which is the bigger threat?
The combination of both is particularly dangerous
On an unrelated note I read this one a few minutes ago regarding UK air pollution:
"These are big changes—pollution levels are the equivalent at the moment of a holiday, say an Easter Sunday," Professor James Lee from York University and the National Centre for Atmospheric Science told The Guardian about the data.
Does it actually drop off that much on a day like that? And if it does, how come nobody did anything about it, knowing that? I find that a bit surprising but anyway, I was thinking about the whole carbon issue and wondering what makes the most difference, the planes or the cars and also thinking about how noticeable the change for the worse will be if everything suddenly gets going again. It's easy to take no notice of something gradually creeping up on you, but if it jumps up out of nowhere you certainly notice it. I have a feeling that people's environmental attitudes will change a lot after this current situation. Also thinking about how this thing could go so many ways like will everything end up more dystopian or will there be some sort of great awakening and everything gets better due to increased awareness of basically everything like a reevaluation of all things with a focus on what is actually important to everybody.
It really could swing either way
I'd be willing to believe that about pollution. Part of my job has been analysing traffic patterns near our shops to see the effect of the lockdown. Some places are seeing 70% less traffic, particularly around motorways as there is pretty much no reason for most people to be on them anymore. Traffic nearly everywhere halved straight away when the lockdown was announced, and declined further. I obviously can't share the data I have as it shows confidential sales information, but the initial traffic data we used was based on open-source information available on the NRA/TII website.
Just announced for France; full confinement until 11th May.
An honest question, were you instantly demoralised? Personally I took it very badly for the first day when it was announced here until the 5th. I got over it, as there is no point wallowing but the initial shock was tough.
Interesting you should ask. For me, the answer is no, but I was just thinking that it would be for a lot of people, and was thinking how very psychologically demoralizing it would have been had they announced 6 or 8 weeks of lockdown right from the start.
I always knew it would go on beyond yesterday and I know it will still go on past May 5th here, but there was something about it being confirmed that was rough on the head for at least a day. Like I was saying, I got over it but I can only imagine how bad it is for some people who are pretty isolated as it is, like auld fellas who only have the few lads in the pub for company or lads in rural isolation. I wonder are governments (who are probably thinking this will run and run) testing each time how much in advance that people will take. Like first give them 2 weeks, then 3 weeks, then a month sort of thing, and I suppose it's a tightrope they are walking before people in general start to say fuck this and mass disobedience kicks off. If they were to come out tomorrow and say 6 months I would likely crumble pretty quickly.
That's forgetting something that seems clear; no one has an end game. Most governments are improvising measures as they go along, as things evolve. Spain, for example, to loosen confinement a bit now to allow certain sectors to recommence. Will that work out okay or will it lead to a second spike? For the moment no one knows, some are for, some against. No conspiracy, more than ever the world is indeed rudderless.
I agree. I might not have made that exactly clear in the wording and now I look over it I didn't. When I was saying they might be testing how far they can push people with announcements I didn't mean to imply that the governments themselves actually knew how long. I was just saying that like myself they anticipate it will run and run because there is no cure or prevention, and they are walking the tightrope of how long to announce at a time on one side vs how long of an announcement will drive people mad right off the bat on the other. I fully agree with what you are saying about the world being rudderless at the moment. We have people relying on the government to tell themthe answer, the government relying on science for the answer so they can give it to everyone, and science relying on the probability that they will figure it out sooner or later. Imagine that there is never a cure or vaccine found for this and what do we all do then? I reckon that is the general question the governments are looking at this minute. We are all hoping for the best but there is no guarantee that any of this will have an ending that involves it being fixed. These are truly fucked up times.
I have no doubt that will get a vaccine for this, it's just a matter of how long it will take. There have been a couple of reports saying they are close to finding the vaccine but who knows.
It would take close enough to a year for a vaccine to be publicly available.
Yep, it will probably be slow in coming, but it's coming. That is my point.
Hopefully so
Was just reading that Mary Lou McDonald tested positive but is recovering. She was tested on the 28th March and only got her results back yesterday. Madness. For its population, Ireland is supposed to be a major player in the medical and life sciences; I haven't looked into it, but baffled by what has gone so wrong.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 14, 2020, 03:31:52 PM
Was just reading that Mary Lou McDonald tested positive but is recovering. She was tested on the 28th March and only got her results back yesterday. Madness. For its population, Ireland is supposed to be a major player in the medical and life sciences; I haven't looked into it, but baffled by what has gone so wrong.
I'm still waiting on results from the 27th, would have thought someone that high up the political ladder would have been sorted in a few days though
I think it was due to the availability of reagent for testing, which has since been secured. I expect a massive increase in positive cases due to this. The odd thing is, a lot of cases will have recovered before they ever know they had it, Mary Lou being one such case. I was going to say it's good to see that all are being treated equally in this case, but she was tested a day after yourself and got her results first so that fucks that notion.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 14, 2020, 04:06:28 PM
I was going to say it's good to see that all are being treated equally in this case, but she was tested a day after yourself and got her results first so that fucks that notion.
I know two people who got tested on the same day, in the same town 2 weeks ago. One got her results 10 days later, the other lad still waiting on his. Not sure how they're doing it, but it seems to be random enough so I don't think anybody is getting special treatment. What do I know though...
Yeah I'm probably talking shite. I haven't a notion how it goes either. It could be prioritised by how sick somebody is or just fully random. According to the HSE they will have it all cleared this week anyway so that's good news for anyone waiting for it.
One thing I find odd is that on world of meters, Irelands recoverey number is at 25.. its like hardly anyone is recovering and has this for really long periods of time or the numbers just aren't accurate?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR0h-FL0VHEo4ixHW6wbOFNMIjqY75OxCdJKw_2wL7QX15BJYTJTflk2G5k
I was looking at that earlier to see how the Diamond Princess fared out and i thought the recovered number for pretty much everywhere was quite low but I didn't read into exactly how they arrive at that figure. I wonder is it the number of cases who have been cleared following subsequent testing? I presume that most cases are just given a time frame to be presumed okay again rather than actually tested clear given the backlog and shortage of testing materials and maybe the site only deals with definites
As far as I know, it's mainly based on hospital discharges.
If that is the criteria the numbers are really low. Well except China but who really knows what their figures are. It must take a good 3 weeks minimum to get up and going again for most
Here's a figure that'll spin your head and concept of time; one month ago today, global deaths were at 6520. That equates to an almost exactly 20 fold increase in just 30 days to the present.
That is equal parts depressing and terrifying, with lots more sure to come. Have any of the European countries considered themselves past the peak yet?
I just hope somebody stumbles upon a cure very soon. Pretty much any substances that can be ingested (and probably many that can't) are being thrown at this thing right now. Latest one I read about was a headlice treatment which is showing promise and the UK are almost convinced they will have a vaccine by September.
What on Earth is Trump giving shit to WHO about not acting fast enough?
Was he not the man describing it as a hoax and no big deal? Fake news etc even when experts warned him?
I'm pro-Trump but he's acting the eejit on that one. Very hypocritical, as you allude to.
Completely false that he called it a hoax, what he said was somthing along the lines of "the democrats latest hoax is that i have done nothing on the matter" as usual it was taken out of context to make him look bad like most things he says are.
He was right to give the WHO shit. The rest of the world was left to work from doctored information from China. Everything else about his handling of this crisis has been pathetic. Doubt he will survive the next election after making a pants of this one.
He will definitely be re-elected.
Quote from: hellfire on April 15, 2020, 05:54:57 PM
He was right to give the WHO shit.
The WHO may have deserved criticism, but "he" definitely wasn't right to give it to them. An important nuance, speck of dust in your brother's eye, etc.
It is also true that he never called the virus itself a hoax.
Fair enough. There's so much shit he says it kinda all merges into one.
He probably will get reelected.
I wouldn't be a supporter or anything but I have a sort of liking for Trump at times in spite of myself. He is some bollix.
Was looking at a HSE graph of Irish cases earlier and they hadn't included the German tests, as they wanted to match them to the right days and adjust the graph accordingly. RTE news the last few evenings, however, have simply loved to revel in the largest increase they can announce every evening in spite of the fact that they have no idea what days they were actually attributed to. That shit really winds me up, the fucking wankers. Just give the actual fucking news.
Quote from: Pedrito on April 09, 2020, 08:06:53 PM
Ireland is the least densely populated country in Europe or at least one of them.
The US figures are high but their population is almost that of Europe if you knock a couple of countries out of the equation.
The underlying and really worrying thread to all of this is how corrupt and biased the likes of the WHO and the U.N. are starting to seem. A lot like FIFA, nobody seems to pay any attention to them for the most part, but the Taiwan story says a lot about where they're at. It seems we in the West spend so much time criticising our own politicians and systems that we've forgotten just how utterly shit it is to live in the likes of China, just how corrupt and sinister their political system is. The propoganda machine is in full effect at the moment to take the spotlight off them and it's amazing just how complicit the western media is with it all.
Ireland have today quadrupled funding to WHO in response to the US stopping funding really makes you wonder what a lot Governments objectives are in all this.
And who will be paying for that, I wonder?
I'm reading this at the minute, but it will require a bit of scrutiny https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/china-helped-put-man-charge-world-health-organization%E2%80%94-it-paying-136002
Dunno how anyone can like Trump. He is such a fucking ignoramus. He lacks basic manners and courtesy (shouldn't the leader of the most powerful country in the western world at least possess some basic diplomacy skills?) and every sentence dribbles out of his buffoon mouth like he has just walked away from a car crash and left half of his brain stuck to the dashboard. Apart from' shaking things up', what do you like about him?
61 deaths reported in Ireland today, grim reading. That link saying we were past the peak of deaths looked at odds anyway.
The poor nursing home residents are getting an awful hammering. Portlaoise was nearly a repeat of the Madrid home abandoned by nurses as so many were out sick with no cover.
Thankfullt the rate of spread is way down after all the measures taken.
I don't like him, and he is indefensible. It's just every now and again he says some things that I find amusing (again, in spite of myself). He is a fucking nut no doubt about it. And yet somehow I find him less slimy than the likes of Varadkar and Martin. As you say, it can only be the "Shaking things up" element and even that is base level shit. I wouldn't mind him having no manners or tact though if he was saying anything worth hearing.
Trump has recently referred to the POTUS as having absolute authority and power. If that's not a move towards a dictatorship, then I'm Lemmy. Total bawbag he is.
He has his supporters so he must be doing something right behind the braindamaged persona. I just don't know what it is. Curious to hear the good, worthy stuff he is doing for America, or the world. It might be that his bluntness, his whole manner is so off putting and repulsive that it is taking away from good work being done.
I think he has just managed to convince the trailer park element that he might be able to get them back out of the trailer park and into a job and a gainful existence. And most of his supporters are of the "here's more American Gladiators" persuasion anyway and/or of the "let's make more money at the expense of anything and anyone" mindset. I think that, much like Sinn Fein here, he has gotten in as a sort of protest against the status quo.
His manner is as endearing to millions as it is repulsive to you. The media hate him and this inevitably has its influence on broader opinions of him. I'm not saying your unthinking, but it looking past all the bluster will show you precisely why he will in all likelihood be re elected. Record black employment, a robust economy and tackling the (for many) unpalatable illegal immigration issue decisively (despite the machinations of the judiciary) are a few examples.
He is also not afraid to criticise the quasi-fascist Chinese regime, he calls into question their information about the Coronavirus outbreak and deaths, call out those manky wet markets etc. Granted, his language is coarse, he is often a BS merchant. But he's a businessman, not a politician. Who gives a shit if he is steering the gaff in a direction the majority of Americans want to go?
The Guardian, the Washington Post and the like will whistle a different tune, but that's hardly surprising. The left is now mainstream, and to them, he's a heretic who must be destroyed at all costs.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2020, 10:57:32 PM
I think he has just managed to convince the trailer park element that he might be able to get them back out of the trailer park and into a job and a gainful existence. And most of his supporters are of the "here's more American Gladiators" persuasion anyway and/or of the "let's make more money at the expense of anything and anyone" mindset. I think that, much like Sinn Fein here, he has gotten in as a sort of protest against the status quo.
You sound like Hilary Clinton there lad. I think it's very, very lazy to write off his whole base as trailer park trash .
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 16, 2020, 10:33:46 PM
He has his supporters so he must be doing something right behind the braindamaged persona. I just don't know what it is. Curious to hear the good, worthy stuff he is doing for America, or the world. It might be that his bluntness, his whole manner is so off putting and repulsive that it is taking away from good work being done.
Sure Obama had his supporters as well and he was one of the worst presidents the US has ever had yet is still praised to this day cause he's an MSM darling and did as he was told. Obamas own half brother despises him.
Justin Trudeau is a lot worse than Trump he is without a doubt the most embarrassing politician I have ever come across, yet he is also praised around the world. I am no Trump fan but he makes a lot of valid points about the WHO they are corrupt as fuck.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2020, 10:00:43 PM
And who will be paying for that, I wonder?
The tax payer most likely and they won't get a say in the matter either.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:02:04 PM
You sound like Hilary Clinton there lad. I think it's very, very lazy to write off his whole base as trailer park trash .
I actually find Hilary Clinton much more offensive than Trump and given the choice of the two at the time I was happy to see him come out on top. I did say the "let's make more money at the expense of anything and anyone" crowd would probably have backed him as well. I saw earlier you said you were a supporter and I'd be interested to hear your take on that. I admit my knowledge of U.S. politics is topical at best.
I still think his victory was mostly down to a protest vote. Like Sinn Fein here could basically throw anyone up for election and they got in as long as they weren't FF/FG
Quote from: mickO))) on April 16, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
the WHO they are corrupt as fuck.
That article I linked earlier has sent me down a rabbit hole about them and it's amazing stuff. As was said earlier here they are mostly something nobody thinks about but once one starts to look... it's interesting to say the least
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:00:03 PM
His manner is as endearing to millions as it is repulsive to you. The media hate him and this inevitably has its influence on broader opinions of him. I'm not saying your unthinking, but it looking past all the bluster will show you precisely why he will in all likelihood be re elected. Record black employment, a robust economy and tackling the (for many) unpalatable illegal immigration issue decisively (despite the machinations of the judiciary) are a few examples.
He is also not afraid to criticise the quasi-fascist Chinese regime, he calls into question their information about the Coronavirus outbreak and deaths, call out those manky wet markets etc. Granted, his language is coarse, he is often a BS merchant. But he's a businessman, not a politician. Who gives a shit if he is steering the gaff in a direction the majority of Americans want to go?
The Guardian, the Washington Post and the like will whistle a different tune, but that's hardly surprising. The left is now mainstream, and to them, he's a heretic who must be destroyed at all costs.
I hadn't seen this when I said I'd be interested to hear your take on it.
Edit: That sounds like I was being smart, I just actually hadn't seen it and it's always good to hear the other side of the argument. I've been wrong as many times as I have ever been right and I agree with your comment about the left being the new mainstream. I do think Trump on the surface seems like an egomaniac and is a danger to worldwide stability from his position of power though.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2020, 11:17:34 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on April 16, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
the WHO they are corrupt as fuck.
That article I linked earlier has sent me down a rabbit hole about them and it's amazing stuff. As was said earlier here they are mostly something nobody thinks about but once one starts to look... it's interesting to say the least
Even the fact that two years ago they appointed Robert Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador didn't get people asking questions.
I had a look at an article on the BBC there about the strength of the US economy and it does appear to be booming but the report suggests there was an upward trajectory that has continued since the Obama administration. Good to see they are doing well, and calling out China is fair enough in many respects, but his oaf-ish manner is tough to get beyond.
I suppose the other side of the coin is having a smooth operator, like Obama, who is charming and charismatic and maybe uses his personality to deflect attention from the more insidious aspects of the job.
It's difficult to get a sense of what life is like in the States these days as that chasm that exists between left and right seems to be growing, but is that just a distortion coming via internet forums and hysterical news reporting?
There probably was an element of 'protest vote' involved, and I was initially lukewarm to him. I also believe that if the democrats had but up a less distasteful, dishonest candidate, he would have been defeated. Joe Biden is pre-senile, tottering on the edge of dotage and in second place you had a fella who said taxing the very wealthy at 90% was justified, so they are essentially handing the second term to him on a plate with the shite they have scrapped together as an opponent .
Money of course is always going to be a factor (a majority of Scots in a survey said an extra 500 quid A YEAR would have made them vote either way in the independence referendum , although my Dads tight Scotsman's jokes are coming to mind). However, I think his promises to revive an ailing and shrinking middle class and to 'bring back' manufacturing jobs to the US resonated enormously. Has he delivered? To an extent he has, and it seems to matter to him. Obama was shinier, more eloquent but in hindsight he was far fuller of hot air than trump has been, despite superficial observations to the contrary.
On a lighter note, following him on Twitter is very entertaining. CHY-NA🤣
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 16, 2020, 11:25:09 PM
I had a look at an article on the BBC there about the strength of the US economy and it does appear to be booming but the report suggests there was an upward trajectory that has continued since the Obama administration. Good to see they are doing well, and calling out China is fair enough in many respects, but his oaf-ish manner is tough to get beyond.
I suppose the other side of the coin is having a smooth operator, like Obama, who is charming and charismatic and maybe uses his personality to deflect attention from the more insidious aspects of the job.
It's difficult to get a sense of what life is like in the States these days as that chasm that exists between left and right seems to be growing, but is that just a distortion coming via internet forums and hysterical news reporting?
The internet warfare between Shapiro, Crowder, Sargon of Akkad, Gavin McInnes on one side and Vox, The Slate the Young Turks etc shows how contrary it has gotten. There are very few impartial sources easily available. Planned Parenthood for example is a perfectly benign organisation to some and an outrageous tax dollar joke to others, regardless of the morality.
You get the impression a lot of youthful lefties (I was one myself) are gravitating towards Trump and the right by observing what left wing politics in the US, Canada and the UK have become ; a cringeworthy whinefest, demanding society be torn down and started from scratch. It's like the youth wing of the Khmer Rouge.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 16, 2020, 11:25:09 PM
It's difficult to get a sense of what life is like in the States these days as that chasm that exists between left and right seems to be growing, but is that just a distortion coming via internet forums and hysterical news reporting?
I am Canada I can tell you here the left and right thing is huge and a source of many arguments in every walk of life you really cannot say what you feel for fear of the consequences freedom of speech does not exist in Canada. Things are even worse in the US and it started getting very bad when Obama took office. The same here in Canada the country has never more been divided than they are right now under Trudeau.
The right and left seem mired in shite but there are some voices, generally conservative admittedly, who are bringing a bit of sense into the conversation. The likes of Douglas Murray, for example. Probably a 'total mysogynazitransphobepatriarch', like those other scary monsters, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson, but at least you can listen to him articulate an idea without wanting to smash your phone off a wall.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:25:42 PM
Obama was shinier, more eloquent but in hindsight he was far fuller of hot air than trump has been, despite superficial observations to the contrary.
Oh the whole Obama love-in made me fucking sick while we are at it. I was watching RTE shortly after he got in and on the replacement for The Den, the presenter had a "Hope" T-shirt on with a picture of Obama's face. It seemed to me that was simply down to the fact that he was black and how fucking racist was that? Or maybe it was because he was young and that is pretty ageist, too. Any way I look at it, it was ridiculous. He also won the Nobel Peace Price while he presided over several wars which beggars belief as well. People should not be pre-judged on their race or age or gender for that matter. They must be judged on their actions. Like being the first Female or the first Afro-American or first Gay leader shouldn't matter a fuck or get anybody any sort of a bye. Equality must be applied.
Trump did at one point praise China's response. He's not coherent at all.
America having a black president was a big thing, in fairness. I think that's more of a landmark than having a female president, not to say that wouldn't be symbolically important too. But I agree that any politician should be judged 100% on their actions and not through the awe-struck perspective of a smitten groupie.
The twitter outrage brigade were essentially demanding that Joe Rogan be crucified because he doesn't think male to female transsexuals should be allowed to participate in competitive sports with women. Hardly hosting a Nuremberg rally. He's just a sound, affable lad who is capable of getting great conversation out people as diverse as Louis Theroux and Alex Jones.
Murray and Yiannopolous are singled out for special hatred (couldn't be more different, these two) because the don't fit the leftist homosexual narrative. As in, they are conservatives and homosexuals shouldn't be so.
It's mad.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 16, 2020, 11:41:35 PM
The right and left seem mired in shite but there are some voices, generally conservative admittedly, who are bringing a bit of sense into the conversation. The likes of Douglas Murray, for example. Probably a 'total mysogynazitransphobepatriarch', like those other scary monsters, Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson, but at least you can listen to him articulate an idea without wanting to smash your phone off a wall.
I love the podcast but Joe is an idiot and clearly being told what he can and can't say you don't get to be youtubes number 1 and still be same as you were when you started off. Up until this week he cut off anyone who mentioned the fuck ups of the WHO over the last month and immediately changed the subject. He also has done that many times before on other topics. One great thing though that Joe did was inadvertently destroy Bernie Sanders campaign :laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 16, 2020, 11:47:08 PM
America having a black president was a big thing, in fairness. I think that's more of a landmark than having a female president, not to say that wouldn't be symbolically important too. But I agree that any politician should be judged 100% on their actions and not through the awe-struck perspective of a smitten groupie.
Ah yeah it was a landmark, as with any other "first", but let the judgement be made on his actions. It flies in the face of the equality movement to look at it any other way. Like he wouldn't be worse because of his race but he wouldn't be better either. He is either successful or he isn't and looking back, Obama was only middling-to-poor, despite what they say in Moneygall
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:49:01 PM
The twitter outrage brigade were essentially demanding that Joe Rogan be crucified because he doesn't think male to female transsexuals should be allowed to participate in competitive sports with women.
How does he feel about it going the other way round, female to male, I wonder? But I agree with his point, it's an unfair advantage.
Anyone else see the video of the sold out Ryanair flight that apparently landed in Dublin on Monday from Sofia? 189 passengers. Keelings are suppose to have paid for a full flight of people to come over here to pick fruit and they have been sent straight to work no quarantine.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2020, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:49:01 PM
The twitter outrage brigade were essentially demanding that Joe Rogan be crucified because he doesn't think male to female transsexuals should be allowed to participate in competitive sports with women.
Good question, I've never considered it, but I imagine any incidents would very isolated indeed.
How does he feel about it going the other way round, female to male, I wonder? But I agree with his point, it's an unfair advantage.
Quote from: mickO))) on April 17, 2020, 12:00:41 AM
Anyone else see the video of the sold out Ryanair flight that apparently landed in Dublin on Monday from Sofia? 189 passengers. Keelings are suppose to have paid for a full flight of people to come over here to pick fruit and they have been sent straight to work no quarantine.
If that is true, somebody needs the shit beaten out of them.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 17, 2020, 12:03:11 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2020, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:49:01 PM
The twitter outrage brigade were essentially demanding that Joe Rogan be crucified because he doesn't think male to female transsexuals should be allowed to participate in competitive sports with women.
Good question, I've never considered it, but I imagine any incidents would very isolated indeed.
How does he feel about it going the other way round, female to male, I wonder? But I agree with his point, it's an unfair advantage.
Probably never happened yet to be fair
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2020, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2020, 11:49:01 PM
The twitter outrage brigade were essentially demanding that Joe Rogan be crucified because he doesn't think male to female transsexuals should be allowed to participate in competitive sports with women.
How does he feel about it going the other way round, female to male, I wonder? But I agree with his point, it's an unfair advantage.
He doesn't care he also said if a man and woman want to fight each other he has no problem once they both agree to it. With Fallon Fox the thing was he did not disclose he was a man until it came to his third fight.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 17, 2020, 12:04:52 AM
Quote from: mickO))) on April 17, 2020, 12:00:41 AM
Anyone else see the video of the sold out Ryanair flight that apparently landed in Dublin on Monday from Sofia? 189 passengers. Keelings are suppose to have paid for a full flight of people to come over here to pick fruit and they have been sent straight to work no quarantine.
If that is true, somebody needs the shit beaten out of them.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-fruit-company-keelings-slammed-21880693
I looked at the Newstalk report and Keelings say they need them so we don't run short of strawberries. Sure what's a few hundred lives? ..... these are fucking unreal strawberries.
The company themselves say they have briefed the workers on it all and "It says this includes 14 days of restricted movement for any new arrivals in the country, prior to starting work."
Any of ye ever pick strawberries as young lads? Right up there with footing turf for baptism-of-fire-into-the-world-of-work
Quadrupled the payment to the WHO...I actually nearly vomited when i seen this was real. These scumbags need to be hung.
Regarding alt-right figures, there's a danger here of reasoning along the lines of X's detractors are idiots, therefore X is not an idiot.
That's not how things work, not in a world this full of people who have no idea how to reason.
Which 'alt right' commentators?
Please, define 'alt-right'. It seems to be a catch all phrase for the non-thinkers.
Everyone knows what figures are described as alt-right, just as we all know what kind of figures you mean by the "twitter outrage brigade".
Please, define 'outrage'!
Come off it.
I didn't believe it until I read it :laugh:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/22/robert-mugabe-removed-as-who-goodwill-ambassador-after-outcry
How in the actual fuck?
Criticise Trump all we want, yep he's an arrogant cunt, but he's 100% right about the Chinese economy. He's been saying 'They're killing us' for years. He's also really consistent about the US being used to protect half the world and pouring money into protecting Europe, much of Asia and the Middle East for donkeys years also.
https://youtu.be/A8wJc7vHcTs
It's the same with the WHO, they're paying 10 times more in than China...go figure. So he's definitely a divisive figure, but when you start scratching away at the stuff that he comes out with, which I've been doing for quite a while now, you'll find the guy is a lot shrewder and on the ball than he's given credit for.
0The mere fact that the barber, the woman who sells me fruit, every Tom, Dick and Harry spoofing on about the American president, American policy, about how dangerous he is when he's started zero wars and grown his enomomy, tells me that the media and wider, deeper interest groups are manipulating the media and the narrative. It's simply common sense to think that way. As far as I've always thought, actions speak louder than words and if I look at the actions in a cold, detached manner, I'm not seeing the dictator/fascist/satan that is being painted. People are so caught up in the smiles and the charisma of an Obama. I see Trump as no better or worse really from the record of both so far. Obama made a balls of plenty of things too, but it's not a job for the faint hearted.
Dear god, he was just as unbearable to listen to 30 years ago!
No President of the US is going to be a good guy, and Obama is no more a good guy than Tony Blair, for instance, despite soft appearances. I mean, we know that. But the fact a war hasn't been started during Trump's time is as likely coincidental as anything; the wars open to him would have been cataclysmic compared to framing Afghanistan and taking a pop, or even Iraq who weren't so popular even among their neighbours. I don't think there's any reason to believe Trump would have responded any differently to Obama.
No, the real problem with Trump is that he's a role model for outrageous back-pedalling, lying, stupidity, etc., in a country which responds well to this precisely because it's already rife with it! As an executor of action, he hasn't done worse than previous presidents of the US, but as a human being, he has no redeemable qualities whatsoever that I can see. If he's shrewd, it's because he's driven entirely by self-interest, whether that manifests in an awareness of when he's getting shafted financially or in him throwing a tantrum because someone just pointed out a verbatim quote where he affirmed a position he's now saying he never held. I mean, can you imagine someone like him in your class at school? In work with you? "I know you are, but what am I?" That's his level of ego fragility, and that's appealing to many, many, many people. Birds of a feather...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 17, 2020, 10:07:51 AM
Everyone knows what figures are described as alt-right, just as we all know what kind of figures you mean by the "twitter outrage brigade".
Please, define 'outrage'!
Come off it.
I was referring to the general twitter public, and no, I have no idea who the alt right are, unless you're referring to Richard Spencer and assorted spastics.
Enlighten me.
I can definitely see that side to him but I don't accept that it's the complete picture. ¨` No redeemable qualities whatsoever´ is simply hyperbole. As I said he's an arrogant cunt, he's loud, brash, annoying, vulgar, all the things you have said, but he has also brought the political landscape, the media and all the shenanigans that go on in US politics completely under the microscope. Economically he is bang on the money. Jobs and money have been draining out of the US economy for decades now. He was calling out the Iran nuclear deal, WHO now which is being proven to be completely correct, funnily he even banned Chinese travel to the States as far back as January to much vitriol(Nancy Pelosi walking around Chinatown shaking hands, calling him a racist) which has again been proven correct. He is completely right and fair about the States being the police force of the world..much to their own doing of course, but we in Europe have had it so good for so long as a result. He's got a fine missus too.
Even today, look at this snakery> https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0417/1132026-coronavirus-world/ Are we that naive to believe the lies that are coming out of China..I reckon this is only the tip of the iceberg. They coudln't tell the truth if you held a gun to their heads. We need someone calling this shit out and if it's got to be Trump, then so be it.
I sort of see the point Pedrito is making there. When absolutely everyone everywhere is saying the same thing about anything, it pays to try see past all of that and get down to the actual facts behind it. I think that the endless pursuit of more money rather than better living for all is a dangerous concept in itself and he sort of personifies that for me, so I would be fairly blinded to a lot of good things he has done for US citizens, if indeed he has done some. I feel some sort of socialism is the way forward but I wouldn't know how to define that exactly to fit in with any particular tag.
The whole Left, Right, Alt Left, Alt Right, Extreme Left, Extreme Right, Centre Left, Centre Right etc way of defining things is a bit weird to me anyway and is sort of like saying "I only listen to X type of music so I won't be liking any other kinds even if I hear them and think they're good" or maybe "I define myself as an Industrial Jazz Blues Pop Rock Electro Bluegrass Folk Metalhead" just because you like all of those things. It gets a bit like musical subgenres and seems a bit pigeonholing.
Yeah but 'alt-right'.
I'm startled and alarmed that a person as intelligent and thoughtful as the lad Chris, in the words of the stinger, subscribes to this point of view.
It's a myth. Anyone with conservative opinions is lumped in with this imaginary (for the most part) alt-right camp. Pathetic boy hi
Kev, you might as well say that "true metal" is an imaginary label, but we all know what kind of music it refers to, with slight blur around the boundaries. I'm not "subscribing to a point of view" by using the term, I'm just using language in a way that is pretty transparent to anyone who follows current trends. I don't know how I'd define it; a mash-up of "millennial" character attributes with far right conservative values, in the same way that their mirror equivalent are a mash-up of the same "millennial" character attributes but with "progressive" and nominally socialist values. How's that? Vague yet intuitively graspable enough?
QuoteNo redeemable qualities whatsoever´ is simply hyperbole. As I said he's an arrogant cunt, he's loud, brash, annoying, vulgar, all the things you have said
But this isn't what I've said at all; we've had all those character traits before, they're utterly banal even if magnified a little in Trump. No, his worst character traits are his absolute pettiness of spirit, his smallness, his lowliness. In discussion he is a thoroughly pathetic character with the most fragile ego I think I can ever recall in a western world leader.
I don't have the energy to do so, but most of what you're saying he's to thank for there (which he also claims he's to thank for) are highly, highly debatable, and I recommend you follow them up from within the other side's echo chamber too.
There are so many echo chambers now I'm starting to think I'm talking to myself. Nah, I hear you man, I just tend to think the truth is a blur and I'm wary of the Big Bad Wolf talk.
Well, to take an easy to check, the three major US airlines actually suspended travel to and from China before Trump "banned" it. So, much like in the UK at the outset, it was businesses responding ahead of policy which may well have been driving policy.
Nicely put Chris, but it's Obama-esque wind. Give me an example of you consider to be alt-right. I'm right wing, and I'd like to know who I'm being lumped in with.
Me and the brother just invested a bit of money with hertz.
I havent a clue how this shit works but my brothers big into it and he said start investing now if you have spare money.
We both threw 1500 into it. Hopefully get some kind of good comeback once America gets their shit together.
Saw a rolling news headline (Big British Castle) that said the real figures for Wuhan now shown to be 50% worse than originally reported. Anyone hear more about this?
Just that. They've upped the tally by about 1,200, down to retirement home deaths, people dying at home, people untested, usual stuff. Still huge suspicion that they're sitting on numbers in the tens of thousands from other regions, but for the moment this uptick, as a percentage value, matches estimates for non-hospital deaths in Spain, Italy, and what's already being announced on a rolling basis in France.
Quote from: blessed1 on April 17, 2020, 02:03:04 PM
Me and the brother just invested a bit of money with hertz.
I havent a clue how this shit works but my brothers big into it and he said start investing now if you have spare money.
We both threw 1500 into it. Hopefully get some kind of good comeback once America gets their shit together.
I had started looking into that a bit lately but I am so clueless about the whole thing I don't know where to start. It is definitely a good time to invest, similar to 2008 but depending on how this all pans out, I feel I'd probably need to be in it for the long haul to see a return on anything. Also having fuck all money to throw at it won't help.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 17, 2020, 03:33:40 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on April 17, 2020, 02:03:04 PM
Me and the brother just invested a bit of money with hertz.
I havent a clue how this shit works but my brothers big into it and he said start investing now if you have spare money.
We both threw 1500 into it. Hopefully get some kind of good comeback once America gets their shit together.
I had started looking into that a bit lately but I am so clueless about the whole thing I don't know where to start. It is definitely a good time to invest, similar to 2008 but depending on how this all pans out, I feel I'd probably need to be in it for the long haul to see a return on anything. Also having fuck all money to throw at it won't help.
Ya man haven't really a clue about it myself.
It helps to have a brainiac of a brother who does know about these things.
All I know is he's usually right when it comes to stuff like this.
I was saving for a house so had a bit of cash set aside but now my attitude is just fuck it I may as well take a bit of a risk.
He was saying absolute best case scenario you could make about 7 or 8 times what you put in. Maybe more.
Im gonna try and learn more about it now.
I find it hard to wrap my head around that type stuff but if you can make a lot of money from it might be worth it!
I actually see r/wallstreetbets is trending the last few days, so i reckon a lot of folks are using what they learned in the last crash and fair play to any regular person who isn't a vulture fund doing well out of it
"Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan has confirmed that he will seek to change the case definition for Covid-19 ''to make it more sensitive''towards the end of next week.
But he cautioned this was conditional on whether the disease continues to follow the same pattern and the rate of growth drops.
Dr Holohan said he was making that assumption based on whether the disease continues to "behave itself".
If that happens, he said, the new definition will be updated and become operational in roughly a fortnight.
He said GPs will have time to prepare for any new case definition because they will be working on the frontline."
Can somebody explain what does this mean exactly? I don't really understand what is he getting at, is it that he is looking to revise the death count to those definitely caused by the virus or to reduce the future death count by the same criteria, or is it something else that I am missing entirely? Or is it the other way around entirely and this increases the scope of who will be tested, and will increase the overall number of cases? Or am I missing something else that is obvious, because that often happens to me. Any clarification here would be appreciated.
Yeah, not obvious to me either whether "more sensitive" would imply more or less strict application of criteria.
I dunno if that is taking the piss out of me or not, I might have to become more sensitive as well.
But seriously I know in general that "more sensitive" means something would detect a lesser amount of something, thus increasing the amount of cases and deaths and "less sensitive" would usually mean it misses more. So does that mean he simply wants to increase the number of people who qualify for testing? Or is it the definition of who dies as a direct result of the thing that he wants to be more sensitive to, meaning it goes by the German model of reporting vs the Italian version?
Haha, no I was being serious; it's not obvious to me! Because "more sensitive" can also be used to mean "more responsive" as in, more likely to give a result with lower input, so I honestly don't know.
I wonder how many others haven't a clue what he was getting at? I'm killed here wondering if it is a good or a bad thing I'm after reading. Well I suppose it's good either way when I think about it, more wipespread testing improves things, and a more precise definition of deaths that reduces the overall number of directly caused fatalities makes me feel less paranoid about the future
Yeah pretty sure it's about getting more people tested like you say.
A few weeks ago they made the change to symptoms needed to get a test, so the opposite to that. Looks like it's a necessary step on the road back to normality.
"We'll be looking to broaden and try and make that case definition more sensitive for instance, for situations that will be appropriate if we were thinking about lifting restrictions and that would mean we would need to be greatly increasing the number of people tested."
"COVID-19 interim case definition
Clinical criteria
A patient with acute respiratory illness (fever[1] and at least one sign/symptom of respiratory disease e.g., cough, shortness of breath)
OR
A patient with any acute respiratory illness AND having been in contact with a confirmed or probable COVID-19 case in the last 14 days prior to symptom onset
OR
A patient with severe acute respiratory illness (fever and at least one sign/symptom of respiratory disease e.g., cough, shortness of breath AND requiring hospitalization) AND in the absence of an alternative diagnosis that fully explains the clinical presentation.
Cheers for that, I'd only seen the bit I read this evening and not the full quote as you have it there.
It's a step in the right direction so, being able to test all possible cases, so I guess what he is saying in other words is that now we have the materials available, we can start to see the full picture of what is actually going on (and hopefully that will end up in the mortality rate dropping significantly, if the increase in tests does what I think it will).
While we are at it what is the story with asymptomatic cases; are they considered to be as infectious as symptomatic cases? Is making the definition more sensitive only a step towards the inevitable blanket testing, but it just can't be done yet, or is to get to an acceptable level of deaths? Like some people (an average of 518 000, though the figures are debatable) die of the flu every year in spite of the fact there is a vaccine (think about that for a minute) but the number seems to be acceptable enough not to blanket test for it. Should we not take the same approach to that and get rid of it for once and for all through social distancing and quarantining and contact tracing etc or how many deaths do we not have to worry about? What is so different about the flu that it is grand if we let a certain amount of people die from it every year and we don't bother locking down in an attempt to save the vulnerable? No airports closed, no gigs cancelled, pubs open, go where we want etc. Again bearing in mind that there is a yearly-updated vaccine for the flu and the rate of infection and amount of deaths is so high worldwide.
Like if the flu mortality rate is accepted as being 0.1 percent and the deaths are half a million, that gives us 500 million people a year carrying that virus (and don't forget the vaccine) and we all do nothing about it. I bet hardly no one here worries about getting the flu unless they have an already compromised immunity, and of course some will have that, (and I hope none who are reading this die of anything other than old age) but most won't be worried about the flu at all. Why are we not locked down all the time so that we can try to save everybody? Also not saying we should or shouldn't be but the thought raises an interesting point for me about acceptable rates of death, when every death of viral origin could be treated with the same scrutiny and then we might manage to save thousands of lives just as we are attempting to do now (but for some reason only from this particular virus).
Interesting data released to show how deaths reported compare to actual, showing a real peak 10 days ago in one jurisdiction here. The figures published the last few days were worrying so it's a relief to see for instance that 39 reported deaths were actually 13 for that particular day. Red bars is actual, blue line is reported.
Trump's most recent 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN' twitter vomits got me thinking about "non-linear war" and how, when you put it in the context of business, it's nothing unusual; keep the competition guessing, hedge your bets, smoke and mirrors. Trump claiming everything and its opposite, on top of claiming powers he doesn't have and granting powers that are constitutionally assured, is playing directly to that rule book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyop0d30UqQ
Edit: Suffice to say that, from my point of view, this may make him a successful politician, but still - and perhaps by that merit - an awful person to have as President, insofar as it encourages this type of behaviour... i.e. precisely the kind of strategics used by the Pepe the Frog, alt-right trolls too.
Japan has had a setback....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52305055
There is no getting out of this without a vaccine.
that isn't great news for anyone's hopes of getting back to normal any time soon.
I was just reading this one, which has a slightly more positive outlook https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-cases-may-be-tens-of-times-higher-than-previously-thought-study-says-1.4232557
Would I be right in thinking that working on an effective treatment for the more serious symptoms is as important as a vaccine at this point. A vaccine is gonna take a year and a half. Society can't wait that long to get back to some sense of normality.
I think they are closer to getting a vaccine than 18 months, but it will probably be later in the year.
Alex Jones and the InfoWars mooks out in force in Austin today, packed together and calling hoax. Trump seemingly supporting these protests. Awesome President, supporting civil disobedience against measures his own government applied so as not to isolate potential voters too biased to even think about pulling aside the curtain.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 18, 2020, 07:03:56 PM
I think they are closer to getting a vaccine than 18 months, but it will probably be later in the year.
Until you know you've got it, you never fully know how far away it is. Didn't want to announce that as a personal forecast, but then just saw this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/dont-bet-on-vaccine-to-protect-us-from-covid-19-says-world-health-expert
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 18, 2020, 09:18:53 PM
Alex Jones and the InfoWars mooks out in force in Austin today, packed together and calling hoax. Trump seemingly supporting these protests. Awesome President, supporting civil disobedience against measures his own government applied so as not to isolate potential voters too biased to even think about pulling aside the curtain.
I'm convinced Alex Jones is just another shill along with the likes of David Icke put in place to make people think anyone that even mentions the word conspiracy is a lunatic.
They're "representative", in the political sense, of the people who celebrate them, and that's not an insignificant number.
It was mentioned here already, but I feel that coming up with a cure for the disease caused by this would be a better idea than pinning hopes on a vaccine at the minute anyway. I'm sure the both are being worked on everywhere, with little success (redensivir looks promising but still in trial stage) so far, unless success is counted as ruling lots of things out.
Also David Icke lol. The real pity about lads like him is that half of what he is saying could be going somewhere but then he makes a total fuck of it to the extent that nobody will believe any of it, even the bits that are actually true. His basic maths are 1+1= freemason lizard people, and now you mention it, MickO))), he would be a great way of getting a lot of theories rubbished. In fact as soon as the words "conspiracy theory" are attached to anything, it immediately becomes unbelievable to pretty much anyone and dismissed out of hand.
There was some shit on the telly the other evening about 2 lads who wanted to join the storm area 51 thing a while back, and along the way they were meeting all these witnesses/believers/ex workers and one chap they met claimed that he used to work in Area 51. So the lads asked him what exactly was his job there, and he said his job was to keep the flying saucer stories coming out of there to keep the general public thinking the existence of the place was a myth. He was the only person they met who didn't have a ufo t shirt on as well, and so I was naturally inclined not to write him off as quickly as the rest even though he had equal chance of being full of shit.
Alex Jones has recently admitted in his divorce case that he is a "performance artist" playing a character on Infowars.
https://time.com/4743025/alex-jones-infowars-divorce-donald-trump/
:laugh:
"The novel 2019 coronavirus is nature punishing the human race for keeping uncivilized living habits. I, Shi Zhengli, swear on my life that it has nothing to do with our laboratory". - Shi Zhengli
The father got out of hospital today with it. Weak as a kitten of course. Full recovery expected soon.
Quote from: hellfire on April 20, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
The father got out of hospital today with it. Weak as a kitten of course. Full recovery expected soon.
Good to hear man ::)
Quote from: hellfire on April 20, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
The father got out of hospital today with it. Weak as a kitten of course. Full recovery expected soon.
Good stuff.
Good to hear.
Nice one, Hellfire.
Pretty chuffed myself. Thanks lads.
That is good news indeed.
Good stuff, hope he has a speedy recovery from it.
Nice one!,
"The only means to fight the plague is honesty." Albert Camus, The Plague (1947)
Phuck you ChinaVirus.... :abbath:
A look at the updated graph with the latest deaths attributed to the correct days is optimistic viewing. It appears to have been steadily dropping over the last week. Also the number of new infections per day is following a similar trend. Where it will all end, who knows, and I still think there is likely to be a spike one of the days as the death rates should naturally follow a similar trend to infections only lagging behind by a week or two but I guess we won't know that until it happens. The clearing of the testing backlog is great news as we will have much more of an idea where we are at.
It's nice to see the language changing over the last couple of days towards the idea of getting things reopened and getting people back to work. I don't expect massive changes from May 5th regarding personal freedoms but I'd be surprised if it didn't involve some form of businesses opening. Perhaps at a reduced rate, but it will be interesting to see how the likes of Germany and Denmark fare out over the next 2 weeks as I expect ourselves to follow a similar pattern should it be a success for them.
It will be interesting to say the least that even with things coming back a bit, that social distancing and lack of gatherings will probably be the new normal for quite some time to come and I wonder how the world will look in 12 months time. It will be interesting to see how governments and authorities react to the new degree of social control they have been presented with. From what I hear and read, things like weekend A and E admissions have fallen off a cliff, arrests are way down too. How to respond to that coming back as things get going again will surely have to be looked at. The indirect effects of this virus will be discussed for a long time.
Lastly, good to hear about Hellfire's father. Must be some relief. Hopefully a lot more stories like that to come in the near future. Or even better hopefully a lot less stories like that, as less and less people need to be hospitalised due to falling infection rates. Fingers crossed.
Further to that comment "8377 people diagnosed with Covid-19 in Ireland who did not require hospital treatment have recovered from the virus, Dr Tony Holohan confirmed tonight.
That is 55 per cent of 15,186 confirmed cases."
Christ on a bike, our own rightwimg nutters replicating Trumppies outside the Four Courts today...
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0421/1132988-courts-appalled-large-numbers/
Assholes, put the new Garda spit masks on the lot of them and walk them across the road and over the edge...
And who else but John (Anything For A Headline) Waters and Gemma (Oh Just Fuck Off) O'Doherty would be the focus?
This being shocked and apauled bullshit... Crack down hard on these cunts simple as.
Quote from: hellfire on April 20, 2020, 07:51:05 PM
The father got out of hospital today with it. Weak as a kitten of course. Full recovery expected soon.
That's great news, a relief for all of ye
How long do you guys give it before money and greed take over and places start slowly reopening under the guise of being 'essential'
I think it has to come. Economic survival and perpetual lockdown don't go hand in hand but nobody wants to be remembered as the Taoiseach who brought great death. We'll continue flying in circles for a while but, sooner or later, I think the call will be made and doors will open up again. They're all praying like fuck for a vaccine. It isn't going to come from Jesus, sadly.
The long haul
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52389285
Human vaccine trials starting in Oxford today. Green shoots and all..
Quote from: Aborted on April 22, 2020, 10:05:04 PM
How long do you guys give it before money and greed take over and places start slowly reopening under the guise of being 'essential'
My guess is that will be the thing that happens from 5th of May. Not all in one go of course but I expect a lot of workplaces to open sooner rather than later more than any of the personal freedoms will come back. Surely the social distancing and limited range will apply for quite a while. There is no way the government can keep paying people 350 quid a week and I'd imagine a lot of shit will kick up if people are forced onto the dole by the governments own shutdown order. I don't see any way that will work when there won't be the tax base there to actually pay for the dole. Something has to give and money will almost certainly be the deciding factor, over other things like health and mental health.
There's never been a coronavirus before but according to the Bill Gates funded BBC the Jenner Institute in Oxford, also funded by Bill Gates, has come up with a vaccine in just 3 months and have said they're 80% confident the vaccine will work. Hip-horaah, we're saved....
BBC News - Coronavirus: First patients injected in UK vaccine trial
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52394485
See I hate when that shit goes out because idiots read it and will start bull rushing out again. Oh it's fine.. everything is cured so I can go to the pub again.
Well, not if the pubs are closed they can't. But it's all going to become very hard to police very soon.
Quote from: Aborted on April 22, 2020, 10:05:04 PM
How long do you guys give it before money and greed take over and places start slowly reopening under the guise of being 'essential'
You need to draw the line somewhere, though. As usual the discourse around this has developed into extremes. You have the numbskulls in the U.S. proudly flouncing all isolation measures, but people have extreme views on the other side too.
A lockdown was only ever meant to flatten the curve and take the strain off our health systems. However a sizeable minority of people have proactively gotten into policing this as a hobby - being Johnny Citizen has never been easier in a sense - and now seem to think we can't actually live the way we used to again until we eradicate coronavirus. This is fantasy. Without comparing the dangers of the two strains, imagine saying "we're going to keep a million plus on the dole until we've found that nobody catches seasonal influenza anymore".
I know that's not what you're saying, but I've spoken to numerous people with that kind of an attitude. I'm down for isolating for another few weeks or months myself. I'll do what's asked of me. But one thing that fucks me off is this "So it's the economy over lives is it?" maxim. At a certain breaking point, the economy
is lives. At least some measures will need to lift. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect to be going to the pub for the rest of the summer. Drinking on the roof of my gaf is cheaper anyway ;)
After one month of coronavirus lockdown, more than 50% of Los Angeles is now unemployed ->
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/more-than-50-los-angeles-workers-unemployed-due-to-coronavirus-2020-4?op=1&r=US&IR=T
Was reading that the five weeks worth of jobs destructions / furloughs since the onset of COVID19 pandemic is now greater than all jobs destroyed in all U.S. recessions from 1953 through 2009. I said at the start of the thread I thought there was a recession coming close anyway and covid19 pushed it into being. I don't think most people could stomach another decade of cuts and setbacks after 2008/2009 crash.
Economy aside, saw this and might be something positive ->
https://twitter.com/pdanahar/status/1253450509211533312
But I'd rather see peer reviewed studies....but not Trump as he suggests irradiating people's bodies with UV light or injecting them with bleach or alcohol to deal with COVID19. Reckon we will hear about some of his supporters dying due to this dangerous nonsense being spouted..
If this is hanging around for a long time, there's a decent chance any of us could catch it over the next 18 months. Think I mentioned this before but more studies coming out for Omega 3 / Vitamin D3 which I think are something to pay heed to (my 2 daily supplements).
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jpen.1672
A total of 49 studies with 3641 patients were included in the review and meta‐analysis (Omega-3 fatty acids lowered the risk of infection by 40%, reduced sepsis risk by 56%, and decreased both ICU and hospital stay by ~2 days in hospitalized patients)
Vitamin D3 (Study links in the youtube video description) ->
https://youtu.be/W5yVGmfivAk
For what it's worth, friend who works in "Big pharma" was saying more than likely we will find a combination of existing drugs that will help combat it rather than hoping for a vaccine first. He says big pharma is moving towards gene therapy rather than vaccinations as this is the way forward but those won't be ready until at least 2025.
I honestly wonder will anyone inject bleach. I wouldn't be surprised if someone does it. I wonder does the Vitamin D explain why Australia has such low numbers? Hopefully so, as I could certainly do with something to cling to. Somebody said to me today "When this is all over, we will have some party". "When?" I said, "I think you mean if". Cue the wind going straight out of her sails... "yeah....... if ".
I'm not anti vax at all, but I would be very reluctant to take any vaccine against this, it having been pretty much rushed through with no study of any long term effects. I'd be worried about some sort of Gulf War Syndrome type situation. The idea of a cure for those who get sick with this is much more appealing to me, but now I think of it that would probably similarly rushed through although it naturally wouldn't be given to anyone who wasn't actually sick so it still appeals more to me.
How happy we will all feel if we wake up some morning and the headline is "Cure Found". Saying that, lots of things look promising. Ivermectin being the latest one. I live in hope anyway.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 24, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
I honestly wonder will anyone inject bleach. I wouldn't be surprised if someone does it. I wonder does the Vitamin D explain why Australia has such low numbers? Hopefully so, as I could certainly do with something to cling to. Somebody said to me today "When this is all over, we will have some party". "When?" I said, "I think you mean if". Cue the wind going straight out of her sails... "yeah....... if ".
I'm not anti vax at all, but I would be very reluctant to take any vaccine against this, it having been pretty much rushed through with no study of any long term effects. I'd be worried about some sort of Gulf War Syndrome type situation. The idea of a cure for those who get sick with this is much more appealing to me, but now I think of it that would probably similarly rushed through although it naturally wouldn't be given to anyone who wasn't actually sick so it still appeals more to me.
How happy we will all feel if we wake up some morning and the headline is "Cure Found". Saying that, lots of things look promising. Ivermectin being the latest one. I live in hope anyway.
This situation isn't affecting you much.... :laugh:
Fair point!
Yeah it's frying the head off me to be fair. The erosion of personal freedom and the inevitable mass buyout that is coming along with probable years of recession and mass unemployment coupled with the fact that I am helpless to do anything about it is just not doing my head any good at all. Where I work has a bit to do with it as I am constantly exposed to the whole idea of it and I find it tough to get used to people jumping out of my way and watching everyone looking suspiciously at each other and seeing what fear does to people in general is disheartening. The greed. The fucking greed. And that is all without getting sick or losing anybody to this, which of course is a possibility and so many worldwide haven't been so lucky.
Having my life seemingly dictated to me by an unelected prick isn't helping either, even though it seems on the face of it that the government aren't making too bad a fist of it (for now) to be honest. Or are they? I don't know, all I see or read or hear is pushing one agenda or the other and who knows what is actually the truth in anything anymore. Not me anyway. The whole thing around the constant messages of support over the speakers telling me what a hero I am, even though all I'm doing is turning up to work as I always did. If I'm such a hero, pay me like one and fuck up about it. And the constant voices and signs telling everyone to do this that and the other and everyone following the lines on the ground and standing in the correct box all feels very weird and feels like an experiment in mass social control (whether it is or not is beside the point, it still feels like it) Everything feels like the dystopian future I have seen in so many futuristic science fiction movies over the years. And David Lynch is directing the media.
I know I'm always on this thread, but bouncing my thoughts around here and discussing or even having them shot down here and there as well is helping a bit. I also don't really feel like there is an agenda being pushed here, just discussion so I come here to bang on about it.
So yeah, fuck. I really hope for the cure.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 23, 2020, 11:33:59 PM
Well, not if the pubs are closed they can't. But it's all going to become very hard to police very soon.
The pub closure thing is terrible and I rarely frequent them these days. A lot won't reopen. The longer this drags out less and less of them will. Let's face it tourists don't come here because we're a grand bunch. The majority come here to get trashed and take a few photos.
tbh I think i've been very anti going out and get really irritated when I see people doing it and interacting with others. Probably to extreme but I guess I'm just of the mindset.. if I can do it why can't you.
I'm honestly trying to not look at anymore of that shit in america or people on social media who keep doing shit like nothings changed as it just gets me so angry.. I guess because it feels like they continue doing this and maybe continue to spread this shit which in turn keeps us in this fucked up situation for a longer time frame.
I guess I'm also not really taking into account the overall financial impact its going to have on the country/world going forward, well at least not to the extent I should have using common sense. I don't know, it's just difficult for me to process the actions of other people at this time. For myself I'll just take it as I did what I could to help in whatever little way it helps. I'm also so lucky to have been starting a new job and that its in an industry that can do pretty well during something like this and also allows for me to work from home in the process.
So many other people are in worse positions.
So, it looks like our beloved government are going to impose another two week lockdown this Friday.
Sorry Leo and friends, but the people have already voted with their feet if where I live is anything to go by. I live in the centre of town and it has been jammers every day so far this week.
The government's saving grace may be that the weather is going to turn and it looks like rain is on the way.
Here in Spain they've decided to let people out to exercise from Saturday. Kids have been out a few days now. It's a total fait accompli though, people just go out with a shopping bag as a prop and head out as much as they want, I mean what can the cops say to you?
I'm a secondary school teacher and I'm not going back until September at the earliest. 12 hours a week of classes on zoom, bit of homework by email, the rest of the time is mine. It's not a bad deal for us, but the parents, jaysus, fucking nightmare.
Eoin and the other teachers, how are ye keeping up with classes, homework etc? Secretly delighted?
Thoroughly fucking burnt out on this corona fucking bullshite at this stage. 5 weeks stuck at home. Groundhog day. Fuck all cash. It's a pain in the ring and I hope it either fucks off soon or we just start to live around it. The sooner things begin to normalise the better. The economic stress on the country can't go on much longer or by the time they relax the measures there'll be no jobs left to go back to.
Is it 5 weeks or 6. I'm trying to keep track that it's a weekday by watching the Jeremy Vine show (but that Scottish Lassie is a bonnie one). Saturday is a just eat and Sunday is a roast.
On the upside process is going really well toilet training my 2 year old. He does drive me mad though.
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on April 29, 2020, 09:29:46 AM
I'm trying to keep track that it's a weekday by watching the Jeremy Vine show... Saturday is a just eat and Sunday is a roast.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I'm busier than ever, with working from home.
Plus! We were 75% into an extension build before this shite happened, so all that is pretty much on hold at the moment. But herself still has me run ragged in the evenings and weekends doing the smaller things we can do ourselves...
I have to admit, though... It does put a smile on my face to actually get shit done around the house and garden.
Loads of veg in the ground on time... spuds, onions and more are shooting up nicely.
If you exclude tiny places like San Marino, Andorra, etc., Ireland now ranks 7th in deaths per million.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 29, 2020, 09:09:26 AM
So, it looks like our beloved government are going to impose another two week lockdown this Friday.
Sorry Leo and friends, but the people have already voted with their feet if where I live is anything to go by. I live in the centre of town and it has been jammers every day so far this week.
The government's saving grace may be that the weather is going to turn and it looks like rain is on the way.
Where is this being reported ?
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 29, 2020, 09:19:28 AM
Here in Spain they've decided to let people out to exercise from Saturday. Kids have been out a few days now. It's a total fait accompli though, people just go out with a shopping bag as a prop and head out as much as they want, I mean what can the cops say to you?
I'm a secondary school teacher and I'm not going back until September at the earliest. 12 hours a week of classes on zoom, bit of homework by email, the rest of the time is mine. It's not a bad deal for us, but the parents, jaysus, fucking nightmare.
Eoin and the other teachers, how are ye keeping up with classes, homework etc? Secretly delighted?
I'll admit I have been secretly delighted at times. But the more it goes on the stranger things are. We set up google classroom the week before Easter. There was
maybe 50% engagement with the stuff I put up (about 20 out of 28 logged on, 13 or 14 uploaded the finished work). Since then, even that low figure has plummeted. At a glance it looks like only 2 out of 28 are doing any of the work. The 8 of the 28 that go to a Learning support - none of them have even logged in, let alone started any of the work. And I'm not even giving new material in Maths cos some parents would either be pissed off at taking that responsibility, some simply wouldn't be able to teach the stuff. I give them a short research project every week in History/Geography/etc. I've yet to have one sent back to me. One parent hung up the phone when the school rang to get them to get their son to log on. Typically, this was a parent who came in earlier in the year to give out about me :laugh:
At the risk of sounding like a 'in my day' auld fella, the brazen, cheeky bastard carry on of some parents these days is unreal (hi). Occasionally, you get a justifiable complaint (the biology teacher threatened to, literally, shove a lynx can up a young lads hole after he sprayed it in another lads eye, and the Spanish language teacher is an old boy with the most explosive temper, tells the lads to 'shut the fuck up' etc quite regularly) but most of them are just bullshit. One mother accused a teacher of having it in for her daughter and calling her an incompetent, a hysteric etc for ringing her about the kid constantly arriving 15/20 minutes late in the morning. Went straight to the headmaster with that load of shite. Spastic of a woman.
Or new, young teachers getting complaints about 'lack of class control' in their first few weeks in the job. Think back to your own school days, how much respect did you show the subs, new or, in particular, young female teachers? Exactly, fuck all. I mean would you be arsed?
My Da told me if he got a slap from a teacher, he'd get the same off his father if he found out. Now you can't even call them spastics without Mammy ringing you in the evening to give you a dressing down.
Haha, all accurate and true. But look, I wouldn't be trying to force a workload on the lads anyway. Parents at home have enough going on. I'm just putting the work online so the parents can tell the kids to do an hour's work and take an hour to themselves. Some teachers are going mental. My lad's teacher is sending a hape of work, grand, I wouldn't usually question a teacher's methods but she's giving new concepts in Maths. There's a very large assumption there that parents understand the topic and ear able to teach it. Anything important will be caught up on. It's easy to find the time once you put nonsense subjects on the back burner for a while.
My chap is about ages with yours, and he has a daft amount to do aswell. His mother is fanatical about him speaking and writing perfect Polish and has his heart broken with it giving him extra exercises to do.
I teach art as well as English, they thankfully just knocked it on the head for now, impossible to teach via zoom. The music lad has done the square root of fuck all for 6 weeks, the lucky bastard 🤣
I got the young lad a subscription to that yousician app, which ihe thankfully isn't viewing as work.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 29, 2020, 09:20:53 AM
Thoroughly fucking burnt out on this corona fucking bullshite at this stage. 5 weeks stuck at home. Groundhog day.
I'm at 7 weeks. My parents 9 weeks as they would be quite vulnerable to it. The start of this thread I was constantly looking up everything coronavirus related since January. Wasn't sustainable in the slightest as I was burnt out very quickly by March and now I just catch the Irish daily case/death figures and any major incidents in the evening.
I reckon Government will try as hard as possible to keep most restrictions in place for May and by June probably will have no choice but to try and lessen them on a bi-weekly basis. By July/August we could see most businesses back open (with exception of pubs/sports/events/large gathering type stuff etc). I just hope we don't see "the big fish eating the little fish" scenario, big chain pubs absorbing the landscape and the like. Same in Aviation, a lot of consolidation will be at play.
Social distancing will be with us for a long long time. Masks should be handed out, proven to help but they would rather lie than say it was about resource prioritisation for health sector, just can't trust the general public, I guess when you see them out on the roads doing rock the boat you question everything...
Hopefully the ideas of co-living tenements FG want to inflict upon us will be torched and cast aside. We can't let a lot of things that were present in the old system come back with a vengeance. I'd hate the thought of certain sectors destroyed by this outbreak/lockdown to be transformed into a gig type economy. The huge downsides to Airbnb were laid bare with the 3000+ properties coming back to the rental market. I don't mind someone with a spare room or two getting extra income every weekend or so but whole vacant properties? Get the fuck. I know most of my posts on this thread since have been economically slanted but it's down to the science communities to either get drug treatments, race for a vaccine (which seems to be a much harder goal now considering the worst case scenario seems more likely due to constant mutation like influenza) or we wait even further down the line for gene therapies to become fruitful. That side is out of our control.
More and more people will question "At what point it will be more detrimental to continue in full lockdown?" Not sure myself when that exact point is but I find it hard to see how we can keep the majority in beyond another month.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 29, 2020, 09:20:53 AM
Thoroughly fucking burnt out on this corona fucking bullshite at this stage. 5 weeks stuck at home. Groundhog day. Fuck all cash. It's a pain in the ring and I hope it either fucks off soon or we just start to live around it. The sooner things begin to normalise the better. The economic stress on the country can't go on much longer or by the time they relax the measures there'll be no jobs left to go back to.
I agree. We're playing a dangerous fucking game with this in more ways than one. There'll be pressure from the new breed of "I saw someone walking their dog in the park the other day. Wonder how they'd feel if their mother or father died from this?" patriots, though. Being a hero's never been so easy, in many ways, for some people. Sit on your arse, get the pandemic unemployment benefit ("What a whacky phrase!" - 2019) and give out on the internet.
Edit: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/revealed-phased-plan-to-exit-coronavirus-lockdown-in-ireland-may-see-cafes-reopen-by-midsummer-1.4240404
The phased plan, apparently. It's going to be a weird summer.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 29, 2020, 10:50:00 AM
At the risk of sounding like a 'in my day' auld fella, the brazen, cheeky bastard carry on of some parents these days is unreal (hi). Occasionally, you get a justifiable complaint (the biology teacher threatened to, literally, shove a lynx can up a young lads hole after he sprayed it in another lads eye, and the Spanish language teacher is an old boy with the most explosive temper, tells the lads to 'shut the fuck up' etc quite regularly) but most of them are just bullshit. One mother accused a teacher of having it in for her daughter and calling her an incompetent, a hysteric etc for ringing her about the kid constantly arriving 15/20 minutes late in the morning. Went straight to the headmaster with that load of shite. Spastic of a woman.
Or new, young teachers getting complaints about 'lack of class control' in their first few weeks in the job. Think back to your own school days, how much respect did you show the subs, new or, in particular, young female teachers? Exactly, fuck all. I mean would you be arsed?
My Da told me if he got a slap from a teacher, he'd get the same off his father if he found out. Now you can't even call them spastics without Mammy ringing you in the evening to give you a dressing down.
its only when my eldest fella started going to school is where i started to chat to other parents,loads of them are busy body cunts.We all love our kids and want the best for them,but fuck me loads of parents have zero cop on,the sun shines out their kids arses etc.
I know my young fella can be a handfull,if some teacher has to tell him to shut the fuck up,its ok by me.
As bad as things are now it's even scarier seeing all these ideas floating around about immunity passports, forced apps on phones tracking you wherever you go and telling you who has and hasn't been vaccinated. It will just be like 9/11 governments will advertise it as a temporary loss of more privacy in the name of the greater good but once things die down the new restrictions will still remain in place. It's coming close to the point of no return and people need to put their foot down and say enough is enough.
The next big row now will be who should get a vaccine first and then rows between those who do and don't want to be vaccinated.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2020, 10:01:02 AM
If you exclude tiny places like San Marino, Andorra, etc., Ireland now ranks 7th in deaths per million.
I saw something the other day that we were worse than America? Could you post the link you got it from? Curious to see how it all stacks up.
I just got it through the main site I guess most people are using to follow the numbers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
By clicking on the name of any column, it'll rearrange the whole table according to decreasing order of those figures; so 'Deaths/1M pop' in this case. Then just pan back across left to see the country names. San Marino and places like that are up high because their tiny populations make 'per million' a nonsense statistical concept.
Right at this second, that puts Ireland 8th (because some countries have declared already today, but not Ireland) and the US 10th.
Government announced here in Switzerland today that restaurants can open again from May 11th - with distancing protocols in place of course. I believe the Swiss football teams will be back training then too, and all remaining shops can open.
Most shops opened as of Monday just passed there. Finally got a haircut after 9 weeks!
Quote from: StandupPaul on April 29, 2020, 04:46:24 PM
Government announced here in Switzerland today that restaurants can open again from May 11th - with distancing protocols in place of course. I believe the Swiss football teams will be back training then too, and all remaining shops can open.
Most shops opened as of Monday just passed there. Finally got a haircut after 9 weeks!
Ring our Leo will ya lad...
Quote from: Blizzard Beast on April 29, 2020, 10:16:39 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 29, 2020, 09:09:26 AM
So, it looks like our beloved government are going to impose another two week lockdown this Friday.
Sorry Leo and friends, but the people have already voted with their feet if where I live is anything to go by. I live in the centre of town and it has been jammers every day so far this week.
The government's saving grace may be that the weather is going to turn and it looks like rain is on the way.
Where is this being reported ?
https://www.buzz.ie/news/lockdown-ireland-set-two-week-extension-according-reports-366219
Grim.....
Quote from: Paul keohane on April 29, 2020, 03:08:38 PM
I know my young fella can be a handfull,if some teacher has to tell him to shut the fuck up,its ok by me.
On a similar note to that, my young lad was climbing on top of the neighbours car and the lad didn't want to tell him to get the fuck off it in case he'd upset me or the wife. I gave him full permission to tell him him to get the fuck if he sees him doing it again. It's a good summation of a lot of things that are wrong with the world that he was more worried about the parents' possible bad reaction than the young lad denting his motor.
Back on topic and regarding this 2 week extension thing, do any of ye think that the reports coming out now are somewhat like the pre budget leaks coming out every year? Like it always says that fuel is going up by 20 cent for example and when it goes up by 10 cent instead we are relieved rather than infuriated. Unless one happens to be a smoker in which case you're in for it no matter what but in general it's to try give a soft landing by sending out possibly worse scenarios. So in this case, let everyone think it is the same degree of lockdown for another 2 weeks at least by the leaks and then give something nearly as bad but slightly less so to make it more palatable. I sincerely hope that is the case anyway.
Personally I foresee a lot of people going back to work after the bank holiday but social restrictions outside of that still fully applying which ok isn't great for a lot of people but fuck it if it works it works. If we fuck this up now it would be like defaulting on the last finance payment on the car or something and all the previous work will be for nothing.
Lastly, one of those he said she said stories but I was talking to a fella says he is good pals with a Garda sergeant and said Garda reckons the government will try to get the May and June bank holidays out of the way before lifting any restrictions on movement. Which could obviously be a load of shit but makes sense as although most of us will do what we see to be the right thing to affect a return to any degree of normality, there are pricks everywhere who will ruin it for us all if not strictly policed and will be throwing parties and the like and other general types of skullduggery.
you've just equated people socialising with skullduggery. you don't need police if you're policing your own neighbours.
6 weeks to enact 1984.
I'm pretty sure you have an idea of what I actually meant there, but sure choose to pick a word instead and run with it rather than contribute to any discussion of the general point. I feel most people should be able to socialise perfectly well in a manner which reduces the chance of spreading this thing, but then there are the door handle lickers and coughers and spitters who are too clever for anything as socially evolved as copping the fuck on.
If you were to go back and read my previous post in this very thread a couple of pages back, it would give you an idea of my general thinking on the whole thing. Obviously I feel you have taken me up wrong entirely.
As I mentioned on the previous page, the government/cops are absolutely blessed that the weather isn't looking great for this weekend.
People are out in force already. The sitting at home and being obedient to the government's lockdown wishes seem to be over in many people's minds.
Our whole company is resuming work fully on Tuesday as far as I know. It's being confirmed on Friday I heard....
I hear a lot of businesses and workplaces are gearing up for getting back to business on Tuesday. It seems to be the general tone of the leaks coming from the government's private meetings anyway.
And you are right, everyone is already out doing their thing anyway in anticipation of the lifting of restrictions. I see a lot of it here anyway but I also see that most are doing it in a way that seems mindful of reducing transmission. I think myself that most of what we are seeing now regarding new cases is actually in nursing homes and the like and the fact that most people aren't seeing their friends neighbours workmates etc actually getting sick at this stage seems to reinforce that idea. I'm not saying nobody is getting sick outside of those settings because I don't know if they are or not but I think the rate of transmission for the general public is a lot lower at this stage than the figures would have us believe. Not that it would do the government any good to admit that it is themselves who have failed before any of this even kicked off here rather than the general public so they will have to keep trotting out the total figure every evening on their RTE news rather than the active figure or exactly where the cases are occurring or anything like that. You have to dig a bit to find all that stuff and a lot of folks won't do that digging, the simple headline will be enough for them.
I have a friend (hard to believe, I know) who works in construction, says he's been filling out hse forms for travel and is due back in work on Tuesday. I think similar is happening for others that work outdoors.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 29, 2020, 05:42:33 PM
I'm pretty sure you have an idea of what I actually meant there, but sure choose to pick a word instead and run with it rather than contribute to any discussion of the general point. I feel most people should be able to socialise perfectly well in a manner which reduces the chance of spreading this thing, but then there are the door handle lickers and coughers and spitters who are too clever for anything as socially evolved as copping the fuck on.
If you were to go back and read my previous post in this very thread a couple of pages back, it would give you an idea of my general thinking on the whole thing. Obviously I feel you have taken me up wrong entirely.
I was trying to make the point that it's a battle of a 1000 small mental adjustments being inflicted every day on the average person. Before you know it your actual beliefs become something else. I wasn't necessarily saying you've gone full Orwell, just that every tiny moment online can move us in a better or worse direction. I usually hate loud messy social events, but they're kind of good for telling the government to fuck off to an extent, which is a necessary part of the social contract even in these strange times.
Im prepared to accept others won't see it that way.
Quote from: Emphyrio on April 29, 2020, 11:01:02 AM
Haha, all accurate and true. But look, I wouldn't be trying to force a workload on the lads anyway. Parents at home have enough going on. I'm just putting the work online so the parents can tell the kids to do an hour's work and take an hour to themselves. Some teachers are going mental. My lad's teacher is sending a hape of work, grand, I wouldn't usually question a teacher's methods but she's giving new concepts in Maths. There's a very large assumption there that parents understand the topic and ear able to teach it. Anything important will be caught up on. It's easy to find the time once you put nonsense subjects on the back burner for a while.
I'm a secondary teacher in a DEIS school in Dublin - I leave work for the week on the Monday and if they want to do it happy days and if not I really don't care. People might say that's a bad attitude to have but when you're in the job long enough you realise that kids, results wise, are going to get what they are going to get and you may be able to swing that 5percent . The worst year by far for doing work online are my 6th yrs ironically enough. But there's teachers losing their reasoning because kids aren't engaging - that makes no sense to me to be honest.
Quote from: mugz on April 29, 2020, 08:01:18 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 29, 2020, 05:42:33 PM
I'm pretty sure you have an idea of what I actually meant there, but sure choose to pick a word instead and run with it rather than contribute to any discussion of the general point. I feel most people should be able to socialise perfectly well in a manner which reduces the chance of spreading this thing, but then there are the door handle lickers and coughers and spitters who are too clever for anything as socially evolved as copping the fuck on.
If you were to go back and read my previous post in this very thread a couple of pages back, it would give you an idea of my general thinking on the whole thing. Obviously I feel you have taken me up wrong entirely.
I was trying to make the point that it's a battle of a 1000 small mental adjustments being inflicted every day on the average person. Before you know it your actual beliefs become something else. I wasn't necessarily saying you've gone full Orwell, just that every tiny moment online can move us in a better or worse direction. I usually hate loud messy social events, but they're kind of good for telling the government to fuck off to an extent, which is a necessary part of the social contract even in these strange times.
Im prepared to accept others won't see it that way.
Ok I get that more now. I agree with what you are saying and I also would enjoy a good round of telling the government to go fuck themselves but I do feel that if the public get the transmission rate down by doing the recommended things for now and if that actually works we will all be in a much better position to get out and explain to them our general disappointment with their buzz. I also feel that there is a lot of terribly convenient methods of surveillance and intrusion of privacy and erosion of personal freedoms being introduced behind our backs while we are all looking at the daily figures. That element of things is truly frightening and bodes very badly for the future. It will take quite a while for the full picture of what has been done to emerge but there is certainly every possible angle of agenda being pushed in the meantime.
Regarding the right to messy public protest situations I think it's a pity that if Waters and pals had anything of note to say that they fucked it up badly for themselves by not doing it in a publicly palatable fashion as they were bound to upset anybody working in the health service or anybody who has caught the virus or lost someone to it, or lost their business, or lost their job or are in danger of losing their home in the future as a result of the impending downturn. Those idiots lost any point they may have been making by their actions and if anything only served to reinforce the general belief that anybody not doing exactly as they are told is endangering us all, further adding to the situation of turning neighbour against neighbour and increasing the sense of, and appetite for public self policing. They could surely have made their protest as loudly as they liked while observing social distancing measures and bending the rules to their will rather than openly flouting them.
Quote from: Bogmetaller on April 29, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on April 29, 2020, 11:01:02 AM
Haha, all accurate and true. But look, I wouldn't be trying to force a workload on the lads anyway. Parents at home have enough going on. I'm just putting the work online so the parents can tell the kids to do an hour's work and take an hour to themselves. Some teachers are going mental. My lad's teacher is sending a hape of work, grand, I wouldn't usually question a teacher's methods but she's giving new concepts in Maths. There's a very large assumption there that parents understand the topic and ear able to teach it. Anything important will be caught up on. It's easy to find the time once you put nonsense subjects on the back burner for a while.
I'm a secondary teacher in a DEIS school in Dublin - I leave work for the week on the Monday and if they want to do it happy days and if not I really don't care. People might say that's a bad attitude to have but when you're in the job long enough you realise that kids, results wise, are going to get what they are going to get and you may be able to swing that 5percent . The worst year by far for doing work online are my 6th yrs ironically enough. But there's teachers losing their reasoning because kids aren't engaging - that makes no sense to me to be honest.
100% man. I'm in a DEIS school too and quite frankly if the parents don't give a fuck, their kids are highly unlikely to either. Cunts don't give a fuck about perpetuating the cycle.
100% man. I'm in a DEIS school too and quite frankly if the parents don't give a fuck, their kids are highly unlikely to either. Cunts don't give a fuck about perpetuating the cycle.
[/quote]
Exactly but it's the teachers who get wound up in a school like that that drive me cracked. Bad and all as this may sound but I'm treating this as something of a paid vacation - but I'm lucky in that there isn't a push on because we are a deis school. Naturally I would rather be working and I miss it too but I won't be stressing because only 2 out of 24 handed up their work. It's their education so if they don't want to do the work it's their loss.
Either your staff is more dedicated or naive than ours. Jaysus, in our place we've all come to terms with the fact that there's only so much you can do. Suffice to say, we aren't stressing :laugh:
Quote from: Bogmetaller on April 29, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on April 29, 2020, 11:01:02 AM
Haha, all accurate and true. But look, I wouldn't be trying to force a workload on the lads anyway. Parents at home have enough going on. I'm just putting the work online so the parents can tell the kids to do an hour's work and take an hour to themselves. Some teachers are going mental. My lad's teacher is sending a hape of work, grand, I wouldn't usually question a teacher's methods but she's giving new concepts in Maths. There's a very large assumption there that parents understand the topic and ear able to teach it. Anything important will be caught up on. It's easy to find the time once you put nonsense subjects on the back burner for a while.
I'm a secondary teacher in a DEIS school in Dublin - I leave work for the week on the Monday and if they want to do it happy days and if not I really don't care. People might say that's a bad attitude to have but when you're in the job long enough you realise that kids, results wise, are going to get what they are going to get and you may be able to swing that 5percent . The worst year by far for doing work online are my 6th yrs ironically enough. But there's teachers losing their reasoning because kids aren't engaging - that makes no sense to me to be honest.
I have a 14 year old who was very conscientious about keeping up with her schoolwork for the first number of weeks and engages with all of the online classes etc but the longer this goes on with her having no social outlet beyond her phone I can see this is rotting her brain, she is getting less enthusiastic by the day and I agree the teachers shouldn't be losing their shit about it because it is to be expected. I think you have the right attitude to it.
Imagine being her age, not being sick, doing everything she can since the first day of this getting here and then not allowed to even go inside a lot of the shops regardless of if she will play by the rules or not and feeling generally criminalised when in fact it is not her age who are the greatest carriers, it is the 20 to 40 age range roughly as shown where testing has been widespread. I can only imagine how I'd feel having a year basically written off from my teenage years, I would be extremely bitter at the world in general.
I have an 11 year old young lad who was into soccer gaa hurling athletics basketball basically any sport that was put to him, and now he has fuck all. For 2 months. Think of the slow passage of time as a kid and how long this must feel to them, think of the delight of meeting your friends for the bit of bollixing in the evenings and at the weekends, and all suddenly taken away. And he does his school work and i make him do it but he has zero enthusiasm (well he didn't love it anyway) and I can't blame him (now) either. Not that I'd tell him that or he'd go to the bad altogether. But yeah, teachers shouldn't be expecting any better from the kids than what they are getting.
You've actually made a point that I never though of and hadn't heard mentioned - namely the fact that time goes an awful lot slower for those of a younger age. Had never thought of that but it makes you realise how bad this is for kids :-\
Àye, all that is perfectly fair. In many senses it's way worse for kids. There's a significant part of me that has no problem not having to interact with the world outside. Different kettle of fish for kids, and teenagers in particular. Imagine the amount of young wans not being able to even get the shift!
Quote from: Emphyrio on April 29, 2020, 09:58:31 PM
Àye, all that is perfectly fair. In many senses it's way worse for kids. There's a significant part of me that has no problem not having to interact with the world outside. Different kettle of fish for kids, and teenagers in particular. Imagine the amount of young wans not being able to even get the shift!
The smell of their fingers must be brrrrrrutal.. :abbath:
Quote from: Emphyrio on April 29, 2020, 09:58:31 PM
Imagine the amount of young wans not being able to even get the shift!
Yeah that and the sheer level of crispy boomerang socks hiding under young lads beds must be frightening but then that would be business as usual for lads going through the sick years!
:laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
I just got it through the main site I guess most people are using to follow the numbers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
There were are looking down on the US and other places when we're really doing as badly as Sweden. The country with almost no measures.
Quote from: hellfire on April 29, 2020, 11:36:02 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
I just got it through the main site I guess most people are using to follow the numbers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
There were are looking down on the US and other places when we're really doing as badly as Sweden. The country with almost no measures.
Stop saying things that don't fit the narrative it's demoralising for our beloved taoiseach and health minister!
Quote from: astfgyl on April 30, 2020, 12:20:07 AM
Quote from: hellfire on April 29, 2020, 11:36:02 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2020, 03:59:46 PM
I just got it through the main site I guess most people are using to follow the numbers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
There were are looking down on the US and other places when we're really doing as badly as Sweden. The country with almost no measures.
Stop saying things that don't fit the narrative it's demoralising for our beloved taoiseach and health minister!
narrative is the right word
Tipperary is at a 4 year low for deaths from all causes according to the front page of the Tipp Star today.
Another month of hard locking down and a couple of years of hard recession to follow should teach the residents to behave in future. Tony Holohan himself has said this morning that he would not advise any easing of restrictions based on the latest figures. I wonder how many other counties are in a similar position to Tipp and need to be taught a further lesson as they will not cop the fuck on.
Joking aside, I would be very interested to see the detailed breakdown of where and when the infections and deaths have occurred, as it seems nobody is very forthcoming with the exact figures. My own thinking on this is that once it becomes apparent that a lot of the current problems are of the government's own making and the failings are in fact going back over a number of years that they will have a lot of questions to answer (or skirt around without ever answering or accepting responsibility) and discontent will fester in response. But that is my own feeling and maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong.
Reading this https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html has fostered my discontent a lot. There are a lot of similarities with ourselves there but they haven't crippled whole sectors of the economy, just done the sensible thing, put trust in the public. have shut down all visits to nursing homes but generally left the rest of the country to get on with it and as usual we are left wondering why they can get it right but we can't. Interestingly, as with ourselves their main issue has been in the nursing homes and lack of PPE there rather than people turning up off the street sick and dying.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 30, 2020, 03:56:48 PM
I would be very interested to see the detailed breakdown of where and when the infections and deaths have occurred, as it seems nobody is very forthcoming with the exact figures.
Nobody is hiding them either:
https://www.gov.ie/en/service/0039bc-view-the-covid-19-coronavirus-dashboard-showing-the-latest-stats-and/
https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/29dc1fec79164c179d18d8e53df82e96
Sound, I'll have a read of those now and see how far wrong I am
Edit: Had a look at those there now and that is nowhere near the level of detail that is required to see the true picture but thanks anyway. In fact it is very scant on certain details. It would take a lot more specifics by age range such as hospitalisation and mortality rate and exactly where or in what setting these occurred. Maybe the details I am looking for haven't been collated yet.
That page is quite frustrating indeed, I've given up on trying to get any kind of information on anything local. It's quite vague in that respect, for all its talk of detailed figures, maps etc.
It also doesn't give the number of active cases per county, or in total. I know that somebody has all the detailed stats I am after but I will have to give the benefit of doubt for now and suppose it isn't collated, although it is difficult not to be a little suspicious as to why extremely detailed stats are not readily available.
It seems to be very difficult to get proper figures anywhere and now it's coming out that lots of deaths are just being classed as corona deaths even though they weren't so who knows what the real numbers are.
Not corna related but it will be very interesting to see how this General Flynn / James Comey thing plays out. It could be the start of something huge.
What's the Flynn/Comey thing?
This thread is sprawling enough, take the Comey thing elsewhere :abbath:
What do you mean by deaths classed as covid "even though they weren't" though? That could mean a couple of things.
:abbath: gwan ourrovih
I reckon he is alluding to the idea that maybe some people that died of other causes, but also had C19 were classed as dying of it, even though they strictly might not have and it might be more that they died with it. Like say someone dies of a heart attack or something not CV related but they were an asymptomatic carrier, they will in the current course of things be classed as a C19 death regardless of whether that killed them or not. For example if I have a common cold and die of liver failure due to years of self abuse, what did I die of? I think he means that sort of thing. Of course I accept that will take a long to become clear or it might never become clear at all, but the current classification says that if you have it and you also die, then you died of it.
Quote from: Pedrito on April 30, 2020, 09:02:03 PM
What's the Flynn/Comey thing?
He was Trumps advisor, forced to take a plea bargain and resign over the whole Russia thing following news reports about his communications with the Russian ambassador. But its coming out now that the FBI doctored evidence in his case, his own lawyer withheld exculpatory evidence that would have proved him innocent and Robert Muller threatened him and his son to try to get them to give false evidence against Trump.
Apparently Flynn has a lot of dirt on people as well but is currently under a gag order as part of the plea bargain he was forced into. Once he is cleared he will be free to share all this stuff with the world.
Trump has mentioned him a few times over the last few weeks in his press conferences calling the people that convicted him human scum.
So this could get the ball rolling and lead back to a lot of very high profile people. Of course very little mainstream media coverage about the whole thing even though it could end up being one of the biggest political scandal of all time.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 30, 2020, 09:06:00 PM
What do you mean by deaths classed as covid "even though they weren't" though? That could mean a couple of things.
I read a news article that said people who had corona then died of something unrelated were being classed as corona deaths and then another article saying that most deaths even when the person wasn't tested were being classed as corona deaths as well because autopsies were are not being performed.
Historically, how do you think death numbers for Spanish flu, etc., were calculated? There's always a huge part of estimation involved, during an epidemic most deaths significantly above the average for the time of year will be attributed to the epidemic disease. It's not feasible to carry out autopsies on everyone when in many places even the funeral homes can't cope with the surge.
As for the difference between dying from and dying with, it seems clear, again from the surges, that COVID-19 is at the very least accelerating people towards the grave. So, do you say Joe Bloggs died of X or of X accelerated by COVID-19? Causally speaking, that's not an easy question to answer.
If a certain amount of people are asymptomatic, it stands to reason that a number of asymptomatic cases will be reported as dying with it regardless of the actual cause of death and who knows it might not even have accelerated any given asymptomatic case towards fatality or it might have accelerated them all to it. I agree that is not an easy question to answer and I honestly think we may never get to the bottom of it. I don't think it is clear cut at all or that it ever will be. Certainly an interesting facet to the debate though.
Do you play chess at all?
Looking forward to hearing tonight's announcement of the roadmap to recovery?
I can't get this out of me head the last few weeks, but I don't think I will get any result tonight...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kk5iXZFaCQ&t=58s
So much for Tipperary related sarcasm:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/01/covid-19-outbreaks-at-irish-meat-plants-raise-fears-over-worker-safety
That's me told so. I shall endeavour to temper my sarcasm in the future.
And yet the fact remains that Tipperary has its' lowest amount of deaths for the last 4 years this year so far. Also, when did these test happen? How many of the workers died? Was correct social distancing applied? Was the correct PPE provided? So many questions, so few answers, such scant data....
Is this failure the fault of the common citizen or of large business interests?
Schools closed til September. Twas expected but still. Mad stuff.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 01, 2020, 06:47:37 PM
That's me told so. I shall endeavour to temper my sarcasm in the future.
And yet the fact remains that Tipperary has its' lowest amount of deaths for the last 4 years this year so far. Also, when did these test happen? How many of the workers died? Was correct social distancing applied? Was the correct PPE provided? So many questions, so few answers, such scant data....
Is this failure the fault of the common citizen or of large business interests?
The test results must be very recent, since the official communiqué was yesterday. Whether any die will yet to be seen. This could be just the start of a cluster in Tipperary, and so on and so forth.
Strange line of questioning, tbh.
I don't see how that is a strange line of questioning at all. I really don't think that a truly clear picture of what is going on is being given by the published figures and I suspect that is designed to hide failings of the likes of the HSE, the government and say the owners of that factory there and none of that fits with the party line of we are all misbehaving and don't deserve to be trusted with a little bit of freedom. But not only that either as I can see why that mightn't be published in detail as the likelihood of it leading to public disobedience would surely have to be taken into account and the risk of that happening and spiking the numbers again probably wouldn't be worth it. I didn't see any major jump of 120 being reported here in the last week. My hunch, which is of course open to being wrong, is that these are going back a bit and I doubt it is at the start and in fact more likely at the finish of a cluster there.
Leaving that aside for a minute, what you make of this? https://www.ovulation-calculators.com/coronavirus/ie/tipperary/#reports
I have no idea where they are getting their data as I can't seem to find it by myself that there are no deaths in Tipp. Seems odd as I would have expected a few in the nursing homes here at the very least.
Edit: Ah here hang on, those figures are all over the place sure the population of Tipp is listed as 4,976
As I was trying to get across, it seems likely those numbers haven't entered the official tally yet:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0501/1135981-covid-19-cases-plant/
Seemingly so. Well actually so.
I stand corrected. There was no fate but that which I made for myself.
So now I'm wondering how many of those that have tested positive are actually sick or are asymptomatic. Again, I really want better data. Most likely so I can bend the figures to my own personal narrative.
Try to set aside your narrative and just read the material! They said 140 were off sick last week. Maybe a few fakers in there, but if you're off sick, presumably there are symptoms.
Ah I don't think the level of chancers going for the covid payment would have any major effect there if that many tested positive. It could have been a case of employees themselves taking action and staying away once they had the word it was in the factory but there is no way to know that anyway.
I would still like to see all statistics presented in a much more comprehensive fashion. I would like to see what figures the NPHET are working with. I'd like to see a detailed breakdown of all areas and mortality rates and generally much more transparency as to how the decisions which affect us all here are being arrived at, even if as in this case, it proves me wrong. Who knows, maybe it would even make a supporter of me! Well...
Was reading this one from Aljazeera website regarding Spain and Catalonia and couldn't help finding it a bit funny, though I doubt the Catalans found it terribly amusing...
"Recent bones of contention range from Catalan president Quim Torra's serious reticence over the relaxing of lockdown for non-essential workers to a protest from the region's interior minister, Miquel Buch, over Spain sending exactly 1,714,000 face masks to Catalonia - which he claimed could be a deliberate coincidence with the defeat of separatist forces in Barcelona back in 1714. "
An awfully coincidental number there!
Lastly, on a completely different note and following from last nights announcement that barbers are to remain closed for the next few weeks, I can't wait to see the catalogue of bad covid haircuts to emerge in the near future. Seen some right raspers already and I'm almost desperate enough to let the missus cut mine. She has been begging to cut it for weeks now and I kept insisting I would hold out til the 5th.
I wonder if any of our political leaders will suffer a similar fate. Varadkar's looks suspiciously short but it would be pretty funny to see them all with proper homemade looking haircuts, or taking the easy way out and getting a 90's style step done. I've seen many of those knocking around already and they are still no cooler than they were back in the day but it neatly circumvents the skill required to blend the top into the short sides.
Here is an example of how to provide decent clear data for citizens, in stark contrast to the way it is presented on the Irish version
https://www.covid.is/data
So much easier to get to grips with than the Irish figures, which are most likely to be found somewhere but certainly not in the one place like this. I'm not speaking of the actual figures here either, (as I feel they have certain geographical and population density advantages over many other countries) just how clear it is for all to see.
Edit: Just looking at this and it seems our own government have become a lot more transparent in their reporting lately. Fair enough that's an improvement for sure
https://www.gov.ie/en/news/7e0924-latest-updates-on-covid-19-coronavirus/#view-the-latest-information-given-by-nphet-to-government
Quote from: astfgyl on May 01, 2020, 09:52:56 PM
So now I'm wondering how many of those that have tested positive are actually sick or are asymptomatic. Again, I really want better data. Most likely so I can bend the figures to my own personal narrative.
You're so close to understanding this whole shambles, but you keep retreating.
I honestly haven't made up my mind what I really think of all of this. I have thoughts on it that swing wildly from one hour to the next and I'm trying to wait until I know enough for my own understanding of everything that is going on to become clear to me. Sometimes I read things and they swing my thinking one way or the other temporarily but I'm hoping to keep an open mind until I see enough data or evidence of things.
I do not doubt for one minute however that there will be a lot of advantage taken of the current situation by interests not in my own interest. That much at least has become clear to me from a very early stage.
But then again, one of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I know for a fact is that I don't really know anything at all, so we shall see.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 02, 2020, 10:22:24 PM
I honestly haven't made up my mind what I really think of all of this. I have thoughts on it that swing wildly from one hour to the next and I'm trying to wait until I know enough for my own understanding of everything that is going on to become clear to me. Sometimes I read things and they swing my thinking one way or the other temporarily but I'm hoping to keep an open mind until I see enough data or evidence of things.
I do not doubt for one minute however that there will be a lot of advantage taken of the current situation by interests not in my own interest. That much at least has become clear to me from a very early stage.
But then again, one of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I know for a fact is that I don't really know anything at all, so we shall see.
IT'S BETTER TO DIE ON YOUR FEET THAN LIVE ON YOUR KNEES! :abbath:
...... WHILE OBSERVING CORRECT SOCIAL DISTANCING! lol
Quote from: astfgyl on May 02, 2020, 10:22:24 PM
I honestly haven't made up my mind what I really think of all of this. I have thoughts on it that swing wildly from one hour to the next and I'm trying to wait until I know enough for my own understanding of everything that is going on to become clear to me. Sometimes I read things and they swing my thinking one way or the other temporarily but I'm hoping to keep an open mind until I see enough data or evidence of things.
I do not doubt for one minute however that there will be a lot of advantage taken of the current situation by interests not in my own interest. That much at least has become clear to me from a very early stage.
But then again, one of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I know for a fact is that I don't really know anything at all, so we shall see.
I know only what I've been allowed to know by another faction of the wash your hands brigade, so there's that- as far as it goes, it seems much much worse than a 'virus', but it seems to be something you can fix or defuse or manage by thinking it out and making personal changes. They, the 'management' have a different relationship to time than we do, so in our terribly short confusing lives, it costs them nothing to have us mentally out of phase for the 30 odd years until we're too old to cause trouble. Think divide and conquer, constant low level fear, mistrust of your neighbours. There is no vote, you have no say, they are they, you are you, sinn fein will not save you, Varadkar is not your friend, the future will be pretty much like the best/worst netflix scifi show.
That's assuming there are any people left. Any version of society left that us 1970s-1990s kids would recognise; they need your thoughts to create the future, there is no war in east-asia.
Anyway, this is the last I'll say on the matter. If only I'd known years ago just how bad things are, I mean I thought I knew, fucking hell. If they wanted to kill us all, they could; this is more about being broken and remade, a death of pre 21st century humanity, a new age a new form, but even that's not quite it.
Just think what they've achieved with suggestion, bad acting, word and number magic, that's the true horror, to cause all this using the power of shoddy stagecraft. I probably shouldn't have said all that.
Reply #851 on:Today at 03:36:03 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on May 02, 2020, 10:22:24 PM
I honestly haven't made up my mind what I really think of all of this. I have thoughts on it that swing wildly from one hour to the next and I'm trying to wait until I know enough for my own understanding of everything that is going on to become clear to me. Sometimes I read things and they swing my thinking one way or the other temporarily but I'm hoping to keep an open mind until I see enough data or evidence of things.
I do not doubt for one minute however that there will be a lot of advantage taken of the current situation by interests not in my own interest. That much at least has become clear to me from a very early stage.
But then again, one of my favourite sayings is that the only thing I know for a fact is that I don't really know anything at all, so we shall see.
also, there is no economy. there hasn't been an economy since about 1997. they don't need people to work anymore, other than busywork for social control, so look forward to swathes of redundancies across a range of what we called jobs. no virus, no economy, no family, no community, no culture, no future other than the one we choose for ourselves, the 'we' in this case not being you or me.
it'll be a weird UBI meets Orwell scenario- they probably won't let masses of people die on the streets, any more than they already do, but most small and medium sized businesses will be scythed.
I used to love doing acid, too.
You may go back taking it, as it looks like the only freedom of speech in the future will be inside your head....
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/may/02/youtube-deletes-coronavirus-conspiracy-theorist-david-ickes-channel
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/may/01/coronavirus-facebook-removes-page-conspiracy-theorist-david-icke
Now I don't agree with this fella at all, but the fact remains he should have a right to talk shite if he wants and I think this is an extremely worrying development. Welcome to China lads
Quote from: Juggz on May 03, 2020, 12:33:13 PM
I used to love doing acid, too.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: mugz on May 03, 2020, 07:31:57 AM
no virus, no economy, no family, no community, no culture, no future other than the one we choose for ourselves, the 'we' in this case not being you or me.
You should do t-shirts for the Manic Street Preachers.
Also Icke is a massive, massive shitehouse. The 'reality is only perception, and our perception is limited' framework is all prosaic, agreeable fluff but he's also a massive apologist for homeopathy and thinks doctors are kind of pretend.
It's not even his big stuff that irks me. Go on away and believe the queen is a lizard all you want. Saturn is a mind control matrix? Sure. It's the fact that he apes every other single moronic view out there as well, like a Smash Hits collection of conspiracy loons, and some people who really ought to know better lap it up and give him the time of day.
Chucking him from social media is lunacy, though. It plays
so well into what he's doing. Bloke and his followed must be chuffed.
Oh I fully disagree with David Icke I'm putting that on record here now, but this is an extremely depressing turn of events no matter how it's dressed up. We can't be trusted to make up our own minds that he is talking shit anymore, we just won't be allowed to hear it by our benevolent overseers.
Overseers? Fuck sake, lad. Youtube, facebook, instagram, twitter and whatever else are all owned by private companies with no obligation to give anyone a voice. If some mongo starts making the advertisers twitchy of course they will drop them. Money talks and bullshit walks, as Bobbi Flekman sagely counseled.
If you want a voice, if you want to give Icke and whoever else a voice, start your own social media platform. No-one is stopping you.
Imagine being in the position where China - CHINA! - has the moral high ground and is beating down on you about dishonesty!
https://twitter.com/XHNews/status/1255734356728922113?s=19
I have no interest in giving anybody a voice to be honest but I think that in principle he should be allowed to talk shite all he wants and we can all make up our own minds about it and most sane and rational people will be repelled from what he says. The problem here is that social media has become so ingrained into society that it is many folks only source of information about anything at all, so if only the accepted line of thinking is the one everyone is exposed to, there will be no real freedom of speech anymore. I wouldn't get bogged down in my choice of wording to describe something, try and see through that to the actual point I'm making. In the near future you won't hear any dissenting voice whatsoever and won't we all be safe then. And I actually think that what he says could be detrimental to reason if it was to believed on a mass scale, but the principle still stands. This is only the beginning of this sort of thing and I can't see how it won't get a whole lot worse.
How do you feel about it yourself, leaving aside disagreeing with my (perhaps poor, now I see it could be picked at) choice of wording for a moment? Do you honestly agree that there should be a curtailment on freedom of speech? I understand that they are advertising revenue driven private companies and yes they do have the right but we are in seriously dangerous territory here. It's like the holocaust denier thing, they are obviously (to me anyway) off their fucking game to be denying it, but I disagree with it being a crime to say so. The regular person could police that all by themselves by not believing it based on what is presented by both sides of the issue, just as I don't believe the world is being run by lizard people or that 5G is the cause of CV-19 just because David Icke says so.
When has there ever been free speech? Ever?
Seriously? Is that supposed to be some sort of riposte to my comment? I ask what you thought of the links I posted there and you ask when has there ever been free speech. And actually it isn't swashbuckling I was looking to get into at all, I honestly wanted to hear what somebody else other than myself would think of it. I don't know if there ever was freedom of speech in any time ever, but I still think this is an affront to the idea of it. I do think the idea of free speech is extremely important for any forward thinking society whether we have ever truly had it or not.
So what do you think of freedom of speech being taken away from the people you disagree with? An honest question for anyone
I avoid the cesspit of social media as much as possible (two music forums aside) and, therefore, don't see it as a medium for hearing alternate opinions. In fact, the main reason I killed my brief stay on Facebook years ago is because it was so easy to turn it into an agreement bubble. It's a fucking pox with nothing resembling free expression and/or a means of hearing alternate opinions by design. All these social media portals are designed to show you things you're interested in. They'll play videos automatically, they'll animate the gifs and the army of psychologists they employ against you will work exclusively to keep you stimulated and not getting too upset that you move to another site. The longer you stay on, the more advertising you're exposed to. That is the only reason these things exist. They don't want you seeing things which you disagree with because you're more likely to go somewhere else, which is bad for business. They are nothing to do with free speech. I cannot express that strongly enough, no matter how obvious it is. That being said, who is stopping you saying whatever you want to say? You're taking umbrage at a privately owned platform deciding they don't want content from certain users. That's many things, but it's not an attack on free speech. You can say what you want as long as the owner of the medium you're expressing it on doesn't get too pissed off with you for saying it. That's easy to grasp.
Again, I stand by my previous post. When has there ever been truly free speech? Has there ever been truly free speech? I would be in the "no" camp, there. You are always tailoring your words for the audience you're talking to, whether you are conscious of it or not. Facebook and youtube are not free speech platforms. Do not ever mistake them for that.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 03, 2020, 09:30:56 PM
So what do you think of freedom of speech being taken away from the people you disagree with? An honest question for anyone
The question is really
"So what do you think of the cost-free platform for speech being taken away from the people you disagree with?"
Nobody is stopping Icke from saying what he wants, but the owners of a private website are completely within their rights to fuck him off out of it. Clearly, he is not being restricted from implementing his own platform for conveying his thoughts, right? If Joe Public is too fucking lazy to wipe the drool off their chin long enough to follow him to wherever he goes next, that is hardly an attack on freedom, surely?
Of course, maybe this topic is better off being diverted into a thread of its own? There's probably enough to justify it, it's an interesting debate.
I agree with everything you say there about the social media platforms themselves and I honestly come here so we can have a bit of to and fro like this without the concept of likes or shares or targeted adverts in one place at least. I would like to point out to further the point that I agree with you that I haven't been one for posting or liking or sharing anything whatsoever on FB for years, I don't post on twitter or instagram or youtube as I feel just like you have described about them.
And again just because there has never been truly free speech it doesn't mean it shouldn't be the ideal. Now you mention it, I am in the no camp as to whether free speech has ever been a thing vs a concept but again I don't think that means we shouldn't strive for it. Like it seems to me that you might be in disagreement with me here about this but I appreciate the fact you can say it and who knows you might even make me feel different than I do about that by what you say, so it is definitely worth reading, but imagine a world where the dissenting voice can never be heard. This will extend beyond social media very soon if it hasn't already. Wouldn't you like to hear all sides of things even if they are full of shit, but shouldn't you be trusted as a rational creature to make up your own mind? I would love world peace, does the fact that there has never truly been world peace make it any less desirable or should we just accept that conflict is permanent and move on?
Again I ask would you agree with censorship of those whom you don't agree with? What do you actually think about David Icke's pages being removed from general public consumption or if not removed, made a lot more difficult to track down?
Social Media will be first, the entire internet next, the world of media in general will soon follow. Icke is an easy target as everyone knows he is a fool, but where to after that? We all rely on information to be served to us, if there is a war in say Mexico tomorrow would you like to hear about all aspects of it or just the one side will do fine for you and "fuck it I will understand it as I am told to understand it" because that is how this is going to go. So what if what Icke says is wrong, this will be the tip of the iceberg regarding the sterilisation of what we hear. I knew from the beginning that this virus would be taken advantage of in so many ways that will be far from our interest, and all in the name of our safety.
Edit: I saw the new posts warning before posting but fuck if I was typing all that again. It could be it's own thread to be fair
My point is that Icke has not been censored. He has simply been removed from a privately owned website. His own website is still up and running, no? His thoughts are still available to anyone who cares to look for them, right? So where is the censorship? It has never, in the history of humanity, taken less effort to get your opinion - no matter how detached from reality - exposed to the greatest amount of people, ever.
The real problem is most of the western world has devolved into a rut of getting most of their information spoon-fed from just three privately owned companies with their own agendas and most people seem to be either too lazy, too disinterested or too thick to bother their hole tondo anything about it. That, to me, is what is truly alarming about this situation.
I mean, even the Nazis went to the trouble and expense to set up Der Angriff and got off their arses to get their bullshit out to the people. We’re lamenting the fact that some cunts have to exercise their thumb here. Seriously.
Quote from: Juggz on May 03, 2020, 11:49:12 PM
My point is that Icke has not been censored. He has simply been removed from a privately owned website. His own website is still up and running, no? His thoughts are still available to anyone who cares to look for them, right? So where is the censorship? It has never, in the history of humanity, taken less effort to get your opinion - no matter how detached from reality - exposed to the greatest amount of people, ever.
The real problem is most of the western world has devolved into a rut of getting most of their information spoon-fed from just three privately owned companies with their own agendas and most people seem to be either too lazy, too disinterested or too thick to bother their hole tondo anything about it. That, to me, is what is truly alarming about this situation.
I mean, even the Nazis went to the trouble and expense to set up Der Angriff and got off their arses to get their bullshit out to the people. We're lamenting the fact that some cunts have to exercise their thumb here. Seriously.
Icke is one of their spokespeople anyway, a construct like alex jones, but nearly everyone is a construct. It's all cages within cages, but if you can help a few people really understand how bad things are, you've at least made a tiny step.
They do ridiculous rituals and plays to make us all scared, to make us focus on things that serve to distract us and drain our energy. Im not sure there's any hope, any escape, or just more simulated realities, or even if we agree to play these mortal, not really mortal, games because floating around disembodied in an infinite void is so unbearable.
There is no virus, but what there is, is much worse and serves to point out just how complicated reality is.
https://youtu.be/TxBSPqJd2_Y] (http://[/url)https://youtu.be/TxBSPqJd2_Y[/url]
Quote from: Juggz on May 03, 2020, 11:49:12 PM
My point is that Icke has not been censored. He has simply been removed from a privately owned website. His own website is still up and running, no? His thoughts are still available to anyone who cares to look for them, right? So where is the censorship? It has never, in the history of humanity, taken less effort to get your opinion - no matter how detached from reality - exposed to the greatest amount of people, ever.
The real problem is most of the western world has devolved into a rut of getting most of their information spoon-fed from just three privately owned companies with their own agendas and most people seem to be either too lazy, too disinterested or too thick to bother their hole tondo anything about it. That, to me, is what is truly alarming about this situation.
I mean, even the Nazis went to the trouble and expense to set up Der Angriff and got off their arses to get their bullshit out to the people. We're lamenting the fact that some cunts have to exercise their thumb here. Seriously.
That is a fair point actually. I was thinking about it a bit this morning as well and upon reflection I think a certain amount of censorship is good. Even on the likes of the social media platforms. For example I don't use those sites a whole lot but if I do, I'd rather I wasn't exposed to religious extremist propaganda or racist hate speech. So I am sort of contradicting myself there.
Maybe what is getting to me about it is the whole idea that anything going against the accepted info on Covid 19 in particular will fall under the umbrella of spreading misinformation on it, in spite of the fact that so little is known about it so far. The info is changing all the time as would be expected with an emerging disease and I hate to see it used as an excuse for general censorship. I might be wrong but I would be amazed if this initiative didn't end up spreading much farther.
And I still reckon people should be allowed to talk what might be seen as shit because not everybody who goes against the accepted information is David Icke. The fact all his usual stuff about New World Order never got him a ban but this one did seems like a new era of censorship. I hope I turn out to be wrong or getting over excited about this tbh.
He never posed a serious public health risk before.
I suppose, but I would still have thought we should be rational enough creatures to make up our own minds up that it is shite he is talking. Like I can't emphasise enough here that I do think he is full of bull and I am in no way a supporter of anything he does say. I have read a bit of it an odd time for a giggle is as far as I've gone with it.
The fact we have to censor people like Icke in situations such as these is absolutely a sign of failure, on a massive and global scale, to properly educate people. That is true, if that's what you're getting at.
We're not rational enough because we're badly educated, with respect to rational thought. Rational thought, when you take that to include things like diagnostic thinking, falsification approaches to hypotheses... basically everything that the success of conspiracy theories relies on an absence of, here's the clincher; none of that comes spontaneously. If you're not explicitly trained in it, your brain ain't going to do it spontaneously, no more than reading or writing which also have to be explicitly taught. So no, in short and on the whole, we're not rational enough creatures to make up our own minds, so our only option is to take the low road out; censorship.
I can't disagree with it as you've put it there however difficult I find it to accept.
I guess it is a bit like how I felt about the Swedish approach to locking the country down vs our own. I was thinking how unfair that we all have to be forced to do the right thing here where in other countries they can be advised instead of forced and get on with it.
Then I thought about what the Irish attitude to such advice would be, that like if we were told here no gatherings over 10, there would immediately be reports of lads gathering in groups over 50. And if social distancing wasn't to be enforced by Gardai, half the population wouldn't bother with it. So the feeling that all must be forced into something to protect us from the idiot contingent is a tough one to accept, but stands to reason. Then it brings me on to thinking does that general attitude stem from a general public mistrust of successive governments in this country over the years, so a large portion of the population immediately think "fuck em" no matter what they are saying, like a boy who cried wolf situation, vs a place like Sweden where confidence in their government seems to be higher than what we generally enjoy.
I guess this is much the same regarding censorship of crazy ideas. Will it add fuel to the fire of their supporters though and make somewhat of a martyr of them I wonder.
Also, I say "censor" but I agree with everything Juggz has said on that topic. In pragmatic terms, however, the simple fact that it's perceived as censorship already means it will be fuel to the hardcore, as you say. Conspiracy theories are built on the idea that some truth is being withheld, so any form of silencing is water thrown on a grease fire.
Well I don't doubt that truth is being withheld all the time in all sorts of situations but the self-styled conspiracy theorists don't seem to me to be the sort that would be privy to anything beyond pure fantasy anyway. Actually styling themselves as a conspiracy theorist at all fairly nails their flag to the mast as I see it and they are only looking for things where there is likely nothing to see. I like to think I am an advocate of freedom of speech though and my attitude is still to let them talk all the shite they want and hope I would have the brains not to get caught up in it. Someday, one of them somewhere might put 2 and 2 together and not come up with 6.
Back to something a bit more on topic, I see that the general approach to the pandemic is to slow it down until either a cure or a vaccine is found. Like if a vaccine or cure turns out to be as elusive as for something like the common cold where would we all go from there? Vaccination seems unlikely to properly work due to the mutation factor but of course that isn't fully clear as of now, and all the promising treatments put forward so far haven't fallen into the category of an actual cure. Is it a future of rolling shutdowns each time a new wave of this picks up for ever or how do we all get around this if no treatment ever works? Indefinite social distancing? Or is it possible to actually get rid of this through testing and quarantine once the testing capacity makes that feasible? If all countries stopped all incoming passenger flights from all countries that still had even a single case until they had something like 2 months with none would that be enough? Quarantining all freight or imports might work in some cases but not with perishables so there is a doorway for it to come back even if we had no cases of our own. It's a tough one to figure in the no treatment scenario.
Read to end. Is Rome Italy's 'Tipperary' so? 'Evidence' all the measures were a waste of time? Or are both more likely the fortunate outcome of strict measures?
QuoteItaly's death toll far higher than reported - stats office
Italy's coronavirus death toll is much higher than reported, statistics bureau ISTAT said on Monday, in an analysis pointing to thousands of fatalities that have never been officially attributed to Covid-19.
In its first report of the epidemic's impact on Italy's mortality rate, covering 86% of the population, ISTAT said that from 21 February, when the first Covid-19 deaths occurred, until 31 March, nationwide deaths were up 39% compared with the average of the previous five years.
Of the 25,354 "excess deaths", Covid-19 was registered by the Civil Protection Agency as the official cause for 13,710, leaving around 11,600 deaths unaccounted for.
These occurred overwhelmingly in the northern part of Italy most heavily hit by the virus.
The statistics bureau said it was reasonable to assume these people either died of Covid-19 without being tested or that the extra stress on the health system due to the epidemic meant they died of other causes they were not treated for.
Starting today, more than four million Italians will get back to work as manufacturers, construction companies and some wholesalers reopen after two months of lockdown.
Starting today, more than four million Italians will get back to work as manufacturers, construction companies and some wholesalers reopen after two months of lockdown. Photograph: Emanuele Cremaschi/Getty Images
Officially, up to 3 May, the Civil Protection Agency recorded 28,884 coronavirus deaths, the second highest toll in the world after the United States. The tally only includes people who tested positive.
The agency compiles data from the regions on deaths of people who tested positive for the virus and issues them in a bulletin at 6pm every day.
ISTAT's report, drawn up with Italy's National Health Institute, confirmed the massive concentration of the epidemic in the country's northern regions, where the vast majority of unreported deaths have also taken place.
In the northern region of Lombardy, which includes the financial capital Milan and has been most ravaged by the disease, deaths were up 186% in March from 2015-2019.
Looking at individual cities, the worst-hit was Bergamo, near Milan, where deaths were up 568% in March compared with the 2015-2019 average.
The nearby cities of Cremona and Lodi saw increases of 391% and 370% respectively. In Milan they rose 93%.
In Rome, Italy's most populous city, which has been relatively lightly hit by Covid-19, overall fatalities were down 9% from the previous five years. The Sicilian capital Palermo also posted a 9% decline.
You're really dining out on the Tipperary thing. They (Tipperary Star) got their figures from publicly available data, I didn't pull it out of my arse. The fact remains that the Tipp residents were smarter this year than they were for the 4 years previous in the not dying stakes.
Joking aside, I imagine that the lower rates in certain parts of Italy were due to the extra warning time they had and that northern Italy was well riddled by the time anybody chose to start getting worried about it. I suppose also though that things like traffic accidents and drunken mishaps and violent crime and the like which is probably rife in large cities worldwide was massively reduced by the lock down to the extent that the reduction overtook the increase from covid 19.
Also way back in this thread I linked to a study on Italy's death rate and their extremely high excess mortality rate since around 2012 which has been way higher than the average with no explanation, and that study said that their 2018 excess mortality rate was their highest since WW2. I guess that has been forgotten about in the run of things but maybe the non Covid 19 deaths they speak of here might be in some way attributed to whatever was causing that spike in the years covered by that study and maybe there is some other as yet undiscovered cause of death in Italy that still needs to be looked at outside of Covid 19. I must find that link again, it's definitely worth a read. The report you have quoted there does compare to the last 5 years though so these excess deaths must be in excess of that increase I mention there as well or maybe some correlation there which hasn't been spotted yet. It's certainly food for thought at the least.
The fact that Tipp's mortality rate is down to a 4 year low so far this year in spite of the current situation might not say much good about our general drunken, violent, car crashing and death by misadventure ways now I look at it. I guess it is all in the presentation of the figures
These figures are excesses based on the averages from the previous five years, meaning it's excess above the normalized excess of 2018 also. And they're not attributing all of it to COVID19, they're saying many may be from inability to access medical care for unrelated issues.
I'm jabbing a bit about Tipperary, but only to try and highlight the need to try to put any narrative in parentheses before looking at the figures.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 04, 2020, 11:47:28 PM
These figures are excesses based on the averages from the previous five years, meaning it's excess above the normalized excess of 2018 also.
Yeah I actually edited my own post to make reference to that as well, I was thinking along the lines of some possible correlation between the non covid deaths and whatever was the cause of that other excess mortality. Maybe the Covid flooded the hospitals and those who might have received treatment for whatever the other cause is didn't receive it or something along those lines. Maybe but who knows as I reckon it will be a good while before anything like that has figures available and up for consideration. There is only the one disease in town at the moment and knowledge on it is still fairly light in spite of how hard it is getting studied worldwide so the picture is only emerging as we speak. It's mad to think what all of this will look like in say 2 years time from a medical perspective. It must have put a stop to an awful lot of unrelated research being completed since the start of this, with funding and resources from all sorts of places being diverted
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus?country=IRL#deaths-from-covid-19-background
Interesting looking resource here, might make interesting reading. Seems to be coming from a slightly different angle than worldometers
Somewhat encouraging news today with the announcement that over 17,000 of the 22,000 confirmed cases here are considered recovered.
Somewhat discouraging news however with the several gentle reminders about the bill there will be to pay, although I doubt any of us thought there wouldn't be one. Surely austerity is not the answer, as that wasn't great for any of us last time and led to a lot of funding cut in healthcare areas although mismanagement by the HSE accounts for a lot of the issues there as well as lack of funding. This will be a big test for the European Union depending on how individual countries are treated in the aftermath of the initial shock of this.
Not a bad result either for the healthcare workers regarding childcare, although I feel that the fact they have to pay at all is a bit rough as they have been repeatedly feted as heroes.
Also surprised that (now it is being talked about a bit more regarding its' sustainability) the covid unemployment payment wasn't in some way related to the wage the person had actually lost out on. I personally know of several people who were getting much less than that amount in their part time jobs and have gotten a pay rise from it. A simple requirement for a wage slip would have helped with that, and reduced the cost of the scheme, thus enabling it to be sustained for longer for those who cannot return to work until the later phases.
I think the thrust of getting the payment rolling out as quickly as they did was operating on a 'pay first, ask questions later' basis, I'd be very surprised if they didn't follow up on how much they've paid to who when the dust settles a bit.
I'm on about the same as I was when I was working, so I'm not worried on that score, but I reckon a lot of people will be under some very unwelcome scrutiny in the near future. We'll see the likes of Jobpath, or whatever new name they roll out the same craic under, expanded by a huge margin.
Surely there will be questions asked very soon around the 350 for all. Not saying some didn't need it but like everything else it was exploited a lot. Those Jobbridge schemes as well were basically slavery and were massively exploited by employers. Very bad form even if the idea or intention was good they must have surely been proven not to work by now.
Here, on a different note I came across a funny one there: https://www.pulse.ng/news/metro/tanzania-president-angry-as-pawpaw-and-goat-test-positive-for-coronavirus/zzyhqvs
Apparently the lab are in a bit of trouble
Quote from: astfgyl on May 06, 2020, 09:22:10 PM
Surely there will be questions asked very soon around the 350 for all. Not saying some didn't need it but like everything else it was exploited a lot. Those Jobbridge schemes as well were basically slavery and were massively exploited by employers. Very bad form even if the idea or intention was good they must have surely been proven not to work by now.
Here, on a different note I came across a funny one there: https://www.pulse.ng/news/metro/tanzania-president-angry-as-pawpaw-and-goat-test-positive-for-coronavirus/zzyhqvs
Apparently the lab are in a bit of trouble
It would be a goat
The last coupla days I'm actually feeling the effects. There's no better fella to sit on his arse and do fuck all but I've been getting antsy and fidgety this week. Been toying with the idea of putting down a patio out the back just to actually do some physical labour. Suppose I'll have to wait til the 18th before hardware shops are even able to deliver materials. Been doing well not just to get pissed at home every night.
Hardware shop open 200 yards from my gaff. It's the local co-op and I think selling farm supplies is the loophole so look for those places. Was talking to the manager of Euro Giant as well and he said selling petfood was their loophole to stay open selling toys and knick knacks. Loads of places open that technically shouldn't be. Local motor factors doing call and collect even though they were closed in the beginning. In a lot of ways other than travelling and meeting people most things can be done. Well there are also things like going to the pub, gigs, matches, playing in bands, sports, gym, parks that can't be done and probably loads more but I'm being reminded of the "What have the Romans ever done for us" gag from The Life of Brian now listing them out
"With almost half of the world's population, now living under lockdown, the World Economic Forum has described this period as the largest psychological experiment ever conducted and we are already witnessing a huge surge in mental health conditions (stress, anxiety, addiction, domestic violence and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). Sustainability (business and climate) will redefine itself in the Covid-19 era as businesses increase CSR budgets, adopt employee-lite operating models and travel and supply chains looking to fundamentally change for years."
Just a little quote from Forbes magazine
A comma too many in the first sentence but no Oxford comma further on; seems to me Forbes needs to get its priorities in order!
The bird keeps ordering stuff from amazon and elsewhere out of boredom, rugs, cosmetics, stuff for the cat. A box came yesterday from this outrageously expensive boutique called 'Sezane' we were in in Paris in January. I deliberately avoided looking at the bill as she bought a jumper for 400 beans there last time.
Duolingo and the amazon kindle are great for making me feel that my brain isn't turning to mush. Anything to keep me away from the telly.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 07, 2020, 10:38:33 AM
The bird keeps ordering stuff from amazon and elsewhere out of boredom, rugs, cosmetics, stuff for the cat. A box came yesterday from this outrageously expensive boutique called 'Sezane' we were in in Paris in January. I deliberately avoided looking at the bill as she bought a jumper for 400 beans there last time.
Duolingo and the amazon kindle are great for making me feel that my brain isn't turning to mush. Anything to keep me away from the telly.
Knock that on the head lad. If she doesn't comply, give her a kick in the fanny. She won't show that to the cops.
🤣🤣🤣
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown
This article about TB, but likely applies to a lot of other diseases as well. Seems everyone has their eye on the ball instead of the defender about to smash their legs from behind.
The indirect rate of death and disease from the fallout of this could turn out to be much higher than the actual rate if the focus doesn't come off it a bit soon and get back to living with it. Yes there will have to be adjustments but the show must go on. Putting more of the world into poverty and misery and austerity could also contribute to an increase in deaths greater than the toll of Covid-19 in many ways. Of course that could all be seen as indirect Covid deaths if one wanted to look at it that way.
The world really needs to broaden its' horizons a bit to see it isn't the only game in town because it is the newest. Or to use the earlier analogy, one needs to know where the ball as well as where the defender is to have the best chance of scoring or the defender needs to watch the ball as well as the incoming striker to stand the best chance of not conceding. depending how one wants to see it.
I think it is time to start learning how to live with this now and put more effort into care for the high risk groups rather than full country lock downs, as we are all way too reliant on the assumption there will be a cure or vaccine for this.
I can't wait for the book:
Astfgyl's Corona Nightmares~ Vols 1-666 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
God knows there are enough of them lol. I think the kids being out of school is starting to get to me!
Not going to post a link to the "documentary", but here's a good run through of all the garbage in "The Plandemic" should you know some people who need a bit of help with their "anyone who says anything I believe is trustworthy" bias.
https://bigthink.com/coronavirus/the-plandemic
The spin certainly goes in every direction, but it doesn't take a genius to write this stuff off. His article sounds balanced and well reasoned and I would enjoy reading something as lacking in sensationalism from somebody on the anti vaccination side but I haven't come across one yet.
The "I know everything for a fact" bias, as presented by the likes of this "documentary" which only looks at and twists one very biased angle of something only adds fuel to the idea that anyone who has doubts around the accepted information and norms of any situation must be an idiot of some sort and must be in league with all the shite talkers of the world when questioning everything is surely part of the human condition.
I personally wouldn't watch this shite, but I equally won't willingly be stabbed with any rushed out vaccine (which doesn't exist yet) just because of fear driven down my throat by media hype and herd mentality of those who follow said hype. Conversely, if a long term study of the proven efficacy of a given vaccine for whatever condition was shown to be of benefit I would of course get it provided the risks didn't outweigh the benefits.
Shit like this brings me back to the Cambridge Analytica comment I made about it all from the very beginning. It all ties in with agendas being pushed and bias confirmed in all directions. The masses are being pulled in one direction and the other and the level of manipulation is so extreme that even the credible stuff is hard to believe anymore. It was used in the Brexit referendum and the U.S. presidential elections with arguable success and now it is being rolled out on a global scale, and we all know about it but as long as we have any sort of Bias towards anything right or wrong we are open to being gently and consistently manipulated in all directions. The post I made in the peeves thread is a particularly depressing example of this and I am certain it goes so much farther than all that but saying it probably gets me broadly lumped in with the likes of those who watch that documentary and don't question it at all. In fact I should watch it to see what the argument is. I can see what the pro vaccination crowd would have to gain in general from their stance (eg better public health, eradication of disease, massive profits for private companies), but what does the anti vaccination crowd have to gain from convincing people it's bad? For right or wrong I would weigh things up that way in my mind.
I know the first thing the quoted article mentions is the Nazi comparisons but these days Goebbels himself wouldn't know if he was coming or going. The internet and social media is a Minister for Propaganda's wet dream.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 07, 2020, 04:11:35 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown
This article about TB, but likely applies to a lot of other diseases as well. Seems everyone has their eye on the ball instead of the defender about to smash their legs from behind.
The indirect rate of death and disease from the fallout of this could turn out to be much higher than the actual rate if the focus doesn't come off it a bit soon and get back to living with it. Yes there will have to be adjustments but the show must go on. Putting more of the world into poverty and misery and austerity could also contribute to an increase in deaths greater than the toll of Covid-19 in many ways. Of course that could all be seen as indirect Covid deaths if one wanted to look at it that way.
The world really needs to broaden its' horizons a bit to see it isn't the only game in town because it is the newest. Or to use the earlier analogy, one needs to know where the ball as well as where the defender is to have the best chance of scoring or the defender needs to watch the ball as well as the incoming striker to stand the best chance of not conceding. depending how one wants to see it.
I think it is time to start learning how to live with this now and put more effort into care for the high risk groups rather than full country lock downs, as we are all way too reliant on the assumption there will be a cure or vaccine for this.
the TB and measles outbreaks of the 40s and 50s are interesting to learn about.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 07, 2020, 04:11:35 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown
This article about TB, but likely applies to a lot of other diseases as well. Seems everyone has their eye on the ball instead of the defender about to smash their legs from behind.
The indirect rate of death and disease from the fallout of this could turn out to be much higher than the actual rate if the focus doesn't come off it a bit soon and get back to living with it. Yes there will have to be adjustments but the show must go on. Putting more of the world into poverty and misery and austerity could also contribute to an increase in deaths greater than the toll of Covid-19 in many ways. Of course that could all be seen as indirect Covid deaths if one wanted to look at it that way.
The world really needs to broaden its' horizons a bit to see it isn't the only game in town because it is the newest. Or to use the earlier analogy, one needs to know where the ball as well as where the defender is to have the best chance of scoring or the defender needs to watch the ball as well as the incoming striker to stand the best chance of not conceding. depending how one wants to see it.
I think it is time to start learning how to live with this now and put more effort into care for the high risk groups rather than full country lock downs, as we are all way too reliant on the assumption there will be a cure or vaccine for this.
every death BY a non existent disease is an indirect death. Sorry for harping on, I'm well aware many many people here and there have reasons for pushing this script, but I can't go along to get along in this case.
Do you honestly think it is a non-existent disease? I'd be very skeptical of that claim in the same way I'm very skeptical of how the whole situation is being presented to us. It seems to me that there is certainly a disease but the figures and information on it are all horribly distorted and to the gain of some entities and to the detriment of others. I make the argument back at myself then that of course figures are going to be distorted and there is no way of knowing in which direction that goes and it is to be expected with something so new that it will take a while for the data to be analysed. I have seen many sides of the arguments about this thing and I really haven't seen enough to make up my mind entirely yet but my gut tells me there is something really weird in the presentation of it all so far. Something which hasn't properly become apparent yet but we have all had a gut feeling about things before and it is usually right. I don't mean a few thoughts around something, I mean the real but hard to describe feeling we have all experienced.
I would be interested in hearing why you think it doesn't exist at all. And I think we can all get along just fine while disagreeing about things. I was under the impression that was how places like this worked, that nobody should have to go along to get along although I try to keep my own points open to discussion rather than "telling" things to people or getting into heated arguments because that just kills discussion and who knows there might be something to be learned from it all
Quote from: astfgyl on May 08, 2020, 04:11:28 PM
Do you honestly think it is a non-existent disease? I'd be very skeptical of that claim in the same way I'm very skeptical of how the whole situation is being presented to us. It seems to me that there is certainly a disease but the figures and information on it are all horribly distorted and to the gain of some entities and to the detriment of others. I make the argument back at myself then that of course figures are going to be distorted and there is no way of knowing in which direction that goes and it is to be expected with something so new that it will take a while for the data to be analysed. I have seen many sides of the arguments about this thing and I really haven't seen enough to make up my mind entirely yet but my gut tells me there is something really weird in the presentation of it all so far. Something which hasn't properly become apparent yet but we have all had a gut feeling about things before and it is usually right. I don't mean a few thoughts around something, I mean the real but hard to describe feeling we have all experienced.
I would be interested in hearing why you think it doesn't exist at all. And I think we can all get along just fine while disagreeing about things. I was under the impression that was how places like this worked, that nobody should have to go along to get along although I try to keep my own points open to discussion rather than "telling" things to people or getting into heated arguments because that just kills discussion and who knows there might be something to be learned from it all
well, go along to get along in an overall reality sense. sometimes they stuff they put our way is way too much, not sometimes pretty often! I guess I'm trying to plant a flag. In some ways it's utterly futile but at least maybe one person might be less frightened by knowing there is no virus.
the real question is what ever happened to AIDS, cancer, 'terrorists' etc They must have got the memo to keep quiet for now.
I've written a lot of big paragraphs, naively, about ch-change, reality adjustment etc In many ways what's happening is FAR more terrifying than a biological outbreak. So yes, there is no virus, though there's no doubt they do a lot of stuff to make people low key tired/frightened/unwell, from food production, to bathroom products, household products, and yes vaccines to things which don't exist/do exist but they made/are actually beneficial for you anyway.
astfgyl is an unfortunate handle in this context. it doesn't really matter anyway, we're all being penned,played, controlled whether we agree or disagree on how this will play out.
I actually agree with a few points you are making, but have you anything to back it up beyond a gut feeling like I was talking about? I have no concrete proof of fuck all only a general feeling and so far there has always been a seemingly reasonable argument against it. Also, another Pratchett reader? Eric is class and for me has at least 3 levels of meaning. I chose the name carefully in the beginning but now I can't remember which meaning I chose it for.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 08, 2020, 08:45:40 PM
I actually agree with a few points you are making, but have you anything to back it up beyond a gut feeling like I was talking about? I have no concrete proof of fuck all only a general feeling and so far there has always been a seemingly reasonable argument against it. Also, another Pratchett reader? Eric is class and for me has at least 3 levels of meaning. I chose the name carefully in the beginning but now I can't remember which meaning I chose it for.
We're all reaching that age where we can't remember what things are or why but we remember there being good reasons at the time :laugh: I'm no different in that sense. And no I'm not a Pratchett fan so much as a respecter of the huge number of truths dropped in his stuff, supposedly for kids, but really not. At the time Douglas Adams was more my bag, but they both did their job, whatever secret society they belonged to.
I mean it's hard to back up anything I'm saying because it's all lies, everything around us is deeply evil and deceptive. Some people 'know' the truth but if you do or not and I'm not saying I know anything other than what they've allowed me to know, we're still inside the same narrative-machine, the same machine that always gives you just enough to stay curious/engaged.
So without going into a massive spiel about lots of esoteric stuff I don't really enjoy dealing with, it's hard to give specific pointers, but you'll have noticed the layering in covid-19 itself, corvid, covered, shroud, See Ovid, huginn, muninn etc
According this they reckon there is some short term positive effects, as we're being made stay at home and not making a shite of thing, but long term no:
https://youtu.be/2xRmP7cwycg
Not often I think the clowns in the north do anything right, but glad they didn't follow Boris. The steps seem pretty good, hopefully starting at end of may. See family and friends then hopefully
Ah here mugz, are you saying nearly 2,000 deaths in Ireland are fake news? Are you saying the survivors throughout the island are spoofing it when recounting how they never experienced anyway remotely close to this "fake" virus?
I guess their bedside testimonies were put on in the same studios as the moon landing and alien autopsies. The users here who have had family members affected must be delusional as well I suppose. Sheesh
I'm a crisis actor and I didn't even know it
I think there is something iffy about the way the economic effect of this lock down has been kind of sidelined. I think the virus is real, I'm not into conspiracy theories, but I don't know if the response has been the right one. Does locking everything down and potentially dragging this on for a year or two, after which the virus will probably still exist but we may or may not have a vaccine- and who will get it?- leave us in a better position than having just let it rip through the world for a season? That's an extreme question maybe, and I don't even really have a strong stance, but I am 100% against destroying the economy when we are fairly sure that doing that will result in so much more misery.
I think everybody knows that has to happen, waiting for a vaccine which may never come is not an option, but nobody wants to be the owner of that decision. I don't think the half-assed lockdown is sustainable for much longer. They can't keep writing cheques. At some point, that money needs to be paid back and people need to be working in order to do that.
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/
An interesting comparison drawn here. He makes no mention of the extra capacity in the private hospitals though. It seems to me that if those figures are included, we would have close to the capacity needed for a Swedish style solution.
The basic economic figures at the end make very interesting reading.
The article reads a bit as a pat on the back for Tony Holohan, which isn't really an issue as he can only work with what he has in front of him, but my own take is that it is a damning report on what condition our health service was in prior to this situation due to mismanagement by successive health ministers going back over a number of terms. Also the part where the Swedish representative reckons their current approach will give them an advantage for the seemingly inevitable second wave in autumn is something worth thinking about, although only time will prove the veracity of that claim.
Any way one wants to look at it, it's not a bad read all the same and gives more food for thought around what the 2 posts above are saying
Quote from: Snare on May 12, 2020, 06:10:02 PM
Ah here mugz, are you saying nearly 2,000 deaths in Ireland are fake news? Are you saying the survivors throughout the island are spoofing it when recounting how they never experienced anyway remotely close to this "fake" virus?
I guess their bedside testimonies were put on in the same studios as the moon landing and alien autopsies. The users here who have had family members affected must be delusional as well I suppose. Sheesh
well I'm not
absolutely saying that, and I'm aware I'm being played as much as those people being made to self-imprison. We're all being spun like tops, but for what it's worth things are much worse than a 'virus'. It
is a virus, but not something dettol will cure.
trust noone except yourself and the first 3 Entombed albums.
I was in work today and I noticed that the overall level of people out and about has taken a massive jump and at times it was no different to how it was in say January when things weren't crazy but still tipping along. As I was driving home I noticed how much traffic has come back on the roads and other than the pub doors being closed it looked like business as usual.
I then realised that there are things I will miss as we slowly emerge from lockdown, and I'm sort of cursing myself for not enjoying it more in a way.
Edit: I will still have plenty of time to make the most of it, I'm not suggesting it is anywhere near over.
Today in Canada news outlets are reporting that saying the virus came from China is now both xenophobic and a conspiracy theory :laugh:
Wow, who knew that stating the accepted facts of a situation would be a conspiracy theory. Is this to do with the Epoch Times thing?
Quote from: mickO))) on May 14, 2020, 07:27:53 PM
Today in Canada news outlets are reporting that saying the virus came from China is now both xenophobic and a conspiracy theory :laugh:
On second thoughts let's not go to Canada, it is a rather silly place
It came from the transphobes, you fucking shameless Nazi!
NY's governor is now referring to it as the European virus.
Quote from: Aborted on May 14, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on May 14, 2020, 07:27:53 PM
Today in Canada news outlets are reporting that saying the virus came from China is now both xenophobic and a conspiracy theory :laugh:
On second thoughts let's not go to Canada, it is a rather silly place
With their flappy heads and beady little eyes
The best thing to do here would be to test which mutation exactly we are talking about to discover its' provenance. Then assign each one a name according to what it is, insisting that it all gets put into an ever-expanding acronym which is then used every time somebody wants to say where it came from. The current estimate is 8 strains according to the one unsubstantiated report I read just the headline of there, so we could call them by the U.S.' 8 least popular boy names 2018 (Weston. Declan. Xander. Jason. Theodore. Micah. Jonathan. Rowan.)
Now they will have to call it "The WDXJTMJR Virus" or any combination of that depending on which ones are in their own country at the time of their saying it and that will soon stop anybody referring to which country they want to blame for it. If any of them start getting the hang of the acronym we can all cry foul because it isn't fair to include only male names on the list and also it is not right to use only U.S. names because we are all in it together and it is painting the U.S. in a bad light and also anyone who is named the same as any one of the strains might actually be a frontline hero working in the local newsagent and why only the worst of 2018 what about all the other years when heroes were born and not all superheroes wear capes and there is no fate but that which we make for ourselves as well so we will need those names changed before we accept the usage of the acronym at all and it's very ageist anyway to be using only baby names and not representative of all age groups... and so on and so forth until nobody knows whether they are coming or going anymore.
All we need is one celebrity and twitter to stand them up on. I reckon if the few on this forum gave a fiver each we could have Brush Shiels or someone equally fantastic to get ball rolling
I always remember constantly hearing when I was younger about how stupid Americans were but I am convinced now the people that use to say that had Americans mixed up with Canadians.
What did they do?
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on May 15, 2020, 09:30:15 AM
What did they do?
Stopped calling it by its proper name. THE CHINA VIRUS....
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on May 15, 2020, 09:30:15 AM
What did they do?
It's almost everything they do political correctness is pushed to it's absolute limit. The so called head doctor who speaks to the public and gives advice is Chinese and clearly has an allegiance to China a handful of people have questioned her over the course of the crises and instead of getting answers Justin Trudeau just called them racist for even questioning the good doctor.
As a nation a very gullible group of people in all aspects. If the Canadian government announced today that drinking piss makes your cock bigger people would immediately start swallowing piss by the gallon without asking any questions.
I got a kick out of that 'squatting slav' lad wandering around SJW events winding people up in Canada. 10 years ago, you'd swear the majority of them were taking the piss with their answers. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.
As for Justin Trudeau... He is the absolute pits, he seems to want society castrated. Did you seem him dressed up in all the gear when we went visiting India or wherever it was. Cringe! If Donald Trump did it, he'd be called all the cunts and racists under the sun. Sad reflection on Canadian society that he has been elected TWICE. He has very few redeeming factors, and I doubt he'd have got anywhere in politics only his Dad was that Pierre Trudeau fella.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 15, 2020, 03:38:23 PM
I got a kick out of that 'squatting slav' lad wandering around SJW events winding people up in Canada. 10 years ago, you'd swear the majority of them were taking the piss with their answers. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case.
As for Justin Trudeau... He is the absolute pits, he seems to want society castrated. Did you seem him dressed up in all the gear when we went visiting India or wherever it was. Cringe! If Donald Trump did it, he'd be called all the cunts and racists under the sun. Sad reflection on Canadian society that he has been elected TWICE. He has very few redeeming factors, and I doubt he'd have got anywhere in politics only his Dad was that Pierre Trudeau fella.
You're just jealous.... :laugh:
https://www.businessinsider.com/canadian-pm-trudeau-mocked-for-political-fashion-blunders-in-india-2018-2?amp&r=US&IR=T
Don't be so quick to knock all aspects of progressiveness now...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/dutch-official-advice-to-single-people-find-a-sex-buddy-for-lockdown-coronavirus
Suppose the red light district in Amsterdam is taking a pounding
Or not....
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 15, 2020, 03:38:23 PM
I think squatting slav is based in Vancouver I have only seen a few of his videos but he was hilarious trolling Antifa. :laugh:
I won't even start on Trudeau I already mentioned him on here a number of times if I start again I won't be able to stop :laugh:.
Yes the Indian trip and dance was one of his many low points. Before he became a politician he was a drama teacher.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOU_Wg-BGVI
His father was bad as well fucked a lot citizens over but at least he was intelligent not like Trudeau. Trudeau is not far off the way people are talking about Joe Biden. He's not as far gone as him but Trudeau really doesn't have a clue what he is doing. All you have to do is look at him speaking I can't even watch his broadcast for updates about lockdowns etc. because he is so hard to listen to. I just hear whats going on from other people.
He refuses to answer any difficult questions on any topic that is posed to him. He just dances around the subject without giving a proper answer. When he is doing this it's clear from the his body language that it is a rehearsed response. I know most politicians do this from time to time but Trudeau does it with literally everything it's so frustrating both watching him doing it and seeing that nobody in the media calls him out on it and just lets it slide. It's similar to the way when you call a company like say eBay or something when you have an issue and the customer service rep just keeps quoting policy to you word for word instead of answering what you are asking.
I think I posted this here before but back when Trudeau was in his 20's he went camping with some friends he refused to let the other lads light a campfire because of the carbon footprint it would create. That's the type of nonsensical person that is now running an entire country into the ground and getting nothing but praise for it.
On the other side he has a a number of political scandals including breach of ethics (First Canadian PM in history to have done this), Groping allegations also came out against the self proclaimed male feminist and his response was "they experienced it differently then I did" :laugh: that was it the media dropped the whole thing it was never mentioned again most outlets didn't even mention the story to begin with.
He was also involved in a massive construction scandal were he was making sure an Engineering company he had financial interest in was getting awarded contracts. He forbid the police in Canada from looking it and that was that it was also dropped and not brought up again. He also has switched the phrase illegal with irregular. So no instead of having illegal immigrants crossing the border into Quebec Canada now has irregular migrants crossing the border.
:laugh:Anyway sorry for the off topic.
Irregular migrants? In fact, that doesn't even surprise me. 'Identifies as female' in California means you are, to all intents and purposes, a female, even if you look like pre-bandana Paddy Kennedy.
In the USA, illegal alien is now a form of hate speech. 'Undocumented' is the mot du jour. A bit of Tucker (Carlson) porn is an excellent antidote to this changing of speech norms, if one were so inclined.
I had understood at least part of that particular shift in language usage was due to certain groups indiscriminately referring to anyone not yet processed as "illegal", which is erroneous. Hence, if people aren't arsed learning how the legal immigration system of their own country works, then at least try to tone down the language. A pointless exercise to be sure, but only because you can't fight dumb by dumbing down.
Where's the middle ground between legal and illegal though?
17?
Anyone here getting to go back to work after this evening's announcement? Anyone secretly a bit disappointed that the enforced break is about to end?
It's strange for me how quickly the new normal starts to feel normal. I've said it already, but depending on how one wants to look at it this is a unique opportunity to take the focus off the bigger picture and enjoy having fuck all to do or to plan for. Of course it's only in the moment and there is surely worse to come but still.. I never knew how many little places there were within 5km of my gaff because I was always heading off out to places seemingly better in my free time, for example. I've been getting on the bicycle instead of getting into the car and sometimes even actually walking to the shop. I don't want this to go on forever or anything like that but I have determined to make the most of what I'm presented with. I wonder is this the same feeling lads get when they are fermenting the hooch in prison? Am I becoming institutionalised?
Quote from: astfgyl on May 15, 2020, 08:08:13 PM
Anyone here getting to go back to work after this evening's announcement? Anyone secretly a bit disappointed that the enforced break is about to end?
It's strange for me how quickly the new normal starts to feel normal. I've said it already, but depending on how one wants to look at it this is a unique opportunity to take the focus off the bigger picture and enjoy having fuck all to do or to plan for. Of course it's only in the moment and there is surely worse to come but still.. I never knew how many little places there were within 5km of my gaff because I was always heading off out to places seemingly better in my free time, for example. I've been getting on the bicycle instead of getting into the car and sometimes even actually walking to the shop. I don't want this to go on forever or anything like that but I have determined to make the most of what I'm presented with. I wonder is this the same feeling lads get when they are fermenting the hooch in prison? Am I becoming institutionalised?
I've been working one day a week all along. The whole company is back full time on Monday.
My colleagues are going to be shocked at how much their work place has changed.. :laugh:
I'm not back until September, and I'll be crushed! No exams, 1/3 of the classes and barely any contact from parents, result!
I have this niggling feeling that I should be making better use of all the time I have on my hands. I have Uni exams in June and I've done Scottish Football Association for them. For all my home workout aspirations, the 7 kilos I lost in the 6 weeks before the lockdown have been regained with a little extra on top. Saw myself in profile in a shop window whilst out running earlier, titties and belly jiggling where there were none before!
On the plus side, I'm on level 1150 on gardenscapes, and I'm slaughtering Duolingo instead of using the expensive textbook I have for my French exam which is in 5 weeks. Ya!
I'm back in on Monday, mornings only for two weeks to get some lab stuff done. For the foreseeable future, absolutely everything that can be done from home has to be done like that; offices should be empty at all times they've said, no more than 30% of total personnel from each team in at any given time. Gonna be pretty strange.
Working from home now 2 months, my company set its new date from aug to sep 1st. And even at that they are most likely going to do a rotation based return.
A group in that can sit and social distance within the office within reason for say a month.
Next group come in while group 1 go home, and so on and over time increasing the number of people until its 110% ok for everyone. I'd say Dec maybe even Jan 1 before everyone is back in full gear.
I was back out on Tuesday. Wasn't expecting to be back until next week so no complaints.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 15, 2020, 05:55:26 PM
I had understood at least part of that particular shift in language usage was due to certain groups indiscriminately referring to anyone not yet processed as "illegal", which is erroneous. Hence, if people aren't arsed learning how the legal immigration system of their own country works, then at least try to tone down the language. A pointless exercise to be sure, but only because you can't fight dumb by dumbing down.
I haven't heard of any other country referring to anyone who enters a country illegally as irregular. The irregular is referring to the thousands of people who crossed illegally from the US into Quebec not someone who just landed on a flight and is trying to get a visa sorted through official channels.
Regardless of a persons personal situation entering the country illegally is illegal. If someone robs a bank because they need to feed their family we can't say they just withdrew money from the bank in an irregular fashion.
No sign of me going back yet which I am perfectly happy with no interest in going back to an office. I have to get the subway to work. The subway system were I am would make bus eireann look good they struggled greatly to handle things during rush hour before all this started now with the distancing and people only being allowed to sit on every second seat I have no idea how they are going to be able to handle things once everyone is forced back to work.
I have actually been at work more than usual since this buzz kicked in but it has been oddly peaceful compared to the usual and a good few of the staff are excused and I much prefer it without them even though I actually like them. It's a weird and conflicting buzz
Quote from: mickO))) on May 15, 2020, 09:12:24 PM
I haven't heard of any other country referring to anyone who enters a country illegally as irregular. The irregular is referring to the thousands of people who crossed illegally from the US into Quebec not someone who just landed on a flight and is trying to get a visa sorted through official channels.
Regardless of a persons personal situation entering the country illegally is illegal. If someone robs a bank because they need to feed their family we can't say they just withdrew money from the bank in an irregular fashion.
Whether it be the US, Canada or most other western countries where such a thing exists, refugee/asylum claimants cross the border "irregularly". It is not illegal to claim asylum in Canada, far from it. However, most asylum seekers will fall under your garden variety xenophobe's term "illegal immigrant". In all of these cases, it's an erroneous term.
You can disagree with and even protest against Canadian/whereverian law on immigration til you're blue in the face, that won't change the obvious fact that the law, and only the law, is what makes something illegal or legal, so as long as you have specific laws governing border interceptions and processing of asylum claims, "illegal" is an erroneous term in a large proportion of cases. Which is not to say that illegal immigration doesn't exist, it just doesn't cover as many people as is thought.
Edit: And to bring it all back to coronavirus, those concerned about immigration are getting themselves an additional silver lining from it at the moment, what with borders shutting hard. Enjoy!
You are suppose to seek asylum in the 1st country you land in and the entire system has been completely taken advantage of many of the people crossing the border into Canada are not fleeing any sort of persecution they just want the easy way out. All they have to say is I am being persecuted because of my religious beliefs or sexual orientation and they are welcomed with open arms nobody has any idea if it's true or not.
These people land in the US the US is not a war torn country they are not fleeing persecution in New York. It's like the refugees that were landing in places like Hungry then demanding they be brought to countries like Germany or Italy instead because the benefits in Hungry were not good enough for them.
I know a girl here personally who is from Cameroon was on a 2 year visa it ran out so she applied for asylum on the basis of a civil war going on back home her entire family and extended family are back in Cameroon nowhere near the conflict with not a bother on them and she was granted asylum now she's been set up with an apartment and gets cheque's each month she is also working for cash on the side. Thats only a very small and mild example of how people are taking advantage of this.
I don't doubt there are genuine cases for asylum out there but what are places like Canada suppose to do take in entire populations while it's own people are struggling just because of a small percentage of genuine cases.
Yes they say borders have been closed but people who live in the crossing areas are saying different.
Totally side-stepping the actual legal issue there I see. The US, under Trump, has cut its ceiling for asylum seekers to a third of what it was a couple of years ago, down now to only 30,000 per annum. This leaves Canada taking up a lot of the slack. All your "supposed to"s carry no legal weight in any case, so refer back to above post; the law is what makes something legal or illegal, and by Canadian law a refugee/asylum claimant who has crossed the border in an "irregular" manner is, by the strictest definition of the term, not an illegal immigrant, however much that may annoy bees in various mounty hats.
Nothing has changed for me.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 16, 2020, 01:52:49 AM
Totally side-stepping the actual legal issue there I see. The US, under Trump, has cut its ceiling for asylum seekers to a third of what it was a couple of years ago, down now to only 30,000 per annum. This leaves Canada taking up a lot of the slack. All your "supposed to"s carry no legal weight in any case, so refer back to above post; the law is what makes something legal or illegal, and by Canadian law a refugee/asylum claimant who has crossed the border in an "irregular" manner is, by the strictest definition of the term, not an illegal immigrant, however much that may annoy bees in various mounty hats.
For a limited time, that may be the case. Overstaying tourist visas (typically 90 days), is how the majority of the estimated 50,000 Irish people, with no right whatsoever to do so, are illegally in the USA. For a three month period, they are not strictly illegal aliens, but are undoubtedly so when that visa is no longer valid. Considering I hurled with one or two of them, xenophobic it certainly is not.
Yup, if your visa runs out and you stay on clandestinely, then you're an illegal immigrant. As I said, it exists, it just doesn't apply to irregular, border-crossing refugee claimants...and they're the ones most often in the "goddamn illegal immigrants!!!" crossfire, not your old sliotar belting pals.
Are they though? The ones who come via Mexico are, for the most part, economic migrants with bogus asylum claims, if any.
Without tarring them all with the same brush, I think the frustration stems from the inevitable lowering of unskilled wages, and the brazen defiance of federal law by so-called 'sanctuary cities' like Portland and San Francisco. If those immigration laws are not enforced or defied, the question must be, why bother adhere to any others. I hate to use the word 'nuanced' (along with bat-shit crazy and resting bitch face, an affront to God), but it's not as simple as 'fuckin' foreigners, beaners, spics' etc. Hilary Clinton tried to make that argument and she paid the price.
All I'm saying is that the term "illegal immigrant" is semantically incorrect in a large part of its application. I'm saying what is; all of your arguments are about what ye think ought to be. This started with the position that using a term other than "illegal immigrants" was political correctness gone mad, but it took one post to reveal that, indeed, in the large, the target of the ire was in fact non-illegal asylum claimants. It's really that easy to infer someone's politics based on certain battles they choose.
Do you think even a significant number of border jumpers are asylum seekers though? I seriously doubt it.
'Ones politics' aren't necessarily defined by a position on one issue.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 16, 2020, 01:04:56 PM
Do you think even a significant number of border jumpers are asylum seekers though? I seriously doubt it.
'Ones politics' aren't necessarily defined by a position on one issue.
If you're fighting essentially for the right to refer to a group of people as "illegal" immigrants, and positioning yourself in doing so against someone you see as the epitome of the politics you stand against, I mean, it's not rocket science. For the record, there's very, very little about Trudeau I like (maybe only the idea of him potentially cuckolding Trump, ha!), but that's more because of his neo-liberalism than his "liberal" stances; same as with Varadkar and Macron.
Anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_Canada
Given Canadian laws on asylum seeking, you'd be mad not to claim asylum as a border crosser, unless you were a convicted criminal. And although it's another favoured right wing trope to claim that a large percentage are criminals, this just isn't the case:
QuoteEntering Canada outside of a port of entry is not an offence under the Criminal Code, but regulations under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act do require any person seeking to enter Canada to "appear without delay" at the nearest port of entry. While entering Canada outside of a port of entry may represent an unlawful act, section 133 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act requires that charges related to the crossing are stayed while an entrant's claim is being processed. If the Canadian government grants refugee status, any charges are stayed permanently.
So, while (as you'll see if you read the rest of the article) there's some kind of argument to be made for calling the border crossing itself "illegal" (though it's a weak case, since it's not a criminal offence, but whatever...), there is no case to be made for calling anyone who has sought asylum -
regardless of how they crossed the border - an "illegal immigrant", unless their claim has been rejected and they have gone AWOL in order to stay on. In fact, in order to claim asylum, you don't really have any other choice but to cross the border in an "unlawful" way, since you precisely don't have the visa, etc., to cross in by normal channels.
The video in this link explains the recent history of the current situation. It's got almost nothing to do with Trudeau btw:
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/irregular-or-illegal-the-fight-over-what-to-call-the-thousands-of-migrants-streaming-into-canada
We may be "legal", but I hope the irony of the fact that all three of us our immigrants isn't completely lost on you, and it's not like I'm living in a country "spared" the question. I just personally don't understand the desire to fight against people choosing not to use frankly dehumanizing language. Is it just the "porn"-like (your word Kev) thrill you get from throwing out the bathwater that makes you oblivious to the baby going with it?? It's intriguing to me, honestly. Means fuck all to you, means a fuck load to those who are labelled. I would say; get over yourselves.
Is it dehumanizing to call a spade a spade? I mean, if an action breaks a law, then it's illegal. That's not nativist or xenophobic, it's just applying an appropriate word to what is clearly a widespread illegal practice. If you want to go down the 'peoplekind' road with Justin, then I don't t know what to say to you.
I have nothing against anyone trying to get on in life, god knows I'd do it if I was from some lawless hellhole like El Salvador. I'd go as far as to say it shows more balls and ambition than desperation. Asylum seeking is just an arrow in the quiver for the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Sure why wouldn't you, if you knew you couldn't be kicked out immediately? The Afghani and Pakistani lads I came across stranded in Belgrade (none of them had any intention of staying there) were ballsy chancers, clearly illegal economic migrants, but you can be full sure each and every one of them had a story prepared about how they needed asylum. None of that excuses the behaviour of the Hungarian police acting like absolute cunts at the border, playing loud music at night, threatening them and kicking the shit out of, stripping and booting the ones they caught back over the border. Nor the Moroccan police going into migrant camps outside Ceuta and deliberately breaking hands and arms so they boys couldn't scale the fence. That's dehumanising. Calling them illegal immigrants, I'd say, is the least of their worries.
A friend of mine who works in the Spanish 'home office' told me that less than 1 in a 100 asylum claims have any merit, and it's almost blue-moon time when one is accepted, because it's almost always bullshit. She told me some lad tried to bite his tongue off rather than be sent back to Palestine, which is desperate and you'd be cold hearted not to have some empathy with poor cunts that desperate to get away from dysfunctional places like the Hamas run areas there.
Doesn't make them any less illegal immigrants if they sneak into another country illegally.
I do remember the time of the Trudeau blackface scandal a while ago, as the story was emerging.
First it was "photos surface of Trudeau in blackface from an event", then "Trudeau in blackface on two occasions", and then shortly afterwards, with a big collage of Trudeau in said blackface from various events, Trudeau "can't recall how many times he wore blackface makeup". I was fucking crying laughing after refreshing the page, like something out of a demented comedy
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/19/justin-trudeau-wearing-blackface-details-emerge-third-incident
Tucker Carlson though? Not the answer imo, to put it mildly, an obnoxious hateful cunt spouting outrage for viewing numbers. Was at a buddy's gaff in the states last year and the lads were wondering had I seen Fox News before, I said not live and in the flesh, so we threw it on for the laugh. Wasn't much of a laugh, only stuck a few minutes before turning it off.
To be honest the term "illegal alien" may as well be hate speech - that's about the only context where you'll see it used and it's incredibly dehumanising. And that is a real problem, no matter how far we feel we may be removed from it.
Tucker-porn is amazing. Hateful? How so? He is obnoxious, full of himself and he makes his guests look like imbeciles, although they dig their own graves by defending the indefensible at times. Totally partisan, he makes no bones about it. Enormously entertaining
Buzzfeed, Vox and the Young Turks more your cup of tea?
Ain't that always the way; you hit someone up with statistics, facts, legal definitions, and they come back at you with anecdotes. Tucker Carlson would indeed be proud. As would the liberal homologues of his you listed. Two wrongs and all that...
Im that bored today I'm sat here reading all this like..
(https://media.giphy.com/media/pUeXcg80cO8I8/giphy.gif)
You linked a Wikipedia page, which is stretching 'facts, statistics etc' to the limit, wouldn't you agree?
Some filibustering, assumptions about my politics (rightly or wrongly) and hesitance as to whether or not you believe crossing a border undocumented is illegal or not, I find it hard to take your gleeful 'ha, anecdotal!' concluding post altogether seriously. The 'anecdote' I provided is from the horses mouth, about as valuable as your two click research into Canadian immigration policy.
I
An asylum seeker isn't an illegal immigrant, regardless of how they entered the country they're seeking asylum in (presuming the country in question has asylum laws), unless their asylum is refused and they nevertheless stay on. So even where the act of crossing the border may be seen by some as "illegal", such a border crossing is the only way of attaining the legal state (make note of difference between an act and a state) of asylum/refugee claimant. There's the nuance that means referring to all of them as if they're criminals is erroneous. This isn't specific to Canada, but it was safe enough to assume it applied there too that when I did a two click research, there were no surprises.
Doing something illegal and being a criminal are not mutually exclusive. There's another nuance for you.
Shut your boring holes, you cunts. Nuancehammer!
"Data from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre, from midnight, Thursday 14 May (relating to 23,879 cases), reveals that 57% are female and 42% are male with a median age for confirmed cases of 48.
3,092 cases (13%) have been hospitalised, 389 of whom were admitted to ICU."
So out of around 1500 deaths, 389 made it to ICU? Anyone have any thoughts around what happened to the rest? Did it suddenly get them before they could make it to hospital or did they die on the ward without being sent to ICU or were they somewhere they couldn't be moved from like a home or such like? I'm usually missing something obvious so if anyone has any idea, what is the story with that?
Otherwise, today's figures are encouraging but that is to be expected given the lockdown. Italy have taken an interesting stance given how badly they were affected as well, by deciding to forgo the quarantine requirement for inbound arrivals (and border hopping illegally entering asylum seekers who may or may not prove legal in the long run lol) but it brings us back to the risk of loss of life vs risk of loss of livelihood debate again and Italy seem to have decided enough is enough when it comes to the tourism sector.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 16, 2020, 07:16:47 PM
Shut your boring holes, you cunts. Nuancehammer!
🤣🤣
Cheers for the chuckle. TOMMY OUT
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 16, 2020, 05:42:43 PM
An asylum seeker isn't an illegal immigrant, regardless of how they entered the country they're seeking asylum in (presuming the country in question has asylum laws), unless their asylum is refused and they nevertheless stay on. So even where the act of crossing the border may be seen by some as "illegal", such a border crossing is the only way of attaining the legal state (make note of difference between an act and a state) of asylum/refugee claimant. There's the nuance that means referring to all of them as if they're criminals is erroneous. This isn't specific to Canada, but it was safe enough to assume it applied there too that when I did a two click research, there were no surprises.
Under The Dublin agreement asylum seekers are required to make a claim in the first safe country they land in. Given that there are so few direct flights between Ireland and a lot of the regions where claims are made from they should be turned back right away.
Quote from: hellfire on May 16, 2020, 08:55:52 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 16, 2020, 05:42:43 PM
An asylum seeker isn't an illegal immigrant, regardless of how they entered the country they're seeking asylum in (presuming the country in question has asylum laws), unless their asylum is refused and they nevertheless stay on. So even where the act of crossing the border may be seen by some as "illegal", such a border crossing is the only way of attaining the legal state (make note of difference between an act and a state) of asylum/refugee claimant. There's the nuance that means referring to all of them as if they're criminals is erroneous. This isn't specific to Canada, but it was safe enough to assume it applied there too that when I did a two click research, there were no surprises.
Under The Dublin agreement asylum seekers are required to make a claim in the first safe country they land in. Given that there are so few direct flights between Ireland and a lot of the regions where claims are made from they should be turned back right away.
That conversation deserves its own thread cos it's very complex. But, I'd agree with what you say there. The lads are getting right stuck in and it's very interesting!
Statistics...? You only have to look at Declan Rice to see the flaws in statistical analysis!
Came across this yesterday.
An interesting watch. Not sure what to take away from it though, as this fella is always moaning about stuff. Probably a case of half truths lost in a sea of conspiring ramblings.
https://youtu.be/Avc6_ftzk3w
That lad is prone to exaggeration, paranoia and outright lies. I'm familiar with Dr Cahill, voted for her in the last election. Not doing much for her credibility by doing an interview with him. That said I'd be shocked if RTE or any of the main papers agreed to question her.
While I am inclined to agree with what she is saying and it supports a lot of my own thoughts and feelings around the whole situation I am equally inclined to block out yer man as much as I can as I feel he is getting in the way of what she is saying. He should have let her speak without leading it to other things to allow us all to make our own minds up on what she is saying rather than associating her with the usual Bill Gates and MSM thing which is always dismissed out of hand by 99% of people.
In the interests of balancing my own bias out with a small bit of research, I checked the number of deaths on rip.ie from April 2017, April 2018 and April 2019 and compared those with April 2020.
The results are:
April 2017 - 3194 Deaths.
April 2018 - 3476 Deaths.
April 2019 - 3487 Deaths.
April 2020 - 4934 Deaths.
The average taken from the first 3 years is 3386. Which leaves April 2020 at 1548 deaths above the average of the previous 3 years.
It still doesn't change what she says about vaccination not being the solution and still doesn't change the idea that the worldwide approach taken got out of hand very quickly, or what she says regarding social distancing and the manner of reporting. The fact there were 1500 deaths above average in a single month is worth thinking about though. My own take is that the vulnerable groups should have been looked after first and foremost but not in the way it was applied to basically everybody. There is for sure a narrative being spun here but it is not baseless by any means. I think the all-in approach taken by our government here was riddled with mistakes and hysteria but won't be rowed back on now and they will continue to provide evidence that only backs up what they have done rather than backs up the idea that they went too far and continue to do so. The evidence now is showing that schools probably shouldn't have been closed down and suddenly come reports of a Kawasaki Disease type of illness affecting children on the RTE website and the narrative that they did the right thing continues.
The whole lockdown approach to compensate for the expected surge was necessary due to the fact that our national health service was in shit. That is the fault of successive governments, not of the citizens. We pay our taxes, and they decide which wall to piss them up against as has always been the case. They piss our money away on imaginary banking debt for years while the banks continue to prosper, they piss it away on exorbitant and needless consultation fees before a block is ever laid on the worlds most expensive hospital in the worlds most inappropriate site with costs spiralling out of control and no desire to row back on it whatsoever in spite of it being a doomed project from the beginning. The money we have in this country that could have been pumped into fixing the health service from all types of angles is regularly pissed away on nothing at all. That is why we are locked down, and now they have to double down on the narrative that this is not years of failures by successive short sighted governments coming back to haunt us in the most economy crippling fashion of all time and so the merry go round continues and the carousel of shite continues to turn in front of our eyes. And we are all fucking heroes and there is no fate but that which we make for ourselves as we are driven by our cunt of a government into our fate not of our own making which will be years of financial ruin and deprivation of basic freedoms such as walking into a shop without a fucking mask on. Made for ourselves indeed.
We will be the ones paying for this with our money and our freedoms and I think we should be all casting a critical eye on how this whole thing was approached from day one and how things are generally done in this fucking backward cunt of a country which has the potential to be an actual great and fair and wonderful country but keeps getting dragged down by the short sighted nature of government and the greed associated with personal gain which has blighted this country for decades. If there was to be anything good to come of all this it should be the fixing of the things that are actually wrong at the source and not the sticking plaster of a lockdown and severe public controls to keep the narrative going that the government are doing the right thing to save us poor joes from ourselves because we don't know how to wash our fucking hands or not visit granny when we are sick. The real sickness at play here is what is being done in front of our eyes on a constant basis and not just since covid 19 came into the picture.
But everybody will forget about all of that when we are kindly told we can now travel 20km sometime in June now that we have behaved ourselves for long enough. We have been truly heroic strolling our 2km and our 5km, and all of us are very good children.
The whole lockdown approach to compensate for the expected surge was necessary because there isn't a health service in the world which was prepared for the glut of people needing treatment which mass exposure to Covid-19 would have brought. Not defending the mismanagement of public health for a second, but the people voted for this shit. It struck home in 2007 when, at the height of Celtic Tiger bullshittery and in the middle of a dying-on-trolleys-in-corridors epidemic, the people of this country saw fit to re-elect FF. This is what the people want, why would any government pour money into a health service when the people will vote them in for delivering a third-world service. Don't blame the politicians for this one when the people have given it a thumbs up. It's easy to continually blame to politicos but sometimes the people need to fucking own up and say "Yeah, I was grand with it because I could afford a house in Foxrock and I have a beemer so I voted for the same old shite." But I digress...
There's no treatment for this thing, other than plying vitims with oxygen and steroids and hoping for the best, it would appear. Based on the experience of a mate, each patient will spend a few weeks in hospital, taking up resources and space which would otherwise be allocated to victims of other diseases and incidents. That is why there is a lockdown, not to treat Covid-19, but to leave space to treat everything else we have allocated resources, space and budget for based on past experience. There isn't a country in the the world who was prepared for this so there is no point rattling the pots and pans in that particular regard.
Moving on slightly, has anyone watched any Bundesliga this weekend? Terribly dull. It has really highlighted just how important the crowd are to making football interesting. All those big money contracts are a thing of the past unless they can get crowds back into stadiums very quickly. It’s a fucking dull, dull game without the fans.
I would point to the fact that the Swedish health service appear to be doing ok with it. You make a fair point that the voter only cares about the now and not the bigger picture though. We sell ourselves out much too easily in this country. I don't dispute the initial locking down in fact I think it came too late as it was, but it is looking increasingly unnecessary as time goes on and it irritates me that no one can stand up and say ok we may have been overcautious but we have a different idea now as more evidence comes to light from our own experience and I would respect the government more for having a pair of balls in that regard. Also you say it was to compensate for the other regular stuff that needs to be done but there has been none of it getting done, as reported by all mainstream news outlets in this country so that is a bit of a debatable point. Also the fact that the vast majority of these reported deaths have come from nursing homes or have been from unreported settings really adds fuel to the idea that a mass lock down was not what was needed, but I will concede that this is all being learned as time goes on and wasn't immediately apparent so I can't argue with the initial decision only how it has been handled since and is still being handled.
Small bit of an edit here to wonder why only one line of thinking gets on to RTE or the radio stations and ever reaches the ears of the average citizen around all this. Like even if yer one isn't right about everything there, surely her area of expertise and her experience and her seemingly high standing in the scientific community affords her the right to be heard, even if it is only to be rubbished. It's terrible that all dissenting voices be reduced to appearing with the likes of the ginger lad in the video, who if anything will add fuel to the fire of her opinion being discredited.
I didn't see any of the Bundesliga but mostly because I had no urge to do so in spite of being starved of soccer for so long. Is it really that bad without the crowd? Maybe a bit of canned laughter would add to proceedings, it seems to work for shit comedies
Herself diagnosed with a viral throat infection, just been tested to see if it's the coronavirus. She's barely been out, but once since lockdown easing a week ago here. Testing clinic said they've had a spike in calls for test appointments just over this weekend. Won't be going back to work tomorrow now until we get the results in the afternoon.
Hopefully that worry will soon be put to bed for you. As much as I give out about certain elements of all of this, I wouldn't disregard or minimize the effect it has on people. That is a decent turnaround time for results and I wish ye all the best with it.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 17, 2020, 05:37:06 PM
I would point to the fact that the Swedish health service appear to be doing ok with it. You make a fair point that the voter only cares about the now and not the bigger picture though. We sell ourselves out much too easily in this country. I don't dispute the initial locking down in fact I think it came too late as it was, but it is looking increasingly unnecessary as time goes on and it irritates me that no one can stand up and say ok we may have been overcautious but we have a different idea now as more evidence comes to light from our own experience and I would respect the government more for having a pair of balls in that regard. Also you say it was to compensate for the other regular stuff that needs to be done but there has been none of it getting done, as reported by all mainstream news outlets in this country so that is a bit of a debatable point. Also the fact that the vast majority of these reported deaths have come from nursing homes or have been from unreported settings really adds fuel to the idea that a mass lock down was not what was needed, but I will concede that this is all being learned as time goes on and wasn't immediately apparent so I can't argue with the initial decision only how it has been handled since and is still being handled.
Small bit of an edit here to wonder why only one line of thinking gets on to RTE or the radio stations and ever reaches the ears of the average citizen around all this. Like even if yer one isn't right about everything there, surely her area of expertise and her experience and her seemingly high standing in the scientific community affords her the right to be heard, even if it is only to be rubbished. It's terrible that all dissenting voices be reduced to appearing with the likes of the ginger lad in the video, who if anything will add fuel to the fire of her opinion being discredited.
I didn't see any of the Bundesliga but mostly because I had no urge to do so in spite of being starved of soccer for so long. Is it really that bad without the crowd? Maybe a bit of canned laughter would add to proceedings, it seems to work for shit comedies
I work for a medical device company. We make, essentially, two types of devices: life saving ones and life enhancing ones. Emergency surgeries are still going ahead when possible. Life enhancing ones have been stopped dead. As a result, that side of the business is on its hole and production has stopped but we're still making the others, there is still a demand. Surgery is still taking place when it's needed.
Hopefully it's a false alarm, Chris, all the best.
Quote from: Juggz on May 17, 2020, 05:55:24 PM
I work for a medical device company. We make, essentially, two types of devices: life saving ones and life enhancing ones. Emergency surgeries are still going ahead when possible. Life enhancing ones have been stopped dead. As a result, that side of the business is on its hole and production has stopped but we're still making the others, there is still a demand. Surgery is still taking place when it's needed.
Fair enough on the surgery side of things but I would count cancer screening as being in the life saving category. There are probably things which can wait as well though. I'm not au fait with the medical device industry so you would naturally know a lot more about that side of things than I would. Out of interest, because it seems like we are arguing over the finer points of things a lot in this thread, (not me and you I mean in general) do you have any opinion on the Government response and subsequent continuation of "Plan A" as it were?
Quote from: Juggz on May 17, 2020, 05:56:00 PM
Hopefully it's a false alarm, Chris, all the best.
To be honest, I think we'd both prefer a positive result but an easy ride of it, will see tomorrow anyway. When the doctor came to the house, he had a very basic little test he was able to run on the spot to see if the infectiom was bacterial or not. Good to see that kind of smart thinking right on the frontline.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 17, 2020, 04:16:09 PM
While I am inclined to agree with what she is saying and it supports a lot of my own thoughts and feelings around the whole situation I am equally inclined to block out yer man as much as I can as I feel he is getting in the way of what she is saying. He should have let her speak without leading it to other things to allow us all to make our own minds up on what she is saying rather than associating her with the usual Bill Gates and MSM thing which is always dismissed out of hand by 99% of people.
In the interests of balancing my own bias out with a small bit of research, I checked the number of deaths on rip.ie from April 2017, April 2018 and April 2019 and compared those with April 2020.
The results are:
April 2017 - 3194 Deaths.
April 2018 - 3476 Deaths.
April 2019 - 3487 Deaths.
April 2020 - 4934 Deaths.
The average taken from the first 3 years is 3386. Which leaves April 2020 at 1548 deaths above the average of the previous 3 years.
It still doesn't change what she says about vaccination not being the solution and still doesn't change the idea that the worldwide approach taken got out of hand very quickly, or what she says regarding social distancing and the manner of reporting. The fact there were 1500 deaths above average in a single month is worth thinking about though. My own take is that the vulnerable groups should have been looked after first and foremost but not in the way it was applied to basically everybody. There is for sure a narrative being spun here but it is not baseless by any means. I think the all-in approach taken by our government here was riddled with mistakes and hysteria but won't be rowed back on now and they will continue to provide evidence that only backs up what they have done rather than backs up the idea that they went too far and continue to do so. The evidence now is showing that schools probably shouldn't have been closed down and suddenly come reports of a Kawasaki Disease type of illness affecting children on the RTE website and the narrative that they did the right thing continues.
The whole lockdown approach to compensate for the expected surge was necessary due to the fact that our national health service was in shit. That is the fault of successive governments, not of the citizens. We pay our taxes, and they decide which wall to piss them up against as has always been the case. They piss our money away on imaginary banking debt for years while the banks continue to prosper, they piss it away on exorbitant and needless consultation fees before a block is ever laid on the worlds most expensive hospital in the worlds most inappropriate site with costs spiralling out of control and no desire to row back on it whatsoever in spite of it being a doomed project from the beginning. The money we have in this country that could have been pumped into fixing the health service from all types of angles is regularly pissed away on nothing at all. That is why we are locked down, and now they have to double down on the narrative that this is not years of failures by successive short sighted governments coming back to haunt us in the most economy crippling fashion of all time and so the merry go round continues and the carousel of shite continues to turn in front of our eyes. And we are all fucking heroes and there is no fate but that which we make for ourselves as we are driven by our cunt of a government into our fate not of our own making which will be years of financial ruin and deprivation of basic freedoms such as walking into a shop without a fucking mask on. Made for ourselves indeed.
We will be the ones paying for this with our money and our freedoms and I think we should be all casting a critical eye on how this whole thing was approached from day one and how things are generally done in this fucking backward cunt of a country which has the potential to be an actual great and fair and wonderful country but keeps getting dragged down by the short sighted nature of government and the greed associated with personal gain which has blighted this country for decades. If there was to be anything good to come of all this it should be the fixing of the things that are actually wrong at the source and not the sticking plaster of a lockdown and severe public controls to keep the narrative going that the government are doing the right thing to save us poor joes from ourselves because we don't know how to wash our fucking hands or not visit granny when we are sick. The real sickness at play here is what is being done in front of our eyes on a constant basis and not just since covid 19 came into the picture.
But everybody will forget about all of that when we are kindly told we can now travel 20km sometime in June now that we have behaved ourselves for long enough. We have been truly heroic strolling our 2km and our 5km, and all of us are very good children.
you're always so close to the truth. your posts are always reasonable and well written. take the last step man!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 17, 2020, 06:17:48 PM
Quote from: Juggz on May 17, 2020, 05:56:00 PM
Hopefully it's a false alarm, Chris, all the best.
To be honest, I think we'd both prefer a positive result but an easy ride of it, will see tomorrow anyway. When the doctor came to the house, he had a very basic little test he was able to run on the spot to see if the infectiom was bacterial or not. Good to see that kind of smart thinking right on the frontline.
Hopefully she'll be alright. My dad is 68 with a myriad of health complaints and he was fine after it.
Fingers crossed for a good result for both of you, BSC.
Cheers folks.
If we do die though, I hope I at least live long enough to see how astfgyl will get on in arriving to this truth he is so near to, yet which is also apparently ineffable!
J'espere que tout va bien.
I had to take my young lad to the ER on Tuesday at 3.30 am as he had abdominal pains (turns out he had a severe case of constipation, and after a laxative suppository, he laid a dinosaur egg which he was very proud of, me too if I'm honest) and they gave him the Covid test just to be sure. The doctor on duty told me it was just procedure, zero panic or histrionics.
The most annoying part of that episode was the parking charges for the hospital.
'What's a robbing bastard, Daddy'?
Had to have one of those laxative suppositories last year. I have a rough idea what labour must be like since.
Ya, he didn't like it (good sign, wha?)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 17, 2020, 08:33:59 PM
Cheers folks.
If we do die though, I hope I at least live long enough to see how astfgyl will get on in arriving to this truth he is so near to, yet which is also apparently ineffable!
All the best with the test.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 17, 2020, 08:33:59 PM
Cheers folks.
If we do die though, I hope I at least live long enough to see how astfgyl will get on in arriving to this truth he is so near to, yet which is also apparently ineffable!
Yeah I'm really curious to see how it pans out as well! Morpheus is calling round tomorrow to throw the red pill at me from a distance of 2 metres so hopefully I will be able to embrace (not physically, no touching!) the truth sometime shortly afterwards. I think you'll make it.
And Mugz, I could do with being spoon fed this truth you speak of so I can see what I think of it.
Is it that the extent of this virus has been twisted in a way that helps to line the pockets of some large commercial interests and that fear is being used as a tool to convince the populace to relinquish their human rights and to create an acceptance that they need to be dictated to rather than advised on how to look after themselves by governments all over the world, while decreasing resistance to technological surveillance techniques being deployed on a massive scale by using the public health vs freedom debate and the use of privately owned mass media outlets and other institutions such as privately funded scientific research to tip the scales in favour of those who would benefit from the proliferation of said surveillance and who also stand to make massive financial gains from the crippling of worldwide economies? I don't know.
Is it the use of the Hero tag on healthcare workers, which conveniently sidesteps the fact that they have been treated like shit for years and were in fact ready to go on strike prior to the current crisis? I don't know.
Is it the fact that we must all remain locked down in a state of quasi martial law to cover for the chronic mismanagement of public money in this country over a period spanning decades? Again I don't know.
Is the whole situation being taken advantage of by so many vested interests in so many different ways that it is impossible to know what is really any form of the truth anyway? I don't know.
Are worldwide public health policies being driven by media hype rather than concrete scientific evidence? I still don't know, although I do accept that this new to us all and the concrete evidence and statistics are still only emerging at the present time.
Agstyl, lad, I love you. But your posts are too long lad
:laugh: I know. And I do be trying to cut them short! It's a fair critique.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 17, 2020, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 17, 2020, 08:33:59 PM
Cheers folks.
If we do die though, I hope I at least live long enough to see how astfgyl will get on in arriving to this truth he is so near to, yet which is also apparently ineffable!
Yeah I'm really curious to see how it pans out as well! Morpheus is calling round tomorrow to throw the red pill at me from a distance of 2 metres so hopefully I will be able to embrace (not physically, no touching!) the truth sometime shortly afterwards. I think you'll make it.
And Mugz, I could do with being spoon fed this truth you speak of so I can see what I think of it.
Is it that the extent of this virus has been twisted in a way that helps to line the pockets of some large commercial interests and that fear is being used as a tool to convince the populace to relinquish their human rights and to create an acceptance that they need to be dictated to rather than advised on how to look after themselves by governments all over the world, while decreasing resistance to technological surveillance techniques being deployed on a massive scale by using the public health vs freedom debate and the use of privately owned mass media outlets and other institutions such as privately funded scientific research to tip the scales in favour of those who would benefit from the proliferation of said surveillance and who also stand to make massive financial gains from the crippling of worldwide economies? I don't know.
Is it the use of the Hero tag on healthcare workers, which conveniently sidesteps the fact that they have been treated like shit for years and were in fact ready to go on strike prior to the current crisis? I don't know.
Is it the fact that we must all remain locked down in a state of quasi martial law to cover for the chronic mismanagement of public money in this country over a period spanning decades? Again I don't know.
Is the whole situation being taken advantage of by so many vested interests in so many different ways that it is impossible to know what is really any form of the truth anyway? I don't know.
Are worldwide public health policies being driven by media hype rather than concrete scientific evidence? I still don't know, although I do accept that this new to us all and the concrete evidence and statistics are still only emerging at the present time.
have you seen the children's hospital from above?
As in, on your way to heaven, like?
So, positive for a viral infection, negative for coronavirus. Hardly surprising though, since it doesn't exist. Maybe the specific lab technician who ran the test had a recent crisis of honesty and decided not to continue with the fabrication, even in cases where both the symptoms and ultimate cause fit the narrative. It's just so hard to tell :abbath:
:laugh:
:laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 18, 2020, 04:18:17 PM
So, positive for a viral infection, negative for coronavirus.
At least you know it won't descend into pneumonia like hell for a fortnight.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 18, 2020, 04:18:17 PM
Hardly surprising though, since it doesn't exist.
Ah here first Mugz, now you.
This place has gone to shit...
Edit: I took a look at the aerial view of the NCH and I think it is representative of the eye-watering sums of money gone to waste on it
I think you missed the large helping of sarcasm?
Quote from: Snare on May 18, 2020, 11:29:36 PM
I think you missed the large helping of sarcasm?
I think he replied with an equal measure
:-[ Whoops :laugh:
Did we even land on the moon ....
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0519/1139228-cornavirus-drug-china/
Sounds promising. Very early days though
People have lost the run of themselves now and seem to think the 2m guideline has been scrapped. So my kids are looking on wondering why their friends are playing together now up close and in each other's personal space. And one of their mother is a neonatal nurse >:( Some of those kids cough right into others faces as is so it's mental. Going backwards, phases be damned.
It's hard to blame kids for not grasping the gravity of the situation. I only hope the reports are accurate regarding kids not being the spreaders they were at first considered to be because I see what you are seeing as well. I let my 2 older kids out and I can see the young fella and his pals aren't acting the bollix so far but I think given a few days they will soon be wrestling out on the green as ever before. All I can do is attempt to educate them and hope some of it sinks in. The group of 4 limit is only a myth as well but again it's what I would expect from the young people. I do see that most adults appear to be doing what they are told so here's hoping that will be enough to curb the potential second wave. A pushing back of phases would be quite demoralizing for a lot of folks.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 19, 2020, 07:22:12 PM
It's hard to blame kids for not grasping the gravity of the situation. I only hope the reports are accurate regarding kids not being the spreaders they were at first considered to be because I see what you are seeing as well. I let my 2 older kids out and I can see the young fella and his pals aren't acting the bollix so far but I think given a few days they will soon be wrestling out on the green as ever before. All I can do is attempt to educate them and hope some of it sinks in. The group of 4 limit is only a myth as well but again it's what I would expect from the young people. I do see that most adults appear to be doing what they are told so here's hoping that will be enough to curb the potential second wave. A pushing back of phases would be quite demoralizing for a lot of folks.
When the fuck are you going back to work lad? :laugh:
:laugh:
I've actually been working away as normal since this kicked off. More than usual even. Can you actually fucking imagine how bad I'd be gone if I'd been at home all this time. I had a weeks holidays in April and I nearly went cracked.
I'm working WAYYYyyyyy more hours from home than in the office.
Cunts of clients know this is common and are exploiting the shit out of the situation, heaping more shite and deadlines onto us.
Poor bastards 🤣
A buddy of mine from Belgrade who is the director of a company told me he's working twice as much from home, but with the added pleasure of his wife and kids wrecking his head all day.
Us teachers? A couple of hours (at most) a day, then it's all tall drinks, taller tales and half heartedly 'suggesting' to the kids to spend less than 5 hours a day on the PlayStation.
Amirite Eoin?
I couldn't be at home, not with all the kids off school. I'd go insane.
Have any of you seen any decent homemade face coverings while out and about? I saw one today and I nearly got sick laughing. It was a sleeping mask used to hold up kitchen paper over the mouth and nose and yer one couldn't fuckin talk or anything with it. Fuckin roasting weather as well, ideal for it. Met someone yesterday with a sock over their mouth held on by a shoelace. These homemade masks will be the new covid haircuts for my general amusement I reckon
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 20, 2020, 03:29:51 PM
Poor bastards 🤣
A buddy of mine from Belgrade who is the director of a company told me he's working twice as much from home, but with the added pleasure of his wife and kids wrecking his head all day.
Us teachers? A couple of hours (at most) a day, then it's all tall drinks, taller tales and half heartedly 'suggesting' to the kids to spend less than 5 hours a day on the PlayStation.
Amirite Eoin?
Accurate 😂
Quote from: astfgyl on May 20, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
I couldn't be at home, not with all the kids off school. I'd go insane.
Have any of you seen any decent homemade face coverings while out and about? I saw one today and I nearly got sick laughing. It was a sleeping mask used to hold up kitchen paper over the mouth and nose and yer one couldn't fuckin talk or anything with it. Fuckin roasting weather as well, ideal for it. Met someone yesterday with a sock over their mouth held on by a shoelace. These homemade masks will be the new covid haircuts for my general amusement I reckon
My mother is a seamstress so has been knocking out face masks like a sweat shop. As well as plain black she also sent me some made from a Halloween themed fabric. It has tombstones with phrases like "I'm sick of this" and "you're next" written on them :laugh:
"You're Next" is after keeping me amused for nearly 2 hours now cheers for that :laugh:
Quote from: jobrok1 on May 20, 2020, 03:22:41 PM
I'm working WAYYYyyyyy more hours from home than in the office.
Cunts of clients know this is common and are exploiting the shit out of the situation, heaping more shite and deadlines onto us.
Similar to my situation I was cut to 32 hours the week of Easter Monday and since then I have probably had the busiest weeks of my entire career and my company is coming down harder then ever on people now for not having enough chargeable time. The wankers also installed a thing on everyones laptops that if you haven't touched the mouse or keyboard for over 20 mins the computer shuts itself down then everyone on Skype for business can see.
I'm surprised they haven't sent everyone cameras to install in their houses so they can watch us while we work.
Easy solution for the aul 20 minute shut down ->
(https://media.tenor.com/images/ab648d18497932da32601d081ab17ed0/tenor.gif)
Yes no just Y :laugh:. That was one of the first things I thought about. I discovered if I leave a youtube video playing most of the time it stays on but sometimes it still switches off. I haven't be able to figure out what is different during the times it switches off.
This might work although I haven't tried it myself (yet) *edit - works on my work laptop :D*
https://www.zhornsoftware.co.uk/caffeine/#download
Lads, it's a fair "Made in China" virus when half the cases are asymptomatic isn't it
4 weeks ago you could have brought the house down :laugh:
I'll take what I can get. Which is usually nothing so this is progress of sorts
i watched a turn your sock into a mask demonstration on my local green today. i think im the one who's sane, but there's no proof, and im not sure there can ever be metrics for sanity again.
I agree that common sense is a thing of the past. I have seen some shit in the last few days...
for me it feels like im being edged into nausea by society these days, but its clearly an effort to nudge people into rejecting the world which makes me think it's better to stay positive and compassionate.
i dunno, when you reach a certain age you could die any day so really what do i care :(
miss the days when we were innocent
Quote from: mugz on May 22, 2020, 09:32:13 PM
i watched a turn your sock into a mask demonstration on my local green today. i think im the one who's sane, but there's no proof, and im not sure there can ever be metrics for sanity again.
Might be a strange thing to see... but these are strange times. Have a look here https://masks4all.org
I think the basic idea of the masks seems sound enough but a lot of folks out and about with them seem to be of the mistaken idea that it is themselves they are protecting. Also, a sock would be more comfortable than the shitty medical masks I have to wear at work. The second I put it on, I'm fucking boiling hot and it feels like I'm inhaling dust or fibres all the time. Sort of like when I used to work in attics a lot
Businesses in Canada now charging a "coronavirus tax" on top of the normal costs to cover PPE staff wear (not PPE they have been forced to wear but advised to wear) some dentists are adding upwards of $100 to peoples bills for this. If it hasn't happened already I am sure it will in Ireland.
More businesses will be closing doors now if the last two months has thought people anything it's what services they can live without.
I don't think the masks and PPE idea is badly intentioned at all, but I am not surprised to see that it will be used as an excuse to further empty the pockets of the populace. There is indeed already talk of the same thing happening here and I'm sure the premium added will be far in excess of the cost to the service provider in each case. It is certainly disappointing and I expect to see much worse over the coming months as more services reopen. This pandemic will be used to further increase the gap between rich and poor instead of narrowing it and embracing the #inthistogether attitude we are currently being sold.
I am not saying we all don't need to be a bit more vigilant going forward while this hangs over us, but the outcomes are truly going to be a case of health and safety rules being applied in the most nonsensical, ridiculous and overboard fashion as they always are. And these rules will be used by everybody who needs something to hide behind for unreasonable behaviour, such as you have mentioned there mickO)))
Any chance the government have to take more money from people wont get past them. The money being put out through all this towards social welfare etc will just come back on us 10 fold under the guise of some shitty tax that'll have a sob story and some sad music playing over the background as they tell us how 'we need to build ourselves back up and we all need to help out'.. add in some quote about unity and togetherness as the same fuckers drive off in their Chauffeur driven cars.
The same in the US with the 'stimulus' check they were all delighted with... like the US won't fuck them hard with that at a later date
we're all in this together
What do you make of the witch hunt against Dominic Cummings? A glance at the headlines would have you believe he was after molesting a school full of kids before setting it on fire. Oh no, he just visited his parents. I get it, it's bad PR and displays the inherent hypocrisy of the political elite, but it's a complete overreaction and has more to do with sour remainers taking revenge rather than sincere Covid panic. Or am I jumping to conclusions?
Although, the irony of the government's surveillance techniques biting them on the arse is amusing.
We all partied
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 25, 2020, 11:56:44 AM
What do you make of the witch hunt against Dominic Cummings? A glance at the headlines would have you believe he was after molesting a school full of kids before setting it on fire. Oh no, he just visited his parents. I get it, it's bad PR and displays the inherent hypocrisy of the political elite, but it's a complete overreaction and has more to do with sour remainers taking revenge rather than sincere Covid panic. Or am I jumping to conclusions?
Although, the irony of the government's surveillance techniques biting them on the arse is amusing.
Is it an overreaction? Maybe, but the optics are not good. It seems to be rules for the plebs but are only guidelines for the elite. And when the rules from on high are flouted, the spastic droves at the beach have no reason to feel any compunction towards responsibility for the wider population. They'll still spastic their way to the beach but they sure won't give it a second thought whereas they
might have previously. Boris refused to get fully drawn into explaining Cummings' actions, totally deflected the issue, which simply re-enforces the "Us and Them" mentality.
Yep, can't argue with that but I think that Cummings, because of the part he played in Brexit and his portrayal as a Machiavellian villain in the media (which might be true, I don't know), is getting it in the neck much more heavily. And maybe that's fair enough, too. His arrogance or lack of foresight won't do his cause any favours.
Ya, as an ally of Boris, he was always gonna get a slating from those on the left, especially, but I reckon there's a fair bunch of Cons who thought it wasn't the smartest move on his part too. I'm not following it in a major way so I don't know if any of them have spoken out or whatever.
Definitely not just the left giving him grief, even the Daily Mail is calling for him to go, its basically Boris and a few of the higher tories that have given him backing
Don't they have a thing about unelected beurocrats wielding power or something? :laugh:
Al Capone was taken down for tax evasion. Was the sentence he got for tax evasion an over-reaction? Who cared! The cunt had to go and that's how he got got.
It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.
Whatever about any of the political stuff, his excuse has to go down as one of the greats
Cummings and goings, they're gonna all fall like Dominics ;)
They certainly dragged that Cummings business out for a while on the news.
The theory I think is that if they can keep the pressure on for 9 days he'll be fucked. I wonder how Boris will play it. He kind of had the good will of most of the country after catching a dose and having a kid, so this is a bit of an unnecessary ass-fuck for him. Cummings is being portrayed as the necessary yin to his yang so whether he has the confidence to go it alone without Cummings seems to be the big question.
In other news, I was driving through Kinnegad and noticed "1488 RIP" scrawled on the side of a hill with an Irish flag. Either they are commemorating Covid victims and unfortunately haven't updated their data or they are calling for the rise of the 4th Reich :laugh:
The media running around hounding Cummings (flouting utterly the social distancing), a lot of them hysterical screechers treating him as if he’d left a shite in someone’s pocket.
He scalded them in the press conference he held I thought. The Guardian printing unsubstantiated hearsay about ‘reported further trips’ just shows what a rag that paper is turning into. At least pretend your political agenda isn’t complete.
Really pissed me off that Tramore was flooded with Dubs today. Waterford is doing really well with Corona numbers. Surely there are beaches in Dublin they could go to. Assholes!
Beaches in Dublin are pretty shit by comparison though. Except Portmarnock, that's lovely. Seriously though it ain't cool when the whole idea of playing ball is to get back to a sort of freedom. I haven't seen the guards stopping around here all week either. That has hardly gone unnoticed if it is the same everywhere else. Are any of ye still meeting them?
howyabuds from de nortsoide heading out to all our hometowns during the summer is a defining part of the irish summer.
it's kind of like they're all dropped out from central casting
Quote from: mugz on May 29, 2020, 11:48:38 AM
howyabuds from de nortsoide heading out to all our hometowns during the summer is a defining part of the irish summer.
it's kind of like they're all dropped out from central casting
I thought that was all part of a youth outreach programme to show local 12 year old boys how to act tough and say schwaaw boyiz. :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on May 29, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
I haven't seen the guards stopping around here all week either. That has hardly gone unnoticed if it is the same everywhere else. Are any of ye still meeting them?
Meet them a lot down here. Have to go to Tramore twice a week to get groceries for the grandmother. The rule of thumb seems to be that if you want to travel from Waterford to Tramore you need a good reason. Dublin to Tramore seems OK at the moment.
Quote from: hellfire on May 29, 2020, 01:57:48 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on May 29, 2020, 11:33:23 AM
I haven't seen the guards stopping around here all week either. That has hardly gone unnoticed if it is the same everywhere else. Are any of ye still meeting them?
Meet them a lot down here. Have to go to Tramore twice a week to get groceries for the grandmother. The rule of thumb seems to be that if you want to travel from Waterford to Tramore you need a good reason. Dublin to Tramore seems OK at the moment.
The Guards don't give a shite - I had to drive from Clare to Dublin four weeks ago and they just told me to drive safe. As far as I know they can't implement the 5 mile rule as its only a recommendation and not strictly law.
I can tell from the general goings on around here that it isn't only the guards who don't give a shite. Everybody in this town is voting with their feet and doing whatever they like in terms of meeting friends and family and for right or wrong I think it's great to hear the buzz around from all the other gardens in spite of their awful taste in music
Quote from: astfgyl on May 31, 2020, 08:48:40 PM
I can tell from the general goings on around here that it isn't only the guards who don't give a shite. Everybody in this town is voting with their feet and doing whatever they like in terms of meeting friends and family and for right or wrong I think it's great to hear the buzz around from all the other gardens in spite of their awful taste in music
life is mediocre at best, people are correspondingly designed to be amused by mediocre things, ultimately leading to feelings of alienation and disgruntlement for the rest of us. summertime increases the number of attractive women in skimpy/figurehugging outfits, certainly a distraction, trying hard to hold in the gut, looking-not looking etc, I don't even know what a thing is anymore
Looking at the childcare situation here is an interesting one. It is said that childcare will be available to all from July, but that children of workers deemed essential should be prioritised where there is a shortage of spaces. What does that mean then for somebody not deemed essential if they can't get the kids minded? Do they stay on the PUP or what happens to them? There are so many holes in all of the plans I see put forward for reopening things that it is hard to see how a lot of it will be in any way workable when it actually comes down to it. So many of the health and safety ideas being touted are just not going to work in practice, or at least not in the long term if people are to get back to work.
"Anne Graham, CEO of the National Transport Authority, told the Special Oireachtas Committee on the Covid-19 Response that there needs to be a number of supporting measures to enable social distancing on public transport such as organisations continuing to encourage working from home, discouraging peak time travel except for public transport and staggered start times and longer opening hours."
So who wants to volunteer for the late start? Not fucking me, that's for sure.
Hopefully this will result in a staggered Dail as well and the cunts will have to turn up until about midnight
Quote from: astfgyl on June 02, 2020, 07:55:05 PM
"Anne Graham, CEO of the National Transport Authority, told the Special Oireachtas Committee on the Covid-19 Response that there needs to be a number of supporting measures to enable social distancing on public transport such as organisations continuing to encourage working from home, discouraging peak time travel except for public transport and staggered start times and longer opening hours."
So who wants to volunteer for the late start? Not fucking me, that's for sure.
Hopefully this will result in a staggered Dail as well and the cunts will have to turn up until about midnight
where did you drag that seabeast out from?
My impartial friends at RTE tell me all I need to know
Seeing the black lives matter protests in both the states and in London makes you wonder if that's going to give Covid another spike. Not saying people shouldn't protest, but social distancing has quickly been forgotten.
They are being cancelled for that reason.
Those carrion birds from Sky News etc hounding yer man Cummings were like a gaggle of geese, cheek by jowl following him around. Their faux-outrage seemed to trump the obvious irony of them flouting the same rules he had broken.
The one in Galway is still going ahead, despite the organisers pulling out. Given the gibshitwry that's been going on in the city during the hot spell, the next spike is imminent.
It's astounding that you're not supposed to hug yer Ma, weddings cancelled, funerals unattended, yet thousands of people protesting cheek by jowl in London and the police don't do anything.
Nuts.
lets see how the cases explode as a result.
If they do, then I will fully admit I have been wrong about the handling of the whole thing
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/29/academic-publishers-murdoch-socialist
In a way that takes more typing that I can handle, this explains a lot of what I think about a lot of this whole hysteria. TLDR, the cunts have to justify their own existence and there is no better time to be in need of funding.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 04, 2020, 01:02:12 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/29/academic-publishers-murdoch-socialist
In a way that takes more typing that I can handle, this explains a lot of what I think about a lot of this whole hysteria. TLDR, the cunts have to justify their own existence and there is no better time to be in need of funding.
If you're interested in that whole schtick, it's something I work on:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGl9IgTZcVDcyinQbosTKhrZVTTVhQ8fUg5Yc9K860AHeDpw/viewform
https://openscience-utrecht.com/2020/02/20/no-fee-science-interview-with-christopher-stevens/
Just announced from autopsy results that George Floyd was positive but asymptomatic for coronavirus. Could be a bad omen for the COVID fallout of the protests.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 04, 2020, 01:12:21 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 04, 2020, 01:02:12 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/29/academic-publishers-murdoch-socialist
In a way that takes more typing that I can handle, this explains a lot of what I think about a lot of this whole hysteria. TLDR, the cunts have to justify their own existence and there is no better time to be in need of funding.
If you're interested in that whole schtick, it's something I work on:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeGl9IgTZcVDcyinQbosTKhrZVTTVhQ8fUg5Yc9K860AHeDpw/viewform
https://openscience-utrecht.com/2020/02/20/no-fee-science-interview-with-christopher-stevens/
Very good stuff. A noble idea indeed and I was impressed reading it. I imagine it makes very uncomfortable reading for many in the scientific community. Indeed it takes the whole idea a lot farther than just blaming it on the publishers of the journals. The Megadeth quote gave the game away by the way.
I genuinely hope you do well with this. I would have signed the manifesto as a supporter, but then I am not part of the scientific community which needs to look at itself.
I'm aware this is the other side of the same coin of the mainstream news, but I'll put it out there for balance's sake. I'm aware it's just a slightly more niche nonsense, and I'll never really know what's going on, or how real anything is.
https://youtu.be/uNozXGmq3aE (https://youtu.be/uNozXGmq3aE)
Quote from: mugz on June 04, 2020, 05:05:01 PM
I'm aware this is the other side of the same coin of the mainstream news, but I'll put it out there for balance's sake. I'm aware it's just a slightly more niche nonsense, and I'll never really know what's going on, or how real anything is.
https://youtu.be/uNozXGmq3aE (https://youtu.be/uNozXGmq3aE)
Things like that intrigue me all the same, had a similar thing shown to me in the corona virus reporting. The prevalence of the number 33 in so much of the news articles.
Logically I tell myself it's nonsense, but there's a part of me that has this 'heebie jeebies' feeling that something is afoot.
I could just be mental though, and that's grand.
anyone doing neuroscience as a career will tell you they have no fucking idea how it all works, but I'm pretty sure they give a main story and a smaller side story or 'revelation' but both stories act as cement for what happens in the real world, whatever that is.
my tactic is to be aware of it all, but disregard it at the same time.
Quote from: mugz on June 04, 2020, 05:56:10 PM
anyone doing neuroscience as a career will tell you they have no fucking idea how it all works, but I'm pretty sure they give a main story and a smaller side story or 'revelation' but both stories act as cement for what happens in the real world, whatever that is.
my tactic is to be aware of it all, but disregard it at the same time.
well, they'll tell you they have no idea, if they're honest; most academics are just as jockish in their own way as rugby lads or gangsters in sports cars, or anyone else narcissistic/driven/competitive.
Why put the effort into being aware of it all, only to disregard it?
Having looked at things like the Lavon Affair, and seeing false flags are very much a reality, along with the works of the likes of Edward Bernays, it seems likely that at least some of what we see as reality isn't entirely as it seems.
It's a curious one though, as I'd very much prefer to be wrong about that.
Well, it's just disgruntlement really, the need to have a basic understanding of how life works, even if it won't really help you in any way. Most of life is experiences you don't want to have which are then forgotten about only to leave small bits of psychological damage which turn up again at a later date.
if people are being forced to have socially distanced funerals for relatives whose causes of death are being lied about, that seems serious enough to mention in some small way that things are weird and ritualistic and creepy.
Quote from: mugz on June 04, 2020, 06:19:32 PM
Most of life is experiences you don't want to have which are then forgotten about only to leave small bits of psychological damage which turn up again at a later date.
Heartwarming.
The repetition of things always gives me that creepy feeling. "The new normal" being one of them, it just feels off, hearing it everywhere.
I can't actually remember any other meme-phrases, due to not having been a young person for a while now. we must have had them back in the day but I just can't recall.
I feel pretty much as you lads do on the whole thing and have been saying it from the beginning that there is something very "off" about how all of this is playing out, although I can't pinpoint what it is exactly. Some sort of manipulation of how everything is presented is the general feeling but I just can't entirely organise my own thoughts around it with all of the conflicting information available.
The Surgisphere thing coming out over the last couple of days is another example of my general suspicions but I'll wait to see how that pans out.
Anything like a false flag operation takes an awful lot of effort. When you're dealing with many millions of agents in a dynamic system that is over-saturated with information, to the point that no human mind could ever assimilate and process all of it, why would you bother orchestrating domestic false flag operations? Just wait for one or a few of the agents to do something ridiculous (the statistical probability of this happening on a regular basis is enormous, given the size of the population), and then just spin it whatever way you want. Suggesting George Floyd and Chauvin were paid actors, or whatever; perhaps things like that were done in the past, but why bother now? Once you have begun to understand the extent of the network you're working with, you also begin to realize just how vulnerable to unpredictable randomness any precision covert strategy would be. Again, I'm talking domestically here, because there are certainly still covert overseas operations, but in somewhere like the US or the UK or France or Germany, in any country with both a sufficiently large and politically divided population as well as the means to flood the data space with too much perspective and information to be properly weighed up, you can direct your energy much more efficiently towards amplifying randomly occurring ripples into directed waves that will wash swathes of the population one way or another.
The idea that Sandy Hook or the Bataclan or any of these things were orchestrated false flag operations is, as far as I'm concerned, simultaneously an over-estimation of the competence and reliability of those who would be complicit in staging them, and an under-estimation of how well we now understand population dynamics (in no small part thanks to work on psychological herd mentality by Edward Bernays and his uncle Sigmund). Sooner or later, something mental will happen and someone will film it, or there'll be enough people who witness it and instantly start tweeting about it in real time, and when that happens, political interests working towards a power shift in one direction or another just need to be already prepared to angle it the way they see fit.
Mentioned in the TV thread that I'd watched the Mexican series An Unknown Enemy recently. We see in that just how messy covert operations are, not forgetting that everything we know about covert CIA and FBI operations, etc., we know precisely because it's a messy, unreliable way of doing things. Stuff goes wrong, and the truth is found out surprisingly quickly, and although in the long run no one seems to care, it can end a powerful politician's career. But if you're actually not involved in the original act, if you just have eyes set up everywhere so that you can opportunistically leap onto the best contender and spin it... or, as the case may be, let your opponent grab it first, having decided your best advantage is to spin what you have already predicted they will do with it. That's what we're seeing with Trump, who obviously couldn't ever pass himself off as the protector hero of blacks - nor would he want to, strategically speaking - but he can cast himself as the protector hero of middle America, "SILENT MAJORITY!", as he Tweeted yesterday or the day before. In that sense, I don't think it's credible to believe that one side is staging such things against the other side, since the ultimate voter-number advantage is very evenly matched between the opposing spin networks. In which case, and I guess this is where mugz is coming from, the staging (whether or not involved in this specific latest example) would be on yet a higher level, and the ensuing maelstrom of info-flooded perspective bashing is just something to make us feel like there is something going on that is alterable and worth getting upset over. While in fact, all that appearance of malleability and political agency on this "citizen" level is precisely what is keeping more profound things safe from interference and, thus, relatively speaking, immutable and reliable for the select few who play at that "elite" level and couldn't care less whether there's a white conservative male or a black transgender woman in the White House. You get a glimpse of the psyche of such people in The Unknown Known, the documentary about Donald Rumsfeld. He and you do not live in remotely the same world.
Personally, I'm pretty zen about it all too, deep down. I have a brain that works in certain ways and is addicted to debate and provocation, but various life experiences have left me with an observer perspective over that "me" too, and I'm totally fine with whatever is happening at a given time, and also fine with how attached my thoughts become to things I know are transient. We're neurotic, overly convoluted biological animals born of a cosmos unified in ways we can't begin to comprehend; that we exist at all, let alone in the mode we do, is such a fascinating and peculiar thing, all the shit we get up to is just part and parcel of that, and when we die, we'll just get recycled back as raw material into the stuff generator. I don't worry that some grand conspiracy is being weaved against me by organisms that are possibly even more neurotic than me, but the possibility of it makes for some incredible observations of what we strange animals are capable of.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one.
It's like there's just no respite for us, that keeping us in a heightened sense of anxiety or conflict is desirable.
What better way to have us at each others throats, than to keep us locked up for months, then at the drop of a hat have thousands out protesting, knowing we'd turn on each other for doing so.
It just all feels so unnatural.
It's hard to straddle the line of reasonably questioning these things, and tin foil hat territory. But yeah, I just have this sense I can't shake that it's all just not as it seems.
But again, it'd be nice to be wrong, because the alternative is rather disconcerting.
Cheers, some good food for thought.
I'll check out The Unknown Known, sounds right up my street. Nice one.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 04, 2020, 07:32:18 PM
I don't feel as if any of this is set up exactly as a false flag either. As you say, the logistics required to put it all in place, and the unpredictability of the results make that seem a bit too tough to be realistic. It's more of a feeling I get that as soon as something happens it is spun in so many different directions by so many conflicting interests that the reality of any given situation gets lost very quickly. It is the nature of how everything is connected and something like the proverbial butterfly effect comes into play pretty quickly. I don't think the Covid and subsequent reaction was planned as such, just now that it's here there are so many ways to distort the reporting of it and that is certainly happening.
My general feeling around it all being a bit off is that if I were to invest the time and effort into chasing it all down it would likely come down to money and profits at the base of a lot of the herding. That is the covid I'm talking about. I have little doubt that the Floyd and Chauvin thing is being used to further other agendas as well but I'll keep that one in its' own thread.
Your last paragraph is like a journal you have kept from a trip of some sort.
if you know human psychology, it's not expensive to do lots of subtle small things to get a big response
It's not even the money, I just think that the more actors involved the less likely something would be to work. The truth would surely out from somewhere.
Then again, I'm convinced the planes are involved in geoengineering or similar and that would involve a lot of actors on a massive scale and so far I don't think a single pilot has come out whistleblowing on that one, so maybe.
you assume everyone has/needs their own localised sentience. you also assume things involve lots of people but you just need to give the impression of a big event; if you did a headcount or took account of computer graphics etc you could change the world with a few thousand people
I was thinking in terms of thousands. Sure usually anything involving about more than 5 lads falls to shit because of the unpredictability of peoples' desires. I'm not saying it's impossible to keep it properly quiet, just unlikely. Actually with the internet and social media it might take only a few hundred in the right places.
Social Media = SM = S&M = Sado Masochism = We punish ourselves purposefully in the name of pleasure.
But then there is the planes thing and nothing I read to the contrary can convince me otherwise so far, so I'm contradicting myself in a way
the planes thing is multilayered, but I'm aware that to an extent they'll game you with fragments of the truth as well as complete lies.
but on the topic of nudging things one way or another, it's not expensive really, and you'd need a few thousand people 'of one mind', but you can do that with herbs rituals chemicals training and so forth, in different eras
:laugh: Ah I dunno I tried the herbs chemicals and rituals many a time and it drove me in many wildly contradictory directions at once!
Nothing is impossible though to be fair and in spite of the fact it is easier to access information than ever before, it is also so much easier than ever before to have the wool pulled over all of our eyes
now I have some idea how things are it's sort of easier, because things make more sense but also it's harder because death is closer and metaphysical stuff starts hitting home, regrets start building up, old photos fade, and yeah shit gets very intense after that midlife slump.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 04, 2020, 09:17:27 PM
:laugh: Ah I dunno I tried the herbs chemicals and rituals many a time and it drove me in many wildly contradictory directions at once!
Nothing is impossible though to be fair and in spite of the fact it is easier to access information than ever before, it is also so much easier than ever before to have the wool pulled over all of our eyes
reveal = reveil
Whenever stuff starts getting on top of me regarding the nature of the reality of existence, I fall back on talking shit with lads about stuff like skeletons having no mickey to take my mind off the uselessness of it all. It usually keeps the proverbial wolf from the door.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Quote from: astfgyl on June 04, 2020, 09:49:29 PM
Whenever stuff starts getting on top of me regarding the nature of the reality of existence, I fall back on talking shit with lads about stuff like skeletons having no mickey to take my mind off the uselessness of it all. It usually keeps the proverbial wolf from the door.
sounds like my anorexic ex gf :'(
:laugh: Mugz, you're good craic
Drawing things back on topic, I see that the phased reopening is being slightly accelerated with more stuff reopening that wasn't planned as of phase 2. Amazing what being 6 billion in the hole does for the decision making. Also I can see straight through how the government is trying to twist it in such a way as to blame the NPHET for the decisions made when they were set up as an advisory body. Like now it's a case of "We will ask them if we can". lol. Politics never dies, even when people might
Quote from: astfgyl on June 04, 2020, 10:31:12 PM
:laugh: Mugz, you're good craic
Drawing things back on topic, I see that the phased reopening is being slightly accelerated with more stuff reopening that wasn't planned as of phase 2. Amazing what being 6 billion in the hole does for the decision making. Also I can see straight through how the government is trying to twist it in such a way as to blame the NPHET for the decisions made when they were set up as an advisory body. Like now it's a case of "We will ask them if we can". lol. Politics never dies, even when people might
It's not quite as overtly weird as the Cobra group in the UK, but that's a pretty on the nose acronym.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 04, 2020, 09:02:58 PM
I was thinking in terms of thousands. Sure usually anything involving about more than 5 lads falls to shit because of the unpredictability of peoples' desires. I'm not saying it's impossible to keep it properly quiet, just unlikely. Actually with the internet and social media it might take only a few hundred in the right places.
Social Media = SM = S&M = Sado Masochism = We punish ourselves purposefully in the name of pleasure.
But then there is the planes thing and nothing I read to the contrary can convince me otherwise so far, so I'm contradicting myself in a way
on this topic the language they use such as subs, sub up, swipe up/left/right, subscriber = underwriter, that would fit in. Also all the masks are pretty nimhneach; no different than Bane a few years ago.
No lockdown in Sweden. The rest of world has Stockholm Syndrome!
Restrictions apparently lifting to allow travel within your own county too as of Monday. Grand
Fuck all to do in Limerick.
I'm sure you could take a stab at something.
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 05, 2020, 12:40:29 PM
Fuck all to do in Limerick.
Ah there's rakes to do in the county if you enjoy a few hikes, have a few planned meself. Can drive out the estuary for a look too, some nice spots that way.
Might stick to the stabbing John.
New Zealand are going well. While Sweden's infection rate seems to be growing.
Am I about to be forced into an embarrassing U-turn in my thoughts around locking down I wonder? Will I suffer the ignominy of a Lancet-like retraction of my published opinion?
Well sort of, maybe, as I thought in the very beginning that we didn't lock down hard or fast enough on importing cases and that closing the borders at the earliest opportunity would have been the way to go in the first place. I wonder if we were to get to the same place as NZ, could we start to take down the 2 metre signs and whatnot? And of course if the virus has been here since late last year as has been mentioned as a possibility, is all of that a moot point anyway?
Quote from: astfgyl on June 05, 2020, 04:24:12 PM
New Zealand are going well. While Sweden's infection rate seems to be growing.
Am I about to be forced into an embarrassing U-turn in my thoughts around locking down I wonder? Will I suffer the ignominy of a Lancet-like retraction of my published opinion?
Well sort of, maybe, as I thought in the very beginning that we didn't lock down hard or fast enough on importing cases and that closing the borders at the earliest opportunity would have been the way to go in the first place. I wonder if we were to get to the same place as NZ, could we start to take down the 2 metre signs and whatnot? And of course if the virus has been here since late last year as has been mentioned as a possibility, is all of that a moot point anyway?
is it 17 euros p/h to pretend to believe in things? I'd pay you more just because of the quality of your reasonableness- so convincing!
Nah I talk shite online for free!
Just saw that there's plans in northern Ireland that primary schools will be 2 day's a week and secondary schools will be every other week.
I'm convinced we are going to drag this shit into 2021
You're optimistic
Well work gave me a bonus so they must think it's done I suppose
Quote from: astfgyl on June 05, 2020, 10:38:37 PM
You're optimistic
Well work gave me a bonus so they must think it's done I suppose
I'll pay you to follow me around and make very benign well constructed comments about the issues of the day.
Quote from: mugz on June 06, 2020, 01:29:47 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 05, 2020, 10:38:37 PM
You're optimistic
Well work gave me a bonus so they must think it's done I suppose
I'll pay you to follow me around and make very benign well constructed comments about the issues of the day.
Those statements may seem benign, but in fact those are the ones that will poison you the quickest
Quote from: astfgyl on June 06, 2020, 01:53:06 AM
Quote from: mugz on June 06, 2020, 01:29:47 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 05, 2020, 10:38:37 PM
You're optimistic
Well work gave me a bonus so they must think it's done I suppose
I'll pay you to follow me around and make very benign well constructed comments about the issues of the day.
Those statements may seem benign, but in fact those are the ones that will poison you the quickest
so you admit it then :laugh:
Yeah, I'm a fell creature at the heart of it lol
That's some crowd in London for the protests.
Surely that's bound to have a negative effect with the R number business.
Anyone spot the LOTR's quote in the last speech!
Yeah, whoever's writing them for him is having a good laugh.
The fucker knows what he is doing after the memes that have come from the previous ones. To be fair it is a bit funny. I still don't like him though.
Quote from: Carnage on June 06, 2020, 08:39:20 PM
Yeah, whoever's writing them for him is having a good laugh.
His speech writer is some Trinity boffin. I remember looking it up when he had a Greek classics based jibe aimed at Boris and it was obvious he wasn't behind it himself. That dig garnered a lot of international traction and I reckon they've since had meetings about putting other references in because it's a good way to get people sharing the speech.
It fits in very nicely with his "one of the lads" image of drinking cans in the park with no tops on
Quote from: astfgyl on June 06, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
It fits in very nicely with his "one of the lads" image of drinking cans in the park with no tops on
loves the company of men
it's kind of refreshing to be part of the generation coming into power and writing speeches and so forth, using familiar references, but actually under that there's a cold unease. I figured when gen x got into power we'd be undoing the madness but nope, just more of the grind, more of the same.
Yeah it's just the same old ding dong over and over. I feel your unease.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 06, 2020, 09:45:29 PM
Yeah it's just the same old ding dong over and over. I feel your unease.
ding dong, leo's asian thruple no doubt, loves the special sauce
right, that'll do with the 70s comedy :o
Brings me to another thought as well. I always felt that those of our generation would be the ones to brush out the old ways and bring in a new era of enlightenment, yet here we are and they are basically the same as what came before. I wonder does every generation feel the same hope before the proverbial sand is kicked in their faces?
Quote from: astfgyl on June 06, 2020, 10:22:53 PM
Brings me to another thought as well. I always felt that those of our generation would be the ones to brush out the old ways and bring in a new era of enlightenment, yet here we are and they are basically the same as what came before. I wonder does every generation feel the same hope before the proverbial sand is kicked in their faces?
the system is designed to 'refine' us, whirling chaotic tense mysterious. I'd question if we're any better for our lives here really.
On a more mundane level I agree how jolting it is to be the generation finally coming into influence only to be cunts listening to 90s rock rather than cunts listening to showbands etc
I figured we'd be trying to improve the human condition in Ireland on a spiritual level, on an infrastructural level, on the level of cultural honesty, acting mature for once, owning up to past sins, trying to become a country with a clear reason to be. When you do that as an individual you want to guide the collective in that direction too, just even a small bit.
It sort of ties into the Score orange vs Cadet from the other thread. It's all just the same old shite with another label on it at the end of the day. Saddening really but unsurprising
We all know Cadet was clearly the superior inferior cola
.
was verbally abused in Tesco a few days ago by a woman in elbow length rubber gloves, also wearing both goggles and one of those hinged plastic face masks, complete meltdown. Threatened to be arrested, it's hard when someone's mental stress gets directed at you and all of a sudden your own adrenaline starts to pump and your emotional world becomes a mirror to someone else's.
I was just out for a walk and to pick up some bits for the kitchen; surf detergent on reduced, Nicky lemon infused kitchen roll.
Corona hassle.
Quote from: mugz on June 10, 2020, 01:36:22 AM
was verbally abused in Tesco a few days ago by a woman in elbow length rubber gloves, also wearing both goggles and one of those hinged plastic face masks, complete meltdown. Threatened to be arrested, it's hard when someone's mental stress gets directed at you and all of a sudden your own adrenaline starts to pump and your emotional world becomes a mirror to someone else's.
I was just out for a walk and to pick up some bits for the kitchen; surf detergent on reduced, Nicky lemon infused kitchen roll.
Corona hassle.
Was it because you were geared up or too close to her or just general being a bit mental?
..were you holding a 6 pack of corona? :-X
Or did you have your cock out and starting prodding her with it?
Quote from: Aborted on June 10, 2020, 05:22:51 PM
Quote from: mugz on June 10, 2020, 01:36:22 AM
was verbally abused in Tesco a few days ago by a woman in elbow length rubber gloves, also wearing both goggles and one of those hinged plastic face masks, complete meltdown. Threatened to be arrested, it's hard when someone's mental stress gets directed at you and all of a sudden your own adrenaline starts to pump and your emotional world becomes a mirror to someone else's.
I was just out for a walk and to pick up some bits for the kitchen; surf detergent on reduced, Nicky lemon infused kitchen roll.
Corona hassle.
Was it because you were geared up or too close to her or just general being a bit mental?
..were you holding a 6 pack of corona? :-X
.
nope, 2m away, but sometimes you get dragged into other peoples dramas. Sympathy is probably my response now after a few days but it was kinda grim seeing that level of hysteria
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on June 10, 2020, 05:34:07 PM
Or did you have your cock out and starting prodding her with it?
at least you could get yours out and noone would notice
Oh no, mine helps maintain a 2m distance :p
My wife was queuing outside the shop today and some woman tore into her for lining up wrong. As it turned out, after my wife told her to go fuck herself, it was pointed out that in fact it was the other woman who was standing on the wrong square. Lol, a new thing for people to dislike each other over as if we didn't have enough
Quote from: astfgyl on June 10, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
My wife was queuing outside the shop today and some woman tore into her for lining up wrong. As it turned out, after my wife told her to go fuck herself, it was pointed out that in fact it was the other woman who was standing on the wrong square. Lol, a new thing for people to dislike each other over as if we didn't have enough
you could try spreading your reasonableness around you like an infinite misty ejaculation of eh, reasonableness
I am trying all the time. I need to get more militant about it though.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 10, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
My wife was queuing outside the shop today and some woman tore into her for lining up wrong. As it turned out, after my wife told her to go fuck herself, it was pointed out that in fact it was the other woman who was standing on the wrong square. Lol, a new thing for people to dislike each other over as if we didn't have enough
it's pretty grim really being herded, not sure if my size is keeping hassle away or drawing it to me.
I've been pretty lucky, I've only had to queue outside Tesco once. Considering it serves a large catchment area (pop. about 7-7½ thousand), that's oretty good. There's a shitload of chemists in the town so no problems there.
Quote from: Carnage on June 10, 2020, 08:15:51 PM
I've been pretty lucky, I've only had to queue outside Tesco once. Considering it serves a large catchment area (pop. about 7-7½ thousand), that's oretty good. There's a shitload of chemists in the town so no problems there.
one of my local chemists went full hitler, I've changed chemist.
I've been to two in the last couple of months: one had a stand set up in the doorway, you gave them your order/prescription and they went an d got it, brought it to you. Pain in the arse but it's not my usual one. My regular one had the door locked but let people in one by one. Each was around 8-10 weeks ago, I'm sure they've copped on a bit in the interim. One I passed had barriers outside, a table with hand sanitiser, gloves etc.
Quote from: mugz on June 10, 2020, 08:07:27 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 10, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
My wife was queuing outside the shop today and some woman tore into her for lining up wrong. As it turned out, after my wife told her to go fuck herself, it was pointed out that in fact it was the other woman who was standing on the wrong square. Lol, a new thing for people to dislike each other over as if we didn't have enough
it's pretty grim really being herded, not sure if my size is keeping hassle away or drawing it to me.
Are you talking about your height or when you were waving your one eyed yoghurt thrower about in public?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on June 10, 2020, 08:43:54 PM
Quote from: mugz on June 10, 2020, 08:07:27 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 10, 2020, 06:14:38 PM
My wife was queuing outside the shop today and some woman tore into her for lining up wrong. As it turned out, after my wife told her to go fuck herself, it was pointed out that in fact it was the other woman who was standing on the wrong square. Lol, a new thing for people to dislike each other over as if we didn't have enough
it's pretty grim really being herded, not sure if my size is keeping hassle away or drawing it to me.
Are you talking about your height or when you were waving your one eyed yoghurt thrower about in public?
would like to say both, but uncertain of etiquette when in supermarket specifically to purchase yoghurt
If theres one thing I hate is being in a queue for the shop, getting a trolley for said shop and some slack jawed yokel takes your spot; "oh sorry love". No you're not sorry love you're a fucking idiot. Happened 3 times now. :laugh:
A good read on the subject
https://www.bluezones.com/2020/06/covid-19-straight-answers-from-top-epidemiologist-who-predicted-the-pandemic/
Quote from: Juggz on June 12, 2020, 03:43:16 PM
A good read on the subject
https://www.bluezones.com/2020/06/covid-19-straight-answers-from-top-epidemiologist-who-predicted-the-pandemic/
I took a read of that and that fella appears to talk a lot of sense. The only thing I'd pull him on, or ask him that the interviewer didn't ask, is what are his thoughts around the idea I have in my head that the actual amount of people infected is far greater than what we are lead to believe because of asymptomatic cases? I'd like to hear his thoughts on that. I have another idea at the same time though that there might be some issue around the test in itself and that the asymptomatic crowd could be false positives and in fact, covid 19 is way worse than we are led to believe. I have been very interested in the likelihood of both of those outcomes from the beginning and I honestly still haven't seen enough to make me pick one over the other.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 12, 2020, 09:57:14 PM
Quote from: Juggz on June 12, 2020, 03:43:16 PM
A good read on the subject
https://www.bluezones.com/2020/06/covid-19-straight-answers-from-top-epidemiologist-who-predicted-the-pandemic/
I took a read of that and that fella appears to talk a lot of sense. The only thing I'd pull him on, or ask him that the interviewer didn't ask, is what are his thoughts around the idea I have in my head that the actual amount of people infected is far greater than what we are lead to believe because of asymptomatic cases? I'd like to hear his thoughts on that. I have another idea at the same time though that there might be some issue around the test in itself and that the asymptomatic crowd could be false positives and in fact, covid 19 is way worse than we are led to believe. I have been very interested in the likelihood of both of those outcomes from the beginning and I honestly still haven't seen enough to make me pick one over the other.
remdesivir
rem desivir
dream deceiver
come on man you can't be putting stuff like that out there with a straight face ;)
later on he says phenomena rather than phenomenon
How do we all feel now with the lifting of restrictions? I miss elements of the lockdown, but nothing I can't get over. I will say it has given me time to evaluate what I deem important in my life.
Also, has anyone any thoughts around how the cases have not spiked with the lifting? I suppose we are all conditioned to certain habits now or something along those lines.
I was thinking as well; people keep saying to me that they think it will be back in the winter with a bang. Is that actually likely given that the virus has been basically spreading much the same in hot and cold places?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7eFHSSi2nc
Quote from: astfgyl on June 18, 2020, 09:34:11 PM
How do we all feel now with the lifting of restrictions? I miss elements of the lockdown, but nothing I can't get over. I will say it has given me time to evaluate what I deem important in my life.
Also, has anyone any thoughts around how the cases have not spiked with the lifting? I suppose we are all conditioned to certain habits now or something along those lines.
I was thinking as well; people keep saying to me that they think it will be back in the winter with a bang. Is that actually likely given that the virus has been basically spreading much the same in hot and cold places?
For me it's no different as I didn't adjust my lifestyle. Again being intimidating looking has advantages, even though the emotional working out of the pandemic has been gruelling. Mainly working out other people's emotions, but hard work nonetheless.
I missed out on driving away into the countryside as I like to do at the weekends and didn't see much of the family. Other than that, work every day as normal so not a lot changed for me either except I did it to the backdrop of deserted streets and nighttime silence. That is the part I will miss, I think: the silence. Also had the kids constantly under my feet at home and that was probably the toughest element of things.
Working around the public as I do, a lot of them annoyed me with their general fearful ways but that is nothing new anyway.
I do notice the shops have taken a bit of an "aren't you lucky we're letting you in" attitude vs the traditional thankfulness for my custom. I think I will shop online more for the next while until this dies down.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 20, 2020, 06:38:52 PM
I missed out on driving away into the countryside as I like to do at the weekends and didn't see much of the family. Other than that, work every day as normal so not a lot changed for me either except I did it to the backdrop of deserted streets and nighttime silence. That is the part I will miss, I think: the silence. Also had the kids constantly under my feet at home and that was probably the toughest element of things.
Working around the public as I do, a lot of them annoyed me with their general fearful ways but that is nothing new anyway.
I do notice the shops have taken a bit of an "aren't you lucky we're letting you in" attitude vs the traditional thankfulness for my custom. I think I will shop online more for the next while until this dies down.
will we ever know if all this was part of a demonitisation process, and a streamlining of commerce into a kind of vertical economy- us to the cloud to us kinda thing, instead of horizontal to local shops or even those abstract shopping centres of yore, just after the roundabout to nowhere?
as above so below, but with conspicuous consumption.
Worth reading the full article ->
https://www.timesofisrael.com/recovered-covid-19-patients-suffer-major-ongoing-physical-cognitive-problems/
I'd like to know the % of people suffering from post covid issues.
My granny is 96 she tested positive twice. After the first test she was sick for about 3 days and that was it. This was about 6 weeks ago and she seems to be fine now.
Me and the missus were both positive back the end of March. Two months on and we're both absolutely shattered tired the whole time, going out for short stroll around the park for half an hour will leave me out of breath, and back on inhalers for asthma after about 10 years off them. It's fucking shite
Quote from: Trev on June 22, 2020, 05:37:37 PM
Me and the missus were both positive back the end of March. Two months on and we're both absolutely shattered tired the whole time, going out for short stroll around the park for half an hour will leave me out of breath, and back on inhalers for asthma after about 10 years off them. It's fucking shite
That's rough man. Hopefully you get it worked out of your system soon enough. I can't 100% vouch for what there is to it, but maybe you could find ways of upping your vitamin D production/intake, especially if the condition itself is contributing to limited sunlight exposure. In any case, as long as you don't OD on supplements, it has a very limited capacity for harm. Is it something that was mentioned during your treatment, out of curiosity?
Sorry to hear that Trev, nasty business. Jesus it's nearly 3 months later now and all. Hope ye're improving slowly but surely anyway.
Any idea if it stemmed from a cluster /known cases, or was it community transmitted? Irrelevant really when you're back on inhalers etc but just curious. I know of 2 people who died after picking it up from a buddy who was over in Cheltenham (disaster letting that go ahead, compounded by people deciding for themselves to go anyway).
Quote from: Snare on June 22, 2020, 07:19:14 PM
Sorry to hear that Trev, nasty business. Jesus it's nearly 3 months later now and all. Hope ye're improving slowly but surely anyway.
Any idea if it stemmed from a cluster /known cases, or was it community transmitted? Irrelevant really when you're back on inhalers etc but just curious. I know of 2 people who died after picking it up from a buddy who was over in Cheltenham (disaster letting that go ahead, compounded by people deciding for themselves to go anyway).
I'm living just down the road from where the first case was in the school in Glasnevin so I reckon there's a good chance it was community, but my missus is an ICU nurse so theres a chance it might have been picked up there, no way to know for certain
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 22, 2020, 06:01:13 PM
That's rough man. Hopefully you get it worked out of your system soon enough. I can't 100% vouch for what there is to it, but maybe you could find ways of upping your vitamin D production/intake, especially if the condition itself is contributing to limited sunlight exposure. In any case, as long as you don't OD on supplements, it has a very limited capacity for harm. Is it something that was mentioned during your treatment, out of curiosity?
The treatment was basically to stay home, isolate and if it gets really bad go the hospital. Never reached that point but there were one or two days I'd really considered it. My GP rang me for a follow up a few weeks ago and they said they'd quite a few cases of post viral fatigue, so I guess it's just whatever way some people's bodies deal with it?
Still, seems to be something that goes away on its own after a while, just a case of lashing in multivitamins, a nice strong coffee or three to get through the day and waiting it out. Getting through a fair amount of shite on Netflix though! 😂
That sounds like no fun man. Hopefully you will pick back up soon and all the best with that to yourself and the missus. It's crazy the range of effects this thing has, all the way from asymptomatic right through to fatal, with everything in between.
There must be something genetic that triggers certain effects or something like that, maybe blood type or something but surely a lot of those possibilities have been already well researched but it will certainly be interesting to see if the connection between severity and whatever it is that triggers it at different levels or what is lacking in those who suffer more if it comes to light.
QuoteProfessor Ed Bullmore, a neuroscientist at Cambridge University, told The Independent there was enough evidence now to describe the Sars-CoV-2 virus as causing a "neurotoxic illness", adding that it was possible the psychiatric effects could last beyond a decade. He said research had shown that a number of Covid-19 patients experienced a "kind of altered mental state", adding that this included "cases of psychosis mood disorder and cognitive impairment".
"We don't know necessarily the causes of that neurotoxicity," he said. "It could be that the virus infects the brain; it could be that the immune response to the virus damages the brain, or it could be the blood supply to the brain. All those mechanisms look plausible at the moment.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-long-term-health-disease-covid-19-lungs-heart-brain-a9546671.html
Quote
"The impact of being ventilated and on an ICU bed for weeks at a time is profound for your cognitive ability, and physical and mental wellbeing," she added. "You'd hope that people can recover but it won't be spontaneous and it'll need to be supported."
But capacity to support these patients remains a concern among rehabilitation experts.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19
This looks far worse than a smokers lung...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lung-from-covid-19-patient/
Quote from: The Butcher on June 23, 2020, 12:23:46 PM
QuoteProfessor Ed Bullmore, a neuroscientist at Cambridge University, told The Independent there was enough evidence now to describe the Sars-CoV-2 virus as causing a "neurotoxic illness", adding that it was possible the psychiatric effects could last beyond a decade. He said research had shown that a number of Covid-19 patients experienced a "kind of altered mental state", adding that this included "cases of psychosis mood disorder and cognitive impairment".
"We don't know necessarily the causes of that neurotoxicity," he said. "It could be that the virus infects the brain; it could be that the immune response to the virus damages the brain, or it could be the blood supply to the brain. All those mechanisms look plausible at the moment.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-long-term-health-disease-covid-19-lungs-heart-brain-a9546671.html
Quote
"The impact of being ventilated and on an ICU bed for weeks at a time is profound for your cognitive ability, and physical and mental wellbeing," she added. "You'd hope that people can recover but it won't be spontaneous and it'll need to be supported."
But capacity to support these patients remains a concern among rehabilitation experts.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19
Went to Ed Bullmore's Twitter page to see if he'd been saying anything else interesting in the last while, and it seems that most of what is being said relates to critical cases of COVID-19. Have a look through these two more detailed texts he linked to around the same time as that Independent interview:
https://medium.com/@neuroblue/will-recovered-covid19-patients-show-permanent-neurological-symptoms-e69acaa80d9
https://blogs.bmj.com/jnnp/2020/05/01/the-neurology-and-neuropsychiatry-of-covid-19/
Looking at them, it seems there is an awful lot of mitigation missing from the claims of the section you quoted from the Independent. The potential for negative cognitive effects from intensive care and ventilation machines, on the other hand, has been well studied and documented for years.
The INMO are reporting that 4,800 medical staff are still sick. That's 60% of medical personnel who have been infected, so your mrs isn't on her own Trev. 20% have recovered, but they don't know about the status of the remaining 20%. That's fairly staggering either way.
Quote from: Trev on June 22, 2020, 05:37:37 PM
Me and the missus were both positive back the end of March. Two months on and we're both absolutely shattered tired the whole time, going out for short stroll around the park for half an hour will leave me out of breath, and back on inhalers for asthma after about 10 years off them. It's fucking shite
That sucks balls. My Dad had it a while ago and is still recovering. It's less of a flu and more like pneumonia. Hope ye feel better soon.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 22, 2020, 09:18:05 PM
That sounds like no fun man. Hopefully you will pick back up soon and all the best with that to yourself and the missus. It's crazy the range of effects this thing has, all the way from asymptomatic right through to fatal, with everything in between.
There must be something genetic that triggers certain effects or something like that, maybe blood type or something but surely a lot of those possibilities have been already well researched but it will certainly be interesting to see if the connection between severity and whatever it is that triggers it at different levels or what is lacking in those who suffer more if it comes to light.
https://youtu.be/433b5RJ9BME
Fuck sake, they'd nearly make me want to wear a mask. I actually have to wear one fairly often and they feel fucking horrible and stuffy and if it becomes mandatory here for going into a shop I'll just spend less time in the shop and be done with it.
The science behind it is fairly thin as well, or difficult to prove a lot of the time at the very least.
I do think though that if we are to see a resurgence here, a lot more people will wear them in crowded situations and I think a lot of the reason for the generally poor uptake around where I am is that nobody knows anyone who had covid in this town so the general feeling is that they are doing it for nothing and I can understand that. The jury is out on it for me so far. There isn't a lot of concrete evidence that they work but there isn't evidence to say they are harming either.
Jaysus some people. Yer one in the red shirt on about freedom, yet she's going to round up people in a citizen's arrest of legislators. I can see why Benton took such a shine to Christians in Florida. FUCK YOUR GOD!
And Florida has near 10,000 new cases today alone. Where's your precious god now? Happy that it's His will I suppose.
And why are people throughout the world wearing chin warmers instead of mouth & nose coverage?? Or covering just the mouth and leaving the nose fully exposed?? The mind boggles...
Quote from: Snare on June 28, 2020, 01:10:26 AM
Or covering just the mouth and leaving the nose fully exposed?? The mind boggles...
Well I'd imagine that you'd be more likely to spread the infection via spit flying a few feet out of your mouth when you speak, as opposed to via snot dripping from your nose. But yeah if you're gonna wear a mask might as well wear it properly.
And fuck their god :abbath:
Sorry you seem to be missing my point. They're face masks, not chin/gill orientated or mouth masks. It's a two way system, so not covering their nose means they can inhale someone else's particles very easily. And sneezing goes a long way, as they could well do themselves.
Anyway, just showed the video to my mrs., her facial reactions to the nut jobs was hilarious 😂 MAPA - Make America Pagan Again! Too many Religious nut jobs.
We're not getting out of this until everyone gets it. Out shopping this morning and had one dumb cunt reaching across me so close he could have licked my belly button. Never mind two metres, two fucking inches would be a good start. The average human is too fucking thick for this virus to be contained. Let the cull happen, it's fucking time >:(
The simple reason for the nose out of the mask is because they are horrible to wear and feel like being a stuffy attic wearing them. But at the same time, some people want to try do the right thing or at the very least, fit in and not be the bollix doing the wrong thing.
Regarding the cull, I flit by the hour between thinking "ah we'll be grand sure look at everyone trying to do the right thing", and then "Howya Complete Stranger, I can feel your fucking breath what the fuck, have you been living under a fucking rock for 3 months?"
Isn't an awful shame to think that we could actually contain this in our own country, like just keep up the good work until it's gone but no matter what we do it is sure to come back from somewhere else even if we were good enough and all did what we were told. Imagine it, pubs open no physical distance requirements, gigs of all sizes, everyone back to work no worries and so on. But the reality is that the airlines and some others will say they can't stay going because of the quarantine requirement and it will be eased up for it. Also if everyone who wanted to go away foreign for one week had to take 3 weeks off work, we would have very little of the citizens opting to head anywhere and thus not bringing it back with them. Spending our coin in our own country - as raining as that might be - might have a beneficial effect on the economy as well. Not sure about that last point but if we could all go nowhere we'd surely be driven to have more shit going on in the country.
Ah it's all speculation anyway so fuck it, but I do wonder if all countries shut down travel until it was gone entirely in each one and no case for 6 months later then go back at it full pelt, would that solve it? Use the international funds and whatever to prop the likes of the airlines and international tourism companies instead of paying everyone to be shut down or whatever. Am I missing something or does that sound like it would work?
Quote from: astfgyl on June 28, 2020, 11:31:09 PM
The simple reason for the nose out of the mask is because they are horrible to wear and feel like being a stuffy attic wearing them. But at the same time, some people want to try do the right thing or at the very least, fit in and not be the bollix doing the wrong thing.
Regarding the cull, I flit by the hour between thinking "ah we'll be grand sure look at everyone trying to do the right thing", and then "Howya Complete Stranger, I can feel your fucking breath what the fuck, have you been living under a fucking rock for 3 months?"
Isn't an awful shame to think that we could actually contain this in our own country, like just keep up the good work until it's gone but no matter what we do it is sure to come back from somewhere else even if we were good enough and all did what we were told. Imagine it, pubs open no physical distance requirements, gigs of all sizes, everyone back to work no worries and so on. But the reality is that the airlines and some others will say they can't stay going because of the quarantine requirement and it will be eased up for it. Also if everyone who wanted to go away foreign for one week had to take 3 weeks off work, we would have very little of the citizens opting to head anywhere and thus not bringing it back with them. Spending our coin in our own country - as raining as that might be - might have a beneficial effect on the economy as well. Not sure about that last point but if we could all go nowhere we'd surely be driven to have more shit going on in the country.
Ah it's all speculation anyway so fuck it, but I do wonder if all countries shut down travel until it was gone entirely in each one and no case for 6 months later then go back at it full pelt, would that solve it? Use the international funds and whatever to prop the likes of the airlines and international tourism companies instead of paying everyone to be shut down or whatever. Am I missing something or does that sound like it would work?
is it still a cull if the deaths are misnamed, and ultimately low in number, and psychosomatic?
who are the tares in this situation?
Quote from: Snare on June 28, 2020, 07:55:03 PM
Sorry you seem to be missing my point. They're face masks, not chin/gill orientated or mouth masks. It's a two way system, so not covering their nose means they can inhale someone else's particles very easily. And sneezing goes a long way, as they could well do themselves.
Anyway, just showed the video to my mrs., her facial reactions to the nut jobs was hilarious 😂 MAPA - Make America Pagan Again! Too many Religious nut jobs.
https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1277211131430535168/photo/1
Jaysus, i stand corrected, not for chin, mouth or nose afterall :-[
https://youtu.be/J1njnQhb5Qg
I enjoyed that. Might watch a few more of his after I get to the end of the chomsky one I've been wading through slowly.
It remains to be seen how this will play out but I'm reminded of a comment from one of my co workers at the beginning of the lockdown: She said "I'm looking forward to watching this on reeling in the years and wondering what the fuck we were all thinking" Again, it remains to be seen.
Just looking at the preview screenshot there, West Nile Virus has been in the news again quite recently. Afaik it has essentially zero human to human transmission though, so quarantine wouldn't at all be an effective measure against it. Going on that one example hypothetical would lead one to believe whoever made the video is working off lots more erroneous notions and deductions.
The media obviously exaggerates everything and governments will almost always attempt to move opportunistically towards their global goals in time of crisis, but going from that to a total reality disconnect summed up in "the state and its media shills invent everything", especially today when it's easier than ever to access non-mediatized data, is just the same kind of facile reasoning we've all seen rolled out over and over. It certainly doesn't represent any "new" way of thinking...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy8uLjRHPM
Edit: That's not even the video I meant to post, but since we're so detached as it is, might as well just leave it.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 04:20:56 PM
I enjoyed that. Might watch a few more of his after I get to the end of the chomsky one I've been wading through slowly.
It remains to be seen how this will play out but I'm reminded of a comment from one of my co workers at the beginning of the lockdown: She said "I'm looking forward to watching this on reeling in the years and wondering what the fuck we were all thinking" Again, it remains to be seen.
it was gutwrenching enough when the 00s started appearing on the compilation shows, but when reeling in the years starts covering the 2020s, fuck me it'll be so disorienting, probably rté will have a cyberware holo-app by then, or maybe we can use virtual cash to buy microwave-beamed implantable memories, so you've already watched it before you've seen it, so you don't have to watch things anymore.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 02, 2020, 04:44:50 PM
Just looking at the preview screenshot there, West Nile Virus has been in the news again quite recently. Afaik it has essentially zero human to human transmission though, so quarantine wouldn't at all be an effective measure against it. Going on that one example hypothetical would lead one to believe whoever made the video is working off lots more erroneous notions and deductions.
That may indeed be the case. I also can't tell you one way or the other as I've only seen one of the videos. He doesn't seem to be making any suggestions that are too wild or anything beyond pointing out that all of these things which were sensationalised by the media at the time didn't really come to pass as foretold, and it was an enjoyable enough listen without getting extremely deep into any one of the things he mentions.
I wouldn't buy entirely into any one angle on anything anyway because there are so many ways of looking at something and sections of the news media are always going to try sensationalise everything as much as possible, because that is what keeps the eyes on the ads and the money stays flowing. Usually the facts of anything don't become apparent until much much later after anything happens anyway, and though the media does push things a lot I honestly think most of it is simply to make money (although I wouldn't entirely rule out things like deliberate misinformation spread by governments or private interests at times either).
Quote from: mugz on July 02, 2020, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 04:20:56 PM
I enjoyed that. Might watch a few more of his after I get to the end of the chomsky one I've been wading through slowly.
It remains to be seen how this will play out but I'm reminded of a comment from one of my co workers at the beginning of the lockdown: She said "I'm looking forward to watching this on reeling in the years and wondering what the fuck we were all thinking" Again, it remains to be seen.
it was gutwrenching enough when the 00s started appearing on the compilation shows, but when reeling in the years starts covering the 2020s, fuck me it'll be so disorienting, probably rté will have a cyberware holo-app by then, or maybe we can use virtual cash to buy microwave-beamed implantable memories, so you've already watched it before you've seen it, so you don't have to watch things anymore.
Trying to imagine watching all of this on reeling in the years is actually pretty disconcerting now you mention it
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
Quote from: mugz on July 02, 2020, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 04:20:56 PM
I enjoyed that. Might watch a few more of his after I get to the end of the chomsky one I've been wading through slowly.
It remains to be seen how this will play out but I'm reminded of a comment from one of my co workers at the beginning of the lockdown: She said "I'm looking forward to watching this on reeling in the years and wondering what the fuck we were all thinking" Again, it remains to be seen.
it was gutwrenching enough when the 00s started appearing on the compilation shows, but when reeling in the years starts covering the 2020s, fuck me it'll be so disorienting, probably rté will have a cyberware holo-app by then, or maybe we can use virtual cash to buy microwave-beamed implantable memories, so you've already watched it before you've seen it, so you don't have to watch things anymore.
Trying to imagine watching all of this on reeling in the years is actually pretty disconcerting now you mention it
"do u remember back in 2020 when they didn't have cameras in 16k 200 fps refresh oh my god it looks ancient!"
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 09:09:20 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 02, 2020, 04:44:50 PM
Just looking at the preview screenshot there, West Nile Virus has been in the news again quite recently. Afaik it has essentially zero human to human transmission though, so quarantine wouldn't at all be an effective measure against it. Going on that one example hypothetical would lead one to believe whoever made the video is working off lots more erroneous notions and deductions.
That may indeed be the case. I also can't tell you one way or the other as I've only seen one of the videos. He doesn't seem to be making any suggestions that are too wild or anything beyond pointing out that all of these things which were sensationalised by the media at the time didn't really come to pass as foretold, and it was an enjoyable enough listen without getting extremely deep into any one of the things he mentions.
I wouldn't buy entirely into any one angle on anything anyway because there are so many ways of looking at something and sections of the news media are always going to try sensationalise everything as much as possible, because that is what keeps the eyes on the ads and the money stays flowing. Usually the facts of anything don't become apparent until much much later after anything happens anyway, and though the media does push things a lot I honestly think most of it is simply to make money (although I wouldn't entirely rule out things like deliberate misinformation spread by governments or private interests at times either).
Matt's stuff is still paid by the video gatekeeping, but it's as close as you can get to how things are without going to very weird places.
I mean in 2008 I liked Adam Curtis, but it ain't 08 no more
Whereas Loose Change was made in 2005. What's your point?
I've never watched Loose Change but I do remember hearing about it. I did a quick google there and it seems to be about the weirdness of the 9/11 thing. Grand so, I thought it was weird at the time anyway but fuck getting some other lad to confirm that for me, I can look at things for myself and think about them all by myself as well without being led. All the arguing aside, and this is a question for BSC, what do you make of the untouched building collapsing, demolition style? Building 7 if I remember correctly. But anyway you are usually pretty tasty at debunking ideas and I'm honestly interested to hear what you make of that whole thing, as a seemingly analytical type.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 10:13:04 PM
I've never watched Loose Change but I do remember hearing about it. I did a quick google there and it seems to be about the weirdness of the 9/11 thing. Grand so, I thought it was weird at the time anyway but fuck getting some other lad to confirm that for me, I can look at things for myself and think about them all by myself as well without being led. All the arguing aside, and this is a question for BSC, what do you make of the untouched building collapsing, demolition style? Building 7 if I remember correctly. But anyway you are usually pretty tasty at debunking ideas and I'm honestly interested to hear what you make of that whole thing, as a seemingly analytical type.
collapsing masonry
I never paid too much attention to the 9/11 conspiracy theories and I'm not going to start now. The factually verifiable actions of the US in the lead up and fall out quite dwarf its importance. My point was more that the guy who made the above video doesn't put anything more advanced than the Loose Change style rhetoric on the table; everything in the news is fake. I hope Adam Curtis is taking notes, as this is surely the kind of hyper-modern, cutting-edge new thinking that will lift him out of the 00s!
I'm honestly not talking about conspiracy theories and I have always looked at the rational explanations around them. The only thing I have never been able to get my head around though is the undamaged building that collapsed demolition style at the same time as the WTCs got done. I was honestly looking forward to hearing your thoughts around that one but sure ah well.. I just look at things and think about them is all and you seem like the kind of chap who would have a way to debunk any of the thoughts I had around that and so that might have a way of making me see it from another angle was all.
I don't know who Adam Curtis is without google either, being truthful about my lack of research and education.
Edit: You could be right about that video, but it's entertaining in the presentation either way
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
I'm honestly not talking about conspiracy theories and I have always looked at the rational explanations around them. The only thing I have never been able to get my head around though is the undamaged building that collapsed demolition style at the same time as the WTCs got done. I was honestly looking forward to hearing your thoughts around that one but sure ah well.. I just look at things and think about them is all and you seem like the kind of chap who would have a way to debunk any of the thoughts I had around that and so that might have a way of making me see it from another angle was all.
I don't know who Adam Curtis is without google either, being truthful about my lack of research and education.
Edit: You could be right about that video, but it's entertaining in the presentation either way
it depends how deep you want to go with the 911 stuff, and whether you're feigning it all for nefarious reasons ::) there's a lot going on with it, but the fact it's deliberately full of loose threads is the main thing, just a mind virus, and occupier ('to occupy' has a range of meanings) of thoughts, controller of narratives for 20 years now, knock em down to build em up. after that you get into much weirder territory, but it depends how valuable you find it to consider, reject, or accept things about how it all works. I find it valuable because I hate more or less everything about life, and indeed a lot of conspiracy stuff is just fodder for depressed outsiders...but within that they will throw out a lot of great information.
they have adam curtis for people who think they're cool, and they have other stuff for people who know they're not cool. in ny case you can find a few fragments of useful stuff, but it's just gatekeeping.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2020, 11:58:04 PM
I don't know who Adam Curtis is without google either, being truthful about my lack of research and education.
Dude, were you hiding under a rock in *checks pop culture almanac for appropriate year to mention in order to self-bestow intellectual street cred* 2007??
Just as an aside/entertaining recommendation: Adam Curtis' work is a great entry point if you want to get a feel for potential approaches to teasing out global historico-politico-psychological dynamics. All of his BBC documentary trilogies/quadrilogies are extremely captivating and watchable, and still relevant today at the very least in the sense that they were absolutely formative for the current left's vision of the State, both at home and abroad, and of the media (in the broad sense). He wears his leanings on his sleeve, but take or leave his message, the approach can be learnt from. And you haven't missed any kind of boat either. Starting to get the impression mugz could have been interupting discussions in the 60s with, "Orwell? Uh... I was into Orwell in 1950, but it ain't 1950 anymore!" With the right outlook, you can learn from anything and at any point in time; everything contains its part of 'untimeliness' just waiting to be folded out.
I watched HyperNormalisation and The Century of the Self so far apart I never realised they were by the same lad, I must check out more of his stuff so. Cheers, good shout.
On the 9/11 stuff, the Dancing Israelis rabbit hole piqued my interest a while back, but it's been so long I'm not sure what kind of information is out there about it now.
As soon as you mentioned BBC documentary trilogy my ears pricked up. On the subject of learning from things, I personally feel that almost anything can be learned from in one way or another. I'd be a bit of a Johnny 5 as in I just like the Input and I'd usually decide what I ultimately think of something at a much later point, after seeing the counter argument to it. For example, whenever I see something shady regarding 9/11, I'd go and look at something like Popular Mechanics' version of events, and then see if there is anything else to counter that as well, instead of just buzzing off the first thing I saw. Or when I wanted to believe that the covid death toll was being wildly exaggerated here, I did my own check on rip.ie to see if I could counter myself, and indeed I did. For me it's never really about being right as such, just finding out more all the time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZYWzkQhBpo
Quote from: mugz on July 03, 2020, 10:25:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZYWzkQhBpo
I watched that earlier, and I can get on board with the likes of the Pentagon stuff, but then he starts about other stuff that I just can't get into at all like glitches in the matrix and the like and inter-dimensional entities and it's those type associations and the whole in for the penny in for the pound type mentality of "truthers" that I find takes from the actual good stuff they have to say. This stuff could actually get its' own thread anyway and leave this one for the covid but I'd certainly join the discussion in its' own rightful place on the board.
Steering this back on topic, anyone gotten out for a pint yet? Going for dinner with my wife tomorrow night myself and as much as I didn't miss most things, I'm looking forward to it, getting out of the house in the night.
different atmosphere out there; another notch clicked past on the wheel of time, but by the same measure some of the activities are the same as ever.
that's probably not a helpful answer.
preferred it when the world was empty, but if you like bustle and buzz and people eating and drinking and socialising, there's a lot of that coming back too. I thought I was beginning to miss that stuff, but it's been coming back for a while, and today it was like nah, didn't miss it that much.
I agree there was a lot to be said for the peace and quiet. The drive to work every morning was particularly wonderful, and I really enjoyed the nightly stroll through the empty town. If I could have reconciled it all to my inner disquiet at the time I would have enjoyed it a lot more. I'm actually looking forward to going for dinner all the same and I honestly thought I wasn't missing the nightlife at all until I booked it.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 04, 2020, 09:59:05 PM
I agree there was a lot to be said for the peace and quiet. The drive to work every morning was particularly wonderful, and I really enjoyed the nightly stroll through the empty town. If I could have reconciled it all to my inner disquiet at the time I would have enjoyed it a lot more. I'm actually looking forward to going for dinner all the same and I honestly thought I wasn't missing the nightlife at all until I booked it.
it's a funny one- that mismatch between inner and outer, between normality and whatever it was we went through. I find the real sense of dislocation is from being surrounded only by people older or younger. Hearing about stuff I don't understand/care about from both sides. Was in a park for 2 hours today, I guess it was heading back to normal, but it's a normal that feels 'wrong' somehow.
It's got an uncanny feel to it. "The new normal" for sure. As Neal Peart wrote, "you can almost see the circuits blowing".
Quote from: Ducky on July 05, 2020, 12:10:02 AM
It's got an uncanny feel to it. "The new normal" for sure. As Neal Peart wrote, "you can almost see the circuits blowing".
It reminded me of an 80s scifi episode where they send 2 scientists into 'the past' in hermetically sealed suits, and while they do nothing but observe a primordial coastal environment for a few moments, when they come back everything is 'off' somehow, but only one of the scientists feels it.
I feel like that guy.
Cases rising back up nicely again. Pity the results made available to the public aren't more specific regarding location, as it might have folks more on their guard in certain places.
Anyone think we will end up with April-like figures again in the near future? Although the announcement yesterday that all cases were in those aged under 44 means we should see a lot less deaths following on from the latest rise in cases.
Ya, less deaths likely in that age range in the immediate term but a fortnight from now the deaths, I reckon, will go up pretty sharply due to transmission from current cases.
I have a feeling you may be right there.
In the beginning and for quite a while after, I was against the idea of locking down, thinking instead that people could be trusted to take the care of their health in their own hands. Now, however, seeing the general carry on since a bit of easing in the restrictions, I'm not so sure about that at all. The town I'm in here has been busier than ever before in the last week and apart from wearing facemasks, which are debatable in their usefulness, it all seems to have been so quickly forgotten.
I'm thinking now should we have stayed going, New Zealand style, and actually gotten rid of it on our own island and kept strict travel restrictions with basically everywhere. It's not as easy as it seems though, given the NI situation. I've heard tell of US tourists flying into Belfast and travelling into the Republic that way, no questions asked. Now I can't 100% confirm the veracity of that claim but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were true.
It will be some shame to see what progress we have made here thrown away, either through weak governmental decisions or general public stupidity or a combination of both. Seeing the things that are working or not working in other countries, and with the Taoiseach saying today they are to continue taking the cautious approach, is there not a case to be made for being more cautious and implementing things like strict quarantining of all arrivals, and actually banning outward holiday travel? Or if someone does insist on travelling for a holiday, add in the cost for their quarantine hotel stay on return. That would make a lot of passengers think twice. Maybe I'm going too far in thinking that but I dunno, I'd hate to go backwards now and fall into the narrative of an inevitable second wave and whatever that would entail.
The reproduction rate had been so low that it was actually difficult to put an accurate rate on it. It's back up around 1 now so things have not gone according to plan. Cases might still be in the 20s this week but they'll defo be higher next week.
I agree. I predict a strong upward trend in cases again very soon as well. Considering we were so close to having it gone from here it's pretty galling.
Should have done everything possible to close borders, in so far as possible. Obviously with Northern Ireland it wasn't going to be easy but surely something could have been done. Think of all the spastics coming back from Santa Ponsa in the next while too. And Ryanair advertising all over the shop. We had done so well but ya, in for a shock again soon I reckon. Well, people with a bit of common sense won't be shocked but there's too many thickos out there.
Constant stream of Limerick and Dublin reg cars heading for the beaches all day yesterday here in West Clare. Clare has had no detected cases for about a month, expect that to change pretty sharpish. It's already glaringly obvious that people can't be trusted once they've a few substantial meals in them.
Maybe one for the pet peeves thread but seeing an auld one walking down the street the other day with a mask down around her chin and coughing her lungs out boggles the mind.
Here's a story I read on rte news website:
"Nearly 1,300 people at the Indonesian Army Officer Candidate School in the country's most populated province of West Java test positive and are quarantined, with 30 initially hospitalised with mild symptoms, an official says.
Of the 1,280 confirmed infections, 991 are cadets and the rest are staff and their family members. Most have no symptoms."
It's a really fucking weird one isn't it, the whole asymptomatic thing. Anyone reckon there is something fucked up with the testing? Like a user on here had it and says he is broke up still, yet most people who get it don't even know they have it other than a test result. So strange wondering what it is that makes the difference
Yeah, but that same user was a "witness" at Sandy Hook, so can we really believe anything they say??
Wrong thread?
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2020, 10:04:32 PM
Wrong thread?
he's making the point they deliberately cultivate ridiculous lapses in the narrative to offer mystery trails for people to spend time and mental energy on, and distract people from their own life stories.
who can we believe? who can we trust? :-\
"In God We Trust"
So putting our trust in fictional characters is the way to go, seemingly
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2020, 10:31:51 PM
"In God We Trust"
So putting our trust in fictional characters is the way to go, seemingly
the deeper you go the worse it gets until you crave the stuff you used to hate
Dunno whether to move this on to the meaning of life or theories thread..
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2020, 10:44:12 PM
Dunno whether to move this on to the meaning of life or theories thread..
life is mysterious. learning these tidbits has made me even more depressed than usual, but somehow empowered; I now have a grab-bag of basic tools to understand the weird parts of life, not that I know much really.
I honestly believe nobody actually knows anything
They would want to make an announcement on what is happening with the pubs on Monday. I would be of the persuasion that they shouldn't open properly until at least after the August Bank Holiday weekend but if they made a decision we could at least start planning a different form of entertainment then.
We could open them up with little signs outside: "No Yanks, No Brits, No Brazilians"
Jokes aside, I wonder how long before anything in the way of gigs goes ahead again
Quote from: astfgyl on July 14, 2020, 03:05:26 PM
We could open them up with little signs outside: "No Yanks, No Brits, No Brazilians"
Jokes aside, I wonder how long before anything in the way of gigs goes ahead again
a century ago everyone was frightened of the black and tans, now the entire country is swarmed with blacks and tans and various eastern europeans, and the only Irish people breeding are people you'd prefer not to breed so much.
the real joke is when the NO IRISH signs start appearing in Ireland. If it wasn't a tragedy it'd be quite amusing.
but it's not to give you a hard time or anything, you seem quite a nice guy, it's just a few years ago the 'we' in Ireland stopped including
you.
it's all such a joke; I wonder what today's newspaper headlines will say? maybe there's a surprise entry this week in 'the charts'....
1920-2020, if it's a reset, can we pull the plug instead?
what does lewis hamilton think about what kerry king thinks about this?
is kerry king even still alive?
Jumpers for goalposts
Quote from: mugz on July 14, 2020, 04:12:35 PM
but it's not to give you a hard time or anything, you seem quite a nice guy, it's just a few years ago the 'we' in Ireland stopped including you.
Oh I didn't mean Ireland in general, we have an autonomous zone going down here in Tipp. Well it's just meself so far..
Quote from: astfgyl on July 14, 2020, 08:17:57 PM
Quote from: mugz on July 14, 2020, 04:12:35 PM
but it's not to give you a hard time or anything, you seem quite a nice guy, it's just a few years ago the 'we' in Ireland stopped including you.
Oh I didn't mean Ireland in general, we have an autonomous zone going down here in Tipp. Well it's just meself so far..
I never thought I'd miss the 'old' Ireland or find country enclaves tempting, but as far as my travels go, there's basically nothing of value on the east coast anymore, dublin, wicklow, wexford all fucked, not sure about carlow or kildare. galway seems to be fucked too, though I haven't been there for a few months.
Some part of me wonders if anyone else will look around them and ask if this is the Ireland anyone actually wants? It's just a wasteland of coffee shops, empty office buildings, prison-cell apartments.
If anyone still listens to mid period Katatonia- a lot of their songs were about urban isolation and fleeting moments of terror in the midst of boredom or despair. Viva Emptiness could be completely about modern Dublin.
After 38 years of not liking Ireland, my 39th year has been overwhelmed with a kind of patriotism, or at the least a sense that something has been violated in the last 4 years or so, a line crossed.
Quote from: mugz on July 14, 2020, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 14, 2020, 03:05:26 PM
We could open them up with little signs outside: "No Yanks, No Brits, No Brazilians"
Jokes aside, I wonder how long before anything in the way of gigs goes ahead again
a century ago everyone was frightened of the black and tans, now the entire country is swarmed with blacks and tans and various eastern europeans, and the only Irish people breeding are people you'd prefer not to breed so much.
the real joke is when the NO IRISH signs start appearing in Ireland. If it wasn't a tragedy it'd be quite amusing.
but it's not to give you a hard time or anything, you seem quite a nice guy, it's just a few years ago the 'we' in Ireland stopped including you.
it's all such a joke; I wonder what today's newspaper headlines will say? maybe there's a surprise entry this week in 'the charts'....
1920-2020, if it's a reset, can we pull the plug instead?
what does lewis hamilton think about what kerry king thinks about this?
is kerry king even still alive?
What the fuck did I just read??
I can get on board with a lot of that. The only thing about that feeling is that the young lads of now will have it in 2040 only they will be thinking of those lazy summer evenings spent in Costa on their mobile phones, so it's nothing new to feel like the relative old days were way better. Nostalgia is basically feeling like we wished we were young again more than things being actually better. We aren't teenagers so we can't feel like they do about the now, and even if we did the same things as we did when we were of that age, it wouldn't feel the same now. No matter who you are, you will find someone from the previous generation extolling the virtues of their day.
Covid-19, on the other hand, is a right pain in the hole
Quote from: astfgyl on July 14, 2020, 10:36:41 PM
I can get on board with a lot of that. The only thing about that feeling is that the young lads of now will have it in 2040 only they will be thinking of those lazy summer evenings spent in Costa on their mobile phones, so it's nothing new to feel like the relative old days were way better. Nostalgia is basically feeling like we wished we were young again more than things being actually better. We aren't teenagers so we can't feel like they do about the now, and even if we did the same things as we did when we were of that age, it wouldn't feel the same now. No matter who you are, you will find someone from the previous generation extolling the virtues of their day.
Covid-19, on the other hand, is a right pain in the hole
I'd argue that the charade of youth vs false memory is somewhat overstated. I know I was complaining about everything in the 80s 90s and 00s too, but those time periods didn't have the same mixture of futility and eerieness and
scale ... You could easily see what the general direction was in those decades, even if it was clear that 90% of it was completely misguided.
This time period seems to be completely oriented to something vast, but utterly nebulous.
The Pandemic is merely a conceptual vehicle to allow an accelerated period of change; I'd argue in my 4 decades there hasn't been such a
condensed alteration of 'reality'.... To me this is kind of an 'invasion' or an insult, beyond the sense of dismay you generally get from getting older.
https://www.minervanett.no/angus-dalgleish-birger-sorensen-coronavirus/the-evidence-which-suggests-that-this-is-no-naturally-evolved-virus/362529
Was reading this last night. I'm sure the opposing view is there somewhere as well but it seems reasonable enough bar a couple of leaps of faith here and there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cTDGqcUpA
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Now that's how you make a video Republicans can understand!
Just as well he wasn't holding it in his left hand though, or it would have been fake news :laugh:
Holy Shit what a fucking moron. His next video will probably be on the pro's of drinking bleach :laugh:
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 12:45:58 PM
Holy Shit what a fucking moron. His next video will probably be on the pro's of drinking bleach :laugh:
Eh, wut?
Maybe I have been fortunate that I haven't been in an environment where that would be a accurate test, but it looks ridiculous, (or have I missed the point? Possibly).
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 02:15:46 PM
Maybe I have been fortunate that I haven't been in an environment where that would be a accurate test, but it looks ridiculous, (or have I missed the point? Possibly).
Well, it very clearly shows that even a simple surgical mask will block micro-droplets expelled at force even at extremely close range, thereby protecting anyone who may otherwise have been in range to be struck by them. That was the point, I don't know whether you missed it or not.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 30, 2020, 02:28:53 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 02:15:46 PM
Maybe I have been fortunate that I haven't been in an environment where that would be a accurate test, but it looks ridiculous, (or have I missed the point? Possibly).
Well, it very clearly shows that even a simple surgical mask will block micro-droplets expelled at force even at extremely close range, thereby protecting anyone who may otherwise have been in range to be struck by them. That was the point, I don't know whether you missed it or not.
Oh it was definitely a swing and a miss. Brilliant video by that buck.
Yeah I think I was a Dickhead there and missed the actual point.
85 cases reported today. Are we about to kick off again?
Sounds like we already have. Bear in mind that the numbers as reported are at least 10 days old
France also reported the highest figures since May today.
Does this mean then that nothing short of lockdown will actually have any effect or is it just that people are lackadaisical now after the few months? Maybe something to do with tourist season?
And yeah if these figures are over a week old I dread to see where we will be at in another week's time
It means the spas going around not social distancing and not wearing masks in public will need to give it a go or there will have to be a return to lockdown. Pretending it doesn't exist hasn't worked. Back to Plan A.
Yeah I've given out about a lot of the measures all the way through this so far, but still actually begrudgingly adhered to them in the hope of it working. I have to say though, I meet a lot of people in the course of a day and the vast majority of them are taking the advice, to the extent that those who are not stick out like a sore thumb, so maybe if what we are seeing now with the rise in cases is a week or two old, the effect of compliance will kick back in in another week or so. Well hopefully anyway..
On the Monday when masks in shops became mandatory, the vast majority of people I saw in shops had them on, both staff and customers. Fast forward a week and it's down to about a quarter at best. The can't-be-arsed and don't-believe brigades out in full.
And it's these stupid cunts that will cause a worse second wave.
46 new cases on a Sunday really doesn't bode well for the coming week.
On the plus side I know of someone who was tested at 9 o' clock one evening and had results at 9 the following morning so the testing times are right up there and the hope is that they are being caught quickly. Another thing is that a lot of these new cases are being picked up through the contact tracing setup so that seems fairly robust as well.
Is like 50 cases a day a sustainable amount if it was to sit around there? Strangely enough none of the latest cases seem to be getting hospitalised with it either. I still often wonder will this just end up being let run its' course after several failed attempts at containment. In a regular setting I mean, of course nursing homes and the like will have to be a lot more cautious but the current approach still seems somewhat unsustainable in the long term when I think about it
That's good that things are getting caught quicker. What I think is stupid is that it's on the HSE's website for people to stay in Ireland for 2020 and yet people are still allowed to fly off to other countries. There is the "Green List" of where we're told it's safe to fly to, Spain isn't on it but yet people are going there, I know of a guy who went there last week. There just seems to be a lot of contradiction with it.
Yeah a lot of that is pure shit, telling everyone to go nowhere but also publishing a green list and still allowing outward flights to riskier countries. Also allowing tourists in (although not a lot of them are coming from what I hear and see) from anywhere at all regardless of the situation in their respective home countries.
I tend to agree with the notion that it will run its course after a few containments. It sounds fucked, but the whole thing is fucked anyway. We're going to throw our hands up and get sick of this thing before it gets sick of us. It's human nature. Lockdown fatigue will kick in, the everyman will start revolting as much as the tin foil plebs, and we'll all quietly get on with things whilst trying to protect the vulnerable.
The lack of hospitalization with these new cases is running concurrent with the fact that the recent spikes have been amongst the under 50s. That's obviously an encouraging sign that increasingly confirms that this thing kicking your ass is the exception and not the rule.
Dozy Bastards: https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0802/1157007-clare-covid-warning/
Yes that's probably easy to say not being a parent, but parents should be keeping more watch over them, it's not good if they get it off their friends and bring it back to the house. Put a tracker on their phone. There are the relevant apps out there, one's that go into detail so the parents can get a good idea.
That could be deemed intrusive, but until someone is 18, as you know, legally they are still the parents responsibility.
It's funny to see how with the rises in cases in the midlands that the talk is of localised lockdowns and "not ruling anything out", yet when Dublin and Cork were riddled with cases and fuck all anywhere else, the localised solution was dismissed out of hand.
Money talks as usual.
I agree it is shit.... but I suppose, hindsight and all that.... 5 months ago we thought it was going to be a lot worse... or so we were told.
38 additional cases today. Apart from the specific outbreaks mentioned, the rate seems to be generally fairly stable the last couple of weeks. I still think all of this shit won't actually work in the long run unless the Zero Covid Island suggestion from the scientific community is aggressively pursued sometime very soon. Even then, the likelihood is that it won't work anyway. Fun times ahead
Quote from: astfgyl on August 07, 2020, 06:28:07 PM
38 additional cases today. Apart from the specific outbreaks mentioned, the rate seems to be generally fairly stable the last couple of weeks. I still think all of this shit won't actually work in the long run unless the Zero Covid Island suggestion from the scientific community is aggressively pursued sometime very soon. Even then, the likelihood is that it won't work anyway. Fun times ahead
there's at least 98 cases reported in Ireland today: 38 women though! 68 of the cases in Offaly, Laois and Kildare so those clusters are getting worse and lock-downs are in place from midnight there.
60 of those 98 were late additions to yesterday's tally, so I went with the 38 freshly discovered ones. Thank god I'm not in Laois or Offaly. Nothing to do with the lockdown or anything, just thank god in general
The BIFFOs are on your, evidentially.
The Ex Offaly hurler Brian Carroll was a boarder at my school (St Kierans in Kilkenny) and he would call himself Biffo, even write it on his copy books and everything. I had always thought it was an insult. He wasn't a normal lad though, you can hear it when he commentates on 2FM for the hurling.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 07, 2020, 03:34:14 PM
It's funny to see how with the rises in cases in the midlands that the talk is of localised lockdowns and "not ruling anything out", yet when Dublin and Cork were riddled with cases and fuck all anywhere else, the localised solution was dismissed out of hand.
Money talks as usual.
Was that not when there was a nationwide lockdown anyway? I'd imagine localised lockdown was not an option at that stage because the testing wasn't up to scratch so they'd no idea (only in retrospect) what was really going on with cases. I know after that, Cork has fairly consistently had some of the lowest rates of transmission.
Just crossed the border into France (I'm in a village in the Pyrenees) and hardly anyone is wearing a mask. What's the story Chris?
Les grenouilles sont cons!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 08, 2020, 07:36:00 AM
The Ex Offaly hurler Brian Carroll was a boarder at my school (St Kierans in Kilkenny) and he would call himself Biffo, even write it on his copy books and everything. I had always thought it was an insult. He wasn't a normal lad though, you can hear it when he commentates on 2FM for the hurling.
Seeing as it means "big ignorant fucker from Offaly" then it's absolutely an insult... that said, a big ignorant fucker from Offaly not knowing what BIFFO means is a classic BIFFO move (or he was owning his torments or some shit).
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on August 08, 2020, 10:59:51 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 07, 2020, 03:34:14 PM
It's funny to see how with the rises in cases in the midlands that the talk is of localised lockdowns and "not ruling anything out", yet when Dublin and Cork were riddled with cases and fuck all anywhere else, the localised solution was dismissed out of hand.
Money talks as usual.
Was that not when there was a nationwide lockdown anyway? I'd imagine localised lockdown was not an option at that stage because the testing wasn't up to scratch so they'd no idea (only in retrospect) what was really going on with cases. I know after that, Cork has fairly consistently had some of the lowest rates of transmission.
The tests were filtered by location from day one
Quote from: Ducky on August 08, 2020, 03:22:34 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 08, 2020, 07:36:00 AM
The Ex Offaly hurler Brian Carroll was a boarder at my school (St Kierans in Kilkenny) and he would call himself Biffo, even write it on his copy books and everything. I had always thought it was an insult. He wasn't a normal lad though, you can hear it when he commentates on 2FM for the hurling.
They don't really give a shite and think that people who call them biffos are the actual ignorant fuckers
Seeing as it means "big ignorant fucker from Offaly" then it's absolutely an insult... that said, a big ignorant fucker from Offaly not knowing what BIFFO means is a classic BIFFO move (or he was owning his torments or some shit).
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 08, 2020, 01:19:10 PM
Les grenouilles sont cons!
Oauis, vraiment!
Second time in France this year, and the difference in prices is, well, inconvenient! A beer, a bit of scran or a bottle of liquid for the vape is generally double it's Spanish equivalent , even worse in Paris. I don't know how you managed to eat or keep your ginger locks so vibrant looking:) God help you and your kids and your kids kids paying off the mortgage!
New Zealand celebrates 100 days without virus transmission.
Something to think about there.
Now can anyone suggest a good reason to me why we can't be at that stage?
Quote from: astfgyl on August 09, 2020, 06:59:22 PM
New Zealand celebrates 100 days without virus transmission.
Something to think about there.
Now can anyone suggest a good reason to me why we can't be at that stage?
Does it matter?,we're 80 miles from the Uk a country we're heavily dependent on.NZ is thousands of miles out on its own.Pointless comparing,im still of the attitude,look after your own space and get on with life.
Yeah I think it does matter, with the approach taken to dealing with it. The only successful approach so far seems to be the one they have taken in NZ. The only reason I can see for not taking the same approach to quarantining arrivals is that with the NI situation, it leaves too much of a loophole and renders the exercise pointless.
I don't dispute that we are economically tied to the UK for a lot of things, but is movement of people as essential as import/export? Do we really have to let people in and out? Can it not be stopped for a while and we could be doing well here and let other countries sort their own places out? It seems so silly for us all to be taking these measures, both personally and nationally, and constantly leaving the door open for the thing to be reintroduced every time progress is made.
I also get that there is no guarantee that NZ won't have it back at some stage and we need to get our own house in order as well as dealing with international arrivals but there is an approach to that element which works and is there for all to see, so there is a point comparing as I see it.
It's a pain in the hole that five months on we are looking like heading into another lockdown. Feeling the fatigue big time the past couple of weeks. I hadn't felt it weighing on me until then but between that, lack of sleep with the young lad, a gimpy knee and generally getting better looking by the day (It's my cross to bear) I'm half melted with it. I've a couple of weeks booked off work for September and it feels a long way off. What can you do, though. Just gotta play the game.
"Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point." - Bill W.
The prospect of another lockdown is pretty depressing and fuck it we do just have to play the game but fuck fuckitty fucking fuck sake.
Have 2 weeks off work coming after this week and I have been thoroughly looking forward to it for ages. Worked all through the initial lockdown and I'm getting a bit despondent with the possibility of giving my 2 weeks hanging around here in Tipp. Looking at it creeping up and up again it feels like the first run was for nothing in the long run, unless there is some master plan which I'm not aware of.
Yeah it's all gone Pete Tong here and rapidly so. Huge spikes all over the place due to the general population being spastics.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 10, 2020, 11:49:45 AM
Yeah it's all gone Pete Tong here and rapidly so. Huge spikes all over the place due to the general population being spastics.
My missus was home in Cádiz two weeks ago and she was saying that people are still hugging and doing the kiss on each cheek. Oh dear.....
Yeah it's a bit grim. I've been flat out working since the start of lockdown, supposed to be starting college on September 1st to study music (at the age of 34). Was looking forward to hanging out with musicians and jamming but it looks like it's all gonna be online for a while, no gigs. Boring.
Putin claiming Russia has a vaccine. Hmmmmmmm
Quote from: Bogmetaller on August 11, 2020, 11:03:28 AM
Putin claiming Russia has a vaccine. Hmmmmmmm
Trump could confirm that soon.
Oh ye of little faith!
Maybe we should spend less time looking across the Atlantic and get our own shit in order. The Irish health system is a mess at the best of times and yet somehow we were supposedly doing way better than the UK and the US. Well if you don't test it or find it then it can't become a statistic. Typical oul smoke and mirrors bullshit. There's no way an island population of 4 million should have the numbers we have if it had been handled properly.
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
Not liking the meat factory situation here and the blatant disregard they have for worker/public health n safety. Asking them politely to close while 3 counties go into lockdown isn't exaclty a good look for the government.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
I was stopped at the border going back to Spain yesterday, big flashing warning signs that masks were obligatory in Aragón. France could do with getting its finger out, I was at an open air market and we were the only people wearing masks. Ridiculous.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
Will you be doing your two weeks self-isolation? (actually, is there any other type of isolation now that I think about it? Well I suppose people can be isolated as a group so yeah. Anyway..)
The takeup on masks is at pretty much 100% here. If it works at all, which it should, we shouldn't see many spikes in the level of community transmission in the next month. Shouldn't that work out as a relatively quiet winter for the health service then, as the measures we are all taking to avoid one thing should work to avoid all of the others as well. Hopefully so.
As for the airports being empty, that's a good sign but I'm not surprised as I've seen fuck all tourists anywhere this year. Not as many of the Irish going off either. The only problem with that is that it only takes the one to get in to set things back. Say you are here and asymptomatic and you head out around the town thinking sure I'm grand and lo and behold. I don't mean you in particular either but just imagine how many will think sure I feel grand fuck it i'm going for a bag of chips. For every one who does want to play ball there will be one who doesn't. It will be a long road.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
Can't believe they let you back in the country :abbath:
So much for the NZ solution....
Quote from: Pedrito on August 11, 2020, 03:56:44 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
Can't believe they let you back in the country :abbath:
Haha, the missus and kid lend me an air of respectability! We're straight out and staying in the folks' place for the time we're here, bit of a walk everyday, that's it. All within what's asked, even though on a local (rather than national) level, we haven't been anywhere recently with anything other than vanishingly low case rates and we've been distancing, etc., the whole time.
At Bordeaux airport, anyone arriving can get tested free, not offered in Dublin though, which is a pity.
Interesting report here:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19%20Daily%20epidemiology%20report%20(NPHET)%20v1.0_20200810_website.pdf
Quote from: Snare on August 13, 2020, 12:02:36 PM
Interesting report here:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19%20Daily%20epidemiology%20report%20(NPHET)%20v1.0_20200810_website.pdf
Grand bit of reading in that. I'm still trying to decide how to spin it to myself
So here's a question in relation to Covid.
How long do we continue with masks and not just take our chances? Would you prefer things to go back to normal or are you willing to do another year, if not longer of what we're doing now?
I'm looking at how different countries have approached the issue and despite very different approaches there is relatively little between them percentagewise.
Looking at actual testing: The US has tested more than the whole world combined https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-total-tests-for-covid-19
Looking at deaths per million, Ireland is in 13th place, Spain where we had complete lockdown for months is in 4th: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
And yet no sign of China..who would have believed it?
Germany, which seemed to be doing ok, seems to have gotten complacent, people holidaying abroad etc. France on the rise too.
Quote from: Pedrito on August 13, 2020, 05:09:50 PM
I'm looking at how different countries have approached the issue and despite very different approaches there is relatively little between them percentagewise.
I wear the mask with a let's all try it and see if it works attitude. But looking at the way they haven't been actually proven to do anything, it's more of a right let's do it your way so we can see it doesn't work attitude really. The whole thing reminds me of the anecdote about the round of applause where the first one to stop went to the gulag. The whole thing went past ridiculous long ago. Everyone has gone insane.
I don't mind wearing the masks when we need to. Remote working suits me grand. I'd be happy to never see the inside of a busy office / commute again. Socially distanced pints and gigs happening now so it feels a bit more normal.
If they could manage to get the normal pubs open then I'd be grand for another year! Just for a quiet pint at the bar!
Kinda feel it's not my call as the chances of it killing me are low :)
Here, got this today from the kids' primary school:
QuoteRE: Physical Distancing and Safe School Attendance
Physical Distancing will be achieved in two ways: -
Increasing Separation. This will be achieved by re-configuring the classrooms to maximise physical distancing. Each class will be referred to as a bubble and we will ensure that there is as little contact as possible between children in different bubbles. Within the bubbles, children will be organised into pods. A pod is a group of children who will sit together and who will stay in their pod while in the bubble, or classroom.
Decreasing Interaction. This will be achieved by decreasing the potential for children from different bubbles to interact. There will be different routes for various bubbles to enter and exit the school and to access their classrooms. Bubbles will have separate playing areas on the playground. The junior classes will have individual, clearly defined areas to the rear of the school, while the senior classes will play in front of the school also in clearly defined areas along with having access to the field. There will be four teachers and an SNA on yard duty at all times
These are the same kids who will hang out after school together and play sports together. Unworkable and pointless shite just to appease. Young lad hurling the other night and not allowed shake hands after the game. Ridiculous and dangerously stupid. Masks in all indoor settings unless we happen to be eating, and then the virus is not so airborne all of a sudden. Ridiculous. 105 minutes in a pub eating pizza and we are safe as long as it costs 9 euro each. Ridiculous. Over 99 percent survival rate and world shut down causing untold damage to economies and leading to numerous other poor health outcomes which will cripple health service budgets for years to come, just not with covid. Ridiculous shit.
Finally, the removal of our personal freedom to choose to wear or not to wear a mask and the switch of ownership of our personal safety from ourselves to our governments. There is the argument given then saying what about the health service professionals, why can't we shut it all down to protect them? Well we can, but then we are being irresponsible by doing anything at all that carries any element of risk whatsoever really and we should stop driving our cars and gong up ladders as well. What about the old folk? Sure if you want to visit granny, take the precautions yourself and if you are sick, don't visit. What about the nursing homes? Surely the residents are worth enough money for the nursing homes to sort their own shit out and stop laying the blame at the door of joe soap out on the street for their failing the old folks they are supposed to be protecting. The same old folks who die of covid are also the same ones that the flu would also kill, so it's pretty surprising that they weren't already pretty well-equipped for this. Ridiculous.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
Masked both ends? Now there's a mental image.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on August 13, 2020, 06:12:09 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
Just arrived in Dublin from Bordeaux. Flight was empty, airport is empty, everyone (of the few there were) masked both ends and during flight, tracking form thing was mandatory to get through passport control.
Masked both ends? Now there's a mental image.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Has anyone else noticed that with all the latest outbreaks, they are only being highlighted by the blanket testing and not by people actually being sick? Does anyone find that a bit strange, that all these people are carrying a deadly disease and yet have to do a test to know if they have it or not? Surely this adds credence to the notion that the death rate is markedly lower than the confirmed numbers would have us believe.
Just reading there about how hospital numbers have remained stable despite the upturn in numbers testing positive and wondering how far will we all go before we realise that we went too far with it all and that a lot of the measures taken are contradictory and fruitless. So if I run in to a shop for a litre of milk for 2 minutes I must put on a mask and yet if I want to sit in a pub for the guts of 2 hours eating a pizza I don't need one.
At the start of all of this I was thinking in all directions about it and reading all sorts of stuff both for and against the many different approaches to dealing with this but now that the dust has settled somewhat surely I can't be the only one who thinks it's becoming apparent that it has been entirely blown out of proportion and the whole response driven by competing interests for the usual suspect cause of more money. Can everyone not see that because of the sheer level of people who are not sick and have no idea they have it, that all solutions are doomed to failure? Is it time to forget about the whole lockdown approach and go with protecting the vulnerable and letting the rest have at it in the usual fashion?
Talking to people in general on the street I can feel there is traction increasing in that train of thought and not because of the whole "it's not real it's a conspiracy" angle, but more because it's getting obvious it isn't going to work and the realisation that the increase in numbers doesn't equate to an increase in deaths or sick people.
Who here on this forum is afraid of getting it and if you are, are you cocooning yourself, or are you doing the minimum required by public health advice in full trust that the government knows exactly what it is doing and have good reason why people can be unmasked in a restaurant and not a shop?
Edit: Just saw there that hospital waiting list numbers are now over 819,000. Can we see now that the response to the coronavirus will potentially be far more damaging than anything the virus would have done in the long term? 819,000 people who are not asymptomatic, who have actual reasons to be seen in a hospital and stuck on a waiting list. That is about a fifth of the population. What percentage of the population has been affected by the covid? 0.04% deaths and 0.5% discovered infections in total. That is over the 6 months, not at the one time by the way so what is the percentage of affected people at the minute? I dunno but it's far less than that anyway. I'm not even going to get into the economic repercussions of all of this beyond saying just wait for the greatest buyout of all time coming to a world near you in the next year or two. 2008 will be like a dummy run for what happens next.
So which is the more damaging, the covid or the response?
actually, forget it
You're spot on with loads of what you're saying though. The testing is showing massive asymptomatic levels. It certainly killed people but a lot of them had underlying issues/were old etc. Not saying that's right or wrong but, again, I believe the public hysteria generated by an out of control media is forcing politics to react, whereas if we had real media, cool headed stuff, instead the bonkers out of control shite we have to listen to, then we wouldn't be having to do half the things we're forced to do currently.
It really struck me when I drove from Spain to Portugal the other day. They have a population of 10m with around 2k deaths. Spain on the other hand has been really badly hit. I felt like a spa after a while wearing a mask because hardly anyone there was wearing one in the streets. To go into businesses etc yes, but not strolling around. The Spanish are scratching their heads as to why but the Spanish populations are so concentrated in big cities, they have an ageing population, socially they are extremely touchy and close..there's probably a myriad of factors.
Wearing one outside does nothing, it's only of use indoors.
I'm happy to do whatever, my immune system is knackered, so I'd rather not take my chances.
https://cassandravoices.com/science-environment/covid-19-the-perfect-storm/
Bit of an alternative take here on the mask thing. Whatever anyone thinks about it themselves, the section on the lack of proper debate on the issue of masks and the dividing line it draws between people makes interesting food for thought.
'I suspect the mandatory wearing of masks among the general public is motivated by two quasi-political aims. The first is to distract from what is best described as the 'incompetent manslaughter' of several hundred elderly care home residents at the height of the crisis.[iii] Secondly, to pave the way for mandatory vaccinations, the legal case for which has already been set out by Sarah Fulham-McQuillan, Assistant Professor in UCD's Sutherland School of Law,[iv] despite such an intervention not even existing. Such an unprecedented law would obviously be to the direct financial benefit of select pharmaceutical companies'.
Reckon this sums it up lovely
Quote from: Pedrito on August 28, 2020, 08:20:16 AM
Such an unprecedented law would obviously be to the direct financial benefit of select pharmaceutical companies'.
Reckon this sums it up lovely
Vaccines are a miniscule part of pharmaceuticals profits, a lot stopped manufacturing them because of the tiny margins
This whole idea that its all being manufactured so "Big Pharma" can make a rakeload of cash is just way too far fetched for me
Quote from: astfgyl on August 14, 2020, 05:36:02 PM
Has anyone else noticed that with all the latest outbreaks, they are only being highlighted by the blanket testing and not by people actually being sick? Does anyone find that a bit strange, that all these people are carrying a deadly disease and yet have to do a test to know if they have it or not? Surely this adds credence to the notion that the death rate is markedly lower than the confirmed numbers would have us believe.
Just reading there about how hospital numbers have remained stable despite the upturn in numbers testing positive and wondering how far will we all go before we realise that we went too far with it all and that a lot of the measures taken are contradictory and fruitless. So if I run in to a shop for a litre of milk for 2 minutes I must put on a mask and yet if I want to sit in a pub for the guts of 2 hours eating a pizza I don't need one.
At the start of all of this I was thinking in all directions about it and reading all sorts of stuff both for and against the many different approaches to dealing with this but now that the dust has settled somewhat surely I can't be the only one who thinks it's becoming apparent that it has been entirely blown out of proportion and the whole response driven by competing interests for the usual suspect cause of more money. Can everyone not see that because of the sheer level of people who are not sick and have no idea they have it, that all solutions are doomed to failure? Is it time to forget about the whole lockdown approach and go with protecting the vulnerable and letting the rest have at it in the usual fashion?
Talking to people in general on the street I can feel there is traction increasing in that train of thought and not because of the whole "it's not real it's a conspiracy" angle, but more because it's getting obvious it isn't going to work and the realisation that the increase in numbers doesn't equate to an increase in deaths or sick people.
Who here on this forum is afraid of getting it and if you are, are you cocooning yourself, or are you doing the minimum required by public health advice in full trust that the government knows exactly what it is doing and have good reason why people can be unmasked in a restaurant and not a shop?
Edit: Just saw there that hospital waiting list numbers are now over 819,000. Can we see now that the response to the coronavirus will potentially be far more damaging than anything the virus would have done in the long term? 819,000 people who are not asymptomatic, who have actual reasons to be seen in a hospital and stuck on a waiting list. That is about a fifth of the population. What percentage of the population has been affected by the covid? 0.04% deaths and 0.5% discovered infections in total. That is over the 6 months, not at the one time by the way so what is the percentage of affected people at the minute? I dunno but it's far less than that anyway. I'm not even going to get into the economic repercussions of all of this beyond saying just wait for the greatest buyout of all time coming to a world near you in the next year or two. 2008 will be like a dummy run for what happens next.
So which is the more damaging, the covid or the response?
Covid
I think the response is far more damaging as it happens, but each to their own. Have a look at this example and tell me what the idea of this sort of scaremongering is. You could make the point that they didn't know enough at the time, but now that the numbers are there for all to see, no one has come out and said they were a bit wrong. No, the NPHET are unquestionable even when they are working off projections that are highly questionable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=fffzkwMIikI&feature=emb_title
Just look at the claim that every family in Ireland would have a death from Covid if we were to take the Swedish approach for example.
This all ties back into the idea of the influence of the media and social media on the worldwide response to all of this.
You recall that Trev and his good lady actually had it?
Quote from: Trev on August 28, 2020, 08:27:53 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on August 28, 2020, 08:20:16 AM
Such an unprecedented law would obviously be to the direct financial benefit of select pharmaceutical companies'.
Reckon this sums it up lovely
Vaccines are a miniscule part of pharmaceuticals profits, a lot stopped manufacturing them because of the tiny margins
This whole idea that its all being manufactured so "Big Pharma" can make a rakeload of cash is just way too far fetched for me
The part about the potential conflict of interest involving Professor O' Neill is actually spot on though. He is one of the founders of Sitryx, who are after signing an astronomical deal with GlaxoSmithKline and Lilly Pharmaceuticals, who both happen to be developing vaccine candidates, which if successful will potentially make a shitload of money for our scaremongering Professor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=fffzkwMIikI&feature=emb_title
Leaving that video there again in case it gets lost along the way.
Quote from: Juggz on August 28, 2020, 09:13:23 AM
You recall that Trev and his good lady actually had it?
I do recall that, and I wish them all the best with the recovery from it. The fact that someone on the forum had Covid doesn't take anything from the validity of what I'm saying and doesn't mean that I'm saying it doesn't exist or anything like that at all, just that the whole response is highly questionable. The scaremongering from the likes of Professor O'Neill has driven a disproportionate response which nobody will row back on now and, as mentioned in the article I linked, a lot of the measures in place seem to give the impression that it is the common folk who are in the wrong and absolve the decision makers of any blame for the likes of the nursing homes or the not fit for purpose health service and god knows what else.
Edit: Here's another bit of a video from a chap who was asked to speak about masks to our government. Amazing how his advice was completely ignored. Don't knock it til you watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNI2ocgosgA&feature=youtu.be
Agree with you there. The Big Pharma thing that Trev pushed back on is bollox alright, the manslaughter part isn't. The scaremongering and media response is completely disproportionate though as the numbers are showing now.
We appear to have been catapulted into some sort of Daily Mail and The Sun style future here, where the screaming headlines do not tally up with the actual information presented in the main body of the article
Edit: I know how easily things go missing in fast moving threads, so I'll leave this one here again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNI2ocgosgA&feature=youtu.be
We're expecting Clair Byrne, the Guardian, The Sun etc to tell us what to do and they're simply journalists who have a product to sell..hysteria, outrage, fear.
You'd be delighted to have Claire Byrne tell you what to do, be honest now! :laugh:
You always have to bring the tone down ye dirtbird :laugh: :laugh: only with ny mask on!!!
I do think there definitely should have more accountability over the nursing homes, health services etc, especially given the amount of shit that the whole golf dinner got
As an aside, if a vaccine comes out in say the next year or so, how many would be willing to get it?
Personally, I wouldn't. I wouldn't tell anyone else not to though and I'm not anti vaccination either. I would treat it like the flu vaccine as in let anyone who falls into the high risk groups get it if they feel the need. If it were the case that everyone was in the high risk group, let everyone get it, but that isn't the case so no I definitely wouldn't be taking it.
Now that you have had it, would you take the vaccine yourself or hope that your immune system has developed a response from it and take your chances?
Just a couple of remarks on the Ireland lockdown versus Sweden without lockdown thing; 1) Sweden does have a statistically significantly higher death rate than Ireland. 2) A large part of this, by their own admission, is because they didn't do enough to specifically protect vulnerable populations (retirement homes, etc.). 3) Not to shit on the Irish too much, but I'm strongly convinced that a policy of personal responsibility à la Sweden applied in Ireland would have had as consequence a huge increase in cases; pubs and bars staying open, population on less of a state of alert. Maybe not 11 times higher death rate (and Prof O'Neill seems a bit of a gombeen with his made up projections), but potentially several times more. Impossible to know for sure, but that would be my feeling on Ireland without draconian measures; I don't trust us not to take something lightly if given the choice (which in itself is a reflection of things I love about us as a people too, not just a blanket criticism).
Quote from: astfgyl on August 28, 2020, 10:09:52 AM
Now that you have had it, would you take the vaccine yourself or hope that your immune system has developed a response from it and take your chances?
Once it's been tested and proven safe I'd have no problem getting it, because it is absolutely something I never want to go through again. Talking to my GP whole back and they were saying the most recent research is showing that there is no long-term immunity developing after having it, with the numbers of people getting it a second time constantly rising
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 28, 2020, 10:19:31 AM
Just a couple of remarks on the Ireland lockdown versus Sweden without lockdown thing; 1) Sweden does have a statistically significantly higher death rate than Ireland. 2) A large part of this, by their own admission, is because they didn't do enough to specifically protect vulnerable populations (retirement homes, etc.). 3) Not to shit on the Irish too much, but I'm strongly convinced that a policy of personal responsibility à la Sweden applied in Ireland would have had as consequence a huge increase in cases; pubs and bars staying open, population on less of a state of alert. Maybe not 11 times higher death rate (and Prof O'Neill seems a bit of a gombeen with his made up projections), but potentially several times more. Impossible to know for sure, but that would be my feeling on Ireland without draconian measures; I don't trust us not to take something lightly if given the choice (which in itself is a reflection of things I love about us as a people too, not just a blanket criticism).
It's the same argument in Spain. You couldn't trust the fuckers to do the right thing. That said, I'd probably be the same.
Quote from: Trev on August 28, 2020, 10:21:19 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 28, 2020, 10:09:52 AM
Now that you have had it, would you take the vaccine yourself or hope that your immune system has developed a response from it and take your chances?
Once it's been tested and proven safe I'd have no problem getting it, because it is absolutely something I never want to go through again. Talking to my GP whole back and they were saying the most recent research is showing that there is no long-term immunity developing after having it, with the numbers of people getting it a second time constantly rising
Yeah any reports from people who suffered with it I read sound awful.
And that's before you get to the first hand reports from doctors and nurses and what they experienced in the hospitals.
I'll take anything to get the pubs open :)
I think the mainstream media gets too much blame when people don't like the information.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 28, 2020, 10:19:31 AM
Just a couple of remarks on the Ireland lockdown versus Sweden without lockdown thing; 1) Sweden does have a statistically significantly higher death rate than Ireland. 2) A large part of this, by their own admission, is because they didn't do enough to specifically protect vulnerable populations (retirement homes, etc.). 3) Not to shit on the Irish too much, but I'm strongly convinced that a policy of personal responsibility à la Sweden applied in Ireland would have had as consequence a huge increase in cases; pubs and bars staying open, population on less of a state of alert. Maybe not 11 times higher death rate (and Prof O'Neill seems a bit of a gombeen with his made up projections), but potentially several times more. Impossible to know for sure, but that would be my feeling on Ireland without draconian measures; I don't trust us not to take something lightly if given the choice (which in itself is a reflection of things I love about us as a people too, not just a blanket criticism).
I was saying the same about the Irish way back in this thread and you are right about that, the Swedes are much more likely to heed advice.
Quote from: Trev on August 28, 2020, 10:21:19 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 28, 2020, 10:09:52 AM
Now that you have had it, would you take the vaccine yourself or hope that your immune system has developed a response from it and take your chances?
Once it's been tested and proven safe I'd have no problem getting it, because it is absolutely something I never want to go through again. Talking to my GP whole back and they were saying the most recent research is showing that there is no long-term immunity developing after having it, with the numbers of people getting it a second time constantly rising
I was looking into those reports of reinfection and indeed they are rising all the time. So far it seems that those getting it twice aren't getting it with any severity the second time, although it isn't clear whether they were severe or mild the first time so that would need looking into. Hopefully it's the case that some degree of immune response is bookmarked in those who have contracted it.
I've been watching more videos of Carl Heneghan's advice given in the Seanad, and am amazed at how it has seemingly been completely disregarded. It's like "let's get an expert in for advice" and then "let's forget all of what he just said". Indeed, looking at the response of the senators sitting there, it's as if they have no interest before it even gets going.
I would highly recommend watching them.
Here's one and the rest can be followed on from it. You might like this one, Pete, as it relates to the pubs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtjY2N0I__0
There really are a vanishingly small number of confirmed reinfection cases. A couple of easy to digest considerations on that dimension here anyway:
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-reinfection-what-it-actually-means-and-why-you-shouldnt-panic-144965
That is very similar to the stuff I have been reading, that one simply doesn't get as sick the second time. Not that any of that matters to the headline-readers. I concede that it is in the very early stages though so I don't want it to come across that I'm saying somebody definitely won't get very sick the second time, just that it appears unlikely so far.
But they're still very capable of passing it on to someone who might not be quite so robust, right?
Yes, but isn't that ......... Fuck it, I'll take that one on the chin. :)
Of course I'm not questioning the fact that there is a coronavirus that can kill people in high risk groups, I'm just questioning the disproportionate and fear driven response to it. I wouldn't like the two to be conflated. Have you watched any of Carl Heneghan's advice to the Seanad committee?
Definitely. We can't all be wearing masks and locking up the world for much longer if it's not going to affect the vast majority. What needs to happen is a pinpointing of those most at risk and solutions offered etc. I'm sure an element of that is already being done, and of course more needed.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0828/1161895-excess-mortality-figures/
Falling all the time, although the effects of locking down on people's general behaviour can't be disregarded. I'm sure many a car crash has been avoided and whatever else
Here is a very interesting examination of several other aspects of the reporting around Covid. Recommended for anyone who likes to hear both sides of an argument before taking the knee..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7vLA7hQ5rI
Quote from: astfgyl on August 28, 2020, 11:36:21 AM
Yes, but isn't that ......... Fuck it, I'll take that one on the chin. :)
Of course I'm not questioning the fact that there is a coronavirus that can kill people in high risk groups, I'm just questioning the disproportionate and fear driven response to it. I wouldn't like the two to be conflated. Have you watched any of Carl Heneghan's advice to the Seanad committee?
Yeah, I watched the video you posted. I'm as qualified to say he's right as I am to say he's wrong. I'd be interested to see footage of the physicians whose advice the NPHET is following if you have it. It's hard to see the obvious gaps in their structure where Heneghan's opinion could fall on deaf ears if he's right and they're wrong but, hey, I'm just a lad without any medical qualifications and probably better off trusting those who do to decide on my behalf for now.
https://assets.gov.ie/78019/cb417ba9-e584-4c12-a164-259521ebf667.pdf
My take on it is quite simple: although I'm probably likely to be alright were I to get it, my oul one, who has been through a long period of chemo as part of cancer treatment, might not be. I don't want her to get it and it would fucking haunt me were I to transmit it to her. It would haunt me were I to transmit it to anyone, actually, especially if it was just because I felt I knew better. How do I know what problems other people have? I don't feel wearing a mask is that much of an imposition for now. It's not a big deal. The emphasis had been on minimising infections in an effort not to clog up hospitals and negatively affect other treatments, no? The numbers are, what, 3386 out of 28453 have required hospitalisation, so almost 1 in 10? Yeah, I have no problem playing ball and wearing a mask and keeping my hands clean if that helps. If that makes me a gullible sheep then baaaaah.
Juggz is on the money.
There's no narrative of fear being "pushed" - it's justified. Look at the rate of infections and deaths we've had, that's despite lockdown, other concerted efforts to minimise exposure and having a really low population density.
I'll say this as well - it's fine and dandy to say "it's only people with underlying health problems that need to worry". Well, I'm diabetic. My immune system isn't worth a fuck. If I catch this I'm up the creek. I can spend anywhere up to six weeks trying to shake a cold. Even if I'm not completely bed-ridden by it, it makes managing the diabetes more of a nightmare than it already is.
I'm fine in that my chances of catching it is the same as others, but it's once I catch it shit hits the fan. Therefore I have to limit my chances of catching it. I'm one of those people that looks perfectly healthy (I even look reasonably fit), but I'm really fucking not.
So just wear a mask, stay the fuck home, buy a few cans instead of going out and realise how fucking lucky you are not to have underlying health issues.
100%
And even if you think you are healthy, that doesn't mean you'll get off scott free. It seems very random. Even if I wasn't a hypochondriac, I'd still be loathe to take a chance, either for me, or those around me. It's a mask, not an iron chastity belt.
Yeah no one's pretending a mask is comfortable or whatever, but I'm sure a jaunt to COVID-town would be a whole lot less comfortable, even for an otherwise healthy individual.
Seems to be at a steady 150 per day average. Youd have to think another lockdown is imminent.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that it's a serious issue. The problem is that the response isn't adequate or appropriate. Masks are useless and yet we are all wearing them. There was talk of the Gardaí going onto people's property to stop them meeting up and these kind of measures do seem to be driven by irrational and kneejerk emotions. It just seems haphazard and now looking at the numbers one would have imagined they could pinpoint more clearly the 'at risk' people. I'm all for eliminating the thing as soon as possible but it's not clear if that is ever likely to happen.
I think the coming Autumn and Winter will show us where we are with this thing, but the worry is that this becomes some sort of 'new norm' and I'm not sure if that can be allowed to happen. It's a tricky one and there seems no clear path at the moment. All that said, some people are complete pisstakers in terms of not giving any fuck about others and the book should be thrown at them. If the rest of us have to wear a mask and keep 2 metres distance, then they can surely do so, and that includes BLM, Gemma O'Doherty, Phil Hogan or any other selfish lunatic out there.
Masks aren't useless though. Outdoors - sure, it's a case of the fresh air being of a gigantic enough volume to make the risk negligible, but indoors is another story where the air isn't refreshed and recycled enough. You might be nipping into Dunnes for ten minutes, but the poor fucks working there are stuck there for eight hours a day and are exposed to the exhalations of half the town for their troubles.
I'm by no means an expert, but I think I've had enough of a third level education in both virology and microbiology to say I think erring on the side of caution is the best way to go. The dopes in the Dail may be chasing their tails and sending mixed messages, but I have enough of a head on me shoulders to say "I don't need official guidelines to exercise caution".
They're sending mixed messages because they're human and they also don't have a clue what they should do... To take an Alan Moore quote out of context - "the world is rudderless".
Yeah man, I forget I live in Spain sometimes and my issues are probably not yours. We have to wear masks in the street. A total pain in the hole and completely useless. I have no problem wearing them indoors. I find my mind changing on the whole thing constantly. There is definitely media driven hype and scaremongering going on that is in no way connected to the real issue and real fears, but I think it colours the response of flakey politicians. People aren't sheep to want to protect themselves or their loved ones, quite the opposite in fact. It would just be great to get some real, levelheaded messaging on the whole thing. Even the numbers that are coming out have all sorts of caveats attached to them.
I work in a research institute and mask wearing has been made obligatory in all spaces, including for lab heads in their individual offices. Why? Because if you have to wear it all the time, it'll be on you when someone happens into close contact with you (steps into office to ask something, walks too close by you on street, jogger heaving and puffing as they slide past, etc.), and there's also little risk of you leaving that individual space to go into a collective (or enclosed) one and forgetting. Of course, in Spain it is a bit odd since all the bars are open and everyone is sitting there unmasked at their tables, but in Ireland that's not the case. In Spain I would have to say that the gap between street policy and bar/café policy is ridiculous...and maybe that explains the current infection rate (I'm actually in Spain at the moment). Bars are full of young people acting in no way differently to before, and it's spreading among that population. In France I think it's the same. But in Ireland, where the bars are closed, the young people are just meeting up anyway. A niece of mine who's 23 says they regularly meet up to session in whatever gaff is free in groups of 15 or so; sure what else are they going to do??
The mask makes sound enough sense, but it's not going to get young people acting sensibly; at best it'll become an accessory to them. But at least imposing it as much as possible means that vulnerable populations (and there are a LOT of them) feel comfortable going for a walk into town, going to do the shopping, etc.
In short, most of us can act more or less as we like (except for the pub issue in Ireland) since we're not worried for ourselves, and this fact is borne out precisely by the rise in cases in our demographic across Europe. So just wear the mask when you're asked to, knowing the idea is to protect and also reassure those who believe/know they'd be fucked if the wrong person coughed on them.
I get the logic but the question is does mask wearing actually work? I'm reading and hearing so many conflicting reports. If it doesn't work then it makes no sense to wear them if it's only there to make people feel better. I have no problem wearing one if it actually works. But that's the million dollar question.
Does a mask stop you getting the virus? No. Does the mask lessen the chance of you passing it on? Yes. That has been fairly consistent since they advised people to wear them here.
Plenty arguments to the contrary is my point and, as said, no problem wearing them if it stops others getting it.
Got any links?
Not related to masks and definitely not related to Ivor Cummins but this interview exploded here a couple of weeks ago..it's the only translation I can find. Just to put numbers in context: Madrid has a population of 6.6m people and it's suspected another possible million live here who are not registered. It's an eyeopening interview with someone on the frontline and not a journalist or politician with agendas in place.
https://youtu.be/SwlkumcRf6w
Ignoring the lower turnover of air in buildings, masks absolutely slow the spread as they partially mitigate an infected person breathing on everything.
It lasts for what, over 24 hours on surfaces? Look at somewhere like a supermarket where there's a large volume of people in close proximity to the various surfaces of shelving, fridges, etc. Most places wipe down all those fixed surfaces on the regular, but what about those products out on the shelves?
They're there long enough for countless people to breathe on them, so anything that mitigates that is good.
I notice that those who aren't convinced by the mask situation aren't calling for the wearing of masks to be abolished, and that those who do advocate the use of them have no problem with making outlaws out of those who don't want to. How many here were wearing the masks before they were mandatory? Not in work or anything, just nipping in for a loaf of bread or whatnot?
I don't mind if people want to wear them whatsoever, in fact I wear it every time I go anywhere that requires it. I don't like the idea that it isn't being questioned and is being forced on everyone when there is no published study on their efficacy. These things should be questioned all of the time. I was speaking to a fella the other day, and he said to me did I not think the masks work and I said the jury is out as far as I'm concerned (we were both wearing them at the time btw) and he told me he had proof they do work. What is it? I said... He comes back with well you see all those people wearing them?... I do says I... Well they are alive so that proves that the masks do work. This is the sort of logic I meet every day. It is akin to arguing with the born agains about god.
Everybody is suddenly claiming to be driven by science but the science doesn't seem to be getting put through the proper scrutiny. Nobody wants to cast a critical eye on it at all, and those who do are lumped in with the ancient aliens crowd, despite the fact there is no proof that they are right or wrong so far.
What I would like to see is a proper comparison of wearing them vs not wearing them. It doesn't exist unfortunately. Anyway, the masks aren't such a big deal to me, I'm willing to play along and was willing before it became compulsory, too. I don't want to get caught up in the idea of being anti mask. I am against the criminalisation of those who don't wish to play along though.
And lastly, someone said here stay home play the playstation drink a few cans what is the big deal? No big deal, and I couldn't give a fuck about the pub really either as I only go there about twice a year as it is. It is the collateral damage being done which concerns me a lot more. So far as I see it there are 2 approaches to this that "work". The NZ model of isolating the entire country, or the Swedish model of following health advice in an otherwise open country. Both of which offer more freedom and less economic damage to their citizens but neither of which are being considered here.
Yep, agree with all of that. I've no problem wearing a mask, like with so much nowadays, you hint towards a certain cynicism and you're put in a box. Now, the opposite sheep bullshit is true too and none of it helps and it's just a further indication as to how unused to discussion and having opposing opinions people have become.
There's "no proof" because pushing peer-reviewed scientific studies out to Joe Public isn't going to accomplish shit. These are the guys and gals that are far more qualified to give an opinion on the matter, why aren't they trusted? When you're told as a kid don't put a nail into a socket do you heed the advice or do you put one in because you're skeptical?
I'm not saying don't question things or that skepticism is bad, but at what point do you have to concede that you don't really understand what's going on and they maybe you should listen to those in the know?
It took about half a second to Google "efficacy of face masks" and have a report from the CDC with a tonne of references to studies pop up.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html#recent-studies
Quote from: Pedrito on August 30, 2020, 12:28:37 PM
Not related to masks and definitely not related to Ivor Cummins but this interview exploded here a couple of weeks ago..it's the only translation I can find. Just to put numbers in context: Madrid has a population of 6.6m people and it's suspected another possible million live here who are not registered. It's an eyeopening interview with someone on the frontline and not a journalist or politician with agendas in place.
https://youtu.be/SwlkumcRf6w
This is the sort of thing I have been getting at, and I'm glad someone in his position has the bollix to open their mouths and say it. In fact, the likes of the masks argument only serves as a distraction and I am as guilty as anyone of getting caught up in that argument. What he is saying is the same as what is happening here in our country.
Quote from: Ducky on August 30, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
There's "no proof" because pushing peer-reviewed scientific studies out to Joe Public isn't going to accomplish shit. These are the guys and gals that are far more qualified to give an opinion on the matter, why aren't they trusted? When you're told as a kid don't put a nail into a socket do you heed the advice or do you put one in because you're skeptical?
I'm not saying don't question things or that skepticism is bad, but at what point do you have to concede that you don't really understand what's going on and they maybe you should listen to those in the know?
It took about half a second to Google "efficacy of face masks" and have a report from the CDC with a tonne of references to studies pop up.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html#recent-studies
I see all of those studies there. Have you read them?
Good interview Pedrito...not directly about mask wearing, but to my mind he just says the situation as it is. I've been reading up folk in Belgium and France saying essentially the same thing. As for masks:
Here's a recent for:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent#:~:text=But%20health%20experts%20say%20the,people%20wearing%20masks%2C%20the%20better.
And a recent (though not as recent) against (involving Carl Heneghan):
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
Both worth reading. Some interesting differences in approach to epidemiology; see if you can spot them. They involve that the two positions are talking past each other in a way that's worth trying to understand.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 30, 2020, 01:27:48 PM
Quote from: Ducky on August 30, 2020, 01:19:14 PM
There's "no proof" because pushing peer-reviewed scientific studies out to Joe Public isn't going to accomplish shit. These are the guys and gals that are far more qualified to give an opinion on the matter, why aren't they trusted? When you're told as a kid don't put a nail into a socket do you heed the advice or do you put one in because you're skeptical?
I'm not saying don't question things or that skepticism is bad, but at what point do you have to concede that you don't really understand what's going on and they maybe you should listen to those in the know?
It took about half a second to Google "efficacy of face masks" and have a report from the CDC with a tonne of references to studies pop up.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html#recent-studies
I see all of those studies there. Have you read them?
I can't access the referenced reports, so I haven't read them. But seeing as the article referencing them is the CDC saying "wear a mask", it's reasonable to assume what they conclude.
I think again, that your answer encapsulates a lot of the problem. It is not reasonable to assume anything without reading beyond the headline. It is reasonable to actually read where they are getting their info from and draw your conclusion to the best of your ability or understanding. It is also reasonable to listen to more than one side of the argument, so I won't say those referenced studies are wrong or that they are implying something more than inferring it without reading them.
This lady here https://youtu.be/A7vLA7hQ5rI?t=590 gives a brief overview on looking into things as an investigative journalist. I know we all don't have the time she does to investigate everything, but what she is proposing we do here is a good starting point. Have a look at it anyway it's only a couple of minutes from the timestamp there and it is not sensationalist or misleading in the slightest, just plain and simple methodology for testing the value of the information we receive.
Look I don't want to come across like I have a clue about the answers to any of this, but from what I see panning out here we are all being fed with questionable information from all sides but too many don't want to question it, and that leads to acceptance of things that may not be strictly true. That in itself might not be such a big deal except for the outcome affects every one of us in almost all aspects of our lives and it is creating hysteria around something that needs to be looked at in a much more critical and level headed fashion.
They're all fair points. If masks don't work, for arguments sake) then they are possibly more dangerous than if we didn't use them. That would be my way of approaching it. That's not to say we shouldn't do our best to wipe the virus out. I'm keeping an open mind and following the rules, questionable as many of them seem to be.
Ah yeah, it could well turn out that masks are the thing that saves the human race from extinction. It's just that the solid evidence isn't there, just the hypothesis so far. So yeah, I'll stay wearing it while keeping a healthy dose of skepticism and a rough 2 metres out of people's way.
Same..they're great when I go shoplifting on a Saturday morning.
I still don't understand the anti-mask argument at all, I have to say. Like, it's just not a big deal to wear a mask, or is it? I wasn't arsed taking mine off after coming out of the shop the other day and cycled home, up hills etc. My mouth was a bit warm, that was about the extent of the "bad".
On the efficacy, I wouldn't see it as a zero sum game. If it can help reduce the spread at all (and it seems like it would have to, there's been several videos just demonstrating on a brute, pop physics way, good one in this thread even) then why not give it a lash?
I can understand the anti-vaxxer arguments to an extent (even if I think they're a load of fucking bollocks) but anti-mask just makes no sense to me on any serious level. Like, who does it benefit to push the wearing of masks? If this is coming off an snarky, it's not meant to at all. Just wanna see what the reasoning might be, because all I've seen so far (not from any of ye, but elsewhere) has basically amounted to "I don't like it".
Seems to be more or less accepted in my neck of the woods at this stage, very rare to see anyone in a shop without one though there's always one or two - usually travellers, as it happens. The worst offenders are the ones who wear them below their nose or on their chin, each rendering them utterly useless. It's only when they're refused service that they'll cop on, and that'll never happen.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on August 30, 2020, 06:05:13 PM
I still don't understand the anti-mask argument at all, I have to say. Like, it's just not a big deal to wear a mask, or is it? I wasn't arsed taking mine off after coming out of the shop the other day and cycled home, up hills etc. My mouth was a bit warm, that was about the extent of the "bad".
On the efficacy, I wouldn't see it as a zero sum game. If it can help reduce the spread at all (and it seems like it would have to, there's been several videos just demonstrating on a brute, pop physics way, good one in this thread even) then why not give it a lash?
I can understand the anti-vaxxer arguments to an extent (even if I think they're a load of fucking bollocks) but anti-mask just makes no sense to me on any serious level. Like, who does it benefit to push the wearing of masks? If this is coming off an snarky, it's not meant to at all. Just wanna see what the reasoning might be, because all I've seen so far (not from any of ye, but elsewhere) has basically amounted to "I don't like it".
It's not what we're saying. There's loads of info out there saying it doesn't work and might even be worse for you. Why would someone wear something that doesn't work if they don't have to? That's all. It's not a conspiracy, it's trying to get real, legitimate info which doesn't seem to exist.
Quote from: Pedrito on August 30, 2020, 07:37:43 PM
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on August 30, 2020, 06:05:13 PM
I still don't understand the anti-mask argument at all, I have to say. Like, it's just not a big deal to wear a mask, or is it? I wasn't arsed taking mine off after coming out of the shop the other day and cycled home, up hills etc. My mouth was a bit warm, that was about the extent of the "bad".
On the efficacy, I wouldn't see it as a zero sum game. If it can help reduce the spread at all (and it seems like it would have to, there's been several videos just demonstrating on a brute, pop physics way, good one in this thread even) then why not give it a lash?
I can understand the anti-vaxxer arguments to an extent (even if I think they're a load of fucking bollocks) but anti-mask just makes no sense to me on any serious level. Like, who does it benefit to push the wearing of masks? If this is coming off an snarky, it's not meant to at all. Just wanna see what the reasoning might be, because all I've seen so far (not from any of ye, but elsewhere) has basically amounted to "I don't like it".
It's not what we're saying. There's loads of info out there saying it doesn't work and might even be worse for you. Why would someone wear something that doesn't work if they don't have to? That's all. It's not a conspiracy, it's trying to get real, legitimate info which doesn't seem to exist.
Have to ask. Where is this info that a mask dosent work and that it actually makes it worse.
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
Here. It doesn't say that they conclusively make it worse, just that the findings of the study in question indicated that they may do so more than it indicated they may do any good.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 30, 2020, 03:22:48 PM
I think again, that your answer encapsulates a lot of the problem. It is not reasonable to assume anything without reading beyond the headline. It is reasonable to actually read where they are getting their info from and draw your conclusion to the best of your ability or understanding. It is also reasonable to listen to more than one side of the argument, so I won't say those referenced studies are wrong or that they are implying something more than inferring it without reading them.
This lady here https://youtu.be/A7vLA7hQ5rI?t=590 gives a brief overview on looking into things as an investigative journalist. I know we all don't have the time she does to investigate everything, but what she is proposing we do here is a good starting point. Have a look at it anyway it's only a couple of minutes from the timestamp there and it is not sensationalist or misleading in the slightest, just plain and simple methodology for testing the value of the information we receive.
Look I don't want to come across like I have a clue about the answers to any of this, but from what I see panning out here we are all being fed with questionable information from all sides but too many don't want to question it, and that leads to acceptance of things that may not be strictly true. That in itself might not be such a big deal except for the outcome affects every one of us in almost all aspects of our lives and it is creating hysteria around something that needs to be looked at in a much more critical and level headed fashion.
I did, I read the big article the CDC wrote about it. They're not some lad on YouTube, they're one of the global authorities on infectious disease. And i don't need to read the counterpoints. Again, I'm by no means an expert but I have a degree in environmental science that involved three years of both the theoretical and practical study of microbiology. What the CDC says lines up perfectly with my own understanding of things before I read about it.
If you will, my own educated guess on things aligns with the factual information that has been documented.
Anyway, it's wearing a mask, no biggie.
Quote from: Ducky on August 30, 2020, 09:56:49 PM
And i don't need to read the counterpoints.
That's the spirit!
I hear ya Young Led Zep, not like people are being asked to wear a ball & chain or anything. It's a minor inconvenience, and that's only because of my glasses.
I like the plug and nail reference as well Juggz! :D So yeah, I really don't see the need to get so hung up on masks.
About non-maskers not looking to get others not to wear masks, I think the point is that others don't want to be exposed to their carelessness/recklessness. If they want to play Russian Roulette then keep the rest of us out of it please.
Speaking of which, great to see a certain female journalist see her come uppance and get arrested for her antics the other day. And with her anti-immigrant / refugee stance, it's too funny that she's talking about leaving the country and seeking refugee status elsewhere! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on August 30, 2020, 09:50:41 PM
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/
Here. It doesn't say that they conclusively make it worse, just that the findings of the study in question indicated that they may do so more than it indicated they may do any good.
Hmmm...
The group study was comparing medical masks vs cloth masks in
Quote1607 hospital HCWs aged ≥18 years working full-time in selected high-risk wards
- so they're monitoring the effectiveness of masks in preventing infection in an environment where the ill are not wearing masks?
it says this...
QuoteThis trial found ILI rates were 13 times higher in Vietnamese hospital workers allocated to cloth masks compared to medical/surgical masks, RR 13.25, (95%CI 1.74 to 100.97) and over three times higher when compared to no masks, RR 3.49 (95%CI 1.00 to 12.17). 4
So, correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly, but I interpret that as wearing medical masks has a substantial positive impact on the wearer becoming infected compared to no mask and cloth mask, and wearing a cloth mask potentially exposes the wearer to greater risk of infection in an environment where the infected are not wearing masks?
QuotePenetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection.
The wearing of masks has been advised to prevent the spread of airborne particles and medical masks appear to prevent 56% of particle penetration based on that finding, so that backs up the concept of why we're advised to be wearing a mask provided it's a medical mask, no?
One of the other documents it references says...
QuoteThe use of face masks was protective for both health-care workers and people in the community exposed to infection, with both the frequentist and Bayesian analyses lending support to face mask use irrespective of setting. Our unadjusted analyses might, at first impression, suggest use of face masks in the community setting to be less effective than in the health-care setting, but after accounting for differential N95 respirator use between health-care and non-health-care settings, we did not detect any striking differences in effectiveness of face mask use between settings. The credibility of effect-modification across settings was, therefore, low. Wearing face masks was also acceptable and feasible.
So, what I take from that is that wearing medical masks is a good thing, in line with what has been advised, whereas wearing cloth masks is largely ineffective and become a risk if not washed after use? So if I wear a medical mask and you wear a medical mask we substantially reduce the risk of transmitting a virus such as this to each other, as the mask has benefits in preventing particles leaving an infected wearer as well as being inhaled by an uninfected wearer, based on your link.
First of all, fair play for actually reading it before using it against me
Quote from: Juggz on August 30, 2020, 10:58:00 PM
So, what I take from that is that wearing medical masks is a good thing, in line with what has been advised, whereas wearing cloth masks is largely ineffective and become a risk if not washed after use? So if I wear a medical mask and you wear a medical mask we substantially reduce the risk of transmitting a virus such as this to each other, as the mask has benefits in preventing particles leaving an infected wearer as well as being inhaled by an uninfected wearer, based on your link.
That seems a perfectly reasonable deduction from what the study presents and I have no argument with that logic.
However, the HSE says:
QuoteMedical face masks
Medical face masks are for:
healthcare workers
people in self-isolation who cannot keep a distance of 2 metres between themselves and other people in their household
Some workers in specific jobs also use them. Medical masks are vital supplies. They are not intended for use by the general public unless you are in self-isolation and cannot keep a distance of 2 metres between you and other people in your household.
Wear a cloth face covering when shopping and on public transport. This will help to make sure that medical face masks are kept for those who really need them.
That is from https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/face-masks-disposable-gloves.html
So we don't really need them then?
and I said:
QuoteHere. It doesn't say that they conclusively make it worse, just that the findings of the study in question indicated that they may do so more than it indicated they may do any good.
Maybe I have should have clarified it a bit by mentioning that I meant the cloth masks that we are all wearing, and that we have been talking about in this thread, so I don't see the issue with what I said there at all.
Medical ones sound like they should do a bit.
Not using anything against you, just interested to see where the anti-mask thing is coming from. I don't watch telly, I don't do social media, so I have no idea where this sentiment comes from. Using a mask to make it harder for crap to leave your mouth seems like basic common sense to me and the objections to it are, from my perspective at least, baffling. They still are. Like the demonisation of "
the left" in the other thread, I'm not exposed to this kind of stuff in my usual day-to-day activities so am curious to get behind the sensationalism to see where it's coming from.
From the link you just posted
QuoteA cloth face covering should cover the nose and go under the chin and:
fit snugly but comfortably against the side of the face
be secured with ties or ear loops
include at least 2 layers of fabric
allow for breathing without restriction
Wash daily in a hot wash over 60 degrees with detergent.
It would be interesting to know the spec of the mask used in the Vietnamese study, were they single layer masks and how regularly were they cleaned/replaced, if at all? It stands to reason that these are factors which, unfortunately, aren't clarified in the report.
I've been using medical masks in shops and the like since the lockdown started (since you asked earlier) and, since there was previously no clarification on the kind of masks people were taking umbrage to, I, naturally, assumed the objection was to
all masks since we all just said "masks" and not "cloth masks" ;) . The HSE should go to Woodies if they're short, there are loads of them there :laugh:
I'm honestly not anti mask in the slightest. I'm not convinced about them (cloth ones) but I'm definitely not against anyone else doing whatever they want. I just get caught up in arguing the toss over these things more than they actually bother me. Sure if medical masks were no good for people, why have they been used in the hospitals for all these years? I also don't think cloth masks will harm anyone as it happens.
I just feel that their becoming compulsory is more about politics than public health.
I was wearing them going into shops and whatnot since they were recommended a couple of weeks before it became an offence not to, and that was mostly because if I didn't I was one of the only few not doing it. I've also had to wear them in work from the get go and I often try smoke a fag only to realise I have a mask on, so the thing in itself doesn't affect me. When I look around at everyone with the cloth masks, I feel like I'm looking at one of the symptoms of the illness that is the whole world going mad but somebody said to me that maybe the effect is that they make people feel safer going about their business and if they do nothing only that, sure I suppose it's something.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 31, 2020, 04:26:50 PMI just feel that their becoming compulsory is more about politics than public health.
They slow the spread of a highly infectious and dangerous disease that we have no reliable preventative treatment for and it can also overwhelm the healthcare system if we allow it to go unchecked.
How on any planet is that about politics and not public health?
The point is that most people comply. People are doing their best. That said, there's a kind of criminal vibe being thrown at people who step out of line. Gatherings in houses, pubs etc etc. Now, I'm all for doing the right thing, but that 'right thing' needs to be backed up by very real numbers. I don't see any issue in questioning it. I'm still complying and doing my best, but there is a tonne of info out there about the efficacy of masks(some of which has already been included in the thrrad before anyone asks) and I don't see an issue in discussing it here on Metal Warfare which has absolutely no knock on effect in the real world.
Also, there is huge mixed messaging being put out there. Joe public is expected to abide by rules and regs and yet we continue to allow travel in and out of countries. We've seen a number of high profile figures lose their jobs recently in Ireland for literally 'breathing' and I wouldn't argue against them having lost their jobs, but, again, are the numbers supporting the measures, is it working, does the risk to economy, jobs, education outweigh the benefit. I think it's all very valid and open to 'questioning' without acting like a prick and intentionally going against all the new rules just to be a prick.
Quote from: Ducky on August 31, 2020, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 31, 2020, 04:26:50 PMI just feel that their becoming compulsory is more about politics than public health.
They slow the spread of a highly infectious and dangerous disease that we have no reliable preventative treatment for and it can also overwhelm the healthcare system if we allow it to go unchecked.
How on any planet is that about politics and not public health?
We still talking about the cloth masks here? There is no actual proof they work, but I am willing to concede that they might make people feel safer. That is the last I will say about the efficacy of cloth masks unless some results of some sort come out to change my mind.
What I see for the most part is that it takes away the focus from other questions like what happened with the nursing homes? It's easy to turn us all against each other using something like the wearing of masks and saying the reason the cases are going back up is because we aren't behaving, like the mask protesters and those pesky kids with their house parties and having friends and family for barbecues etc, and of course that Killarney Crowd, when the evidence shows that yes, a lot of the recent clusters were private house and party related, but not a lot of deaths. In fact fuck all deaths have arisen from all of this public misbehaviour we see and hear since the lifting of restrictions, but an awful lot of deaths happened at the start after the Nursing Homes were exposed, and there is going to be a blame game to be played there soon enough. Much better if that blame was shifted on to joe public rather than forcing ministers and civil servants answer the hard questions. So there is the political element that I was on about. There are also a lot of things overwhelming the health service and currently Covid 19 isn't one of them. Lack of funding, mismanagement going back decades, years of cuts due to austerity to pay an imaginary bill, not paying nurses their due, executive salaries, the list goes on. These are the things which are crippling the health service. But sure never mind all that, look at those bollixes in Killarney.
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0831/1162379-europe-covid-cases/
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/0831/1162379-europe-covid-cases/
Definitely not an 'I told you so' but it's got to be taken into consideration. Without proper testing there's no way to say either way.
Agreed with Astfygl there. Our health service is an embarassment and the virus has potential to show just how unprepared it is, just how underfunded and mismanaged. So in that sense, so much of what is happening is absolutely political.
Very high level stats. It would be interesting to see it broken down into age groups.
QuoteThe World Health Organization says data to date suggests 80% of Covid-19 infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical, requiring ventilation.
On a complete U-turn from all the mask discussion which I've been silently following here --
Has anybody read the news yesterday about the government talks surrounding live music and events. They're considering ways to let them go ahead if alcohol is not being served.
A massive bag of worms to get into which calls for the long post. Leaving aside the feelings many seem to have (justifiably so), which is that it's yet another instance of the govt. demonising drink and the pubs and venues they're failing to support -- there are other reasons this probably won't work.
The main one being cost. With the tax excise on alcohol in Ireland (i.e. drink is expensive here), venues make practically all of their money on the bar when hosting a live gig. Take that away, and they're left with trying to break even by venue rental alone. This would mean an increase in cost for hiring the venue for promoters/artists, putting immense pressure on them them sell out the venue (which rarely happens) to break even and cover costs...and at the end of it you have nobody really getting paid anything or making a loss, especially when you factor in social distancing needs and the smaller crowd capacity. It doesn't sound sustainable at all for any party involved.
Some are arguing that most of Europe has opened their pubs and venues without much issue, where as Ireland are way behind. I get this to a certain degree, but I can't ignore the fact that it probably points to our relationship with drink over here and how our nightlife is totally centered around it. There's already been accounts of video footage showing people getting langers and losing the run of themselves. The government are obviously using these examples (and house parties) as a sticking point to not bring nightlife back any time soon, while ignoring their own shortcomings in dealing with virus spreading and outbreaks in other aspects of society (meat factories, direct provision). But I think there has to be some logic to it also, that as a nation we can't really be trusted to adhere to restrictions if everyone is oiled up every weekend.
So, I guess, I'm wondering if ANYBODY has thought of alternative ways in which gigs could go ahead? Trying to find positive/creative/alternative opinions on how people think it could be done? I reckon the restricted numbers in venues -- all sitting at tables -- with alcohol being served to their table throughout the night is the only middle ground I can think of right now.
Or, do any of ye completely disagree with my previous points above and think gigs just should be going ahead as normal, booze and all - as it appears to be in other countries.
I'm going to a classical recital in the Triskel in Cork in a couple of weeks. The capacity is capped at 18 and it's a big place. For classical, where you're going to sit down and keep schtum anyway, I can see it working from a social distancing, if not a financial, perspective. For a rock or metal gig, I can't see how it works with social distancing. People act the bollox with a few jars in them and who's going to sit at tables at metal gigs?
I still can't see how 18 people in a place like the Triskel is sustainable anyway, but you've got to support what's there or it will disappear. Their cafe/snack bar will be closed, too, FWIW. It's a fucked situation.
Yeah that's pretty dire alright. The reason I brought it up here is because there was talk about it too on the FB group Four Four, which is all electronic music heads. So obviously they're fucked too if their idea of a good night to spend it dancing until all hours. Obviously for metal gigs nobody wants to sit down either or not drink.
But to be fair, if you just took the pints away from the equation for a minute...I know it's 'no craic', but I'd certainly go to a metal or a dance gig without booze ( there's always yokes for the latter ;) ) if it meant seeing a good live band and show again. I could live with it for a while at least.
So let's say we could live without the pints for the time being...it opens up the potential for younger audiences to attend (whether you see that as good or bad), and at the very least it'd be interesting to see how the crowd would engage without being fucked up.
But, what I can't get around is how it would actually work financially as I mentioned.
It's just fucked as Juggz mentioned, no matter how you look at it. It's hard to see one without the other (drink and gigs) from a financial OR cultural perspective. I also wholeheartedly agree with supporting what we have right now though, no matter how different or odd it may seem.
Was at The Bonk in the Kino 2 weeks ago. Normally holds 200, capacity reduced to 50 people at tables of between 2 and 5 people. Dimly lit with a light at each table. Turn on the light and get served. It was fucking glorious to be at a gig even though we were sitting down.
Quote from: Nazgûl on September 01, 2020, 05:06:01 PM
So let's say we could live without the pints for the time being...it opens up the potential for younger audiences to attend (whether you see that as good or bad), and at the very least it'd be interesting to see how the crowd would engage without being fucked up.
Didn't DME have a number of all age shows over the last decade or so I don't remember it having any significant impact on attendance. Under agers also means the insurance goes up as far as I know. No drink at shows will be a terrible idea because people will just neck cans and spirits before going into the venue and probably end up even more pissed than normal. As for drinking being centered around Irish nightlife it's the same in most countries the only reason drinking is so big in Ireland is because people really don't have a lot of other things to do.
214 cases, jesus. Defo heading for lockdown.
Ok, so if clubs/venues/bars are open in other countries right now and events able to happen without much fuss made, then I can only assume that alcohol -- or at least people who are drunk -- isn't aren't tearing the arse out of it and causing a total breakdown in social distancing and putting one another at significant risk.
So when it comes to here, I suppose I'm wondering if we should be given the same freedoms and be trusted that it won't turn into a shit show, or are the government correct in their caution and distrust surrounding drinking at gigs? There seems to be firm stances taken on both ends of the spectrum from what I'm reading online. I know I'm not adding too much by way of answers, just wondering what others thoughts are on all of this.
Is the government meant to police people drinking? It's a minefield tbh. Personally I don't think that's their job. I think we could do with probably more Garda on the streets and keep the pressure on pubs and venues that are profiting off of the booze culture. Tricky one though.
Quote from: Blackout on September 01, 2020, 07:07:33 PM
214 cases, jesus. Defo heading for lockdown.
Don't worry we can't afford it
Limerick and Tipperary cases on the up. Those jackeens coming down the M7.
Just over half of those are backlog clearances, I wouldn't panic on the high number just yet.
Regarding the pubs/gigs thing, I reckon it will be a long time before the hype dies down enough for anything resembling what we know as a gig or any of that, but folks are always coming up with ideas and it will sure be interesting to see how the likes of medium to large size touring bands circumvent the issue. The online gigs will only take the sting out of it for so long.
Actually I've had an idea. Could everyone wear something like scuba cylinders, or the ones the fire brigade use and have gigs without the fear of catching or spreading anything? The pit might be slightly more dangerous than usual, but eventually everyone would work out not to go in there and it would sort itself out after the first couple of hundred hospitalisations. The idea of no indoor close contact is that the air itself would be a potential source of infection so what needs to be done is to take away the potential for the gig goers to breathe any of that air. The bands will of course have to do the same, so unfortunately it will be slipknot or nothing for a while
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 01, 2020, 08:40:28 PM
Limerick and Tipperary cases on the up. Those jackeens coming down the M7.
The bollixes. Don't rubbish Tipp lads! Actually the image I have in my head of a rake of dubs hurtling down the M7 with the covid pissing out through the open windows of their cars is giving me great amusement here. Cannabis is indeed a hell of a drug
Quote from: Carnage on September 01, 2020, 08:52:40 PM
Just over half of those are backlog clearances, I wouldn't panic on the high number just yet.
The numbers always drop off of a Sunday and Monday before we get hit with the big one on the Tuesday. I predicted to someone in work earlier that today would be the day for the magic 200. I also said it several times during the last month, but sure none of that matters once I got it right this time.
I think what happens there is that the lads who aren't feeling the best don't want to have their weekend ruined, so don't turn up for a test until after they return home from the wild party in Killarney. Also, taking it on the Monday avoids the maximum amount of going to work.
I just can't wait to start a death metal band called Coronavirus.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0319/7091/8537/products/mockup-9832555e_720x.jpg)
Looks the part alright :laugh:
Quote from: Juggz on September 02, 2020, 06:49:29 AM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0319/7091/8537/products/mockup-9832555e_720x.jpg)
Do they do a cover version of Schools Out?
Quote from: Juggz on September 02, 2020, 06:49:29 AM
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0319/7091/8537/products/mockup-9832555e_720x.jpg)
Pfft. You can read that ffs.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8688793/Pregnant-mum-arrested-Facebook-post-inciting-coronavirus-protest.html
me wana banana and die in a fire...
Quote from: Juggz on September 01, 2020, 04:39:48 PM
I still can't see how 18 people in a place like the Triskel is sustainable anyway, but you've got to support what's there or it will disappear.
Fredz have been doing alright for decades!!!! :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
:laugh:
Quote from: mickO))) on September 03, 2020, 12:55:52 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8688793/Pregnant-mum-arrested-Facebook-post-inciting-coronavirus-protest.html
Wow, reading the text of the event she organised and it's actually very reasonable stuff. Ridiculous stuff indeed and very authoritarian. Gets back to the idea of the response being far more dangerous than the virus.
Ozzy on Andrew Watt in a recent interview
Quote What music have you been playing lately?
I'm trying to write something new with [Ordinary Man producer] Andrew [Watt], but he had Covid. He was very sick, and he still is. The thing about this fucking Covid thing is, I don't think they really know what they're fucking dealing with; it changes. One time, we're told it's harmful to older people; now it's also harmful to young kids. It's fucking weird.
But [Andrew] was one of the first ones to get it. And he's still kind of sick with it. He had a good day and a bad day, you know? It fucks your lungs up.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 03, 2020, 05:13:29 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on September 03, 2020, 12:55:52 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8688793/Pregnant-mum-arrested-Facebook-post-inciting-coronavirus-protest.html
Wow, reading the text of the event she organised and it's actually very reasonable stuff. Ridiculous stuff indeed and very authoritarian. Gets back to the idea of the response being far more dangerous than the virus.
Yeah few other videos going around from Melbourne as well. Saw one of a fellas house being raided because of a facebook post as well.
Here is an interview/ q and a, with Dr Marcus De Brun, who used to be on the medical council and is a bit critical of certain elements of how this is all playing out.
He doesn't seem to be getting involved in anything wild regarding theories or anything like that, just answering the questions as honestly as he can. Anyway it's worth a watch for anyone interested in looking beyond the headline and hearing a bit of an alternate view on things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeimhzK-4IQ&feature=emb_logo
Quote from: astfgyl on August 07, 2020, 03:34:14 PM
It's funny to see how with the rises in cases in the midlands that the talk is of localised lockdowns and "not ruling anything out", yet when Dublin and Cork were riddled with cases and fuck all anywhere else, the localised solution was dismissed out of hand.
Money talks as usual.
Then, this evening..
QuoteAsked about people being worried about a potential lockdown, particularly in Dublin, Dr Glynn said that the language of 'lockdown' is "really unhelpful".
:laugh:
Indeed it is! Terribly unhelpful.
Edit: And here:
(https://img.rasset.ie/0015251d-614.jpg?ratio=1.77)
Have some cold symptoms (sore throat, sinuses burning a bit, migraine), so for work I had to see the doctor and make an appointment for a test today. He also prescribed me a single whopper dose of vitamin D, and zinc to take nightly to keep the immune system active but, specifically, not over-active. Found it interesting to see what the first line interventions are now anyway.
That is interesting. A lot of the kids that my ones know have had the exact same over the last week. None of them have been referred for a test though. I was only speaking to one parent and they said the doctor just diagnosed it as strep throat over the phone and said no worries definitely not covid. It will be interesting to hear what the result of your test is.
It'll be a lack of testosterone.
:laugh: :laugh: Ffs Caoimhín..... :laugh:
This is flying around Facebook a bit, but I'm no statistician, so not sure if the claims are correct:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_04092020_website.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3C3tVFJRQv4xuiVF7Bkn1R4dIWPkxxVZsClg0IxG_1laaIinWSuJBq0rs
Page 11 seemingly says the total number of deaths is 1,777, and the total number of deaths with underlying conditions is 1,677. So Covid alone killed 100 people, mostly in their 80's?
There's probably more nuance to it than that, so it'd be good to hear it if so.
#SCAMdemic
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 08, 2020, 07:38:07 AM
:laugh: :laugh: Ffs Caoimhín..... :laugh:
As subtle as a knee into the soynads :laugh:
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 08, 2020, 06:21:39 AM
It'll be a lack of testosterone.
:laugh:
Whatever keeps my number of sprogs to one is good for me! :laugh:
:laugh:
There's always the back door too though. Although not every girl is up for a bit of pegging. :laugh:
Quote from: Bigmac on September 08, 2020, 08:05:47 AM
This is flying around Facebook a bit, but I'm no statistician, so not sure if the claims are correct:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_04092020_website.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3C3tVFJRQv4xuiVF7Bkn1R4dIWPkxxVZsClg0IxG_1laaIinWSuJBq0rs
Page 11 seemingly says the total number of deaths is 1,777, and the total number of deaths with underlying conditions is 1,677. So Covid alone killed 100 people, mostly in their 80's?
There's probably more nuance to it than that, so it'd be good to hear it if so.
The underlying conditions are pretty broad, obesity is classed as one so that would mean a quarter of all Irish people are high risk, asthma is another which would be another 10% of the population, give it take a bit of crossover
Quote from: Trev on September 08, 2020, 09:55:14 AM
The underlying conditions are pretty broad, obesity is classed as one so that would mean a quarter of all Irish people are high risk
Sunday fry ups are the real virus.
Pubs open on the 21st,about fuckin time!,the two meals on a night out was killing me!
Quote from: Bigmac on September 08, 2020, 08:05:47 AM
This is flying around Facebook a bit, but I'm no statistician, so not sure if the claims are correct:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_04092020_website.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3C3tVFJRQv4xuiVF7Bkn1R4dIWPkxxVZsClg0IxG_1laaIinWSuJBq0rs
Page 11 seemingly says the total number of deaths is 1,777, and the total number of deaths with underlying conditions is 1,677. So Covid alone killed 100 people, mostly in their 80's?
There's probably more nuance to it than that, so it'd be good to hear it if so.
Of course the picture will become clearer over time, but once the media frenzy (of which I've never seen the likes) dies down I think the actual facts will show something along the lines of what that report has to say. Saying that, it's easy for me to sit and type that now, when nobody had a clue how this would pan out in the beginning. It has been severely over hyped though from the start and I'm fairly sure that world governments have been sold much the same hype as the rest of us in the last few months. Trump's assessment of it all as a bad flu is starting to look a little more level headed as time goes on. In the video interview with Dr De Brun I posted yesterday, he points out how odd it is as a Lefty, to see that the only people going against the accepted narrative on this virus are the right wing in an odd change of tack, and the leftists are the ones pushing for censorship and strict following of the rules. Pretty funny.
Quote from: Paul keohane on September 08, 2020, 01:22:01 PM
Pubs open on the 21st,about fuckin time!,the two meals on a night out was killing me!
I know a fella who is a right jakey, and he usually doesn't eat for days on end when he is on the sauce but he has never looked better since he started eating 3 dinners a day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc5ZHFtcnXU&pp=wgIECgIIAQ%3D%3D&feature=push-fr&attr_tag=dtDa24suAElSG0J5%3A6
Interesting breakdown here.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 08, 2020, 02:53:44 PM
Of course the picture will become clearer over time, but once the media frenzy (of which I've never seen the likes) dies down I think the actual facts will show something along the lines of what that report has to say. Saying that, it's easy for me to sit and type that now, when nobody had a clue how this would pan out in the beginning. It has been severely over hyped though from the start and I'm fairly sure that world governments have been sold much the same hype as the rest of us in the last few months. Trump's assessment of it all as a bad flu is starting to look a little more level headed as time goes on.
Yeah as time goes on it really does seem like it was way over hyped, but we won't really know until the dust fully settles.
My gripe is that because of the actions taken, my Ma had an essential operation pushed back by months, and was left being fed by a machine in the gaff over the course of it all.
She eventually had the operation a few weeks ago and came home, but is back in hospital now.
While she's in there, I can't even see her. All because of a minuscule number of deaths.
I doubt we are the only family to have been affected in such a way, so it'll be interesting to see the true extent of suspending other medical treatments through the duration of it.
Overall, reading that report, I can't see a justification for why that was delayed, and also why she currently has to be in there alone, without any family support.
I get that anger can certainly skew my interpretation of it, but still though, what a load of bollocks.
I understand your frustration given how things appear at the moment. But now, try to imagine the absolute outrage if even a relatively small number of people went into hospital for otherwise routine operations, caught covid while there, and ended up dying on a ventilation machine in ICU. That's the wager hospital admissions policy is faced with.
Yeah I get you, it's a no win situation really.
It just appears from reading that report, the deadliness of it all was way overestimated, so there certainly could have been a more flexible approach taken had we not been whipped into an apocalyptic frenzy.
I do see your point though, a very hard call to make, especially when things were still developing.
In terms of nosocomial considerations (i.e. transmission and severity of infection specifically within medical establishments), it's very hard to say whether it was over-estimated. What you've reported there can quite easily be read as; if you're vulnerable, covid will knock you out. That's the flip-side of the often recklessness with which people were brushing aside the fact that everyone dying had a co-morbidity: if you're an in-patient at a hospital, you very likely have a co-morbidity! Maybe one that has been identified as particularly lethal in combination with covid, maybe not...or maybe just not yet!
Honestly do feel for your ma though; I'd be racked with feelings of guilt in that situation, and not able to do anything about it. Are you able to send her stuff? Cards, letters??
Yeah it's really hard to tell, so I hope a bit more time also gives a bit more clarity. Just seems like such a clusterfuck, and the anger definitely puts the blinkers on when it comes to interpreting these things. I get that it's more complicated than that.
I just give her a buzz a couple of times a day. Not sure about sending stuff in but I could ask about it. She's not one for technology, so just has a brick phone, meaning no videos calls or the usual stuff you'd do in such circumstances.
Appreciate the concern though, cheers!
If she's old school, ask if you can send her a card or a letter, or even if they could print something you send them and hand it to her if they don't want stuff coming in from outside. The lost art of letter writing, y'know, could lift her spirits for days!
Not a bad idea at all man! I'll come up with something so, fair play!
Quote from: Bigmac on September 08, 2020, 04:04:52 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 08, 2020, 02:53:44 PM
Of course the picture will become clearer over time, but once the media frenzy (of which I've never seen the likes) dies down I think the actual facts will show something along the lines of what that report has to say. Saying that, it's easy for me to sit and type that now, when nobody had a clue how this would pan out in the beginning. It has been severely over hyped though from the start and I'm fairly sure that world governments have been sold much the same hype as the rest of us in the last few months. Trump's assessment of it all as a bad flu is starting to look a little more level headed as time goes on.
Yeah as time goes on it really does seem like it was way over hyped, but we won't really know until the dust fully settles.
My gripe is that because of the actions taken, my Ma had an essential operation pushed back by months, and was left being fed by a machine in the gaff over the course of it all.
She eventually had the operation a few weeks ago and came home, but is back in hospital now.
While she's in there, I can't even see her. All because of a minuscule number of deaths.
I doubt we are the only family to have been affected in such a way, so it'll be interesting to see the true extent of suspending other medical treatments through the duration of it.
Overall, reading that report, I can't see a justification for why that was delayed, and also why she currently has to be in there alone, without any family support.
I get that anger can certainly skew my interpretation of it, but still though, what a load of bollocks.
I don't think your view of it is skewed at all, and I hope somewhere down the line one of the outcomes of all of this is to wake people up to the media in general and be aware of just how influential they are in their attempts to mislead everyone. Load of bollocks indeed. I think in the future we are going to see a lot more situations like this though with the saturation coverage of everything. Sure look at the likes of sky news with their breaking news alerts and the like. The cunts are only waiting for something like this to use to put the shits up everyone so we can all stay glued to it and buy products from their advertisers while we're at it. And now here we are, economies decimated, head spinning amounts of money invested, vested interests abound, government gone so all in that they can't even row back. Sure imagine if they came out tomorrow and said fuck it was overblown (overblown is probably not the right term there, more misdirected) how all the people who couldn't have a proper funeral for their loved ones would feel, for one example. I'm still convinced there is a massive game of follow the money to be played here which would lead to a few answers as to why this has panned out the way it has. again having said all that, the approach of utmost caution was undoubtedly the right one for starters but now seems a bit much.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 08, 2020, 04:19:18 PM
I understand your frustration given how things appear at the moment. But now, try to imagine the absolute outrage if even a relatively small number of people went into hospital for otherwise routine operations, caught covid while there, and ended up dying on a ventilation machine in ICU. That's the wager hospital admissions policy is faced with.
That is indeed a good point. The fear of the outrage drives a lot of things.
Yeah I'd say there's certainly an element of never letting a good crisis go to waste, so someone somewhere is benefiting. Might need to move that to the tin foil hat thread though.
This goes into what I mentioned earlier:
https://www.thejournal.ie/how-many-people-have-died-from-covid-19-in-ireland-5198763-Sep2020/
The inclusion of QAnon in the article just seems a bit "please don't question anything, and if you know anyone who is, please call them a conspiracy fruitloop".
Just seems kind of out of place, but I'm probably just grasping for things to rant about again.
Yeah I just read that there, and I would fall between the two stools on that one. I do think that 1778 people have died and had SARS Cov-2 present in their bodies at the time. I don't think it was the primary cause of death in all of them, but I think the number of 100 deaths from it is a bit of a twist of logic. My guess is that it's somewhere in between but I do think it is overestimated. It's like when the report every evening says there are 59 patients in hospital with covid. They don't really bother telling everyone that the hospitals are testing basically every admission as a matter of course and whether any of those admissions are due to the likes of a broken leg or other causes. Not saying they all have broken legs either, just pointing out how misleading figures can be when massaged the right way.
I really don't like the equating of questioning the covid situation and response with conspiracy all the time either. It seems to me to be just a tactic to discredit the other side of the discussion and kills dissent for the most part, as you have mentioned there with the QAnon. The Journal is a bit mock anyway.
Here's a question on a different note to my usual ranting..
Why is it that children are seen as not passing it on to adults so much? Like do their coughs and sneezes and whatnot not contain the same virus as an adult's would? Is it because they are less symptomatic in general or what is it. I must research the info on that one a bit myself, but what does anyone else think of that?
Wasn't some guy on the radio recently saying that he went to get tested and after waiting ages he asked how long he'd have to wait and was told "Two and a half hours."
He upped and left because he wasn't arsed waiting and two days later he got a letter saying he'd tested positive. :laugh:
Fucking hell, what a scam... :laugh:
On the 21st are they doing away with the meals bullshit? I think the option of food in a pub is good but it should be an option and not forced on you especially when you don't eat whatever slop they are offering.
Quote from: mickO))) on September 08, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
On the 21st are they doing away with the meals bullshit? I think the option of food in a pub is good but it should be an option and not forced on you especially when you don't eat whatever slop they are offering.
Yeah no food,the 105 min time limit still applies where there is a distance of 1 meter between tables,and unlimited time where there is 2 meters between tables .
I dont know how the fuck they can police that,my experience the last few weeks (in Cork city centre) has been pretty good,bars generally adhering to the distance between tables,but not overly enforcing the time limit.Once you book a table from 8pm your just left there for the night.Theres a pile of outdoor seating in Cork now,thought it looked great the other night.
There'll be regular checks from the Gardy for a week or two, then it'll be ignored unless there's rowdiness.
Quote from: Paul keohane on September 08, 2020, 09:02:54 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on September 08, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
On the 21st are they doing away with the meals bullshit? I think the option of food in a pub is good but it should be an option and not forced on you especially when you don't eat whatever slop they are offering.
Yeah no food,the 105 min time limit still applies where there is a distance of 1 meter between tables,and unlimited time where there is 2 meters between tables .
I dont know how the fuck they can police that,my experience the last few weeks (in Cork city centre) has been pretty good,bars generally adhering to the distance between tables,but not overly enforcing the time limit.Once you book a table from 8pm your just left there for the night.Theres a pile of outdoor seating in Cork now,thought it looked great the other night.
Yeah 8 seems to be the time to book if you want stay until close. A few of us going on an all dayer this Saturday and we have a pub booked that is gonna let us stay there for most of the day and they have decent food as well.
A new pub opened up a few months ago where I live its owned by a guards daughter most nights you can still see people inside drinking after 1am just like some of the other new rules they don't seem to apply to everyone.
I wonder with a lot of the pubs why didn't they just get in a pizza oven using some of the restart grant money available and be serving drink all along instead of waiting? I know space is an issue for a good portion of them, but a lot that have the doors closed could have surely done something along those lines. Funny you mention about the Garda pubs as well. The local garda and teacher pub in this town is hopping every night of the week no problem and the blind eye is turned all the time. It makes me wonder how seriously the ones enforcing the rules actually take them when it comes down to it. Stuff like that must surely be undermining efforts to get the public to buy into the new normal as well.
On a different note, I'm always picking holes in all of this on here, but it struck me this morning that I could maybe have more empathy for the old folks who are having the shit frightened out of them every day on the telly and radio. Like the news makes out to be on their side and reporting what they need to know and the 80 year olds can't be expected to be online researching and looking for holes in the argument all the time and it must be quite bad for them to be constantly bombarded with fear inducing info everywhere they look. I get annoyed by the rules a fair bit but a lot of these lads must be generally terrified going about their daily business and now I think about it I feel pretty bad for them. No one is calling out on the news that if you are very old, the likelihood is that you will survive in 8 or 9 out of 10 cases unless you are fucked altogether. Just a thought..
Quote from: astfgyl on September 09, 2020, 09:34:37 AM
I wonder with a lot of the pubs why didn't they just get in a pizza oven using some of the restart grant money available and be serving drink all along instead of waiting? I know space is an issue for a good portion of them, but a lot that have the doors closed could have surely done something along those lines
Thought that myself. There's a tiny pub in Enniscorthy that has a chipper just up the road from it, so they've just been going up there and getting a few pizzas and bags of chips to do the food
3 deaths today.
I think we need a new approach. I was having a chat with a mate and suggested maybe enacting a law making it mandatory for non- essential businesses to offer the work from home option and to offer Grants for businesses to do so. It seems more and more biz owners are making people return to the office which is ridiculous particularly when you can do the same tasks from home.
I'll be interested, with things opening up, and essentially transitioning to some version of the Swedish approach, to see if the public can police themselves. I don't mean shouting at people who don't comply or anything, just will enough people pay heed to the basic advice for it to make a difference?
Money always talks, and I feel that in the absence of a cure or preventative that more and more governments are going to be looking to Sweden and thinking can they also take the path of lesser economic damage and a more carrot than stick approach to public safety. We have been saying here for quite a while that the Irish won't comply if not forced to, but we are going to see the answer in the next while I think. The switch to opening back up a bit will inevitably lead to another peak, but should also taper off again after a few weeks if compliance is high.
I would say the pressure on the government must be at an all time high right now. Lock it back down and half the people go mad, open it up and half the people go mad. A real no win situation for them.
I'm very conflicted at times with this whole thing. I'll follow the rules, I get it, but then I see the piss taking going on...the Garda pubs, The Nancy Pelosi's of this world. I also think they simply expect to eradicate the virus and it's never likely.
Anyway, latest story from Spain. This girl had tested positive for Covid and felt so good she decided to go surfing, though I belive she was off work as a result of the test. What's the real story? I'm sure the media will paint it in a million shades of shit before we find the whole truth of it.
But here's the vid. Again, whatever about her job, I have to ask myself if I'm comfortable with seeing someone arrested like this for splashing about in water when I walk by bars at 7 in the morning here and see groups of generally male alcoholics tucking into their first beers of the day, which they're perfectly entitled to do in fairness. She's putting people at risk is the idea, again I get that..again, conflicted.
https://youtu.be/Y6hn4DRjgA0
Quote from: Pedrito on September 10, 2020, 06:54:58 AM
I'm very conflicted at times with this whole thing. I'll follow the rules, I get it, but then I see the piss taking going on...the Garda pubs, The Nancy Pelosi's of this world. I also think they simply expect to eradicate the virus and it's never likely.
Anyway, latest story from Spain. This girl had tested positive for Covid and felt so good she decided to go surfing, though I belive she was off work as a result of the test. What's the real story? I'm sure the media will paint it in a million shades of shit before we find the whole truth of it.
But here's the vid. Again, whatever about her job, I have to ask myself if I'm comfortable with seeing someone arrested like this for splashing about in water when I walk by bars at 7 in the morning here and see groups of generally male alcoholics tucking into their first beers of the day, which they're perfectly entitled to do in fairness. She's putting people at risk is the idea, again I get that..again, conflicted.
https://youtu.be/Y6hn4DRjgA0
What I'd like to know is how they knew she was there? Did someone snitch or did they track her on her phone? Maybe she has to wear a yellow star?
Either way, this is all very scary shit and the governments are being allowed away with it.
Time to put a stop to this bullshit. :abbath:
It's Better To Die On Your Feet Than Live On Your Knees.!! :abbath:
#SCAMdemic
So...now the sea has coronavirus??? Ostras!!!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 10, 2020, 08:58:28 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on September 10, 2020, 06:54:58 AM
I'm very conflicted at times with this whole thing. I'll follow the rules, I get it, but then I see the piss taking going on...the Garda pubs, The Nancy Pelosi's of this world. I also think they simply expect to eradicate the virus and it's never likely.
Anyway, latest story from Spain. This girl had tested positive for Covid and felt so good she decided to go surfing, though I belive she was off work as a result of the test. What's the real story? I'm sure the media will paint it in a million shades of shit before we find the whole truth of it.
But here's the vid. Again, whatever about her job, I have to ask myself if I'm comfortable with seeing someone arrested like this for splashing about in water when I walk by bars at 7 in the morning here and see groups of generally male alcoholics tucking into their first beers of the day, which they're perfectly entitled to do in fairness. She's putting people at risk is the idea, again I get that..again, conflicted.
https://youtu.be/Y6hn4DRjgA0
What I'd like to know is how they knew she was there? Did someone snitch or did they track her on her phone? Maybe she has to wear a yellow star?
Either way, this is all very scary shit and the governments are being allowed away with it.
Time to put a stop to this bullshit. :abbath:
It's Better To Die On Your Feet Than Live On Your Knees.!! :abbath:
Someone called the gestapo on her, someone that knows her. Pff dunno what to think about it. In cuffs for breathing
Quarantine at home when you get the virus? Seems reasonable.
While I agree it's concerning how they located/became aware (though most likely comes down to someone snitching, which in fairness lads, is nothing new), it's not like she was arrested "just because"
Fairly fucking simple, if you know you have corona, the last thing you want to do is go out to a public space. That's pretty much been the guideline agreed on everywhere since day one and of all the restrictions going, it seems fairly reasonable. Now, if she was just out at the beach, outdoors, drove there in her own car, didn't go anywhere else, then yeah, practically the risk is low. Plenty of "if's" though and open to exploitation by pisstakers, hence the rule.
Freedom this, freedom that, how about taking the most basic step of responsibility? Can't say I have a whole load of sympathy for her, even if I DO think there's a genuine point to be made RE: surveillance. There's been plenty questionable situations and decisions made, this one to me at least seems the most clear cut.
It says in the video it was "an individual" who reported her to the local police; who knows who...possibly an elderly neighbour, a busy-body, a jilted ex, the Olentzero...
Yeah I think she was taking the piss most definitely. The optics don't look great but that's the world we live in now. Everything taken at face value.
Oh it's harsh, no doubt, and I'm not a fan of the snitching business (you know there's a section of society absolutely reveling in it). At the same time, I think a quarantine when you've tested positive is about as fair as we can get in this shitshow (provided of course you have the financial support etc).
Yeah this isn't a case of "government = bad". You test positive, you become a highly contagious vector, ergo you stay the fuck at home. People are fucking clowns, honestly.
Yes, but some of them are sexy Spanish surfing clowns, which is what makes it difficult to think straight.
I think her situation is an example of shit gone too far. If she gets arrested for going out with the covid, how long before someone gets arrested for going out with the flu? sure passing that on could potentially finish someone off as well.
Seriously.
People are fucking clowns, but only for buying into this so readily. Especially now that we see with our own eyes what the actual story is.
Anyone tell me how many have died of flu the last few weeks? Maybe they should start announcing that every evening too. Sure why not get a new news channel going 24 hours a day reading out the numbers of deaths from all causes and pressuring governments to be seen to be doing something about them all. They can mandate everyone to go out with their whole fucking bodies wrapped in bubble wrap or some shit in case they fall and clog up the health service.
Anybody who thinks that this thing can ever be stopped other than fizzling out of its' own accord (which probably won't happen) is deluded. It can't be done.
Think about it. Really think about it. So some delivery driver has it and doesn't know and heads all over the country with it, or someone is in a parcel distribution centre getting it all over everything for delivery countrywide for example. Or any other number of hypothetical situations one can think of. Impossible.
She took the piss but cuffing her like that on a beach, literally sending out a troop of people to hunt her down seems like lunacy. I'm conflicted as fuck about it tbh. If she hadn't been caught, nobody would be any the wiser and it's open to debate whether she would have infected anyone. She's obviosuly not feeling anything from the virus and the human reaction would be to enjoy a day off and get out of the house and do something healthy like surfing. Does she get a criminal record? Is it her 'fault' that she has covid. A lot of the questions are almost philosophical because the 'reality' of it all just seems so debatable. Lads strolling by with their surfboards, no masks on, as she's led away in cuffs. People lying on the beach in groups. Surreal.
Also, she's a fine yoke. Would have ridden to her rescue if she had only called out my name :abbath:
Quote from: Pedrito on September 10, 2020, 02:44:36 PM
Also, she's a fine yoke. Would have ridden to her rescue if she had only called out my name :abbath:
Yes, we must not lose sight of that in the midst of all this madness :laugh:
If she was busted they could lock her up and throw away the key. Be doing us all a favour
.
She should be arrested for our impure thoughts alone. :laugh:
I reckon there's at least a page 3 option going to be handed to her. Swimsuit snd handcuffs..jaysis. Could be the career change she was hoping for!
Haven't dipped into the figures for a while now, but - not counting San Marino and Andorra, whose sample sizes skew statistics - Spain has the third highest per capita death rate for COVID globally, behind Peru and Belgium, with a 7-day moving average that has been steadily increasing over the last month. Plus, twice as many people in ICU than France, despite smaller population, indicating that the trend may well continue that way for a while. How's that for a wave to ride!
And where does muggins here have to go on Saturday? :abbath:
Jesus that's bleak re Spain.
Re the nonsense Green list approach, the son of a girl at work cancelled Malta and went to Greece instead for a non-essential holiday. The place was riddled over so he decided to get a test when he got back, despite feeling fine. Turns out he has it but his family are all clear, albeit in quarantine until 21st Sept. So but for his precaution on return from a green list country he'd be going around spreading to the community right off the plane. Madness.
The grading system on Tuesday will be interesting. Cork only has 7 cases per 100,000 so hopefully things ease up, here, e.g. for a Communion the Saturday after where it will only be 4 of us at a meal (a table of 6 doesn't allow us to bring all the grandparents, but we can bring 6 into our house for a total of 10 in a smaller space??).
Re Dublin going to 6 people from 2 households instead of 3, it makes no sense as surely you'd be better off reducing numbers. Anyway hopefully the 9 month plan including grades will sort out these anomalies.
That foreign travel stuff is the part that gets my back up. That lad knew the risks going, goes anyway, comes back and how many people must he have walked past before he finally decides he might have it? How are they ever going to get rid of it if you can drag yourself half way across.the world, get locked, shift 5 or 6 English birds and just saunter back into the country. Makes zero sense.
Lads. None of it will work. We can analyse the figures all day long, we can lock down, we can open up, we can distance, sanitise, mask up, keep down contacts, ban foreign travel altogether, use green lists and whatever else but none of it will work in any meaningful fashion other than to delay the inevitable. And the case to be made for doing all that is not to overwhelm the health service, which is a noble concept but not a runner in the long run.
I said a few posts ago to think about it. Really think about it though: A virus that shows no symptoms in half the people that get it is not going to be picked up in everyone who has it, contact tracing or not. If every person with it was symptomatic there might be a slim chance but as it is, not a hope. We are all deluding ourselves with this new normal and the only end result will be the destruction of civil liberties and what will be for all intents and purposes a police state and everyone turned against each other, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany style.
There is no real argument against that either, when anyone who wants to can look and see it all unfold with their own two eyes. I'm not even knocking anyone who thinks it all might work on the promise of the magic vaccine, and I even thought it might all work at one stage. But then I really thought about it. All the locking down over the last few months has been for fuck all, because look where we are, back at square one except the country is headed for financial collapse.
Pity all the coin blown on lockdown and restrictions wasn't spent on a new hospital or a lot more intensive care beds. That might have actually done something. Ah well
Seems an odd point in the game to throw up your hands. We're not back at square one at all; the virus, in Ireland anyway, seems to be slowly working its way through, let's say, the more carefree of the population, while the more vulnerable seem to be taking greater precautions. Result? The health service isn't overrun, there's hardly anyone in ICU, the death rate has fallen to essentially 0, despite at least a month of increased confirmed positive cases, and things actually are starting to open up after the all-out panic at the beginning. You seem to have in mind - and I don't blame you, since the media feeds into this - that the aim is to achieve 0% population transmission. That's not it; the aim is to achieve as close to 0% hospital admissions as possible.
I fully understand the aim, and as I said it's a noble intention. My problem with it is that it just isn't going to work long term and unfortunately the road to hell is paved with good intentions, so maybe it will keep the admissions down while destroying everything else in the process. It's all well and good keeping the covid admissions down while 1/5 of the population is on a waiting list for all sorts of everything else. This thing can't be stopped because it's spread too far to be contained. We will have to live with it and get on with it and accept it like any other circulating virus that we can't stop or trace. It will simply have to run its' course in the absence of a cure. Quarantining healthy people is not a sustainable situation. It would also be interesting to find out how many folks went to hospital with covid out of the pure fear it generates as much as how broke up they were.
And fuck it yeah I am throwing my hands up. I've had enough of this shit. I don't even know of anyone who had it outside of a member here and another member's father had it. The reason we are not seeing the deaths is because the damage is long done in the nursing homes. I don't even think there is any point playing the blame game for that one either because no one saw it coming and we all know it was well embedded here before anyone noticed. A classic case of the horse and the stable door. So now we have tightened up those vulnerable settings and we need to just get on with it. Do we all hide from the flu every year? And yeah that is a bit apples and oranges, but it is important to realise that there have been more admissions for influenza this year than covid, although far less deaths and far less ICU admissions, but still there they are clogging up the beds that could be used for other things. Selfish bastards getting sick like that.
The health service is becoming like one of those Good Rooms that people have in their gaffs and never fucking sit in them.
Edit: And why isn't poverty declared as a pandemic? Sure look at the health outcomes of that, and now the covid response is going to drive even more people into it. And starvation as well. Lots of folks dying of that for a long time, and the cure staring us all in the face. Black lives matter and all that, unless they happen to be in sub saharan countries, in which case they have been left to starve forever. But sure fuck em I suppose, no point sorting that out as there are no massive profits to be generated because they have fuck all and won't be able to pay for the salvation. Anyway we won't be able to afford to save them now. Clean water and sanitary living conditions in third world countries? Yeah right. Take the africans out of it and look closer to home and I wonder how many in this country are subject to poor health outcomes due to poverty and public health waiting lists. Forget about them though there is only the one game in town now and a pot of gold for whichever massive corporation steps in to save us all from it.
Let's end this madness. See you's tomorrow, 2pm @ the Custom House Dublin.
https://facebook.com/events/s/time-for-change/3275445815869395/?ti=as
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 11, 2020, 05:00:41 PM
Let's end this madness. See you's tomorrow, 2pm @ the Custom House Dublin.
https://facebook.com/events/s/time-for-change/3275445815869395/?ti=as
Unfortunately, I have work tomorrow. And if I can't get off for the young lad's hurling final, I won't be able to get off for the protest. I'm iffy about the protests anyway because I think they conflate too many other general gripes with the government with the major issue at hand. Saying that, I fully support people's right to protest and freedom of speech and I hope it goes well enough for the government and media to sit up and take notice. RTE's reporting of the figures should be a bit of fun if nothing else. I also hope the protesters wear masks and observe proper physical distancing as not doing so would only give ammunition to those who would wish to discredit it.
QuoteThe "Time for Change campaign continues" as Yellow Vest Ireland prepare to take to the Streets of Dublin once again on the 12th September 2020
Assembly will be at the Historical Customs House Dublin at 2pm and will depart at 2.45pm sharp.
Bring your Tricolours and your Yellow Vest as we unite for the day to defend freedom, protect our civil liberties and our human rights.
We all know by now that the corruption across the Irish government and the establishment is endemic and systemic and it must end.
Soooo...what exactly is about? Just vague references to freedom and corruption, no real stated aims they hope to accomplish, nothing specific they want to change...guessing its just Gemma O'doherty gagging for more publicity
I sincerely hope this protest becomes an outbreak hotspot for these fucking dopes.
Or maybe I don't because they cunts will precisely the type to go around spreading it.
It's stopped the overloading of the (Irish) healthcare system and if we keep at this rate it will continue to do so until such time an effective vaccine is developed.
That's the only way out of this mess.
Quote from: Trev on September 11, 2020, 06:10:58 PM
QuoteThe "Time for Change campaign continues" as Yellow Vest Ireland prepare to take to the Streets of Dublin once again on the 12th September 2020
Assembly will be at the Historical Customs House Dublin at 2pm and will depart at 2.45pm sharp.
Bring your Tricolours and your Yellow Vest as we unite for the day to defend freedom, protect our civil liberties and our human rights.
We all know by now that the corruption across the Irish government and the establishment is endemic and systemic and it must end.
Soooo...what exactly is about? Just vague references to freedom and corruption, no real stated aims they hope to accomplish, nothing specific they want to change...guessing its just Gemma O'doherty gagging for more publicity
That's pretty much my own issue with it, it's just a general gripes fest and no way of knowing what the aim is. Rakes of different and unrelated things thrown together. It's a real pity that the voice of dissent is seemingly represented by the likes of that shitehawk instead of someone reasonable and intelligent.
Quote from: Ducky on September 11, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
That's the only way out of this mess.
In this thread you make me want to tear my fucking hair out but I've always thought you came across as sound everywhere else on the board and the old board as well, so I am going to leave this video here and it might take a bit of the pharma company driven hysteria out of you, should you choose to watch it. There is a much simpler way out of this, and that is a sense of perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac
Quote from: Ducky on September 11, 2020, 06:33:38 PM
I sincerely hope this protest becomes an outbreak hotspot for these fucking dopes.
Or maybe I don't because they cunts will precisely the type to go around spreading it.
Stop being such a bitch.
"Stop being a bitch" says the guy whinging about having to put a small bit of cloth on your face 🙄
The yellow vests and their ilk, cringe. Bring your flags for attacking people if the opportunity arises I suppose, and maybe shout RATM slogans while ye're at it.
If I had my way the vesties and their ilk would get a free trial of being starved of oxygen for a few hours to sample what 6m have endured for some considerably longer periods. Find out if it's really worth getting so upset about what are minimal intrusions on life, compared to the alternative for others and maybe even yourself when it comes to it.
It's 920,000 ugly deaths, despite precautions, so the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
The paranoia about this virus is hard to understand, especially re pharma companies when others touted are looking to line their own pockets via Patreon for promoting the alternative view.
It has only been 6 months with what really are minor inconveniences on the whole so get over yereselves and try a bit of patience maybe.
Just as an aside, those that have "recovered" aren't necessarily so. We don't know the long term damage, but to a large amount there will likely be respiratory problems in the long term. One of my friends, who's 40, doesn't smoke, isn't on the batter too often, got it about a month ago and he's still floored.
I can understand completely what you are saying about the minor inconveniences we must endure vs the death that people are getting from covid. That is entirely correct. You could also make that same argument about pretty much any death in the world though if you spin it the right way. The problem is that the situation is being over hyped and any actual sober analysis of the figures is getting buried in the "alternative" section. I would honestly encourage you to look at the evidence presented in that video vs what has been done as a result of trying to dealing with the current situation. I felt like you do at the start of all this, and then I realised bit by bit that something wasn't quite right. The evidence does not support the current state of world hysteria at all. I'd be surprised if you had looked at the presentation given in that video before you wrote your comment there, but I won't say you are wrong for not hearing both sides of the story. There is a wealth of evidence to show that what we are doing isn't making a blind bit of difference beyond making us feel like we are doing something. Also I'd like to point out that as well as all those starved of oxygen, there are millions a day starved of food and water, which are also essential for staying alive. Virtue signal much?
And if you think the pharma companies don't deserve an extremely critical eye cast on their practices, you are simply a bit innocent, which is no crime.
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 11, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
Just as an aside, those that have "recovered" aren't necessarily so. We don't know the long term damage, but to a large amount there will likely be respiratory problems in the long term. One of my friends, who's 40, doesn't smoke, isn't on the batter too often, got it about a month ago and he's still floored.
How did he manage to get it, or does he know at all?
There is a lot of evidence for the post covid syndrome mounting as time goes on, but unfortunately that doesn't mean the current situation of attempting to deal with the problem is actually doing anything other than creating a whole host of other damaging situations. The most unfortunate thing of all is that all of this is being done with the best of intentions.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 11, 2020, 08:54:10 PM
I can understand completely what you are saying about the minor inconveniences we must endure vs the death that people are getting from covid. That is entirely correct. You could also make that same argument about pretty much any death in the world though if you spin it the right way. The problem is that the situation is being over hyped and any actual sober analysis of the figures is getting buried in the "alternative" section. I would honestly encourage you to look at the evidence presented in that video vs what has been done as a result of trying to dealing with the current situation. I felt like you do at the start of all this, and then I realised bit by bit that something wasn't quite right. The evidence does not support the current state of world hysteria at all. I'd be surprised if you had looked at the presentation given in that video before you wrote your comment there, but I won't say you are wrong for not hearing both sides of the story. There is a wealth of evidence to show that what we are doing isn't making a blind bit of difference beyond making us feel like we are doing something. Also I'd like to point out that as well as all those starved of oxygen, there are millions a day starved of food and water, which are also essential for staying alive. Virtue signal much?
And if you think the pharma companies don't deserve an extremely critical eye cast on their practices, you are simply a bit innocent, which is no crime.
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 11, 2020, 08:41:23 PM
Just as an aside, those that have "recovered" aren't necessarily so. We don't know the long term damage, but to a large amount there will likely be respiratory problems in the long term. One of my friends, who's 40, doesn't smoke, isn't on the batter too often, got it about a month ago and he's still floored.
How did he manage to get it, or does he know at all?
There is a lot of evidence for the post covid syndrome mounting as time goes on, but unfortunately that doesn't mean the current situation of attempting to deal with the problem is actually doing anything other than creating a whole host of other damaging situations. The most unfortunate thing of all is that all of this is being done with the best of intentions.
He's a social worker who deals with alcos and drug addicts so he figures he coulda got it off one of them. Another fella working with him also got it around the same time but I guess it's hard to be sure of the source. He was best man at my wedding a week before he got infected so at least the timing didn't affect me at all. Silver linings n all that.
You sure got lucky there. Well hopefully him and everyone else suffering the after effects of covid do go on to be as well as ever before.
I'd say any spike at the moment is due to schools going back. How anyone thinks having millions of kids supposedly staying in bubbles and then a certain percentage not going home and hugging granny is never going to happen is beyond me.
I've heard bad reports about what happens when you get it. There's no doubt that it sucks major ass. The major question though is if the response justifies the actions that are being implemented and that is so unbelievably impossible to quantify that for the most part people are just going with what feels right to them.
Again, if we're in the same type of trend this time 6 months do we keep going wearing masks and sitting 2 metres apart? A whole year of this when people in the past survived much worse? Again, I have no answer. My gut tells me there's major overreaction taking place, some people are revelling in the bad news story as we saw in the crisis aswell, but that's just my gut as previously stated.
All that said, I'd hate to get the fuckin thing so it's a pure balls of a situation.
Yeah, I'd fair hate to get it, too. It's meant to be right bad by all accounts. I don't wish it on anyone no matter how critical I get on the response.
Other than that I have the same gut feeling that you describe. I don't blame anyone who doesn't feel the same though because they all have their own good reasons for doing so, and I don't think any of the general public on either side of the response debate are having their opinion on it with anything other than the best of intentions.
I think we might be wearing masks and distancing in 6 more months. On paper anyway. I don't feel that I will be doing it out of anything other than avoiding the hassle of not doing it though, and I also think a time will come where I won't even be willing to play along at all even for a quiet life.
It was so difficult and time-consuming trying to get an appointment for a test, even with a prescription saying "Symptomatic Case", that I just gave up. Feeling grand now, and it probably was just some other infection, but things are still totally fucked here with the testing. The institute where I work has all the gear necessary to run the PCRs, but neither we nor any of our neighbours on campus are being mobilized, yet the waiting lists for tests are up to over a week.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 11, 2020, 02:52:36 PMWe are all deluding ourselves with this new normal and the only end result will be the destruction of civil liberties and what will be for all intents and purposes a police state and everyone turned against each other, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany style.
I feel like there's a massive, and I mean a really fucken huge, gap in logical exposition there, like there are several substantial paragraphs full of models, examples and details omitted. Please, enlighten me. How do we start at a holding period of simple social distancing and the like and end up in death camps? That Australian young one getting busted? Simply, if you know you have this virus and you go out to play, you're a cunt, pure and simple. That still doesn't explain how we end up in the gas chamber as the only end result. Please help me understand this perspective.
The PCR is fairly debatable as well now you mention it but aside from that aren't you worried at all that you may have mild covid and are still potentially an extremely dangerous vector? No, I wouldn't be either. I'd be steering clear of the nursing homes all the same..
Quote from: Juggz on September 11, 2020, 11:00:11 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 11, 2020, 02:52:36 PMWe are all deluding ourselves with this new normal and the only end result will be the destruction of civil liberties and what will be for all intents and purposes a police state and everyone turned against each other, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany style.
I feel like there's a massive, and I mean a really fucken huge, gap in logical exposition there, like there are several substantial paragraphs full of models, examples and details omitted. Please, enlighten me. How do we start at a holding period of simple social distancing and the like and end up in death camps? That Australian young one getting busted? Simply, if you know you have this virus and you go out to play, you're a cunt, pure and simple. That still doesn't explain how we end up in the gas chamber as the only end result. Please help me understand this perspective.
No bother man, I'll enlighten you. There is this thing known as hyperbole, and some people use it to illustrate a point they are making.
Masks & social distancing + ? = death camps
Yeah sure if that's the way you want to take up my explanation, have at it.
I'm just trying to connect the dots between the start point and the end point as you've outlined. I mean, you're accusing Ducky of hysteria, but you're the one claiming we're going to be getting put on the train. Hysteria? Most definitely.
No I already explained about using hyperbole to illustrate a point I was making. Give it up and catch me on something else.
Edit: what's with the sticking up for Ducky anyway? Surely he can make the argument for himself or ignore it all by himself
Quote from: astfgyl on September 11, 2020, 11:03:39 PM
The PCR is fairly debatable as well now you mention it but aside from that aren't you worried at all that you may have mild covid and are still potentially an extremely dangerous vector? No, I wouldn't be either. I'd be steering clear of the nursing homes all the same..
The PCR test may be skewing the number of positive cases towards higher figures due its sensitivity (i.e. its strength as a genetic tool), but at that it's still giving a good idea of the amount of virus circulating. Can it pick up "dead" virus strands? Technically, yes. But those strands were once "alive"...and therefore circulating. In any case, you should have noticed by my last several posts that I'm not really looking at positive case numbers, but rather at hospitalizations and mortality rate.
I'm as "worried" as ever that I may be a vector, which is why I continue to respect hygiene and distancing measures as much as possible, as I have done since the start...since, as folk are rightly stressing here, that part at least is a piece of piss to adhere to.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 11, 2020, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 11, 2020, 11:03:39 PM
The PCR is fairly debatable as well now you mention it but aside from that aren't you worried at all that you may have mild covid and are still potentially an extremely dangerous vector? No, I wouldn't be either. I'd be steering clear of the nursing homes all the same..
The PCR test may be skewing the number of positive cases towards higher figures due its sensitivity (i.e. its strength as a genetic tool), but at that it's still giving a good idea of the amount of virus circulating. Can it pick up "dead" virus strands? Technically, yes. But those strands were once "alive"...and therefore circulating. In any case, you should have noticed by my last several posts that I'm not really looking at positive case numbers, but rather at hospitalizations and mortality rate.
I'm as "worried" as ever that I may be a vector, which is why I continue to respect hygiene and distancing measures as much as possible, as I have done since the start...since, as folk are rightly stressing here, that part at least is a piece of piss to adhere to.
That sounds about as dangerous as going for a surf
Today was my third day without any symptoms without taking any medication. I've been isolated during that time. You could say that one "advantage" of showing symptoms is that it's easier to tell when your organism has beaten whatever it was.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 11, 2020, 06:55:25 PM
Quote from: Ducky on September 11, 2020, 06:46:33 PM
That's the only way out of this mess.
In this thread you make me want to tear my fucking hair out but I've always thought you came across as sound everywhere else on the board and the old board as well, so I am going to leave this video here and it might take a bit of the pharma company driven hysteria out of you, should you choose to watch it. There is a much simpler way out of this, and that is a sense of perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UvFhIFzaac
I'm not reciprocating the feeling "just because" but the want of tearing hair out is mutual. There's no big pharma hysteria with me at all (I mean, do you think an effective vaccine produced by Pfizer or whoever is a bad thing?), my "hysteria" stems from (as I already pointed out) my very real underlying health conditions that make me far more likely to suffer severe complications (or death) if I pick this up. Life can be fucking complicated enough to manage at times because of my physical health (and it already has me at risk of developing a variety of complications much earlier than normal), I'd rather not have to deal with this on top and further complicating things.
We've already established it's nasty as fuck and none of us want it, so filter that through a compromised immune system and you might have a better understanding why hearing "muh civil liberties" makes me "hysterical".
Here's a little more context on that surf story btw:
https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-09-08/woman-arrested-for-surfing-in-northern-spain-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19.html
Possibly safe to say there was concern she wasn't respecting quarantine in other respects also, since she ignored both an implicit and an explicit order.
Re that video, the main point that leaps out is that Ivor Cummings seems not to understand how "excess mortality" is calculated, i.e. on the basis of a five year average, not merely related to the previous 52 weeks. We're all a bit bamboozled with graphs though at this stage.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 11, 2020, 11:38:09 PM
Today was my third day without any symptoms without taking any medication. I've been isolated during that time. You could say that one "advantage" of showing symptoms is that it's easier to tell when your organism has beaten whatever it was.
I'm of the same opinion as what I think you mean there. Not as eloquent to be fair but the response you are taking is about as crazy as I think anyone needs to be getting about it all.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 12, 2020, 12:09:41 AM
Re that video, the main point that leaps out is that Ivor Cummings seems not to understand how "excess mortality" is calculated, i.e. on the basis of a five year average, not merely related to the previous 52 weeks. We're all a bit bamboozled with graphs though at this stage.
His graphs look fairly sound to be fair to him. He also contradicts himself by saying the thing about the safe summer but it doesn't take much from the analysis
And yet the following story shows this: https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-08-27/hundreds-of-revelers-seen-without-face-masks-at-large-party-in-bar-restaurant-in-spain.html?rel=mas
Which scene is likely to do more harm? Honestly I'm covided out at this stage so I'm not even going to attempt an answer. A team of police and medics to catch one woman who feels so healthy she can surf..try surfing it's not easy. Or a bar full of hundreds of young adults shifting, chatting, hugging, maybe an oul sneaky handjob in there somewhere. It all seems so haphazard.
Bang on man; when it comes to sneaky handjobs, haphazard is precisely the word!
You just never know how thry'll work out in a packed pub
I used to be a proper ninja
Edit: well well well...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html
QuoteIn Massachusetts, from 85 to 90 percent of people who tested positive in July with a cycle threshold of 40 would have been deemed negative if the threshold were 30 cycles, Dr. Mina said. "I would say that none of those people should be contact-traced, not one," he said.
Imagine that
Edit 2: https://www.lobbying.ie/return/59469/q4pr
Nothing to see there.
Ok so I was looking back on this thread from the beginning to watch how opinion has ebbed and flowed over time and I came across a video that I had forgotten about. The that led me to another through the suggestions with the alternate view, so I looked at that as well.
Here is the first, which at least some will have seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AyuhbnPOI
And here is the other view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx11Y4xjDwA
Edit: The second video will need closed captions if you don't understand German
Note that both videos are from last March.
I think that the King is naked, personally.
For anyone interested, this interview of a doctor in Madrid (from mid August) illustrates the difference between the quiet and under-control hospitals and the hysterical media who do not want to hear this.
https://youtu.be/SwlkumcRf6w
Pedrito posted it a couple of weeks back. Things have evolved somewhat, meaning that the doctor was still right then, but what he was saying would be slightly less "right" applied to things now.
Could say the same here now that there have been a few deaths lately but the level of deaths is no more than would normally be expected if there was no covid test.
Does anyone know if covid patients are also tested for Influenza upon presentation or is it strictly covid only? Be interesting to know how many coronavirus positives are super infections rather than being the only one a patient has.
Just looking at the other thread about 9/11 and a thought occurred to me. You could include the crisis we experienced around a decade ago too. Is this just another example of humans reacting when it's all too late and then doing an overkill on the response? 9/11 nobody saw coming and politicians went so far as to invest WMD to ensure that an appropriate response was meted out. The Irish recession went to similar levels of overkill. People who worked in banks, people who sold houses, builders, all levels of society were held up to scrutiny and accusations and finger pointing abounded.
Is this Covid response simply another example in a long line of examples whereby to cover up our unpreparedness, our inability to dictate the future, we end up flogging the horse to pulp as a means to make up for the inaqequacies in our 'system'?
That's not to say that it's not something to be taken seriously, but, again, the question is if the action warrants the response?
And this leads us back to the people who are in charge of these decisions..politicians. post 9/11 there was no way that America could not go to war. Post recession there was no way the banks, builders or whoever could not be in some way made scapegoats for the entire thing, despite a whole worldwide system being responsible. The public demanded action, driven on by a media that thrived on each situation. There are definite parallels to the current situation in that regard.
Yes indeed, and I think that is very close to what happened. In fact I think the german doctor I posted up there has pretty much hit the nail on the head, bar a few little things, but yeah a lot of this was done in the name of political correctness and much of it belongs in the PC and perpetually offended thread because the response to all of this must be like meat and mead to those types.
On the plus side, I hear on the radio that Varadkar wants to get a crew going to review all of NPHET's advice before implementing any in the future. It seems the penny is finally dropping, and without announcing it, we are moving to the Swedish model asap but still clinging to a bit of the fear and hype in case anyone might cop that a lot of this has been a complete sham. In fact I noticed his shift in tone when speaking of NPHET. I don't like him at all but it can't be denied he is one smooth fucking operator and is going to come out of this smelling of roses while Martin drowns in the sea of public discontent
Quote from: Snare on September 11, 2020, 08:32:32 PM
"Stop being a bitch" says the guy whinging about having to put a small bit of cloth on your face 🙄
The yellow vests and their ilk, cringe. Bring your flags for attacking people if the opportunity arises I suppose, and maybe shout RATM slogans while ye're at it.
If I had my way the vesties and their ilk would get a free trial of being starved of oxygen for a few hours to sample what 6m have endured for some considerably longer periods. Find out if it's really worth getting so upset about what are minimal intrusions on life, compared to the alternative for others and maybe even yourself when it comes to it.
It's 920,000 ugly deaths, despite precautions, so the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
The paranoia about this virus is hard to understand, especially re pharma companies when others touted are looking to line their own pockets via Patreon for promoting the alternative view.
It has only been 6 months with what really are minor inconveniences on the whole so get over yereselves and try a bit of patience maybe.
Great to hear that your face panties make you feel invincible. Happy to know that you are safe and well pal.. :)
I've been chatting with a guy on another forum. He runs a respiratory clinic in London.
Here's some of his take on this whole Covid situation....
Joe Public is not allowed to do what he wants to do. Things like watch football. And now even gather in a group of seven people.
I have my own conspiracy theories as to why this is happening but it is a decision of our government that is based at least on a portion of false science. Dr Mike Yeadon says that proper scientists don't take the Ferguson model seriously and yet we have crafted our policy around it. I believe he and Fauci belong in jail for what they've done - look at Fauci's vested interests. These figures (chosen scientific advisors to government) always have vested interests as they become priest-like figures who can secure enormous grants to save the world and hand down decrees. We should be suspicious of them rather than 'listen to the scientists'. In the mean time the world has been trashed by their policies. Have you seen footage of New York recently?
The disease came and went. It did that despite lockdown. It may have been made worse by lockdown - see the nursing homes. Many other things were made worse by lockdown. It may come again this winter but I'm expecting that it won't. Another respiratory disease will kill tens of thousands though - they always do, but lockdown has made us more unhealthy so less resistant this year.
It will take an enquiry to judge (if a fair judgement could ever be made now) whether the figures for deaths have been manipulated. Thailand reported 58 deaths from Covid and they were one of the only countries not to financially incentivise hospitals for taking in Covid patients. Many hospitals were going bankrupt this year (in countries with private healthcare) as they couldn't see other patients. They were sending staff home. There was a report from Germany that hospitals were putting patients on ventilators for Covid funding pathways, patients who would never be treated that way normally - it meant that doctors were put in the position of having to commit homicide. There are all kinds of distortions like these that could go down as 'fake news' as you put it.
I think we should be free to function as a society. If we are scared, we can isolate. But almost no one is dying so I am no longer scared for my vulnerable friends and family. We need to lower the anxiety, not crank it up to make people comply. Lord Sumption has been making the case for being free to choose and take risks. I agree with him fully. I think the big story from this year will not be the disease so much as it is the governmental tyranny that the disease has created an excuse for. I think it's going to get worse.
"Almost no one is dying"... April 1st has been and gone, lad. If someone you knew dies from it would you give a eulogy along the lines of "it's grand, almost no one is dying"?
Oh, so would you be upset if you went in for surgery and they showed up wearing "face panties" 🙄
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/anti-maskers-in-indonesia-have-been-forced-to-dig-graves-for-coronavirus-victims-as-punishment
QuoteEight men who refused to wear face masks in public were ordered to dig graves for people who died of COVID-19 in Indonesia.
Haha, fairly hardcore measure!
Quote from: Ducky on September 15, 2020, 11:54:00 AM
"Almost no one is dying"... April 1st has been and gone, lad. If someone you knew dies from it would you give a eulogy along the lines of "it's grand, almost no one is dying"?
Oh, so would you be upset if you went in for surgery and they showed up wearing "face panties" 🙄
I'd like to think that their face panties weren't on them for over 8 hours at a time. Nor indeed pulled out of a dirty old handbag, pocket or car glove compartment. :laugh:
Anyway, t'wud be a hard job to get a bit of surgery done nowadays with the hospitals crammed full of Covid patients and corpses.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 15, 2020, 12:12:09 PM
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/anti-maskers-in-indonesia-have-been-forced-to-dig-graves-for-coronavirus-victims-as-punishment
QuoteEight men who refused to wear face masks in public were ordered to dig graves for people who died of COVID-19 in Indonesia.
Haha, fairly hardcore measure!
Brilliant!
(https://www.nin.wiki/images/thumb/6/6d/Add_Violence_Cover.jpg/600px-Add_Violence_Cover.jpg)
This whole sham is about to come tumbling down very soon and all the screaming terrified masses are going to realise that they have been had. I have been had as well. It's a bit painful to admit it, but that is what has happened.
We all saw the original pics of the toilet paper rush, and we all saw the effect of that and the panic it generated. Completely unfounded panic as it turned out.
We all saw the pictures of the reaction in China and the videos of the hard lockdown they had, and lo and behold governments all over the world panic and also buy all of the proverbial toilet paper in the rush not to be the ones left behind. Completely understandable in a way but also completely misguided.
I'm also calling the asymptomatic transmission thing as a load of shite while I'm here. Not impossible mind, just so miniscule as to be negligible. The real smoking gun here is the testing, which has led us all a merry dance, as outlined in the NY Times article I posted back a bit which no one read. Only out by 85 or 90 percent though which is no major margin of error I guess.
From the ECDC website:
QuoteEvidence on SARS-CoV-2 transmission is available from a recent animal study on ferrets, which are considered suitable animal models for human respiratory infections, that assessed transmission in an experimental setting [2]. The findings suggest that direct transmission occurs between the animals, and the virus can be shed through multiple routes with rapid transmission to naive hosts in close contact with the infected hosts. The evidence of airborne transmission is considered less robust than the evidence of direct contact transmission between infected animals and naïve animals.
Less robust... :laugh: That's one way of putting it! Get yer fucking mask on and go into hiding. The common cold is about to destroy humanity. We have all been had and it's a pity we haven't got a remind me bot like reddit does, because I would like to remind you all of this in a year's time, or whenever we start paying the bill. It's no use trying to convince people that they have been had when they are determined to panic, and no government is going to come out and say fuck we got done, but we will all see in time. This is a disease of political correctness more than anything else.
And then there's the likes of this
QuoteThis past week a close friend of mine lost their father to COVID. He was a healthy man and we believe he got it when a family member called for a cuppa and several days later the family member who had visited tested positive. The family member was displaying no symptoms and they now have to live with this burden as they were the only visitor my friends father and mother had received in over a week. In effect they brought it to their house without knowing when they really didn't have to be there.
The fact is that his family never saw him nor spoke to him after they took him away in an ambulance as he was put straight into a coma and ventilated - and he never woke up. His lungs filled and filled and despite the hospitals best efforts he passed away.
https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/439477-how-would-you-like-to-be-rememberedwhen-you%E2%80%99re-gone/#comments
Indeed. basically the equivalent of a facebook post saying that their granny was written down as a covid death when she didn't even have it.
Also, this:
Quoteput straight into a coma
I'm pretty sure if we were to describe in medical grade detail the mechanics of some poor fucker dying of basically anything else in the same way we are bombarded with the mechanics of covid we would be equally terrorized.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 15, 2020, 03:04:53 PM
I'm also calling the asymptomatic transmission thing as a load of shite while I'm here.
You think most of the transmission stems from direct contact with symptomatic cases?
Yes I do. I will concede it is not impossible though, as has been indicated from pre-symptomatic patients, but the major difference there is that they go on to develop symptoms unlike the actual asymptomatic ones who stay that way. Note also that I am not saying that Covid 19 doesn't exist, only that the response is overblown in the extreme and driven by hundreds if not thousands of entities who are concerned above all with making money. If the test didn't exist, we would be calling this a bad flu season and getting on with our lives while following the usual flu season advice of washing our hands and coughing into our elbows. You know like the good old days before everyone went insane with fear and panic driven by the ubiquity of the internet. In fact, with the way the last few months have seen a drop off to below average excess mortality, we might even consider this as a normal flu season by the end of it.
Actually, and this doesn't get brought up much anymore, but this could even be a very clever sort of economic terrorism through the coverage emanating from China at the beginning. Could being the word there as there is only circumstantial evidence of anything like that, and that type of evidence can be bent into all sorts of shapes.
...or, we might consider it a Spanish flu season by the end of it! Only time will tell I guess! :)
Yeah, that's fair enough I suppose but I'll be putting me few bob on the regular season or slightly worse than regular. Also considering how many deaths in this country alone were certified without an actual test, it might even be a below average amount by the end of it.
Sure maybe the Spanish flu itself was a hoax, and every other flu, and probably all illness, actually, and the whole thing is a big scam by Big Pharma, because at the end of the day what really kills us all is just death and there ain't no cure for that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ3aiM8K6D0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5fIKmn1ok
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 15, 2020, 04:32:50 PM
Sure maybe the Spanish flu itself was a hoax, and every other flu, and probably all illness, actually, and the whole thing is a big scam by Big Pharma, because at the end of the day what really kills us all is just death and there ain't no cure for that!
I don't even think it's all a big hoax by any one cabal or the like, it's more of a death by a thousand cuts type situation where people everywhere are pushing their own little agendas for nothing more than personal gain. Sure why did the labs in the U.S. run the PCR tests to 40 cycles when it is accepted that would generate what is equivalent to false positives? Simple, because they want to do more testing as that is why they are there. Multiply that shite all over the world and here we are. We will all cop on to it fairly soon. We have been had. And all of the folks begging for the governments to look after them for their own safety are honestly trying to do what they see as the right thing, because not all people are wankers. they honestly don't want to put the vulnerable at risk and this is being played out on the actual good in people. And now we are on the road to hell, unfortunately.
Quote from: Juggz on September 15, 2020, 05:06:16 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ5fIKmn1ok
Consider me out-played! :laugh: :abbath: :abbath:
I heard smallpox was just a concoction of the media to push the "vaccines = good" narrative. Dave on Facebook said so and called everyone "sheeple", so it must be true :abbath:
Quote from: Ducky on September 15, 2020, 05:53:06 PM
I heard smallpox was just a concoction of the media to push the "vaccines = good" narrative. Dave on Facebook said so and called everyone "sheeple", so it must be true :abbath:
That actually bears no resemblance to the situation as I see it, so I guess it's aimed at someone else.
while we are on the subject of vaccines:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gsk-begins-shipping-record-number-of-its-influenza-vaccine-doses-for-2020-21-season-for-us-market-301101530.html
then see:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/20/swine-flu-vaccine-case-settled-but-hopes-for-legal-precedent-dashed
and
https://www.drugwatch.com/manufacturers/glaxosmithkline/#:~:text=GSK%20agreed%20to%20pay%20%24250,5%2C500%20death%20and%20injury%20claims.&text=GSK%20set%20aside%20%246.4%20billion%20for%20future%20lawsuits%20and%20settlements.
So of course the pharma companies wouldn't do anything unless they knew it was safe, right?
Also check out this video from the greatest conspiracy theorist of all time, Dr John Cambell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utMREADbtAc
Now of course one could say what is a small few lives ruined for the greater good, but then that is a bit paradoxical if one is of the mask wearing disposition, is it not?
Just to sum up as I don't have time to go clicking through the links (dinner's gonna burn!), you think vaccines are bad or wha?
I agree with Astfgyl that there is something weird going on :abbath:
Quote from: Ducky on September 15, 2020, 06:29:32 PM
Just to sum up as I don't have time to go clicking through the links (dinner's gonna burn!), you think vaccines are bad or wha?
They are a mixture of good and bad, so I think it comes down to how any particular person feels about them. I don't think anyone shouldn't get them if they want them, but I am extremely opposed to the idea of them being mandatory, or mandated by proxy via social exclusion. I certainly think that the pharma companies are always worthy of contempt, and yet I work in a pharmacy.
I would encourage at least a look at Dr Campbell's video, especially in light of the flu vaccine being offered and encouraged for children ages 2 - 12. Actually all of the links there are worth a go at some point if you do get the time.
Ok here's something a little more light hearted, and also hilarious, and also utterly fucking hypocritical as is the norm when it comes to the Government Gang
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0915/1165384-cabinet-isolation-covid/
My favourite is this beauty from Fianna Fáil TD Jim O'Callaghan, who says:
QuoteThe decision to stop Dail business for a week because of concern about 1 cabinet Min is not proportionate. Min.Donnelly&his close contacts should be tested. Jr Min should deal with Gov business. Governance of the country can't come to a standstill because of 1 suspected outbreak.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Some men to be talking about disproportionate responses!
And speaking of responses: This beauty from Dr. Nabarro, of the World Health Organisation:
Quote"It's a terrible situation, a health issue has got so out of control it's knocking the world into, not just a recession, but a huge economic contraction which would probably double the number of poor people, double the number of malnourished, lead to hundreds of millions of small businesses going bankrupt."
He added there was also a risk of the pandemic ruining educational opportunities for a lot of children around the world.
Another one to remember in a year's time.
Don't worry in a year's time they'll have found something else to yell about!
Quote from: Pedrito on September 15, 2020, 08:28:30 PM
Don't worry in a year's time they'll have found something else to yell about!
Yeah, "you owe us dolla".....
How many here have ever gotten the flu vaccine?
Just curious.....
Quote from: Giggles on September 15, 2020, 06:39:07 PM
I agree with Astfgyl that there is something weird going on :abbath:
Well done fellow forumite. You have entered WARRIOR MODE... :abbath:
This is honestly the political correctness disease, so you are bang on the money. Personally I have become a bit obsessive about it, which I admit freely. The reason for this is not because I think it doesn't exist but because I can't get to grips with sitting back and watching it all unfold when it is affecting basically everything and the response was based on fuck all science and a flawed mathematical model. It has been based on hype and fear and media manipulation.
Came across this study here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513410/, which seems legit enough, but hopefully someone in the academic circles will be able to pick the holes in it for me. It does tally up with the suspicion I have but there is always a chance it's rubbish in this day and age.
Also, the government want to bring in legislation to curb people's right to protest. This is the sort of thing I have been thinking would come of this since day one and is not cool.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 15, 2020, 09:09:57 PM
How many here have ever gotten the flu vaccine?
Just curious.....
Fuck that and no thanks
Edit: Have to clarify that I have no issue with anyone who wants to have it getting it before someone gives me the antivax shit, but why should someone who has about a one in a million chance of dying of flu such as myself try the pharmaceutical road rather than the natural immune system training that I might get if I ever got it? There is also the indication from one proper randomized and placebo controlled study which indicates that taking the flu shot made kids 4.4 times more likely to pick up other respiratory infections including
Coronavirus which needs to be seriously considered by anyone who wants the flu shot. But each to their own all the same.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 15, 2020, 09:33:28 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 15, 2020, 09:09:57 PM
How many here have ever gotten the flu vaccine?
Just curious.....
Fuck that and no thanks
Warrior Mode (EXTRA)..... :abbath:
Yeah I get it every year
Quote from: astfgyl on September 15, 2020, 09:31:24 PM
Came across this study here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513410/, which seems legit enough, but hopefully someone in the academic circles will be able to pick the holes in it for me.
Personally I interpret that study as having an n (i.e. sample size) of 1, despite the authors trying to present things to sound like they have a sample size of 455. I'll try confirm with some more specifically learned colleagues. Also, it's a Chinese study...can you trust them? :P
For the survey, I've never gotten the flu jab.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 15, 2020, 09:31:24 PM
The reason for this is not because I think it doesn't exist but because I can't get to grips with sitting back and watching it all unfold when it is affecting basically everything and the response was based on fuck all science and a flawed mathematical model. It has been based on hype and fear and media manipulation.
Exactly.
Back in March we were being led to believe that people would be dropping dead left right and center. People are dying from flus everyday what's being done about that? People are dying from tobacco related deaths everyday and no chance will they ban tobacco anytime soon.
But then all of a sudden the governments want to "save lives" by shutting everything down, and keeping us segregated so it's difficult to talk to each other about it. What the fuck are we even doing anyway, waiting for a vaccine?
I think it's weird.
And I think that you can't have a blanket set of rules across the country. People living in small towns and rural locations should not have the same restrictions as cities.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 15, 2020, 09:59:46 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 15, 2020, 09:31:24 PM
Came across this study here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32513410/, which seems legit enough, but hopefully someone in the academic circles will be able to pick the holes in it for me.
Personally I interpret that study as having an n (i.e. sample size) of 1, despite the authors trying to present things to sound like they have a sample size of 455. I'll try confirm with some more specifically learned colleagues. Also, it's a Chinese study...can you trust them? :P
Nah the cheap cunts can go fuck. It is indeed a sample of one, and it would need a larger scale study to draw anything noteworthy from it. Much like the same studies that have been done on the positive spread of it from asymptomatic cases. There is very little of any substance to that side of it either.
And Giggles, I don't think there is much point in restrictions at all. I do however think that on the off chance that it is as easy to get and be sick from as is touted, I'm going to try not to be wrestling with old people too much for the next while. Or fat people either. Might give the diabetics a wide berth as well and also all of the people who have become suddenly spooked of walking past me.
Lads, the fucking 5 levels shit is like some sort of mass social credit experiment. fuck sake it's madness. Honestly like how can ye not see it? Behave or we will lock you down progressively harder! And lads actually fucking begging for it. For a virus that everyone and no one seems to have and no one knows where they got it from?! Come on like
Nah I think it's something more human and dopey than all that. Every crisis that comes along we overkill in our responses. We get caught unawares and to make up for it we go into maximum overdrive. It happened after the Celtic Tiger, happened after 9-11 and it's happening now.
Remember the Celtic Tiger burst? It was literally like armageddon was coming. I'll never forget that night watching Brian Lenihan coming out of that meeting, him in the final throes of cancer. We're doomed was the message from the TV and it infested every section of Irish society. And yet we're all still here..well most of us anyway. It wasn't pretty but it was nowhere near as bad as they wanted us to believe.
What other crises have we had recently? Lesser ones but Trump, Brexit, that whole environmental madness past year..people love a bad news story.
It's a bad virus, it's deadly for some and harmless for others, but the reaction is not driven only by facts and numbers, it's driven by needing to show that we know what we're doing when in all reality it took us completely unawares and unprepared. It's morphed, it's sprouted tentacles, it's political and sociological and every other sort of 'ical' and 'igal'. Give it another 6 or 8 months and we'll be onto some other disaster soon enough.
Well put.
Honestly that was me at the old hyperbole again. I don't think it is actually like a social credit system by intention, just that it is the same basic idea of behave or your life gets progressively shitter until you can't go more than 5k from your house is all. Worlds apart really and there is no way that any government is learning anything about how people can be manipulated by fear. Governments would hardly be interested in trivial shit like that. Also entrepeneurs in pursuit of the mighty dollar won't learn anything about how gullible anyone is either. I do think your few months prediction will be bang on and it will also be fun to see how many of our civil liberties will be eroded by then before we get bored of that as well and go back to watching American Gladiators.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 16, 2020, 12:41:11 AM
Well put.
Honestly that was me at the old hyperbole again. I don't think it is actually like a social credit system by intention, just that it is the same basic idea of behave or your life gets progressively shitter until you can't go more than 5k from your house is all. Worlds apart really and there is no way that any government is learning anything about how people can be manipulated by fear. Governments would hardly be interested in trivial shit like that. Also entrepeneurs in pursuit of the mighty dollar won't learn anything about how gullible anyone is either. I do think your few months prediction will be bang on and it will also be fun to see how many of our civil liberties will be eroded by then before we get bored of that as well and go back to watching American Gladiators.
Man, I know I gave you jip a few months ago about your overreaction to this Covid thing but you've come full circle and opened your eyes up to it.
You've put your hands up and admitted that you got it totally wrong. You're to be commended for that.... :abbath:
Unfortunately you or any of the rest of us will ever get all these months back because of this overreacting shitshow, but hey-ho....
Anyways, as Pedrito says, we'll all look back on this in the near future and say; "what the hell were we thinking?" That London clinic guy I quoted yesterday was saying that since late April. Let the health services get a hold on it at first and then get on with our (near) normal lives. Keep the hygiene and social distancing up but don't keep everything shut down. It's madness!
Next week pints and then I want my fookin gigs back.... :abbath:
Fuck
The
World.... :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on September 16, 2020, 12:41:11 AM
Well put.
Honestly that was me at the old hyperbole again. I don't think it is actually like a social credit system by intention, just that it is the same basic idea of behave or your life gets progressively shitter until you can't go more than 5k from your house is all. Worlds apart really and there is no way that any government is learning anything about how people can be manipulated by fear. Governments would hardly be interested in trivial shit like that. Also entrepeneurs in pursuit of the mighty dollar won't learn anything about how gullible anyone is either. I do think your few months prediction will be bang on and it will also be fun to see how many of our civil liberties will be eroded by then before we get bored of that as well and go back to watching American Gladiators.
Look up Dr. Li-Meng Yan she has some interesting things to say.
I probably won't be able to resist looking her up, but honestly this whole thing is making me feel like giving up on society altogether. I can see that it's rotten to the core and there are too many people that can't see what is happening here for what it is. It is medical fascism. By accident or by design it doesn't actually matter. It still is what it is.
I still think everyone is trying to do the right thing even by accepting this assault on our freedoms and perhaps some will even thrive in the open prison, but it's not for me and I'm going to resist this shite til the bitter end.
I'll wash my hands regularly, I'll stay at home if I get sick until I get better, I'll try not to shift any pensioners, I'll wear the shiting mask at work and that is as far as I'm prepared to go with it. If I was contact traced, I wouldn't even turn up for the test, as I would only be perpetuating the myth by having a lab run a poxy rapid PCR test for 40 fucking cycles so they can add me into the false statistics. Healthy people do not need to be quarantined and anybody who can't see that needs their head examined. Also out of the 180,000 U.S. deaths from it, 100,000 of them had the flu as well. So what did they die of? It's on the CDC website right there staring us all in the face in case anyone thinks it's not true.
It feels like everyone is getting brainwashed. It nearly worked on me and all.
I've volunteered for the vaccine trials for Covid-19, which apparently were made by a Russian Pharmaceutical company.
I received my first shot and wanted to let everyone know that it's completely safe with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι χoρoshό я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши
Everyone just shut up and stop talking about it:
https://covid19data.com/2020/09/08/why-speaking-english-may-spread-more-coronavirus-than-other-languages/
Speak English And/Or Die?
Shhhhh, níl a fhios agam.
I'd say the aul "blas" would be a fierce fuckin' droplet spreader now in fairness! :laugh:
That sort of article is the greatest load of shit imaginable, but sure every cunt needs their piece of the covid pie. Here is a couple of bits of reading for the panic merchants to ignore. Any takers?
First this:
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809
Then this:
https://www.orlandomedicalnews.com/article/3545/letter-to-the-editor-why-increasing-number-of-cases-of-covid-19-is-not-bad-news
The evidence that we have all been roasted by hype is mounting, and nobody seems to care. Dr. Wolfgang had it spot on and the king is indeed naked. In the same spirit in which non mask wearers were made dig the graves of those who died with covid, I would advocate for public floggings for every politician and scientist who have perpetuated this myth, and these should be administered by the families of each poor old person worldwide who had to say their goodbyes to their loved ones through an ipad while the hazmat suited doctors left them to die alone, with no human contact and then not even a proper funeral for the people who cared about them to pay their proper respects. Also every SME owner who has had their business destroyed should be allowed to give a lash or 2 as well. Every news outlet needs the flogging as well and this should be given by all of the old folks who are terrorized nightly by the evening news and are giving their precious time shitting it with the world suddenly declared unsafe for them. The current and previous minister for health and all of the NPHET must be flogged too, and this should be carried out by all of the people on waiting lists in this country. 800,000 lashes should just about cover it.
There is no fate but that which we make for ourselves - Leo Varadkar, March 2020. Right before proceeding to make an absolute fuck of everything. How ironic that him and his dumb fuck unelected government have made this fate for everyone. We will allow him to watch Terminator 2 over and over again while he takes his flogging, just for the laugh.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 04:17:29 PM
There is no fate but that which we make for ourselves - Leo Varadkar, March 2020. Right before proceeding to make an absolute fuck of everything. How ironic that him and his dumb fuck unelected government have made this fate for everyone. We will allow him to watch Terminator 2 over and over again while he takes his flogging, just for the laugh.
Wouldn't be a fan of Leo at all but at the start when him and Harris were giving briefings the message was a lot clearer and on point than it is now.
astgflghly: without saying the logic is black and white, or that the two scenarios are truly analogous, do you think AIDS sufferers who die of pneumonia (which they would have survived had they not had AIDS) should be included in AIDS mortality rates?
@White Crow Survival, I see what you are getting at and the answer isn't as clear as a yes or no. It's a bit like saying that the flu killed my 90 year old grandmother, but the main cause was most likely the 90 years and so her death should be put down in the old age mortality rates. In line with that way of looking at it, AIDS patients should take the precautions as they deem necessary, and let the rest of the world get on with it, much like the high risk groups involved with covid 19. I must look into changing that fucking username.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 04:17:29 PM
In the same spirit in which non mask wearers were made dig the graves of those who died with covid, I would advocate for public floggings for every politician and scientist who have perpetuated this myth, and these should be administered by the families of each poor old person worldwide who had to say their goodbyes to their loved ones through an ipad while the hazmat suited doctors left them to die alone, with no human contact and then not even a proper funeral for the people who cared about them to pay their proper respects.
Yeah I've experienced that, my uncle lost his fight with cancer towards the start of all this, and we all had to sit around and watch the funeral on an iPad.
Grim.
If it is indeed all hype, stick me on the guest list to administer these floggings, I have a couple of scores to settle.
I can see why, no matter how it turns out, no matter how much evidence says it was an overreaction, they'll never ever backtrack, lest they have to deal with people like myself. I'm sure there's many, many similar tales out there right now.
Amazing how much salt some ye boys are display regarding an "overreaction". Would ye prefer if they didn't do enough and half your family were keeled over dead?
Ye can run around without your masks and catch it all ye like, pity ye wouldn't take off the tinfoil hats while ye're at it.
Quote from: Ducky on September 17, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
Amazing how much salt some ye boys are display regarding an "overreaction". Would ye prefer if they didn't do enough and half your family were keeled over dead?
Ye can run around without your masks and catch it all ye like, pity ye wouldn't take off the tinfoil hats while ye're at it.
I wouldn't consider not being able to attend my uncles funeral, essential treatment for my Ma being pushed back, and subsequently not being able to see her while she suffered alone in hospital for weeks as salt, but to each their own.
The point being, with much of what has been discussed here thus far, there's a reasonably compelling case that all is not what it seems. So musing over that is a seemingly worthwhile endeavor.
Do people still use the tin foil hat thing to try and be funny? Amazing.
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
I really have to buy you a nice cold pint of Corona sometime man. 8)
(//)
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
If only I'd suggested eating a 9 euro meal with my Ma in hospital, she wouldn't have been on her own.
And sure we should have just dragged my uncle's coffin to the local coffee shop and congregated there.
Jesus, we are some fools in hindsight.
It's a great point made by the man with the worst username known to man Astfylgfywbbwei...
It's not that Covid isn't dangerous. It's the fact that the response is a farce. You wear masks and then take them off in a Starbucks which has air conditioning pumping recycled air around the premises. Yeah you might not be spitting on the lad beside you, but come on, nobody is buying this bullshit. And yet a family member dies and you have to watch them be buried from a distance, neighbours wave the hearse goodbye from inside their porches in case something comes downwind..you couldn't make it up really.
People are going to die every day in car crashes. Do we ban cars? No.
People are going to die every day from alcohol abuse and/or related violence. Do we ban alcohol? No.
People are dying everyday from diseases that are linked to shitty cheap processed foods that are widely available. Do we ban these? No.
When did the government ever give a fuck about the well being of people? Why are they pretending to try now? Spoiler alert they don't.
If Covid 19 didn't have a name and wasn't so hyped up, we would have just called it "an awful bad dose of flu that's done the rounds".
I don't like the way the narrative is being pushed to guilt people into being cooperative. Like Astdyfl said, I'll wear my mask in public and I'll stay away from old people. But let me go about my fucking business.
And at least my tin foil hat doesn't cover my eyes and ears.
Yeah I think someone mentioned a while back that 25% of the population are high risk because they are obese.
The fact that things were allowed to get that bad health wise, and suddenly it's all about caring for everyone's health, just seems like such a jarring contrast.
Masks don't seem to be helping much now (if at all) .... still don't understand why people weren't made to wear them months and months ago when it was at its "first peak".
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 18, 2020, 06:20:18 AM.... still don't understand why people weren't made to wear them months and months ago when it was at its "first peak".
I agree 100% with this. Seems like too little too late when it was rolled out.
Don't know about in Ireland, but in France the simple reason was that all surgery style masks were needed for medical purposes because the country was severely understocked. The worry was that if people were told to wear masks, they'd stockpile on the easiest ones to get, i.e. those surgery style ones. At our labs, for example, we donated the entire stock of masks we had to compensate for lack in the hospitals. The idea of wearing the cloth masks, known from the start not to be as functional as the medical ones, took longer to catch on. They're not exactly satisfying or even complete explanations, but they were at least driving factors in policy decision.
Quite a lot of interesting considerations and perspectives in this easy to read "Six months in" non-alarmist piece:
https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5
It's almost as if there's a perfectly rational logic behind all the actions which have been taken :o
Quote from: Juggz on September 18, 2020, 10:13:31 AM
It's almost as if there's a perfectly rational logic behind all the actions which have been taken :o
Well, almost...with the caveat that you include a healthy dose of what Pedrito called human "dopiness" in policy decision, update, and communication, which has certainly played a part. Of course, if you cast aside any scientist who isn't anti-policy as being a big pharma shill, well, there's not going to be any reasoning anyone out of that position.
What are the 3 new tunes van morrison had apparently written about the government trying to control us with the coronavirus and take away are freedom?
On a side note, brown eyed girl is the shittest song ever.
3 things immediately jump out from that article:
1. WHO took until July to admit that aerosol transmission was possible.
2. 27 people infected in a Starbucks in South Korea because everyone eating and drinking with no masks.
3. Proper ventilation and air filtration is necessary.
So the whole thing could have been contained a lot sooner if we had the right policies in place instead of 6 months of mixed messaging. The WHO completely inept and the policy makers have had no clear plan of action throughout any of this, at least one that makes any sense. Mask wearing makes sense, I can see how it would work, but if I then walk into a café and take the thing off and talk away to my heart's content to all my buddies, it just beggars belief.
Also, and more importantlty, there is no back up plan for sectors like Tourism which are now regularly at the whim of any slight blip in the economy or crises. Is it not time that some new tax bracket is created for businesses and employees in this sector? We jump from crisis to crisis and nothing seems to be done to protect our most vulnerable sectors. Agriculture would be another sector: the foot and mouth crisis a perfect example.
Yes, it's easy to see it that way with hindsight etc but this is far from the first time we've had whole sectors of our economy under attack in this way would be my point.
Quote from: Giggles on September 17, 2020, 09:40:53 PM
When did the government ever give a fuck about the well being of people? Why are they pretending to try now? Spoiler alert they don't.
Exactly if they did they would have taken action back in December when it was clear this was going to be an issue not if but when it made it to Europe. At first I just put it down to the normal Government incompetence but now it's starting to look like much more than that.
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on September 18, 2020, 10:35:16 AM
What are the 3 new tunes van morrison had apparently written about the government trying to control us with the coronavirus and take away are freedom?
On a side note, brown eyed girl is the shittest song ever.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/18/van-morrison-fascist-bullies-anti-lockdown-covid-songs
Van the Man: Brown Eyed Goil is class lad... :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
Great, so if my nurse friend gets it I'll be sure to send her around to cough all over you while you lecture her that it's really not that bad and how it's all a plot to destroy "muh frEeDumBs"
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
Great, so if my nurse friend gets it I'll be sure to send her around to cough all over you while you lecture her that it's really not that bad and how it's all a plot to destroy "muh frEeDumBs"
Is she hawt?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 18, 2020, 01:03:28 PM
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
Great, so if my nurse friend gets it I'll be sure to send her around to cough all over you while you lecture her that it's really not that bad and how it's all a plot to destroy "muh frEeDumBs"
Is she hawt?
She is, but she has a kink for wearing masks, so that's ye gents shit out of luck.
Didn't understand the Van Morrison thing til I saw that he's released a few songs criticising the lockdown measures. Gemma O'Doherty on bass, I believe.
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 01:08:36 PM
She is, but she has a kink for wearing masks, so that's ye gents shit out of luck.
If a woman tells you that the way you turn her on is by wearing a mask, the problem probably isn't the mask.
:laugh:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 18, 2020, 03:31:48 PM
:laugh:
That's why most of these boiz end up playing with their own cum dungeons... :laugh:
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 12:51:54 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2020, 07:55:06 PM
They do still use it, right before masking up or donning the plastic visor or sometimes both so they can go to the shop, so people won't spread it to each other. On the way home they decide to grab a coffee, so they head into the coffee shop with their mate where they proceed to take off their masks and visors safe in the knowledge of the extremely minimal risk involved in sitting with other people with no masks on in an enclosed space. Then head home to sit with a nice bit of RTE's nightly scaremongering and brainwashing to reaffirm their desire to give up their basic rights and freedoms. Sometimes they go out for a pint as well because we all know it's ok to sit in that enclosed space as well as long as they are eating something.
Great, so if my nurse friend gets it I'll be sure to send her around to cough all over you while you lecture her that it's really not that bad and how it's all a plot to destroy "muh frEeDumBs"
You are honestly quoting what I wrote there and trying to make out I'm some sort of a dumb cunt for seeing through all this bollix, while you play that fucking thick game I described? You needn't worry about your nurse friend anyway sure she won't get it wearing a mask. You have been so indoctrinated by media driven fear that I feel bad for you and as I already said you come across as generally sound everywhere else round here, so nothing personal or anything. I was afraid too, but then I started looking into it and copped all of the glaring inconsistencies between the hype and the damage done by the completely irrational response, and the actual facts of what is happening. They didn't tally up at all.
You have been sold a lie, and unfortunately so has your nurse friend. Did she tell you of how her workplace is riddled with poor sick old people half dying on trolleys and the hospitals so clogged up from the victims of this virus that the health service can no longer function? Oh wait that was flu season every year since god knows when. Wake the fuck up lad, and stop wanting to make everyone else suffer because of your irrational fear of getting a cold.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 18, 2020, 10:18:05 AM
Quote from: Juggz on September 18, 2020, 10:13:31 AM
It's almost as if there's a perfectly rational logic behind all the actions which have been taken :o
Well, almost...with the caveat that you include a healthy dose of what Pedrito called human "dopiness" in policy decision, update, and communication, which has certainly played a part. Of course, if you cast aside any scientist who isn't anti-policy as being a big pharma shill, well, there's not going to be any reasoning anyone out of that position.
QuoteHowever, there have been several documented instances of infections that don't fit with droplet or surface spread because they happened even when people maintained their distance. Perhaps the most famous example is the choir rehearsal outside of Seattle, Washington, a superspreader event where 52 out of 61 people were infected during a two-and-half-hour practice. What's notable about this case is that the singers maintained distance from each other and used plenty of hand sanitizer, per safety guidance at the time. Also, the infected person was presymptomatic, so they weren't coughing or sneezing and projecting droplets further. Despite all this, one person was still able to infect 52 others.
Be very interesting to know how many were sick vs how many were tested positive by PCR. Shame that was left out of a bullshit article that says we should be afraid of the air around us. With all of the research done in the world on common cold viruses such as coronavirus and rhinovirus, it is truly fucking amazing that this bollix is only coming out now when the idea of wearing masks needs propping up. Is it not to be fully expected that if a load of people are breathing in the same air as someone carrying any virus that there would be traces of it there to conveniently amplify through PCR to validate the research?
I am really genuinely surprised that you, as learned and critical as you seem to be, haven't seen this for what it is yet.
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 12:51:54 PM
Great, so if my nurse friend gets it I'll be sure to send her around to cough all over you while you lecture her that it's really not that bad and how it's all a plot to destroy "muh frEeDumBs"
This is the kind of shit that's pissing me off, people's reactions are being tuned to jump straight in pointing fingers about how we're supposed to be protecting somebody.
Your nurse friend has the freedom to make a choice about whether or not she wants to work where she does.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 18, 2020, 03:57:24 PM
Be very interesting to know how many were sick vs how many were tested positive by PCR. Shame that was left out of a bullshit article that says we should be afraid of the air around us. With all of the research done in the world on common cold viruses such as coronavirus and rhinovirus, it is truly fucking amazing that this bollix is only coming out now when the idea of wearing masks needs propping up. Is it not to be fully expected that if a load of people are breathing in the same air as someone carrying any virus that there would be traces of it there to conveniently amplify through PCR to validate the research?
I am really genuinely surprised that you, as learned and critical as you seem to be, haven't seen this for what it is yet.
Well, as possibly the only person in this discussion who has ever performed a PCR and studied how they work and their limits, maybe you should turn that surprise back around. For all the poo-pooing of over-sensitivity, I know of plenty of cases where people were co-habiting and co-habitants tested negative; in fact, if you read the article neutrally, instead of employing what you have begun in bad faith to refer to as some kind of poetic employment of hyperbole to say that it enjoins us to be afraid to breathe the air, you would have read this: "an infected person had a 17.2% chance of spreading the virus to a family member who lived with them, but just a 2.6% chance of giving it to someone outside the home." That figure will be based on PCR testing. Going by your inflationary logic, an infected person should have a much, much higher chance of, let's say, making a family member test positive for PCR. But no, it's a sober 17.2%, much higher than the level outside the home, but still nothing that would indicate widespread or problematic inflation of incidence via PCR over-sensitivity.
So, in that choir case, it looks like what we're dealing with is what they say we're dealing with, rather than whatever it is that you imagine it must have been, such as single virus molecules alighting in 52 people's nostrils and staying there, without infecting them, for the few days it would have taken until they were tested.
I do see this for what it is; an extremely complex and delicate situation that is being made worse by the media, by politicians' inability to admit to having been wrong and thus allow themselves to rapidly change policy if need be, by the general public's constant avidity to blame someone - preferably an authority figure, real or imagined - for everything that goes wrong in life, and also - perhaps above ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE (irony incoming) - by hyperbole on both sides.
Them choir groups are notoriously into gangbamgs also. We're not being given the full story here :abbath:
Quote from: Bigmac on September 18, 2020, 02:13:27 PM
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 01:08:36 PM
She is, but she has a kink for wearing masks, so that's ye gents shit out of luck.
If a woman tells you that the way you turn her on is by wearing a mask, the problem probably isn't the mask.
Do you get a vanilla McFlurry to go with that vanilla sex life?
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/men-who-wear-a-face-mask-are-sexier-according-to-us-women-301115555.html
Quote from: mickO))) on September 18, 2020, 04:37:23 PM
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/men-who-wear-a-face-mask-are-sexier-according-to-us-women-301115555.html
Now that's proper-ganda.... :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 18, 2020, 04:15:00 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 18, 2020, 03:57:24 PM
Be very interesting to know how many were sick vs how many were tested positive by PCR. Shame that was left out of a bullshit article that says we should be afraid of the air around us. With all of the research done in the world on common cold viruses such as coronavirus and rhinovirus, it is truly fucking amazing that this bollix is only coming out now when the idea of wearing masks needs propping up. Is it not to be fully expected that if a load of people are breathing in the same air as someone carrying any virus that there would be traces of it there to conveniently amplify through PCR to validate the research?
I am really genuinely surprised that you, as learned and critical as you seem to be, haven't seen this for what it is yet.
Well, as possibly the only person in this discussion who has ever performed a PCR and studied how they work and their limits, maybe you should turn that surprise back around. For all the poo-pooing of over-sensitivity, I know of plenty of cases where people were co-habiting and co-habitants tested negative; in fact, if you read the article neutrally, instead of employing what you have begun in bad faith to refer to as some kind of poetic employment of hyperbole to say that it enjoins us to be afraid to breathe the air, you would have read this: "an infected person had a 17.2% chance of spreading the virus to a family member who lived with them, but just a 2.6% chance of giving it to someone outside the home." That figure will be based on PCR testing. Going by your inflationary logic, an infected person should have a much, much higher chance of, let's say, making a family member test positive for PCR. But no, it's a sober 17.2%, much higher than the level outside the home, but still nothing that would indicate widespread or problematic inflation of incidence via PCR over-sensitivity.
So, in that choir case, it looks like what we're dealing with is what they say we're dealing with, rather than whatever it is that you imagine it must have been, such as single virus molecules alighting in 52 people's nostrils and staying there, without infecting them, for the few days it would have taken until they were tested.
I do see this for what it is; an extremely complex and delicate situation that is being made worse by the media, by politicians' inability to admit to having been wrong and thus allow themselves to rapidly change policy if need be, by the general public's constant avidity to blame someone - preferably an authority figure, real or imagined - for everything that goes wrong in life, and also - perhaps above ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE (irony incoming) - by hyperbole on both sides.
You might find it hard to believe, and especially in light of my public floggings suggestion a few posts ago but my issue isn't really and truly about blaming anyone. There are too many factors at work to paint it as a master plan or anything along those lines. Everyone and anyone wants to get their piece of the action around this whole thing and it has been hyped so so much from the very beginning coming out of China last December (and it is actually highly debatable if it indeed came out of there or was simply discovered there, given that it has been found in Brazilian sewage samples from earlier) that it is wholly understandable that people would be worried or anxious or afraid of it.
My issue is that the evidence does not support the fear in any way and now we are in a situation where everyone is still afraid and fear makes people act irrationally. The PCR thing is not about them being inaccurate or constantly throwing up false positives. The test doesn't care, it isn't sentient. The issue is that a positive result from it is seen as proof that someone is infectious when in fact it doesn't say that at all. But the fact it doesn't say that at all has not stopped that positive result becoming the definition of a case. As someone who has decent knowledge of these tests, what do you think of the story of the U.S. labs running it for 40 cycles to generate a positive result, and why do you think they would do that? It's a bit obvious isn't it, it's not to do anything beyond keeping themselves in the money by doing more testing and keeping the whole thing going.
What also do you think of the story that these tests will pick up other coronavirus variants, such as the one found to cause some common colds, and how much do you think that distorts the data? That is only the testing for starters, but unfortunately the whole response is centred around the level of positive tests and not the level of sick people involved. The response to this was supposed to be about keeping hospital numbers down, and it happened; they weren't overrun.
So now why this persistence with the response and a plan to keep us all under threat of restrictions for the next year or so, when the numbers in the real world never actually matched up to the flawed mathematical modelling, which assumed that nobody had any immunity to the virus when it turns out that the larger percentage do actually have an inbuilt immune response due to the similarity between this coronavirus and previously discovered ones. Now no one will actually come out and say "fuck it, it was over hyped, lets crack on with living again". No it must be the long plan, and of course because all the data in the world shows that it is seasonal as any normal cold virus, and will inevitably be present in some folks who die this winter during season, the government can persist with the idea that it is all of our faults for going on living our lives rather than say it wasn't what it at first seemed.
We then have the likes of the WHO announcing that things can never be the same again no matter what. Why? Why can't things be as they were? No reason at all because when the dust settles on this in a few months with or without a vaccine, people will slowly realise that it was never deserving of the response it received. A lot of people will be unhappy and broke and still on the hospital waiting list, but as long as those numbers are kept high (by testing) there is still a chance of the governments blaming everyone rather than having it turned around on them. It is not right to be putting people in fear like this when the evidence is just not there to back it up.
So there is the hyperbole-free version of what I see going on in front of me while science continues to try to convince us to be afraid of the air we breathe. What do you make of that?
Prepare to have your mind-blown, because none of your anti-for-the-sake-of-being-anti sources will tell you this, but false negatives are a bigger issue with clinical (rather than laboratory setting) PCR testing than false positives. There are some great YouTube series about molecular biology, lecture portions from MIT, that will tell you all about how PCR works, which might be of more long-term beneficial use to you than learning about them from people with an enormous agenda.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 18, 2020, 05:13:27 PM
Prepare to have your mind-blown, because none of your anti-for-the-sake-of-being-anti sources will tell you this, but false negatives are a bigger issue with clinical (rather than laboratory setting) PCR testing than false positives. There are some great YouTube series about molecular biology, lecture portions from MIT, that will tell you all about how PCR works, which might be of more long-term beneficial use to you than learning about them from people with an enormous agenda.
QuoteThe PCR thing is not about them being inaccurate or constantly throwing up false positives. The test doesn't care, it isn't sentient. The issue is that a positive result from it is seen as proof that someone is infectious when in fact it doesn't say that at all.
You skirted around that one a bit there. My source on that one was the New York Times for starters, who are hardly anti for the sake of being anti.
QuoteWhat also do you think of the story that these tests will pick up other coronavirus variants, such as the one found to cause some common colds, and how much do you think that distorts the data?
Could you give your own opinion on that one rather than directing me to the Youtube lectures? Note I said
story, not fact. I am indeed skeptical enough not to buy into any old shite I read, but also not blind to the massive discrepancy between the predictions and the reality. I don't get everything from the anti side, and also read the pro stories. I also try make a habit of getting my info from reputable sources in the public domain rather than anything off FB or Twitter or the likes, although I admit nobody is infallible.
Strictly speaking, PCR "false positives" are highly unlikely to occur; in scientific terms, detecting a strand of dead SARS-CoV2 after 40 or even 60 cycles is not a "false positive", it's a true positive. The question - as I think you're saying yourself, but just to clarify - is about whether, clinically, the tested person is actually infected or not. Similarly, PCR "false negatives" are rare, but in clinical settings they can happen a lot, because the sample taken may not contain any virus, for a number of reasons. So, on an individual level, both things can happen. But on a population, which is to say an epidemiological, level, widespread PCR testing is still going to give a very accurate idea of how much of the virus is actively in circulation...which is what I said a couple of pages back. A pandemic is, above all, a population phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed as such first and foremost. Which is not to say that the individual level is not regarded at all, it has to be, but it isn't the most pertinent level of analysis; that's population. The distinction is really important to grasp.
Based on how RT-PCR works, I don't think they will be picking up common cold viruses as coronaviruses. If such a result occurs, it will more likely be down to human error, so I don't think such an eventuality could be distorting the data in any meaningful way. PCR is an unbelievably powerful tool in genetics precisely because that kind of thing is extremely unlikely to happen. And, in passing, the number of cycles would have zero incidence on that aspect.
...
...
I see the 6 o'clock scaremongering session has just been on. :laugh:
Great way to start the weekend. :abbath:
I'm no fan of Leo V but this is bollix. Spoiled little bitch by the looks of her.....
https://mobile.twitter.com/NoelRock/status/1306967632516714497?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1306967632516714497%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fleo-varadkar-drink-thrown-5208603-Sep2020%2F
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 18, 2020, 05:44:31 PM
Strictly speaking, PCR "false positives" are highly unlikely to occur; in scientific terms, detecting a strand of dead SARS-CoV2 after 40 or even 60 cycles is not a "false positive", it's a true positive. The question - as I think you're saying yourself, but just to clarify - is about whether, clinically, the tested person is actually infected or not. Similarly, PCR "false negatives" are rare, but in clinical settings they can happen a lot, because the sample taken may not contain any virus, for a number of reasons. So, on an individual level, both things can happen. But on a population, which is to say an epidemiological, level, widespread PCR testing is still going to give a very accurate idea of how much of the virus is actively in circulation...which is what I said a couple of pages back. A pandemic is, above all, a population phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed as such first and foremost. Which is not to say that the individual level is not regarded at all, it has to be, but it isn't the most pertinent level of analysis; that's population. The distinction is really important to grasp.
Based on how RT-PCR works, I don't think they will be picking up common cold viruses as coronaviruses. If such a result occurs, it will more likely be down to human error, so I don't think such an eventuality could be distorting the data in any meaningful way. PCR is an unbelievably powerful tool in genetics precisely because that kind of thing is extremely unlikely to happen. And, in passing, the number of cycles would have zero incidence on that aspect.
Ok that explains it pretty well. Thanks for that. I guess false positives is indeed the wrong terminology then, it's just more to do with the issue of how the overall results are acted upon. I had seen a lot of info regarding SARS-CoV-2 being genetically similar to other coronavirus variants to the extent it would likely fool the test, but seemingly it is only the antibody test then that is non-specific.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 18, 2020, 07:11:13 PM
I'm no fan of Leo V but this is bollix. Spoiled little bitch by the looks of her.....
https://mobile.twitter.com/NoelRock/status/1306967632516714497?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1306967632516714497%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fleo-varadkar-drink-thrown-5208603-Sep2020%2F
That is indeed not the way to get the point across.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 18, 2020, 08:34:00 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 18, 2020, 05:44:31 PM
Strictly speaking, PCR "false positives" are highly unlikely to occur; in scientific terms, detecting a strand of dead SARS-CoV2 after 40 or even 60 cycles is not a "false positive", it's a true positive. The question - as I think you're saying yourself, but just to clarify - is about whether, clinically, the tested person is actually infected or not. Similarly, PCR "false negatives" are rare, but in clinical settings they can happen a lot, because the sample taken may not contain any virus, for a number of reasons. So, on an individual level, both things can happen. But on a population, which is to say an epidemiological, level, widespread PCR testing is still going to give a very accurate idea of how much of the virus is actively in circulation...which is what I said a couple of pages back. A pandemic is, above all, a population phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed as such first and foremost. Which is not to say that the individual level is not regarded at all, it has to be, but it isn't the most pertinent level of analysis; that's population. The distinction is really important to grasp.
Based on how RT-PCR works, I don't think they will be picking up common cold viruses as coronaviruses. If such a result occurs, it will more likely be down to human error, so I don't think such an eventuality could be distorting the data in any meaningful way. PCR is an unbelievably powerful tool in genetics precisely because that kind of thing is extremely unlikely to happen. And, in passing, the number of cycles would have zero incidence on that aspect.
Ok that explains it pretty well. Thanks for that. I guess false positives is indeed the wrong terminology then, it's just more to do with the issue of how the overall results are acted upon. I had seen a lot of info regarding SARS-CoV-2 being genetically similar to other coronavirus variants to the extent it would likely fool the test, but seemingly it is only the antibody test then that is non-specific.
I did make a mistake here though:
"Based on how RT-PCR works, I don't think they will be picking up common cold viruses as coronaviruses."
I should have said:
"Based on how RT-PCR works, I don't think they will be picking up common cold viruses as SARS-CoV-2."
Some common cold viruses
are coronaviruses, but PCR still wouldn't get distinct ones mixed up. The serology test could make such a "mix up" though, on antibodies, which is bad and good news; bad news because it makes that method of testing a less reliable epidemiological/epidemic fighting tool than we might like it to be; good news because it goes a little way to explaining why some people seem to have higher resistance to COVID, as they developed antibodies to fight other coronaviruses (perhaps a common cold, for instance) which happen to have some effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 as well.
Yeah I copped the little slip there, but I got what you meant. The level of immune response seemingly gathered from previous coronaviruses is indeed excellent news, and here's hoping that most people will turn out to have it.
It is a real minefield these days picking through sources trying to get to the actual info, and it's a fault of mine that the scaremongering type of stuff gets my back up so much. In spite of what a lot of my posts look like, I'm a compassionate person in reality and seeing everyone terrified all the time and turning against each other when the evidence doesn't really support doing that gets to me a lot. I don't want to take away from the effect it has on those who get a bad dose from it either, but the way the media and government are handling this is all wrong and causing more problems than it is solving.
Like I don't agree with Dublin being moved to level 3 at all even though I'm not going to be there any time soon, and I think that the level of hospitalisations does not support this move at all, in spite of the rise in cases. This brings us back around to how the results of the testing is being applied, and it is not being done rationally. Self isolating for sick people is fair enough, but this whole idea of locking down things again is not the way. Can nobody look at Sweden, admit that is the right approach, and go at it like that?
I've just seen on RTE's nightly dose of fear that Ireland has the lowest number of ICU beds per capita in Europe. Why was that not increased dramatically in the six months since this began here? It's shit like that that makes me want to bang my head against the wall as well.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on September 18, 2020, 07:11:13 PM
I'm no fan of Leo V but this is bollix. Spoiled little bitch by the looks of her.....
https://mobile.twitter.com/NoelRock/status/1306967632516714497?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1306967632516714497%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fleo-varadkar-drink-thrown-5208603-Sep2020%2F
If ever there was a woman that needed a good slap
He is probably right to be fair. Also being the only person on here who has actually experienced Covid 19, he has a better angle on it than I do, certainly.
There are some charts here I have been looking at on a twitter thread that deserve a bit of analysis all the same. I must check where he is getting them from but if they hold up there are serious questions.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1305474317598240769
And as an aside, I've just heard Ryan Tubridy say "The vaccine is coming, it's nearly there". Should we not be planning for that not actually happening and beefing up the health service instead of relying on the 2 birds in the bush? Also, the idea keeps getting spun that it is the fault of the people for not behaving when everything points to it being seasonal in nature and so it is not the fault of the people or the government that the figures are going up. Saying people did well to control it or saying they misbehaved is fairly bollix either way it's looked at, if the seasonal nature of it is accepted.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 18, 2020, 09:53:20 PM
He is probably right to be fair. Also being the only person on here who has actually experienced Covid 19, he has a better angle on it than I do, certainly.
There are some charts here I have been looking at on a twitter thread that deserve a bit of analysis all the same. I must check where he is getting them from but if they hold up there are serious questions.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1305474317598240769
And as an aside, I've just heard Ryan Tubridy say "The vaccine is coming, it's nearly there". Should we not be planning for that not actually happening and beefing up the health service instead of relying on the 2 birds in the bush? Also, the idea keeps getting spun that it is the fault of the people for not behaving when everything points to it being seasonal in nature and so it is not the fault of the people or the government that the figures are going up. Saying people did well to control it or saying they misbehaved is fairly bollix either way it's looked at, if the seasonal nature of it is accepted.
Are you sure its seasonal? I suspect it's more a case of that once you open up the virus spreads again. So are we heading for a series of openings followed by regional lockdowns until a vaccine comes along. Also, as you suggest Turbridy is a bit unwise to be portraying a vaccine as the silver bullet that will be along shortly,
A vaccine wiill take time to administer. Also we don't how long it will give protection for.
Yeah of course nothing is fully confirmed but the evidence points to seasonality. Using Sweden as the test, who never locked down, their curve of deaths folowed the same trajectory as all of the countries who did lock down. I posted a video back a bit which goes through this in detail, and the chap in question seems to regularly update it. Here is the latest version which I haven't seen but which seems to be addressing someone dismissing his analysis as pseudoscience into the bargain. Don't knock it til you watch it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKKIr425b40
Quote from: astfgyl on September 18, 2020, 09:13:02 PM
I've just seen on RTE's nightly dose of fear that Ireland has the lowest number of ICU beds per capita in Europe. Why was that not increased dramatically in the six months since this began here? It's shit like that that makes me want to bang my head against the wall as well.
Basically because they can't. Most ICU's were already dangerously understaffed, and to work there requires a separate diploma in addition to the nursing degree so it's not just simply a case of moving people from a regular ward to ICU
So when someone mentioned earlier how we escaped relatively unscathed from the financial crisis, we really didn't and this is just further reinforcing it. We've been left with a crippling health service with fewer people to work it, after years of newly qualified graduates emigrating at the first chance to escape the shitshow
It's a very good point about health staff Trev. I was giving it the usual banter of glass half full, it didn't kill us type thing, but that's a very good point.
Quote from: Trev on September 18, 2020, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 18, 2020, 09:13:02 PM
I've just seen on RTE's nightly dose of fear that Ireland has the lowest number of ICU beds per capita in Europe. Why was that not increased dramatically in the six months since this began here? It's shit like that that makes me want to bang my head against the wall as well.
Basically because they can't. Most ICU's were already dangerously understaffed, and to work there requires a separate diploma in addition to the nursing degree so it's not just simply a case of moving people from a regular ward to ICU
So when someone mentioned earlier how we escaped relatively unscathed from the financial crisis, we really didn't and this is just further reinforcing it. We've been left with a crippling health service with fewer people to work it, after years of newly qualified graduates emigrating at the first chance to escape the shitshow
Yep, no arguments there whatsoever and I hope someone (who can actually do something about it) can see this. Nobody saw this covid thing coming, but now it is a thing it needs to be looked at on a level like that, where somebody realises that you can't cut the health service to pieces and it not cost anything. The true cost of the decimation of services in this country after 2008 is being counted right now, and it is not coming cheap. Unfortunately, the knock on effect of that seems like it is to be the cost of the covid response, which is being touted as being in the tens of billions. What will be cut to death this time? We can all clearly see it shouldn't be healthcare but something will have to give.
Iran is starting it’s third wave, having had a second wave in June/July which would contradict the idea of it being seasonal.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iran-coronavirus-third-wave-resurgence-infections
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/452503/Third-wave-of-COVID-19-looming-in-Iran
All the sheeple in Iran being oppressed!!!1!! It's just a cold!
searched Iran deaths graph covid there and looked at their curves for infections and deaths. Oddly, their rate of infections has been fairly stable, but the deaths have peaked and troughed. I wonder what's the deal with that. It might be worth looking at their regular curve for sick season to see how it compares.
Then the Tehran Times article said this:
QuoteMohammad Reza Shanehsaz, head of the Food and Drug Administration, has warned that the nation needs to prepare for a 'second and third wave' of coronavirus in October and November until a vaccine is developed.
"There is no doubt that the second and third waves of the virus will hit the country," he stated.
So is it the second wave, third wave or they anticipate a second or third wave or what is it they mean?
Edit: Another thing. The notion of it being seasonal in nature means that it will be expected to climb in numbers here any time around now, but if the idea of there not being as many of the most susceptible folks around to get it this time around is sound, it shouldn't get to the same levels of deaths and hover around somewhere in the normal expected range. Only time will tell.
In the meantime, I think everyone should continue to observe personal hygiene protocol, avoid crowded indoor spaces, and be especially mindful of the old and infirm. There will certainly be no harm in doing any of that.
Quote from: Ducky on September 19, 2020, 12:09:50 PM
All the sheeple in Iran being oppressed!!!1!! It's just a cold!
They should've worn face bikinis.
Just reading there that hospital bed occupancy from covid patients is up to 21% now in Madrid. Looked up that Doctor Luis de Benito who gave the interview all the anti-s latched onto and generalized a month back, but he doesn't seem to have said anything since; everything he stated in that video is now no longer - locally at least - the case apparently.
I didn't think he was saying it wasn't a thing in itself, more that it was being over-hyped by the media. The numbers being higher now doesn't exactly take anything from the validity of what he was saying at the time as it seemed he was only calling it as it was and trying to expose the media for what they were doing. Their shouting down of his opinion and also their cutting of his interview showed them for what they are. If the reporting of this was more balanced, I don't even think there would be an anti side to much of an extent, and it is debatable if governments would have responded in the same fashion.
I'd still like to hear what he has to say this minute all the same
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 19, 2020, 03:03:43 PM
Just reading there that hospital bed occupancy from covid patients is up to 21% now in Madrid. Looked up that Doctor Luis de Benito who gave the interview all the anti-s latched onto and generalized a month back, but he doesn't seem to have said anything since; everything he stated in that video is now no longer - locally at least - the case apparently.
He was interviewed in July/August when no schools were ack, half of Madrid had left on holidays. They were running a doom narrative and he was saying that in the current moment there was no high levels etc. They're issollaaating certaiin areas in Madrid now, baes being shut, parks etc. I can't help but feel adolescents and young adults are a major issue..massive house parties, knacker drinking etc. Kinda don't blame the tbh but they seem to be the source everyone is pointimg to. Also poorer neighbourhoods where people live in tiny apartments and ffs they need to get out on the street to live a little, but seems to be responsible for infections.
All that said, the paranoia levels are through the roof. Spaniards are notorious hypochondriacs at the best of times. We have to wear masks all the time now in our office. 6 people in a massive office with far more than 2 metres between people. Headmelting
Just throwing this up here, I have no argument for or against. Ssounds like it was an interesting connversation:
https://youtu.be/30fAbXquGf8
https://youtu.be/30fAbXquGf8
That seems like an objectively interesting point from Sunetra Gupta, unfortunately extremely inarticulately communicated.
I wasn't trying to say that what Luis de Benito said a month ago (13th August) wasn't accurate then (although whoever he is [a gastro-enterologist apparently https://www.topdoctors.es/doctor/luis-miguel-benito-de-benito] he fairly wore his agenda on his sleeve, especially when he lost the plot towards the end of the now famous interview, advancing that the media hadn't sufficiently communicated the gravity of the situation well enough when the hospitals were initially overrun in March). No; what I was saying is that the interview was absorbed as part of the arsenal of the anti-xyz movement and turned into a generalized anti-xyz argument rather than the description of a specific moment and place of the pandemic's overall evolution that it was. When astgfly posted it about a week ago, for example, it was already an inaccurate reflection of the reality on the ground in Madrid, yet it's still being pushed to support an agenda that empirically it no longer can. In light of that, was it irresponsible for a gastro-enterologist to go on the national news and hint at sweeping conclusions from discreet observations? I'll leave that one up in the air for consideration in good faith.
I think I only reposted that video to show somebody who hadn't seen it after a request. I think his general point with the media still stands and the thing I like about it is that it shows the media for the shit stirring bollixes that they really are. So I don't know if he was being irresponsible, as I don't have access to the figures this minute of how hospitalisations ebb and flow during the course of a normal year in Madrid. I doubt the fact he is a gastro-enterologist has much or indeed any bearing on his observation as he can surely be considered as being on the front line by being a doctor in that hospital at all. He certainly has a better handle on it than the two reporters who were insistent on selling panic when at the time, it wasn't the case at all and even still may not be. Saying he is not right now is like pulling up a video of me saying in August that the weather is fantastic and then replaying it in November to show how it doesn't apply now.
I do agree with you about the anti-xyz thing though, and it reflects how I feel about the yellow vest protests. There is too little focus on any one thing in particular and more of a general "we're not happy with everything" idea going with them. I also think that the fact they are seen as anti-mask in particular is detrimental to any point they are making, given that the masks are the least of the issue with how the response has been handled in this country. Anyone who wants should be more than welcome to wear a mask as I see it, and I think the vast majority would likely do it without it being mandatory. I also think all of the stuff about masks being physically harmful is a bit of a stretch of the imagination, but there is a certain mental conditioning at play as much as any risk reduction they might or might not provide.
Some interesting science behind the testing strategies and implications here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02661-2?utm_source=fbk_nnc&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=naturenews&sf237958960=1
That is indeed interesting, and could see the end of everyone being presumed infectious. The strange thing about this is that a chap I used to go to school with runs a company who have been making these tests since last March and at the time it was being touted as a game changer and his company had delivered the first 5000 kits to Irish hospitals. Then it seems the health authorities didn't follow up on it, although the company was still shipping them internationally. Looking at his twitter feed there now and there is nothing much about it since a photo of him ready to ship tests back in May. It probably wasn't accepted as being accurate enough at the time, or not available in the numbers needed or something. Cool to see the idea come back into play all the same.
Just found out that on Friday the minister for whatever here in France announced that all crèche workers will have to wear masks all day from now on. Awesome environment for our kids' development! ffs
Yeah it figures. Sure no point looking at all the evidence worldwide that the risk of small kids passing it to adults is negligible. Where my kids are in junior infants, the teacher wears the utterly pointless plastic visor so at least they can see the teacher's face and it feels like something resembling normal. Hopefully the teachers in France will follow suit.
Fed up to utter fuck with it all. There's a peak starting again and they are locking down counties. Talking about trying to get the numbers back down again. Grand. Then what? Open things back up again, let the numbers rise again, have another peak, close down again, repeat ad nauseam? Utter shite.
I know three people died yesterday, which is no joke, but any idea of their age or if they were otherwise ill?
This half existence ain't living.
Agreed
That's the spirit!
What's the spirit? I mean, I'm following the ludicrous rules because I can't say I have the answers myself, but it seems like a Groundhog Day scenario.
Questioning the logic of it all was what I meant
I get ya. Yeah, I mean, I'm no conspiracy theorist by any stretch and I always instinctively cringe away from those lines of reasoning, so I'm not a Corona denier. I just think that in solving one problem we are creating another one. It's a catch 22 scenario.
Sometime in July i decided to move on with my life,been to the pub plenty of times,was in Killarney over the August bank holiday,was in Wexford for a few days.Few of us going out for the Liverpool/Chelsea game later in the city.My kids have been in various camps during the summer,i catapulted them in the door of the school the min it opened.
There was a headline in the Echo the other day 'Covid admission on the rise in Cork hospitals' ,there was 4 people in hospital!
I genuinely feel sorry for the people locked down again,a waste of time imo.I do miss going to gigs and football matches,both a massive part of my life.
As long as someone isnt right up in my face im good, Wash and sanitize and look after your own space,get on with your life,pointless walking around a paranoid mess full of worrie.
That's the way I reckon. There will come a time when we're all just going to have to throw caution to the wind unless they find a vaccine.
A line of reasoning that has been thrown around a lot is 'They aren't doing it for no reason' i.e. the politicians. I don't believe the conspiracy stuff, I think we should take precautions, but I also wouldn't underestimate the ability of politicians to embrace anything that keeps them 'looking good' and diverts attention away from very real issues in the economy, health system etc. I have a feeling that if they begin to downplay this and once everyone taked their eyes off the main issue, the consequences, the economy, the reperscussions, are going to blow over them like a tidal wave. Now, is it their fault..probably not. But we all know the way the public reacts, looking for someone to hang. So, there are very real reasons for keeping us all a little edgy and preoccupied, it's not a conspiracy type scenario, but something far more human.
We're just going to have to ride it out over the next few months and see where that takes us.
I agree with the last 3 posts.
The grand conspiracy thing doesn't get me going either but the fact remains that while our economy and freedoms are being eroded, a lot of folks in private industries are likely to make a sickening amount of money out of this, so I see it as a pandemic of opportunism as much as an actual pandemic. Couple that then with the political game which needs to be played out, as Pedrito says and here we are.
I also don't have the answers and still follow all of the rules, but I can't accept that this is the way forward and the evidence against the approach taken is mounting, and so have been getting on with living in the same way Paul Keohane describes there.
Let's not forget that the shutdowns were informed by computer modelling which is being proven to be inaccurate from the real world data, and yet all governments and health advisory task forces are still working on the presumption that this modelling is indeed accurate, completely ignoring the fact that the models assumed that nobody had any immunity to it at all. So the hospitals never did get overrun with the sick and dying as was expected but that made not a blind bit of difference to the methods employed to stop the spread. So we all sit here in this limbo while the Swedes get on with their lives and won't be paying the price for the next decade or so while we of course will be paying through the nose.
So fuck does this ever need to be questioned, as even those who don't know the answer can see that this is not it.
Here, it's high time a little humour was injected into this discussion..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZNWzAlqFpA
Even more high time now...
Even as far as people's mental health goes, the prolonging of frankly nutty rules like how many people and from how many households may meet up at once, plus the complete shut down of so many avenues of leisure- aspects of life that are integral you our well being- and knowing we can't travel, or can only travel to certain places etc. is detrimental, I think. Particularly now that schools are open again. There is zero consistency to the approach.
My wife was saying she heard an expert saying that the masks have been effective in an unforseen way. By mingling in the community with people who have Covid, and sharing miniscule amounts of droplets through the masks, it seems people have developed some level of immunity to the virus in a quite natural way. So maybe proceeding with normal life but with the minor adjustments of social distancing, wearing masks and washing hands regularly, might be the solution.
The suspended animation approach was a perfectly lucid short term approach but fuck this shite six months down the road.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2020, 02:41:52 PM
So the hospitals never did get overrun with the sick and dying as was expected
Not too sure on that, it's only anecdotal but everyone herself works with said March and April were absolutely hell to work through with how busy it was, as worst as they've ever seen it, but then the decimation to the health service would have something to answer to there
I think I'm pretty much at the point that the whole approach has to be reconsidered. They pushed for schools to reopen, and then start locking down because of a rise in cases? The contradictory idea of its grand to go for a few pints now, but fathers aren't allowed into maternity hospitals?
I'm certainly not getting into any of the mad conspiracy stuff, but a clear definite road forward needs to be announced instead of the reactionary groundhog bollocks they're doing at the moment
I think we need to lay the conspiracy stuff to rest and just get into honest questioning of the whole lark.
So, imagine you're a policy maker right now, at this moment in Ireland. What do you do?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 20, 2020, 07:52:02 PM
So, imagine you're a policy maker right now, at this moment in Ireland. What do you do?
Fall asleep during a Dáil session?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 20, 2020, 07:52:02 PM
So, imagine you're a policy maker right now, at this moment in Ireland. What do you do?
Quote from: Trev on September 20, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
Fall asleep during a Dáil session?
:laugh:
I persist with the idea that we are trying to slowly work our way through a deadly epidemic, and slowly try to bring things back to normal at a pace that seems like it is the public who are to blame for the fact we are still in this situation, and hand all of my decisions over to a task force so that I can say I'm only acting on best expert advice for the good of us all, until someone comes up with a vaccine and then we can say we are saved and celebrate.
If it was honestly me and not an actual politician, I would say hey lads we did the thing we thought was best for you all and we tried to keep you all safe but now that we see it didn't turn out as was predicted we are going to open the whole lot up, advise caution as in regular flu season, beef up infection control in nursing homes or otherwise vulnerable settings, ditch the mass testing and concentrate on the sick people and use the number of hospitalisations as the meter for any future response measures and review the situation every week. I would also make the health service fit for purpose so that if anything like this was to happen in the future we would be in a robust position to deal with it, although that is playing the long game rather than the 5 year plan we usually make. But that is fairytale stuff.
What approach would you take yourself?
Edit: Here is an interesting tale that may be somewhere in the ballpark of what is going on around the world at the moment. All perfectly innocent and understandable and involves no conspiracy. It is sort of how I feel about the current situation although there are a lot more variables and the media hype and saturation to contend with this time around. It is especially pertinent to the nursing home situation, where deaths were written on without any form of test whatsoever, and entirely due to circumstantial evidence:
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html
This caught me off guard: French people admiring Ireland's five level plan. That should go some way to letting you know how fucked things are elsewhere, at least!
https://twitter.com/TBaubet/status/1307721101682913280?s=19
Quote from: Trev on September 20, 2020, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2020, 02:41:52 PM
So the hospitals never did get overrun with the sick and dying as was expected
I'm certainly not getting into any of the mad conspiracy stuff, but a clear definite road forward needs to be announced instead of the reactionary groundhog bollocks they're doing at the moment
The road forward is a series of opening up and locking down until a vaccine comes along next year. I recall a HSE Consultant on another forum outlining this way back in March, and commentating on how more and more people would lose confidence in the approach the longer this policy went on. For sure the contradictory messaging does not help matters. The alternative is just letting it run through the community, but at present most people do not want to see that happen. Although, the longer this goes on more people will begin to embrace that idea. If a successful Vaccine does not become available by April next year it maybe that we end up reaching a tipping point. Will the government then decide to let it rip through the community, knowing that the Health Service may not be able to cope. Will it come to a point where that is seen as the unavoidable option. I don't envy the people having to make these calls.
Quote from: Cailleach on September 20, 2020, 10:29:54 PM
Quote from: Trev on September 20, 2020, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 20, 2020, 02:41:52 PM
So the hospitals never did get overrun with the sick and dying as was expected
I'm certainly not getting into any of the mad conspiracy stuff, but a clear definite road forward needs to be announced instead of the reactionary groundhog bollocks they're doing at the moment
The road forward is a series of opening up and locking down until a vaccine comes along next year. I recall a HSE Consultant on another forum outlining this way back in March, and commentating on how more and more people would lose confidence in the approach the longer this policy went on. For sure the contradictory messaging does not help matters. The alternative is just letting it run through the community, but at present most people do not want to see that happen. Although, the longer this goes on more people will begin to embrace that idea. If a successful Vaccine does not become available by April next year it maybe that we end up reaching a tipping point. Will the government then decide to let it rip through the community, knowing that the Health Service may not be able to cope. Will it come to a point where that is seen as the unavoidable option. I don't envy the people having to make these calls.
Yeah it's the contradictory elements I really have issue with more than anything. If they put out the reasoning behind them more transparently I reckon people would have a bit more faith in them. Although they could have and I just haven't seen it, been a bit fatigued with the whole thing recently and haven't been paying much attention to the news
I guess as well its putting a lot of hope in a vaccine, if that never comes around, or is years away, will it just be a case of constant opening up and locking down which won't be sustainable either?
Have a read of this if interested in another opinion on it all:
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/open-letter/
Great read. It doesn't say how many doctors support it from what I see?
They are all listed on one of the tabs on the top of the page. I'd have to look into them all to prove they are not Dr Nick Riviera though. If what it says is true, it's great news anyway.
Interesting site. You have recent Nobel prize winners as signatories on letters, Robert Kennedy Jr amongst many others. All in the drop down menu as you say.
https://docs4opendebate.be/en/doctors-initiatives/
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 04:30:10 PM
Do you get a vanilla McFlurry to go with that vanilla sex life?
Imagine thinking not being a degenerate is a bad thing.
That letter is a great read.
This seemingly says it's over now in Sweden, as they have developed herd immunity, while previously lauded countries like New Zealand still have a long road ahead:
https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/
Lund University (I think) have done a study with blood test analysis from 160 people that can predict how ill a person will be if they get covid. If they can turn this into a useable test it will be a game changer for lockdown and can be used to prioritise vaccination.
Sweden are offering to help other EU countries with severely ill Covid-19 patients. The ECMO (Extracorpeal membrane oxgenation) center in Stockholm can take up to 30 patients and has it's own jet to move patients.
ECMO machines oxygenate the blood outside the body and allow the lungs to heal and recover.
Speaking of Universities, I'm starting first year of a music degree course today. We're only allowed to enter the campus for our class, and we have to vacate it immediately after. We're only timetabled to be in for 1 day, every 3 weeks. We're not allowed to use the uni's allocated rehersal rooms to jam together, not even for solo practice, due to Department of Health guidelines. All the weekly Big Band and Jazz Ensembles are cancelled until further notice. But the same guidelines say that contact sports such as Football, Hurling, Karate, Rugby and everyfucking thing else is grand. The uni has sent out an email saying that any student caught to be in breach of covid regulations will be immediately suspended.
Some fucking learning environment.
Quote from: Bigmac on September 21, 2020, 09:10:43 AM
Quote from: Ducky on September 18, 2020, 04:30:10 PM
Do you get a vanilla McFlurry to go with that vanilla sex life?
Imagine thinking not being a degenerate is a bad thing.
That letter is a great read.
This seemingly says it's over now in Sweden, as they have developed herd immunity, while previously lauded countries like New Zealand still have a long road ahead:
https://sebastianrushworth.com/2020/09/19/covid-19-does-sweden-have-herd-immunity/
So that's a hard "yep" then, thanks.
Just on the news there,88 cases in hospital,16 of those in ICU.Thats 6 months into a pandemic ,out of population of 5 million.
Quote from: Giggles on September 21, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
But the same guidelines say that contact sports such as Football, Hurling, Karate, Rugby and everyfucking thing else is grand.
Is that Dublin or elsewhere? I was told my Muay Thai gym had to close, but it's all a bit confusing.
The lead graph used in the Whitty/Vallance communication in the UK this morning was an exponential curve, leading up to 50,000 daily cases around mid-October, literally entitled (including the italics!): "If doubling occurred every seven days what would it look like?"
:-[
If I had to design some kind of black-ops communiquée designed to feed the "anti-all measures", "they're after our freedoms" movement, I couldn't have done better.
It's that sort of modelling that got us where we are now. Extremely unhelpful projections and proven now to be so far off the mark it's beyond embarrassing. Also 50,000 cases does not equate to 50,000 hospitalisations, as what exactly is a case has been skewed out of all proportion. And when this doesn't come true (which it won't) there will be some other bullshit pulled out of someone's arse to further the narrative as needed. And for what?
We are being bombarded day in day out with news bulletins and radio ads and signs everywhere and little arrows to follow around the shops and every aspect of our lives affected and yet where are all the sick people? What we actually have is a pandemic of healthy people, who may or may not even be what one might call infected.
When the news will only tell one side of a story, and will not stray from the government's story it is not news it is propaganda. Look at the Late Late Show for example. I had the misfortune of witnessing it last Friday and I know why almost everyone is still buying into this. The vast majority of people just refuse to believe that the likes of RTE and the national radio broadcasters might not be telling them all there is to know and can't contemplate the idea that the news outlets are simply slaves to their government paymasters at the end of the day. Even the small broadcasters are earning their crust running government sponsored ads with a nice voice telling us not to forget for one minute that we need to be afraid. And speaking of one sided, where is the actual opposition to the government this minute? Labour? PBP? Sinn Fein? They are all singing from the same hymn sheet, every single one of them. Surely to someone other than me that has to smell a bit rotten.
And most unfortunately of all, it isn't even a case of anyone being after our freedoms but they are sure taking them away all the same. Sure look at the 5 point plan - "Imprison yourselves or we will imprison you". And most people will thank them for keeping them safe all the same - "Well we didn't behave so it's only fair we are punished for our own good". It has to be some sort of Stockholm syndrome type of thing. I keep saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and we are going farther and farther down that road.
Yet at the same time, I feel that more and more people are starting to feel as I do, having been supportive of it all in the beginning when the reality hadn't become apparent. I genuinely feel bad for all the people I see going around terrorized by the invisible enemy every day when the only way any of this is affecting them is indirectly through the mitigation measures. It isn't the fault of the government that they were sucked in, but it is their fault when they persist with the scaremongering in the face of the mounting evidence against what they are doing.
This Professor Gupta seems to have a very level headed approach to the whole thing. From what I can tell she doesn't have an agenda to follow though god forbid if they find out she voted Boris for lord mayor or something similar she won't be invvited back.
https://youtu.be/UtUzI5kYD8o
Quote from: Pedrito on September 21, 2020, 04:13:02 PM
This Professor Gupta seems to have a very level headed approach to the whole thing. From what I can tell she doesn't have an agenda to follow though god forbid if they find out she voted Boris for lord mayor or something similar she won't be invvited back.
https://youtu.be/UtUzI5kYD8o
Great to see someone getting their voice heard with another angle besides the lockdown strategy. The most sense I have heard Jaz Coleman speak in a long time
Edit: Just came across this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV1IZVT_LCE
But we all know history never repeats itself, right?
But...COVID19 behaves nothing like swine flu at the population level. If COVID19 really was a huge hoax, and big pharma really did have as much power as some think (not denying they have power, just that it does have its limits), then they could have done what's happening now with swine flu; in other words, had swine flu led to thousands of people turning up in emergency rooms all over the world, they could have marked down everyone who died "with" it as having died "of" it, to borrow the not-nearly-as-clever-as-they-think distinction the anti-xyzers are so fond of. But that didn't happen. The swine flu panic farted away like an untied balloon, simply because, well, reality didn't oblige big pharma! So, while there are one or two noticeable but fairly trivial similarities between the two, there just isn't anything that we can learn from the swine flu chapter about how to deal with COVID19.
Swine flu wasn't a hoax. You are right in saying it doesn't help us to learn how to deal with it. What we can learn is not to over hype the response and be careful of who is pushing the solutions. I know you think I'm a full-on theorist but it isn't really like that. I just like to push the idea of questioning things. So like when the whole died of it or with it argument is pushed to say that almost nobody died of it I don't run with that either, but I do think it is important to draw the distinction and the news and the daily reports never do that. Their whole game is to spread the panic and keep us all glued to it. The swine flu to me (and I honestly didn't even know it was even supposed to be a pandemic at the time) didn't ever really catch on because the coverage wasn't at such a level of saturation or anywhere near it at the time. All I remember of it was a few things on the walls telling me to wash my hands. This one deserves a bit more than that, but still nowhere near what it has gotten. And yeah the irony is not lost on me that I post the most in this thread. But I am more of a hardcore questioner than a theorist and all the questions around the response and the continuing in-my-face-all-day nature of the current situation are leading me towards thinking that something is just very off with it all at this stage. The video above that, that I replied to is the sort of common sense and 2 sides to the story we should have been exposed to from the beginning and we wouldn't be in this rotten situation.
I see the Crobar in London has closed its door thanks to covid19. As someone said to me it was a shithole, but a good shithole:) after a gig in London
Quote from: Bigmac on September 21, 2020, 01:35:06 PM
Quote from: Giggles on September 21, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
But the same guidelines say that contact sports such as Football, Hurling, Karate, Rugby and everyfucking thing else is grand.
Is that Dublin or elsewhere? I was told my Muay Thai gym had to close, but it's all a bit confusing.
Derry
Quote from: Giggles on September 22, 2020, 11:08:58 AM
Quote from: Bigmac on September 21, 2020, 01:35:06 PM
Quote from: Giggles on September 21, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
But the same guidelines say that contact sports such as Football, Hurling, Karate, Rugby and everyfucking thing else is grand.
Is that Dublin or elsewhere? I was told my Muay Thai gym had to close, but it's all a bit confusing.
Derry
Ah sound, I'm in plague central, so I guess we aren't allowed batter each other again for another few weeks.
The kickback against Whitty and Vallance has gone mainstream:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/22/scientists-disagree-over-targeted-versus-nationwide-measures-to-tackle-covid
(Prof Sunetra Gupta features)
Quote from: Giggles on September 22, 2020, 11:08:58 AM
Quote from: Bigmac on September 21, 2020, 01:35:06 PM
Quote from: Giggles on September 21, 2020, 11:56:15 AM
But the same guidelines say that contact sports such as Football, Hurling, Karate, Rugby and everyfucking thing else is grand.
Is that Dublin or elsewhere? I was told my Muay Thai gym had to close, but it's all a bit confusing.
Londonderry.
:abbath:
:laugh:
I was disappointed no one got my Putrefy/Londonderry reference in the Cruiscin Lan thread... too many fuckin' blow-ins and weekend MI'ers! :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 22, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
:laugh:
I was disappointed no one got my Putrefy/Londonderry reference in the Cruiscin Lan thread... too many fuckin' blow-ins and weekend MI'ers! :abbath:
I have to admit that I didn't/don't get it. Then again, I can be slow at joining the dots.
Corey had some kind of blood vendetta against them on MI.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 22, 2020, 12:51:00 PM
Corey had some kind of blood vendetta against them on MI.
A bunch of people did iirc
Quote from: StoutAndAle on September 22, 2020, 12:49:38 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 22, 2020, 11:26:59 AM
:laugh:
I was disappointed no one got my Putrefy/Londonderry reference in the Cruiscin Lan thread... too many fuckin' blow-ins and weekend MI'ers! :abbath:
I have to admit that I didn't/don't get it. Then again, I can be slow at joining the dots.
It happened quite a few times over the years that Conor from Putrefy referred to Derry as Londonderry on MI, just spontaneously I presume (Conor having always been a bang on lad, I found), but more than once it led to forum ructions.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 22, 2020, 11:15:41 AM
The kickback against Whitty and Vallance has gone mainstream:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/22/scientists-disagree-over-targeted-versus-nationwide-measures-to-tackle-covid
(Prof Sunetra Gupta features)
Something tells me that Whitty and Valance will win the day on this one, to the detriment of everyone else, even the risk groups that they speak of protecting.
I came across a bit of a read about the RT-PCR tests last night, and I'd like to hear what you in particular think of it as the only one here with experience and knowledge of them. I know everything is a minefield and god knows the motivations behind anything, but if you have the time to rubbish this one for me it'd be great. Makes interesting reading for anyone if true and supports the Heneghan/Gupta line of thinking of basing the response on numbers of sick people and not simply "cases". Here anyway: https://bpa-pathology.com/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/ It seems to be saying that they are meaningless as a diagnostic tool because of how accurate they are, not because of their inaccuracy and that they were never intended for that purpose.
And for anyone else who wants to hear the not so shoved in our faces reporting on the situation so far here is what appears to be independent reporting on it (though who knows what is the motivation for anything anymore) https://cassandravoices.com/science-environment/science/covid-19-in-ireland-elusive-facts/
Heard a joke a while back.. What is the only city in the world with 6 silent letters in its' name? Derry.
It would take a week to go through all the things that article picks out, which would be time wasted since I keep repeating my agreement that the number of cases overall is not the most important figure. Personally, I do think it is important though, because it provides one of the upper limits in calculating proportions, and they are important. For example (with "daily" meaning "average daily over 7 days"), "daily tests: daily confirmed positive cases", "daily confirmed positive cases: daily confirmed symptomatic positive cases", "daily confirmed positive cases: daily hospitalizations", and so on. In other words, it's the proportions that count, that really matter, not any of the specific values in isolation.
I will say, because it's fundamental to how science advances, that whatever purpose Kary Mullis (who, besides being a brilliant scientist, was also an absolute head-the-ball, which is an entertaining story in itself) intended PCR to be used for is absolutely independent of what purposes it can be used for. In fact, it's particularly ironic in the case of genetics to use "not the intended purpose" as an argument, since the entire science of genetics is based on us discovering how to creatively co-opt (i.e. "hack") biological functions and use them for something they were absolutely not "intended" for in nature. The PCR method itself is a canonical example of that.
Quote from: lifeeternal on September 22, 2020, 01:16:02 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 22, 2020, 12:51:00 PM
Corey had some kind of blood vendetta against them on MI.
A bunch of people did iirc
We played with them years ago in Ballymoney or wherever they are from, and after emerging from the bass player's gaff in a hungover haze the next morning, I noticed (you couldn't miss the fucker) the house across the way had a massive UDA flag in the front garden. I got extremely paranoid about the reg on the car, and like the old Harp lager said, 'time for a quick exit'!
We went by train when we played there and very self-consciously walked up the Union Jack bunting decorated main street towards the venue :laugh:
Anathema gone on indefinite hiatus ->
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p843x403/120075444_10158682760308629_359938165411572617_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=75vpqWBHE6EAX9gDr3M&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&tp=6&oh=3c5d28565356b75f4820b9dc36fd72e0&oe=5F90379D)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 22, 2020, 04:41:29 PM
It would take a week to go through all the things that article picks out, which would be time wasted since I keep repeating my agreement that the number of cases overall is not the most important figure. Personally, I do think it is important though, because it provides one of the upper limits in calculating proportions, and they are important. For example (with "daily" meaning "average daily over 7 days"), "daily tests: daily confirmed positive cases", "daily confirmed positive cases: daily confirmed symptomatic positive cases", "daily confirmed positive cases: daily hospitalizations", and so on. In other words, it's the proportions that count, that really matter, not any of the specific values in isolation.
I will say, because it's fundamental to how science advances, that whatever purpose Kary Mullis (who, besides being a brilliant scientist, was also an absolute head-the-ball, which is an entertaining story in itself) intended PCR to be used for is absolutely independent of what purposes it can be used for. In fact, it's particularly ironic in the case of genetics to use "not the intended purpose" as an argument, since the entire science of genetics is based on us discovering how to creatively co-opt (i.e. "hack") biological functions and use them for something they were absolutely not "intended" for in nature. The PCR method itself is a canonical example of that.
I did end up reading a little about Kary Mullis as I was going and the whole HIV doesn't cause AIDS thing, which is new to me and I don't have an opinion on. Fair point about intention there though, there are many examples of things invented for one purpose and used for another very well. The part that was really getting me going is the bit at the end when the authors said there is no way to test the test itself beyond doing something which hasn't been done so far, and the responses from the four study authors at the end were interesting in that sense.
There was another link within the text of that one which went into much greater detail including a bit of an interview with Mullis himself, but the first paragraph or two were all anti Bill Gates stuff, so I didn't bother quoting that one. It's an extremely interesting debate to me though, given how the whole response to the current situation is based on these tests, that there is such a question mark over what exactly it is that they are telling us. Sort of a bad way to make decisions affecting billions of people worldwide given the unknowns involved. So not saying that the test appears to give false positives as such, but that the data it provides can be very misleading in terms of what is actually going on. It certainly hasn't been mentioned on RTE or Newstalk or indeed anywhere mainstream that I've seen other than the NY Times so far.
The article about the whooping cough here https://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/health/22whoop.html seems to be a similar situation where the results of the tests weren't telling what was going on, and not saying that they were wrong either.
Ah balls. I love all Anathema's stuff, old and new.
Reckon they will be back at it as soon as things get going again. The indefinite nature of their hiatus is surely due to the indefinite nature of everything this minute. It will be surprising if they are the only ones doing this in the near future as I don't know about the UK but the arts have been thrown down and pissed on in this country anyway
Bet you a tenner they come back fully recovered from the gay and release a savage doom death album!
Oh I didn't spot this lol I fired a thread up in the main forum.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 22, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
Bet you a tenner they come back fully recovered from the gay and release a savage doom death album!
Fuck sake Andy.... :laugh:
We should be so lucky.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 22, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
Bet you a tenner they come back fully recovered from the gay and release a savage doom death album!
Be better than that sort of poor man's Radiohead they have been peddling
:laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 22, 2020, 07:45:01 PM
Bet you a tenner they come back fully recovered from the gay and release a savage doom death album!
I dunno about them but I'm finding it hard to recover from this bombshell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypERSiLg_I
:'(
Have we ever seen propaganda like this? Really now, no matter what anyone thinks or doesn't think about the whole covid thing, this is what I pay 160 quid for every year and had to go to court when I didn't. Just listen to him.... "didn't want any more of your beautiful grandparents to die"... "the vaccine is coming". On about half a million a year of licence payers money. Not scaremongering or anything like just listen to his poetic description of the horror that we avoided by locking down even though the evidence points to it making fuck all difference.
Jesus that was painful to watch. 'Don't stop.washing your hands'. Cheers for that Ryan!
Saw that last friday night and still feel sick as a dog after it.
Imagine being 85 years old, seeing no-one, barely even family (and even they are acting all weird all the time now) because they are all afraid to kill you off with the virus and terrorized all day long because all you watch is RTE (ah sure wasn't that Mike Murphy a great character) and then watching this rotten bastard give that spiel into your face while you religiously sanitise your hands because you are so fried thinking about the invisible enemy that you managed to avoid for 8 decades but now the pale horse is coming if you don't stay away from everyone and here he is, this prick after telling you the vaccine is coming so #holdfirm in sheer terror but with that tiny glimmer of false hope that cunt is selling you through the same tv show you have been watching for 50 years. An actual crime against humanity.
I met a woman in her 70's the other day and told her to stop watching the news and she says "I'm down to one news a day, because all I hear about is this oul virus". That was after she told me the hotel wouldn't give her tea and toast because it didn't cost 9 quid and sure it is a licensed premises after all. No shit, that actually happened. But sure it's for her own protection so that's grand.
We're living in an actual shitshow. Time to RISE BRRRROOOOTHERRRRRS....!! :abbath:
One of my good friends dad died suddenly the last day but we weren't allowed into the church but it's grand to have the pubs open. Makes no fuckin sense at all.
The stupidity of this whole thing is growing by the day. No matter what level of fear anyone is at, surely the nonsensical nature of all of this is becoming more and more apparent to even the most fervent of lockdown enthusiasts.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/let-coronavirus-spread-through-under-60-population-d%C3%A1il-committee-told-1.4361858
Quote
Coronavirus should be let spread amongst people below 60 in a controlled way, the Dáil's Covid-19 committee has been told.
Sweden's former chief epidemiologist Dr Johan Giesecke recommends that the virus be let spread through the population alongside a programme that concentrates on the "old and frail" and that frequently tests staff and residents in care homes.
Mr Giesecke has also told the Government not to build its Covid-19 strategy around the imminent advent of a vaccine, stating: "We might have to wait for it and it may not be very effective in those who need it most."
Furthermore, Ireland should also stop aiming for Covid-free status or even for levels as low as in July at the end of lockdown, the president of the Irish Society of Clinical Microbiology, Kirsten Schaffer, is to tell the committee.
I wouldn't get my hopes up, but it's refreshing to see this angle being brought up to the Dail for what I believe is the first time, at least publicly. Regardless of what side of the open de pubs/herd immunity/measured opening/full lockdown fence you fall on, it's really felt for quite some time now like the current FF/FG/NPHET status quo stalemate has been the only solution given any sort of official credence.
Quote from: blessed1 on September 23, 2020, 10:58:14 AM
One of my good friends dad died suddenly the last day but we weren't allowed into the church but it's grand to have the pubs open. Makes no fuckin sense at all.
I get what your saying,i was at a funeral earlier,fucking massive crowd at it,no one in the church,but the road lined with people.If people were allowed into the Church there would be the urge to shake a hand or embrace someone i guess.
Letting healthy under 60s sounds great in theory. Except for those healthy folk who are fucked up from it weeks and months after they first got it. And fuck knows the long term health impact.
Nein, danke.
Letting people decide their own level of risk and act accordingly sounds even better in theory.
Also, post viral fatigue is not exclusive to Covid-19 it is just being highlighted now as if it is a new thing. You were able to get on with your life this time last year with the exact same level of risk. What happened?
To be fair, I only heard about the healthy under 60s approach mentioned on the radio this morning so I haven't read your link.
The impression I got was that it was desirable to run rampant, burn out and all is rosy. That's all well and good if under 60s had no ill effects. Sadly not the case. I think enough of the population are "in fear" that they'd try protect themselves, and those around them, and not enough of the population would get it for it to burn out.
I think a simple tactic of going back to general 'flu season advice with extra emphasis put on infection control in nursing homes would do the trick.
The hard part from a government standpoint would be rowing back on all this shit. Who is going to say take down the perspex and pull up all the floor signs and we will get on with it as it is running its' course no matter what we do? No one, because then there would be hard questions as to why persist with this for so long, destroying the economy in the process. The simple answer is that we didn't know and that is the fair answer for anyone to give but no one will.
All of the effects of this thing are also consistent with a case of flu, including the after effects, but this has been blown up so much in the media that people have the impression that it is much worse than it is. The Swedes took the sensible approach and things aren't gone to ruin there. The results speak for themselves.
Go Sverige.... :abbath:
https://youtu.be/eI6M4ExbOgY
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 23, 2020, 02:35:49 PM
To be fair, I only heard about the healthy under 60s approach mentioned on the radio this morning so I haven't read your link.
The impression I got was that it was desirable to run rampant, burn out and all is rosy. That's all well and good if under 60s had no ill effects. Sadly not the case. I think enough of the population are "in fear" that they'd try protect themselves, and those around them, and not enough of the population would get it for it to burn out.
What illness has no ill effects, though? The clue's in the nomenclature.
I had a flu last year that knocked me on my arse for about a month. I don't think I appreciated how long the after effects actually were at the time, but for weeks afterwards I was getting absolutely knackered after my walks and a few pints had that empty stomach, drinking on antibiotics whack to them that didn't quite feel right.
I'm not rubbishing the seriousness of these effects - and the Just a Flu! crowd are full of shit - but there's going to be
some percentage of under 60s who get the raw end of the stick with virtually
anything. That's just...well...scope. Variance. The one in a hundred who takes his pants off and runs into the night on half a yoke while the rest of us are rubbing the back of our heads on the couch.
I'm not denying that long term complications may arise from this illness, but it's being leveraged as a bogeyman based largely on anecdotals what ifs rather than any great wealth of empirical data showing that under 65s have been rendered fucked from this thing in any great numbers.
Those numbers may come out more, by the way. It could be worse than muggins here thinks. But it also mightn't be, and that's where we revert back to what was above described succinctly as "Letting people decide their own level of risk and acting accordingly". All whilst at least trying to propagate a system of gradual immunity that may weaken the virus, in lieu of a vaccine that for now is a golden egg.
I'd strongly disagree about enough of the population being interested in this, either. The pubs would be packed like they used to this weekend if they could be, and live gigs would sell out not a bother. I'm not saying that should happen, but the appetite and Laissez-faire amongst the young is clearly there and has been demonstrated plenty over the past few weeks.
I heard it being described as ableist the other week to suggest that vulnerable people should opt out of situations that may put them at risk. Why? Surely those that can keep the economy going should, in order to pay for essential health services and the welfare of those who are currently unable to continue in their line of work? I'm only speaking of a small minority of people, of course - and I don't want to sound insensitive - but there's been impetus for a lot of bed wetting with this pandemic. And a lot of good guy badges being brandished by ordinary Joe Soaps who are now enjoying a certain hero citizen status for simply staying in and not licking their fucking snots.
She's a tricky one. You may be dead right and I may be dead wrong. I just feel that other avenues are worth exploring, and that this whole situation has grounds for a bit more flex and nuance than the churlish "Yeah but what if it was YOUR mam's funeral, eh, Mr. Western Decadence?" discourse some people have been pulling.
Apologies this spiel's in response to you, by the way. It was more a starting point for a sort of anthology of my most recent layman's thoughts on all of this :D
Quote from: Airneanach on September 23, 2020, 03:05:47 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 23, 2020, 02:35:49 PM
To be fair, I only heard about the healthy under 60s approach mentioned on the radio this morning so I haven't read your link.
The impression I got was that it was desirable to run rampant, burn out and all is rosy. That's all well and good if under 60s had no ill effects. Sadly not the case. I think enough of the population are "in fear" that they'd try protect themselves, and those around them, and not enough of the population would get it for it to burn out.
What illness has no ill effects, though? The clue's in the nomenclature.
I had a flu last year that knocked me on my arse for about a month. I don't think I appreciated how long the after effects actually were at the time, but for weeks afterwards I was getting absolutely knackered after my walks and a few pints had that empty stomach, drinking on antibiotics whack to them that didn't quite feel right.
I'm not rubbishing the seriousness of these effects - and the Just a Flu! crowd are full of shit - but there's going to be some percentage of under 60s who get the raw end of the stick with virtually anything. That's just...well...scope. Variance. The one in a hundred who takes his pants off and runs into the night on half a yoke while the rest of us are rubbing the back of our heads on the couch.
I'm not denying that long term complications may arise from this illness, but it's being leveraged as a bogeyman based largely on anecdotals what ifs rather than any great wealth of empirical data showing that under 65s have been rendered fucked from this thing in any great numbers.
Those numbers may come out more, by the way. It could be worse than muggins here thinks. But it also mightn't be, and that's where we revert back to what was above described succinctly as "Letting people decide their own level of risk and acting accordingly". All whilst at least trying to propagate a system of gradual immunity that may weaken the virus, in lieu of a vaccine that for now is a golden egg.
I'd strongly disagree about enough of the population being interested in this, either. The pubs would be packed like they used to this weekend if they could be, and live gigs would sell out not a bother. I'm not saying that should happen, but the appetite and Laissez-faire amongst the young is clearly there and has been demonstrated plenty over the past few weeks.
I heard it being described as ableist the other week to suggest that vulnerable people should opt out of situations that may put them at risk. Why? Surely those that can keep the economy going should, in order to pay for essential health services and the welfare of those who are currently unable to continue in their line of work? I'm only speaking of a small minority of people, of course - and I don't want to sound insensitive - but there's been impetus for a lot of bed wetting with this pandemic. And a lot of good guy badges being brandished by ordinary Joe Soaps who are now enjoying a certain hero citizen status for simply staying in and not licking their fucking snots.
She's a tricky one. You may be dead right and I may be dead wrong. I just feel that other avenues are worth exploring, and that this whole situation has grounds for a bit more flex and nuance than the churlish "Yeah but what if it was YOUR mam's funeral, eh, Mr. Western Decadence?" discourse some people have been pulling.
Apologies this spiel's in response to you, by the way. It was more a starting point for a sort of anthology of my most recent layman's thoughts on all of this :D
All very well put, and I'd agree with the majority of it, really. For me, there's still too many unknowns that I'd personally be willing to take a chance on getting it. That's me speaking as a self-confessed hypochondriac and yes, a huge raft of folk are dying to get out to the pubs etc.
On the pubs side of things, I suppose I've just changed my outlook and I'm happy enough drinking at home with a few friends out the garden. I was in the pub early on Sunday, grand distancing and felt very safe. But, would I go to a pub at 8pm til closing? Nope, cos I know that I'd be one of the eejits lepping around like a spa, hugging all and sundry. I don't think I'd be the only one who kinda thinks like that.
I think the "it's just a 'flu" argument is being blown out of proportion and used against the common sense of the debate. The little old flu kills millions worldwide every year, so it is no laughing matter either. The effect it had on you that you describe there is consistent to what influenza does to people. The idea of saying it is like the 'flu is that we don't shut down the world for it and it is always there and the golden egg of the vaccine is laid every year with wildly varying results. And we get on with life, not terrorized every day by our news reports with a running tally.
It just needs to stop, the whole publicity of it, and things could simply return to normal again with regular sick season advice and then anyone who wants to hide in their houses or mask up for the shopping is more than welcome to do so. We can even leave up the yellow signs reminding us to wash our hands if we like. But that should be it.
Speaking of the pubs, I would be willing this minute to go to a packed gig and jump all over the place full of drink no bother without being afraid in the slightest.
I have fuck all interest in the pubs. Easy to say now, but I don't think it'll ever come back. I hope they come back for the sake of the tourism buck - in good time - but the waxing lyrical "Sure tis part of our heritage, t'wouldn't be the same Ireland without 6.50 pints of craft IPA!" B.S. some publicans have come out with can do one. Traditions change, and one has to change their traditions and adapt with the current going ons. I'm fully in the flow of embracing what I can do now, so pre ordering the new Xbox and getting a few cans for the Saturday night is fine for me.
I've worked at being quite cheery and nonplussed about living in a (still comparatively comfortable) dystopia of sorts. You have to do something for yourself like that. At the start of lockdown I was still plastered in front of YouTube looking up videos of gigs I was at. It'll kill you. You have to let go. I couldn't give a shit now. Not in a nihilistic way, but because it's just best for my own head at the moment.
If they came back tomorrow? I'd be in the pit personally, yeah :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on September 23, 2020, 03:28:19 PM
Speaking of the pubs, I would be willing this minute to go to a packed gig and jump all over the place full of drink no bother without being afraid in the slightest.
And that's why the government is stuck. We have 2 very distinct camps, who can claim that their own perspective is the correct one.
I do all of my drinking in houses as it is. I should have clarified that there. I wouldn't be afraid of everyone else going into the pub as they did in 2019 though, not in the slightest. The easy way to deal with the 2 camps of people is to let them decide for themselves. If you feel it's risky don't do it. Be informed, not terrorized by the invisible enemy.
Bottom line,you walk into a pub,you sus out the surroundings.Your either happy or not with the clientele and the covid standards in that pub.If youre not happy,turn around and go to another pub,that how this works from now on.
I was out in cork city centre on sunday evening ,4 lads ,absolutely no hassle with social distancing.I went into my local on its reopening on Monday.All tables full,all covid practices in place,tbh it was shite,but very safe.
Pubs are a changed animal now from what i can see,but its up to every individual to choose which pub they feel safe in.
Yes the pubs are a bit shit now. I have been back in Ireland 7 weeks and I have been to the pub 6 or 7 times since then. The pubs are now basically what they were in Canada before all this shit started. You walk in are brought to a table then you are stuck at the table for the night the only reason for getting up is to use the toilet or if someone wants to smoke. All drinks are brought to the table (I wonder how long it's going to be before they start trying to introduce tipping) It's not bad for a quite drink but when it's like this each and every time you go out it gets boring very fast.
One of the local nightclubs has filled the premises up with tables and they basically blast music in exactly the same way as if you were in the pre virus nightclub but everyone has to stay seated so it's pretty shitty and I won't be going back there again.
Will be in Galway this weekend so it will be interesting to see what it's like down there. I am happy they got rid of those ridiculous meals and no matter what happens in the coming weeks I can't see that ever being brought back in.
QuoteDr Ronan Glynn said this evening "it's certainly not a strategy that will be adopted in this country".
Who the fuck put him in charge? So NPHET are running the country?
Didn't think so, the thick cunts.
Is there actually evidence that an "awful lot of young people MIGHT have to die"?
https://www.thejournal.ie/herd-immunity-nphet-5213262-Sep2020/
Ah, just realised that's the article your quote is from, astfgyl.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 23, 2020, 10:19:17 PM
QuoteDr Ronan Glynn said this evening "it's certainly not a strategy that will be adopted in this country".
Who the fuck put him in charge? So NPHET are running the country?
Didn't think so, the thick cunts.
Sweden has one of the lowest population density in Europe, behind Norway, Iceland. They closed secondary schools and universities, a 50 person limit for indoors, social distancing in pubs etc. Its currently getting daily numbers similar to the island of Ireland, its GDP was affected about as badly as our own. 22 people per square kilometre in Sweden, 77 in the Republic of Ireland. 2,400 people dies in Stockholm County, population of 2.3 million and where they are going to be adding more restrictions. The island of Ireland has around 6.6 million inhabitants with a death toll of around 2,500. Sweden healthcare system is vastly superior to ours
Gah, posted before I finished. People have been harping on about how great Sweden is even during the summer, particularly the Conservative British media, which I'm sure I don't need to point out are complete fuckwits. Also explain to me how the words of experts here who won't admit they are wrong because of the economic impact of the lock down are worth less than their Swedish counterparts who won't admit they fucked up because who wants to admit to killing someone's granny?
Anyways, I'm an at risk person, if you saw me on the street you would think there is nothing wrong with me, but a serious flu could make shit of me. I take more than enough precautions but I don't think asking the rest of society who are fortunate enough to be healthy and not give two fucks about others health, to wear a mask is too much to fucking ask for. Our health system will not cope if this thing runs through the country.
Quote from: lifeeternal on September 24, 2020, 08:44:54 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 23, 2020, 10:19:17 PM
QuoteDr Ronan Glynn said this evening "it's certainly not a strategy that will be adopted in this country".
Who the fuck put him in charge? So NPHET are running the country?
Didn't think so, the thick cunts.
Sweden has one of the lowest population density in Europe, behind Norway, Iceland. They closed secondary schools and universities, a 50 person limit for indoors, social distancing in pubs etc. Its currently getting daily numbers similar to the island of Ireland, its GDP was affected about as badly as our own. 22 people per square kilometre in Sweden, 77 in the Republic of Ireland. 2,400 people dies in Stockholm County, population of 2.3 million and where they are going to be adding more restrictions. The island of Ireland has around 6.6 million inhabitants with a death toll of around 2,500. Sweden healthcare system is vastly superior to ours
A huge percentage of Sweden's population lives in the south of the country, south of Sundsval.
That area is around the same size as the island of Ireland and probably has a population of over 8 million people. Very few Swedes actually live in the wilderness of the North.
Ireland has two large cities (if you can call them that) Dublin and Belfast. Our other cities probably wouldn't even be considered cities in most highly populated countries.
Sweden's 3 biggest cities have more population than all the cities and large towns on this island.
They're not doing too bad there considering things.
Sweden is 6 times the size of Ireland, they do not have 8 million inhabitants living in an area the size of this island in southern Sweden, they have 8 million people living in an area around 3 times the size of this island which 6.6 million people on it. Nearly four times as many Swedes live alone, its apples and oranges.
Quote from: lifeeternal on September 24, 2020, 09:46:28 AM
Sweden is 6 times the size of Ireland, they do not have 8 million inhabitants living in an area the size of this island in southern Sweden, they have 8 million people living in an area around 3 times the size of this island which 6.6 million people on it. Nearly four times as many Swedes live alone, its apples and oranges.
Yo nigga, I know Sweden inside out. I once did a stopover in Stockholm on the way to Santa's house.
Shut yo phace.... :abbath:
When you look at cities, population density is very similar.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 24, 2020, 10:19:42 AM
When you look at cities, population density is very similar.
Yes, but their large towns would be considered cities here.
Take Helsingborg for example. It has a population of well over 100,000.
I was agreeing with your point by saying that ;)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 24, 2020, 10:40:03 AM
I was agreeing with your point by saying that ;)
My fist word "yes" was for you. The rest was for d'udder fella. ;D
Quote from: lifeeternal on September 24, 2020, 08:44:54 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 23, 2020, 10:19:17 PM
QuoteDr Ronan Glynn said this evening "it's certainly not a strategy that will be adopted in this country".
Who the fuck put him in charge? So NPHET are running the country?
Didn't think so, the thick cunts.
Sweden has one of the lowest population density in Europe, behind Norway, Iceland. They closed secondary schools and universities, a 50 person limit for indoors, social distancing in pubs etc. Its currently getting daily numbers similar to the island of Ireland, its GDP was affected about as badly as our own. 22 people per square kilometre in Sweden, 77 in the Republic of Ireland. 2,400 people dies in Stockholm County, population of 2.3 million and where they are going to be adding more restrictions. The island of Ireland has around 6.6 million inhabitants with a death toll of around 2,500. Sweden healthcare system is vastly superior to ours
And tell me while you are here, what has all that got to do with NPHET thinking they are running the country? Yeah, nothing.
Edit:
QuoteAnyways, I'm an at risk person, if you saw me on the street you would think there is nothing wrong with me, but a serious flu could make shit of me.
This is a serious question. What did you do last year during 'flu season? Or the year before when there were 222 direct and over 600 indirect deaths from influenza? Did you ask everyone else to mask up and stay away from you? I'm honestly not taking it up with you personally and I can understand why you feel more anxious with this one but you have been sold a lie and it is still being peddled every day of the week on the national news.
This winter is going to be the greatest shitshow of all time because of these regulations and the effect they will have when combined with the normal increased uptake of beds for the winter season. The madness needs to stop because that is what it is, madness.
Quote from: Bigmac on September 24, 2020, 08:18:48 AM
Is there actually evidence that an "awful lot of young people MIGHT have to die"?
https://www.thejournal.ie/herd-immunity-nphet-5213262-Sep2020/
Ah, just realised that's the article your quote is from, astfgyl.
Yeah there is no evidence for it, but sure they can get away with straight up lies on the news now and no one cares
https://youtu.be/f1jV3tJ2Lqw
Funny part about that is that 4,000 out of 56 million gives a failure rate of 0.00714285714. That must be surely considered a success really. I was just putting it up to show how this is all happening on repeat but the world is ripe for the fear due to the connectivity and prevalence of social media these days.
The telegraph have an interesting article here about the UK's chief bullshit graph man: it's paywall, but the first sentence can be read and is unsurprising. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/23/revealed-sir-patrick-vallance-has-600000-shareholding-firm-contracted/ A lot of the NPHET boys are in a very similar boat.
Some little c#nt told me that my mask wasn't completely covering my nose the second I sat down on the 7.30 train this morning. To which I replied 'Go and fuck yourself you crazy bitch'. At least that's what it more or less translates to from Spanish. I can't imagine the amount of these busy body fucks that are just rubbing their hands with glee at all these rules and regulations.
Yeah I got a snarky remark when I was having a vape whilst waiting, nobody within a good two meters of me, at the zebra crossing the other day, and the daft hoor proceeded to cross while the gender fluid figure indicating whether you can walk or not was still red. Fuck off ya spastic.
Covid has unearthed a massive amount of busy body fucks in this country!
Lads. I will say two things in favour of the mask lark. It has given me some of the best laughs I've had in a long time looking at some of the carry on and also it was already mentioned, there are way better birds around all of a sudden.
On the down side, it has also turned half of the population into cunts. And depending on your viewpoint, that could be either half.
Kept mine on after coming out of the shop last night cos it was fucking freezing, mask kept me toasty. There's another plus.
The Donegal town where I live in has fewer cases than the national average, yet they lock the whole fucking county down. The fucking size of it like, it takes over 2 hours to drive the fucking length of it. But if you have to attend a wedding it's grand, carry on like. Fucking bollocks.
Creeping more and more into the mainstream...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/25/what-lessons-can-europe-learn-from-sweden-covid-19-experience
Chris, you must be happy enough that France isn't going into another lockdown..?
I think the citizens of most nations now have had the bejaysus scared into them and it's probably a good time to see how self control will pan out for a lot of countries.
Lockdowns alone aren't the answer any more. Common sense and good hygiene are the way forward with this thing.
Of course there will be plenty of bad knobs everywhere that will abuse the privilege but you'd expect the vast majority to adhere to the basic principles of trying to contain and help us move forward.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 25, 2020, 02:02:26 PM
Creeping more and more into the mainstream...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/25/what-lessons-can-europe-learn-from-sweden-covid-19-experience
About time. The data is coming out now and showing that locking down was a failed experiment. The only problem here is that the government won't take any notice of it. NPHET are gone mad with power here is a lot of the problem but every day I'm meeting more and more folks who think this whole thing is just gone way too far. Another few counties punished with the move to level 3 should sway it a fair bit now. I'd like to know how strong the public support for this is in Donegal this minute. How many bar workers went back to work on Monday only to be unemployed again by today?
I think people will put up with a lot as seen from the social control experiment of the last few months but this is just fucking people around. So like if some other town in tipp gets a lot of cases, I get locked down for doing all the right things? Nah it's bollix the whole lot. Hard luck to Giggles, I think it's a bullshit approach to what is now almost a non existent problem.
I'd say there's a whole cultural element to the Swedish thing that probably won't work elsewhere. It's like when we say we need to educate like the Finns, but their character, the way they do things and see things is very different to ours. All I can at this stage is that I am completely fucked off wearing a mask. Would love to be off up in a mountain hut with a years supply of tinned food miles away from humanity at this stage.
I would also love to be miles away from it all but I can't escape. :(
Agree about the Swedes though, but they are like a different breed altogether because they actually have something approaching faith in their political system. Sure their government even admitted to failings in the care homes but our government chose to blame the people the rotten little cunts. That is what they are, snakey rotten little cunts who are persisting with this new and perverse reaction to a virus because to do otherwise would be tantamount to an admission that they fucked it up by focusing on the wrong parts of society and trying to copy China (who in an amazing turn of events have no problem with Covid 19 now!!!). Edit: And the reason they persist is because that is the culture now, where decision making is deferred to "experts" with their ridiculous modelling which didn't come true, because nobody wants to be accountable for making a decision. That is endemic in modern compensation culture where everyone is afraid to actually have the balls to stand over a decision and grow a pair of balls.
Just imagine for a minute if the lab in Wuhan never discovered this novel coronavirus and there was no RT-PCR test used to detect it in the general population. Where would we be now? Nowhere is the answer. We would be looking forward to the weekend having enjoyed a normal summer. The funny thing about all of this is that a lot of folk seem to think it started in Wuhan last December , but this has been shown not to be true with Brazil having found it in sewage samples from previous to the Wuhan outbreak. So it has been making it's way around the world doing it's thing without anyone noticing, but then the Wuhan lab discovered it and acted like it started there spontaneously in the wet market and suddenly every country in the world has this test to use and the test seems to indicate that it is spreading, but that isn't the story at all. It has already spread and the test by its' nature doesn't differentiate between having had it before or having it now. Stable door closed, horse long gone.
None of this needs to be happening at all. None of it. Where are the massive excess deaths in Brazil from last November or indeed anywhere at all? Yeah. Things went on as normal despite the presence of this deadly virus killing all in its' path. How? Why didn't anyone notice? If it has been in Ireland since at least last December, why did all the deaths only kick off in April? Why isn't everyone sick? The thing was spreading as normal here before any lockdown, so why the sudden flood of deaths when we started testing here but not before? Why is the excess mortality for the year turning out to be normal? In fact the only thing that indicates that this is rapidly spreading is the increase in testing, and not the increases in sick people. There are a lot of people here on this forum. How many do we know sick with it? We have one forum member here who got a bad dose. Last year before the test existed he would have been told it was 'flu or ILI and go home and rest up. Now it's all this shite. I'm in a town with around 10,000 people in it and double that including the catchment area. No one has it. A few people tested positive but weren't sick. Lots of people going on as normal going out to have drinks, going to shops, having friends over for drinks and whatnot and have been quietly disobeying for months. Why aren't they all getting sick from the deadly virus?
I can't be the only one seeing through all this bollix can I?
Quote from: astfgyl on September 25, 2020, 04:01:42 PM
Just imagine for a minute if the lab in Wuhan never discovered this novel coronavirus and there was no RT-PCR test used to detect it in the general population. Where would we be now? Nowhere is the answer.
Should I clarify with you before responding whether this is hyperbole or BS? Do you think all the old folk in homes dropping dead towards the end of spring, even in Sweden, would have gone past uninvestigated? What percentage of people hospitalized and ICU'd do you think were "fakes" or whatever way it is that you explain away that thing that really happened? That would have been uninvestigated too?
Things evolve. The logic you're coming from is similar to, "humans are here now, therefore humans were always here" - y'know, creationist level stuff. With the virus, us being where we are now does not mean that that is always where we were. Things evolve.
It is neither hyperbole nor BS. It is the simple fact of it. Why all the deaths in April when it was spreading away without distancing or any of it long before that? Nothing to do with the way the deaths were reported? You have a real soft spot for the PCR test. So much so that from the whole text up there, that is the part you pick out. Your beloved test works just fine, it is just that the results are being acted on in the wrong way is all. And you could also point to the Italian experience as well as the higher than average April we had here, but there are already studies on what the fuck happened in Italy in the 18/19 season with the ridiculous ILI deaths there so even that is not unprecedented. Think back to last December, horse long out of stable, no one noticing.
https://medium.com/@FrankfurtZack/unprecedented-overall-mortality-in-sweden-and-other-european-countries-cd8fcdd6174a
This is of course far from a scientific paper, but the data it shows illustrates quite nicely what would have happened if this was not discovered last December. Fuck all. The whole world has shat the togs so bad that they will never wash the stains from them.
That is about as far from a scientific paper as you can get, in the same way that me describing a plate of food doesn't make me a chef.
QuoteIn January 2018, more people in Germany died than in March/April 2020.
How many things wrong with this statement can you spot?
Btw, it's total coincidence that the sentence I quoted mentioned PCR, because what I replied had nothing to do with testing at all.
I was talking about the graphs contained therein, not the opinion of the nobody who put it together. That sentence is indeed as dumb as fuck, but picking on that instead of what I actually said in the long imaginary scenario is only skirting around it. Besides, the data is publicly available for anyone to look at it for themselves. Describing exponential growth for viral infections doesn't make anyone a chef either, but it sure does allow for world-altering decision making, and here we are.
Watching this https://youtu.be/6P3SkTBfGzU at the minute. It is slightly more informed than the medium.com chef.
Might be interesting viewing for some of the terror merchants around here.
How do you expect us to know what you're taking away from the graphs unless you say so? Because sorry but,
Quotethe data it shows illustrates quite nicely what would have happened if this was not discovered last December
,
no it doesn't! I've no idea how you're getting to that conclusion unless you try to explain it.
Look, Germany, along with Norway, is the paradigm case for low, perhaps even insignificant excess mortality during the pandemic, so absolutely nothing is being revealed there that isn't part of the mainstream analysis of what's happening:
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 25, 2020, 05:30:37 PM
How do you expect us to know what you're taking away from the graphs unless you say so? Because sorry but,
Quotethe data it shows illustrates quite nicely what would have happened if this was not discovered last December
,
no it doesn't! I've no idea how you're getting to that conclusion unless you try to explain it.
Ok let's have a go. The overall excess mortality taken in the context of the last 30 years or so is not so significant as to warrant the ridiculous response that we are all experiencing. So if we didn't have a name for this, no one would notice beyond saying it was a bad flu season.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 25, 2020, 05:32:16 PM
Look, Germany, along with Norway, is the paradigm case for low, perhaps even insignificant excess mortality during the pandemic, so absolutely nothing is being revealed there that isn't part of the mainstream analysis of what's happening:
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
Don't forget China!
Here is a euromomo graph which supports what I was trying to say:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eiw3wMZXkAMb9pd?format=jpg&name=medium
Sparring aside, this video I'm looking at here is a great watch. Completely free of hyperbole (yeah I know) or BS and actual, qualified people answering decent questions. They are in fairness telling me what I already believe so I'm a bit biased, but these chaps seem to be of decent pedigree.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 25, 2020, 05:52:37 PM
Ok let's have a go. The overall excess mortality taken in the context of the last 30 years or so is not so significant as to warrant the ridiculous response that we are all experiencing. So if we didn't have a name for this, no one would notice beyond saying it was a bad flu season.
Except that it didn't happen during flu season, making it very "noticeable", name or no name.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 25, 2020, 05:52:37 PM
Here is a euromomo graph which supports what I was trying to say:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eiw3wMZXkAMb9pd?format=jpg&name=medium
"Note the very low death rate preceding COVID"
No, don't! Because excess mortality is based on a five year average for comparable periods of the year, and not on what happened just before, so this graph debunks nothing about the excess mortality discourse; to do that, it would have to show us what's been happening over five years.
Bottom line: we would have noticed. Of course we would have fucking noticed! Even in your own graph, look at that spike! How would that, outside of normal flu season, not have been noticed? What is this mad conclusion? I'm totally onboard for loosening restrictions across Europe now, for various reasons, but this "we wouldn't have changed our lives at all except for some pesky scientists in Wuhan isolating and naming a new virus" is paranoid lunacy.
Don't mind the note on the graph, that was just the picture I could get the quickest of it. It isn't even the low deaths before the spike that I am looking at. It shows excess mortality of 40,000 for a population of 360 million, does it not? I think that wouldn't be as noticeable as the hundreds of thousands of reported covid deaths, a large number of which are diagnosed by the test and nothing else, and also a large number which were never even tested. I wouldn't call that paranoid lunacy at all, and I honestly think without the hype fuck all would have changed. (Edit: the deaths that fit the bill by symptoms would have been classed as ILI and would be far lower than what we see reported) Have you seen the memo to the nursing homes regarding the declaration of Covid deaths in March and April? It explains a lot about what the craic is here.
I don't even think there is a shred of evidence for this originating in China but the world is running with the idea that it did.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 25, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
Don't mind the note on the graph, that was just the picture I could get the quickest of it.
I have to mind it, because it's a strong indication that your whole logic is coming from seriously flawed sources who are coming at statistics with a folk knowledge of comparing numbers.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 25, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
It shows excess mortality of 40,000 for a population of 360 million, does it not?
That is what the person who didn't fully know what they were looking at wrote on it. A graph like that, which is NOT raw numbers, is a response to a question. If you don't know what that question was, you can't know whether or not it answers it. What it shows is that there was a spike of 80,000 excess deaths across a short period of time when, compared to the same period averaged over the previous five years, there should be no such excess. So, regardless of cause, yes, it would have been very noticeable...in much the same way that heavier than usual death tolls are noticed even WITHIN season and are generally attributed to flu...many of whom die "with" flu, returning once again to that banal thing certain people think is such a revelation.
I recall way back in this thread that you said that the real measure of the damage done by Covid 19 would be in the overall excess mortality. Well there it is. (Actually I should have made more of the "~" in front of the quoted numbers). Including the drop off in all cause mortality since that spike, it will turn out to be a close to normal year.
And speaking of flawed sources, I don't base my own conclusions on a single source. I look to see what else there is after the initial thing puts me on to it. I smelled a rat with all of this very early on, and then thought maybe not for a good while but recently have come back around to the idea that it has been seriously overblown, and not from any one single source. Right this minute, I'm having my ideas backed up by Michael Levitt, Martin Kulldorff and Jay Bhattacharya.
The real metrics, which should be sick people and deaths all point to it simply running its' course.
You can't jump parallel between arguments. Your argument that COVID19 wouldn't have been noticed if we hadn't had a test for it is fatally flawed, based - among other things - on an excess mortality spike for the specific period of end March/beginning April. That's one argument.
Now you're saying that if, at the end of 2020, we compare total mortality for the whole year to the average annual mortality for the last five years (i.e. when we calculate 2020's sum excess mortality compared to the previous five years), that it will be very low, or that there won't be any excess at all. This is a different argument, which has nothing to do with whether or not we would have detected a spike at a different scale. There has been noticeable excess vibration in my apartment since my kid started walking, but I don't think it's registering for whoever's monitoring the Richter meter in the south west of France.
Personally, since it's only September, I won't be drawing any conclusions on that particular argument at all.
And now, finally, you say that you think the metrics point in the direction of the virus running its course, by which I guess you mean population immunity rising and vulnerable people taking care, although it's hard to tell what's the virus running its course and what's intervention because everywhere - yes, including Sweden - has some measures in place. But in any case, I do agree that there has been an evolution in how the virus is spreading, who is catching it, and so on, and that we should review policy on a local level in light of this. But, again, this too is independent of either of the above arguments.
Dipping into the current stats there, besides the record breaking case rates in France, on a more concrete level I see that the number of people in ICU here has tripled to over 1,000 in the last couple of weeks. I don't see any reason for Ireland to model its response based on highly populated places with enormous, sprawling urban agglomerates like France or Spain though. Just doesn't make sense, unless it's simply an extension of FF/FG always wanting to be in step with "Europe".
According to the General Register's Office which records all deaths in Ireland:
"During April 2020, there were 2,689 deaths registered in Ireland. During April 2019, there were 2,599 deaths registered. During April 2018, there were 2,940 deaths registered."
What do you make of that? I did a count of rip.ie deaths a while back which went against the figures I just quoted there so I'm contradicting my own research there but there are the numbers.
Regarding the ICU thing, I would have to know what the normal level of admissions in France is to have any opinion on that. I recently tried finding them for Ireland with no success. In fact, I'm finding those numbers of registered deaths for April 2018 and 2019 very elusive beyond a Gript result at the top of the google search. Must verify further.
The number of COVID positive people in ICU, I mean. It has tripled in the last two weeks. You don't need to know anything else to read that as an increase in the number of ICU admissions. I don't know what the total ICU occupancy is at the moment; that would be very difficult to find. But for a couple of months there, there were around 100 COVID positive cases, then it increased - what seemed slightly - to about 300 when cases began to increase, and now - having not looked at it for a week or so - it's gone up to over 1,000.
That is interesting. I was indeed taking it as the number of overall ICU admissions. Looking at the worldometers page for France here and the deaths don't seem to be increasing in any meaningful way though the cases are skyrocketing. It also says of the number of active cases that 0% are critical and 100% in mild condition, although I feel a bit skeptical about where they are getting that from.
Edit: Throwing this in here while we are talking about France. I think almost anyone will be able to find some common ground with this chap.
https://youtu.be/AsTv6iGPJHs
Fauci on the Late Late tonight. The propaganda machine in full swing. I wonder when they will invite Heneghan on?
In the meantime:
QuoteFL Gov says all restaurants and bars can fully open-- 100% capacity-- with no limitations from the state.
We are about to find out.
Funny, the video I watched for 2 hours this evening was him speaking to 3 experts. This is going to be really really interesting.
Bit of reading to disagree with here: https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/october-2020/democracy-muzzled/
I thought Jedward's performance on the Late Late last night was very reassuring and I am now ready to hold firm and stay in my house until a vaccine comes. Fauci also explained to me that if I do take the vaccine I can have life back to something like normal. Not normal but just a little more freedom as long as I take the vaccine. What a salesman. An awful pity the arse is after falling out of the thing he is trying to sell us protection from.
Reminds me of that Stalin story doing the rounds.. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/stalin-chicken-feathers/
Snopes says "Legend". Governments worldwide agree!
Next week on the Late Late, in the interest of balance it is to be Dr Marcus De Brun, Carl Heneghan, Sunetra Gupta, Anders Tegnell and Ron DeSantis. Should be fantastic. There will also be a pro-Trump rally to finish off instead of the usual musical number. I knew RTE had integrity.
I have to say astfgyl that watching your conversion from quite moderate to your current stance is very interesting. I'm neither saying good nor bad, it's kind of reassuring that people aren't all just swallowing the same oul shit that is handed to them everyday though. That said, I'm still quite on the fence myself in many ways. I get the feeling it's all bullshit but I err on the side of caution in general. That's not to I'm not sick to my back teeth with it all. A good read everyday in order to remind myself that I'm right to be sceptical about all this nonsense.
Cheers Pedro, I often think I'm the only one who can see we have all had the wool pulled over our eyes lately. The media bias on this is only matched by the dedication to BLM and trying to get rid of Trump. The whole thing feels orchestrated at times. I'm not even in the grand conspiracy camp about it all, I just feel things have gone too far and that governments are refusing to row back on it in the face of mounting evidence that they bought the Chinese toilet roll and the media and social media are turning the screw on dissent and that is not good for anyone.
I just fucking cracked a few weeks back once I really saw how the response is far worse than the virus having had nagging doubts since the beginning. I think what has been done to the old folks in terms of trying to inflict constant terror on them is a crime against humanity at this stage. Even they should be told that they have roughly a 95% chance of surviving at any age but no they are terrorized by the national news instead. It's not right.
Anyone seen any of the footage from the lockdown protests in London? Fully peaceful protest, cops beating the shit out of dissenters? It's especially disturbing when taken in the context of how the BLM protests were treated there given the very same risk of Covid was present. They fucked a doctor into the paddywagon there and all for speaking out about it. Same doctor was sitting beside Robert F. Kennedy at a news conference in Germany the other day. A Very Dangerous Man.
I bet those cops think they are doing that to save the old people. That is the saddest thing of all. How far is this going to go in the attempt to defeat a fucking virus!? With a survival rate on a par with or maybe even higher than the flu... Come on ta fuck and cop on, cops... and everyone else.
Black lives don't matter if they are they are being killed by other black people.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 26, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
Black lives don't matter if they are they are being killed by other black people.
Have a look at this. https://twitter.com/JoeTalksBack/status/1309873419010428929/photo/1 Then see what you can find of today's protest in Trafalgar Square. Notice much difference?
Read a good one on Twitter the other day: 'What if NFL helmets showed the names of all the women they beat up?' :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on September 26, 2020, 09:40:35 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 26, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
Black lives don't matter if they are they are being killed by other black people.
Have a look at this. https://twitter.com/JoeTalksBack/status/1309873419010428929/photo/1 Then see what you can find of today's protest in Trafalgar Square. Notice much difference?
BLM is a Marxist, anti-white radical movement who have millionaire spastic footballers kneeling down for them!
Here! I have a bridge to sell you!
I was going to say we were in the wrong thread but it feels like we aren't..
It is funny when you hear of millionaire black athletes speaking of oppression when at the same time they are happy to endorse sweat- shop products.
Lewis Hamilton is the one that makes me laugh. Never a word out of him about race or oppression until it became a cause celébre, now he never shuts up about it, and criticises any of the drivers who don't kneel for the anthems. He's still happy enough to drive for Mercedes and wear advertising for Hugo Boss, though. But sure that gaff in Monaco wouldn't be cheap now.
Here's a good one. Keep yer fucking masks on til the vaccine comes!
https://youtu.be/vrAvjU2LBkg
Quote from: Carnage on September 28, 2020, 02:33:31 PM
Lewis Hamilton is the one that makes me laugh. Never a word out of him about race or oppression until it became a cause celébre, now he never shuts up about it, and criticises any of the drivers who don't kneel for the anthems. He's still happy enough to drive for Mercedes and wear advertising for Hugo Boss, though. But sure that gaff in Monaco wouldn't be cheap now.
He's so transparently insincere it's comical.
I can't stand BBC 'news', the website is embarrassing in how it depicts every single political article in that fawning tone to the work crowd, but it had always been solid for sport until recently. Now everything Hamilton says is applauded, any kind of 'minority' story or transgender athlete are ramped right up to the headlines as long as the premier league isn't on that day. Head wrecking.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 29, 2020, 07:26:17 PM
Quote from: Carnage on September 28, 2020, 02:33:31 PM
Lewis Hamilton is the one that makes me laugh. Never a word out of him about race or oppression until it became a cause celébre, now he never shuts up about it, and criticises any of the drivers who don't kneel for the anthems. He's still happy enough to drive for Mercedes and wear advertising for Hugo Boss, though. But sure that gaff in Monaco wouldn't be cheap now.
He's so transparently insincere it's comical.
I can't stand BBC 'news', the website is embarrassing in how it depicts every single political article in that fawning tone to the work crowd, but it had always been solid for sport until recently. Now everything Hamilton says is applauded, any kind of 'minority' story or transgender athlete are ramped right up to the headlines as long as the premier league isn't on that day. Head wrecking.
Don't start me on the women's 'football'.... :-X
https://youtu.be/OzPYRFSUlCQ
Hadn't seen that before. Gas.
So we're past a million (known) deaths globally, Ireland has seen the biggest surge of cases since April, a high percentage of them are in the 15 to 24 age group (which is indicative of educational institutions reopening), but you know, "muh freedoms" and it's clearly all a conspiracy :abbath:
'Woooah steady girls'🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 08:17:14 PM
So we're past a million (known) deaths globally, Ireland has seen the biggest surge of cases since April, a high percentage of them are in the 15 to 24 age group (which is indicative of educational institutions reopening), but you know, "muh freedoms" and it's clearly all a conspiracy :abbath:
Yeah. Trying to make the folks who think freedom is important seem like thick cunts is the way to go. Sure you just use your freedom to stay hiding in your house and let the rest of those who want theirs have it, instead of advocating for them to be restricted because you are afraid.
Edit: "Cases". Let's see how many of those 15 to 24 year olds add to the death tally..
Edit 2: https://www.worldhunger.org/world-child-hunger-facts/
There is something else that goes over the million deaths. Perspective. While the rest of the world gets fatter in front of their playstations. Ohhhhh the injustice, lets ban modern society altogether!
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 08:17:14 PM
So we're past a million (known) deaths globally, Ireland has seen the biggest surge of cases since April, a high percentage of them are in the 15 to 24 age group (which is indicative of educational institutions reopening), but you know, "muh freedoms" and it's clearly all a conspiracy :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on September 29, 2020, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 08:17:14 PM
So we're past a million (known) deaths globally, Ireland has seen the biggest surge of cases since April, a high percentage of them are in the 15 to 24 age group (which is indicative of educational institutions reopening), but you know, "muh freedoms" and it's clearly all a conspiracy :abbath:
Yeah. Trying to make the folks who think freedom is important seem like thick cunts is the way to go. Sure you just use your freedom to stay hiding in your house and let the rest of those who want theirs have it, instead of advocating for them to be restricted because you are afraid.
Edit: "Cases". Let's see how many of those 15 to 24 year olds add to the death tally..
Edit 2: https://www.worldhunger.org/world-child-hunger-facts/
There is something else that goes over the million deaths. Perspective. While the rest of the world gets fatter in front of their playstations. Ohhhhh the injustice, lets ban modern society altogether!
Don't try to paint yourself as some crusader for freedom just because you don't understand basic science.
Edit: Must quote you for context:
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 09:00:24 PM
Don't try to paint yourself as some crusader for freedom just because you don't understand basic science.
You don't understand the basic want for freedom from rule by decree so back in your box lad and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure from the sound of things you don't go out much anyway. Basic science says there is fuck all risk to anyone without underlying conditions. Again, if you are afraid, imprison yourself instead of wishing for me to be locked up. Banging on about selfishness is rich from someone who for some reason wants everyone to suffer because they are scared.
And no I'm not a crusader for freedom for anyone else, I just want mine thanks. You can do whatever the fuck you like. So wear a mask if you want, put yourself out of work, pay the ridiculous taxes to come, watch the media in terror, hide in your gaff, limit your social contacts if you have any and stay away from people who you are afraid you might kill by passing by, watch all those old frail folks you want to save suffer, watch everyone else who has anything other than covid lose access to healthcare and most importantly hold firm for the vaccine which Tubridy has promised us is coming, against all logic and previous vaccine development standards.
Or in short, you hide instead of wanting me to.
Here is a fucking beauty I pulled out of the arse of The Journal regarding the reason for locking down Donegal...
Quote"Because we had cases cropping up all over the county – particularly in the mid-north and north-east parts near Stranorlar and Lifford – that did show there was something going on."
He said between the central contact tracing system and local teams working on complex cases, there was a realisation that there was "community spread and it was due to people, for whatever reason, not sticking to the guidance".
It appeared people were having events, – christenings and Communions for example – and I have no problem with that – but some had larger numbers attending, particularly in their homes with catering in their houses afterwards and had maybe a couple more people in their homes than they should have had.
Or "if they were frightened of it or took it seriously they would have strictly adhered to the bullshit rules out of fear, but it isn't working so we will have to frighten them harder or lock them down harder in the future. Let this be a warning to everyone else who doesn't give a fuck"
The Journal goes on to say..
QuoteIn the case of Stranorlar, it has 14-day incidence rate of 336 per 100,000 population – the highest in the country.
(Let's watch those Donegal deaths rack up along with the cases!)
That is 100,000/336 = 0.34% of the population there catching something with a case fatality ratio of max 3% in worst circumstances. (https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30694-9/fulltext)
So say that 3% of 0.34% = 0.00102. This then suggests that for every 100,000 of those communion party deviants who don't give a fuck, that 0.00102 of them are likely (at worst) to give up the ghost. Population of Donegal is 160,000. I guess now we can multiply Donegal by 1.6 so that is 102 x 1.6 deaths which is 163 deaths, assuming the entire population of Donegal is at the communion party and exposed to the deadly virus. Certainly we should hide in our houses and live in terror while the world falls to a ruin entirely of or own making. (Yes our own making, not the magic virus. Then again, I don't understand basic science) Also lets not forget the extra 0.2 of a person that I failed to account for in my calculations. I fucked up bad.
Now consider that is the highest incidence in the country, the sprawling metropolis of Stranorlar, Co Donegal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballybofey_and_Stranorlar#:~:text=Ballybofey%20and%20Stranorlar%20is%20a,4%2C852%20for%20the%202016%20census. and really think about it all. Hmmmm...
Good old maths and statistics and their propensity for malleability! Sure they could almost be used to make us believe anything!!!
WHERE ARE ALL OF THE SICK PEOPLE?
Seven months in on this crock of shit and I know one person who has caught Covid.
He reckons he got it on a building site in Dublin. He's currently self isolating and last week he had a bit of a sore throat and lost his sense of smell for about 3 days. He's 27 years old....
Back to work next week and probably on the same site. We're DOOOOOOOOOMED...!!!
The instinct of survival is strong....
Not strong enough to finish writing a few books though
He did write enough books in fairness and his headwear choices are sublime.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 29, 2020, 09:24:54 PM
Edit: Must quote you for context:
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 09:00:24 PM
Don't try to paint yourself as some crusader for freedom just because you don't understand basic science.
You don't understand the basic want for freedom from rule by decree so back in your box lad and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure from the sound of things you don't go out much anyway. Basic science says there is fuck all risk to anyone without underlying conditions. Again, if you are afraid, imprison yourself instead of wishing for me to be locked up. Banging on about selfishness is rich from someone who for some reason wants everyone to suffer because they are scared.
And no I'm not a crusader for freedom for anyone else, I just want mine thanks. You can do whatever the fuck you like. So wear a mask if you want, put yourself out of work, pay the ridiculous taxes to come, watch the media in terror, hide in your gaff, limit your social contacts if you have any and stay away from people who you are afraid you might kill by passing by, watch all those old frail folks you want to save suffer, watch everyone else who has anything other than covid lose access to healthcare and most importantly hold firm for the vaccine which Tubridy has promised us is coming, against all logic and previous vaccine development standards.
Or in short, you hide instead of wanting me to.
Man, I'd fucking love to drop you into a room full of smallpox patients and see how far your freedom fighting gets you.
You'd have to back in time for that, and comparing it to Wuhan corona is frankly ludicrous.
Ducky, you need to go on a diet. That gimp suit is getting too small on you and it's squeezing all the oxygen out of your blood. :laugh:
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 30, 2020, 01:19:34 PM
You'd have to back in time for that, and comparing it to Wuhan corona is frankly ludicrous.
How so? Aaasyfflfjfhdkdldkjddj is having a piss and moan about vaccines.
Yeah but how would you feel if it was YOUR mam's funeral, eh, freedom boy?
Quote from: Airneanach on September 30, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
Yeah but how would you feel if it was YOUR mam's funeral, eh, freedom boy?
She was going to die a few months later anyway, so no big deal.
Quote from: Ducky on September 30, 2020, 01:17:05 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on September 29, 2020, 09:24:54 PM
Edit: Must quote you for context:
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 09:00:24 PM
Don't try to paint yourself as some crusader for freedom just because you don't understand basic science.
You don't understand the basic want for freedom from rule by decree so back in your box lad and let the rest of us get on with it. Sure from the sound of things you don't go out much anyway. Basic science says there is fuck all risk to anyone without underlying conditions. Again, if you are afraid, imprison yourself instead of wishing for me to be locked up. Banging on about selfishness is rich from someone who for some reason wants everyone to suffer because they are scared.
And no I'm not a crusader for freedom for anyone else, I just want mine thanks. You can do whatever the fuck you like. So wear a mask if you want, put yourself out of work, pay the ridiculous taxes to come, watch the media in terror, hide in your gaff, limit your social contacts if you have any and stay away from people who you are afraid you might kill by passing by, watch all those old frail folks you want to save suffer, watch everyone else who has anything other than covid lose access to healthcare and most importantly hold firm for the vaccine which Tubridy has promised us is coming, against all logic and previous vaccine development standards.
Or in short, you hide instead of wanting me to.
Man, I'd fucking love to drop you into a room full of smallpox patients and see how far your freedom fighting gets you.
I'd love to drop you into a bottomless fucking pit. For your own good like, you would be safe in there.
Are you seriously comparing this virus to smallpox? That would be fucking laughable if it wasn't so sad.
Quote from: Ducky on September 30, 2020, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 30, 2020, 01:19:34 PM
You'd have to back in time for that, and comparing it to Wuhan corona is frankly ludicrous.
How so? Aaasyfflfjfhdkdldkjddj is having a piss and moan about vaccines.
This is wilfully misunderstanding him unfortunately, he said some pages back he's pro vaccine. I think you might be missing the point here. I think you're dehumanising him and belittling his argument with the repetition of "muh freedoms" as it casts him in with a crowd he has repeatedly set himself away from and given strong opinions against, and I know you're only doing so to further your own argument but it's bad to watch really considering in general your points are very good and I'd be on board with the majority of what you're saying about it, you're invalidating your own opinion before the argument goading him with things like this and false equivalences like smallpox. Basically - relax and consider the argument being offered here is more about fear and response than the actual virus, there's no questioning that it's real or a vaccine would work but more about how the world wide response is being exercised by various parties and the overwhelming fear and anxiety of the whole thing, wading through an absolutely kafkaesque sea of noise, info, and control. Broader consideration rather than outright dismissal is key to finding our best routes to deal with this, in every regard (physical/mental/economic/whatever).
And since i've been otherwise silent but reading for the whole thread, i'll put out that I firmly believe wearing masks is key to a defeat of this and that a vaccine is a suitable method for solving it in the future, if it works, but all signs so far point to it not being available in a working form for 2-3 years (talking to people in the industry as well as info online etc) so other situations need to be considered, and the overall effects globally need to be weighed up. Mass testing would help. The level of fear being generated on all fronts is absolutely despicable and is mostly an attempt to sell papers/views/clicks. We all know that being decent to each other, giving space, staying away from the infirm, wearing masks and keeping the auld hands clean does something to slow it all down, and it is completely possible to do all of these things and still be concerned about how we are being fed the message.
The real issue here, and I'm sure it was mentioned earlier, is how this has been tied to the current Americanised polarised & partisan political style. For Masks = Left, Against = Right. That is what we are told and since we all love our totems we will do what suits and generally follow the lines of agreement with them, which is completely and totally horrendous for everything. So when someone usually left leaning on the political spectrum questions anything about the covid response, they are painted instead with the colours of the 'other side' and ridiculed. I see this regularly. It ties in nicely with the online myth that anyone right leaning is thick (again an american perpetuation) and lends to a dismissal and belittling of their overall views and beliefs, in turn escalating the current resurgence of fascism and far-right behaviour through 'othering' everyone that doesn't fit in your niche. This is probably something for the other thread and is fairly stream of consciousness so probably a few issues but there ye have it. And since everything requires a coloured flag to be stuck down to your argument lest it be misread and/or dismissed, I am heavily left leaning on that lovely political axis.
Right back into just watching ye at each other anyway, carry on.
Quote from: ochoill on September 30, 2020, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: Ducky on September 30, 2020, 01:37:28 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 30, 2020, 01:19:34 PM
You'd have to back in time for that, and comparing it to Wuhan corona is frankly ludicrous.
How so? Aaasyfflfjfhdkdldkjddj is having a piss and moan about vaccines.
This is wilfully misunderstanding him unfortunately, he said some pages back he's pro vaccine. I think you might be missing the point here. I think you're dehumanising him and belittling his argument with the repetition of "muh freedoms" as it casts him in with a crowd he has repeatedly set himself away from and given strong opinions against, and I know you're only doing so to further your own argument but it's bad to watch really considering in general your points are very good and I'd be on board with the majority of what you're saying about it, you're invalidating your own opinion before the argument goading him with things like this and false equivalences like smallpox. Basically - relax and consider the argument being offered here is more about fear and response than the actual virus, there's no questioning that it's real or a vaccine would work but more about how the world wide response is being exercised by various parties and the overwhelming fear and anxiety of the whole thing, wading through an absolutely kafkaesque sea of noise, info, and control. Broader consideration rather than outright dismissal is key to finding our best routes to deal with this, in every regard (physical/mental/economic/whatever).
And since i've been otherwise silent but reading for the whole thread, i'll put out that I firmly believe wearing masks is key to a defeat of this and that a vaccine is a suitable method for solving it in the future, if it works, but all signs so far point to it not being available in a working form for 2-3 years (talking to people in the industry as well as info online etc) so other situations need to be considered, and the overall effects globally need to be weighed up. Mass testing would help. The level of fear being generated on all fronts is absolutely despicable and is mostly an attempt to sell papers/views/clicks. We all know that being decent to each other, giving space, staying away from the infirm, wearing masks and keeping the auld hands clean does something to slow it all down, and it is completely possible to do all of these things and still be concerned about how we are being fed the message.
The real issue here, and I'm sure it was mentioned earlier, is how this has been tied to the current Americanised polarised & partisan political style. For Masks = Left, Against = Right. That is what we are told and since we all love our totems we will do what suits and generally follow the lines of agreement with them, which is completely and totally horrendous for everything. So when someone usually left leaning on the political spectrum questions anything about the covid response, they are painted instead with the colours of the 'other side' and ridiculed. I see this regularly. It ties in nicely with the online myth that anyone right leaning is thick (again an american perpetuation) and lends to a dismissal and belittling of their overall views and beliefs, in turn escalating the current resurgence of fascism and far-right behaviour through 'othering' everyone that doesn't fit in your niche. This is probably something for the other thread and is fairly stream of consciousness so probably a few issues but there ye have it. And since everything requires a coloured flag to be stuck down to your argument lest it be misread and/or dismissed, I am heavily left leaning on that lovely political axis.
Right back into just watching ye at each other anyway, carry on.
No u
D'you know what.... I am as guilty as anyone of falling into that trap as well, and I think Ducky is sound on every other thread, and always spells my username right on them as well.
I think though that as good as your points there are, you are grossly underestimating the pandemic-busting potential of the 9 euro dinner.
Quote from: Cailleach on September 30, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Quote from: Airneanach on September 30, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
Yeah but how would you feel if it was YOUR mam's funeral, eh, freedom boy?
She was going to die a few months later anyway, so no big deal.
Not necessarily. Glaxo have an old age vaccine coming so if she holds firm, she will be fine. just don't let her out.
How come it's always the Mam anyway? The ould lads don't get a look in. They must be expendable.
'Do you want to kill your Ma' - I got that the other day from a paranoid goon in work.
'No,my mother spends ever 2nd day in Mahon Point (biggest shopping centre in Cork),meeting her friends for coffee,eating out etc etc,shes well capable of killing herself' - my response.
Yeah auld fellas not getting a look in!
Quote from: Paul keohane on September 30, 2020, 04:45:51 PM
Yeah auld fellas not getting a look in!
They're probably just happy to be left out of it...
Still, at least they have their man flu....
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/30/neanderthal-genes-increase-risk-of-serious-covid-19-study-claims
Reckon this is just someone deep trolling Varg :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 30, 2020, 07:13:02 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/30/neanderthal-genes-increase-risk-of-serious-covid-19-study-claims
Reckon this is just someone deep trolling Varg :abbath:
Awww fuck. Looks like I will have to go into hiding after all... :(
I have a question for anyone who follows this stuff closely.
What is the source of your info on it all? I know there are many and nobody sane will follow any singe line of inquiry, but in general, where? Is it RTE and the papers, is it official data from around the world, or is it something else like some anti Bill Gates social media thing? An honest question now, no baiting.
You.
"Since the 1 August to midnight on 28 September there has been 9,632 cases notified, 269 of those were admitted to hospital... of those – 153 – almost 60% were under 65 and 56, or one in five were under 40, so young people ar unfortunately being hospitalised with this disease.
"There were 30 admitted to ICU, of those 22 or three quarters were under 65 and four were under 40, so again that's severe disease in younger people. "
https://www.thejournal.ie/the-window-for-it-not-to-be-a-national-issue-is-closing-worry-as-covid-19-incidence-rate-rises-nationwide-5219317-Sep2020/
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 30, 2020, 09:15:21 PM
"Since the 1 August to midnight on 28 September there has been 9,632 cases notified, 269 of those were admitted to hospital... of those – 153 – almost 60% were under 65 and 56, or one in five were under 40, so young people ar unfortunately being hospitalised with this disease.
"There were 30 admitted to ICU, of those 22 or three quarters were under 65 and four were under 40, so again that's severe disease in younger people. "
https://www.thejournal.ie/the-window-for-it-not-to-be-a-national-issue-is-closing-worry-as-covid-19-incidence-rate-rises-nationwide-5219317-Sep2020/
That is a pretty interesting statistic, but I feel it's right up there with the maths exercise I did a couple of posts back. Pointless. Are we unique in the international community when the opposite seems to be the case for the rest of the world? Who knows, but it's a case of back to the from or with thing for me and until someone comes up with a test that can't be misinterpreted in the same fashion as the current standard, the jury is out.
The media bias toward the narrative is matched only by my own in the opposite direction. Someone says kids are safe, next Kawasaki disease.... someone says it's not the airborne route, next it's the choir thing... someone says Sweden are making us all look like cunts, next some story saying Anders Tegnell is a corrupt murderer.... and on and on.
I think it's a simple case of doubling down because to do otherwise would lead to crazy things for the government and NPHET to answer for. So hey Galway students, the next few deaths are on you!
Edit: Here is another perspective for analytical (yeah I did do that on purpose!) purposes... https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40057658.html The propaganda machine rolls on
Quote from: astfgyl on September 30, 2020, 04:13:06 PM
Quote from: Cailleach on September 30, 2020, 02:26:48 PM
Quote from: Airneanach on September 30, 2020, 01:58:36 PM
Yeah but how would you feel if it was YOUR mam's funeral, eh, freedom boy?
She was going to die a few months later anyway, so no big deal.
Not necessarily. Glaxo have an old age vaccine coming so if she holds firm, she will be fine. just don't let her out.
From talking to two people who work in the industry, a vaccine by next year may not be the silver bullet you hope for, and even it is, it will take time to administer.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 30, 2020, 07:13:02 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/30/neanderthal-genes-increase-risk-of-serious-covid-19-study-claims
Reckon this is just someone deep trolling Varg :abbath:
There was an article on RTE yesterday talking about the same thing. A reason why Kerry people weren't getting it because they come from an older European race, which is interesting because the neanderthal strain(don't quote me on my wording) seems to be quite prevalent in Spain from what I've heard over the years. Who fukin knows. Sick of it.
Actually regarding the whole "what if it was your ma?" thing, I think a lot of folks who have lost their parents and grandparents to influenza on top of old age and underlying conditions must feel pretty aggrieved that we didn't shut down the world to save them and must be thinking about how inhuman we were to just accept it as one of those things that happen all the time with fuck all fanfare.... Yeah that's right, for some reason they weren't worth the hassle of locking it all down. Well at least they got the proper full funeral treatment so hopefully that alleviates the pain of the realisation.
Go on, someone take up that argument for the craic. Why did we go on as normal in the face of a preventable illness that claims so many lives every year? Here is a bit of sauce for my thinking on this one https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm (And oh! Fuck! look at those age groupings! Oh the humanity!)
Oh wait we didn't go on as normal, we have a vaccine for it. So even with the magic sponge, we have had to settle on an acceptable level of deaths? That can't be right, surely?
Oh here I already edited this into a previous response but fuck does it deserve a bump... https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40057658.html
Because the seasonal flu is a known entity, is exponentially less fatal than COVID, there's vaccines for it, no? You have to be trolling with this bullshit now.
Quote from: Ducky on September 30, 2020, 10:55:39 PM
Because the seasonal flu is a known entity, is exponentially less fatal than COVID, there's vaccines for it, no? You have to be trolling with this bullshit now.
So are you saying that a certain number of deaths is acceptable? But what about those poor old folks that wouldn't have died if we locked the fuck down and did it proper hard style?
Come on Ducky, you have to be trolling with this bullshit now.
Did you read the Examiner article there by any chance? Or did you watch any of the Prime Time debate last night? No? Didn't think so... So what exactly
is your argument again?
exponentially
/ˌɛkspəˈnɛnʃ(ə)li/
adverb
1.
(with reference to an increase) more and more rapidly.
Well that's the wind knocked right out of that sail then... Exponentially me hole.
'Chief Medical Officer Ronan Glynn has confirmed the median age of the 1,803 people who have died from Covid-19 is "the late 80s".
He also confirmed that of those 90% of those who died had underlying conditions at the time of their deaths'.
The scientist behind Stutnik V is comparing the virus to people dying in a war. Agenda much....
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/9/29/scientist-behind-sputnik-v-vaccine-defends-russian-strategy
Worst flu season of the last 10 years in the US took out an estimated 61,000 people, with the average being about 35,000 annually.
200,000 and counting from COVID in the last 6-7 months.
Whatever about abusing the word "exponentially", taking the figures at face value, there's a stark difference there which wasn't seen to the same extent in Europe, where measures were globally more stringent than in the US, notwithstanding regional variations.
Why is the flu being brought up repeatedly in discussions about this? This is not the flu, in so many ways.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on October 01, 2020, 09:23:04 AM
Why is the flu being brought up repeatedly in discussions about this? This is not the flu, in so many ways.
I'd imagine it's because it
is like the flu, in so many ways:
- spreads by coughing/sneezing
- can survive on hard surfaces for 24 hours
- covid is being reported to have "
flu-like symptoms"
- kills thousands of people every year
While it obviously isn't killing as many people as covid:
Quote from: https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/flu-vaccination/about-the-flu/The flu is responsible for 200-500 deaths each year in Ireland. In a severe season it maycause up to 1,000 deaths.
... surely it's easy to see why it's being brought up in discussion?
My point about 'flu is that while it kills less than covid, the lockdown merchants are running with the idea that every life is precious and "what if it was your ma" and we should all do our bit to save everyone. Why then were they prepared to simply get the fuck on with it and not saying stupid shit like "it's manslaughter" and weren't going around afraid of their shit all the time? That is why I used that comparison. So next year if someone dies of 'flu it must either be answered by lockdown, or accepting that something will finish off a certain amount of people every year. So if a vaccine comes in the next few years, all those at risk can take it and it will save a certain amount of them, just like the 'flu vaccine does. In the meantime though we will have to get on with things or continue to make a fuck of everything else healthcare related and accept that the collateral damage from that is the acceptable level of harm or death. There must be a choice.
It's also worth keeping in mind that there is a vaccine every year for 'flu with wildly varying results but still 60,000 roughly accepted to die from it.
It's on the CDC website that of the 200,000 deaths reported in the US with positive covid test, over 100,000 of them also had influenza. So those figures are so badly skewed it is difficult to make much of them and the question of which respiratory virus actually killed them will never be clearly answered. It does put some perspective on the US faring so much worse than other developed nations though.
Edit: Instead of a new reply, here is something I've been reading. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-020-00808-x I have to admit it's a lot to take in and plenty of things that mean little or nothing to me along the way but what it indicates seems to be a very high level of immunity to covid in the general population. Something in the region of 80% from what I gather. Seems like a proper study too and appears devoid of agenda.
Has anyone seen Varadkar's latest comments on cases and how they are interpreted? Sounds like he is having a change of heart.
From RTE:
QuoteIn an interview published today on The Currency website, the Enterprise Minister said: "What I see other countries doing - Belgium is the most recent example - is that they are no longer using case numbers to make their decisions on restrictions and policy.
"They are looking at hospitalisations, ICU capacity and deaths. It is a job for us as politicians to say to the public health people that maybe we should be focusing on that."
Interesting. I said it already more than once in this thread that while I am no supporter of Varadkar, he is one smooth fucking operator.
In other news, Tony Holohan is coming back as CMO next Monday, so expect the same hardline approach as always from his end.
South Park's pandemic special just came out. Brilliant stuff.
Donald and Melania have tested positive. Looks like all our threads really are coming together now!
Going for the sympathy vote, I reckon. I doubt every word that comes from that camp.
But he can't possibly have got it - it's a hoax, remember? :P
Quote from: Nail_Bombed on October 02, 2020, 10:38:17 AM
But he can't possibly have got it - it's a hoax, remember? :P
One day it'll just disappear. It is what it is.
Oh great, he'll recover, tell everyone how un-American it is, call everyone that died from it a pussy.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 01, 2020, 04:11:16 PM
Has anyone seen Varadkar's latest comments on cases and how they are interpreted? Sounds like he is having a change of heart.
From RTE:
Quote
Interesting. I said it already more than once in this thread that while I am no supporter of Varadkar, he is one smooth fucking operator.
Yes, he is one slick operator. He has fostered the impression that things were better under his watch. Yet it was under his watch that we had the second highest Nursing Homes death rate in Europe from Covid 19. Also it's as if Leo is above any responsibility for any of the current government mishaps.
That is exactly it. I have heard so many people lately saying the likes of "it wasn't this bad with Varadkar and Harris and Tony Holohan". Well it was, but the bonus is that Leo gets to throw the hapless Michael Martin under the bus and he will come out of it shining. It's serious politics he played there.
I have a great bit of reading around testing here https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1491/5912603 which sheds a lot of light on the absolute fuck that has been made of this whole thing worldwide. Anyone interested will have to click through to the pdf but if this doesn't get people to wake up to the whole farce, or at least make them curious enough to start asking serious questions around what they have been led to believe, nothing will. So Trump and his bird testing positive is basically meaningless unless they are actually sick. Not ruling out that they might get sick either, but the whole idea of isolating those who test positive and are not sick has been a sham and yet it continues unabated. Countries who want to double down are massively increasing testing against all logic to keep the cases level up when the reality is that it means fuck all. Why for example are NPHET constantly saying the HSE needs to increase testing when the information is in the public domain about why it is not fit for purpose in the way it is being used to test asymptomatic individuals? Doubling down of course. And here we all were thinking they just wanted to help.
I really wonder if the same testing policy was applied to flu where would we be at? The whole concept of the virulence of this is based on the fact that people test positive, yet people are only tested for flu when they are sick. It's gone beyond ridiculous. I haven't a clue how many positive tests have been announced for a couple of weeks now, but I meet so many people who are simply dying to tell me it's crazy. Some waste of time and resources the whole thing.
The WHO and their "test, test, test" mantra have gotten us all into a right mess here. They have to have known what type of test would be used and how the results would be applied.
Trump and his bird testing positive means that they've spread it to other people. Didn't he have a fundraiser the other day? No PPE, because of his freedoms of course.
And for the millionth time, drop the fixation with the cold. It's not a fucking cold (or flu), it's much more contagious, dangerous and we don't have the means to contain it. It's not fucking rocket science.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 03:52:11 PM
That is exactly it. I have heard so many people lately saying the likes of "it wasn't this bad with Varadkar and Harris and Tony Holohan". Well it was, but the bonus is that Leo gets to throw the hapless Michael Martin under the bus and he will come out of it shining. It's serious politics he played there.
I remember when Martin was announced as Taoiseach. What an own goal. Let Varadker continue and when the inevitable backlash comes you seem far better than wants there.
Now I will say this. With Varadker and Harris the messaging was more clear and concise. FF are making a complete hames of it.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 03:54:20 PM
I really wonder if the same testing policy was applied to flu where would we be at? The whole concept of the virulence of this is based on the fact that people test positive, yet people are only tested for flu when they are sick. It's gone beyond ridiculous. I haven't a clue how many positive tests have been announced for a couple of weeks now, but I meet so many people who are simply dying to tell me it's crazy. Some waste of time and resources the whole thing.
The WHO and their "test, test, test" mantra have gotten us all into a right mess here. They have to have known what type of test would be used and how the results would be applied.
The flu has a vaccine. Covid doesn't. So there should be fuckloads of testing. If theres fuckloads of testing then someone who has it can inform their friends who could isolate and not pass it to other people hence saving lives. In fact every cunt should be tested.
Quote from: Ollkiller on October 02, 2020, 04:36:03 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 03:54:20 PM
I really wonder if the same testing policy was applied to flu where would we be at? The whole concept of the virulence of this is based on the fact that people test positive, yet people are only tested for flu when they are sick. It's gone beyond ridiculous. I haven't a clue how many positive tests have been announced for a couple of weeks now, but I meet so many people who are simply dying to tell me it's crazy. Some waste of time and resources the whole thing.
The WHO and their "test, test, test" mantra have gotten us all into a right mess here. They have to have known what type of test would be used and how the results would be applied.
The flu has a vaccine. Covid doesn't. So there should be fuckloads of testing. If theres fuckloads of testing then someone who has it can inform their friends who could isolate and not pass it to other people hence saving lives. In fact every cunt should be tested.
No, they shouldn't. They really really shouldn't.
I take it you haven't really looked into it at all if that is how you feel about it. If the same level of test, trace and isolate was taken for flu then we would save some lives too, but balanced against the cost and consequences it has not been deemed worth it. The flu has a vaccine. It doesn't really work very well. It didn't work at all in 2017 and in a real twist, works the least on those who would need it the most.
I felt as you do about it, that the solution to this would be to just test everyone until one day the realisation hit me. I had no understanding of what a positive test actually meant. If you like I can send you towards some stuff that I was reading and listening to that helped change my mind about it all. Or you can read the PDF I linked up there and then find out how many cycles are used in each country and what the difference there actually means. You are being led down the garden path with all of this, but it isn't your fault as no-one can be expected to give the time it takes to really look into it all, and so everyone gets to take the official word on it at face value. I just happen to have an addictive personality and unlimited patience when I feel I'm chasing something.
The problem with all of this has been in the testing all along. Classic definition of a case would involve symptoms and a positive test of some sort. Definition of a case in this instance has become simply a positive test result, which in itself is essentially meaningless. The tests are a useful research and analysis tool and frighteningly accurate for those purposes, but altogether unsuitable as a diagnostic tool. Without being smart arsed here, have you looked into it at all?
Trump has mild symptoms, apparently. So far anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 02, 2020, 04:58:02 PM
Trump has mild symptoms, apparently. So far anyway.
Hes into day 2 or 3 apparently. Day 7 or 8 are the worst so see how he goes.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 04:55:47 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on October 02, 2020, 04:36:03 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 03:54:20 PM
I really wonder if the same testing policy was applied to flu where would we be at? The whole concept of the virulence of this is based on the fact that people test positive, yet people are only tested for flu when they are sick. It's gone beyond ridiculous. I haven't a clue how many positive tests have been announced for a couple of weeks now, but I meet so many people who are simply dying to tell me it's crazy. Some waste of time and resources the whole thing.
The WHO and their "test, test, test" mantra have gotten us all into a right mess here. They have to have known what type of test would be used and how the results would be applied.
The flu has a vaccine. Covid doesn't. So there should be fuckloads of testing. If theres fuckloads of testing then someone who has it can inform their friends who could isolate and not pass it to other people hence saving lives. In fact every cunt should be tested.
No, they shouldn't. They really really shouldn't.
I take it you haven't really looked into it at all if that is how you feel about it. If the same level of test, trace and isolate was taken for flu then we would save some lives too, but balanced against the cost and consequences it has not been deemed worth it. The flu has a vaccine. It doesn't really work very well. It didn't work at all in 2017 and in a real twist, works the least on those who would need it the most.
I felt as you do about it, that the solution to this would be to just test everyone until one day the realisation hit me. I had no understanding of what a positive test actually meant. If you like I can send you towards some stuff that I was reading and listening to that helped change my mind about it all. Or you can read the PDF I linked up there and then find out how many cycles are used in each country and what the difference there actually means. You are being led down the garden path with all of this, but it isn't your fault as no-one can be expected to give the time it takes to really look into it all, and so everyone gets to take the official word on it at face value. I just happen to have an addictive personality and unlimited patience when I feel I'm chasing something.
The problem with all of this has been in the testing all along. Classic definition of a case would involve symptoms and a positive test of some sort. Definition of a case in this instance has become simply a positive test result, which in itself is essentially meaningless. The tests are a useful research and analysis tool and frighteningly accurate for those purposes, but altogether unsuitable as a diagnostic tool. Without being smart arsed here, have you looked into it at all?
Sure I'll have a look at that PDF and give my view then.
Trump is in his mid seventies, I wouldn't take anything for granted. He looks robust but who knows?
Quote from: Ollkiller on October 02, 2020, 05:02:16 PM
Sure I'll have a look at that PDF and give my view then.
I do think we as a society should take steps to prevent unnecessary deaths among the elderly and vulnerable and also that there are other, more useful metrics than the number of cases which could be used to guide response and any public health measures. The whole flu thing I go on about is a comparison in terms of response. I supported lockdown before it even happened by the way because like everybody else including our government and NPHET, I didn't have the access to the level of data that is out there right now. So what happened is nobody's fault, not even the nursing home deaths. The major difference between myself and the government and NPHET is that I can admit that in the face of the information available now, I got it wrong in the first place. The death count for this is way out of whack but no one can even know for sure now by how much because of how it has been measured. It's a situation that has gotten badly out of hand.
So fair play for at least looking at it, whatever conclusion you come to.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18382647/
Another bit here, draw your own conclusions.
Here is a paper from 2006 "Preparation of a Chimeric Armored RNA as a Versatile Calibrator for Multiple Virus Assays" which specifically mentions "Calibration of the real-time RT-PCR assay for HCV, HIV-1, SARS-CoV1, and SARS-CoV2." :-\
What gives? https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/52/7/1446/5627058
Then this.. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/technical-guidance/naming-the-coronavirus-disease-(covid-2019)-and-the-virus-that-causes-it
What am I missing? It must be glaring
Who's winning in the Corona Virus thread today?
Can I get a HELL YEAH for sneezing into your antecubital fossa!
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 02, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
Who's winning in the Corona Virus thread today?
Can I get a HELL YEAH for sneezing into your antecubital fossa!
No winners in here no matter what way we look at it.
HELL YEAH!
:laugh:
Oh go on so.. Hell Yeah!! :(
Edit: At least there will be some winners over in the mushroom thread...
Quote from: Ollkiller on October 02, 2020, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 03:52:11 PM
That is exactly it. I have heard so many people lately saying the likes of "it wasn't this bad with Varadkar and Harris and Tony Holohan". Well it was, but the bonus is that Leo gets to throw the hapless Michael Martin under the bus and he will come out of it shining. It's serious politics he played there.
I remember when Martin was announced as Taoiseach. What an own goal. Let Varadker continue and when the inevitable backlash comes you seem far better than wants there.
Michael was blinded by his lust for the top job. Leo could still prove unpopular, if he is back as Taoiseach when this eventually all has to be paid for. Mary Lou must be secretly delighted she did not get to form a government...
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 09:07:06 PM
:laugh:
Oh go on so.. Hell Yeah!! :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3IHD80mK2k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3IHD80mK2k)
I've been wondering for a while why Sinn Fein have been taking a back seat when it comes to opposing any of the craic over the last few months. I see it now, let the other two destroy each other and come in to pick up the pieces. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole either, seeing how they will refuse to oppose country-destroying policies for their own long term gain. They are all as bad as each other when it comes down to it.
Trump hospitalized, just as a precautionary measure for the moment.
Another Boris?
When are we all going to wake the fuck up? Seriously lads, actually look at what is going on now. We are all getting roasted by irrational fear and some cunts are making serious money off us and some other cunts are gaining serious and real control over us all and lots and lots of us are actually fucking begging for it.
Someone tell me I'm not the only one who sees this. It can't be only me out of everyone here.
Why are we letting this happen? Fear is the only answer, and do you know what....? I'm afraid as well. I'm afraid, seeing the whole world having the wool pulled over their eyes and and we are all letting it happen. Mark my words, this is pure unadulterated bollix and it's a coup by consent. Wake the fuck up. We are walking blindly into fascism. It might be the world's most subtle type of fascism ever but let's call a spade a spade.
OR....
It's 100 percent as bad as it is made out to be and the hype is justified. Then it is also only going to get worse and worse no matter what is done to try stop it. The whole thing is so fucked that there is no escape no matter what the truth of it is. If it's exaggerated, we all got a bad doing with more to come, and if it isn't we still all got a bad doing with more to come.
Lol remember the tagline for Aliens Vs Predator? "Whoever wins, we lose". The irony
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 02, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Trump hospitalized, just as a precautionary measure for the moment.
Apparently he's been tweeting from the hospital but he was also tweeting when he was mid-debate with Biden so ::)
Quote from: The Butcher on October 03, 2020, 08:47:30 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 02, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Trump hospitalized, just as a precautionary measure for the moment.
Apparently he's been tweeting from the hospital but he was also tweeting when he was mid-debate with Biden so ::)
You serious? :laugh: There'll never be a troll like him again.
If he was actually tweeting during the debate he's a pretty funny fucker. I hope he gets nothing more than a mild sniffle and comes out and puts a stop to this madness. Of course it could go like Boris and the experience makes him change his tune about the whole thing.
https://youtu.be/kr04gHbP5MQ
This chap is doing a much better job at explaining what I feel is the carry on with all of this shit. I would like to hear some of the lockdown enthusiasts refute all this shit. It's a long one though, so those who haven't the patience for going beyond the headlines and panic stories will have to stay asleep I guess.
Is there anyone here who believes the accepted narrative of the deadly respiratory pathogen that will have a look at this and think twice? No is my guess.
I feel sorry for us all.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 03, 2020, 08:57:58 PM
Quote from: The Butcher on October 03, 2020, 08:47:30 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 02, 2020, 10:59:24 PM
Trump hospitalized, just as a precautionary measure for the moment.
Apparently he's been tweeting from the hospital but he was also tweeting when he was mid-debate with Biden so ::)
You serious? :laugh: There'll never be a troll like him again.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311117188615401473
Debate was 2am our time, that tweet went out after half 2. So I doubt the new tweets from him in the hospital, he'd be all about ringing up Fox News telling them how good he's feeling etc etc to show strength.
*edit* Funnily enough he now has a 4 minute video on his twitter rambling about how he's feeling fine.
That is because he is fine because covid is a load of shite
^
That's the first post of yours that I've read in this thread for a good month. Proof if it were needed that I can continue to skip the rest. Carry on.
Quote from: Carnage on October 04, 2020, 01:03:04 AM
^
That's the first post of yours that I've read in this thread for a good month. Proof if it were needed that I can continue to skip the rest. Carry on.
That's grand man, keep the blinkers on while the world falls to shit around you. Carry on indeed. First though, tell me how has covid affected your life other than the restrictions and the irrational fear...
...exactly
Quote from: astfgyl on October 02, 2020, 10:35:36 PM
I've been wondering for a while why Sinn Fein have been taking a back seat when it comes to opposing any of the craic over the last few months. I see it now, let the other two destroy each other and come in to pick up the pieces. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole either, seeing how they will refuse to oppose country-destroying policies for their own long term gain. They are all as bad as each other when it comes down to it.
So you finally see what Sinn Fein are up to.
. While mainstream parties tend to be all as bad as each other, there are some politicans -- not many, granted, - who will put their principles before political opportunism.
Yeah, and to think I wanted them to get in in the last election as a show of defiance to the usual two. I didn't vote for them though as the local lad seemed like a bit of a bum.
On what basis should they oppose it, exactly? Their leader was laid flat out with it for a couple of weeks so she may have a slightly different opinion about the whole thing than you, no?
There are and were lots of things they could have opposed. Bit of a shinner, are you? Their leader also made a full recovery and didn't need hospital treatment just like the overwhelming majority of "cases". Plenty of people have a different opinion about the whole thing than me. I'm sure you are one of them, too. I was one myself for quite some time.
You said you were wondering why they were taking a backseat in opposing things, but you were making a fairly hasty conclusion as to the reason. Could simply be that they didn't feel they had a strong basis for opposition, in which case doing so would have been foolish, especially but not only politically speaking.
I'll remind you that in France, for example, people are looking at Ireland and saying, "Wow, why aren't we handling and communicating things as well and as clearly as they are?"
In the beginning that was a completely understandable position, to show a united front in the face of what seemed like an unprecedented public health emergency. I have said many times, that no one was to blame for the original response as it really seemed like the right thing to do. Before any of this happened I really thought that a victory for Sinn Fein would be an ideal two fingers to the main two parties and I really hoped they would secure the majority required. Now though, it seems to me that they are as blinkered as the rest of the parties when it comes to questioning any of the narrative surrounding the situation we find ourselves in. Where now is the champion for the underdog that they had painted themselves as for the last 10 years? The meek acceptance of the 5 point plan and the immediate support given to the government and NPHET for the further locking down of counties by county bounds in the face of the severe pressure this puts on the very demographic that they purport to represent, namely the SME's and the non-professionals, was very poor and I personally would have expected to see something more closely resembling an opposition from them. Varadkar had more to say about the case definition than anybody from Sinn Fein has up to now. As the main opposition party, surely the onus is on them to at least ask the questions, especially regarding the role of NPHET in all of this. Instead it's left to Deputy Michael McNamara to ask the questions around all of this. This is where I am getting my conclusion from as to what they are at. Perhaps I will be proven wrong in time. That possibility is never off the table.
Fuck, things must be really be bad in France if they are praising the carry on over here!
What you don't seem to understand is that your new position on COVID has an overwhelming amount of opposition, for the moment at least. In situations of great uncertainty, especially touching on public health, especially when public health was one of the major points of the previous election, one has to be at the polar opposite to reckless.
Maybe I'm understanding you wrong, but your logic seems to be; since SF don't share my skepticism, they're as politically corrupt as FF and FG. That seems unfounded logic to me.
Ah no, I fully understand that I am in the minority by a long long way. Not everyone will be as curious (understatement) as myself about all of this, and the vast majority will read the headlines or watch the nightly briefings and the Late Late on Fridays and also Newstalk every day. My problem with those sources is that they refuse to give any voice or credence to the opposing view. The lack of discussion there really worries me. The Late Late especially is the worst propaganda I have ever seen. This is why I think the opposition should ask the questions even if not necessarily outright disagreeing with it. It seems to me that they are duty bound to do so in the interest of those who they represent. But politics and duty to those they serve don't always go hand in hand.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 04, 2020, 02:37:47 PM
There are and were lots of things they could have opposed. Bit of a shinner, are you? Their leader also made a full recovery and didn't need hospital treatment just like the overwhelming majority of "cases". Plenty of people have a different opinion about the whole thing than me. I'm sure you are one of them, too. I was one myself for quite some time.
Regarding Sinn Fein not opposing anything, Mary Lou is vocal about the government not handing out more money. It easy to say that when you won't be the person in charge when the money has to be paid back. She'll be the very one complaining when the times comes to pay it back, yet if she had her way the burden would be even greater. I suppose if we had entrepreneurs like Slab Murphy overseeing the department of finance things would be better all around
astfgyl won't be happy right about now.
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 04, 2020, 09:15:13 PM
astfgyl won't be happy right about now.
:laugh: :abbath: was thinking the exact same thing.
:laugh:
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 04, 2020, 09:15:13 PM
astfgyl won't be happy right about now.
What did I miss?
Hope he didn't take any mushrooms. Some shit buzz if he did.
Talk of level 5 kicking in nationwide.
Ireland has been promoted to level 5. Crack open the Champers.
Here, I just went off and checked. I did predict Holohan would be back to his hardline shite again. Well they can fuck off with their recommendations as far as I am concerned. There is no actual law for it anyway at the moment. Growth rate of hospitalisations declining throughout September and all.
I don't think anyone is going to be too pleased about this anywhere in the country. Hopefully the cabinet will see sense and recommend that NPHET use the proper metrics to decide on restrictions. Hopes are made to be dashed though.
And yeah thank fucking god I had a bad day out picking. Fair hate to be tripping reading that announcement. Am I alone as usual in thinking this is silly stuff?
Your last few posts on the subject have made you sound like a patronising fuck TBH. You're not some enlightened fellow who sees between the lines. Rates of infection are on the rise, so yeah, it's just you that thinks it's silly.
Quote from: Ducky on October 04, 2020, 09:55:04 PM
Your last few posts on the subject have made you sound like a patronising fuck TBH. You're not some enlightened fellow who sees between the lines. Rates of infection are on the rise, so yeah, it's just you that thinks it's silly.
When did you start speaking for everyone else? You must have no life to be missing. Back to your playstation with you.
A guy that posts nutcase conspiracy theories on a heavy metal forum, goes out picking magic mushrooms and also posts in the videogaming thread tells me I have no life?
Jog on ya arrogant cunt, I honestly hope you fucking catching it and destroy your lungs.
So, eh... anyone for a drop of Champers or....?
Absolutely, but only if served in a tinfoil goblet!
Well Ducky, I wasn't going to get too personal about it, and I have never once been reduced to hoping anybody caught it. Quite the opposite in fact, so I'll ask you a few questions instead.
Have you any kids? Have you a job? Have you a girlfriend or wife? Have you ever had issues with mental health? Are you in an at-risk group? Have you looked into any of the facts around cases and the definition of such? Have you looked into the definition of pandemic and how it has changed in the last few years? Have you done any research into the opposite view to that which is presented by the government and NPHET? What are the conspiracy theories that I have posted here?
I'm sorry to see you stoop so low as to wish illness on someone. It's obviously not just me who is having their head fried by all of this, unless you are a cunt all of the time which doesn't seem to be the case. I hope you have the balls to answer those few simple questions as it might explain why you take the stance you do around all of this.
Average daily mortality rate in Ireland has been essentially one since end of June, despite a significant rise in cases going back 2 months now (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/ click the box to the right of 7-day moving average on each graph). Moving to level 5 on that basis is an invitation to ordinary people to protest en masse, and when they do that there'll be no lack of bullshit out there for them to "research" and the baby could well get thrown out with the bathwater. All stats, risks, and realities considered in a purely empirical manner, I would describe a move to full restriction as a colossally misguided move for Ireland at the moment.
Quote from: Juggz on October 04, 2020, 10:25:27 PM
Absolutely, but only if served in a tinfoil goblet!
Come on man, the tinfoil hat is the lowest common denominator when it comes to putting forward an argument around all of this. Right up there with "muh FrEeduMb". You can disagree with every single thing I say, but surely there is more to swat me away with than that old shite. That and personal insults are pretty poor from grown men.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 04, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
Average daily mortality rate in Ireland has been essentially one since end of June, despite a significant rise in cases going back 2 months now (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/ click the box to the right of 7-day moving average on each graph). Moving to level 5 on that basis is an invitation to ordinary people to protest en masse, and when they do that there'll be no lack of bullshit out there for them to "research" and the baby could well get thrown out with the bathwater. All stats, risks, and realities considered in a purely empirical manner, I would describe a move to full restriction as a colossally misguided move for Ireland at the moment.
That is pretty much what I think of it, but you have a much more eloquent and considered way of making the point than myself, even if you disagree with my general take on the situation. Hopefully you get it and it fucks up your lungs you arrogant cunt.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 04, 2020, 11:00:06 PM
That is pretty much what I think of it, but you have a much more eloquent and considered way of making the point than myself, even if you disagree with my general take on the situation. Hopefully you get it and it fucks up your lungs you arrogant cunt.
Haha; I actually finally got tested today as I had a dose of symptoms again since Thursday. Sorry though, just got my results mailed in and it's negative for me. Going to reply and tell them to whack the sample back in for another 40 cycles just to be sure though! ;)
Quick turnaround on the test there to be fair to them
Thanks to increasing these restrictions, there is no hope I will be allowed into the hospital to see my first child born next month, and be with my wife during it - it was unlikely anyway, and we had exhausted our path of contacting TDs and the like to assist, but now it is completely off the cards. Say what you like about that being a drop in the water in comparison to the overall scope of things, I know it is compared to people dying over it, but it is an incredibly depressing thing to deal with for me right now.
Of course, rather than understanding that this has happened due to both ridiculously unbalanced restrictions and management from the government throughout
and people flaunting said restrictions enough for it to continue to be an issue, maternity care is practically completely ignored as an issue by the current government. In fact their entire treatment of maternity patients/pregnant women during this has been useless, and has been very stressful in a few ways - bar the actual staff in the hospital being decent to her when she arrives for a scan there have been zero supports, such as not even being given a chance to meet a midwife, or have anyone come in with her lest it be bad news early on. Nothing new there for Ireland's healthcare in general I suppose, it was already weak and covid/the response has crippled it further.
The sympathy here is hopefully not lost on a forum of likely entirely male metalheads, since most of ye I know have wives and kids surely ye can understand that though it is not the main effect of covid and doesn't compare to actual deaths, it is still a tough thing to deal with. I am also withered with every time I raise this or discuss this I am met with "what about the deaths" as if I can't fucking see that's an issue too and it is possible for both problems to exist and be dealt with simultaneously.
Separatley,
Quote from: Ducky on October 04, 2020, 10:10:52 PM
A guy that posts nutcase conspiracy theories on a heavy metal forum, goes out picking magic mushrooms and also posts in the videogaming thread tells me I have no life?
Jog on ya arrogant cunt, I honestly hope you fucking catching it and destroy your lungs.
This is mortifying.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 04, 2020, 10:49:11 PM
Average daily mortality rate in Ireland has been essentially one since end of June, despite a significant rise in cases going back 2 months now (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/ click the box to the right of 7-day moving average on each graph). Moving to level 5 on that basis is an invitation to ordinary people to protest en masse, and when they do that there'll be no lack of bullshit out there for them to "research" and the baby could well get thrown out with the bathwater. All stats, risks, and realities considered in a purely empirical manner, I would describe a move to full restriction as a colossally misguided move for Ireland at the moment.
This, entirely, though I know the move is to appear to be doing the right thing and surely they feel it is, a reinforcement of what is working for everyone would be more useful. Long term, looking beyond covid, the types of other things generally tied to these protests and their sources are suspect, and the attachment modern fash movements have to the anti-mask situation will be exploited no end politically, unfortunately. I can't see extreme long term what it means but it is absolutely a hidden right wing element grasping onto the anxieties caused by this whole situation to further other agendas. Tying the idea of nationalism to it in Ireland despairs me.
Dude, your situation is awful! "What about deaths?" doesn't get to cancel out "What about life defining moments?" I think we would have been tempted to travel to Sweden for the birth if we had been presented with that! I dunno if these super fast tests that are to be introduced could help; like you could be tested and have results within an hour of arriving at hospital to know if safe...?
Ya, that's some ball of shite. A totally forgotten about situation in all this.
Quote from: Ducky on October 04, 2020, 10:10:52 PM
A guy that posts nutcase conspiracy theories on a heavy metal forum, goes out picking magic mushrooms and also posts in the videogaming thread tells me I have no life?
Jog on ya arrogant cunt, I honestly hope you fucking catching it and destroy your lungs.
I'd imagine, that his reason for implying that you have no life to be missing stems from your constant harrassing of him for voicing his opinions on this thread - even though he frequently admits that he is fully open to the possibility that he could be completely wrong.
Ducky you have been called out several times on this board and on the old one, by different members for your "pathetic" use of insults. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Quote from: ochoill on October 04, 2020, 11:24:54 PM
Thanks to increasing these restrictions, there is no hope I will be allowed into the hospital to see my first child born next month, and be with my wife during it - it was unlikely anyway, and we had exhausted our path of contacting TDs and the like to assist, but now it is completely off the cards. Say what you like about that being a drop in the water in comparison to the overall scope of things, I know it is compared to people dying over it, but it is an incredibly depressing thing to deal with for me right now.
Of course, rather than understanding that this has happened due to both ridiculously unbalanced restrictions and management from the government throughout and people flaunting said restrictions enough for it to continue to be an issue, maternity care is practically completely ignored as an issue by the current government. In fact their entire treatment of maternity patients/pregnant women during this has been useless, and has been very stressful in a few ways - bar the actual staff in the hospital being decent to her when she arrives for a scan there have been zero supports, such as not even being given a chance to meet a midwife, or have anyone come in with her lest it be bad news early on. Nothing new there for Ireland's healthcare in general I suppose, it was already weak and covid/the response has crippled it further.
The sympathy here is hopefully not lost on a forum of likely entirely male metalheads, since most of ye I know have wives and kids surely ye can understand that though it is not the main effect of covid and doesn't compare to actual deaths, it is still a tough thing to deal with. I am also withered with every time I raise this or discuss this I am met with "what about the deaths" as if I can't fucking see that's an issue too and it is possible for both problems to exist and be dealt with simultaneously.
Separatley,
Quote from: Ducky on October 04, 2020, 10:10:52 PM
A guy that posts nutcase conspiracy theories on a heavy metal forum, goes out picking magic mushrooms and also posts in the videogaming thread tells me I have no life?
Jog on ya arrogant cunt, I honestly hope you fucking catching it and destroy your lungs.
This is mortifying.
That's a pain in the hoop. Having a sprog is stressful enough as you're in unknown territory on a personal level without all these restrictions.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 03, 2020, 10:31:59 PM
https://youtu.be/kr04gHbP5MQ
This chap is doing a much better job at explaining what I feel is the carry on with all of this shit. I would like to hear some of the lockdown enthusiasts refute all this shit.
Has anybody watched this video? I'm about halfway through and it's pretty interesting. Turns out there isn't enough factual basis nor legal basis for a lockdown.
They are declaring PCR testing as bullshit, as it was actually designed back in January, without ever using a sample of Covid-19 from Wuhan, but using a previous sars virus model instead.
For Astfgyl: They are saying that a positive PCR test means fuck all in relation to coronavirus. If that's true though, how would it explain the gap in cases over the summer? Why are cases rising again?
And who specifically are the Coronavirus Investigation Committee trying to sue?
And for anybody who's going to skip this video thinking that it's just some "conspiracy nutcase" talking shite, the man in this video is a Lawyer who has been successfully fighting against fraudulent companies for 26 years, including Deutchebank and Volkswagen.
Edit: That bit about not using the virus from Wuhan was news to me as well when I saw his video. Regarding the PCR test itself, I wouldn't say it means fuck all, those tests are fantastically accurate but so much so that they make "cases" out of basically nothing when ran for enough cycles of amplification. In the US for example, labs were running them for 40 cycles, but there is basically no chance of someone being ill or infectious above about 25. It can be used to paint a picture that can be severely misleading. I put the rise in cases down to the massive rise in testing rather than a massive rise in sick people.
There is of course a bit of a rise in "proper" cases as is inevitable for the time of year, but nothing of the magnitude being reported. There will be a rise in colds and 'flu as well but the level of community testing and testing of close contacts of 'flu cases won't be done. If it were, we could suddenly have an epidemic of asymptomatic 'flu "cases". So it's not that the technology is useless at all, it's just being applied in a way that makes the spread seem so much worse than it is. When the figures are read out, it never indicates how many were asymptomatic and also how many cycles are used in the labs doing the testing. I think that asymptomatic cases are not cases at all and cannot go on to infect others.
The who are they trying to sue question is a good one. I don't know is the answer. He said something about why a class action would be the best option but not what court or vs whom it would be so that is indeed confusing. Will have to look into it a bit more. The big spiel he read out there is pretty much the conclusion I had come to myself was why I posted it as he had a much better way of getting the point across. He doesn't seem to be a bum anyway so that's a good start.
Edit 2: This video is from a guy who puts up some convincing arguments around the rise in "cases" and seems to have coined the term "casedemic" to describe what is happening right now. It seems pretty logical to me anyway
https://youtu.be/LrRijSa8494
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 04, 2020, 11:47:36 PM
Dude, your situation is awful! "What about deaths?" doesn't get to cancel out "What about life defining moments?" I think we would have been tempted to travel to Sweden for the birth if we had been presented with that! I dunno if these super fast tests that are to be introduced could help; like you could be tested and have results within an hour of arriving at hospital to know if safe...?
Cheers. I'm hoping if the fast tests are introduced beforehand it would give some help to the situation. On a positive note she had a call from them this morning and asked about it again, as things stand currently I'll be allowed in afterwards for an hour to them so hopefully that at least stays as is even if measures across the country are increased, but otherwise seemingly I'm not allowed in there nor for a visit after - will just have to come back and pick them both up when they're released, so a day or so after the fact assuming all goes smoothly.
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 05, 2020, 07:52:07 AM
Ya, that's some ball of shite. A totally forgotten about situation in all this.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 05, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
That's a pain in the hoop. Having a sprog is stressful enough as you're in unknown territory on a personal level without all these restrictions.
That's the whole thing I suppose, it just seems so completely forgotten and uncertain that it's an extra stress on top of everything else that has to be done as standard to prep for the kid. And it's not like there's anywhere to argue it directly - it's not the hospital themselves putting these measures in place, it's the HSE and it's across the country, so what use is arguing with them? Also to be fair the staff have been lovely to her when she has been in and they get exactly how stressful it is but they have to do as told understandably.
Congrats regardless young Quill.
Cheers! We probably could have timed it better lol, but otherwise delighted obviously.
The timing is rarely right, one way or d'other. It'll put a halt to your shenanigans for a while haha
QuoteThere is of course a bit of a rise in "proper" cases as is inevitable for the time of year
Yes, as we all know, coronaviruses "inevitably" have a huge spike in autumn, but also spring, but depending on the country, since some follow a different pattern, but either way, it's all very simple once you ignore the epidemiological details, which of course you're allowed to do because the politicians are messing up their response and communication :-\
It's a horrendous situation to be in for the maternity hospitals. Heard about it a while ago because my sister is due the end of the month and has been emailing her TDs trying to get something sorted, but just getting the usual "we are monitoring the situation" bullshit replies
The media outlets just seem to be completely ignoring it
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 05, 2020, 05:34:37 PM
QuoteThere is of course a bit of a rise in "proper" cases as is inevitable for the time of year
Yes, as we all know, coronaviruses "inevitably" have a huge spike in autumn, but also spring, but depending on the country, since some follow a different pattern, but either way, it's all very simple once you ignore the epidemiological details, which of course you're allowed to do because the politicians are messing up their response and communication :-\
Yeah I suppose inevitable wasn't the right word. There is, however evidence of seasonality for the other common types of coronavirus as shown here: https://clinical-virology.net/en/charts/chart/ctype/activity/network/resp/section/viruses/virus/hcovocpos This one also appears to be following a trend of sorts, although not identical to the other types of coronavirus, it seems to be comparable. So nothing to do with anti-political bias this time.
So hopefully the pattern will be similar to what the lad there was predicting. In the northern hemisphere, it is common for respiratory viruses to fall away in summer, only to make a return in the winter months. That is the logic there I suppose. Probably something to do with the vitamin D deficiency during the darker days and more time spent indoors. So more likely to have "proper" cases in the winter months than Viral fragments picked up by testing with no symptoms.
But there was no summer drop off to speak of in the US.
That could be explained by the differences in latitudes, with the northern states experiencing a different seasonality than the southern states. The graph of the whole US does not account for this difference.
On the maternity thing, I understand your distress man, I had a niece born a few weeks ago under similar restrictions, but there is probably a sound medical basis for such severe measures.
Settings like hospitals (and nursing homes) have to keep the virus out at all costs. The working environment is very conducive to spread and those inside are the most vulnerable and likely to die prematurely. I'm in a pharmacy and we lost 4 regulars to covid, all linked to hospital transmission. All 4 had underlying conditions as well. But they have to do absolutely everything to try and keep it out of that setting. If even one prospective dad is positive, visits and introduces a cluster into a hospital setting that is a risk they cannot take.
Totally shit, and again I do feel for you, being a dad/husband myself.
Despite all that I would have a lot of sympathy for astfygl's reading of things. How history judges these times will be very interesting.
Some old and sick die prematurely from this. Most of the rest have had their lives put on hold. But how do you justify choosing death to allow freedom?
Quote from: Grim Reality on October 05, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
Some old and sick die prematurely from this. Most of the rest have had their lives put on hold. But how do you justify choosing death to allow freedom?
Probably the same way we justify choosing to buy smart phones and cheap clothes, when we know that some poor cunts on the other side of the world are suffering for our luxeries. I'd also add "Many have had their lives destroyed as a result of anti-covid measures" to your quote there.
How old were your 4 regulars, if you don't mind me asking?
Govt has rejected NPHET level 5 recommendation. What is it all a show astfygl? It may well have been and all!
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1005/1169652-covid-19/
Ah no lads, I fully understand that people have died and that people have suffered and whatever bollix I do say, I won't ever make light of the effect this has had on people. It is not in any way worthy of taking the piss. Sure ye can all see the effect the whole thing has had on my own brain and I don't even know anyone with it (well me cousin has it but he is the finest, young healthy etc) but the situation is unlike anything any of us has ever seen before so no denying that. the reason I'm digging so hard into it is that I'm looking for a way out tbh.
In more positive news, Mike Ryan of the WHO says that they estimate 750 million infections so far. Given a million reported deaths, and even doubling that to allow for uncertainty, that gives a fatality rate of 0.00266666666. Fuck even I didn't think it was that low. Let's quadruple it just to be sure... 0.00533333333. That can't be fucking right and I'm not even joking now saying that.
Edit: Wait I made a right fuck of those maths. Forgot to multiply it by 100. well that makes it 0.1% rate. Well I won't be quadrupling that then... and still I have a nagging feeling that it is lower again. No substance to that though
My honest opinion on NPHET and the carry on of them is another story altogether. Back to the public floggings perhaps?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 05, 2020, 11:22:20 PM
Govt has rejected NPHET level 5 recommendation. What is it all a show astfygl? It may well have been and all!
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1005/1169652-covid-19/
Bit of a gamble..if it doesn't pay off, easy for opposition to point towards them ignoring NPHET recommendations, going on solo run and probably being forced to go to level 5 at a later date running the risk of....RUINING CHRISTMAS....which in Ireland would result in severe :abbath: :abbath: :abbath: serious note though...if our hospitals start to get overrun...FF/FG/Greens will be in huge trouble.
On the maternity side of things, wife was kept in from 34 weeks, wasn't allowed in to see her, had to meet her in the car park, then she had to get an emergency c-section, I was allowed in for the surgery but I wasn't allowed back to the ward with her after recovery which sucked...we had to take turns going to NICU, they wouldn't let us both on the same 12 hour shift so she's go up during the morning or afternoon and I'd have to go late at night. Not ideal but can't fault the brilliant staff, they are working under tough conditions and covid doesn't help with all that. I feel for anyone having to deal with the restrictions like this and for weddings/funerals. What strange times.
Did any of our hospitals actually get overrun at any stage of this pandemic, with people being stuck for emergency treatment?
When my last 2 were born, we had to go in shifts to the hospital for a month due to having other kids to look after and it was rough. I can't imagine doing it all under the current conditions. I genuinely hope ye are all getting on ok with it. It certainly isn't any fault of the staff who have to play with the hand they have been dealt.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 05, 2020, 11:22:20 PM
Govt has rejected NPHET level 5 recommendation. What is it all a show astfygl? It may well have been and all!
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1005/1169652-covid-19/
Like the budget or something, say the tax is going up 10% and then hit us for 5% type of thing? I hope it isn't that sort of silly stuff and instead the government have copped on a bit that there is more than one game in town.
Here have a read of this. Some of you might even sign it.. No bums on here, either. All proper.
https://gbdeclaration.org/
Quote from: Giggles on October 06, 2020, 12:00:08 AM
Did any of our hospitals actually get overrun at any stage of this pandemic, with people being stuck for emergency treatment?
There was a big drop in the number of people attending/being admitted to hospital with non-Covid illnesses back in March-May and I know hospitals cancelled elective surgeries and were able to increase ICU capacity at that time...but looks like now we are back to original ICU capacity that we had pre-pandemic which is scandalous in itself considering we had 6 months to improve this situation...and if it was actually improved properly, maybe we wouldn't have had panic recommendations to jump straight to level 5 nationwide for fear of overrunning the health system because this time around we don't have the same fear we did at the start and people are going to hospital instead of postponing. Read we only have 39 ICU beds left and most are taken up by non-covid patients. As I said, big risk for government doing this solo run if we start seeing decisions on who to save...when we saw this in Italy I believe this is what kicked Leo/Harris into gear back in mid-March. The comms from this government has been a bit of a shambles.
That capacity hasn't increased greatly in the last 6 months is scandalous.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 05, 2020, 11:22:20 PM
Govt has rejected NPHET level 5 recommendation. What is it all a show astfygl? It may well have been and all!
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1005/1169652-covid-19/
Getting quite feisty too....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40060064.html
That's exactly the same info, same quotes, same source, but sensationalized by a columnist :laugh:
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 06, 2020, 10:53:21 AM
That capacity hasn't increased greatly in the last 6 months is scandalous.
Apparently there is a lack of qualified staff to operate ICU areas. This is extraordinary incompetence given we knew this virus was likely to be seasonal, but it will be pass the buck time as to who is to blame.
In other news Tony and Leo aren't friends anymore. If the government prove to be right in rejecting the NPHET reccommendations, then Tony's credibility is shattered. The evidence from Donegal and Dublin is that level 3 measure are sufficient to stabilise case rates. You would love to think after all this is over, we will have a health service fit for purpose- but that's pie in the sky stuff, they'll just thrown more money at it, with nothing to show for it.
Quote from: Giggles on October 05, 2020, 11:21:44 PM
Quote from: Grim Reality on October 05, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
Some old and sick die prematurely from this. Most of the rest have had their lives put on hold. But how do you justify choosing death to allow freedom?
Probably the same way we justify choosing to buy smart phones and cheap clothes, when we know that some poor cunts on the other side of the world are suffering for our luxeries. I'd also add "Many have had their lives destroyed as a result of anti-covid measures" to your quote there.
How old were your 4 regulars, if you don't mind me asking?
80s - in very poor health
80s - underlying conditions but relatively good health
70s - underlying conditions
60s- severe underlying condition
Quote from: Cailleach on October 06, 2020, 01:16:05 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 06, 2020, 10:53:21 AM
That capacity hasn't increased greatly in the last 6 months is scandalous.
Apparently there is a lack of qualified staff to operate ICU areas. This is extraordinary incompetence given we knew this virus was likely to be seasonal, but it will be pass the buck time as to who is to blame.
It's a year long postgrad diploma to be qualified to work in ICU, so even if they tried to bump up staff numbers by getting people to take the course they still wouldn't be able to work there yet.
The blame can be laid at successive government's for the last 10-15 of terrible management and underfunding to the health service that's made nursing such an unpalatable career
Ah, I didn't realise the training took that long. That doesn't bode well.
Give it a few years and we'll be back wondering why we're paying to have a load of extra ICU capacity we're not using and complaining about that.
Quote from: Juggz on October 06, 2020, 02:48:21 PM
Give it a few years and we'll be back wondering why we're paying to have a load of extra ICU capacity we're not using and complaining about that.
Those who choose to forget the past are condemned to repeat the bastard. There's been a large amount of maggotry-acting over the course of this pandemic, mostly those who want things to be as they were when it's not possible right now. If people go sniping about the upkeep of ICU after all this, I totally despair of them.
Quote from: Trev on October 06, 2020, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Cailleach on October 06, 2020, 01:16:05 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 06, 2020, 10:53:21 AM
That capacity hasn't increased greatly in the last 6 months is scandalous.
Apparently there is a lack of qualified staff to operate ICU areas. This is extraordinary incompetence given we knew this virus was likely to be seasonal, but it will be pass the buck time as to who is to blame.
It's a year long postgrad diploma to be qualified to work in ICU, so even if they tried to bump up staff numbers by getting people to take the course they still wouldn't be able to work there yet.
The blame can be laid at successive government's for the last 10-15 of terrible management and underfunding to the health service that's made nursing such an unpalatable career
. Regarding the training, could they not have tried to recruit people from abroad who were already qualified to work in ICU. What about all those Irish medical professionals who volunteered to come back here and work in March? Surely some of those would have this qualification. Is it the case you need to have done the course here?
Game changer alert.....
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-54338864#aoh=16020110354229&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
The game won't change. It's a vaccine or nothing. Then when one arrives whether it works or not, just like the flu vaccine which has wildly varying degrees of success from one year to the next, governments can say we are saved and simply accept that there will be deaths as there is with other respiratory viruses. Doubling down until a vaccine that isn't the new thalidomide or asbestos or pandemrix gets out on the market is the only option for governments to justify all that has happened while also returning to some version of living as normal. The hype is too much for anyone to stop now until that happens. Sure look at flu. Vaccine every year, still kills up to 650,000 yearly. Mostly the aged or those with underlying conditions, causes post-viral fatigue, has death rate of 0.1% yet life goes on as normal because of the lack of hype and media induced fear. This will be the same, but only with a vaccine to get the decision makers out of the fix they are currently in. I won't be taking it, but I hope it comes along as much as any of those who will be taking it. It might even work. A big question around that for me is will the mass testing stop once there is a vaccine or is it this shit for good?
Rapid testing in settings such as hospitals and nursing homes will help a lot of people right now though so it is very much welcomed. I hope it gets rolled out faster than the other types of rapid tests which have been ready to go since March.
In the meantime, the Great Barrington Declaration, headed by Dr. Martin Kulldorff, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and co-signed by a few other nobodies like Dr. Michael Levitt (who only has the one Nobel Prize to his name), calls for an entirely different approach to the whole thing.
It is available for anyone to read or sign at https://gbdeclaration.org/ and isn't anti-vaccine or of the "let 'em die" persuasion in the slightest. It will be a case of pissing into the wind though I reckon, for the reasons outlined in the first paragraph here. The rapid testing could be a great help for that approach if it were to be taken up. Anyone here read it yet? I like it, but I honestly feel it needs more detail.
Interesting that it's signed by what appears to be some true experts in their field. I'd get on board with that strategy if young and/or healthy people who have got it didn't have any longer terms symptoms in subsequent weeks/months.
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 06, 2020, 10:02:32 PM
Interesting that it's signed by what appears to be some true experts in their field. I'd get on board with that strategy if young and/or healthy people who have got it didn't have any longer terms symptoms in subsequent weeks/months.
That is the big "if" in all of this. These lads seem pretty confident it won't be the case but the same could be said for many experts who think the opposite I guess. I'm still thinking the vaccine is the only way out for governments though, but personally I'd be willing to risk it. Then again Trev on here didn't have a great time after it, so it's an "if" worth considering. How are you getting on of late, Trev?
Those bums over at The Lancet have an interesting bit to say about false positives and pretest probability..
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext#figures
QuoteHowever, importantly, no data suggests that detection of low levels of viral RNA by RT-PCR equates with infectivity unless infectious virus particles have been confirmed with laboratory culture-based methods. If viral load is low, it might need to be taken into account when assessing the validity of the result.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 06, 2020, 09:03:36 PM
In the meantime, the Great Barrington Declaration, headed by Dr. Martin Kulldorff, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and co-signed by a few other nobodies like Dr. Michael Levitt (who only has the one Nobel Prize to his name), calls for an entirely different approach to the whole thing.
It is available for anyone to read or sign at https://gbdeclaration.org/ and isn't anti-vaccine or of the "let 'em die" persuasion in the slightest. It will be a case of pissing into the wind though I reckon, for the reasons outlined in the first paragraph here. The rapid testing could be a great help for that approach if it were to be taken up. Anyone here read it yet? I like it, but I honestly feel it needs more detail.
I've been keeping an eye on this and I've noticed that over 2000 scientists and medical practitioners have signed it in the last 12 hours alone.
As for getting a vaccine? Fuck that. According to worldometers, 99% of all current cases are in mild condition. I'll take my chances.
Apologies if this has already been posted, but I've only just seen it now. Proof that people who have Covid, but die of other things ie. heart attacks are being recorded as a Covid death.
People who test positive for Covid, but are hospitalised for other things ie. broken leg, are being recorded as being hospitalised for Covid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZolPvWW8oo
Here, will you sign my Covid cast??
Quote from: Giggles on October 07, 2020, 09:39:57 PM
Apologies if this has already been posted, but I've only just seen it now. Proof that people who have Covid, but die of other things ie. heart attacks are being recorded as a Covid death.
People who test positive for Covid, but are hospitalised for other things ie. broken leg, are being recorded as being hospitalised for Covid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZolPvWW8oo
Keep the numbers up. Keep the fear up. Simples!
That's NumberWang!
:'(
Quote from: astfgyl on October 07, 2020, 10:16:56 PM
That's NumberWang!
:'(
Perfect use of Numberwang :abbath:
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/01/sweden-has-destroyed-the-case-for-lockdown/
Let's all beg for level 5!
That is one perspective. There was another article I was reading about how 22 scientists in Sweden refute this very strongly and want to take the road of lockdown. I think either way gets the same result, except lockdown makes it hurt for longer and hurts more people but looking at all sides is important.
Here is another thought: Health minister Stephen Donnelly recently underwent a C19 test because he had symptoms. This chap is the poster boy for measures such as we all adhere to (yes, even me). He didn't have the hype virus, but what he did have was a cold. So his measures didn't work then, did they? Is it fair to assume that if he managed to catch any virus at all that the measures don't work? You either get it or you don't. I know plenty who don't bother with any of it and didn't get as much as a cold and also some who follow all the rules and still picked up viral infections. Think about that for a minute if you happen to be capable of thinking things that RTE doesn't happen to tell you to think.
The Swedes, as usual, planned, thought things out, strategised using cool heads and came to a conclusion. Nothing like the reactionary mess here in Spain. An absolute shitshow of bumbling from one measure to another.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 08, 2020, 06:53:32 AM
The Swedes, as usual, planned, thought things out, strategised using cool heads and came to a conclusion.
That's not quite true. It just happened that the scientists in positions to drive policy happened to be of an opposing view to their counterparts in almost every other country.
The idea of the "Swedish alternative" is definitely being more and more dangled into the public's awareness though. This article has had a place on the front page of the Guardian website for almost three weeks now, which is unprecedented (same article I posted when it first appeared):
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/25/what-lessons-can-europe-learn-from-sweden-covid-19-experience
Whatever does happen here and in lots of other places, at least we have the Swedish test case to use as an example of the opposite approach. I see the latest craic on the papers here today.. "lockdown now to save Christmas". They are getting desperate to whet the public appetite for Lockdown 2. It will work as well. Not the lockdown, the fear of no christmas. I see people begging like dogs for it already.
Ironically, you could call it a sort of manifestation of Stockholm Syndrome!
Quote from: astfgyl on October 08, 2020, 02:28:15 PM
Whatever does happen here and in lots of other places, at least we have the Swedish test case to use as an example of the opposite approach. I see the latest craic on the papers here today.. "lockdown now to save Christmas". They are getting desperate to whet the public appetite for Lockdown 2. It will work as well. Not the lockdown, the fear of no christmas. I see people begging like dogs for it already.
Ironically, you could call it a sort of manifestation of Stockholm Syndrome!
Aye the fear of no Christmas. Tbh if they did level 5 from 01st to 15th of December and we could have a normal crimbo most people would go for it. If theres no pubs at Christmas they'll be war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGsCLS-uHao
No? :P
Quote from: astfgyl on October 08, 2020, 02:28:15 PM
I see the latest craic on the papers here today.. "lockdown now to save Christmas".
Hahahha epic. Fuck the wellbeing of the people, we gotta save christmas!
Save the pubs for Christmas :abbath:
Have they said whether they'll pay for us to stay at home if there's another full lockdown?
They will pay, but on a lesser scale.
Bit of food for thought here. The goalposts seem to be moving a bit. Expect to hear a lot more of this in the very near future. https://www.rt.com/op-ed/502795-boris-johnson-uk-great-reset/
And then check out https://iapi.ie/events/the-great-reset-ireland
So whether it takes off or not, expect to hear a lot more of it.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 08, 2020, 04:31:33 PM
Have they said whether they'll pay for us to stay at home if there's another full lockdown?
They voted down the restoration of the PUP, so no for now. But I reckon they'll do something 'positive' before the budget, because that's gonna be a hard one.
Creches are already sending out notes telling parents to prepare for a second full lockdown, it's coming.
Do the creches stay open regardless? The 5 point plan turned out a bit funny, as in Dublin immediately got level 2 and a bit and everywhere else didn't exactly graduate through the levels either. Either way the full lockdown is inevitable and has been from the get-go. Most winters are bad anyway, why should this one be any better.
They need to change that framework entirely. Dublin being a prime example of level 2 and a half. Nowhere are schools closing mentioned, was their plan to keep them open regardless of how bad things went?
I think the international evidence shows schools as extremely low risk, and that has been taken on board thankfully. With the fallout from the Leaving Cert still looming, I'd say they are desperate not to repeat any of that sort of lark again.
I agree, ya, but surely there's a point where it might be necessary where things need drastic action. I suppose I'm not likely to convince you of all people 😂
An avalanche of deaths, comparable to what we saw in April/May but at the same ratio to cases we saw at the time would see me come out and admit I was wrong. The current trend of 0.3 deaths per million per day doesn't have me convinced though. That is just normal figures for the time of year, even disregarding the "with" argument. Cases are meaningless though if they don't lead to the expected hospitalisations, ICU flooding and deaths. If the deaths start cranking up, action would have to be taken of some sort but I don't think the schoolkids will be the driver of it. I have to for once commend the government on that bit of logic at least.
This was a headline in a UK paper today. The facts are starting to emerge - will we be able to change our beliefs?
Coronavirus lockdowns 'may kill MORE than herd immunity strategy does': Strict restrictions and school closures could increase deaths as Covid bounces back, major study finds
Ministers were last night under intense pressure to rethink after experts cast fresh doubt over Covid restrictions.
Research released on Wednesday shows that strict lockdowns – particularly those curbing the activities of the young – are unlikely to cut deaths in the long run and may even increase them.
The Edinburgh University study examined various lockdown-style scenarios and found that while they might protect hospitals, they could also prolong the pandemic and prevent the build-up of herd immunity.
The scientists concluded that coronavirus required a different strategy from a flu epidemic – and the focus should be on shielding the elderly and vulnerable.
Lead author Professor Graeme Ackland, from Edinburgh University, said: 'Unless a vaccine magically appears and is rolled out across the entire population in the next six months, then shutting down society is unlikely to reduce overall deaths.'
Any of it sound familiar?
Again, that's the herd immunity argument, more or less, and that's not a credible route as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 08, 2020, 08:54:50 PM
Again, that's the herd immunity argument, more or less, and that's not a credible route as far as I'm concerned.
But what is, as far as you are concerned?
Shutting everything down and the pain, suffering and deaths associated with that aren't the answer. So what is?
The only thing that'd work is people not acting the maggot. We've too many Gemmaroids and her ilk, we've people who don't think it'll affect em, and people who simply don't give a shit about society at large, sadly. Where Sweden can give guidance and the vast majority heed that advice, we have a large cohort of spastics. So, in that at least, Sweden are ahead of us. It takes drastic measures for people to take note here.
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 08, 2020, 09:50:08 PM
The only thing that'd work is people not acting the maggot. We've too many Gemmaroids and her ilk, we've people who don't think it'll affect em, and people who simply don't give a shit about society at large, sadly. Where Sweden can give guidance and the vast majority heed that advice, we have a large cohort of spastics. So, in that at least, Sweden are ahead of us. It takes drastic measures for people to take note here.
Hear hear.
Ok, not my own idea, but say a virus gets out with 0% death rate, but is tested and measured as this one and 10% of the world has it so far...
How many deaths with?
Maths time. Anyone want to play?
Big loada spoof is what it is. 90% of Irish deaths are people who are nearly 90 years old. The thing has been around for nigh on a year. This is what happens when you have too much government. Rudderless.
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 08, 2020, 09:50:08 PM
The only thing that'd work is people not acting the maggot. We've too many Gemmaroids and her ilk, we've people who don't think it'll affect em, and people who simply don't give a shit about society at large, sadly. Where Sweden can give guidance and the vast majority heed that advice, we have a large cohort of spastics. So, in that at least, Sweden are ahead of us. It takes drastic measures for people to take note here.
I honestly think that that is the pushed narrative and in reality there is actually no one to blame. Sure the most protected people in the world, i.e the elite sportspeople, still get it, or even when they test negative have still picked up some other viral infection and needed to be tested. It can't be stopped, measures or no measures, tests or no tests. It has been and will be the same in any country, lockdown or not and that is the way of it. I invite you to play the numberwang that I mentioned in my last post. The results are really weird. Real or not, measures or not, it is guaranteed to run its' course.
The only possible argument for measures is that it might slow down the inevitable road to ICU. Not a hope it will stop it. only possibly slow it a bit. Otherwise it is solitary confinement until a vaccine that may or may not work. Flu vaccine has been 50% effective in its' best ever showing. It won't work. No theories, no "fuck em", nothing like that, but logic and realising that other viral infections are as normal shows it's hopeless to lock down whether we obey or not.
That's how I see it. Honestly no bollixing, try the numbers game. Masks will work but only in combination with proper hard solitary confinement and if that is the only option I'm willing to take my chances vs this option
Coercive control: A crime as it goes.. https://www.healthline.com/health/coercive-control#controlling-your-body Does any of this sound familiar?
Or any of this? https://www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-mental-abuse#emotional-neglect-and-isolation
Good old read, this stuff. So if a person does this to you, it's abuse, and the government condemns it. Seemingly not if it comes from government though. Odd, that.
https://www.aier.org/article/reddits-censorship-of-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The closing down of debate around all of this has been the most disturbing element of it for me. At least on a forum like this we can discuss it regardless of our viewpoints, and even if someone is talking shit, there is the opportunity to hash that out. Shutting down the voices of dissent is not good for anyone really.
Scott Atlas has endorsed the declaration, so that should improve its' reach a bit. Good few signing it now, but the numbers are still a drop in the ocean at the moment.
They were looking to lockdown this weekend in a bunch of zones in Madrid. Went to the high court and the judge said they can't lock down without declaring a red alert. Otherwise, it's the government overstepping itself. An interesting development.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-08/madrid-high-court-strikes-down-health-ministrys-coronavirus-restrictions.html%3foutputType=amp
When you take into consideration that a lad I train with who is a chef for example is only entitled to 500 quid a month on the dole things start to take on a different meaning. A large part of the population paid in 'negro' aswell which means they're paid cash for working in pubs etc and, as such, are not entitled to the dole. I've heard estimated of up to 20% of the economy runs in that way, outside the confines of income taxes etc. I'd imagine Ireland works very differently in that regard but a point will come where enough will have to be enough I'd imagine.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 09, 2020, 09:49:28 AM
https://www.aier.org/article/reddits-censorship-of-the-great-barrington-declaration/
The closing down of debate around all of this has been the most disturbing element of it for me. At least on a forum like this we can discuss it regardless of our viewpoints, and even if someone is talking shit, there is the opportunity to hash that out. Shutting down the voices of dissent is not good for anyone really.
Scott Atlas has endorsed the declaration, so that should improve its' reach a bit. Good few signing it now, but the numbers are still a drop in the ocean at the moment.
Yeah, I think this has become one of the best resources for me when it comes to Corona info, there's some good heads here that can either immediately rubbish a certain angle, or lend it some further validity. Censorship like that gets us nowhere.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 09, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
A large part of the population paid in 'negro' aswell
I know I'm not supposed to laugh...
Quote from: astfgyl on October 09, 2020, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on October 09, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
A large part of the population paid in 'negro' aswell
I know I'm not supposed to laugh...
Drink some of this to laugh harder....
https://spritbox.com/ireland/spirits/negrita-dark-rum-37-5-vol-100cl.html
Quote from: astfgyl on October 09, 2020, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on October 09, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
A large part of the population paid in 'negro' aswell
I know I'm not supposed to laugh...
It's a fairly common way of expressing anything of that nature, the Black Market in English. In Germany for example using public transport without a ticket is "Schwarzfahren", literally "driving black".
And we wonder why people get all het up about words. Negro means black in Spanish. Similar to black market, exactly. FFS :laugh:
Just called a state of alarm here the cunts
Quote from: Pedrito on October 09, 2020, 01:23:57 PM
And we wonder why people get all het up about words. Negro means black in Spanish. Similar to black market, exactly. FFS :laugh:
That's it.
Delightfully off topic, but it's also why "black man" as Gaeilge is actually "blue man". Because "Fear Dubh" was already used to describe the devil. And it's probably worse to be going round calling people "devils" as opposed to "blue"! Fairly hilarious quirk tbh
Quote from: Pedrito on October 09, 2020, 01:23:57 PM
And we wonder why people get all het up about words. Negro means black in Spanish. Similar to black market, exactly. FFS :laugh:
I knew exactly what it meant. Like I don't speak Spanish but I know enough to know what negro means there. It just put me in mind of the Irish old phrase of working like a black was all. Or the more offensive way some folks used to have of describing low paid, difficult work, such as that which might be found out in the bog or strawberry field. I understand it's about at the Richie Kavanagh level of humour, (Aon focal, or Did you ever get a ride on a tractor) but I can't help it every now and again. Something I did learn the other day though was that my colleague from Catalonia is not overly keen on being called Spanish, or me referring to the language she speaks as Spanish, although she did explain that there is little difference between one language and the other.. so it's a real minefield saying anything these days.
Knew about the blue fellas and the origin of that one as well. Come on lads, I'm not that thick most of the time
Catalan birds like that can be tough going alright until Spain wins a world cup and then they're all Spanish for a day.
I should have known to be honest since her first day when I called her Spanish. To be fair, the lecture only lasted an hour or so, so I think I might have gotten off lightly!
Did she put her diddies in your face after? I should hope so for enduring an hour of that!
I have black colouring pencils in work that have negro wrote on them.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 09, 2020, 02:12:48 PM
Did she put her diddies in your face after? I should hope so for enduring an hour of that!
I honestly don't know which would be worse
https://twitter.com/teapleasebob1/status/1314527590447751168/photo/1
Some might fnd this interesting but wholly unsurprising.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 09, 2020, 05:30:57 PM
https://twitter.com/teapleasebob1/status/1314527590447751168/photo/1
Some might fnd this interesting but wholly unsurprising.
QuoteQ please bob - Catholic, Irish, and sceptical of everything globe related. Climate change denier and Covid19 denier.
Ah yeah, I'd say that lad knows how PCRs work alright.
Related profile recommendations; Ivor Cummins and...Grand Torino! What lovely company.
Get your stories straight man. Your strongest narrative is that we don't need to shut down everything just because there is an explosion of overall cases, and that instead we need to focus our attention only on capacity of the health services and percentage of critical to fatal cases. Your weakest narrative - which completely undermines your ability to be persuasive with the first - is that "they" are trying to make us believe there are more cases than there really are via technical means that neither you nor Ivor Cummins nor this latest clown know anything about. This, "if it weren't for the test, we wouldn't have even noticed the excess deaths in March" type horseshit. "Covid19 deniers" are not what are needed. Covid19 pragmatists is what's bloody needed.
I don't know who Grand Torino is. I think Ivor Cummins has some interesting things to point out, and none of them involve it not being noticed as a massive spike in March/April. That scenario was entirely of my own imagination and Cummins would disagree very strongly with that. He comes from a different angle altogether. You should check out a few of his analyses of the data available and I don't think you would write him off so quickly. Unfortunately, the fella who got the FOI request answer also says there on the sidebar that he is a climate change denier, which is regrettable and also has plenty of the full conspiracy theorist crowd in the responses. It's a pity I couldn't have simply linked the letter but the answer to the request remains the same. Case of playing the ball and not the man here with this one. My original interest in looking into the case explosion was inspired by a gut feeling and by Carl Heneghan. Heneghan says over about 30 is not worth thinking about, HSE says 40-45. Would you agree with Heneghan on that one?
The answer to the weakest narrative part is not a "they" thing. Testing is worth serious money for the facilities who perform them and for the manufacturers of said tests. There is the simple answer and how those results are applied is of no consequence to those performing them as long as the money rolls in. That's my assessment of that. You rightly point out that I know not a lot about how PCR works, but as you often advised me before in this very thread, I'm doing my research! The real issue here with that is that very little of the decision makers know how it works either, and so see a positive result as simply another case. I think that when someone has symptoms and a good pre-test probability, that the PCR at a lower CT value can be perfectly well used to confirm diagnosis and give a clear picture of "cases". I'm sure you would agree with that.
QuoteYour strongest narrative is that we don't need to shut down everything just because there is an explosion of overall cases, and that instead we need to focus our attention only on capacity of the health services and percentage of critical to fatal cases.
That was what I was getting at in posting the FOI response. I reckon we agree on that. I think I'm arriving at pragmatism in coming to that realisation excepting a few diversions and rabbit holes along the way.
Edit: Here is someone who is not a denier, and the treatment of him for criticising lockdown is terrible. People like this fella are speaking out and have experience of dealing with covid patients, and are being silenced in a terrible fashion. It is this sort of thing which really worries me. No one must criticise on pain of removal from their job. It is just all wrong
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/limerick-doctor-who-spoke-at-anti-mask-rally-remains-defiant-1.4375953?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Gran Torino is a tool, that tweet came from a bad auld camp in general and I wouldn't even believe it until someone without an agenda brings it up - these are the exact crowd that are only entertaining an anti-mask stance to lure in and bump up numbers at fash rallies unfortunately. The same crowd that are anti-mask until one of them needs to wear a mask while cracking a woman across the back of the head with a 2x4 wrapped in the Irish flag. Woeful cunts, in other words.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 09, 2020, 06:39:55 PM
The answer to the weakest narrative part is not a "they" thing. Testing is worth serious money for the facilities who perform them and for the manufacturers of said tests. There is the simple answer and how those results are applied is of no consequence to those performing them as long as the money rolls in. That's my assessment of that. You rightly point out that I know not a lot about how PCR works, but as you often advised me before in this very thread, I'm doing my research! The real issue here with that is that very little of the decision makers know how it works either, and so see a positive result as simply another case. I think that when someone has symptoms and a good pre-test probability, that the PCR at a lower CT value can be perfectly well used to confirm diagnosis and give a clear picture of "cases". I'm sure you would agree with that.
You yourself posted the quote from Leo saying that maybe we need to be paying more attention to hospitalizations and fatalities and less attention to overall cases. That shift, however, needs to be encouraged in a way that keeps the baby firmly wrapped in the bath towel as it throws out the bathwater of panic over case numbers. Claiming that the number of PCR cycles is giving a false impression of the number of overall cases is two things, and this bit is important in terms of policy and strategy. So, it's 1) extremely difficult to argue in a way that is both digestible to the masses and not over-simplified nonsense to scientists who disagree (for example, risk of false negatives with clinical PCR application is much higher than risk of false positives, regardless of number of cycles, being the number 1 thing those pushing this narrative never mention). Then, even more strategically important, it's 2)
a moot point as soon as public attention and policy-driving focus is successfully shifted
away from the number of overall cases and onto the number of hospitalizations and fatalities.
You really need to take a minute, put parentheses around these ideas of "it's all just about labs making money", and reflect on why the entire PCR doubt is a moot point with regards to how to deal with the pandemic, if and when overall case numbers are no longer the bottom line driving policy. And, I believe, once you've really thought about it, you'll stop paying attention to and stop talking about supposed problems with the PCR testing method.
Quote from: ochoill on October 09, 2020, 07:54:29 PM
Gran Torino is a tool
He's a fucking gobshyte of the highest order. Wrapping himself in the Irish flag using the nationalism card whilst having served in the British army. Blocks anyone who disagrees with him. Doesn't like facts apparently...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 09, 2020, 08:13:50 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 09, 2020, 06:39:55 PM
The answer to the weakest narrative part is not a "they" thing. Testing is worth serious money for the facilities who perform them and for the manufacturers of said tests. There is the simple answer and how those results are applied is of no consequence to those performing them as long as the money rolls in. That's my assessment of that. You rightly point out that I know not a lot about how PCR works, but as you often advised me before in this very thread, I'm doing my research! The real issue here with that is that very little of the decision makers know how it works either, and so see a positive result as simply another case. I think that when someone has symptoms and a good pre-test probability, that the PCR at a lower CT value can be perfectly well used to confirm diagnosis and give a clear picture of "cases". I'm sure you would agree with that.
You yourself posted the quote from Leo saying that maybe we need to be paying more attention to hospitalizations and fatalities and less attention to overall cases. That shift, however, needs to be encouraged in a way that keeps the baby firmly wrapped in the bath towel as it throws out the bathwater of panic over case numbers. Claiming that the number of PCR cycles is giving a false impression of the number of overall cases is two things, and this bit is important in terms of policy and strategy. So, it's 1) extremely difficult to argue in a way that is both digestible to the masses and not over-simplified nonsense to scientists who disagree (for example, risk of false negatives with clinical PCR application is much higher than risk of false positives, regardless of number of cycles, being the number 1 thing those pushing this narrative never mention). Then, even more strategically important, it's 2) a moot point as soon as public attention and policy-driving focus is successfully shifted away from the number of overall cases and onto the number of hospitalizations and fatalities.
You really need to take a minute, put parentheses around these ideas of "it's all just about labs making money", and reflect on why the entire PCR doubt is a moot point with regards to how to deal with the pandemic, if and when overall case numbers are no longer the bottom line driving policy. And, I believe, once you've really thought about it, you'll stop paying attention to and stop talking about supposed problems with the PCR testing method.
I think your assessment of all of that as a moot point probably right. The pre-test probability thing was in the article from The Lancet I was reading. My point about the test is not that it doesn't work, or even about the false negatives or positives. It's more that the results can be interpreted as anything one wants to interpret them as. ICU will be full, deaths will increase, lockdown part 2 is already underway. All of that is inevitable, so I'm going to say that we are in agreement on which metrics are important for it all and we are only arguing the toss for the sake of it. We all have the same access to the same information on it, I have no interest in finding out who Gran Torino is, and if I stay looking at all of this I will only end up there eventually finding out anyway. I see that most of the stats are numberwang anyway and no one here knows any more than anyone else about it all. I've done my research, I've drawn my own conclusion and I'm only torturing myself going into it any more, as I can't change how the outside world reacts to it all, only how I do. So I'll look forward to arguing the toss in some other threads for a bit, as this is only getting my head melted. I will have to try take the Gandhi route and be the change I wish to see in the world. The only sensible thing here for me is to step away from this thread until something new or different happens because I'm here arguing it out with yourself and we seem to actually be in broad agreement when it comes down to it regarding the things that should be responded to, i.e. ICU capacity and deaths. Can't change years of the health service being decimated, can't change the hype, can't change RTE and the rest of the propaganda machine. I give up.
https://youtu.be/rz_Z7Gf1aRE
Over 1000+ cases today lads, we're all fucked!
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-who-backflips-on-virus-stance-by-condemning-lockdowns/news-story/f2188f2aebff1b7b291b297731c3da74
This is new. No comment from me either way.
Yep, I got sent to that Dr Johnny Bananas article last week too.
Looking forward to Big Donnie getting his next term and going after these tech-tards.....
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/
I just googled it, and it's on the first page. It is, however, buried underneath many articles which are disparaging towards it. Make of that what one will.
Edit: but wait, clicking the link returns "500 Internal Server Error". Tried on DuckDuckGo and it gives me an archive from the wayback machine. Maybe it's getting popular? Or something..?
Edit 2: Seems to be site maintenance or such like, it's mostly working now. I still think it's going to be a case of pissing into the wind though as there are a lot of reputations staked on the opposite assessment of the situation, so the push back should be fairly strong.
Personally I've pretty much stopped chasing this particular rabbit, and it might be time to simply sit back and eat the popcorn.
Ok, I got sick of the popcorn and also sick of the shit I'm being fed by the government....
On Wednesday 2nd Sept 2020 there were 29,114 cases and 1,777 deaths.
Today, 14th Oct 2020 there are 45,243 cases and 1,835 deaths.
Now we are supposed to go back into hiding and stay away from everyone.
Do the maths there: From the first instance I've mentioned there to the second, there has been 16,129 cases, and 58 deaths. Sound like a pandemic or second wave to anyone here with half a brain? No it fucking doesn't. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
What in the actual fuck is going on?!!
Edit: and let's not forget that some of those deaths are "with" and not "from" covid 19. You take a heart attack or get rolled over by a steamroller it doesn't matter as long as positive for C19, you died of that.
Frustrating, isn't it.
I'm going about my business as normal and phuck any cunt that gets in my way. They've stolen enough of our lives already. We've done what they asked earlier in the year and still the grinding mill of authoritarianism groans on and on and on and on....
I live in a border county and I'll visit whoever I like, have visit me whoever wants to and go where the hell i want to. Fuck any cop or politician who trys to stop me or say I can't. Fuck off!
You'd best not ask questions about Canada's "isolation camps" https://youtu.be/3yyKczzyLoU
Covid-19: a virus so deadly, you have to get tested to see if you have it.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 15, 2020, 11:45:56 AM
Covid-19: a virus so deadly, you have to get tested to see if you have it.
:-\
So, France has introduced a 9pm curfew in nine cities (not including Bordeaux, not that I've been out after nine o'clock in the last year anyway!), although no restraint on schools or workplaces, meaning that public transport and metro stations remain as packed as ever. They're not saying it out loud, but I do think the logic here is, once again, to allow the vigorous (those healthy enough to go to work, school, uni) to mix as much as possible while also reducing some of the risk of them then mixing with older people in bars, restaurants, etc., in the evening...?
You haven't been out after 9pm in a year? Hard to fathom how you managed that!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 15, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
You haven't been out after 9pm in a year? Hard to fathom how you managed that!
By having responsibility over a creature whose bedtime is before 9pm! :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 15, 2020, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 15, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
You haven't been out after 9pm in a year? Hard to fathom how you managed that!
By having responsibility over a creature whose bedtime is before 9pm! :laugh:
You did mention you have a woman, right? :laugh:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 15, 2020, 12:36:27 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 15, 2020, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 15, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
You haven't been out after 9pm in a year? Hard to fathom how you managed that!
By having responsibility over a creature whose bedtime is before 9pm! :laugh:
You did mention you have a woman, right? :laugh:
Yes, and her bedtime is eight thirty! :laugh:
Proper.... :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 15, 2020, 12:34:52 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 15, 2020, 12:30:50 PM
You haven't been out after 9pm in a year? Hard to fathom how you managed that!
By having responsibility over a creature whose bedtime is before 9pm! :laugh:
Before 9pm...I can only dream
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 15, 2020, 06:45:48 AM
I'm going about my business as normal and phuck any cunt that gets in my way. They've stolen enough of our lives already. We've done what they asked earlier in the year and still the grinding mill of authoritarianism groans on and on and on and on....
I live in a border county and I'll visit whoever I like, have visit me whoever wants to and go where the hell i want to. Fuck any cop or politician who trys to stop me or say I can't. Fuck off!
Do you unironically bounce along to Killing in the Name while the local trackkies debate whether to throw their cans of Linden Village at ya?
https://youtu.be/CPmWYFlUK54
Also Varadkar on Paddy's day: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30988383.html
Quote from: Ducky on October 15, 2020, 04:26:16 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 15, 2020, 06:45:48 AM
I'm going about my business as normal and phuck any cunt that gets in my way. They've stolen enough of our lives already. We've done what they asked earlier in the year and still the grinding mill of authoritarianism groans on and on and on and on....
I live in a border county and I'll visit whoever I like, have visit me whoever wants to and go where the hell i want to. Fuck any cop or politician who trys to stop me or say I can't. Fuck off!
Do you unironically bounce along to Killing in the Name while the local trackkies debate whether to throw their cans of Linden Village at ya?
"Oooooh, let's have a big ol' lockdown".....
"Well, that didn't work. I think we'll have another one".....
Good job government..... Dicks!
I fookin can't stand Zack de la Rocha for what it's worth Ducky.
And no, the local trackies don't bother me. They stay the fuck out of my way.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 15, 2020, 05:19:55 PM
https://youtu.be/CPmWYFlUK54
Also Varadkar on Paddy's day: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30988383.html
Oul choirboy that lad.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 15, 2020, 09:24:04 PM
Oul choirboy that lad.
The fucking Neil ferguson clone with the 100,000 deaths? Pure gimp right there. Fully ignoring the idea of analysing anything at all..
Imagine being in your 80's and watching the 2 channels most of your life and being fed that bollix. Funny thing is, most of the old folks I meet don't even believe that. They have enough years lived to have seen it all before and it's me who is the innocent cunt, yet here I am feeling sorry for them
Not my own, stolen from the oasis of calm that is the YouTube comments section. But watch...
"FYI... It's just a mask.
It's just voluntary social distancing.
It's just two weeks – to "flatten the curve."
It's just temporary.
It's just to prevent an overwhelming surge of the health care system.
We're all in this together.
It's just 'non-essential' businesses.
It's just until the surge is over.
It's just to keep others from being scared.
It's just a sign of caring.
It's just two more weeks.
It's just six feet.
It's just communion or singing.
You can still meet on videochat.
It's the new normal.
Anyone who does not comply is making things worse.
It's just until October.
It's just until more cases go down.
It's just until we get a vaccine.
It's just until the virus is no longer an issue.
It's just the deletion of a YouTube video.
It's just the deletion of a Facebook post.
It's just the deletion of a YouTube account.
It's just the deletion of a Facebook account.
It's just to protect others from misinformation.
Anybody who does not agree must be a right wing extremist or a white supremacist.
It's just a nasal swab.
It just hurts for a few seconds.
It's just for everyone's safety.
We will need for you to return for repeat testing once every week.
You ideally should wear goggles or an eye mask for "more perfect" protection.
It's recommended that you wear a mask while you are at home with family members.
It's advised that you maintain social distance while you are at home with family members.
It's just until there are less than 6 new cases per 100,000 people.
This may not end until the second half of 2021 or in 2022.
We need to ramp up the testing and tracing.
This is a testing checkpoint. You must submit to a test.
It's just an app. on your "smart" phone
It's just to let us know who you've been in contact with.
It's just to let others know you're safe to be around.
It's just a few places that don't accept cash.
It's only a temporary coin shortage.
It's just a no-cash policy.
It's a convenient card that tracks all your transactions.
It's just a ban on singing in public.
It's only facial recognition.
It's just an ankle bracelet.
It's just to let us know that you are complying with isolation.
The drones will be monitoring you for your protection to make sure you are complying with quarantine.
You should not have sex without wearing a mask.
You are not allowed to have sex with anyone who is not a member of your household.
It's just a little prick.
It's just a quantum-dot tattoo embedded into your skin.
It's delivered using "Luciferase" (technology) so we can scan you like a product.
It just uses "Hydrogel" so we can connect you to the cloud to remotely give you regular boosters (updates).
This device (Hydrogel) is a self-healing polymer-nanoparticle (PNP) hydrogel platform prolongs the co-delivery of vaccine components to the immune system.
It's for your health security.
That's just a conspiracy theory.
It's so we can keep track of your immunization status.
It's just a temporary side effect.
It's just a coincidence – it has nothing to do with the vaccine.
If you feel sick at any time or for any reason, it just means it's the virus is causing it.
If you get sick, then you just have to start again with more isolation and injections.
It looks like we will need multiple booster injections to give you the best protection.
It's just a new type of mask with a built-in temperature and virus sensors that you need to wear all day.
It's just for medical information and paying for things.
It's just an immunization passport.
It's completely voluntary, but you need it if you want to be able to participate in society.
It's just that you can't board an airplane without it.
It's just that you are not allowed to be employed without it.
It's just that you cannot go to school or university without it.
It's just that you cannot enter any stores without it.
It's just that you cannot renew your driver's license without it
It's just that you are not allowed to leave your house without it.
It's just so you can be allowed to drive on the roads.
It's just so you can be allowed to vote.
It's just so you are allowed to keep your job.
It's just so you can be allowed inside stores.
It's only a restaurant closure.
It's only one small business that has closed.
It's just a one-time stimulus check.
The economy will eventually bounce back – it will be a "V" shaped curve.
It's just a temporary job loss.
It's just a temporary unemployment check.
It's was just a temporary moratorium on evictions and foreclosures.
It's just an eviction notice.
It's just a foreclosure notice.
It's only needed in order for you to be allowed government assistance.
It's just a temporary bank closure.
It's just a bank holiday.
It's just a ban on cash.
The dollar has been devalued.
It's a brand new digital cryptocurrency designed by Microsoft.
If you care, then you should reduce your talking, or stop talking completely when in public.
It's only required if you want to leave your house.
It's voluntary but your children will need to be removed from your care.
It's mandatory.
Without it you will be fined.
If you don't have it you will be placed in a quarantine facility.
This should end no longer than one year after the entire world has been vaccinated with all four doses.
It's just until there are no more new cases.
It's just until we completely eradicate the virus.
It's unrealistic to think that we can completely eradicate this because it mutates and adapts.
We now believe that the virus will always be with us.
It's the onset of a brand new pandemic. It's called "Pandemic Two."
It's just a little chip. It's for health security.
Stop asking questions. This is the law and you are expected to follow it.
This is a lawful order. We are here to remove you and your children from your home. We will be taking you to a safe facility. Please get into the van.
Welcome to the quarantine facility. This is a locked facility for your safety.
You will need to wear a hazmat suit.
It's just a mask."
"The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it".
Here is a gift to you all...
https://youtu.be/_SxPG_3ArlQ
Have a think about it.
U ok hun?
Dat ewe mugz?
Apparently the government are preparing to impose an 8pm curfew on the sale of booze from off-licenses/supermarkets temporarily. The children aren't able to mind themselves so Big Daddy Dail has to ground us.
A few observations;
The thinking here is to stop house parties in college areas etc. I can get onboard with that. I live near UCC and some of the bullshit the students got up to, even pre-Covid19 is irksome, to say the least. But - there are those of us who can fully govern themselves (the carry on in The Fear thread notwithstanding).
This new rule will just make people buy booze earlier and possibly in greater quantities.
Watch as supermarkets go to loss-leader alcohol sales.
The VFI are painful - lobbying the government because they've had their ball taken off them - even though the same VFI actively encouraged their members in the finding and exploiting of loopholes in the governments restrictions on pubs.
Clearly no minister has been invited to a BBQ or house party in the last 10 to 15 years. Those shindigs start at 1500hrs.
Braindead shit, if that's what's happening. All that's going to accomplish is crowds of panic-buying, as you've said.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on October 16, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Braindead shit, if that's what's happening. All that's going to accomplish is crowds of panic-buying, as you've said.
So long as there are dopes about, they're going to flaunt the regulations, whatever they are. As you say, the curfew will only send people into the shops quicker for the booze.
Quote from: Nail_Bombed on October 16, 2020, 12:16:53 PM
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on October 16, 2020, 12:06:44 PM
Braindead shit, if that's what's happening. All that's going to accomplish is crowds of panic-buying, as you've said.
So long as there are dopes about, they're going to flaunt the regulations, whatever they are. As you say, the curfew will only send people into the shops quicker for the booze.
Sunday mornings still get me. Down the shop around 12 and it's fucking half 12 before u can buy a beer. Cunts.
That will end up the same as when the offies moved to 10pm closing. Everybody just made sure to have enough bought by 10 instead of 11.30 and it seemed to me to encourage people to simply buy greater quantities. Silly idea.
Unusual to find an ally in the Daily Mail. Also unusual to find them not blaming foreigners, but sure hey, any port in a storm..
A fact check going the other way for once. Ireland seems to be in a very similar situation from having a look at the data. There are actually more ICU beds free this week than last here, despite the massive increase in positive cases and shit stirring
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845533/Coronavirus-Soaring-infections-death-rates-claims-justify-lockdowns.html
so feckin tired of it at this stage. Arent we all.
Whatever ye think about lockdown or not, this 5 Level framework is retarded. They nearly need to introduce decimal points at this stage. What is Level 3 Plus or Level 3 Plus Plus, which is the situation currently. And even the criteria within levels are changing too.
(https://theliberal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/page1.jpg)
This was on page 5 of The Irish Times 3 days ago.
Quote from: Giggles on October 18, 2020, 12:02:17 PM
(https://theliberal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/page1.jpg)
This was on page 5 of The Irish Times 3 days ago.
If you want a good laugh, look at The Journal's "fact-check" on the ad where the headline says the claims are false, but the actual article says it is correct. They then proceeded to turn off the comments for the article. When a twitter user decided to call out their fact-check and say it was "weird", an editor at The Journal tagged the fella's employer in an attempt to blacken him. Amazing what can be bought for 30 pieces of silver. The full-page HSE ads in every paper will also have most of them feeling extremely reluctant to run anything against the current narrative.
There is a video on Gript.ie explaining about the behaviour of the editor in question. It's also interesting to note, the more one digs into it, that all of the proponents of the current lockdown method of dealing with this and all of those who make the crazy wild projections about the severity of it (flying in the face of the thus-far accumulated evidence) can be tied to having a financial interest in continuing with the situation as it is. NPHET should be disbanded and remoulded with a less myopic set of expert opinions, and with some folks who won't ignore the evidence as it becomes available and evolve their opinions along with it.
For another perspective, which focuses on the UK but can be equally applied to Ireland, have a read of this article by Mike Yeadon, ex "Vice President & Chief Scientist for Allergy & Respiratory" for Pfizer, who explains what the advisors have gotten wrong with their response. https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
Also, that ad makes me think of Rafa Benitez every time I read it.
Quote from: astfgyl
If you want a good laugh, look at The Journal's "fact-check" on the ad where the headline says the claims are false, but the actual article says it is correct. They then proceeded to turn off the comments for the article. When a twitter user decided to call out their fact-check and say it was "weird", an editor at The Journal tagged the fella's employer in an attempt to blacken him. Amazing what can be bought for 30 pieces of silver. The full-page HSE ads in every paper will also have most of them feeling extremely reluctant to run anything against the current narrative.
I read it. They latched onto the wording of one "claim" while deciding to ignore the rest of the facts.
I did not giggle.
Quote from: Giggles on October 18, 2020, 12:53:04 PM
Quote from: astfgyl
If you want a good laugh, look at The Journal's "fact-check" on the ad where the headline says the claims are false, but the actual article says it is correct. They then proceeded to turn off the comments for the article. When a twitter user decided to call out their fact-check and say it was "weird", an editor at The Journal tagged the fella's employer in an attempt to blacken him. Amazing what can be bought for 30 pieces of silver. The full-page HSE ads in every paper will also have most of them feeling extremely reluctant to run anything against the current narrative.
I read it. They latched onto the wording of one "claim" while deciding to ignore the rest of the facts.
I did not giggle.
It was fucking shambolic and should be a lesson to anyone who wants to know about the integrity of The Journal's reporting. That, along with RTE's "facts have no agenda" shite are really sickening.
Quote from: Giggles on October 18, 2020, 12:02:17 PM
(https://theliberal.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/page1.jpg)
This was on page 5 of The Irish Times 3 days ago.
Fact 2. Nice insidious way to say if you're over the life expectancy age sure look, you should be dead.
Fact 3. No fucking shit Sherlock. From Day 1 it's been widely reported Covid is a huge problem for people with underlying health conditions.
The Great Barrington Declaration in no way advocates for leaving the aged and infirm for dead. That is a common misconception put forward by proponents of full lockdowns. The point of the facts is to point out that the thing is no worse than the seasonal flu, which we don't all lose our shit over and which in an amazing coincidence has disappeared suddenly.
The WHO indicates that the rate of mortality for COVID vs. the seasonal flu is about least 30 to 40 times greater.
But keep tooting whatever suits your dumb-fuck conspiracy theorist ideas.
And yeah, to go back to your other comment where I said I hope you catch it, you made shit personal when you said I should be better off going to play videogames or whatever because somehow you digging into the reams of bullshit online and taking magic mushrooms makes you more learned on the topic. You're also a condescending wanker about how we're having the wool pulled over our eyes. It's a slightly more articulate version of saying "sheeple".
Lol you're a right fucking clown. I will continue to feel sorry for you.
Also, John P A Ioannidis has had an article published on the WHO website regarding the infection fatality rate here: https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf which puts the IFR at around 0.2% across all age groups. Some realms of bullshit to be digging into.
Now back under your rock you soft hysterical cunt. Or come out from under the rock, and show me the evidence you have which says it is "at least 30 to 40 times higher". And if you wish to have a discussion about the situation on the online discussion board here, drop the embarrassing line of insults you are taking and we will discuss...
Quote from: Ducky on October 18, 2020, 05:57:13 PM
And yeah, to go back to your other comment where I said I hope you catch it, you made shit personal when you said I should be better off going to play videogames or whatever
Maybe you should have
actually went back to his other comment, and you would have remembered that it was in fact
yourself who began with the personal shit by calling him an unenlightened patronising fuck.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 04, 2020, 10:02:03 PM
Quote from: Ducky on October 04, 2020, 09:55:04 PM
Your last few posts on the subject have made you sound like a patronising fuck TBH. You're not some enlightened fellow who sees between the lines. Rates of infection are on the rise, so yeah, it's just you that thinks it's silly.
When did you start speaking for everyone else? You must have no life to be missing. Back to your playstation with you.
Scarleh!
And where the fuck are you getting this WHO's "indication" that covid is 30 to 40 times more deadly than the flu?
From the WHO website, this what the WHO has said about influenza ifr, page 2 second last paragraph: (https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200306-sitrep-46-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=96b04adf_4)
QuoteFor seasonal influenza, mortality is usually well below 0.1%
Also from the WHO website, the covid ifr, first page: (https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf)
QuoteThe inferred infection fatality rates (.23%) tended to be much lower than estimates made earlier in the pandemic
Show me the maths where .23% is "30 to 40 times greater" than .1%
That Ducky lad has to be a WUM.
No one, and I mean no one, could be that thick. :laugh:
Ducky isn't a thick lad.
But he is quite clearly terrified of the virus, swallowing down spoonfuls of fear being fed to him by the media, and is an example of how constant scaremongering can make terrified people believe whatever the fuck they are being told, without questioning.
Any doctors in the house?
https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/blog/letter-from-concerned-doctors-and-scientists-to-the-irish-government
Quote from: astfgyl on October 18, 2020, 07:32:18 PM
John P A Ioannidis has had an article published on the WHO website regarding the infection fatality rate here: https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf
Thanks for the share astfgyl. Definitely a document worth getting out there.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 19, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
Any doctors in the house?
https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/blog/letter-from-concerned-doctors-and-scientists-to-the-irish-government
Is this legit? Could be a gamechanger.
Quotecurrent test method for SARS CoV(2), i.e. PCR swabs, can yield results with questionable accuracy. These tests were never intended to be used in this setting, and are unreliable: 1-3 % false-positive rate, i.e. in a real-world scenario of low prevalence, this false positive rate would mean that more than 50% of the "positives" could be false. Added to this problem is the detection of old and irrelevant viral fragments, and infections so slight that they have no clinical significance. The truth is that only a fraction of daily reported 'cases' are clinically significant in terms of transmissibility or impact.
I honestly don't know if any of it will be a game changer. There have been so many false dawns over the last few months.
I'm pinning my hopes on something like this https://scitechdaily.com/new-blood-test-accurately-predicts-which-covid-19-patients-will-develop-severe-infection/
or rapid testing, allowing the implementation of the Focused Protection idea to become reality. Never know though, maybe it will make a bit of difference, but the government are in a position now which is extremely difficult to row back on.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 19, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
Any doctors in the house?
https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/blog/letter-from-concerned-doctors-and-scientists-to-the-irish-government
That link has been removed from the site :-X
Quote from: Giggles on October 19, 2020, 07:04:07 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 19, 2020, 03:30:35 PM
Any doctors in the house?
https://covid19ireland.squarespace.com/blog/letter-from-concerned-doctors-and-scientists-to-the-irish-government
That link has been removed from the site :-X
Wow. Well it has been covered in the Irish Times today so it might be difficult to disappear. Maybe it was moved or something. There is no way it violates any sort of misinformation rules anyway, given the content.
Level 5 from Wednesday night. Y'all better be good boys and girls and obey the rules or else we're gonna have to cancel xmas :abbath:
Still no mention of fines or enforcement.
Jokefest. I work in an office and - because am in financial services - am classed as essential. Therefore my idiot boss will not allow us to work from home.
Quote from: Giggles on October 19, 2020, 09:23:40 PM
Level 5 from Wednesday night. Y'all better be good boys and girls and obey the rules or else we're gonna have to cancel xmas :abbath:
As one might imagine, I will be liable for many fines under the new system. Or I will simply have the brains to find the loopholes and work with that to avoid the non existent fines.
Not to yourself in particular, but does anyone feel this might be somewhat unconstitutional? We are not prisoners.
For the last 7 months I have given out shite about all of this but also obeyed and abided the advice around reducing contacts etc and followed the usual sick season advice of washing my hands and using cough etiquette. NPHET and the Government and anyone who cannot take responsibility for their own actions without looking for a mandate to do so can go fuck themselves. Those who wish for more restrictions should just do it to themselves and leave the rest of us go on with it. Save christmas me hole. So in the absence of a single demographic to blame this time around it is simply everyone's fault, is that it? Sad cunts everyone who allows themselves to be dictated to in this fashion. Make your own mind up instead of begging for it to be done for you. Social bubbles? Some load of shite.
Your government are punishing you for their years of incompetence to run a health service. Sad sad bastards, indoctrinated by fear when the evidence of bollix is staring us all in the face. The proper solution would be for the people to bring the country to a standstill in protest at the third world health service we have while taking our own measures to mitigate but no, we are sad cunts instead and meekly accept that the same incompetent shites that have ran us into the ground forever now suddenly know what is best for us. I wonder how many of the ministers and civil servants who are making these decisions will have to live on the cunting coin they are forcing on everyone else.. yeah none of them.
Fuck. This.
And fuck you as well if you think it's grand or necessary.
Quote from: Martin"We're delaying the virus and suppressing it", he said. "If we can really concentrate over the next six weeks then we can have December ... and if we really behave ourselves then we can look forward to a reopening."
I don't like Varadkar, but at least he was able to deliver a speech. This utterly condescending shit from that bollocks can go fuck off
It's like an abusive partner blaming the victim for the punishment they have to dole (pun intended) out to them.
As a fella who has had a rough dose of it, and from what I gather either you or your missus works in the health service, do you think this response is justified given what has been learned in the last 7 months and what hasn't been done to the health service in the last 7 months? Have you not behaved personally? Almost everyone I know has behaved in exactly the fashion they were told to and yet here we are, counting the beds day by day and being told we should be blaming ourselves for the situation. "If we really behave ourselves..." Oh fuck. If I was working in the health service I think I would have every right to be fucking livid this minute. How many pay rises were given to nursing and hospital staff while the government fought in the Dail for raises to junior ministers to the tune of 16 grand a year? It has gone beyond a joke but yet the sick cunts are telling us to behave.
No lads, don't take another day of it. Wash your hands, reduce your contacts, don't go to the old people when you are sick. But remember that beds are halved since 2008 when we all paid a fucking debt that was not our fault while the banks got away with murder and now the money is being wasted on pointless testing and tracing when the actual metric is the overrunning of a cunt of a national health service. And all the while the same fried bastards have been in charge of our collective ruin and haven't lost a cent.
Everyone is quoting 1984 these days but it is way more like Animal Farm. Both versions actually, because it is both an allegory of the russian revolution and analogous to the blue movie version where some people get bummed by horses and pigs.
This country is fucked
Quote from: astfgyl on October 19, 2020, 10:59:31 PM
It's like an abusive partner blaming the victim for the punishment they have to dole (pun intended) out to them.
As a fella who has had a rough dose of it, and from what I gather either you or your missus works in the health service, do you think this response is justified given what has been learned in the last 7 months and what hasn't been done to the health service in the last 7 months? Have you not behaved personally? Almost everyone I know has behaved in exactly the fashion they were told to and yet here we are, counting the beds day by day and being told we should be blaming ourselves for the situation. "If we really behave ourselves..." Oh fuck. If I was working in the health service I think I would have every right to be fucking livid this minute. How many pay rises were given to nursing and hospital staff while the government fought in the Dail for raises to junior ministers to the tune of 16 grand a year? It has gone beyond a joke but yet the sick cunts are telling us to behave.
I don't honestly know if it's the right thing or not, but when there seems to a steady stream of scientists questioning the veracity of lockdowns it does seem there should at the very least be more of a discussion around it.
Either way, the health system is still fucked and treated with utter contempt by the government so I can't see anything changing anytime soon.
We could have learnt lessons from Korea and others who focused on the K more so than the R-O rate as a mean to control the spread.
Warning against herd immunity approach ->
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext
Also why I'd be against it ->
1 in 8 of our population are over 65. Ireland 3rd highest rate of cancer in the world. Almost 226,000 people living with diabetes in Ireland.
500,000 people are estimated to have Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD). Irish men highest body mass index in Europe, Irish women ranking 3rd, 1 in 4 children in Ireland now classified as overweight or obese. Ireland 1 of the highest rates of high blood pressure internationally - among the lowest levels of diagnosis, treatment & control of the condition. Dr Paul Kavanagh, who is an adviser to the HSE's Quit programme, said more than 1 in 5 people aged 15 or over in Ireland are smokers. Respiratory disease causes almost one in 5 deaths in Ireland.
We know morality figures from covid are those with elderly or people with cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, respiratory disease, cancer etc.
Quote from: The Butcher on October 20, 2020, 11:48:27 AM
Warning against herd immunity approach ->
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext
"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."
This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?
Quote from: astfgyl on October 19, 2020, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: Giggles on October 19, 2020, 09:23:40 PM
Level 5 from Wednesday night. Y'all better be good boys and girls and obey the rules or else we're gonna have to cancel xmas :abbath:
Your government are punishing you for their years of incompetence to run a health service. Sad sad bastards, indoctrinated by fear when the evidence of bollix is staring us all in the face.
But it if was all bollix why would they be worried about their incompetence to run a health service?
Quote from: Giggles on October 20, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: The Butcher on October 20, 2020, 11:48:27 AM
Warning against herd immunity approach ->
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext
"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."
This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?
I suppose their hope is that by the time late January comes a vaccine will be ready to be rolled out to the most vulnerable. The rest of us will have to wait.
Quote from: Giggles on October 20, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: The Butcher on October 20, 2020, 11:48:27 AM
Warning against herd immunity approach ->
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext
"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."
This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?
Because our test and trace is bullshit.
Quote from: Cailleach on October 20, 2020, 01:08:51 PM
Quote from: Giggles on October 20, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: The Butcher on October 20, 2020, 11:48:27 AM
Warning against herd immunity approach ->
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext
"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."
This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?
I suppose their hope is that by the time late January comes a vaccine will be ready to be rolled out to the most vulnerable. The rest of us will have to wait.
Look at how long it takes to manufacture a vaccine : https://www.vaccineseurope.eu/about-vaccines/how-are-vaccines-produced/
QuoteOn average, it takes between 12-36 months* to manufacture a vaccine before it is ready for distribution.
As far as I'm aware, there is no reliable vaccine available yet?
I know somebody who works in the manufacturing of vaccines who confirmed that even if one was designed today, it would take over 200 days (can't remember the exact figure, 263 maybe?) to manufacture a batch of vaccines ready for distribution. Not sure if that timeframe is strictly limited to her own company's abilities, but she seems fairly certain that we're not gonna get spiked anytime soon.
Quote from: Giggles on October 20, 2020, 02:00:56 PM
Quote from: Cailleach on October 20, 2020, 01:08:51 PM
Quote from: Giggles on October 20, 2020, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: The Butcher on October 20, 2020, 11:48:27 AM
Warning against herd immunity approach ->
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext
"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."
This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?
I suppose their hope is that by the time late January comes a vaccine will be ready to be rolled out to the most vulnerable. The rest of us will have to wait.
Look at how long it takes to manufacture a vaccine : https://www.vaccineseurope.eu/about-vaccines/how-are-vaccines-produced/
QuoteOn average, it takes between 12-36 months* to manufacture a vaccine before it is ready for distribution.
As far as I'm aware, there is no reliable vaccine available yet?
I know somebody who works in the manufacturing of vaccines who confirmed that even if one was designed today, it would take over 200 days (can't remember the exact figure, 263 maybe?) to manufacture a batch of vaccines ready for distribution. Not sure if that timeframe is strictly limited to her own company's abilities, but she seems fairly certain that we're not gonna get spiked anytime soon.
My brother's wife who works in the same area said something similar. I read a report that says some vaccines are ready to be rolled out early next year, but that is likely propaganda by countries who are desperate to be able to say they are the first to roll out a vaccine. Boris Johnson would love to be able boast about His Oxford scientist being world beaters, just further proof of British exceptionalism .
Quote from: pete on October 20, 2020, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 19, 2020, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: Giggles on October 19, 2020, 09:23:40 PM
Level 5 from Wednesday night. Y'all better be good boys and girls and obey the rules or else we're gonna have to cancel xmas :abbath:
Your government are punishing you for their years of incompetence to run a health service. Sad sad bastards, indoctrinated by fear when the evidence of bollix is staring us all in the face.
But it if was all bollix why would they be worried about their incompetence to run a health service?
The bollix part is that we all have to suffer for the actions of our elected representatives, who have done precisely fuck all in the last 7 months to improve anything. So they push the fear way harder than it needs to be pushed, as evidenced by research from all over the world which is constantly pushing the ifr down. Coupled with what has been learned about how to treat the illness, they should be in a better position now to deal with it, should have used the summer months to do something more than sit on their hands and give themselves pay rises. I think the focus on track and trace is not the right idea. Test sick people and most of this goes away, simple as that. Prior to March 2020, healthy people were healthy and didn't need quarantining. Set up a system to pay anyone who is sick to stay at home, let everyone else have at it. People can surely decide their own level of risk, and of course there would be some bit of bollixing around lads playing sick, but it wouldn't be anything like this hammer blow to the economy. Use rapid testing for healthcare staff, and visitors to high risk settings. If somebody is high risk, a doctor's cert should suffice to see them impose their own personal level 5 if they so wish. Don't call anyone who doesn't have symptoms of covid-19 a case, and the cases fall away. No more broken leg patients being covid cases.
The bollix is that none of this is considered in the approach, not the fact that some people get sick. So contact trace away, warn them to stay home for a week to see if symptoms develop, but don't test them all unless they have symptoms. It would of course this way mean some people will catch it, but 99.8% of them will live, and with the focused protection, one could reasonably expect that ifr to fall further. There is a different idea, one which doesn't destroy either lives or livelihoods and keeps the country going, keeps people sane and healthy, able to enjoy life instead of being haunted by the spectre of covid, as being locked in their homes sanitising the shit out of everything is a sure fire way to fuck one's immune system anyway and open up the health service to many more admissions. Stress is also strongly associated with poor health outcomes, but that also seems to be disregarded. The list goes on and on. Opening the pubs for example would have been smarter than driving everyone into houses together, but wasn't bothered with. The pig-headed, not-for-turning approach of the government and NPHET at the moment is good for no one.
Also, and this is not directed to you in particular Pete, What happens if there is never a vaccine? Don't just say "but there will be one", tell me what you think happens if it doesn't come for say 10 years? Remember there is no vaccine for any of the other coronavirus variants. Serious question for all of the wait for the vaccine proponents, what if it doesn't come?
That is the main reason why I think another approach must be taken, we are putting all our eggs in the one basket otherwise and that is never a good idea, especially as any vaccine that comes now goes against all previous safety and development standards in the rush to save us all. Not a good idea.
Pubs in this country are officially being sent down the swanee. Oh, and there's the nice kind issue of fines to look forward to.....
Who wouldn't want to give a few politicians a good flogging outside the Dáil, huh?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 20, 2020, 03:44:08 PM
Pubs in this country are officially being sent down the swanee. Oh, and there's the nice kind issue of fines to look forward to.....
Who wouldn't want to give a few politicians a good flogging outside the Dáil, huh?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html
"We need everbody to buy into this in its' totality". For right or wrong, presumably. Trust the government, they never get anything wrong. Fucking fines.
I floated the idea of floggings a while back in jest, but it is gaining traction.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 20, 2020, 03:18:49 PM
The bollix part is that we all have to suffer for the actions of our elected representatives, who have done precisely fuck all in the last 7 months to improve anything. So they push the fear way harder than it needs to be pushed, as evidenced by research from all over the world which is constantly pushing the ifr down. Coupled with what has been learned about how to treat the illness, they should be in a better position now to deal with it, should have used the summer months to do something more than sit on their hands and give themselves pay rises. I think the focus on track and trace is not the right idea. Test sick people and most of this goes away, simple as that. Prior to March 2020, healthy people were healthy and didn't need quarantining. Set up a system to pay anyone who is sick to stay at home, let everyone else have at it. People can surely decide their own level of risk, and of course there would be some bit of bollixing around lads playing sick, but it wouldn't be anything like this hammer blow to the economy. Use rapid testing for healthcare staff, and visitors to high risk settings. If somebody is high risk, a doctor's cert should suffice to see them impose their own personal level 5 if they so wish. Don't call anyone who doesn't have symptoms of covid-19 a case, and the cases fall away. No more broken leg patients being covid cases.
So you do agree anyway that we need this current lockdown for the next few weeks as we don't have another way of dealing with it currently?
Quote from: astfgyl on October 20, 2020, 03:18:49 PM
Also, and this is not directed to you in particular Pete, What happens if there is never a vaccine? Don't just say "but there will be one", tell me what you think happens if it doesn't come for say 10 years? Remember there is no vaccine for any of the other coronavirus variants. Serious question for all of the wait for the vaccine proponents, what if it doesn't come?
I dunno. All the things I like are shut so I'm not sure I could consider there not being one haha. What I'd give to be standing in the Voodoo Lounge with a shit pint listening to a shit support band setup.
I suppose the current "plan" is based on a vaccine happening over the next couple of years, the odds being high there will be one? If science came out tomorrow and said nope, we've concluded it impossible then I'd imagine a different plan would be looked into?
https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-089086/en/
Good bit of reading here from the WHO. History never repeats itself, right?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 20, 2020, 03:44:08 PM
Pubs in this country are officially being sent down the swanee. Oh, and there's the nice kind issue of fines to look forward to.....
Who wouldn't want to give a few politicians a good flogging outside the Dáil, huh?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html
Meanwhile:
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ex-tds-asked-to-stay-away-from-dail-during-lockdown-39646548.html
Lol, delighted for them. No bar for them this time either.
In other news, has anyone else seen Varadkar's decidedly weird press conference, where he seems to be saying that he doesn't think the lockdown is worth the other shit it will cause but they are going ahead with it anyway? "People afraid to go to hospital because they are told they are overwhelmed, but they're not"......"might see other countries who didn't lock down have the same result".....???
Surely politics being played, but what does he think is coming down the line? Is he saying without saying that he is against it? Throwing NPHET under a bus of sorts?
HPSC has issued some guidance around the CT value and PCR testing along with presentation of clinical symptoms which seems very sensible and should see a dramatic fall in cases if implemented. What are the bets it gets implemented some time during the new lockdown? Result: Lockdowns work great!!
Here it is: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/guidance/outbreakmanagementguidance/PCR%20weak%20results%20guidance.pdf
The reason I don't think it has been implemented thus far is that my kids' teacher tested positive but asymptomatic and no symptoms in the almost 2 weeks since, yet doesn't appear to have been retested. Must get the full story out of her, but far as I know it was through the app she was notified as a contact. Kids got swabbed and I got swabbed myself as a result. It wasn't great fun. Also despite the entire class testing negative, they all still have to stay out until 2 weeks are up and all parents had to stay out of work until kids tested negative. All did test negative. Strangely enough as well, when the principal rang she said she had been informed by the HSE that as the teacher had no symptoms it was
extremely unlikely that she would have passed it on to any of the kids. Then the half arsed swabbing that the two young lads got vs the nasal and pharyngeal rape myself and the wife were subjected to gave me the distinct impression that they might not want the young children to come up positive.
Here is the important part for those who don't want to read the rest of it:
QuoteAppendix 1
Notes on the Utility & limitations of PCR
1. PCR as a diagnostic methodology is exquisitely sensitive, capable under conditions of
optimal sample quality of detecting fewer than 10 copies of viral RNA in a clinical sample
2. PCR does not distinguish between viable virus and non-infectious RNA
3. In individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2, PCR can often detect viral RNA for many days
and weeks after the resolution of the clinical syndrome
4. PCR-based assays can yield non-specific (or 'false positive') results near the limit of
detection of the assay: this does not mean that the test is bad
5. A very good PCR assay with a specificity of 99.5% can still generate 5 'RNA detected'
results in a cohort of 1000 individuals without the infection
6. Although there may be variation between platforms and amplification efficiency in
general standard PCR assays run for 40 cycles: under optimal conditions the amount of
genetic material present doubles with each cycle, and increases by a factor of 10 every
3.3 cycles
7. PCR results can be reported as cycle threshold (Ct) values: in general terms the lower
the Ct value, the more viral RNA that is present in the clinical specimen. Note: The
same sample tested on different assays/platforms can give different Ct values reflecting
differences in the targets detected and the chemistry of the test used. When considering
trends in Ct values it is preferable to test samples with the same assay/platform each
time.
8. In the diagnostic setting, a Ct value of 30 in a very efficient PCR assay represents a viral
load of around 1000 (3 log) copies: a Ct value > 34 represents a viral load of fewer than
100 copies; a Ct value of >37 represents a viral load of fewer than 10 copies
9. There are very few reports of viable SARS-CoV-2 virus being retrieved in culture from
clinical specimens with a Ct value of >34
Lastly, Dr Cillian De Gascun, Chair of the Covid-19 Expert Advisory Group at NPHET says:
https://twitter.com/CillianDeGascun/status/1305251821829656585
Well there we have it.
Fair play to ye lads. The general discussion forum has been an interesting place these last few months. I would tend to lean toward the Astfgyl point of view and have done for a fair while now.
I tend to keep a reasonable eye on worldwide trends, numbers, and its very easy to get lost in the whole thing. What numbers are accurate? Cases? Deaths? Which country?
There's question marks over everything. I guess the most honest metric out there is a combination of deaths and numbers in ICU. And in Ireland at least, its not the worst plague of all time we are dealing with here when you look at that.
But tough to get perspective on for sure.
There are more than a few folks who are starting to call bullshit on the current run of things. People are inclined to believe what they see, even when it doesn't match up to what they are being told and that is heartening. For example, if I was to suddenly notice people getting sick everywhere or some sort of weird spike in deaths such as we had in April here, I would be able to change my opinion accordingly. So far not so, but I keep an open mind.
Watching this interview with Scott Atlas at the minute which seems to be a rare beacon of common sense but which I feel will be disregarded due to his Trump connections. Here it is, and don't knock it til ye try it. https://unherd.com/thepost/scott-atlas-im-disgusted-and-dismayed/ I find myself fully agreeing with him but I can see how through fear and indoctrination that many here won't agree.
Also bear in mind that I was one of the lockdown proponents at the beginning and my kids keep reminding me of how I banned them from seeing their friends well before any of that shite became official. I feel bad for it now but at the time I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing, due to my own fear. Everyone can make mistakes and if I turn out to be wrong this time I will readily admit it again.
I am someone who has worked all the way through and meet and have met literally hundreds of people a day, before the perspex and floor signs, before the masks and gloves and I had the shit frightened out of me for hourly pay but the penny started to drop when the reality didn't match up to the fear I was being fed with. To date, the only person I know had it was asymptomatic and also Trev on here didn't have a great time with it. I also remember Hellfire posting of his father being hospitalised with it. That is not in any way me trying to minimise the effect it had on anyone I've mentioned and I genuinely feel bad for those who have been diagnosed and had to deal with the fear involved.
I shitted bricks about the whole thing very early on and it took a good long while for the penny to drop. It has been blown out of all proportion. My old man died of viral pneumonia, but as he had a pretty fucking severe underlying condition it was accepted as something that happens. My grandmother also had viral pneumonia or influenza causing pneumonia (which I guess is viral pneumonia) but she was 90 and so it was accepted as part of the cycle of life. No sick cunt of a doctor made a video on youtube describing in detail the mechanical horrors of how either of them died to indoctrinate us all with the awful fear of it happening to someone we know and nobody was contact traced to see who killed either of them, but if it was viral in nature, It had to come from somewhere and in the current situation the media would be finding the latest scapegoat to make me feel like they were both hard done by but it simply isn't like that in reality.
Covid is not what it is made out to be and more and more evidence is coming out every day to support this and yet we persist with the overreaction. It is not right. I think it is no coincidence that some smart cunt coined the term "The new normal" right at the beginning when no one had a clue how it would be in 6 months time and it was already being sold as permanent. What the fuck, marketing kicking in at the very beginning? That doesn't sound very compassionate to me and I think we are living through one of the greatest media driven con jobs of all time. That doesn't exclude Covid-19 from being real, just saying that it has been and still is frighteningly overblown. What a clusterfuck. We will soon see what the punchline is to all of this and we will figure out why speaking out against it is the new heresy, but my fear is that by then it will be too late to stop whatever was the real point of the exercise and we will indeed be all living the horror that is Our New Normal or The Great Reset or Build Back Better or whatever the fuck three word mass hypnotic phrase is on it next week.
That is my own perspective on it so far anyway.
I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.
Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.
It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.
You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.
I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.
Those RTÉ fucks sure know how to put the boot in... :laugh:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1021/1172863-robots-taking-jobs/
The Great Reset. Coming to a town near you.... :abbath:
RTE has never had any tact and that's going back 30-40 years. They'll always run with these retarded stories just at the wrong moment.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 21, 2020, 01:55:04 AM
I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.
Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.
It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.
You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.
I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.
I 99.99% agree with all of that. The other 0.01% is having a can with his lunch because he's working from home so fuck it 8) :abbath:
Enjoy that beer Chris... 8)
Right, so we're flogging politicians and journalists now, yeah?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 21, 2020, 11:32:22 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on October 21, 2020, 01:55:04 AM
I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.
Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.
It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.
You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.
I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.
I 99.99% agree with all of that. The other 0.01% is having a can with his lunch because he's working from home so fuck it 8) :abbath:
I'm totally on board with the 0.01%, fuck it I've bever felt so well rested :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: it shouldn't be the reason we give into the new normal would be my point I suppose.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 21, 2020, 12:34:09 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 21, 2020, 11:32:22 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on October 21, 2020, 01:55:04 AM
I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.
Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.
It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.
You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.
I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.
I 99.99% agree with all of that. The other 0.01% is having a can with his lunch because he's working from home so fuck it 8) :abbath:
I'm totally on board with the 0.01%, fuck it I've bever felt so well rested :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: it shouldn't be the reason we give into the new normal would be my point I suppose.
Well said, Pedrito. You have a habit of articulating the point better than I do a lot of the time. I got a few days off work while being tested and I had no complaints at the time. It's not a future I would look forward to though for exactly the points you've made.
Anyone watch the Scott Atlas interview with Freddie Sayers yet? Really good stuff from the both of them. Sayers is a decent interviewer and Atlas is highly impressive. Probably the best I've heard speak on the whole thing. Devoid of drama, amd refuses to put the boot into Fauci when given the chance. A thoroughly rational guy. link again: https://unherd.com/thepost/scott-atlas-im-disgusted-and-dismayed/ The title of the thing is misleading as he makes his point a lot better than that would suggest.
♥️Big Donnie♥️
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10221168752119913&id=1578426990&sfnsn=scwshwa
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 21, 2020, 07:14:28 PM
♥️Big Donnie♥️
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10221168752119913&id=1578426990&sfnsn=scwshwa
😆
I love that man.
Jesus I love him too. God bless his cotton socks :laugh:
Are we having a sort of coming-out party? I might be in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb_QFImg9yI
Quote from: Abandon All Hope on October 21, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb_QFImg9yI
That was supposed to be a private conversation between myself and my wife..
Well there's someone who's mad as hell and isn't going to take it anymore if ever I saw one!
I wonder how he is getting on up there this morning
Absolutely agree with everything he says. Passionate to the core.
Pity about the swearing though...
I think he is not alone this morning. Well he might be marching up the road by himself but plenty of people feeling that frustration about.
Poor auld CNN. Tucker Carlson vs Don Lemon is like The Thing vs a vegan lesbian. Yet they persist with him and that other empty head Cuomo.
Trump. Ah Jaysus he's brilliant ;)
I remember in 2016 it was my morbid curiosity that wanted to get Trump voted in.
By Jaysus we haven't been disappointed... :laugh:
Having a read through the list of what can stay open for level 5, and it appears to me that everything is open except for anything people enjoy.
Pubs, restaurants, gyms, bookshops, barbers, record stores, swimming pools, libraries, toy shops, snooker halls, most sports all closed. Strict 5km limit with as many holes in it as Rab C. Nesbitt's vest. Allowed to travel over 5k for shopping, for example. So howya Garda, I'm just heading 35km because the hardware shop there has what I need... I'm not even talking about me being the one doing it but surely that will be what the Gardai hear all day long as they ask people what they are at.
How exactly is this to work? Also if I'm from the north, I can come over the border and go where I like. Or fly from anywhere I like and have the freedom of the country. Feels a lot like we have gotten nowhere in the last few months. The only thing I can see is that it gives contact tracing a chance to catch up. Personally I would get rid of contact tracing altogether. My own kids were contact traced 12 days after they were identified as contacts and 7 days after they had gotten their test results so that's a pointless thing to be doing.
I did post the HPSC document back a bit there which should calm things down a lot, so I live in hope while I watch the madness continue for now.
Edit: Meanwhile, in Sweden: Specific recommendations for persons 70-years old and above have now been removed. Elderly people and people at higher risk now follow the same recommendations as others. Reasons given for this are
(i) isolation also causes health problems.
(ii) in regions with minor spread and no pressure on health care it makes no sense to have specific recommendations for elderly persons and persons at risk.
I'm so fucking jealous
I think the anti lockdown sentiment here in the country will increase once people realize Christmas is gone. I can't see them lifting this Level 5 on December 1st and if they do the best you can hope for by Christmas is Level 3. It's going to piss a lot of people off if they can't get out for a drink or visit relatives over Christmas. Here were I am now the guards are making people get out of the cars at the checkpoints and are searching them which is not going down well.
Positive cases in Sweden are following the same significant sweep up trend for the last month (i.e. a little less time than Ireland), so we'll start to see soon if that translates into anything in terms of increased hospitalizations and mortality, since supposedly there's about a 2 to 3-week delay between infection and things getting serious. Unlike Ireland, though, they weren't sweeping up from zero, yet through the summer months, despite a couple hundred positive cases per day, their mortality rate never went significantly above Ireland's, not in any measurable sense anyway.
Surely Sweden is a pretty damn good argument for saying that there's nothing wrong with using PCR tests as a means for monitoring viral spread; what matters is what significance you give to the information it provides you with.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 22, 2020, 05:53:40 PM
Surely Sweden is a pretty damn good argument for saying that there's nothing wrong with using PCR tests as a means for monitoring viral spread; what matters is what significance you give to the information it provides you with.
I fully agree with this. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with PCR in itself, and the idea that there is was something I was getting caught up with myself. It is truly the application of the results and treating a positive result as a case in itself without further analysis of the individual situation that is the problem. In fact it could well be argued that PCR will be the tool which shows that the virus is not as deadly as first feared. The HPSC document was confirmation that I wasn't alone in thinking this way and bit by bit, quietly as possible, that seems to be creeping into policy.
Listening to the story about the nursing home with all the positive residents today and to my ears it sounds like the best argument possible for reallocation of resources along the lines of the maligned Focused Protection, rather than pumping all efforts into track and trace. Aggressively keeping it out of those settings is surely the best way we could go about protecting the lives of the vulnerable. Rapid testing can't come soon enough.
https://youtu.be/90flUTYfPMk
"Are you going to send the guards after a priest if they hold a mass" 😂😂
I got a giggle out of that alright.
Grafton Street today. And people want this...?
https://www.facebook.com/100001835317299/posts/4605691946168604/
Quote from: mickO))) on October 22, 2020, 05:46:19 PM
I think the anti lockdown sentiment here in the country will increase once people realize Christmas is gone. I can't see them lifting this Level 5 on December 1st and if they do the best you can hope for by Christmas is Level 3. It's going to piss a lot of people off if they can't get out for a drink or visit relatives over Christmas. Here were I am now the guards are making people get out of the cars at the checkpoints and are searching them which is not going down well.
Where was that and searching under what pretences?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 07:20:52 PM
Grafton Street today. And people want this...?
https://www.facebook.com/100001835317299/posts/4605691946168604/
Well if it's to keep us all safe then it's justified
Quote from: astfgyl on October 22, 2020, 08:09:21 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 07:20:52 PM
Grafton Street today. And people want this...?
https://www.facebook.com/100001835317299/posts/4605691946168604/
Well if it's to keep us all safe then it's justified
Bart: "Wow, that's a nice club you have officer!"
Officer Lou: "That's not a club son. It's a baton."
Bart: "A baton? And what do you do with it officer?"
Officer Lou: "Oh, we club people with it!"
The amazing part of it all is that at least half of the guards have to know there is something not quite right with what they are doing but in the finest of historical tradition they simply follow the orders.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on October 22, 2020, 05:46:19 PM
I think the anti lockdown sentiment here in the country will increase once people realize Christmas is gone. I can't see them lifting this Level 5 on December 1st and if they do the best you can hope for by Christmas is Level 3. It's going to piss a lot of people off if they can't get out for a drink or visit relatives over Christmas. Here were I am now the guards are making people get out of the cars at the checkpoints and are searching them which is not going down well.
Where was that and searching under what pretences?
Drogheda. My mate saw cars in front of him getting searched last night while he was leaving his Girlfriend to work. He was just asked if he minded if they took a look in his car they didn't give him a reason, it's not like had he of said no the cops would have said no bother mate. He felt like he didn't really have a choice.
I was talking to a few people about it and someone said that apparently the excuse is they are looking for big loads of drink to see if people are having parties. Which probably is the excuse the cops are using but not the real reason behind it.
Sounds to me like they are (probably inadvertently) normalising the idea of living in a police state. There is no way all of this shite is anything to do with a virus. I have no idea what it is about, but it isn't that.
They underestimate us.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 07:20:52 PM
Grafton Street today. And people want this...?
https://www.facebook.com/100001835317299/posts/4605691946168604/
The frightening thing here is that the polis waded into innocent civilians and the rest of the (many) civilians just stood by and were content to film the proceedings without any intervention to help out their fellow human beings.
Conditioned much?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 09:52:05 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 07:20:52 PM
Grafton Street today. And people want this...?
https://www.facebook.com/100001835317299/posts/4605691946168604/
The frightening thing here is that the polis waded into innocent civilians and the rest of the (many) civilians just stood by and were content to film the proceedings without any intervention to help out their fellow human beings.
Conditioned much?
That behaviour is nothing new tbh.
Quote from: mickO))) on October 22, 2020, 09:31:21 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 07:23:49 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on October 22, 2020, 05:46:19 PM
I think the anti lockdown sentiment here in the country will increase once people realize Christmas is gone. I can't see them lifting this Level 5 on December 1st and if they do the best you can hope for by Christmas is Level 3. It's going to piss a lot of people off if they can't get out for a drink or visit relatives over Christmas. Here were I am now the guards are making people get out of the cars at the checkpoints and are searching them which is not going down well.
Where was that and searching under what pretences?
Drogheda. My mate saw cars in front of him getting searched last night while he was leaving his Girlfriend to work. He was just asked if he minded if they took a look in his car they didn't give him a reason, it's not like had he of said no the cops would have said no bother mate. He felt like he didn't really have a choice.
I was talking to a few people about it and someone said that apparently the excuse is they are looking for big loads of drink to see if people are having parties. Which probably is the excuse the cops are using but not the real reason behind it.
Once the police start thaat stuff they can fuck right off. With the greatest of respect, no you can't look in my car thank you very much.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 09:45:40 PM
They underestimate us.
Hate to say it but the theyre spot on with their estimation of Ireland. We are very much a subservient people only interested with towing the line and causing no trouble.
Quote from: Blackout on October 22, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 09:45:40 PM
They underestimate us.
Hate to say it but the theyre spot on with their estimation of Ireland. We are very much a subservient people only interested with towing the line and causing no trouble.
Yep. Worked that way with the water protests, didn't it?
I haven't paid a penny, did you?
I pay every month out of my exorbitant tax that I get fuck all BUT tap water out of. They're going to privatise it eventually.
Quote from: Blackout on October 22, 2020, 10:05:18 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 22, 2020, 09:45:40 PM
They underestimate us.
Hate to say it but the theyre spot on with their estimation of Ireland. We are very much a subservient people only interested with towing the line and causing no trouble.
Bang on. It's a lot like the aldi ad where the lad at the barbecue has the smoke billowing into his eyes but he's saying "ah no It's grand".
We will submit.
Have to disagree after spending a few years in Canada I don't think we are subservient the Irish would not put up with half of the shit that goes on over in Canada. Irish are not the most confrontational but I don't think we are push overs either. If Trudeau told Canadians tomorrow that drinking piss makes your dick bigger they would start gulping it down by the gallon without asking a single question.
Quote from: mickO))) on October 22, 2020, 11:23:38 PM
Have to disagree after spending a few years in Canada I don't think we are subservient the Irish would not put up with half of the shit that goes on over in Canada. Irish are not the most confrontational but I don't think we are push overs either. If Trudeau told Canadians tomorrow that drinking piss makes your dick bigger they would start gulping it down by the gallon without asking a single question.
I was under the impression that Canada was some sort of perfect union of socialist and capitalist ideals. No messing I honestly thought it was like that until the other day when I found out about the internment camps.
No it's not the place that it tries to portray itself as to the outside world. The country is very divided under Trudeau and the majority of people live pay cheque to pay cheque and always struggle financially. Loads of other issues that I won't bother getting into here because I could write a book on it at this stage. Sure I became a citizen this year and I most likely will never set foot in the place again unless things take a drastic change. I am heading for Australia next.
Australia doesn't look great at the minute either to be fair. Disappointing about Canada though. My brother lived there for about 5 years and gave a glowing review
Canada(Trudeau) even managed to completely fuck up legalizing weed 90% of what people are smoking in the country comes from illegal sources and it was legalized two years ago this week.
Where did your brother live? If I was ever to go back Montreal would probably be the only place I would live.
Just Melbourne at the minute is bad in Oz which is where I want to eventually end up. My best mate is in Sydney right now I talk to him everyday and he said you wouldn't even think the virus existed everything is going on as normal there right now.
Well that's reassuring that some part of the world is going on somewhat normal. The brother was in Vancouver and he maintains it was class. He is on here as it happens but he surely won't come out of the woodwork lest anyone associates him with me lol
Never been to Vancouver wanted to visit but flights there cost the same as one to Europe. I know a few who have if you are into the outdoors stuff it's good and it's the only part of the country where you get little to no snow. I was dealing with -40 degree winters for between 5-7 months per year which really starts to take it's toll on you. The problem with Vancouver is you need to be earning 6 figures to live comfortably it's the most expensive place in the country. I was in Toronto which is the second most expensive.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 23, 2020, 12:41:18 AM
Well that's reassuring that some part of the world is going on somewhat normal. The brother was in Vancouver and he maintains it was class. He is on here as it happens but he surely won't come out of the woodwork lest anyone associates him with me lol
lol
Vaguely thread related but yeah I lived in Vancouver for 5 years and loved it. There's difficulties in the place and a severe obvious divide in wealth, property issues (it costs a fortune/massive industry, vacant apartments and a ridiculous amount of homelessness) but beyond the obvious faults in there, it's a lovely place to live. Relaxed, generally decent people. Plenty of stuff to do, indoors and outdoors. Quality of life there in general is excellent, even though it is intensely expensive and (iirc) has one of the lowest minimum wages in the country coupled with highest rents. That's pretty much what sent me home in the end; coupled with the overall isolation of it just being the two of us really (wife and I) and missing family, there was also no way we'd ever get out of the money trap there without punishing ourselves for living. Mixed bag, but living anywhere is, so on the whole I very much enjoyed it there.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 23, 2020, 12:41:18 AM
Well that's reassuring that some part of the world is going on somewhat normal. The brother was in Vancouver and he maintains it was class. He is on here as it happens but he surely won't come out of the woodwork lest anyone associates him with me lol
Bro Ducky. I knew it! :laugh:
42,000 new cases confirmed in France yesterday. Who knows, maybe soon we'll clock up as many as Ireland has in total in a single day! Apparently 45% of ICU occupancy here is now COVID... that said (and bearing in mind astfgly's probable objection), I don't know how much of that is people with flu and/or pneumonia as a seasonal co-morbidity, nor for that matter what % is from people presenting only with flu and/or pneumonia, nor - finally - what typical occupancy rate is for this time of year for those conditions. Whatever the case, if there is any population protection to be had from an even slightly permeable herd immunity, then we seem to be well on our way to finding out!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 23, 2020, 11:52:40 AM
Bro Ducky. I knew it! :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Surreptitious sibling rivalry afoot on MW!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 23, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
42,000 new cases confirmed in France yesterday. Who knows, maybe soon we'll clock up as many as Ireland has in total in a single day! Apparently 45% of ICU occupancy here is now COVID... that said (and bearing in mind astfgly's probable objection), I don't know how much of that is people with flu and/or pneumonia as a seasonal co-morbidity, nor for that matter what % is from people presenting only with flu and/or pneumonia, nor - finally - what typical occupancy rate is for this time of year for those conditions. Whatever the case, if there is any population protection to be had from an even slightly permeable herd immunity, then we seem to be well on our way to finding out!
The figures are worth looking into but if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Do the deaths there still point to the lower IFR? Looking at Ireland's trolley watch site yesterday and there are far less waiting on trolleys here yesterday 2020 than yesterday 2019. That could also be due to the drop in folks presenting with other stuff so needs thinking about before concluding anything. After all the pubs are closed so that should bring accidental things down a bit!
Quote from: Ollkiller on October 22, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Quote from: Abandon All Hope on October 21, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb_QFImg9yI
Fucking nonsense.
He's true to his word anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfPGb2Bc4hw
Quote from: Giggles on October 24, 2020, 04:02:50 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on October 22, 2020, 01:51:14 PM
Quote from: Abandon All Hope on October 21, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb_QFImg9yI
Fucking nonsense.
He's true to his word anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfPGb2Bc4hw
Well fair fucks to him. Seriously. I had a vision of him doing fuck all but I was emphatically proved wrong.
Has anyone seen the videos from Naples last night where the protesters refused to cause violence against the police and the police ended up breaking the line and marching with them?
Would love to see it happen here.
As nauseating as Leo Varadkar's speeches are I think this lad might just pip him for Winston Churchill-esque waffle.
"God is watching yous all, and you're fucking around with your eternal destination." :-\
Quote from: Nazgûl on October 24, 2020, 05:07:14 PM
"God is watching yous all, and you're fucking around your eternal destination." :-\
I think he took that quote from one of the Terminator flicks. Think Schwarzenegger might have said it in T2
Quote from: astfgyl on October 24, 2020, 05:16:31 PM
Quote from: Nazgûl on October 24, 2020, 05:07:14 PM
"God is watching yous all, and you're fucking around your eternal destination." :-\
I think he took that quote from one of the Terminator flicks. Think Schwarzenegger might have said it in T2
No man, this was me quoting that lad roaring at guards in the video...which was totally his own, and sounds mental.
Ah yeah, I copped that. The oul text is a poor means of expression.
Imagine the conversations in the Paddywagons after that though! Surely at least half of them are considering his points.
Maybe.
All them lot were considering was that hefty overtime pay..a new flatscreen or nespresso machine for the donut in the morning.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 24, 2020, 05:34:25 PM
Ah yeah, I copped that. The oul text is a poor means of expression.
Ah, you were taking the piss outta Leo...I see now ::)
Quote from: Nazgûl on October 24, 2020, 05:51:19 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 24, 2020, 05:34:25 PM
Ah yeah, I copped that. The oul text is a poor means of expression.
Ah, you were taking the piss outta Leo...I see now ::)
It wasn't my best work to be fair
Not my own, came across it earlier.
Q. If science developed a vaccine that was 99.8% effective in killing covid, would you be in favour of a return to normal?
A. Your wish is granted - it's called the human immune system and it's 99.8% effective in killing covid.
The only thing is that much like the flu vaccine it doesn't work so well in the over 70's :(
But... If enough of the younger group were to take it, it would offer protection to those on whom the treatment is less effective in much the same way those at low risk are being advised to take the flu vaccine this year.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 24, 2020, 05:42:36 PM
All them lot were considering was that hefty overtime pay..a new flatscreen or nespresso machine for the donut in the morning.
Tangent here but I never use the nespresso machine anymore since I realised how good coffee tastes out of those Italian stainless steel cafetieres. No contest, and those capsules are highway robbery anyway.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 25, 2020, 10:41:48 AM
Not my own, came across it earlier.
Q. If science developed a vaccine that was 99.8% effective in killing covid, would you be in favour of a return to normal?
A. Your wish is granted - it's called the human immune system and it's 99.8% effective in killing covid.
The only thing is that much like the flu vaccine it doesn't work so well in the over 70's :(
But... If enough of the younger group were to take it, it would offer protection to those on whom the treatment is less effective in much the same way those at low risk are being advised to take the flu vaccine this year.
Would the vaccine also stop all the secondary complications too, that the immune system seems to have a problem sorting out?
Hopefully so, but that is certainly unknown as of yet. The hope would be I suppose that those secondary complications would be the exception rather than the rule. You were fairly knocked for six after it, have you recovered fully at this stage or is there a lingering malaise? I only have yourself to ask, as the few others I know who tested positive were asymptomatic so they of course can't answer that.
My fear for the vaccines currently on the cards is that they will be rushed out without proper due process. I'm not against the idea of vaccinations at all, but the way it seems to be going for this one worries me. I was reading this article in the BMJ this morning and it left me rather confused about a lot of it. Worth a read for those both for and against the idea: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037.
Edit: I have to say also that I think when governments say things like "there is no way out of this without a vaccine" that they mean that as much for themselves as the general population. Imagine the level of disbelief and anger if they were to come out now and say they might have gotten a bit too excited by the initial media coverage. In that respect, I hope one comes along as much as anybody and is readily available for those who feel at high risk or who want to take it even if not in the high risk group. I would be strongly opposed to it being mandatory though.
The bird works for a French pharmaceutical crowd and her prediction is that it will be the end of next year at the very earliest that there will be a viable vaccine, and beyond that before you have the 50-70% of the population either having been infected or vaccinated to provide the herd protection.
Fucking depressing to think this is going to go on for another 18 months if not longer.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 25, 2020, 11:47:15 AM
Hopefully so, but that is certainly unknown as of yet. The hope would be I suppose that those secondary complications would be the exception rather than the rule. You were fairly knocked for six after it, have you recovered fully at this stage or is there a lingering malaise? I only have yourself to ask, as the few others I know who tested positive were asymptomatic so they of course can't answer that.
Still not recovered, it was only on Thursday I ended up in the ED with crippling chest pains and dizziness, and from what the consultant was telling me they're seeing a few people every week with post covid symptoms
So I guess another way of phrasing the question is would you willingly contract the virus to get things back to normal, but it means there's a decent chance you could suffer long covid symptoms that could last for months afterwards?
Edit: saying all that, I'm still not convinced lockdowns are the way forward. There was a spike since schools and colleges went back, which everyone had predicted, and absolutely nothing was done to prepare for it
Quote from: Trev on October 25, 2020, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 25, 2020, 11:47:15 AM
Hopefully so, but that is certainly unknown as of yet. The hope would be I suppose that those secondary complications would be the exception rather than the rule. You were fairly knocked for six after it, have you recovered fully at this stage or is there a lingering malaise? I only have yourself to ask, as the few others I know who tested positive were asymptomatic so they of course can't answer that.
Still not recovered, it was only on Thursday I ended up in the ED with crippling chest pains and dizziness, and from what the consultant was telling me they're seeing a few people every week with post covid symptoms
So I guess another way of phrasing the question is would you willingly contract the virus to get things back to normal, but it means there's a decent chance you could suffer long covid symptoms that could last for months afterwards?
Edit: saying all that, I'm still not convinced lockdowns are the way forward. There was a spike since schools and colleges went back, which everyone had predicted, and absolutely nothing was done to prepare for it
Sorry to hear that man, that doesn't sound great at all. Hopefully you won't have to go through that for much longer and it isn't something I would wish on anyone. Personally I feel unafraid of it, but hearing your story is knocking that feeling back a bit to be honest. I have zero faith in media coverage of the thing but speaking to somebody without the agenda of sales is a whole different experience.
I don't think lockdowns are sustainable long term either and the only idea I have seen other than that is the focused protection put forward by the Great Barrington crowd. That seems to be the most balanced way forward that anyone has come up with yet. It's a pity it is so demonised in the media by the use of phrases like "let it rip" and such like and a little bit more balanced media coverage would help a lot in encouraging the idea of coming up with alternative solutions, even other than the Barrington one. A lot of the reason I get so annoyed by it all is that being in another lockdown makes it feel like nothing has been learned in the months since the first one.
Yeah it's been a fucker alright. I suppose I'm looking at it from the side that since it's relatively new there's still no idea what the long term implications are going to be for people, and that's something that isn't being given any coverage (amongst other things) . And the government aren't interested in sorting out the HSE so it could all kick off again a few years down the line
Think Pedro had it right about the middle ground needing to be reclaimed, but when tv shows seem to be all about the ratings have two completely opposite numpties shouting over each other is always going to get more viewers. I dunno how it'll be fixed though , maybe you lads can dump the mushie stashes into the water supply and see how it works out
I see where you are coming from and it's a great point about the middle ground again. Whenever I feel a bit like it has been misreported to an extent or that the media and pharmaceuticals have a bit of conflict of interest, the only places I can find any info to back that up are places that I quite frankly don't want to be, peddling ideas that I can't get on board with. One minute I'm looking at Carl Heneghan, next thing I know it's some nationalist far right shit trying to draw me in. Had these conversations been happening in the mainstream from the outset, a lot of folks including me wouldn't be going down those roads.
I've surely said some things on here that you as a fella who has had it (and the long version at that) must have found pretty annoying and fair play to you for not taking it that way and joining the conversation with me on here. I'm trying to stay away from the extreme version of events but at the same time I'm driven to the fringe in looking for the info that RTE doesn't want me to have. I'm trying to use the noggin more lately though and hopefully being a bit more discerning in separating the wheat from the chaff. At one stage I was nearly convinced it didn't even exist in the first place but then I hear your own tale and I'd feel like a knob to be thinking you have some reason to be talking shite.
I'll see what I can do with the mushies!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 23, 2020, 11:55:42 AM
42,000 new cases confirmed in France yesterday. Who knows, maybe soon we'll clock up as many as Ireland has in total in a single day!
52,000 today!
How's the deaths racking up with that?
Leo Varadkar appears to highlight media frenzy around the new plague...
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1320379523637104641.html
Someone in government trying to introduce a bit of calm to the situation. ???
Edit: Original thread with comments here: https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1320379523637104641
Quote from: astfgyl on October 25, 2020, 09:28:08 PM
How's the deaths racking up with that?
We're all already dead; 2020 is purgatory, granting us the wish of perfect hindsight at how good we had it.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 25, 2020, 09:33:37 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 25, 2020, 09:28:08 PM
How's the deaths racking up with that?
We're all already dead; 2020 is purgatory, granting us the wish of perfect hindsight at how good we had it.
Yeah in fairness hindsight is 2020
https://youtu.be/PRu6Mgb49Uk
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 26, 2020, 07:55:07 PM
https://youtu.be/PRu6Mgb49Uk
Ah me oul pal Ivor!
I've been following him for months now but I feel he is hurting himself lately by retweeting some of the conspiracy stuff around all of this. Not saying he is right or wrong but it gives people an excuse to discredit his analyses. Like lately I'm looking at his stuff and I'm getting sent towards Jim Corr and some of the nationalist crowd. That will turn a lot of folks away from his logic. His own videos beyond the stuff he retweets are essential viewing though.
So New Zealand has set up quarantine camps where members of households can be forcibly detained including their close contacts. How long before we follow suit here? Never, hopefully, but this has all gotten so out of hand that nothing would surprise me now.
Do you have a solid source for that? Or is it just the echoes of this:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/coronavirus-british-politician-sparks-police-state-fears-with-false-claims-about-nz-s-quarantine.html
https://youtu.be/v3ZP9nEoJyg
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 27, 2020, 12:14:16 PM
Do you have a solid source for that? Or is it just the echoes of this:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/coronavirus-british-politician-sparks-police-state-fears-with-false-claims-about-nz-s-quarantine.html
That is the exact video I watched. I didn't think of it along the lines of anyone with a cold being detained as the British fella says and hadn't seen his version until now. That health minister is definitely saying that covid cases will be forcibly detained though and leaving the MP's assertions out of it, it is still a worrying idea if it catches on.
But good spot, I am 2 months late to this particular party.
Here is Ardern's quote on it:
QuoteWe are quarantining everyone. Now we are also mandating testing. That makes us the most stringent in the world. There are countries that are requiring self-isolation; we're taking it a bit further.
If anyone moves into a common area or is getting some fresh air, which is all monitored no one can do that on their own. They can only leave or be in a space to get a little bit of fresh air if they are supervised, because ofcourse it's a quarantine facility.
We have put in millions of dollars into supporting that to happen.
I have a number of questions about people refusing – what do we do if someone refuses to be tested. Well they can't now. If someone refuses in our facilities to be tested, they have to keep staying. So they won't be allowed to leave after 14 days. They have to stay on for another 14 days.
So, it's a pretty good incentive. You either get your tests done and make sure you're cleared or we will keep you in a facility longer. So I think most people will look at it and say I will take the test.
Edit: Okay, this looks a bit more legit alright:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/coronavirus-all-new-zealand-s-confirmed-covid-19-cases-to-be-put-in-quarantine-facilities-from-now-on.html
Can't find that Ardern quote or the video though.
The Ardern FB live that the quotes are from is here https://greatgameindia.com/new-zealand-quarantine-camps/
Not the most mainstream of sources but the video is there for our own confirmation.
Good graph here for anyone interested in the Swedish response: https://twitter.com/MihaiVioreanu/status/1320798774046957573/photo/1
There's a screenshot, but no vid that I can find on that page.
You on mobile? I can watch it no bother on the laptop here. It's definitely there. Looks like a screenshot but can be played. It's after around 5 minutes she gives those quotes
Laptop, so it must be one of my blockers that doesn't like the vid file.
I have Ublock origin on mine here with Chromium plays it fine. Can confirm the quotes are legit anyway.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 27, 2020, 12:23:01 PM
https://youtu.be/v3ZP9nEoJyg
So
this is the Rory's Stories I constantly see being mercilessly crucified on social media for not being funny! Certainly all makes sense now :laugh:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/china-covid-lockdown-propaganda
A more well-researched take on my own initial impression that there was something a bit iffy about the worldwide response. I said back in March or April that the whole thing was giving me Cambridge Analytica vibes, which was subject to some rebuke. It was only a gut feeling I had but I still think it applies.
Here is a site from Martin Kulldorff which aims to collect as many anti-lockdown articles as possible in the one place
http://thepriceofpanic.com/
And lastly, this one is a long read but the first article I've posted here might give some indication as to why Ireland abandoned its' own pandemic response plan as soon as one was actually announced.. https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/pandemicinfluenza/guidance/pandemicinfluenzapreparednessforireland/File,3260,en.pdf
The response here has been based on a far higher IFR than what is actually being seen worldwide and given what we now know, it's interesting (depressing/infuriating) to see where our initial plan would have us now. Hint: Not where we are at.
Edit: Must put in the WHO's own pandemic management advice from 2019. https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789241516839-eng.pdf
The impatient among us can skip to page 9 for the part where they say "Not recommended in any circumstances" for "Contact tracing" and "Quarantine of exposed individuals" and also "Internal travel restrictions".
And look at what we are at.... Go China!!!
@Ducky....
You can come out from under your bed now bud....
https://www.facebook.com/vyzrtechnologies/videos/the-evolution-of-personal-protection-biovyzr-10-is-here/172271724512054/
They've just announced 523 new deaths here for last 24 hours...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 27, 2020, 07:07:33 PM
They've just announced 523 new deaths here for last 24 hours...
Sound ominous. A good exercise around that is to check the ICU figures for today and yesterday as it gives a bit of insight as to how many of those patients were adjudged to be too infirm to be afforded ICU due to age or other underlying factors. Then throw that into the average deaths per day for France which is 15 or 16 hundred a day roughly. And lastly when they become available, check today's all cause mortality figures and see where it is in terms of the average. Also wait for the age breakdown to see if it buries the notions of the Great Barrington crowd.
If then the daily excess is 400 or 500 across all age ranges, it's time for https://www.vyzrtech.com/products/bio-vyzr
Half of that figure is from retirement homes, I think probably accumulated over a few days, though I'm not sure. Either way, even the remaining half is a big uptick in mortalities which has been looming since the daily infection figures hit the 30k+ a couple of weeks ago. Seems highly likely Macron will announce a second lockdown in his planned address to the nation tomorrow evening (planned since yesterday).
I reckon your prediction will turn out to be true. I think a second lockdown is inevitable in all countries in europe who had one in the first place. I have many suspicions about that, especially given the natural rise in respiratory infections and deaths for the time of year, but it's happening one way or the other.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/cristiano-ronaldo-coronavirus-test-positive-symptoms-pcr-juventus-vs-barcelona-b1397080.html
Quote from: astfgyl on October 28, 2020, 04:33:23 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/cristiano-ronaldo-coronavirus-test-positive-symptoms-pcr-juventus-vs-barcelona-b1397080.html
Messi officially the greatest then?
Something I discovered on a French stats site yesterday is that the age group 15-44 is hugely over-represented in COVID suspicion visits to E&R and house calls compared to older age groups. With house calls, between May and this week, they account for 57% of all house calls, and - obviously, since they're a very low risk group - they have the smallest percentage of hospitalizations per E&R visit, at around 13%. In other words, the other 87% didn't need to go to the hospital. Intuitively I translate this as an indication that the younger age group are disproportionately worried about themselves, that they're the age group that are panicking the most, even though they're the least in danger.
Anyone know if similar stats available for other countries??
I meant to have a look at that for Ireland earlier but I gave meself the day off from the covid. It did get me wondering about how many gratuitous hospitalisations with mild illness are occurring due to the general fear instilled in people rather than the reassurance that is probably needed. That of course doesn't count for those in ICU, but for general beds it must be a bit of the figure. Imagine going to the doctor with flu in your 30's, they wouldn't even begin to contemplate highlighting that 1 in 1000 dies from it, they would just send you home, few days off work and reassure you you'd be grand in a few days like the other 999 out of the 1000. It's rather irresponsible of doctors even to be carrying on the way they are with this one. Me own doctor simply diagnoses over the phone now. Have been given antibiotic for two of the kids without so much as them being looked at. I must ring the cunt for Xanax or Largactil syrup now I think of it. And fuck it if he has a few Stilnacht going I'll take those as well. And D10's still worth a few bob must get a few of those sure I'm gone half mad from the fear of covid doc
https://collateralglobal.org/
Bit of info here on the poor health outcomes associated with lockdowns. Interesting reading.
Another interesting bit here on how the UK government set about spreading the message. Looks very similar to what we have here.
https://evidencenotfear.com/how-sage-and-uk-media-created-fear-in-the-british-public/
Saw a couple of videos over the weekend of the Halloween shenanigans in Dublin.
The usual fare of kids burning shit on the green of some housing estate and setting off shitloads of fireworks.
Nothing unusual there, except that the Gardaí showed up. Lots and lots of Gardaí showed up.
Gardaí in full riot gear, going all out on these kids.
You'd nearly think they were practicing for something, wouldn't you?
Open your eyes people.
If only they'd do that with the little shites every year
Quote from: Trev on November 02, 2020, 07:44:08 AM
If only they'd do that with the little shites every year
Yep, let's turn Ireland into a police state. That'll be the answer.
We'll, it's heading that way anyway.
"We can have a Christmas if we all behave ourselves." Remember that from Mehole Martin a few weeks ago? Jaysus this is hard work...
So, deploy police in the US, good; deploy police in Ireland, bad? Just trying to follow along the various threads here...
Fully grown scumbags looting, burning and in some cases killing, very bad, young f'las on the green chucking a few black cat bangers around the estate, not the worst, I'd argue. Most of us probably indulged in the latter, but hopefully not the former because if you did, you couldn't really complain if you got a slap of a baton across the chops.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 02, 2020, 08:15:13 AM
So, deploy police in the US, good; deploy police in Ireland, bad? Just trying to follow along the various threads here...
Are you being a thicko on purpose lad?
In fairness to the Italians, at least they're starting to stand up to this shit and fight back.
The more this happens the more chance we have of ripping our lives back out of the clutches of Bill Gates and Co... :abbath:
I'm afraid my conspiracy-theory-ometer is now setting off sirens and bells. The fact the science tells us this lockdown won't make a blind bit of difference to the progress of this disease just rams home the sense that something else is going on.
The destruction of the economy of Europe and submission of its Independant workers. Look out for universal basic income, the Great Reset, the New Green Economy, Klauss Schwab and the World Economic Forum's plans for a communist replacement of capitalism, centrally managed through United Nations agencies, Lagarde, Soros, Gates - they all see this an an 'opportunity', rising civil unrest (with protestors described as right wing extremists), probably revolution and maybe civil war. I'm afraid that's the way I see it.
So people's lack of energy to oppose the ruin of their independence and livelihood is a great shame. I think we could still safeguard Ireland and Europe from the full effects of this debacle but I doubt it now. Human nature is too predictable and too soft in their modern way of life.
Feel safe in your own homes because that's the new prison system for all.
And I seen people were kicking off in Madrid there over the weekend. This is good....
The media are as complicit in all this as any government or police force.
Anyone who dare question or rise up to "The New Normal" is, as I said earlier 'a right wing extremist, an anti maker, a flat earther, etc'....
Anything to discredit the people in our society who are actually asking questions about all this.
You know that when you are tested for Covid-19 that they aren't actually looking for the Corona Virus. They're are checking for your own natural anti-bodies that fight off virus infections?
So when they tick you off as positive they're not even anywhere near sure it's actually Covid you have. Hospitals have never been so empty.
The former Chief Science Officer of Pfizer said; "Second Wave" faked on false positive Covid tests.
"Pandemic is over!"
Updated on 13th October 2020
Wuhan on Halloween.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6iCKHlivD8&ab_channel=Ruptly
Quote from: Bigmac on November 02, 2020, 09:20:46 AM
Wuhan on Halloween.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6iCKHlivD8&ab_channel=Ruptly
One of the first YT comments: "China has been infected with Western cultural virus." :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 02, 2020, 08:48:46 AM
You know that when you are tested for Covid-19 that they aren't actually looking for the Corona Virus. They're are checking for your own natural anti-bodies that fight off virus infections?
So when they tick you off as positive they're not even anywhere near sure it's actually Covid you have. Hospitals have never been so empty.
This is completely false. The PCR tests are not serology tests, they are tests to detect the presence of the SARS-CoV-2 viral molecule. It's highly specific, which the serology tests are not. And hospitals in Spain and France are packed.
I'm still not in favour of the lockdown in Ireland, that said. But as I've said to astfgyl before, there's no need to tumble into falsehoods for reasons not to support it, and doing so actually weakens the position.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on November 02, 2020, 08:19:44 AM
Fully grown scumbags looting, burning and in some cases killing, very bad, young f'las on the green chucking a few black cat bangers around the estate, not the worst, I'd argue. Most of us probably indulged in the latter, but hopefully not the former because if you did, you couldn't really complain if you got a slap of a baton across the chops.
Not as bad no, but young fellas going around burning up greens and wrecking them, setting the local playground on fire, shooting fireworks at people's houses and at then at them when they go outside, smashing in car windows and basically using Halloween as an excuse to be utter scumbags, deserve all the battering they get
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 02, 2020, 08:48:46 AM
Hospitals have never been so empty.
Only going from personal experience, but the missus is getting at least one or two texts a week for overtime shifts because of how busy they are. I'm not saying that it's all down to covid but they're nowhere near empty
Quote from: Trev on November 02, 2020, 09:59:03 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 02, 2020, 08:48:46 AM
Hospitals have never been so empty.
Only going from personal experience, but the missus is getting at least one or two texts a week for overtime shifts because of how busy they are. I'm not saying that it's all down to covid but they're nowhere near empty
Ah yes, now they're not. As you'd expect when any flu season kicks in.
It's barely the start of flu season, and this has been happening for months
Again I'm not saying it's all due to covid, more likely a legacy of underfunding the health service, but to say hospitals just doesn't ring true. At least in terms of ICU capacity
Quote from: Trev on November 02, 2020, 12:50:21 PM
It's barely the start of flu season, and this has been happening for months
Again I'm not saying it's all due to covid, more likely a legacy of underfunding the health service, but to say hospitals just doesn't ring true. At least in terms of ICU capacity
I should have elaborated, but I wasn't just talking about Ireland.
The flu disappearing around the world is an odd one. Have seen suggestions of viral interference i.e. coronavirus beating out influenza, and also suggestions of flu patients being reclassified as covid. Hard to know really at this stage. I did have a look into flu testing and it is actually up since last year but the figures are still down to where they are. Weird.
That got me thinking then of PCR testing for influenza. If PCR at 45 cycles is picking up dead fragments of RNA in healthy people for covid, why then isn't it doing the same for flu and giving us lots of asymptomatic cases of that? I think the answer might be in the fact that only people who show symptoms are tested for flu and so fulfil the criteria for actual cases (positive test along with clinical symptoms), while the covid policy of testing basically anyone at all gives a wildly overblown picture of the severity of the outbreak. That is of course a fantastic resource for immunology studies, but does allow the hype to overtake the reality somewhat.
I posted the hpsc advice around testing a bit back and predicted numbers to fall in the next couple of weeks due to this proposed change in notification policy and it looks to be coming to fruition, but that could just be coincidence as I don't actually know if that has been implemented.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10223627396730663&id=1163565889
What was that? It's been removed
Quote from: astfgyl on November 02, 2020, 04:56:55 PM
The flu disappearing around the world is an odd one. Have seen suggestions of viral interference i.e. coronavirus beating out influenza, and also suggestions of flu patients being reclassified as covid. Hard to know really at this stage. I did have a look into flu testing and it is actually up since last year but the figures are still down to where they are. Weird.
That got me thinking then of PCR testing for influenza. If PCR at 45 cycles is picking up dead fragments of RNA in healthy people for covid, why then isn't it doing the same for flu and giving us lots of asymptomatic cases of that? I think the answer might be in the fact that only people who show symptoms are tested for flu and so fulfil the criteria for actual cases (positive test along with clinical symptoms), while the covid policy of testing basically anyone at all gives a wildly overblown picture of the severity of the outbreak. That is of course a fantastic resource for immunology studies, but does allow the hype to overtake the reality somewhat.
I posted the hpsc advice around testing a bit back and predicted numbers to fall in the next couple of weeks due to this proposed change in notification policy and it looks to be coming to fruition, but that could just be coincidence as I don't actually know if that has been implemented.
Woaaaaah there big lad, there's only room for one ladín to bamboozle the common man with medical jargon on this board!
Yes, we'll have no preponderantisms on this forum. Right... :abbath:
Quote from: Giggles on November 03, 2020, 09:06:18 PM
What was that? It's been removed
https://www.facebook.com/560689457/posts/10158937781309458/?sfnsn=wa
Freedom in Sweden man....
Quote from: Caomhaoin on November 03, 2020, 09:11:31 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on November 02, 2020, 04:56:55 PM
The flu disappearing around the world is an odd one. Have seen suggestions of viral interference i.e. coronavirus beating out influenza, and also suggestions of flu patients being reclassified as covid. Hard to know really at this stage. I did have a look into flu testing and it is actually up since last year but the figures are still down to where they are. Weird.
That got me thinking then of PCR testing for influenza. If PCR at 45 cycles is picking up dead fragments of RNA in healthy people for covid, why then isn't it doing the same for flu and giving us lots of asymptomatic cases of that? I think the answer might be in the fact that only people who show symptoms are tested for flu and so fulfil the criteria for actual cases (positive test along with clinical symptoms), while the covid policy of testing basically anyone at all gives a wildly overblown picture of the severity of the outbreak. That is of course a fantastic resource for immunology studies, but does allow the hype to overtake the reality somewhat.
I posted the hpsc advice around testing a bit back and predicted numbers to fall in the next couple of weeks due to this proposed change in notification policy and it looks to be coming to fruition, but that could just be coincidence as I don't actually know if that has been implemented.
Woaaaaah there big lad, there's only room for one ladín to bamboozle the common man with medical jargon on this board!
I know. I had to tidy up me arguments big style after how many times he handed it to me on technicalities!
France reported 854 deaths yesterday, with a more or less 50/50 split between hospitals and nursing homes/hospices. Setting aside the question of whether they were "legitimate" COVID deaths or not, there were only a handful of days with higher mortality levels than that at the peak of the pandemic in March/April.
France had an average of 1647 deaths per day in 2018. Probably high degree of variance for different months but that is the rough daily average. I'll be very interested to see the total all-cause mortality for the year when the figures are available to try get a good handle on the actual impact of covid and put to bed the from/with argument. Be a couple of months now but my guess is that it will be somewhere in between the two extremes of opinion.
Ireland so far this year is tracking below average for all-cause mortality. Taking population size into account for a rough estimate, France has 13 times the population of the Republic but their rolling average from the last week is 392.6 covid deaths vs Ireland's 3.6 average. So France's average covid-related death toll is 109 times greater than here. Of course population size is a blunt instrument which doesn't take into account age profile or indeed any other demographics, but still the difference is stark.
Would like to see a bit more detail around the French counting method vs the Irish one but I imagine they are broadly similar. Ireland's total deaths from 2018 is 31,116 vs France's 601,000. That is around 1/20th here for 1/13th of the population, but doesn't give much indication of the reason for the 1/100th of the death rate due to covid. What are France getting so wrong?
Curiouser and curiouser said Alice sometime either before or after falling down the rabbit hole or around when she was coming up on the mushies. Supposedly she said it anyway in the face of some sort of weirdness.
Alice is still tripping hard down that rabbit hole...
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.20208728v2
Apart from the fact it has been withdrawn due to being wrong, it also states that there is now a third wave of Covid-19 in the U.S. That is a highly debatable statement.
Nevertheless, a kick in the stones for the mask evidence is good news for me as it might mean I can take the fucking thing off in peace some time in the next decade.
Numbers, as suspected.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-93-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19-had-underlying-condition-cso-1.4402354?mode=amp
Quote from: Pedrito on November 07, 2020, 08:37:13 AM
Numbers, as suspected.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-93-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19-had-underlying-condition-cso-1.4402354?mode=amp
Well worth shutting a nation down for. Stellar work oh brave and beautiful government.
No wonder poor ol' ♥️Big Donnie looked shook the other night. Poor man....
The truth will out... :abbath:
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1108/1176737-coronavirus-ireland/
Here we go, the old digital health passport on it's way. Bit of fun looking into the company ROQU Group providing it and the money that was awarded to them back before the summer. Nothing ever changes. The international rollout of digital surveillance is certainly fuck all to do with the situation we currently find ourselves in and hasn't been on the cards for years. Definitely won't be our own version of the social credit system, definitely not.
QuoteROQU GROUP LIMITED has 1 employees across all of its locations
Here he is: https://ie.linkedin.com/in/robertquirke Used to work for the IDA. Jobs for the boys anyone? Of course not.
And an article about him here, where he keeps referring to the size of the projects he is involved in and referring to his one person company as "we".
Who is backing him?
Here is the detail of the payment made to his company by the HSE: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/firms-paid-hse-coronavirus-fight-22183747
Edit: Throwing in this article here although medium.com stuff isn't exactly peer reviewed papers to say the least but have a read before rubbishing it. https://medium.com/@aarondavidsonn/the-health-passport-a-green-light-for-tyranny-545298e108d
Ye are laughing at my ideas now, but wait and see.
Edit 2: This gave me a laugh..
https://youtu.be/z4bzwNH7XnM
Nah it does seem pretty dodgy, getting €14m off the government two weeks after the company was incorporated? Awful bang of a minister mate sorting him out
The dicey buzz never wears off these cunts. While we are all getting the shits put up us by RTE of the daily death toll, the old folks can't leave their gaff, health workers are left high and dry, understaffed, and with shit PPE from China with short sleeves and not an N95 to be got because they are getting bought up by fucking eejits to wear while driving round the town on their own as well as thousands of old folks moved from hospitals to nursing homes to be written off as covid deaths without so much as a test given, the country brought to its' knees economically not to mention the problems with testing and tracing and interpretation of results and reallocation of scant resources to chase it down, gardai watching to see if tesco are selling a fucking underpants, can't have a haircut, stay away from everyone if they are sick or not, excess deaths for the year coming in the normal range and below it since May, no gigs, no matches to go to, mounting national debt, straight up game of numberwang with the figures every day, still fuck all done to increase pay for nurses or other health staff, mental health epidemic, suicides up, missed cancer screenings, 1/5 of the country on the list for a clinic, can't attend funerals or weddings, can't go for a fuckin pint even in the strictest of circumstances, and god only knows what else I could actually go on and on all day long.
But still, even at a time like this, there is time to sort an oul pal out with some of the swill from the covid trough.
Makes me fucking sick even without the inevitable punchline of the social credit/covid health passport.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-4f4ae2e3bad122d17742be22a2240ae8?
Nice to see a bit of encouraging news on a vaccine, but seems like they're really jumping the gun on the results they have so far, which the article does mention to be fair
Quote from: Trev on November 09, 2020, 01:45:24 PM
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-4f4ae2e3bad122d17742be22a2240ae8?
Nice to see a bit of encouraging news on a vaccine, but seems like they're really jumping the gun on the results they have so far, which the article does mention to be fair
Indeed, good to see. I know opinions on it will wildly vary, but if I had to take it myself to get into a live event I would.
Obviously there's a fear mechanism - and it's there to protect you, and not always indicative of tin foil hattery - but unless you're completely nonplussed by the notion of living in segregated Amazon/Netflix pods for the foreseeable future then you're going to have to eventually hedge your bets
somewhere. They've come up with the goods exceedingly fast, here, but from what I understand the effort that went into this is like a bank of supercomputers compared to the Commodore 64 of any immunology endeavour that came before it. If I don't extend my trust to something, I'll fucking crack up. So I'd extend my trust to this, quite happily, as someone who's a bit lost not being able to bump off a dozen sweaty men upstairs in a pub.
Shoot me up, Scotty. I'm actually allowing myself to see a way out for the first time all year. It was always going to be smart fuckers in white coats. Not thoughts, prayers, 'sticking together' Centra ad mentality, your chosen God, infinite lockdowns.
Seems after vaccines are brought in, Ticketmaster plan on screening everyone going to one of their concerts. No vaccine, no entry.
Well, if the vaccine is effective that will quickly become redundant, as the numbers and population transmission will plummet. Great fuel for the anti-vaxxer brigade though!
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on November 11, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Seems after vaccines are brought in, Ticketmaster plan on screening everyone going to one of their concerts. No vaccine, no entry.
Another reason to swerve that shower of cnuts!
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on November 11, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
No vaccine, no entry.
Not entirely correct, you can get in with no vax if you have a confirmed negative test.
Apparently the vax costs about 190 euro :-X
https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-covid-19-vaccination-negative-test/?fbclid=IwAR05qruEnwRPs9UuNydCZjjtojPFdblzDxaYaLTn9QUJNYMiXHw28eBOuC0
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on November 11, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Seems after vaccines are brought in, Ticketmaster plan on screening everyone going to one of their concerts. No vaccine, no entry.
Was just coming on here with the link as it happens https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/touring/9481166/ticketmaster-vaccine-check-concerts-plan?fbclid=IwAR1FklDcqPXAW2_FpeOmr4qcpG1U5h_jrAygI4irhGQlqo5ZuzRBNhrqvL4
This is actually fucking ridiculous. It will be off out to the underground raves for me instead of gigs if this is to be the craic. It's like the shit I posted about Health Pass Ireland a few posts back, ready to go since the very beginning and never going away. Lots of folks here disagree with me but there is no way this thing justifies the worldwide response at all. Watch the money roll in for the pharma companies, watch the control roll in for governments and watch the social media and tech giants make marionettes of us all from here on in. I think I'll look for a cabin in the woods somewhere and duck out of society altogether rather than partake in much more of this dystopian shite. Saw this coming since the beginning, here it comes, bias confirmed.
Worldometers has it that 99% of active cases are in mild condition. And this is the response. All that has been learned in the last 10 months but the same outcomes touted since the beginning carry on regardless. The testing goes up and up and the fatality rate goes down and down but the response never changes course. I honestly try keep an open mind but this was all predicted by the paranoia crowd at the start, that the virus would be used as an excuse to usher in an absolute load of bollocks and it is coming, day by day. Next it will be vaccine for work, for school, for going into a shop, for gigs, for flights, for visiting other people and for anything else one can think of. We all watch on at China and the social credit system and think it couldn't happen here. Well here it is and none of us can say we didn't see it coming because we are all letting it happen.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 11, 2020, 07:26:10 PM
Well, if the vaccine is effective that will quickly become redundant, as the numbers and population transmission will plummet. Great fuel for the anti-vaxxer brigade though!
Great fuel for the pharma and social control brigade!
Quote from: astfgyl on November 11, 2020, 07:34:59 PM
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on November 11, 2020, 07:16:17 PM
Seems after vaccines are brought in, Ticketmaster plan on screening everyone going to one of their concerts. No vaccine, no entry.
Was just coming on here with the link as it happens https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/touring/9481166/ticketmaster-vaccine-check-concerts-plan?fbclid=IwAR1FklDcqPXAW2_FpeOmr4qcpG1U5h_jrAygI4irhGQlqo5ZuzRBNhrqvL4
This is actually fucking ridiculous. It will be off out to the underground raves for me instead of gigs if this is to be the craic. It's like the shit I posted about Health Pass Ireland a few posts back, ready to go since the very beginning and never going away. Lots of folks here disagree with me but there is no way this thing justifies the worldwide response at all. Watch the money roll in for the pharma companies, watch the control roll in for governments and watch the social media and tech giants make marionettes of us all from here on in. I think I'll look for a cabin in the woods somewhere and duck out of society altogether rather than partake in much more of this dystopian shite. Saw this coming since the beginning, here it comes, bias confirmed.
Worldometers has it that 99% of active cases are in mild condition. And this is the response. All that has been learned in the last 10 months but the same outcomes touted since the beginning carry on regardless. The testing goes up and up and the fatality rate goes down and down but the response never changes course. I honestly try keep an open mind but this was all predicted by the paranoia crowd at the start, that the virus would be used as an excuse to usher in an absolute load of bollocks and it is coming, day by day. Next it will be vaccine for work, for school, for going into a shop, for gigs, for flights, for visiting other people and for anything else one can think of. We all watch on at China and the social credit system and think it couldn't happen here. Well here it is and none of us can say we didn't see it coming because we are all letting it happen.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 11, 2020, 07:26:10 PM
Well, if the vaccine is effective that will quickly become redundant, as the numbers and population transmission will plummet. Great fuel for the anti-vaxxer brigade though!
Great fuel for the pharma and social control brigade!
Man, I'm with you 100% on this. This is the biggest shafting the world has ever seen.
Fuck all this global bollox. Get me da fuck out of this fookin rat race.
The biggest shafting the world has ever seen sums it up about right. There should be something like the Nuremberg trials to deal with the orchestrators of this travesty. Of course it is now obvious why locking down was the preferred method of dealing with this (in spite of the WHO stating as recently as 2019 that locking down, quarantining the healthy and track and trace were definitely not the way to do things) and it was to usher in all this shite which otherwise would have had no support but is now being begged for. I'm not anti vax either but I am anti forced vax in the strongest way possible and this is what we are getting.
And all made possible by that little spy in our pockets, the smartphone. Roll on rolling pandemics and vaccines to solve them for ever more. And anyone who thinks I'm being paranoid will find out for themselves soon enough. So go along with it, get the health pass, get the tests, get the vaccine and be happy with it but if anyone is honest with themselves they will still know this outcome is a fucking fix for money and social control and erosion of personal freedoms and good luck to anyone who is able to put that to the back of their mind. The appetite for this had to be created by taking everything away that we enjoy and that makes life worth living so that we will accept this fucking bullshit as a compromise to get some of it back in a way.
The next step is for the SMEs to go to the wall, the mortgages to go into arrears and the vultures are waiting to pick the bones of society and feed the scraps back into massive faceless corporations so that everything will be owned by less than 1% of the population worldwide and we can all be happy little robots with no cash and control of all our income handed to the cloud while we watch whatever the algorithm serves us up to keep us from thinking about the awful reality in which we now live. Healthcare? That's all privatised now. Water? Privatised. Fresh air? Privatised. Your innermost thoughts and feelings? They are now property of The Company. Have a nice life!!
I have to say, Ticketmaster's move there surprised me. I didn't think it would actually happen.
Even in these unprecedented times it will be viewed by many as too much of an overstep. There's also the argument that if the vaccine is that widely available eventually, then you should immunize yourself if you're worried about getting it at a gig.
With lockdown a lot of this stuff was seen as changing your lifestyle/stop being so bloody selfish so that you don't become a carrier. Once the vaccine becomes easily obtainable by choice, surely that responsibility shifts firmly to whoever's sufficiently worried to get the fucking shot, nah?
Oh well. My least favourite kind of gigs, anyway. Not a lot of dinosaurs left that I want to see. Maybe it'll cause a bit of a trickle to local and smaller gigs?
It won't last for long, either. My own feeling on this story in particular aren't really that drastic or paranoia fuelled, to be honest. Big ticket business screens for virus in the immediate months after a global pandemic so they can get back to scamming millions quicker. It's just them being shrewd as fuck so they can get back to normal ASAP. A lot will follow suit, I suspect.
I would dearly love you to be right there about it going away like that. My brother said the same to me when I was frying his head about similar things a couple of months ago. As you say, I wouldn't be heading to those gigs anyway so fair enough but I see this trickling down to the QR code being scanned on the way into basically anywhere and the real new normal we are being fed will be the likes of this. I honestly and truly hope I am wrong but I don't see it. These massive corporations making the coin from the vaccines and control apps won't be willing to let it go so easily and will lobby like fuck to ensure it is indeed the new normal and life as we knew it is dead. Very depressing stuff.
https://www.lobbying.ie/return/59469/q4pr
^^ There will be an awful lot more of the likes of this going on as we speak, I reckon. This one is fairly innocuous looking on the face of it but shows who is lobbying for what.
Another in the long list of gobshites that needs a flogging...
https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/delay-christmas-until-january-for-normality-and-a-real-party-immunologist-says-1034808.html#aoh=16051563953518&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
Dear gawd......
He was on RTE a while back peddling the same. He seems like a complete extremist and there's a touch of the attention seeker to him.
Big Brother much...?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40080437.html
Our 'government' needs taking out... :abbath:
Fair amount of high horse cringe on a related post on the Irish Metal Heads fb page at the moment. Views like "I'm getting vaxxed asap cos I actually give a shit about people" and anybody who doesn't get vaxxed is stupid and selfish and inconsiderate and you have absolutely no reason not to yada yada yada.
Fucking hell like, take the vaccine if you want, but don't fucking belittle or scaremonger others into also doing so just cos you're a model law abiding citizen and you think "it's the right thing to do".
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 12, 2020, 08:11:51 AM
Big Brother much...?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40080437.html
Our 'government' needs taking out... :abbath:
It's all publicly available stuff though, not really much of a Big Brother vibe, no more than, say, keeping an account of what's being said in the papers.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 12, 2020, 08:11:51 AM
Big Brother much...?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40080437.html
Our 'government' needs taking out... :abbath:
They've been doing this for a long time. The records of who they keep an eye on and for what reason is obtainable by anybody through the Freedom of Information act, I just think most people don't know or bother with putting in a request to see it.
Its not surprising really. They're using publicly available information to see who they're popular and unpopular with. It's slimy, but it's above board and unsurprising as I mentioned.
That's it. It's slimy, but if loads of ordinary joes are practically stalking the Twitters of these people on a daily basis, it shouldn't come as a shock that the guys who run the country might have a nose at it.
Next you'll be telling me they read what these journalists write.
1984!
Quote from: Giggles on November 12, 2020, 10:01:02 AM
Fair amount of cringe on the Irish Metal Heads fb page
Trimmed that down for you there!
Forn scum! Banish them all from these lands I say... :abbath:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-lockdown-illegal-rave-december-19260924
Astfygl you need to get back on the horse here. I'm reading not even 2k deaths in Ireland since the start of this craic. 93% underlying conditions. 95% over the age of 80. Is this a massive pisstake or what's going on? We'll be a year into this soon and nobody seems to have any idea wtf is actually going on or where we are headed. I need a proper cynical breakdown of the situation please :abbath: :abbath:
Was just reading that all figures, including hospitalizations and intensive care numbers, are increasing steeply in Sweden.
What happens to our dna after we get tested? The HSE swabs a sample, where does that information go? Who processes it? A mate of mine got tested today, and asked these questions to yer wan who swabbed him. She shrugged her shoulders and said she hadn't a clue
It gets sent to the 5G people so that they can plan ahead how they're going to rewrite it once you update your phone.
5G
You've given me an idea for tonight 8)
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 13, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
5G
You've given me an idea for tonight 8)
:laugh:
Rewrite your psychic DNA a little more. Who knows, maybe this time things will fall back into some semblance of order :P
Covid-19 is supposed to be a disease, not the results of a PCR test.
PCR tests cannot be used to diagnose anything.
PCR tests have only ever been used to support a clinical diagnosis.
Labelling someone as a case who does not have the disease is 'crazy'.
Coronaviruses have been with humans since the beginning of human life so their presence is normal
A positive PCR does not mean that you are infected
The way we are diagnosing Covid-19 is at odds with everything taught in medical school
It's a criminal exaggeration to claim positive test results are disease cases
John Iaonnides' (the world's leading epidemiologist) paper was published by the WHO three weeks ago.It says that this disease is no more deadly than the seasonal flu. For people under 70 it is less deadly than the seasonal flu. Five out of ten thousand people infected with the actual disease may die of it.
"This is so little that there is no reason to do anything. "
"Not only is the lockdown nonsense, everything else is nonsense"
This is what the published science implies.
The pandemic has come to an end. It does not exist in Europe or America.
Anyone who says the measures are being undertaken for scientific reasons is lying.
We don't need any new reality, we need to go back to the old reality.
So many people have now been neglected by the health care system because of this - "it's inhuman"
Mask wearing is a cruelty to children and causes harm to people who need fresh air due to their condition.
It has never been shown that pre-symptomatic people will give the disease to others.
Regarding vaccines:
Scientific knowledge about immunity and vaccination is fuzzy. The role of antibodies and other immune mechanisms is not fully understood.
80-90% of people who came into contact with tis virus did not get ill - they have sufficient immunity, or background immunity
Probably due to lymphocytes, not antibodies
A string of studies now confirm this
Astra Zeneka is developing a gene based vaccine, already sold to Germany - it's "damned dangerous" The method may cause the white blood cells to attack healthy body cells. The severe side effects in the trials so far can be attributed to this over exuberant auto-immune response.
Reawakening the killer lymphocytes with the vaccine means exposure to the real virus may cause an excessive response
(The is what lead to the abandonment of the SARS vaccine in 2007, where every single one of the animals tested died on re-exposure to coronavirus)
The vaccine cannot be shown to be saving lives as the numbers of deaths are so low now that it is statistically not possible. If 5 out of 10,000 are dying, how are you going to pick up the signal of success? You can't - you will never reach statistical significance.
(Propaganda, of course, will not worry about that kind of detail)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2020, 08:59:45 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 13, 2020, 08:32:53 AM
5G
You've given me an idea for tonight 8)
:laugh:
Rewrite your psychic DNA a little more. Who knows, maybe this time things will fall back into some semblance of order :P
Don't choke on those chocolate covered sweetcorns lad.
Ah, poop! It's a euphemism for poop! There was me wondering what relevance these things had here:
(https://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/chocolate-corn.jpeg)
:laugh:
Quote from: Pedrito on November 12, 2020, 10:18:14 PM
Astfygl you need to get back on the horse here. I'm reading not even 2k deaths in Ireland since the start of this craic. 93% underlying conditions. 95% over the age of 80. Is this a massive pisstake or what's going on? We'll be a year into this soon and nobody seems to have any idea wtf is actually going on or where we are headed. I need a proper cynical breakdown of the situation please :abbath: :abbath:
All those figures hold up. It's enough to make me believe that if this was ever about a virus it certainly isn't any more. Not certain of the punchline but I think it's more a series of jokes within jokes than an actual grand masterplan. It has been done before though, the swine flu pandemic was entirely made up and composed of empty hype too, but the ubiquity of social media wasn't there to get everyone on board as it is nowadays. Ireland's excess deaths for the year are well within the normal range of fluctuation even allowing for the large spike in April, as all months since have been below the 5 year average. Stats on most other causes of death are also down, which gives rise to the notion that death has been re-branded in a lot of the cases here. The wanton destruction of the economy and fracturing of society is so obvious now that it can't have gone unnoticed or be purely down to incompetence. What are the conditions on the money that will be borrowed to finance this fistfuck to the nation? I don't know but I bet they will be eye watering. Just not for any of those inflicting it upon us such as politicians, scientists and civil servants. I've been stepping back from this a bit lately as I want to let other folks in the thread have a chance, but every time I hear of rising cases or deaths and I look into it, it doesn't hold up at all as they are defined by the PCR and not clinical symptoms which we have been over and over here already, so I won't get back into that. Really looking forward to the final death tallies for the year so this can be seen for what it is one way or the other. Have to give it til next May for the 12 month comparison though so it will be a bit yet.
So as with anything, follow the money and we start to understand what is going on a bit more. Small example being our NPHET member Luke O Neill. Keeps saying we can't escape this without a vaccine, and has funding from Pfizer, Glaxo and Wellcome Trust. Just so happens he will make a fortune if any vaccine comes through, but that definitely has no bearing on the nature of his advice to government, definitely not. He is but one example and I have already seen many other examples of NPHET members with conflicts of interest around the advice they are giving.
And here is only one tiny nation out of them all. 5 million people out of nearly 8 billion potential vaccine customers. That is before we get near the gravy train that is laid on for the tech companies, Google, Amazon, Netflix, Various Internet providers worldwide, Smartphone manufacturers, Testing labs worldwide, PPE manufacturers, Owners of Health Passport apps and fuck the list goes on and on and on, right down to the Youtube fear mongers who get their precious clicks frightening the shite out of everyone, the TV channels and print media taking the HSE money to run the ads every day, same with radio. It even trickles down to the likes of the perspex companies and all of the other thousands of little helpers who we are all in it together with at this time of extreme world danger.
All for a virus that has a 99.9% estimated survival rate. The money the money, but not for us plebs unfortunately.
I'll have a look at Sweden now and check how their figures (which the media, who are of course fully impartial) hold up. Back in a bit.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2020, 01:08:47 PM
Ah, poop! It's a euphemism for poop! There was me wondering what relevance these things had here:
(https://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/chocolate-corn.jpeg)
:laugh:
Man, I want a pack of those babies now. Ultimate munch material right there boyo. :laugh:
Contact tracing got in touch with me today and we talked about testing. After asking her several times "who analyses my test swab, where does the sample get sent to? Who processes it?" she replied with her not so great english "your GP".
Didn't know my GP had a lab handy in his office. Must be one of them new fold away jobbys.
So... anybody on here know where they get sent? Surely somebody is getting paid to carry out these tests?
Switch your phone off for a couple of days lad.
Quote from: Giggles on November 13, 2020, 06:50:54 PM
So... anybody on here know where they get sent? Surely somebody is getting paid to carry out these tests?
This country being what it is, probably Denis O'Brien.
Lol Denis O Brien. It's probably closer to the truth than we think! I've had my DNA harvested anyway. Sold my soul to go back to work. What a shitty price for my soul considering that work is the place I go to exchange the hours of my life for the cash I've already spent.
Anyway, was reading this and hoping someone (maybe Chris) could help explain this one for me. It seems to say the test picks up all sorts of stuff and it is being put about as evidence of such. My alternate take on that is that as it states it is a multiplex test, it is designed to pick up those other infections and will specify which are present but is that the case or am I misunderstanding the meaning of multiplex here? The other idea bouncing around my head is that the "non-specific interference" mentioned on the datasheet is what it seems to be saying and the results will be skewed by presence of any of the mentioned pathogens. Just looking for a bit of clarity and maybe a clue as to why the flu has disappeared.
Here's the source anyway for anyone who might have something to add:
https://www.creative-diagnostics.com/pdf/CD019RT.pdf
Here is a nice study about the efficacy of non-pharmaceutical interventions; the results of which even I was surprised by:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2029717
Published in the New England Journal of Medicine so definitely those tinfoil facemask wearing cunts as usual.
Lad, fuck off! It's Friday night... :laugh:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 13, 2020, 11:06:32 PM
Lad, fuck off! It's Friday night... :laugh:
I know. I'm gone to shit :(
Here! A bit of balance in the national media. Will wonders never cease?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40081700.html
Have to say I agree with every point made there, especially that shit McConkey saying we could never return to normal life. Have a think about that one for a bit and ask why that narrative is allowed on national radio with no counter argument and then ask why that prick is seen as the arbiter of our futures. Who elected this bollix? Yes that's right - No one. Have a look at his and Luke O' Neill's entirely unchallenged predictions which have been taken as gospel even after being proved entirely wrong by a factor of 60 and ask why they are not being vilified in the media instead of lauded? I don't know but mass incompetence doesn't cut it. Something along the lines of private interests being allowed to drive public policies seems closer to the crux of the matter. Their profit will be all of our loss.
It's creeping in....
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425
And fuck it here's a bit more for 90% of the world to ignore but fair play to this fella:
https://youtu.be/ZpOzHHJmy7g
.
Quote from: astfgyl on November 14, 2020, 06:42:48 PM
And fuck it here's a bit more for 90% of the world to ignore but fair play to this fella:
https://youtu.be/ZpOzHHJmy7g
Youtube deleted his video that you posted last month.
Good to see he's still at it. Have you seen any links for that panic paper he talks about?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/12/covid-infections-in-sweden-surge-dashing-hopes-of-herd-immunity
Sweden doesn't seem to be doing too well lads.
Meanwhile parts of Australia are having raves and rugby matches, after strict lockdowns.
Quote from: Nazgûl on November 15, 2020, 08:04:56 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/12/covid-infections-in-sweden-surge-dashing-hopes-of-herd-immunity
Sweden doesn't seem to be doing too well lads.
Meanwhile parts of Australia are having raves and rugby matches, after strict lockdowns.
Watch out for the spin. There are a lot of folks desperate for Sweden to do badly, and all of them have money to make from it. The media have been trying to demonise Sweden's approach for a long time. I meant to do it yesterday but I'll go hopping off the figures later and have a real look at how it is going for them. Even things like numbers in hospital have to be pulled apart these days. I had a look at some great info around the Irish hospital figures lately as well which I'll also get back to, but to say they are a bit misleading is a massive understatement. They are extremely misleading. Can't give the hour or so collating it all this minute though.
Also, Australia is being held up as the poster boy for lockdowns, when the actual story is that they are coming into their summer and the thing would naturally die back there just as it did here when we were all out doing what we liked for the summer. Amazing how the media is able to ignore that glaring fact that in opposing hemispheres, the seasons are also opposing. Simply amazing stuff.
Never thought I'd end up wishing I lived in Taiwan :laugh:
Well I used to think Canada would be cool...
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1327759386916368387.html
And a video here which will probably soon disappear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpfmKQz4FXc&ab_channel=ZN
Unfortunately the subtitles are auto and not the best, but they are not insurmountable
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 15, 2020, 02:43:35 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on November 14, 2020, 10:48:39 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 13, 2020, 11:06:32 PM
Lad, fuck off! It's Friday night... :laugh:
I know. I'm gone to shit :(
Yer alright... ;)
I actually ended up rounding off the night with a few mushies to get meself back right once I realised what day of the week it was!
Anyway, not like me to be banging the drum or anything but here is the White Paper authored and signed by several doctors and experts in Ireland. Look out for it being discredited in the media any day soon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/clouddrive/share/4zGBVyaA7KDmYfg0KhF3rJfEkJlVPskDJW5ySqQZuDj/jjySVTbdTiyeizFtwFo4QA?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&mgh=1
And I said I'd get back to Sweden and I will, but here is the worldometers page for deaths and infections. Note how the deaths do not track the scale of infections and in fact seem to be tapering off again while the infections graph goes up and up. Now if this thing had the IFR that we are being frightened into believing in the media it would stand to reason that the number of daily deaths should be increasing at a relative rate. But there it isn't.
I will go away and look at their hospital admissions and ICU occupancy now and attempt to compare it with whatever data I can find for previous years and hopefully for respiratory infections as that gives a much clearer picture of whether what is happening now can be considered to be in the normal range or not. Sweden is the elephant in the room and a real thorn in the side of all of the countries who chose to lock down, as the Swedish constitution does not allow for lockdown and therefore any measures must be by consent. This is the reason there are always stories of how wrong it is going there as it going well there is very bad business for lockdown proponents and to those who would profit from such. I'll be back.
Edit: Quick chart here not the greatest detail but shows what little point there is comparing raw figures for Sweden with the likes of Norway and Finland to show how badly they are doing as the media are so fond of pushing
https://twitter.com/markoftec/status/1328002225751412736/photo/1
Twitter not best source for anything but as a rapid indicator it works
Ok lads, watch all this clip, then tell me this is all still about a virus and tell me that it is only coincidence that Build Back Better is the slogan of Joe Biden, Boris Johnson and now Justin Trudeau. This is getting more and more obvious. Headed by the IMF and World Bank and facilitated by the UN, WEF and WHO, none of which are elected and yet are setting the agenda for the whole world in much the same way that the unelected NPHET are setting the bar for life here in Ireland. The opportunity for a reset indeed.. I dunno about the rest of you here but I can see this is no longer conspiracy theory, it is now conspiracy fact. I fucking knew something smelled off with all of this for a long time
QuoteConspiracy /kənˈspɪrəsi/ noun a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
i.e. mass forced vaccination. And although you may all think I'm being paranoid, just watch what happens next; mandatory vaccinations, digital health passport, cashless society, police states, increased surveillance, censorship of the internet and sooner than later our very own social credit system. Just fucking watch.
https://youtu.be/n2fp0Jeyjvw
Off with their heads..!!
You know that conspiracies built on the idea that "cashless" is inherently bad all stem from the verses in Revelations about "the mark of the Beast"?
Revelations 13:16-18
QuoteIt also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.
You're staking your bets with fundamentalists caught in the ultimate paradox of trying to resist "the end times" while also committed to the idea that these are the condition for the second coming. I was raised on this horseshit. You have the conspiracies of these nuts rolled up with that other favourite conspiracy of the right wing, that Communism is coming to get us. Oh look, top voted comment on that video:
QuoteHe's imposing communism. He should be arrested and tried.
I'm sure whatever's coming isn't going to be great, but there's still a helluva lot of absolute horseshit that needs to be systematically filtered out before you can even consider that you're getting anywhere near any heart, let alone truth, of the matter.
Oh I try to stay away from the biblical side of things because it can be made to fit in with too many different outcomes. The outcomes I see are the ones I mentioned up there ( mandatory vaccinations, digital health passport, cashless society, police states, increased surveillance, censorship of the internet and sooner than later our very own social credit system.). Who knows maybe some people will like it that way. There are too many red flags for me now and it all began when I saw an ad for the WEF's Great Reset. Then I started noticing how many seemingly unconnected people started using the Build Back Better slogan, then Time Magazine ran The Great Reset as it's cover story and now Trudeau is using all of the buzz words associated with what I've mentioned. Imran Khan is at the BBB as well. So no, not aligning with the Revelations crowd, just throwing out what I can see coming myself. It's unfortunate for me that I don't get to source the stuff from more mainstream places or that the mark of the beast crowd are all over the comments sections but I have to go with what I have to hand.
Edit: I think the cashless society is a bit of a dead end argument anyway as the paper money is only fiat currency anyway and isn't really worth the paper it's printed on when we get down to it.
I'm just saying that all the conspiracy theories around the Great Reset are the same tropes I've heard repeated since the 80s. In the 70s the same people thought Henry Kissinger was the actual antichrist. That letter from that archbishop to Trump is cut from exactly the same cloth. Ultimately, they all trace back to the one world government, pre WWII theories. Either people back then were enormously prescient, but at the same time terrible with dates, or else it's just drawing concrete specific patterns from vagueness, just like reading your horoscope and being persuaded it fits your week down to a tee.
An even more effective, plus easier to ship and store, vaccine from one of Pfizer's competitors:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/16/moderna-covid-vaccine-candidate-almost-95-effective-trials-show
What's the COVID19 denial take on this, I wonder? If it's all just a scam, why would Pfizer say their vaccine is only 90% effective and has to be stored at -80°C, leaving loads of margin for improvement from a competitor who comes in with 95% efficacity and standard refrigeration storage needs. Did Pfizer draw the shortest straw in the conspiratorial war room, allowed to announce first, but ultimately sacrificing the lion's share of the profit to be made? It will be (vaguely) interesting to see if and how this is confronted.
If Pfizer throw in some bonus Magic Mushies I'll gladly invest in their brand of poison. 8)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 15, 2020, 08:49:13 PM
I'm just saying that all the conspiracy theories around the Great Reset are the same tropes I've heard repeated since the 80s. In the 70s the same people thought Henry Kissinger was the actual antichrist. That letter from that archbishop to Trump is cut from exactly the same cloth. Ultimately, they all trace back to the one world government, pre WWII theories. Either people back then were enormously prescient, but at the same time terrible with dates, or else it's just drawing concrete specific patterns from vagueness, just like reading your horoscope and being persuaded it fits your week down to a tee.
The Great Reset as I see it: No one asked for it, no one was asked if they wanted it, many governments are in on it, many unelected individuals are behind it, they have all conspired to force the issue on us now that an extremely convenient pandemic is upon us. I've named the main drivers of it, all global organisations (UN, WHO, WEF, World Bank, IMF). So it definitely isn't a globalist conspiracy theory, it's a reality coming to pretty much everywhere from now. The horoscopes are a lot more ambiguous than this lark. None of this is by consent and I do see your point about the biblical stuff (but I'd have to believe in the bible to think that's anything) and that letter to Trump (of all people) doing the rounds wouldn't be how I see it either. As with all things it is way more obvious and my suspicion given how it was being sold as "In 2030 you will own nothing, have no privacy and you will be happy" (since removed from the WEF website, but I saw it with my own eyes and posted it in the are we fucked thread a few months ago) is that it is not going to be anything I want any part of and yet is going to be foisted upon us all before we know it. So something that is sold with that tagline and is in the works for a few years and has the sort of backing it does is a lot of red flags for a suspicious type such as myself but I'd be amazed if anyone wasn't suspicious reading that and seeing who is in on it. It's going to be fucking horrible. It's regrettable for me that I have to be lumped in with a lot of shitehawks for pointing this out but it isn't any secret now what the plan is.
My take on the pandemic thing is that since the definition changed about a decade ago from being about severity to being about geographical spread, some of these opportunists have been waiting for the right time and sure enough we had swine flu and bird flu which didn't take off but this one has taken off big time and now is the time to use lockdowns which were never a part of any national pandemic management plan to fucking destroy SME's and massively increase personal debt, leaving the world ripe for this new Stakeholder Capitalism and everyone will have fuck all choice only to take it seeing as all of these borrowings to cover the cost of lockdowns must be gotten from somewhere and to be sure it will be someone who wants certain conditions attached to the repayments as banks aren't there for the greater good at the end of the day.
Regarding the vaccine production, it would be very interesting indeed to see how the producers are testing the participants vs how the public are being tested. I bet they don't do the 45 cycles on those lads to demonstrate the efficacy. So all these producers are simply doing what they do and trying to cure a variant of a cold virus (never done in how many years?) and they have been paid so much already just for trying that it isn't the biggest deal if they aren't first to market, there are 8 billion customers and the companies will all do the finest. Sure whoever is last will just have to deal with the African or South American market instead of the US and European ones.
What do you make of the antibodies being found in Italian blood samples from asymptomatic patients last September and where was the collapse of civilisation then? So strange that. Puts me in mind of the study I linked ages ago which said that in 2018 winter season, Italy had it's worst death toll since WWII with the level of ILI (not confirmed as flu). I wonder how far back we can actually go to find the beginning of this? In fact 2018 season was a very bad one all over the northern hemisphere. So no one has to be a denier of covid to call out the absolute shite that is going on in the name of it when we could all get on with life right up to this March. Look at all the public health advisors who have received funding from vaccine manufacturers. That is their contribution I reckon, convincing us all that everyone needs the silver bullet and that doesn't need to be connected to the Great Reset opportunists who are also taking advantage of their big chance. It seems that just as was called out by Wolfgang Wodarg at the start, it is all of the little helpers we should be wary of and this virus is not as novel as we were led to believe. Fucking laughing now at that fucking wet market story!
The WEF stuff is sort of off the track of this thread anyway and I'll try to keep it more on-topic going on. I have some beauts for the conspiracy thread involving them without covid. but what they are predicting to come next which will be much much worse for us all in 2021. Horoscope: You will have bad luck this decade with acronyms
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/back-off-lockdowns-and-protect-vulnerable-say-irish-doctors-1.4404553
QuoteShare to Facebook
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Ireland should "back off" lockdowns and begin "intensive protection of the vulnerable" as part of an alternative Covid-19 strategy, according to a group of 21 Irish-based doctors.
Death rates, and pressure on hospital beds and intensive care units, are similar to previous years when respiratory diseases circulated, according to a "white paper" by the Covid-19 Ireland: A Scientific Approach group.
The signatories to the paper include doctors who have signed previous anti-lockdown letters. But it also includes Prof Jack Lambert, an infectious diseases expert at the Mater hospital in Dublin.
The group claims Covid-19 has been replaced as a driver of harm in society by the "official, misguided response" to the disease. And it adds that the "enormous and disproportionate cost" of lockdowns "grows worse by the day".
A "fixation" on the virus has led to "the worst cost-benefit of a public health intervention in living memory", the group claims, with lockdown "significantly undermining" elements of public health and increasing the gap between rich and poor.
Stop making sense.
Quote from: Airneanach on November 16, 2020, 05:44:32 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/back-off-lockdowns-and-protect-vulnerable-say-irish-doctors-1.4404553
QuoteShare to Facebook
Share to Twitter
Share to Email App
Ireland should "back off" lockdowns and begin "intensive protection of the vulnerable" as part of an alternative Covid-19 strategy, according to a group of 21 Irish-based doctors.
Death rates, and pressure on hospital beds and intensive care units, are similar to previous years when respiratory diseases circulated, according to a "white paper" by the Covid-19 Ireland: A Scientific Approach group.
The signatories to the paper include doctors who have signed previous anti-lockdown letters. But it also includes Prof Jack Lambert, an infectious diseases expert at the Mater hospital in Dublin.
The group claims Covid-19 has been replaced as a driver of harm in society by the "official, misguided response" to the disease. And it adds that the "enormous and disproportionate cost" of lockdowns "grows worse by the day".
A "fixation" on the virus has led to "the worst cost-benefit of a public health intervention in living memory", the group claims, with lockdown "significantly undermining" elements of public health and increasing the gap between rich and poor.
Stop making sense.
I linked that white paper there a few posts ago. It seems to be getting a bit of notice thank god but I doubt it will make any real difference to policy here any time soon. Interesting speech from Michael McNamara TD in the Dail where he reveals that a member of NPHET runs a PCR testing lab. Conflict of interest anyone? Always jobs for the boys in this fucking country
Oh and if anyone wants to know why cases are going down, have a look at the number of tests per day here and notice the sudden drop immediately at the implementation of level 5. Notice the level of tests drop sharply before there is any chance for the restrictions to make any difference as well..
Source: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/ireland?country=~IRL#how-many-tests-are-performed-each-day
Edit: Lads this just gets funnier and funnier. Look at this : https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED%3ANOTICE%3A506291-2020%3ATEXT%3AEN%3AHTML
"The MHRA urgently seeks an Artificial Intelligence (AI) software tool to process the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine Adverse Drug Reaction (ADRs) and ensure that no details from the ADRs' reaction text are missed."
I don't usually post in this thread but someone definitely pissed into the BMJ's cornflakes lately with all of the articles against the current policy. Unfortunately for us here, it pertains to the UK:
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4436?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage
Edit: another nugget around testing. unfortunately it's a fucking big nugget so only for the very hungry..
https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(20)30614-5/fulltext
TLDR: 44% of positives verified didn't hold up. That's a serious shot of needless quarantine there. Of course, the positivity rate has since increased, as we are into sick season but it shows up but one facet of the fucking diamond of a sham we are living in.
https://financialpost.com/financial-times/why-the-pfizer-ceo-selling-62-of-his-stock-the-same-day-as-the-vaccine-announcement-looks-bad
Quote from: Pedrito on November 17, 2020, 06:00:40 AM
https://financialpost.com/financial-times/why-the-pfizer-ceo-selling-62-of-his-stock-the-same-day-as-the-vaccine-announcement-looks-bad
A lot of that sort of thing to be found if we scratch the surface of who profits from this lark. It's not the worst I've seen, but a bit too clever to be nice.
For a change I'm going to put something mildly positive on here... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-mouthwash-can-kill-coronavirus-within-30-seconds-study-finds-12134289. I hope there is something to it.
And then I'm going to temper it somewhat with https://sophieehill.shinyapps.io/my-little-crony/
It's UK stuff but how I would love to see an Irish version of the same. NPHET member running PCR lab must be only scratching the surface really.
... But back to more positive news https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/resistance-at-cabinet-sees-plan-to-fine-outdoor-drinkers-shelved-1.4411551?localLinksEnabled=false+plan+to+fine+outdoor+drinkers+is+put+on+hold+by+Minister+for+Health
Yes, fuck you Donnelly. Also have a read of the quote with the asterisk where Glynn said we will have "hundreds of thousands" of cases by January if large numbers come home for christmas. These lads would really want to temper the predictions a bit.
Ah here we are finally. A randomised controlled trial on mask wearing. The Danish one that the journals wouldn't publish until now.
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817
Conclusion #1: Absolutely nothing in here makes me want to wear a mask outside of my regular S&M activities.
Conclusion #2: The study in itself seems to have been a waste of time as the results are meaningless.
Conclusion #3: Nothing in the results says anyone who wants to wear one shouldn't do it if it makes them feel better.
So now Sweden has crumbled and the prime minister there has released a video saying they need to Build Back Better. This is some sick shit and I said a few posts ago that it is not a conspiracy theory it is a conspiracy fact. Go on, someone argue the opposite.
Since you've been coming back to it so often in recent posts, decided to look it up. It's got some recent history anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_Back_Better
Yep, it's not a new term at all. All that was needed was the appropriate crisis to build back better from! No wonder The New Normal was coined immediately upon the outbreak of covid-19 and long before anyone knew anything about it in any meaningful way.
If the Big Black Boots was such a great idea, surely it could have been done by consent and without the artificially perpetuated crisis?
"In 2030 I will have no privacy, own nothing and be happy about it". Who in the name of any fucking god is going to want that? Enter stage 1, coronavirus, IFR of fuck all. Can't wait for stage 2. My spider sense tells me it's going to be way worse. Oh wait that wasn't my spider sense, it was the representative of the WEF who said it lately, as if he could predict the future...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRg5kiH9Is
...and the man himself, Mr Schwab...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DKRvS-C04o
Now ask ourselves where did this fella come from and why does he get to hold audience with all world leaders. Is it starting to look dicey yet?
Edit: I genuinely want to be wrong here, but if I am happier than ever having nothing, who gets to be happier having everything? I have never wanted to be wrong more about anything other than the idea that I'm not immortal.
"Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better"
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is/
QuoteAuthor's note: Some people have read this blog as my utopia or dream of the future. It is not. It is a scenario showing where we could be heading - for better and for worse. I wrote this piece to start a discussion about some of the pros and cons of the current technological development. When we are dealing with the future, it is not enough to work with reports. We should start discussions in many new ways. This is the intention with this piece.
That's not to dismiss your point, just the author's perspective, given in good or bad faith, who knows.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 18, 2020, 11:41:06 PM
"Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better"
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/shopping-i-can-t-really-remember-what-that-is/
QuoteAuthor's note: Some people have read this blog as my utopia or dream of the future. It is not. It is a scenario showing where we could be heading - for better and for worse. I wrote this piece to start a discussion about some of the pros and cons of the current technological development. When we are dealing with the future, it is not enough to work with reports. We should start discussions in many new ways. This is the intention with this piece.
That clarification is a load of shite. See my above edit for what I think of it. The clarification also only came after rakes of people were immediately resistant to the idea and has only come in the very recent past. Hardly anything to do with the fact they are selling something no-one wants to buy.
What do you make of the prediction of the next disaster which will make this one look like afternoon tea? Again, I want to feel like everyone else does about it, and I hope I'm not too old to enlist as one of the oppressors.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 18, 2020, 11:44:03 PM
That's not to dismiss your point, just the author's perspective, given in good or bad faith, who knows.
The good old pink warning bar when I go to reply! I just don't trust the whole thing but my whole red flag around conspiracy theories being unlikely was the fact there are too many mouths to keep shut but this one transcends that by every mouth being wide open all of a sudden.
I dunno, the "I have no privacy" part was an instant sign to me that, whatever it was about, there was something slightly deeper than "only to be taken at face value" going on. I mean, anything touching the private sphere is going to provoke a hostile reaction, despite our en masse embracing of the increasingly diminished privacy that goes hand in hand with the advances in communication we, generally speaking, clamor for.
Yeah I'm not against advances in technology for the greater good at all, but this one doesn't feel like it will be for that. I'm going to be straight up, this shit frightens me. Like I understand Google watching my every move but I had it put down to being for marketing purposes.
On your knees astfgyl.... :abbath:
https://youtu.be/iyig2VznZqk
Quote from: astfgyl on November 18, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
What do you make of the prediction of the next disaster which will make this one look like afternoon tea?
Now would be the time to start growing your own spuds.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 19, 2020, 07:43:47 AM
On your knees astfgyl.... :abbath:
https://youtu.be/iyig2VznZqk
Either that or join the Gardai!
Quote from: Bigmac on November 19, 2020, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on November 18, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
What do you make of the prediction of the next disaster which will make this one look like afternoon tea?
Now would be the time to start growing your own spuds.
That's the general conclusion I'm coming to as well.
Too late for the mink, and none of them infected.. although I doubt they were having a great time as it was..
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-mink-farms-in-talks-over-plan-to-cull-120-000-animals-1.4413660?localLinksEnabled=false+farms+cull+ordered+over+Covid-19+concerns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvYzf0MqObg&ab_channel=Dr.MarcoCaravaggio
Quote from: astfgyl on November 19, 2020, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on November 19, 2020, 09:56:05 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on November 18, 2020, 11:51:22 PM
What do you make of the prediction of the next disaster which will make this one look like afternoon tea?
Now would be the time to start growing your own spuds.
That's the general conclusion I'm coming to as well.
If you're interested in starting a bit of self sufficiency I could cover some questions you might have in the gardening thread.
Or start a 'New Normal/Build Back Better' thread to hijack their shite slogans, and turn it into a more productive means of distancing ourselves from it all.
Give a man a few spuds and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to grow spuds and he can turn off the fuckin' news.
Well said Mac.... :abbath:
Yeah I reckon it's high time to get something practical going over there in the gardening thread. An absolute beginner myself so I hope you have patience! Good stuff Mac
Quote from: astfgyl on November 19, 2020, 05:15:45 PM
Yeah I reckon it's high time to get something practical going over there in the gardening thread. An absolute beginner myself so I hope you have patience! Good stuff Mac
Yeah absolutely! Currently studying organic horticulture, so it's all good practice for me either way.
https://youtu.be/OWHLnDsOSwA
Quote from: Bigmac on November 19, 2020, 07:18:10 PM
https://youtu.be/OWHLnDsOSwA
Yeah sure fair enough I suppose, it's one of the most dangerous viruses mankind has ever faced. The response is fully justified and we are not living through another rise of fascism in the slightest. I'm sure whatever he was saying was so dangerous that they needed those guns.
I dunno man. I'd be tempted to hear out these Build Back Better guys. I'd certainly not be taking to the streets to defend the system and life we currently have.
If it's a fear of a socialist dystopia, where we own nothing and everyone is 'equal'...? Well I think the horse has already bolted on that one. Socialism/welfare state is already endemic in much of the world and you cannot take back what's already been given. The march to universal basic income has been underway for decades.
Im hardly 'free' now myself. Nominally middle class. Work my hole off in a typically middle class professional job. See my kids for an hour in the morning and evening. Do all the right things to pay my way and fit into my slot in the system. Recently tried to move up a tier, into the 'business' realm. Failed to break through. Not enough money to leave my caste. Hate my job but it feeds my kids and keeps our modest lifestyle afloat.
On the other side of things I see in our local town all the welfare class with wallets full of notes and driving the newest cars. I actually bought my 152 from a dealership who left the previous owners details in the glove box. Who was a serial benefits merchant from the town council estate.
Ireland is well on the way to economic 'equality' between all its citizens outside of the top 1%, whether you are a self respecting worker or benefits dependant.
We have a small family farm. Work hard at it. It's more or less unprofitable like most farms in these times. Needs subsidies to keep afloat and continue to produce food for people. The whole games fucked. Every place you look. And there's no turning back.
As I said I won't be out on the streets defending this shitshow and my little slot in the system.
All we can do is hope the new global socialism is significantly more comfortable for us than the last global effort.
Get yourself a criminal enterprise started up, it's great for topping up the auld welfare :)
Quote from: Grim Reality on November 20, 2020, 01:46:35 PM
I dunno man. I'd be tempted to hear out these Build Back Better guys. I'd certainly not be taking to the streets to defend the system and life we currently have.
If it's a fear of a socialist dystopia, where we own nothing and everyone is 'equal'...? Well I think the horse has already bolted on that one. Socialism/welfare state is already endemic in much of the world and you cannot take back what's already been given. The march to universal basic income has been underway for decades.
Im hardly 'free' now myself. Nominally middle class. Work my hole off in a typically middle class professional job. See my kids for an hour in the morning and evening. Do all the right things to pay my way and fit into my slot in the system. Recently tried to move up a tier, into the 'business' realm. Failed to break through. Not enough money to leave my caste. Hate my job but it feeds my kids and keeps our modest lifestyle afloat.
On the other side of things I see in our local town all the welfare class with wallets full of notes and driving the newest cars. I actually bought my 152 from a dealership who left the previous owners details in the glove box. Who was a serial benefits merchant from the town council estate.
Ireland is well on the way to economic 'equality' between all its citizens outside of the top 1%, whether you are a self respecting worker or benefits dependant.
We have a small family farm. Work hard at it. It's more or less unprofitable like most farms in these times. Needs subsidies to keep afloat and continue to produce food for people. The whole games fucked. Every place you look. And there's no turning back.
As I said I won't be out on the streets defending this shitshow and my little slot in the system.
All we can do is hope the new global socialism is significantly more comfortable for us than the last global effort.
Those are good points and I'd be inclined to think similar given the similarity to my own situation but my issue is a point I've made already; that if it was so good why was it brought in the way it was?
Here is an article which articulates it better than I do: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/507336-great-reset-world-economic-forum/
Quote from: Scáthach on November 20, 2020, 10:46:58 PM
Get yourself a criminal enterprise started up, it's great for topping up the auld welfare :)
This is the thing, people think you can actually afford new cars on the dole, it's the drug dealing, it's the drug dealing!
Quote from: astfgyl on November 21, 2020, 12:50:55 AM
Quote from: Grim Reality on November 20, 2020, 01:46:35 PM
I dunno man. I'd be tempted to hear out these Build Back Better guys. I'd certainly not be taking to the streets to defend the system and life we currently have.
If it's a fear of a socialist dystopia, where we own nothing and everyone is 'equal'...? Well I think the horse has already bolted on that one. Socialism/welfare state is already endemic in much of the world and you cannot take back what's already been given. The march to universal basic income has been underway for decades.
Im hardly 'free' now myself. Nominally middle class. Work my hole off in a typically middle class professional job. See my kids for an hour in the morning and evening. Do all the right things to pay my way and fit into my slot in the system. Recently tried to move up a tier, into the 'business' realm. Failed to break through. Not enough money to leave my caste. Hate my job but it feeds my kids and keeps our modest lifestyle afloat.
On the other side of things I see in our local town all the welfare class with wallets full of notes and driving the newest cars. I actually bought my 152 from a dealership who left the previous owners details in the glove box. Who was a serial benefits merchant from the town council estate.
Ireland is well on the way to economic 'equality' between all its citizens outside of the top 1%, whether you are a self respecting worker or benefits dependant.
We have a small family farm. Work hard at it. It's more or less unprofitable like most farms in these times. Needs subsidies to keep afloat and continue to produce food for people. The whole games fucked. Every place you look. And there's no turning back.
As I said I won't be out on the streets defending this shitshow and my little slot in the system.
All we can do is hope the new global socialism is significantly more comfortable for us than the last global effort.
Those are good points and I'd be inclined to think similar given the similarity to my own situation but my issue is a point I've made already; that if it was so good why was it brought in the way it was?
Here is an article which articulates it better than I do: https://www.rt.com/op-ed/507336-great-reset-world-economic-forum/
I'm open to alternative opinions in general, am suspicious of authority and tend to always question the accepted narrative, but I wouldn't be jumping in behind the guy linked in that article.
He wants to able to use cash, drive petrol cars and mingle in packed pubs. The tone is of someone opposed to change. A conservative. Nothing wrong with that per se. However looking over the broad sweep of history and the rise and fall of civilisations, change is the only constant.
Looking at things in perspective, the West has been in decline for well over a century. I am no scholar but personally would place its roots as far back as the Reformation (different topic, I know) with the break of the relationship between man and the divine and subsequent rise of individualism. Anyway, the western civilisation is crumbling, the rise of technology is accelerating and an unknown world awaits our children and children's children. I feel the whole thing is much bigger than the apparent plans of a few insignificant individuals like Schwab, when viewed in the greater context.
Its either exciting or frightening, or both. I don't think fighting against it does anything much ultimately. I must be an awful fatalist!
Or just a grim realist 8) :abbath:
Quote from: Grim Reality on November 21, 2020, 01:11:16 PM
Looking at things in perspective, the West has been in decline for well over a century. I am no scholar but personally would place its roots as far back as the Reformation (different topic, I know) with the break of the relationship between man and the divine and subsequent rise of individualism. Anyway, the western civilisation is crumbling, the rise of technology is accelerating and an unknown world awaits our children and children's children. I feel the whole thing is much bigger than the apparent plans of a few insignificant individuals like Schwab, when viewed in the greater context.
Its either exciting or frightening, or both. I don't think fighting against it does anything much ultimately. I must be an awful fatalist!
It'll be interesting to see how Oswald Spengler's views play out. Democracy does seem to be struggling as of late.
I happened to be watching a lecture about statistics today, from 2014 I think, and the polio vaccine clinical trials were raised as an example. Something I hadn't known (not really knowing anything substantial about the disease) is that 90% of those who contract it don't develop symptoms, and it's only around one or half a percent who develop the kind of debilitating paralysis we associate with it.
Edit: Those are the figures that were given in the lecture (to which they were secondary), here are the real figures according to wiki;
QuoteNo symptoms 72%
Minor illness 24%
Nonparalytic aseptic
meningitis 1–5%
Paralytic poliomyelitis 0.1–0.5%
— Spinal polio 79% of paralytic cases
— Bulbospinal polio 19% of paralytic cases
— Bulbar polio 2% of paralytic cases
How do they get tested for it? Genuinely curious. Actually now I think about it, how does someone catch polio? I also haven't ever really thought about it.
Well, it barely exists anymore thanks to vaccinations ;) But here's how:
https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/lab-testing/diagnostic.html
Something I read a while back said that the only polio left was vaccine induced but there is so much anti-Gates stuff out there that is no surprise and must be taken with a pinch of salt until I remmber the source. What is interesting there is where PCR comes into the process and what it is used for. Not diagnosis, strangely.
Apparently the covid vaccines are all about 95% effective against severe disease, but about 95% of folks don't get severe disease anyway so tough to swallow that one! (numbers not exact there)
Isn't it amazing that all of the producers got their products ready within 3 weeks of each other?
Polio has been on the rise in Pakistan the last few years because the CIA were using polio vaccines as a cover to test people's DNA to find relatives of bin Laden. This created a fear of government issued vaccines in the country and an anti vax movement.
So far the only justifiable anti vax arguement I've heard.
Quote from: astfgyl on November 23, 2020, 11:45:29 PM
Something I read a while back said that the only polio left was vaccine induced but there is so much anti-Gates stuff out there that is no surprise and must be taken with a pinch of salt until I remmber the source. What is interesting there is where PCR comes into the process and what it is used for. Not diagnosis, strangely.
What was interesting to me, tbh, was that COVID19 quite clearly isn't at all the first disease to be confronted where the majority of people who contract it don't display symptoms, contrary to so many people calling it a "non-disease" for this very reason. I was then wondering if, given the fraction of a percentage of critical cases, some would say, retrospectively, that it wasn't worth vaccinating against.
I have a very justifiable anti vax argument here: I don't want it.
I don't want to be told I need something by the very people who will profit from it. I've gone this far without getting covid in spite of working in a pharmacy, meeting thousands of people and rubbing my face all day every day. I also had no vaccine at the height of the epidemic and got nothing, not even a cold. Too much money and control in this for me to want it. Also developed way too quick and skimping on all safety measures vs every other vaccine ever except for Pandemrix (lol that went well and was really needed wasn't it?) and now lo and behold something that is the same as the flu requires a digital pass to do anything. Yeah I'll be giving it a wide berth considering the mortality rate for my age is negligible and the long covid marketing push isn't enough to put the shits up me to take it either. Anyway if it works no one who took it should give a fuck if I had it or not.
BUT: It's a free world (me bollix) and anyone who wants vaccinating against anything should be fully free to buy into it. I had a glass of water today and it turns out it's also going to be 99.999999999999% effective to prevent me from developing Laughing Death and also has the added bonus of 99.9% efficacy against car crashes for 6 months as well as 99.9% efficacy against the sky falling in. Great stuff.
I have no argument against you taking it though, is that fair enough?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 23, 2020, 11:53:51 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on November 23, 2020, 11:45:29 PM
Something I read a while back said that the only polio left was vaccine induced but there is so much anti-Gates stuff out there that is no surprise and must be taken with a pinch of salt until I remember the source. What is interesting there is where PCR comes into the process and what it is used for. Not diagnosis, strangely.
What was interesting to me, tbh, was that COVID19 quite clearly isn't at all the first disease to be confronted where the majority of people who contract it don't display symptoms, contrary to so many people calling it a "non-disease" for this very reason. I was then wondering if, given the fraction of a percentage of critical cases, some would say, retrospectively, that it wasn't worth vaccinating against.
Good point and I did sort of cop that was what you meant. It's back to the typhoid mary argument again. I keep saying it, anyone who wants it should have it and I have no issue. I'd be personally happy enough to take my chances with the 99.9% efficacy of the glass of water. Will you take the covid vaccine after the obviously rushed development?
Here I'll edit this in rather than a new reply but just look at this: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/bill-gates-pandemic-covid-coronavirus-work-travel-business-digital?
Talk about fodder for theorists..
I don't actually believe there is any pandemic to speak of any more. There are measures doing damage but fuck all to do with whatever virus there may or may not have been. All the shit going on now is just too conveniently convenient for my questioning nature.
Heroes one and all.....
https://youtu.be/IsaTKVqnwvE
You can't even smash someone's face in nowadays because of fookin Covid..... :abbath:
https://www.rt.com/news/507564-france-coronavirus-lockdown-police/
I work in the physiotherapy department of a hospital, we do all the respiratory care in there. Covid is horrific. Get a fucking vaccine
No doubt you are a hero in these trying times.
But, may I ask, how many people of the 4.5 million in this country have you guys treated?
Cancer is horrific. Car crashes are horrific. The Democrats are horrific. The new Six Feet Under is horrific.....
Does the world stop for any of those..?
Nope......
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 24, 2020, 11:46:41 AM
Cancer is horrific. Car crashes are horrific. The Democrats are horrific. The new Six Feet Under is horrific.....
Does the world stop for any of those..?
Nope......
How in the name of fuck is any of those examples relevant to a respiratory disease.
I'll take a vaccine when if and when I feel it is safe to do so. Not by some shill government(s) tell me that I have to take it.
Quickest vaccine production in history? Pharma companies coming up with the goods a couple of weeks apart? Nah thanks.....
You can't vaccinate against any of those, but you can for covid
McLove and the Black Shepherd are working on one for SFU.... :laugh:
I will contribute funding for that one directly
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 24, 2020, 11:58:01 AM
Quickest vaccine production in history?
I mean, rationally speaking, it would have been surprising if it had been anything
other than the quickest vaccine production in history. It was also:
- quickest isolation and reconstruction of a novel virus in history
- fastest global sharing of data on a novel virus in history
- quickest response to make all research on the subject fully open access both within and without of the research community in history
- worked on simultaneously by more researchers than any other viral question in history
...and so on and so forth.
Amazing! Still won't be taking it......
I'm not trying to get you to take it, that's a whole other question - of very little importance to me - to that of whether there is anything suspect about it being the fastest developed vaccine in history. There isn't. It's the most logical outcome given the conditions.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 24, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
I'm not trying to get you to take it, that's a whole other question - of very little importance to me - to that of whether there is anything suspect about it being the fastest developed vaccine in history. There isn't. It's the most logical outcome given the conditions.
Ah I know man and bravo to all those who worked tirelessly on this over the last 9 months.
It is a godsend for those who need/want it I have to admit.
Anything that speeds up getting back to pints and all that. :abbath:
I thought ye were taking about the TV show six feet under ffs
:laugh:
Never even seen it....
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 24, 2020, 12:33:38 PM
- quickest isolation and reconstruction of a novel virus in history
https://drtomcowan.com/only-poisoned-monkey-kidney-cells-grew-the-virus/
QuoteFirst, in the section titled "Whole Genome Sequencing," we find that rather than having isolated the virus and sequencing the genome from end to end, that the CDC "designed 37 pairs of nested PCRs spanning the genome on the basis of the coronavirus reference sequence (GenBank accession no. NC045512)."
To me, this computer-generation step constitutes scientific fraud. Here is an equivalency: A group of researchers claim to have found a unicorn because they found a piece of a hoof, a hair from a tail, and a snippet of a horn. They then add that information into a computer and program it to re-create the unicorn, and they then claim this computer re-creation is the real unicorn. Of course, they had never actually seen a unicorn so could not possibly have examined its genetic makeup to compare their samples with the actual unicorn's hair, hooves and horn.
Is this true?
So, this guy is saying that the CDC created a virus, but then later also says that the virus they supposedly created was incapable (by his interpretation) of infecting human cells...? If the CDC were going to just make shit up, wouldn't they make up shit that behaved as they wanted?
Or is it just that this guy doesn't actually understand the science he's reading? Why not look up someone explaining how it was sequenced rather than someone looking for conspiracy.
I dunno what he is looking for I was just wondering if that statement was true or not? I have seen a lot of things saying that there is no pure isolate of the virus anywhere and Reiner Fuellmich is using that bit of info as a cornerstone of his legal argument. So as someone a lot better versed than myself, do you reckon there is anything in that?
I have another one I asked a bit back but it got drowned out and it was about this: fuck I'll have to go back for the link, but what does non-specific viral interference mean when relating to a multiplex assay? A bit vague there to be fair, I'll dig out the link but it's a good few pages back
I'm not an expert in virology, at all, but I have confidence in the tens of thousands of researchers in the world who are, some of whom I work with. What did the virologist on our team - whose principal job is to generate and sequence the viruses we use in our research - say about this covid virus? That we should have been running PCR tests in our lab when they were most needed, not that the whole thing was bullshit. So, I trust her knowledge and faith, and that of the collected virology community, who have advanced light years in the last couple of decades.
I'm sure there are virologists who have made videos explaining how the sequencing is actually done, if you do a simple YouTube search: how was sars-cov-2 sequenced?
Tbh, I will look it up but I expect a lot of it to fly over my head. Then I'd be diving into who funds their research and what grants they have had in the past and from whom. I guess that is a lot of the problem for me, that I have no faith in the salesmen on the NPHET, none in the government and also none in the pharma companies who have a bit of previous to say the least. I feel with these lads that I am stuck taking the word of known liars. I naturally go the other way then, down the road of deep suspicion of the motives. It seems to me that all of these vaccine companies coming up with the goods at the same time is a desperate rush to get the things out to everyone before any more gets known about it and the fear dissipates or the lockdown justification wears any thinner. And I could accept all that too if only I could be left alone with all the other folks who don't want vaccinating. The idea of it being mandated even by proxy is anathema to me but if it was voluntary with no social consequences I'd probably be all for it. Not making the vaccine mandatory would kill 90% of the conspiracy arguments so lets hope that is the case. Like I don't get the flu jab but it doesn't affect my ability to go to work or go to gigs or anything, why not keep it that way as flu fucks up old folks bad as well but the choice is still a thing and I should decide what shit I put in my own body. I do put lots of bad shit in there by choice as well btw
Bit of a tangent there but just explaining why I give so much time not believing in the apparent virtue of it all. Still trying to be careful where I get the info and try to pick the brains of anyone who might have more of an idea than myself. Take the PCR for example, the wording around it being false positive wasn't exactly the way to look at it, and saying it wasn't fit for purpose wasn't exactly it either, but it took me a good while to get around to the perspective I have on it now which is that it can be made more or less sensitive and the results are open to interpretation rather than being any definite yes you have it or no you don't have it. The more I ended up reading the more I got the idea that there is nothing inherently wrong with it for many applications. Can't find that thing about the multiplex assays either but it's definitely in this thread somewhere and I have two ideas as to the meaning of what it says but dunno which it is. It's around non-specific viral interference anyway and surely it's in my browser history somewhere
Presume that no one here has the knowledge to answer a question about multiplex assay viral interference. I just know someone who's talking shit when I see one (meaning that Doc Cowan, btw). Aithníonn cíaróg cíaróg eile and all that ;)
Macron just delivered an update on measures, nothing surprising, but the official word is that vaccinations - the first available expected end of December - will not be made obligatory. Remains to be seen if the government holding its hand back will be merely a formality if airlines, event organizers, etc., are given green light to demand proof of vaccination for service access.
And an article on the Oxford vaccine (by one of its researchers):
https://theconversation.com/why-the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-is-now-a-global-game-changer-150660
Quote from: astfgyl on November 24, 2020, 04:00:36 PM
Like I don't get the flu jab but it doesn't affect my ability to go to work or go to gigs or anything, why not keep it that way as flu fucks up old folks bad as well but the choice is still a thing and I should decide what shit I put in my own body.
This. And what about people who've already had the virus, are they being expected to get it too?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 24, 2020, 07:29:05 PM
Presume that no one here has the knowledge to answer a question about multiplex assay viral interference. I just know someone who's talking shit when I see one (meaning that Doc Cowan, btw). Aithníonn cíaróg cíaróg eile and all that ;)
Macron just delivered an update on measures, nothing surprising, but the official word is that vaccinations - the first available expected end of December - will not be made obligatory. Remains to be seen if the government holding its hand back will be merely a formality if airlines, event organizers, etc., are given green light to demand proof of vaccination for service access.
Being fair, you were the only person I thought might be able to explain it to me in any fashion. Look if this shit isn't mandated (including by proxy) I welcome it with open arms. If it involves me having to scan some QR code on the phone I don't even own to get a loaf of bread or go for a pint, I'm fully against it. It's really as simple as that for me around the vaccines. I am pro-choice. If it isn't mandated then I'd go so far as to say fair play to the producers and the money that will be made (I read the article so I have to leave the Oxford lads out of this).
I've thought of an argument against the airlines etc and the vaccine pass anyway. They maintained from very early and very publicly that they could provide a fully safe environment for travel in the absence of any vaccine so that can be the rock they perish on and there will surely be some company willing to exploit the loophole of the folks who don't want it... maybe... hopefully
Quote from: Giggles on November 24, 2020, 08:48:19 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on November 24, 2020, 04:00:36 PM
Like I don't get the flu jab but it doesn't affect my ability to go to work or go to gigs or anything, why not keep it that way as flu fucks up old folks bad as well but the choice is still a thing and I should decide what shit I put in my own body.
This. And what about people who've already had the virus, are they being expected to get it too?
Indeed, there is very little evidence of any vaccine being in any way more effective than previous infection and the immunity it confers. When I was swabbed, I was hoping it would be positive for this very reason and I actually had mild symptoms at the time.
Remember; this fella will make a fortune from the vaccines: https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1124/1180132-covid19-coronavirus-ireland/
I dare anyone to justify this absolutely shameless scaremongering and to believe a word he ever says again after reading this. This is why we are where we are, because of the likes of this. Now have a serious think about the fact that he is part of the NPHET, don't just let the thoughts pass too easy or anything.
Edit: Here, most of you won't click the link so I'll quote the highlights:
QuoteThey should bring their own dinnerware
Have a single person do all the serving to keep numbers down in the kitchen
Stagger people sitting around the table to avoid people sitting opposite each other
Have good ventilation
Do not to spend too long in each other's company
"You can't be having ten hours in a stuffy room together playing family games," Prof O'Neill said.
Edit: hang on I forgot this beaut: Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, Prof O'Neill said that children should "hug their grandparents briefly outdoors, while wearing a mask".
Now lads, apart from one particular user I have in my mind, who would do this to themselves? I can't think of anything as demeaning as going along with the likes of this.
Really let this one sink in when even the WHO has published articles saying it's about the same level as flu we are dealing with. Every time I try to think that this is all above board I see a bit more of this absolute madness and where the fuck are the media calling it out? yeah
Really read the article though, don't just take my quotes as the full extent of the horror. Take into account that this madness of the highest order is what is acceptable for publishing on the website of our national broadcaster. The same absolute shitehawks who were hugging each other up in RTE.
I don't know if it's nationwide (yet), but certainly in some regions of Spain they're declaring 6 max to a house for Christmas. In France, they really only had recommendations, and I was only half listening to that lukewarm tool's speech, but I think maybe something along the lines of staggering seatings was suggested, and airing once an hour, but as long as it's just recommendations, grand. Seems that in Spain it's going beyond just that...some of the resident spic-micks can confirm.
it's like a spoof but it's actually real. wow. And spic-micks lol fuck sake
I would love to see a video of someone actually following this "advice" in their houses. (apart from the lad I mentioned)
Edit: the more I read the more preposterous it gets:
Quote"Stick grandpa by the window and have a good breeze blowing through, and this will really decrease the risk, so it is possible to have a Christmas together," Prof O'Neill said.
Only that the wife would be angry I'd be screaming or howling like a wolf out the front door
Meant as a term of endearment; sure my young fella is a veritable chic spic-mick! :laugh:
Most of what is wrong with the modern world can be summed up by the idea of anyone thinking that term is anything other than amusing
Spic Mick never heard that one before :laugh: :laugh:
Would yer granda not be prone to catching a cold if he's sat beside a draughty window? And isn't covid an airbourne virus? And doesn't heat move from warm areas to cold areas, meaning that everybody's breath could potentially flow across our dear grandpa?
Oh wait nevermind I forgot we're eating dinner with the masks on. Be grand sure.
QuoteProf O'Neill acknowledged that there "are scare stories out there about vaccines", but said "when all the health agencies in the world are saying to use this vaccine, and provided the regulators are happy, and they get the seal of approval then everyone should line up and get it".
He acknowledges the scare stories, but does he acknowledge the stone cold FACT that hundreds of kids got permanent brain damage from the Pandemrix vaccine? Were the regulators happy back then too?
The regulators were delighted with their 30 pieces of silver as always
Here is a short video about our pal Luke O' Neill:
https://youtu.be/9IcwLxCo2pM
Listen to this fucking prick
Quote from: astfgyl on November 25, 2020, 01:25:33 AM
The regulators were delighted with their 30 pieces of silver as always
Here is a short video about our pal Luke O' Neill:
https://youtu.be/9IcwLxCo2pM
Listen to this fucking prick
He has the dead eyes of a corporate funded shark.
He'll get more than a flogging if I gets me ands on him. The scaremongering shitstain.
Interesting discussion on here regarding the covid vaccine. While I am broadly sympathetic to the views of Astfygl et al across the various threads on here (trump, blm, pc brigade etc) I feel we need to apply a bit of Occams Razor when thinking about this vaccine.
While there is definitely merit in looking into the issues around fast production, big pharma profits, advisors with conflicts of interest etc, you have to stop and ask yourself, why would I not get the vaccine?
Is it to feel satisfied that you are winning a little battle against the system, that you know what they are about and won't be fooled? Or is it genuine fear that it will cause you health problems?
On the first one, I think I alluded to in a previous post as a fatalist (or grim realist), I feel the system has been fucked for a long time and for longer than forever the rich/strong (governments/corporations) have been exploiting the weak/poor (us/the multitude). Its nothing new and will never change and piping up 'I know what you're up to!' is pissing in the wind. You will still continue to be dominated and exploited in different ways even if you don't get this damn vaccine. Going full Varg is maybe an option if you really feel strongly about it.
On the idea that it is untested and may do health damage. Well I choose to take it at face value that science has done its honourable best here. I don't think the nerds in the labs are the ones sitting around the boardroom table. I don't buy the panic and fear that this is a deadly virus. But it does kill off some and if I can play a part in reducing its transmission then I will. My parents are old. They are healthy enough but id rather not pass it to them if I could. I knew (half knew, a friend of a friend) a guy who got covid back in march. Around my age late 30s. He was on a ventilator for weeks and was 50/50 for much of it. Now the guy is/was the size of a house and a roaring alcoholic to boot, but he has a wife and kids who were called to expect the worst a couple of times. Thankfully he pulled through. If I could play a bit of a part in helping guys like that stick around for a few more decades then I will. I'll get the damn vaccine.
I'm healthy enough myself. But I like a drink and a smoke. Maybe if I caught covid it would hit me like a ton of bricks and id be fucked up for weeks? I'd prefer to get a vaccine with an unbelievably low risk of side effects.
Despite the fear driven government agenda, despite the misinformation, despite the shady business dealings and profits.
I think having scepticism around the whole shitshow is healthy. But it doesn't have to mean a black or white, polarised response in people, so typical of today's world.
And I know you have a nuanced view Astfygl, that's not aimed at you or anyone here in particular.
RE the fastest development of a vaccine thing, I mean.........it logically had to happen at some point. And now is the most recent point in history, with the most advancement of tech that would facilitate that happening. I think it's overplayed, even if I understand why it would make someone suspicious.
Quote from: Grim Reality on November 25, 2020, 01:51:38 PM
Interesting discussion on here regarding the covid vaccine. While I am broadly sympathetic to the views of Astfygl et al across the various threads on here (trump, blm, pc brigade etc) I feel we need to apply a bit of Occams Razor when thinking about this vaccine.
While there is definitely merit in looking into the issues around fast production, big pharma profits, advisors with conflicts of interest etc, you have to stop and ask yourself, why would I not get the vaccine?
Is it to feel satisfied that you are winning a little battle against the system, that you know what they are about and won't be fooled? Or is it genuine fear that it will cause you health problems?
On the first one, I think I alluded to in a previous post as a fatalist (or grim realist), I feel the system has been fucked for a long time and for longer than forever the rich/strong (governments/corporations) have been exploiting the weak/poor (us/the multitude). Its nothing new and will never change and piping up 'I know what you're up to!' is pissing in the wind. You will still continue to be dominated and exploited in different ways even if you don't get this damn vaccine. Going full Varg is maybe an option if you really feel strongly about it.
On the idea that it is untested and may do health damage. Well I choose to take it at face value that science has done its honourable best here. I don't think the nerds in the labs are the ones sitting around the boardroom table. I don't buy the panic and fear that this is a deadly virus. But it does kill off some and if I can play a part in reducing its transmission then I will. My parents are old. They are healthy enough but id rather not pass it to them if I could. I knew (half knew, a friend of a friend) a guy who got covid back in march. Around my age late 30s. He was on a ventilator for weeks and was 50/50 for much of it. Now the guy is/was the size of a house and a roaring alcoholic to boot, but he has a wife and kids who were called to expect the worst a couple of times. Thankfully he pulled through. If I could play a bit of a part in helping guys like that stick around for a few more decades then I will. I'll get the damn vaccine.
I'm healthy enough myself. But I like a drink and a smoke. Maybe if I caught covid it would hit me like a ton of bricks and id be fucked up for weeks? I'd prefer to get a vaccine with an unbelievably low risk of side effects.
Despite the fear driven government agenda, despite the misinformation, despite the shady business dealings and profits.
I think having scepticism around the whole shitshow is healthy. But it doesn't have to mean a black or white, polarised response in people, so typical of today's world.
And I know you have a nuanced view Astfygl, that's not aimed at you or anyone here in particular.
No bother, I'm not taking it personally. It isn't as if you are wishing I get it and it fucks up my lungs or anything! My take on the vaccine is that it should be my own choice what I put into my body for better or worse. I agree with your points that the current system hasn't worked for almost all of us too. I don't really have the answer for what will work but I have a feeling that putting ever more control into the hands of giant faceless corporations won't improve things at all. It's like the electric car thing, it's all grand in theory for those who can afford one but a lot won't be able, me included.
Regarding the mate of yours who was ventilated, that in itself might have a lot to do with why he got such a bad time from it, and 90% less patients are now being ventilated with what has been learned in the meantime. Treatments are improving, the IFR is now 10 times less than was originally thought and there will be vaccines available for those most at risk. Sure I could be fucked up if I got it, but it's far more likely I would have something like a common cold than the extreme outcome. This whole notion of taking it away from being about oneself is dangerous territory as I see it. Like no one was ever made feel bad for getting the flu or not getting the vaccine, which I don't in spite of being years working in a pharmacy. Also no one ever tried to say I should buy into all sorts of ridiculous measures to avoid getting a cold in case I give it to a pensioner and they die from it. I have worked with around 30 different locum pharmacists due to lack of a permanent one for over a year, and not one of them gets the flu jab but they are happy enough to bang it out to everyone else. That tells its' own story as to what they think of it. I think everything has gone ridiculous, logic is gone out the window and I just don't buy it. Anyone feels vulnerable by all means have the thing I'm not against anyone putting what they like into their bodies in the slightest and in spite of my stance here on this one, I'm not anti vaccination either. it's the whole "save lives, stop living" that I disagree with and I believe with what we now know that everything should be open as normal and our lives lived as we wish within our invisible cages, which I accept are a thing and true freedom is an illusion if we get down to it.
Quote from: astfgyl on November 25, 2020, 01:25:33 AM
Here is a short video about our pal Luke O' Neill
https://twitter.com/fionamflanagan1/status/1331001676262764546
Have to listen to that insufferable cunt on the radio everyday on newstalk because the lads have it on in work. He is also pushing a wrist band that can't be taken off for anyone who get's the vaccine and he said people will give out about civil liberties but they should wear it as a badge of honour :laugh:
Dr Tony HulaHoop predicting that 25% of the Irish population would be infected with the dreaded Swine Flu back in 2009.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-20104779.html
Fookin mong!
https://www.euronews.com/2020/11/25/bodies-of-culled-mink-resurface-at-a-mass-grave-in-western-denmark
Metal as fook :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
Rise rise rise my friends rise
Spirits rising from their grave
Burning shadows in the dead of night
Icy fingers all over my hand
Try to make me understand
"Finally we have returned all of us"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8SX-CFkPjI
https://www.thejournal.ie/minks-rise-from-mass-grave-in-denmark-5278662-Nov2020/?section=comment#comments
Down with pesky Biden supporting minks... :abbath:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 25, 2020, 06:24:36 PM
Dr Tony HulaHoop predicting that 25% of the Irish population would be infected with the dreaded Swine Flu back in 2009.....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-20104779.html
"Could" infect 25% of the population.
Fookin mong!
Meanwhile in Chainah....
https://youtu.be/z4iym_bGgMo
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 27, 2020, 11:44:19 AM
Meanwhile in Chainah....
https://youtu.be/z4iym_bGgMo
Saw in-depth coverage of that on RTE right after they did the Prime Time episode covering the Europe-wide protests against restrictions such as the ones in Toulouse, Paris, Berlin, Naples etc.
Apparently it's all the fault of the Far Right.
The top voted comment on that video is quite amusing:
QuoteThe governments are acting like they own the people. We can't allow these control freaks to maintain control over our countries.
I guess this guy, and the one and a half thousand people who apparently thing this is a praise worthy comment, don't really know much about the politics of China! :laugh:
Yeah tbf, that looks like my general impression of a regular enough day over there. Brother in law lives there and often regales me with tales of how ridiculous the whole thing is. The craziest thing about it though is that he also maintains he has a far better life in terms of what he can earn and have there than he had here or in the US. He says that when one earns a few bob here it's gone on necessities and ever increasing bills while over there if the job is half decent, that people have plenty of spare coin to save or purchase luxuries. That likely applies only to a certain class though, or foreigners.
https://twitter.com/eileeniorio/status/1332739440368906244
Watch this clip and then defend it.
Go on.
And now watch this:
https://youtu.be/mfo7nbX2NR8
And then ask yourself if you still believe any of this is about a virus, even if it truly was at any stage.
Then slap yourself repeatedly until you wake up.
Careful not to kill any more of those precious grannies lads:
https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-ap-top-news-understanding-the-outbreak-hunger-international-news-5cbee9693c52728a3808f4e7b4965cbd
Of course the virus is so deadly that this sort of collateral is fine, right?
That is a serious argument alright. One of the few from the tack you've been taking...because if you step back and think about it, you'll notice that none of the "muH freEdumS!" anti-types are talking about it either.
Quote from: astfgyl on November 29, 2020, 12:39:05 AM
https://twitter.com/eileeniorio/status/1332739440368906244
Watch this clip and then defend it.
Go on.
And now watch this:
https://youtu.be/mfo7nbX2NR8
And then ask yourself if you still believe any of this is about a virus, even if it truly was at any stage.
Then slap yourself repeatedly until you wake up.
That so called "toy show" was an abomination. It was basically an exercise in conditioning .
That cunt Tubridy looking earnestly into the camera telling us about how anxious and worried children are about the virus and then proceeding to bring up the fucking virus at every possible opportunity .
In the first, what I assume was meant to be comedy, section a young ladeen came out dressed as a garda, introduced as the "covid officer".
the last statement made by Tubridy at the end of this, what I assume was meant to be a skit, was something along the lines of, if you don't follow the guidelines "the gards will come and take you away for ever". Very reassuring.
This was followed by too many covid references to mention until the section linked above came on with the young girleen administering the vaccine to a teddy. Delightful.
This was again followed by too many covid references to mention which led up to cunthooks Tubridy saying to a young ladeen that " if you don't stay two metres away from me everyone will die." Wonderful.
Fuck you RTE, fuck you very much.
Lol, you'd think they were up to something, wouldn't you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IncAHDTRG48&ab_channel=Morgoth%27sReview
https://twitter.com/coulmont/status/1334100923992453121
Nifty day-by-day animation of daily death count in France covering 2001 - 2020 (so far). The huge peak in August 2003 was from the devastating European heatwave that year. In other words, the count you're seeing is totally independent of cause of death.
I can't watch that on the shitty laptop I'm on here. It won't play video at all. Is there much in this year vs others?
Actually of course there will be a spike for the epidemic I mean since the summer how's it looking?
Quote from: astfgyl on December 02, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
I can't watch that on the shitty laptop I'm on here. It won't play video at all. Is there much in this year vs others?
Actually of course there will be a spike for the epidemic I mean since the summer how's it looking?
Since the summer it's starting to rise again over the normal threshold again. Not as bad as March and April but on an upward curve.
So England rolling out vaccinations next week. Lads gigs might actually be a thing again. Fucking GIGS
Quote from: astfgyl on December 02, 2020, 04:44:30 PM
Is there much in this year vs others?
Actually of course there will be a spike for the epidemic I mean since the summer how's it looking?
Since beginning of November, it's almost 1000 per day above any of the previous years, with daily death rates more similar to January in the very worst flu year (2016). It makes for a very clear margin. Actually, I can just give you a screen shot of the final frame:
(https://i.ibb.co/Jjx8qDM/mortalit-France-20012020.png)
I'm really surprised at that figure. I would have expected it to be somewhere around half of that or even less, but not the zero of the no brigade either. Those lockdowns really cause even more collateral damage than even I suspected!
Quote from: astfgyl on December 02, 2020, 07:12:09 PM
I'm really surprised at that figure. I would have expected it to be somewhere around half of that or even less, but not the zero of the no brigade either. Those lockdowns really cause even more collateral damage than I suspected!
Second lockdown started on 30th October here...
From viewing that video once it looked like 2019 had a well above average deaths if not highest most months and the previous few years had generally increasing deaths most of the year particularly in winter. I wonder why there's been a general increase in deaths the last 5 ish years? My first thought it due to finally reaping the rewards of all the austerity measures the since the recession.
It's a bit confusing how 2019 is animated, since it fills in the shading at the same time on that rotation, but it doesn't go significantly above any particular previous year. You can see this if you pause and have a good look at the curves before the end of 2018. Generally though, mortality rate will increase slightly over time as a function of population increase. You can't compare raw death rates from 2020 to those from 1970, for example.
Yeah it all gets a bit confusing and jumbled after a few spins, could maybe have used a few different colours. Still though, interesting to see it all laid out that way
Quote from: Ollkiller on December 02, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
So England rolling out vaccinations next week. Lads gigs might actually be a thing again. Fucking GIGS
I'm actually wondering if Brexit is going to have a bigger effect on gigs than the virus, in the long term at least
I could be wrong, but I always thought Irish dates were added on nearly as an extra if a band was booking a more lucrative British tour. And it seems like there'll be much more hoops to jump through to try and organise that now will a rake of bands just not bother playing there?
Quote from: Trev on December 03, 2020, 10:27:16 AM
Yeah it all gets a bit confusing and jumbled after a few spins, could maybe have used a few different colours. Still though, interesting to see it all laid out that way
Quote from: Ollkiller on December 02, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
So England rolling out vaccinations next week. Lads gigs might actually be a thing again. Fucking GIGS
I'm actually wondering if Brexit is going to have a bigger effect on gigs than the virus, in the long term at least
I could be wrong, but I always thought Irish dates were added on nearly as an extra if a band was booking a more lucrative British tour. And it seems like there'll be much more hoops to jump through to try and organise that now will a rake of bands just not bother playing there?
Could be an unexpected boon for the local/national scene...? Could even be the thing that gets both the players and punters to really get the finger out. That's not to say a lot aren't giving it their best but if the mid-size bands aren't arsed making it over, a lot of the punters will surely still want to get the live music fix
Edit, for the obligatory anti-stuff bit:
https://twitter.com/HowardSteen4/status/1334546610701934593/photo/1
Ok here's a change of tack for me, and a question I had in mind a bit..
If the PCR testing is picking up dead fragments of virus or giving false positives, how do those who test positive then test negative 2 weeks later? Wouldn't the same dead fragments of previous infection still be present and give the same positive result?
Only ways I can think around that is that test picks up other infections which then clear, or all asymptomatic are actively infected at time of test, or test is run at lower CT the second time around.
Then there was the HPSC document which said that it's likely to be dead fragments at higher CT values, possibly going back months but that brings me back to the first question of how do they test negative 2 weeks later? They can't all be getting found in the last 2 weeks before the last fragments of RNA are cleared out. So what gives?
Quote from: astfgyl on December 04, 2020, 11:01:42 AM
So what gives?
That it has always been a shaky at best argument?
There's an argument there, and given the stakes involved it is certainly worth more mainstream debate. I don't know enough to know how strong or weak it is though, but keeping it out of the mainstream sends more like myself towards the fringe looking for more info. Besides that though, what about the HPSC publishing their recommendations about lowering CT values vs the actual fact of people testing negative the 2nd time round seeming to fly in the face of that notion? I'll have to let that one roll around for a bit, but it isn't a question I see addressed anywhere even though it's a fair one to wonder about.
Some more excess death rates, international this time:
https://twitter.com/VictimOfMaths/status/1334096045232500741?s=19
Maybe easier to read from here:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/04/world/europe/europe-covid-deaths.html
Edit: This is actually quite a good read, broad-reaching scope, analysis, and perspectives.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 04, 2020, 01:13:00 PM
Maybe easier to read from here:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/04/world/europe/europe-covid-deaths.html
Edit: This is actually quite a good read, broad-reaching scope, analysis, and perspectives.
Look at Ireland there. Also France by those graphs is no worse than last season. No better either, mind.
Also check Euromomo for their graphs of excess all-cause mortality, sidestepping the issue of mislabelling deaths which shows "second wave" or "endemic seasonal respiratory infection" to be about half of the first. The NYT article there focuses purely on C19 deaths so doesn't count for the dropoff in other causes which has been noted in some countries. It's also worth noting that most countries having a higher peak now seem to have avoided it somewhat during last season, so maybe there is something in that Dry Tinder theory after all. Have to wait until the end of April to give Ireland a proper comparison which includes the epidemic anyway. Italy will be the first in Europe to get the full year comparison and it will be interesting to see how it compares with 2018 when they had a severe respiratory season over there
Yup, must have won the lottery to be excluded from having a second peak, right?
Maybe it will hit again in March in true seasonal fashion?
Quote from: astfgyl on December 04, 2020, 01:44:35 PM
Maybe it will hit again in March in true seasonal fashion?
That doesn't make sense, since Ireland is an exception to a rule which has two peaks so far this year.
It looks to me that a lot of the graphs in the NYT article show that the countries in question didn't have a first peak to speak of. Do you honestly think this isn't seasonal in nature, that as the WHO says it is "one big single wave"?
Quote from: astfgyl on December 04, 2020, 01:51:43 PM
It looks to me that a lot of the graphs in the NYT article show that the countries in question didn't have a first peak to speak of.
The article went to the effort to distinguish three trends: second peak larger than first, second peak smaller than first, and second peak significantly smaller than first.
Ireland is in the third class. Ireland is also the country which introduced a second lockdown earlier than any other country, before any local sign of a second wave.
Yes it does have some interesting data on there. I will get a proper look at it at some stage of the day as I have only glanced thus far.
So do you think it's seasonal in nature yourself? And would that possibly explain the massive dropoff in the summer months and the resurgence in the winter? If that was the case, then it would certainly dispense with the idea of summer lockdowns at the least even if it did make a case for winter ones (I'm still not convinced of that except maybe by personal choice for the most vulnerable groups)
Quote"There was a certain hesitancy to reintroduce the measures after the summer, because we all knew what they meant in terms of the economy and society," said Bruno Ciancio, the head of disease surveillance at European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.
"That hesitancy didn't really pay off. When you reach the levels that you see now, you have to go back to those measures anyway, but the price you pay is very high in terms of hospitalizations and deaths," he added.
The few countries that did move fast saw great benefits. Denmark, Finland, Iceland and Norway have kept the second wave at bay. Ireland has recorded fewer than 300 deaths since September 1, just 15 percent of its first wave total, after a tough and early second national lockdown.
I was very critical of the second lockdown in Ireland myself, thought it was overkill (excuse the dark pun), but it nevertheless seems to have worked, when comparing to other countries which were much slower in introducing second wave measures, such as France, Spain, etc. The two things aren't in contradiction; if you have a headache and you take morphine, you'll feel better, but it could still be seen as overkill...but the headache is nevertheless real. Simplistic attempts at analysis are not so useful.
Do I think it's seasonal? I think it's obvious that we don't have enough data yet to know whether it's seasonal; to measure that would, surely, require the possibility of following its evolution over more than one year.
Yeah we are playing very nicely into a future of lockdowns indeed. I can't wait. Good analogy with the headache though.
How is the summer explained away if not by seasonal differences in temperature/humidity? Did the virus go on holidays because we sure as fuck were going wherever we liked during those months... except the pub of course.
If it is a "seasonal" thing, then its season is much larger than the flu's season. But this year, it's very difficult to tell, since there were widespread lockdowns late into spring across Europe, which meant that population circulation during the summer was much lower. Increase began again already in mid August. Certainly there are seasonal factors, but we don't know enough. Here's a few bits and pieces on that:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02972-4
The seasonality discussion is in large part being obscured by the insistence of the WHO that it is a single event and definitely not seasonal. The differences in latitudes are not being taken into account when discussing the relative success or lack thereof with a lot of countries, and yet are accepted for other coronavirus variants as well as the likes of rhinovirus and influenza. For example, Australia is seen as doing very well because of locking down but not a peep about them being in summer there. Same thing happened here last May/June as the weather picked up. Coincidence? I dunno, seems iffy.
From the NYT:
QuoteBut most dramatically, nearly every country in Central and Eastern Europe — which as a region largely skirted the first outbreak — is now seeing alarming spikes in cases and deaths.
Could also mean that the avoidance of last season just saved it up for this run. Calling Europe as a single entity for a wave of anything is misleading at any rate, given the differences in climate and population densities and wildly differing cultural factors. Same as the US being considered as a single location when it is encompassing distinctly different climates
Ireland has been mild and humid so far this winter and I wouldn't rule out a stinging cold and dry February and March as we had last year to lead to a similar situation as April this year, although surely something will have been learned in the meantime around when to ventilate or not or indeed when to hospitalise patients at all vs the blind panic of early 2020. PPE situation should be better in nursing homes and hospitals as well so lockdown or no lockdown, vaccine or no vaccine it shouldn't reach the extent of last season. I still think it's in the post for spring here more than we are so great for locking down in time.
Also the Great Barrington Declaration still seems like the most palatable way through this as I see it, but they seem to be pissing into the wind everywhere outside of Florida.
It wasn't summer in Australia during the summertime here though ;) Since your overall hypothesis about what's going on isn't clear, it also isn't clear why you're attaching so much importance to whether it's seasonal or not. It's not even clear whether you're still on the "it's not real" thing, or what's going on. The excess deaths, independent of cause (which you can see here in this image I posted just before the NYT article, but note the data isn't so up to date as the latter https://twitter.com/VictimOfMaths/status/1334096045232500741?s=19) clearly fits with the COVID case and death curves. This means the burden of proof is on you to explain, for example, why Ireland hasn't had a second peak when countries on the same latitude but who didn't take such strict measures have (i.e. most notably the UK). Otherwise, it's just shooting cannon balls at flags. That's not the way to get ahead. You need to either start with a hypothesis, and then check that against the available data, or else try as much as possible to look at the data objectively, form an overall hypothesis, ask yourself what would make the hypothesis you've formed false, and see if such data exists. What you're doing is more like snatching at bits of data here and there and using them to attack other hypotheses, but not really trying to tie them all together to see if a better explanatory model can be drawn up. Cos if you don't have a better overall model - this is how it works in science - you ain't got nothin', regardless of the data you may have collected.
No it wasn't summer there at the same time as here, but when we were being hit badly and they were being held up as the poster boy for restricting incoming travel, they were just coming to the end of their summer. It's also worth noting that they don't traditionally suffer from anything like the level of respiratory infections that we do here in any given year. I don't think it's not real but I certainly think it's a load of bollix how it has been overblown to the extreme. I think mass testing has painted a very misleading picture of the situation.
The seasonality point is important because it pulls the rug from under the lockdowns somewhat, ie why did Ireland's rates fall? Because of seasonality or because we did such a good job of all being in it together? The problem I have with those stats from the NYT is that they focus on covid-labelled deaths and not overall excess mortality from all causes, so if a heart disease victim succumbs with a positive test but are asymptomatic, they would still show up in the covid tally but not the overall excess.
So my basic hypothesis is that the thing ran its' course here without us actually knowing much about it and by the time we locked down the peak of infections had already passed and the resulting deaths just needed to catch up over the next few weeks. This of course coincided with locking down so that then is painted as the solution to something to something that had simply ran its' course. The lockdowns are then pushed strongly, suiting the agenda of many of the pharma companies along with being extremely handy for meeting the almost impossible emissions targets for this year. Enter The Great Reset, the censorship of dissent on the major media and social media channels, and the promise to Build Back Better... all on the back of something that has been conveniently blown out of all proportion to allow it to happen. If we hadn't had it all taken away we wouldn't have this apparent appetite to take whatever vaccine is put in front of us (which we are all be about to be test subjects of) and we also wouldn't need to buy into the forthcoming health passport and all of the intrusive surveillance that will entail. So by accident or design, the current pandemic has been extremely convenient for a lot of global interests who won't be letting it go quietly or any time soon.
Looking at the twitter link you posted which does take all-cause mortality into account, the most surprising thing for me is how many countries are within the normal range of deaths. I would have expected more to have an initial spike.
Edit: I also think the reason that the Great Barrington declaration has been so disparaged is because it doesn't suit the agenda of building back better if shit doesn't fucking collapse first and the idea that they propose is way too much like going back to normal for that to happen. Interesting to see our own health minister using that very term a week or so ago as well, but sure that's just an oul conspiracy theory to think that any of this is to do with any sort of global agenda.
Okay, but there's so much that doesn't add up there, from the very small to the very big.
Quoteif a heart disease victim succumbs with a positive test but are asymptomatic, they would still show up in the covid tally but not the overall excess
All deaths show up in the overall excess; the excess is a tally of all deaths, regardless of cause, which, for whatever reason, happens to be significantly higher than previous years. So, regardless of how an individual dies, that death goes in the records for the week of their death, and if there is an excess that week compared to the same week averaged over the previous X number of years, then the poor prick who slipped in the bathroom and opened his skull also contributes to it.
Quotewhy did Ireland's rates fall? Because of seasonality or because we did such a good job of all being in it together?
Okay, but then why is Ireland, the first country to lock back down, one of the only two countries that hasn't seen any level of second wave? You have to explain that too, you don't get away with just explaining half of a phenomenon. And why in France, for example, did the deaths shoot up because measures weren't taken, continue to shoot up after measures were initially taken (second lockdown) and are now, after a month of these new measures, starting to go down again, despite the fact that "seasonally speaking" we're only getting going? (Not saying there aren't things to explain this, but you haven't tried to account for them: you also don't get away with trying to explain COVID like it's something that can be understood by only looking at what's happening in Ireland.)
Quote
Looking at the twitter link you posted which does take all-cause mortality into account, the most surprising thing for me is how many countries are within the normal range of deaths. I would have expected more to have an initial spike.
So, if it's all just made up, why didn't they? Have you looked at some of the analysis into why these countries didn't have an initial spike? Trends in the movement of people across borders, etc.? Look at the European countries without an initial spike and see what kinds of things are different between them and the countries that did have an initial spike; geography, international business interests, GDP, wealth, all sorts of things which might explain a higher density of cross-border travel into and between the latter category countries out of any kind of holiday season. Apart from Germany and Austria, with their incredibly well-equipped medical service, all of the top European GDP countries are in the latter category. Top GDP also means highest density of people moving in and out. Arrange this table by rank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita#List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita_2019
How does your hypothesis account for all of that better than others?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 04, 2020, 10:47:35 PM
Okay, but there's so much that doesn't add up there, from the very small to the very big.
Quoteif a heart disease victim succumbs with a positive test but are asymptomatic, they would still show up in the covid tally but not the overall excess
All deaths show up in the overall excess; the excess is a tally of all deaths, regardless of cause, which, for whatever reason, happens to be significantly higher than previous years. So, regardless of how an individual dies, that death goes in the records for the week of their death, and if there is an excess that week compared to the same week averaged over the previous X number of years, then the poor prick who slipped in the bathroom and opened his skull also contributes to it.
That one was poorly typed was all. I meant that the graph of covid deaths can be misleading. Of course a fella couldn't show up in either graph without dying but that the covid graph can only be taken along with all-cause at the end of things due to the likes of the crazy 28 day labelling system which by it's very design has to lead to misreporting.
I'll be back about the rest. I definitely have a few things about Ireland as it's the one I've looked the hardest at. There is a bit of the Great Barrington involved although probably not intentionally. Wife will kill me if I get straight into this after work but I'll be back.
Edit: Anyway the GDB thing I was getting at is that perhaps in Ireland with the tightening up in the nursing homes and hospitals, where most infections seem to occur and the fact that a lot of people won't visit the hospitals for minor complaints (which might not be a bad thing) may be inadvertently leading to a sort of Focused Protection model, given that it is precisely the frail individuals who are in hospitals and nursing homes that are the highest risk group.
Looking at the number of positive tests since September here and taking it that most are indicative of active infection, it would seem that locking down has had minimal effect on spread and yet the number of deaths has remained stubbornly low. Given what we accept, that this is deadly for the aged (but mostly because they have other things wrong with them) it seems the low death rate from the high number of positive tests would suggest that the stringent measures taken around the highest risk settings has had more of an effect on the death rate than locking down.
That's what I think I'm seeing here in Ireland. As for Europe I'll have to think about it for a bit
:laugh:
https://www.facebook.com/Sportuokime/videos/tv-%C5%BEini%C5%B3-metu-vie%C5%A1ai-%C5%BEmon%C4%97s-apgaudin%C4%97jami%C5%A1tai-kaip-skiepysis-vadovyb%C4%97sdalinam%C4%97s-/288387972204256/
Beginning of the end now; the UK has begun generation of human 5G signal boosters...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/coventry-woman-90-first-patient-to-receive-covid-vaccine-in-nhs-campaign
https://www.thedailybeast.com/william-shakespeare-first-man-to-get-pfizerbiontech-coronavirus-vaccine-as-mass-rollout-begins
"And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of SAR-CoV-2 dust??"
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 08, 2020, 08:46:11 AM
Beginning of the end now; the UK has begun generation of human 5G signal boosters...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/coventry-woman-90-first-patient-to-receive-covid-vaccine-in-nhs-campaign
Ah the old 5G. That thing that has been rolled out all over the country and nobody noticed anything. Absolutely deadly. For a different thread but I can see many of the applications of 5G being truly awful but not the thing in itself.
In other news any death within 28 days of a covid vaccination is to be classified as a covid vaccination death in the interest of fairness to those folks who were wrote down as covid deaths with the 28 day rule.
Quote from: astfgyl on December 09, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 08, 2020, 08:46:11 AM
Beginning of the end now; the UK has begun generation of human 5G signal boosters...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/coventry-woman-90-first-patient-to-receive-covid-vaccine-in-nhs-campaign
Ah the old 5G. That thing that has been rolled out all over the country and nobody noticed anything. Absolutely deadly. For a different thread but I can see many of the applications of 5G being truly awful but not the thing in itself.
In other news any death within 28 days of a covid vaccination is to be classified as a covid vaccination death in the interest of fairness to those folks who were wrote down as covid deaths with the 28 day rule.
Nobody noticed anything? Are you living under a fucking rock?
The only 5G I noticed was the mushie variety.
Quote from: lifeeternal on December 09, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 09, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 08, 2020, 08:46:11 AM
Beginning of the end now; the UK has begun generation of human 5G signal boosters...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/coventry-woman-90-first-patient-to-receive-covid-vaccine-in-nhs-campaign
Ah the old 5G. That thing that has been rolled out all over the country and nobody noticed anything. Absolutely deadly. For a different thread but I can see many of the applications of 5G being truly awful but not the thing in itself.
In other news any death within 28 days of a covid vaccination is to be classified as a covid vaccination death in the interest of fairness to those folks who were wrote down as covid deaths with the 28 day rule.
Nobody noticed anything? Are you living under a fucking rock?
Nah it's an igneous rock. What is it that I'm supposed to have noticed beyond the mobile companies claiming to have 5G coverage all of a sudden? Seriously like, I don't see the difference and I'm as paranoid as it gets around here
Quote from: astfgyl on December 10, 2020, 03:47:34 PM
Quote from: lifeeternal on December 09, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 09, 2020, 03:57:08 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 08, 2020, 08:46:11 AM
Beginning of the end now; the UK has begun generation of human 5G signal boosters...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/coventry-woman-90-first-patient-to-receive-covid-vaccine-in-nhs-campaign
Ah the old 5G. That thing that has been rolled out all over the country and nobody noticed anything. Absolutely deadly. For a different thread but I can see many of the applications of 5G being truly awful but not the thing in itself.
In other news any death within 28 days of a covid vaccination is to be classified as a covid vaccination death in the interest of fairness to those folks who were wrote down as covid deaths with the 28 day rule.
Nobody noticed anything? Are you living under a fucking rock?
Nah it's an igneous rock. What is it that I'm supposed to have noticed beyond the mobile companies claiming to have 5G coverage all of a sudden? Seriously like, I don't see the difference and I'm as paranoid as it gets around here
People were having protests, setting masts on fire (which weren't actually 5g masts) it was a massive thing when the pandemic started "oh its the 5G making us sick" which morphed into "oh its not real they are going to impose martial law" which has morphed into "its all a scam to put nanochips in us with the vaccines which they need 5g to operate" circle of idiocy is complete.
Yeah I get what you're saying but in essence you are only reinforcing what I was saying. The 5G was rolled out, no-one noticed. There were protests to notice, there were theories bandied about but at the end of the day it happened and no-one notices anything. As I said, it is the future applications of it rather than the actual technology in itself that will be the issue. IMO, it will be yet another tool which leads to absolute conformity and total surveillance but doesn't seem to be microwaving us as was feared. Sure look at the internet for confirmation of good technology being a bad thing in its' application. Or RT-PCR for another one...
Cognitive Dissonance:
I can sit in Costa without a mask and feel safe but I wear a mask driving around on my own because the invisible enemy is everywhere.
If I am a professional, it is far too dangerous to go to work but if I work in a shop it is considered safe enough.
SME's are the most dangerous places to be, but massive corporations are safe to visit.
I am safe to be in a pub with a dinner, but not to sit at the same table simply having a drink.
This virus is so infectious that not one person working in any of the shops in town has caught it.
We are all in this together all of a sudden and we now trust the word of the same politicians we wouldn't piss on last year and in fact tried to get rid of them at the election. RIGGED ELECTION!!
We have a team of experts driving policy during this extremely dangerous time who are all fully impartial in spite of their links to the very industries who will profit most from their decisions. (NPHET member running testing lab for example)
The hospitals are under such pressure that they are almost empty for most of the year.
There has not been a single case of flu this season because everyone is wearing masks and distancing. Covid cases keep rising because we are not all wearing our masks and distancing.
Nobody trusts a word out of China in the normal run of things but every country in the world has copied their system of epidemic management in spite of the fact that the death rate is now known to be at least 10 times lower than what China had reported.
The virus has ravaged Ireland to the extent that we are heading for a record low year for all cause mortality.
The anti-capitalist left are the ones pushing the hardest for conformity and feeding the massive corporations they used to be against. (That is surely
the greatest flip of all)
There are many many more examples on both sides of the argument if anybody wants to join in.
For astfygl.....
https://youtu.be/QbGJ4twuLS8
If you're going to invite the media over to your hospital to showboat the staff getting injections, you'd probably want to make sure the lad who's administering the shot actually knows what he's doing.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/16/hospital-accused-of-faking-covid-vaccine-for-tv-after-viewers-spotted-syringe-plunger-that-didnt-move-13763415/
It's a shot for a TV news piece. If you've ever been part of one you know all kinds of hilarious shit gets done for b-roll. There is absolutely nothing to this.
Honestly, are people's brains that fuccking melted at this stage.
:laugh:
Macron has tested positive now.
Might want to link that high-larious picture in some kind of NSFW way man.
Attention: the above post ^^^ comes with a NSFW warning....
Or you could grow a pair.... :abbath:
(see what I did there?) :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 17, 2020, 09:43:51 AM
Macron has tested positive now.
Might want to link that high-larious picture in some kind of NSFW way man.
Errr, it's a medical photo warning of the dangers of rushed out vaccines.
Her name is Sukki Sukki by the way....
https://twitter.com/i/events/1339571301783134210
Yeah imagine that, and yet the headlines say it shows what we could have after we all take the vaccine even though they don't have one. Hmmmm?
Of course the whole world hasn't been played like a fiddle or anything and economic havoc hasn't been wreaked on every western nation, nothing like that. Imagine, the very city where they discovered asymptomatic transmission wasn't a thing in a sample of 10 million people, is first back doing whatever they like.
Don't forget to charge any relatives invited round for Christmas dinner the magic €9 and all will be fine.
Better still, only invite family members and friends that work in supermarkets and shops round for the tukky & ham consumption.
Quote from: astfgyl on December 17, 2020, 07:18:38 PM
https://twitter.com/i/events/1339571301783134210
Yeah imagine that, and yet the headlines say it shows what we could have after we all take the vaccine even though they don't have one. Hmmmm?
Of course the whole world hasn't been played like a fiddle or anything and economic havoc hasn't been wreaked on every western nation, nothing like that. Imagine, the very city where they discovered asymptomatic transmission wasn't a thing in a sample of 10 million people, is first back doing whatever they like.
Nowhere in the West responded the way China did though. There was a lot of moaning about China acting slowly, but when they did act, they acted hard, really hard. Much more than any of the comparatively mild measures that are making you feel so violated. And now you want to compare their results with ours in the West? Sorry, that's a real case of wanting to have your fortune cookie and eat it.
You don't really believe that though, although the argument itself is seemingly sound enough.
It's one thing being paranoid about everything but it's equally a thing insisting there is nothing to see here.
It's true though, China were forcing people to stay indoors, and in the west you're asking people to wear a mask and instead they congregate in thousands screaming "MUH FREEDOM"
Quote from: astfgyl on December 17, 2020, 09:18:15 PM
You don't really believe that though
I really do believe that.
Ok so China's own mass testing of 10 million people showed that asymptomatic transmission wasn't a thing, but only after flooding the internet with horror images and stories and influencing the masses in every country worldwide to beg for a lockdown due to the suggestion that this virus was 10 times more deadly than what it was. Then the rest of the world, clever as they are, decided to lock down over and over to wait for a vaccine to save them even though there has never been an effective one against the SARS-type virus. Lo and behold all records are broken and here it is, but it doesn't stop transmission, only supposedly and with some very soft results lessens the severity in 94% of people in the study group (who also were only accepted with no underlying conditions and at a young age). And don't forget that it was already circulating last year, well before Wuhan/Hubei lockdown and the same level of quarantine was not introduced in the rest of China. Now, would logic not suggest that it would have gotten out to most of China during that time before discovery just as it did the rest of the world?? No? Ok. Yet look at their flatlined graph of cases since May compared to everywhere else. How did they stop transmission all over the rest of China without that lockdown? We know the cat was out of the bag long before then do we not (see sewage samples from Italy/Brazil going back to last autumn)? Now Wuhan is back to absolute normal (no masks, no distancing, no lockdown) while the rest of the world continues to struggle with the notion of containing something that is almost certainly impossible to contain, and all without the magic vaccine. Imagine that for an outcome. And there we were, 2 weeks to flatten the curve 9 months ago to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed which they never did.
As I already mentioned, thinking that there is a secret cabal hell bent on enslavement of all peoples of the earth is no worse than thinking that all massive corporations and financial interests are benevolent and we are all in this together while the richest people in the world get even richer and more powerful off the back of this thing. Disaster Capitalism anyone? Nah of course not. Massive wealth transfer from small business to big? Certainly not! New Normal declared before anyone knew the outcome? You betcha!!
And it's MY freedom, or what little of it I have left. It reminds me of that quote knocking around saying those who would give up their freedom for security deserve neither. Of course that's a bit extreme but it has a point.
Oh and by the way, the vaccine is guaranteed to work now that the WHO have published the guidelines for what is a case in the last few days and guess what...? It states that positive PCR results should now only be considered valid in conjunction with clinical symptoms (https://www.who.int/news/item/14-12-2020-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users). So pandemic over then. Actually, here's the relevant quote for the lazy:
QuoteConsider any positive result (SARS-CoV-2 detected) or negative results (SARS-CoV-2 not detected) in combination with specimen type, clinical observations, patient history, and epidemiological information.
Well they said another few months, until enough people have taken the vaccine that doesn't prevent transmission. Cool. We won! We did it together!
Fuck sake lads.
Here: have a look at this https://sciencebusiness.net/covid-19/news/world-leading-virologist-joins-new-eu-covid-19-advisory-team
Look behind him there. Yep the WEF. Now where have I heard of them before? Oh yeah it's the crowd pushing The Great Reset and telling us things can never go back to how they were. What a coincidence. Very handy pandemic there, so lucky it came along at just the right time.
The jury is still very much out on asymptomatic transmission. Logically, it's expected to be lower, since no symptoms means less spontaneous expulsion of infected fluids - saliva, mucus, etc., - either directly towards a third party or indirectly via hand to surface to hand contact, etc. Also, the count on how many infected people are actually "asymptomatic" has been seriously reviewed. Since symptoms can be merely cold-like or mild flu-like, someone with sniffles or whatever may not have considered this was a COVID symptom...yet precisely because they were sniffly or coughing slightly more than usual, they were also a more potent vector than had they been truly 100% symptom free.
So, you're departing from an absolute which, at the very least, is a strong candidate for being a false premise.
Here's a recent brief overview of asymptomaticity and transmission:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03141-3
Not to mention, you should really be aware at how blatantly you're falling into the most classic "symptom" of confirmation bias; discrediting a source when it doesn't suit your narrative, but leaning on it when it does. That source being Chinese science, in your case.
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 09:32:58 AM
. And there we were, 2 weeks to flatten the curve 9 months ago to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed which they never did.
Just RE this bit, because I see it coming up all over the place, does it not make sense that the hospitals are not being overrun BECAUSE there's been a massive effort to reduce transmission? Like, that was the scenario to be avoided, and no one wanted to see it happen, it wasn't a case of "this is what's going to happen", but "this is likely to happen if we carry on business as usual"?
I dunno, it makes sense to me and it's not a gamble anyone in government would want to be seen taking. I'm not seeing the logic at all behind this tbh, and to be clear I'm not singling you out on this, it's just a talking point I've seen come up a lot over the course of the year.
We've all been led down the garden path by China, Big Pharma and Big Tech. On the one hand you have the likes of me, suspicious of everything and on the other the rest of ye here with the "it's all above board and the world is a good honest place, especially when there is astronomical sums of money involved". Still to this day I have yet to see a better assessment of the situation than Wolfgang Wodarg back in March.
The likelihood is that the answer lies somewhere in between, ie that there really is a bad dose going and the rampant opportunism is feeding into people's fears for one and feeding on their good nature for another. Just imagine for a moment that the only cases were those that presented with clinical symptoms, and then confirmed via testing. Yes we would be still somewhat in a position of concern and caution indeed and last spring would still stand out, but no way would we be in this shit right now, hiding under the proverbial rock waiting for the vaccine cavalry to give us a few of our basic rights back. During the epidemic here, there were 155 cases in ICU and according to Varadkar, we weren't overwhelmed, so having 30 today is not the same level of concern whatsoever but is being treated as if it is in the national media. And don't worry I don't feel singled out and I'm also the fella constantly pushing the opposing narrative to the mainstream so I can expect to be called out and schooled on a regular basis!
Good Irish data here: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing. Nothing major going on here, although looking at last spring I can understand why there were strict measures taken and if it was my own decision I would have locked down twice as hard as our government did at the time and closed the borders entirely but that was then and this is now and the situation has changed an awful lot since. Let's not forget either that the vaccine is the only get out of jail free card available to the government so it is very much in their best interests to keep the fear going and the masks and the distancing so it can be said that was what did the trick. Imagine if it was simply an initial epidemic and has now become an endemic seasonal respiratory virus, sure that would be terrible news for both governments and pharma companies as well as the likes of Google and Amazon and don't forget the research and testing labs and all the extremely well funded studies along with mask manufacturers, perspex companies etc. The list goes on of who will lose out if we simply get on with living or even go Great Barrington and shield the vulnerable while life goes on for the rest.
Regarding the Chinese science, of course they would have initially estimated higher due to the limited amount of testing and that testing being carried out on mostly symptomatic cases, so I can say both that their science is technically correct as well as saying that the worldwide social media push coming from there contributed to everybody panicking in a big way. And we all suffer from confirmation bias in one way or another. I'll see your Nature article and raise you this https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19802-w regarding asymptomatic transmission. Pre-symptomatic? Maybe, but it all just keeps the whole shitshow going. I'd be fairly confident that pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic would be about as dangerous as each other if those who developed symptoms were to isolate and let others get on with life. How many asymptomatic cases of rhinovirus or influenza would we find if we went at it in this fashion? We would simply have to shut the world down for good for fear some people would get sick and die. And while we all huddle in, half the world is driven into starvation even worse than before. It is not callous to say we can't stop death and that people should be trusted to decide their own level of risk in any given situation.
QuoteOk so China's own mass testing of 10 million people showed that asymptomatic transmission wasn't a thing
That Nature study, wisely, makes no such claim. Had it been a study of 10 million contact cases from asymptomatic positives, then they could have advanced such a claim. But that's not what it was at all. There were 300 asymptomatic cases out of 10 million tested at the end of a stricter lockdown than anywhere in Europe implemented, and none of the contacts (of which there would have been very, very few per individual, due to lockdown) of those 300 were positive. So, does asymptomatic transmission exist? Impossible to say based on that study, since notably it wasn't even designed with that in mind.
No it wasn't designed with that in mind but as a secondary outcome it was surely considered and even if it wasn't considered it's there in the results all the same. Just a lucky break for the world then that it showed no cases of asymptomatic transmission whatsoever in a sample size of 10 million in a city which it had been circulating for months prior to lockdown. I wonder what the Chinese themselves made of those results and if it is informing their policy whatsoever. Brother in law lives there and he says it's business as usual in Shenzhen. I concede that they are very strict on quarantining arrivals though..
It showed no apparent asymptomatic transmission from the remaining 300 asymptomatic positives that were remaining at the end of a draconian lockdown. It didn't, and couldn't, show that no asymptomatic transmission had occurred at any prior time point.
A nice comparative piece here about the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic from a historian at Swansea University:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/18/a-christmas-pandemic-like-no-other-they-thought-that-in-1918-influenza-covid
Here lads, go and smoke a joint will yiz.....
Did that. Well a bong but still..
Did you know that none other than me oul pal Fauci wrote a paper outlining how bacterial pneumonia from mask wearing and unsanitary conditions likely caused the more deadly second wave of the 1918 pandemic?
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
Too many happy coincidences in all of this, suiting too many agendas for my liking. I just can't and don't trust it all.
Bong? You should be lying on your back staring at all the stars on your ceiling brudder.....
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you know that none other than me oul pal Fauci wrote a paper outlining how bacterial pneumonia from mask wearing and unsanitary conditions likely caused the more deadly second wave of the 1918 pandemic?
An important part of that claim was quickly and easily debunked; the 2008 paper in question doesn't actually mention masks at all. Might want to review any other information you got from the sources which threw that one at you.
Edit: Here's the full text in open access, so you can do a Ctrl+F for yourself: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2599911/
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 18, 2020, 11:57:29 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you know that none other than me oul pal Fauci wrote a paper outlining how bacterial pneumonia from mask wearing and unsanitary conditions likely caused the more deadly second wave of the 1918 pandemic?
An important part of that claim was quickly and easily debunked; the 2008 paper in question doesn't actually mention masks at all. Might want to review any other information you got from the sources which threw that one at you.
Edit: Here's the full text in open access, so you can do a Ctrl+F for yourself: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2599911/
Touché!!!
I'd try anything to debunk the masks.. :'(
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
A quick domain check shows it was first registered in 2009, and The New Normal was in 2004. Not sure where you're getting your info but it might be worth putting those sources under a similar scrutiny
Quote from: Trev on December 19, 2020, 08:12:41 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
A quick domain check shows it was first registered in 2009, and The New Normal was in 2004. Not sure where you're getting your info but it might be worth putting those sources under a similar scrutiny
God forbid 😂
The man with the unpronounceable name is getting it fierce tight the last few days!
Normally I'd accuse Chris of OD'ing on the auld soma he's so fond of, but he's on the money on this thread.
Pity about all the other threads, but sure lookit :)
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did that. Well a bong but still..
Did you know that none other than me oul pal Fauci wrote a paper outlining how bacterial pneumonia from mask wearing and unsanitary conditions likely caused the more deadly second wave of the 1918 pandemic?
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
Too many happy coincidences in all of this, suiting too many agendas for my liking. I just can't and don't trust it all.
You're falling off the wagon sir.
Quote from: Trev on December 19, 2020, 08:12:41 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
A quick domain check shows it was first registered in 2009, and The New Normal was in 2004. Not sure where you're getting your info but it might be worth putting those sources under a similar scrutiny
That's even worse!!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 19, 2020, 12:56:26 PM
The man with the unpronounceable name is getting it fierce tight the last few days!
Normally I'd accuse Chris of OD'ing on the auld soma he's so fond of, but he's on the money on this thread.
Pity about all the other threads, but sure lookit :)
Don't worry you'll get yours.. again
I'll be back, and with even more unbelievable claims
Edit: Anyway I gave him his due and like any proper sportsman I will take the lessons learned and use them to improve my future performances
Quote from: astfgyl on December 19, 2020, 04:10:16 PM
Quote from: Trev on December 19, 2020, 08:12:41 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
A quick domain check shows it was first registered in 2009, and The New Normal was in 2004. Not sure where you're getting your info but it might be worth putting those sources under a similar scrutiny
That's even worse!!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 19, 2020, 12:56:26 PM
The man with the unpronounceable name is getting it fierce tight the last few days!
Normally I'd accuse Chris of OD'ing on the auld soma he's so fond of, but he's on the money on this thread.
Pity about all the other threads, but sure lookit :)
Don't worry you'll get yours.. again
I'll be back, and with even more unbelievable claims
Edit: Anyway I gave him his due and like any proper sportsman I will take the lessons learned and use them to improve my future performances
The new normal was Roger McNamees blog, the billionaire lad that plays in Moonalice, he doesn't strike me as an evil nefarious type.
https://youtu.be/iH2tX0Q3U0o
Quote from: astfgyl on December 19, 2020, 04:10:16 PM
Quote from: Trev on December 19, 2020, 08:12:41 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 18, 2020, 11:48:00 PM
Did you also know that the website "The Great Reset dot com" was first registered in 2016 with the title "The New Normal dot com"?
A quick domain check shows it was first registered in 2009, and The New Normal was in 2004. Not sure where you're getting your info but it might be worth putting those sources under a similar scrutiny
That's even worse!!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 19, 2020, 12:56:26 PM
The man with the unpronounceable name is getting it fierce tight the last few days!
Normally I'd accuse Chris of OD'ing on the auld soma he's so fond of, but he's on the money on this thread.
Pity about all the other threads, but sure lookit :)
Don't worry you'll get yours.. again
I'll be back, and with even more unbelievable claims
Edit: Anyway I gave him his due and like any proper sportsman I will take the lessons learned and use them to improve my future performances
You'll know you've won when he fails to respond. Feels pretty good :)
Lol I'm looking forward to catching him on a minor technicality someday!
You've "caught me" on plenty of minor technicalities, or presented plenty of things that actually are evidence of skull duggery. The mistake is thinking there's an over-arching narrative that absolutely everything fits nicely into, that you inevitably try to oblige everything to fit into.
Santa Claus, The Guardian, Fauci, the vaccine...this story has a very high trigger potential for modern cynics!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/19/anthony-fauci-vaccinate-santa-claus-coronavirus
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 20, 2020, 08:40:27 AM
Santa Claus, The Guardian, Fauci, the vaccine...this story has a very high trigger potential for modern cynics!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/19/anthony-fauci-vaccinate-santa-claus-coronavirus
Lol, unfortunately one has to register with The Guardian to read the story.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 20, 2020, 09:03:03 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 20, 2020, 08:40:27 AM
Santa Claus, The Guardian, Fauci, the vaccine...this story has a very high trigger potential for modern cynics!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/19/anthony-fauci-vaccinate-santa-claus-coronavirus
Lol, unfortunately one has to register with The Guardian to read the story.
Clicked on it there and read it no bother. No registration needed.
Lest it ever be said Mr.Cocaine was denied his dose of Christmas cheer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEil6VTzXdc
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 20, 2020, 10:21:36 AM
Lest it ever be said Mr.Cocaine was denied his dose of Christmas cheer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEil6VTzXdc
It's probably the most truthful thing he's ever said :laugh:....
As of midnight, travel from the UK to Ireland will be suspended for 48 hours .
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 20, 2020, 10:41:23 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 20, 2020, 10:21:36 AM
Lest it ever be said Mr.Cocaine was denied his dose of Christmas cheer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEil6VTzXdc
It's probably the most truthful thing he's ever said :laugh:....
Y'know I was going to give out about even the concept of Santa being used as propaganda for massive corporate interests.
Then I thought about it. So fire away Fauci, you are only standing on the shoulders of giants with that one.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 19, 2020, 07:39:49 PM
You've "caught me" on plenty of minor technicalities, or presented plenty of things that actually are evidence of skull duggery. The mistake is thinking there's an over-arching narrative that absolutely everything fits nicely into, that you inevitably try to oblige everything to fit into.
Guilty as charged. The best thing about being schooled is that it's educational!
Hang on, Fauci says that the question most kids want answered is "does it hurt?"??
How come they aren't asking "why the fuck do we want this shit when the word from the get go is that we don't suffer from severe illness from it and have also been told we are not drivers of infection?"?
Quote"You know," he said, "the vaccine shot is in the arm. It's a pinch. But the pinch lasts really a short time, literally in seconds. And I'll bet you that after you get vaccinated, when vaccines become available for children or for all children, you're going to say, 'You know, it wasn't that bad at all.' I'll guarantee.
Shut the fuck up kids, it's for your own good we promise
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/kids-and-covid-19-why-they-are-not-getting-as-sick/
Quote from: astfgyl on December 20, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Hang on, Fauci says that the question most kids want answered is "does it hurt?"??
How come they aren't asking "why the fuck do we want this shit when the word from the get go is that we don't suffer from severe illness from it and have also been told we are not drivers of infection?"?
Quote"You know," he said, "the vaccine shot is in the arm. It's a pinch. But the pinch lasts really a short time, literally in seconds. And I'll bet you that after you get vaccinated, when vaccines become available for children or for all children, you're going to say, 'You know, it wasn't that bad at all.' I'll guarantee.
Shut the fuck up kids, it's for your own good we promise
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/kids-and-covid-19-why-they-are-not-getting-as-sick/
If a kid lives in a household with someone who is immunosuppressed, like say someone going through chemo, they could pass it on to them.
Vaccine is being rolled out. Whoopeeee, we're saved.
But wait, oh no! New super strain of Covid suddenly appears.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO TAKE THE VACCINE.!!
Interesting to hear how unimpressed Kary Mullis was with Fauci.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtgUGxxzB_c&ab_channel=GordonRamsay
Just got confirmation from a test result that my girlfriend has it, so that likely includes me. Stuck inside now for the duration of our annual leave and won't see our family or friends. Just the icing on the cake of shite that is 2020.
They don't want you to see your family or friends.
Hopefully both of your symptoms (assuming you have it) are very mild.
The missus has totally lost her sense of taste and smell for 3 days now, which is freaking her out a bit. Aside from that and feeling wrecked tired the whole time, there's nothing else. No symptoms on my side, so we'll see... currently awaiting a test.
Wow that is interesting. I'd love to hear what he would have had to say about the current state of things
Quote from: Bigmac on December 21, 2020, 10:44:29 AM
Interesting to hear how unimpressed Kary Mullis was with Fauci.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtgUGxxzB_c&ab_channel=GordonRamsay
Quote from: Nazgûl on December 21, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
The missus has totally lost her sense of taste and smell for 3 days now, which is freaking her out a bit. Aside from that and feeling wrecked tired the whole time, there's nothing else. No symptoms on my side, so we'll see... currently awaiting a test.
What exactly can you do regarding shopping for essentials etc?
Quote from: lifeeternal on December 21, 2020, 12:38:14 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 20, 2020, 07:59:07 PM
Hang on, Fauci says that the question most kids want answered is "does it hurt?"??
How come they aren't asking "why the fuck do we want this shit when the word from the get go is that we don't suffer from severe illness from it and have also been told we are not drivers of infection?"?
Quote"You know," he said, "the vaccine shot is in the arm. It's a pinch. But the pinch lasts really a short time, literally in seconds. And I'll bet you that after you get vaccinated, when vaccines become available for children or for all children, you're going to say, 'You know, it wasn't that bad at all.' I'll guarantee.
Shut the fuck up kids, it's for your own good we promise
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/kids-and-covid-19-why-they-are-not-getting-as-sick/
If a kid lives in a household with someone who is immunosuppressed, like say someone going through chemo, they could pass it on to them.
Yeah but you're missing the point that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection, only reduces the chances of developing severe illness. Now I can see how that might work given my belief that lesser symptoms should equate to a lesser chance of passing it on, but that isn't what I have been fed all along.
Quote from: Blackout on December 21, 2020, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: Nazgûl on December 21, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
The missus has totally lost her sense of taste and smell for 3 days now, which is freaking her out a bit. Aside from that and feeling wrecked tired the whole time, there's nothing else. No symptoms on my side, so we'll see... currently awaiting a test.
What exactly can you do regarding shopping for essentials etc?
Before her results came back, we decided to prepare for the worst case so got all the shopping in yesterday for at least a week. Have our mate doing a booze shop for us later and some fuel for the fire ordered too for today.
So all set there, but the HSE person who called said we can't leave the house under any circumstances basically. I imagine they expect you to have food shops and the rest ordered online for delivery.
Lucky there's the pair of us and the dog in it. It would be absolutely shite to have to lock yourself in alone and not see anyone this time of year, regardless if you buy into the whole Christmas lark or not.
Hope the two of you manage to squeeze some good cheer out of the week!
Here's a great article highlighting how the big pharma bathwater can be thrown out without chucking the baby of basic research with it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/opinion/covid-vaccine-big-pharma.html
Also, as much of a genius in his narrow domain as Kary Mullis is (he's already been discussed in this thread incidentally), he's a full on fucking acid casualty nutbar outside of that.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2020, 04:07:30 PM
Hope the two of you manage to squeeze some good cheer out of the week!
Well in the hopes either of us don't start getting a bad dose of it in terms of symptoms, then I'm sure the hot whiskeys, tunes, good food and the wee stash of weed and magic mushrooms we have left over should do nicely. :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2020, 04:07:30 PM
Hope the two of you manage to squeeze some good cheer out of the week!
Here's a great article highlighting how the big pharma bathwater can be thrown out without chucking the baby of basic research with it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/opinion/covid-vaccine-big-pharma.html
Also, as much of a genius in his narrow domain as Kary Mullis is (he's already been discussed in this thread incidentally), he's a full on fucking acid casualty nutbar outside of that.
Interesting bits on Mullis and PCR here for anyone interested: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/technology-history/man-who-photocopied-dna-and-also-saw-talking-fluorescent-raccoon
Very good article there. Great to see someone in the media not fawning over the pharma companies or painting them as our saviours. Somebody should fucking tattoo that on Ryan Tubridy's face.
Some info on vaccine safety here as well: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-12/slides-12-19/05-COVID-CLARK.pdf
Also, Nazgûl I wish you and the girlfriend all the best and hope ye will be among the vast vast majority who make a full and swift recovery (If indeed you test positive, but herself anyway). The oul stash of mushies and green should make a bit of a christmas out of it at least.
Quote from: Nazgûl on December 21, 2020, 10:52:46 AM
Just got confirmation from a test result that my girlfriend has it, so that likely includes me. Stuck inside now for the duration of our annual leave and won't see our family or friends. Just the icing on the cake of shite that is 2020.
Hopefully it'll go fairly smoothly for ye both, lad.
Quote from: Nazgûl on December 21, 2020, 03:31:33 PM
Quote from: Blackout on December 21, 2020, 12:35:41 PM
Quote from: Nazgûl on December 21, 2020, 11:54:19 AM
The missus has totally lost her sense of taste and smell for 3 days now, which is freaking her out a bit. Aside from that and feeling wrecked tired the whole time, there's nothing else. No symptoms on my side, so we'll see... currently awaiting a test.
What exactly can you do regarding shopping for essentials etc?
Before her results came back, we decided to prepare for the worst case so got all the shopping in yesterday for at least a week. Have our mate doing a booze shop for us later and some fuel for the fire ordered too for today.
So all set there, but the HSE person who called said we can't leave the house under any circumstances basically. I imagine they expect you to have food shops and the rest ordered online for delivery.
Lucky there's the pair of us and the dog in it. It would be absolutely shite to have to lock yourself in alone and not see anyone this time of year, regardless if you buy into the whole Christmas lark or not.
That's a shite thing to happen at Christmas dude hope you both get through it OK.
Cheers all!
Astfgyl, did you say a few times here you're from Galway?? Sure you can come over to my covid ridden gaf, we'll take the mushies and sort all of this out. :laugh:
Nah I'm from Tipp but sound for the offer. I did call to someone with a positive test to drop up some booze but there were no high fives given and I was off again quick smart. I'm a skeptic but I'm not a daredevil! :laugh:
Sorry for your trouble Nazgul, its a shite state of affairs.
Hope herself has a speedy recovery and the best of luck to yourself.
Re. the vaccine.
the whole talk now is about vaccinating 70% of the population in order to achieve herd immunity.
this would be a perfectly reasonable aspiration if one were talking in terms of a sterilizing vaccination, which both prevents the development of symptoms for the individual and prevents contagion.
This vaccine, by all accounts, does not prevent contagion.
As such, unlike a sterilizing vaccine which produces herd immunity by starving the pathogen of hosts in which to reside, leading to its eventual demise, this vaccine will ensure that the pathogen survives, circulating in a continuous loop within the community of hosts, unabated.
This will lead to a requirement for governments to fork out trillions of euros to pharma companies on an ongoing basis, year after year for vaccines, thus increasing the profits made by these companies and consolidating the power they wield over these same governments and the people they represent.
Like the continuous loop of contagion, the corruption goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, .............................................
If you want an image of the future of humanity, imagine a boot, stamping on a human face, forever.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2020, 04:07:30 PM
Also, as much of a genius in his narrow domain as Kary Mullis is (he's already been discussed in this thread incidentally), he's a full on fucking acid casualty nutbar outside of that.
Would you have a source for that "full on fucking acid casualty nutbar" statement?
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on December 21, 2020, 11:20:06 PM
Sorry for your trouble Nazgul, its a shite state of affairs.
Hope herself has a speedy recovery and the best of luck to yourself.
Re. the vaccine.
the whole talk now is about vaccinating 70% of the population in order to achieve herd immunity.
this would be a perfectly reasonable aspiration if one were talking in terms of a sterilizing vaccination, which both prevents the development of symptoms for the individual and prevents contagion.
This vaccine, by all accounts, does not prevent contagion.
As such, unlike a sterilizing vaccine which produces herd immunity by starving the pathogen of hosts in which to reside, leading to its eventual demise, this vaccine will ensure that the pathogen survives, circulating in a continuous loop within the community of hosts, unabated.
This will lead to a requirement for governments to fork out trillions of euros to pharma companies on an ongoing basis, year after year for vaccines, thus increasing the profits made by these companies and consolidating the power they wield over these same governments and the people they represent.
Like the continuous loop of contagion, the corruption goes on, and on, and on, and on, and on, .............................................
If you want an image of the future of humanity, imagine a boot, stamping on a human face, forever.
Yep, all of that.
Quote from: Giggles on December 21, 2020, 11:44:31 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2020, 04:07:30 PM
Also, as much of a genius in his narrow domain as Kary Mullis is (he's already been discussed in this thread incidentally), he's a full on fucking acid casualty nutbar outside of that.
Would you have a source for that "full on fucking acid casualty nutbar" statement?
There is a link or 2 in the article I quoted a couple of posts ago about luminous raccoons and the like. Then again I've seen things on a par with luminous raccoons and I think I'm perfectly sane. I think from the things I've read about Mullis that the general consensus is that he's a bit of a character but then that could be character assassination given how things go with dissenting voices and the accepted narrative.
Edit: I'm reading this https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341832637_All-cause_mortality_during_COVID-19_No_plague_and_a_likely_signature_of_mass_homicide_by_government_response at the minute and not saying I agree or disagree because I haven't digested it all but it's an interesting take.
**double post**
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 22, 2020, 05:58:14 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2020, 04:07:30 PM
Hope the two of you manage to squeeze some good cheer out of the week!
Here's a great article highlighting how the big pharma bathwater can be thrown out without chucking the baby of basic research with it:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/opinion/covid-vaccine-big-pharma.html
Also, as much of a genius in his narrow domain as Kary Mullis is (he's already been discussed in this thread incidentally), he's a full on fucking acid casualty nutbar outside of that.
As much as a genius as you let on to be, you smoke dope every day. Have done mushies and probably have whacked on some acid.
Do we take on your ramblings here with a pinch of salt now too?
I thought he came across quite well in that snippet and his demeanour just added more charm to himself whilst discussing the absolute chancer(s) he was talking about.
The fact that he's even taken acid makes him more credible than those fame hungry leeches.
In my buik..... :abbath:
You should absolutely take everything I say here with a pinch of salt! In the snippet there, what's interesting is that he says Fauci is absolutely not the kind of person we want in the position he is in. That may be true, but if you investigate Mullis' broader views a bit (nothing to do with the raccoons), he's not really the kind of person you'd want deciding policy either. Think of the Simpsons episode with Stephen Hawkins...but on acid! :P :abbath:
Good overview of what we do and don't know about the new variant:
https://www.ft.com/content/a8cf7f88-7bfc-46c5-bb25-a914266f0377
Paywall on your FT article there.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-variant-could-more-easily-infect-children-scientist-suggests-12169549
Just fucking look who is doing the modelling on this new variant: Neil Fucking Ferguson, Doomsday Predictor General.
Also note the last paragraph there with the quote, after explaining why you should fear for the children this time around..
"If the vaccine is the best news, this is the worst news we've had so far, and we really, really need to tighten down the hatches to stop the spread of this strain while vaccinating as many people as possible."
That's the punchline of the "new" (around since at least Sept and also only one of hundreds of such variants) variant bollix.
And that is after this beauty regarding the kids
"Therefore children are equally susceptible perhaps to this virus as adults, and therefore given their mixing patterns, you would expect to see more children being infected.
It is another fucking vaccine sales pitch and of course the next step will be that vaccine ID for us all. Let's give it a bit of time and see if I'm wrong. Next step kids can't go to school without the jab
Quote from: astfgyl on December 22, 2020, 08:27:08 PM
Next step kids can't go to school without the jab
Should've brought that in years ago when all the numpties started screaming about vaccines causing autism
Lads! Lads! Lads!.......
Neither you, your children, nor your loved ones get this vaccine!
Look what happened to all the people who received the first small pox vaccine in 1798.
They've all died......
Quote from: Trev on December 22, 2020, 08:32:32 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on December 22, 2020, 08:27:08 PM
Next step kids can't go to school without the jab
Should've brought that in years ago when all the numpties started screaming about vaccines causing autism
I don't believe the autism thing as it happens. My kids also have had their jabs up to date, as have I. Even got a couple of bonus tetanus shots over the years. I had another theory about the autism thing, and it's that as the definition was widened over the years, more kids inevitably were defined as such. Or all of the shite in the processed foods we eat would be a more likely candidate for ill effects.
I'm not against vaccines but I know a fucking hard sell when I see one, and just as Ferguson's predictions got us into this they are now being used to predict the virulence of this new strain. How does he keep getting the job? Really, how?
Here is a fact check about his claims which seeks to reject the fact he has made wild predictions but pretty much confirms how wrong he has been: https://theferret.scot/fact-check-neil-ferguson-covid-19-predictions/
Nothing to see here
https://retractionwatch.com/2020/11/27/johns-hopkins-student-newspaper-deletes-then-retracts-article-on-faculty-members-presentation-about-covid-19-deaths/
Quote from: astfgyl on December 22, 2020, 08:27:08 PM
Paywall on your FT article there.
Ah, sorry; I got access no problem...and can assure you I'm not a subscriber to the FT :laugh:
I think I might have used up my quota of free articles lately as it only offers me the sub when I click.
Was reading a few Twitter threads about the changes but I quickly found I was in over my head. Will have to read more. I was wondering though is it actually that much more transmissable or is that simply the dominant strain in that area and the same transmission rate as normal? Sure only time will tell I guess. The south east where it appears most had a fairly soft time in the spring as well so maybe simply more potential hosts there.
Has anyone spared a thought for those in the gay community these last nine months?
Or more specifically, how they greet each other....
"Fist or elbow?"
Well now...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-crematorium-struggles-with-covid-body-backlog-1.4444714
Sounds familiar..... :-[
😂
936 new cases in Ireland I'm reading and yet all I see are fuckers pouring into Ireland for Christmas, if the Irish abroad pages I follow on facebook are anything to go by. Again, none of it makes any sense. The same cunts aswell that would be harping on about wearing masks and keeping distance are the onces that can't spenf a Christmas without Mammy's pudding. Pure cuntish behaviour.
Quote from: Bigmac on December 23, 2020, 03:40:35 PM
Well now...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-crematorium-struggles-with-covid-body-backlog-1.4444714
Really great to see the whole world is singing from the same hymn sheet.
Got my smiley face badge ready for work tomorrow..
Quote from: Bigmac on December 23, 2020, 03:40:35 PM
Well now...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-crematorium-struggles-with-covid-body-backlog-1.4444714
Quote from: Deputy head of police unionWe won't be going door-to-door, but if we get a tip off that rules are being broken somewhere, then we will follow it up
Don't forget to turn on each other this xmas folks and remember - we're all in this together! :D
Quote from: Giggles on December 23, 2020, 11:18:14 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on December 23, 2020, 03:40:35 PM
Well now...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/german-crematorium-struggles-with-covid-body-backlog-1.4444714
Quote from: Deputy head of police unionWe won't be going door-to-door, but if we get a tip off that rules are being broken somewhere, then we will follow it up
Don't forget to turn on each other this xmas folks and remember - we're all in this together! :D
Some guy posted this a few weeks ago on Twitter (I think)....
'This Christmas, if you're thinking of snitching on your neighbours having guests over. Go to your fridge instead and have a nice cold glass of milk.
Y'see, milk is good for your teeth. Just like keeping your mouth shut is!
https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2020/12/23/meet-the-50-doctors-scientists-and-healthcare-entrepreneurs-who-became-pandemic-billionaires-in-2020/?sh=2288d90e5cd9
Yep, we're all in this together but some of us are more in it together than others.
https://youtu.be/MSVNm7XbnYA
Something a bit different there but sort of connected to keeping the gravy train on the rails
Not really surprising that the heads of the companies making the vaccines and the secondary service companies are making bank on it though, pretty expected
It's a communist conspiracy, all of this liberal capitalist opportunism is nothing but cunningly disguised unadulterated communism!
Proof - if more were needed - of...um...well, of something!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/28/russia-admits-to-world-third-worst-covid-19-death-toll-underreported
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
Proof of something indeed.
Here are 2 quotes from that shite in the guardian..
"Russia has been criticised for only listing Covid deaths where an autopsy confirms the virus was the main cause."
Wow, imagine being such fucking eejits to be going off determining the cause of death!
And..
"The Rosstat statistics agency said that the number of deaths from all causes recorded between January and November had risen by 229,700 compared with the previous year."
Indeed it had but here is some data which shows lots of years for Russia including as recently as 2017 to be worse.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/death-rate
What gives?
Don't be copying Kev and ad homineming the source rather than using arguments. From the stats page you linked:
QuoteNOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
Also, an autopsy is not something administered as standard means to determine cause of death. That would incur a cost even countries much richer than Russia would see no reason to spend. What's interesting here, what you have to account for in your narrative, is their change of tune.
Quote from: Trev on December 28, 2020, 10:11:03 PM
Not really surprising that the heads of the companies making the vaccines and the secondary service companies are making bank on it though, pretty expected
Yeah disaster capitalism at its best right there
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 29, 2020, 12:40:51 AM
Don't be copying Kev and ad homineming the source rather than using arguments. From the stats page you linked:
QuoteNOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
Also, an autopsy is not something administered as standard means to determine cause of death. That would incur a cost even countries much richer than Russia would see no reason to spend. What's interesting here, what you have to account for in your narrative, is their change of tune.
The change of tune is exactly what I find the most interesting thing about it. In fact a lot have changed their tune sure look at Sweden suddenly trying to change the rule saying they can't lock down..
And yes autopsies are the exception rather than the rule but when the cause of death is contentious surely they are warranted?
So i checked the Moscow times and it says the worst deaths in a decade and presuming those numbers are right why did no one notice the last big year?
There's a graph of excess deaths in Russia for the last five years in this article:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/12/28/russias-mortality-hit-16-year-high-in-november-official-data-says-a72505
Grand so if the excess is calculated as being over the previous 5 years average, then there will be less excess in say 2017 against the 5 higher years previous to that one, is that how it goes? So a low 2018 and 2019 brings down the 5 year average and allows this one to look exceptional?
Like November is the single worst in 16 years fair enough but life went on as far as I remember even though something more acute seemingly happened in 2004.
It's almost as if all countries are falling into lockstep, so to speak. I find this whole admission highly suspicious as it isn't as if the Russians are known for admitting things. It just adds to the feeling of wrong with everything
Just say what you see man; October and November of this year have seen extraordinarily high mortality rates in Russia. So high that they can no longer try to explain it away with anything other than the thing that is causing extraordinarily high mortality rates in much of the world. That is what happening, going by all available data. Russia can no longer hide behind the smoke and mirrors of "Mother Russia is stronger than the West!" Simply too many bodies!
Yeah you're probably on the money. My suspicion of everything clouds things up a bit at times. Still find Russia admitting anything really out of character though
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 29, 2020, 12:40:51 AM
Don't be copying Kev and ad homineming the source rather than using arguments. From the stats page you linked:
QuoteNOTE: All 2020 and later data are UN projections and DO NOT include any impacts of the COVID-19 virus.
Also, an autopsy is not something administered as standard means to determine cause of death. That would incur a cost even countries much richer than Russia would see no reason to spend. What's interesting here, what you have to account for in your narrative, is their change of tune.
Yeah but doesn't your face redden even a bit when you use links to op-eds from the guardian en lieu of arguments?
Not an op-ed; was from Agence France-Presse.
I'm not following this thread closely, I mean your contributions in other yins :)
More of this to come no doubt.....
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/group-who-destroyed-laois-house-during-illegal-rave-plan-dublin-new-year-s-eve-event-1.4447095
Dopey cunts.
The government might say Level 5 lockdown....
But the people are already saying 'no'...... :abbath:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/lockdown-ireland-hundreds-gather-portmarnock-19542322
Here is a fantastic article which speaks to how I broadly see things these days, ie it's a bad dose which no one wants and while opportunism abounds, it's probably not as coordinated as some of the things I read would have me thinking.
Anyway, have a read of it. I'd say I won't be the only one in agreement with most of it. In a way it reminds me of the stirring speech about the middle ground made by pedro in one of the other threads.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/12/30/what-is-left-to-say/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Pesky public at it again misbehaving and endangering us all with their damned inability to cut themselves off from all human contact.. oh wait..
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/two-thirds-of-covid-deaths-in-december-linked-to-outbreaks-in-hospitals-and-nursing-homes-39917924.html
Focused protection anyone? Although given my earlier thoughts around thinking that the reason for our low death rate was the tightening of protocols in exactly those settings, it also shows that the focused protection approach isn't as easy as it sounds.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 30, 2020, 06:35:41 PM
More of this to come no doubt.....
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/group-who-destroyed-laois-house-during-illegal-rave-plan-dublin-new-year-s-eve-event-1.4447095
These types of pricKs are just scum.and are not our kind.they are the low life's of humanity...I wouldn't judge life on their actions
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 31, 2020, 05:41:34 AM
The government might say Level 5 lockdown....
But the people are already saying 'no'...... :abbath:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/lockdown-ireland-hundreds-gather-portmarnock-19542322
These aren't "the people" they are just a bunch of scankgers
Brother in law sent me a video from China of him in the pub ringing in the new year good style. No masks no social distancing pints flowing all hugging each other no vaccine no pandemic no problem. We are proper fucking eejits in this country and they are actually laughing at us over there. Laughing at us.
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1344709967086047232 :laugh:
https://twitter.com/search?q=Wuhan&src=trend_click&vertical=trends :laugh:
:'(
Quote from: Karlwalsh on January 01, 2021, 02:59:12 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 31, 2020, 05:41:34 AM
The government might say Level 5 lockdown....
But the people are already saying 'no'...... :abbath:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/lockdown-ireland-hundreds-gather-portmarnock-19542322
These aren't "the people" they are just a bunch of scankgers
You know them personally?
Quote from: astfgyl on January 01, 2021, 02:14:58 PM
Brother in law sent me a video from China of him in the pub ringing in the new year good style. No masks no social distancing pints flowing all hugging each other no vaccine no pandemic no problem. We are proper fucking eejits in this country and they are actually laughing at us over there. Laughing at us.
As has been pointed out already, none of the 57 million Chinese people placed on a 10-week hard lockdown last year (which included a shut down of all public transport, airports, etc., even roads in the worst affected areas) were laughing at anyone.
Quote from: astfgyl on January 01, 2021, 02:14:58 PM
Brother in law sent me a video from China of him in the pub ringing in the new year good style. No masks no social distancing pints flowing all hugging each other no vaccine no pandemic no problem. We are proper fucking eejits in this country and they are actually laughing at us over there. Laughing at us.
https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1344709967086047232 :laugh:
https://twitter.com/search?q=Wuhan&src=trend_click&vertical=trends :laugh:
:'(
Xi Jinping and the boys obviously aren't a bunch of spineless cnuts then.
https://www.ejmed.org/index.php/ejmed/article/view/599/337
Says Ivermectin should be subject to large scale trials.
It won't happen because it's too cheap.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 01, 2021, 02:24:04 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on January 01, 2021, 02:14:58 PM
Brother in law sent me a video from China of him in the pub ringing in the new year good style. No masks no social distancing pints flowing all hugging each other no vaccine no pandemic no problem. We are proper fucking eejits in this country and they are actually laughing at us over there. Laughing at us.
As has been pointed out already, none of the 57 million Chinese people placed on a 10-week hard lockdown last year (which included a shut down of all public transport, airports, etc., even roads in the worst affected areas) were laughing at anyone.
No they probably weren't then but they actually are laughing at us now though, sure the lad told me they are. It's sad but it's true.
:'(
First weekend of July please....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40198914.html
Coming to the time for looking at overall excess mortality to measure impact of C19 in somewhat clearer terms.
The only thing is, I notice from the graphs that there is excess every winter to greater or lesser degrees. Shouldn't the average account for this as it's a bit misleading to show deaths as a flat average? In most climates I mean, it's probably flatter nearer the equator and extreme polar regions where things are more constant.
I think even the excess mortality is going to generate the same level of debate as the "from/with" of 2020.
Anyway, here's hoping the endemic has less impact this year than last...
Edit: uh oh... https://www.nysenate.gov//legislation/bills/2021/A416
And to round out today's bit, here is an article from January 2020 which might put today's hospitalisation and ICU admissions in perspective a bit considering they are speaking of this coming week one year ago.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30975933.html%3ftype=amp
95 ICU admissions, zero panic.
Corona is racist... :abbath:
https://youtu.be/pj3iIYa0TUM
Really bad indictment on people in general we cant beat this just through having some discipline.
But sure after 9+ months Corona fatigue was going to always come into play. It's human nature to be social.....
Such is life (and death)......
Quote from: StrangersWithGuns on January 04, 2021, 10:37:28 AM
Really bad indictment on people in general we cant beat this just through having some discipline.
I don't think it's as easy as that. Not letting it in here in the first instance might have went well but once it gets in anywhere it seemingly has to run its course.
Lots of data out there regarding various degrees of lockdown and even of compliance from Google's movement data and there doesn't seem to be a massive difference in being disciplined and not being so.
Sure look at the eastern European countries that avoided the first round and were praised for their compliance and now they are getting a strong dose. Argentina has the world's longest lockdown and has worse stats than Brazil without one. And it goes the other way too, some places with strong discipline did very well and some lax ones got hammered. So it seems to involve more than just being disciplined.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on January 04, 2021, 09:06:20 AM
Corona is racist... :abbath:
https://youtu.be/pj3iIYa0TUM
Wonder if the protests had any bearing on that? Or the vitamin D?
2 friends got it in the last few days and the boss at work had a outbreak in his family house. All related to outbreaks in schools.
Which so far, are being put down to community transmission.
http://137.191.241.85/ed/ED.php
Many ways to interpret this one.
And probably less ways to explain this:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1346932737354002434
Remember the Euronews "No Comment" slot? Hardly seen it since I got riddled with kids..
Quote from: astfgyl on January 06, 2021, 10:08:10 PM
http://137.191.241.85/ed/ED.php
Many ways to interpret this one.
The trolley crisis is caused by the hospitals being full of perfectly healthy people with no where to go. There was an auld lad in Cork living in a private room for nearly two years but he couldn't be released because his family wouldnt take him. The nursing homes take people with Alzheimers and dementia before anyone else. That is what lead to the trolley crisis. I used to type up those reports. You can't interpret it because you don't understand what you are actually looking at because you don't know the context or reasons behind the information.
It's a similar thing with the ICU capacity, people need to be put on ventilators, physiotherapists do this, not nurses or doctors, we don't have enough physios to cope with the current demand. I understand this because I deal with it in my job, as do NPHET obviously. People who just look at numbers and go "but its less than last year" are not getting it.
As I said, many ways to interpret it.
https://www.wionews.com/world/norway-investigating-death-of-two-people-who-received-pfizers-coronavirus-vaccine-354716
Now not saying they did die from the vaccine as that has not been established, but
QuoteMadsen also added that as people of advanced age are receiving the coronavirus vaccine first it is entirely possible that the deaths could be coincidental.
seems a bit unfair not to simply write them off as vaccine deaths as they would have if they had been covid positive. Now before anyone says it's more obvious when the old die of covid, think about the level of asymptomatic positives.
Did a check there on Norway's reporting of deaths and autopsies are not routinely performed there: https://norwaytoday.info/news/professor-wants-autopsy-of-all-coronavirus-deaths/
Saw this then in the links: https://norwaytoday.info/news/more-than-90-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19-in-norway-also-had-a-chronic-disease/
I propose vaccine related deaths be treated the same as covid deaths and simply assumed, given the unknowns involved.
Edit: here is another one to assume as a vaccine death https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/01/06/death-florida-doctor-following-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-under-investigation-gregory-michael/6574414002/
Edit 2: Ah jasus here's more: https://www.timesofisrael.com/88-year-old-dies-hours-after-vaccine-doctors-stress-he-was-seriously-ill/
3: This time it's the immigrants who did it: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9111311/Portuguese-health-worker-41-dies-two-days-getting-Pfizer-covid-vaccine.html
Now I'm not in any way saying that these are vaccine related in the least but it does show bias in the reporting method not to simply say it was that while ignoring any other negative health issues as is done with the daily covid death count. Notice how keen the reports are to stress that the jab is in no way proven to be the cause of death. Which is fair enough because it isn't proven. Same point again..
Another bit on the vaccines here from the BMJ: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/
Worth a read.
In-laws just got decimated by positive cases over the last week down in Spain. The sister of herself's brother-in-law was in hospital giving birth and she, the new-born, their other 2 year old kid, and the father all ended up infected, passed it on to the brother-in-law, who passed it on to his mother and also his other brother-in-law. Half of them symptomatic but doing grand for the moment. Closest explosion of cases to me so far anyway.
Hopefully they will all come out of it in good shape. Hearing of a good few positives round where I am as well, none getting it too bad so far thankfully.
The curious case of Belarus, the new Sweden now that Sweden has decided to build back better.
Life going on full flog, mortality in line with previous years.
I'm sure there is a counter argument but I haven't seen it yet.
Also my pal Luke o Neill says catching it is far more effective than a vaccine. Surprised to hear that from him tbh.
Still reckon I'd rather herd immunity be achieved without my participation but the argument for the great Barrington declaration is as valid as ever.
Could do with beefing up the health service all the same for the future. It would be more cost effective than this shit repeating itself at some stage.
The way cases are going back home, I hope ye buck the trend, but if other countries' past progressions are anything to go by, then it's going to start looking very, very grim in hospitals and morgues in the next 10 days or so. Fingers crossed though!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 11, 2021, 10:14:46 PM
The way cases are going back home, I hope ye buck the trend, but if other countries' past progressions are anything to go by, then it's going to start looking very, very grim in hospitals and morgues in the next 10 days or so. Fingers crossed though!
Yeah it looks bad by all accounts.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1348732228872916993/photo/1
No I haven't spent the 5 minutes to see if it's any good source but he is usually good that way and I also acknowledge that the staffing issues are a thing and I don't see that mentioned
But by most other accounts it is indeed very bad so fingers crossed here too
Edit: doesn't allow for the rush to clear the most pressing of the backlog of surgeries either.
While in some ways i admire all the homework being done and discussion on this here the whole time, sometimes I just have to take a step back and realise that nobody here (to my knowledge) is a doctor, epidemiologist, etc.
I have a two mates who work in hospitals, one in St James and another in Tullamore. Both of them in the pastt week have told me they're getting to near breaking point, calling in emergency staff, people being treated in ambulances... All this joining of dots going on here is just the opposite of what I'm hearing from people I know on the ground, working through this shit every day.
EDIT: regarding that source...who is this guy 'Graham Neary - Stock Market Investor' and why the fuck should I listen to him about anything related to a health emergency.
You shouldn't listen to him at all. I was saying that not everyone agrees before listing out some reasons his figures are debatable. But it's all debatable and that's the point. When something affects everyone in one way or another the debate can't be myopic. What comes next as a result of this is also important, is it to be invest in the health service or build the open prison? Whether the opinion is right or not it's worth knowing that there is one.
We are in a position now where the current response is inevitable. Let's hope that something will be learned from some of it .
Rush administering an untested and unproven vaccine to 70% of the global population is, to my mind, the definition of insanity.
It has unintended and unforeseen consequences of a most serious nature written all over it.
Is there no end to the stupidity and arrogance of human kind?
Considering Neil Peart is dead over a year now, it really would be insane to have Rush administering the vaccine!
A gift, but still hilarious :laugh:
Vaccines are there now for anyone who wants them so let anyone who wants them have them. Just make sure that they understand that they don't stop transmission and that the safety data won't be published for 2 more years before they make the decision.
Personally I'm just made up to be getting into the 30 percent club. It feels so much more exclusive than the 99 percent one that I am already in.
And on current trends that 1 percent are soon to become the 0.1 percent. So then we can all be in the 99.9 club.
In this together!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1349460356595376133
Let's see how this ages. It was last spring so not bad so far.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 14, 2021, 07:22:25 PM
Rush administering an untested and unproven vaccine to 70% of the global population is, to my mind, the definition of insanity.
It has unintended and unforeseen consequences of a most serious nature written all over it.
Is there no end to the stupidity and arrogance of human kind?
Vaccines go through 3 stages before being approved. On stage after another. For this one the three stages were done at the same time hence the quickness and the fact countless millions were thrown at getting one.
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 14, 2021, 08:17:52 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 14, 2021, 07:22:25 PM
Rush administering an untested and unproven vaccine to 70% of the global population is, to my mind, the definition of insanity.
It has unintended and unforeseen consequences of a most serious nature written all over it.
Is there no end to the stupidity and arrogance of human kind?
Vaccines go through 3 stages before being approved. On stage after another. For this one the three stages were done at the same time hence the quickness and the fact countless millions were thrown at getting one.
https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/
136 deaths reported in the last three days for Ireland is what I'm seeing here. Too early yet to say if it's a definite trend, but that does make it the highest 3-day daily average in Ireland since April.
9 deaths in ICU in those 3 days. Where were the rest? Is history repeating itself in the nursing homes? Has ICU capacity been increased in the last 9 months? Has anything been done bar the government giving themselves a couple of pay rises, imprisoning everyone to save their historically underfunded and understaffed health service (excluding administrative positions of course) and then sitting on their hands and hoping the vaccine will get them out of it? So yeah it's a definite trend. Blank cheque to do something.. anything! with; and the solution is to put the country on hold and pay them to stay out of work until the unproven cavalry comes.
And I've heard the argument about staff taking time to train, so has that started yet? Staff are out. That is a fair point and now I hear some are being told it's ok to come in even if a close contact. Makes a great headline. Why not use rapid testing on healthcare staff instead of PCR once a week and combine the result of the rapid test with the absence of symptoms to keep frontline staff from unnecessary absences and/or help prevent nosocomial infections? No?
Nah sure that would be stupid. Run The Press!! We are in shit again!
Source: https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-update-14-january-2021.pdf
And a bit of food for thought from a different plate
https://norwaytoday.info/news/norwegian-medicines-agency-links-13-deaths-to-vaccine-side-effects-those-who-died-were-frail-and-old/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-recovered-coronavirus-patients-have-stronger-protection-than-vaccinated-people-1133149
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+times+immunity+better+than+vaccine&oq=the++times+immunity+better+than+vaccine
Bit of a change of pace the last few days regarding immunity.
Here's a bit of good news. Hopefully it will get approved for use here. It's currently unlicensed in Ireland but there is surely some sort of way around that. By all accounts it's a very promising treatment and could save a decent few lives
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/FLCCC-PressRelease-NIH-Ivermectin-in-C19-Recommendation-Change-Jan15.2021-final.pdf
Here is a great perspective on the current situation. Don't attack it ad hominem, read it and have a go at disagreeing with it instead.
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/breaking-covid-trance-how-irish-people-were-psychologically-manipulated
QuoteSo I think what's going to happen is that eventually it's going to be sort of like, in a year's time you're going to hear the media say, 'We were trying to hold them to account.' They are going to try and spin it, to save themselves, and try to seem like they were always on the side of the public. And the politicians might do something similar, where they'll do this quick change, where they'll change sides.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/luke-o-neill-scientists-have-delivered-against-covid-19-now-the-politicians-need-to-1.4456455 Bit of social distancing between nphet member and government there?
Now, having read the original linked article... take this!... https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/irish-gps-fighting-third-wave-covid-on-the-front-line-of-the-world-s-worst-outbreak-1.4458430 (if you haven't read the first link, don't bother. You'll only be missing the point.)
"world's worst outbreak"
Here's a quote from the last link:
Quote"'It's just a cold. It's just my sinuses. It's my usual.' It's proving quite difficult to convince people that what they think is a sinus infection is probably Covid. Everything new is Covid until proven otherwise. Lots of patients don't have temperatures. Lots don't have coughs."
I tried but I only got this far..
"Nobody knows anybody who's died from this thing, or knows anybody who's been sick from it"
Last person I heard say exactly those same nonsense words was Gemma O'D.
You can support Dave Cullen here "because corporate advertising is not a viable means to sufficiently monetise the important work of independent journalists, philosophers and commentators".
https://computingforever.com/donate/
Quote from: pete on January 17, 2021, 09:08:34 AM
I tried but I only got this far..
"Nobody knows anybody who's died from this thing, or knows anybody who's been sick from it"
Same, glad they put that at the start so I didn't have to waste any more time on it
So did ye play the ball, or the man? Did ye get the point of it at all? I'm no fan of Cullen myself but the guy he is speaking to makes some great points. And the naming of Gemma O' Doherty as a way to instantly discredit what John Anthony is saying is cheap. Disagree with the point of the article no bother, sure I put it in there to get some discussion going.
Here's a SAGE document covering the same things spoken about in the article I quoted. Of course having neglected to read the article, appendix B won't mean much.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/882722/25-options-for-increasing-adherence-to-social-distancing-measures-22032020.pdf
"Nobody knows anybody who's died from this thing, or knows anybody who's been sick from it"
That is very much the ball, in the sense that it's idiotic nonsense regardless of what man (or woman, in the case of G O'D) happens to be playing it. They did better than me though; I stopped reading myself when the intro tried to tell me that a hypnoanalyst was, apparently, in a privileged position to have a clear global view and understanding of what was going on. That's what's called an appeal to authority (an appeal, precisely, to play the man and not the ball), and a fucking ludicrous one at that.
Quote from: pete on January 17, 2021, 09:36:42 AM
You can support Dave Cullen here "because corporate advertising is not a viable means to sufficiently monetise the important work of independent journalists, philosophers and commentators".
https://computingforever.com/donate/
What has that got to do with it? Every source anywhere wants paying for their time, be it through advertising revenue or private donation. I didn't donate for what it's worth and I do subscribe to The Guardian even though I find myself constantly disagreeing with it.
https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1350163852948856835
https://twitter.com/CDCgov/status/1350184490338045954
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/deaths-spur-norway-concern-at-covid-vaccine-safety-for-vulnerable-elderly-1.4460430
So what is the point of it again?
You subscribe to the Guardian? Jaysus. Although I subscribe to the Irish independent, and I buy Le Monde every Sunday to keep the French tipping along and both annoy me frequently.
That Dave Cullen is an awful dose of a man, but I also fail to see the point you are making by pointing out that he would like some cash from his viewers.
The Guardian is free, you just have to have an account to access certain content, but that's free too. Le Monde is far worse than it; same hugely biased content, paid subscription, and yet absolutely full of ads for bullshit sponsored content. They even paywall content like tribunes/manifestos that are regularly submitted at no cost to the paper by various interest groups. Thankfully, when absolutely necessary, I can read for free via uni library.
Quote from: astfgyl on January 17, 2021, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: pete on January 17, 2021, 09:36:42 AM
You can support Dave Cullen here "because corporate advertising is not a viable means to sufficiently monetise the important work of independent journalists, philosophers and commentators".
https://computingforever.com/donate/
What has that got to do with it? Every source anywhere wants paying for their time, be it through advertising revenue or private donation. I didn't donate for what it's worth and I do subscribe to The Guardian even though I find myself constantly disagreeing with it.
I just thought it was funny that he was presumably including himself in the "important work of independent journalists, philosophers and commentators".
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 17, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
The Guardian is free, you just have to have an account to access certain content, but that's free too. Le Monde is far worse than it; same hugely biased content, paid subscription, and yet absolutely full of ads for bullshit sponsored content. They even paywall content like tribunes/manifestos that are regularly submitted at no cost to the paper by various interest groups. Thankfully, when absolutely necessary, I can read for free via uni library.
The only reason I buy Le Monde is because I like to have a real newspaper on a Sunday and it's almost impossible to get any other French newspaper here from the kiosks. At 3.60 a go, it's a weekly rather than daily self indulgence.
Is the guardian online completely free? The Irish Indo certainly isn't. There are five of us sharing the one login, 28 a year, each.
Totally free. They live off voluntary contributions and ads. I'd say the paper version of Le Monde is less annoying than the web version.
The odd entire page of ads for Carrefour aside, it's grand. It also gets to French business before the inevitable Trump/Biden shite, which I get in in more dynamic form right here :)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 17, 2021, 02:55:22 PM
The Guardian is free, you just have to have an account to access certain content, but that's free too. Le Monde is far worse than it; same hugely biased content, paid subscription, and yet absolutely full of ads for bullshit sponsored content. They even paywall content like tribunes/manifestos that are regularly submitted at no cost to the paper by various interest groups. Thankfully, when absolutely necessary, I can read for free via uni library.
I donated to The Guardian. At the time I felt it was only fair considering how much I was reading it and how often they reminded me that their particular brand of quality journalism was worth a few pence.
The Indo are looking for sick money for the sub.
Quote from: pete on January 17, 2021, 02:57:01 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on January 17, 2021, 02:01:15 PM
Quote from: pete on January 17, 2021, 09:36:42 AM
You can support Dave Cullen here "because corporate advertising is not a viable means to sufficiently monetise the important work of independent journalists, philosophers and commentators".
https://computingforever.com/donate/
What has that got to do with it? Every source anywhere wants paying for their time, be it through advertising revenue or private donation. I didn't donate for what it's worth and I do subscribe to The Guardian even though I find myself constantly disagreeing with it.
I just thought it was funny that he was presumably including himself in the "important work of independent journalists, philosophers and commentators".
I get you now. He must be suffering from delusions of grandeur. I would have him down as a full time conspiracy theorist, and a lot of those theories are wildly speculative at best but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Might stretch to commentator. Might.
I go to The Guardian a lot, but I wouldn't pay them for the typo-ridden, buzz-word laden, echo-chamber resounding shite they've been increasingly publishing on a daily basis for the last few years. I am subscribed to the New York Times, although I rarely go there apart from to search the microfiche style archives for work...and the sooner I'm finished with that and can cancel the subscription, the better.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 17, 2021, 04:02:30 PM
I go to The Guardian a lot, but I wouldn't pay them for the typo-ridden, buzz-word laden, echo-chamber resounding shite they've been increasingly publishing on a daily basis for the last few years. I am subscribed to the New York Times, although I rarely go there apart from to search the microfiche style archives for work...and the sooner I'm finished with that and can cancel the subscription, the better.
Cancelling a New York Times subscription via their proper channels involves ringing them or contacting them via Web chat. Sneaky. The worst kind of sneaky haha
It was the live text commentary that got me going to The Guardian in the first place. I find their soccer coverage to be decent a lot of the time. Whenever I read the news section I'm dismayed at the bias but I can't think of any source which that doesn't apply to.
Is that serious about the NYT subscription? Sounds like trying to escape the clutches of Eir
Quote from: astfgyl on January 17, 2021, 04:26:02 PM
It was the live text commentary that got me going to The Guardian in the first place. I find their soccer coverage to be decent a lot of the time. Whenever I read the news section I'm dismayed at the bias but I can't think of any source which that doesn't apply to.
Is that serious about the NYT subscription? Sounds like trying to escape the clutches of Eir
Yep still in their terms and conditions, and california is 24/7 because they brought in a law that said l if you could sign up on line then you should be able to cancel online. Obviously they implement a shitty online way. You just know the cancel API is there and used by the person you are ringing/chatting to. It's something that annoys me maybe too much!
" by calling Customer Care at (800) 591-9233. If you are in the U.S. our hours are 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. E.T. Monday to Friday, and 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. E.T. on weekends and holidays. You can also contact us via chat by clicking the Chat button on the top right of this page between 7 a.m. and 10 p.m. E.T. Monday – Friday, and 7 a.m. and 3 p.m. E.T. on weekends and holidays (or 24 hours a day 7 days a week for subscribers in California)."
I see there's a politician sponsoring a bill in the NY Senate, A416. It would give the governor, in cases of declared medical state of emergency, the power to forcibly detain anyone even suspected of being in contact with a carrier.
If this law gets passed, I would not put it past Cuomo to announce that he's heard DuhBlasio's been in the vicinity of a case, and have him detained, the cunt is that petty. Well, both of them are that petty.
The rounding up of dissenters of all types wouldn't be long coming if that passed. It puts me in mind of a few things from history. The extra good news is that it doesn't only apply to covid and can be used for all sorts of emergencies.
It's weird shit like this that puts me against all the covid regulations, which is a shame because a lot of people are sick and I'd do most of it by consent anyway. I had a feeling since the beginning it would all turn out like this. Well not exactly this, but the wealth transfer and economic collapse. The way it's headed is pure nightmare stuff and so much of it is fuck all to do with public health.
Zu den Kammern.....
https://youtu.be/fTdF5PLGzLs
Here is a nice balanced article regarding the swedish situation for 2020 and addresses the idea of spin with some nice ways of interpreting the figures. It gives a good sense of how slippery a fish all of this data is, despite how plentiful it is these days.
Have a read of it, it's impartial and a lot of the conclusions and criticisms of the swedish response can also be applied to here, even though the approaches were different in many ways.
https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2021/01/15/final-report-on-swedish-mortality-2020-anno-covid
And like the author of the piece, I'm also going to leave this thread off for the most part unless something genuinely new happens because at this stage I don't think many people are going to change their minds about it all one way or another.
I'm just going to look forward to the new variants which will conveniently arise (in the media, because they have been known to science since last spring, well before they became useful and publicised) whenever we think we can see some light at the end of the tunnel and watch everything we all thought would never happen in this day and age unfold on the back of our collective fears, protective instincts and inherent good nature.
Time to go pick on Biden or Trump supporters or the like and get stuck into the recommended non metal thread.
Do read the link though, I promise it's not Dave Cullen.
Goede jongens in het Netherlands..... :abbath:
https://www.thejournal.ie/netherlands-protests-explainer-5334913-Jan2021/
Burn! Burn! Burn! :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
Lockdown till the 5th of March lads. Whoo-hooo....
https://www.thejournal.ie/mandatory-quarantine-cabinet-5334987-Jan2021/
https://www.newsweek.com/covid-anal-swabs-beijing-residents-more-accurate-says-chinese-expert-1564381?amp=1&fbclid=IwAR1V4pKhqvnDoK8eY2nbyDXnoFtnSY0tZftKdZBuGicpoXAPY2j_-8XYlNU&
I think this says it all.
Wha?
Check again I fixed the link
Bummer.... :laugh:
Trump supporter loses it after being asked to wear a mask....
http://pressbull.com/woman-freaks-out-after-she-wasnt-allowed-on-the-bus-for-not-wearing-a-mask/
That's one hell of a like to dislike ratio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPYx12xJFUQ&ab_channel=WorldEconomicForum
Off with the 1% heads :abbath: mega rich scum!
Quote from: Bigmac on January 28, 2021, 07:56:40 AM
That's one hell of a like to dislike ratio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPYx12xJFUQ&ab_channel=WorldEconomicForum
That's one hell of a convenient and overblown "pandemic" we got here. 99.8% survival ratio, flu gone, all world leaders ready to go all of a sudden with this great reset which could only be made possible by something like a pandemic. Then a pandemic comes along. Better polish off those tinfoil hats because it's either that or a nice new set of blinkers. Fucking sickening and just watch how this great
reset wealth transfer works out for us all. Now we know why almost no government in the world would listen to any common sense or peer reviewed papers about how to handle the covid issue, and also why any who didn't go with the lockdowns and restrictions were vilified in the media. Then they have the cheek to make that poxy video about trust and how we all have to work together and how it's definitely not a conspiracy. Fuck sake.
And as for the like/dislike ratio.. it will be scrubbed clean by youtube just like the Biden inauguration was.
That approach of "it's definitely not a conspiracy, and you really, really need to trust us" is pretty funny.
The comment section is a wild ride too.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/12/k-shaped-covid19-coronavirus-recovery
Here is a nice overview of how it is going from the bollixes. K shaped recovery.
Anal Schwab
"You'll bend over, and you'll be happy"
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210128/china-using-anal-swabs-for-covid-testing
Finally. Something to be cheerful about.
:abbath:...BURN.... :abbath:
https://youtu.be/rmewEVzjOJQ
Quote from: Bigmac on January 29, 2021, 04:26:26 PM
Anal Schwab
"You'll bend over, and you'll be happy"
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210128/china-using-anal-swabs-for-covid-testing
Man, I'd much prefer to get a quick one up the hoop then deal with another nasal swab
Quote from: Trev on January 30, 2021, 02:32:47 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on January 29, 2021, 04:26:26 PM
Anal Schwab
"You'll bend over, and you'll be happy"
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210128/china-using-anal-swabs-for-covid-testing
Man, I'd much prefer to get a quick one up the hoop then deal with another nasal swab
Aye, up the bum, no harm done.
Having had the nasal swab, I also fail to see how the anal one could be much worse. Story gave me a good laugh all the same.
Here's something I just saw https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9219379/amp/Why-coronavirus-cases-falling-fast-New-infections-drop-44-three-weeks.html
Anyone have any idea what is with that? My guess is that it is in fact seasonal despite many saying it isn't and has little to do with measures. However, that doesn't do anything to explain the uniform drop because seasons vary worldwide. So maybe something to do with the new advice around testing issued by the WHO on 21 January.
Either way it's good news.
Quotethe UK - which has been under lockdown since January 6 - is now seeing just 23,355 new cases on an average day, down from its January 9 peak of nearly 60,000
The answer is right there. Countries globally are in various states of preventative measures. It's also why flu is down this season.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 03, 2021, 10:49:18 PM
Quotethe UK - which has been under lockdown since January 6 - is now seeing just 23,355 new cases on an average day, down from its January 9 peak of nearly 60,000
The answer is right there. Countries globally are in various states of preventative measures. It's also why flu is down this season.
Florida.
There are over 30 papers saying lockdowns do very little. Give me a bit of time I'll link a few. I think logic says lockdown must do something, but doesn't explain the drop in regions which don't do it.
Thailand.
Sweden.
South Dakota.
Also, the flu question is far from settled. Viral dominance is as legitimate a train of thought as the distancing. Susceptibility to covid as a new virus doesn't explain the complete lack of flu.
Brazil
Sweden didn't do nothing at all though, contrary to popular belief, and they upped their measures in December. I know nothing of your other examples though, to be fair.
No you're right about Sweden. There is a common misconception on both sides of that, that nothing was done and that they fared worse than heavy lockdown places. They did do some stuff and fared neither worse nor better than many places. Cost/benefit shows them winning a bit though.
The other ones are worth a look.
Preprint here from john Ioannidis
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.22.20160341v3
Links to peer reviewed ones in the comments underneath
Posted in December, but the data used is only up to July 2020.
Aye, it goes back a bit. There are plenty more using the oxford stringency index vs outcomes, which show no real correlation as well. I'll go find some others but Ioannidis was a good name for the start. I didn't want to get some fringe shit
I wondered if hermits got sick but couldn't find anything. My guess is they shouldn't, but they are hermits, so it's not worth it for the likes of me.
I think lockdown has to work but don't think it explains the current drop worldwide because there are too many policy variations and yet it is doing its thing. Combo of seasonality and new WHO testing guidelines I reckon and measures would have to come into it as well, but given the first two factors, surely the response of the third should change
The banal cliche, age is just a number. No. I suspect there may be a little more to it than that.
It's said in a kind of fluff-brained optimistic way.
Wrong thread maybe?
Oh astfygl.......
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-04/sweden-to-introduce-digital-vaccination-certificates-this-summer
:-X
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on February 04, 2021, 05:24:26 PM
Oh astfygl.......
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-04/sweden-to-introduce-digital-vaccination-certificates-this-summer
:-X
:'(
My own quote from May 17th 2020
QuoteIs it that the extent of this virus has been twisted in a way that helps to line the pockets of some large commercial interests and that fear is being used as a tool to convince the populace to relinquish their human rights and to create an acceptance that they need to be dictated to rather than advised on how to look after themselves by governments all over the world, while decreasing resistance to technological surveillance techniques being deployed on a massive scale by using the public health vs freedom debate and the use of privately owned mass media outlets and other institutions such as privately funded scientific research to tip the scales in favour of those who would benefit from the proliferation of said surveillance and who also stand to make massive financial gains from the crippling of worldwide economies? I don't know.
Now I do know. And so does everyone else.
We're being Chris'ed bro....
Hard enough to get a normal passport in this country. Imagine what a shambles this will turn into....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/02/05/these-european-countries-are-launching-vaccine-passports/
Turn into? As in it's not already a shambles? Either that or it's going perfectly to plan. Take your pick, all answers are bad.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00193-8/fulltext
This as well https://twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1358655460438466563/photo/1
Video here as well around lockdowns https://cdn.lbryplayer.xyz/api/v4/streams/free/jay-w-richards-apocalypse-2020/6c56b37593e805fd3e403cf11a699d37b69e971e/deba7d
Video is well worth the watch
Scotland's ski resorts have the best snow in years.... and guess what? They're closed.... :laugh:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14014626/bristol-covid-variant-reinfect-vaccinated/
Are we ready? So now the vaccine will be a waste of time unless we keep getting more and more of them for every new variant that somebody decides to speculate on. We will be like pin cushions and still no closer to freedom.
This is never going away.
Honest question here for anyone. How long more would you be prepared to put up with this before turning sour and saying fuck it not complying? Even the most avid lockdown fan must have a limit to their patience.
Like it's obvious that every time it looks like there is light at the end of the tunnel, there is somebody ready to announce a new variant and also none of the variants have actually been proven to be any worse but that doesn't stop governments running with it. We all know about the government and the brown envelopes from developers, why do we suddenly think they wouldn't get involved with anything like that with the pharmaceutical companies? Are they all good guys now?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1349460356595376133
This lad is looking more accurate by the day. Look how he predicts that the vaccine won't work and we will still have to wear masks and socially distance and more lockdowns. Now read the link at the top again. So what is the point exactly, if getting it changes nothing?
Quite a few of, shall we say, God fearing people I know are already starting to grumble.
We're a year into this shit storm next month and I think we'll start to see public opinion start to sway away from our fearless leaders and onto things like holidays, seeing loved ones and not fucking living on our knees. I can't fucking wait!
No mention on our news here about businesses and people taking the situation back in various places around Europe. Poland is in full swing since the beginning of last month as far as I know.
Although in fairness, there's not much of a social welfare safety net over there.
But the upheaval is starting and once it snowballs I think that'll be it for these grovelling shits of leaders. Enough's enough and we'll know exactly how it's going to pan out by summer I'd say...
I'd say by the end of the summer if were not back to near normal through mass vaccinations or there's not a definite end in sight it'll start to get ugly. I agree with the lockdowns to get to the mass vacvination stage but if it's pointless (which currently i don't think it is) then were going to have to go back to normality and that's it really.
Ron DeSantis.
Legend.
Looked at the available evidence, didn't send covid patients into nursing homes, opened everything up after a 3 hour meeting with some of the great Barrington declaration crowd last August. Went for focused protection model using rapid testing in hospitals and NH settings. Still have covid but for comparison are doing better than California, who had some of the toughest restrictions in the US, at the moment. Believes in living with instead of hiding from. Done away with mask mandate. Has the stones to go against the narrative and make a decision for the good of all in his state and stand over it instead of running with the hysteria. Gets bad press for being a trump ally but very popular in his own state. Basically an example of dealing with the situation rationally, without destroying economy or society. And in a state full of seniors.
I'm using California as comparison because of latitude and climate similarities.
I linked the meeting he had with those experts last August and was highly impressed with the chap. It's back in this thread, I'll dig it up in a bit although I doubt many will go through the full meeting like I did. I have been convinced since then that this is all being done the wrong way with the lockdowns etc, and it must have worked on him as well because he opened it all up the following day
Edit: and that's not to say that no one in Florida worries about covid or anything like that, but they are trusted to look after themselves and take the precautions as they see fit.
You're fairly certain of this declaration that is very much on the fringe of sciencific communities, has been shown to have many fake and/or unverified names amongst it's 6,000 signatures, has dodgy funding behind it by groups linked to oil companies and climate change denial, and doesn't seem to have much of an actual practical strategy behind it other than 'protect the vulnerable'...as a solution to dealing with a virus which we still don't fully understand the long term impact of.
That's of course not to say that lockdowns aren't taking an awful toll on society, particularly in poorer countries I'd imagine. But I dunno man, between this and your last few sources being the Sun newspaper and some random ranting muppet on a Twitter video...it's hard to see much credibility in some of the arguments you're making.
The muppet on the Twitter video is indeed a muppet but I put that there because he has been right so far. It is fully liable to be proven wrong, as am I. So far he is going well with his predictions. If he turns out wrong, I'll laugh along with everyone else at both him and me.
Can't remember what the Sun one was, but it surely declares its sources in it so back to the ball not the man.
Of course the GBD has fake names on something that can be signed by the public. Nothing can be done about that and they have started verifying the signers ages ago but I bet some will still be there. Anyway the thing about it is that it opens the idea of having another point of view about it all which is sorely lacking from the main thrust of the discussion in general. The main drivers of it are far from fringe as well if you check them out.
Sources aside, my main source is my own gut feeling that something is badly wrong with the way this has gone and is going. The stuff I find and post usually just say things i was thinking all by myself. Also this is a discussion forum and discussion is seemingly impossible in the main media sources, so I welcome any other views whether they agree or not with mine. I've no interest in the echo chamber there's always a discussion it's not a religion I'm after.
Also, all those pushing lockdown are either making money from it or are unaffected by it. That is no way to do things in general. Like it's a thing, it's bad for a lot of people no disputing that but the conversation is so one sided even now that far more is known than last year regarding who is vulnerable and also people aren't dropping in the streets like we all feared, yet the plan remains the same and no end in sight.
If you've any interest I can dig out the DeSantis video and you can see it and look at how Florida is going, or I can put up other stuff or sites where I do find things and vet the sources. I don't read shite where possible and I'm getting a lot better at sorting the wheat from the chaff while of course still taking the medicine of getting pulled up on things here.
Follow the money as well turns up so many conflicts of interest it would make your head spin. Like I've no bother reading anything that says I have it all wrong. In so many ways I would love to be all wrong about it and it's all above board. No messing.
I was going to say in my last post -- and should have said -- that I wasn't trying to have a go at you and to be fair you clearly have taken a genuine interest in all of this since the beginning of the thread and it's easy to see you go to lengths to read and source information. Ill put my hands up and admit I definitely can't bring myself to spend loads of time reading into the sciencific debate surrounding all of this, at least not the amount of time it would take where I'd be comfortable in saying I have a solid understanding of it. Besides, it would drive me fucking mad going down those rabbit holes as I think you yourself have claimed has happened to you a couple of times ::)
I watched a debate there recently on Democracy Now's YT channel where they had a guy supporting the GBD and somebody else disagreeing with it. Yer man for the GBD didn't come across as very convincing to me, had some obviously relevant points but also a lot of over simplified answers or glossing over tough questions.
I guess the main takeaway is it seems too problematic to be an alternative solution, for many reasons which we could exhaust here endlessly and which I'm not prepared/equipped to do. For me comes down to perhaps the now-clichéd answer "I'm not an epidemiologist, etc.", so I'll stay content in trusting the majority opinion of those who are. That doesn't really add much to the discussion I know, but then again I genuinely don't see this lasting forever or share some of the concerns you do regarding the sinister nature behind how it's being dealt with.
Double post, clicked quote not edit.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2021, 10:43:22 PM
In a way I wish I hadn't gotten sceptical about it all because I would certainly be a lot happier no doubt about it. The GBD to me is only a starting point to a wider discussion. It doesn't go into enough detail for my liking either, but the long video of their discussion with DeSantis was far more detailed. For what it's worth I don't think I know fuck all either beyond what I read or hear from other people who give more time to it than me and I prefer if they are more qualified than me as well
I didn't take it as a dig at me in the slightest either, all the things I say are there to be poked at and I thought your reply came across as perfectly reasonable. Sure what I do be saying goes against everything I see in the paper or on the telly and radio so I'd be more surprised if nobody thought it was a bit off.
Decent thread here that someone put together. Well sourced and plenty of info from the very basic to the very technical. It's a long one but a good read.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1361601758305390596.html
And again Florida gets a mention for being first to insist the CT Value be published with positive test results. Being fair, even the WHO have finally addressed the fact there is an issue with the values in January, many moons after the crazy conspiracy theorists pointed it out. But those guys are crazy.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/covid-19-new-variant-with-potentially-worrying-mutations-found-in-uk-1.4485832?mode=amp
Aww now isn't that a shame, a potentially worrying mutation may or might possibly evade the natural antibodies built from infection but thankfully another stamp on the vaccine passport (papers please!) should help to neutralise this potentially pesky possibly and more whatever strain.
The main thing is, thank god that there is an early warning system in place so these new lads can be sequenced and vaccinated against in advance before they ever get the chance to get you. You needn't worry about it, it's only another stamp on the old immunity passport that you scan absolutely everywhere you go. The only minor issue is that we might need to keep lockdowns on the cards until everyone has the update, but we are getting faster all the time with all the experience we have built up at vaccinating the entire population at a stroke.
Just tip on down to the local mass vaccination hub and we can get that QR code updated for you. Make sure to keep your mask on in the meantime and keep within the prescribed travel limit unless it's for essential reasons, a list of which is available on your passport app, or to visit your nearest vaccination centre. Please do not visit family or friends before your latest monthly update is confirmed.
It can take up to three weeks to reach a critical mass of the population each month, so please remember to adhere to the regulations and let's keep that curve flattened together! #NotATechnocraticDystopianNightmareVersionOfReality
#HoldFirm
#FlattenTheCurve
Also remember that when it was flatten the curve time last year, covid was thought to be around 10 times more deadly than it actually is, with wild projections based on mathematical models predicting far more of everything (remember those nice videos from China of people collapsing in the streets) and the constant messages of fear and heroic deeds dominating the headlines worldwide, to inspire the response.
Imagine accepting the same response for the flu back in 2018. Really imagine it. For anyone unfamiliar with 2018, check out the number of deaths in Europe for that winter. Then look at what is happening in front of all of our eyes.
Edit... nevermind, I actually couldn't be arsed engaging with this anymore on this forum.
Took you long enough to realise that... :laugh:
You're not wrong.
Oh don't mind that old rant up there, that was just one of many possible scenarios. Sort of like how the great reset website says their claims that by 2030 we will own nothing and be happy were only only one possible scenario and not to worry too much about it.
Funnily enough I was offered a booking for the shot today in work and told at the same time it wasn't mandatory. So there's that at least.
Until the goalposts are moved once more.
Edit: ah here we go...
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-vaccine-variants-third-shot-bill-gates/
Then there is this:
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/02/17/how-deadly-is-covid19/
All fully justified and above board all of this lark. I was silly to ever doubt the privately funded experts
Just gonna stick together a few messages a Dublin nurse friend shared in our WhatsApp group a couple of days ago:
QuoteWe lost a lovely colleague to Covid yesterday, a porter. He was bang on, a sound Scottish lad😢. There will be a guard of honour for him today.
Also, my manager who only turned 41 last week, was just discharged from hospital a few days ago. She spent 17 days in ICU on ventilator. Very glad she's finally back to her kids.
She's not quite recovered yet, it's going to be a long road. I think she was discharged as she is a nurse and will get support at home from her friends who are also nurses.
Let's say, if it was one of you, you would be still be in hospital or sent to rehab.
She has to relearn how to eat, hold things, walk....
as I said it will be a long road but at least she survived.
The Kent variant has been very aggressive but starting to see the end of the third wave. Admissions and positive cases in the hospital have plummeted in the past week. Let's hope for everyone's sake it stays that way but it's all very depressing for anyone.
That's rough. Hopefully they will get well. All those individual stories are indeed sad and indeed someday may be avoidable as more is learned about therapeutics to deal with the severe cases.
I didn't compile this one, but when I googled "flu stories", this was the top result:
https://www.familiesfightingflu.org/family-stories/
Heartbreaking stuff all round. Here's a taster of the first page
QuoteOur family stories put a face on the flu and illustrate why we're so driven in our mission. Flu is a serious disease and we are all at risk, regardless of age, gender, health status, ethnicity, or lifestyle. We share these emotional family stories to educate others about the importance of flu prevention and annual flu vaccination for everyone six months and older.
Here you'll learn about various stories such as a four-year-old girl who went to bed with mild flu-like symptoms, never to wake up; a six-month-old baby boy who died only 30 hours after showing his first symptoms of being sick; and a 33-year-old woman who survived flu, but was hospitalized for three months and suffered an amputation above the knee as a result of her illness.
I don't recall everyone showing such concern for these individual cases of the flu or indeed for all the old people it kills every year. Where were the hysterical news reports and headlines and lockdowns then in the face of this cruel and indiscriminate killer virus? Every individual death is a tragedy and I wouldn't wish it on anybody or their family.
But the world needs to get a grip of itself. Life is going to be permanently changed as a result of the approach taken to combat this seasonal and endemic virus and not for the better. And it is not going to be done democratically either.
Also no vaccine passports for flu, no opportunity for a great reset and no experimental mRNA therapy for a virus that mutates constantly and claims hundreds of thousands of victims a year even with the presence of a vaccine.
Covid 19 is real and certainly dangerous. The response to covid 19 is pure unadulterated bullshit. Follow the money, look who funds the lockdown pushers, think about who is profiting and what agenda it is suiting. It's easy to write off everything I say about it and I wouldn't blame anyone who did but definitely have at least one go at looking for conflicts of interest with those pushing the response to this. Also look into the swine flu scandal and look at the rogues gallery pushing that one and see how many of them are involved in the current situation.
9 more weeks lads. I'm going utterly loopy with this lads
You're optimistic.
Just another 9 weeks and we'll get that curve flattened. #holdfirm
Oh astfygl........
Over 70% of people in Ireland think we should have a tavel vaccine certificate.....
We're doomed lad......
https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-should-ireland-introduce-vaccine-certificates-for-travel-5359240-Feb2021/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on February 19, 2021, 11:11:24 AM
Oh astfygl........
Over 70% of people in Ireland think we should have a tavel vaccine certificate.....
We're doomed lad......
https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-should-ireland-introduce-vaccine-certificates-for-travel-5359240-Feb2021/
Guarantee that poll is a load of shite. The next poll will say 90 percent think we shouldn't go into a shop without one, even though we are grand to go now. Those passports are nothing to do with any virus.
Anyone wondering why the figures are dropping in hospitals? Is it because we are all behaving now? Maybe..
https://mobile.twitter.com/GregHughes2/status/1362412756775936006
Don't worry about the Twitter link, it's legit and the source is named and the audio is attached.
Another 9 weeks of fucking lockdown
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1362522700158291979
Creepy as fuck. Basically blackmailing an entire population. "you can see your family and friends again if you just take the vaccine". Whether it works or not or turns out to be completely harmless or not, that is as creepy as fuck. Nightmare stuff.
You can see your friends and family again once the population immunity has risen sufficiently. I don't suppose you'd find it creepy if an identical spot was made promoting a different route to herd immunity, but the end objective is identical. You've just primed yourself to react negatively to anything that leans in a certain direction. Quite possibly this spot will achieve very little, but I guess people are just trying to do what they can think of to combat all the absolute horseshit about vaccines that circulates on social media, including WhatsApp.
No it's the language that is creepy. They actually said to take it to see your friends and family. Whatever about addressing unfounded rumours that's fair enough because I've read a lot of shit about it as well. There have been many spots encouraging people to get it, just as there is with the flu shot every year and I've no problem with it. Having people over a barrel to take something that is not yet proven to work is the part that creeps me out. Say it works and shit goes back to normal, fair enough but that's not proven at all yet. Also, shit is never going back to normal no matter what the vaccine does or doesn't do, so it's a false promise. Many people are seeing their friends and family regardless and have been doing it since the beginning without the shot. Can't imagine any other approach getting an ad like that either.
Not explicitly said, but it does seem to be targeting older folk from ethnic minority groups too, the ones who are most at risk among the most at risk.
Yeah I read that bit, that the BAME communities are the most paranoid about taking it and it might be with the very best of intentions as there is some evidence that those groups seem to be disproportionally affected by covid. There is a school of thought as well that the reason for this is less to do with genetics than it is to do with social status and the ability to work from home, but that is thus far unproven either. Also I may as well state that I hope the vaccine does work and I'm not against the idea in principle whatsoever. I just found that ad made my skin crawl.
Then of course the skepticism is not helped by things like this newsweek "fact check" https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-india-ban-pfizer-covid-vaccine-biontech-coronavirus-1570158
Have a read of that and tell me if you see anything wrong with it.
All those wacky theorists with their crazy covid trojan horse ideas... as if there was some sort of evidence of chicanery or something. Crazy bastards, thinking there might be something involving a globalist organisation of elites happening right under our noses in the guise of public safety. Nah, couldn't happen. Not in this day and age..
https://mobile.twitter.com/wef/status/1364258722898452481
Lol
In 2030 you'll own nothing and you'll be happy. All we need is a global event to usher in the new era. If only one would come along..
Small bit of vaccine data here from the UK government regarding adverse effects. What it doesn't do is give the number of shots given to allow for a risk assessment and also doesn't mention what level of severity or length of duration so it's not saying anything for or against the shot, it's just figures for anyone curious enough.
https://t.co/MejYM99zzI?amp=1
Can't wait for the doctor to read them all out as part of a policy of informed consent.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PerpetualValue/status/1364602149829816325
Isn't it crazy, the notion that "if the punishment for a crime is a fine, then that crime only exists for the lower classes" seems so absurd and horribly skewed on the face of it but is also how it all works?
That's no connection to the link btw but I was talking about it the other day with a chap and we were thinking about that concept.
So why is the punishment a fine and not immediate arrest and quarantine if the risk to public health is so great?
Can't really be justified can it?
Hope ye are all acting as if ye have it and are infectious to the point where ye won't touch your family or bird because if you love them you wouldn't endanger them by giving them this deadly virus by touching them.
If you are touching them then you must think that asymptomatic transmission isn't a thing, or you just don't care if you kill the people you love
It would make you think, wouldn't it?
A wee counter argument piece to all of the existential dread being posted here recently, just to balance the discussion a bit.
www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2021/2/25/vaccine-passports-get-used-to
Quote from: Nazgûl on February 25, 2021, 01:41:03 PM
A wee counter argument piece to all of the existential dread being posted here recently, just to balance the discussion a bit.
www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2021/2/25/vaccine-passports-get-used-to
Let's be fair, it could do with a bit of balancing out. In here anyway if not on the national media.
It seems like a fair enough argument for getting the thing until this: "Getting the vaccine is safe and there are no known long-term side effects"
Well of course they aren't known, it's spanking new stuff. I get the international travel to an extent as well but mark my words this won't stop there.
I'm going to wait until the trial stage ends in 2023 though, but I still think it should be available for anyone who wants it and all the best to anyone who does.
Here is something for anyone who doesn't want to be pressured into taking it https://www.nyatider.nu/council-of-europe-no-compulsory-vaccinations-and-no-discrimination-against-the-unvaccinated/
Luckily, Ireland subscribes to the council of Europe so should have a hard time locking up those who choose not to have it.
Some nice words from Bill & Melinda.... ❤️
https://www.gatesnotes.com/2021-Annual-Letter?WT.mc_id=20210127000000_AL2021_BG-PDM-PYT-CoInBisProT1-AL2&WT.tsrc=BGPDM-PYT&gclid=CjwKCAiA1eKBBhBZEiwAX3gql_F6TsKo-MUBn7l6hOzxjUJeelVF1O69CaR6Dw_1ApagcseYYhUs0xoCob0QAvD_BwE
That's nice from Billy boy there fair play to him.
Our pals at the WEF are equally adept at seeing the bright side of things..
https://mobile.twitter.com/wef/status/1365614687514165248
astfgyl, Out of interest, what do you make of the protests in Dublin today?
I think it was self defeating once some knob let a firework off at the guards. It could have been a grand idea but the headlines now are of scumbags and the far right so it backfired.
Regular folks who are not happy with the lockdown should still get together and show their unhappiness with things without the bollix and they should have self policed by delivering that prick to the guards and shown that they don't tolerate violence in their name.
The government will be delighted with him all the same, whoever he was.
Ya, this is it. That spa has taken all the spotlight now.
The media are reporting on him entirely now and nothing about the rest of the people there who did nothing wrong. It's a real shame. I believe in people's right to protest but I wouldn't condone violence from either the crowd or the guards. It doesn't achieve anything.
What was the protest "advertised" as? Any links to tweets or flyers arranging it?
It was advertised as a peaceful and socially distanced protest. There's a flyer knocking around twitter I'll dig it out in a bit. Called Freedom March or something.
National Party and IFP astroturfed it, it was made out to be apolitical and a lockdown protest but they were there anyway flyering the place and taking credit for organising it. Various threads on twitter breaking it down.
Saw a few more videos. Scumbags calling the guards scumbags, while throwing those plastic barricades. Self-awareness wouldn't be their strong suit I guess.
You're surely right and I saw the videos as well but that doesn't mean that everyone there was violent or right wing. It will be reported that they all were though, and the many people who think they were there to show their dissatisfaction with covid policy in particular will be lumped in with the usual crank crowd whohateeverything in the most aimless possible way.
Last year everyone said the protesters were selfish because it was only 3 weeks and that seemed fair enough. It is a year now and nothing has changed regarding policy to deal with things. So while I strongly believe that today's carry on is wrong and counterproductive, I also believe that many people have legitimate reasons to voice their dissatisfaction and would do so in the most peaceful fashion and with respect for the fact that the guards are there doing their job.
I'd love to kick the fuck out of that firework cunt.
It seems like a very disparate lot, and you're right, the media will focus on the right wing causing the shenanigans but let's call a spade a spade, it was bored knackers looking to feel like hard men. They wouldn't understand the word "idealogy", let alone be there for any particular one. Thick cunts.
No I agree there was a large dickhead contingent and they did nobody any good. And it will happen every time anything like this is organised again.
It won't work anyway. People who don't want to associate themselves with that shit will have to think of something else or forget about it.
Danish flat earthers in action...
https://youtu.be/KOKtDu2LUHo
Not sure what it was designed to achieve. An end to lockdown? As little as I trust the Irish government I am sure that they would end lockdown in the morning if there was a viable way. Hardly suits them to have the coffers empty.
I doubt it would end lockdown on the scale it's on. Might just put a flea in governments' ears enough to get them to think twice about some of their decisions. But that is purely wishful thinking on my part. How long would this have to go in its' current format of restrictions here before anyone would protest? They will surely get bigger with time but I still doubt anyone in government would listen unless it was an election year. There is no way the government could just stop what they are doing this minute anyway without finishing themselves off politically, no matter what public support or what evidence was found for anything.
Little bit here may be of interest to anyone wondering about variants and their new found fame: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/wuhan-covid-variants-december-2019-who-investigation-b1802393.html
The variants are convenient when things need to be justified, such as vaccines not working and booster shots and also keeping restrictions going post vaccination etc but they are certainly nothing like a new phenomenon with over 4000 already logged. And although some dominate at different times in different areas, there is no telling where they started really, only where someone turned up positive with one.
More bad news as the first vaccine for COVID will run out soon as global demand increases...
The Pfizer chiefs have said; "They predict a riot!!"
Well it's not as if they didn't know demand was about to go up since 2019....
https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf
Looks like it's going well so far.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health-service-in-crisis-almost-one-million-hospital-appointments-cancelled-by-pandemic-40147955.html
Great job done keeping everyone safe. good proportional response even after it became apparent that it wasn't exactly ebola.
Lots of money to keep people out of work. 40 Billion in last year's budget to cover covid cost. Health service decimated since 2008 while government and higher executive positions' salaries go through the roof, and frontline staff are underpaid, under-resourced, understaffed and undervalued even this minute when the student nurses can't be paid for what is said to be an extremely high risk situation and the TD's who didn't lose a cent or a day's work (work, fuck off seriously) are after getting a raise. Really think about it all and no matter what, nothing ever changes with the shower in this country. Think about roqu digital and the 14 million awarded by the hse and for nothing and that doesn't even scratch the surface of the carry on around all this. one of the nphet lads has a fucking pcr testing lab and nphet keep saying the rapid tests are no good. All the advisors are paid or funded or have received grants from pharma companies. Don't take my word for it, actually find out and then say it's bollix. We're all going around, meeting no one, fined for going over 5km even if there is nobody there, no work for hundreds of thousands, no fuck all really, no travel, impending recession, fully paid up to the united states of europe, at the mercy of an unelected group of advisors and everyone of them riddled fucking riddled with conflicts of interest.
remember the banking crisis in 2008 where we all did fuck all wrong and people lost houses, businesses, jobs, fucking jobbridge don't forget jobbridge, banks clawing back debt so they could sell it to international vulture funds. your fucking toll you pay on the roads today is fucking profit to private interests because the coffers were empty on the strength of bailing out the fucking banks instead of using it to improve fucking road and rail infrastructure in the country and actually sort a real problem for fucking once. well here we again only this time it's 1000 times worse. we will all vomit into our mouths when we actually find out the extent of the bollixing that's after going on here.
And by the way, don't forget to wear your mask and wash your fucking hands over and fucking over while we (judiciary, business execs, government contacts, yknow the usual golf fiends) go to an 80 man dinner and you can't piss crooked without being a covidiot on tomorrows paper. by the way, 4 year old child, don't touch your face because it might indirectly lead to your granny dying at some stage actually let me explain chaos theory to you and the oft-mentioned but not as often in actual scientific literature butterfly effect. So no matter what you do son, except for staying away from everyone forever or taking jabs to keep your health passport updated, you might kill your granny by living at all. Fuck off the whole lot of it. fuck the fucking fuckitty fuck right off.
Please tell us when we can go out, Leo Varadkar and Micheal Martin, the very two cunts we tried to get rid of at the last election? Oh let's not forget the fucking shitehawk out of the green party that you needed to pass the most unlikely government in the history of the state (until the shinners get into bed with the both of the bastards at the next time of asking). We really trust that you are doing everything you can to keep us all fucking safe. Never mind that we never once trusted you for even half a second (or 10 words, whichever is fastest). Fuck sake can it actually be that everyone doesn't see all this bollix?
Make sure next time we are washing our hands to splash the stone cold water on our faces as well. It might wake us up a bit.
Lads getting out protesting? Who'd fucking blame them?
Jaysus astfygl lad.... I'm glad you've finally woken up to these shitshow shenanigans.
I've been banging this drum since Charles J. Haughey first decided to give his hair a side parting. :laugh:
I've always known it was bollix the whole lot of it but it has suddenly gone into overdrive in the last 12 months. like fuck sake like. Anyone can read that big thing I wrote and see it's all actually true as well if they can be bothered. Go on, someone go to the bother of looking at it.
(fact-checkers have fact-checked this claim and declare it to be somewhat false, as it is not 1000 times worse than 2008 as the author of the piece claims. Recent surveys by the acronym-of-our-choosing-for-today's-bullshit support the government's stance that it is, in fact, only between 999 times and 1001 times worse than 2008 and therefore not exactly 1000 times worse).
Verdict: Mostly False.
Every word you wrote there has merit Astfgyl. Your obvious outrage at the whole situation is also merited.
One could write tomes on the blatant injustices being suffered by the Irish people and the corruption which is endemic among the political and business class in this so called republic.
Hows about we discuss possible solutions to these problems?, walking down Grafton street shouting about it is clearly pointless.
Whats to be done, short of all out insurrection?
A fantastic rant Astf..whatever it is. Unfortunately it's like screaming at a wall.
Absolutely agree with everything you said astfygl.
Time to put the sniper on the Dáil....
Varadkar and Meathole first.... :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on March 02, 2021, 09:56:05 PM
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health-service-in-crisis-almost-one-million-hospital-appointments-cancelled-by-pandemic-40147955.html
Great job done keeping everyone safe. good proportional response even after it became apparent that it wasn't exactly ebola.
Lots of money to keep people out of work. 40 Billion in last year's budget to cover covid cost. Health service decimated since 2008 while government and higher executive positions' salaries go through the roof, and frontline staff are underpaid, under-resourced, understaffed and undervalued even this minute when the student nurses can't be paid for what is said to be an extremely high risk situation and the TD's who didn't lose a cent or a day's work (work, fuck off seriously) are after getting a raise. Really think about it all and no matter what, nothing ever changes with the shower in this country. Think about roqu digital and the 14 million awarded by the hse and for nothing and that doesn't even scratch the surface of the carry on around all this. one of the nphet lads has a fucking pcr testing lab and nphet keep saying the rapid tests are no good. All the advisors are paid or funded or have received grants from pharma companies. Don't take my word for it, actually find out and then say it's bollix. We're all going around, meeting no one, fined for going over 5km even if there is nobody there, no work for hundreds of thousands, no fuck all really, no travel, impending recession, fully paid up to the united states of europe, at the mercy of an unelected group of advisors and everyone of them riddled fucking riddled with conflicts of interest.
remember the banking crisis in 2008 where we all did fuck all wrong and people lost houses, businesses, jobs, fucking jobbridge don't forget jobbridge, banks clawing back debt so they could sell it to international vulture funds. your fucking toll you pay on the roads today is fucking profit to private interests because the coffers were empty on the strength of bailing out the fucking banks instead of using it to improve fucking road and rail infrastructure in the country and actually sort a real problem for fucking once. well here we again only this time it's 1000 times worse. we will all vomit into our mouths when we actually find out the extent of the bollixing that's after going on here.
And by the way, don't forget to wear your mask and wash your fucking hands over and fucking over while we (judiciary, business execs, government contacts, yknow the usual golf fiends) go to an 80 man dinner and you can't piss crooked without being a covidiot on tomorrows paper. by the way, 4 year old child, don't touch your face because it might indirectly lead to your granny dying at some stage actually let me explain chaos theory to you and the oft-mentioned but not as often in actual scientific literature butterfly effect. So no matter what you do son, except for staying away from everyone forever or taking jabs to keep your health passport updated, you might kill your granny by living at all. Fuck off the whole lot of it. fuck the fucking fuckitty fuck right off.
Please tell us when we can go out, Leo Varadkar and Micheal Martin, the very two cunts we tried to get rid of at the last election? Oh let's not forget the fucking shitehawk out of the green party that you needed to pass the most unlikely government in the history of the state (until the shinners get into bed with the both of the bastards at the next time of asking). We really trust that you are doing everything you can to keep us all fucking safe. Never mind that we never once trusted you for even half a second (or 10 words, whichever is fastest). Fuck sake can it actually be that everyone doesn't see all this bollix?
Make sure next time we are washing our hands to splash the stone cold water on our faces as well. It might wake us up a bit.
Lads getting out protesting? Who'd fucking blame them?
Agree with all of that. Anyone who has worked for or has had a lot of dealings with the civil service and 'the system' should know how conservative it all can be, how slow it can be to change and evolve and make decisions. That's not a criticism. It's necessary to a degree but it's also the reason why we shouldn't let bureaucrats mandate everything in our lives. Throw politicians into that mix aswell. They are there to serve a function but they wield massive power and we need to be really careful with empowering them even more.
Things like the protests are a smokescreen and it's no accident that tge images are disseminated widely throughout the media. Social media stirs up the hype. It's a small pocket of people that have no power or influence other than firing fireworks at Garda. They'd do it no matter what. But they take attention away from all them points that Astfygl just made. The fact that this whole shitshow is still dragging on is absolute madness. The money that is being poured into keeping businesses afloat..imagine that was used to actually make real change in the country. Train lines, services, training for medical staff, housing instead of the fukin disaster commute culture, can't see a decent doctor when I need one culture we are subjected to in Ireland.
It would have been cheaper to pay anyone with an underlying issue to stay at home for a couple of years, provide meals to old people and pay theit bills so they don't go outside than shut whole industries down like they've done. Rudderless..don't ever let yourselves be fooled into thinking that they know what they're doing.
I had tickets to Inferno festival which is now cancelled for this year. And Primavera cancelled yesterday in both Spain and Portugal. Looks like another quiet year ahead across Europe, festival wise anyway.
I wonder will we see some gigs at least before the year is out. Its been so long it's hard to see it ha!
If they could get Europe up to some level of vaccination bands could potentially have a large area to tour.
I'm burnt out on the whole thing too, and have been for the guts of the last year. I don't follow it as closely as you lot do. I just can't absorb all the endless information that keeps spewing forth like a busted dam. It feels like we are being bamboozled by so much information, too much to wrap your head around, endless variables that contradict each other so you can't keep up with an argument. All day on the radio it's Covid stories, then you put on the news in the evening and it's more Covid. It feels like some sort of mass hypnosis is going on. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm generally relatively ignorant to all of this stuff because it's not interesting to me, but having the country put on hold, digging us into an ever deepening financial hole, killing businesses, keeping kids out of school so they don't spread infection when you only have to look out your window to see them all hanging out and playing on the streets, 1000,000 instances of people cancelling hospital visits, a rise in alcoholism and drug abuse, a rise in domestic and child abuse, people being stuck at home to work and live while also having to home school their kids... I don't know anything about the vested interests of any of the people or which big company may have them by the balls, but just looking at the day to day of it and how frustrating it is, how every time we seem to be making progress, we then seem to be told that the light at the end of the tunnel is moving further away from us- it makes alarm bells ring. What can we do? We piss and moan but just get on with it and hope to fuck it will come to and end, but what sort of disaster is waiting for us when we go back to normal... no wait, not normal but THE NEW NORMAL!
I shudder.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 03, 2021, 08:48:37 AM
I'm burnt out on the whole thing too, and have been for the guts of the last year. I don't follow it as closely as you lot do. I just can't absorb all the endless information that keeps spewing forth like a busted dam. It feels like we are being bamboozled by so much information, too much to wrap your head around, endless variables that contradict each other so you can't keep up with an argument. All day on the radio it's Covid stories, then you put on the news in the evening and it's more Covid. It feels like some sort of mass hypnosis is going on. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm generally relatively ignorant to all of this stuff because it's not interesting to me, but having the country put on hold, digging us into an ever deepening financial hole, killing businesses, keeping kids out of school so they don't spread infection when you only have to look out your window to see them all hanging out and playing on the streets, 1000,000 instances of people cancelling hospital visits, a rise in alcoholism and drug abuse, a rise in domestic and child abuse, people being stuck at home to work and live while also having to home school their kids... I don't know anything about the vested interests of any of the people or which big company may have them by the balls, but just looking at the day to day of it and how frustrating it is, how every time we seem to be making progress, we then seem to be told that the light at the end of the tunnel is moving further away from us- it makes alarm bells ring. What can we do? We piss and moan but just get on with it and hope to fuck it will come to and end, but what sort of disaster is waiting for us when we go back to normal... no wait, not normal but THE NEW NORMAL!
I shudder.
I'm the same tbh. Just turn off any time it comes on. I know plenty people who have had it now, I live in Madrid, many of them barely registered a cough. I teach hundreds of peole and yes people have lost parents who were old. My wife's uncle died of it and he was in his 50's. Awful, but there seemed to have been underlying issues. I know an older gentleman who was in intensive care for months. When it's all added up, the picture is no different than it ever was. If you're older and have underlying issues then you should be protected and given help. Otherwise, things should be opened up within countries. I spent all weekend in parks, bars and restaurants full to the brim with people here in Madrid. Wear the mask and get on with it seems to be the response. The lockdown in Ireland by comparison seems completely over the top, for such a tiny population of people where the average distance between people in any environment is far less than in most other parts of Europe. It seems a total mess of a response from the outside tbh.
Not to mention the fact that Ireland is being used as a loophole by Brits who want to avoid quarantining when they return home from their holidays. The whole country is at level 5 lockdown while there is no enforcement of quarantine for those coming in. Insane.
Unbelievable..what a total mess.
I think I'd a fairly high level of patience and interest in the whole thing for all of last year but since the new year I've avoided it in the news etc. as much as I can. From a selfish perspective, teaching from home is much more of a balls this time around.
The free time last year allowed me fill my days doing bits around the house. It was fine getting someone in to do jobs I'd be unable to do. This time, there's basically nothing around the house that needs doing that I could do. We were due to get our kitchen redone but all that kinda work is fucked cos of the lockdown so boredom and cabin fever features much more prominently now.
Just heard of a company owner committing suicide yesterday who had been dealing with redundancies due to this wretched pandemic. He left 2 young kids. Imagine the pressure he felt to do that.
Quote from: Blackout on March 03, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
Just heard of a company owner committing suicide yesterday who had been dealing with redundancies due to this wretched pandemic. He left 2 young kids. Imagine the pressure he felt to do that.
Old boss I worked for hung himself after the 2008 crash. Got heavy into property at the wrong time. And left kids behind. But he suffered from depression. And I'm going out on a limb here but we don't know the full story of the company owner. A few years ago I was in a lot of debt but I'd never contemplate suicide because of debts. Maybe some people do, why I can't fathom. I just can't see it just been because of redundancies, but I could be totally wrong.
I'd say it's poor stress management. Could happen anyone really. Awful.
If I totted up the mortgage, the loan I got out to get married, the several credit cards I have balances on etc and set them off against my savings it would make grim enough reading, but isn't everyone in the same boat to some extent, on a personal level?
My auld lads business tanked a few years ago, and apart from less money, it's what he perceives as the humiliation of going back into the workforce as an employee rather than being the Big Mickey that rankled with him.
Not to labour the 'underlying condition' cliché, but I think drastic things like suicide in most cases would involve one.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 03, 2021, 12:31:05 PM
Quote from: Blackout on March 03, 2021, 12:14:44 PM
Just heard of a company owner committing suicide yesterday who had been dealing with redundancies due to this wretched pandemic. He left 2 young kids. Imagine the pressure he felt to do that.
Old boss I worked for hung himself after the 2008 crash. Got heavy into property at the wrong time. And left kids behind. But he suffered from depression. And I'm going out on a limb here but we don't know the full story of the company owner. A few years ago I was in a lot of debt but I'd never contemplate suicide because of debts. Maybe some people do, why I can't fathom. I just can't see it just been because of redundancies, but I could be totally wrong.
Most people are vulnerable to depression, just depends on how much pressure or unfortunate circumstances need to be applied. A lot of people with no history of mental illness are suffering from them now. It's a particularly absurd situation that nobody was prepared for.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 03, 2021, 08:48:37 AM
All day on the radio it's Covid stories, then you put on the news in the evening and it's more Covid. It feels like some sort of mass hypnosis is going on.
Yep, I was listening to some Irish podcasts recently and they got interrupted by an ad announcing "We all need to know the symptoms of Covid 19...."...... For fuck sake I'm listening to podcasts to get away from the wall to wall misery of Irish radio wanking itself silly over Covid being such a scourge. And it's been a fucking year, anyone with 2 functioning brain cells knows the symptoms because it's all Irish media have been able to fuckin talk about for the past year.
The duality of the restrictions is what annoys me most. I'm lucky to have been working all through this so for me personally the only real difference to daily life has been wearing a mask in shops. The mrs on the other hand has been stuck at home for the bones of a year. How is it fair that I can freely go to farmyards all over the county 6 days a week but I could be fined for having the audacity to want to bring the wife somewhere that isn't the same 5km block of ugly streets and housing estates on my day off?? What's the harm in people walking on beaches or in forests if they're keeping to themselves.
The whole thing is a colossal fuck up really. There's plenty questions to be asked about the approaches taken but it's difficult to get those questions taken seriously as the conspiracy retards have taken so much credibility away from that side of the argument.
Quote from: Emphyrio on March 03, 2021, 01:16:18 PM
I'd say it's poor stress management. Could happen anyone really. Awful.
Aye you're probably right.
Quote from: hellfire on March 03, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Most people are vulnerable to depression, just depends on how much pressure or unfortunate circumstances need to be applied. A lot of people with no history of mental illness are suffering from them now. It's a particularly absurd situation that nobody was prepared for.
Good point. People are social animals after all. What do ye do to alleviate the boredom. Just taking a snapshot of my friends during Covid. I'm seeing where people have a good hobby, be it music, art or whatever have dived into that hobby and seem to be handling all this a little better. I signed up for drum theory stuff and have belted away with that to keep occupied. Friends of mine that don't seem to have hobbies bar meeting up and socialising are finding it a lot harder. Am I on to something or talking shite?
That's completely true. I'm lucky to be still out working which has helped a lot but I'm finding the lack of jamming and recording is really getting to me now. I need that outlet. Going for walks when we get in from work, being distracted with our son, listening to music, reading and telly is life these days. It's limited enough, especially when all social outlets have vanished.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 03, 2021, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: hellfire on March 03, 2021, 01:22:19 PM
Most people are vulnerable to depression, just depends on how much pressure or unfortunate circumstances need to be applied. A lot of people with no history of mental illness are suffering from them now. It's a particularly absurd situation that nobody was prepared for.
Good point. People are social animals after all. What do ye do to alleviate the boredom. Just taking a snapshot of my friends during Covid. I'm seeing where people have a good hobby, be it music, art or whatever have dived into that hobby and seem to be handling all this a little better. I signed up for drum theory stuff and have belted away with that to keep occupied. Friends of mine that don't seem to have hobbies bar meeting up and socialising are finding it a lot harder. Am I on to something or talking shite?
No, you're definitely on to something. Those hobbies in particular that you mention. They're quite solitary, and easy to get lost in. If your main outlets are sports or the pub, I imagine it must be tougher.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 03, 2021, 02:15:58 PM
That's completely true. I'm lucky to be still out working which has helped a lot but I'm finding the lack of jamming and recording is really getting to me now. I need that outlet. Going for walks when we get in from work, being distracted with our son, listening to music, reading and telly is life these days. It's limited enough, especially when all social outlets have vanished.
I can take or leave the jamming but I'd be fairly lost if I wasn't able to do a bit of recording at home when the urge kicks in.
I've found studying for work related certifications really helpful. Gives me a small sense of achievement when the are completed.
I'm currently trying my hand at guitar. Its so hard but you'd find the time flying from practice. Just wish the damn calluses would form so the finger pain would stop. :laugh:
Beers, Steers & Queers (and no masks).....
https://metalinjection.net/shocking-revelations/texas-concert-venues-can-re-open-at-100-capacity-maskless-according-to-governor
Think long and hard about why the 80 odd shites at the golf dinner last summer didn't feel threatened enough to stay at home from it.
Now think about it again because you probably didn't think hard enough about it the first time. Make sure to take the time to consider who was there. Also consider how much less was known about the virus at the time and they still went.
Now ask yourself why the foundations are currently being laid for masking up junior infants.
Yes.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 03, 2021, 10:26:54 PM
Think long and hard about why the 80 odd shites at the golf dinner last summer didn't feel threatened enough to stay at home from it.
Now think about it again because you probably didn't think hard enough about it the first time. Make sure to take the time to consider who was there. Also consider how much less was known about the virus at the time and they still went.
Now ask yourself why the foundations are currently being laid for masking up junior infants.
Yes.
Implied...or implode, Lisa?
Just say whatever it is you're thinking.
No.
That was an invitation for anyone else to think about it. Everyone knows how I feel about it.
Have you thought about why they felt safe enough to attend?
Edit: without masks...
Quote from: Born of Fire on March 03, 2021, 02:02:09 PM
The whole thing is a colossal fuck up really. There's plenty questions to be asked about the approaches taken but it's difficult to get those questions taken seriously as the conspiracy retards have taken so much credibility away from that side of the argument.
In short, yes. And Pedrito made a similar point with his "rudderless" comment. Scrabbling, opportunism, fucking up, scrabbling, opportunism, fucking up, scrabbling, opportunism, fucking up...the standard politicycle.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 03, 2021, 10:40:07 PM
No.
That was an invitation for anyone else to think about it. Everyone knows how I feel about it.
Have you thought about why they felt safe enough to attend?
I don't really see that it's of any importance why they felt safe enough to attend. I mean, why did meat packing factories think it was safe enough for their workers to keep working on top of each other? You're driving at it meaning something; I'd be more in the meaningless camp. They're humans; there was a thing they wanted to do, so they did it and to hell with the consequences, whether those be medical or political in nature.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 03, 2021, 10:40:19 PM
Quote from: Born of Fire on March 03, 2021, 02:02:09 PM
The whole thing is a colossal fuck up really. There's plenty questions to be asked about the approaches taken but it's difficult to get those questions taken seriously as the conspiracy retards have taken so much credibility away from that side of the argument.
In short, yes. And Pedrito made a similar point with his "rudderless" comment. Scrabbling, opportunism, fucking up, scrabbling, opportunism, fucking up, scrabbling, opportunism, fucking up...the standard politicycle.
That's it in a nutshell. And they won't poke their head above the parapet and challenge the status quo because they're worried about the reaction. Has noone got the guts? I'd be surprised if the Healy Rae's haven't kicked up a stink? Oul Jackie came to my grandfather's funeral in Killarney even though my grandfather couldn't stand the lad. Had the hair painted on and fair play he shook my hand and looked awful cut up about it all. Someone needs to fire a shot.
Ah fair enough. I can get on board with that.
Remember how in the late 00s it came out about the developers and the whip arounds and the brown envelopes? While the rest of us had to take the brunt of the squeeze.
Here we are again but multiply it by the hundreds.
The cunts that took the envelopes were not thinking it would lead to what it did but the immediate gains were such that they also didn't give a flying fuck, safe in the knowledge that if it did go tits up, they wouldn't be the ones paying for it.
It's easy say it's all rudderless but it isn't. It's easy say it's all conspiracy theories but it isn't. Some of all sides is pure unadulterated bollix but if one wishes to follow the money the answers are there. How much is testing worth? How much are the vaccines worth? How much is the mask industry worth?
Nothing ever changes in any meaningful way that would improve things for joe soap, which happens to be my real name.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 03, 2021, 10:43:35 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 03, 2021, 10:40:07 PM
No.
That was an invitation for anyone else to think about it. Everyone knows how I feel about it.
Have you thought about why they felt safe enough to attend?
I don't really see that it's of any importance why they felt safe enough to attend. I mean, why did meat packing factories think it was safe enough for their workers to keep working on top of each other? You're driving at it meaning something; I'd be more in the meaningless camp. They're humans; there was a thing they wanted to do, so they did it and to hell with the consequences, whether those be medical or political in nature.
Because they could use the evidence of their eyes and ears and they decided that they could do it at a level of risk that was negligible.
Edit: meat factories didn't give a fuck if it was safe for the workers or not as long as they did the work. Heard of Larry Goodman at all? Have a squint at his connections and you will have the answer to the meat factory conundrum.
Another question...
Who here can honestly say that they have abided by all of the recommendations that are currently in place, and if so, are you also blind and deaf?
Yes it will be crickets now that a certain someone has given up wishing I'd catch it and fuck off for good.
:laugh:
You're only torturing yourself trying to find logic in any of this. There is no logic. They're fukin spas the lot of them, inventing shit as they go along, excel files and folders and conference calls, parroting eachother about vaccines and approaches and about 1 in every 200 of them has any real clue as to what they're talking about. It's the same oul Celtic Tiger bullshite and where I am in Spain is no better. Just dragging the arse out of it and making sure they don't get tarred by the media in the process.
The only logic in this is profit, be it monetary or otherwise.
The rest of it will come out and we will collectively puke.
Don't let the profiteers off the hook by thinking that they don't know what they are doing.
Also, pooled testing is worth a few minutes of everybody's time if you feel curious.
Ok lads, some info if you know anyone who needs help.
https://www.newstalk.com/news/what-to-do-if-a-loved-falls-down-the-conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole-1159673
Quote from: astfgyl on March 04, 2021, 05:21:59 PM
Ok lads, some info if you know anyone who needs help.
https://www.newstalk.com/news/what-to-do-if-a-loved-falls-down-the-conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole-1159673
From that article....
"We have been working, really for the last year and a half, on addressing misinformation which we saw coming up in our local areas, first attached to racism and anti-immigrant hate but then moving towards COVID as the virus and the lockdowns took hold, taking a grip on people's anxieties and their isolation," she said.Change a couple of words around and that's the government and the media we're talking about.
Dr Michael said the people behind the misinformation "know exactly what they are doing" and are well-funded from abroad.
"Many of them are making a career out of this," she said. "They are making money out of this.
"Some of those far-right activists even have online merchandise shops. This is absolutely about a career and they are being funded very, very heavily from abroad to have this agenda."Again, this is exactly what the governments and media are at.
Thankfully the gawd fearing public are beginning to see through this absolute horseshit and are finally waking up.
I'm praying that the weather around St Patty's Day is glorious and absolutely everybody hits the beaches, mountains and countryside.
Sweep these gawd awful restrictions away and later in the year hopefully have another referendum to get those FF/FG cartel out on their ear.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 03, 2021, 11:11:56 PM
:laugh:
You're only torturing yourself trying to find logic in any of this. There is no logic. They're fukin spas the lot of them, inventing shit as they go along, excel files and folders and conference calls, parroting eachother about vaccines and approaches and about 1 in every 200 of them has any real clue as to what they're talking about. It's the same oul Celtic Tiger bullshite and where I am in Spain is no better. Just dragging the arse out of it and making sure they don't get tarred by the media in the process.
I couldn't help imagining a Covid season of The Thick of It while reading this :laugh:
:laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 04, 2021, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 03, 2021, 11:11:56 PM
:laugh:
You're only torturing yourself trying to find logic in any of this. There is no logic. They're fukin spas the lot of them, inventing shit as they go along, excel files and folders and conference calls, parroting eachother about vaccines and approaches and about 1 in every 200 of them has any real clue as to what they're talking about. It's the same oul Celtic Tiger bullshite and where I am in Spain is no better. Just dragging the arse out of it and making sure they don't get tarred by the media in the process.
I couldn't help imagining a Covid season of The Thick of It while reading this :laugh:
Would love more of TTOI. Between Brexit and Covid it nearly writes itself.
Never took to that, for whatever reason. Yer man's insults were top notch but I found some of the improvisational end of it quite strained. I realise I'm in the minority there.
Ah it was all about Malcolm Tucker to be fair.
Quote from: Nazgûl on March 04, 2021, 10:51:20 PM
Ah it was all about Malcolm Tucker to be fair.
Yes and no. The supporting cast was fantastic. Lord Julius Nicholson or the Scot Malcolm Tucker. Gas craic
Quote from: astfgyl on March 04, 2021, 05:21:59 PM
Ok lads, some info if you know anyone who needs help.
https://www.newstalk.com/news/what-to-do-if-a-loved-falls-down-the-conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole-1159673
The mainstream media love to point out how bad believing things you read online is. Their grip on the public consciousness is threatened now more than ever. They threw out the one advantage they had over alternative media about seven years ago. When they stopped dealing in facts and opted instead for towing the government line they signed their own death warrant. Impartial, factual and unbiased reporting is the only way they can save their dying industry.
They're fucked now so!
Yes, let's look to Israel.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-leo-varadkar-23606942
Now let's look to what the EU have had in the works since at least 2018
https://t.co/vSV8L6GeeL?amp=1.
It's a pdf unfortunately but do look at it and don't think for a second that these passes have anything to do with covid or a safe return to the pub.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-leo-varadkar-23606942
QuoteJamie Redknapp 'not happy' as ex-wife Louise airs their dirty laundry in tell-all book
Imagine, there's people who give a fuck about Jamie Redknapp and Louise in 2021!
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
Yes, let's look to Israel.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-leo-varadkar-23606942
Now let's look to what the EU have had in the works since at least 2018
https://t.co/vSV8L6GeeL?amp=1.
It's a pdf unfortunately but do look at it and don't think for a second that these passes have anything to do with covid or a safe return to the pub.
The amount of legal and ethical scrutiny (which already is being highlighted by many) this will need to go under before any sort of working system is in place will be massive, so I wouldn't be quick to pass judgement on it yet personally. Although I'm only seeing it from the point of view of keeping people safe against a virus. I'm not sure as to what dreaded or esoteric reasons for implementing you're insinuating.
I mean that last part in all honesty, I still can't grasp what the bigger picture is in your mind. (bear in mind also I'm not following this thread to the post)
I've had a vaccination passport for years. Well, that's not true, I lost it. I do hope the vaccination centre have a digital record though; some of those shots were damn expensive, and good for up to 10-15 years!
Quote from: Nazgûl on March 05, 2021, 05:35:35 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
Yes, let's look to Israel.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-leo-varadkar-23606942
Now let's look to what the EU have had in the works since at least 2018
https://t.co/vSV8L6GeeL?amp=1.
It's a pdf unfortunately but do look at it and don't think for a second that these passes have anything to do with covid or a safe return to the pub.
The amount of legal and ethical scrutiny (which already is being highlighted by many) this will need to go under before any sort of working system is in place will be massive, so I wouldn't be quick to pass judgement on it yet personally. Although I'm only seeing it from the point of view of keeping people safe against a virus. I'm not sure as to what dreaded or esoteric reasons for implementing you're insinuating.
I mean that last part in all honesty, I still can't grasp what the bigger picture is in your mind. (bear in mind also I'm not following this thread to the post)
Nothing dreaded or esoteric. Just pointing out that this is being painted as some sort of new idea due to covid, but in fact the plan for the common vaccination passport has been available on the EU website for years.
The big picture in my mind is not any one single overarching picture at all. What I do see however is that an opportunity has been presented, with the emergence of this novel virus, to every rotten profiteering entity who wants to better their own lot and worsen mine. Another example of the type of thing I mean is today's news that over 20 German politicians are making massive profits from the masks (source: https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/masken-lobbyismus-bundestag-korruption-1.5225744). Things like that, and many of them. Look at the UK's awarding of contracts for covid related products and services. It is in the best interests of big businesses to keep this going while the getting is good, to the extent it has been blown out of all proportion. Have a look at this BMJ article regarding the Wellcome trust and the profits they are generating (https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n556) and then look at every single pandemic pushing scientist that appears in the media and they are all funded by the Wellcome trust or have links to the pharma industry. These people do not want to save us all, they want personal gain and to expand their customer base to include everyone. The likes of Tony Blair then sticking his oar in saying we need a vaccine passport and we all know his track record with the truth. So no, it's not any single big plan that I see, but thousands of smaller ones all taking the same opportunity while it's there. The money and power and social control involved in all of this is head spinning. The stuff I mention here is only from the last couple of days and there are so many more every day. No weird arsehole of the internet stuff or bitchute videos either. All official stuff in the public domain. I'm more than happy to be challenged on any of this stuff I post or say but it all checks out and I can post any of the links for any of the things I point out, to show it isn't shite I'm talking or conspiracy theories I'm spreading.
The news or the papers or any of the practitioners of the lost art of investigative reporting will mention or publish this stuff for general public consumption. There is no balance in the debate.
Now it is getting to the stage where there is talk of making my 5 year old sons wear a fucking mask all day in school when there is no actual evidence that the masks actually work other than a sort of idea that they might and fuck it every time I dig into anything around this shit it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Not the disease itself, but the response to it is what I mean when I say it doesn't hold up. Keep seeing all this follow the science shit. Whose science exactly? NPHET saying pcr tests must be used instead of rapid antigen tests for the last year when a member of NPHET runs a PCR testing lab which makes money from testing. The shit goes on and on and the lists are endless.
Think about the irony of experts saying you'll kill your grannies when there were patients transferred from hospitals to nursing homes without being tested. Who killed the grannies lads? When is the enquiry? Look at Cuomo in NY, hailed by oul Fauci as the gold standard in pandemic management. Except now it turns out he is in serious shit for transferring positive patients into nursing homes and his pals are gone fierce quiet on him. Like I said, the level of bollixing worldwide and the fear being pumped out doesn't really hold up but here we still are.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 06:34:14 PM
I've had a vaccination passport for years. Well, that's not true, I lost it. I do hope the vaccination centre have a digital record though; some of those shots were damn expensive, and good for up to 10-15 years!
I'm 99% sure all of those records are kept. My wife needed proof of all her shots lately for a new job and was sent copies of all the original documents in no time, going right back to birth.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 05:24:45 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-leo-varadkar-23606942
QuoteJamie Redknapp 'not happy' as ex-wife Louise airs their dirty laundry in tell-all book
Imagine, there's people who give a fuck about Jamie Redknapp and Louise in 2021!
Is that supposed to in some way diminish the credibility of the Varadkar quotes, them being published in a rag paper?
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 08:00:57 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 05:24:45 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:56:26 PM
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-leo-varadkar-23606942
QuoteJamie Redknapp 'not happy' as ex-wife Louise airs their dirty laundry in tell-all book
Imagine, there's people who give a fuck about Jamie Redknapp and Louise in 2021!
Is that supposed to in some way diminish the credibility of the Varadkar quotes, them being published in a rag paper?
No, it just jumped out at me from the sidebar. It's like when people send links to stories from the Mail; you invariably end up just staring at the thumbnails of celebrities in bikinis which seems to be 90% of their related stories.
Here is another good one. NPHET yesterday announced 39 deaths, average age of 81, and age range of 0 to 97.
This means that they have counted the 4 stillbirths mentioned by the deputy CMO that have been in no way proven to be due to covid. No wonder I keep calling chicanery.
Let's pick at it a little...
From Irish Examiner https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40238090.html
"The Deputy CMO has said the Department of Health is aware of four preliminary reports of stillbirths associated with a condition called 'Covid Placentitis.'
Dr Ronan Glynn said the reports should be interpreted "with caution", given that coroners have not yet concluded their findings."
Ok so, why then add them into the total, given no one knows if it was that or not?
So that's 39 deaths minus the 4 stillbirths gives us 35.
Then take away the "Twelve more occurred in February, 13 in January and three occurred last year. One other death remains under investigation." which gives us 35 minus 12 minus 13 minus 3 minus 1, equalling a total of 6 new deaths to be announcing, without any mention of the age or the condition of said patients.
See what happens when it is even picked at in the slightest way? 39 becomes 6.
That's numberwang.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 08:20:28 PM
No, it just jumped out at me from the sidebar. It's like when people send links to stories from the Mail; you invariably end up just staring at the thumbnails of celebrities in bikinis which seems to be 90% of their related stories.
That is fair and true. I always end up looking at the pictures of scantily clad women as well. They are both fantastic and also like a sort of novocaine for the brain
And The Guardian can fuck away off too.....
https://youtu.be/7Qj8FNqWs5E
Haha, "What is their intent?" Hahaha
https://twitter.com/Corks96FM/status/1368203100562092041
Look at these violent, far-right bollixes with their violent, far-right rhetoric. Scum the whole lot of these Covidiots....
Or...
Quote from: astfgyl on March 06, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
https://twitter.com/Corks96FM/status/1368203100562092041
Look at these violent, far-right bollixes with their violent, far-right rhetoric. Scum the whole lot of these Covidiots....
Or...
Definitely the kind of speech that needs to be amplified, and preferably bundled in with absolutely no new world order type extrapolations as it's being spread along.
I agree. It's those sort of points that affect the ordinary joe and jane rather than some plan for the transhumanist enslavement of the human race. I also wouldn't deny for a second that simple points like this have been pounced upon by those who will simply protest against anything at all and are only crying out for a bit of violence in their lives to make them feel like they are doing something.
I really hope this stays perfectly peaceful, and that goes for the Gardai as well as the protesters.
Well that protest seems to have gone off without any shite happening. All we have to do now is wait two weeks for it to be the cause of rising case numbers in the Cork area.
Definitely feel myself going out of my mind with boredom and this is even when I'm keeping busy.
UK stuff, but basically how to make people take things they don't want to take.
https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/Vaccination%20do%20and%20donts%20by%20audience%20cohorts.pdf
The one for young people is funny. "acknowledge that their lives are ruined for a year but reassure them that there is no getting back to normal without the vaccine, and they are at the bottom of the list because of the minimal risk involved to them"
I feel like since sometime around last summer this has all become one big hard sell. I know a lot won't agree with me, but it's the same basic vibe I get when the travellers are at the door trying to sell me something and I don't want it but they won't fuck off all the same, and at the same time I get the vibe that they aren't just looking over my shoulder into the house because they are easily distracted. Pure Richard Nixon.
Along similar lines; "We can be zero" is the tagline of our resident zero-covid group, featuring professor gerry killeen of UCC, who predicted 60,000 deaths in this country if we didn't lock down (and also the sky was going to fall in, but sure hey if it didn't happen that proves it was because of what we did to prevent it, because correlation always equals causation as we all know ).
My favourite quote from it was "Let's also consider a set up with a rigged presenter". Surely they can't have rigged presenters in the media!? Surely the media are there in public service to provide the platform for debate in an impartial manner?
Anyway, here: https://gript.ie/frankly-id-prefer-to-sort-this-out-with-a-good-hurley-and-no-witnesses-zero-covid-group/
The links on the page have more of the same story.
https://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-ard-fheis-3-2068639-Apr2015/
Shape-shifting politicos.... :laugh:
Who'd have thunk it... :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on March 11, 2021, 02:28:39 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-ard-fheis-3-2068639-Apr2015/
You will find 100s of contradictions of what these politicians say anywhere astfgyl. A better release is a wank I feel.
Quote from: Blackout on March 11, 2021, 04:33:24 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 11, 2021, 02:28:39 PM
https://www.thejournal.ie/fianna-fail-ard-fheis-3-2068639-Apr2015/
You will find 100s of contradictions of what these politicians say anywhere astfgyl. A better release is a wank I feel.
Oh I just thought that one was particularly funny. If I was looking to find the contradictions I could make a life's work of it. I have meself well wanked as it is though ,and would also highly recommend it.
Well worth a watch. The Chinese government, as suspected, are pure scum.
In fairness it's not just an all out assault on the Chinese and well worth a watch.
https://youtu.be/XIXKJXsiBFc
It is worth a watch, and he's totally right about the need for a full and open investigation exploring all hypotheses, just as Joe is right about how it became taboo to show support for any idea Trump got behind.
BUT I do think Metzl should be a little more hypothetical and with-holding of conclusions himself. "What are the chances...?" are good reasons for deciding to test or investigate a hypothesis, but not good reasons for giving the idea that it means it's absolutely correct (though he may indeed be absolutely correct). I think a lot of people will come away from watching that just reinforced in ideas they've been holding without good reason for a very long time. Ah well. Anyway, was a good listen.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 13, 2021, 01:08:37 PM
I think a lot of people will come away from watching that just reinforced in ideas they've been holding without good reason for a very long time.
Like thinking it sprung up in a wet market last December, for example. I haven't watched the video though, so I dunno what it is he is saying.
My bet is we will never find out the origin of it. Well certainly not when we have the WHO sending a lad strongly connected to the lab to investigate it at any rate! Jokes aside, I think we'll never know.
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/use-astrazeneca-vaccine-suspended-ireland-23713271
Quote from: blessed1 on March 14, 2021, 12:02:39 PM
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/use-astrazeneca-vaccine-suspended-ireland-23713271
Precautionary but probably right step. 11 million vaccinated in England with this vaccine and 1 reported clot so I dont see much in this tbh.
Here is something I've just come across that pretty much changes the entire game if (and I mean if) it's true. Not a peep about it in any major news source as of yet, but we shall see. If it is true, then it might mean that antibiotics rather than mRNA vaccines are the actual answer to the riddle, and the whole mRNA approach is completely wrong and unnecessary. An article here explaining the basic premise and some links to the research in there (will have to translate from Italian, comes up automatically in my browser but dunno about others). Anyway, have a read, it's very interesting.
https://scenarieconomici.it/moltissimo-di-cio-che-ci-dicono-su-virus-e-vaccini-e-sbagliato-il-resto-e-nascosto/
Edit: The actual published paper is here, and the list of contributors on it looks good.
https://zenodo.org/record/4088208#.YE6KnE8XadO
Speaking of not a peep in the media.....
https://youtu.be/QAHi3lX3oGM
Really listen to this chap, speaking the common sense we all know in our hearts regardless of what the media and the vaccine salesmen would try to have us believe. Well worth the 20 minutes of anyone's time even if one is not a skeptic at all. The media and especially social media bias on this whole thing is actually fucking sick. His comments on herd immunity coming before the vaccines go a long way to explaining the massive drive to make it compulsory as quick as possible, when the actual method of transmission and replication is still being studied (as in the paper I linked above). Also, for anyone who doesn't know already, there cannot be an EUA (Emergency Use Authorisation) granted for the vaccines unless there were no existing treatments available, so there is the simple explanation for the denial of HCQ and Ivermectin; to get the approval for the experimental gene therapy or whatever the fuck it is that they all want us to be jabbed with (calling it a vaccine isn't even right as it doesn't even meet the current definition of one, look it up yourselves instead of not believing me).
Now sure think about the actions of governments and police still using the threat of hospitals being overrun to keep the place locked up, and the actions of NPHET in advising them to do so. Doctors from all over the world silenced, when information about treatments which would have precisely kept the hospital numbers down was exactly what was needed. All the tinfoil hat cunts like myself have been reading this stuff for the last 12 months, and yet these wankers on about 300 grand a year can't go find that information..... really? Ivermectin isn't even tried in this country (only approved for animals) but the experimental vaccine with the lack of safety data (without even proper animal trials) sure as fucking hell is being banged out. Brown envelope much, government? Fucking spastics. Even if it didn't work, it could have been tried, but it's too cheap so hope for the pals at Gilead or Regeneron to come up with something extremely expensively licensed instead, regardless of the efficacy being worse than the cheaper and safer alternatives, and keep us all masked up and locked to within 5k of our homes on pain of a fine to keep the desire for salvation going strong with something where the risk has been entirely blown out of all proportion for the general public.
Doctors in this country spoke out and were silenced or retired, such as Dr Martin Feeley and also Dr Pat Morrissey and also Dr Marcus De Brun (who resigned from the medical council in protest at the sending of sick patients from hospitals into nursing homes, which coincidentally accounts for the greatest share of the death count) to name 3 off the top of my head. And yet the general public still going around with this fucking shit in their heads that somehow we are all in this together and the cavalry is coming etc etc. All in it together when the salesmen are willing to let people die to get their shitty experimental treatment the EUA. Fuck sake, who can't actually see through this bollix yet? Have we learned nothing from the swine flu debacle and nothing from the stories of the brown envelopes between government representatives and developers prior to the crash of 2008? Why do we think that the pharma companies can't just buy the right few cunts just as the developers did?
So basically people have been allowed to die as part of the sales pitch. In this country as well as everywhere else, with the notable exception of India where HCQ and Ivermectin are given in a pack worth about 2 euro to everyone who tests positive. Put it down to confusion and incompetence on the part of government and advisors if ye like, but that's a load of bollix too.
There's no convincing clinical data to show that ivermectin does anything, no more than HCQ. Are GPs in Ireland prescribing vitamin D to positive cases and suspected cases as they are doing here in France? Because there's also no convincing clinical data to say that that does anything either. It's been noted by some commentators that the only people who are still referencing remdesivir (which you implicitly do by mentioning Gilead) are those who still insist on claiming that HCQ or ivermectin are efficient. Clinically speaking, they're not, just as - clinically speaking - remdesivir also isn't and is now recommended against by the WHO. And yet, anyone who doesn't get behind cheap cures that don't work must, ipso facto, be a shill for the manufacturers of expensive cures that don't work.
There hasn't been nearly enough silencing going on, to be honest. Self-silencing from people who, in their position, should be much, much better at critical thinking and data analysis than they evidently are.
Also, re your animal trials claim: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9792931264
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 15, 2021, 05:03:33 PM
There's no convincing clinical data to show that ivermectin does anything, no more than HCQ. Are GPs in Ireland prescribing vitamin D to positive cases and suspected cases as they are doing here in France? Because there's also no convincing clinical data to say that that does anything either. It's been noted by some commentators that the only people who are still referencing remdesivir (which you implicitly do by mentioning Gilead) are those who still insist on claiming that HCQ or ivermectin are efficient. Clinically speaking, they're not, just as - clinically speaking - remdesivir also isn't and is now recommended against by the WHO. And yet, anyone who doesn't get behind cheap cures that don't work must, ipso facto, be a shill for the manufacturers of expensive cures that don't work.
There hasn't been nearly enough silencing going on, to be honest. Self-silencing from people who, in their position, should be much, much better at critical thinking and data analysis than they evidently are.
Also, re your animal trials claim: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9792931264
I take it you didn't watch the video before responding re Ivermectin and HCQ, because otherwise you wouldn't have missed the point of what he said entirely. If you are short on time, listen from the last 3 or 4 minutes for that part. Listen to him speak of the type of trials that he relies on for his info and the sample size involved and why the detracting studies are designed to fail. Don't forget that The Lancet had to retract their hatchet job on HCQ because of the made up sham company Surgisphere where they got their figures from, and also the submission made to congress about Ivermectin from America's Frontline Doctors, which also has a video doing the rounds (although I concede that they are not without their detractors). Not from cranks, but from actual doctors who have used it. I get also that Remdesivir didn't take off. I was using it as an example of how things work. The drugs mentioned here are not for the most part what that highly published doctor in the video really talks about anyway. The best source I find for things like the vaccine trials are the BMJ in case you think it's some weird rabbit hole I get it out of btw. So why are they giving out those kits in India? Because there is nothing to say those 2 drugs will do anything? Well maybe, seeing as we are all in masks with zero evidence they do anything so I guess nothing is ruled out. Funnily enough, Ivermectin has an EUA in the US now, but only after the approval of the vaccines. Imagine that!
If you don't think that pharma companies and governments are corrupt and capable of what I'm saying, then I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land and in a worse position than even I am in with my admittedly unhealthy skepticism around absolutely everything. You only have to look through the last few decades of history to see what these companies are capable of. Look at the UK health secretary caught outright lying about saying they trialed vitamin D when they did no such thing, and listen to Varadkar in the Dail saying there is no evidence vit D works as well, only a few weeks ago. If these chaps really wanted to save everyone, why don't they try these harmless treatments and see if there is any benefit instead of ruling them out saying they are unproven before falling back on a vaccine which is also unproven, with trials designed to succeed?
And as for the fucking fact-checkers, don't make me laugh with the ministry of truth shit. Mike Yeadon, head of respiratory research at Pfizer for about 2 decades was the first to raise the issue of ADE (Antibody Dependent Enhancement), which was conveniently sidestepped in the trials by using only healthy and low risk subjects for the trials.
"This is part of The Associated Press' ongoing effort to fact-check misinformation that is shared widely online, including work with Facebook to identify and reduce the circulation of false stories on the platform." Sweet jesus. Amazing they never fact-check the claims made by the companies selling the tests or the cure as part of the trillion dollar industry they are running. Amazing.
Edit: here is a bit of a fact check of my own about the trials and ADE: This quote from Dr Loretta Bolgan, who you can google to see who she is, from this article which I linked yesterday https://scenarieconomici.it/moltissimo-di-cio-che-ci-dicono-su-virus-e-vaccini-e-sbagliato-il-resto-e-nascosto/ goes some way to explaining that fact-check from the Associated Press
QuoteI read, I believe on your e-book, that preclinical animal studies, done for current covid vaccines, were carried out in a hurry and in parallel with human experimentation thanks to the concession of the fast track procedure but on animal models which do not develop the complication of covid with the consequence that it has not been possible to verify whether or not these vaccines can cause potentiation of the disease.
Yes, I will shortly review the studies Pfizer has submitted to the EMA as proof of the safety and efficacy of this vaccine. Beware that primates are not the correct animal species to test the vaccine precisely because they do not develop the serious and fatal complication. We cannot therefore know if the vaccine protects. Its function would be precisely to prevent people from developing this kind of complication!
Follow the science!!!... but whose science are we talking about?
I didn't respond to the video because I haven't watched it yet. I responded to your other statements. If and when I watch the video, I'll respond to it.
Where are the "facts" for stating that animal trials were not conducted? There's no point attacking the AP with generalizations unless you have something concrete for your initial claim. The researchers quoted in the fact-check are bona fides. Ball not man, as you enjoy saying.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 15, 2021, 05:59:19 PM
I didn't respond to the video because I haven't watched it yet. I responded to your other statements. If and when I watch the video, I'll respond to it.
Where are the "facts" for stating that animal trials were not conducted? There's no point attacking the AP with generalizations unless you have something concrete for your initial claim. The researchers quoted in the fact-check are bona fides. Ball not man, as you enjoy saying.
I just edited it into the original post there. So animal trials happened, but one which were designed to succeed. And fair enough with the ball not man comment, it's not exactly the AP I mean to discredit there, just the whole culture of fact-checking in general as a tool akin to the oft-mentioned ministry of truth. Who fact-checks the fact-checkers?
Edit: wrong tab :-X :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 15, 2021, 06:05:19 PM
Edit: wrong tab :-X :laugh:
I missed that. Ah well.
Here is something really worth reading. Then watch it be violated to its' very core in the next couple of months. The coercion is already in full swing in direct contravention of the code that was drawn up after the Nuremberg trials, of all things.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199711133372006
Green pass?
Fuck off. Thanks.
You 2 need to bum
Shudder! The thoughts of the offspring... :-X
Fear mongering at its finest here.....
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/no-beer-no-cheer-st-20178882
Meeting up with a few friends for cans will lead to...
"We're giving the message because we know what will happen if people meet up. Some of those people will end up in hospital and some of those people will die."
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 16, 2021, 06:33:44 AM
Shudder! The thoughts of the offspring... :-X
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/7b2cdb23c96b644f12b55ca1ea033846/5d51a8c13e6c4bff-a5/s500x750/a1a52243fc1abd7c9fcb90fd85587b968058c6db.gifv)
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 16, 2021, 08:53:32 AM
Fear mongering at its finest here.....
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/no-beer-no-cheer-st-20178882
Meeting up with a few friends for cans will lead to...
"We're giving the message because we know what will happen if people meet up. Some of those people will end up in hospital and some of those people will die."
Well by the law of averages he will probably be right about some of them ending up in hospital. But he is wrong about the deaths. All of them will die. Eventually.
Someone ought to furnish these lads with a chart of age-stratified risk and also a slap in the mouth before any more shit gets out of it.
It's quite difficult to respond to your long posts astfgyl, because you raise one main point, like a video or an article or something, and then in the same post you raise dozens of other points not necessarily even mentioned in the main thing you posted. Anyway, here's a kind of general response to the last few things you've said:
The Surgisphere scandal led to one paper that claimed to show that HCQ didn't work, published in the Lancet, but also to a preprint which claimed to show that ivermectin did work, and also to another paper, this time in the NEJM, about the link between cardiovascular disease and COVID morbidity. All three were retracted when the truth about Surgisphere was revealed. It's not really correct to call the HCQ paper a "hatchet job" by the Lancet. That's not how scientific journals work. Sure, someone fucked up the peer review process, and everyone was a little too eager to demonstrate that Raoult was talking shite about HCQ (because he was), but it's not like The Lancet commissioned the study, and it's not like they were the only ones caught with their trousers down regarding the ultimately shady source of the data.
In fact, the editor of the Lancet - Richard Horton - was the first to criticize premature communication about the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine, stating publicly that nothing should have been said until the results had been peer-reviewed and published according to usual channels ( https://twitter.com/richardhorton1/status/1326100901405331456 ). He also wrote an editorial which I'm sure you'd agree with in large part, called "COVID-19 is not a pandemic" - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67362032000-6/fulltext
Yet, the Lancet are definitely an integral part of the whole medical science machine. But there's no clear over-riding narrative to be drawn from that fact; sometimes they seem to support big pharma, sometimes they don't. It's almost as if the world of science isn't actually black and white.
To the video; in it, Peter McCullough (who starts off badly by throwing up an instant red-flag for potential publication malpractice by boasting about being the most published individual in his domain in history...Raoult was too, partly thanks to him also being an editor of a couple of journals) recommends prescribing colchicine. Has there been a full clinical trial of colchicine? One, so far. Has it been published in a peer-reviewed journal? No, not yet. But that's okay in this context, is it? Hmm, lots of doctors seem to think that the risk-benefit of colchicine is too high to be prescribing it willy-nilly like that. Anyway, McCullough doesn't really spend too much time talking about it, but he does give the impression that it's just a grand thing to be taking. Granted, a lot of the rest of what he says is good sense, regarding better treatment, following up with out-patients, etc., and at least he takes the disease seriously, and also connects his suggestions to a strategic vaccination roll-out. So, all in all, I'm not entirely sure what it is that you agree and don't agree with when it comes to this expert you've rolled out; just sort of whatever works for you? For example, do you think he thinks the mRNA vaccination falls under the definition of a vaccine? Or does he also worry about some sinister, improperly tested gene therapy experiment being imposed upon the world? He doesn't seem to. He seems to just think we should give at least equal attention to treatment. I'd agree with that, even if I don't agree with his approach (in the vid and in the papers he quotes) which appears to be, "If anyone anywhere in the world reckons X has a chance of helping, then try X on your patients, it couldn't be any worse than nothing" (even though X may sometimes actually be worse than nothing).
And finally, as for vitamin D, since it's readily accessible but also potentially toxic in high doses and also not in any way proven as a treatment against COVID, it's probably good that its potential as a cure be down-played a bit. Want to supplement your diet with a wee bit of vitamin D in case maybe it helps you fight a virus? Grand, knock yourself out within the recommended daily amount. Want to stuff yourself with vitamin D in case you might have COVID or because you got a positive result? Really not at all a good idea, but just the kind of thing certain people would do if they started believing it was an actual cure. Ditto for zinc.
Finally, finally: animal trials of vaccines are primarily (not only, but primarily) used for testing the safety of the vaccine, and not primarily for testing its efficiency which, for precisely the species pathophysiology specificity reasons vaccine-skeptic Bolgan gives, can only be done in the target species, i.e., in this case, humans. In short, it's a poor argument for claiming that animal trials were designed to "succeed", since you have to be clear about what they were intended to actually show.
PS I wouldn't put anything past big pharma and governments...but that's hardly justification for blindly pinning everything on them either.
I get the point about responding to all of the seemingly unrelated points. I was just posting the video and the rest of it was completely off the cuff. I had read Horton's letter when it was published regarding the Syndemic and thought it was good, and I was disappointed in The Lancet to see the publication and subsequent retraction when it turned out their data source was a sham. I get that it maybe wasn't their fault but it sort of was, too.
Regarding the doctor being an advocate for vaccination, they all are and that's no surprise. I'm not against the idea in principle myself so I have no issue with there being a product available for anybody at high risk of complications from infection. That of course is not at all the same thing as forcing it into the arms of every low-risk individual in the world. The vaccines are even being tested on infants at the moment. The whole push is wrong, when considering the fact that it is experimental and may not even stop transmission. The metric of success with this treatment was to stop severe disease in vaccinated individuals. Fine, offer it to the risk groups and they will be fine if it works, thereby reducing the death count dramatically. I know a hard sell when I see one and I always run a mile. The manufacturers have indemnity because the long term effects (even 2 years down the line, but longer time scales also apply. Actually the first shot in a volunteer is less than 1 year ago) are completely unknown. So not for me thanks but anyone who wants it, work away. The doctors have often recommended I get the flu vaccine too but I have the right to refuse so I have no issue with the thing being available. Regarding the vaccines being sinister, my suspicions with things like this usually begin and end with profit. Look at the state only settling some of the Pandemrix claims out of court in 2020, 11 years after the event, with the company having indemnity for that one, too. I don't think the companies want to kill us, because that would be a simple reduction of the customer base and would be bad business. Edit again: here is something around that point: https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-execs-highlight-significant-opportunity-hike-covid-vaccine-price-2021-3?r=US&IR=T
Regarding the animal trials, I get that they are a test of immediate safety, but not a great indicator of potential long term effects, such as the ADE which I mentioned but is well covered in this, published in Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-00462-y. So I will be very curious to see what happens when vaccinated individuals are exposed to the wild virus next winter. Hopefully nothing, and it's a roaring success. I might even bite the bullet and take the freedom jab myself in that case, but probably still won't due to the extremely hard sell.
Vitamin D next. I know that the benefit has not been proven for covid, but given its long studied link with reducing severity in other common respiratory illnesses and general level of safety, it's no harm trying. Same for HCQ in low doses and also with Ivermectin. If anyone is going to throw a new technology such as mRNA at us all without any heed paid to possible long term effects, then there should be a control group set up, rather than simply giving it to everyone possible as quickly as possible. That is no way to go about things in any case or in any type of experiment, which this is; a massive experiment. It also shouldn't be disregarded that at least one study has been published which indicates that antibiotics might be a better curative option than any of the above mentioned possibilities and that should surely be explored further, given the generally safe nature of antibiotics. I know the odd thick cunt will drink bleach or eat fish tank cleaner but unfortunately that will always apply to thick cunts with anything that is promoted as a possible solution to any disease and we will just have to live with that. Edit: here's a preprint about azithromycin and clarithromycin and their use as therapeutics which should certainly be further explored and also goes to show that the research on this whole thing in general, while extensive, is still at an early stage and needs minds kept open before going all in on the vaccine solution: https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-181996/v1. I accept its limited sample size and preprint status but it still warrants further investigation at the very least.
Regarding governments, I think at this stage they must know they shat the togs and now they simply have to double down and keep overplaying the level of risk until the vaccine comes as it's their only way out without having to answer a lot of potentially career-finishing questions about what they did with the lockdowns. If they opened up now and everything was fine, they'd be fucked. It's damage limitation for them all now. Then there are those vaccine passports which have been on the cards for a long time, and this is just the right horse to ride that in on, too.
Another point about the human trials is that the volunteers were all healthy people under 50, who generally don't develop severe disease from the thing, so the results are extremely misleading due to the design of the trials themselves. If it's mostly the aged and comorbid who suffer the severe disease, how were they represented in the trials? They weren't is the answer. So saying 95% of test subjects didn't develop severe disease is not really the point when 95% of the demographic represented don't develop it anyway. Designed to succeed rather than proper scientific rigour. Good bit in the BMJ, this is one such example https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037.
I'm no 5G man or anything, I just have a high degree of suspicion around all of this from the beginning and have seen nothing as yet to change my view on it.
I wonder how much text it will take before you two exhaust the sites SQL database.
The more they write, the less we read.... :laugh:
Bump
BBC: "Hundreds of people marched from Hyde Park to Westminster"
Reality: https://youtu.be/NkLgR_l002U
Hundreds. Technically not lying, BBC, but not hard to see why people might not trust national media so much.
Sky news reporting between 400 and 500 in the march.
Watched nearly an hour of that and didn't see one person getting the shit batoned out of them. Waste of my time as well as theirs...
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/how-do-you-treat-coronavirus-here-are-physicians-best-strategies
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 22, 2021, 10:14:55 AM
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/how-do-you-treat-coronavirus-here-are-physicians-best-strategies
That's a bit depressing. No wonder folks cling to faint hope when articles like that give none.
Here's a very reasonable guy who is not a conspiracy theorist in any way at all and has been a mine of decent info since the beginning speaking about HCQ trials and explaining some of the deeds done to discredit it. Sure, it may not work, but actively trying to discredit it is a different story. No one trying to actively discredit the monoclonal antibodies or vaccines though, oddly enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uzXHnUViro
Also not a mention of Ivermectin being tried in that piece, for some reason, but this beaut:
"Most patients also get remdesivir, the lone COVID-19 treatment that's been formally approved by FDA." Which has been shown to do nothing, but costs a fortune, so let's keep trying.
Here is Dr Campbell with a fair review of the evidence around the IVM, which is well worth a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLWQtT7dHGE
Edit: Further reading re IVM and a nod given to Remdesivir, which is still in use at 1000 quid a go..
https://www.manilatimes.net/2021/03/21/opinion/columnists/ivermectin-game-changer-vs-covid-19-whats-the-controversy/853847/
Here, for balance, some potentially good news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/business/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine.html
From my best pals at the NYT and Big pharma, but sure fuck it if it works it works. Hopefully these trials weren't designed to succeed like the initial ones and in opposition to how the therapeutic trials have been rigged.
Double Mutant Variant coming your way.... :abbath:
We've now got a New York variant, which is apparently starting to spread aroung the world, in addition to the California variant, the UK variant, the South African variant, the Brazil variant. Is anyone still catching the original one?
And isn't it nice how everyone can refer to the other strains with geographical names without any problem whatsoever, but dare to use that geographical name for the original, and the shit hits the fan.
Yeah it's gas. Fox got called all kinds of racists for calling it the Wuhan Corona Virus. Which is accurate, and making jokes about Chinese phone books or what have you.
Wasn't part of the reason for not wanting it to be referred to as the China virus (or whatever) that the US is over-flowing with violent idiots just looking for any vague excuse to lash out at others? That's much less likely to happen to someone wearing an NYC cap or a Brazil jersey, isn't it? If you actually think about it for a second, right? Right? Right.
Yes, we must be careful to avoid discrimination for certain groups while being absolutely fine with it for others. We must shape our response based on our assumptions that some countries have more stupid people in them than others. Kent variant AOK, China version not so much. Have we stopped using the uk based nomenclature to avoid bringing the general undercurrent of racism towards the British to the surface in this country? No,we are too civilised for all that lark... oh wait, we sort of did with the B.1.1.7 so maybe we are in the dumb fuck club as well.
By the way, that scary variant stuff is a complete load of shite and a ready made excuse if the jabs don't perform as hoped and also the key to eternal booster shots and lockdown whenever it suits. If anyone wants to look up how B.1.1.7 is detected vs the o.g version it's a bit of a laugh.
There's a version now which can't be detected by the current tests. No really. It's called the white person variant so as not to upset anyone.
Chay-nah Virus......
Chay-nah Virus......
Chay-nah Virus......
Don't be so white, man.
On a different note https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-pubs-update-rules-bars-23784854
I can honestly say that if that's how the pubs have to operate when reopening they can go fuck.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/09/28/coronavirus-wrap-white-house-responds-dr-atlas-criticism-lead-field-vpx.cnn
Watch and weep..
Quote from: astfgyl on March 24, 2021, 03:37:24 PM
Yes, we must be careful to avoid discrimination for certain groups while being absolutely fine with it for others. We must shape our response based on our assumptions that some countries have more stupid people in them than others.
So you think Fox and Trump weren't playing to the gallery by choosing to call it the "China virus" rather than, say, its actual name of SARS-CoV-2? Whatever about Trump, Fox regularly work on the basis of an assumption that their audience is composed largely of highly manipulable idiots who will consistently come back for more and more if you stroke their sensibilities in just the right way whenever you can, consequences be-damned. I mean, that's been Murdoch's (among other media moguls of course) modus operandi around the globe for decades.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 24, 2021, 05:28:16 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 24, 2021, 03:37:24 PM
Yes, we must be careful to avoid discrimination for certain groups while being absolutely fine with it for others. We must shape our response based on our assumptions that some countries have more stupid people in them than others.
So you think Fox and Trump weren't playing to the gallery by choosing to call it the "China virus" rather than, say, its actual name of SARS-CoV-2? Whatever about Trump, Fox regularly work on the basis of an assumption that their audience is composed largely of highly manipulable idiots who will consistently come back for more and more if you stroke their sensibilities in just the right way whenever you can, consequences be-damned. I mean, that's been Murdoch's (among other media moguls of course) modus operandi around the globe for decades.
Ah yeah they were 100 percent aiming to please a certain xenophobic (patriotic? :laugh:) element, and although the argument could be made that the actions of the chinese government and the WHO in the initial stages contributed greatly to the situation we find ourselves in, it's not an argument I'd be willing to stand over given that the evidence points to the thing being in circulation long before we or even the chinese heard of it. They basically appealed to the stereotypical trump supporter with that chy na stuff in much the same way the Irish nationalists here use the unfairness of lockdowns to drum up support for whatever it is that they actually stand for.
Tldr I agree with you and I was mostly just bollixing in the response, making a joke of the conflating of the nomenclature with woke culture
The exact same thing applies to the oh-so-clever readership of the enlightened newspapers you and the triple 'diplômées' post moderns read. They are tickling your bellies in precisely the same way you portray Fox as doing. Highly malleable idiots who think women are men and that making a few pound and keeping it is capitilo-racism.
Originally vaccines were not being advertised as obligatory, now they are completely obligatory and you may not be able to do absolutely anything without getting one. This worries me a great deal, but everyone is fine with it. If I question anything logically I am criticized, another thing to worry about. Not anti science at all, I have relied on medical science many times in my life but could be it be at all possible to *choose* whether or not I want a jab? SARS doesn't have a vaccine and that disappeared pretty fast.
The Nuremberg code is your friend.
I know lots of people who got the shot so far and not one of them got it because they were worried about covid. Every one said they took it because they want their freedom back/want to go on holiday this summer. That's no reason to take an experimental jab, even if it is perfectly safe and effective, neither of which has been proven as yet.
Think about it, government uses emergency, constitution-sidestepping powers to remove freedom under guise of public health and now says you must take the still in trial stage but emergency approved gene therapy to get back the same basic freedom you already had. And nobody has a notion whether or not said jab has long term effects.
And now says you need to mask and distance and stay home even after getting it because its efficacy vs random variants is unknown. And now eu legislation drafted for a vaccine passport before it is proven to work. It's also worth noting that in this country more people have died since the introduction of the shot than the 9 months before. Now we all know correlation does not equal causation, but the same attitude should have been taken with deaths with a positive test result. More nursing home deaths since as well and nobody can say if there's a link or not but still let's make it mandatory.
????????????
I'm all for not killing any pensioners, but this is pure unadulterated bullshit at this stage.
Heard a a 63 year old woman this morning on newstalk who has stage 4 cancer and had fluid on her lungs since November which was not spotted as she couldn't get a hospital appointment. Jesus there will be a serious tsunami of cancer deaths because of this thing. Was heartbreaking to listen to her.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 25, 2021, 02:55:27 PM
I know lots of people who got the shot so far and not one of them got it because they were worried about covid. Every one said they took it because they want their freedom back/want to go on holiday this summer.
Well, whether they're taking it for unrelated selfish reasons or not, if it works then the desired population immunity effect which should be motivating them will be achieved anyway, so all good. The majority of people who will need to be vaccinated for that effect to be achieved don't have any reason to personally fear the disease. That is known. Do you not get this, or are you just refusing to let it enter into your reasoning on the situation?
Coercion by any other name is still coercion. The Nuremberg code was drawn up to prevent exactly what we see happening before our eyes. Tell me, does the vaccine prevent transmission or does it reduce the risk of severe disease? You haven't a clue is the answer.
If the shot was proven to prevent onward transmission (which it isn't), your logic would hold up. If on the other hand, the shot only reduces the risk of severe disease, people who feel at risk need only worry about getting themselves jabbed and forget about what anyone else does. If the shot is proven to be 100% effective against the O.G. strain of the virus, but we keep being told that the other variants are becoming dominant and we don't know if the shot will work against them, the whole point of forcing everyone to get the thing falls asunder, much like how the flu vax is a gamble every year as no-one can tell which strains will be dominant in a given season. Are you refusing to let any of this enter into your reasoning on the situation?
Impfen macht freiheit!! Telling somebody you are removing their basic freedom until they take an experimental injection is pretty far out, when it's laid out in plain fashion.
So so much bullshit doing the rounds and it's like a magic eye picture; once you see it the first time, it becomes easier and easier. Cui bono? Nothing ever really changes on the wealth transfer merry-go-round.
Take masks, for example: I can find you pages and pages on the web about shit like cities on the moon or mars or underwater UFOs, but I can't find any proper evidence that masks work beyond questionable extensions of logic and anecdotal evidence yet here we all are, forced to wear them. How much is the mask industry currently worth, and why are vaccinated people being told they still need to wear them? That's only one example, there are so many more around testing, contact tracing, lockdowns, therapeutics, government overreach.... it's fucking endless and none of it good.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 26, 2021, 08:34:40 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 25, 2021, 02:55:27 PM
I know lots of people who got the shot so far and not one of them got it because they were worried about covid. Every one said they took it because they want their freedom back/want to go on holiday this summer.
Well, whether they're taking it for unrelated selfish reasons or not, if it works then the desired population immunity effect which should be motivating them will be achieved anyway, so all good. The majority of people who will need to be vaccinated for that effect to be achieved don't have any reason to personally fear the disease. That is known. Do you not get this, or are you just refusing to let it enter into your reasoning on the situation?
I think the point he was making is that the governents apear to have created a shit scenario for the majority of the world, and are offering a jab as the only way out.
Lets not forget that covid 19 is not responsible for lockdowns, governments are.
Our Gardaí nowadays....
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3938075649547895&id=100000364951468&sfnsn=wa
Quote from: astfgyl on March 26, 2021, 10:09:24 AM
Tell me, does the vaccine prevent transmission or does it reduce the risk of severe disease? You haven't a clue is the answer.
The latest research seems to show that
1) viral load in positive vaccinated cases is up to four times lower than in positive unvaccinated cases, meaning that the virus multiplies less in vaccinated people (as should be expected), meaning in turn that there is less of the virus to be transmitted from them, and
2) among vaccinated populations, positive case rate does appear to be lower (though this work is preliminary, and not what I'd call robust just yet...but it'll only get easier and easier to run such investigations as more populations are vaccinated).
That is what's out there so far in terms of research, take it or leave it.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 26, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
Our Gardaí nowadays....
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3938075649547895&id=100000364951468&sfnsn=wa
There's a serious amount of trolls everywhere on Facebook. The replies would have ye give up very quickly.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 26, 2021, 11:24:06 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 26, 2021, 10:09:24 AM
Tell me, does the vaccine prevent transmission or does it reduce the risk of severe disease? You haven't a clue is the answer.
The latest research seems to show that
1) viral load in positive vaccinated cases is up to four times lower than in positive unvaccinated cases, meaning that the virus multiplies less in vaccinated people (as should be expected), meaning in turn that there is less of the virus to be transmitted from them, and
2) among vaccinated populations, positive case rate does appear to be lower (though this work is preliminary, and not what I'd call robust just yet...but it'll only get easier and easier to run such investigations as more populations are vaccinated).
That is what's out there so far in terms of research, take it or leave it.
Yeah thanks for reinforcing my point. Sure once we give it to absolutely everyone and eliminate the control group the results can speak for themselves... follow the science and all that
It'll be fucking ages before it's given to absolutely everyone, especially in more densely populated nations, so there'll be massive control groups for the foreseeable.
I know. Especially when all the people who take longer to coerce hold things up as well. I was a bit hasty with that remark, to be fair. Touché
Besides, we already have a fantastic control group for everything in Florida, and they are beating the shit out of all the NPI cohorts since last August. No greater incidence or death rate and a life worth living to boot. And we have a great test case for superspreader events after the suerbowl celebrations (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/super-bowl-2021-post-game-celebrations-spur-covid-concerns/ and look what happened after that to the unvaccinated and unmasked eejits).
It's almost looking at this stage like everywhere did everything wrong, and yet there are still a ridiculous number of governments who are holding the leash way too tight and are way too slow to loosen it for fear the dog is going to turn around and bite their faces off, which it will if they don't manage to get maximum uptake of a vaccine first, so to say they were actually petting the dog and caring for the dog's best interests instead of simply beating the dog with their needless interventions because the dog is too stupid not to jump into the fire of his own volition. It's a fucking dark dark path that we have allowed ourselves to be led down.
Also the multi-billion dollar testing and contract tracing and mask industries and online shopping and video conferencing and social media magnates wouldn't want everyone to be vaccinated too quickly. Especially if the vaccine does turn out to be a great thing (which I wouldn't disregard as a possibility, I'm not gone the whole way) and eliminates the virus (won't happen, it's better to build up a customer base of regulars than one timers). And it just so happens that every one of the advisors to the governments and a lot of the government ministers themselves have a lot more to gain than simply saving a few old folks from the new flu (but conflict of interest is only a myth anyway so we don't talk about that), so expect that to maintain the status quo. The New Normal wasn't designed to be temporary after all, or else it wouldn't be called The New Normal.
So yeah, the control group remains intact.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 26, 2021, 11:18:57 AM
Our Gardaí nowadays....
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3938075649547895&id=100000364951468&sfnsn=wa
The gardai are only doing their job.. there's a post up from the family saying she's talking shite
@astfygl......?
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-arrested-septic-tank-contents-dumped-tipperary-5393276-Mar2021/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 27, 2021, 01:49:53 AM
@astfygl......?
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-arrested-septic-tank-contents-dumped-tipperary-5393276-Mar2021/
Nah not me. There is a hero round where I am who puts up painted signs along the roads. The latest one is very succinct.... "the new normal is shite". They keep getting taken down but there are new ones to look forward to each week. "RTE is the real virus " and such like.
I guess in the eyes of some, the two stories are one and the same
Wouldn't have seen this coming. Total shocker.
https://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-made-39-trillion-during-the-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccines-2021-1
https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/25/covid-19-workers-lost-earnings-ilo-job-losses
Thank fuck we're all in this together or this would be bad news. Greatest wealth transfer in history, anyone?
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210328-5-000-people-attend-barcelona-rock-concert-after-taking-covid-19-rapid-tests
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 29, 2021, 01:03:01 AM
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210328-5-000-people-attend-barcelona-rock-concert-after-taking-covid-19-rapid-tests
Was reading about that yesterday, great news. I remember being very excited last March when an Irish company had the rapid tests ready to go before Paddy's day and had sent out thousands of samples to Irish hospitals (https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/irish-developed-kit-confirms-infection-in-15-minutes-39046582.html). I was thinking here's the solution, we should be back at it all in no time. But the wheels turn slowly for whatever reason. Still, good news is good news.
Since the AstraZeneca cessations seem to be continuing, it's worth noting that all the cases of this, that, and the other, as far as we reasonably know, have been complications and deaths *with* rather than *from* the vaccine, yet rollout has been stopped in several countries nonetheless. Seems that the "fairness" with respect to "dying with rather than from COVID" that was presumed wouldn't be applied is being applied in this context at least.
Several of the people I know who got that shot told me they wouldn't be surprised if it was the final straw for some of the old and frail, given how bad they felt after it.
Saying that, it didn't kill any of them. Informed consent and easy on the coercion and the actual chances it will fuck one up are slim, so I'm still hoping it does the trick for the target audience. They could do with a break, the vulnerable.
Shut it you scaremongering plebs. It's over....
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crowds-gathered-in-dublin-parks-and-along-grand-canal-appalling-minister-says-1104409.html
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 31, 2021, 05:55:32 PM
Shut it you scaremongering plebs. It's over....
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crowds-gathered-in-dublin-parks-and-along-grand-canal-appalling-minister-says-1104409.html
Back to life people... :abbath:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 31, 2021, 05:55:32 PM
Shut it you scaremongering plebs. It's over....
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/crowds-gathered-in-dublin-parks-and-along-grand-canal-appalling-minister-says-1104409.html
Great to see the people copping on to the bullshit, and as disappointing as ever to hear the minister shitting out through his mouth.
Hey Kurt, did you know if we keep up the good work for another 2 weeks we will be allowed to met up with one other family outside? Not in the garden though because the temptation to bring them for even 2 minutes might be too strong and it's so dangerous, we can't take that risk. Still, it looks like all that behaving we were all doing is finally paying off. Yeah! ;)
Macron just announced they're closing all the crèches and schools for the next three weeks.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 31, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
Macron just announced they're closing all the crèches and schools for the next three weeks.
Right as the trials begin in earnest for the adolescents and also babies over 6 months old. Now watch that customer base explode to facilitate the safe return to childcare and early learning.
But nothing to see here, all perfectly scientific and above board, and presented without as much as a smidgen of unnecessary hype or irrational fear. Those pesky variants just keep forcing those poor governments into keeping us all safe proper style. And it kills them to have to do it, it really does blacken their little hearts to care so much.
And thank the lord that following every single bit of their advice to the letter has kept me safe from my own stupidity, no matter how illogical it got or how much it went against the evidence of my eyes and ears and I especially have had to work very hard to overcome the feeling of every fibre of my body telling me that it's all wrong, but I'm getting there so I am, I'm nearly ready to follow the science.
Line up, kids. Time to follow the science!
Forgot the link: https://endpts.com/pharmas-broken-business-model-an-industry-on-the-brink-of-terminal-decline/ from 2017.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 31, 2021, 11:47:08 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 31, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
Macron just announced they're closing all the crèches and schools for the next three weeks.
Right as the trials begin in earnest for the adolescents and also babies over 6 months old. Now watch that customer base explode to facilitate the safe return to childcare and early learning.
?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 01, 2021, 12:01:37 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 31, 2021, 11:47:08 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 31, 2021, 07:42:22 PM
Macron just announced they're closing all the crèches and schools for the next three weeks.
Right as the trials begin in earnest for the adolescents and also babies over 6 months old. Now watch that customer base explode to facilitate the safe return to childcare and early learning.
?
Why are the services closing? I've only heard the story here
I would presume a combination of less mixing of children at school while also obliging as many adults as possible to stay at home, working from home if possible. I'm not saying it's a good measure, it sure as hell doesn't suit us in our household. There are no "trials" on adolescents happening here that I know of; vaccination roll-out here is still at over 70s or over 50s with known comorbidities, will be down to all over 60s in a couple of weeks, then all over 50s a week after that. That's the planned schedule at least.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/01/almost-third-of-uk-covid-hospital-patients-readmitted-within-four-months
That stuff about long term organ damage would give you the heebie jeebies.
I read the BMJ report, why are groups separated into 'white' and 'non-white'? I don't see the point of that.
astfygl........
Small trial (n = 800) shows 100% efficacy of Pfizer vaccine against South African variant. So should we chalk that result up as a wasted business opportunity??
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 01, 2021, 07:45:18 AM
That stuff about long term organ damage would give you the heebie jeebies.
I read the BMJ report, why are groups separated into 'white' and 'non-white'? I don't see the point of that.
I'm not sure but perhaps something to do with testing on groups with different genetic makeups and of different ethnic backgrounds, and how that may factor into the results?
You'd hope so. I'd love to read something of substance in the news which didn't have any references to race.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 01, 2021, 12:23:37 AM
I would presume a combination of less mixing of children at school while also obliging as many adults as possible to stay at home, working from home if possible. I'm not saying it's a good measure, it sure as hell doesn't suit us in our household. There are no "trials" on adolescents happening here that I know of; vaccination roll-out here is still at over 70s or over 50s with known comorbidities, will be down to all over 60s in a couple of weeks, then all over 50s a week after that. That's the planned schedule at least.
There are trials being done on kids over 6 months and adolescents in the US for sure, and I think Britain, but I'd have to look the Brits up again. Basically if the schools go back and all is fine, then there is no need to get the young kids jabbed and therefore no need for the vaccine passports. That won't do when GAVI have a plan to vaccinate 7 billion of us. The plan here was also to get the vulnerable done and then freedom, but as time goes on, more and more must be considered high risk and the danger needs to be extended to all groups as soon as. So it's a win win for government and pharma if only they can keep it going for long enough before everyone cops on that the level of risk for most groups has been horribly exaggerated, so restrictions must be kept in place til the passports. That's the endgame as I see it, those passports which are very little to do with infectious disease and everything to do with social control. Try going outside your prescribed distance limit when you have to be scanned everywhere you go.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 01, 2021, 01:54:21 PM
You'd hope so. I'd love to read something of substance in the news which didn't have any references to race.
Well due to it being gene therapy, it would make sense to know the genetic background of the test subjects. Also, given the mechanics of how the thing is supposed to work, it should work just as well on any of the variants as the OG, so no surprise. The variant scare is a load of shite anyway, I'm calling that now. Sure B117 is so much more infectious and dangerous that infections and deaths have gone down as it has become more dominant. Same in SA with the SA variant, going down without the vaccine as well. Brazil, I'll have to look into.
For anyone interested in looking at things, go to worldometers and find a country and look at the death rates since the introduction of the jabs. Not saying there is a link, it might be entirely coincidental, but it's pretty uniform. Israel, Gibraltar, and the Isle of Man are nice little petri dishes due to the high level of takeup. Ireland as well as it happens (not in the general population but in the care homes where the rollout began the deaths went way up), and the UK. Would have to see more, but it's pretty consistent and also entirely coincidental.
This shit as well. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/up-to-100-000-workers-will-permanently-lose-their-jobs-due-to-covid-central-bank-warns
About time the lingo changed there, from saying covid caused the lost jobs, when it was actually the restrictions that did the trick to destroy the economy. Every time the govt or NPHET say the virus is doing this that or the other, it's actually the response to it which did it. There are enough places in the world by now to use as control groups so the arguments that the sky would have fallen in without restrictions are a waste of everyone's time.
Government? What government..?
https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/level-5-religious-services-5397140-Apr2021/
https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10112878091987221
Nope, not creepy at all. Not even a small bit.
Oh look!!! https://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1377373135780057090
Wow, imagine that....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mKYnTZvIUM&ab_channel=NHS
Quote from: astfgyl on April 01, 2021, 11:13:51 PM
https://www.facebook.com/zuck/posts/10112878091987221
Nope, not creepy at all. Not even a small bit.
I mean, everything that android does and says is creepy, so...
A mate of mine in London just tested positive (a couple of days after getting his first jab, typical). He's got serious asthma, so there are respitory worries. So far he's got a serious dose of the chills, fingers crossed that's bad as it'll get.
Lol....
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-56485657#16166407606552
(not)
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 07, 2021, 12:16:09 PM
Lol....
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-56485657#16166407606552
(not)
Fuckin ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/6POsmjrbjI0
Immunity passports for what exactly?
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/29/dozens-in-central-florida-contract-covid-19-after-being-fully-vaccinated
Quote from: astfgyl on April 07, 2021, 12:25:19 PM
Fuckin ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/6POsmjrbjI0
I concur, this guy's arguments are fuckin ridiculous.
97% false positive rate? I'm pretty sure this guy doesn't know what a false positive rate actually is. Here's an in context summary from one of the scientists who has been most vocal since last year about giving false positive rate the attention it deserves:
https://www.icd10monitor.com/false-positives-in-pcr-tests-for-covid-19
He makes a strong argument, which goes in your favour, without resorting to garbage numberwang.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 07, 2021, 01:38:23 PM
Immunity passports for what exactly?
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/29/dozens-in-central-florida-contract-covid-19-after-being-fully-vaccinated
Quote"I don't think the public is aware that it doesn't mean you're not getting the virus, and it doesn't mean you're not getting sick. There is still a chance," Rewerts said.
Yes, a 5% chance. 5% out of millions is...? The mumps vaccine, with two doses, is about 88% effective. It takes four doses for the polio vaccine to achieve ~99% efficacy. Welcome to the world of vaccines.
Same type of flawed maths as is being applied to the false positive rate question, but now just working in the opposite direction.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 07, 2021, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 07, 2021, 01:38:23 PM
Immunity passports for what exactly?
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/03/29/dozens-in-central-florida-contract-covid-19-after-being-fully-vaccinated
Quote"I don't think the public is aware that it doesn't mean you're not getting the virus, and it doesn't mean you're not getting sick. There is still a chance," Rewerts said.
Yes, a 5% chance. 5% out of millions is...? The mumps vaccine, with two doses, is about 88% effective. It takes four doses for the polio vaccine to achieve ~99% efficacy. Welcome to the world of vaccines.
Same type of flawed maths as is being applied to the false positive rate question, but now just working in the opposite direction.
So, immunity passports for what again? And how many of the vaccinated do you think have been exposed to sars covi 2? These positive results are the only ones we can consider exposed to the virus, because how do we know those that don't catch it were ever exposed, post-vaccination? How many do we know were definitely never exposed and how can we tell that the supposed immunity wasn't naturally acquired over the course of the last year when as far as we were led to believe, asymptomatic cases were a massive part of it all? How many were tested for evidence of prior infection before vaccination? So many questions, so many absolutely fucking bullshit answers and all designed to say the thing works rather than any unbiased assessment of the actual results. I wonder why $$$$?
Dunno about the FPR maths, but here is a bit of an exercise.
If one does 20,000 tests a day with an FPR of between 1% and 3%, what is the likely number of false positives picked up during the 20,000 tests? Let's say the tests are done now, when the prevalence is low in the community for the nearly 3% and not during season, when it will be closer to 1%. (Source for FPR is Cillian De Gascun, NPHET menber and head of National Virus Reference Lab). Let's also take it that the overall positivity rate is 5% to keep it easy and we can say there have been 600 cases announced before we go figure. How accurate of a picture is being painted by the daily announcements of case numbers?
Is that the sort of thing you mean by flawed maths, and how would you go about correcting it?
My 5 year old son did his own version of the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel and it was more accurate a representation of the real picture than the absolute horseshit we get shovelled into us every evening.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 07, 2021, 02:56:22 PM
Dunno about the FPR maths, but here is a bit of an exercise.
If one does 20,000 tests a day with an FPR of between 1% and 3%, what is the likely number of false positives picked up during the 20,000 tests? Let's say the tests are done now, when the prevalence is low in the community for the nearly 3% and not during season, when it will be closer to 1%. (Source for FPR is Cillian De Gascun, NPHET menber and head of National Virus Reference Lab). Let's also take it that the overall positivity rate is 5% to keep it easy and we can say there have been 600 cases announced before we go figure. How accurate of a picture is being painted by the daily announcements of case numbers?
Is that the sort of thing you mean by flawed maths, and how would you go about correcting it?
The link I posted goes step-by-step through an example with 0.5% FPR, with the proper equations to use given, so I'm not sure what extra point you're trying to make here. What I was saying about the video you posted, is that clearly that guy is an authority on nothing, because the notion of a 97% FPR is both ridiculous and also unnecessarily exaggerated to begin severe critique of COVID response. Again, there are plenty of strong arguments to be made against what is happening, but there is also a bombardment of absolute crap, and very little evidence of people being able to separate wheat from chaff.
QuoteSo, immunity passports for what again? And how many of the vaccinated do you think have been exposed to sars cov2? These positive results are the only ones we can consider exposed to the virus, because how do we know those that don't catch it were ever exposed, post-vaccination? How many do we know were definitely never exposed and how can we tell that the supposed immunity wasn't naturally acquired over the course of the last year when as far as we were led to believe, asymptomatic cases were a massive part of it all?
I don't know what you're trying to say here, but here's something that lays out the numbers. Now bear in mind that in Florida over three million people have received both doses:
QuoteIf we vaccinated a population of 100 000 and protected 95% of them, that would leave 5000 individuals diseased over 3 months, which is almost the current overall COVID-19 case rate in the UK. Rather, a 95% vaccine efficacy means that instead of 1000 COVID-19 cases in a population of 100 000 without vaccine (from the placebo arm of the abovementioned trials, approximately 1% would be ill with COVID-19 and 99% would not) we would expect 50 cases (99·95% of the population is disease-free, at least for 3 months).
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00075-X/fulltext
What's a case again?
Edit: Those figures are actually meaningless because unless we know how many individuals were actually exposed to the virus, we haven't a clue how effective anything is, so all we are doing is supposing. The data behind this is piss poor much like many other claims against it. The difference is that we are being subjected to pure propaganda about the effectiveness of the vaccine, when the figures don't hold up to even the most basic scrutiny. It is the same with the testing and the same with the masking and will be the same with the immunity passports that don't even mean you are immune. Pure shite.
Did you do the FPR maths up there? Why are they assuming 0.5% when the head of the NVR lab says it is 1 - 3% depending on prevalence? The 97% FPR assumption comes from the fact that as so many tests are done, the final tally of positives each day falls within the possibility of every single one being false. God knows where the exact figure of 97% comes from but it is probably along those lines. If 3% of positives are false and we have a positivity rate of say 3% from all tests, what does that actually tell us? Nothing. Nothing at all.
ICU COVID occupation in Paris central is the highest it's been since last May, overall COVID hospitalizations same. Right now, there are more people with COVID lying in ICU in Paris than there were total beds in ICU a year ago.
They're all definitely cases anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 07, 2021, 03:54:50 PM
ICU COVID occupation in Paris central is the highest it's been since last May, overall COVID hospitalizations same. Right now, there are more people with COVID lying in ICU in Paris than there were total beds in ICU a year ago.
They're all definitely cases anyway.
How were they diagnosed?
Quote from: astfgyl on April 07, 2021, 03:37:29 PM
Did you do the FPR maths up there? Why are they assuming 0.5% when the head of the NVR lab says it is 1 - 3% depending on prevalence? The 97% FPR assumption comes from the fact that as so many tests are done, the final tally of positives each day falls within the possibility of every single one being false. God knows where the exact figure of 97% comes from but it is probably along those lines. If 3% of positives are false and we have a positivity rate of say 3% from all tests, what does that actually tell us? Nothing. Nothing at all.
While I haven't followed all the nonsense here I do want to find out more about your reasoning in the last sentence. A positivity rate of 3% with a false positive rate of 3% actually does give loads of information if you put it into actual numbers.
Say 10000 people were tested and we get 3% positive - that's 300 positives. A false positive rate of 3% then means that 9 out those 300 people tested positive that shouldn't have. This is 0.09% of the initial 10,000 sample, or in layman's terms - fuck all.
So, I think correctly identifying the 293 people who were positive is in fact telling us something.
Unless I'm totally wrong on why you think the maths doesn't add up. And, to be clear, I'm talking here purely in terms of the figures and calculations, not the larger conspiracy at hand.
Astfgyl; the link I gave contained an illustration of how FPR translates into real world terms. It used convenient numbers to make it easy to follow, and it used a low FPR to show how this could nevertheless translate into large numbers of incorrect diagnosis (hence, the link went generally in your sense). The reason I posted it was to show you the difference between some random EU representative who doesn't understand the numbers he's using (neither at the time of using them or later on while compiling his own greatest hits video) and someone who does understand. There are lots of decent arguments that go in the general direction of how you interpret what's going on, but there has been zero discernment in this thread between that and utter nonsense.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 08, 2021, 05:55:51 PM
Astfgyl; the link I gave contained an illustration of how FPR translates into real world terms. It used convenient numbers to make it easy to follow, and it used a low FPR to show how this could nevertheless translate into large numbers of incorrect diagnosis (hence, the link went generally in your sense). The reason I posted it was to show you the difference between some random EU representative who doesn't understand the numbers he's using (neither at the time of using them or later on while compiling his own greatest hits video) and someone who does understand. There are lots of decent arguments that go in the general direction of how you interpret what's going on, but there has been zero discernment in this thread between that and utter nonsense.
Ah yer man in video. Fair enough. I thought it was nice for an MEP to actually ask a few questions for once, it's been a while. Hard to argue with his points around who profits and benefits from all of this.
As for the 3% thing, I think I just worded that badly. I don't know where they pull the 97% FPR from was what I meant. I am very skeptical about it all but even I don't think it's anything like that. Of course there are many other finer points to argue over, such as asymptomatic "cases" counting and so forth, but I have done enough research into PCR to understand it's problem isn't inaccuracy. Whatever it is supposed to find, it finds. Sometimes too well (fragments etc), but at least there won't be false negatives coming from it if that was the worry. I've gotten very good at sorting the wheat from the chaff when it comes to info though and very careful with the sources these days after going wrong a few times. There is enough official data out there to turn this on its' head already so I try stick to that stuff where possible.
It makes sense though that the FPR would rise at a time where there is low prevalence. Less chance when testing people with symptoms but the test anyone at all approach would pull up a fair few duds. Assays can fail, too, which doesn't seem to have been considered for the most part in the moneymaking orgy. Not many people retested in the absence of clinical symptoms. Florida publishes the CT values, which is something we could be doing here and as far as I know the magic 40 CT is still in play in Ireland, despite HIQA and the WHO both recommending against it.
The only reasons that this thing isn't over yet is because of money and social control (which probably leads to more money at the end of the day).
New hydroxychloroquine clinical trial meta-analysis. Even Ioannidis is in on this one.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22446-z
"Stop, stop...it's already dead!"
If the same scientific rigour was applied to the vaccine results, it would be even more dead. Still, this is about hcq and the results leave little room for doubt. Saying that, I'll have to give it a proper read but initial impression is that it is most certainly dead.
Next up for the chop will be the ivm, wait and see.
It will simply have to be something more expensive and with no results either, but certainly more expensive at least. Funny how remdesivir doesn't perform but is authorised all the same and far less known about it than hcq or ivm.
Anyway it matters not a fuck because this thing is over in all but name. The silly actions of governments and the greed of pharma companies and vaccine backers continue unabated but other than all the silliness it's over.
Edit because it's not worth the bump but if something is so infectious that you can spread it by breathing or catch it just walking past people, why the swab behind the eyes or up the arse to test for it? Why not simply breathe on the swab and see if it's positive? And if the swab can't catch it, the chances are that no one else can either, given the frightening accuracy of pcr testing. The answer is because the arse would simply fall out of the whole scam if we applied logic to it and the profits would dry up.
https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?IDNUMBER=1074247
Interesting side effects on this 2 year old in the US, as reported on VAERS. Because like it's really crucial that 2 year olds get the jabs to stop people dying in nursing homes.
Fairly minor effects, mind. Most likely coincidence like all the other reported effects. I'm sure the companies are confident enough in their products to cover any liabilities anyway... yeah
Youtube have censored Ivor Cummins' latest simple five minute video showing the key Ireland Mortality reality.
There were approximately 250 fewer deaths in Ireland in 2020 than there were in 2017 (flu year).
Make sure you subscribe to his bitchute channel: https://www.bitchute.com/video/rzec2ivd6MQ/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 19, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Youtube have censored Ivor Cummins' latest simple five minute video showing the key Ireland Mortality reality.
There were approximately 250 fewer deaths in Ireland in 2020 than there were in 2017 (flu year).
Make sure you subscribe to his bitchute channel: https://www.bitchute.com/video/rzec2ivd6MQ/
The 'banned' video is in the Bitchute link...
'We have the evidence'
https://prepareforchange.net/2021/04/17/reiner-fuellmich-we-have-the-evidence/
"There were approximately 250 fewer deaths in Ireland in 2020 than there were in 2017."
Hmm, don't suppose that would have something to do with the fact we were all at home, not getting a virus, not driving to work, and so on. Measuring excess mortality is way more complex than simply throwing out this nothing statement, as if it was some kind of secret being uncovered.
Nah it's more to do with the misrepresentation of the main cause of death in many of the cases.
And if it was the lockdown, where are all the cases of shop workers dropping like flies? Not one case in even one of the shops where I live. Many cases of health workers suffering with it though, which would indicate that it is prevalent in nursing homes and hospitals but not so much in the general population.
Lockdown is a waste of time. Look at Texas and what has happened since the lifting of all restrictions, or look at Florida since last August. We have been had, and I include our political representatives in that. China pulled a fast one at the start and everyone dived right in. It's been over the year now so we can make comparisons with places who didn't shit the togs like we did here. Don't take my word for it though, check out the places I mentioned. They are gone back to normal and the sky hasn't fallen in.
Edit: going to correct myself there and acknowledge that it was more likely the situation in Italy which put the shits up the governments of Europe than anything coming out of China, although the idea of lockdown in itself is a Chinese export.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 19, 2021, 07:03:47 PM
Youtube have censored Ivor Cummins' latest simple five minute video showing the key Ireland Mortality reality.
There were approximately 250 fewer deaths in Ireland in 2020 than there were in 2017 (flu year).
Make sure you subscribe to his bitchute channel: https://www.bitchute.com/video/rzec2ivd6MQ/
Although ivor can get a bit excited at times, he is a great source of information and has been proven right time and time again over the last year. Well worth it for the info we don't get on the state propaganda channels
Quote from: Nazgûl on April 19, 2021, 08:17:19 PM
"There were approximately 250 fewer deaths in Ireland in 2020 than there were in 2017."
Hmm, don't suppose that would have something to do with the fact we were all at home, not getting a virus, not driving to work, and so on. Measuring excess mortality is way more complex than simply throwing out this nothing statement, as if it was some kind of secret being uncovered.
True, but where are the lorry loads of corpses these gobsheens promised us at the beginning of all this last year? Sure as hell wasn't their beloved lockdowns that saved us all.
Florida isn't exactly a shining example though: https://eu.tallahassee.com/story/news/2021/04/19/covid-19-cases-florida-rising-ranks-ranking-vaccine-spread-deaths-week/115717582/
Texas does seem to be on a positive slope though. Huge number of cases there in total; that plus 35% of the population at least partially vaccinated, maybe they've achieved some level of effective immunity.
Basically the two states are an example that the world doesn't end when the restrictions do. They will have their ups and downs as will everywhere else, which is to be expected with a seasonal and endemic virus.
What they have that we don't is a life worth living without the government trying to micromanage everyone's life, and in my mind it's worth it.
Also it says Florida is 10th in terms of increase, but no mention of the other 9 higher ones and how they are going with restrictions. Of course it is a local publication so that is to be expected. There will also be a massive corporate weight behind disparaging the Floridians' approach which can't be dismissed (look at big tech's approach to information for examples), and the fact it has a republican governor won't help either, so reports of doom must be taken with a pinch of salt when it's clear that the lockdown states aren't faring better.
Governor DeSantis has also signed an executive order against vaccine passports, which makes him a bit of a legend in my book. Now I mention it, what did anyone make of the vaers (vaccine reaction reports) report on the 2 year old who died after the Pfizer jab? The soulless cunts will stop at nothing to widen that customer base. The lobbying must be insane.
https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?IDNUMBER=1074247
There it is again for anyone who missed it. Strange the media silence, but if a 2 year old child died of covid it would be front page. No bias there then.
I don't know how to read it tbh. Vaccinated the 25th, onset of something (?) the 1st, died on the 3rd. No idea why the infant was vaccinated is given. What do you make of it? Or, what does it mean even?
A reverse search of the catalogue number is revealing enough though; the original page itself, plus exclusively either conspiracy media outlets like The Daily Expose or social media posts, with speculation going as far as "Parents murder their own child" (that one's a bitchute video, incidentally):
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22VAERS+ID+1074247%22
The VAERS database is non-verified, it seems, which may explain all the missing context I asked about above; symptoms of whatever it was that "onset", whether infant was part of a trial, etc.
Why in the name of god would anyone be giving 2 doses of the Pfizer shot to a 2 year old is the only question worth asking of that report. The details of the death are indeed unknown but what it has done is confirm that the kid got the jab.
There was no need for it, but there's the greed for it. It's dirty. Would you give it to your own kids? I wouldn't.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 19, 2021, 07:37:48 PM
'We have the evidence'
https://prepareforchange.net/2021/04/17/reiner-fuellmich-we-have-the-evidence/
If you go to the "about us" section of this Prepare For Change crowd you will notice that this organisation bears all the hallmarks of a cult.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on April 20, 2021, 03:18:56 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 19, 2021, 07:37:48 PM
'We have the evidence'
https://prepareforchange.net/2021/04/17/reiner-fuellmich-we-have-the-evidence/
If you go to the "about us" section of this Prepare For Change crowd you will notice that this organisation bears all the hallmarks of a cult.
So FF/FG members?
Quote from: astfgyl on April 19, 2021, 11:35:28 PM
Why in the name of god would anyone be giving 2 doses of the Pfizer shot to a 2 year old is the only question worth asking of that report. The details of the death are indeed unknown but what it has done is confirm that the kid got the jab.
There was no need for it, but there's the greed for it. It's dirty. Would you give it to your own kids? I wouldn't.
For all you know the child had serious respiratory issues. Covid has killed some children. It's effects on the young and healthy are not as benign as you seem to think.
Quote from: lifeeternal on April 20, 2021, 09:11:18 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 19, 2021, 11:35:28 PM
Why in the name of god would anyone be giving 2 doses of the Pfizer shot to a 2 year old is the only question worth asking of that report. The details of the death are indeed unknown but what it has done is confirm that the kid got the jab.
There was no need for it, but there's the greed for it. It's dirty. Would you give it to your own kids? I wouldn't.
For all you know the child had serious respiratory issues. Covid has killed some children. It's effects on the young and healthy are not as benign as you seem to think.
Vaers report states no underlying issues, so that fucks that. Can you point me to the evidence of its effects on young children? Specifically in the age group mentioned if possible.
Who knows who filled in the VAERS report though. It's not an official government source, and any healthgiver or patient or member of the public can file a report. With nothing else to corroborate, who knows if there aren't typos in it, for example. What there definitely isn't in it is any level of context allowing to draw "parents murder child" or "2 year old killed by this Wicked NWO Genetic Code Injection! WHY?" type conclusions.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 20, 2021, 02:22:20 PM
Who knows who filled in the VAERS report though. It's not an official government source, and any healthgiver or patient or member of the public can file a report. With nothing else to corroborate, who knows if there aren't typos in it, for example. What there definitely isn't in it is any level of context allowing to draw "parents murder child" or "2 year old killed by this Wicked NWO Genetic Code Injection! WHY?" type conclusions.
You're right about the conclusions, there's nothing to draw them from. As I was saying, the only question is why give it to a 2 year old at all. I found the entry on the vaers site and it only gives the same info as the one I linked. For all we know the cause of death is fully unrelated, so the question I asked is all there is to go on. I would trust the info on the site, as it isn't only a thing since the new jabs. It covers all types of vaccines going back years.
For what it's worth, I signed a permission slip for my young lads to get booster shots in the school, and having done my research am happy enough with the safety to allow it. Informed consent and all that. I'm not against the concept of vaccination as long as it is properly trialled and the safety data is available. None of that is the case with the covid ones though and people should be properly informed of this.
Also worth noting that health officials worldwide have began to downplay the effectiveness of the vaccines of late for some reason that is not yet clear. Variants can apparently escape too, so people should know they might be taking it for nothing. Informed consent again instead of impfen macht freiheit, which is turning out to be bullshit as time goes on. Shots or not, we will all be back in lockdown this winter.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 20, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Also worth noting that health officials worldwide have began to downplay the effectiveness of the vaccines of late for some reason that is not yet clear.
Your man Luke O'Neill seemingly refused his dose .
https://www.bitchute.com/video/cYHd4burC9Jj/
Quote from: Bigmac on April 20, 2021, 02:56:47 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 20, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Also worth noting that health officials worldwide have began to downplay the effectiveness of the vaccines of late for some reason that is not yet clear.
Your man Luke O'Neill seemingly refused his dose .
https://www.bitchute.com/video/cYHd4burC9Jj/
Of course he turned it down, sure he is one of the selfless heroes of our time. I was offered it myself and turned it down too, for whatever reason he's giving.
https://selfservehosteu.pfizer.com/file/8180113e-f6c0-40ae-a1f1-ee3808375180
"Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man." - Aristotle.
Get em indoctrinated with fear as soon as
If "vaccines help suppress the spread of diseases" is indoctrination then consider me the proudest Kool-Aid chugger in all of Jonestown!
You haven't read my own take on vaccinations if you think I'm against them.
What I am against is indoctrination of 5 year olds with needless fear and the creation of germophobes of the future, sponsored by Pfizer, a company with a track record of deceit which has paid out over 4 billion in fines and settlements over the last few years. And not only is it sponsored by the very shitehawks who will reap the future profits of this needless fear, it is being delivered in national schools at the taxpayer's expense.
Getting them all ready for the covid jab. The sick cunts are not the target audience, the sick cunts are those posing as the saviours.
I knew they were coming for the kids when I saw the late late toy show last year, which was one of the sickest things I've ever seen. Proper Hitler youth level of propaganda.
I have! I know you're not anti-vax generally, but I'm not sure what the take is RE: this particular lesson? Seems hyperbolic to me tbh, I don't see it as fear mongering. Had similar lessons in school and I'm not surprised they'd be addressing coronavirus currently, because, yknow yerself.
Lots of children are anxious about injections, we've all seen it at some point. Really not seeing anything sinister with this myself.
I've two 5 year olds who will be exposed to this next week and I think it's wrong to be using the school as a sales tool like this. I did the decent thing last year and told them that they couldn't catch covid, after the school put the shits up them, ruining my hard work of the previous months in making sure they had never heard of a corona virus.
Even when they got other jabs, I told them it was vitamins to keep them healthy
Also to clarify, I have a 12 and 15 year old and I have no problem with them learning about vaccines and viruses, but can't condone the shits being put up the small lads in the same way.
Quote from: Bigmac on April 20, 2021, 02:56:47 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 20, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Also worth noting that health officials worldwide have began to downplay the effectiveness of the vaccines of late for some reason that is not yet clear.
Your man Luke O'Neill seemingly refused his dose .
https://www.bitchute.com/video/cYHd4burC9Jj/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-vaccine-i-ll-be-first-in-line-says-luke-o-neill-1.4417855%3fmode=amp
Quote from: astfgyl on April 20, 2021, 06:03:14 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on April 20, 2021, 02:56:47 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 20, 2021, 02:42:36 PM
Also worth noting that health officials worldwide have began to downplay the effectiveness of the vaccines of late for some reason that is not yet clear.
Your man Luke O'Neill seemingly refused his dose .
https://www.bitchute.com/video/cYHd4burC9Jj/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-vaccine-i-ll-be-first-in-line-says-luke-o-neill-1.4417855%3fmode=amp
Good find :laugh: The integrity of these people is comforting.
One of the purest manifestations of bullshit I've ever seen and very close to the magic unadulterated bollix that politicians worldwide have been striving for since the dawn of time. A bit of a laugh in this thread for a change
https://twitter.com/Toibin1/status/1384460284526432256/photo/1
Literally nobody at work except for management has their face bikinis pulled over their nose any more. It's fecking over dumb governments...
Yet another great piece from Sky News Australia...
https://youtu.be/nL1HuTYcoC4
Mate of mine works for the company who apparently own all of the PCR testing devices in Ireland. He says the money they pay for them is beyond ridiculous, inflated prices cos they go through the HSE.
He's been about a few hospitals around the country. Lots of them building car parks for paid parking, not much noney being spent on upgrading the actual health service though :-X
Quote from: Giggles on April 21, 2021, 08:45:08 PM
Lots of them building car parks for paid parking, not much noney being spent on upgrading the actual health service though :-X
Genuine question, are hospital car parks privately owned and run yet back home? They are here.
The way my mate was giving out about them gave me the impression that they would be run by private firms yeah.
Not looking good for India:
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1384782949879517185/photo/1
India has a Massive population coupled with abject poverty meaning if a large portion of the population couldn't work due to government lockdowns they would die from starvation rather than covid. Let's hope our quarantine rules prevent a major spread of these new variants.
We've had a huge wave of positive cases through campus the last couple of days, since almost all the first year master interns decided to have a party Friday night (can't and don't blame them), and now about 50% have tested positive with all the others being contact cases. One of the other institute directors got so pissed off he just banned all first year master students from his building for 7 days, regardless of whether they were at the party in question. All very funny, especially considering the missus' intern is one of the positive cases but not mine 8)
We should really have set aside a month last year and obliged all the 18 to 35 year olds to party non-stop on some island somewhere until they were all infected and recovered.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 22, 2021, 10:19:28 AM
Not looking good for India:
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1384782949879517185/photo/1
Depends how you look at it.... https://twitter.com/ThinkingSlow1/status/1385172144036929537/photo/1
As with all things, it will take a while for the dust to settle but the media would never wait before trying to put the shits up us all. Not even the broadsheets anymore. So we shall see.
For fun, here's another couple of twitter links: https://twitter.com/MConceptions/status/1384253545524862981 and https://twitter.com/MConceptions/status/1383102587591929859/photo/1
This person does these analyses on various countries throughout their feed but tbh I haven't even attempted to verify any of them other than the Ireland one (https://twitter.com/rzioni/status/1381902902432780289/photo/1), which was pretty spot on with its' figures but much too soon to make anything of it. In fact I'm not even saying these figures mean anything at all because correlation does not equal causation, much like how Texans unmasking can't be blamed for the drop in cases and how the high numbers in Michigan can't be blamed on continued restrictions either. I think myself that seasonality is a far larger influence than it has been credited with, but to accept seasonality is to accept a greatly reduced impact of lockdowns.
Quote from: Blackout on April 22, 2021, 11:03:26 AM
Let's hope our quarantine rules prevent a major spread of these new variants.
Not a hope that they will prevent anything. There will be a variant for every agenda. How did the B117 variant turn out in the end anyway? That was supposed to be far deadlier than the original, which itself was observed to have many mutations by the time it went around the world. As far as I know in this country, as the percentage of cases of B117 increased, the total number of cases decreased, which says not a lot about how much worse it was, despite the media doing all they can to frighten the shit out of us all.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 22, 2021, 03:30:07 PM
We should really have set aside a month last year and obliged all the 18 to 35 year olds to party non-stop on some island somewhere until they were all infected and recovered.
As funny as that sounds, it's not far off the mark. I'd have missed it myself, but fake IDs have surely improved over the years
Dayum......
https://youtu.be/Byw3qU8hwOk
I've just watched this video and there is a strong chance that it has set the new record for The Most Wrong Things Said in Under 7 Minutes Ever. Listen to both sides of this "argument" and take a wild stab at where it's going to end up. A real fucking desperate sales pitch for a lot of things that no one wants, it's actually as bad as one of those ads with a cunt of a chef selling a set of knives and !!wait!! there's more!! etc, and sorry for the twitter link but the thing happened for definite anyway so don't worry about the source.
Bear in mind that 22 states have so far removed mask mandates and some have removed every possible restriction, but the news is still holding a debate like this on what sort of benefits should be afforded to the vaccinated people. What are the people in the 22 states thinking while listening to this? Absolute cloud cuckoo land stuff and you'd have to be in cloud cuckoo land yourself not to see it. Talking about the likes of taking off the mask outside for fuck's sake. Who in the name of fucking god has actually been following all the restrictions to the letter anyway??? Fucking gimps all over the world going on about other people not following restrictions and there isn't a cunt anywhere who has followed them all. Don't forget that even touching your own face is ill-advised now. But of course we have all been touching our faces since the first day that we weren't supposed to, and some of us even had the wherewithal to move within the magical 6 feet barrier we are supposed to maintain between ourselves and others like the proper fucking daredevils we are!
Some of us even had sex with other people, despite the possibility that we may have been asymptomatic and passed it on to those that we care about or wanted to fuck (whichever it doesn't matter, it obviously translates directly into deaths of really old and broke up people in nursing homes no matter how logically we look at it). Some people even put their own children at potential risk by going near them or tucking them into bed. Some of us visited our mothers and took the risk of killing them unawares. We are the fucking daredevils of the new normal and we piss on the graves of the victims by simply going about life as if it was the old normal.
And yeah it's the US but the exact same shiting debate is happening all over the world. Look at NZ, no impact, life going on as normal and suddenly the shit with the no jab no job when they haven't even seen how it's working for the rest of the world. I mean who the fuck is the control group in NZ when the thing isn't even supposedly circulating there? Go on, one of ye say ye have followed it all and still think it's all above board, given that it is about to change everything for the foreseeable future. Anyway..
https://twitter.com/i/status/1387498073849479179
I normally stay out of the general discourse for this but this is hilarious
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1387080575564099589?s=19
Not the actual article itself - great that a country who got hit as badly as the US is starting to make some sort of move forward and is comfortable enough to officially recommend removing masks - but the fuckin replies and quote tweets. There are people saying they will continue to wear a mask, not because they are worried about it, but because they don't want to be seen as either an anti masker or republican. An actual opportunity to accept an improvement and a move back to normality and it is met with "no thanks, I'd rather make sure you definitely know I'm not one of them". A fuckin competition for moral righteousness over a mask.
It does go some way to explaining why the Slavitt guy in the video astfgyl just posted was hedging so much in his response to Cuomo; the citizens are headcases. If the CDC come out with too strong of a "If you're vaccinated, you can do what you want!" then the (very large and nourished quite substantially by people like astgyl constantly referring to the vaccine as a "gene therapy" experiment) anti-vax movement will start spreading it out that the US citizenry is being held to ransom by the CDC and the pharmaceutical companies. Right, so can't push too hard on that persuader, because too many will interpret the carrot as a baton. So, then what? Well, let's at least tell them that vaccinated people don't need to wear their mask anymore. Oh, no, shit, we've upset the headcases on the other side now!
Just everyone calm down like.
It is fascinating how these things get tied, in a very polarising way, to people's politics. I know it works for almost anything and not just these things in this instance, but watching the totem be built to either side and filled with its own signifiers is bizarre.
Going outside of any debate on masks and vaccines themselves, look at how they have become the flag to wave to show which side you support, in the US especially. In the eyes of the more extreme people, you cannot be Republican and get a vaccine, or you cannot be Democratic and go unmasked.
I know it is up for a deeper analysis than these few posts too, and the effects are wider socially than just how the virus is spread, but it is still interesting to see. I just can't think too hard about it at the minute because I am already badly procrastinating work and an assignment due for a course :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2021, 09:28:34 AM
It does go some way to explaining why the Slavitt guy in the video astfgyl just posted was hedging so much in his response to Cuomo; the citizens are headcases. If the CDC come out with too strong of a "If you're vaccinated, you can do what you want!" then the (very large and nourished quite substantially by people like astgyl constantly referring to the vaccine as a "gene therapy" experiment) anti-vax movement will start spreading it out that the US citizenry is being held to ransom by the CDC and the pharmaceutical companies. Right, so can't push too hard on that persuader, because too many will interpret the carrot as a baton. So, then what? Well, let's at least tell them that vaccinated people don't need to wear their mask anymore. Oh, no, shit, we've upset the headcases on the other side now!
Just everyone calm down like.
I'm pro vaccine in general, just not this one. Saying that, I wouldn't tell anyone not to get it either. It should be their own choice and coercion is out of order when it comes to medical treatment. I had the psychiatrist trying to coerce me into taking antidepressants back in the day the fucking prick and this shit is like that on steroids.
What I see in that video is a sort of controlled opposition. We can debate how to get the thing and why we should all do so, but not the thing itself. Oh no that is right off the table. Reminds me of the chomsky quote about giving the impression of debate by allowing lively debate within a very narrow spectrum. Those who feel as I do are entitled to give it a miss and as long as I am left alone to do so, I have no issue with the existence of the still in trial gene therapies or indeed any other types. As long as it isn't mandatory, the companies can have all the willing customers they like. I don't foresee a situation where I will suddenly start trusting the politicians or the pharma companies or indeed the media no matter how it's framed.
Sure look at the huge media coverage of the massive march in London last weekend if you think the media cover the news rather than push agendas. That's right, there was no coverage here or in the UK, but sky news Australia and RT covered it. Estimated half million people at it. Well the estimates were higher (0.7 - 1 million) so I'm playing it safe because the anti lockdown crowd are not immune to talking shit either but the pictures and videos show the size of the crowd and it is amazing. Let's wait 2 weeks to see if it is a super spreader event (it won't be).
Look at the India stories. Things are so bad that the media had to use images from last year's gas leak to frighten us and yet won't report the actual news. It would have worked years ago but there are too many amateur sleuths these days putting their own work in.
I watched that video 3 times and I stand by my original comments on it.
See the uk now wants to stop the within 28 days death counting because they think it gives an inaccurate picture of the efficacy of the jabs. Well no shit! Of course that wasn't a problem when trying to big up the situation to get folks to take the thing. It was fine to distort it to hell then.
So many wrong things. I haven't even scratched the surface really. So when proven liars want me to get jabbed with something only authorized for emergency use and certainly still in trial stage to get back my freedom which was wrongly taken away, I say go fuck and I am out. There hasn't even been studies on drug interactions done yet. Well they're ongoing now in the unwitting general population. Sure why doesn't the news tell us this, or anyone else as part of informed consent?
https://twitter.com/pedromics/status/1387882966290997254/photo/1
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2021, 11:31:44 PM
https://twitter.com/pedromics/status/1387882966290997254/photo/1
Very clever and yet it has completely sidestepped all of the reasons I have given for being skeptical. There are of course the 5G crowd, but they are as bad as the 7 billion vaccinations lobby so can be safely disregarded by the sane.
Does anyone reckon the flu vaccine will be in demand this year, now that it has disappeared or will it just be the new stuff?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2021, 11:31:44 PM
https://twitter.com/pedromics/status/1387882966290997254/photo/1
Notice anything here?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1387836517259694080/photo/3
For those who don't want to look, the cdc has advised cycle thresholds of 28 or less to determine breakthrough infections after vaccination. Amazing how the logic can be applied when it suits!
By the way, using that threshold for determining cases all along would have resulted in a roughly 80% reduction in published case numbers, but possibly even more.
Nothing to see here, it's all above board!! :laugh:
You don't need to be one of the lads in your quoted tweet to get the smell of shit off this farce
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/downloads/Information-for-laboratories-COVID-vaccine-breakthrough-case-investigation.pdf
QuoteSome COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases will have SARS-CoV-2 sequencing performed at a clinical, public health, or commercial reference laboratory.
QuoteClinical specimens for sequencing should have an RT-PCR Ct value ≤28.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 30, 2021, 03:45:33 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/downloads/Information-for-laboratories-COVID-vaccine-breakthrough-case-investigation.pdf
QuoteSome COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases will have SARS-CoV-2 sequencing performed at a clinical, public health, or commercial reference laboratory.
QuoteClinical specimens for sequencing should have an RT-PCR Ct value ≤28.
Very good! Well spotted.
Why do they only want to sequence specimens obtained at ct28 or less? Is it because they don't expect to find anything worth working on at the higher values?
It's the same old lark as the WHO recommending the same lower values on the 20th of January, despite the issues with high values being well known long before then.
It's the same as the uk changing the way the deaths are counted.
All the things that are now suddenly being done and which would have painted a far different picture of the last year are okay to do now that there's a shot for it. Such serendipity! it would nearly make a believer of me
What if this was all really a ploy to convince people how good having a second monitor for your pc is. Surely there's a larger percentage of people using two monitors at home now than in 2019. Big monitor is at it again
:laugh: Ah heer
Quote from: ochoill on May 01, 2021, 02:40:50 AM
What if this was all really a ploy to convince people how good having a second monitor for your pc is. Surely there's a larger percentage of people using two monitors at home now than in 2019. Big monitor is at it again
It's the monitor lizards
Here's a monitor lizard right now to explain a few things to us all....
https://twitter.com/i/status/1388142787703578624
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah right Leo, thanks for the bonus. I'm going off now to find someone/anyone vaccinated so I can sit in their house with no mask on. This has gone beyond absurd when the whole country has been doing what they like since at least February. Giving people a bonus of what they are doing only the bonus is more restrictive than the reality.
Haha, that is amazing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXw7LYWNi5E
Sorry, didn't register this reply:
Quote from: astfgyl on April 30, 2021, 06:40:26 PMVery good! Well spotted.
Why do they only want to sequence specimens obtained at ct28 or less? Is it because they don't expect to find anything worth working on at the higher values?
I would imagine it's because they're looking for variants that may be vaccine resistant and they want to be sure that they have fully intact specimens in order to render reliable and reproducible sequences. With higher cycle values, there is a risk of fragments of the virus being detected which would be less reliable for sequencing, but could easily, at the same time, be evidence of recent infection. So, if your strategy is erring on the side of caution, then you'd make sure you use high cycle rates for tracking the spread of a viral disease but lower cycle rates when you want to be sure you're accurately identifying and tracking any virulent mutations in the virus.
I see that in the US now - despite the recent silly sideshow of people trying to shoehorn a vaccination strategy into a question of individual rights and liberties - that the problem is rapidly becoming one of not enough take-up rather than not enough access.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 03, 2021, 05:15:16 PM
Sorry, didn't register this reply:
Quote from: astfgyl on April 30, 2021, 06:40:26 PMVery good! Well spotted.
Why do they only want to sequence specimens obtained at ct28 or less? Is it because they don't expect to find anything worth working on at the higher values?
I would imagine it's because they're looking for variants that may be vaccine resistant and they want to be sure that they have fully intact specimens in order to render reliable and reproducible sequences. With higher cycle values, there is a risk of fragments of the virus being detected which would be less reliable for sequencing, but could easily, at the same time, be evidence of recent infection. So, if your strategy is erring on the side of caution, then you'd make sure you use high cycle rates for tracking the spread of a viral disease but lower cycle rates when you want to be sure you're accurately identifying and tracking any virulent mutations in the virus.
I see that in the US now - despite the recent silly sideshow of people trying to shoehorn a vaccination strategy into a question of individual rights and liberties - that the problem is rapidly becoming one of not enough take-up rather than not enough access.
Okay, that all sounds reasonable enough, and in a way agrees with what I was querying. I think after over a year now though we could all throw caution to the wind a bit and get back living though and maybe the rapid antigen testing is overdue to end the cycle threshold argument for good. We can surely manage our own levels of risk by now but I won't knock the initial approach of overly sensitive testing and unjustified lockdowns. It seemed prudent at the time and although in hindsight it hasn't worked, I was all for it myself at the start.
regarding the vaccine/personal freedom debate, the easy way to fix that is to stop the coercion, have the product there for all who wish to avail of it and never mix politics with public health again. A fine example of this is to look at how many red vs blue states have lifted mandates. Playing politics with health no matter what either side say they are doing it.
Edit: In a lot of ways I could be a bit more moderate myself with a lot of this. It has gone into silly stuff from every angle and a moderate viewpoint is surely what is needed.
Edit 2: Also in the spirit of scientific endeavour and following the science we all need to acknowledge that there is plenty of science still to come with this thing before we decide if vaccines are the answer to the current problem. An example here https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/05/01/major-study-finds-abundance-of-patients-admitted-to-hospital-with-covid-within-seven-days-of-vaccination/ not confirmed but worth considering and maybe why some advise that vaccinating during high prevalence is not the way to go.
Also this is worth a look, regarding the spike protein mimicked by some of the vaccines and why there might be adverse reactions to it. Again not definitive but worth thinking about sometime before we indiscriminately vaccinate everyone... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252960v1.full This suggests that the entire premise of the vaccinations may be misguided. And I stress that it's not definitive but that's the whole point with following the science. If things were done correctly we would still be striving for a vaccine by all means but the EUA would not be granted with such low levels of research into mid and long term effects..
Quote from: astfgyl on May 03, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Also this is worth a look, regarding the spike protein mimicked by some of the vaccines and why there might be adverse reactions to it. Again not definitive but worth thinking about sometime before we indiscriminately vaccinate everyone... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252960v1.full This suggests that the entire premise of the vaccinations may be misguided. And I stress that it's not definitive but that's the whole point with following the science. If things were done correctly we would still be striving for a vaccine by all means but the EUA would not be granted with such low levels of research into mid and long term effects..
The mRNA vaccine mimicks a part of the spike protein precisely in order to target it, and one of the intro conclusions of that medrxiv preprint is that vaccines targeting the spike protein would be of therapeutic benefit. Am I to guess that some blogger picked it up totally wrong and communicated a pro-vaccine conclusion as a doubt-sowing distortion?
QuoteWe conclude that the spike protein may have pathological effects directly, without being taken up by cells. This provides further evidence that targeting it directly, whether via vaccines or antibodies, is likely to be of therapeutic benefit.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 03, 2021, 09:41:01 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on May 03, 2021, 07:37:04 PM
Also this is worth a look, regarding the spike protein mimicked by some of the vaccines and why there might be adverse reactions to it. Again not definitive but worth thinking about sometime before we indiscriminately vaccinate everyone... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252960v1.full This suggests that the entire premise of the vaccinations may be misguided. And I stress that it's not definitive but that's the whole point with following the science. If things were done correctly we would still be striving for a vaccine by all means but the EUA would not be granted with such low levels of research into mid and long term effects..
The mRNA vaccine mimicks a part of the spike protein precisely in order to target it, and one of the intro conclusions of that medrxiv preprint is that vaccines targeting the spike protein would be of therapeutic benefit. Am I to guess that some blogger picked it up totally wrong and communicated a pro-vaccine conclusion as a doubt-sowing distortion?
QuoteWe conclude that the spike protein may have pathological effects directly, without being taken up by cells. This provides further evidence that targeting it directly, whether via vaccines or antibodies, is likely to be of therapeutic benefit.
You are meant to take it to mean that the research into both the virus itself and its mode of transmission is still ongoing and how it replicates in the body and which of the proteins are the important ones in terms of pathogenicity is all still the subject of investigation and yet somehow that has all translated into the idea of giving 7 billion people a vaccine, based on what is known so far. I said it wasn't definitive and that is the point. It could be taken as meaning yes the right thing is to use the mRNA as it is, or it could mean that it maybe needs to be adjusted to a target a different sequence to be perfected, that the idea is sound but needs work. I could surely find bloggers and likely even research to say that it is either the best thing ever or completely misguided. Perhaps the mimicking of the spike protein in itself is enough to elicit a vascular response which is undesirable or perhaps it doesn't do that at all or perhaps looking at it as a respiratory pathogen in the first instance is wrong too and the respiratory effects which don't occur in many many of those infected are a symptom of some other function of the virus. There is research from Italy which suggests that it replicates in bacteria, which would lead to a whole new branch of research into both therapeutics and preventatives and whether it's right or wrong, it does show that the research is ongoing and nowhere near the science being settled or anything of the sort. Yet I've had it beaten into my head to follow the science for the last 14 months and the world shut down by following the science, and we will sure as fuck be following the science when the avalanche of cancer cases comes to the fore in the next few years, not to mention how many other undiagnosed conditions are out there waiting to come next. So regardless of how it is reported, the fact that the studies are still being done shows how little is actually known along with how much is known. Yet here we are.... follow the science!!!
Here's another link to a bit of study that says we are only beginning to understand the mechanics of the thing we already have a vaccine for... https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/
I have been confirming some other things over the last few days too, regarding case counts in countries with little to no cases and what happened in them after the rollout began. Coincidences abound!! I'll get back to that later though.
Edit: Opened up twitter to find this on the side: https://twitter.com/i/events/1389367239225208835
Fact checkers have checked and... yeah run a mile from the ministry of truth. Wow, somebody
really wants me to get injected with this thing. It's worth noting that the payouts over the swine flu shot (pandemrix) were being settled out of court by the Irish government in 2020 after being administered in 2009. Check out some of the headlines and advice from the time to see how much we were all assured it was perfectly safe and look at the people advocating for it back then. History repeating itself only bigger and better this time. The fact that is there on the side of twitter when I open it shows that maybe I'm not the only one suffering from a bit of hesitancy.
I see the mutant two headed Indian variant has hit the US already... :laugh:
:-\
Up next is the climate crisis, mark my words.
Oh how handy that we have discovered the idea of lockdowns... that will surely come in handy in a climate crisis. Fact checkers have assured me that having my life micromanaged by an incompetent government is the best way out of a climate crisis. For the good of us all we need our every move and thought tracked!
Ok, here is a fucking beauty..
Follow the science!! https://twitter.com/AP/status/1388161501769486337
The preceding link has been fact checked by the Associated Press.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 04, 2021, 08:36:15 AMSo regardless of how it is reported, the fact that the studies are still being done shows how little is actually known along with how much is known. Yet here we are.... follow the science!!!
No idea what the cancer bit is about there, but studies are ongoing about all sorts of things that we nevertheless treat for. "Follow the science" doesn't mean "wait until science is finished", cos, eh, such a point will never be reached. Any logic stating that because studies are still ongoing we shouldn't be vaccinating is categorically flawed, especially if the only studies being produced as evidence of ongoing research merely reinforce both what is already known and how best to target it.
The cancer comment was in reference to the forthcoming avalanche of untreated and undiagnosed cancers which will be coming as a direct consequence of the absolutely fucking ridiculous overreaction to covid.
And this sentence.... ""Follow the science" doesn't mean "wait until science is finished", cos, eh, such a point will never be reached" is exactly the point I have been making.
So imagine a scenario where someone is at risk of developing severe disease from SC2 infection and the good doctor says "well there is an experimental treatment available under an emergency use authorisation which I could give you. There are some risks involved (proceeds to rattle off likelihoods of bad things happening vs likelihood of good things happening) but I feel they are minimal and should be outweighed by the benefits. Either way it's up to yourself" The patient then proceeds to exercise informed consent and the world is a better place.
Instead we have mass vaccination centres set up immediately and talk of how to mandate the fucking thing with less than 12 months of actual experience with what the thing does, whether it actually works and whether there will be undesirable side effects and everybody is told "the cavalry is coming" and lo and behold the next thing is the cavalry will be coming for the young children as well and everyone else as soon as possible.
Fucking upside down world. Follow the science by all means but not this fucking shite. And the best of it all is that it still won't get anyone their freedom back, because covid 21 will need to be dealt with first, through the booster shots which have already been ordered while the fake debate about whether they will be needed rages on in the media. I actually can't believe everyone hasn't seen this for the sham it is yet.
Edit: Father in law just called in, to goad me over the situation in India and to tell me how it shows I've been wrong all along and now won't I follow the science and listen to the experts' advice... So I asked him why he was here sitting in my kitchen instead of following the advice and why was he high fiving me and drinking cans with me for the last 12 months if he was following the experts and heeding the advice, and then I asked him when was the last time he washed his hands because they look filthy. So he left in a huff calling me a conspiracy theorist. :laugh: I shouldn't have enjoyed it so much but I did. Fucking amazes me how many people think that others should follow the advice while picking and choosing which bits suit themselves, and this notion that it can only be caught from strangers is the funniest of all. Such dissonance.
What has any of that got to do with the reasoning you put forward, which basically reduced to saying that the vaccination couldn't be roll-out ready yet because study of the virus is still ongoing? That is not what following the science implies at all. A big hint is when the people doing the ongoing science conclude that vaccinations of the kind available is a good strategy.
What part of everything going on that is genuinely sham might be slightly more limpid if those shouting "Sham!" loudest didn't give the appearance of throwing anything and everything at the COVID response fan.
The vaccination shouldn't be roll out ready because the study of the vaccine is still ongoing. And it deserves to have every bit of shit thrown at it because the whole discourse has been shit from day one. Is it fair to say there have been deaths from the vaccines? Did that happen in the initial trials? No it didn't but it has happened since, and although it is very minimal amount of incidents, it didn't show in the initial phase but is happening now because the initial study group was so focused (under 55, no conditions and not on any medication) vs the indiscriminate jabbing going on now. It should be available for anyone who wants to take it based on their own perceived level of risk, no more, no less. Like I don't think an individual scientist working on a vaccine is doing anything other than trying to come up with something that works. It's their industry, it would be better for business if it did work. Even better again if it works better than the other products, so the incentive to do good is certainly there. The truth is though, that we simply don't know if it will work but we are being sold the idea as the saviour of mankind and the key to unlocking our freedom. That is a sham.
Where are all the people dropping dead in the streets, like we got shown from China? Did they have some sort of worse strain that didn't reach everywhere else? How did China declare an end to their situation with no vaccine? How did they have that unreal new year party in Wuhan without the vaccine? Where did the isolate that the vaccines are based on come from? (hint, there wasn't one, strictly speaking) Maybe a bit of patience would result in a far more effective vaccine based on what is known since the manufacture began last year? Have to keep saying I'm not against it in principle, but just because I don't eat human doesn't make me a vegetarian either.
Edit, sick of making new posts: More tomfoolery.. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_2121 The silly part is that this system has been in the pipeline for years, but is being presented as the solution to SC2 as if it is a novel idea for a novel virus. Sure when people were banging on about immunity passports and coerced or forced vaccinations last year, they were called conspiracy theorists. The maddest part of that is that as each thing these crazy cunts predicted comes true, people (including me) kinda fob it off as coincidence. How right do they have to be before they are right? I'm more in the death by 1000 cuts camp personally because of the logistical problems involved, but it is getting spooky how much of say Alex Jones' schtick is getting realistic. Well I haven't watched him in at least 10 years but he was saying all this shite then so I presume he still is.
Fuck it, I'm on repeat. Taking at least a week off this thread unless I get called out.
As I said before, for folks like you and Alex Jones, "they" are damned if they do and damned if they don't. When paltry added freedoms are announced for vaccinated people, or when the vaccinated are recommended to keep wearing masks, you go at "them" for lying that the vaccine would be a ticket for freedom. When broad allowances are suggested, such as easing restrictions on international travel for the vaccinated, you go at "them" for coercion and holding people to ransom. It's simply an absolutely undiscerning contrarian position, over-flowing with distortion, bias, surface readings, and total paranoia. Alex Jones indeed.
Well I did say unless I got called out....
I have no time for AJ. I watched him when he seemed mildly interesting years ago and soon got bored with it.
So let me address these one by one:
"When paltry added freedoms are announced for vaccinated people, or when the vaccinated are recommended to keep wearing masks, you go at "them" for lying that the vaccine would be a ticket for freedom."
Yes that is known as lies, telling people to take a certain product to regain the freedom they once had and then not giving it to them. No one should be vaccinated for anything other than health benefits anyway and I think any sane person would agree. In fact tying vaccination or lack of it to any definition of freedom is simply wrong.
"When broad allowances are suggested, such as easing restrictions on international travel for the vaccinated, you go at "them" for coercion and holding people to ransom."
You have conveniently skipped over the part where these health passports have been in the works for years and have nothing to do with SC2. They were happening anyway and the roadmap is published on the EU website since late 2017 or early 2018. Many countries have requirements for certain shots before entry, that is nothing new, but this version is for within the EU and if I remember correctly, freedom of movement is one of the main pillars of EU membership or so my Polish friends tell me and some of the Irish living and working in the likes of France and Spain would say the same. We either are in the EU or not, and if we are it is supposed to be freedom of movement between member states is it not? So requiring vaccination status is a form of coercion. There is the PCR alternative, but it's prohibitively expensive for say a family of 4 when compared to free jabs.
So you are trying to create a contrast between the two positions I've taken there which doesn't exist and for a fella who has spoken here of his studies on confirmation bias, you suffer badly from it yourself, using the mere mention of Alex Jones' name to attempt to discredit the point I was making in the last paragraph, which was that what seemed like the ramblings of a madman (or someone simply playing to a certain crowd more like) a decade ago is now being accepted as all grand and above board. Do you agree or disagree with the point I was making?
"It's simply an absolutely undiscerning contrarian position, over-flowing with distortion, bias, surface readings, and total paranoia"
It's undiscerning because there are so many ways to attack the amount of bullshit tied to this whole experience (lockdowns, masks, social distancing, PCR, case counts, asymptomatic spread, silencing of dissent, loss of freedom, government overreach, police state tactics, fuck the list goes on and on). It's contrarian because I can see how wrong it all is. It's not particularly distorted because see the last 2 sentences. Surface readings because there are only so many hours in a day. Lastly, it isn't total paranoia when it all turns out to be true, bringing it back to the Alex Jones comment and I'm sure if I went back in this very thread I would find myself predicting all of these very predictable things.
I hope this addresses your rather shittily made point and helps you to overcome your own obvious confirmation bias. Thinking there is nothing to see here is how we have ended up where we are at right now. How much will have to come true before even you start to think it might all be a bit dicey?
Edit: I can't resist... https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19vaccine/92413 :P
Can't resist posting an article saying that the J&J and possibly AstraZeneca vaccines should be placed on pause - or at the very least limited to certain demographics - as a result of anomalous side-effects, but notably saying that such a pause should be
in favour of one of the mRNA vaccines which you claim, contra the author's views, aren't even vaccines?
This is what I mean by contrarian surface-reading; everything with an element of something that seems to fit with the whole police state, new world order schtick is flung out as proof, regardless of what the actual bottom line of the piece is. So a study of ongoing research into the virus is proof that we don't know enough to be vaccinating, even though the authors conclude that their study shows spike protein targeting therapeutics will be of benefit. And an op-ed from a health care specialist advising a pause on the J&J vaccine is proof that we shouldn't be gung-ho vaccinating, even though his bottom line is simply that we should be favouring the other vaccine that doesn't cause the unwanted side-effect.
From your last link:
QuoteA small faction of people vigorously opposed to all vaccination have done damage in several ways. First, they have discouraged individuals from getting necessary childhood immunization. Second, they have cast aspersions around the mRNA vaccines, which offer amazing efficacy.
Any genuine arguments, and there are many, get lost in the head-long rush to use everything as an argument, even things which patently aren't solid arguments or are even fundamentally arguments against the position you're trying to shoe horn them into. That is where discernment is needed.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 04, 2021, 10:09:48 PM
Can't resist posting an article saying that the J&J and possibly AstraZeneca vaccines should be placed on pause - or at the very least limited to certain demographics - as a result of anomalous side-effects, but notably saying that such a pause should be in favour of one of the mRNA vaccines which you claim, contra the author's views, aren't even vaccines?
This is what I mean by contrarian surface-reading; everything with an element of something that seems to fit with the whole police state, new world order schtick is flung out as proof, regardless of what the actual bottom line of the piece is. So a study of ongoing research into the virus is proof that we don't know enough to be vaccinating, even though the authors conclude that their study shows spike protein targeting therapeutics will be of benefit. And an op-ed from a health care specialist advising a pause on the J&J vaccine is proof that we shouldn't be gung-ho vaccinating, even though his bottom line is simply that we should be favouring the other vaccine that doesn't cause the unwanted side-effect.
From your last link:
QuoteA small faction of people vigorously opposed to all vaccination have done damage in several ways. First, they have discouraged individuals from getting necessary childhood immunization. Second, they have cast aspersions around the mRNA vaccines, which offer amazing efficacy.
Any genuine arguments, and there are many, get lost in the head-long rush to use everything as an argument, even things which patently aren't solid arguments or are even fundamentally arguments against the position you're trying to shoe horn them into. That is where discernment is needed.
Oh be the lord jaysus. You are banging on to me here about surface reading and you are after taking that from the obvious joke I was making in reference to the to and fro we were having and trying to keep it all in good nature by quoting that last thing. I'm sorry you missed it but here's the headline and I thought that the tongue sticking out emoji might give the idea that it was a joke I was making in the spirit of the stuff we were saying about following the science....
..... "COVID Vax Opponents and Rigid Proponents...Are Both Anti-Science?" ..... :P
Get it now? I do have a sense of humour about it all still but it's hard to get the really dry stuff going in text.
Edit: I didn't read the article either, I just saw the headline. I dunno what it says at all beyond the headline but from the bit you quoted there it sounds like I might agree with the general tone of it. I think anti vaxxers are being silly myself. I wouldn't like to be associating with those lads either but I can see how they would end up that way and there is even the argument to be made that it is because of the success of vaccines over the years that the anti vaxxers get to be an actual thing like a movement of some sort, my argument here being that of course they wouldn't get the diseases because of all the other folks who did take vaccines in their stead thus proving they never needed those vaccines, and then that's of course countered by the argument that if they were never mandated or required then there wouldn't be such an anti movement because they would be railing against the concept of free choice. I have many thoughts that are pro vaccination and if these ones prove to be safe and effective then that is great news. In the meantime, we need to call a spade a spade on how rushed and forced this one is. Go on, argue that it isn't rushed and forced and then argue it out in your head about if you'd want your kids to be forced to get it as soon as possible and that should tell you a lot about how safe you personally think it is. Then you can hop off it by informed consent. Sure get 2 brands altogether it might be twice as good. Soon as I deem it safe I'll surely have to have it if I'm going to need it to as much as buy a loaf of bread and that's sounding less and less ridiculous by the day, too.
Best of luck to anyone who thinks it's all the finest but the gut feeling should be kicking in strong for loads by now. I don't give a fuck which brand of the shit it is, none of em have been studied for any length of time and I haven't been enrolled for any test or been offered money for it, so I get to be in the control group, which supposedly also a risk, because let's face it if I don't get the covid vaccine I could die of anything at all at any time and that isn't the level of risk I'm prepared to accept.
Can I have the week off now?
I agree that the rigid proponents are anti-scientific in their approach, and believe it or not, in other online and real life incarnations, where I'm surrounded by such people, my voice is very different on the subject. Fact still remains that you're calling on scientists, once seriously, once in jest, but ignoring what they're actually saying and all of the scientific weight they put behind that. Why?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 04, 2021, 10:28:56 PM
I agree that the rigid proponents are anti-scientific in their approach, and believe it or not, in other online and real life incarnations, where I'm surrounded by such people, my voice is very different on the subject. Fact still remains that you're calling on scientists, once seriously, once in jest, but ignoring what they're actually saying and all of the scientific weight they put behind that. Why?
I was after editing in the response to this in the last reply without even being asked so here is the copy:
QuoteEdit: I didn't read the article either, I just saw the headline. I dunno what it says at all beyond the headline but from the bit you quoted there it sounds like I might agree with the general tone of it. I think anti vaxxers are being silly myself. I wouldn't like to be associating with those lads either but I can see how they would end up that way and there is even the argument to be made that it is because of the success of vaccines over the years that the anti vaxxers get to be an actual thing like a movement of some sort, my argument here being that of course they wouldn't get the diseases because of all the other folks who did take vaccines in their stead thus proving they never needed those vaccines, and then that's of course countered by the argument that if they were never mandated or required then there wouldn't be such an anti movement because they would be railing against the concept of free choice. I have many thoughts that are pro vaccination and if these ones prove to be safe and effective then that is great news. In the meantime, we need to call a spade a spade on how rushed and forced this one is. Go on, argue that it isn't rushed and forced and then argue it out in your head about if you'd want your kids to be forced to get it as soon as possible and that should tell you a lot about how safe you personally think it is. Then you can hop off it by informed consent. Sure get 2 brands altogether it might be twice as good. Soon as I deem it safe I'll surely have to have it if I'm going to need it to as much as buy a loaf of bread and that's sounding less and less ridiculous by the day, too.
Best of luck to anyone who thinks it's all the finest but the gut feeling should be kicking in strong for loads by now. I don't give a fuck which brand of the shit it is, none of em have been studied for any length of time and I haven't been enrolled for any test or been offered money for it, so I get to be in the control group, which supposedly also a risk, because let's face it if I don't get the covid vaccine I could die of anything at all at any time and that isn't the level of risk I'm prepared to accept.
Can I have the week off now?
QuoteFact still remains that you're calling on scientists, once seriously, once in jest, but ignoring what they're actually saying and all of the scientific weight they put behind that. Why?
Yes, and all of the time banging on about how the science is far from settled outside of the political spectrum. Does my point not prove itself as you make it? I can conjure up people with letters after their names all day long at this stage and no matter what I want them to say I will find one who says it. My own experience of being alive the last year tells me that the promised apocalypse is on hold in Ireland for the moment and the rest I dunno it defies belief really
State of alarm suspended here in Spain. People talking like 'it's all over'. But it's not. How does that work? Can I now take off my mask? Nope. Is it really all over now? Is that it? Nope, but yes it's all over. Very confusing.
All the researching, the soul searching, the gut feelings, the suspicions, all the it doesn't add up etc etc etc...........
The whole fucking thing boils down to one thing really. Would the (worldwide) health service cope with a rampant spread of Covid? The answer is No. In ordinary time health services are stretched. An unexpected flu where a relatively small number of extra ICU beds are required cripples the whole shebang. Thats the long and short of it. The reason for lockdowns and restrictions. The alternative was to arrange big temporary palliative care dying field hospitals, and let the 99% who it doesn't kill get on with normal life.
In the modern age, where life is sacrosanct, no one was gonna get away with that.
Got the first jab today. They are pure rapid getting you in and out here in Madrid, surprising!
I haven't read this yet, but it's being shared and commented all over my Twitter network, so it's apparently discussion worthy at least:
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
There's nothing more dangerous than an outdoor cinema https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/people/arid-40292990.html
These rotten pig idiots are nowhere to be seen unless you've 4 euro of weed or operating an outdoor Cinema.
Almost half the classes have been sent home in the last week, due to Eid celebrations. The Muslims living it up, partying like it's 1499.
In relation to the news yesterday and today of the gradual reopening of events, gigs and matches later in the summer, Varadkar said this morning:
"The Tánaiste has said no vaccination will be necessary to go to a club match or a gig once these restrictions are lifted.
He said safety will be based on standard public health precautions and limiting numbers."
Don't worry Astfgyl, it doesn't seem like we'll end up in the forced vaccination/police state hell you predicted.
Quote from: Nazgûl on May 28, 2021, 08:59:14 AM
In relation to the news yesterday and today of the gradual reopening of events, gigs and matches later in the summer, Varadkar said this morning:
"The Tánaiste has said no vaccination will be necessary to go to a club match or a gig once these restrictions are lifted.
He said safety will be based on standard public health precautions and limiting numbers."
Don't worry Astfgyl, it doesn't seem like we'll end up in the forced vaccination/police state hell you predicted.
I wish I shared your faith and optimism.
I'm generally staying out of this thread from now on, but let me remind you the initial social contract we engaged in was three weeks to flatten the curve, to protect the health service. Varadkar and pals have said a lot of shit over the last year, only then to say it's the fault of the virus that they have sadly had to break their word over and over. We will get there sooner or later (forced/coerced unnecessary jabs and/or digital identification to prove we've had it) but it's a case of boiling the frog so it must be done slowly. The EU has the roadmap printed on their website since 2018 for vx passports, so covid or no covid that's happening, be it the covid jab, the flu jab or whatever. That's not a wild theory either it's just what's coming down the line. If there weren't certain things that must be done, targets that must be met etc, we would have been out of this and back to normal last summer, so I will take what Leo the Leak says with a pinch of salt.
Why are the government looking to extend the emergency powers? Why was it introduced into the Seanad to avoid parliamentary scrutiny? Why are we all wearing masks when it's entirely obvious at this stage that it is seasonal? The targets must be met, although I haven't a clue what they are. I wouldn't mind being wrong either, I'd be happy if I was but I've seen nothing so far to change my mind about any of what I envision coming down the line. And that shit about limiting numbers is proper tripe as well, ass are the restrictions on pubs/dining etc. Go on google and look at places that have had full stadiums and nightclubs and everything else and fuck all happened. If this were all above board, the cunts would just call it over now and be done with it until winter when the season kicks back in for respiratory infections. Still waiting to see the plan to sort out this health service that we are all supposed to be protecting as well.
Ah fuck it, see why I want to stay out of this thread...
Covid-19: virus :-: main ingredient: fear
First phase of my participation in the experimental gene therapy drive done.
Same, got the first jab earlier. I presume the 5G connects automatically with the second shot?
Quote from: Carnage on June 01, 2021, 05:14:36 PM
Same, got the first jab earlier. I presume the 5G connects automatically with the second shot?
Did you not get your free iPhone?
Pfft! Apple...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2Z6r88XMAg7jZQ?format=jpg&name=small)
Just ribbing lads. :P
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated
Stumbled upon the above while following up a story from here in Bordeaux where anti-vaxxers have been making vaccination appointments under false names just to disrupt the service, but also thereby blocking out people who could otherwise have taken the doses. Sound.
That's cunty alright. I'm getting vaccinated for purely selfish reasons, yo hit Cuba this summer. If you don't want to take it grand, but don't be bolloxing up everyone else's jollies ye lispy frog pricks.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 03, 2021, 12:18:42 PM
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated
Stumbled upon the above while following up a story from here in Bordeaux where anti-vaxxers have been making vaccination appointments under false names just to disrupt the service, but also thereby blocking out people who could otherwise have taken the doses. Sound.
That whole thing about the vaccinated people making the unvaccinated ill is a load of shite anyway. Freedom of choice is the issue here and now those who are supposedly advocating for that freedom are attempting to take it away from others which is ironic at best. There are lots of people who want it for various reasons and that choice should be entirely theirs. Funnily enough though I saw a report lately saying spike proteins cannot be shed by people who have taken the shot but then read this: https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/mrna-technology-pioneer-says-covid-19-vaccinated-people-can-shed-spike-protein-twitter-says-delete-this-1809062-2021-05-31. Now my own thinking is that nothing happens because I have been around many many folks who've had it but it's another example of the confusion out there which plays into the hands of bullshitters on both sides of the fence. Anti-mask is silly as well. People should be allowed wear a mask if they like and if one doesn't wish to wear one then that should also be a free choice, as the science is so thin on it.
Anyone seen the Fauci emails that were released under FOI? Didn't read them myself but I see they are causing a bit of a stir around lockdowns and masks. Also does anyone else find it surprising that the lab-leak theory has come back in to play when it was written off as a mere conspiracy theory last year? I don't know what prompted the change of heart but it's strange to see it reappear and seems kind of needless at this stage to the extent that the cynic in me says there is some reason or other for it that hasn't become apparent as of yet. Several newspapers have actually rewritten their own history on it and went back and changed their headline from last year when they called it out as a baseless conspiracy theory. Really odd.
:laugh:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/trinity-college-protesters-storm-gate-20728778
Pity they didn't get their hands on the sly prick.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1401279861155676162
Getting there slowly but surely.
Haha! In fairness, that's a well-earned point for the "impending police-state" camp, even if, based on previous excessive garda "interactions" going back to, say, Reclaim, I think it's more a case of political incompetency followed by a struggle for containment. Though maybe that's what all police-states boil down to at base!
Getting me second jab next Saturday:)
Still have to wear the mask which confuses me but I can, in theory, escape from the Spanish summer oven.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 06, 2021, 12:00:09 PM
... I think it's more a case of political incompetency followed by a struggle for containment. Though maybe that's what all police-states boil down to at base!
This is exactly what that is. Shit will reopen, this kind of thing will not be necessary, end of story -- as far as I can see anyway. Unfortunately the government are hobbling to any sort of finish line in the interim, so we have this.
"Have ye'r summer outdoors", yet failing to actually facilitate that whatsoever in terms of public spaces and general organisation. This whole lockdown in this country was never anything more than the government failing to prepare or adapt accordingly to the situation. Knee jerk reaction to everything.
Anyone had any side effects from their furst jab? Had mine on Tuesday, had a headache for a day or two, then a headcold.kicked in on Friday. Fading now bar a sore throat and a cough, just wondering if anyone else has had the same.
Haven't had any shots yet but my mate had his two doses and he said he felt like shit for a day after getting his second shot, totally run down. Then grand after that, but he recommended to me to have painkillers/ibuprofen around if getting the AZ jab.
Quote from: Carnage on June 06, 2021, 08:09:27 PM
Anyone had any side effects from their furst jab? Had mine on Tuesday, had a headache for a day or two, then a headcold.kicked in on Friday. Fading now bar a sore throat and a cough, just wondering if anyone else has had the same.
Pfizer first jab did roughly the same thing to me over the last week, less of a head cold vibe for me though, no sore throat or cough, but head throbbing more or less painfully and a couple of fluey muscle-ache/stiffness days. All grand now.
Pfizer for me too. Not too bad overall TBF, and barbecue & cans yesterday probably didn't help matters either.
I had the moderna, gave me a rash on my arm for a couple of weeks. Didn't feel great the day after either, wasn't up for anything, not even the ride.
Quote from: Carnage on June 06, 2021, 08:29:34 PM
Pfizer for me too. Not too bad overall TBF, and barbecue & cans yesterday probably didn't help matters either.
I got a head cold after a BBQ last week so it could well be your culprit! You're dressed for a scorcher, drinks pile up and the alco jacket just doesn't cut it when it's 10 degrees hours later! 😊
I had my 2nd Pfizer jab yesterday and no issues whatsoever either time. I was holding off posting in case something changed today! But no, all good for a 1.5hr cycle in the heat earlier. Buddy works in the hospital and he got his months ago with no issue, but some colleagues were sufferimg for a few days after the 2nd one. Luck of the draw it seems.
Aye, we were out burning chicken at 11 pm, in shorts and T-shirts, woukdn't have helped things. It lasted for over a week so I'm guessing it was coincidence/stupidity on my part. More or less cleared up now, apart from having a fucking blocked ear.
Everyone I know that had any of them bar one was laid up after it with the symptoms you lads are describing. Also everyone I know had it bar one was the solid finest before 2 weeks had passed. The one that isn't has had a dead arm for over 2 months which could be put down to the skill or lack thereof of the person administering the jab. Make of that what you will but my feeling is that the symptoms you are experiencing are indeed due to the shots but it passes and while it can be a rough ride for some it isn't the death jab that some would like us to believe. Still exercising my right to say no while I can but that decision is in no way due to a safety issue.
Ah yeah, I'm not too bothered, it's a minor inconvenience really. I'm just surprised that it's lasted this long, a '48 hour bug' is what I was expecting.
On the plus side, there's a strong chance that you are now or in the near future, immune.
Aye, there's that. For all the good it does me. We'll still be stuck in masks for the forseeable future.
Yeah unfortunately we will, but like all things it will run its' course one way or the other. Even the Black Death fizzled out after a time and between the vaccines and the natural run of things it surely can't have more than a year left in it. Hopefully.
Indeed. I recognise the need for them (and other safety measures) but it should be in the past by now.
I got sent home from work today, I have had a bad dose since yesterday. I'll take it, the only pain in the hole now is the pain in the arm making it hard to sleep on my preferred side.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on June 14, 2021, 07:05:35 PM
I got sent home from work today, I have had a bad dose since yesterday. I'll take it, the only pain in the hole now is the pain in the arm making it hard to sleep on my preferred side.
The slow death has begun.
https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23ImDone&src=typeahead_click
Looks like a few people aren't happy with Borris and his world leader pals, partying it up on a beach during a pandemic!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on June 14, 2021, 07:05:35 PM
I got sent home from work today, I have had a bad dose since yesterday. I'll take it, the only pain in the hole now is the pain in the arm making it hard to sleep on my preferred side.
Get well soon komrade... XXxX
.
New Zealand did it right. Jacinda Ardern did a great job and other countries should have looked at how her government did things and used it as a blueprint. They locked down hard in the early days when others were still dragging their heels, there was no messing about. Ireland made a bollocks of it in many ways, having said that I'm glad I'm not living in the U.S.
In the spirit of trying to pan for gold in a pile of shite, I like a lot of knock on effects to the pandemic.
It's great not hearing about some load of human detritus in a jungle or some load of wankers you'd leave inside a burning house to save a pig in of the many other myriads of "reality" shows. All those "talent" formatted show.
News sources flicking the bean with excitement to report on nobody's and wasting resources to talk about them. Social Distancing has done some good things.
The hugely reduced number of flights there has been a positive for the environment .
And of course with people being around each other less there is less change of transmitting all sorts of sicknesses.
I have managed to save a few bob as well.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/why-covid-19-may-now-feel-like-a-bad-cold-with-headache-runny-nose-among-most-reported-symptoms-1.6069831
What do we make of this, is it good or bad news? I can see both scenarios as valid depending on how I want to look at it. I did see one thing I simply can't agree with though but I'll stay out of that because I've been over it already. It's an interesting development if it holds true though.
And if anyone is interested, here's a bit of a read around testing from a letter published on the Journal of Infection website: https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)00265-6/fulltext
Another possibility of good news here: https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/abstract/9000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.98040.aspx
Headache, sore throat, runny nose and fever are now the top four reported symptoms, all while the more-infectious delta variant, also known as B1617, is sweeping mainly through people under 40 in the U.K.
That sounds good for people under 40, but older people can really have a shit time of it.
I'm not getting back into this too much but the same can be said for the common cold in the elderly and infirm. From theconversation.com (first search result of "can you die from common cold").
QuoteThe common cold is normally a mild illness that resolves without treatment in a few days. And because of its mild nature, most cases are self-diagnosed. However, infection with rhinovirus or one of the other viruses responsible for common cold symptoms can be serious in some people. Complications from a cold can cause serious illnesses and, yes, even death – particularly in people who have a weak immune system.
Ever wonder how many old folks you've killed with the common cold? Me neither. There's a vaccine for the at risk now so that's probably a moot point.
"Ever wonder how many old folks you've killed with the common cold?" I didn't kill any :laugh:
No seriously, I hope it is a moot point and this whole thing is coming to the end of running it's course.
I swear I didn't kill any either. I have alibis. Was only posting in here because it was something positive for a change, so fingers crossed..
Yeah man it would be great to get some positive news on it. I want to be able to party like it's 2019 again :abbath:
Partying like it's 2021
https://twitter.com/21WIRE/status/1406393405064814600
Editing this. Was pointing out Varadkar and his shit, but sure fuck it
Quote from: astfgyl on June 21, 2021, 12:24:54 AM
Partying like it's 2021
https://twitter.com/21WIRE/status/1406393405064814600
Oh Jesus. That's just thick. Do they not think people would get the message from the myriad of other ways they're being told? They money spent doing the could be put to much better use.
Did you see that regards Pub?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0620/1229297-alcohol-streets/
Quote from: livingabortion on June 21, 2021, 02:39:11 AM
Did you see that regards Pub?
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0620/1229297-alcohol-streets/
I did. Not surprising in the least as the general idea seems to stay away from anything resembling normal life for as long as possible, or at least until targets of some kind are met.
Here is one that I found particularly absurd: https://ie.jobrapido.com/jobpreview/35295317
I was in Galway over the weekend and all the seated spots outside pubs were rammed with people, plenty of gardai about too and they didn't seemed bothered with it
Made a nice change from the kip Dublin is turning into with the hordes of scrotes and not a gard to be seen
It was the same in Limerick when I was there, to be fair. No guff out of the Gardai at all, and they were knocking around. It might be a case of paper not refusing ink over any actual thing happening.
I was in Tramore as well and same story.
In Sligo town it can get quite packed in Stephen Street car park. People buy pints and hang around in the car park, and it doesn't appear the Cops are doing much about it in the way of moving people on.
Actually heading to Sligo soon enough so that's good to hear, that there is a bit of craic around. It's dead as a maggot where I am.
Is it just a Dublin thing? No bother here at all
Quote from: astfgyl on June 21, 2021, 10:46:36 PM
Actually heading to Sligo soon enough so that's good to hear, that there is a bit of craic around. It's dead as a maggot where I am.
Fair play, you're getting round a bit.
I never stopped tbh, and I never had any hassle with it either but while it's summer and the getting is good I'm trying to make the most of it and get away out of Tipp whenever I can.
Was reading this lark a minute ago https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/philippines-duterte-threatens-those-who-refuse-covid-19-vaccine-with-jail-2021-06-21. Some will agree and some will disagree with the sentiment. My main thought coming away is how far are we from the likes of this, even if only in words? It's not as impossible as I once would have thought, but I dunno it still sounds sort of unbelievable to happen here.
Fuck that's dystopian alright.
I doubt it would happen here, for one I doubt we'd have the jail space for it and people wouldn't stand for that here. There were protests against lockdown so the the idea of getting locked up for not getting the jab I don't think it would wash.
Quote from: livingabortion on June 21, 2021, 10:22:03 PM
In Sligo town it can get quite packed in Stephen Street car park. People buy pints and hang around in the car park, and it doesn't appear the Cops are doing much about it in the way of moving people on.
Ah sure, the piggies in Sligo are far too busy shop-lifting and selling info to the lads up the hill to have time to be enforcing that RUC cunt Harriss' oppression plan.
Quote from: livingabortion on June 21, 2021, 11:27:08 PM
Fuck that's dystopian alright.
I doubt it would happen here, for one I doubt we'd have the jail space for it and people wouldn't stand for that here. There were protests against lockdown so the the idea of getting locked up for not getting the jab I don't think it would wash.
I don't think it will wash even there for what it's worth. It would be unworkable and I think he is just saying it to put the shits up those on the fence but imagine it as a story you'd heard about Saddam doing it to the Kurds or Chinese doing it to Uighurs or Assad doing it to the Syrians or Mengele doing it to die Juden or whatever...
Nobody would agree.
The would be national revolts.
Here's the video https://twitter.com/husserl78/status/1407327098793037836.
It actually sounds like he's taking the piss but I don't speak the lingo so I can't make head nor tail of the inflection. The last line regarding Ivermectin is especially baffling.
Edit: Here's the new Lemsip ad... https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1407390746559320070 .... absolutely terrifying stuff from the masters of modern horror!
...and you won't believe what happens next... "Delta Plus"!
On a different note here's a fun one. The UK have passed a statutory instrument to allow quarantine exemptions for UEFA invitees. No matter which way one swings on the whole thing, that is ridiculous in the extreme and flies in the face of every bit of advice/regulation that same government gives to its' own citizens. It's either about the protection of public health or it isn't. Contradictions like this everywhere.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/731/regulation/2/made
A little funny https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/matt-hancock-affair-apologises-coronavirus_uk_60d5bb05e4b052e47500dd46
Apologises for breaking social distancing rules. I imagine that's the least of his worries
I'm planning on doing a two week tour around Ireland for the second fortnight in august if they let me in the country. Accommodation prices are fucking outrageous, especially anywhere you'd want to bring the foreign missus (sorry asgtf, Tipp town isn't on the list unless I'm short on yokes!).
Trying not to get ridden for car rental either, if anyone has any tips, they'd be much appreciated. Budget is about 4-5 grand for the whole thing, there won't be much left out of it.
If ye've a decent place in Madrid, you could try looking into a house swap with someone in Cork or Galway or anywhere that would be a good base. It could halve the amount of accommodation nights you have to fork out for, i.e. you'd only pay for a night or two if heading to Kerry, then back to base, another more local site you can day trip to, then a night or two if you want to head to Sligo, or whatever. If you've wheels in Madrid, could also be part of the swap.
Not something everyone would be into, but it's an option when you live somewhere folk might like to go to.
Yeah might be something to consider.
I have a motor but driving here is along the lines of Delhi or Tangiers...not for the faint hearted!
Not your problem though; all you need think about is whether you get a car out of the deal for buzzing round the ring of Kerry!
Pfizer first jab got. Thought I was sensible finishing drinking at 7pm yesterday. Still got a dose of the jitters. Hopefully I can avoid any side effects now.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on June 26, 2021, 03:08:39 PM
I'm planning on doing a two week tour around Ireland for the second fortnight in august if they let me in the country. Accommodation prices are fucking outrageous, especially anywhere you'd want to bring the foreign missus (sorry asgtf, Tipp town isn't on the list unless I'm short on yokes!).
Trying not to get ridden for car rental either, if anyone has any tips, they'd be much appreciated. Budget is about 4-5 grand for the whole thing, there won't be much left out of it.
I don't live in Tipp Town. It's a real shithole.
Dunno about car rental but it's hardly at 2019 prices given the current demand. As for places to stay, there's loads of rural stuff for good prices even in August as long as you're prepared to be in the middle of nowhere, but if you're renting a car that'll be no bother. Try somewhere in the midlands for a touring base and it'll be fuck all, sure no one wants to go on holiday in Offaly or Laois for example.
Found a place to rent me a polo for 600 (obviously before all the other optional but obligatory shit like the 40 quid 'token' to cross the border), so I'll take that.
Ive never been to the Aran islands, the burren and loads of other places so I'll be taking advantage this time around:)
Pretty much all of the wild atlantic way is a winner if you haven't been there, and the Burren is class too. Bring your raincoat!
Ya some lovely places around Clare.
Head to kilaloe if you can. Lovely town.
What's it like in Dublin these days?
Quote from: blessed1 on June 27, 2021, 12:34:06 PM
Ya some lovely places around Clare.
Head to kilaloe if you can. Lovely town.
Dangerously close to Tipp there. Make sure not to cross the bridge!
Meanwhile, in covid-land: Tedros offers hope for the future... https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1409331370900393984
Had my second dose of the moderna yesterday and I'm completely fucked today.. sore head..sore arms legs back and chest.. Possibly what it feels like to be hit by a bus...had to leave work at lunchtime and take to the bed...let's see how it goes over the next few days...
Getting my second Pfizer dose on Wednesday. Dreading the fallout from that, it's meant to be worse after the second one and I went fucking deaf after the first.
I had to go home from work after the second moderna one too. Glad to have it done all the same, opens up a few more doors.
Quote from: Carnage on June 28, 2021, 08:24:04 PM
Getting my second Pfizer dose on Wednesday. Dreading the fallout from that, it's meant to be worse after the second one and I went fucking deaf after the first.
Keep us updated, should be getting my second dose towards the end of July.
Good few people I know had the 2nd shot and all said it wasn't as bad as the first. Every one of them said they had never felt tiredness like it but all were back to full speed the following morning so I'd say ye'll be grand lads. I'm going by a sample size of about 15 people and no major anything from shot 2.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 28, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on June 27, 2021, 12:34:06 PM
Ya some lovely places around Clare.
Head to kilaloe if you can. Lovely town.
Dangerously close to Tipp there. Make sure not to cross the bridge!
Funnily enough, I was in Sligo town today having a pint and the barman said he was from Killaloe. Jaysus says I, you're nearly a Tipp man. "Fuck no" says the lad and I can't say I blame him.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 28, 2021, 03:09:09 PM
Meanwhile, in covid-land: Tedros offers hope for the future... https://twitter.com/MichaelPSenger/status/1409331370900393984
And while we are on the subject of vaccines, how did any of you feel to hear Tedros saying that even after the shots there will still be testing/track and trace, that vaccines by themselves won't be enough? Ok so probably no-one clicked the link but that's what it says anyway. Bit of a bum deal there and I dunno about the rest of ye, but it fairly undermines the hard sell of getting the thing in the first place if it changes nothing. Lobbying from the testing industry? Or what?
I think I might have anticipated this coming. I think a lot more of my fears which were voiced in this thread for the last 15 months will also prove true in time.
https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1409604121657815045
Imagine this is where we are at. Coercion? Nah
Isn't that going to be the way anyhow, no vaccine no doing anything?
Gone beyond a joke now.
Update: Woke up this morning and went from the being hit by a bus feeling yesterday to feeling relatively normal today.....mental!!
First jab yesterday - Pfizer - no problems - didn't even feel the needle. I was talking through my hole to yer man though so that probably distracted me. :laugh:
Don't have a sore arm or feel ill. Only thing I could say was that I get a dull sensation when I lift my arm over my head.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 28, 2021, 11:03:25 PM
I think I might have anticipated this coming. I think a lot more of my fears which were voiced in this thread for the last 15 months will also prove true in time.
https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1409604121657815045
Imagine this is where we are at. Coercion? Nah
It'll be like trying to get served when you were underage all over again, sticking your photo on your mates vaccine pass to get in and have a cheeky pint.
Quote from: Bigmac on June 29, 2021, 11:56:20 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 28, 2021, 11:03:25 PM
I think I might have anticipated this coming. I think a lot more of my fears which were voiced in this thread for the last 15 months will also prove true in time.
https://twitter.com/ZaraKing/status/1409604121657815045
Imagine this is where we are at. Coercion? Nah
It'll be like trying to get served when you were underage all over again, sticking your photo on your mates vaccine pass to get in and have a cheeky pint.
This will be some fuckin' craic to enforce.
"Hi, I'm on €8.50 an hour. Can I see your ID and vaccination info? Please don't thump the shite out of me."
Quote from: livingabortion on June 29, 2021, 12:27:24 AM
Isn't that going to be the way anyhow, no vaccine no doing anything?
"It's just 2 weeks to flatten the curve" has certainly grown legs. If I can be arsed to find it, I said in a rant here sometime last year that everywhere we saw the words "Face Covering" that we would soon be replacing it with "Proof of Vaccination".
Make no mistake, this is a very fucking slippery slope from here, even for those who are vaccinated. It is only going to get worse once this gets in the door, if we all simply accept it. The whole point of this charade continuing to this day is to get those vaccine papers through. Otherwise it would have ended in Feb or March.
Has anybody actually looked at the laughable projections that were used to justify the 2 week delay? They are beyond fucking laughable and if I made them here I'd be laughed off the board. To say that we would have another couple of thousand deaths by September and a couple of hundred thousand cases is actual fucking madness. Seriously.
Not a hope is all of this still about a novel virus. Not a hope. The profiteers have their foot in the door and they won't be taking it out any time soon. Watch.
It's depressing how timeframes have been lengthened and what's been required of us is getting more and more.
I only go out to do shopping, there's fuck all else to do.
If you don't want to get vaccinated, just go out of your way to get infected instead: if you can show you've recovered from COVID within the previous 9 months, you'll be eligible for indoor access too!
Holohan has been itching for years to kill off the drinking culture in Ireland - he probably gets down on his knees and thanks that Chinese lab every night for giving him this opportunity.
See this shit? >:(
https://youtu.be/ttoN6KSwfi0
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 29, 2021, 03:15:01 PM
If you don't want to get vaccinated, just go out of your way to get infected instead: if you can show you've recovered from COVID within the previous 9 months, you'll be eligible for indoor access too!
Y'know I've thought about that. Getting an antibody test to see. But then what happens after 9 months, or indeed if vaccinated what happens when it's booster time? That's right - more shots for all! I had 50 doses of the Janssen in my hand the other day and I really got down to thinking about how small and yet so massive those 10 little vials really were, and I pondered the whole situation for quite some time and really I'm still none the wiser as to how as a society we have all come to accept this situation so readily.
I have a great book "The Coming of the Third Reich" and it describes the inexorable descent into madness in great detail and how subtle it all was at the time vs simply reading of the massive and main events. It was so subtle and so many side roads on that journey that it's almost amazing how it all came together. Not the war itself, just the situation that allowed the rise of the Nazi party. I see now how subtle it all is, the change in mentality in people at all levels, the Us and Them, the distrust, the propaganda and fuck knows what else.. frightening stuff.
This whole thing of being sick until proven healthy is one of the most fucked up notions we've ever come to accept, and yet here we are..
Don't give up man; carry on kampfing.
"This whole thing of being sick until proven healthy is one of the most fucked up notions we've ever come to accept, and yet here we are.."
YEAH, it's absolute bullshit, "All you people who are well, you stay indoors away from people and then get a vaccination to continue not being well". BOLLOCKS!
Second jab got, just waiting for the inevitable now.
Hopefully you get off lightly.
Quote from: Carnage on June 30, 2021, 03:11:24 PM
Second jab got, just waiting for the inevitable now.
Here's to an easier time this time
Knowing my luck my dick will fall off, or I'll grow antlers. From my arse.
Quote from: Carnage on June 30, 2021, 04:48:19 PM
Knowing my luck my dick will fall off, or I'll grow antlers. From my arse.
Or antlers on your dick :P :laugh:
Seriously, all the best with it.
You'll be grand. Actually this reminds me of the old joke where a lad asks for a mickey that touches the floor and his legs fall off.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 30, 2021, 07:54:04 PM
You'll be grand. Actually this reminds me of the old joke where a lad asks for a mickey that touches the floor and his legs fall off.
;D ;D ;D
Luck of the draw and all that. Had a nasty headcold after the first, resulting in the ear thing. I just hope it's not a repeat, 'cos that isn't sorted yet. Fuck it, I'll find out tomorrow, I suppose. For all I know, the headcold was just a coincidence.
I was told have plenty of water and a couple of paracetamol if needs be. All the best with it.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 29, 2021, 01:22:03 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on June 29, 2021, 12:27:24 AM
Isn't that going to be the way anyhow, no vaccine no doing anything?
"It's just 2 weeks to flatten the curve" has certainly grown legs. If I can be arsed to find it, I said in a rant here sometime last year that everywhere we saw the words "Face Covering" that we would soon be replacing it with "Proof of Vaccination".
Make no mistake, this is a very fucking slippery slope from here, even for those who are vaccinated. It is only going to get worse once this gets in the door, if we all simply accept it. The whole point of this charade continuing to this day is to get those vaccine papers through. Otherwise it would have ended in Feb or March.
Has anybody actually looked at the laughable projections that were used to justify the 2 week delay? They are beyond fucking laughable and if I made them here I'd be laughed off the board. To say that we would have another couple of thousand deaths by September and a couple of hundred thousand cases is actual fucking madness. Seriously.
Not a hope is all of this still about a novel virus. Not a hope. The profiteers have their foot in the door and they won't be taking it out any time soon. Watch.
I think you get far too worked up about this mate.
Human societies have been dominated and controlled since the dawn of civilisation. This current day stuff is all just a symptom of a larger picture and a shift from one historical era to the next. The disintegration of the West amidst increasing technological influences and surveillance.
Its not like we were free in previous times and are somehow now just accepting coercion and domination. The current era is interesting for sure but isn't exactly special or unique in its upheaval.
I think all you (we) can do is accept the present moment and try and enjoy it. What you or anyone else has done in the past is immaterial now and living in the future is just as futile.
Amazingly, I think everyone else is not getting worked up enough, and more than anything that's going on right now, it's the setting of the precedent which worries me.
But each to their own. Some people like to be micro managed but i was never one for it so I'll likely continue picking holes in it all where i find them. At the same time I can see that others have slightly different outlooks on it all so i don't expect a lot of agreement. If it wasn't getting all mandatory I'd be happy enough to sit back and watch it unfold in whatever way.
And maybe I'll be all wrong in the end. I never rule that out.
Quote from: Grim Reality on July 01, 2021, 01:46:16 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 29, 2021, 01:22:03 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on June 29, 2021, 12:27:24 AM
Isn't that going to be the way anyhow, no vaccine no doing anything?
"It's just 2 weeks to flatten the curve" has certainly grown legs. If I can be arsed to find it, I said in a rant here sometime last year that everywhere we saw the words "Face Covering" that we would soon be replacing it with "Proof of Vaccination".
Make no mistake, this is a very fucking slippery slope from here, even for those who are vaccinated. It is only going to get worse once this gets in the door, if we all simply accept it. The whole point of this charade continuing to this day is to get those vaccine papers through. Otherwise it would have ended in Feb or March.
Has anybody actually looked at the laughable projections that were used to justify the 2 week delay? They are beyond fucking laughable and if I made them here I'd be laughed off the board. To say that we would have another couple of thousand deaths by September and a couple of hundred thousand cases is actual fucking madness. Seriously.
Not a hope is all of this still about a novel virus. Not a hope. The profiteers have their foot in the door and they won't be taking it out any time soon. Watch.
I think you get far too worked up about this mate.
Human societies have been dominated and controlled since the dawn of civilisation. This current day stuff is all just a symptom of a larger picture and a shift from one historical era to the next. The disintegration of the West amidst increasing technological influences and surveillance.
Its not like we were free in previous times and are somehow now just accepting coercion and domination. The current era is interesting for sure but isn't exactly special or unique in its upheaval.
I think all you (we) can do is accept the present moment and try and enjoy it. What you or anyone else has done in the past is immaterial now and living in the future is just as futile.
It's all about the type of society we want to leave for future generations. We look back on the previous generations for the state of the world now . We have huge amounts of public debt, an incurable housing crisis, massive wealth inequality etc etc because previous generations had taken a similar passive attitude. I'm glad I do not have kids.
Just cut in 2?
I'LL HAVE IT :D
48+ hours after jab 2 and so far no major after effects. Good stuff. It would seem that the headcold after the first one was unrelated.
At a wedding here and Astfgyl was the only lad wearing a mask for the majority of it
:laugh: noooooooo
Quote from: ochoill on July 02, 2021, 04:54:38 PM
At a wedding here and Astfgyl was the only lad wearing a mask for the majority of it
:laugh:
Haha! Where are the Metal Warfare paparazzi when ya need them!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 02, 2021, 09:43:46 PM
Haha! Where are the Metal Warfare paparazzi when ya need them!
Unfortunately the only photos I have on my phone are of him later on, sans mask and plus cans. It'll never be proven so
Pass 'em on; gonna deep fake the shit out of them. Stick a mask and a Pfizer tattoo on him!
Quote from: Carnage on July 02, 2021, 04:31:23 PM
48+ hours after jab 2 and so far no major after effects. Good stuff. It would seem that the headcold after the first one was unrelated.
That's good news
Quote from: astfgyl on July 02, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
Amazingly, I think everyone else is not getting worked up enough, and more than anything that's going on right now, it's the setting of the precedent which worries me.
But each to their own. Some people like to be micro managed but i was never one for it so I'll likely continue picking holes in it all where i find them. At the same time I can see that others have slightly different outlooks on it all so i don't expect a lot of agreement. If it wasn't getting all mandatory I'd be happy enough to sit back and watch it unfold in whatever way.
And maybe I'll be all wrong in the end. I never rule that out.
You have every good reason to be concerned, it is necessary to call it out !
There should be a WEF Great Reset Thread of it 's own here for anyone curious , theres tonnes of articles and vids on the WEF but this is a more recent one.
https://odysee.com/@IvorCummins:f/brilliant-and-educational-what's-up-with:5?src=embed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se19Dk5Q_Ko
Great news!
https://twitter.com/bryanvilleneuve/status/1411174932617338880
Interesting column in the Mail on Sunday from the new UK Health Secretary. Let's see how it ages but sounds like a bit of common sense kicking in so far..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9753313/SAJID-JAVID-health-arguments-opening-Britain-compelling.html
The World Economic Forum have nothing to do with Covid. Nothing at all.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/3-tactics-to-overcome-covid-19-vaccine-hesitancy/
Terrible news!
There's a new variant, the "Lambda" variant, in South America and spreading fast.
It has seven mutations in its spike protein, yes, you read right, SEVEN.
I'm hiding under the bed typing this.
It's up to you whether you think it's terrible or not, but your sarcasm around the molecular description of its composition is, eh, pretty weird tbh.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 05, 2021, 12:18:48 PM
It's up to you whether you think it's terrible or not, but your sarcasm around the molecular description of its composition is, eh, pretty weird tbh.
Well I'm a pretty weird man tbh.
Apologies if my low-brow attempt at levity failed to stimulate the release of hilarity neurotransmitters in your high-browed head.
Haha, nah, I got what you mean like; there's yet another new variant - as there will continue to be for the foreseeable - and the media are playing it up to make us feel like we need to be scared of it. I read you emphasizing the 7 mutations bit like you were angling at that being a media invention, but maybe that was just me own brain bias of associating this thread with various levels of paranoia.
Who gives a fuck about the number of mutations on the spike protein? It's just another angle to try keep the fear going and the variant shit has went up a notch since the renaming. Take the delta one for example, plenty of cases, fuck all hospitalisations, fuck all deaths. Take the Kent variant we were so scared of, fuck all deaths fuck all hospitalisations again. The fucking thing is seasonal so all the variant bullshit is simply bullshit until the winter illness season kicks back in and then whatever variant is in vogue will be blamed for extra deaths and more restrictions and booster shots and oh shit this one dodges the vaccine and oh no the unvaccinated can spread this one to the vaccinated and fuck we better give all the kids the vaccine as well just to be sure we can keep the schools open. Yeah it's seasonal. Imagine that, it's just like every other endemic respiratory virus doing the rounds including the several other coronaviruses which cause a common cold in people all over the world every year. Fucking variants, pure bullshit and go fuck with em. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF VARIANTS ALREADY. Each new one of concern is of political concern
Meanwhile the segregation of society based on social status is going well in Ireland, where the VIP section of the pilot gig can mingle freely and der untermensch are in some sort of fucking sheep pen. For a seasonal virus which almost no one catches in the summer anyway just like all the other ones. Makes sense.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5hWoVpXIAA2dS7?format=jpg&name=small)
Filthy common scum, look at em.
If it's purely seasonal, then why the mismatch in trends between neighbouring countries? The UK was low in cases until the delta variant hit (using that as a point in time, nothing else), a time at which France was high. France is now low and the UK is high. What trans-channel 4-6 week long "seasons" account for that?
Sure even compare the UK now to the UK at the same seasonal point this time last year:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
Where do you get seasonality from that?? Can't conclude that there isn't a seasonal factor, but there's clearly some other factor that is able to beat it.
The trick is in the testing. It gives a false impression of what is actually going on due to pre test probability being low at this time of year. For example the common cold and influenza are both seasonal but that doesn't mean that no one is carrying it in the summer. In fact if we were to test with the same vigour for those we would almost certainly find many "cases" of those too. Hospital admissions and deaths are the only solid outcomes to really measure the severity by and both of those have fallen off a cliff in the summer both this year and last year. Cases are directly proportional to the number of tests performed both this summer and last. It's all on ourworldindata.com although the site is a bit unwieldy at times. The vaccines if they work will also influence the outcome but the efficacy of those cannot be truly measured until we go through another winter season. Different climates of course will have different seasonal curves so it won't be uniform worldwide at any given time. Also another note on the vaccines; if they work (and I have no reason to think they won't), variants are nothing to worry about no matter when they appear, although I suspect it will be like the flu jab and reduce rather than eliminate the impact. I'm also not going to claim to know the full mechanics of seasonality or whether it's down to vitamin D levels or some other combination of factors (because it's probably extremely complicated) but if it goes away in summer and comes back in winter, it's seasonal. Presumably there will also be differences in which exact weeks it kicks in from year to year but the overall effect is still noticeable. Definitely ignore case numbers though as they are pretty meaningless at this stage.
So you're saying that the other major determining factor, after season, is the amount of testing? In which case, the UK must have been doing hardly any testing up til a few weeks ago but now they've started doing loads, whereas France were doing loads up til a few weeks ago and are now doing hardly any? Anything to back that up?? Any explanation as to why, even if it were true, post-Brexit UK would voluntarily push its own numbers up at this delicate point in time? Or do you reckon it's sabotage? Or is it at least as possible that more than anything else it really is all a big cluster-fuck that nobody is in control of but everyone's using to push their own agenda?
In any case, at the moment it looks like the UK are going to ignore their case numbers and drop restrictions anyway. That's set to happen just around the time we'll find out whether the current spike in cases translates into any increase in deaths.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 05, 2021, 05:17:46 PM
Or is it at least as possible that more than anything else it really is all a big cluster-fuck that nobody is in control of but everyone's using to push their own agenda?
That's probably the best description of what is going on.
The UK to be fair do have a lot of excellent data published here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/testing which gives the tests per day and does indeed show a moderate increase in tests performed of late. I think they are looking to push on with the reopening because they don't foresee a massive wave of deaths, although personally I do expect it to come back in autumn and winter, with the resultant hospitalisations and deaths, but if it doesn't open up now it will have to be lockdowns again as the serious cases rise back up. I can see why politicians are reluctant to unlock things though and it's a case of damned if you do or damned if you don't. I can also see the reluctance to speak of seasonality because it means the response must be questioned and if I was in charge I wouldn't like to answer those questions, although I was all for lockdown in the beginning myself (well I didn't love the idea but did think it was the right thing, given the unknowns).
Johnson at his most Boris; the perfect blend of loud, broad, freedom-granting claims, hedged all over the place with small print:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/05/boris-johnson-says-most-covid-rules-likely-to-end-in-england-on-19-july
There is a lot of that small print, too. And variant talk in there a fair bit, and also I see they have already pegged the flu for a return, showing remarkable foresight.
All the same, I truly hope they can weather the storm that will inevitably come with this, both politically and health-wise and lead by example for other countries who may be afraid to take a hard political decision in this part of the world just as Florida, Texas, Missouri and many others did in the US before things accelerated towards whatever is this new normal we've been promised. Also hopefully the vaccines provide robust enough protection in the vulnerable groups to keep deaths to a minimum, because that has been the one common purpose in all of this. Some wanted to do it by lockdowns and indirect deaths and ruination of lives and some wanted to do it by the road of focused protection which still made life pretty shit for the vulnerable and some wanted the straight up taking it on the chin and getting on with it, but all approaches were being sold on the argument of mitigating the number of deaths in the long run and no single approach is perfect for sure.
It does all come down to the notion of acceptable risk at the end though and I was helping my 80 something year old neighbour today with something and interestingly enough she was saying to me that she is done with it now, she has had covid already and has had two shots of the pfizer and now she thinks we all need to just get on with it and stop throwing the young under the bus because the shots are there to be had. She also couldn't give a fuck if I take it or not because she thinks her one either protects her or it doesn't and if it doesn't then what's the point in worrying if I've had mine or not. Good to hear it but instead of emboldening me, I was more inspired by her magnanimity and didn't bother getting into what I thought of it all. Still, if the seniors are done with it and all then it must be nearly finished hopefully.
Ah jaysus...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5w5yVxXoAA3BrO?format=jpg&name=medium)
Follow the science!
That is the most moronic thing I have ever read.
Fear is the virus.
Heineken is pisswater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akxfPV-A_C0
At least James Corden isn't in it!
Also it looks like the eternal night isn't far off for these medical apartheid cunts so let them have their fun I suppose.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 05, 2021, 05:17:46 PM
So you're saying that the other major determining factor, after season, is the amount of testing?
Further to that, and also acknowledging that of course testing is not the only factor (because winter), here's Paul Reid, head of the HSE explaining Ireland's recent moderate rise in "cases"
https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1412330402476351490
Delta me hole.
QuoteOne of the differences between hotels and restaurants, is the customer's use of toilets
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I'm going to Stendhal festival in Limavady tomorrow. 2 days of live music and cramping. The toilets are cleaned after every use, so I can't see this being a problem :laugh:
Discovered who Dolores Cahill is today. Holy god:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/byelection-candidate-dolores-cahill-refused-admission-to-count-centre-1.4615772
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=867936700596462&id=108165827525134&fs=0&focus_composer=0&m_entstream_source=video_home&player_format=permalink&ref=search
At first I was quite impressed by her CV and thought she might have something useful to add to the debate but she seems to be getting more and more into the 5G side of things and I lost interest in what she was saying, which I imagine has happened to quite a few who were initially intrigued by what she had to offer. Ah well... there'll be many more like her before we get to the other side of this lark.
I hold what could be seen as an irrational and childish hatred towards the garda but this fella cracked me up especially when she said "we've been here for over an hour":
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/ogyeng/i_hate_sharing_videos_of_this_woman_but_the_garda/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
"Hour and a half"
:laugh:
Fair play to him, he's amplifying the size of a spectacle she's making of herself. The rest of them are just about holding it in.
Quote from: open face surgery on July 10, 2021, 04:32:23 PM
I hold what could be seen as an irrational and childish hatred towards the garda but this fella cracked me up especially when she said "we've been here for over an hour":
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/ogyeng/i_hate_sharing_videos_of_this_woman_but_the_garda/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Doing a live fact check 😂
I have what could be described as a very rational and adult hatred of the gards and I find nothing funny whatsoever in the actions that ignorant peeler cunt. Fuck him, and fuck the sniggering pig sty behind him too.
That Garda had far too much tolerance for her nonsense antics. Should have acted as they would for anyone else that essentially assaulted them, or slandering them. But in fairness it showed her up all the better for the complete delusional headcase she is.
Live fact checks indeed 😂 The retort that his mother would be absolutely well proud of him was brilliant. Fair play on calling out the nonsensical propaganda attempts. There's surely ample meme opportunities here for inserting more class retorts here.
Hilarious to know that if she had got in she could have counted her measly votes in less than a minute and been on her way soon enough 🤣 But no, make the big show of yourself instead. Mouthing off about more "followers" than all the parties put together, and yet only 1 in every 428 in the area actually voted for her! A grand total of 169 votes, fair play, you beat Bess the Stray Cat (non-party).
Says a lot that even the Irish Freedom Party were ashamed to be associated with her so requested her to resign, despite previously only polling better than a dead person in Tipperary I believe.
The fecking muppet director of elections going on about the constitution, but conveniently ignoring laws passed under same 🤯 Scarlet for ya.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on July 11, 2021, 01:41:34 AM
I have what could be described as a very rational and adult hatred of the gards and I find nothing funny whatsoever in the actions that ignorant peeler cunt. Fuck him, and fuck the sniggering pig sty behind him too.
No. She's just an idiot and deserves every bit of ridicule she gets for acting the spa.
"Do you know if you restrict someone it's actually rape, under the law."
She's the type of woman who'd accuse someone of rape for forgetting to put the kettle on.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on July 11, 2021, 01:41:34 AM
I have what could be described as a very rational and adult hatred of the gards and I find nothing funny whatsoever in the actions that ignorant peeler cunt. Fuck him, and fuck the sniggering pig sty behind him too.
I thought the video was funny but I still really enjoyed this comment and the general sentiment
Watching the Wimbledon final, you'd never guess there were any restrictions apart from the proles down below with the cameras. Great to see it :)
Quote from: Caomhaoin on July 11, 2021, 03:07:41 PM
Watching the Wimbledon final, you'd never guess there were any restrictions apart from the proles down below with the cameras. Great to see it :)
Fair play on finding the one thing less enjoyable than debating the fallout from a joke.
Nothing wrong with a bit of tennis big lad!
Thought that was a game for those with more....delicate sensibilities.
That's soccer you're thinking of - a game, not a sport.
Macron addressing the nation tomorrow evening. Crèche has already cancelled some kind of outdoor lunch picnic thing for parents originally planned for Thursday (not exactly crying over this loss :laugh: ), but I reckon aul Manu don't have good news for us.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on July 11, 2021, 03:07:41 PM
Watching the Wimbledon final, you'd never guess there were any restrictions apart from the proles down below with the cameras. Great to see it :)
Didn't you know your level of risk and potential for spreading the deadly virus is directly proportional to your income? Well it is. G7, Royal Ascot, Wimbledon all going ahead as normal.
Was reading this bit about vaccines today, some may find it interesting. It's about Novavax, which seems (still in trials like all the rest) to have similar reported efficacy with milder side effects. Might encourage a few of the refuseniks (well the ones who are refusing over safety fears). Few links in it with interesting things as well.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/
It's fucked up how other countries can have fully attended football matches and we have one fucking outdoor concert with people were herded like cattle into fucking pens.
Quote from: livingabortion on July 11, 2021, 07:12:59 PM
It's fucked up how other countries can have fully attended football matches and we have one fucking outdoor concert where people were herded like cattle into fucking pens.
Quote from: livingabortion on July 11, 2021, 07:12:59 PM
It's fucked up how other countries can have fully attended football matches and we have one fucking outdoor concert with people were herded like cattle into fucking pens.
But the "influencers" were allowed out of the cattle mart to mingle at least! And they all shared on social media what a wonderful time they were having so there is that.
Oh well that's not hypocritical :-\
https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1411265388541788161/photo/2
Quote from: livingabortion on July 11, 2021, 07:32:25 PM
Oh well that's not hypocritical :-\
https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1411265388541788161/photo/2
This pilot event was a particular high point for stupidity. Really sad sad stuff and pointless to boot. What exactly did that pilot event tell anyone about safely reopening anything?
Seems pubs and restaurants won't be opening too soon. Health care was a mess at Xmas and it's clear the government don't want a repeat of last Xmas. Bit annoying seeing other countries with everything open
Word on the grapevine is that what's to be announced tonight is the "health pass" for access to restaurants and cinemas. This would be Macron going back on something he explicitly said 10 months ago would never be done. There are other ways in which he's quite similar to Johnson too!
The Jew World Order must've had a 'word'....
Stop being a total fucking spastic cock, yeah?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 12, 2021, 11:56:40 AM
Word on the grapevine is that what's to be announced tonight is the "health pass" for access to restaurants and cinemas. This would be Macron going back on something he explicitly said 10 months ago would never be done. There are other ways in which he's quite similar to Johnson too!
This is coming in everywhere, regardless of what any of the "leaders" say in the meantime. I already linked the plan from the EU website some pages ago, but if anyone hasn't seen it I can dig it out again. Another crazy conspiracy theory I guess.
Quote from: Necro Red on July 12, 2021, 10:17:30 AM
Seems pubs and restaurants won't be opening too soon. Health care was a mess at Xmas and it's clear the government don't want a repeat of last Xmas. Bit annoying seeing other countries with everything open
If they don't open up in the summer when deaths are at nothing (fuck cases if they lead to nothing), when should they do it? Some time in the autumn perhaps, when the regular respiratory illness season kicks in? Doesn't make sense at all. Also look around at what everyone has been doing since last February. No one is following any sort of rules and if this was as non-seasonal and as novel as we are told, people should be dropping like flies but they aren't. In fact to get a rise in cases, the HSE is increasing testing by 30% each week (at the wrong ct value!). It's nonsensical.
Health care is a mess every January in this country. The busiest week for the hospitals in every respiratory season in this country is the second week of January give or take a few days so what happened here after christmas is no surprise. Ireland has spent half a billion euro on PCR testing in the last year and ran the tests up to a ct value of 45 (confirmed by office of minister for health) and in doing so, have actually hampered things for themselves by making a problem appear to be a lot worse than it is in forcing health staff to isolate when not contagious. Were testing/isolating to be confined to those with actual symptoms of anything, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Now, could anyone propose an answer to the dilemma of countries and US states that reopened fully (no masks, distancing, indoor drinking/dining, full events etc) and nothing happened? I mean nothing different than the places which didn't open. Florida is the earliest example I know of (fully open since last August) and yes they still have cases and yes they have deaths, but nothing approaching the apocalypse we are all led to believe will come if we open up without the magic vaccines. They can easily be compared with states with a similar climate to show it didn't make a blind bit of difference if anyone doubts what I'm saying here. Texas was next and were strictly warned and vilified in the media after old Joe Biden said that opening up was "Neanderthal thinking". Guess what happened there..? Yes, nothing. Nothing at all and the media went strangely quiet on Texas and Florida.
Reading that, and assuming that I've done my homework and am not telling lies, can anyone propose an answer as to why exactly that's the way it went?
Also, some countries and states that didn't open up saw peaks and troughs in their rates of cases and deaths regardless. The answer to why nothing happened in some open places (the states are the best examples of this due to their geographical similarities but political differences) and something happened in some closed places is likely the same answer and I have some ideas around that but I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks that might be due to. Also it isn't the vaccines, as these states I've used as an example were open before the vaccines had a chance to show an effect (both Texas and Florida have signed executive orders against immunity passports, and the take up in those states is not particularly high due to the fact there is less coercion and also influenced by political leanings).
I think that Reiner Fuellmich is very close to getting to the bottom of the problem, but I dunno if anybody keeps up with him around here, and the answer in my head is something along the lines of some of the evidence he has been hearing lately in his Corona Ausschuss meetings although not exactly the same.
Quote from: livingabortion on July 11, 2021, 07:12:59 PM
It's fucked up how other countries can have fully attended football matches and we have one fucking outdoor concert with people were herded like cattle into fucking pens.
I know a lad who was at that. He said there was no drink, no mingling, no craic whatsoever. He was raging and said something along the lines of "I didn't get injected with an experimental vaccine to have to put up with this shit" :laugh:
Meanwhile I went to Stendhal festival in Derry at the weekend. No social distancing, no police, all the craic. 2 days of decent tunes and it didn't rain. Plenty of yokes lads there ye would have loved it.
Sounds decent! I've actually noticed that the yokes are back lately and although I haven't been partaking, it's great to see.
Hmmmm.... where have I heard this before?
Getting a little unbelievable even for me at this stage, but here we are.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1414511880832438275
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2021, 07:50:23 PM
Sounds decent! I've actually noticed that the yokes are back lately and although I haven't been partaking, it's great to see.
Looking at this and your previous post, and one that sticks in my mind about having a mashed up joint, soggy and you chanced smoking it before going into work because you were wrecked, it's clear that you're a multilayered man. Can't say I dislike it :)
I've a fortnight in Scotland booked from Aug 1, and as things stand, I can get in not a bother, provided the NHS did the inoculating. Total bullshit. Being an Irish citizen might get me over the line but I doubt it.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on July 12, 2021, 08:25:07 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2021, 07:50:23 PM
Sounds decent! I've actually noticed that the yokes are back lately and although I haven't been partaking, it's great to see.
Looking at this and your previous post, and one that sticks in my mind about having a mashed up joint, soggy and you chanced smoking it before going into work because you were wrecked, it's clear that you're a multilayered man. Can't say I dislike it :)
Cheers Kev!
The viennetta of Metal warfare.
Viennetta is nice. Just the regular one though, not the new flavours.
At the rate this pandemic is playing out, some of us will be lucky to experience a viennetta again:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/07/12/opinion/covid-fed-qe-inequality.html
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2021, 08:19:19 PM
Hmmmm.... where have I heard this before?
Getting a little unbelievable even for me at this stage, but here we are.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1414511880832438275
At 8 Seconds In "We're Never Going Back To Normal". Masks, Social Distancing and Lockdowns are the future.
Quote from: livingabortion on July 13, 2021, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 12, 2021, 08:19:19 PM
Hmmmm.... where have I heard this before?
Getting a little unbelievable even for me at this stage, but here we are.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1414511880832438275
At 8 Seconds In "We're Never Going Back To Normal". Masks, Social Distancing and Lockdowns are the future.
Anyone got a full original video source for this snippet? Not impossible he said what he says here, but there's something weird about the video movement that makes me wonder whether it isn't a deep fake.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 09:38:10 AM
Anyone got a full original video source for this snippet? Not impossible he said what he says here, but there's something weird about the video movement that makes me wonder whether it isn't a deep fake.
Now that you mention it, it does look a bit weird yeah. The audio/video sync is definitely off, and the voice has an overly warm tone to it, whereas the room looks like his voice should be more echoey. The subtitles could be a red herring too :laugh:
Think this is the original
https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1403462911612362757?s=19
Quote from: pete on July 13, 2021, 11:08:22 AM
Think this is the original
https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1403462911612362757?s=19
Sound, certainly looks like it alright; same tie, exactly the same folds in the flags, etc., yet a full month old..
Well, if it is a deep fake, a glance at the comments shows us the extent of the new hell we're entering with respect to what people think they know. As if things weren't bad enough already on that level.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 11:35:45 AM
Well, if it is a deep fake, a glance at the comments shows us the extent of the new hell we're entering with respect to what people think they know. As if things weren't bad enough already on that level.
Yeah looks like a deep fake alright. Anyone wanna bet on a major international event occurring in the next decade due to a deep fake video?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 11:35:45 AM
Quote from: pete on July 13, 2021, 11:08:22 AM
Think this is the original
https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1403462911612362757?s=19
Sound, certainly looks like it alright; same tie, exactly the same folds in the flags, etc., yet a full month old..
Well, if it is a deep fake, a glance at the comments shows us the extent of the new hell we're entering with respect to what people think they know. As if things weren't bad enough already on that level.
Yeah I dunno. I presumed it was just out of context when I first seen it here. And letting people jump to conclusions, as above. Just because what he says isn't that ridiculous if he was speaking about his brief and some new programme within it.
It has them all riled up anyway going by the replies to it ha.
Quote from: pete on July 13, 2021, 11:08:22 AM
Think this is the original
https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1403462911612362757?s=19
Link not working for me. Was it removed?
No, it's still there. Try this:
https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1403462911612362757
So even if it was a real video, what's the big deal about here... after two years of this unprecedented shit we've all been through, Astfgyl is surprised that world leaders have a plan in place to reduce the risk of further pandemics or disaster? Catch me up.
It's more that it's got every "secret" dog whistle expression thrown in there ("new normal", "build back better") to reinforce the idea that the whole thing was planned since before COVID hit, plus everything that may imply, depending on where the viewer has placed themselves on the spectrum from 0 to 5G vaccine nanobots shedding RNA that warp perception of the horizon to make it appear that the earth is round.
Ah right. Cheers man. The New World Order is still comin' so.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 12:25:41 PM
No, it's still there. Try this:
https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1403462911612362757
Still not working for me. I don't have a twitter account though, naybe that's the issue?
Quote from: Nazgûl on July 13, 2021, 01:14:11 PM
So even if it was a real video, what's the big deal about here... after two years of this unprecedented shit we've all been through, Astfgyl is surprised that world leaders have a plan in place to reduce the risk of further pandemics or disaster? Catch me up.
Do you think the social credit system in China is a good idea? Are you not a bit concerned that we could end up going down that route?
No I don't agree with it. But given the video -- whether fake or not -- has no real context, I can't see how what he's talking about has anything to do with something akin to the Chinese social credit system?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 01:20:00 PM
It's more that it's got every "secret" dog whistle expression thrown in there ("new normal", "build back better") to reinforce the idea that the whole thing was planned since before COVID hit, plus everything that may imply, depending on where the viewer has placed themselves on the spectrum from 0 to 5G vaccine nanobots shedding RNA that warp perception of the horizon to make it appear that the earth is round.
See what you did there. You've used the obviously shit stuff like the flat earth and the 5g (which, let's face it, will be used to usher in an unprecedented era of surveillance but won't microwave us all) to make what I've been saying for the last year seem irrational because you have taken the position that it's all above board the way the leaders of every country are falling into line with the mantra of the WEF, who pretty much nobody ever heard of prior to being told that they are ushering in some sort of new normal for us all despite being unelected by anyone. Hopefully your attempt to ridicule me will help you to settle in to it all more peacefully.
Does anybody here seriously believe that this wasn't all planned prior to the epidemic in wuhan province in late 2019? If so, then ye haven't been doing the homework. Every bit was flagged in advance. Look up Event 201. Coincidence? Coincidences abound lately..
How many of the things I've said in this thread have turned out to be bullshit so far, exactly?
By the very definition of a conspiracy, this all fits perfectly and is far from a theory. So yeah, even by my standards it's getting weird. The new normal was advertised as being temporary as well but now look where it is going. Permanent.
How did Macron's announcement go the other evening by the way?
Sorry man, I actually wasn't trying to ridicule you. Just pointing out, if it was indeed a deep fake video, how the expressions placed into it would have a very different effect on people watching it depending on how deep into the conspiracy side of things they were. So, Nazgul there didn't see anything particularly odd about it. You found that it reinforced your idea that the whole situation is being exploited to usher in a new world "build back better", etc., era that has been prepared behind the scenes for years, and anybody deeper still into it will see it as proof of whatever they think is going on, up to and including whatever "5G was engineered to cause COVID" style theories are still floating about. I found it suspicious both because of the odd jittery movement (although, looking at the original after, seems Harris just is a weird gesticulater :laugh: ) and because the concentration of these "shadowy" COVID conspiracy terms in it just seemed too conveniently high in a single, very short clip.
I didn't watch Macron in the end. From what I gather though, they've upped the populations of people vaccination is to be obligatory for to include all healthcare staff, and they've said the vaccine passport or negative test result will be required for bars and restaurants starting in August. And also that PCR tests will no longer be free from that point on. Strong-arming completion of the vaccination roll-out, in short. So, make of all that as you will. In any case, the vaccine passport angle isn't going down so well for the moment.
Edit: Make that bars, restaurants, trains, planes, medical centres, retirement homes, shopping centres...
No, that video alone doesn't have any real context, apart from the phrases that Chris has already mentioned.
But as a whole, do you not get the feeling that we're heading somewhere dodgy?
This time last year, I laughed at people when they said that we were heading towards a future where people would be required to get some new vaccine in order to travel and get back to a normal life. I said "No way are people going to just take a vaccine that has only been released with no long term effects".
Fast forward to now - most of my friends and other people I've spoken to are getting the vaccine, even though they're relatively young, healthy and not afraid of dying from covid.
They're scared that they won't be allowed out to enjoy their "normal" life ever again if they don't get the vaccine. They're not taking the vaccine because they want to, they're taking it because they're scared of the non-covid related consequences that will remain if they don't get it.
That is fucked up.
Or maybe I thought that people would be more hesitant in doing whatever their government tells them to.
A mate of mine has been banging on about the China social credit system since around this time last year too. I had a good laugh at him then, but seeing how compliant people are going about this, I'm not laughing anymore.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 03:43:36 PM
Sorry man, I actually wasn't trying to ridicule you. Just pointing out, if it was indeed a deep fake video, how the expressions placed into it would have a very different effect on people watching it depending on how deep into the conspiracy side of things they were. So, Nazgul there didn't see anything particularly odd about it. You found that it reinforced your idea that the whole situation is being exploited to usher in a new world "build back better", etc., era that has been prepared behind the scenes for years, and anybody deeper still into it will see it as proof of whatever they think is going on, up to and including whatever "5G was engineered to cause COVID" style theories are still floating about. I found it suspicious both because of the odd jittery movement (although, looking at the original after, seems Harris just is a weird gesticulater :laugh: ) and because the concentration of these "shadowy" COVID conspiracy terms in it just seemed too conveniently high in a single, very short clip.
I didn't watch Macron in the end. From what I gather though, they've upped the populations of people vaccination is to be obligatory for to include all healthcare staff, and they've said the vaccine passport or negative test result will be required for bars and restaurants starting in August. And also that PCR tests will no longer be free from that point on. Strong-arming completion of the vaccination roll-out, in short. So, make of all that as you will. In any case, the vaccine passport angle isn't going down so well for the moment.
Edit: Make that bars, restaurants, trains, planes, medical centres, retirement homes, shopping centres...
Fair enough so, I took it up personally but I get it now. Do you know something, I never even considered that it might be a deepfake, which is pretty naive on my part, given the ubiquitous nature of those currently.
Wow about France, that's getting a bit much to be fair. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of challenge to that but I don't know what sort of majority the government holds there or what sort of appetite the opposition have for opposing things. Actually while we are on to conspiracy theories a bit, I was reading a list of predictions last year and one of the predictions was that France would take an extremely hard line and drive the people to mass protest, which would lead to the military being brought in to control things. Now I would call that a conspiracy theory and I'd give no credence to that sort of predictive stuff which has no evidence to back it up but so far the hard line part seems on the cards but then that could apply to almost anywhere. As far as I know, the rapid antigen is being rolled out as a viable option for most of Europe, so hopefully that will be available to mitigate the potential cost of testing for people once the PCR has to be paid for.
And I came across another one lately, a chap called Dr David Martin who has been going through the list of patents filed by some of the main players in the pandemic and seems to think he has found some fairly damning stuff. Only found it the other night and I didn't agree with a couple of things he said but he was giving his evidence to Reiner Fuellmich so I watched the hour and a half video and if any of it is true it's pretty crazy stuff. Anyone seen it at all? I might link here but I'm thinking of going to the theories thread with it as well, but then nobody will look at it and it's a bit unfair on Fuellmich to lump him in there.
Quote from: Giggles on July 13, 2021, 03:54:32 PM
No, that video alone doesn't have any real context, apart from the phrases that Chris has already mentioned.
But as a whole, do you not get the feeling that we're heading somewhere dodgy?
This time last year, I laughed at people when they said that we were heading towards a future where people would be required to get some new vaccine in order to travel and get back to a normal life. I said "No way are people going to just take a vaccine that has only been released with no long term effects".
Fast forward to now - most of my friends and other people I've spoken to are getting the vaccine, even though they're relatively young, healthy and not afraid of dying from covid.
They're scared that they won't be allowed out to enjoy their "normal" life ever again if they don't get the vaccine. They're not taking the vaccine because they want to, they're taking it because they're scared of the non-covid related consequences that will remain if they don't get it.
That is fucked up.
Or maybe I thought that people would be more hesitant in doing whatever their government tells them to.
A mate of mine has been banging on about the China social credit system since around this time last year too. I had a good laugh at him then, but seeing how compliant people are going about this, I'm not laughing anymore.
I find where we've ended up pretty unbelievable as well and all the things you say there also apply to me. The laughing with lads about the social credit and mandatory vaccinations and even when saying that it might happen on here, not fully believing it would really. Hopefully the disbelief keeps me going for another bit.
I watched the Reiner Fuellmich videos that you posted here months ago. I'm curious to know what's happening now, the only videos I can find regarding his crew are in german.
For anybody who doesn't know who he is, he's a German/American lawyer who specialises in sueing people for fraud and he has successfully sued both Volkswagen and Deutch Bank. Just take a moment there to comprehend the power of the legal team that both of those companies would have - and he won both times. He doesn't strike me as a lad who would just fuck around, and he is currently aiming to sue government officials, as well as the pushers (not sure if that is the correct word) of PCR testing for, well, fraud.
He formed a covid investigation committee with a bunch of other lawyers last summer and they have been speaking with hundreds of professionals in their chosen field, doctors, researchers etc. who have apparently been blowing whistles about some dodgy shit going on.
It didn't take him long to be banned from youtube anyway.
Quote from: Giggles on July 13, 2021, 05:55:38 PM
For anybody who doesn't know who he is, he's a German/American lawyer who specialises in sueing people for fraud and he has successfully sued both Volkswagen and Deutch Bank. Just take a moment there to comprehend the power of the legal team that both of those companies would have - and he won both times.
Any good links to read on his work in these cases?
No I don't, I don't even know what work he's actually done to date. Here's the link to the Corona investigative committee that he's involved in, I think he's been having interviews with scientists, virologists, epidemiologists etc but it's in German so I don't understand any of it https://corona-ausschuss.de/
I've watched 2 one hour long videos that were uploaded here in this thread about 7 and 9 months ago, of him talking about the work that he was going to do, but other than that I know fuck all other than they're planning a class action lawsuit against government officials in the US, Canada and Germany.
Here's a short 5 min youtube video on an update on what he's been at, up until January. "Lawsuits against government leaders are currently underway in Germany, the U.S and Canada. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plm4GDW-pYY
As an aside, I wasn't aware that portugal judges ruled PCR testing as "unreliable" in a court hearing last year https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2020-11-27/covid-pcr-test-reliability-doubtful-portugal-judges/56962
Just had a look at youtube there, here's a video of somebody interviewing him last month, so it's relatively up to date. I haven't watched it yet, I'll have a look later on. Any other videos I've seen him in on youtube have been removed after a month or so. This one is an hour long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJXCG3tXwj4&t=96s
Quote from: Giggles on July 13, 2021, 05:55:38 PM
I watched the Reiner Fuellmich videos that you posted here months ago. I'm curious to know what's happening now, the only videos I can find regarding his crew are in german.
Here's one in English. It's the latest one I've come across but it's going to be extremely controversial and certainly won't be found on youtube. Ever. If (and I mean if. These are massive claims, but the chap claims he has the evidence so worth a listen even if only to debunk and no 5G stuff involved whatsoever) what the chap in the video is saying checks out, even I will be dumbfounded and I'm a hardcore questioner. I'm also going to say that I have a slightly different idea in my mind of how things are panning out but I'm probably going to watch it again and play along with the patent searches because he does provide the exact numbers. I'd be very curious to see any of this argued in a court. Here anyway..
https://odysee.com/@FwapUK:1/A-manufactured-illusion.-Dr-David-Martin-with-Reiner-Fuellmich-9_7_21_-720p:5
Quote from: pete on July 13, 2021, 06:24:53 PM
Any good links to read on his work in these cases?
I searched a bit and found very little beyond fact checks attempting to discredit him, but that's to be expected I guess. Bit more to be found using the likes of Qwant and DuckDuckGo but every search of his name links to his Corona Ausschuss. Can find details of the cases but not with much mention of him although the fact checkers haven't said he wasn't even there yet, so that's something.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 13, 2021, 08:42:01 PM
Can find details of the cases but not with much mention of him
Even a link with not much mention of him will do me cheers.
No bother, I read that as wanting his exact involvement. My mistake.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-34324772 and https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-lawsuit-idUSKBN2310XG for the Volkswagen one,
and https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/deutsche-bank-agrees-pay-72-billion-misleading-investors-its-sale-residential-mortgage-backed for the Deutsche Bank.
Fuellmich is no bum, that's for sure but I don't know he might be pissing into the wind going up against the WHO and Pharma companies.
Briefly going back to the French declaration of vaccine passport necessity, apparently over 1,000,000 have made first time appointments in the last 24 hours.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 13, 2021, 09:09:12 PM
No bother, I read that as wanting his exact involvement. My mistake.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-34324772 and https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-lawsuit-idUSKBN2310XG for the Volkswagen one,
and https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/deutsche-bank-agrees-pay-72-billion-misleading-investors-its-sale-residential-mortgage-backed for the Deutsche Bank.
Fuellmich is no bum, that's for sure but I don't know he might be pissing into the wind going up against the WHO and Pharma companies.
Ha sorry yeah - I was looking for an article about the cases which actually mentioned him.
I thought Fuellmich might have been bigging up his involvement at first, LinkedIn style, but then couldn't find anything to show any link to him.
Far as I know he was most heavily involved in the bank, having worked for them. I suppose it would have to be news reports from the time, but I'd be surprised if any reports went into any detail of the actual trial lawyers involved, although as I said nobody has refuted his claims and it seems to be accepted as fact. He also seems like a fairly private guy up to this point so the sources will be scant. Try watching the video I linked to see if you find any of it credible, although he is just taking notes and laughing incredulously at most of what he is hearing. Poor old Wolfgang Wodarg looks like he is after aging 20 years just listening to it. Again: https://odysee.com/@FwapUK:1/A-manufactured-illusion.-Dr-David-Martin-with-Reiner-Fuellmich-9_7_21_-720p:5
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 13, 2021, 09:15:30 PM
Briefly going back to the French declaration of vaccine passport necessity, apparently over 1,000,000 have made first time appointments in the last 24 hours.
There's no doubt the coercion works. Somewhat ironically I've given the last 2 days taking names of young people begging for appointments for the shot and telling them of the backlog and how I might be able to ring them back with a time in a couple of weeks and how after that it's only 2 weeks until they are considered immune. The sound of their hopes being dashed at the thoughts of missing the indoor pints will haunt my dreams tonight. Maybe. But the threat of the passports sure does it for most people. Part of me thinks it's just a sales tactic but most of me knows this shit will be permanent.
And lest we forget, always watch out for misinformation. And desperation as well, watch out for that desperation, it's everywhere.. that desperation to save even more of us than are already being saved. It's for our own good, - we haven't behaved - but we have this one last chance and if we all just take our medicine we will all get better soon daddy promises and mammy promises as well we will be allowed out tomorrow and we won't be grounded again next week and we won't be put back into that yokkie mask again and we won't have to take that dirty test anymore as well. It's just a little pinch is all.
Watch this, this is that desperation I was talking about: from 2020 by the way. https://twitter.com/i/status/1414833132822478849
Lastly for tonight, the timing of this article is impeccable in light of the Fuellmich video I've posted there.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-00912-9 ...about the shared patents between all the vaccine companies. "Moderna, CureVac, Pfizer and BioNTech have all disclosed that the mRNA used in their vaccine candidates encodes a stabilized version of the spike protein that was developed by the NIH."
Sounds awfully familiar.
Don't have time to look through all that stuff, but will read through that Nature article. The state of intellectual property as it relates to fundamental research is an absolute mess. It's one of the most flagrant manifestations of all that is rotten about the structure of the capitalism we have.
Just noticed that cases in the Netherlands have jumped 500% since they scrapped all restrictions a couple of weeks ago, with daily case rate almost at the same level as mid-winter past. So far, only a small related increase in hospitalizations, and no noticeable increase in mortality, although both of those things drag by up to 4 weeks behind case increases, so we'll see. They've already rolled back on a lot of the restrictions they dropped though, based on the increase in cases. If those cases don't translate to significant hospitalizations and mortality, it may be what the UK need in order to say, "We were wrong first time, but maybe now that the vulnerable are vaccinated, we can let the cases rip and go for herd immunity." The counter-argument, which I've heard a few times, is this "long-COVID" thing. Sure, we'll see. Either way, this spike in cases is fairly impressive:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherlands/
Some nice videos about the socialist utopias some of you crave.... ☠️
Venezuela
https://youtu.be/2n7mK3dYOLw
North Korea
https://youtu.be/inebLA3HqPo
China
https://youtu.be/A1yXTlvTB08
Put it in a vaguely relevant thread.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 13, 2021, 10:04:33 PM
Far as I know he was most heavily involved in the bank, having worked for them. I suppose it would have to be news reports from the time, but I'd be surprised if any reports went into any detail of the actual trial lawyers involved, although as I said nobody has refuted his claims and it seems to be accepted as fact.
I think we can do better than that.
I think we need to be more critical of these stories before spreading them. It all seems to originate from his own content and random Facebook posts.
I'm filing it with the Simon Harris video for now!
This sounded like an up and coming blockbuster I'd like to see
Quote from: Giggles on July 13, 2021, 05:55:38 PM
For anybody who doesn't know who he is, he's a German/American lawyer who specialises in sueing people for fraud and he has successfully sued both Volkswagen and Deutch Bank. Just take a moment there to comprehend the power of the legal team that both of those companies would have - and he won both times.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 14, 2021, 02:07:57 PM
Put it in a vaguely relevant thread.
It was a retort to your rotten capitalism quip on the post before it.
Doesn't matter what thread it's in. What's relevant is that socialism is shit.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on July 14, 2021, 03:06:14 PM
It was a retort to your rotten capitalism quip on the post before it.
Doesn't matter what thread it's in. What's relevant is that socialism is shit.
Ah, I see. So sorry, your post
was relevant, but only in your gombeen perspective of the world where any criticism of any aspect of capitalism, regardless of how blatantly corrupt and broken, recognized as such even by many reform capitalists, is equivalent to advocacy for socialism. Far out bro.
Lads, quick question. Has anyone travelled to the UK from Ireland in the last few months? Any restrictions on entry?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 14, 2021, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on July 14, 2021, 03:06:14 PM
It was a retort to your rotten capitalism quip on the post before it.
Doesn't matter what thread it's in. What's relevant is that socialism is shit.
Ah, I see. So sorry, your post was relevant, but only in your gombeen perspective of the world where any criticism of any aspect of capitalism, regardless of how blatantly corrupt and broken, recognized as such even by many reform capitalists, is equivalent to advocacy for socialism. Far out bro.
Capitalism needs a right old tweek, no doubt about that but you can shove socialism right up your hoop lad.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on July 14, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Lads, quick question. Has anyone travelled to the UK from Ireland in the last few months? Any restrictions on entry?
Stay in Spain lad.
Tests and isolation, at your expense. Not sure of the details but the test alone is £100 plus, unless you can blag an NHS one.
According to this, a test is not required. I'm not returning to Ireland, I'll be going to Spain.
https://www.dfa.ie/travel/travel-advice/a-z-list-of-countries/great-britain/
I'm fully vaccinated and I have the passport thing so I can reenter Spain without a hitch.
https://www.google.es/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/ny2ya4/flying_to_uk_with_ryanair/
This thread seems to suggest that it's no questions asked Ireland to UK, bar lying about where I'm coming from.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 14, 2021, 01:02:14 PM
Don't have time to look through all that stuff, but will read through that Nature article. The state of intellectual property as it relates to fundamental research is an absolute mess. It's one of the most flagrant manifestations of all that is rotten about the structure of the capitalism we have.
Just noticed that cases in the Netherlands have jumped 500% since they scrapped all restrictions a couple of weeks ago, with daily case rate almost at the same level as mid-winter past. So far, only a small related increase in hospitalizations, and no noticeable increase in mortality, although both of those things drag by up to 4 weeks behind case increases, so we'll see. They've already rolled back on a lot of the restrictions they dropped though, based on the increase in cases. If those cases don't translate to significant hospitalizations and mortality, it may be what the UK need in order to say, "We were wrong first time, but maybe now that the vulnerable are vaccinated, we can let the cases rip and go for herd immunity." The counter-argument, which I've heard a few times, is this "long-COVID" thing. Sure, we'll see. Either way, this spike in cases is fairly impressive:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/netherlands/
The Netherlands is interesting in that it does exactly what I expected and the testing has ramped up at a similar scale to the cases. The positivity rate has also risen though and the majority of cases are claimed as Alpha variant. It's interesting, must keep an eye on it. https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/positief-geteste-mensen. What are the bets this sudden rise leads to some sort of vaccination passport?
Anyway that patent thing in nature seems to be somewhat related to what the chap in the video is saying, so it's also interesting timing but coincidental for now.
Quote from: pete on July 14, 2021, 02:18:31 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 13, 2021, 10:04:33 PM
Far as I know he was most heavily involved in the bank, having worked for them. I suppose it would have to be news reports from the time, but I'd be surprised if any reports went into any detail of the actual trial lawyers involved, although as I said nobody has refuted his claims and it seems to be accepted as fact.
I think we can do better than that.
I think we need to be more critical of these stories before spreading them. It all seems to originate from his own content and random Facebook posts.
I'm filing it with the Simon Harris video for now!
In what way are you filing it with the Simon Harris video? Are you saying Harris didn't use the WEF slogan? He did. So did Leo Varadkar, Paschal Donohue, Stephen Donnelly and Micheal Martin. I don't know what that gets filed with but it certainly happened.
Had to struggle to find Fuellmich but I got there in the end. Found this site from Goldman Morganstern and Partners which has several mentions of him working on the Deutsche Bank case. Here's the link to what I found https://www.gomopa.net/Finanzforum/index.php?form=Search&searchID=3804568&highlight=fuellmich and I used google to translate what pieces I could see without registering (it appears I have to be connected to a law firm to register, but there's enough mention there. Also note the dates on the site. All from years ago so nothing recent or covid related) and he indeed checks out as the lawyer. Indeed it isn't surprising he isn't all over the internet really as he'd have been of little interest to anyone outside of legal circles.
Hope that confirms it for you. You can use the translate yourself. Actually not to be a cunt about it, here's one example from 18.9.2012:
Quoteinjured parties report that Deutsche Bank would not have been willing to negotiate or settle, but insisted on the unrestricted fulfillment of its credit claims. An experience that the Göttingen lawyer Reiner Fuellmich confirms. In the film, he describes his almost twenty years of observations in hundreds of processes involving junk real estate with Deutsche Bank: "The only bank that has so far been completely ruthless, both in terms of sales and ...
Quote from: Caomhaoin on July 14, 2021, 03:43:44 PM
Lads, quick question. Has anyone travelled to the UK from Ireland in the last few months? Any restrictions on entry?
I know a fella who has been heading to Belfast and from there to London many times over the last year and he says there's not a question asked on the way between here and Belfast or Belfast and London.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 14, 2021, 04:38:33 PM
Had to struggle to find Fuellmich but I got there in the end. Found this site from Goldman Morganstern and Partners which has several mentions of him working on the Deutsche Bank case. Here's the link to what I found https://www.gomopa.net/Finanzforum/index.php?form=Search&searchID=3804568&highlight=fuellmich and I used google to translate what pieces I could see without registering (it appears I have to be connected to a law firm to register, but there's enough mention there. Also note the dates on the site. All from years ago so nothing recent or covid related) and he indeed checks out as the lawyer. Indeed it isn't surprising he isn't all over the internet really as he'd have been of little interest to anyone outside of legal circles.
Excellent, I will take a look. Thanks.
Shove your confinement fines. Bravo la constitución..
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0714/1234960-global-covid-1407/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/13/vaccine-passport-firm-says-system-could-redeployed-national/
Imagine that! A real turn up for the books. God, Imagine if every other country in Europe started to get the same idea at once... we'd be... oh... wait a sec...
Seriously now, I have a question for everyone.
Does anybody here think this is all still above board, and if so, where did you get the lobotomy and do you reckon the severing of the connections to your prefrontal cortex will help you to ignore how ridiculously totalitarian and absolutely fucking stupid the world has all gone at once? Asking because if it's cheap and effective enough I might get the lobotomy as well.
Here fuck it, while I'm at it.. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/sydney-s-lockdown-extended-as-delta-variant-takes-hold-1.4620261
Can anybody tell me why, in spite of how absolutely fantastic and world leading that Australia has been from day one, closing points of entry, locking down at the drop of a hat etc are they now in the same stupid Delta bullshit as the rest of the world? With all of their strict controls..?
Can the same person who explains that one then tell me why we are hearing nothing of the current apocalypse happening in Florida, Texas, Missouri, Sweden and fuck knows where else in the world? There are places open and everything is as normal. Lots of places, in lots of different climates and with lots of different stupid rules and none of it makes a blind bit of difference. Cases cases cases, test test test.
someone here other than me has to be following the science surely
For the moment, that's the firm who makes it saying that. Guinness used to advertise itself as being "good for you" (and maybe it is!), and so did tobacco companies (less likely!). For the moment...for the moment, this is just a firm doing what firms do.
Kind of unrelated, and apologies if you've already said something on it that I didn't see, but do you personally think there is a link between the vaccination program and the fact that this new "wave" doesn't seem to be leading to an increase in hospitalizations and deaths?
Edit: double post
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 15, 2021, 12:39:57 AM
For the moment, that's the firm who makes it saying that. Guinness used to advertise itself as being "good for you" (and maybe it is!), and so did tobacco companies (less likely!). For the moment...for the moment, this is just a firm doing what firms do.
Kind of unrelated, and apologies if you've already said something on it that I didn't see, but do you personally think there is a link between the vaccination program and the fact that this new "wave" doesn't seem to be leading to an increase in hospitalizations and deaths?
Yes, I think there is a definite link between the two.
Correlation always equals causation, doesn't it?
Ha, aye. Sure, it could be some think that hospitals are admitting less people to make the vaccination program look good, or attributing less deaths to COVID than before for the same reason, and so on. I was asking if you think there is a genuine causal medical link between the vaccination program and the relative lack of increase in hospitalizations and mortality compared to rise in cases, in say the UK or the Netherlands.
QuoteCan anybody tell me why, in spite of how absolutely fantastic and world leading that Australia has been from day one, closing points of entry, locking down at the drop of a hat etc are they now in the same stupid Delta bullshit as the rest of the world? With all of their strict controls..?
Would it be possibly due to the Delta variant being what epidemiologists say it is (i.e. being far more transmissible), coupled with the fact that only 10% of Australia's population are vaccinated? Maybe, just maybe.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 15, 2021, 01:22:07 AM
Ha, aye. Sure, it could be some think that hospitals are admitting less people to make the vaccination program look good, or attributing less deaths to COVID than before for the same reason, and so on. I was asking if you think there is a genuine causal medical link between the vaccination program and the relative lack of increase in hospitalizations and mortality compared to rise in cases, in say the UK or the Netherlands.
I'd like to think that there is a definite link between vaccination of the vulnerable and the lack of deaths, and so far it seems so. I'm sort of reserving judgement until another winter passes but I genuinely do hope the vaccines do the trick. My suspicion is that it will be like the flu shot, and work better some years than others but due to the new mRNA technology, I might be way off with that. This is also why I think this is not above board because if the vulnerable are not dying or turning up in ICU, then why compel everyone to take something. We are in common cold territory with the Delta version.
Quote from: Nazgûl on July 15, 2021, 08:06:46 AM
QuoteCan anybody tell me why, in spite of how absolutely fantastic and world leading that Australia has been from day one, closing points of entry, locking down at the drop of a hat etc are they now in the same stupid Delta bullshit as the rest of the world? With all of their strict controls..?
Would it be possibly due to the Delta variant being what epidemiologists say it is (i.e. being far more transmissible), coupled with the fact that only 10% of Australia's population are vaccinated? Maybe, just maybe.
How did India get over the Delta? I'd be in more of a mind that the NPIs do fuck all and are a pure shot in the dark. Even epidemiologists don't know anything about the efficacy of lockdowns, because they have simply never been tried before. Also the method of transmission is still being debated in scientific circles and is so far unknown.
It's also worth reading up on the crew who caught covid in Antarctica and the ones who tested positive after weeks at sea. I feel like the answer to the Australia question might be found somewhere like that. Oh and Australia also run their test at such a high ct value that most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise.
And I also have to remind you that vaccinations have no bearing on case counts, so it isn't that.
Edit: Look! See! https://twitter.com/MrMBrown/status/1415280353615429640 It isn't really the twitter comment, the source is there. But just look at the quote. This was predictable. No one escapes the takeover.
QuoteAustralia also run their test at such a high ct value that most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise.
https://covidlive.com.au/report/positive-test-rate
That's not a lot of noise. If my aim was to produce noise, I'd want a helluva lot more of it than 0.14%. Like Victoria are doing
okay at 0.27% noise they can pass off as positive cases, but NSW, geez, they really need to up their game at only 0.09%!
You really need to drop the ct value argument. Neither you, nor I, nor most certainly the people who have sold you on the idea, know enough of what they're talking about to be reliable sources.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 15, 2021, 11:30:36 PM
QuoteAustralia also run their test at such a high ct value that most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise.
https://covidlive.com.au/report/positive-test-rate
That's not a lot of noise. If my aim was to produce noise, I'd want a helluva lot more of it than 0.14%. Like Victoria are doing okay at 0.27% noise they can pass off as positive cases, but NSW, geez, they really need to up their game at only 0.09%!
You really need to drop the ct value argument. Neither you, nor I, nor most certainly the people who have sold you on the idea, know enough of what they're talking about to be reliable sources.
I've been following Kevin McKernan https://www.medicinalgenomics.com/team/kevin-mckernan/ of the Cannabis Genome Project for the layman's take, along with Professor Stephen Bustin https://aru.ac.uk/people/stephen-bustin for the slightly more adventurous stuff. Do you reckon either of these lads might have a clue what they are talking about, or are we playing top trumps? You hardly think I'm getting this shit from Gemma O'Doherty do you?
I'm not handicapped.
Edit: Have you somehow misunderstood what I meant by noise? If I amplify something a few Trillion (Yes, TRILLION) times, it might become difficult to differentiate between the signal and the noise don't you think?
Here: "Generally, when a Ct value is obtained, the specimen tested is deemed to be positive. Recently, however, there is an increasing tendency among laboratory operators to consider as negative (i.e., false-positive) any Ct values above an arbitrary cutoff value. It is assumed that the high Ct value is generated by degradation of the probe-based fluorophore by cross contamination or by nonspecific amplification of background nucleic acids."
Source (from 2011): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/104063871102300102
I thought we were following the science around here.....
Do you get what I mean by noise now, or do I have it wrong? Do you still think we should drop the ct value argument? What have you got there to explain it to me better? Seriously do you not see it yet?
Here be the depths to which we have descended.... https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1415638860726509572
I don't give a fuck how much anyone does or doesn't buy into the modern era, but does nobody see anything wrong with this tweet, from the health correspondent of our national broadcaster, our Beloved Leader RTE?
QuoteTánaiste Leo Varadkar tells the Dail that the pandemic is far from over, and advised unvaccinated people they are very high risk, at greater risk than ever before, and should treat the current situation as seriously as they ever did.
YES THIS IS FINE.
Interesting Lancet report out re impact on younger people up to 39 with no previous underlying issues, despite it being a cold apparently
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0716/1235436-covid-complications-study/
My brother in law's heart is messed up since contacting covid through work at the start of the year as one chamber is working at a different rate for some reason. Life long meds are what the doc is suggesting to regularise things. He's in late 40's though so not really relevant to the study above.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 15, 2021, 02:47:47 PM
Australia also run their test at such a high ct value that most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise.
This is the claim you made. So sure, the chance of noise increases with the sensitivity of the test and the sensitivity increases with the number of cycles. BUT, nothing about those facts allows you per se to say that "most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise." Scientifically speaking, that claim is HUGE, and I'm not seeing the science to back it up. I'm seeing a lot of general claims about the biomechanics of PCR tests, but I'm not seeing anything that actually studies the positive results and concludes, based on analysis of these positive samples, that significantly more than 50% (i.e. "most) can be dismissed as noise.
Here's a satirically head-lined article high-lighting how noise amplification is something that exists everywhere...including in inter-human communication:
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking/covid-19-pcr-test-reliable-despite-commotion-about-ct-values
Should cycle thresholds be set lower? Sure, maybe, I dunno, in any case I'm not an expert. But can most positive cases be dismissed as noise? That
specific claim requires targeted scientific backing I haven't yet seen anywhere.
I am on board with challenging governments over their response to the situation though. I saw this the other day, and can only commend this Michael McNamara for his articulate argumentation. I know nothing about him though, so apologies if he's articulate here but a drooling loony on social media:
https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMcNamaraTD/posts/4677253715637461
Quote from: Snare on July 16, 2021, 08:33:16 AM
Interesting Lancet report out re impact on younger people up to 39 with no previous underlying issues, despite it being a cold apparently
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0716/1235436-covid-complications-study/
My brother in law's heart is messed up since contacting covid through work at the start of the year as one chamber is working at a different rate for some reason. Life long meds are what the doc is suggesting to regularise things. He's in late 40's though so not really relevant to the study above.
I've done some training stuff with one of the principal authors of that study, and in neuroscience at least she's a force to be reckoned with. I'm not going to give my thoughts on long COVID, because they're just thoughts, but the study does highlight again that merely totting up deaths is not, as the COVID skeptics implicitly insist, the only bottom line here.
Quote from: Snare on July 16, 2021, 08:33:16 AM
Interesting Lancet report out re impact on younger people up to 39 with no previous underlying issues, despite it being a cold apparently
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0716/1235436-covid-complications-study/
My brother in law's heart is messed up since contacting covid through work at the start of the year as one chamber is working at a different rate for some reason. Life long meds are what the doc is suggesting to regularise things. He's in late 40's though so not really relevant to the study above.
Funnily enough my father in law's heart is doing the same thing since taking the vaccine, as well as my friend's father. Probably unrelated as they are both in their 60s but it's as you describe, with one chamber being inflamed and going at a different rate with the heart alternately racing and slowing down, but none of the usual signs of a heart attack.
I've been looking at some things about long covid as well and a lot of different people are claiming several different types of cures for that. I've seen several things saying that the Ivermectin helps with long covid but I'd be skeptical about that because like all things touted as a potential cure, only time will tell if there is anything in it. There is some other group of doctors looking into long covid who believe they have a combination of things like steroids and antibiotics which gets rid of it as well. I can go back and dig out some of this stuff if you have any interest but I'm not claiming that anyone has a cure for long covid (and I don't doubt it's a thing) but I like reading about potentially positive things instead of constant misery so I don't mind finding a few links if you like.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 16, 2021, 09:15:12 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on July 15, 2021, 02:47:47 PM
Australia also run their test at such a high ct value that most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise.
This is the claim you made. So sure, the chance of noise increases with the sensitivity of the test and the sensitivity increases with the number of cycles. BUT, nothing about those facts allows you per se to say that "most of the positive results could be dismissed as noise." Scientifically speaking, that claim is HUGE, and I'm not seeing the science to back it up. I'm seeing a lot of general claims about the biomechanics of PCR tests, but I'm not seeing anything that actually studies the positive results and concludes, based on analysis of these positive samples, that significantly more than 50% (i.e. "most) can be dismissed as noise.
Here's a satirically head-lined article high-lighting how noise amplification is something that exists everywhere...including in inter-human communication:
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking/covid-19-pcr-test-reliable-despite-commotion-about-ct-values
Should cycle thresholds be set lower? Sure, maybe, I dunno, in any case I'm not an expert. But can most positive cases be dismissed as noise? That specific claim requires targeted scientific backing I haven't yet seen anywhere.
You're right there, because the values are not published with the results in most places. Florida does it but I don't know of other places. Even the WHO clinical guidance says that positive results obtained over about ct30 should be considered along with clinical symptoms and in the absence of same should be confirmed with a second, and preferably different test. As far as I know, each test comes with its' own recommended ct value and some recommend up to 45, which is far too high to judge anything on. Pre test probability is a big thing, too, which is to say false positives are not a guarantee but far more likely in a situation of low prevalence. So unless someone starts publishing the values at which they find the positive results, the absolute numbers should be taken with a pinch of salt. Only testing people with actual symptoms would soon put paid to a massive amount of cases and bring the fear factor down a few notches, but you are technically right to pull me up on the wording there. I should have said "could possibly be"
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 16, 2021, 09:35:21 AM
I am on board with challenging governments over their response to the situation though. I saw this the other day, and can only commend this Michael McNamara for his articulate argumentation. I know nothing about him though, so apologies if he's articulate here but a drooling loony on social media:
https://www.facebook.com/MichaelMcNamaraTD/posts/4677253715637461
Quote from: Snare on July 16, 2021, 08:33:16 AM
Interesting Lancet report out re impact on younger people up to 39 with no previous underlying issues, despite it being a cold apparently
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0716/1235436-covid-complications-study/
My brother in law's heart is messed up since contacting covid through work at the start of the year as one chamber is working at a different rate for some reason. Life long meds are what the doc is suggesting to regularise things. He's in late 40's though so not really relevant to the study above.
I've done some training stuff with one of the principal authors of that study, and in neuroscience at least she's a force to be reckoned with. I'm not going to give my thoughts on long COVID, because they're just thoughts, but the study does highlight again that merely totting up deaths is not, as the COVID skeptics implicitly insist, the only bottom line here.
Michael McNamara is a very rational and balanced chap who seems only to want to question the response of the government rather than simply agitate. He headed the Dail committee on the covid response and despite the recommendations made, the government ignored every single one. He's a decent chap all the same.
Ted Cruz pandering to the glut of anti-vaxxers in his state a couple of months ago:
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1398269941242077186
And now blaming a rise in cases there, not on their comparatively low vaccination rate, but rather on...no prizes for guessing...immigration!
https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1415401043291148289
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 17, 2021, 12:03:21 AM
Ted Cruz pandering to the glut of anti-vaxxers in his state a couple of months ago:
https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1398269941242077186
And now blaming a rise in cases there, not on their comparatively low vaccination rate, but rather on...no prizes for guessing...immigration!
https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1415401043291148289
Idiots will remain idiots no matter what. I feel like I should pull you up on the language used though, as the term anti-vaxxer is a load of bollix for the most part. I don't eat human (yet) but I'm not a vegetarian. My kids have all of their regular shots got and it was me that brought them for them. Everyone and their dog knows that there is decent evidence for vaccinations working and yet many don't trust the latest batch. Are they all anti vaxxers? Use your brain. I know you have one.
I've an honest question for you. Where would the cases be without the test? This whole illusion is based on the test which in so many ways is built on a foundation of sand, and if you like I would love to discuss why, but everyone runs a mile from the elephant in the room so I suppose we'll have to go on arguing the toss over the other finer points instead. The trick to all of this is the test though.
I hate the term "anti-vaxer". It's usually used to discredit somebody for saying something that people don't want to hear. And then getting lumped in with the 5g, tin foil hats and lizard people shite.
There's absolutely noting wrong with being hesitant of wanting to take a trial vaccine that has been rushed out which, in my opinion, wasn't rushed out to "save lives" but to make $$$$.
Doesn't mean I don't believe in vaccinations.
I don't watch the news, but is anybody talking about how some families are being nazi cunts towards other family members that won't get the vaccine?
A friend of mine is fairly vocal about not wanting the vaccine on her social media, she's getting a lot of messages from people who are being outcast by their families. They are not allowed to visit their parents, their brothers/sisters or nephews/nieces, and are generally being treated like some sort of criminal because they don't want the vaccine.
Some have been denied access to family gatherings, birthdays, weddings and funerals, EVEN if they volunteer to sit outside like a leper and wear a mask at all times.
Disgusting behaviour.
Ted Cruz was pandering to anti-vaxxers long before COVID appeared.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 17, 2021, 02:29:31 AM
I've an honest question for you. Where would the cases be without the test? This whole illusion is based on the test which in so many ways is built on a foundation of sand, and if you like I would love to discuss why, but everyone runs a mile from the elephant in the room so I suppose we'll have to go on arguing the toss over the other finer points instead. The trick to all of this is the test though.
Ask yourself this: when cases increase, in the UK, in the Netherlands, wherever, after a long slump, what is it that brings people to
go to get tested? You say the test is the trick to all of this, but in saying that you negate the free agency of the individuals who decide, either because they are feeling unwell or because they have been in contact with someone who was, to go and get tested. And then you always say, "Ah yes, there's been an increase in cases, but also an increase in testing!" as if some secret causation has been uncovered. The secret is this: the more people who go to get tested, the more testing is done.
Edit: Thinking about it, maybe you think most of the testing is forced upon people by work obligations and the like...? I don't know, in the people around me, in research and at the hospital, that doesn't seem to be the case, but I guess it's an argument that can always be fallen back on and would be very difficult to disprove.
Quote from: Giggles on July 17, 2021, 08:30:21 AM
I don't watch the news, but is anybody talking about how some families are being nazi cunts towards other family members that won't get the vaccine?
A friend of mine is fairly vocal about not wanting the vaccine on her social media, she's getting a lot of messages from people who are being outcast by their families. They are not allowed to visit their parents, their brothers/sisters or nephews/nieces, and are generally being treated like some sort of criminal because they don't want the vaccine.
Some have been denied access to family gatherings, birthdays, weddings and funerals, EVEN if they volunteer to sit outside like a leper and wear a mask at all times.
Disgusting behaviour.
Noticed quite a bit of that myself.
If you want to get it great, if not I couldn't give a shit either.
Didn't the government say at the start that they wouldn't make people take the vaccine and now they are pretty much saying you can't do anything unless you do get it.
I'm not a fan of that.
Yet protesters - as usual - get labelled as anti-vax loons. The problem in this country is the complete apathy we have towards incompetent governance and the condemnation of any type of protesting.
The likes of Gemma O Doherty and Dolores Cahill are doing no favours for our image either.
Quote from: Giggles on July 17, 2021, 08:30:21 AM
I don't watch the news, but is anybody talking about how some families are being nazi cunts towards other family members that won't get the vaccine?
A friend of mine is fairly vocal about not wanting the vaccine on her social media, she's getting a lot of messages from people who are being outcast by their families. They are not allowed to visit their parents, their brothers/sisters or nephews/nieces, and are generally being treated like some sort of criminal because they don't want the vaccine.
Some have been denied access to family gatherings, birthdays, weddings and funerals, EVEN if they volunteer to sit outside like a leper and wear a mask at all times.
Disgusting behaviour.
Another way of looking at this is that those ostracizing the unvaccinated are only doing it out of an equally poor understanding of the science as those who refuse to get vaccinated. In that respect, it's two sides of the same coin.
Quote from: Giggles on July 17, 2021, 10:44:44 AM
The likes of Gemma O Doherty and Dolores Cahill are doing no favours for our image either.
Can you name a few others?
Apparently test positivity rate in the Netherlands at the moment is 15%, and there's a backlog in testing since the peak came in at such a vertical rate the labs didn't have time to upscale to greet it. Another element to put the lie to the idea that it's testing that drives the case rate up. Small but significant increase in hospitalizations in the last few days, but it'll be from the next few days onward that the now well-characterized time lag from the start of a case surge to its related serious condition surge will be caught up. So far, most of those hospitalized (one would imagine, having directed themselves to the hospital) have been unvaccinated, similar to what's being seen in the US.
Israel is a bit different, but the news is overall fairly positive
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/for-first-time-since-march-855-new-coronavirus-cases-in-israel-674084
Probably a new thread for this next bit, a WTF thread!
Apologies in advance if this is too much to consume atm, not wishing to draw attention away from this thread but rather highlight how it connects.
Believe it or not, this will either happen or it wont (high hopes it wont) It appears the corona will be taking a backseat in the news to the next stress, that is, the cyber virus attack. As foretold by the rather insightful head of the wef back in Jan 2021.
Last July 9th 2021 the wef Cyber Polygon event was held , a simulation of an uber cyber attack in real time etc a private invitation only , no plebs, only billionaires, and trillionaires shoulder to shoulder.
https://cyberpolygon.com/
https://sociable.co/government-and-policy/cyber-polygon-great-reset-centralized-power-surveillance/
A long slow talk but might be insightful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUhHDUVBYhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOvz1Flfrfw&t=402s
They have been discussing it for some time now , with little tidbits here and there, and its becoming more repetitive.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/09/our-cities-are-increasingly-vulnerable-to-cyberattacks-heres-how-they-can-fight-back/
Computing Forever did a recent overlook on this, afew may disagree with his conclusions
https://computingforever.com/2021/05/22/the-cyber-attack-narrative-is-underway/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/PCWxsGc2MynB/
Just a quick mainstream example here of how widespread its been of recent, I‘m sure more folks will find better examples to share
https://www.kratikal.com/blog/10-major-cyber-attacks-witnessed-globally-in-q1-2021/
And this is quite a background read that ties into the Cyber Polygon
https://unlimitedhangout.com/2021/06/investigative-reports/a-leap-toward-humanitys-destruction/
I've been flagging this one for a while now but I'm the loony conspiracy theorist of the board so nobody believes me anyway. Just like Event 201, Cyber Polygon is basically telling everyone what is coming next, and still most wouldn't believe it, despite being told straight up.
There's going to be a lot of coincidences coming, but for now they will probably be better placed in the conspiracies thread. I'll get a read of that stuff you've posted there all the same as I like a good horror story
Anyone who can listen to Dave Cullen talking for more than 90 seconds deserves a medal.
I'd be interested in commentary on it from someone not quite so stereotypical an incarnation of the alt-right. And we can just write that up to being a preference of style, if you like.
I had to go look up Alt-right and I don't think he fits the bill. Can understand people not liking the cut of his jib though because I don't myself a lot of the time.
I find he is often pointing out things that deserve to be looked at, but comes to very different conclusions than I would myself looking at the same things.
Alt-right sounds like a cheap way to dismiss it all though. You really do nail yourself to the leftist side of things against all reason at times. Not particularly this time but I dunno how anyone could stand for the left or right stuff these days. They're both stupid.
He's literally the right wing analog of what any of you would dismiss as being "woke", way more "woke" than anything I'd even share. The mirror of that level of woke is what is referred to as the alt-right. He's like an Irish Milo. Maybe we could call him Miley.
Well, speak of the devil... and the devil will start watching you:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/revealed-leak-uncovers-global-abuse-of-cyber-surveillance-weapon-nso-group-pegasus
I should have added these quotes earlier to tie it together. And I´ll leave it at that for here ,as right now this is not fitting for the conspiracy thread , 12 years ago though, it would have had a cosy spot there.
"History shows that epidemics have been the great resetter of countries' economy and social fabric. Why should it be different with COVID-19?"
― Klaus Schwab, COVID-19: The Great Reset
"We will see how contact tracing has an unequalled capacity and a quasi-essential place in the armoury needed to combat COVID-19, while at the same time being positioned to become an enabler of mass surveillance."
― Klaus Schwab, COVID-19: The Great Reset
"It is true that in the post-pandemic era, personal health and well-being will become a much greater priority for society, which is why the genie of tech surveillance will not be put back into the bottle. But it is for those who govern and each of us personally to control and harness the benefits of technology without sacrificing our individual and collective values and freedoms."
― Klaus Schwab, COVID-19: The Great Reset
Last two lines are truly deceptive , the US and the OUR is not including the average Jim, Joe and Joan who is suffering at this time, or anyone of us who have struggled, its most likely the people who´ have benefited mega financially from the last 16 months and have invested in this so called reset with secret glee.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 18, 2021, 10:46:06 PM
He's literally the right wing analog of what any of you would dismiss as being "woke", way more "woke" than anything I'd even share. The mirror of that level of woke is what is referred to as the alt-right. He's like an Irish Milo. Maybe we could call him Miley.
Ok I get you now. As I said, both sides are stupid anyway, all that woke and based shite. It's your classic divide and conquer tactic. I just had him down as a conspiracy guy but maybe I haven't seen enough to know what it is he stands for beyond pointing out possible things like that.
Quote from: Ealaín on July 19, 2021, 01:11:13 AM
I should have added these quotes earlier to tie it together. And I´ll leave it at that for here ,as right now this is not fitting for the conspiracy thread , 12 years ago though, it would have had a cosy spot there.
"History shows that epidemics have been the great resetter of countries' economy and social fabric. Why should it be different with COVID-19?"
― Klaus Schwab, COVID-19: The Great Reset
"We will see how contact tracing has an unequalled capacity and a quasi-essential place in the armoury needed to combat COVID-19, while at the same time being positioned to become an enabler of mass surveillance."
― Klaus Schwab, COVID-19: The Great Reset
"It is true that in the post-pandemic era, personal health and well-being will become a much greater priority for society, which is why the genie of tech surveillance will not be put back into the bottle. But it is for those who govern and each of us personally to control and harness the benefits of technology without sacrificing our individual and collective values and freedoms."
― Klaus Schwab, COVID-19: The Great Reset
Last two lines are truly deceptive , the US and the OUR is not including the average Jim, Joe and Joan who is suffering at this time, or anyone of us who have struggled, its most likely the people who´ have benefited mega financially from the last 16 months and have invested in this so called reset with secret glee.
I'm fully with you on this, but apart from myself I don't think too many others here will be on board bar maybe a couple. I've given the last year or more calling it out on here but have been met with a lot of "nothing to see here, all coincidence, all above board" sort of responses. I'd be of the opinion that the covid is the ultimate Trojan horse. Not that it doesn't exist or anything but that the response has been tailor made to bring in this new era of surveillance and social control by consent. And y'know what, the vast majority are fucking lapping it up. It's also amazing how quickly old Klaus got that book written and published, it must have been pure train of thought stuff for him (or he had it at the ready for his minions well in advance).
In general though in this thread I'm trying to focus on the science element of things which is full of holes in itself.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E50dQO7XsAMUIOn?format=jpg&name=small)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/bill-gates-and-george-soros-join-buyout-of-uk-covid-testing-company
It goes wonderfully with this short clip of Gates on the profits of vaccination. https://twitter.com/heyproutler/status/1413216453831110661
Everybody should watch this at least once. In fact the audio should be blasted out on a loop over the tannoy at every vaccination centre or over a giant PA in the middle of every town.
That msn link isn't working.
As for that Gates clip, OMG, what a boob! Revealing his villainous selfish machinations like that on camera for a reporter from CNBC! Hmm, or could there be something more obvious amiss? Like maybe the clip is highly truncated and edited to make it appear unedited? Because if you watch the whole thing, in context (context, context, context!!!), it seems pretty clear that what he's referring to is overall global economic returns of 20-to-1 on investment in vaccination programmes, thanks to increased numbers of people participating in the economy (because not dead or dying), reduced post-illness recovery (prevention is cheaper than cure!), and so on and so forth:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2020872314697257
Bill Gates would not be the Bill Gates that you have been given the opportunity to demonize if he were fool enough to go on television and say, "I invest in vaccines because they make me personally super rich."
Here's a working link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2021/07/19/george-soros-and-bill-gates-backed-consortium-to-buy-uk-maker-of-covid-lateral-flow-tests-for-41-million/
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 19, 2021, 07:35:01 PM
That msn link isn't working.
As for that Gates clip, OMG, what a boob! Revealing his villainous selfish machinations like that on camera for a reporter from CNBC! Hmm, or could there be something more obvious amiss? Like maybe the clip is highly truncated and edited to make it appear unedited? Because if you watch the whole thing, in context (context, context, context!!!), it seems pretty clear that what he's referring to is overall global economic returns of 20-to-1 on investment in vaccination programmes, thanks to increased numbers of people participating in the economy (because not dead or dying), reduced post-illness recovery (prevention is cheaper than cure!), and so on and so forth:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2020872314697257
Bill Gates would not be the Bill Gates that you have been given the opportunity to demonize if he were fool enough to go on television and say, "I invest in vaccines because they make me personally super rich."
Ummmmmm, so multi billionaire "philantropist" investor pushes the absolute fuck out of vaccinations for everyone because he just wants to save everyone, right? The profit is nothing to do with it, I suppose. Look at his history with microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp. and now he is a changed man? You are not that fucking naive, as much as you wish to oppose my general worldview. The Gates stuff is like shooting fish in a barrel. Absolute shocker as massive profit lover loves massive profits!
Here's something you might find equally above board. Remember this is the man who has unprecedented influence over the WHO (Y'know, that shower who dictate world health policy) https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/ but of course he only does it because he cares so much, of course he does. This whole "nothing to see here" schtick is as bad as the 5G microwave bullshit. The answer is far more obvious than that. He wants to monopolise world health and it's as obvious as fuck.
Anyway: https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1417149624452882434 (This is from today, and probably the most unnerving thing I've seen in a while) "Enhance health surveillance & alert systems".
This is of course all perfectly fine and that nice man is doing so so much to help us all. Wonderful things like buying up all the farmland he can get with his astronomical profits https://www.vox.com/recode/22528659/bill-gates-largest-farmland-owner-cascade-investments so he can make sure we all have enough food and making sure none of us ever get sick again. Here's another from the man himself, I suppose this is also truncated and taken out of context... on December 19th 2019, after participating in Event 201 (with the WEF, no less!) https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/ and here's the Ministry of Truth Fact-Check version for you, too https://fullfact.org/health/event-201-coronavirus-pandemic/
https://twitter.com/billgates/status/1207681997612748801?lang=en
Context context context! Test test test! (Quoting Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, head of aforementioned WHO, who "was previously on the board of two organizations Gates founded, provided seed money for, and continues to fund to this day: GAVI and the Global Fund, where Tedros was chair of the board. Source: https://grain.org/en/article/6511-why-the-bill-gates-global-health-empire-promises-more-empire-and-less-public-health)
I suppose I'm the fucking dreaded Alt-Right now! For fuck's sake, I know you're arguing the toss but seriously.... No private individual should have this much control over world systems, it's a recipe for disaster. Does this put his comments in any better context for you?
Whatever Gates may actually be up to behind the scenes, and Christ only knows, he doesn't at all, in any way, reveal it in that public interview for CNBC. As I said, he never would have gotten to where he is today, in such a position that he can incarnate Satan for so many, were he the type of individual to let slip something like he is made out to in that heavily doctored 30 second clip. There's no point coming at me with a thousand links behind to show me that he is in fact Satan; the red horns in that 30-second clip are edited in, because it's clear as day that is not what he is talking about with the 20-to-1 schtick there.
And here is the text of the tweet it is posted in reply to:
QuoteIf you had 30 seconds to persuade someone that covid was a hoax and your life depended on it, what would be your most compelling argument? PCR tests? Asymptomatic transmission? Sweden? Something else?
So, if you had only 30 seconds to persuade someone that covid was a hoax and your life depended on it, this guy would post a heavily doctored and clearly misleading video from 2019?? Cool, that's definitely the camp I want to be in.
https://twitter.com/RichardQBevan/status/1294913252183375872
:laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on July 19, 2021, 08:45:50 PM
https://twitter.com/billgates/status/1207681997612748801?lang=en
Just scanning over the review of 2019 his tweet links there. At the very bottom of the page they talk about their plans for 2020, which are all very Africa centric, and it got me wondering about the fact that, on the one hand, Gates is very heavily involved in vaccination programmes there, polio, malaria, meningitis, ebola, etc., yet on the other hand, COVID vaccination on the African continent couldn't be any lower; only three states (including two tiny ones) have over 30%, while the majority, including South Africa, have less than 10%. Overall, less than 1% of the entire population has received both doses. Curious. Also curious to look into why specifically Morocco are so far ahead of their North African neighbours.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1221298/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-african-countries/
I totally agree, by the way, that Bill Gates has too much power, and he's had it for too long. I just don't think those 30 edited seconds in any way constitute any level of evidence or "proof" that COVID is a hoax.
Africa is getting less of the vaccines because Africa has less money to pay for them. The money will be made in Europe, Asia, America before bothering the bollix trying to make it from the poorest and already hardest raped nations on Earth. Basically if the Africans were to get fucked over by Covid they'd have done it by now. How do you reckon social distancing and lockdowns are working in the back arse of Africa? Or the testing for that matter
You know well that I'm not saying covid is a hoax and you're deflecting from the point I was making. The entire response to it and the reasoning behind that response pretty much constitutes a hoax though. The efficacy of NPIs is basically a hoax (take the most obvious one, - the masks - and try to show me something convincing that proves they work beyond a wing and a prayer or some anecdotal shit. It can't be done.). The efficacy of covid vaccines is still questionable as of now (might change, jury is out). As for Gates, it's obvious what's going on, and no matter what thread it came out of those 20 seconds can be taken in or out of any context and still be representational of the man describing his overall buzz in his own words. You'd have to be blind not to see it and it's not a theory either it's all out in the open. Would you reckon that during that tabletop exercise known as Event 201, to simulate a novel coronavirus pandemic and was held in late 2019, that the multi billionaire philantropist crowd and the stakeholder capitalist crowd might have thought a bit about how to secure their profits and status at the same time as thinking about how to save all the poor starving children in Africa? Nah, probably not, nothing to see here at all.
They certainly hadn't invested in any potential response to a sudden and worldwide coronavirus outbreak that they funded the disaster modelling for and definitely didn't lobby for or try in any way to influence said response which entirely suited their own needs either. Sure that wouldn't enter their multi billionaire heads at all. These are the good guys after all, trying their best to make sure we never get sick again and that our big brother is always watching out for our health and safety and other nice things like that. Because they care and they love us and it's for own good and it puts the lotion in the basket and it rubs the lotion on its' skin and it behaves or it gets the lockdowns again and it won't be let in to buy things in places.
World health surveillance monopoly. World disease prevention monopoly. World health recommendations monopoly. World health research monopoly. World food monopoly. World climate control monopoly. The sky's the limit for this (admittedly very business savvy) person. Now in light of the last few points, read Ursula von der Leyen's tweet again:
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1417149624452882434
Pay special attention to the last bit which answers your Africa concerns for you.. it's on the way. The Africans will also need to be watched and vaccinated in due course once the wealth transfer is complete for the rest of the world.
Jesus Christ the ranting is something else there.
Remember how incensed KC got over that iron cross photoshopped onto a runner on some random blog? Because it was misrepresenting by exaggeration the fact that you can indeed buy far right items of clothing on-line (not that that was at all surprising). Now, what do you think the reaction would have been if instead of our resident Scooby-Doo presenting it gotcha-style, it had been me who shared it claiming that it was "proof" that the far right were in fact something to be concerned about? I'd have been rightly laughed out of it, and the photoshopped iron cross would have been made an even bigger deal of. Well, that's what you did with that 30 second clip of Bill Gates. It's the kind of thing that a trial could collapse over even if everyone knew the accused was definitely up to something dodgy.
Does no one else find it absolutely relentless at the moment? You can't turn left or right without being confronted with things taken out of context but presented as concrete, immutable fact, whether that be anti-COVID measures or pro-COVID measures, anti-mRNA vaccine or pro-mRNA vaccine, anti-Republican or pro-Republican, anti-woke or pro-woke. Relentless.
Start out with the presumption that every cunt with an agenda, whatever that may be, is lying to you, whether they know it or not. The guy who edited that video of Gates, maybe he genuinely thought that Gates had just come out and publicly declared that he invested in vaccines primarily for personal profit, in the same way that people listen to Jordan Peterson and come away genuinely convinced that he's a fascist. In which case, what harm in just cutting out all the surrounding blahblah and leaving only what you're convinced he's saying anyway. The only problem, is that it isn't what he declared, it just semantically is not the message he communicated, however secretly cunningly he may have been hiding his real agenda, in the 10 minute interview.
So while anyone else predisposed to hating Gates (and why not!) will say, "Well, he may not have said it here, but it's what he thinks!" (reminds me of a trick Stewart Lee played on his audience once), others will look it up, see that it's an utterly misleading representation, and then, from that point on, they'll naturally tend to presume anything else coming from that source is likely also bullshit. This is exactly the point Scooby-snaKC was trying to make about the photoshopped shoe, except in that case it was just a total nobody writing a blog piece about a couple of online merch stores. Here though, the story you're getting at, if I've understood correctly, is that Gates - through the huge influence he has within the WHO, signaled and critiqued long before COVID arrived - has been guiding the WHO's COVID rhetoric and response in a bid to consolidate even more control over the future of global health surveillance. That's a little bit more serious than a photoshopped shoe, so try to keep the obvious bullshit out of it, even or rather especially if it seems like a gift-wrapped gotcha. And that means paying attention to context: the fact that video was tweeted as an answer to the question, "How would you convince someone COVID is a hoax?" is an enormous red flag that what's coming has a high chance of being bullshit. And, hop, it was! Even if you think you can prove that 30 second edit is a better representation of what Gates actually thinks, it's still not what he said in that interview. It'd be like chopping together the words "I killed that woman" from ten minutes of audio of someone you're convinced is a murderer and presenting the audio montage as a confession.
And that Stewart Lee piece, for comic relief...you'll have to wait til the last 20 seconds or so to get to the exact bit I was talking about, but it's worth it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj2LcKdRU0o
EDIT - Made an arse of the quote function. The following is Astfgyl's quote.........
*****************************
I'm fully with you on this, but apart from myself I don't think too many others here will be on board bar maybe a couple. I've given the last year or more calling it out on here but have been met with a lot of "nothing to see here, all coincidence, all above board" sort of responses. I'd be of the opinion that the covid is the ultimate Trojan horse. Not that it doesn't exist or anything but that the response has been tailor made to bring in this new era of surveillance and social control by consent. And y'know what, the vast majority are fucking lapping it up. It's also amazing how quickly old Klaus got that book written and published, it must have been pure train of thought stuff for him (or he had it at the ready for his minions well in advance).
In general though in this thread I'm trying to focus on the science element of things which is full of holes in itself.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E50dQO7XsAMUIOn?format=jpg&name=small)
[/quote]
Well I wouldn't be saying "it's all above board, nothing to see here".
What I've said is that it's always been like this. Those in power (sometimes benevolent, often not) have been controlling and exploiting the multitude since the dawn of civilisation. They just do it in different ways as the eras change.
It's as if you think we live in some age of freedom and goodness and truth that's about to be taken from us. And that by seeing the changes that are going on in front of our eyes and calling them out we are going to be able to somehow resist and maintain our land of milk and honey.
The strong will continue to dominate the weak. Nothing fundamental is changing. I would still prefer the current and future enslavement to most/all examples from the past.
While there is a fundamental truth in what Grimm Reality says it must be acknowledged that the tools of surveillance and control available to the "strong" have never been as potent as those currently at their disposal.
The leash around the neck of the "weak", held tightly in the iron fist of the "strong", is getting shorter by the day.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 20, 2021, 10:07:59 AM
Remember how incensed KC got over that iron cross photoshopped onto a runner on some random blog? Because it was misrepresenting by exaggeration the fact that you can indeed buy far right items of clothing on-line (not that that was at all surprising). Now, what do you think the reaction would have been if instead of our resident Scooby-Doo presenting it gotcha-style, it had been me who shared it claiming that it was "proof" that the far right were in fact something to be concerned about? I'd have been rightly laughed out of it, and the photoshopped iron cross would have been made an even bigger deal of. Well, that's what you did with that 30 second clip of Bill Gates. It's the kind of thing that a trial could collapse over even if everyone knew the accused was definitely up to something dodgy.
Does no one else find it absolutely relentless at the moment? You can't turn left or right without being confronted with things taken out of context but presented as concrete, immutable fact, whether that be anti-COVID measures or pro-COVID measures, anti-mRNA vaccine or pro-mRNA vaccine, anti-Republican or pro-Republican, anti-woke or pro-woke. Relentless.
Start out with the presumption that every cunt with an agenda, whatever that may be, is lying to you, whether they know it or not. The guy who edited that video of Gates, maybe he genuinely thought that Gates had just come out and publicly declared that he invested in vaccines primarily for personal profit, in the same way that people listen to Jordan Peterson and come away genuinely convinced that he's a fascist. In which case, what harm in just cutting out all the surrounding blahblah and leaving only what you're convinced he's saying anyway. The only problem, is that it isn't what he declared, it just semantically is not the message he communicated, however secretly cunningly he may have been hiding his real agenda, in the 10 minute interview.
So while anyone else predisposed to hating Gates (and why not!) will say, "Well, he may not have said it here, but it's what he thinks!" (reminds me of a trick Stewart Lee played on his audience once), others will look it up, see that it's an utterly misleading representation, and then, from that point on, they'll naturally tend to presume anything else coming from that source is likely also bullshit. This is exactly the point Scooby-snaKC was trying to make about the photoshopped shoe, except in that case it was just a total nobody writing a blog piece about a couple of online merch stores. Here though, the story you're getting at, if I've understood correctly, is that Gates - through the huge influence he has within the WHO, signaled and critiqued long before COVID arrived - has been guiding the WHO's COVID rhetoric and response in a bid to consolidate even more control over the future of global health surveillance. That's a little bit more serious than a photoshopped shoe, so try to keep the obvious bullshit out of it, even or rather especially if it seems like a gift-wrapped gotcha. And that means paying attention to context: the fact that video was tweeted as an answer to the question, "How would you convince someone COVID is a hoax?" is an enormous red flag that what's coming has a high chance of being bullshit. And, hop, it was! Even if you think you can prove that 30 second edit is a better representation of what Gates actually thinks, it's still not what he said in that interview. It'd be like chopping together the words "I killed that woman" from ten minutes of audio of someone you're convinced is a murderer and presenting the audio montage as a confession.
And that Stewart Lee piece, for comic relief...you'll have to wait til the last 20 seconds or so to get to the exact bit I was talking about, but it's worth it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj2LcKdRU0o
You're not obsessed at all pal. Are you?
This is no doubt a naive, dumb question, but imagining the worst case scenario where all of this surveillance is activated (if it isn't already), what actual and practical difference will it make to our lives? How will it make things worse for the average Joe/ Josephine?
I understand it's an infringement on our freedoms, but for the vast majority of people that's a rather abstract idea. You get the vaccine and you get the passport with it so you can still travel wherever you choose (or is that wrong?); we are already potentially being monitored through our phone and Internet usage which for the vast majority doesn't mean anything beyond the abstract; we essentially now live in a cashless society so we are easily surveilled in that way too; speed cameras, CCTV, social media, forums like this... it's all kind of up and running already but apart from the philosophical implications, life seems pretty normal. Maybe even a lot more convenient? Covid not withstanding, of course.
I understand the resentment against the few who hold the power, but hasn't it always been so? What difference, in practical day to day terms, does it make if it's the top 20, 10 or 1% with the majority of wealth and power when you're a normal person doing normal things in a normal life?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 20, 2021, 10:07:59 AM
Does no one else find it absolutely relentless at the moment? You can't turn left or right without being confronted with things taken out of context but presented as concrete, immutable fact, whether that be anti-COVID measures or pro-COVID measures, anti-mRNA vaccine or pro-mRNA vaccine, anti-Republican or pro-Republican, anti-woke or pro-woke. Relentless.
Start out with the presumption that every cunt with an agenda, whatever that may be, is lying to you, whether they know it or not. The guy who edited that video of Gates, maybe he genuinely thought that Gates had just come out and publicly declared that he invested in vaccines primarily for personal profit, in the same way that people listen to Jordan Peterson and come away genuinely convinced that he's a fascist. In which case, what harm in just cutting out all the surrounding blahblah and leaving only what you're convinced he's saying anyway. The only problem, is that it isn't what he declared, it just semantically is not the message he communicated, however secretly cunningly he may have been hiding his real agenda, in the 10 minute interview.
So while anyone else predisposed to hating Gates (and why not!) will say, "Well, he may not have said it here, but it's what he thinks!" (reminds me of a trick Stewart Lee played on his audience once), others will look it up, see that it's an utterly misleading representation, and then, from that point on, they'll naturally tend to presume anything else coming from that source is likely also bullshit. This is exactly the point Scooby-snaKC was trying to make about the photoshopped shoe, except in that case it was just a total nobody writing a blog piece about a couple of online merch stores. Here though, the story you're getting at, if I've understood correctly, is that Gates - through the huge influence he has within the WHO, signaled and critiqued long before COVID arrived - has been guiding the WHO's COVID rhetoric and response in a bid to consolidate even more control over the future of global health surveillance. That's a little bit more serious than a photoshopped shoe, so try to keep the obvious bullshit out of it, even or rather especially if it seems like a gift-wrapped gotcha. And that means paying attention to context: the fact that video was tweeted as an answer to the question, "How would you convince someone COVID is a hoax?" is an enormous red flag that what's coming has a high chance of being bullshit. And, hop, it was! Even if you think you can prove that 30 second edit is a better representation of what Gates actually thinks, it's still not what he said in that interview. It'd be like chopping together the words "I killed that woman" from ten minutes of audio of someone you're convinced is a murderer and presenting the audio montage as a confession.
You have a point that it's everywhere. A big one in the last couple of days is a photo of the French people protesting in Paris, but is actually a photo of the celebrations when they won the world cup in 2018. There's a lot of that shit and yes everything must be looked at through the lens of suspicion. But you are basing your entire argument on rubbishing that single video clip, even after all of the sources I've given for everything else related to Gates and his quest to monopolise world health, which are all verifiable and true. So I will take the point about the video as being out of context even though I thought it was a nice representation of how I feel about him.
So now we've gotten the 30 second clip out of the way, do you think the Gates is innocent of the things I think of him? Actually there is another one of Gates doing the rounds where he says that vaccines could reduce the world population by about 15%, which is held up to say he wants to kill people with the vaccines, and that one isn't the case of course as the point he made that time was if the African kids were more likely to survive, then they would have smaller families, hence reducing the population over time. All anyone really needs to see he has too much influence is the tweet from von der Leyen. And I do think every cunt with an agenda is lying, and the answer is always money or control, and never mass world depopulation or microchipping us to be more ready for the 5G signal through vaccines (although if there was a way to get a chip into us all, many would like to do it, but again for money or control). And again you know I don't think that Covid is a hoax, but that the response almost constitutes one, even if a lot of it seems to come from good intentions. Where are all the people falling down in the streets would be a good place to start with that one, or when did the epidemic start is another good place but I'm going off track with that.
And to respond to Grim Reality, I agree with your point for the most part. It has always been the many in control of the few, but in this age where everybody is connected and everyone has access to the tools to educate themselves in many many ways and there are still the remnants of a democratic system to elect governments or be rid of them, we have an opportunity to change things by becoming wise to the money men. Because it's the covid thread, take something like someone telling us that the Pfizer vaccine trials were a roaring success for example (again, I think the jury is out there, but could turn still turn out to be the case, I'm not suggesting it does nothing but more time and data would help). In the past we wouldn't have been able to look that up and have a look for ourselves, we would have just had to take the word of the media for it. Now we can look it up and there's a lot of holes in the trials, and the efficacy may not be quite what we have been led to believe by the media which is for the most part owned by people who stand to make massive profits from many facets of the current situation. We no longer need the media to do it for us in a lot of ways and we can get through a good bit of the spin and propaganda this way. That is a bit of a missed opportunity and one that the subjugated masses of the past did not have and we do in this day and age. Being the sort of fellow I am, I am disappointed that the internet has been used to divide rather than unite the masses but here we are.
And yeah as son of the Morrigan says, the leash is getting tighter and more pervasive. We won't be able to take a shit in peace soon enough.
Quote from: Nazgûl on July 20, 2021, 07:47:38 AM
Jesus Christ the ranting is something else there.
Those one liners really crack me up!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6zTExsWEAEtOF1?format=jpg&name=small)
Our local independent cinema, which was already deadly, has announced it's limiting screen admissions to 49 for every screening for the foreseeable so that they're not obliged to do the government's bidding on the vaccine passport. Making them even deadlier. Not many politically engaged yet still properly great cinemas out there anymore!
Fair play to them, that's a class idea and hopefully there will be some loopholes like that to exploit here as a sort of passive resistance. I mean get the vaccines by all means it's someone's personal choice but the segregation and coercion feels bad. In fact I'd say it's counterproductive to the idea of getting as many as possible vaccinated because I know many who are put off by that sort of pushy salesmanship. Fuck it though, every now and again something heartening like that cinema comes along to lift the spirits a bit.
And here's something less heartening...
We have been subjected to the various (maybe successful, maybe not) NPI's for the last year and a half. Nobody knows how Sars-CoV-2 is actually transmitted between people. Let that sink in a bit, and I'll repeat; nobody knows how Sars-CoV-2 is transmitted from person to person and therefore from place to place. The idea that the science is settled is a joke. The science is never settled. Here is a picture which puts forward the case for airborne transmission and to the Black Shepherd, I do remember you highlighting this a few pages back and saying it seemed pretty important (although at the time I wrote it off as more vaccine propaganda, because if it is airborne, then the only way one might be safe would be to take the shot etc).
Suddenly it has struck me how important this theory actually is. Not because of the possible propaganda, but important because it shows that the science on this is in no way settled and we truly have no idea how people catch it.
Science is the seeking of further knowledge through experimentation and proving or disproving hypotheses as far as I ever understood the idea.
How many people have tested positive or gotten sick with Sars-CoV-2 and have no idea how they came to be so? Many, if the anecdotes are to be believed but then we all know the strength of anecdotal evidence, don't we? It is the basis for a hypothesis and no more if we are to follow the science in the traditional sense over the science of the propaganda machine, and yet that anecdotal evidence without a control experiment is what we have for evidence of asymptomatic transmission which in turn has been the crux of the worldwide response since early 2020.
So airborne transmission is the new hypothesis which now needs to be proved through experiment and - if it does happen to prove true - will blow the science on the transmission of viral infections wide open once more. I don't give a fuck if it is true or if it isn't true but it needs highlighting that the whole world has been fucked over in the strongest possible fashion on the presumption that the science behind transmission is something that is known when in fact nobody knows the true method of transmission for Sars-Cov-2.
This is why the responses need to be properly trialed before implementation. Proper, RCT-standard trials. For everything.
If it was the likes of The Plague of 1349 (keeping it true whenever I get the chance), we wouldn't need to be told to do anything because we'd all be running a mile from everyone and trying to save our own skin (and we wouldn't need to be told not to kill the Grannies - Grandad is still as disposable as ever - and not to overload the health service for three weeks while waiting for the health service (which has been perfectly well funded and yet grossly mismanaged for decades because of the stroke politics bullshit which pervades every aspect of this island) to get its' shit together.
We wouldn't need the constant psychological assault from all angles of the media; the neuro-linguistic programming techniques, the coercive control and the nonsensical bullshit of trying to follow all of the nonsensical rules and then taking the first vaccine in history which has been taken for social reasons and to this day is still only approved for emergency use, (that is still a fact by the way, in Europe and the U.S.A. and check that yourselves, and don't forget that the rules of the emergency approval are dependent on the unavailability of any alternative treatments, like the much-suppressed evidence of efficacy of anything else other than mRNA technology!) if there was some sort of lads-dropping-in-the-street-with-no-comorbidities, tough-shit-to-humanity virus doing the rounds. With or without science behind it, we'd all be running a fucking mile.
Finally: Here is that airborne transmission evidence picture that I was on about..
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E61ElyaXIAMzalW?format=jpg&name=small)
Follow the science, scientists!! Go fuck, fuckers! It's like the way I've always envisioned the Dark Ages to be, with the crusades and the witch burning and god knows what the fuck else. Life is gone like the witch burning scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail but it's only gone that way because there is money or power to be made by the moneymen and there are enough fucking eejits willing to ignore the evidence of their eyes and ears and they (We, because I'm a cunt too) are laughing their way into enslavement in the literal sense instead of the figurative sense. We are funny fuckers indeed. The point has been made that it has always been this way (and indeed it has) but the major difference these days is that with the technology we have at our fingertips we could easily teach each other some sort of basic grasp of this science (me bollix, it's the media that is telling you what the science says over anything science-related) that we are all supposed to be following.
Is there anyone else who is actually following the science?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 21, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
This is no doubt a naive, dumb question, but imagining the worst case scenario where all of this surveillance is activated (if it isn't already), what actual and practical difference will it make to our lives? How will it make things worse for the average Joe/ Josephine?
I understand it's an infringement on our freedoms, but for the vast majority of people that's a rather abstract idea. You get the vaccine and you get the passport with it so you can still travel wherever you choose (or is that wrong?); we are already potentially being monitored through our phone and Internet usage which for the vast majority doesn't mean anything beyond the abstract; we essentially now live in a cashless society so we are easily surveilled in that way too; speed cameras, CCTV, social media, forums like this... it's all kind of up and running already but apart from the philosophical implications, life seems pretty normal. Maybe even a lot more convenient? Covid not withstanding, of course.
I understand the resentment against the few who hold the power, but hasn't it always been so? What difference, in practical day to day terms, does it make if it's the top 20, 10 or 1% with the majority of wealth and power when you're a normal person doing normal things in a normal life?
No takers?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 22, 2021, 05:12:34 AM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 21, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
This is no doubt a naive, dumb question, but imagining the worst case scenario where all of this surveillance is activated (if it isn't already), what actual and practical difference will it make to our lives? How will it make things worse for the average Joe/ Josephine?
I understand it's an infringement on our freedoms, but for the vast majority of people that's a rather abstract idea. You get the vaccine and you get the passport with it so you can still travel wherever you choose (or is that wrong?); we are already potentially being monitored through our phone and Internet usage which for the vast majority doesn't mean anything beyond the abstract; we essentially now live in a cashless society so we are easily surveilled in that way too; speed cameras, CCTV, social media, forums like this... it's all kind of up and running already but apart from the philosophical implications, life seems pretty normal. Maybe even a lot more convenient? Covid not withstanding, of course.
I understand the resentment against the few who hold the power, but hasn't it always been so? What difference, in practical day to day terms, does it make if it's the top 20, 10 or 1% with the majority of wealth and power when you're a normal person doing normal things in a normal life?
No takers?
That'd be my outlook on things too. There's enough mundane shit to be giving out about that actually does impact our day-to-day. Getting worked up over a system that we can do fuckall about seems pretty pointless and only causes undue stress. At the end of the day, my sweaty balls currently concern me more than whatever Bill Gates is up to.
Added to the sweaty balls, got my second Pfizer jab. Awake since 4am with a sore arm and tired but not able to sleep. That bastard sun is creeping up now too.
This is it. I think it's admirable that people take such a detailed interest in all of this stuff from big business, Covid, global warming etc. and it's good to have some idea about it all. I'm just not sure what difference it really makes because, when it comes to the crunch, we have so little sway over anything. The decisions are made so far above our heads, far ahead of the time we live to see them take effect, that the argument is moot from the start. That's a defeatist attitude no doubt, and maybe it's more to do with my personality- if I'm working and making enough money to survive and do the things I think are important or pleasurable then the rest of it is a bit of a sideshow to say the very least. The only thing I find happens when I start paying attention to any of it is it irritates me and makes me angry. But it's an impotent anger that feels like just another chain around my own neck... so shrug it off and get on with life with that much less stress.
100%
It's grand for debates etc. like on here but I only really give a cursory look at this stuff nowadays. There's nothing wrong with being informed but having righteous anger is futile as there's nothing you can do, it's more or less directionless. As you say, take comfort and enjoyment in what you can. Don't sweat the small stuff but equally don't sweat the stuff that's so big that you can do fuckall about.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 22, 2021, 05:12:34 AM
This is no doubt a naive, dumb question, but imagining the worst case scenario where all of this surveillance is activated (if it isn't already), what actual and practical difference will it make to our lives? How will it make things worse for the average Joe/ Josephine?
I think "Look at China!" is the rote response to that question. Or some vague allusion to Stalin.
Funnily, to answer astfgyl's question too, about transmission and people getting COVID without knowing how, in the Asian countries that implemented it, targeted tracing and isolation of contacts worked great, whereas in the modern "west", vaguely defined as those nations where individual freedoms and rights are held to be the most sacred thing, contact tracing failed as a strategy; people didn't participate, didn't use the apps, didn't actually isolate when they were told to, etc., etc. In South Korea, Taiwan, and Vietnam, the state's response didn't factor our sacred cow of individual freedoms
at all. In South Korea, data surveillance was used to, as we would see it, "hack" who a confirmed case's contacts had been. In Vietnam and Taiwan, confirmed contacts were sent to, as we would see it, concentration camps... in reality, quarantine facilities.
Sure any time anywhere in the west something was done to try and implement things on a societal rather than individual level (because, and this can never be said enough, an epidemic/pandemic is a social-level, not an individual-level phenomenon), the loudest voices heard were people barking about individual-level shite. Like recently when vaccinations were opened to all ages for African-Americans earlier than they were for others. Even though it was clear as fucking day when looking at the data that this was an attempt to redress an imbalance in the vaccination rates between different communities, of course all we heard was "It's not fair!" Not fair on who?
Individuals. Our western, individualistic thinking is terrible, the absolute worst frame of mind, for getting the necessary done when it comes to a pandemic. And it leads to so much hypocrisy and bullshit; "My political party will never impose that on you!" 2 weeks to 6 months later, "Sorry, but we absolutely have to impose this on you!" In those Asian countries? "Here's what's happening. Everyone do their bit." And that second sentence is only implied, because in any case, they just do it. South Korea, where cases are rising again at the moment too, still only has 3,500 cases per million inhabitants, and only 40 deaths per million. Compare that to, say, Sweden, who supposedly did things in the way that most respected "western values" of personal responsibility and freedom: 108,000 cases, 1,500 deaths per million inhabitants.
So, that was the COVID blahblahblah bit. Now to come back to Andy's bit, I'm not saying I think we should all become like those Asian nations. BUT they are very useful, in a pluralistic sense, for getting some much needed perspective on what we have to put up with. Because, the vaccine passport doesn't bother me personally; not only am I vaccinated, but I've needed a literal vaccine passport for traveling previously, so it never appeared to me as a dystopian thing in and of itself. Rather, what's annoying is introducing a vaccine passport against the backdrop of a totally failed vaccination programme, which is failing in part because of what the "modern west" holds dearest.
In short, take what's good about your western mind-frame (and there is nothing more western than having the luxury to
ponder a possible big conspiracy going on as opposed to having it physically shoved down your throat by the buropolitik), but accept that in certain situations, it's not the optimal. Because nothing is optimal in every situation.
Now, have a fun day as opposed to interesting times everyone!
Shove it up yer flappy hoop....
https://extra.ie/2021/07/22/news/irish-news/pantibar-rory-oneill-panti-bliss-vaccination
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on July 22, 2021, 05:17:23 PM
Shove it up yer flappy hoop....
https://extra.ie/2021/07/22/news/irish-news/pantibar-rory-oneill-panti-bliss-vaccination
Did you actually read the article. He's not opening indoor dining until all his young staff are vaccinated. Are you actually pissed off at that.
https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1418633230861979649
I just don't know anymore. We'll be next anyway.
Laurence Fox...if only he could be permanently lost for words.
If you didn't get vaccinated in Israel, unlike in France (where the passport measures are otherwise identical...see my previous post), it really was only because you refused to, not because of access problems, etc.
Larry broke ranks, and now he's on a par with Hitler (I was going to say Pol Pot but sure he was only doing pure revolution, fuck the specky bastards etc).
He wishes he could ever be on a par with Hitler! He's just an adult spoilt-brat profile toffee-nosed sap.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 24, 2021, 01:05:25 PM
Laurence Fox...if only he could be permanently lost for words.
If you didn't get vaccinated in Israel, unlike in France (where the passport measures are otherwise identical...see my previous post), it really was only because you refused to, not because of access problems, etc.
Don't shoot the messenger (he is a sap in general but so what), the video is very clearly not taken out of context. Are you seriously attempting to defend this? You have to be taking the piss.
We were just following orders, they were unclean...
Quote from: astfgyl on July 24, 2021, 02:27:25 PM
Are you seriously attempting to defend this? You have to be taking the piss.
We were just following orders, they were unclean...
No one's getting massacred for not being vaccinated (in fact, the narrative is the reverse of that), so no need for the absurd holocaust parallels. I was mainly saying that what Israel have announced is no more or less than what came into effect here in France a few days ago, so I'm not sure why Fox is lost for words
now for the first time in his life. If anything, in Israel it's more understandable since they really did put an effective vaccination programme in place first of all, unlike here in France. And also the cap they announce in the video is 100, whereas here it's 50.
And, on a side note, no one should be surprised or lost for words at any kind of authoritarian action from Israel. Maybe Fox can spend his brief stint of silence reflecting on what that means for the Palestine situation he has been so dismissive of in the past, the absolute cock.
Still banging on about Fox being lost for words? Deflect much?
It was by convincing everybody that the Jews were unclean and the root of the problems in the first place that then allowed for the actual holocaust to happen. But you know this unless you've never read up on it or studied it in history.
And Israel really did put in an effective vaccination programme in place, that is not disputed. The only thing is, it doesn't appear to be working as advertised (I say appear because as far as I can see, the deaths are indeed way down on last year and early this year). https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-doubt-study-delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-1607534 have a read of that and then tell me the science is settled or that the vaccines are not still on trial as to their efficacy.
What was introduced in France is every bit as wrong as this, I agree. I still don't see how you can defend this or resort to derision of Laurence Fox to distract from what is going on. It's indefensible from a scientific point of view. You know this too though, and are just opposing my views here for the sake of the argument.
I do think Israel, given their situation, are exaggerating. But that doesn't surprise me. So, I know why Fox is "stunned" by it, because he's a blinkered idiot just fueling his own political aims, but I don't know why this specifically made you say "I just don't know anymore." Israel have been at the forefront in the (nominal) "west" for anti-COVID measures since the get-go. In fact, I thought they already had something like a vaccine passport or mandatory vaccination in place. In other words, I'm surprised too, but only to hear that they're only bringing it in now. Can't keep up on everything though!
As for delta variant, etc., and the science of any given vaccine; it was always on the table that variants could emerge that would be more resistant (variants that were less resistant wouldn't get a chance to emerge). It's evolution, baby!
This has nothing to do with coronavirus, but I happened to watch it during lunch yesterday, and it works well enough as a bit of a refresher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sLAQvEH-M
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 24, 2021, 02:58:51 PM
I do think Israel, given their situation, are exaggerating. But that doesn't surprise me. So, I know why Fox is "stunned" by it, because he's a blinkered idiot just fueling his own political aims, but I don't know why this specifically made you say "I just don't know anymore." Israel have been at the forefront in the (nominal) "west" for anti-COVID measures since the get-go. In fact, I thought they already had something like a vaccine passport or mandatory vaccination in place. In other words, I'm surprised too, but only to hear that they're only bringing it in now. Can't keep up on everything though!
As for delta variant, etc., and the science of any given vaccine; it was always on the table that variants could emerge that would be more resistant (variants that were less resistant wouldn't get a chance to emerge). It's evolution, baby!
As much as I enjoyed the PJ reference, I still think that the science on this doesn't add up enough for mandatory or coerced vaccinations or indeed any form of health pass system. Israel did bring it in already and then removed it when numbers decreased. The reason I don't even know anymore is because we have spent the last year amassing data which points to all of this segregation being wrong and futile and yet the whole world seems to be singing from the same hymn sheet, thundering ahead with the plan. The variants are bullshit as well. There must be numbers of positive tests or there is no emergency and all of this shit is a stalling tactic to get everyone on board with the vaccination passes, which by the design of the vaccines (not to prevent transmission or infection, only severe outcomes) are a waste of time. Except they aren't a waste of time at all, are they? They fit the agenda perfectly.
By the way, are you saying that vaccination leads to vaccination resistant variants? It looks like that is what you're saying, and that is an argument against vaccinating everyone in itself. - edit: because infection doesn't produce natural immunity resistant variants. Have a look how many reinfections have been recorded with any of the new variants in people who have already been infected and recovered. In fact the longer this goes on, the Great Barrington Declaration seems to make more and more sense, and it isn't against vaccines either, in fact it supports them but only after they have been properly trialed before being rushed to market.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 24, 2021, 03:53:24 PM
By the way, are you saying that vaccination leads to vaccination resistant variants? It looks like that is what you're saying, and that is an argument against vaccinating everyone in itself. - edit: because infection doesn't produce natural immunity resistant variants. Have a look how many reinfections have been recorded with any of the new variants in people who have already been infected and recovered.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying (from my understanding) that partial population vaccination can lead to vaccine resistant variants, in a way that you can think of as kind of analogous to starting an antibiotic treatment but not finishing it. It will also lead to variants that are not resistant to a given vaccine, but by principle such a virus will not be able to "emerge" across the population if enough of them are vaccinated with a vaccine which that variant is not resistant to. Partial population natural immunity via infection does produce the same effect, not only with COVID, but in general.
Sorry if this was already discussed but wasn't one of the potential advantages was if it evolves away the spike protein that the mrna vaccines use to fight it, it should become less infectious?
"At the Nuremberg trials, the doctors and nurses stood trial...and they hung."
See why it's not a good idea to feed holocaust parallels?
https://twitter.com/marclister3k/status/1418907451190038533
Your mate Reiner, the lawyer, was videoed in, to talk hyperbolic bollocks by the looks of things:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418928639433977856
Edit: That full thread of quotes from all the main speakers is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418915810416934915
If that's the cream of the protest discourse crop, David Icke, Katie Hopkins, some deranged ex-nurse... :-X
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 25, 2021, 12:10:08 PM
Your mate Reiner, the lawyer, was videoed in, to talk hyperbolic bollocks by the looks of things:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418928639433977856
Edit: That full thread of quotes from all the main speakers is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418915810416934915
If that's the cream of the protest discourse crop, David Icke, Katie Hopkins, some deranged ex-nurse... :-X
Some awful lineup at that. Why do the 5G crowd have to be brought in for this shit? It isn't as if there is a lack of proper things to give out about. I'm surprised Fuellmich had any part in sharing the stage with the likes of those people. Bad move, Reiner. Here's a response that I identified with: https://twitter.com/runnytom/status/1418925242085486593 Of course you already know that I don't involve myself with all that bollocks anyway.
And here's something equal to any of the shit these lads are talking.. the bullshit comes from everywhere. Look at the state of the article, no source, no data, no fuck all only a stupid claim to make a headline. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ministers-fear-coronavirus-could-spread-24609803
Then of course we have the fact-checks, which are basically laughable for the most part and yet that is supposed to be keeping us safe from misinformation. Check this one for example, about pfizer and their practices: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/19/fact-check-resolved-lawsuits-against-pfizer-alleged-marketing-fraud/4857499001/
Our rating: Partly false. So it's mostly true then. The misinformation is everywhere but it's not just the 5G crew it's coming from.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 26, 2021, 01:13:55 AM
And here's something equal to any of the shit these lads are talking.. the bullshit comes from everywhere. Look at the state of the article, no source, no data, no fuck all only a stupid claim to make a headline. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ministers-fear-coronavirus-could-spread-24609803
Then of course we have the fact-checks, which are basically laughable for the most part and yet that is supposed to be keeping us safe from misinformation. Check this one for example, about pfizer and their practices: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/19/fact-check-resolved-lawsuits-against-pfizer-alleged-marketing-fraud/4857499001/
Our rating: Partly false. So it's mostly true then. The misinformation is everywhere but it's not just the 5G crew it's coming from.
These are both pretty weak come-backs, to be fair. The Mirror is a tabloid rag; improperly sourced sensationalist hype bullshit is their bread and butter. No matter what is happening in the world, you can be guaranteed to find bullshit in the tabloids, so it's not great evidence for "the bullshit comes from everywhere."
Then, the fact-check article concluding "Partly false" instead of "Mostly true", your remark on that point is fair enough. But the article itself goes into detail about the ways in which Pfizer have indeed been massive big pharma monsters in the past, and personally I wish more had been done to take the vaccine patents away from all the big pharma groups. But softening the conclusion after presenting the evidence, dishonest as that may be, is nothing like what the "5G crew" do, which is present a load of nonsense, then carve a conclusion from it in stone. And, as the fact-check thing does crucially conclude, the initial claim they describe as "partly false" absolutely is irrelevant to the question of whether the Pfizer COVID vaccine is safe and/or effective. The claim being combated was doing much worse than saying "partly false" instead of "mostly true." The bottom-line of the claim being fact-checked (trusting Pfizer with your "babies" https://www.instagram.com/p/COIlgLKHN6h/ ) is not "partly false"; it has no logic to it. It's "not even false."
I hadn't seen the original post as I don't go on instagram. I had heard of the massive settlement a long way back and checked on google at the time with no mention of babies or anything (although I wouldn't be lining up my own kids to try it out). Actually that post is pretty funny as the text underneath says "fact-check this", which resulted in a fact-check to iron out the creases in the claim, so to be fair they really were asking for it and got a very detailed checking as a result. So I'm going to concede that one was fair enough and a deserved slap on the wrist for the creator.
I can understand the frustration of people constantly reading shite claims with no source and listening to the likes of that idiot ex-NHS nurse (who thankfully I'd never heard of) in the same way I can feel my own frustration at the media bollix like that fart story that was in the Mirror and I agree with your assessment of the tabloid rags. It is awful to be someone with genuine skepticism of the way this has all been handled and have done ridiculous amounts of reading and doing my own looking at things and then get lumped in with that shite. I'd almost think that the UK government would be rubbing their hands at those knobs talking obvious shite on stage and I can't understand how thinking things are wrong gets anyone to that next step, y'know saying don't believe the media lies etc and then coming on with all that stuff as if it has any basis in anything. I'd be embarrassed to be listening to that stuff and wouldn't even put it over in the conspiracy thread. It's awful and I agree with you about it being worthy of ridicule to the extent that even old Reiner Fuellmich has gone down a bit in my estimation by having anything to do with it. I have also met people who are doubtful like myself and seen that the seed of that stuff has been planted in their minds and I don't think any of it is like that.
Do I think covid is being used as a Trojan Horse? I do. Do I think 5G has anything to do with it? I don't. Do I think Covid exists? I do. Do I think it is being overplayed severely? I do. Do I think the test gives dubious results? Yes. Do we know where covid came from? No. Do we know how it spreads? No. Do we know the vaccines will work? Not yet. Do I think they are designed for a purpose other than as advertised? No. Do I think they might harm people? Possibly, but not intentionally. Do I believe in lockdowns and other NPI's? I did, but now we have plenty of evidence that they don't work and now we will probably never know. Am I going to take the vaccine? Not as of yet, but if the problems becoming apparent with the technology get ironed out and it proves to be as effective as claimed, I might. Do I believe this has all been done wrong, even if it was with the best of intentions? Yes. Do I think it should be given to kids? No, it needs far more research first. Do I believe in segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people? No, I think it's wrong, and especially if the vaccines work. Would I tell someone not to take a vaccine? I wouldn't. Do I wear the mask and wash my hands and respect other people's wishes regarding social distancing etc? Absolutely, and as Ochoill was saying about the wedding we were at, I was indeed the only one wearing the mask because I was unsure of the rules and didn't want to upset anyone or make them feel uncomfortable. I'm clarifying all of this because I wish to distance myself entirely from what was being said on that stage in London. I also feel that nobody should be taking a vaccine for social reasons, yet that is what is happening and I see it every day of the week.
I have been following the science as best I can during this and I have indeed been caught out by many bad claims to the extent I have also become skeptical of the skeptics and arguing with yourself over it all has admittedly helped point in that direction. It's a real shitshow from all sides and while I still think that some of the claims warrant a second look, I do file the stuff going on at that protest under the ridiculous header without even getting into it. I still wouldn't trust governments or massive corporations as far as I'd throw them but that isn't since covid, that was all along and I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that yet, despite the bullshit from the opposition. Those people talking on that stage would be useful idiots as I understand the term, as anyone sane should run from what they say. There are plenty of decent sources out there which stick to following the science, and indeed the politics.
Here's an interesting little interactive piece I came across which is closer to the idea I have in my head than anything too far out: https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/ I still think some far out things are already happening as a result. The web of lobbying and funding is where I feel a lot of the answers to the seemingly nonsensical stuff might be found.
Speaking of tabloids though (I'll read that last post of yours later in the day), the deranged ex-nurse's own son has been mobilized to speak out against her:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-54669239
Gonna need Trisha or Jeremy Kyle to sort this out!
Aye, she is fucking deranged, no doubt about it.
I haven't changed my stance or anything, but I do believe informed consent and freedom of choice are very important things and are values which must be upheld. So I give you one of those "anti-vaxxers" who was on the stage in London talking shite...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34rnwBnll4
The bullshit from all sides must be called out. Mandates and coercion are still the work of the devil though. There is enough real stuff to complain about without these useful idiot cunts taking the proverbial 30 pieces of silver
Here is the counterpoint to the likes of piers corbyn..
https://brownstone.org/articles/a-framework-for-understanding-pathogens-explained-by-sunetra-gupta/
..edit: well fuck me, here's the insanity coming for the aussies.. https://twitter.com/RebelNewsOnline/status/1421640437459267584
Yes, this is indeed lunacy. Convince me otherwise. Nobody is this stupid, not in real life.
Anyone waking up to the smell of shit yet? I'll bet rakes of ye are but won't admit it because ye need to double down on the initial investment of nothing to see here. well don't worry the smell of shit isn't going away anytime soon
3 days lockdown will achieve what? Answers on a postcard to the lord of lies please
Out of curiosity, the fact that Australia is possibly only behind New Zealand in terms of deaths per million, do you think that is "thanks" to their policies? Or do you think things have been massaged to only make it look like the countries that implemented the harshest measures came out of this whole thing best?
I know a 3-day lockdown seems ridiculous, and maybe it is, but the rise in cases in Australia in the last week or so is the only really significant rise in cases they've seen since this time last year. But, incidentally, the Western Australia district implemented a 5-day strict lockdown end of January this year. It was lifted after five days. Then end of March, Brisbane announced a 3-day lockdown. It was lifted after three days. If you look at the timeline, you'll see that this kind of short, sharp lockdown has been an integral part of Australia's response to clusters throughout 2021, so if you want to know what it may achieve, you've only to look back through and see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia
Edit: Other Australian news I just stumbled upon -
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/01/sky-news-australia-banned-from-youtube-for-seven-days-over-covid-misinformation
I must find you the one where the CDC was flagged as false information when they announced they were withdrawing one of the current PCR tests from FDA approval, to be replaced by a multiplex one which differentiates between influenza and covid. The announcement is on the CDC website. (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html) Lots of people misunderstood the meaning and now it's being flagged as false information, even though it's there for all to see as actual info. The fact-checking has long since gotten out of hand so it's no surprise Sky News Australia have been banned.
Remember last year when Australia was one of the sticks that the zero covid crowd used to beat everyone with? Yeah it didn't work, basically. Look at the lad announcing the 3 day lockdown he's like some sort of religious zealot and nobody can be that stupid to think 3 days lockdown is a possibility, juust as we should never have fell for the 3 weeks to flatten the curve. Even the vaccinated people should be able to see this shit for the shit it is at this stage. I have of course been following what Australia has been doing over the last year with the short sharp lockdowns and those lockdowns are getting longer and more blunt just like everywhere else. 3 days to flatten the curve! Ah come on.
It puts the lotion in the basket, it takes the vaccine or it gets more lockdowns, if it doesn't volunteer for the injections it gets them mandated. It would be funny if it wasn't so fucked up.
Here, read this if you haven't already and look at the timing https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/default/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf. Coincidence of course.
I have a pdf of the pfizer trial data as well which I was reading in the interest of following the science https://media.tghn.org/medialibrary/2020/11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020_Pfizer_BioNTech.pdf
It doesn't look as brilliant as advertised so far.
But, again, what's the big picture you're driving at? If it's not because they think they are useful, why do Australia keep on implementing these short, sharp restrictions? They've done it several times in the last few months, in several different districts. You say the stated reason is nonsense. So then, what is the real reason? What is the real reason to repeatedly do this short-term thing, according to you? Because they started long before the vaccine was even available, and Australia has a shortage of vaccines also, a supply rather than demand problem: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/15/australian-government-scales-back-supply-projections-for-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine
So it can't be a "Take the vaccine!" stick, or not a very effective one, since the vaccines aren't there, not enough of them anyway. Plus, as I just pointed out, all the previous 3- and 5-day lockdowns in Australia were just that, not Trojan horses to announce much longer ones. Maybe they work, maybe they don't, but they have been what they were described on the tin as.
There's lots of flags to shoot at, fine. But making out those flags are actually foundational bricks of a bigger story, when clearly they are just random flags blowing in the chaotic wind, that's on another level.
My guess is that the governments jumped at a crazy contract for the vaccines (read a leak of the one between Pfizer and Albania IIRC, (also Brazil) I'll dig it out, Follow it from here https://twitter.com/eh_den/status/1419653002818990085 and make up your own mind whether it's real or not) as the way out and now will have to keep the lockdowns going until enough people take it and accept the vaccine passport (lobbying is powerful).
I find it the most amazing thing that countries aren't expanding hospital capacity. In the beginning it was said it would take too long but by now would be well on the way there or could have specifically trained staff for the treatment of covid and nothing else but no it's still the lockdowns until everyone takes the shot. Do you think it's sheer coincidence that the roadmap to vaccine passports is on the EU website since 2018? And now all the governments are acting like it's a novel idea for a novel virus..
I did clarify at length how I am at odds with the conspiracy crowd but doing my own research a lot I find more and more wrong things. I linked this already but it's worth a look if you missed it https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/. I feel that's closest to what is after happening and now the only exit plan is taking the vaccine or governments will be fucked. I actually think it's an understandable position after everyone shat the togs initially and if I were the government I'd do the same. So as regards conspiracies, I don't think there's one big one either, just a lot of opportunism going on and hard hard lobbying because the passports will be the ultimate moneymaker for the pharma companies. Regarding the scaling back of the Astrazeneca shot, that's probably because of the ridiculous side effects which are becoming apparent and weren't flagged in the initial trials (the AZ one is particularly bad so far). Don't think for a minute that something else won't be scaled up in its' place. It's also interesting that moderna had the vaccine in development prior to the declaration of the pandemic, but I'll have to get into that in more detail before I stick it on here.
The anti crowd are shitehawks too though, no doubt about that. Sure look at the video of the anti vax lad taking the 10 grand for his soul that I posted yesterday. In fact that shit on the London stage was like a splash of cold water to the face for me and I'm being extra careful since not to be associating with that shit. If one wants to get into conspiracy theories here's a good start https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/pais/research/csgr/green/foresight/scienceinnovation/green_future_trends_series_-_rockefeller_foundation.pdf. This scenario called Lock Step is one of the most prescient things I've ever seen and while nobody can predict a pandemic, the response can be pre planned well in advance. It looks like most countries read the script from this 2010 scenario but that isn't how I see it exactly. The moneymen read the script and lobbied like fuck for it would be my guess. Funnily enough there's also a scenario for a potential "cyber pandemic" in there too.
Here's the fact check for that one, which does its' very best to distract from the fact that the document exists by beginning with the craziest conspiracy stuff possible before going on to confirm the existence of the document (which would be the actual meat in the sandwich) and has a link to it in there. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/14/fact-check-operation-lockstep-covid-19-conspiracy-theory/6567231002/ Of course it doesn't take a genius to work out that the fact check is pure obfuscation because it's better to discredit the idea of a pre planned response than anyone thinking it might not be random chance that the world went for the same weird policies at once.
I do agree with your assertion that most of it is random though all the same and I'm presenting the Lockstep scenario to maybe show how so many people end up thinking it's a masterplan, given what is written, who is behind it and who is driving world policies through lobbying.
Australia mate, Australia. Answer the question sticking to what is happening and what has happened in Australia, without flitting off to point at the EU or the US or Albania, which are irrelevant to the situation in Australia, since the respective responses of all of them have been totally different.
Australia have only ~15% of the population fully vaccinated. Which is nothing. And the reason it's so slow is not primarily because of resistance to getting vaccinated. So, what use now or at any time in the last 7 months would it have been to implement, in Australia, snap lockdowns as a coercion to get people to get vaccinated...if there were no vaccines available??
So, things happening smoothly in accordance with an overarching plan for global control (which, arguably, has already existed for decades)? Or things more or less ham-fistedly being tried out with lots of crossed interests and human error and random variance getting all messed up?
And ask yourself why you are making a big deal of a 3-day snap lockdown on the other side of the globe now as opposed to when they first started happening months ago? It's the same question that needed asking when a big deal was made of Israel announcing something a week ago that was no more nor less stringent than things they'd already done months ago. Point all over the world, pick out only the events that fit the overarching narrative - regardless of background or context - and amplify them endlessly, so that you have a neverending supply of bricks to build the edifice of doubt. How does what is happening in Australia fit with what is happening anywhere in Europe? It doesn't. The two situations, with respect to type and length of lockdown, travel quarantine, vaccine availability, case rate, mortality rate, etc., couldn't be any more different.
Would love to see a popular revolution triggered by pharmaceutical companies doing what they do best; serving capital over human interests:
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-moderna-raises-prices-its-covid-19-vaccines-eu-ft-2021-08-01/
Saw that about the price hike. Not surprised in the least.
Re the Australian situation, it's no different to what is happening everywhere else. That's how it relates to everywhere else. All corners of the world are going for the same outcome even if there's differences in how they get there and the basic shit is keep locking down and restrictions until the cavalry comes with the vaccines and passports. And don't even pretend that you think a 3 day lockdown will do anything at all.
What happens if the vaccines don't work? Where's the contingency plan? Can't lock down forever but nobody seems to be considering that, which is so unbelievable that I don't believe it tbh.
Did you read the Lockstep scenario by the way?
I do think a 3 day lockdown may achieve something. Because they have achieved something all the other times Australia have had recourse to them; they give them a little breathing space in order for identified cases, contacts, and their movements to be geographically localized before even more cases are created. That's why they bring them in as soon as a cluster appears, even small. It's also why they have actually lifted them again after the stated length of time rather than using them as a cover to slip a longer lockdown in the back door (as several of the commenters on the Rebel News post you shared presumed was the case...because they know nothing about the background in Australia...and Rebel News sure as hell ain't gonna correct them on that).
Do you think they're totally pointless and the government know it but are doing it just to be seen to be doing something? Or do you think there is some pointed ulterior motive behind, specifically, this quite particular type of localized snap lockdown? If so, what is that ulterior motive and what are the facts that back it, specifically, up? All I'm seeing is generalizations pointing anywhere but Australia. The fact that Rebel News are highlighting this, the fact that Lawrence Fox highlighted Israel last week, is just people pointing anywhere on the globe that fits, at any given moment, with the narrative they are literally selling, without giving a shit about what the local context is. That is how you keep your subscribers fed and happy. And again, look yourself honestly at how you presented it: "well fuck me, here's the insanity coming for the aussies." Nothing is "coming for the aussies" that they haven't been doing for months. If you're talking about Australia but don't know that, it's because knowing that wouldn't fit the narrative your sources are amplifying!
Australia's response has been very different to other places, both in approaches and results. I don't see what's gained in terms of genuine understanding of what's going on in the world by trying to pretend otherwise.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-02/queensland-coronavirus-new-cases-update-lockdown-brisbane-school/100341828 well it's gone up to 8 days now. Some of the quotes in it are baffling, like "We need to lock down really, really hard, the hardest we have ever locked down," from the Queensand CMO. So here's the insanity coming for the Aussies that I was talking about. Lockdowns don't appear to have worked anywhere other than China so far. Remember them all celebrating in April or May 2020 that the epidemic was over?
It's unfortunate for me that I have to find stuff shared by the likes of Laurence Fox tbh. I think he's a contrarian knob. Rebel News the same. Looking at evidence from around the world I honestly haven't a clue why anyone would think a 3 day lockdown would do anything at all when there is an incubation period of anywhere up to 2 weeks for the virus. It's a good point you make about that re ulterior motive (all I can think of is that it's a case of keep doing it until everyone takes the shot and the snap lockdowns do the least economic harm in the meantime) and maybe you're right that it is just to be seen to do something but I haven't got the answer. It's just too confusing.
As I've mentioned, the anti side sicken my hole as much as the super pro side in all of this and I'm trying to become a centrist but it's hard with so many obviously wrong things happening everywhere.
Australia went almost a full year (end of August 2020 to mid-July 2021) with essentially no increase in cases and essentially zero deaths. This was almost exclusively down to their lockdown methods. You can see it on the graph right here:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/
And if you look at the timeline of their measures, you'll see that since January they have implemented many 3- and 5-day lockdowns, which we must presume were in some way successful since, again, there was no significant increase in cases during that period, up until a couple of weeks ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia#January_2021
Looking back at the graph from worldometers, it seems pretty clear that there is something happening now with case increases that hasn't happened there since August last year. Why? How? I don't know. But 36 deaths per million compared to a global average of 544... all part of an elaborate plan? Maybe, but I'm sure all those extra thousands of Australians who didn't die on ventilators are pretty happy about it. And if it's not thanks to lockdowns, then I'm at a loss to find another reason. Unless it's all a charade, of course.
Before I tackle this one (and I will), how long do you think before the effects of any lockdown become apparent? Serious question.
From just a couple of posts ago:
Quote[snap lockdowns] give them a little breathing space in order for identified cases, contacts, and their movements to be geographically localized before even more cases are created. That's why they bring them in as soon as a cluster appears, even small.
In other words, the effects of successfully isolating infected cases and as many of their potential contacts as possible, if there are a small enough number of them to be contained, can become apparent very quickly. If a region has essentially zero cases for a while, and then a couple of cases pop up, in those precise circumstances, a snap lockdown to enable containment can be and has been effective. Not saying it's perfect, or what every country "should" be doing. But it has worked for Australia, proof in the pudding, etc. Up until the last couple of weeks that is.
No I'm not being smart about it, I'm going to look at the figures and dates etc and see if indeed I come to form an opinion on it. If it looks like it works I'll freely admit it. I am skeptical but I'm going to go in with an open mind because I personally feel that entrenched positions won't help anything. Perhaps I'll come to the realisation that snap, short lockdowns are the way to mitigate the situation in the short term. I can't think that they are a permanent solution by any sort of logic, but assuming that vaccinating the vulnerable is the solution for severe illness and death in the longer term (I also think that the young healthy folk can take it on the chin, but for the vulnerable it's a good idea), maybe the Aussies are getting it right. 3 days sounds like a joke to me, but a week or 2 here and there maybe. I'll have a good look at it this evening and come back here. Going to concentrate on Queensland though rather than the whole country as there are differences in response in different states.
Isolating the sick has always seemed like a good idea to me as well, but it has gotten out of hand when people are judged to be sick without clinical symptoms. Anyway, I'll have a look.
Finding it very tough to get graphs and numbers for Queensland alone. What I will say is that prior to the current shutdown it seems so far like there might be a bit of merit in the snap lockdowns some of the time and not so much at other times for the full country. Not really accurate using numbers for the whole country because who knows which state was doing what at given times. So the jury is out a bit but I can't use any of the figures I've seen to discredit the idea in Australia. Other countries in other parts of the world is easier but I did say I'd stick to Oz so there we go. I'll get back on it though when I have more time. Sounds like a bit of a cop out answer so I'm going to say 1 nil to you at half time.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/03/nycs-de-blasio-mandates-vaccines-for-indoor-activities.html
More passports, and this peach of a quote: "De Blasio said the mandate, known as the Key to NYC Pass, would encourage increased immunizations to combat the spread of the delta coronavirus variant." Can anyone show me anywhere in the world where the vaccine rollout has worked against the Delta variant? Beyond ridiculous.
Now I came across some Irish figures today, from this day last year vs same day this year...
4th August 2020: 5 in ICU, 14 in hospital (that's with a positive test, maybe covid maybe not, but we all know about that lark by now). No vaccine.
4th August 2021: 29 in ICU, 186 in hospital (again, positive tests and not a lot of data beyond that). Almost 6 million doses of vaccine administered so far, some full, some partial.
Mostly the same restrictions except the 9 euro dinner and a few GAA and League of Ireland games. Vaccine passports now in force. It's really going well and crushing that Delta Wave isn't it?
Delta Waves: "In the deepest level of sleep, stage IV sleep, the predominant EEG activity consists of low frequency (1–4 Hz), high-amplitude fluctuations called delta waves, the characteristic slow waves for which this phase of sleep is named.... ....It is most difficult to awaken people from slow-wave sleep; hence it is considered to be the deepest stage of sleep" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10996/)
Quote from: astfgyl on August 04, 2021, 08:18:32 PM
Delta Waves: "In the deepest level of sleep, stage IV sleep, the predominant EEG activity consists of low frequency (1–4 Hz), high-amplitude fluctuations called delta waves, the characteristic slow waves for which this phase of sleep is named.... ....It is most difficult to awaken people from slow-wave sleep; hence it is considered to be the deepest stage of sleep" (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK10996/)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote4th August 2020: 5 in ICU, 14 in hospital (that's with a positive test, maybe covid maybe not, but we all know about that lark by now). No vaccine.
4th August 2021: 29 in ICU, 186 in hospital (again, positive tests and not a lot of data beyond that). Almost 6 million doses of vaccine administered so far, some full, some partial.
Mostly the same restrictions except the 9 euro dinner and a few GAA and League of Ireland games. Vaccine passports now in force. It's really going well and crushing that Delta Wave isn't it?
Maybe it's a bit unfair to compare last year's strain with this summer's deadly delta mutation. But sure I suppose it's all the young kids fault isn't it, with their partying and whatnot.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 04, 2021, 08:18:32 PMCan anyone show me anywhere in the world where the vaccine rollout has worked against the Delta variant?
Depends on what you're demanding of the word "worked" there, doesn't it? It's like, you say that a snap lockdown won't "work", but what you mean is that it's not enough to flatten the curve. No, but they have been effective at previous times for containment. Likewise, is the vaccine "working" to prevent the spread of the delta variant? Maybe not as well as we'd like, but then again the population isn't as vaccinated as we'd like either. But, supposedly most (not all, disclaimer, blah blah) of those dying and/or ending up in hospital with the delta variant are...not vaccinated. So, it's working and it's not working. It's doing what we were told it would do. I mean, you're the very one who was a few months ago on the claims that the vaccination wasn't going to reduce transmission, no? And the reply from the scientific community was, if the whole population is vaccinated transmission should be reduced a bit, but the main aim of the vaccination is to prevent against serious manifestation of the COVID illness. If it's doing that, it's "working", no?
The vaccine doesn't reduce transmission. You can see that as well as I can. It definitely doesn't. It does seem to be reducing death and hospitalisation though, but then again if one believes the variant narrative (I don't) as it is presented, you can't also say it is because of the vaccine which is specifically tailored to the spike protein on the alpha variant, so which is it? I'd like to believe that it does work on that level of reducing serious illness and death or else this is all for nothing and then the conspiracy theory side of my brain kicks in, which I'm also skeptical of by the way.
Had a conversation today with a friend (who has actually taken four jabs, 2 sinopharm followed by 2 pfizer with zero side fx, and we have a good skit about it often. I even tried sticking a spoon to the cunt) about the Australian situation and we concluded that if lockdowns were to be used, then the snap Aussie version seems to be the least painful way to do it vs the Irish restrictions-since-January way. I gave you 1 nil at half time on that one did I not? I'm not so full of myself to rule out learning things, although the second half is only kicking off as the Aussie situation is evolving as we speak. They aren't half authoritarian about it though but I'm not ruling out giving you the 2 nil if it goes that way. So yeah, given the existential threat of the delta variant, can you show me anywhere in the world that vaccinations have reduced the transmission rather than increased transmission of it? I can't find any and indeed have coincidental evidence of cases increasing with the vaccination rollout that I can draw up if you like.
Quote from: Giggles on August 04, 2021, 08:39:12 PM
Maybe it's a bit unfair to compare last year's strain with this summer's deadly delta mutation. But sure I suppose it's all the young kids fault isn't it, with their partying and whatnot.
And let's not forget about the insanely reduced risk for those in whom the delta wave is most prevalent. Those crazy bastards living their lives in the face of the deadly threat of deep sleep brainwave patterns!
QuoteBut, supposedly most (not all, disclaimer, blah blah) of those dying and/or ending up in hospital with the delta variant are...not vaccinated. So, it's working and it's not working.
Further to that: https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1423322271503028228 (link from news station in tweet). This is not "told you so", I genuinely mean it when I say I hope the thing works for the vulnerable even if I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole as of now due to the experimental nature of it and the obvious lies that taking it gets us back to normal. I'd like it to work so that the benefits outweigh the risks (then I too, along with my family who I feel a certain sense of responsibility towards, can participate in the fucked up new normal which is at this stage inevitable) and then when it is foisted upon my kids, at least I can say that the reason I didn't stand up and say no is because I thought it would do them some good. It's a fucking hard sell for my gut and the little voice nagging away in the back of my head though. Maybe if they were to offer 30 pieces of silver for each of the kids it might ease my conscience somewhat...
... or maybe kebabs for jabs will be enough to get the kids to beg for it all by themselves, or a ticket to Electric Picnic, or maybe the shitty Feile in Birdhill might do it.. it gets worse the more I think about it and yet it goes full steam ahead.
Show of hands, who here would give this shit to their kids, given the level of risk they face from covid vs the potential risk they face from taking the shot? I've had my own lads off playing with their pals as normal since about May 2020 so it doesn't seem worth it, but this is not an emotional appeal; I'm genuinely curious whether anyone here would give it to their own given the unknowns involved. And for the record everyone in my house has had the full schedule of shots, but not the flu jab and not this shit (the higher the possibility of viral mutation, the less likely that this targeted stuff will actually work to any noticeable degree. And why do we think that the flu shot can't actually even be proven to work even though it has been out for years....? It's a case of "well you didn't get flu so it must have worked", but I smoke cigarettes every day and I also didn't get the flu, so does smoking prevent flu?, of course not. Sick of this hard sell bullshit with no actual provable science to back any of it up.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 05, 2021, 09:44:08 PM
you can't also say it is because of the vaccine which is specifically tailored to the spike protein on the alpha variant, so which is it?
This paper is too technical for me to fully get my head around in the time I have right now, but the conclusion in the first two paragraphs of the Discussion section are clear enough. You can scan around the rest of the paper to see basically what they do in it - testing serum from various individuals:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03777-9
Quotea two-dose regimen generated high sero-neutralization levels against the Alpha, Beta and Delta variants in individuals sampled at week 8 to week 16 after vaccination
I don't know if there are any studies that do such a direct ex vivo study using serum samples and find opposite results.
I will certainly get a read of that, but if it is correct, then we would already be done with restrictions, (even if not for all, then at least for the vaccinated) would we not? Is the very existence of this study not proof that, as I have said from the beginning, that the whole vaccination programme is actually a giant experiment?
You've probably missed my edit to my last post, which I had written before I saw your link, so I'll quote myself here:
Quote
Quote
But, supposedly most (not all, disclaimer, blah blah) of those dying and/or ending up in hospital with the delta variant are...not vaccinated. So, it's working and it's not working.
Further to that: https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli/status/1423322271503028228 (link from news station in tweet). This is not "told you so", I genuinely mean it when I say I hope the thing works for the vulnerable even if I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole as of now due to the experimental nature of it and the obvious lies that taking it gets us back to normal. I'd like it to work so that the benefits outweigh the risks (then I too, along with my family who I feel a certain sense of responsibility towards, can participate in the fucked up new normal which is at this stage inevitable) and then when it is foisted upon my kids, at least I can say that the reason I didn't stand up and say no is because I thought it would do them some good. It's a fucking hard sell for my gut and the little voice nagging away in the back of my head though. Maybe if they were to offer 30 pieces of silver for each of the kids it might ease my conscience somewhat...
... or maybe kebabs for jabs will be enough to get the kids to beg for it all by themselves, or a ticket to Electric Picnic, or maybe the shitty Feile in Birdhill might do it.. it gets worse the more I think about it and yet it goes full steam ahead.
Show of hands, who here would give this shit to their kids, given the level of risk they face from covid vs the potential risk they face from taking the shot? I've had my own lads off playing with their pals as normal since about May 2020 so it doesn't seem worth it, but this is not an emotional appeal; I'm genuinely curious whether anyone here would give it to their own given the unknowns involved. And for the record everyone in my house has had the full schedule of shots, but not the flu jab and not this shit (the higher the possibility of viral mutation, the less likely that this targeted stuff will actually work to any noticeable degree. And why do we think that the flu shot can't actually even be proven to work even though it has been out for years....? It's a case of "well you didn't get flu so it must have worked", but I smoke cigarettes every day and I also didn't get the flu, so does smoking prevent flu?, of course not. Sick of this hard sell bullshit with no actual provable science to back any of it up.
Beyond all of that I'll still read the Nature article because I do reckon that science has an actual part to play in this worldwide farce.
What's happening in Israel is interesting alright, and Israel's response in general is quite interesting. For example, although you're showing us that in order to say that it's bullshit, the doctor who is talking there is actually in favour of the third dose as a solution, so you need to take that into account in what he's saying/why he may be saying it:
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israels-two-week-window-to-halt-the-4th-covid-19-wave-675199
His isn't the only voice either, and it's kinda funny to talk about 95% of something when you only have a sample of ~60 patients. In other hospitals in Israel they are convinced that even the hospitalizations even in old people are less serious symptomatically than they were:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-hospitalized-covid-patients-have-milder-illnesses-doctors-say-1.10031662
So, who to believe? The doctors saying the vaccine is working, because although cases are shooting up, hospitalizations and their gravity seem to be down? Or the doctors saying that things are starting to get as bad as they were, because the vaccine is losing effectiveness, so hurry up with the third doses...?
I know somebody who got covid twice, symptoms and all. She got it last Halloween and is just getting over her second dose now. Not a bother on her. She works in a hostel, so she's exposed to people travelling from anywhere.
She's about 25, I don't think she's vaccinated. What would be the point in getting vaccinated, if she's not high risk and if it doesn't seem to be doing much to stop the spread?
But what about D'Variant
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 05, 2021, 11:08:33 PM
What's happening in Israel is interesting alright, and Israel's response in general is quite interesting. For example, although you're showing us that in order to say that it's bullshit, the doctor who is talking there is actually in favour of the third dose as a solution, so you need to take that into account in what he's saying/why he may be saying it:
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israels-two-week-window-to-halt-the-4th-covid-19-wave-675199
His isn't the only voice either, and it's kinda funny to talk about 95% of something when you only have a sample of ~60 patients. In other hospitals in Israel they are convinced that even the hospitalizations even in old people are less serious symptomatically than they were:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-hospitalized-covid-patients-have-milder-illnesses-doctors-say-1.10031662
So, who to believe? The doctors saying the vaccine is working, because although cases are shooting up, hospitalizations and their gravity seem to be down? Or the doctors saying that things are starting to get as bad as they were, because the vaccine is losing effectiveness, so hurry up with the third doses...?
I'm leaning towards the vaccines actually reducing the severity of the disease, even without the booster, but as long as the testing is done with the same gusto as is currently the trend it's going to make things look like it isn't working because the end game with the vaccines was never to prevent transmission as I understood it, but more to bring it back into common cold/ light flu territory. As long as it does the trick for the old and vulnerable, I'm all for it but there are competing interests in the testing industry and the vaccine industry and where we are at now is the two clashing to the extent that one is making the other look bad.
In Irish news, it's pretty funny to see that after Varadkar was caught at Zappone's bash in the hotel, that the rules on live music and outdoor gatherings have been relaxed. Got to appease the masses or they'll want his head!
[quote author=astfgyl
In Irish news, it's pretty funny to see that after Varadkar was caught at Zappone's bash in the hotel, that the rules on live music and outdoor gatherings have been relaxed. Got to appease the masses or they'll want his head!
[/quote]
And such a coincidence that they're planning to ease maternity restrictions after it's revealed that Simon Harris's missus is pregnant.
They make me feel sick... better get tested to be on the safe side
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8IWqODXEAQ7qnX?format=jpg&name=small)
:laugh: come on lads
Good interview here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/07/prof-francois-balloux-the-pandemic-has-created-a-market-for-gloom-and-doom
Standing in the queue in a shop and I see Jennifer Aniston on the front page of the Daily Mail... going on about how she's ditching her non vaccinated friends. What a great fucking example to set for humanity.
Quote from: Giggles on August 07, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Standing in the queue in a shop and I see Jennifer Aniston on the front page of the Daily Mail... going on about how she's ditching her non vaccinated friends. What a great fucking example to set for humanity.
"I'll be there for youuuuuuu unless you are vaccinateddddd"
Quote from: Giggles on August 07, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Standing in the queue in a shop and I see Jennifer Aniston on the front page of the Daily Mail... going on about how she's ditching her non vaccinated friends. What a great fucking example to set for humanity.
Since when are Hollywood glamour props expected to set a good example for humanity??
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 07, 2021, 09:33:38 PM
Quote from: Giggles on August 07, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Standing in the queue in a shop and I see Jennifer Aniston on the front page of the Daily Mail... going on about how she's ditching her non vaccinated friends. What a great fucking example to set for humanity.
Since when are Hollywood glamour props expected to set a good example for humanity??
To be fair to her I read Jennifer's explanation yesterday and it's perfectly reasonable the way she wants to protect others. It's not about herself at all, fair play to her. Imagine that, people thinking about others, disgraceful carry on in this day and age.
Quote from: Giggles on August 07, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Standing in the queue in a shop and I see Jennifer Aniston on the front page of the Daily Mail... going on about how she's ditching her non vaccinated friends. What a great fucking example to set for humanity.
Don't get vaccinated, and you too can reduce the risk of encountering vapid celebrity types. :laugh:
Quote from: Snare on August 07, 2021, 10:56:38 PM
To be fair to her I read Jennifer's explanation yesterday and it's perfectly reasonable the way she wants to protect others. It's not about herself at all, fair play to her. Imagine that, people thinking about others, disgraceful carry on in this day and age.
A few pages back, I mentioned how nobody seems to be talking about the family members who are being ostracised for not having the vaccine. Banned from attending birthdays/weddings etc or even just calling over for tea. Not even allowed to meet outside, being slandered as anti vaxxer etc. Some people are literally being told by their family "We're not speaking to you again unless you get the vaccine". Not a text, not a phone call, nothing.
So yeah, I do find it particularly disgraceful that she is being lauded on the front page as some sort of shining example to set. I don't agree with it, I think it comes across as "I am right and you are wrong", when in reality, nobody knows what the fuck is going on.
Quote from: Giggles on August 08, 2021, 10:01:16 AM
Quote from: Snare on August 07, 2021, 10:56:38 PM
To be fair to her I read Jennifer's explanation yesterday and it's perfectly reasonable the way she wants to protect others. It's not about herself at all, fair play to her. Imagine that, people thinking about others, disgraceful carry on in this day and age.
A few pages back, I mentioned how nobody seems to be talking about the family members who are being ostracised for not having the vaccine. Banned from attending birthdays/weddings etc or even just calling over for tea. Not even allowed to meet outside, being slandered as anti vaxxer etc. Some people are literally being told by their family "We're not speaking to you again unless you get the vaccine". Not a text, not a phone call, nothing.
So yeah, I do find it particularly disgraceful that she is being lauded on the front page as some sort of shining example to set. I don't agree with it, I think it comes across as "I am right and you are wrong", when in reality, nobody knows what the fuck is going on.
Its frightening to think there are people being treated like this by their own families.
Its even more frightening to think of the kind of dull, thick, moronic, stupid fucking mong cunts that comprise these families.
I'm cringing at the possibility of vaccinated people actually distancing themselves from unvaccinated people because of Jennifer Aniston.
She won't be there for you...
Or had that joke been made already?
Edit*ah seemingly a version of that has been made*
Ricky Gervais wasn't hard enough on the cunts.
Back in the hometown for a few weeks, and I've made plans to visit my buddy and have dinner with him and his family tonight. Was looking forward to it as I haven't had the craic with them in about 5 years.
Just got a phone call from him, he says that his sister is flying out for work in a few days, and she has concerns about me calling over because I'm unvaccinated. She said she doesn't want to risk getting covid from me and fucking up her job, so now we have to eat outside and I'm not allowed into the house.
Not a bother on her visiting a plethora of cafes, restaurants, pubs and eating indoors up and down the country while she's been on her holidays over the last two weeks, but no, it's the unvaccinated cunt who doesn't have the privilege of visiting these confined spaces that will surely make her sick. Buzzkill.
That sucks. How are you going to dick their glasses if you can't get into the house??
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 08, 2021, 07:34:11 PM
That sucks. How are you going to dick their glasses if you can't get into the house??
:laugh: :abbath: well played.
Got the 2nd Moderna yesterday, along with my wife. Both suffering now, like being hit by a truck, fever and shakes, can't sleep a wink. Great fun for both of us to be looking after a young child with. Off work sick at least.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 07, 2021, 08:10:58 PM
Good interview here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/07/prof-francois-balloux-the-pandemic-has-created-a-market-for-gloom-and-doom
Been following Prof. Balloux since the kick off of all of this. Seems like a reasonable chap, and (shock, horror!) appears to offer hope in a lot of his writings/interviews.
Quote from: Snare on August 07, 2021, 10:56:38 PM
To be fair to her I read Jennifer's explanation yesterday and it's perfectly reasonable the way she wants to protect others. It's not about herself at all, fair play to her. Imagine that, people thinking about others, disgraceful carry on in this day and age.
How far does that caring about others go? Would you go as far as vaccinating children (with unknown results) to protect the aged? Given the logic involved here, shouldn't everybody just stay away from everyone else forever, in case say someone has an asymptomatic common cold infection and passes it on to someone else who in turn passes it to someone else and eventually in their turn passes it to an 80-plus year old with several co-morbidities in a nursing home receiving end of life care and it ends up being the straw that breaks the camel's back for them? If we go too far down that road of being propagandized into doing it for others, then that is the logical conclusion.
Also, I don't know if it has escaped you, but getting vaccinated doesn't stop transmission or infection, and only possibly reduces the symptoms for those infected, so even if you are vaccinated you can still be the granny killer you never wanted to be by simply living your life as you did up until 2020.
As for Jennifer Aniston..
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8LoRCqWUAcHdbE?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: ochoill on August 09, 2021, 07:24:48 AM
Got the 2nd Moderna yesterday, along with my wife. Both suffering now, like being hit by a truck, fever and shakes, can't sleep a wink. Great fun for both of us to be looking after a young child with. Off work sick at least.
Ye'll be grand. By all accounts you'll only get the day out of it before you have to go back to work. Let us know how long before it expires on the vaccine pass. Just don't be a Jennifer Aniston about it!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 08, 2021, 07:34:11 PM
That sucks. How are you going to dick their glasses if you can't get into the house??
:laugh: :laugh:
I was let inside and was greeted with a big hug from the supposed antagonist. Dinner/craic as normal with absolutely no covid talk.
Fuck Jennifer Aniston :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on August 09, 2021, 11:40:35 AMQuote from: ochoill on August 09, 2021, 07:24:48 AMGot the 2nd Moderna yesterday, along with my wife. Both suffering now, like being hit by a truck, fever and shakes, can't sleep a wink. Great fun for both of us to be looking after a young child with. Off work sick at least.
Ye'll be grand. By all accounts you'll only get the day out of it before you have to go back to work. Let us know how long before it expires on the vaccine pass. Just don't be a Jennifer Aniston about it!
Got a photo of them putting together the vaccine cert there:
(https://i.imgur.com/JFSvUHY.jpg)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :abbath:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
We have a winner! Well played!
Bravo!
Fuck, went to change my avatar to that and now I can't find the original. Can hardly see how funny it is. Bollocks.
If you haven't seen the Joe Rogan video where he uses his massive mental capacity to draw enormous conclusions from reading one sentence from the abstract of a 2015 paper about vaccines, well, don't bother. Here's the author of that paper explaining how Rogan's got it all wrong:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2021/08/08/joe-rogan-is-getting-this-completely-wrong-says-the-scientist-who-conducted-the-vaccine-study/
Was listening to Sam Harris' podcast on vaccinations fr a couple of weeks ago, which was a decent listen. He got a ton of a backlash on Twitter from people for going fairly hard against people like Bret Weinstein (who he's had on his podcast) and Joe Rogan. Then on his Ask Me Anything episode just last week, he doubled down even more on his stance when responding to the backlash from the first one. He made some well considered points around podcasters or people with a platform spreading misinformation and why they should be taking responsibility.
You'll get both of them on Spotify if anybody is arsed in hearing them.
At this stage live music should begin again and indoor gigs also. Seems fine up north, why not down here? Literally paddy last as usual
Quote from: Necro Red on August 11, 2021, 05:46:41 PM
At this stage live music should begin again and indoor gigs also. Seems fine up north, why not down here? Literally paddy last as usual
Live outdoor music should have happened weeks ago. At this stage we have 75% of the population fully vaccinated. By September they reckon they'll have all adults done. So start of September open the indoor gigs. And tell people now.
How do they reckon they'll have all adults done?
Think they've said 90% of adults.
QuoteA woman's fully vaccinated father died from COVID-19, with her saying she "can't imagine how much more he would have suffered if he had not gotten the vaccine."
Yes she did say that. And this was also said..
QuoteAccording to Jan Patterson, an infectious disease specialist at UT Health, Rodriguez was right in her assessment, that her father would have suffered more if he had not been vaccinated."
He died! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Get vaccinated for a fucking quicker death! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Sources: https://www.newsweek.com/daughter-fully-vaccinated-man-who-died-rare-covid-breakthrough-case-supports-shots-1618352
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
https://youtu.be/NVFLdnDEjaI?t=382
The surprising thing for me is that stuff gets on the telly at all. It's not new news btw it goes back a few weeks but fuck me is this insane and reminds me of the shite we have been getting served up for the last 18 months.
Not hearing much about Sweden these days for some reason, but a good bit about Australia. Looks like the Queensland lockdown is finished though so there is that. For now.
1914, full page anti-small pox vax ad taken out in the New York Tribune. The rationale adopted seems familiar...
https://imgur.com/vuwI6g5
Sourced from reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/aqu98b/an_editorial_cartoon_about_the_antivax_movement/egjh607?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 13, 2021, 03:33:40 PM
1914, full page anti-small pox vax ad taken out in the New York Tribune. The rationale adopted seems familiar...
https://imgur.com/vuwI6g5
Indeed the bullshit must be called from all sides, and there's a lot of it to draw from. Is that ad any worse than the CMO saying not to talk to people, in spite of the fact that nobody actually knows how the virus is transmitted? It isn't really even though the ad was clearly horseshit.
Anything in there about dying a better death? Because that's where we are currently at with the propaganda from the pro side.
Does this rationale seem familiar while we're here?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/mcs/media/images/51959000/jpg/_51959051_franktodressedasamediaevalplaguedoctor.jpg)
I am also firmly of the belief that the whole backlash on vaccines is due to the attempts at mandating these vaccines via the passport and the constant push to take them from people who couldn't be trusted as far as they could be thrown, and less so to do with the perceived danger inherent in them. Making them open source could have gone a long way toward combating this but alas there was ridiculous fortunes to be made and so it wasn't to be.
As for the term "Anti-Vaxxer" applied to those who dissent or question the official narrative, well that's just as thick as shit just like it's as thick as shit to say all vaccines don't work because one doesn't like a particular type. I don't like lamb. Does that make me a vegetarian? Of course not. I also don't care if anyone else eats lamb as long as they don't try to force me to do so.
Newstalk had a piece on Ivermectin this morning as well. Amazing how much more trialing that this particular cheap and effective cure needs to go through even though it has been safely given to both humans and animals for about half a century, but those vaccines were absolutely fucking banged out using the infrastructure developed during GAVI's "Decade of Vaccines", with minimal approval due to the emergency nature of the situation. (https://medium.com/future-crunch/a-decade-of-vaccines-7f86a432d771 bit on that there from a neutral perspective and article not saying it's a bad thing, although a picture does paint a thousand words)
Then again, we've been over all of this for the last year or so and I'm just going to go back to finding things to laugh at for the next while, as we patiently await the results of the vaccine trials which are currently underway worldwide. Here's hoping they work!
https://dis-blog.thalesgroup.com/identity-biometric-solutions/2021/07/27/how-digital-id-can-help-citizens-access-government-services-from-anywhere
I think I made mention of this lark somewhere along the way....
"So-called digital 'vaccination passports' will play a key role in enabling citizens to access all manner of services and will act as a precursor to the rollout of mobile digital IDs."
No way, who would have seen that coming!?
It is crazy the amount of conspiracies that people so readily dismissed as absurd only 6 months ago are now coming to fruition. Not saying what had been done is right or wrong btw.
There's a living meta analysis of the major prophylactic treatments of COVID:
https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n949
I looked this up when Lex Fridman had whichever Weinstein brother on who was lauding ivermectin. In short, even by-passing the question of whether it is safe or not, the uncertainty of the studies that have been carried out on it couldn't really be any higher. In other words, anyone who is convinced ivermectin works, such as Weinstein, is relying on either anecdotal or unreliable evidence. So, you may think ivermectin is being unfairly subjected to a demand for more trials, but actually it is only being subjected to a demand for methodologically rigorous ones which, as you can see from the bmj meta analysis there, have not yet been forth-coming.
Methodologically rigourous? Do you mean like the vaccine trials, which are published online and are an absolute joke (https://media.tghn.org/medialibrary/2020/11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020_Pfizer_BioNTech.pdf)? RCT where the placebo group were unblinded before the end of the study period, thus eliminating the control group? Sounds sort of unbelievable but it happened. New side effects added continuously to the safety data as they emerge? Sounds about right. In fact here's a favourite of mine regarding the trials from that BMJ you mention.. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037 and another from same author also regarding the trials https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/
Here's a meta-analysis of IVM trials: https://ivmmeta.com/ which you can peruse in your own time.
I haven't once listened to this Weinstein chap on any of it btw (I did mean to but never got around to it), but I have heard a good bit from Pierre Kory, who was on Newstalk speaking to Pat Kenny about IVM (https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-pat-kenny-show/an-icu-specialist-says-ivermectin-is-the-drug-that-can-end-the-pandemic). My own opinion is that both IVM and the vaccines should be used against the disease. Say for example with breakthrough cases, it's pure folly not to try cheap and safe drugs even if the results are 50/50. IVM is not the only one either and indeed lots of doctors recommend a multi-layered approach and including steroids as part of the recovery effort along with the likes of IVM. Sure look at the state of the results from Remdesivir and that is routinely used in treating C19 patients. Why? It does fuck all but it's worth plenty of coin.
Anyway, proper trials or no proper trials this shit is already certain to continue for years to come... https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-moderna-seen-reaping-billions-covid-19-vaccine-booster-market-2021-08-13/
Lastly, a serious and not being a smartarse question for those who have taken the shot: How do you all feel about the boosters, and the vaccine passes you have expiring every year thus virtually ensuring your continued participation? Is it a case of "all aboard!" or do any of you feel like it might have been slightly mis-sold?
Rigorous/robust methodology = methodology that can be reproduced and reliably give similar results within a stated statistical margin.
If someone fucks up the execution of the methodology, say by unblinding the placebo group, that doesn't mean the methodology is in question. If someone followed the same methodology properly, they should find that if the treatment/vaccine is significantly effective, then it will be significantly different to the control group regardless of whether they were unblinded (though of course, you need at least one proper sized unblinded group to conclude this). The methodology itself is in question in too many of the ivermectin studies. The
ivermectin advocating meta analysis you shared barely mentions such questions, and when it does it explains away why they may not be important, so I don't know what exactly you think it offers over the bmj meta analysis of prophylactics (including ivermectin) that I shared: https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n949
But anyway, here's why we're even talking about ivermectin, because you said this;
QuoteAmazing how much more trialing that this particular cheap and effective cure needs to go through
This is false. It doesn't need to go through "more" trialing. It needs to go through the same level of proper trialing. Even if you think the vaccine trials have been flawed, and let's even grant they have, it's ridiculous to even imagine that ivermectin has been through nearly the same amount of trialing
for COVID. Lots of drugs are considered "safe", but that's not the criteria for doling them out willy-nilly for a particular medical reason.
The WHO has explicitly recommended against using remdesivir btw, stating there is no hard evidence it has any meaningful impact on COVID mortality. I'm pretty sure that's been mentioned before. They recommend against ivermectin too, for the same reason,
except in the case of clinical trials on ivermectin, so they haven't closed that door. Unfortunately, again much like the hydroxychloroquine story, the ones closing the doors are the ones designing and carrying out the clinical trials, including the rather large Egyptian one retracted last month.
But yes, we agree that proprietary rights for the vaccines should never have been allowed to reside in the hands of corporate interests. Hardly surprising I'd think that though.
QuoteBut yes, we agree that proprietary rights for the vaccines should never have been allowed to reside in the hands of corporate interests. Hardly surprising I'd think that though.
It's hardly surprising that I would think that either but then you probably think I'm some sort of alt-right, Trump loving, fundamentalist, pro-christian, low IQ, Dole drawing, ridiculous-conspiracy-theory-loving, fox-watching, defy-the-narrative-no-matter-what, the-earth-is-flat-because-I-haven't-seen-it-being-round sort of stupid cunt and I'm happy to say that none of that shit actually applies to me and I have always seen myself as a leftist of sorts but no matter what ideology one clings to, anyone who isn't making money off of this fucked up worldwide switcharoo should be able to see it for what it is; a whole load of bollix from top to bottom.
You're here arguing about IVM being not properly trialed when the vaccines you are defending so hard have equally (and actually in a worse way) been skimped on in terms of actual real-world efficacy. I bet you didn't even read the trial data yourself even though I've linked it there. The data cannot actually be proved and you're the scientist and I'm the crazy, conspiracy-pushing idiot and yet I didn't buy in as hard as you did (if you read my posts I've even gone as far as saying I might take the vaccine once the data is finalised but can you tell me why it wasn't simply given to the extremely well-defined vulnerable cohort instead of blanket
emergency authorisation? Bet you can't logically justify that.) especially taking into account how you love schooling lads about critical thinking. Side effects being added and confirmed with fuck all fanfare all the time https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/oxfordastrazeneca-vaccine-rare-blood-clot-syndrome-has-high-mortality-rate. I say side effects but in fact efficacy against developing Covid hasn't been proved so these are actually the main known effects and not the ones on the side at all.
Fucking ideologies and fucking idolatry.
The WHO have recommended against Remdesivir? Well they have also also recommended stopping asymptomatic testing outside of a very select few groups and recommended against diagnosis over a certain ct value (https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2021-who-information-notice-for-ivd-users-2020-05) but I bet you didn't encounter those nuggets on your travels... "Widespread screening of asymptomatic individuals is not a currently recommended strategy due to the significant costs
associated with it and the
lack of data on its operational effectiveness" (https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/342002/WHO-2019-nCoV-lab-testing-2021.1-eng.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y). Here, have the WHO take on the available vaccines altogether and don't pay any heed to what I say:
Quote"Disclaimer
These landscape documents have been prepared by the World Health Organization (WHO) for information purposes only concerning the 2019-2020 pandemic of the novel coronavirus. Inclusion of any particular product or entity in any of these landscape documents does not constitute, and shall not be deemed or construed as, any approval or endorsement by WHO of such product or entity (or any of its businesses or activities). While WHO takes reasonable steps to verify the accuracy of the information presented in these landscape documents, WHO does not make any (and hereby disclaims all) representations and warranties regarding the accuracy, completeness, fitness for a particular purpose (including any of the aforementioned purposes), quality, safety, efficacy, merchantability and/or non-infringement of any information provided in these landscape documents and/or of any of the products referenced therein. WHO also disclaims any and all liability or responsibility whatsoever for any death, disability, injury, suffering, loss, damage or other prejudice of any kind that may arise from or in connection with the procurement, distribution or use of any product included in any of these landscape documents."
Yes they are indeed covering their arses. Here's the source for that https://covid-nma.com/vaccines/mapping/
You can use the above link to see for yourself rather than anything I might say. Seriously, I am amazed that someone who studies confirmation bias and the money behind the publication of peer-reviewed papers could be so myopic about the situation to the extent that they seem to think the vaccines are based on something less of a wing-and-a-prayer basis than IVM or HCQ or indeed anything else on offer. Even I can concede that the vaccines might work but you seemingly can't possibly concede that there might be another way out than what is being fed to you by the paid propaganda.
Is there any chance that you might be as propagandized as the poor bastards who won't as much as take a Tetanus shot because they think that the MMR jab causes Autism?
None of this whole shit, social restrictions or mandatory masking or mandatory vaccinations is actually a genuinely mandatory thing in any way that it will ever legally hold up. Every bit of all of this is done by consent. Stop consenting and it will end quicker. Just say No.
"This is false"?
Come on to fuck, the IVM has actually been through more rigourous trials than any of the vaccine candidates and you well know it and you also know damn well that none of the vaccines have actually been proved to actually work. I can understand why you might be biased though, having taken one of them. And before this notion gets going in earnest that any of the vaccines finished off the "pandemic", here's a bit about how the last few ended: https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/19/how-the-covid-pandemic-ends-scientists-look-to-the-past-to-see-the-future/
Delta Variant?: Go back to sleep on that one. It's over with or without the shots. Rigourous/Robust trials me hole. Idoelogy/Idolatry all the way with this shit. Totems galore. So your vaccine protects you from the version that has already passed? Funny how you never hear of anyone infected with the OG version these days... Actually while we're at it, how many were naturally infected with the Alpha and subsequently got roasted with the Delta? Go look that up.
I can't wait to see which unimportant language-slip you pull me up over here.
Ivermectin Advocating?.. Really? The pro-vaccination narrative has gotten so out of control that it's being said in the media that taking the shot gives you a better death than you might get if you didn't take it. It has all gone too far.
I could go on and on but I'm actually getting bored of people pretending that they can't see it for what it is and I'm gone to telling myself that people in general must actually be able to see it but have decided to play along because it might be easier in the long run to pretend they were on board with shit going demented for no proper reason. Covid will soon be over but the changes will be permanent and it will be the future generations who will have to live with them. We can then pat ourselves on the back for ushering in the future, and weren't we all great to play along..
Quote from: astfgyl on August 14, 2021, 01:10:00 AM
QuoteBut yes, we agree that proprietary rights for the vaccines should never have been allowed to reside in the hands of corporate interests. Hardly surprising I'd think that though.
It's hardly surprising that I would think that either but then you probably think I'm some sort of alt-right, Trump loving, fundamentalist, pro-christian, low IQ, Dole drawing, ridiculous-conspiracy-theory-loving, fox-watching, defy-the-narrative-no-matter-what, the-earth-is-flat-because-I-haven't-seen-it-being-round sort of stupid cunt and I'm happy to say that none of that shit actually applies to me and I have always seen myself as a leftist of sorts but no matter what ideology one clings to, anyone who isn't making money off of this fucked up worldwide switcharoo should be able to see it for what it is; a whole load of bollix from top to bottom.
Dude, chill out. Not even an iota of all that went through my mind when I said, "Hardly surprising I'd think that though." Quite the opposite, I was drawing on the socialism stereotype that's shoved on me here and giving it a, "Well, this stereotype has to get me a pass on
this at least!"
Objectively, I think the bjm meta analysis is going to be more reliable than a meta analysis on a site that is pushing ivermectin as a treatment,
especially given bjm's open discussion policy on its opinion/blog pages. And, when you look into the details just a little bit, it's pretty clear that the ivmmeta.com analysis is full of white-washing and explaining away. And people pushing the vaccine are doing the same.
I know. Here's something I said earlier today elsewhere for example:
QuoteHonestly, I think total transparency is the only response [to the anti-COVID-vax movement]. Not in brief bursts, but a long-term policy for governments to be fully transparent about what they do and what they don't know. This hasn't been the case in most countries, so I don't blame anyone for being suspicious.
I think I could almost go so far as to say that if you don't understand the suspicion and distrust of the current anti-vax movement, then you're being as irrational with respect to understanding them as we presume they are being with respect to understanding the vax programme.
Either way, personally, I find the vaccine science more reliable than the ivm science I have seen so far. That may seem outlandish to you, but that's the way I see it. Despite all the shenanigans about how it's being rolled out (incidentally, didn't most countries begin by targeting the most vulnerable?), despite the billions that are being made off it, despite many things, I still find the science behind it more reliable than the ivm science. And I'm not biased against the ivm science, not in the way, for example, you began by being biased against the very bio-technology half of the vaccines are based on. And if ivm really did what is claimed, then that would be awesome. But I've yet to see it. You see it, I don't.
Went through Dublin Airport yesterday to UK and no mention of the vaccine cert. I never travelled during the last 18 months but I gather you had to provide evidence of negative covid to get on the plane?
Nothing yesterday. Just the same check in procedure as pre covid. You could get up and get served at the bar as well.
I went out for dinner and pints in athlone the other night. First place scanned in the vaccine cert. Second place just had a visual check of it. Third place was like "you all have your vaccine certs, yeah? In you come".
These fecking things are obsolete already by the looks of it. I'm going to a soccer match today with full house attendance. Will be interesting to see how 'normal' the experience is.
We are hyper about this thing here in Ireland but I think we are even joining the rest of the world and just 'chucking it' at this stage.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 14, 2021, 01:39:13 AM
Dude, chill out. Not even an iota of all that went through my mind when I said, "Hardly surprising I'd think that though." Quite the opposite, I was drawing on the socialism stereotype that's shoved on me here and giving it a, "Well, this stereotype has to get me a pass on this at least!"
Sorry man, I did get a bit over-exuberant there, and I agree wholly about the open-source argument. Sometimes this stuff drives me wrong and I guess I'm thinking that I must be stereotyped as some sort of thick cunt for going against all this lark, thrown in with the trump crowd. Fair enough you say the vaccine science is sound, but it is only on an emergency licence and that was granted on trial results that showed close to 100% efficacy when that is clearly not the case anywhere in the world, (this can easily be checked by looking up the most vaccinated countries and seeing how it's going for them, or comparing ICU numbers with the same time last year before any vaccines were available) so in no way is that science settled any more than the IVM. It's also worth noting that the IVM is being used on sick people where the vaccine is being banged out indiscriminately, so it is in fact far more difficult to measure its' effect in any meaningful way as I see it. Until they start vaccinating people and then giving them Covid, I can't see how it can be proved. And that also can't be done because nobody knows how to give somebody Covid in the first place. (Sounds unbelievable but that's a fact). In some pro-vaccine news, I've been reading a bit about Novavax, which sounds promising so far but will suffer from the same provability as I've described for the other ones as none of them are designed to be sterilising vaccines anyway.
Anyway, back to the funny stuff from Australian governments: https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/new-lockdown-rules-for-sydney-explained-as-singles-bubbles-burst-permits-brought-in-to-fight-delta/news-story/da861c5718634b39dde76d6f927192d3
They have really gone overboard with the authoritarian buzz.
Who has been saying that about the vaccine trials? Thousands of volunteers worldwide were infected with COVID, both prior to, during, and in the final phases of vaccine development. Here's one of the organizations that was helping recruit volunteers:
https://www.1daysooner.org/how
QuoteBefore conducting a challenge trial to test vaccines, scientists must understand the smallest dose of the coronavirus that causes infection. This characterization study, which began in the UK in February 2021, starts by exposing a few participants to a very low viral dose. If a majority of those participants are infected, then a dose expansion phase occurs to test the dose in a total of about 20 people. If a majority of the initially dosed group is not infected, then a higher dose is tested among a few participants, and the process is repeated several times as needed.
Iran going into another lockdown. Iran and its response is surely a tricky one to fit into any narrative other than, "If let out of control, this COVID thing really fucks up your health system and lives are lost."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/14/iran-impose-six-day-lockdown-combat-coronavirus-fifth-wave
I have been saying that about the vaccine trials. At the time of approval no such challenge trials had been carried out on any of the vaccine candidates.
The challenge trials done by Imperial College and University of Oxford were not done on those who had received any of the vaccines. Imperial College are using seronegative volunteers and Oxford using seropositive volunteers. No mention of vaccinated volunteers as of yet. The quote you have there actually says this. It says it is a characterization study. The vaccine challenge trials have not started anywhere. So I stand by my statement that the efficacy of these candidates cannot be reliably measured until someone gives the thing and then tries to infect the recipient with the virus. The emergency approval of the vaccines was based on exaggerated results.
QuoteRESULTS
A total of 43,548 participants underwent randomization, of whom 43,448 received
injections: 21,720 with BNT162b2 and 21,728 with placebo. There were 8 cases of
Covid-19 with onset at least 7 days after the second dose among participants assigned to receive BNT162b2 and 162 cases among those assigned to placebo;
BNT162b2 was 95% effective in preventing Covid-19 (95% credible interval, 90.3 to
97.6). Similar vaccine efficacy (generally 90 to 100%) was observed across subgroups
defined by age, sex, race, ethnicity, baseline body-mass index, and the presence of
coexisting conditions. Among 10 cases of severe Covid-19 with onset after the first
dose, 9 occurred in placebo recipients and 1 in a BNT162b2 recipient. The safety
profile of BNT162b2 was characterized by short-term, mild-to-moderate pain at the
injection site, fatigue, and headache. The incidence of serious adverse events was
low and was similar in the vaccine and placebo groups.
CONCLUSIONS
A two-dose regimen of BNT162b2 conferred 95% protection against Covid-19 in
persons 16 years of age or older. Safety over a median of 2 months was similar to
that of other viral vaccines. (Funded by BioNTech and Pfizer; ClinicalTrials.gov
number, NCT04368728.)
Look at the results there and then look at the conclusions. It's ridiculous. It's also done in healthy young volunteers who regularly test positive but do not regularly end up in ICU or die. Have to go to the shop but I'll use those results to calculate the risk reduction in a few when I get back. Edit: Ah bollix to it, Peter Doshi has made a far better argument around the trials in the BMJ: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/26/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-lets-be-cautious-and-first-see-the-full-data/ Well worth a read.
Iran? "If let out of control, this COVID thing really fucks up your health system and lives are lost." Who funds The Guardian?
Edit: Actually fuck who funds the papers, who funds the health services? Who made the decision to have a blank cheque for Covid and didn't have the foresight to beef up the health services instead of the billions spent on testing and tracing? People say things like that would take too long etc, but that was at the start of 2020 and we are now in the latter half of 2021 so we could all be well on the way.
Sweden. Florida. Texas. How do those fit into that narrative?
Israel. Iceland. Seychelles. Gibraltar. What's the narrative for those places?
Sweden, Florida, Texas, Israel, Iceland, Seychelles, Gibraltar, etc., etc., are not political and economic outsiders. Iran are. That's what makes their response a bit more difficult to fit into a narrative centered on things like neo-liberal politics, etc. If Iran are responding similarly to other countries, is it because they independently think they have to, or is it because they're "playing ball". But in the case, why on this issue and not others? Of course it's possible to imagine a narrative Iran "playing ball" fits into, but in order to get Iran in there, you have to broaden the narrative more than for any standard NATO/UN nation.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 16, 2021, 08:49:54 PM
Sweden, Florida, Texas, Israel, Iceland, Seychelles, Gibraltar, etc., etc., are not political and economic outsiders. Iran are. That's what makes their response a bit more difficult to fit into a narrative centered on things like neo-liberal politics, etc. If Iran are responding similarly to other countries, is it because they independently think they have to, or is it because they're "playing ball". But in the case, why on this issue and not others? Of course it's possible to imagine a narrative Iran "playing ball" fits into, but in order to get Iran in there, you have to broaden the narrative more than for any standard NATO/UN nation.
:laugh: Good one!
I'll give it a go: The first three are not suffering any special meltdown due to covid but either came out of or didn't do the lockdowns like all of the tog-shitting countries who did. The narrative says they should be proper fucked but indeed they are not. So these places will need a different narrative spun for them on why their situation is so.
Israel, Seychelles, Gibraltar and Iceland were four of the most vaccinated countries on Earth and all experienced record case numbers after the rollout and in the case of Seychelles and Gibraltar, record deaths. Actually Ireland has recorded more deaths since the rollout began than before as well, so let's not forget Ireland while we are here. How do we spin the narrative for these countries?
How about Afghanistan so, as a comparison to Iran? Or here is a far better comparison: Israel vs Palestine. Check that one out because it fucks every aspect of the narrative. I'm pretty sure Palestine is a non-NATO country...
I'm not seeing your info about record deaths in the Seychelles or Gibraltar.
You say Palestine because they have low cases at the moment and low vaccination rate? That's not my point. That a region like that should exist is totally plausible. I'm talking about Iran because they are experiencing a surge. Palestine could experience a surge too, who knows when. It's 7 day average is currently three times higher than it was a month ago. What I meant was why would Iran play ball in terms of response unless it thought it needed to?
Iran will do whatever they want. Perhaps digital passports will be of use there too? Gibraltar didn't have a death until after the rollout.
Here's a report about Seychelles: https://www.newsafrica.net/world/seychelles-what-is-causing-the-post-vax-rise-in-cases I predict this situation to repeat in a lot more places. It's already happening in many.
Here is a well-referenced twitter thread that is also worth a read, around the same subject. Don't dismiss it out of hand, do give it a read, and all info is verifiable: https://twitter.com/holmenkollin/status/1415989536933490688
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.
Another bit of that madness that I mentioned was coming to Australia: Ignore the hashtags, watch the video:
https://twitter.com/erintheboss/status/1427224029409075202
Edit: Was actually the wrong tweet. It was meant to be the one about not taking your mask off while drinking. The one I linked is bad enough though so will still do. Looked into that story a bit more then because they were making it sound like small kids and https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/09/hsc-students-frustrated-with-last-minute-changes-to-mass-covid-19-vaccination-system read that and realised that with such an overall low number vaccinated why are Australia going with teenagers instead of working down through the ages, disregarding the No Parents bit in the video because that bit was shit but it still raises the question?
Gibraltar has had 95 deaths in total. All but one of them happened before the vaccine programme was finished. That's what I meant by not seeing your info.
The Seychelles had its peak in cases in May of this year, over two thirds of those cases were in unvaccinated people, but yes the rest were in vaccinated people. This info was shared up front. 80% of those hospitalized were unvaccinated. Overall deaths remain extremely low. Maybe there's something to draw from that, maybe not. I wouldn't use it to extrapolate to a global phenomenon, personally.
I'm afraid your newsafrica "report" there can't be said to be taking an honest approach. It's clearly trying to blame a rise in cases on vaccination programmes, but is also relying on people not looking into the info it gives. For example, it uses Namibia as an illustration of its point, stating that there was a surge in cases only after the vaccination programme began. Okay, that aspect is true, but they omit the slightly more important aspect that only 2.6% (no, that decimal point is not a typo) of the entire population of Namibia is fully vaccinated.
And I'm afraid the twitter thread isn't much better:
https://twitter.com/holmenkollin/status/1415995479754743809
"Seems like we have a pretty solid correlation here."
No, we absolutely don't have a pretty solid correlation there. If we did, then my own data I'm analyzing at the moment would be crazily correlated in mad ways, and I'd be on the brink of something huge! Unfortunately, that's not the case.
So, researcher cap on, because this is worth knowing: You have to provide an r or r² (r-squared) value to know whether or not two variables are correlated. The r² value tells you how much of the variance in the y-axis (vax rate in this graph) can be explained by variance in the x-axis (daily case rate in this graph), or vice versa, mathematically it's the same. If your r² value is, say, 0.25 then 25% of your y-axis variance is explained by your x-axis variance, and the rest - importantly - must be explained by other factors. If you have lots of variance in the y-axis, so vertical variance, as we clearly have here at the far left of the graph, where Hungary, Romania, and a huge cluster of unnamed countries are bunched together, so if you have that but with no or little corresponding x-axis variance, then you don't have a solid correlation at all, no matter how nice the geometric curve you draw onto the graph looks. Or another way to make this graph speak; right of Greece on the graph, there are only six data points, six countries. Left of Greece, there are 33 data points, mostly unnamed, but 33 countries presumably. So the lion's share of the data weight is crammed into the left hand side there. The y-axis variance for those 33 data points stretches over about 70% of the vertical height of the graph, their x-axis variance over only about 17% of the horizontal width. In short, the graph shows the opposite of what the guy thinks it does; variance in vaccination rate is not correlated with variance in daily case rate. Not on whatever day he snapped that data anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 17, 2021, 12:01:39 AM
Gibraltar has had 95 deaths in total. All but one of them happened before the vaccine programme was finished. That's what I meant by not seeing your info.
The Seychelles had its peak in cases in May of this year, over two thirds of those cases were in unvaccinated people, but yes the rest were in vaccinated people. This info was shared up front. 80% of those hospitalized were unvaccinated. Overall deaths remain extremely low. Maybe there's something to draw from that, maybe not. I wouldn't use it to extrapolate to a global phenomenon, personally.
- But you tried doing the same with Iran. And saying all but one in Gibraltar was before the end of the vaccinations? How many before the vaccinations started?
I'm afraid your newsafrica "report" there can't be said to be taking an honest approach. It's clearly trying to blame a rise in cases on vaccination programmes, but is also relying on people not looking into the info it gives. For example, it uses Namibia as an illustration of its point, stating that there was a surge in cases only after the vaccination programme began. Okay, that aspect is true, but they omit the slightly more important aspect that only 2.6% (no, that decimal point is not a typo) of the entire population of Namibia is fully vaccinated.
- You often quote the Guardian and NYT at me, so not taking the scolding over bias.
And I'm afraid the twitter thread isn't much better:
https://twitter.com/holmenkollin/status/1415995479754743809
"Seems like we have a pretty solid correlation here."
No, we absolutely don't have a pretty solid correlation there. If we did, then my own data I'm analyzing at the moment would be crazily correlated in mad ways, and I'd be on the brink of something huge! Unfortunately, that's not the case.
So, researcher cap on, because this is worth knowing: You have to provide an r or r² (r-squared) value to know whether or not two variables are correlated. The r² value tells you how much of the variance in the y-axis (vax rate in this graph) can be explained by variance in the x-axis (daily case rate in this graph), or vice versa, mathematically it's the same. If your r² value is, say, 0.25 then 25% of your y-axis variance is explained by your x-axis variance, and the rest - importantly - must be explained by other factors. If you have lots of variance in the y-axis, so vertical variance, as we clearly have here at the far left of the graph, where Hungary, Romania, and a huge cluster of unnamed countries are bunched together, so if you have that but with no or little corresponding x-axis variance, then you don't have a solid correlation at all, no matter how nice the geometric curve you draw onto the graph looks. Or another way to make this graph speak; right of Greece on the graph, there are only six data points, six countries. Left of Greece, there are 33 data points, mostly unnamed, but 33 countries presumably. So the lion's share of the data weight is crammed into the left hand side there. The y-axis variance for those 33 data points stretches over about 70% of the vertical height of the graph, their x-axis variance over only about 17% of the horizontal width. In short, the graph shows the opposite of what the guy thinks it does; variance in vaccination rate is not correlated with variance in daily case rate. Not on whatever day he snapped that data anyway.
- Had either too many or not enough cans on me to take into this last night. I'll come back to that graph and thread after work.
I'm not "scolding you over bias", but that's some pretty hardcore dishonesty there; "In Namibia, the vaccination programme is causing the surge in cases!" "But only two and a half percent are vaccinated." "Shhhhhh."
I've read the article again and it doesn't say that the vaccinations are causing the surge in cases. It does sort of imply it but says:
"A possible correlation could be made between the use of these Chinese made vaccines and the subsequent Covid-19 outbreaks we're seeing in Namibia, Zimbabwe, Gabon, Congo and parts of Latin America.
On March 19, 2021, the Namibian government began the roll out of its vaccination programme, thanks to the arrival of the Sinopharm vaccines donated by the Chinese government.
If you take a look at Namibia's new Covid cases, you see cases rose after the rollout, peaking at 3,268 infections on June 30, 2021, around five time its pre-rollout peak of 608 cases on December 31, 2020."
That information is correct as far as it can be checked on the likes of Our World in Data. Here are the relevant graphs from a google search (https://www.google.com/search?q=namibia+vaccinations+covid&oq=namibia+vaccinations&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l7.8764j0j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 and https://www.google.com/search?q=namibia+covid+cases&oq=namibia+covid+cases&aqs=chrome..69i57.5623j0j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8). What I see from that it is that it could be said that the high cases have coincided with the rollout but also with such a low number of the population getting it so far (3.2%) that it's clear that the epidemic there has peaked and fallen without the vaccinations and also without the apocalyptic predictions becoming a reality. They also say that a "possible correlation" could be made. We have been over it before that correlation does not equal causation, and although I would prefer an article to simply ask the question rather than imply anything, in its way it is no worse than every major media outlet in this part of the world going on the hysteria train since feb 2020 and all of the different things and people that have been blamed for the cases in this part of the world.
Out of curiosity, and in relation to the graph from the twitter thread which I'm not avoiding, I'm going to do a similar exercise for Ireland, UK, France, Germany and Denmark and Holland. We can then plot the graph and see where it takes us. I'm choosing those countries because they are roughly of a similar latitude, rather than randomly picking geographically disparate countries from the whole world. I'm picking just 5 because I have a few other things to do this evening (although admittedly I could give all day and night at this) and I'm on the promise of a game of chess.
I take your point about his graph and the 30-odd unnamed countries although I feel the info in the rest of the thread is sound and he maybe shouldn't have said there's a definite pattern. All we can do is have a look ourselves. My guess, and what I think we are going to see happening in more and more countries as vaccinations progress is that the vaccines are going to have little to no effect on anything and the epidemic curves will rise and fall independently. That doesn't however rule out the effect they might have on hospitalisations and deaths, so don't worry it will be a fair look at things. Be back with it in a bit. Feel free to suggest any other countries you like as well so you don't think I'm cherry picking. I also haven't looked at any of those other than Ireland so far.
Who knows what will happen in Namibia or Palestine or anywhere else over the coming days, weeks or months. I brought up Iran as an example, not because they were having a surge - this could happen anywhere at any time -, but because I found it interesting that this otherwise fiercely independent country should respond to this surge in the same way as most "western" nations have been. That they did, I was suggesting, surely couldn't be the result of following a WHO script, since they're famously not into following scripts of the west. Otherwise, as I've said before, pointing to what's happening here, or here, or there, or over there, at any given point in time and trying to use it to explain a global phenomenon is not the way to understand it all. It's always cherry-picking, when it's at the level of the tree that the pandemic is happening. You just end up chasing your own tail... find a country with low vaccination but also low cases... Palestine! Gotcha! But Palestine had 620 cases yesterday, bringing its 7-day average now up to four times what it was a month ago. Who knows where that might go! There's no point hanging a theory on what is happening in a handful of countries. You have to look at the overwhelming trends, and not forget that there are over 200 nation states involved in this, so even 33 is fuck all, let alone 6.
Don't want to look at it? Pandemic me hole the plan was to look at how vaccinations might be affecting case numbers and then to wildly speculate on the reasons behind it. Surely with a sample size of 200 countries we should be able to find some trends and discover things that made a difference and I think we will find that vaccinations won't be one of them. It's exactly how your detailed explanation of the correlation between the axes should work as you described it. Bet we won't find anything positive re anything making a difference; lockdowns, vaccines, you name it and we won't find any pattern by your standards because it's all wing and prayer stuff and the only variable that matters is ideology. And that's the one that's going to fuck us ten times harder than anything the shiting covid could ever do. What is the overwhelming trend you are on about? There isn't one other than a trend of insanely disproportionate responses.
Trends, like the one you seem to alternate between accepting and not factoring in at all; the massively reduced mortality and hospitalization rate in vaccinated breakthrough cases compared to unvaccinated infections.
Just saw this, haven't read it yet mind: IT readers requested to send in their reasons for not being vaccinated, then addressed by a vaccinologist and an infectious disease specialist:
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/why-we-re-not-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine-irish-times-readers-share-their-reasons-1.4650503
Edit: Having read just the first answer, hmm, although they surely know the science, they really don't know their target audience. I could feel each word being dismissed out of hand by those its message is intended for.
One of the responses from that article:
Quote"In the history of immunisation, there has never been issues of long-term side effects of any licensed vaccine that have been manufactured and used according to the required regulatory standards."
I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that those kids who developed narcolepsy as a direct result from the swine flu vaccine, still have narcolepsy?
Quote from: Giggles on August 19, 2021, 04:46:58 PM
One of the responses from that article: Quote"In the history of immunisation, there has never been issues of long-term side effects of any licensed vaccine that have been manufactured and used according to the required regulatory standards."
I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure that those kids who developed narcolepsy as a direct result from the swine flu vaccine, still have narcolepsy?
Yeah, it's that kind of strong blanket statement that's not going to do much good. When you get into the details of the studies around that swine flu vaccine, Pandemrix, what really comes through is how difficult it is to draw cause and effect results, especially when the thing being vaccinated against can cause increased risk of the same condition(s) the vaccine under investigation is suspected of causing, in this case H1N1 and narcolepsy. But yeah, it's that general way of answering questions that I was getting at/criticizing in my edit-reply to myself above.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 19, 2021, 09:57:42 AM
Trends, like the one you seem to alternate between accepting and not factoring in at all; the massively reduced mortality and hospitalization rate in vaccinated breakthrough cases compared to unvaccinated infections.
Just saw this, haven't read it yet mind: IT readers requested to send in their reasons for not being vaccinated, then addressed by a vaccinologist and an infectious disease specialist:
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/why-we-re-not-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine-irish-times-readers-share-their-reasons-1.4650503
I am indeed swinging between thinking that the vaccines are keeping people out of hospital and not working at all. This part though:
Quotethe massively reduced mortality and hospitalization rate in vaccinated breakthrough cases compared to unvaccinated infections.
That is simply not true and has not been proved in any fashion, but I sure would love to see where you are getting that notion from. I guess we would have to go through the winter and see. I like to keep both possibilities in my head so I don't get stuck in the rut of not being able to change my mind. The story might be that the Delta Deep Sleep variant doesn't hurt as much, or it might be that the vaccines killed the alpha variant and now all we are left with is the bould Delta. That doesn't hold up everywhere though and Sweden is still sticking out like a sore thumb with their no more than average rates of vaccination and fuck all deaths for a month (it is summer after all, and amazingly the same thing has happened here!). I thought that science was to be looked at with something approaching an open mind, although I admit to being guilty of the bias at times like everyone else.
And having read that IT article, I can admit that I see it as nothing other than pure propaganda of the worst kind and I you've anticipated that.
QuoteEdit: Having read just the first answer, hmm, although they surely know the science, they really don't know their target audience. I could feel each word being dismissed out of hand by those its message is intended for.
Well no surprise when the questions are addressed by a Vaccinologist and an Infectious Diseases Specialist (perhaps the latter of the two can tell me how covid is spread from person to person but I won't hold my breath)! The shoe salesman says I need better shoes and the Barber says I need a haircut and a shave!
Were all of this to be above board, we would have offered the vaccine to the well-defined vulnerable groups, let them make the choice to have it or not, and got on with our lives. The way these vaccines have been manufactured since before they were actually approved with no respect for their efficacy or safety even in the medium term says to me that the plan was always to give it to absolutely everybody regardless of personal inclination or risk profile. The likely reason to me is that governments were promised that this would be the way out as well as the populace, but that's speculation, much like the epidemiological modelling that got us all into this shit in the first place.
I don't think for a minute that the companies producing these products
want to harm anyone, but I know in my heart and soul that they couldn't give two shits if a few get fucked up along the way. This isn't about caring about people's health. That young lad in Waterford might attest to that, had he lived. I do appreciate that his story is not one I've personally encountered either though, which brings me to the next bit:
After a year and a half, we should all be able to use the evidence of our eyes and ears and separate that from the news reports of both good and bad and make an honest assessment of the situation. No talking heads, no pro this or anti that, no anything but what we actually see, and I'll tell you honestly I don't see any pandemic and I'd be amazed if anyone else here can honestly say they do. Leaving out the ICU stories and reports of deaths or lack of from around the world, or indeed the yellow signs on the walls and floors everywhere or the constant assault on the senses from governments and media, what do we see? That isn't just aimed at yourself either, that's for everyone to at least ask themselves even if they don't respond to the thread. No comparisons with anything else just the raw question,
what do you see?Everyone I know who tested positive was no worse than regular seasonal illness and if anyone does know any of the nursing home residents who died, I'd say that my own father and grandmother both died from unspecified viral infections in the end, although they had plenty of other serious things wrong with them and there was none of this bollix to go with it; track and trace, testing of close contacts etc. Imagine how it would have went with a similar regime on those occasions and families left out of hospitals/nursing homes, funerals of 10 with no handshakes and whatever else. It would have been ridiculous is what it would have been. It is ridiculous right now.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 19, 2021, 09:11:03 PM
This part though: Quotethe massively reduced mortality and hospitalization rate in vaccinated breakthrough cases compared to unvaccinated infections.
That is simply not true and has not been proved in any fashion, but I sure would love to see where you are getting that notion from.
I have seen lots of data going in that direction, and very little, albeit amplified to the high heaven, going in the other direction. NYT published data from 40 states on it the other day. You can take it or bin it, as you see fit:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/10/us/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccines.html
In France, there are ~9 times more ICU admissions in unvaccinated compared to vaccinated patients and around 5 times more deaths. I could multiply these examples...but who has the time!
I don't get why Sweden is sticking out like a sore thumb though...? Their vaccination rate is comparable to the rest of the EU, and again, who knows when things may change from one week to the next. Cases are on the rise there compared to a month ago, so if they have a large vulnerable unvaccinated population (I don't know if they do, no idea how large the vaccine resistant movement is there) then an increase in mortality may follow in a couple of weeks or so. They found a new delta strain there this week, now that you mention it!
I guess being in Ireland doesn't help your perspective, since the Irish response definitely seems to be overkill, given that vaccine resistance is pretty low there, compared to France anyway.
NYT? Seriously? I can't wait to do the due diligence on their source.....
QuoteWhile vaccines have done a remarkable job at protecting a vast majority of people from serious illness, the data in the Times analysis generally spanned the period from the start of the vaccination campaign until mid-June or July, before the Delta variant became predominant in the United States.
Read that again. And then again. I haven't even gotten to their source and there they are already telling you themselves that the source data is out of date! Fuckin NYT :laugh:
Vaccine resistance?!? Wow I cannot for the life of me think why anyone would want to resist them (source for the French data would be good if you have it as well). Are you seriously suggesting that the response should be tailored to the level of vaccine resistance? Like it's grand to drop the hammer on the French because they won't take their medicine? Fucking authoritarian bullshit is what that is.
Here's the best quote of all from that absolutely bullshit piece of what I wouldn't call journalism but would best describe as creative writing.. this one is fucking spectacular (wait for it):
QuoteData was not available for several states in which the virus has been surging, including Florida and Missouri.
:'( those poor people with their surging infections. An awful pity we have no data for what "surging" means. Ah Jaysus the NYT hass descended into farce it's pure shit and the worst thing is that I used to love it for its seemingly (surely only to me because I didn't know better) unbiased ( :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:) reporting. Even saying that feels like I feel like when I remember making a mixtape. It's awful.
Here's another beaut from the very next paragraph:
QuoteUntil recently, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that fully vaccinated people accounted for less than 3 percent of coronavirus hospitalizations nationwide and less than 1 percent of virus deaths. But last week, the agency noted that those figures did not reflect new data involving the Delta variant and said it was actively working to update them.
It goes on...
QuoteAlthough at least 80 percent of people 65 and older are vaccinated in the United States, surging cases could still present an elevated risk for them. It is possible, epidemiologists said, that seniors and people with compromised immune systems could be particularly vulnerable in a surge, even if they were fully vaccinated, because their bodies might not produce a strong immune response from the vaccine. The Food and Drug Administration is speeding efforts to authorize booster shots for people with weakened immune systems.
In Mississippi — where only about 35 percent of the population is fully vaccinated and where infections and hospitalizations have been surging — vaccinated older people and people with weaker immune systems have been overrepresented among those hospitalized and dying, according to the state health department.
"We're seeing a pretty dramatic spillover effect from the transmission in the community to our more vulnerable parts of our population," Thomas Dobbs, Mississippi's state health officer, said last week, though he emphasized that a higher proportion of breakthroughs did not mean the vaccine had become less effective.
Looks an awful lot to me that it does fuck all for the very cohort it is supposed to protect in Mississippi.
Next:
QuoteA need for better data
A lack of comprehensive data, paired with growing concern over the Delta variant, may be helping to drive fears about breakthrough infections.The C.D.C. does not provide data for breakthrough instances at the state or local level, nor does it provide the data over time
This source is beyond funny and are you actually seriously trying to show me something by using it? I'll be back to refute your argument with articles from the Daily Sport..
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/gallery/15-best-funniest-most-outrageous-22027193 (Sourced from the Daily Star for extra New York Times points)
You do know that the NYT don't generate the data themselves. So, when they say that they don't have data for Florida and Missouri, it may simply be because the quality of the data coming out of those two states can't be fit into the analyses they're doing. Texas, rather than Missouri, is actually the major state that is "twinned" in the media with Florida in terms of surging cases, and Texas is in there. So I think you're reading just a little bit too much into what their explainers mean. Which are explicit and stated right from the start, not in small print or footnoted.
And here again, you're reading waaay too far into something that I've said:
QuoteAre you seriously suggesting that the response should be tailored to the level of vaccine resistance? Like it's grand to drop the hammer on the French because they won't take their medicine? Fucking authoritarian bullshit is what that is.
No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that since in France we have hundreds and hundreds of thousands more unvaccinated people, including in vulnerable populations, who are refusing to get vaccinated, then the real world risks for people and for the health service are much more pronounced here than they presumably are in Ireland, where despite a few loud voices, vaccine rollout is going very smoothly (from what I hear anyway). And also, apart from the health pass being pretty much mandatory here, with it we have more activities open to us than ye seem to. Actual concerts, for example, like!
Here's a source for the French hospitalization and mortality vaccinated vs unvaccinated data:
https://www.ouest-france.fr/sante/vaccin/covid-19-le-point-en-chiffres-sur-la-proportion-des-patients-non-vaccines-a-l-hopital-31bcca20-fc47-11eb-b859-ec5d9416da74
It's in French, but the graphs pretty much speak for themselves. And the original source of that data is here: https://data.drees.solidarites-sante.gouv.fr/explore/dataset/covid-19-resultats-issus-des-appariements-entre-si-vic-si-dep-et-vac-si/table/?disjunctive.vac_statut&sort=date
But that's a little more difficult to navigate without le lingo.
You can't honestly be coming on defending the NYT. Biased as fuck and well you know it. We've been over this with them before about how they present the story vs the data they have. So of course I know the NYT don't generate the data, they just present it in the most biased way possible is all.
Cases are surging they say before going on to say they don't have the data. Seriously. If they don't have it they should fuck up about it. You already know this though even better than I do. The NYT just doesn't cut it anymore. It's even more biased than I am.
I like the look of that France data you sent there so I will fall down that rabbit hole tomorrow because I've only been at it 5 minutes and I have about 20 tabs open already so I can't do it now. On the face of it though it makes a good case that looks hard to refute.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/israel-to-roll-out-covid-19-booster-shots-to-entire-population-1.4651351
I must admit I was surprised to then read the above, given how well it's going in France. Surely the vaccines work the same in Israel as anywhere else?
Going to leave it for Tonight with Prof. Balloux, who seems pretty sane: https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1428466487803752452
Quote from: astfgyl on August 20, 2021, 12:46:48 AM
You can't honestly be coming on defending the NYT. Biased as fuck and well you know it. We've been over this with them before about how they present the story vs the data they have. So of course I know the NYT don't generate the data, they just present it in the most biased way possible is all.
Cases are surging they say before going on to say they don't have the data. Seriously. If they don't have it they should fuck up about it.
That would mean they don't have the data
for the analysis that they are doing which requires data from hospitals about vaccination rates, etc. The data that just says cases are surging in Florida and Missouri is easy to find. I'm not defending NYT, I'm defending context.
Quotehttps://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1428466487803752452
This I totally agree with. For the moment, so do the WHO though!
An Israeli lesson in stats:
https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated/
Simple. Let the vaccinated get their booster shots four times a year.
Gotta keep big pharma happy. After all, not all the common savages have taken up on their wonder syrup.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-approves-first-of-its-kind-antibody-treatment/
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 20, 2021, 11:01:23 AM
An Israeli lesson in stats:
https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated/
I've seen a good few of these type analyses over the last couple of months and have seen those figures worsen over time, so I will wait and see. We have already gone from the ~95% claimed efficacy of the trials to that detailed analysis of the Israeli hospital situation placing it at 60%. I think the French figures you posted yesterday look encouraging so far and will similarly try to keep an eye on those as we move through the winter. These analyses do however support my opinion that the whole thing is one massive trial with unknown results. A hypothesis yes, but no real results. It might still work, I'm not too much of an ostrich not to keep that in mind but so far we have seen a 1/3 drop from the claimed efficacy that the vaccines were authorised on. Maybe it will sit at the 66ish% and that wouldn't be a bad result I suppose.
It's no fucking Ronseal, that's for sure!
On a slightly different note, I was told by a pharmacist friend of mine this morning that the training they have received for administering the Pfizer shots (they actually said it applied to both mRNA vaccines, but so far will only be giving the Pfizer one) to the 12-15 year old group is that the risk of heart inflammation is 1 in 16,000 for boys and 1 in 50,000 for girls. They said they will be explaining this to each and every one of the parents and indeed the kids before giving it and also that they are not happy at all with those numbers. That is the second pharmacist that has told me of the 1 in 16,000 for the young lads but I only heard it in passing with the first one and didn't know where they had gotten the figures from, as I would never have considered it to be so high even with all of the sensational reports. This isn't the FB "friend of my third cousin's old schoolmate who was talking to a friend of someone who is friends with a guard somewhere" type of story either, this is the advice that is being given to the vaccinators here in Ireland. I will be curious to see how many of the parents/kids withdraw from the appointment on hearing the news, although I think with the social pressure involved it won't be many. A bad risk/reward ratio though from my perspective although I'm still a bit skeptical about the incidence being so high.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 20, 2021, 01:42:59 PM
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-approves-first-of-its-kind-antibody-treatment/
Hopefully that works. Hopefully it isn't ridiculously expensive into the bargain, but of course it will be.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on August 20, 2021, 12:33:37 PM
Simple. Let the vaccinated get their booster shots four times a year.
Gotta keep big pharma happy. After all, not all the common savages have taken up on their wonder syrup.
I think I'd be pretty pissed off, having rolled up my sleeves for the first two shots only to be told there is a third one in the pipeline already. I would also be pretty pissed off at the 3 shots good, 2 shots baaaad situation which is bound to come with it.
Last thing for today: There are about 100 countries who have not initiated a vaccination programme yet. Does anyone know what is happening in any of them?
Trump recommending to an Alabama crowd that they get vaccinated:
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1429255690682572805
Obviously not going to try to say anything about that, well, except that I guess he ain't supping from Alex Jones & Co.'s cup anymore.
Fuck Trump, he's a gimp. A shape-shifting piece of shit.
Have some Australia instead, it's far more fun https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/rescue-dogs-shot-dead-by-nsw-council-due-to-covid-19-restrictions-20210821-p58ksh.html
Who's looking forward to their boosters? 6 months! What an amazingly effective product. Talk about the emperor's new clothes..
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0825/1242697-coronavirus-vaccines/
QuoteReal world analysis would be expected to show less protection than clinical trials, and the vaccines were not trialled against the now dominant Delta variant of the virus.
QuoteVaccines still provide high levels of protection for the majority of the population, especially against the Delta variant
Edit: https://twitter.com/i/status/1430244231260643332
I actually know it's stupid but this lad makes me laugh every time
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/covd-qld-wellcamp-toowoomba-regional-quarantine-facility/100403692
They are wondering what would be the best way to transport users to the facility. Might I suggest trains?
This one is causing me some cognitive dissonance.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 26, 2021, 02:40:16 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-26/covd-qld-wellcamp-toowoomba-regional-quarantine-facility/100403692
They are wondering what would be the best way to transport users to the facility. Might I suggest trains?
This one is causing me some cognitive dissonance.
Don't (get
sucked into the vortex)
https://www.swallowedinblack.com/caverne-interview/
Caverne bloke talking about a few things including coronavirus.
In his general chat I find a lot of parallels with the way I think.
In terms of covid/vaccinations I still think you go with occams razor. They are designed to keep people out of hospital, a small proportional increase of which puts the entire health system under pressure. Which we do not want. Fin.
Just because they are designed to keep people out of hospital does not mean that they are actually doing it. This day last year there were 5 cases in ICU and 29 confirmed cases in hospital. Today there are 55 cases in ICU and 307 in hospital. There have been 6.68 million doses of vaccine administered in the meantime. Apply Occam's razor to that there.
These things should have been properly trialed. They weren't, presumably because by the time they were approved the pandemic would have ended by itself like all of the other ones in the last 100 years which were not ended by vaccinations. Health system is screaming every winter in case you hadn't noticed. Investing in it over the years might have helped calm that hysteria a bit. Also relying on real world events instead of epidemiological modelling done on a computer might have helped. There's a lot of ways to apply Occam's Razor.
Anybody like history?
https://youtu.be/g5jx243DHyg
My favourite part is at 6 minutes where they explain how almost everyone was injected with a different formulation than the one which was submitted for approval.
Then there was the 2009 Swine Flu debacle, involving the Pandemrix vaccine. Really worth looking into that one too.
Edit: But this time it's different!
Here's another good one. The UK Health Secretary Sajid Javid says that vaccinations have saved 105,900 lives in the UK.
Can anyone tell me how he arrived at that precise number?
If this is the sort of shit that people are having fed to them by public officials, it's little wonder that people would question the integrity of the situation as it is presented.
Is where Ireland is at now, if it continues opening up back to normal levels, not exactly where you were arguing it should be last year? Tolerating a certain level of hospitalizations as a "cost" of increased freedom for everyone else? The majority of people in ICU in Ireland are unvaccinated (62%), and of those that are vaccinated the majority have underlying conditions. The same kind of underlying conditions which last year were being used by certain parties as a reason for saying we didn't need to impose any measures to prevent spread of the virus among those without such underlying conditions, beyond telling people who did have them to lock themselves up, or whatever.
And, yeah, this time it is different. The 2009 swine flu killed somewhere between 100,000 and 500,000 people globally. That's a far cry from the 4,500,000 estimated deaths so far from COVID. More detail? Okay, in the US an estimated 60 million people caught swine flu, but as it turned out it wasn't as serious as had been predicted, so in the space of 12 months from April 2009 to April 2010, out of those 60 million cases, only 275,000 ended up in hospital. Over a 12 month period. COVID? Well, there are 90,000 in hospital in the US with it right now, around 900,000 in total so far. Swine flu resulted in about 12,500 deaths in the US (I've said it before, but you gotta wonder why didn't they just "add on" more to that tally, if it was all just a scam to push vaccines), but COVID so far is at 650,000 deaths. So yeah, it is different this time. Pretty fucking different.
Just reflecting on that figure I relayed there now. In a country (Ireland) where 85% of the adult population are fully vaccinated, 62% of those who are in ICU are unvaccinated. Do the statistical implications of that resonate with you?? Let's go with toy figures to make it easy to mentally manipulate: take a population of a million. 850,000 are fully vaccinated, and out of that 850,000, 48 individuals are in ICU. That's 0.006%. The other 150,000 are not vaccinated, and out of them 62 individuals are in ICU, or 0.04%. Compare those percentages and what you get is that you're 15 times more likely to end up in ICU if you're not vaccinated than if you are.
Watched a video last week of a nurse from a Derry hospital in distress. She said that the hospital was full of VACCINATED people and quite a lot were in a bad way. She was begging people not to get vaccinated and especially the youth and children.
Where are you getting this 62% unvaccinated figure from la?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on August 27, 2021, 10:56:38 AM
Watched a video last week of a nurse from a Derry hospital in distress. She said that the hospital was full of VACCINATED people and quite a lot were in a bad way. She was begging people not to get vaccinated and especially the youth and children.
Was she the one who got suspended?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on August 27, 2021, 10:56:38 AM
Where are you getting this 62% unvaccinated figure from la?
From the HSE. It's in here:
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/health-news/covid-19-ireland-how-many-24802687
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on August 27, 2021, 10:56:38 AM
Watched a video last week of a nurse from a Derry hospital in distress. She said that the hospital was full of VACCINATED people and quite a lot were in a bad way. She was begging people not to get vaccinated and especially the youth and children.
You capitalized the word "vaccinated" to emphasize what about this? Do you think this is persuasive? Do you want me to find you videos of nurses in distress begging people TO GET VACCINATED??
Yes.... and lots.....
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
Just reflecting on that figure I relayed there now. In a country (Ireland) where 85% of the adult population are fully vaccinated, 62% of those who are in ICU are unvaccinated. Do the statistical implications of that resonate with you?? Let's go with toy figures to make it easy to mentally manipulate: take a population of a million. 850,000 are fully vaccinated, and out of that 850,000, 48 individuals are in ICU. That's 0.006%. The other 150,000 are not vaccinated, and out of them 62 individuals are in ICU, or 0.04%. Compare those percentages and what you get is that you're 15 times more likely to end up in ICU if you're not vaccinated than if you are.
Those "unvaccinated" figures include people who have only their first dose taken and also those who are less than 2 weeks out from their second dose.
Are you looking forward to your booster?
It's a risk/benefit thing as I see it. I wonder what the risk/benefit ratio was for Roy Butler? Should have been offered to the vulnerable and been done with it, but that's greed for you. Which also brings it back to the "it's different this time". It isn't.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on August 27, 2021, 10:56:38 AM
Watched a video last week of a nurse from a Derry hospital in distress. She said that the hospital was full of VACCINATED people and quite a lot were in a bad way. She was begging people not to get vaccinated and especially the youth and children.
Where are you getting this 62% unvaccinated figure from la?
You're taking the piss man!
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 11:34:36 AM
Those "unvaccinated" figures include people who have only their first dose taken and also those who are less than 2 weeks out from their second dose.
No, they're completely unvaccinated. One-dose vaccinated make up another 15%, and the remaining 20% or so (again, fully communicated by the HSE) are indeed "double-jabbed." I lumped the one-dose vaccinated and fully vaccinated together in my toy example, even though technically it weakens my side of the argument.
From the article linked above, quoting the HSE executive:
""The vaccination status in ICU, 62% of ICU cases currently in hospital aren't vaccinated at all.
"They haven't had any vaccination, which is very high proportion of the population who have not been vaccinated.
"15% are partially vaccinated, the remaining 20 to 23% are fully vaccinated.""
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 11:34:36 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
Just reflecting on that figure I relayed there now. In a country (Ireland) where 85% of the adult population are fully vaccinated, 62% of those who are in ICU are unvaccinated. Do the statistical implications of that resonate with you?? Let's go with toy figures to make it easy to mentally manipulate: take a population of a million. 850,000 are fully vaccinated, and out of that 850,000, 48 individuals are in ICU. That's 0.006%. The other 150,000 are not vaccinated, and out of them 62 individuals are in ICU, or 0.04%. Compare those percentages and what you get is that you're 15 times more likely to end up in ICU if you're not vaccinated than if you are.
Those "unvaccinated" figures include people who have only their first dose taken and also those who are less than 2 weeks out from their second dose.
Are you looking forward to your booster?
It's a risk/benefit thing as I see it. I wonder what the risk/benefit ratio was for Roy Butler? Should have been offered to the vulnerable and been done with it, but that's greed for you. Which also brings it back to the "it's different this time". It isn't.
I like a lot of what you say and how you think but you show yourself up on this thread quite regularly. The conspiracy nut style does you no favours.
I've said it before, but of course big business and those in positions of power are manipulating the situation for their own gain. We, the proles, the serfs are being pushed around and controlled and fed shit. That's always been the case. You act like it's something new.
Of course there will be boosters. It doesn't take much knowledge of virology to call that one from the very earliest days of covid.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2021, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 11:34:36 AM
Those "unvaccinated" figures include people who have only their first dose taken and also those who are less than 2 weeks out from their second dose.
No, they're completely unvaccinated. One-dose vaccinated make up another 15%, and the remaining 20% or so (again, fully communicated by the HSE) are indeed "double-jabbed." I lumped the one-dose vaccinated and fully vaccinated together in my toy example, even though technically it weakens my side of the argument.
From the article linked above, quoting the HSE executive:
""The vaccination status in ICU, 62% of ICU cases currently in hospital aren't vaccinated at all.
"They haven't had any vaccination, which is very high proportion of the population who have not been vaccinated.
"15% are partially vaccinated, the remaining 20 to 23% are fully vaccinated.""
Fair enough. I had read different but if that is the case, that is the case. If we get through the winter with a similar ratio, I will consider the vaccination programme a success. Be back next March with the answer unless it changes in the meantime.
Quote from: Grim Reality on August 27, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
I've said it before, but of course big business and those in positions of power are manipulating the situation for their own gain. We, the proles, the serfs are being pushed around and controlled and fed shit. That's always been the case. You act like it's something new.
You've said this to me before here, and I fully expect most on here to disagree with me on this, as evidenced to me by the everyday reality I live in. It's grim! Just because it's nothing new doesn't mean we can't do anything about it, and one doesn't need conspiracy theories when it is all being played out in reality right in front of us in a non-theoretical fashion. Problem reaction solution, over and over. Keep the masses terrified and they will buy whatever is being sold. Not confined to health either. It's everywhere.
QuoteOf course there will be boosters. It doesn't take much knowledge of virology the pharmaceutical industry to call that one from the very earliest days of covid.
It's back to the risk/benefit for me anyway. There is fuck all in it for me in taking the vaccine as of this minute. Others might feel different and that's up to them. I have yet to advise anybody not to do it. I will however take pot shots at the propaganda where I see it.
I have also watched the video from the Derry doctor (was familiar with her from The Irish Inquiry videos on youtube), and have no reason to believe she is lying and putting her career and reputation on the line like that for nothing. I'm going to remain in the control group for the time being but to be fair that is nothing to do with her video which is only out a few days.
The last two times a pandemic-busting vaccine was rolled out in a hurry, it ended badly. No rush into this one without proper results to go on, which we don't have.
I'll edit here rather than go again, but further to the point of the unvaccinated being more likely to end up in ICU than the vaccinated, there is work being done which indicates far more durable immunity from natural infection. 13 times better, this study suggests https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/natural-immunity-is-stronger-than-vaccination-study-suggests
Still advocating for the Great Barrington Declaration over here!
Ah, so it was a GP, not a nurse. No wonder I couldn't find it. Let's have a look so...
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/dr-anne-mccloskey-vents-her-frustrations-regarding-the-injection-amp-what-she-is-witnessing-now_xfK7xiieKPje2xC.html
Ah, and she's not talking about a hospital, but an out-of-hours GP clinic (christ almighty KC, you really just absolutely don't give a fuck what kind of nonsense you transform stuff into...)
If you want to know, honestly, what my conclusion after watching that video is, then it's much the same as my conclusion is after watching a Gemma O'Doherty video: this Anne McCloskey has, since when I don't know, become a paranoid delusional and is projecting her paranoid delusions onto everything she does in life, including meeting and talking with patients at an out-of-hours GP clinic, the vast majority of whom are vaccinated, in the same way that the vast majority of them had tea for breakfast. She claims that she will only rely on "real world" data, which she then makes clear means only what she has seen with her own eyes, and not any of the official figures. Except that, her own eyes are clearly not seeing things right. She's telling us that she's keeping herself awake at night worrying about the consequences the "experimental gene therapy" is going to have on humanity, and if she's telling the truth at least about not getting enough sleep and about over-working herself, then she's not helping matters.
Absolutely right that she be suspended; god only knows what kind of things she's been saying to patients at the GP clinic, many of whom, vaccinated, sure, but may be there due to causes that have absolutely nothing to do with the vaccination.
Also, she doesn't have a career to put on the line; she retired two years ago, she says, and only came back to work last April. She says this just before saying that "this time last year there was nothing." I guess that's her relying only on "real world" data again, because Northern Ireland had a surge in cases this time last year. Anyway, I wouldn't say I think she's lying either. I think she no longer perceives the world the way it is.
This thread needs a laugh. Would an ivermectin self-medicating woman shitting herself at the supermarket do the trick??
https://twitter.com/RyanEGraney/status/1430856835997868032
I would say that's fair enough about the Derry Doctor, but then I would say the same should have been applied to the covid scaremongering doctors in 2020, telling people who were there for things unrelated to covid that they are now covid patients. Do you think she is lying? She has a lot to lose...
Anyway I've already said her testimony had no bearing whatsoever on my position, although the Roy Butler story made me take notice a bit, more because of the media coverage than the fact he died, because let's face it, a single death from a vaccine is not unheard of in any given year and is usually simply thought of as unlucky.
I apply a certain risk/benefit analysis to taking yokes as well and am happy with the extremely low level of deaths involved. Look at the papers when a few people died off the yokes that we were told not to take though compared to the papers when someone dies from the vaccine that the government are telling us to have. A few deaths is used to frighten us out of the bangers but written off as extremely low risk when it's a vaccine. And there is a buzz off the yokes as well which is very nice. I have also said here that my own reason for not taking it is not to do with safety issues and more of an exercise in how long I can continue to say no and still participate in society. So far I've been to the inside of the pub, the cinema, laser tag and bowling since the passports were introduced, so it's going ok so far.
Anyway, lightening things up a bit...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9ys7jWXsAQKOFS?format=jpg&name=small)
I had that written before your attempt to lighten things up. It must be a Friday thing!
And yes, an IVM user shitting themselves is always welcome, as are people eating the horse paste. I wonder do many of the Africans taking it for river blindness shit themselves as well when they take the human dose? It reminds me of the couple who drank the fish tank cleaner after Trump praised the HCQ. I should get on the Telegram vaccine injuries as well. Some of those are even funnier. I dunno if it's the Bell's Palsy or the all over body shaking that does it for me best. Here's one with a quite ironic name https://twitter.com/Angelasfreenews/status/1420437383007322112 I see a lad saying Niacin is the cure as well, so there should be some funny outcomes there soon too.
Miracle cures!
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 02:29:08 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2021, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 11:34:36 AM
Those "unvaccinated" figures include people who have only their first dose taken and also those who are less than 2 weeks out from their second dose.
No, they're completely unvaccinated. One-dose vaccinated make up another 15%, and the remaining 20% or so (again, fully communicated by the HSE) are indeed "double-jabbed." I lumped the one-dose vaccinated and fully vaccinated together in my toy example, even though technically it weakens my side of the argument.
From the article linked above, quoting the HSE executive:
""The vaccination status in ICU, 62% of ICU cases currently in hospital aren't vaccinated at all.
"They haven't had any vaccination, which is very high proportion of the population who have not been vaccinated.
"15% are partially vaccinated, the remaining 20 to 23% are fully vaccinated.""
Fair enough. I had read different but if that is the case, that is the case. If we get through the winter with a similar ratio, I will consider the vaccination programme a success. Be back next March with the answer unless it changes in the meantime.
Quote from: Grim Reality on August 27, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
I've said it before, but of course big business and those in positions of power are manipulating the situation for their own gain. We, the proles, the serfs are being pushed around and controlled and fed shit. That's always been the case. You act like it's something new.
You've said this to me before here, and I fully expect most on here to disagree with me on this, as evidenced to me by the everyday reality I live in. It's grim! Just because it's nothing new doesn't mean we can't do anything about it, and one doesn't need conspiracy theories when it is all being played out in reality right in front of us in a non-theoretical fashion. Problem reaction solution, over and over. Keep the masses terrified and they will buy whatever is being sold. Not confined to health either. It's everywhere.
QuoteOf course there will be boosters. It doesn't take much knowledge of virology the pharmaceutical industry to call that one from the very earliest days of covid.
It's back to the risk/benefit for me anyway. There is fuck all in it for me in taking the vaccine as of this minute. Others might feel different and that's up to them. I have yet to advise anybody not to do it. I will however take pot shots at the propaganda where I see it.
I have also watched the video from the Derry doctor (was familiar with her from The Irish Inquiry videos on youtube), and have no reason to believe she is lying and putting her career and reputation on the line like that for nothing. I'm going to remain in the control group for the time being but to be fair that is nothing to do with her video which is only out a few days.
The last two times a pandemic-busting vaccine was rolled out in a hurry, it ended badly. No rush into this one without proper results to go on, which we don't have.
I'll edit here rather than go again, but further to the point of the unvaccinated being more likely to end up in ICU than the vaccinated, there is work being done which indicates far more durable immunity from natural infection. 13 times better, this study suggests https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/natural-immunity-is-stronger-than-vaccination-study-suggests
Still advocating for the Great Barrington Declaration over here!
Just responding to the risk/benefit bit as the reason not to take the vaccine.
Would you not consider the chain of infection angle?
Like the main reason for young and healthy to get vaccinated is not to protect themselves. It's to attempt to stop being a link in the viral spread which may infect and kill a vulnerable person (parent, relative, friend...) but leave you with just the impression of a mild cold.
It's only the vulnerable who need the vaccine primarily to protect themselves. The rest of us do it for the benefit of wider society.
Says a black metal misanthropist!!!!
Jaysus don't be encouraging him!
Quote from: Grim Reality on August 27, 2021, 08:28:46 PM
Like the main reason for young and healthy to get vaccinated is not to protect themselves. It's to attempt to stop being a link in the viral spread which may infect and kill a vulnerable person (parent, relative, friend...) but leave you with just the impression of a mild cold.
It's only the vulnerable who need the vaccine primarily to protect themselves. The rest of us do it for the benefit of wider society.
Do you catch a cold/flu every year and if so, have you ever thought about how many vulnerable people you could potentially kill by passing it on, prior to Coronavirus?
Flu is a killer no doubt about it, and a lot of people catch it every year. So why don't the government pay for our flu jabs.... to save lives and for the benefit of wider society right?
No sarcasm intended here by the way, genuine question.
70% of calls to Mississippi state poison control centre regarding ingestion of veterinary ivermectin:
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/23/1030208101/mississippi-livestock-drug-ivermectin-covid-misinformation
Being a red state, I guess the influence of Fox 'talk to your expensive doctor about taking the vaccine, but ivermectin, go for it!' News is pretty strong there.
Quote from: Giggles on August 27, 2021, 08:48:26 PM
Flu is a killer no doubt about it, and a lot of people catch it every year. So why don't the government pay for our flu jabs.... to save lives and for the benefit of wider society right?
Worst flu year in the last 10 years in the US, 2017-2018 season, 61,000 estimated deaths. COVID, 650,000 estimated deaths. COVID is not the flu. COVID is not H1N1. This time it
is different.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Why do you have to ruin a perfectly legitimate, informed and smart post with a completely dumb remark about red states and Fox News? Maybe you were trying for a laugh, but it's not your strong suit!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 27, 2021, 09:31:33 PM
Why do you have to ruin a perfectly legitimate, informed and smart post with a completely dumb remark about red states and Fox News? Maybe you were trying for a laugh, but it's not your strong suit!
Fox News are undoubtedly responsible for a significant portion of vaccine resistance in the US, and they're simultaneously pushing ivermectin. I wasn't trying for a laugh; it's a tragic fact. Yet another one from dumb remark grand central; Fox News.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2021, 09:21:04 PM
Worst flu year in the last 10 years in the US, 2017-2018 season, 61,000 estimated deaths. COVID, 650,000 estimated deaths. COVID is not the flu. COVID is not H1N1. This time it is different.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Right... but I'm not talking about comparing stats, I'm talking about the mindset.
Have any of ye ever genuinely given a fuck about passing on the flu and killing a vulnerable person prior to covid?
I'm sure some of ye may have put off visiting yer granny if you were proper dosed up.
But have any of ye, having already known that flu kills x amount of people per year, ever made a conscious decision not to go to the shops, or go to work while you were sick, for fear of passing the flu onto somebody in an attempt to stop being "a link in the viral spread"?
They aren't pushing it as hard as Trevor Noah and pals say they are I guess.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/fda-warns-against-ivermectin-covid-treatment.amp
Quote from: Giggles on August 27, 2021, 09:37:51 PM
Right... but I'm not talking about comparing stats, I'm talking about the mindset.
The mindset is based on the reality, they're inseparable. Closer to home then if you want people to think about their grannies; between 200 - 500 deaths in Ireland from flu each year. 5000 so far from COVID.
https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/pubinfo/adult/fluva/
There's your difference in mindset.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 27, 2021, 09:42:04 PM
They aren't pushing it as hard as Trevor Noah and pals say they are I guess.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/health/fda-warns-against-ivermectin-covid-treatment.amp
Hopefully you're not going to try to deny the anti-vaccine rhetoric of many of their top hosts. That's the greater sin, no doubt. It just so happens that they also spoke favorably of ivermectin:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/23/media/right-wing-media-ivermectin/index.html
Yes, that is CNN; if you're defending Fox, you don't deserve my time finding a more neutral source.
Edit: Ha! Just looked up to see if the % of vaccinated population for Mississippi used in that article was correct at 37%. It is correct, and also it places Mississippi second from bottom in terms of vaccine roll-out. What a fucking coincidence, huh???
If the testing for flu was done the same as testing for covid we would be up to the same amount of deaths from that too. It is amazing how the 650,000 extra deaths from covid were offset so well by the negative amount of deaths from other causes that there was no overall excess for 2020. 2021 hasn't finished yet so will have to leave that for now. It is also extremely lucky that the flu virtually disappeared the same year covid turned up or we'd have had to deal with both, and wouldn't the health services have been proper fucked then? That's almost as lucky as the vaccines preventing anyone dying in the summer when we are normally out of our minds with respiratory infections and deaths. And how lucky we are to have the boosters ready to go for the winter when the immaculate protection from the vaccine starts to wane and the people who took it go and die like they would have every winter anyway. And when the flu come back, the flu shot is just as effective. Not that we actually have a way to measure that or anything.
Can anyone tell me how we measure the effectiveness of the flu shot while we are here?
Taking the vaccine to break the chain of infection is also absolute bullshit because the vaccinated can still catch it and still spread it. They don't spread a milder version and even if the vaccines do exactly as advertised, it is the end user who will feel the benefit with "leaky" ones such as this. So the idea of vaccination to break the chain does not apply here. It would have if the vaccine prevented catching or spreading covid but that is clearly not the case at all. If anyone doesn't believe me go look it up.
And what Giggles said applies to the moral dilemma inherent in the situation.
This time it is different. It sure is.
NPR? Being a lefty outlet it is no wonder they would be doing all they can to promote the political compliance vaccine.
The folks taking the ivermectin and poisoning themselves are no worse off than the people who took the vaccines in terms of blind faith and willing participation. Letting your political leanings get in the way a bit there. You want IVM to fail because you've thrown in your lot with the vaccine and will do all you can to rubbish the alternatives such as HCQ and IVM to validate your decision to take the vaccine and fit into the social ideology that you aspire to. I hope it works but there's actually fuck all to prove it as of yet.
I wouldn't take the IVM, the vaccines or the Niacin or the HCQ as it stands because none of them have been proved to work. None of them beyond shit trials that tell us fuck all.
Here's what I've been trying: Nothing. Going on as normal and so far 100% efficacy vs covid over a longer length of time than since the first trial of the vaccines began.
Vaccine hesitant????? That is like saying a woman is dick hesitant because she doesn't want you to stick yours in her.
CNN? FOX? Is that the argument? Ye must be joking. The world is a joke now the way it's gone.
There is so much made-up stuff in there. But take the most egregious claim: excess deaths in the US for 2020 hit a peak in April at 42%, then floated between 15 and 30% before hitting another peak at 52% in January:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores?country=~USA
And back to the thing about COVID tests explaining it all? In previous years, most seasonal excess deaths were attributed to flu... and it still never came close!
I'm not so much defending Fox as pointing out that they have published the FDA's opinion on the matter.
I just love Tucker Carlsen, I have no interest in anything else they, CNN or whomever say, I'm an Irish Examiner man me self :)
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 09:50:12 PM
It is also extremely lucky that the flu virtually disappeared the same year covid turned up or we'd have had to deal with both, and wouldn't the health services have been proper fucked then?
Not really lucky, the whole place was in lockdown so there wouldn't have been as much of a spread, coupled with their being a much higher take up of the flu shot last year
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/29/texas-man-who-worked-against-covid-measures-dies-from-virus/
QuoteA man who led efforts in his Central Texas community against mask-wearing and other preventative measures during the coronavirus pandemic has died from COVID-19, one month after being admitted to the emergency room.
Caleb Wallace died on Saturday, his wife Jessica Wallace said on a GoFundMe page where she had been posting updates on his condition, the San Angelo Standard-Times reported Saturday. He was 30 years old and a father of three children. His wife is pregnant with their fourth child.
...
Jessica Wallace told the newspaper her husband began experiencing COVID-19 symptoms on July 26 but refused to get tested or go to the hospital. He instead took high doses of Vitamin C, zinc, aspirin and ivermectin, an anti-parasitic medicine that officials have urged people not to take for COVID-19.
Caleb Wallace was taken to an emergency room on July 30 and since Aug. 8, he had been unconscious and on a ventilator.
Texas is up to a rolling 7-day average of 200+ deaths per day, most likely still set to increase given the magnitude in the surge of cases that's trailing behind (notice the very typical time-delay in Caleb Wallace's case between hospital admission and death - one month):
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 09:50:12 PM
If the testing for flu was done the same as testing for covid we would be up to the same amount of deaths from that too. It is amazing how the 650,000 extra deaths from covid were offset so well by the negative amount of deaths from other causes that there was no overall excess for 2020. 2021 hasn't finished yet so will have to leave that for now. It is also extremely lucky that the flu virtually disappeared the same year covid turned up or we'd have had to deal with both, and wouldn't the health services have been proper fucked then? That's almost as lucky as the vaccines preventing anyone dying in the summer when we are normally out of our minds with respiratory infections and deaths. And how lucky we are to have the boosters ready to go for the winter when the immaculate protection from the vaccine starts to wane and the people who took it go and die like they would have every winter anyway. And when the flu come back, the flu shot is just as effective. Not that we actually have a way to measure that or anything.
Can anyone tell me how we measure the effectiveness of the flu shot while we are here?
Taking the vaccine to break the chain of infection is also absolute bullshit because the vaccinated can still catch it and still spread it. They don't spread a milder version and even if the vaccines do exactly as advertised, it is the end user who will feel the benefit with "leaky" ones such as this. So the idea of vaccination to break the chain does not apply here. It would have if the vaccine prevented catching or spreading covid but that is clearly not the case at all. If anyone doesn't believe me go look it up.
And what Giggles said applies to the moral dilemma inherent in the situation.
This time it is different. It sure is.
NPR? Being a lefty outlet it is no wonder they would be doing all they can to promote the political compliance vaccine.
The folks taking the ivermectin and poisoning themselves are no worse off than the people who took the vaccines in terms of blind faith and willing participation. Letting your political leanings get in the way a bit there. You want IVM to fail because you've thrown in your lot with the vaccine and will do all you can to rubbish the alternatives such as HCQ and IVM to validate your decision to take the vaccine and fit into the social ideology that you aspire to. I hope it works but there's actually fuck all to prove it as of yet.
I wouldn't take the IVM, the vaccines or the Niacin or the HCQ as it stands because none of them have been proved to work. None of them beyond shit trials that tell us fuck all.
Here's what I've been trying: Nothing. Going on as normal and so far 100% efficacy vs covid over a longer length of time than since the first trial of the vaccines began.
Vaccine hesitant????? That is like saying a woman is dick hesitant because she doesn't want you to stick yours in her.
CNN? FOX? Is that the argument? Ye must be joking. The world is a joke now the way it's gone.
Wow, an absolute shitshow of a post. You've lost the plot man.
You're flailing around here swiping at various disparate bits and bobs to try and........... what I don't know.........uncover some plot?
There's three elements here you seem to be asserting.
1. Covid is a hoax and not responsible or capable of being responsible for excess deaths.
2. The vaccines are experimental and possibly have some nefarious element to them. Also vaccines don't work anyway as the idea they break the chain of infection is " absolute bullshit."
3. Big Pharma/WEF is orchestrating it all, NWO, evil scientist, Bond villain style.
The amount of stuff you post on here, links and youtube videos etc that you've 'researched' , (I don't read/watch any of them as I've a family and a job-i think you do too-where do you get the time?) suggests to me that you've tied yourself up in knots over the last 18 months of this thing and ended up with that 1,2,3 of 21st century delusional fantasy. When the reality is actually staring you in the face and not near as exciting as you imagine it to be.
Quote from: Grim Reality on August 29, 2021, 10:12:18 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 09:50:12 PM
If the testing for flu was done the same as testing for covid we would be up to the same amount of deaths from that too. It is amazing how the 650,000 extra deaths from covid were offset so well by the negative amount of deaths from other causes that there was no overall excess for 2020. 2021 hasn't finished yet so will have to leave that for now. It is also extremely lucky that the flu virtually disappeared the same year covid turned up or we'd have had to deal with both, and wouldn't the health services have been proper fucked then? That's almost as lucky as the vaccines preventing anyone dying in the summer when we are normally out of our minds with respiratory infections and deaths. And how lucky we are to have the boosters ready to go for the winter when the immaculate protection from the vaccine starts to wane and the people who took it go and die like they would have every winter anyway. And when the flu come back, the flu shot is just as effective. Not that we actually have a way to measure that or anything.
Can anyone tell me how we measure the effectiveness of the flu shot while we are here?
Taking the vaccine to break the chain of infection is also absolute bullshit because the vaccinated can still catch it and still spread it. They don't spread a milder version and even if the vaccines do exactly as advertised, it is the end user who will feel the benefit with "leaky" ones such as this. So the idea of vaccination to break the chain does not apply here. It would have if the vaccine prevented catching or spreading covid but that is clearly not the case at all. If anyone doesn't believe me go look it up.
And what Giggles said applies to the moral dilemma inherent in the situation.
This time it is different. It sure is.
NPR? Being a lefty outlet it is no wonder they would be doing all they can to promote the political compliance vaccine.
The folks taking the ivermectin and poisoning themselves are no worse off than the people who took the vaccines in terms of blind faith and willing participation. Letting your political leanings get in the way a bit there. You want IVM to fail because you've thrown in your lot with the vaccine and will do all you can to rubbish the alternatives such as HCQ and IVM to validate your decision to take the vaccine and fit into the social ideology that you aspire to. I hope it works but there's actually fuck all to prove it as of yet.
I wouldn't take the IVM, the vaccines or the Niacin or the HCQ as it stands because none of them have been proved to work. None of them beyond shit trials that tell us fuck all.
Here's what I've been trying: Nothing. Going on as normal and so far 100% efficacy vs covid over a longer length of time than since the first trial of the vaccines began.
Vaccine hesitant????? That is like saying a woman is dick hesitant because she doesn't want you to stick yours in her.
CNN? FOX? Is that the argument? Ye must be joking. The world is a joke now the way it's gone.
Wow, an absolute shitshow of a post. You've lost the plot man.
You're flailing around here swiping at various disparate bits and bobs to try and........... what I don't know.........uncover some plot?
There's three elements here you seem to be asserting.
1. Covid is a hoax and not responsible or capable of being responsible for excess deaths.
2. The vaccines are experimental and possibly have some nefarious element to them. Also vaccines don't work anyway as the idea they break the chain of infection is " absolute bullshit."
3. Big Pharma/WEF is orchestrating it all, NWO, evil scientist, Bond villain style.
The amount of stuff you post on here, links and youtube videos etc that you've 'researched' , (I don't read/watch any of them as I've a family and a job-i think you do too-where do you get the time?) suggests to me that you've tied yourself up in knots over the last 18 months of this thing and ended up with that 1,2,3 of 21st century delusional fantasy. When the reality is actually staring you in the face and not near as exciting as you imagine it to be.
1. Didn't say covid was a hoax. Am saying it is overblown beyond anything imaginable and done on a worldwide scale. That isn't exciting, it's a bad outcome.
2. These vaccines are experimental. I have said many times that they are not designed to do anything bad to anyone. Find the time where I didn't say that. What I am saying is that the people taking them aren't as much smarter than the people eating the fish tank cleaner as they think they are. Same for IVM same for HCQ same for whatever else. Refute the claim. The vaccines are not designed to prevent transmission and only mitigate severe disease. If you think any different you are misinformed.
3. Have also said many times that it is a pandemic of opportunism. There are so many ways that this is going to make massive profits for few and massive losses for many that it will be making everyone's head spin for years to come. Call me out on that when it doesn't happen. Pharmaceutical companies care about you the same way I care about the feelings of the air I'm consuming. Maybe less.
The youtube video I posted regarding the 70's swine flu thing. How are things different now? Same oul bollix over and over. Profit and loss, problem reaction solution. You can see it as well as I can.
Quote(I don't read/watch any of them as I've a family and a job-i think you do too-where do you get the time?)
So you don't read or watch any of them but somehow feel in a position to comment on them. Right so. You're living as much of a delusional fantasy as anything you might think I am so by that logic. You are living the reality you choose to live just like everybody else.
So thanks for the review of my post. I thought your reply was going ok until the "absolute shitshow" of a twist at the end where you took on all the things I've said without looking at them.
The whole thing is an ideology. I'm done with it and whoever likes can drink whatever fish tank cleaner or eat whatever horse paste they want or take the scheduled 15 injections they want and whoever wants can run up and down the streets roaring about freedom against them. I don't give a fuck. It's a load of shite from all angles and I am going to leave it at that. Some of you will eventually see it and more of you won't and it will be easier next time.
ISIS-K - The New Variant of Terror!! My bollix every single time.
Holy jaysus :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on August 30, 2021, 11:52:18 PM
ISIS-K - The New Variant of Terror!! My bollix every single time.
So Egypt's been dealing with the Nile Delta variant?
It's over now anyway, restrictions going in the next month and a half, mostly, the remainder won't see spring next year.
Importantly, and forum related: GIGS GIGS GIGS GIGS GIGS
I'm not so sure about that. Surely there's going to be a big surge in cases now that the kids are back in school, and then colleges reopening a couple of weeks later?
Joe Rogan COVID positive and taking his dewormer :abbath:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CTSsA8wAR2-/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet
You'll (genuinely) enjoy this astfgyl:
https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1433986508441198600
He's a funny lad :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I've said it before, but I really do understand why Ireland might be the most sense-of-injustice inducing country in this whole thing:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/leo-varadkar-festival-london-twitter-21486227
The political elite are too far above the mere contempt of their subjects.
Trying to book a Pfizer vaccination here is proving to be impossible. I think I'll just run the gauntlet of blood clots and get Astra Zeneca. I'm so utterly fucked off with lockdown.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 05, 2021, 06:54:32 PM
I've said it before, but I really do understand why Ireland might be the most sense-of-injustice inducing country in this whole thing:
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/leo-varadkar-festival-london-twitter-21486227
really is a case of do as I say not as I do. Ireland is a laughing stock!
Speaking of things that apparently shouldn't exist, how strange and unfitting of the "mainstream cover-up" narrative that the Guardian would publish this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study
Tragic one here; a young mother of four and her mother in Northern Ireland, within days of each other:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9996687/Unvaccinated-mother-55-daughter-32-die-Covid.html
A mother and a grandmother, and everyone they know of a like mind, should really have done a better job figuring four kids left without a mother into their risk-benefit calculations.
The Daily Reich.? You've stooped to a new low lad... :laugh:
Posted the article from The Daily Mail so as not to post the link from The Guardian, which is objectively the lesser of two evils but I thought more likely to provoke a superficial reaction from folk who don't want to engage with content. Should have counted more on those of ye who hop and change positions like butterflies to avoid engaging with actual content.
"It comes as the NHS in England officially launched its coronavirus booster campaign today, which will see millions of eligible people offered a Pfizer vaccine, or in some cases a half-dose of Moderna. "
There's the relevant bit. Might save a few the terrible ordeal of reading the article.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 29, 2021, 05:01:39 PM
Texas is up to a rolling 7-day average of 200+ deaths per day, most likely still set to increase given the magnitude in the surge of cases that's trailing behind (notice the very typical time-delay in Caleb Wallace's case between hospital admission and death - one month):
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/
Rolling 7-day average now up to 296 in Texas. Uncanny how I was able to predict that two weeks ago using only the most amount of data that has ever been gathered about a global pandemic over an 18 month period!
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/texas/
People die every day. Makes a nice change from gun deaths....
All good....
Don't worry, still plenty of that going on:
https://www.google.com/search?q=texas+shooting&sxsrf=AOaemvJJg47e1Uzi3eP6CgIlnDwW-ZWGtg:1631919198557&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikzIbhjIfzAhXBzoUKHfocDC0Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=739&dpr=2.5
Ah poor Texas and here was me pure loving Texas just because they had the stats to suit what I wanted for a time and then they didn't and then they did again just like everywhere else. At least their current bad stats can and will be used to suit whatever political agenda is on the cards this week so their intense loss and suffering won't be in vain
Whatever am I to infer from the stats that say none of it makes a blind bit of difference and that on a larger scale, on a worldwide societal level this shit will just have to run its course in the same way it does on the individual level.
Look to the past and wonder how the other pandemics ended. This was never the black plague and if it was we'd all be dead given how badly we've overreacted to something that kills about 1 in 1000 and probably less.
Failed the test badly. Imagine something with a 10 percent death rate.
Ireland has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world now, especially among the oldest, higher than Israel for example, and Ireland had almost no mortality fall-out from its recent surge in cases, as opposed to both Texas and Israel.
For better or worse, something with a 10 percent death rate would bring modern civilization to chaos and/or global martial law within about ten days.
I dunno if we'd even get the 10 days or of it!
What's the end goal here?
Talks of easing restrictions even though cases will rise... but when does it all stop?
Covid is going nowhere, the vaccine does not present transmission... even if every adult gets vaccinated, then what?
When can we be permitted to take these fucking masks off?
https://theirishinquiry.com/roundtable3/
Somebody sent me this hour long video. I don't have time to watch it right now, but it might be of interest to some of you.
QuoteThis hour long discussion shines new light on the political and medical decisions that have been taken over the past 18 months and calls into the question the real motivation behind lockdowns, mask mandates and the rollout of the vaccination programme.
Joining our host Sara Haboubi are Mattie McGrath (Independent TD), Dr. Micheal McConvill, Dr. Martin Feeley, Dr Vincent Carroll, Melissa Ciummei (investor) and Paddy Hennessey (Irish Nurses for Transparency and Openness).
The discussion took place at the beginning of this month.
Mattie is the far right now
Catch up
Quote from: astfgyl on July 05, 2021, 03:38:39 PM
Who gives a fuck about the number of mutations on the spike protein? It's just another angle to try keep the fear going and the variant shit has went up a notch since the renaming. Take the delta one for example, plenty of cases, fuck all hospitalisations, fuck all deaths. Take the Kent variant we were so scared of, fuck all deaths fuck all hospitalisations again. The fucking thing is seasonal so all the variant bullshit is simply bullshit until the winter illness season kicks back in and then whatever variant is in vogue will be blamed for extra deaths and more restrictions and booster shots and oh shit this one dodges the vaccine and oh no the unvaccinated can spread this one to the vaccinated and fuck we better give all the kids the vaccine as well just to be sure we can keep the schools open. Yeah it's seasonal. Imagine that, it's just like every other endemic respiratory virus doing the rounds including the several other coronaviruses which cause a common cold in people all over the world every year. Fucking variants, pure bullshit and go fuck with em. THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF VARIANTS ALREADY. Each new one of concern is of political concern
Meanwhile the segregation of society based on social status is going well in Ireland, where the VIP section of the pilot gig can mingle freely and der untermensch are in some sort of fucking sheep pen. For a seasonal virus which almost no one catches in the summer anyway just like all the other ones. Makes sense.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5hWoVpXIAA2dS7?format=jpg&name=small)
Filthy common scum, look at em.
I was going back through this thread looking for a video I'd linked along the way and the amount of I told ye so in this thread is nuts. I'd forgotten most of the things I wrote but fuck.
Anyone waking up yet?
By any chance was it the video of yer man on spring break talking about vaccines and then boosters and then more boosters?
Imagine being the Husband of a wife caught by the Cervical cancer misdiagnosis scandal and having to see Tony "key to Dublin city"'s spud head in the news every day.
Quote from: Giggles on October 28, 2021, 11:18:56 AM
By any chance was it the video of yer man on spring break talking about vaccines and then boosters and then more boosters?
It was! Lol
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2021/11/03/5-year-olds-soon-have-to-show-vaccine-cards-in-san-francisco-1392237
Going for lunch in San Francisco with your 5 year old? Better make sure the dirty lil fucker has the injection!
Everyone in my house got the virus except me and I am the only one who isn't vaccinated.
Purebloods 4e4
Quote from: mickO))) on November 09, 2021, 11:34:41 AM
Everyone in my house got the virus except me and I am the only one who isn't vaccinated.
You could have already had it before. I was in a similar situation last year, all my mates got it but I didn't. I'm pretty sure I already got it from being up the front at the last Exodus gig in Dublin. Was there with my mate who lost his sense of taste/smell a couple of days afterwards, so he most likely got it.
In other news, you can buy a fake irish covid cert on the dark web for about 3 fiddy https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/fake-irish-covid-certs-being-sold-on-dark-web-for-e350-1210748.html
Quote from: Giggles on November 09, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
In other news, you can buy a fake irish covid cert on the dark web for about 3 fiddy https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/fake-irish-covid-certs-being-sold-on-dark-web-for-e350-1210748.html
How is that possible though as the EU cert has the digital signature?
Quote from: Giggles on November 09, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on November 09, 2021, 11:34:41 AM
Everyone in my house got the virus except me and I am the only one who isn't vaccinated.
You could have already had it before. I was in a similar situation last year, all my mates got it but I didn't. I'm pretty sure I already got it from being up the front at the last Exodus gig in Dublin. Was there with my mate who lost his sense of taste/smell a couple of days afterwards, so he most likely got it.
In other news, you can buy a fake irish covid cert on the dark web for about 3 fiddy https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/fake-irish-covid-certs-being-sold-on-dark-web-for-e350-1210748.html
How exactly does one get on the dark Web? Youd imagine it'd riddled with special branch?
Quote from: Giggles on November 09, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
You could have already had it before.
I don't know don't think I had it before. I had a very mild cold for the last two weeks and maybe that was it, if it was so much for the unvaccinated will be hit hard when they get it.
Quote from: Blackout on November 09, 2021, 05:58:27 PM
How exactly does one get on the dark Web? Youd imagine it'd riddled with special branch?
All you need is a special browser to get access use to be TOR not sure if that is still the same. It is not surprising people are selling fake certs because people are starting to realize these certs are never going away and the restrictions are only going to get worse.
It will be interesting to see how people react once they start forcing the boosters which by the looks of it is going to start soon. .
Me ma was just telling me the husband of a friend has been in ICU for two months with it, wasn't vaccinated. She (the wife) only got vaccinated once he'd been moved from ward into ICU, both of them early 60s. Two months is a long time to be taking up an ICU bed because you didn't want to get vaccinated. And, unless you're extremely unlucky, have preexisting comorbidities, or are over 60 or so (holy christ, does this stuff still have to be repeated almost two years in????) then the chances of it going through you with either mild or no symptoms is the most likely outcome, vaccination or none.
A good portion of the sceptics would get it done eventually if it wasn't for all the bullshit propaganda and 'second class citizening'. Push it too hard, resistance. These goons don't read their history.
Their tactics don't help alright, but history doesn't help all that much when it comes to dealing with conspiracy theorists and anti-vax movements.
Also doesn't help that a lot of conspiracies deemed too ridiculous have actually come to fruition (vaccine passports etc) Meaning a lot of the nuts have some effective propaganda.
Yeah, there is certainly a bit of a point there, no denying it. Still though, half of those in ICU in Ireland at the moment are unvaccinated, and at some point people also have to take personal, familial, and civic responsibility on board themselves.
Did it before, but just to recall what "half in ICU are unvaccinated" more or less boils down to in terms of Ireland's adult vaccination rate: Say out of 1,000,000 adults you have 960,000 vaccinated, 40,000 unvaccinated, and 100 going to ICU every couple of months. 50 of that 100 are coming out of the 40,000, the other 50 out of the 960,000. Now, based on those figures, which group should the average adult, especially in the older brackets, choose to be in? Our pooor brains weren't designed for statistical thinking, but the odds are clear as day once you break them down in a way that's easier to mentally manipulate.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 09, 2021, 06:51:13 PM
Two months is a long time to be taking up an ICU bed because you didn't want to get vaccinated.
On the flip side of that, my friend knows a lad in her town who is suffering complications with an enlarged heart as a result from the Pfizer injection. He didn't want to get injected, but his family and friends were harassing him to get it, and he said "fuck it, I want to be able to enjoy a few pints".
It's a small town, only 800 or so and
apparently the nurse said that he was the 3rd or 4th young person (early 30's) in the town who got this enlarged heart condition from the Pfizer injection.
He had zero medical issues before, totally healthy lad. An enlarged heart is a hefty thing to deal with because he wanted to enjoy a few pints :-X
Quote from: pete on November 09, 2021, 04:37:46 PM
Quote from: Giggles on November 09, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
In other news, you can buy a fake irish covid cert on the dark web for about 3 fiddy https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/fake-irish-covid-certs-being-sold-on-dark-web-for-e350-1210748.html
How is that possible though as the EU cert has the digital signature?
From the article:
QuoteThe price includes a digital certificate containing a custom QR code, which will display the buyer's name when scanned.
It also includes a realistic-looking, printed HSE vaccination card. "Full Irish vaccine passport, not recorded on database," customers are told, meaning the code could not easily be cancelled by health authorities.
They're also offering fake negative pcr test results, or fake documents saying that the owner has already recovered from the virus.
Supply and demand.
Quote from: Giggles on November 10, 2021, 04:45:12 PM
On the flip side of that, my friend knows a lad in her town who is suffering complications with an enlarged heart as a result from the Pfizer injection. He didn't want to get injected, but his family and friends were harassing him to get it, and he said "fuck it, I want to be able to enjoy a few pints".
It's a small town, only 800 or so and apparently the nurse said that he was the 3rd or 4th young person (early 30's) in the town who got this enlarged heart condition from the Pfizer injection.
He had zero medical issues before, totally healthy lad. An enlarged heart is a hefty thing to deal with because he wanted to enjoy a few pints :-X
The real risk of heart inflammation from the Pfizer vaccine is about 1 in 50,000 for young men. The chances of four young men in one small town developing it are not non-existent, but highly, highly improbable, more improbable than, say, that element of the story being Chinese whispers.
Quote from: Giggles on November 10, 2021, 04:52:00 PM
Quote from: pete on November 09, 2021, 04:37:46 PM
Quote from: Giggles on November 09, 2021, 04:06:13 PM
In other news, you can buy a fake irish covid cert on the dark web for about 3 fiddy https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/fake-irish-covid-certs-being-sold-on-dark-web-for-e350-1210748.html
How is that possible though as the EU cert has the digital signature?
From the article:
QuoteThe price includes a digital certificate containing a custom QR code, which will display the buyer's name when scanned.
It also includes a realistic-looking, printed HSE vaccination card. "Full Irish vaccine passport, not recorded on database," customers are told, meaning the code could not easily be cancelled by health authorities.
They're also offering fake negative pcr test results, or fake documents saying that the owner has already recovered from the virus.
Supply and demand.
I read some more yesterday and there were examples of fake certs for adolf Hitler and mickey mouse or something, that when scanned did pass, to prove that they could create qr codes that could be validated with digital signature.
So there seems to be an investigation into whether there was a leak of the private key or just someone with access to a system issuing them.
I imagine more probable that someone got access to an unprotected signing service.
Interesting though:
https://github.com/ehn-dcc-development/hcert-spec/issues/103#issuecomment-953382640
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 10, 2021, 05:19:14 PMThe chances of four young men in one small town developing it are not non-existent, but highly, highly improbable, more improbable than, say, that element of the story being Chinese whispers.
Chinese whispers or not regarding the other supposed 3 or 4 people, the point I was making is that this one dude
definitely has a very real heart complication as a result from taking a "safe" injection that he didn't want, but felt forced into getting by pressure from his friends, family and government.
That's fucked up.
He was extremely unlucky, that's all, and hopefully and most likely he'll make a full recovery. There's a higher incidence of exactly the same heart inflammation condition among young male COVID patients than there is from vaccination.
The one minority that isn't worth defence. :laugh:
https://youtu.be/v_UUL7KdoJU
Government looking to extend covid restrictions beyond February.
The SCAMdemic needs more Greek letters thrown at it... :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 10, 2021, 02:26:35 PM
Yeah, there is certainly a bit of a point there, no denying it. Still though, half of those in ICU in Ireland at the moment are unvaccinated, and at some point people also have to take personal, familial, and civic responsibility on board themselves.
Did it before, but just to recall what "half in ICU are unvaccinated" more or less boils down to in terms of Ireland's adult vaccination rate: Say out of 1,000,000 adults you have 960,000 vaccinated, 40,000 unvaccinated, and 100 going to ICU every couple of months. 50 of that 100 are coming out of the 40,000, the other 50 out of the 960,000. Now, based on those figures, which group should the average adult, especially in the older brackets, choose to be in? Our pooor brains weren't designed for statistical thinking, but the odds are clear as day once you break them down in a way that's easier to mentally manipulate.
And they're running stroke response ads all of a sudden on national radio here in Ireland (probably on TV too). Wonder why that could be..?
Would you like another lesson in how to use the internet constructively? Note the publication date, November 2020, i.e. before anything was known about any vaccine related risk increase (which is, in any case, lower than the COVID related risk increase):
https://irishheart.ie/news/stroke-rate-tsunami-predicted-by-2030/
Aha, that old trick. Normalising stroke behaviour just before they inflict the Jew Juice across the nations. Keep trying boyo...
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 11, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Aha, that old trick. Normalising stroke behaviour just before they inflict the Jew Juice across the nations. Keep trying boyo...
Well, since your brain apparently has a stroke prior to every single post you make on this forum, I suppose you could be considered an authority in normalizing the behaviour.
Have you ever consulted a medical professional about your pathological levels of stupidity? I don't know whether you were always like this, since you would have been permanently banned from MI within a week if you'd come out with half the scutter you treat us to here, but if it is a recent thing, it could be a symptom of a serious underlying condition.
Just wait now for Kev to come in and chastise me for my condescending tone to someone who just used the expression "inflict the Jew Juice"...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 11, 2021, 03:32:45 PM
Well, since your brain apparently has a stroke prior to every single post you make on this forum,
I hear there's a cream for that.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 11, 2021, 03:32:45 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 11, 2021, 03:14:36 PM
Aha, that old trick. Normalising stroke behaviour just before they inflict the Jew Juice across the nations. Keep trying boyo...
Well, since your brain apparently has a stroke prior to every single post you make on this forum, I suppose you could be considered an authority in normalizing the behaviour.
Have you ever consulted a medical professional about your pathological levels of stupidity? I don't know whether you were always like this, since you would have been permanently banned from MI within a week if you'd come out with half the scutter you treat us to here, but if it is a recent thing, it could be a symptom of a serious underlying condition.
Just wait now for Kev to come in and chastise me for my condescending tone to someone who just used the expression "inflict the Jew Juice"...
Spicy!
Bravo for the previous 2 BSC posts, class :)
As if there were never regular ads for knowing the signs of a stroke. Some posts here could easily be confused with the warning signs.
I'm having a stroke right now. This thread is really delivering the goods.
Quote from: Giggles on November 10, 2021, 09:32:56 PM
https://youtu.be/v_UUL7KdoJU
Government looking to extend covid restrictions beyond February.
Apparently not.... as of yet... https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/covid-ireland-stephen-donnelly-issues-update-on-key-restrictions-change-and-vaccine-cert-expiry/ar-AAQz4xR
Tony wants covid certs to be required for access to gyms, barbers, hairdressers and maybe more https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/nphet-recommends-expanding-use-of-covid-passes-beyond-hospitality-sector/ar-AAQCHtW?cvid=262727c2063c4d52b0bb8dca4ef9e881&ocid=winp1taskbar
Where's the evidence that this is going to make things any safer for anybody?
Vaccinated stats of covid deaths in Ireland from 1st April 2021 - 6th November 2021 - https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Death%20and%20Vaccination%20Report.pdf
606 deaths since April
243, or 40.1% of those deaths were not vaccinated.
Quote from: Giggles on November 12, 2021, 03:29:36 PM
Tony wants covid certs to be required for access to gyms, barbers, hairdressers and maybe more https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/nphet-recommends-expanding-use-of-covid-passes-beyond-hospitality-sector/ar-AAQCHtW?cvid=262727c2063c4d52b0bb8dca4ef9e881&ocid=winp1taskbar
Where's the evidence that this is going to make things any safer for anybody?
I'm in Chile at the moment and you've to show your vaccination cert if you want to get into a restaurant, pub etc. Every shop has a temperature check at the entrance. And you've to wear the mask on the street. When they had lockdown here it was full on. Only allowed out for exercise between 6am and 9am and only 1 member of a family allowed out for groceries one or two times in the week with a pass.
We love to complain about having it tough in Ireland but really we had nothing compared to a lot of places.
We've had it rougher than some, but also not as rough as others that's for sure.
But once again I'll ask what's the end goal here? If everybody on the planet gets vaccinated, then what? There's still going to be a virus.
What's the vaccination rate among adults in Ireland at now, 90%? More? Case numbers higher than they've been in months. How the fuck will the prevention of unvaccinated people from socializing with the upper class going to change anything, and where is the evidence for it?
Divide and conquer. Class wards, race wars, whatever is up next wars. Rat on your neighbour for absolution. Feeling particular nihilistic this evening.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 11, 2021, 07:13:40 AM
The SCAMdemic needs more Greek letters thrown at it... :laugh:
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1111/1259191-coronavirus-global/
QuoteIn what it called a world first, Israel today held a "war game drill" in case of an outbreak of a new lethal variant of Covid-19.
Civilian and military officials took part in the exercises, named "Omega" after the supposed strain, held at Jerusalem's nuclear blast-proof National Management Center.
The simulation covered different aspects of a crisis, including mass inoculation, ordering curfews and imposing a flight ban, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett's office said.
Apparently Austria are "days away" from an unvaccinated people only lockdown.
Quote from: Giggles on November 12, 2021, 06:49:27 PM
What's the vaccination rate among adults in Ireland at now, 90%? More? Case numbers higher than they've been in months. How the fuck will the prevention of unvaccinated people from socializing with the upper class going to change anything, and where is the evidence for it?
Pretty sure the only (admittedly machiavellian) logic behind it is just to shake as many still unvaccinated into getting vaccinated. Since, as you highlighted yourself above, rates of death and ICU admission are still massively skewed towards the unvaccinated, trying to get the last of them done by whatever means possible is the only game in town, outside of lifting all restrictions completely and throwing caution and the medical system to the wind. If you were the health executive right now, looking at figures which, in a nutshell, say you could have 50 ICU beds more free right now merely by the last 5-10% adults getting vaccinated, what kind of action would you encourage the government towards?
I may be missing something but how is 60/40 massively skewed towards the unvaccinated?
Because the unvaccinated are a tiny minority of people, ~5-10% of older adults (and it's been that way for months now in Ireland), but nevertheless still make up 40% of the deaths since April. Most of the deaths are still coming from comorbidities and old age, etc., but it's pretty unambiguous that the chances of ending up in ICU and/or dying from COVID are roughly 16 times higher (that's the figure being presented as a global average; the Irish figures go in the same direction) among the unvaccinated.
Think of it this way (totally invented illustration): 100 people, 10 of them heavy smokers. 10 out of the 100 die of lung cancer, 6 non-smokers, 4 heavy smokers. So 6.7% of non smokers but 40% of heavy smokers developed lethal lung cancer. Based on figures like that, would we say smoking is or isn't a lung cancer risk factor?
But what happens when you factor in underlying conditions?
80% of covid patients in ICU have underlying medical conditions: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/two-most-common-high-risk-25415109
72% of deaths in that death report I posted yesterday had underlying medical conditions.
Average age of deaths is 80.
If you're old and/or have underlying conditions you'd probably want to be getting the injection anyway.
Last I checked, there was not an abundance of 80 year olds hanging out in gyms and nightclubs.
I'd imagine that most people who haven't had the injection don't have underlying conditions (and thus don't feel the need to get it), and are decades away from 80.
Quote from: Giggles on November 13, 2021, 11:54:33 AM
I'd imagine that most people who haven't had the injection don't have underlying conditions (and thus don't feel the need to get it), and are decades away from 80.
Maybe most, but not counting the dead ones and those spending one to two months or more in ICU, right? ;)
I've been against these health pass things since the beginning, I hate being asked for it here; in Paris you're asked for it even if you're just having coffee outside. But, on the other hand, I'm also against people clogging up the medical services primarily because they've swallowed gallons of absolute bullshit online, via WhatsApp, or from wherever. The figures now speak for themselves; for all the bullshit governments have been coming out with, clearly the greater bullshit is coming from those actively dissuading people from getting vaccinated.
Quote from: Giggles on November 13, 2021, 11:54:33 AM
But what happens when you factor in underlying conditions?
80% of covid patients in ICU have underlying medical conditions: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/two-most-common-high-risk-25415109
72% of deaths in that death report I posted yesterday had underlying medical conditions.
Average age of deaths is 80.
If you're old and/or have underlying conditions you'd probably want to be getting the injection anyway.
Last I checked, there was not an abundance of 80 year olds hanging out in gyms and nightclubs.
I'd imagine that most people who haven't had the injection don't have underlying conditions (and thus don't feel the need to get it), and are decades away from 80.
And bear in mind that those death rates include people dying
with Covid as well as those dying
from Covid, and given the average age... The numbers are largely irrelevant.
Falling back on the distinction between with and from does nothing to explain why the unvaccinated are statistically over-represented among COVID deaths and hospital admissions. I mean, yeah, unless you arbitrarily decide that the numbers are irrelevant of course.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2021, 12:15:33 PMBut, on the other hand, I'm also against people clogging up the medical services primarily because they've swallowed gallons of absolute bullshit online, via WhatsApp, or from wherever.
That's understandable, but is there any evidence to support the notion that those specific people without the injection wouldn't have ended up in ICU anyway, injections or no?
And what are their ages and underlying conditions and medical history? Imagine if let's say half of the "unvaccinated" currently in ICU are 80+, and for whatever reasons, they are not eligible for the injection. That's not going to produce an accurate portrayal of the "unvaccinated" group at large.
Quote from: Giggles on November 13, 2021, 12:55:15 PM
That's understandable, but is there any evidence to support the notion that those specific people without the injection wouldn't have ended up in ICU anyway, injections or no?
Yes, there is statistical evidence which is replicated in almost every country in the west; if you're not vaccinated, then - all other things being equal - you have a much higher chance of ending up in hospital, in ICU, or dead with/from COVID than if you are vaccinated.
Quote from: Giggles on November 13, 2021, 12:55:15 PM
And what are their ages and underlying conditions and medical history? Imagine if let's say half of the "unvaccinated" currently in ICU are 80+, and for whatever reasons, they are not eligible for the injection. That's not going to produce an accurate portrayal of the "unvaccinated" group at large.
There is, on the other hand, no solid evidence to suggest that any significant proportion of the unvaccinated in hospital, in ICU, or dead with/from COVID were unvaccinated due to being ineligible.
That is a flight of fancy.
No there isn't any evidence for my imaginary scenario there, but the point I'm making is that we're being bombarded with numbers every day, and often with no context. We're not being reminded on a daily basis that (currently) 72% of those in ICU have underlying conditions. We're not being reminded that over 4000 of the total 5500 deaths have had underlying conditions.
X amount in ICU are unvaccinated.
Right, but how old are they and what underlying conditions do they already have?
Stats indicate that not having the injection might give you a higher chance of ending up in ICU, but in the majority of young healthy people with no underlying conditions, surely that "higher chance" could equate to absolutely fuck all?
Here:
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19intensivecareadmissions/COVID-19_ICU_Weekly_Report_02%20Nov_2021_website.pdf
That's an up to date 6 month summary of COVID ICU admissions ( = 400 admissions, including the 90 or so still in there):
60% unvaccinated.
80% with underlying medical conditions.
Over 90% under the age of 75 (just over 25% under the age of 45, i.e. 100 people in the last six months).
Seems kinda clear that vaccination also keeps those with underlying medical conditions out of ICU. And this is what we've been told all along, which is why people with underlying medical conditions were prioritized for vaccination since the beginning, along with the elderly. You can also scroll to the bottom of the document for a summary of admissions info from the previous waves. Seems as time goes on the percentage of younger people being admitted is increasing, which also makes sense since vaccination coverage in the very oldest in Ireland is one of the highest in Europe.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2021, 01:59:06 PM
Seems kinda clear that vaccination also keeps those with underlying medical conditions out of ICU.
I don't understand how you came to this conclusion?
Quote from: Giggles on November 13, 2021, 03:37:23 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2021, 01:59:06 PM
Seems kinda clear that vaccination also keeps those with underlying medical conditions out of ICU.
I don't understand how you came to this conclusion?
Yeah, trying to explain it is a proper head bender and all, so apologies if I'm just confusing the matter even more, but I'll try again.
Making a modest assumption that underlying medical conditions are spread more or less evenly among the vaccinated and unvaccinated...
If vaccination
wasn't helping to keep those with underlying medical conditions out of ICU/alive, then we should expect to see a much higher proportion of vaccinated people in ICU, since there is a much higher proportion of vaccinated people in the general adult population. If vaccination status had a negligible impact, compared to underlying medical conditions, on the chances of ending up in ICU then we should expect the proportion of vaccinated vs unvaccinated people in ICU to reflect, give or take, the proportion of vaccinated vs unvaccinated in the general adult population, so 9 to 1 or thereabouts. But this isn't what's seen; the numbers, in Ireland and every other place I've looked at, reflect vaccination contributing strongly to keeping people out of ICU, underlying medical conditions or not, the proportion in Ireland right now being more like 1 to 1, even split.
I've read your post a few times and I still don't get it. Might just sit this one out :-X
A lot of mixed messages coming from the government vs reality: https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/other/will-ireland-face-more-restrictions-this-christmas-covid-latest-as-micheal-martin-shares-bleak-outlook/ar-AAQHmyq
The reality is that clubs and pubs are open and we're permitted to go (if you're privileged to do so), but at the same time, Big Tony is asking people to work from home and limit social contacts.
Quote"The evidence intentionally is that the booster third dose is quite impactful, more impactful than the second dose, it is being said. Our data from the over 80's already is encouraging in that respect".
I can't help but be incredibly skeptic about that quote. This time last year we were waiting on the vaccine to save us and be the "light out of the tunnel". But oh no wait, they're not good enough now, wait until you get your THIRD shot and then you'll be flying.
The way things are going, Netherlands with their current 7pm curfew and with this wave probably going to be the biggest yet, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to enforce some sort of partial lockdown between now and christmas. They'll do the usual blame the people instead of blaming themselves for the state of the public health sector.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 31, 2021, 01:30:31 PM
Quote from: Giggles on October 28, 2021, 11:18:56 AM
By any chance was it the video of yer man on spring break talking about vaccines and then boosters and then more boosters?
It was! Lol
Gotta admit, some of his predictions were spot on:
https://twitter.com/ZNeveri/status/1349460356595376133
Ha, is the above what "Might just sit this one out" means?
Is the "7pm curfew" the 8pm bars and restaurants closing time? I can't find 7pm mentioned anywhere? Or mention of a curfew in the Netherlands.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/austria-orders-non-vaccinated-people-into-covid-19-lockdown-2021-11-14/
In light of an only 65% vaccination rate, Austria becomes the first European nation to wholly remove all notion of freedom from individual choice to be vaccinated:
Quote"In reality we have told one third of the population: you will not leave your apartment anymore apart from for certain reasons. That is a massive reduction in contacts between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated," [Chancellor] Schallenberg said.
No longer an option to present a negative test. Vaccinated or locked down. Can't help finding it interesting that it's one of Western Europe's most right leaning governments, given that the excesses of COVID measures are usually pegged as being part of some leftist intrigue.
Quote from: pete on November 14, 2021, 11:41:25 PM
Is the "7pm curfew" the 8pm bars and restaurants closing time? I can't find 7pm mentioned anywhere? Or mention of a curfew in the Netherlands.
7pm https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/11/the-netherlands-faces-three-weeks-of-partial-lockdown-cafes-to-close-at-7pm/
And this one mentions a curfew in place in the headline https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10199603/Streets-Netherlands-deserted-curfew-comes-in.html
I looked them up there just now. My previous comment referred to an article I read yesterday morning that mentioned a 7pm curfew.
It would appear that "curfew" is the incorrect term to use in this case, I don't think there is a ban on people being outside. There is a restriction in place for non-essential services to close at 8pm.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 15, 2021, 12:09:50 AM
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/austria-orders-non-vaccinated-people-into-covid-19-lockdown-2021-11-14/
No longer an option to present a negative test. Vaccinated or locked down.
That's pretty shit, surely a negative test, or better yet a recent proof of recovery should trump a vaccine cert?
What would happen if everybody got the injection and the cases/hospitalizations still manage to rise past breaking point. Who would the government blame if there were no more unvaccinated people to point the finger at?
....
See where it says "brain injury charitable foundation" on the side of the bus there?? Traumatic brain injury has always been one of the most common reasons children end up in hospital. I have colleagues who work on TBI, but since they've only published post-2020 I'll sidestep the bullshit response your own brain is already preparing to fart out and go to research from a few years earlier, 2017:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.117.017327
QuoteTraumatic brain injury (TBI) leads to nearly 300 000 annual US hospitalizations and increased lifetime risk of acute ischemic stroke (AIS)
...
Vigilance for AIS is warranted acutely after TBI, particularly after high-velocity events.
Did you even think to look up the website clearly printed there??
https://www.achievingbeyondbraininjury.com/our-inspiration
Not convinced? How about one of those kid's own personal website, set up in 2015? All part of the "preparation" too?
https://www.iloveyourbrain.com/
At some point, the mildest level of self-reflection should have you realize that all your sources of information are bullshit, no matter what the subject is. People like you, too lazy to do even the minimum amount of personal verification, are exhausting humanity. You have to feel sorry for those two mothers, who set up a charity so that dealing with stroke would be easier on future parents than it was for them, now just having their good works turned into scutter by mean-spirited eejits like you.
Quote from: Giggles on November 15, 2021, 12:55:05 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 15, 2021, 12:09:50 AM
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/austria-orders-non-vaccinated-people-into-covid-19-lockdown-2021-11-14/
No longer an option to present a negative test. Vaccinated or locked down.
That's pretty shit, surely a negative test, or better yet a recent proof of recovery should trump a vaccine cert?
What would happen if everybody got the injection and the cases/hospitalizations still manage to rise past breaking point. Who would the government blame if there were no more unvaccinated people to point the finger at?
Seems like they don't care if you're healthy or not, just if you're vaccinated or not. Conspiracy theorists will be having a ball now.
Croatian lad saying 'having a ball' 😂Amazing :)
I got several thumbs up and even more questions when I shouted 'Kosovo je Srbija' at a Red Star basketball game in my thick Kilkenny accent :)
Incredibly frightening however if other countries follow this process it will be truely terrifying. I feel for those in Austria who cannot get vaccinated for health reasons.
Quote from: warhead on November 15, 2021, 05:29:30 PM
Quote from: Giggles on November 15, 2021, 12:55:05 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 15, 2021, 12:09:50 AM
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/austria-orders-non-vaccinated-people-into-covid-19-lockdown-2021-11-14/
No longer an option to present a negative test. Vaccinated or locked down.
That's pretty shit, surely a negative test, or better yet a recent proof of recovery should trump a vaccine cert?
What would happen if everybody got the injection and the cases/hospitalizations still manage to rise past breaking point. Who would the government blame if there were no more unvaccinated people to point the finger at?
Seems like they don't care if you're healthy or not, just if you're vaccinated or not. Conspiracy theorists will be having a ball now.
Most of the conspiracies have come true.
My unvaXXXed sperm raises in value as each day rolls by... :laugh:
https://mobile.twitter.com/suigunheishi/status/1460316829801398273?s=21
The flu vaccine doesn't stop you getting the flu. It just lessons the effect of the flu. Same as the Covid vaccine. Look the whole thing is a shit show. But the vaccine has worked in reducing the number of deaths. Significantly. Whatever noise is generated about vaccinated and unvaccinated at least the primary reason for the vaccine worked. There's families that will still have loved ones to see this Christmas because of the vaccine and that's a good thing.
As I understand it, the cases have gone through the roof in Ireland but the hospitalizations have remained at a sustainable level. I think that keeping pressure off the hospitals was the aim all along and hopefully things can remain open regardless of the number of non-serious cases. Whatever about the predictable left/ right horseshite divide going on, having society go back to normal is all that really matters.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on November 15, 2021, 05:50:42 PM
Croatian lad saying 'having a ball' 😂Amazing :)
I got several thumbs up and even more questions when I shouted 'Kosovo je Srbija' at a Red Star basketball game in my thick Kilkenny accent :)
I have no clue, man......I'm just using different expressions I've heard in different places over time. I've learned English watching USA movies mostly. And am sure to be using all the expressions people have mentioned in the pet peevee thread.
I've listened to a lot of Misfits lately, could have used having a blast as well. It's all the same crap to me :)
Kosovo je Srbija have become almost like an audio version of a meme to people in the neighboring countries to Serbia :)
Climate change. Eggs n bacon... :laugh:
https://mobile.twitter.com/LokiJulianus/status/1459948543129661449?s=20
Obviously retarded to say that a study is "about" the stock image the Times newspaper decided to use to illustrate it, but diabetes has been on the rise for years in young people in western nations. Diabetes rises, heart disease rises. And what is one of the major causes of secondary diabetes? Even you should know this one KC.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 16, 2021, 09:30:46 AMAnd what is one of the major causes of secondary diabetes? Even you should know this one KC.
Probably the Jews
Let's tax eggs and bacon. That'll solve it!
Quote from: Trev on November 16, 2021, 10:50:43 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 16, 2021, 09:30:46 AMAnd what is one of the major causes of secondary diabetes? Even you should know this one KC.
Probably the Jews
Bingo! Making the bacon the perfect diversion tactic!
The most vaccinated region on Earth has now cancelled Christmas due to "exponential" rise in cases
Gibraltar; the most vaccinated region on Earth (100% fully vaccinated, 40% boosted) has now cancelled Christmas due to "exponential" rise in cases.
Dayum, the turkeys will be happy though...
Cases v Deaths on World-o-Meter
Januray is going to be a shit show by the looks of it!!
(https://i.redd.it/q48liagnxqz71.png)
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf
QuoteBetween April 1st and November 6th 2021:
• 541 persons (aged 15 + years) were reported to the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) as
admitted to ICU with confirmed COVID-19 infection.
• 349/541 (65%) cases reported as not having received a COVID-19 vaccine or were not registered as
vaccinated on Ireland's national COVID-19 immunisation system (COVAX).
• 192/541 (35%) cases were reported as having received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine
prior to admission to ICU.
• 147/541 (27%) cases were vaccine breakthrough infections (see technical note)
QuoteOf the breakthrough infections (n=147):
• 94 were male and 53 were female
• Median age was 66 years (range: 30 to 88 years); Mean age was 65 years
• 143 cases (97%) were reported to have an underlying medical condition
• 60 cases (41%) were reported to have died
• There was one admission to ICU in June, 6 in July, 39 in August, 42 in September, 53 in October, and
6 in November
I hear the nightclubs will be shut again starting Thursday. Bad buzz for owners and punters alike.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage
Of the breakthrough infections (n=147):
• 143 cases (97%) were reported to have an underlying medical condition
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2021, 01:59:06 PM
Seems kinda clear that vaccination also keeps those with underlying medical conditions out of ICU.
97% of vaccinated patients admitted to ICU had at least one underlying condition. What am I overlooking here?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 17, 2021, 01:05:10 AM
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf
QuoteBetween April 1st and November 6th 2021:
• 541 persons (aged 15 + years) were reported to the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) as
admitted to ICU with confirmed COVID-19 infection.
• 349/541 (65%) cases reported as not having received a COVID-19 vaccine or were not registered as
vaccinated on Ireland's national COVID-19 immunisation system (COVAX).
• 192/541 (35%) cases were reported as having received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine
prior to admission to ICU.
• 147/541 (27%) cases were vaccine breakthrough infections (see technical note)
QuoteOf the breakthrough infections (n=147):
• 94 were male and 53 were female
• Median age was 66 years (range: 30 to 88 years); Mean age was 65 years
• 143 cases (97%) were reported to have an underlying medical condition
• 60 cases (41%) were reported to have died
• There was one admission to ICU in June, 6 in July, 39 in August, 42 in September, 53 in October, and
6 in November
I hear the nightclubs will be shut again starting Thursday. Bad buzz for owners and punters alike.
We'll be at booster #20 in no time lads & lassies. Keep us the good work. :laugh:
Quote from: Giggles on November 17, 2021, 03:48:47 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage
Of the breakthrough infections (n=147):
• 143 cases (97%) were reported to have an underlying medical condition
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 13, 2021, 01:59:06 PM
Seems kinda clear that vaccination also keeps those with underlying medical conditions out of ICU.
97% of vaccinated patients admitted to ICU had at least one underlying condition. What am I overlooking here?
It's the same explanation as earlier; given how many hundreds of thousands of vaccinated people in Ireland have underlying comorbidities (diabetes, heart disease, lung disease, obesity, to mention only the most historically common ones in Ireland), there should be far more vaccinated patients in hospital with COVID compared to unvaccinated patients in hospital with COVID
if the vaccination was having no effect. There are roughly 10 times more vaccinated than unvaccinated people in the major at risk population (i.e. the 65+ population), yet (from the figures above) there are almost twice as many unvaccinated as vaccinated people in ICU. That one sentence should be explanation enough, surely?
Reckon they'll eventually lump these boosters into the yearly flu jab?
Quote from: The Butcher on November 17, 2021, 10:10:26 AM
Reckon they'll eventually lump these boosters into the yearly flu jab?
Probably. It's going to end up as an annual thing.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 17, 2021, 10:00:53 AM
there are almost twice as many unvaccinated as vaccinated people in ICU. That one sentence should be explanation enough, surely?
At face value, maybe. But I'm still curious as to how many of those unvaccinated would have ended up in ICU anyway, because of an underlying condition.
We're told that 97% of the vaccine group had underlying conditions, how many of the unvaccinated group had underlying conditions? Probably most of them?
I think we can both agree that underlying condition = higher chance of ICU.
And since about 93% of the adult population got the injection, I think we can agree that a
massive portion of the vaccinated group are healthy with no underlying conditions and are never going to end up in ICU anyway.
Makes me wonder that if all the super healthy people didn't get the injection - because let's face it, they probably don't need it - you'd have no choice but to look at this differently, as we could be looking at the
same people going to ICU anyway, but the ratios of vaccinated/unvaccinated status would be much different.
As an aside - that report notes that unvaccinated person = person
not registered on Ireland's national covid scheme.
So does that mean that if a vaccinated tourist is on holidays in Ireland and ends up in ICU, they're counted as unvaccinated because they're not registered here?
And what about non-nationals who would have returned to their home countries during the pandemic. If they got their injection at home, are they registered on our covid scheme when they come back into the country?
I understand that these specific groups might not equate to a large amount, but I'm curious all the same.
If they could have vaccinated only 100% of people over 65+ (many of whom may have underlying conditions they've never consulted for/are not aware of), 100% of people with diabetes, 100% of clinically obese people, 100% of people with heart disease... we can go on, but yeah, that would have been great I guess. But clearly that would also have been just as impossible as vaccinating the entire nation, since we know by the hospital and ICU admissions details that not all of the people who do have underlying conditions have gone to be vaccinated yet. I don't think there's an easy out, all while admitting that the strategies adopted are not optimal. What can you do when despite 18 months of underlining the mortality link to comorbidities, you still have people with comorbidities swallowing bullshit about the vaccine that makes them believe their chances are better without??
I think we can agree that it's all been a shit show as far as strategy goes. I'm just concerned as to whether or not the figures reported are an actual representation of what's going on.
People with underlying conditions who won't/can't get the injection are going to in ICU - but they could have ended up in ICU anyway even if they had the injection.
But the ratios show x/y
But the ratios are skewed as one group has hundreds of thousands (possibly a million?) of healthy people who will never (by our current understand of the virus) end up in ICU as a covid patient, regardless of which group they're in. Surely that's sound logic?
I'm not saying that I think the vaccine is ineffective, nor am I anti-vax, but I think that the statistical representation of vaccinated/unvaccinated in ICU as a % is bogus.
The comorbidities group combined is probably closer to a million tbh. Almost 200,000 for diabetes alone, and that's only confirmed cases.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 17, 2021, 01:05:10 AM
I hear the nightclubs will be shut again starting Thursday. Bad buzz for owners and punters alike.
No easy way out indeed but these type of restrictions just makes a mockery of everything. More authority is lost each time they do something stupid or half hearted. This happening within memory of the 2008 crash bank/property bubble lies is interesting too, will reinforce loss of trust, all the while ff fg green government are so CLEARLY working against the interests of the people (vulture funds etc).
Was reading 26% Irish adults were obese in 2019 (56% classified as overweight). Eurostat figures show that just over half of all adults in the EU are overweight and an estimated 2 in 3 (67%) Australians aged 18 and over were overweight or obese. Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection. The risk of severe COVID-19 illness increases sharply with elevated BMI. From the looks of it, this is going to go on forever if there isn't some kind of huge dip post Winter peak. You mentioned the comorbidities group numbers...not looking good.
The Shinners will romp home at the next general election. No doubt about it.
More doom and gloom up north with covid passports being a requirement for gigs and nightclubs.
When will the penny ever drop.... Hmmmmm mmmm?
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on November 17, 2021, 06:06:32 PM
More doom and gloom up north with covid passports being a requirement for gigs and nightclubs.
I'd rather passports be implemented here than the current 12am nonsense.
That is exactly how they will continue to foist whatever nonsense they want on us. Compliance through convenience.
It's what they've been doing all along and people who have objected are labeled Far/alt - right or anti-vax.
As a country we are absolute cowards when it comes to protesting for fear of social reprisals.
The herd of ghouls go bananas over the merest hint of wrongthink, anyone even considers protesting restrictions and, yeah, it's a shadowy far right group committing 'violence' on one 'community' or another.
They have us by the plums.
It has been a total success.
It's depressing.
It's been a success in no small part also because the side of the protestors literally has been a soapbox for some of the most incredible idiocy that has been given voice and ears in recent history. Attempts to smear protests probably would have been made anyway, but jesus h christ was it made easy for the powers that be.
John Waters and Gemma O'Doherty please stand up in front of the class.
A mate of mine living in Canada mentioned this to me yesterday and I literally couldn't believe it. Far worse than Austria's recent iron curtain style measure:
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-students-told-not-to-speak-during-lunch-to-reduce-the-spread-of-covid-19-1.5635328
The headline says "students", but these are little kids, instructed not to talk to each other during lunch, i.e. during the time when they're eating so don't have masks on.
That is just fucked up.
Going through the hassle of getting my certificate and this bloody app. My identity has to be confirmed manually as I guess my driver's license is old and grubby and couldn't automatically be approved.
Wonder what less technical folk are going to do? They might as well start sewing on those yellow stars.
Quote from: Leo Varadkar
Around 94% of adults are fully vaccinated. Unfortunately, the 5% that aren't are the ones causing trouble
Oh Leo, the trouble stems from the fact that your government handles the healthcare system like you just handled basic math: not good
Irish government have historically royally fucked up the health system, but (fair enough thanks also to public compliance) the vaccination roll out in Ireland has been fairly exemplary, compared to other countries.
That's a pretty funny mistake by Leo though :laugh:
If they don't do something to improve the health care sector after the hullabaloo of the past two years then they never will. I wonder how many young people who would have been drawn into nursing are looking at this shit show and reconsidering their options. I have a dread feeling that things are only going to become worse.
We haven't had a census since 2016, I reckon we are underestimating the amount of unvaccinated.
Quote from: The Butcher on November 18, 2021, 09:49:15 PM
We haven't had a census since 2016, I reckon we are underestimating the amount of unvaccinated.
This 80% vaccinated the government is spouting is absolute bollox. Much like the rest of the shite they are coming out with.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/austria-imposes-national-lockdown-as-covid-cases-continue-to-soar-1216089.html
Austria going into lockdown on Monday, schools closed, work from home etc. Doesn't matter if you got the injection or not.
Covid injections mandatory from Feb 1st. Looking to impose fines for those who refuse:
QuoteThe chancellor said the details would be finalised in the coming weeks but those who continued to refuse to get vaccinated would have to expect to get fined.
"For a long time, the consensus in this country was that we didn't want mandatory vaccination," Mr Schallenberg said.
"For a long time, perhaps too long."
Aren't there europeqn laws against that type of enforcement?
Got my passport sorted there. Wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Now I can dance and play in the cinema, restraunts and bars.
Thankfully, the only passports you need around here for pubbing are the ones you get from an ATM... :abbath:
Word going around pubs & hotels (coming from suplliers) is that the pubs will be shut within a fortnight.
Time for a few flaylings on the gates of Dáil Éireann methinks... :abbath:
Quote from: Blackout on November 18, 2021, 09:58:01 AM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on November 17, 2021, 06:06:32 PM
More doom and gloom up north with covid passports being a requirement for gigs and nightclubs.
I'd rather passports be implemented here than the current 12am nonsense.
The problem with this is once the passports are implemented they are never going away and will just keep getting worse. All of this isn't going to stop until the people of the country say enough is enough.
Look at the outrage the passports caused back in July now the citizens of the country are policing the vaccine passports for the Government.
Quote from: mickO))) on November 19, 2021, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: Blackout on November 18, 2021, 09:58:01 AM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on November 17, 2021, 06:06:32 PM
More doom and gloom up north with covid passports being a requirement for gigs and nightclubs.
I completely agree but the point is nobody is using to kick up a fuss. The younger generation are too busy looking at their phones while their futures are being sold down the river.
It took 800 years to get rid of the brits. The cunts starved us to death, enslaved us, murdered us etc etc. Yet despite this we still have people who support the union.
I'd rather passports be implemented here than the current 12am nonsense.
The problem with this is once the passports are implemented they are never going away and will just keep getting worse. All of this isn't going to stop until the people of the country say enough is enough.
Look at the outrage the passports caused back in July now the citizens of the country are policing the vaccine passports for the Government.
In the spirit of a picture (not mine) painting a thousand words (mine):
https://twitter.com/tomsmeetsBE/status/1461646361502359552?t=zQh8LUBb3hoQo1Wyq-ABJw&s=19
Wow that unvaccinated bubble is very small in comparison.
It's almost as if all the perfectly healthy young people with no underlying conditions, that would have been in the unvaccinated bubble by default, were somehow coerced into an injection they don't need, as they will never end up in ICU. And now they're literally inflating the vaccinated bubble and it all seems more impressive than it should be.
There's no data to suggest that perfectly healthy young people with no underlying conditions and young people with underlying conditions are not proportionately spread across the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. In fact, people under 60 are the ones
over-represented in the unvaccinated group, since the vaccinated group contains ~100% of adults over 60. I think you're not really making an effort here to entertain the idea that you may need to revise the belief you've come to the table with. Here's the latest vaccination rates by age group:
Quote80+ years
100.0%
70-79 years
100.0%
60-69 years
99.6%
50-59 years
97.8%
25-49 years
85.7%
18-24 years
81.1%
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-tracker-how-many-people-have-been-inoculated-in-ireland-1.4481095
Quote from: Giggles on November 20, 2021, 05:24:16 PM
Wow that unvaccinated bubble is very small in comparison.
It's almost as if all the perfectly healthy young people with no underlying conditions, that would have been in the unvaccinated bubble by default, were somehow coerced into an injection they don't need, as they will never end up in ICU. And now they're literally inflating the vaccinated bubble and it all seems more impressive than it should be.
Yep, add to that the people in the unvaxed bubble that aren't vaxed due to being immune compromised, who of course have a far higher chance of ending up in ICU at the best of times.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on November 20, 2021, 05:40:15 PM
Quote from: Giggles on November 20, 2021, 05:24:16 PM
Wow that unvaccinated bubble is very small in comparison.
It's almost as if all the perfectly healthy young people with no underlying conditions, that would have been in the unvaccinated bubble by default, were somehow coerced into an injection they don't need, as they will never end up in ICU. And now they're literally inflating the vaccinated bubble and it all seems more impressive than it should be.
Yep, add to that the people in the unvaxed bubble that aren't vaxed due to being immune compromised, who of course have a far higher chance of ending up in ICU at the best of times.
Again, this cuts both ways; Giggles even leaned on this to try and make one of his earlier points - 98% of
vaccinated COVID patients who end up in ICU are immunocompromised in one way or another. So, it still doesn't help to account for the fact that the unvaccinated are massively over-represented in ICU.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 20, 2021, 05:43:32 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on November 20, 2021, 05:40:15 PM
Quote from: Giggles on November 20, 2021, 05:24:16 PM
Wow that unvaccinated bubble is very small in comparison.
It's almost as if all the perfectly healthy young people with no underlying conditions, that would have been in the unvaccinated bubble by default, were somehow coerced into an injection they don't need, as they will never end up in ICU. And now they're literally inflating the vaccinated bubble and it all seems more impressive than it should be.
Yep, add to that the people in the unvaxed bubble that aren't vaxed due to being immune compromised, who of course have a far higher chance of ending up in ICU at the best of times.
Again, this cuts both ways; Giggles even leaned on this to try and make one of his earlier points - 98% of vaccinated COVID patients who end up in ICU are immunocompromised in one way or another. So, it still doesn't help to account for the fact that the unvaccinated are massively over-represented in ICU.
My penis is massively over-represented in my pants, but of course, I am wearing tiny, tiny pants.
Careful they don't cut off blood supply to the rest of your body; could provoke a stroke. Of one kind or another, ooo-err.
Oh you naughty boy.
Incidentally, a great way to increase my chances of getting a stroke would be to get injected with an mrna vaccine, the ladies love it,
A really low percentage of people in Africa are vaccinated, yet, there are almost no newly infected.
My brain is too small to follow what is going on around........
Don't know the Africa situation so well, but couple of things to think about:
Many African countries can't afford a vaccination programme, and similarly couldn't and can't afford a full testing programme, so most cases are presumed to be going undetected (just checked; only about 1 in 7 estimated to be detected in sub-Saharan Africa).
Average life expectancy across Africa for males is 63 compared to 71 in the rest of the world (~79 in Europe and the US, so compared to us that's a large 16 year difference), so less deaths from COVID "possible" since it most heavily targets ageing populations. Of course, "possible" here has explicitly morbid connotations, so not exactly a good argument to roll out in a kind of, "Africa's doing great!" sense.
Exactly - Take Ethiopia for example, haven't even tested 2 million people out of their 110+ million population, initially they were sending samples to South Africa to get tests done. Although that's much improved now (72 labs with a total of 13,000+ tests daily) - the whole continent is weakly equipped to test/vaccinate etc, there is no way you could believe that they have "almost no newly infected." It's not realistic.
--duplicate
Any indication of an increase in their death rates in general?
You can get lots of info about South Africa, but even that is patchy. Here's a graph comparing excess to confirmed deaths in SA during the crisis:
(https://businesstech.co.za/news/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Graph-2.png)
https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/527774/over-260000-excess-deaths-reported-in-south-africa-since-lockdown-started/amp/
Outside of SA, apart from one or two well-equipped North African nations, confirmed COVID deaths will be even lower, and even the excess death rate will be more of an estimate due simply to higher numbers of undocumented people, etc. Was often same with famines, wars, and so on; how many actually died? Can only estimate.
"Tens of thousands" protesting in Vienna yesterday
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/thousands-some-from-far-right-groups-protest-in-vienna-against-covid-restrictions-1.4734474
Just throw in the 'far right' bollox with no follow up whatsoever. Just report the news ye gimps.
Squad car and a moped burnt out in Rotterdam. A few people were shot at by the cops, apparently.
The mayor called it an "Orgy of violence". Sounds like so much fun :laugh:
https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/11/several-injured-20-arrested-in-orgy-of-violence-in-rotterdam/
Is there a metal album called Orgy of Violence? I feel like there should be.
It used to be that stuff like the genocide in Rwanda was an orgy of violence. These days the bar is low enough to include mean words.
Well it is the Netherlands. Orgies ahoy for 50 euro! Fuck and suck!!!
Spicy
https://youtu.be/laO816tXI2c
Spicy indeed and he does seem to have been a soldier, if his videos can be believed.
Spicy? I'd say rich. Rich of an adult who obviously places themselves central to the anti-COVID vax movement in Ireland to claim concern for the well-being of children and the elderly. People like this cunt are actively responsible for wasting hospital hours, thousands and thousands of hospital hours. Shall we look again at the latest with the data of an extra week added?
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf
COVID infections in ICU since April 1st: Up to 589 in total now, made up of 63% unvaccinated, 37% at least one dose vaccinated, and 29% confirmed fully vaccinated (some overlap with former).
I'm only here for the drama. How many of the unvaccinated had underlying health issues?
Haha, the drama is mighty alright. But it's funny, tragically, pathetically funny, to see the same people who last year were claiming such concern over urgent hospital procedures being cancelled now saying nothing about all the unvaccinated using up hospital beds for weeks on end.
Look at all of these Far-right, alt-right anti-vax something somethings....
https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/tens-of-thousands-protest-against-belgiums-tighter-covid-rules-1217057.html
In more important news from Belgium: In the 18-64 age bracket, you're now 14 times more likely to end up in ICU in Belgium if you're not vaccinated:
https://www.levif.be/actualite/sante/covid-les-non-vaccines-surrepresentes-en-soins-intensifs/article-normal-1487759.html?cookie_check=1637581336
How is that? Not registering to read that.
It's the same basic maths every time, just the specific numbers change by country. A minority of adults who are not vaccinated taking up almost as many, as many, or more (this is where it varies country by country) ICU beds as the majority who are vaccinated.
It's the same as your chances of dying of lung cancer if you're a smoker: even if you smoke regularly, your chances of dying of lung cancer specifically are statistically low, around 1/1,000 or so. But if you don't smoke, your chances of dying of lung cancer are around 1/10,000. So, you're 10 times more likely to die of lung cancer if you smoke than if you don't, even though the chances remain statistically low for any particular individual, all other things being equal. COVID vaccine is exactly the same; for any given individual, the chances of ending up in ICU are low, but averaged across all western nations (i.e. where we have reliable data) they're around 10 times higher if you're not vaccinated.
Would you not just vaccinated to make your life easier, and hopefully put the kibosh on this shit sooner?
The tactics and bullshit are enough to drive anyone mental (not to mention the spurious far right shite), but just suck it up. Principles are grand until you are stopped at the airport or you have to wear a mask on the fucking treadmill.
If the figures are correct, it means that roughly 90% of the unvaccinated who end up in ICU are there unnecessarily. Do any of the cunts actively spreading misinformation think about their well-being?? No, of course not, because when it boils down to it the majority of them are really only thinking about themselves, regardless of what BS about children and the elderly they roll out to justify their madness.
What's worse is that hospitals are prioritising anti- vaxxers over people with illnesses out if their control. You'd really get more uptick of vaccinations if people where told they wouldn't be put in ICU over somebody who genuinely needs it.
It'd be nice to think so, but I'm not entirely convinced myself. People still not getting vaccinated seem to think they run zero risk of falling seriously ill, so there's very little wiggle room for reasoning with them. Still, I agree it would have been better if Austria had proposed a measure like that rather than lockdown. Objectively, I suppose the fact that they haven't reveals some level of remaining humanitarianism to the health system in the west, but at what cost? Ah, the eternal questions!
I don't suppose anyone here has a subscription to the Business Post to get the gist of what they're on about here in the rest of the article? I can only see the first couple of paragraphs:
https://www.businesspost.ie/coronavirus/acquired-immunity-among-unvaccinated-will-gradually-cause-drop-in-cases-nphet-advisor-says-2a4ddc31
I'd imagine there's a lot more to it than can be garnered from those snippets.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 22, 2021, 01:35:52 PMPeople still not getting vaccinated seem to think they run zero risk of falling seriously ill, so there's very little wiggle room for reasoning with them.
I know of at least 15 people who got covid and (apart from the loss of taste and smell) described it as a mild cold.
Those 15 people have an active lifestyle, swim in the ocean most days all year round and have good diets. No underlying conditions, maybe one of them had asthma.
If they've already had it and didn't end up in ICU, or anywhere near it, what's the point in forcing them to get the injection?
People like that aren't the main point. Bringing them up is diverting attention from the main point, i.e. those unvaccinated who, despite thinking they ran zero risk, are ending up in ICU and/or dead from COVID.
In Ireland can you get the health pass with proof of recent recovery from COVID? You can in France. I know some countries have said "vaccine no matter what", but the overbearing problem is still the unvaccinated who are at risk. Who exactly are they? Nobody, least of all themselves, can say for absolutely sure until and if they fall seriously ill. This last consideration is really key to grasp.
Yes you can get the cert based on recovery in Ireland. It lasts 6 months.
Quote from: Giggles on November 22, 2021, 02:11:22 PM
I know of at least 15 people who got covid and (apart from the loss of taste and smell) described it as a mild cold.
Those 15 people have an active lifestyle, swim in the ocean most days all year round and have good diets. No underlying conditions, maybe one of them had asthma.
If they've already had it and didn't end up in ICU, or anywhere near it, what's the point in forcing them to get the injection?
Read this earlier, written by a respiratory consultant for the NHS.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin?utm_source=instagram&utm_campaign=DrAnonletter
"But the story is different on our intensive care unit. Here, the patient population consists of a few vulnerable people with severe underlying health problems and a majority of fit, healthy, younger people unvaccinated by choice." How people don't understand this yet is beyond me. Just get the fucking shot.
I've explained that they've already had covid and were grand, why are you comparing them to people in ICU? Are you concerned that they may still end up in ICU?
I'm interested in seeing the report that states that the majority of those currently in ICU are young fit and healthy.
QuoteEven if you are not worried about your own risk from Covid, you cannot know the risk of the people into whose faces you may cough; there is a dangerous and selfish element to this that I find hard to stomach.
What the fuck is this even about? Are they suggesting that an unvaccinated person can spread covid but a vaccinated person can't? Because we all know that's not true.
I linked a report about a week ago that stated that a vaccinated person can carry
the same amount of viral load as an unvaccinated person.
Hopefully that anonymous doctor who wrote that article isn't the same NHS worker that was accused of lying about hospital admissions https://www.rt.com/uk/539687-nhs-covid-patients-fake-news/
Why be anonymous anyway? It's not as if they're saying anything controversial, they're just stating the facts right?
"Breakthrough infections."
Similar language as used in Dopesick.
I saw that NHS worker statement this morning and knew it wasn't going to be helpful, given how the positions are staked out.
As I tried to explain to you Giggles, given that in the elderly populations almost 100% of individuals are fully vaccinated in most European countries, so the unvaccinated ending up in ICU are pretty much necessarily younger. I showed you the Irish stats a page or two back, and these are repeated in every country in Europe. Here's data from the Netherlands spelling it out, but it's there to be read from the data for Ireland too:
https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/unvaccinated-covid-19-patients-in-hospital-nearly-20-years-younger-than-vaccinated-patients
Look at this graph from it here:
(https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files/2021-11/Fig%202_ZKHopnames_lft.png)
In the first three age groups, there are significantly more unvaccinated than vaccinated general hospital admissions. This only switches in the 70+ group, since in that group you have a vanishingly small number of unvaccinated (bear in mind that, hypothetically, if exactly 100% of a population was vaccinated then logically 100% of the hospital admissions from that age group would also be vaccinated, no matter how many or few of them there were, right?). So, even in the 12-29 group, you have significantly more unvaccinated ending up in hospital. This is even more marked in the 30-49 group. And underlying conditions don't matter, because these will be proportionately spread across both vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Nobody's saying this data is easy to understand. Or rather, no, people misinterpreting it are saying it's easy to understand but actually systematically getting it arse ways, just like the chief of the NHS got it arse ways... once.
And yeah, I spotted that too Matt, except I guessed that "breakthrough pain" was maybe inspired by "breakthrough infection", which is a term that has been used for a long, long time, going back to at least 1987:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22breakthrough+infection%22&size=50
You have explained it a few times and I still didn't get it, which is why I didn't respond the last two times. I'm not here to prove a point, because I've got no definitive point to prove. I'm just asking questions, so I'm not going to argue with something I don't fully understand.
But I do understand your angle, being pissed off at people who are taking up ICU beds because you feel that they have been misinformed.
I'm pissed off because myself and people I know who've already had covid, and who don't have the injection, are being treated as second class citizens, and are still somehow being viewed as "selfish super spreaders".
Those of you who say "just get the jab and get on with it" - when do you think this will end?
I've asked this question a few times already and to no response. Let's imagine everybody in the country gets the injection - then what? Keep wearing masks until when? Covid doesn't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon.
And where the fuck is Astfgyl? I hope he isn't in ICU :-X
Quote from: Giggles on November 22, 2021, 07:37:49 PM
And where the fuck is Astfgyl?
I was actually only wondering that this evening myself. I was enjoying a lot of the back and forth stuff he was contributing to on here a while back.
He said he was going to knock this Corona Virus codology on its head as his mind was starting to suffer with h it all.
He's no doubt had his fill of all this Libs he's picked this season and thought; "fuck the world".... :abbath:
Quote from: Giggles on November 22, 2021, 07:37:49 PM
Let's imagine everybody in the country gets the injection - then what? Keep wearing masks until when? Covid doesn't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon.
This an enormous moot point until it happens. And it doesn't look like it's likely to happen anytime soon, if ever, due to rampant misinformation. Bigmac posted an article above there which is coming back with the herd immunity thing, maybe that will become reality.
But I do agree that a worrying amount of people have become all too comfortable with the idea of a perpetually masked society, something that doesn't sit well with me at all. My mask is off at the slightest opportunity I find and on at the very last second it has to be. It's funny though, couple of years ago the hottest "big brother is watching you" narrative involved CCTV cameras in the streets being used for facial recognition tracking of citizens' movements. Governments have properly shot themselves in the foot with the masks if they were behind that idea!
I was in Montenegro in August, not a mask to be seen anywhere except by the resort staff where I was staying. The guests? Not a fuckin' hope. Came in via Croatia and they were all EU pole up the hole about it.
A reluctant yes to vaccinations, a non-colonised-by-the-EU-parts of the balkans attitude towards masks.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 22, 2021, 08:21:00 PM
Bigmac posted an article above there which is coming back with the herd immunity thing, maybe that will become reality.
Were you able to read the whole thing? I just wasn't arsed paying for the subscription, and couldn't find similar comments anywhere else.
Interesting article here tying back to a CSO report released last Friday:
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/1122/1262461-unvaccinated-hse-hospital-admissions/
So median age for vaccinated in ICU is 61, while it's 52 for unvaccinated. Also, 33% of the unvaccinated had no underlying conditions, while 3% of the vaccinated had no underlying conditions . And it's mostly people born abroad that make up the unvaccinated figures.
I must check out the actual CSO release...
Don't let the Irish off the hook too quickly; it's half the unvaccinated in ICU that were born abroad. Good to see this analysis has finally been done though, in Ireland at least. I've been trying to find something similar for a couple of weeks, thanks for the share man.
Quote from: Snare on November 22, 2021, 11:37:51 PM
I must check out the actual CSO release...
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries36/
Quote from: Snare on November 22, 2021, 11:37:51 PM
Interesting article here tying back to a CSO report released last Friday:
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/1122/1262461-unvaccinated-hse-hospital-admissions/
That article is gas, trying to explain that the foreigners are causing problems, but desperately trying not to appear to be racist about it.
No talks about them being selfish, rather "oh look at those poor foreigners with their shit english, listening to their anti-vax propaganda from their home countries. Bless them".
Now that's an ad hominem.
What do you make of the actual data analysis, since it's exactly what you've been looking for for the last couple of weeks??
Quote from: Giggles on November 23, 2021, 09:12:31 AM
Quote from: Snare on November 22, 2021, 11:37:51 PM
Interesting article here tying back to a CSO report released last Friday:
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/1122/1262461-unvaccinated-hse-hospital-admissions/
That article is gas, trying to explain that the foreigners are causing problems, but desperately trying not to appear to be racist about it.
No talks about them being selfish, rather "oh look at those poor foreigners with their shit english, listening to their anti-vax propaganda from their home countries. Bless them".
That's what you took from that whole report? Good man.
Quote from: Nazgûl on November 23, 2021, 10:35:47 AM
That's what you took from that whole report? Good man.
Forgive me Mr. Sneer, but in between the late hour that this report was posted and in my hastening to get to college this morning, I've not properly digested the presented information. I thought I'd take a quick crack at RTE in the meantime. I promise I'll provide a more thoughtful response in the near future. Good man.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 23, 2021, 09:26:06 AM
What do you make of the actual data analysis, since it's exactly what you've been looking for for the last couple of weeks??
At a glance, it appears that you were right and I was wrong.
I'll have to read back a couple of pages on exactly what I've said and what questions I was asking, because I honestly can't remember them all. The last two weeks of college have been a whirlwind of stress and I keep telling myself to stay away from covid news, but since there are a lot changes at the moment, and there is constantly new data, which leads to more questions, I keep coming back, even though knowing - as you famously stated yourself about 10 years ago - the time would be better spent elsewhere.
Aye, you do have to look after yourself alright! And I'll admit it myself, COVID is the perfect distraction from other stressers in life, because it is a never-ending stream of new info, but those other things will just be waiting for you all the more urgently in behind.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 23, 2021, 12:02:06 AM
Don't let the Irish off the hook too quickly; it's half the unvaccinated in ICU that were born abroad. Good to see this analysis has finally been done though, in Ireland at least. I've been trying to find something similar for a couple of weeks, thanks for the share man.
Sorry I could have been clearer. That was my reading based on percentage of people born in Ireland v born abroad relatively speaking, i.e 87-13 yet 50-50 in ICU. The disconnect wasn't something I really thought of before the way people tend to listen to news and family from back home, so missing out on local announcements. Interesting to see they have translated into so many languages, but yet it's a pain trying to bridge the gap for targetting.
Nice one for the CSO link Giggles. Bedtime reading for me perhaps 🙂 Ha, Snare and Mr. Sneer aka Nazgul to add to your confusing college whirlwind 😆
Paul Reid is an Irish public servant, Director-General of the Health Service Executive
https://www.facebook.com/100001435411509/posts/4689361951121606/?sfnsn=mo
Not a bad number if you can get it...
But seriously, I'd love to see the true number of people who have died of, well stuff, as opposed to their beloved Covid numbers.
A shitshow from top to bottom. I don't care what anyone says, it's a fucking cull and a huge exercise in population control.
Not too much mentioned in the beloved MSN about Sergio Aguero and all the other footballers and athletes that are dropping like flies on pitches and fields. Huh? Huh?
I saw a list a couple of weeks ago in a German news article of about 70 so far around Europe.
These are (or were) fit and healthy athletes. Looks like Aguero is going to have to retire from football.
Watch for myocarditis becoming a thing now for kids...
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattletiss7/status/1463293327030247426?t=Y935-TKjnazfgRCY4ZdCrA&s=19
I saw that article, it doesn't even mention how many athletes had the vaccine, or if any previously had covid which can cause long term heart issues. So basically a load of bollocks
I also saw a news report shared in twitter about how Argentina had stopped a vaccine rollout over fears of deep vein thrombosis. Problem was the report was in Spanish and had absolutely nothing to do with vaccines, and yet people were absolutely lapping it up
I know, you are right. Athletes dropping like flies has always been a 'thing'....
:abbath:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 24, 2021, 07:57:08 AM
I know, you are right. Athletes dropping like flies has always been a 'thing'....
Yeah, their salaries have been getting out of control so the virus, or the vaccine, was created to curb their numbers and keep wages in check. Is it just a coincidence Aguero got heart problems so soon after Barcelona announced they were financially crippled?
Quote from: Trev on November 24, 2021, 08:16:33 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 24, 2021, 07:57:08 AM
I know, you are right. Athletes dropping like flies has always been a 'thing'....
Yeah, their salaries have been getting out of control so the virus, or the vaccine, was created to curb their numbers and keep wages in check. Is it just a coincidence Aguero got heart problems so soon after Barcelona announced they were financially crippled?
G'way, will ya... :laugh:
Robert F. Kennedy Jr....
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/11/rfk-jr-drops-covid-vaccine-bomb-says-jab-is-killing-more-people-than-all-vaccines-combined/
Alex Berenson. Former NYT writer...
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adults-under-60
40 Places Where Covid Shots Have Failed To Stop The Spread
24 countries and 16 states where cases reached new all-time highs after vaccination roll outs.
https://kanekoa.substack.com/p/40-places-where-covid-shots-have
Unsurprisingly, every single thing you've just posted is scutter.
Not going to go through all of them, just one obvious one and one for which I saw a funny debunk yesterday, although I doubt you'll understand it.
First, athletes dropping dead. Everyone knows about this and has done for a long time, here's a review from 2014:
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/15/1185.long
QuoteSudden cardiac death (SCD) is the leading medical cause of death in athletes
Next!
The "I have absolutely no clue how statistics work" twice as many vaccinated dying thing using the preposterous age range of 10-59 (i.e. an age range so absolutely arbitrary, it's guaranteed it was chosen only because it happens to throw up this convenient data artefact). Look what else you can do with the same age range and real data:
https://twitter.com/jsm2334/status/1463232529327132680
QuoteRecent data show death rate of 10-59yr olds who have watched the 1984 Ghostbuster Movie is 2x higher than those who have watched the 2021 Ghostbuster movie.
I don't know how to explain this other than movie-caused mortality.
You can read that twitter thread as a blog post here:
https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/is-watching-the-1984-ghostbusters-movie-killing-people-a-statistician-s-perspective
And just to be clear, when I say I doubt you'll understand it, I don't mean I think you're not capable of understanding it; I mean that you are so wantonly biased on this and other "hot" topics, you will not allow yourself to understand it.
Unfortunately, you won't find the likes of this up on the heavily Covid censored Google and the likes...
https://rumble.com/vppr0l-sos.html
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 24, 2021, 11:26:52 AM
Unfortunately, you won't find the likes of this up on the heavily Covid censored Google and the likes...
https://rumble.com/vppr0l-sos.html
Kurt Cocaine, resident champion of indigenous peoples' rights. You really are the absolute worst, utterly devoid of moral scruples.
One trait of the right in America I dislike is the disdain and mockery of Indians. They weren't all dream catcher weavers (some of their behaviour in the French and Indian war was beyond gruesome) but there is no doubt that pre-Colombian inhabitants of the Americas got it extremely tight.
'Yeah but we gave them the casinos to make up for that'
CRINGE
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 24, 2021, 11:57:08 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 24, 2021, 11:26:52 AM
Unfortunately, you won't find the likes of this up on the heavily Covid censored Google and the likes...
https://rumble.com/vppr0l-sos.html
Kurt Cocaine, resident champion of indigenous peoples' rights. You really are the absolute worst, utterly devoid of moral scruples.
Recognition at last... :)
If you had bothered to actually look at the video, you would have heard out lad say he's of Irish and Scottish stock. A true Celtic Warrior... :abbath:
I did look at the video, that's how I know the people in it are primarily indigenous folk. But in contrast to you, I sympathize with the deep roots of why indigenous Australasians would be profoundly mistrustful of western culture, whereas if those people weren't talking about coronavirus stuff, you would be most likely mocking them for complaining, and everyone on the board knows it.
Footballer John Fleck down now...
https://youtu.be/sJDj5a4MV2s
My neighbour fell off a horse last weekend, totally messed up his lower lip and chin. He's vaccinated too... omg!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 25, 2021, 11:36:14 AM
Footballer John Fleck down now...
https://youtu.be/sJDj5a4MV2s
Just two months after Sheffield Utd had to take out a loan to cover cashflow problems, join the dots, it's so clearly a massive football wide conspiracy to reduce wages
Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers got Covid, after spending the last few months telling everyone he had been immunized, when he hadn't, them started rambling about science when asked why hadn't. Missed a game, and got fined 14k by the NFL for breaching their Covid protocols (unvaccinated players are supposed to wear masks on the sidelines or doing interviews), by way of contrast CeeDee Lamb of the Cowboys was fined 20k the same day. For not tucking his shirt in during a game.
Gets better, Joe Flacco, third string QB of the Jets, unvaccinated, admitted it at the start, said his reasons were personal and left it at that. The guy he was backing up, Mike White? Vaccinated.
Couple of days ago, White tested positive, is out of the game this weekend, Flacco is out too, as he's been classed as a close contact, yet has tested negative.
And now we have people blaming Flacco for White's positive test.
It really was only a matter of time before uninfected unvaccinated people started getting blamed for somehow spreading it, wasn't it?
Well since pretty much every conjugation of absolutely mental explanations has been covered, I guess yeah it really was only a matter of time before pretty much any absolutely mental explanation anybody could imagine would be pronounced by someone.
Time to break out those double booster vaccine vials boiz....
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/193662/belgiums-most-vaccinated-province-also-has-highest-number-of-covid-cases/
Let's aim for freedom in 2028, yeah? :laugh:
Quote from: Trev on November 25, 2021, 12:56:14 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 25, 2021, 11:36:14 AM
Footballer John Fleck down now...
https://youtu.be/sJDj5a4MV2s
Just two months after Sheffield Utd had to take out a loan to cover cashflow problems, join the dots, it's so clearly a massive football wide conspiracy to reduce wages
Sherrif Tiraspol player Adama Traore went down last night too...
https://extra.ie/2021/11/25/sport/soccernews/player-collapses-real-madrid
108 FIFA registered players and officials have dropped in the last 6 months.
That's a lot of dots to join.... A lot!
Ha, funny name: same as the French George Floyd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adama_Traor%C3%A9
Here's the first few posts on a football forum about these players collapsing.
It's worrying how all this has been shushed away by the media....
The Heart of Football
There seem to be increasing numbers of footballers (and other sportspeople) collapsing in training or during games with heart problems. Christian Eriksen and Sergio Aguero the most high profile so far.
The last stat I saw was 108 dead this year, from 183 collapses.
This week alone John Fleck of Sheff Utd and Adama Traore (no, the other one)
I'm surprised there is not more coverage of this.
And the fact that Trevor Sinclair just got shut down on air for asking questions isn't a good look.
Steveo said:
Today 01:55 PM
If they are indeed linked to the vaccines (and I am not saying that they are and I am double jabbed), you can be sure that they will be given no coverage
Taksin said:
Today 2.04pm
It's very strange that there isn't more coverage of this. And the censorship would be considered evil for almost any other equivalent situation. I didn't see Sinclair being shut down but we all know how the pattern plays itself out by now.
Internet searches inquiring as to whether Eriksen was vaccinated all claim he wasn't but we have got to the stage where I don't trust that information anymore. In most of these cases they will have been vaccinated.
We know that myocarditis in young men is a common side effect of the vaccines and there has been an attempt to play it down for reasons that I do not consider to be respectable. We deserve to know what is happening and to be allowed to weigh up the risks ourselves.
As professional footballers are very low risk from Covid, they are being forced to take the vaccine to protect others, not themselves. And as their hearts are under greater strain than anyone else, they should have special dispensation from that pressure given what we know. But what we know and what we want to think are two different things.
Seeing as the vaccines do not stop the spread, the pressure to protect others is in fact a scandal. Especially as big Pharma are at the centre of this. Why is everyone so accepting of this corruption
Taksin said:
Today 02:09 PM
There's a viral video going round that covers all these deaths and it isn't just happening in football. The numbers are very high compared to normal.
The video is banned so I can't share it on here
Daffydd said:
Today 02:12 PM
So far I've seen footage of hockey, basketball, tennis, cricket, rugby as well as football. Not just players but coaches and referees. I'm not saying it's the vaccine but Something is going on.
The silence is as worrying as the problem
Remember the coverage of Fabrice Muamba? He got more coverage on his own than all these athletes put together
That's just the first few posts. There's pages of it...
Worrying.....
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 25, 2021, 06:03:46 PM
Ha, funny name: same as the French George Floyd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adama_Traor%C3%A9
Did he die of Covid too?
Sudden cardiac death is a thing among athletes man. Just because a load of paranoid people have only just started paying attention to it now, doesn't mean it's new and therefore related to anything. I already gave you one paper from 2014 stating it was the number one medical cause of death in athletes. Here's a more recent one reviewing the last couple of decades of literature:
QuoteA retrospective forensic study developed in Spain evaluated the epidemiological data of 645 SCD victims, 1 to 35 years old, from 2010 to 2017. In this cohort, 75 (11.6%) of the events were exercise-related. Myocardial disease was diagnosed in 33 patients, arrhythmogenic cardiomyopathy being the leading cause (37%), followed by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (24%) and myocarditis (15%). Only five had a previous cardiomyopathy diagnosis, and 85% were practicing recreational sports [4].
In Italy, Corrado et al. evaluated a 26-year trend in SCD in athletes (12 to 35 years old), and observed an incidence of 1.9/100,000 person-years [5].
An epidemiological study in high school athletes from Minnesota state, USA, over 12 years found three SCD events, an incidence of 1:500,000 competitive sports participants. Over a 3-year high school career for a student-athlete, the estimated risk was 1:72,500 [6].
In Israel, a study led by Steinvil et al. searched for SCD in athletes in the two main newspapers from 1985 to 2009. Using data from the Israel Sports Authority as the denominator, the calculated incidence of SCD in this context was 2.6/100,000 athlete-years [7].
A study from Sweden evaluated all SCDs in 10- to 35-year-old individuals from 2000–2010, retrieving information from medical records, death certificates, and autopsy data. In the 10-year period, 514 SCDs events were observed, 62 (12%) being considered exercise-related. Of those individuals, 21 were considered athletes and 41 non-athletes. The leading causes were primary arrhythmic heart diseases, followed by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Unfortunately, in this study, no denominator was estimated, so it did not provide us an incidence [8].
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7918885/
If you're interested in learning about it, get off forums.
And no, Adama Traoré didn't die of COVID. He died in 2016 of police custody.
Let me say this again, to counteract your broad scope there....
108 FIFA registered players/officials (referees, linesmen, etc.) in the last 6 months.
That a lot, and I mean a lot, to be just a coincidence.
Those who follow football here will be familiar with the odd player collapsing over years. But this is getting huge....
Here's another from this week...
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/25/wigan-athletic-charlie-wyke-stable-in-hospital-after-training-collapse
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 25, 2021, 06:48:32 PM
Let me say this again, to counteract your broad scope there....
108 FIFA registered players/officials (referees, linesmen, etc.) in the last 6 months.
That a lot, and I mean a lot, to be just a coincidence.
Yeah, it is a lot, and of course it has to be monitored. But it's less of a lot as soon as you compare it to what was already known before. Sticking to FIFA, but players only:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33361135/
Quote[From 2014 to 2018, a] total of 617 players (mean age 34±16 years, 96% men) with sudden death were reported from 67 countries
That averages out at 77 players (only players!) per 6 month period.
Expect this new southern African variant to take over all coronavirus news as rapidly in the next couple of days as they're saying it's taken over the other variants in SA. UK and Israel already suspended incoming flights.
Dum de Dum.... nothing to see here folks. Everything is juuuuuust fine-e...oh....
That's obviously partial, even for the numbers you were quoting for the last 6 months. You're not even trying man, just amplifying echoes. I just showed you real, official data from FIFA, no response??
Why are doctors and other health professionals all around the world coming out and speaking up against this bullshit and calling for people not to get the vacancies? Of course you'll not see their videos on Google, wonder why?
The PCR test is an absolute scam, but the authorities & media are let away with using this useless data as a means of controlling and locking down whole nations.
Waterford has been almost 100% vaccinated, yet has the highest amount of Covid cases in the country. This has been largely ignored by the media.
If you's want the truth, don't bother with MSN or Google, etc...
I don't think he reads your posts Chris.
And then you have shit for brains like Ben Scallon....
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ben_Scallan/status/1463921393632960520?s=20
The SA variant is brought about by the vaccines. All the 'variants' have been.
Do try to keep up chaps and chapesses....
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 26, 2021, 07:00:41 AM
Do try to keep up chaps and chapesses....
We're wiping the scutter you're throwing at us out of our eyes as fast as we possibly can! Now, how does this all tie in to the earth being flat??
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 25, 2021, 11:26:46 PM
Expect this new southern African variant to take over all coronavirus news as rapidly in the next couple of days as they're saying it's taken over the other variants in SA. UK and Israel already suspended incoming flights.
Is that cos of low vaccine rates there?
Quote from: Emphyrio on November 26, 2021, 07:45:11 AM
Is that cos of low vaccine rates there?
Certainly a contender explanation. This video here from the folk at Nature is a good explainer on variants. Doesn't cover the latest one, cos it's 7 months old, but everything it says still applies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8UEZ9cfgz4
Aside from low vaccine rates, unfortunately, due in large part to a tragic history of virus science denial by previous SA governments, HIV is still more prevalent there than in any other country on earth. In terms of a pandemic, that translates as many times more immuno-compromised individuals in the population, and they also are a breeding ground for mutations (also mentioned in the video there). In terms of vaccines, what
can drive mutation replication is partial vaccination, i.e. people with only one dose, of which there are many in Guateng. The science behind this is nothing new either; it's similar to why you're always told to completely finish a programme of antibiotics so that the bacteria you're fighting don't get the chance to survive and potentially mutate to be resistant to that antibiotic.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 26, 2021, 05:54:43 AM
Dum de Dum.... nothing to see here folks. Everything is juuuuuust fine-e...oh....
Half of the data in that screenshot has been removed. Less sudden deaths during play in 2020 prob due to less matches played, at least in part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing
14 deaths during play in 2021 is worrying, but not because of COVID vaccine. One of those 14 was 54 years of age. Another was 15, so quite possibly not vaccinated. Another was due to trauma from a collision with another player. That brings down to 11 those which could be contenders for being related to the vaccine (though the actual chances of this are infinitesimal). How does that compare to previous years?
12 deaths during play in 2016, all except one sudden collapses, suspected cardiac cause. And the other one? Struck by lightning during training. Yikes.
10 deaths during play in 2017, 10 deaths during play in 2015, 10 deaths during play in 2013. The vast majority of ALL these deaths, cardiac or suspected cardiac. Long before COVID was ever a thing.
So, what's the real problem here? A vaccine? Or a long history of insufficient monitoring of heart conditions by football associations??
Quote from: Caomhaoin on November 26, 2021, 06:49:11 AM
I don't think he reads your posts Chris.
No, but the genuine data required to show that what he's spreading here is horseshit is useful to me for elsewhere, and possibly to other people too. Plus, he's simultaneously a fascinating subject for confirmation bias!
They want our children....
https://youtu.be/u11I8Jh-CsM
"Ideally they'd like to put a quantum tattoo so that they can remotely medicate you"
I'll be turning off this very obviously fundamentalist Christian inspired nonsense right here. I got enough of this when I was surrounded by born again Christians in the early 90s.
First, they're called "quantum dot tattoos." We use quantum dots in neuroscience as markers for tracing proteins. In layman's terms it's basically invisible ink. It doesn't allow you to do anything whatsoever "remotely." The idea of "quantum dot tattoos" and vaccines is to leave an invisible to the naked eye record of what vaccines have been administered, especially in underdeveloped nations where documentation is unreliable.
Funny to see a heathen metaller's refusal to accept the facts make him fall prey to re-worked, second-coming of Christ bullshit!
We now live in an age where we have to rely on whistle-blowers to receive the truth....
https://youtu.be/gJ8t0qQ5R4I
Strokes and heart problems are the new norm folks.
But exercise may or may not be the problem...
They'll be blaming global warming next... oh wait!
Here's your daily 'dose' from truth mongers RTÉ..
https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1248005/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 26, 2021, 10:24:43 AM
We now live in an age where we have to rely on whistle-blowers to receive the truth....
https://youtu.be/gJ8t0qQ5R4I
The published paper he refers to there is by Dr. Steven Gundry... a contributor to Gwyneth Paltrow's "this candle smells like my fanny" website Goop!
Keep 'em coming KC! I'm sure there's more down there...
(https://forum.metalwarfare.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-_UbPxWTQI8s%2FVbTOoeHZmTI%2FAAAAAAAAAp4%2FspXxhGV4deY%2Fs1600%2Ftiolet1.png&hash=95beb095785e338701e4d5ff03cd4d731de81f80)
You are christianophobic.
Nonsense. Some of my best friends are Christ.
.....
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 26, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Nonsense. Some of my best friends are Christ.
That's actually good (for you) :laugh:
This is a Telegram channel collecting stories of athletes collapsing from cardiac arrest...
https://t.me/s/CardiacArrestSports
And another from goodsciencing.com
https://goodsciencing.com/covid/71-athletes-suffer-cardiac-arrest-26-die-after-covid-shot/
In March 2021, Israel first reported a "murky wave of heart attacks" and an increase in post-vaccination all-cause mortality. In June, the Israeli Ministry of Health confirmed that covid mRNA vaccines may cause heart inflammation (myocarditis) and heart attacks, especially in young people. In September, a US study showed that in healthy male adolescents the risk of post-vaccination myocarditis is about five times higher than the risk of covid hospitalization.
In young males, the risk of post-vacccination myocarditis may reach up to 1 in 1000 (including subclinical cases). In October, several Nordic countries partially or fully halted the use of the high-dosed Moderna mRNA vaccine due to the elevated risk of myocarditis.
Post-vaccination myocarditis may also affect athletes and may lead to sudden cardiac arrest. For instance, the cardiac arrest of Danish soccer player Christian Eriksen in June 2021 may have been due to vaccination (Eriksen and his physicians refused to disclose his vaccination status). In the meantime, dozens of other young athletes collapsed shortly after vaccination.
What's does Varg think of all this...
Let's find out....
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on November 27, 2021, 12:11:00 PM
This is a Telegram channel collecting stories of athletes collapsing from cardiac arrest...
https://t.me/s/CardiacArrestSports
Weird that the first story I click into from it is not related to collapsing during play, or collapsing at all. No cause of death is given apart from, "taken ill":
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/breaking-leon-taylor-dead-tributes-25545061
So, this is just a collection of stories of athletes dying, is it? Gonna get pretty long pretty quickly; people die all the time!
Dum-de-Dum....
https://mobile.twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1463991087786250243?t=PXBkFJX-SkkBGcNjiVgK8w&s=08
500% increase in FIFA registered deaths this year..
500%........
https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/frontlinenews/500-increase-in-sudden-cardiac-and-unexplained-deaths-among-fifa-athletes-in-2021/
I've already shown you that that is false, using data collated directly from FIFA by actual scientists, not scraped off Wikipedia by tabloid journalists. The methodology they describe there is an absolute joke:
QuoteTo find out how many deaths actually occurred during the last two decades among FIFA players (2001-2020), they used Wikipedia – "List of association footballers who died while playing". To know how many cases occurred in 2021, they used the list collected by Real-Time News that includes the cases noted in Wikipedia for 2021.
"An article published in the British Medical Journal shows that the risk of SCD is one in 50,000, with a range from one in 30,000 to one in 80,000. According to FIFA data, in 2000 there were 242,000 athletes registered in the association, and in 2006 there were 265,000 athletes registered. Assuming FIFA has not changed significantly in twenty years, we can expect about 5 deaths a year."
Keep away from numbers KC, you're going to hurt yourself.
The case of Russia fascinates me in all of this.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/why-russia-hasnt-cracked-down-on-covid-19
They're getting battered by COVID deaths at the moment; 1200 a day, officially, the highest it's ever been there. Is this figure still being kept low? For whose benefit? Only the international community? Because if they wanted to encourage more Russians to get vaccinated, their interest would, if anything, be in amplifying not diminishing the count. Mad. Seems to totally confound any of the conspiracy theories I've encountered. In fact, to the extent that I'd be curious to see one that actually attempts to include them.
For the greater good....
https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/the-vaccine-moment-part-one?r=167sc&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 28, 2021, 11:47:33 AM
Keep away from numbers KC, you're going to hurt yourself.
This may be the only time I ever agree with you. Enjoy it.
Wish they called the Omicron variation Unicron instead, being an old school transformer fan it would be a cool way to die!
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on November 29, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Wish they called the Omicron variation Unicron instead, being an old school transformer fan it would be a cool way to die!
That would be Moronic... :abbath:
No anagram to see here volks.... :abbath:
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on November 29, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Wish they called the Omicron variation Unicron instead, being an old school transformer fan it would be a cool way to die!
Every time I read the word "Omicron" I think of this;
(https://www.chargrilled.co.uk/t-shirts/prodimages/staticimages/square/n0omniconsumerproductsrobocop_n_Grey.jpg)
Quote from: StoutAndAle on November 30, 2021, 09:40:14 AM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on November 29, 2021, 10:34:39 PM
Wish they called the Omicron variation Unicron instead, being an old school transformer fan it would be a cool way to die!
Haha! Yeah. Every time I read the word "Omicron" I think of this;
(https://www.chargrilled.co.uk/t-shirts/prodimages/staticimages/square/n0omniconsumerproductsrobocop_n_Grey.jpg)
Interesting take on the 'new' Covid Moronic variant...
HAPPENING: OMICRON is Lab made!
Omicron has mutations that don't make evolutionary sense.
>"The way I read this 'family tree' it's like someone reached all the way back to April 2020, plucked out an existing variant (having only the D614G mutation in common with every other clade & variant) and then somehow, magically, all by itself, came up with not one, not two, not 'a few,' but twenty new mutations never before seen in any other variant of concern."
Link
Was this variant created and released in order to reignite the pandemic?
Link: https://www.peakprosperity.com/decoding-omicron/
'Omicron has mutations that don't make evolutionary sense' says snake oil selling economist Chris Martenson.
"Enroll for trusted guidance in these uncertain times" for only $300 a year, in return for which you'll get more unqualified opinions than you'll ever know what to do with!
https://www.peakprosperity.com/enroll/
Bargain if you ask me...
...
Oh ffs, the South African scariant has already hit Ireland. In, you guessed it.... Waterford...
Well at least you finally figured out how to downsize a fucking picture.
Quote from: Ollkiller on November 30, 2021, 02:04:30 PM
Well at least you finally figured out how to downsize a fucking picture.
::)
I'd say that one was a fluke
Quote from: Ollkiller on November 30, 2021, 02:04:30 PM
Well at least you finally figured out how to downsize a fucking picture.
There's an app for that boss... ;D
Now, only if there was an app to downsize egos... 8)
Dr. T says two more weeks lads....
Just two more weeks....
Two more weeks....
More weeks....
Weeks....
https://mobile.twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1465746019954659328
Just two (promise)....
That bullshit media doctor you posted a video of talking on bullshit GBNews and referring to a "paper" by bullshit doctor Steven Gundry who runs a bullshit wellness food webstore and contributes to bullshit Gwyneth Paltrow's bullshit wellness website Goop, well, you won't believe this... but it's bullshit! There is no such paper. There is only the abstract of a poster, full of typographical errors, not peer reviewed, and none of the data is available for scrutiny. Quelle surprise !
Edit: link to "expression of concern" statement from the journal who (foolishly) published it:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/CIR.0000000000001051
Child abuse 101....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/healthandwellbeing/arid-40756788.html
Child abuse, advanced:
Quote"There's no doubt in my mind that this is a spiritual attack from the enemy," Lamb's son, Jonathan, said of his father's illness on a program earlier this month, the outlet reported. "As much as my parents have gone on here to kind of inform everyone about everything going on to the pandemic and some of the ways to treat COVID — there's no doubt that the enemy [i.e. Satan] is not happy about that. And he's doing everything he can to take down my dad."
Lamb and Daystar have been known to promote anti-vaccination views. The network's programs have featured vaccine skeptics and health care professionals who promote alternative COVID-19 treatments, Religion News Service reported.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021/11/30/marcus-lamb-founder-of-dallas-area-christian-tv-network-daystar-dies-at-64/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 01, 2021, 02:53:24 PM
Child abuse 101....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/healthandwellbeing/arid-40756788.html
Ah lad give it up.
Another cardiac arrest in the crowd this evening in Chelsea game. Getting to big to keep ignoring surely.
Another victim of climate change. Or not exercising enough. Or exercising too much. Or had his/her mask on incorrectly. Or didn't get the 2nd booster jab in time. Etc......
Oh, so we started by going beyond players to include refs and linesmen, nice little amplification of the stats that way, and now we're involving the crowd too? So literally a thousands-fold amplification. What next? All the people watching at home or in a bar? People in the vicinity of the stadium at the time?
Here, check it out and share it with the rest of your mush-for-brains friends:
Quote- Heart and circulatory diseases cause a quarter of all deaths in the UK, that's more than 160,000 deaths each year – an average of 460 deaths each day or one every three minutes in the UK.
- In the UK there are more than 100,000 hospital admissions each year due to heart attacks: that's one every five minutes.
- Strokes cause around 34,000 deaths in the UK each year and are the biggest cause of severe disability in this country.
- There are more than 30,000 out-of-hospital cardiac arrests in the UK each year, with a survival rate of less than 1 in 10.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/contact-the-press-office/facts-and-figures
And you want the real kicker?? Those figures, that's less than HALF of what it was 50 years ago.
Pull yourself all the rest of the way down that toilet and stay there. You've turned yourself into literally the worst spammer this board or MI has ever known.
Recurring theme much...?
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59499149
Ah Jaysus.... it's never-ending....
A lad from Kilkenny was found under near cardiac arrest on his Madrid apartment floor when agent Rafa foiled his €1500 accumulator from fruition for his future weekend shenanigans with Benny Hill and the boiz... :laugh:
KC, you're a blinkered cretin beyond compare. So anyone at all with a cardiac condition, without knowing sweet feck all about them, well yeah it just has to be down to a vaccine because everyone knows a game was never held up before for a medical emergency in the stands. Really?? Pathetic.
Colleague's buddy just passed away at 48 from Covid 19 - no underlying conditions, no vaccine, but ended up in ICU and the graveyard. Also discovered that my former lecturer (colleague of my uncle) died from Covid 19 after 2 weeks in ICU. He was a well fit and lean 74 year old and didn't look a day over 60 and didn't believe in the vaccine but it got him, not a heart attack. But yeah sure it's all a scam by "them" / "the jews" and they no doubt put them into ICU and the grave to teach them a lesson for not conforming.
And so you as a guy that makes "jokes" about rape survivors killing themselves instead of being murdered is now worried about kids being "abused" for wearing masks in school?? I asked my 10 year old kids today how they got on and guess what? Not a bother on them. But maybe you should get on to Tusla because you know better obviously coming from whatever planet you're living on.
Maybe come off the mushies and the net and stop posting utter scutter repeatedly. But unfortunately I'm sure you'll just carry on showing yourself up and ignoring how you and your sources are being constantly discredited that you just conveniently skip over to continue posting more outlandish nonsense.
More restrictions now as predicted. With every new scary variant we will be locked down and restricted. What a shitshow.
Can't wait for yet another stick up the nose to come home for Christmas. If they even let me in to the gaff. Who knows at this stage.
As a friend of mine put it "it's a lockdown, without calling it a lockdown. Selfish I know, the only thing I'm pissed about at the moment is the damn Marduk gig.
At this stage what is the point in looking forward to anything. 2 years of everyone's lives gone with more to go.
Ya, can't help but feel very disheartened by it all at this stage.
More fuckin nonsense.
Again the main driver for these bizarre restrictions is because they are unable to increase hospital capacity (in a fking pandemic! means they never will) and unable to do anything about classroom sizes (most overcrowded in the EU) or ventilation. It's rampant in schools yet hospitality gets shut? NPHET saying it's to send a message. By far one of the worst governments in my lifetime.
The more you bend the further (((They))) shove!
They're not unable to increase hospitaly capacity, they're just unwilling. The country has hundreds of unoccupied private beds that have been available for years, beds they've already paid for. Nationalise them, problem solved. But, as we don't have a functioning government it'll never happen.
Quote from: Carnage on December 04, 2021, 01:35:46 AM
They're not unable to increase hospitaly capacity, they're just unwilling. The country has hundreds of unoccupied private beds that have been available for years, beds they've already paid for. Nationalise them, problem solved. But, as we don't have a functioning government it'll never happen.
They could add thousands of extra beds, but without the staff to go with them it's pointless. Successive governments have fucked over nurses for long enough that there's less and less going into the profession each year, and the ones that do end up emigrating
Spare a thought for Spanish nurses, horrific working conditions for a western country. The Mrs started out as a nurse before joining the evil Servier, a french pharmaceutical crowd for 10 times the money and a million times fewer morals. She's happy enough with the divil money.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 03, 2021, 11:59:32 PM
The more you bend the further (((They))) shove!
Do you think we're retarded and don't know what ((())) signifies down the toilet? Or is your secret wish actually to be banned permanently? Or do you have an acute case of OCD? All three possible, knowing you!
Be funny if he got banned for giving the jews guff all the same.
https://www.facebook.com/Crumlinshopingcentre/posts/1874444536089595
:laugh:
QuoteThe primary public health goal of the acute stage of the pandemic is to reduce deaths and severe disease and to protect the health systems. In this context of ongoing global supply constraints, broad-based administration of booster doses risks exacerbating inequities in vaccine access. The vast majority of current infection are the results of infections in non-vaccinated people, who we believe should be vaccinated instead of giving further doses to those that have already received the full immune system.
World Health Organization opposing, in the clearest terms possible, booster dose mandates in developed nations.
Very early but so far the data coming out about Omicron is promising. Spreads faster than delta but much milder. We could have a Spanish flu scenario ->
QuoteBy 1920, the virus that caused the pandemic became much less deadly and caused only ordinary seasonal flu.
The full extent may be not known until after Christmas but fingers crossed we might get a final wave.
Something hopeful anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 09, 2021, 11:26:10 AM
QuoteThe primary public health goal of the acute stage of the pandemic is to reduce deaths and severe disease and to protect the health systems. In this context of ongoing global supply constraints, broad-based administration of booster doses risks exacerbating inequities in vaccine access. The vast majority of current infection are the results of infections in non-vaccinated people, who we believe should be vaccinated instead of giving further doses to those that have already received the full immune system.
World Health Organization opposing, in the clearest terms possible, booster dose mandates in developed nations.
I'd encourage anyone who feels so inclined to send this WHO messaging to their local government representative and demand that they at least engage with it in view of relaxing COVID pass booster mandates, or rather - in the case of Ireland - not introducing them.
I see Varadkar's already pushing the fourth/booster shot. At what point, I wonder, will we start having to pay for them...?
What if he closest thing to a local government rep is a SF councillor? What's the point if they will just get laughed out of it by FFG?
Your nearest actual TD like. Or write to your nearest FFG shill, even if they didn't get in last time round. Sure they don't know whether you did or ever would vote for them, but raising an issue with a vote hungry local individual can be surprisingly effective.
https://youtu.be/bSHz5S3yIzg
The Yanks really are in a league of their own when it comes to producing annoying cunts (James Corden being the glaring exception).
https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/lawmakers-bought-sold-covid-19-related-stocks-during-pandemic-2021-12
Quote
At least 75 federal lawmakers held shares of Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, or Pfizer in 2020.
Lawmakers' holding stock in these companies has prompted ethical concerns.
Several other lawmakers traded shares of companies with a direct stake in the pandemic.
Quote from: Carnage on December 09, 2021, 02:01:20 PM
I see Varadkar's already pushing the fourth/booster shot. At what point, I wonder, will we start having to pay for them...?
I was actually thinking about that the other day. Must be costing a pretty penny now for country's to be getting more and more vaccines. The pharmaceutical companies must be rubbing their hands together in delight.
And their shareholders! (see above)
I can't quote the exacts but there is a number of our beloved overlords with shares in Pfizer et al as well. Luke "the voice of the people" O'Neill has received funding from Pfizer, GSK, Gates Foundation etc in the past as well as having co-founded Sitryx, a bio-pharma. Conflict of interest? Insider trading?
Whatever about conflict of interest (undeniable), there's certainly going to be zero interest from those people in releasing the vaccines from patent!
Our (a)pathetic country will not hold any of these cunts to task for hope of appearing as "good lads".
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0aZte37vtFTkYT7b0b04Qz
Think that link might be truncated.
This one should work
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0aZte37vtFTkYT7b0b04Qz
It does. McCullough has appeared a few times throughout the thread, including his senate hearings. A mix of good (patient care should be improved) and bad (ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, self-citing practices via the medical journal one is also the editor-in-chief of; in one issue featuring hydroxy centrally, McCullough was co-author on five of the papers published). In short, no worse than lawmakers who have a vested interest in Pfizer's profits, but absolutely no better either.
Good to finally be able to put a face to the name, KC!
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/rhpnyr/vaccine_for_dis_vaccine_for_dah/
That "One World Order" are an awful shower.
In South Africa, and even the Guateng region specifically, lagged excess deaths are not mapping to latest omicron driven wave of cases, as they did for the three previous waves. In fact, so far, excess deaths not really budging at all from baseline:
https://twitter.com/tomtom_m/status/1471137299526266883
If this is still the case for another few days... well, who knows, but it's good news so far.
News from SA still good... most media still concentrating on Denmark and UK projections:
https://fortune.com/2021/12/17/omicron-covid-hospitalization-rates-south-africa-lower-previous-variants-delta/
8pm closing time. Cunts. Should have left it alone. People will only head to house parties at 8 now. Omnicron is laughing it's hole off.
But if you're one of 100 pissed up people at a wedding, or one of 5,000 screaming, spitting spectators at a match you're bulletproof. Ridiculous.
Man is this a load of shit. Fuck these spineless cunts.
I'm fucking on the cusp of losing another job at this stage.
The Christmas at home I had envisaged is looking shittier and more stuck in my mothers house with every passing day. I'll head over to your gaff though NecroRed, as per tradition. Might bring a bag of yokes just in case we got locked down mid-visit.
Will have the gaff filled with festive tins anyway. Never a dull moment :laugh:
Booked the booster shot there, might as well get it out of the way. Probably be saying the same thing in six months, then this time next year, ad infinitum. Christmas eve, so no waiting about.
Trump and Bill O'Reilly both announced live on stage yesterday that they had both received the booster, i.e. that they were triple vaccinated. Got booed by their own crowd. How thick-headed do you have to be, how much right-in-your-fucking-face evidence do you need before you realize and accept that it was all a political charade to manipulate you and your vote?
More "not bad" news on omicron. Notably, it's apparently fairly rubbish at multiplying in lung tissue compared to the original strain or delta, which is a strong candidate factor for cases being milder in South Africa:
https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1473273037629759491
Also a great piece of writing here that just might come the closest to articulating some kind of consensus point between those of us who post in this thread... even astfgyl (where are youuuuuu!?).
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/covid-panic-is-a-site-of-inter-elite?r=6j5l
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2021, 03:29:30 PM
Also a great piece of writing here that just might come the closest to articulating some kind of consensus point between those of us who post in this thread... even astfgyl (where are youuuuuu!?).
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/covid-panic-is-a-site-of-inter-elite?r=6j5l
Lol I'll tell him you were looking for him, last time I was chatting to him I almost convinced him to come back and apply for moderator purely to see how that would pan out
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2021, 02:59:09 PM
More "not bad" news on omicron. Notably, it's apparently fairly rubbish at multiplying in lung tissue compared to the original strain or delta, which is a strong candidate factor for cases being milder in South Africa:
https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1473273037629759491
If you're on twitter, you might enjoy some of Chise / Sailorrooscout's tweets. She's a vaccine scientist and posts some fairly stat-heavy but straightforward and well sourced stuff about covid and the current variant, in line with what you linked here the current research shows this to be generally less dangerous but more infectious, which is definitely good news on it all. https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout?t=-Y-pK_Ix_Ub54-oq4OE5pg&s=09
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1222/1268232-covid-pass/
Imagine if the conspiracy theorists could predict the lotto numbers.
Retards.
Quote from: mickO))) on December 22, 2021, 07:13:49 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/1222/1268232-covid-pass/
Imagine if the conspiracy theorists could predict the lotto numbers.
I find this terrifying. Very orwellian it seems
The Swedes have been doing microchip implants for years before Covid. It was retarded then and continues to be retarded now.
Scary.
What did big Ian say?
'Never, Never, Never'!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 23, 2021, 03:16:25 PM
Scary.
What did big Ian say?
'Never, Never, Never'!
"The new Zeus variant is upon us. It's crucial that we have these microchips installed for the safety of our people" follwed by ridicule of anyone who doesn't get microchipped, followed by banning people who aren't microchipped from shops/entertainment etc.
Quote from: ochoill on December 21, 2021, 11:36:09 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 21, 2021, 03:29:30 PM
Also a great piece of writing here that just might come the closest to articulating some kind of consensus point between those of us who post in this thread... even astfgyl (where are youuuuuu!?).
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/covid-panic-is-a-site-of-inter-elite?r=6j5l
Lol I'll tell him you were looking for him, last time I was chatting to him I almost convinced him to come back and apply for moderator purely to see how that would pan out
Happy to hear he's grand!
Jab 3 got. Quick in and out this time, now that they've done away with the 15 min. waiting period. Back in for the fourth in the summer, no doubt.
Got mine on Sunday, a bit worse for wear on Monday but fuckit. Hopefully this new Pfizer treatment is as good as is being made out. A booster every 6 months would be annoying.
Brother, sister and other family members all tested positive in the last week so I had to cancel (well, change) my flights at the last minute. Head wrecked.
You're in good company. My housemate tested positive so I can't go home.
My sister was a close contact, then the HSE told her she wasn't. Fuck it, tests and all that.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 24, 2021, 01:41:02 PM
Brother, sister and other family members all tested positive in the last week so I had to cancel (well, change) my flights at the last minute. Head wrecked.
Herself got a positive from a rapid test she did last night after developing symptoms. She's been knocked out by it all day today as well, isolated with my side of the family here in Spain so we won't be able to go on to see hers for New Year. Gutted she is, also wasn't expecting such a dose with the double vax, though it's still in realm of just a solid flu.
The brother got a severe dose, he was fairly bollixed for 3 or 4 days. All his kids tested positive too (surprise surprise) so it was a zoom call over the sandwiches on the 25th.
Pedro Sánchez and pals only response to the astonishing speed the thing spreads is to wear the mask outside again. Totally contemptible and happily most people are using common sense and complying only when the streets are thronged.
Have to say, airlines are being sweethearts about flight changes (as in, they're not charging), and I have to admit, 18 days to read and hit the gym and lounge about in my jocks with the heating on watching transformers ,no bad thing at all. She's heading up to Galicia to see her family in a few days leaving me to my own devices. Sound!
Lol.... Pure Bloods arise.... :abbath:
https://mobile.twitter.com/robgilbey/status/1473593582116237313
Thanks to the efforts of Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, we have received the gift of pozzed blood for Christmas!
https://theliberal.ie/minister-for-health-stephen-donnelly-relaxes-restrictions-on-homosexual-and-bisexual-men-giving-blood-donations-in-ireland/
Besides being as low as your usual standard, neither of those stories has anything to do with coronavirus. Another stroke over the holidays??
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 27, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Besides being as low as your usual standard, neither of those stories has anything to do with coronavirus. Another stroke over the holidays??
One of many at this stage.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 27, 2021, 06:21:55 PM
Besides being as low as your usual standard, neither of those stories has anything to do with coronavirus. Another stroke over the holidays??
Ha, ya got me on the first one. :laugh:
I posted the wrong link :laugh:
The second link is quite apt, as a lot of people would choose not to have a vaccinated blood transfusion.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 27, 2021, 04:39:42 PM
Lol.... Pure Bloods arise.... :abbath:
https://mobile.twitter.com/robgilbey/status/1473593582116237313
Mmm...no need to worry about these Sputnik Vaxxed soldiers as they will be no match for our Pfizer supercell warriors!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on December 27, 2021, 07:12:13 PM
a lot of people would choose not to have a vaccinated blood transfusion.
Perfect opportunity for a collective Darwin award: anyone refusing a blood transfusion because the donor was vaccinated.
Blood transfusion or heart attack. Mmmmmmm, tough choice.....
Them footballers and sports stars are still dropping like flies boy...
A good graph flu/Convid comparison that stretches back to 1989....
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrianvLowe/status/1325934439902433289?s=20
Anyone I know who has been to hospital this year has said they're empty too. Looks like last year was the same too....
https://freepress.ie/2021/03/exclusive-irish-foi-data-release-proves-there-was-no-pandemic/
Almost two years in, the rona finally got me! (Prob got me a month ago too, but this is my first positive test.) Unpleasant, not recommended, but the dose herself got was far worse.
Keep us updated Shepherd, best wishes lad
Hope ye both make a full recovery in good time.
Aye, take care and all that.
Hopefully your symptoms aren't too bad for you both....
Dr Robert Malone banned off Twitter. Can have anyone go against the narrative I guess...
https://mobile.twitter.com/pbhushan1/status/1476399667084546050?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Well wishes appreciated! I was pretty much symptom free within an intense 36 hours, but I think I had Delta for 10 days a month ago. Herself who had nothing back then is pushing 6 days of symptoms this time round. Plus side is we're in the middle of nowhere up the mountains in Navarra, so couldn't really ask for a better place for the rest of us, especially the wee lad, to be in isolation.
How's the little fella, any symptoms?
No, nothing at all thankfully. 2 years of immunity development in crèche finally paying dividends maybe!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 30, 2021, 11:50:27 AM
No, nothing at all thankfully. 2 years of immunity development in crèche finally paying dividends maybe!
How would you look at the prospect of getting the little fella vaccinated, if it wouldn't be too much to ask?
I think his young lad is not much more than an infant, no need to be sticking the very young Hrvatski!
Quote from: warhead on December 30, 2021, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 30, 2021, 11:50:27 AM
No, nothing at all thankfully. 2 years of immunity development in crèche finally paying dividends maybe!
How would you look at the prospect of getting the little fella vaccinated, if it wouldn't be too much to ask?
Yeah, he's only 2 1/2 so not in the firing line yet. But neither mammy nor I are in favour of mandatory vaccination for minors of any age. Nor booster mandates for that matter.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 30, 2021, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: warhead on December 30, 2021, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on December 30, 2021, 11:50:27 AM
No, nothing at all thankfully. 2 years of immunity development in crèche finally paying dividends maybe!
How would you look at the prospect of getting the little fella vaccinated, if it wouldn't be too much to ask?
Yeah, he's only 2 1/2 so not in the firing line yet. But neither mammy nor I are in favour of mandatory vaccination for minors of any age. Nor booster mandates for that matter.
Ahhh, apology, yeah, didn't know the lad is still so young.
I was kinda asking as some countries plan to start vaccinating 5 year olds, if I didn't mix some things up and wanted to hear an opinion of a parent about it.
Tested positive today. Happy new year indeed...
Lovely.
Just got a negative antigen test, not that that actually means much. My sister's had 2 positives, and is waiting for PCR results. Odds are we'll get it, sooner rather than later. Fuck it.
The kettle's really starting to boil now! Far from definite, but there is a chance this could be endgame.
I'm very much in the Ken Watanabe 'let them fight' frame of mind in regards to the old Omicron. Early days yet obviously, but this seems to be what everyone was hoping for so let it run rampant. A mate just back from China (where to all intents and purposes it's apparently done) reckoned six weeks would see it through, if let unchecked.
Got moderna booster yesterday and holy shit did your one puncture the top of my arm. Got pfizer first 2 jabs and only had sore arm and tiredness nothing major, but with this I got the full chills/fever/fatigue. Not something you want to be taking every 3-6 months...then on the flip side...getting rona 1-2 times a year.
I'm banking on omicron being the final wave, the numbers coming back so far hasn't ruled that out!
Quote from: Carnage on December 31, 2021, 06:11:19 PM
Lovely.
Just got a negative antigen test, not that that actually means much. My sister's had 2 positives, and is waiting for PCR results. Odds are we'll get it, sooner rather than later. Fuck it.
Shite. Yea my bro has it too.
Sister's test (finally) came back positive so now we know. I reckon my brother and I both had it already, we both had bad flus recently and she seems to be suffering the same symptoms. Head down anyway, fridge and freezer are both full so that's something.
In a house of 8, six of us ended up with symptoms; five of them confirmed COVID positive by rapid antigen tests (age range 9 to 52). The two who got nothing? Our 2 1/2 year old young lad and a very recently boosted 70 odd year old. The one who got the most violent dose? The only unvaccinated adult. Thankfully that wasn't herself; we were both symptom free enough yesterday to dash across the border, door-to-door, bubble-to-bubble.
Sorry to hear you're riddled Chris. Hopefully this is the death rattle of the virus...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 01, 2022, 11:44:52 PM
In a house of 8, six of us ended up with symptoms; five of them confirmed COVID positive by rapid antigen tests (age range 9 to 52). The two who got nothing? Our 2 1/2 year old young lad and a very recently boosted 70 odd year old. The one who got the most violent dose? The only unvaccinated adult. Thankfully that wasn't herself; we were both symptom free enough yesterday to dash across the border, door-to-door, bubble-to-bubble.
Sounds like you both had what used to be known as, a common cold.
When's the unvaccinated lad/lass being buried?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 01, 2022, 11:44:52 PM
In a house of 8, six of us ended up with symptoms; five of them confirmed COVID positive by rapid antigen tests (age range 9 to 52). The two who got nothing? Our 2 1/2 year old young lad and a very recently boosted 70 odd year old. The one who got the most violent dose? The only unvaccinated adult. Thankfully that wasn't herself; we were both symptom free enough yesterday to dash across the border, door-to-door, bubble-to-bubble.
Good to hear ye're practically fine again. That's an interesting eye opener though to see how things worked in a house of 8 with various statuses.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on January 02, 2022, 11:17:37 AM
Sounds like you both had what used to be known as, a common cold.
I don't know anybody, anywhere, who has been stuck to a bed, over Christmas, for four days by a common cold, you reprehensible retard :)
The unvaccinated one is lucky it's omicron and not one of the earlier variants she got hit by, but there were definite signs of regret in those stubborn eyes upon experiencing muscle pain much worse than any of the rest of us, and for longer, and more resistant to paracetamol. She's still bed bound, as much as she doesn't want to be since it in itself is an admission that coronavirus is clearly stronger than she'd banked on. Family member or not, I'm afraid to admit my sympathy thus far is faint.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 02, 2022, 12:25:18 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on January 02, 2022, 11:17:37 AM
Sounds like you both had what used to be known as, a common cold.
I don't know anybody, anywhere, who has been stuck to a bed, over Christmas, for four days by a common cold, you reprehensible retard :)
The unvaccinated one is lucky it's omicron and not one of the earlier variants she got hit by, but there were definite signs of regret in those stubborn eyes upon experiencing muscle pain much worse than any of the rest of us, and for longer, and more resistant to paracetamol. She's still bed bound, as much as she doesn't want to be since it in itself is an admission that coronavirus is clearly stronger than she'd banked on. Family member or not, I'm afraid to admit my sympathy thus far is faint.
Wow, talk about 'KILL AND EAT THE WEAK' :-X
In Spain, all the public clinics in the region we were in had simply stopped doing PCR tests because the demand had gotten so ludicrously high. You could do an antigen test through the pharmacy, and they'd note the result, or bring one home and upload your result to get it recorded. Herself needed one for work reasons, so she had to go to a private clinic in Spain to get one.
What had you's? Scratchy throat, aches?
That's what I'm hearing from anyone I know.
Actually, a couple of people (my older brother included) advised me to make sure me and my Mrs get Omicron. Then we can have the 6 month pass for travel, etc....
I'll be stuck to any fucker on Tuesday that's sneezing or coughing when I'm back at work. :laugh:
Bring it on, I've been hiking and staying totes fit over the Christmas holidays.... Good diet and the right supplements will keep you right boiz...
I'll play the game anytime it suits me 8)
Glad you and the fan are okay man. And best wishes to you all here for 2022....
The British Heart Foundation have an ad on TV where a young girl drops from a heart attack on a football pitch.
It's being normalised now. Those footballers and sports people are still dropping like flies.
Three footballers died last week. The new norm, huh?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on January 04, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
The British Heart Foundation have an ad on TV where a young girl drops from a heart attack on a football pitch.
It's being normalised now. Those footballers and sports people are still dropping like flies.
Three footballers died last week. The new norm, huh?
Is the Ad claiming covid is responsible for the heart attacks? Doubt that very much
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 01, 2022, 11:44:52 PM
In a house of 8, six of us ended up with symptoms; five of them confirmed COVID positive by rapid antigen tests (age range 9 to 52). The two who got nothing? Our 2 1/2 year old young lad and a very recently boosted 70 odd year old. The one who got the most violent dose? The only unvaccinated adult. Thankfully that wasn't herself; we were both symptom free enough yesterday to dash across the border, door-to-door, bubble-to-bubble.
So what you'r saying is that you chose to get injected with an experimental gene therapy vaccine, the long term physiological side effects of which are unknown.
A person you live with chose not to partake of this vaccine.
Both of ye got ill with the virus which you are vaccinated against but which the other person is not.
The person who wasn't vaccinated suffered slightly worse symptoms than you but after a number of days both of ye have recovered fully and now have natural immunity to the virus.
This means that both of ye are now in the same position with regard to immunity, which renders your acceptance of the vaccine a pointless exercise, the other person however is free of the risks of the experimental vaccine, whereas you are not.
You now, having carried out a risk/benefit analysis of the situation, somehow consider yourself to be in a better position than the other person.
Interesting.
The ability of the subconscious to protect the ego by warping the perceptions of the conscious mind is a source of never ending fascination to me.
If that's what I was saying, then that's what I would have said.
I chose to get injected with a vaccine based on robust science which I was able to not only study myself at my level of understanding, but also listen to many colleagues more qualified than me in the areas of virology and immunology speak about.
And, no, the other person hasn't recovered yet. Not fully, not at all. Still bed-bound, whereas I was out and about today.
Aren't you supposed to isolate for 10 days?
Quote from: Blackout on January 04, 2022, 06:53:59 PM
Aren't you supposed to isolate for 10 days?
No. Two days after the end of the symptoms. Since I only had symptoms for about 36 hours, I'm well out of the window.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 04, 2022, 06:51:42 PM
If that's what I was saying, then that's what I would have said.
I chose to get injected with a vaccine based on robust science which I was able to not only study myself at my level of understanding, but also listen to many colleagues more qualified than me in the areas of virology and immunology speak about.
And, no, the other person hasn't recovered yet. Not fully, not at all. Still bed-bound, whereas I was out and about today.
Fair enough, sure if you'r happy with it that's all that matters.
Thanks for the clarification.
You're supposed to isolate for 7-10 days (booster depending) symptoms or no as you may still be contagious.
I've done my 5 days isolation (6 and counting) along with consistently negative antigen tests, I reckon I'm in the clear now.
Sister's coming back to health, the other sister's negative, brother's waiting for his result, but has no symptoms so far. Could be worse.
Quote from: Blackout on January 04, 2022, 07:00:03 PM
You're supposed to isolate for 7-10 days (booster depending) symptoms or no as you may still be contagious.
I don't live in Ireland.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 04, 2022, 06:44:10 PM
The person who wasn't vaccinated suffered slightly worse symptoms than you but after a number of days both of ye have recovered fully and now have natural immunity to the virus.
This means that both of ye are now in the same position with regard to immunity, which renders your acceptance of the vaccine a pointless exercise, the other person however is free of the risks of the experimental vaccine, whereas you are not.
As I mentioned here before I got the virus back at the end of October and I am not vaccinated. Was more or less a very mild cold. 4 of us in the house I am the only one not vaccinated 2 of the others had bad flus and the other person who is younger than me was fine.
Two of my friends one male and one female were both worse off after taking the vaccine last summer than I was when I had the actual virus. It fucked up the girls periods among other things and the guy ended up having to take a week off work because of the state he was in. Also both ended up getting catching the virus over Christmas and it hit both of them a lot worse than it hit me. Both are the same age as me and have no medical issues.
Also isn't the natural immunity strongest for someone who catches the virus and has never taken the vaccine?
Another great podcast from NYE
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SCsueX2bZdbEzRtKOCEyT
The previous episode with John Abramson is also an eye opener it goes into detail about the practises of companies like Pfizer.
I'm not vaccinated either man (obviously). Like BSC above I did plenty of research into the vaccines but I drew the complete opposite conclusion to him with regard to their safety and efficacy.
I haven't had Covid that I know of but to be fair I spend 70% of my time on my own outside, I live in the middle of nowhere, and I'm rarely in a town so I'm at low risk of contracting it, which was a contributing factor in my decision not to take the vaccine.
My brother in law was in a hoop after the vaccine for a few months with heart problems, wound up in hospital for tests and all that, the doctors refused to entertain the idea that there was any connection between his problems and the vaccine despite him having no history of heart problems at all and his symptoms (irregular heartbeat, racing heart, thinking he was going to pass out, frightened the shit out of him) starting two days after the second vaccine.
My cousin, a young woman with kids was found on the floor unconscious two weeks after her second vaccine, was the guts of two months in hospital with a brain injury (they don't seem to know what happened to her other than she developed a bleed on the brain and passed out, I don't know the full details) and is still recovering, again a perfectly healthy person, again the doctors disregarded any connection to the vaccine.
Anyone I know, either vaccinated or not, that had covid, suffered what amounts to a dose of flu for a few days
I don't know of anyone, nor does anyone I've asked (and I've asked a lot), who died or suffered long term ill effects from covid.
Make of that what you will.
It's a cult... :abbath:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59876583
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 05, 2022, 02:40:56 AM
I'm not vaccinated either man (obviously). Like BSC above I did plenty of research into the vaccines but I drew the complete opposite conclusion to him with regard to their safety and efficacy.
I haven't had Covid that I know of but to be fair I spend 70% of my time on my own outside, I live in the middle of nowhere, and I'm rarely in a town so I'm at low risk of contracting it, which was a contributing factor in my decision not to take the vaccine.
My brother in law was in a hoop after the vaccine for a few months with heart problems, wound up in hospital for tests and all that, the doctors refused to entertain the idea that there was any connection between his problems and the vaccine despite him having no history of heart problems at all and his symptoms (irregular heartbeat, racing heart, thinking he was going to pass out, frightened the shit out of him) starting two days after the second vaccine.
My cousin, a young woman with kids was found on the floor unconscious two weeks after her second vaccine, was the guts of two months in hospital with a brain injury (they don't seem to know what happened to her other than she developed a bleed on the brain and passed out, I don't know the full details) and is still recovering, again a perfectly healthy person, again the doctors disregarded any connection to the vaccine.
Anyone I know, either vaccinated or not, that had covid, suffered what amounts to a dose of flu for a few days
I don't know of anyone, nor does anyone I've asked (and I've asked a lot), who died or suffered long term ill effects from covid.
Make of that what you will.
Twenty two months into this and I know only two people who got it bad, both male friends mid thirties both. One is overweight and unfit and the other has abused drugs all his adult life.
Both were out of action for over a month and I believe it was a scary experience for each one.
I work with 300+ people and Covid has passed through this working environment, but thankfully anyone who got the Shanghai Shakes only suffered mild symptoms.
Members of my family have also got the China Chills, but again thankfully only mild symptoms.
I'm sure the virus has been in me but passed through because there's no way I could not have been in contact with it after almost two years now and I've never worn the face diapers except for the first few weeks back in early 2020....
Do we need to be careful and treat this disease with caution? Absolutely!
Does the world have to stop in its tracks for it? No!
And never should have....
It's a set up, and I'll never stop believing that because of the likes of Leo and his; "THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL" quip right back in March/April 2020.
How the fuck did he know this was the new normal back then so early into this? Because he was told..!!
Unless we all rise up to this, then we're never going to see the likes of 2019 again, or anything like it.
The gigs forum on this site is testament to that. D.E.A.D.
Another victim of climate change, marijuana and being too fit.... RIP.........
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 05, 2022, 02:40:56 AM
I'm not vaccinated either man (obviously). Like BSC above I did plenty of research into the vaccines but I drew the complete opposite conclusion to him with regard to their safety and efficacy.
I haven't had Covid that I know of but to be fair I spend 70% of my time on my own outside, I live in the middle of nowhere, and I'm rarely in a town so I'm at low risk of contracting it, which was a contributing factor in my decision not to take the vaccine.
My brother in law was in a hoop after the vaccine for a few months with heart problems, wound up in hospital for tests and all that, the doctors refused to entertain the idea that there was any connection between his problems and the vaccine despite him having no history of heart problems at all and his symptoms (irregular heartbeat, racing heart, thinking he was going to pass out, frightened the shit out of him) starting two days after the second vaccine.
My cousin, a young woman with kids was found on the floor unconscious two weeks after her second vaccine, was the guts of two months in hospital with a brain injury (they don't seem to know what happened to her other than she developed a bleed on the brain and passed out, I don't know the full details) and is still recovering, again a perfectly healthy person, again the doctors disregarded any connection to the vaccine.
Anyone I know, either vaccinated or not, that had covid, suffered what amounts to a dose of flu for a few days
I don't know of anyone, nor does anyone I've asked (and I've asked a lot), who died or suffered long term ill effects from covid.
Make of that what you will.
I've heard of some mild to serious reactions to the vaccine, and there were a handful of tragic deaths.
Personally, I don't know anybody who suffered ill effects from the vaccine, and I know many times more people who are vaccinated than who had COVID. Conclusion? Nothing. You can't draw conclusions about public health matters involving billions of people based on what happens to the few dozen individuals in your own circle.
What happened in the house I got stuck in over Christmas is just an amusing anecdote because it happened to confirm the latest science to a great extent: in another house, something totally different may have happened. It was almost certainly omicron though, so the science did also help to understand that that's probably why essentially everyone got hit by it within a couple of days (it's more transmissible), all cases were relatively mild (it's less effective at replicating in the lungs), it hit both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated (its mutations give it the ability to evade antibodies generated against the earlier strains), the only recently boosted person escaped it completely (despite vaccine protection against serious forms dropping off at an unacceptably fast rate, initial protection even against omicron is nevertheless high), and so on.
Back to the good news: while global cases continue to be over twice as high as they have ever been, even during previous peaks, global deaths are still lower than they've been since the end of October 2020.
I believe it was all started by Zuckerberg to get people used to living their lives at home making his new Metaverse the new beacon of hope.
This is how conspiracy theories start, right?
It was started by an unnamed beer company.
While there might be good news re Omnicron severity, it remains to be seen how the sheer numbers will work out here.
My wife's friend has been in hospital with their 5yo who has Kawasaki disease since last week and was expected to stay in for the next month as they monitor how much damage has been done to the kid's heart.
However CUH had 60 Covid illness admissions last night alone, so they've cleared the wards of anyone who can walk out in preparation for a continued influx (number of hospital staff out probably doesn't help either). So the 5yo was kicked out this morning despite the seriousness of their illness.
5 other very young kids have had Kawasaki disease there the past few weeks - 1 died, 1 has serious liver damage, 1 has major heart problems, all after contacting Covid the previous few weeks and then developing Kawasaki disease as a consequence. Presuming they were Delta related by the timeline so hoping Omicron doesn't have the same consequences for kids.
Despite other people's feedback here, I know of enough deaths, hospitalisations and heart problems for healthy and unhealthy people pre-vaccines, but I don't have the same knowledge since vaccines were introduced (bar a fit 40yo neighbour was hospitalised for a day due to Covid, but she was vacinnated so likely less severe than what it could have been). Still mad the way Covid and vaccines affect people differently, and I've had no issues whatsoever after any of my 3 shots (Pfizer x2, Moderna booster), but vaccines are certainly working from my point of view and this is backed up by actual stats, i.e. not throwing any old soccer issue out there without a clue of their prior health or recent vaccine status and yet insinuating that it's down to vaccines and that there were never such issues before 🤦🏼
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 05, 2022, 09:40:59 AM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 05, 2022, 02:40:56 AM
I'm not vaccinated either man (obviously). Like BSC above I did plenty of research into the vaccines but I drew the complete opposite conclusion to him with regard to their safety and efficacy.
I haven't had Covid that I know of but to be fair I spend 70% of my time on my own outside, I live in the middle of nowhere, and I'm rarely in a town so I'm at low risk of contracting it, which was a contributing factor in my decision not to take the vaccine.
My brother in law was in a hoop after the vaccine for a few months with heart problems, wound up in hospital for tests and all that, the doctors refused to entertain the idea that there was any connection between his problems and the vaccine despite him having no history of heart problems at all and his symptoms (irregular heartbeat, racing heart, thinking he was going to pass out, frightened the shit out of him) starting two days after the second vaccine.
My cousin, a young woman with kids was found on the floor unconscious two weeks after her second vaccine, was the guts of two months in hospital with a brain injury (they don't seem to know what happened to her other than she developed a bleed on the brain and passed out, I don't know the full details) and is still recovering, again a perfectly healthy person, again the doctors disregarded any connection to the vaccine.
Anyone I know, either vaccinated or not, that had covid, suffered what amounts to a dose of flu for a few days
I don't know of anyone, nor does anyone I've asked (and I've asked a lot), who died or suffered long term ill effects from covid.
Make of that what you will.
I've heard of some mild to serious reactions to the vaccine, and there were a handful of tragic deaths. Personally, I don't know anybody who suffered ill effects from the vaccine, and I know many times more people who are vaccinated than who had COVID. Conclusion? Nothing. You can't draw conclusions about public health matters involving billions of people based on what happens to the few dozen individuals in your own circle.
What happened in the house I got stuck in over Christmas is just an amusing anecdote because it happened to confirm the latest science to a great extent: in another house, something totally different may have happened. It was almost certainly omicron though, so the science did also help to understand that that's probably why essentially everyone got hit by it within a couple of days (it's more transmissible), all cases were relatively mild (it's less effective at replicating in the lungs), it hit both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated (its mutations give it the ability to evade antibodies generated against the earlier strains), the only recently boosted person escaped it completely (despite vaccine protection against serious forms dropping off at an unacceptably fast rate, initial protection even against omicron is nevertheless high), and so on.
Here's your "few mild to serious reactions and a handful of tragic deaths" as of December -
According to VAERS in america - 19,886 dead. 32,644 permanently injured.
figures for Europe - 34,337 dead. 3,120,439 injuries.
According to HPRA in Ireland - 94 dead. 16,313 injuries.
Of course these are only a fraction of the true numbers as, like for instance the two cases I mentioned above, the reactions were never reported to the HPRA as they should have been by the so-called doctors.
I don't know that what happened to these two people was caused by the vaccine, neither do the doctors, that's the fucking reason for having a reporting system, to compile information and analyse it for similar reactions experienced by a statistically relevant number of people, ya know like, fucking science.
Without a source, I'm afraid I can't take those figures as currency. And even with a source, VAERS is not reliable since it's an open platform that anybody can submit information to. That means it has the opposite problem of what you're rightly criticizing the HPRA for. But I would be interested to know where your figures came from, since I can't readily find them, and I trust the anti-vax movement ever so slightly even less than state bodies, although it's a battle of transparent bullshit at this stage.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 05, 2022, 06:17:44 PM
Here's your "few mild to serious reactions and a handful of tragic deaths" as of December -
According to VAERS in america - 19,886 dead. 32,644 permanently injured.
figures for Europe - 34,337 dead. 3,120,439 injuries.
According to HPRA in Ireland - 94 dead. 16,313 injuries.
Of course these are only a fraction of the true numbers as, like for instance the two cases I mentioned above, the reactions were never reported to the HPRA as they should have been by the so-called doctors.
I don't know that what happened to these two people was caused by the vaccine, neither do the doctors, that's the fucking reason for having a reporting system, to compile information and analyse it for similar reactions experienced by a statistically relevant number of people, ya know like, fucking science.
There's so much wrong and out of context here I can't let it go without comment. I don't know where to start, other than to guess you've caught a bad dose of the KC's ;)
Have you actually looked at the HPRA website, not to mind the actual report? Or have you just copied and pasted from your friendly local anti-vaxxer?
I'm just looking at the HSE area of operations in Ireland, not the rest of Ireland, the EU or the US.
First off, when you attend for a vaccine here you get an information leaflet. It clearly highlights you can report any side-effects yourself and how you can go about it. Indeed you're encouraged to report any issues. It doesn't say submit to your GP and let them decide.
If you discarded the info then guess what - the HPRA website clearly states at the top how you can report side effects. Click and voila https://www.hpra.ie/homepage/about-us/report-an-issue/covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reaction
You can then fill in the position of the person submitting the report, including an option to select as a patient.
So based on these facts I have to call shenanigans on your hysteria to what you wrongly believe is a censored reporting system. The patients themselves have the power to submit if they so wish.
With regards to the comment " According to HPRA in Ireland - 94 dead. 16,313 injuries", it's a sobering headline but is without context, is totally selective and conveniently misses the main points.
Report: https://www.hpra.ie/docs/default-source/default-document-library/safety-update-covid-19-vaccines-overview-of-national-reporting-experience-(09122021).pdf?sfvrsn=0#page12
Re 16,313 "injuries" "according to the HPRA", they don't refer to injuries at all but to suspected side-effects of varying degrees which are well detailed in the report (I've added comments in italics):
"As of 30 November, a total of 16,313 reports of suspected side effects were notified to the HPRA. The number of COVID-19 vaccines administered as of that date was reported as 7,503,706... (
so there's suspected side-effects in 0.2% of vaccine doses administered here ). Additionally, as of that date, 761,065 booster doses have been administered.
(so that 0.2% goes to 0.18%, but as discussed below this depends on people actually reporting suspected side-effects and covers varying degrees of severity that are largely mild to moderate)- Whilst not experienced by everyone, all vaccines have some side effects, the vast majority of which are mild to moderate in nature. These side effects need to be continuously balanced against the benefits, given the risk of COVID-19 illness and related complications, and as scientific evidence shows that they reduce deaths and hospitalisations due to COVID-19. Overall, the national reporting experience continues to support the favourable assessment that the benefits of COVID-19 vaccines outweigh the risks."
The type of KC-friendly post also misses these pertinent facts:
" UNDERSTANDING THE DATA PRESENTED WITHIN THIS SAFETY UPDATE
... it is important to understand that conclusions on the safety of a vaccine cannot be drawn based on the information provided, given well-established and known limitations in interpreting such data in isolation, examples of which are described below
Causation
The HPRA receives reports based on suspicion that an adverse experience may be associated with vaccination. This does not mean the vaccine caused the adverse experience. As such, these are referred to as 'suspected' side effects.
Reports may describe coincidental events, which have occurred post-vaccination, but would have occurred even if vaccination had not taken place (e.g. they may be due to an underlying medical condition, or be signs and symptoms of another illness).
Each individual report is carefully reviewed, however, the totality of data from all sources (e.g. clinical and epidemiological studies and literature) must be considered as part of ongoing safety monitoring to ensure evidenced based conclusions are drawn.
Number/volume
As the HPRA system is based on voluntary reporting, not all suspected side effects will be reported. As such, the number and types of reports notified can vary for a variety of reasons.
An increased number of reports is expected for COVID-19 vaccines, given public interest as well
as HPRA calls encouraging reporting. This is known as stimulated reporting.
A single report may describe more than one suspected side effect in an individual (e.g. headache and nausea reported together), therefore, the number of side effects may exceed the total of reports received."
Re deaths, I note families of some here have come out afterwards to say they were still glad the deceased member got the vaccine and still encouraged others to get the vaccine and not be put off as these people already had underlying conditions.
I digress, so back to the report that was so conveniently butchered, with emphasis added in bold by me...
Reports of deaths following COVID-19 vaccination
A total of 94 reports have been received describing an individual who was known to have been vaccinated and
subsequently passed away... The majority of reports (approximately 80%) with a fatal outcome describe an individual aged 75 years and over, with the
median age of the individuals being 83 years.. For a number of reports, the cause of death was unconfirmed at the time of reporting, with
post mortem results awaited.
Reports describing a death are carefully reviewed. However,
it can be expected that fatalities due to progression of underlying disease or natural causes will continue to occur, including following vaccination. This does not mean that the vaccine caused the deaths.
I note that from https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/detailed-profile-of-cases that about 3% of all Covid cases have been hospitalised here. This is after the mass role out of vaccines and the huge increase in cases as restrictions were lifted. It seems the hack has ruined the HPSC.ie surveillance reports for pre-Sept 2021 but that figure was much higher previously.
Comparing this with 0.2% reporting suspected side-effects from a vaccine (including the most minor of issues, and ignoring that only a fraction of which could conceivably require hospital treatment to account for the under-reporting by patients), coupled with the over-representation of unvaccinated people hospitalised and in ICU, then it's difficult to understand how not taking a vaccine is seen as a better and safer option in the grand scheme of things. I'm not downplaying what those people experienced but they obviously can and should report issues, despite your unfounded assertions. In any event the headline stat is clearly misleading, completely ignorant of the actual report and is of very little merit.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 05, 2022, 09:13:44 PM
Without a source, I'm afraid I can't take those figures as currency. And even with a source, VAERS is not reliable since it's an open platform that anybody can submit information to. That means it has the opposite problem of what you're rightly criticizing the HPRA for. But I would be interested to know where your figures came from, since I can't readily find them, and I trust the anti-vax movement ever so slightly even less than state bodies, although it's a battle of transparent bullshit at this stage.
The best source of information I've found to date is on the Integrity Ireland homepage man.
When ya go onto it go up to Home on the top left and you'll see the vax data link, when ya go to that you'll see vax data on a grey grid type thing, go into that and down the page a bit you'll see a blue link to the Data Analytica data base.
It's a huge compilation of information, all with links to the source information and I'm inclined to trust it.
I'm not an anti-vaxer by any means man but I strongly believe in transparency, freedom of choice and fairness.
I may not agree with your stance on this vaccine issue but I admire the strength with which you defend it, as I admire anyone who has a strongly held opinion and is prepared to stand by it.
As an aside, there's a lot of interesting stuff re. the Gards, the judiciary and the dept. of justice re. corruption, collusion etc. etc. on that Integrity Ireland website. I'd encourage anyone with an interest in such matters to check it out, they have a heap of videos and stuff on facebook too I believe and some stuff on You Tube, although a lot of the stuff on You Tube seems to have disappeared of late.
They are a very interesting organisation.
Quote from: Snare on January 06, 2022, 02:12:38 AM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 05, 2022, 06:17:44 PM
Here's your "few mild to serious reactions and a handful of tragic deaths" as of December -
According to VAERS in america - 19,886 dead. 32,644 permanently injured.
figures for Europe - 34,337 dead. 3,120,439 injuries.
According to HPRA in Ireland - 94 dead. 16,313 injuries.
Of course these are only a fraction of the true numbers as, like for instance the two cases I mentioned above, the reactions were never reported to the HPRA as they should have been by the so-called doctors.
I don't know that what happened to these two people was caused by the vaccine, neither do the doctors, that's the fucking reason for having a reporting system, to compile information and analyse it for similar reactions experienced by a statistically relevant number of people, ya know like, fucking science.
There's so much wrong and out of context here I can't let it go without comment. I don't know where to start, other than to guess you've caught a bad dose of the KC's ;)
Have you actually looked at the HPRA website, not to mind the actual report? Or have you just copied and pasted from your friendly local anti-vaxxer?
I'm just looking at the HSE area of operations in Ireland, not the rest of Ireland, the EU or the US.
First off, when you attend for a vaccine here you get an information leaflet. It clearly highlights you can report any side-effects yourself and how you can go about it. Indeed you're encouraged to report any issues. It doesn't say submit to your GP and let them decide.
If you discarded the info then guess what - the HPRA website clearly states at the top how you can report side effects. Click and voila https://www.hpra.ie/homepage/about-us/report-an-issue/covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reaction
You can then fill in the position of the person submitting the report, including an option to select as a patient.
So based on these facts I have to call shenanigans on your hysteria to what you wrongly believe is a censored reporting system. The patients themselves have the power to submit if they so wish.
With regards to the comment " According to HPRA in Ireland - 94 dead. 16,313 injuries", it's a sobering headline but is without context, is totally selective and conveniently misses the main points.
Report: https://www.hpra.ie/docs/default-source/default-document-library/safety-update-covid-19-vaccines-overview-of-national-reporting-experience-(09122021).pdf?sfvrsn=0#page12
Re 16,313 "injuries" "according to the HPRA", they don't refer to injuries at all but to suspected side-effects of varying degrees which are well detailed in the report (I've added comments in italics):
"As of 30 November, a total of 16,313 reports of suspected side effects were notified to the HPRA. The number of COVID-19 vaccines administered as of that date was reported as 7,503,706... (so there's suspected side-effects in 0.2% of vaccine doses administered here ). Additionally, as of that date, 761,065 booster doses have been administered. (so that 0.2% goes to 0.18%, but as discussed below this depends on people actually reporting suspected side-effects and covers varying degrees of severity that are largely mild to moderate)
- Whilst not experienced by everyone, all vaccines have some side effects, the vast majority of which are mild to moderate in nature. These side effects need to be continuously balanced against the benefits, given the risk of COVID-19 illness and related complications, and as scientific evidence shows that they reduce deaths and hospitalisations due to COVID-19. Overall, the national reporting experience continues to support the favourable assessment that the benefits of COVID-19 vaccines outweigh the risks."
The type of KC-friendly post also misses these pertinent facts:
" UNDERSTANDING THE DATA PRESENTED WITHIN THIS SAFETY UPDATE
... it is important to understand that conclusions on the safety of a vaccine cannot be drawn based on the information provided, given well-established and known limitations in interpreting such data in isolation, examples of which are described below
Causation
The HPRA receives reports based on suspicion that an adverse experience may be associated with vaccination. This does not mean the vaccine caused the adverse experience. As such, these are referred to as 'suspected' side effects.
Reports may describe coincidental events, which have occurred post-vaccination, but would have occurred even if vaccination had not taken place (e.g. they may be due to an underlying medical condition, or be signs and symptoms of another illness).
Each individual report is carefully reviewed, however, the totality of data from all sources (e.g. clinical and epidemiological studies and literature) must be considered as part of ongoing safety monitoring to ensure evidenced based conclusions are drawn.
Number/volume
As the HPRA system is based on voluntary reporting, not all suspected side effects will be reported. As such, the number and types of reports notified can vary for a variety of reasons.
An increased number of reports is expected for COVID-19 vaccines, given public interest as well
as HPRA calls encouraging reporting. This is known as stimulated reporting.
A single report may describe more than one suspected side effect in an individual (e.g. headache and nausea reported together), therefore, the number of side effects may exceed the total of reports received."
Re deaths, I note families of some here have come out afterwards to say they were still glad the deceased member got the vaccine and still encouraged others to get the vaccine and not be put off as these people already had underlying conditions.
I digress, so back to the report that was so conveniently butchered, with emphasis added in bold by me...
Reports of deaths following COVID-19 vaccination
A total of 94 reports have been received describing an individual who was known to have been vaccinated and subsequently passed away... The majority of reports (approximately 80%) with a fatal outcome describe an individual aged 75 years and over, with the median age of the individuals being 83 years.. For a number of reports, the cause of death was unconfirmed at the time of reporting, with post mortem results awaited.
Reports describing a death are carefully reviewed. However, it can be expected that fatalities due to progression of underlying disease or natural causes will continue to occur, including following vaccination. This does not mean that the vaccine caused the deaths.
I note that from https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/detailed-profile-of-cases that about 3% of all Covid cases have been hospitalised here. This is after the mass role out of vaccines and the huge increase in cases as restrictions were lifted. It seems the hack has ruined the HPSC.ie surveillance reports for pre-Sept 2021 but that figure was much higher previously.
Comparing this with 0.2% reporting suspected side-effects from a vaccine (including the most minor of issues, and ignoring that only a fraction of which could conceivably require hospital treatment to account for the under-reporting by patients), coupled with the over-representation of unvaccinated people hospitalised and in ICU, then it's difficult to understand how not taking a vaccine is seen as a better and safer option in the grand scheme of things. I'm not downplaying what those people experienced but they obviously can and should report issues, despite your unfounded assertions. In any event the headline stat is clearly misleading, completely ignorant of the actual report and is of very little merit.
Yes, I have read the official report and am very aware of the caveats attached to the data.
If you had read the last two lines of the post you are replying to you would know that I am fully aware that the reported side effects are unverified, you would also have seen that I am fully aware of the reason such reporting systems are in place.
I am also aware that any individual can report to the HPRA system, the simple fact is that they do not, it is abhorrent that the doctors seem not to be either.
All that aside, as questionable as the reported data is, it is all we have to go on when researching adverse vaccine outcomes.
The data available with regard to covid deaths is equally as questionable, no post mortems there either, rampant co- morbidities, a majority of deaths in an age group exceeding 75, etc etc.
I won't get into the questionable covid case data other than to say that it is a nonsense to suggest that a person who is perfectly healthy and free of any symptoms should be regarded a covid case on the back of a positive PCR test result, a PCR test alone cannot, and should not, be used as an indicator of illness.
Those who approve of the vaccines can pick holes in the vaccine reporting system to suit their own ends just as those who disprove of the vaccines can pick holes in the covid death/case reporting system to suit theirs.
Personally I don't want to either contract covid, due to the risks, or take the vaccine, due to the risks
I can reduce my risk of contracting covid by taking simple precautions and I can eliminate the risk of suffering adverse effects from the vaccine by not taking it.
Is that not a reasonable view to take?
Boyz the Astfgyl homage is touching but even he never went over the 5 paragraph threshold.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 06, 2022, 02:30:21 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 05, 2022, 09:13:44 PM
Without a source, I'm afraid I can't take those figures as currency. And even with a source, VAERS is not reliable since it's an open platform that anybody can submit information to. That means it has the opposite problem of what you're rightly criticizing the HPRA for. But I would be interested to know where your figures came from, since I can't readily find them, and I trust the anti-vax movement ever so slightly even less than state bodies, although it's a battle of transparent bullshit at this stage.
The best source of information I've found to date is on the Integrity Ireland homepage man.
This is their data:
(https://forum.metalwarfare.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.integrityireland.ie%2Fimage003.jpg&hash=3b3125fe93338f642d3c61f55bd0e4be757dc66e)
It's just correlation though. That is just excess deaths vaguely mapped to vaccine rollout, but with no indication of whether those who died had been vaccinated or not. In January 2021, not all nursing home residents were all of a sudden vaccinated in one fell swoop. It took time to rollout, so there were still many unvaccinated in January 2021. What anyone interested in understanding the links would need to show first and foremost is what percentage of those excess nursing home deaths were due to infection. Notably they omit the data you can easily find here, which shows a huge spike in COVID deaths in January-March 2021:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
So, "integrity", not really; pushing a narrative just like everyone else, and hiding the most relevant data in order to do so.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 06, 2022, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 06, 2022, 02:30:21 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 05, 2022, 09:13:44 PM
Without a source, I'm afraid I can't take those figures as currency. And even with a source, VAERS is not reliable since it's an open platform that anybody can submit information to. That means it has the opposite problem of what you're rightly criticizing the HPRA for. But I would be interested to know where your figures came from, since I can't readily find them, and I trust the anti-vax movement ever so slightly even less than state bodies, although it's a battle of transparent bullshit at this stage.
The best source of information I've found to date is on the Integrity Ireland homepage man.
This is their data:
(https://forum.metalwarfare.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.integrityireland.ie%2Fimage003.jpg&hash=3b3125fe93338f642d3c61f55bd0e4be757dc66e)
It's just correlation though. That is just excess deaths vaguely mapped to vaccine rollout, but with no indication of whether those who died had been vaccinated or not. In January 2021, not all nursing home residents were all of a sudden vaccinated in one fell swoop. It took time to rollout, so there were still many unvaccinated in January 2021. What anyone interested in understanding the links would need to show first and foremost is what percentage of those excess nursing home deaths were due to infection. Notably they omit the data you can easily find here, which shows a huge spike in COVID deaths in January-March 2021:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
So, "integrity", not really; pushing a narrative just like everyone else, and hiding the most relevant data in order to do so.
You have either intentionally, to push your own narrative, or unwittingly, not gone to the data analytica section I directed you to at all, which is simply a database of international vaccine injury reports linked to the official sources, which is what you were looking for.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on January 06, 2022, 08:08:41 AM
Boyz the Astfgyl homage is touching but even he never went over the 5 paragraph threshold.
:laugh:, somebody had to fill the void left by astfgyl or these cunts would do themselves an injury slapping one anothers backs while telling themselves how clever and unerringly right they always are.
A bit of balance is required.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 06, 2022, 02:05:32 PM
You have either intentionally, to push your own narrative, or unwittingly, not gone to the data analytica section I directed you to at all, which is simply a database of international vaccine injury reports linked to the official sources, which is what you were looking for.
This is where I ended up, and it's called "data analytica", so I presume it's the right place:
http://www.data-analytica.org/database.htm
That's where I got that graph from. I don't see any international data though.
I got there from here:
http://www.integrityireland.ie/page62.html
Oh wait, found it, finally:
http://www.data-analytica.org/page2.htm
Well, that would take ages to go through. But since they omitted crucial relevant data from the Irish case, why would I presume they can be trusted to properly collate and cross-reference US or EU data?? There's only so many hours in the day!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 06, 2022, 02:47:02 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 06, 2022, 02:05:32 PM
You have either intentionally, to push your own narrative, or unwittingly, not gone to the data analytica section I directed you to at all, which is simply a database of international vaccine injury reports linked to the official sources, which is what you were looking for.
This is where I ended up, and it's called "data analytica", so I presume it's the right place:
http://www.data-analytica.org/database.htm
That's where I got that graph from. I don't see any international data though.
I got there from here:
http://www.integrityireland.ie/page62.html
Oh wait, found it, finally:
http://www.data-analytica.org/page2.htm
Well, that would take ages to go through. But since they omitted crucial relevant data from the Irish case, why would I presume they can be trusted to properly collate and cross-reference US or EU data?? There's only so many hours in the day!
Its a bit awkward to find allright in fairness.
Its just handy because its all together in one place and as I said there's links there to all the official sources so ya can check all the figures yourself.
I don't put any truck at all in any conclusions Integrity Ireland draw from the figures, its just a handy way of keeping track of the different reporting system numbers.
With regard to the discussion that's going on here, I'm just trying to highlight the fact that situation really is not black or white, there is no right or wrong. Its a massive grey clusterfuck of a thing.
My sister's just finished her isolation, she's through it now. So, of course my other sister tested positive on her second PCR test. Not that I have anywhere to go for the next few days, but fucksake...
Just found out that the guy who I've been covering at work last week and now this week is a piss taker.
His Mrs didn't test positive, she just felt 'unwell'...
Fuck him, prick!
Another correct prediction from the Conspiracy Theorists. Mandatory Vaccines are coming.
Quote from: Blackout on January 10, 2022, 04:02:27 PM
Another correct prediction from the Conspiracy Theorists. Mandatory Vaccines are coming.
False alarm for now according to Mehole along with the usual "two weeks are crucial" spiel.
Joe Rogan called out on his vaccine BS live:
https://twitter.com/FullContactMTWF/status/1481638689415462916
(I still don't think kids need to be vaccinated, which is actually why I personally am pissed off with this over-reliance on exaggerated to the point of BS claims of vaccines causing myocarditis.)
I like the man but he won't give an inch on COVID, especially ever since he made absolute cunts out of CNN a while back over meds he was taking.
I'll give him a pass.
I'm always on the fence about him. He's annoying as fuck but some guests are great.
Fairly tabloid lead from you Chris. I'd see that as a discussion. He's usually alright with being wrong, unlike yourself. Swooosh. Haha.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 14, 2022, 02:21:25 PM
Fairly tabloid lead from you Chris. I'd see that as a discussion. He's usually alright with being wrong, unlike yourself. Swooosh. Haha.
:laugh:
Didn't mean it in a tabloid way. It's fairly rare for him to be called on his BS. And the whole, "the vaccines are causing more damage in young people than COVID" schtick is, as far as I'm concerned, BS. As you say, in the clip he handles being shown this just fine, didn't say otherwise. But it's not like the data is new or anything. Seems it took someone actually challenging him on it live on the podcast for him to actually look at data we've had for months which shows he's been spreading anti-vax propaganda as fact.
We've had a fair few lads that are close contacts every second Monday, so now they have to send in details or show a positive Antigen test with the days paper of RTE new website behind it. There are also some who take advantage and fuck it for eveyone else.
Crazy the way it's burning through France. 5 million official positive cases so far in the 18 first days of 2022. That is 1/3 of the total cases recorded here since the beginning of the pandemic.
Looks like restrictions are going to end very soon. Thank fuck, want to go to gig so bad!
Just the news I wanted on the same day as bagging Primordial tickets for Limerick in March.
Quote from: Necro Red on January 21, 2022, 11:14:32 AM
Looks like restrictions are going to end very soon. Thank fuck, want to go to gig so bad!
They've announced the possibility of restrictions going down, but.........worry not!! They've already announced an imminent danger of a new variant looming :)
The new variant (the real one, not Deltacron, which appears to have been a contamination error) initially appears to be even more transmissible than B.1 omicron, without appearing to cause more severe illness, so I don't think it'll change any policies. Could be wrong though!
666 days.... how very Metal of our leaders :abbath:
Poor Justin Trudeau catching the virus and having to isolate just as the Truckers convey is about to hit Ottawa. Hopefully this whole thing will finally show the world what this man is truly about.
Matt le Tissier has made a video about the new sporting phenomenon that is sports people dropping like flies over the last 12 months...
https://www.oraclefilms.com/mattletissier
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on February 01, 2022, 08:20:38 PM
Matt le Tissier has made a video about the new sporting phenomenon that is sports people dropping like flies over the last 12 months...
https://www.oraclefilms.com/mattletissier
"This needs to be investigated."
Don't worry Matt, researchers, who had noticed that although rare the phenomenon was not in fact a case of "few and far between", started taking this problem seriously in the late 90s and have been investigating it ever since, all over the world, and will continue to do so. You should talk to some of them.
Justin T.... :laugh:
https://mobile.twitter.com/MorigeauJanine/status/1488674001949913089?s=20&t=U7CCZodWJ1EJL6ZyVo8CHQ
Commie prick...
Saw a clip on Sky News UK....
The new Omicron sub variant (BA.2) is far more transmissible than the original and is also far more likely to infect the vaccinated. This is according to scientists in Denmark...
The newsreader was laughing her flaps off as she read it out... :laugh:
Edit: here's the clip... :laugh:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/wEgo6pfEvvV5/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on February 01, 2022, 08:20:38 PM
Matt le Tissier has made a video about the new sporting phenomenon that is sports people dropping like flies over the last 12 months...
https://www.oraclefilms.com/mattletissier
Facebook,Twitter etc are in overdrive this morning banning this video.... :laugh:
I was reading the last couple of days about Cuba independently kicking COVID's ass: they developed their own vaccine, have since vaccinated a higher percentage of their population than any nation over 1 million inhabitants apart from the UAE with it (Cuba don't got none of the trust in the medical institution problems many western nations do, since both health and education are where their socialist ideals have historically always shone, with an essentially 100% literacy rate), and have managed to just generally turn the whole thing around and get more on top of it than most nations, despite all the obstacles thrown in their way because the US is still hellbent on "proving" that socialism cannot work anywhere.
It's a pity that Cuba is one of the most crackpot, shitty countries to live in by almost any other standard.
They'd be the first to agree with you that it's a pity.
Isn't there some Indian region that did the same thing?
Denmark have called off all restrictions, all measures, all everything. No longer even any legal obligation to isolate if positive. Have left this open-ended to potential need to reintroduce measures, but given that cases are still high, and mortality too tbh, it would have to be something pretty serious to get them to change back I think.
I see Bayern Munich and Germany international footballer Thomas Müller has made a 'sudden death' video now too...
It's all the rage these days don't you know...
You will let us know when someone who has spent their career studying the tragic phenomenon says something about it, won't you?
For all you Joe Rogan haterz....
Ivermectin has been banned??
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_22_744
FDA Suddenly Removes Data on Moderna Vaccine Approval Which Showed 2.6x Heart Inflammation
https://youtu.be/KdbRZqKgjn4
GoFundMe are now refusing to pay out the donations to the Truckers Convey and are refunding all donations after they were pressured by the Canadian Government.
https://medium.com/gofundme-stories/update-gofundme-statement-on-the-freedom-convoy-2022-fundraiser-4ca7e9714e82
I think I'd go full Timmy McVeigh if I was living in Canada.
That is exactly what Chairman Trudeau is hoping for so he can feel justified in bringing in the army and then he can finally come out of hiding. More convoys are starting now in cites all over Canada, one in Finland and looks like one is also starting in New Zealand.
#FluTruxKlan
Really struck me funny
Quote from: mickO))) on February 05, 2022, 10:44:52 AM
GoFundMe are now refusing to pay out the donations to the Truckers Convey and are refunding all donations after they were pressured by the Canadian Government.
https://medium.com/gofundme-stories/update-gofundme-statement-on-the-freedom-convoy-2022-fundraiser-4ca7e9714e82
Yet during the Chaz occupation in Seattle, GoFundMe had no problem with fundraising campaigns for the scum infesting the area, they were happily publicising it looking for money, while the murders, rapes and all the other shit was going on.
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on February 05, 2022, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: mickO))) on February 05, 2022, 10:44:52 AM
GoFundMe are now refusing to pay out the donations to the Truckers Convey and are refunding all donations after they were pressured by the Canadian Government.
https://medium.com/gofundme-stories/update-gofundme-statement-on-the-freedom-convoy-2022-fundraiser-4ca7e9714e82
Yet during the Chaz occupation in Seattle, GoFundMe had no problem with fundraising campaigns for the scum infesting the area, they were happily publicising it looking for money, while the murders, rapes and all the other shit was going on.
Yes the Canadian media have been reporting an extraordinary amount of lies surrounding this convoy. CBC which would be Canadas CNN or RTE even tried to link it to Russia. CBC have also had the ability to comment switched off on it's Facebook page for over a week now. The reason gofund me gave for cancelling the fundraiser was absolute bollox as well nothing violent has happened at these protests and no evidence has shown up anywhere to back up the claims made by Ottawa police.
They tried to have the trucks towed both in Ottawa and at the protest taking place on the Edmonton / US border but every towing company that was called said they had covid and could not take on the job :laugh:
V-Aids :laugh:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
When will this bullshit ever stop... :laugh:
I see Vlad de Lad is nominated for the Nobel Peace prize for finding the cure for Covid :laugh:
"A terrifying, lethal pandemic that threatened all humanity. A terrifying war that threatens all humanity. On the slow burner; a climate crisis that threatens all humanity... If only something could deliver us from these existential threats🤔"
I spotted that on Twitter.
You either see it or you don't at this stage. The arguments here and there are only fluff. We've all had it, luckily it was a load of shite if it wasn't we'd all be dead simple as. The mitigations were a load of bollix the vaccines were a joke the response was the greatest propaganda ever until Ukraine.
And the merry go round never fucking stops
https://youtu.be/Hz5uyI171So
Nadal: looks like the end of his career...
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 21, 2022, 02:22:49 PM
https://youtu.be/Hz5uyI171So
Nadal: looks like the end of his career...
From a cracked rib?
So, are China still "laughing" at us??
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/05/this-is-inhumane-the-cost-of-zero-covid-in-shanghai
Y'know, I haven't paid a lot of attention to China in a while but it has been fun to hear the brother in law complain about lockdown there when he was telling me the only reason it wouldn't work here was because we wouldn't comply hard enough and if we would just properly copy the Chinese then we could be as free as he was living there.
He has changed his tune somewhat of late.. hopefully the rest of the world won't be so taken with the Chinese response in future as all it seems to do is prolong the inevitable. I suppose had there been a sterilising vaccine then one could say they had a point though, so I doubt the lockdown debate will ever truly be settled.
Finally got Rona'd. Balls
Quote from: Emphyrio on September 10, 2022, 06:52:44 PMFinally got Rona'd. Balls
Took you long enough, I got hopped three times now. (But only once since I got the shot, but it felt way worse than the first time)
3 times! Jaysus. Ya, it was a miracle I avoided it this long.
https://wbt.com/421230/pete-kaliner-pfizer-official-admits-vax-never-tested-to-stop-transmission/
I don't know if that's how things are usually done and I feel she said no to a question that wasn't asked there but whatever about what Pfizer did or didn't do, it shows up how preposterous those Papers Please were. Entirely built on a false premise and someone somewhere should fucking hang for those. Also I love all the online backtracking going on: "I never supported blah blah blah..." Go to hell, cunts.
As for anyone who supported the use of them: congratulations, you are a little Nazi cunt in the making and the only reason it all failed because enough people could see the horror and stood against it. How many rejoiced as the likes of me couldn't bring my kids to the cinema? Well fuck ye, I bought a projector. No pub? Fuck ye, I'll drink at home. Anyhow, that won't be let go and the dirty little QR codes will be back in some other guise like for your carbon footprint or some other bollix.
Remember the Heineken ad, "The night belongs to the vaccinated"? Well fuck them and all the whole house of cards built on a foundation of shit.
As for anyone who thinks this is anything to do with taking vaccines, it's not in any way. Many folk just took theirs and shut the fuck up about it but a certain amount weren't happy unless I was forced to take mine whereas I never cared if you took yours or not, it should be a personal choice. I remember all the things that were said to me about it by members of the public when they presumed I'd have mine taken because of where I work. Fucking cunts, extra hot coal lashed on down in hell for you all, there will be no redemption for you fucking animals.
"My vaccine protects me, my vaccine protects you"
Indeed it doesn't. Anyway goodbye covid, you belong to the old and terrified now.
It didn't bother me in the slightest. I took it to protect me. Fuck everyone who isn't me.
Quote from: hellfire on October 14, 2022, 10:38:46 AMIt didn't bother me in the slightest. I took it to protect me. Fuck everyone who isn't me.
I know many many people with the same attitude and fully believe that's how it should be done. Might sound hard to believe but I'm not anti vaccine at all as tempting as it was too become so in the face of the passports.
Wow, it's almost as if they were only ever interested in making money... imagine!!!
I wonder what will happen this winter, does anybody give a fuck about covid anymore?
What will be the next scare and how will it be all the unvaccinated people's fault?
Are you now a cunt if you don't get the flu shot, cos you're probably going to spread it and somebody's granny is going to die.
Actually no, I don't care. As long as they don't stop me from attending gigs again and, y'know, being a somewhat equal member of society and all. Whatever that means.
Still around 60% of all COVID deaths in the US are in unvaccinated. Their contribution to the overall COVID mortality rate makes COVID the number 2 cause of death in the US at the moment, something which massively fuels those pushing for reintroduction of other measures. Without that 60%, COVID would "only" be the 8th or 9th ranked cause of death. Having no reason to believe otherwise, I guess in other countries the mortality rate among unvaccinated is similarly 8 to 10 times higher than in vaccinated. Certainly the only two people I know, one of our age, one in his 50s, who ended up in intensive care were unvaccinated.
Define unvaccinated. Then find out how many of those deaths were too infirm to receive a vaccine due to whatever else was wrong with them. Also define a covid death and convince me those numbers aren't open to manipulation.
Actually convince me of nothing, I'm entirely done with the whole thing as long as I'm left alone to do my bit in peace. I've nothing else to say about it really that can't already be found in this thread.
It's a tiny, tiny fraction of the ~30% of the population who are unvaccinated where genuine medical reasons are the explanation. Unvaccinated here means just that; having received no vaccine. Less than 5% of the ~30% who are unvaccinated declare any intention to get vaccinated. The COVID death numbers are all deaths "with" COVID, but that doesn't change the proportions or what they indicate.
In any case, all I was saying is that the panickers are now being skewed towards even more alarmism than necessary because of the still disproportional number of unvaccinated people dying. In a nutshell, the best thing anyone could do now in order to really get everyone to shut up about the whole thing, is to get vaccinated, since either it works and the mortality rate drops to less than half what it's at now, or else it doesn't work, the mortality rate doesn't go down, and the anti-vax brigade will have been right that vaccination didn't change anything BUT, by the same token, the panickers will also have been right that we "need" to enforce other measures as well. Personally, I'd be betting on the first outcome.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 14, 2022, 03:58:53 PMIt's a tiny, tiny fraction of the ~30% of the population who are unvaccinated where genuine medical reasons are the explanation. Unvaccinated here means just that; having received no vaccine. Less than 5% of the ~30% who are unvaccinated declare any intention to get vaccinated. The COVID death numbers are all deaths "with" COVID, but that doesn't change the proportions or what they indicate.
In any case, all I was saying is that the panickers are now being skewed towards even more alarmism than necessary because of the still disproportional number of unvaccinated people dying. In a nutshell, the best thing anyone could do now in order to really get everyone to shut up about the whole thing, is to get vaccinated, since either it works and the mortality rate drops to less than half what it's at now, or else it doesn't work, the mortality rate doesn't go down, and the anti-vax brigade will have been right that vaccination didn't change anything BUT, by the same token, the panickers will also have been right that we "need" to enforce other measures as well. Personally, I'd be betting on the first outcome.
Riddle me this, do you still wear your mask? And no not when you're forced to, do you wear it by choice?
Thing would've ended by itself anyway by now hopefully the vaccines did work but at this stage I wouldn't touch em with a gun to my head and I've probably had the bould covid 3 or 4 times if I'd bothered getting tested but I just went on as normal instead
I wear my mask as little as possible. I've never been a panicker over COVID and believed the vaccines were efficient against serious illness. So once those vaccines were easily available to everyone, well, at that point if people were preferring to run a 10x higher chance of ending up in intensive care or dead, that was on them, no need for everyone else to keep wearing masks everywhere. Don't see at all what my masking habits have to do with anything though. I'm not calling for reintroduction of measures, I'm saying what is true: those who are calling for it are regularly pointing to the still significant mortality figures, a large proportion of which are still in unvaccinated patients.
https://twitter.com/DeRossiBeard/status/1581210158319169536?t=kR68EWVIkKccnXSstKWIig&s=19
Nobody ever said it would stop transmission is a good one that's doing the rounds at the minute.
They are deleting all the videos, tweets etc they can of people saying it stopped transmission. The same is happening with clips / tweets of people saying the 2016 election was rigged / Russian collusion. Post 2020 it is now a threat to democracy to question elections but it was perfectly fine to do up until the 2020 election.
Yep, even Piers Morgan, odious fanny that he is, is backpedaling furiously.
Listening to that Jacinta Arden at the UN, between her, Trudeau, Klaus Schwab the fuckin' Bond villain and his Israeli henchman, it's a 'Brave New World', in the Huxlonian sense of the word, on the horizon.
These tits have devalued elements of language and twisted logic into such knots that 'misinformation' and 'free speech' have lost their meanings entirely. Eric Blair wrote that you are free to be a drunkard, an idler and a fornicator but it is strictly forbidden to think for yourself. Warnings have now become instruction manuals for these pigs. Nice one.
Quote from: astfgyl on October 15, 2022, 11:15:54 AMhttps://twitter.com/DeRossiBeard/status/1581210158319169536?t=kR68EWVIkKccnXSstKWIig&s=19
Nobody ever said it would stop transmission is a good one that's doing the rounds at the minute.
If you read the thread this was a reply to, you'll find some informative stuff from Balloux:
https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1580862532532985856
I did read it. I like Balloux he's been a voice of reason throughout but you have to admit the backtracking is pretty spectacular (not from Balloux) and I'm not aiming at the efficacy or lack thereof, just the bullshit and I've also no right to be in this thread because I'm actually not the worst of em when I stay away from it
All the BS peddled in order to get vaccine mandates and passports pushed through, that was all totally illegitimate. What Balloux shows, using his own tweets from back when as support, is that there was a transient effect on transmission at first, and it was this, rather than anything Pfizer, etc., claimed about results from their clinical trials, that governments jumped on and used to start making claims that went well beyond the science, especially when omicron came along.
It also stands to reason that if it prevented symptomatic covid that it would presumably do something around transmission but I think the passports and all that bollix was about something else altogether and if I had to take a stab at it now I'd say that was a test run and it'll all be back but for the climate or some other lark. Again I'm not even rubbishing the vaccines at all, I'd be far happier to think they work than not and I genuinely believe they were designed to succeed rather than fail. Might have even got one or two myself without the associated bullshit.
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/pfizer-executive-mutate-covid-via-directed-evolution-for-company-to-continue/
Pfizer executive, Jordon Trishton Walker went on to explain how Big Pharma and government officials, such as at the Food & Drug Administration [FDA], have mutual interests, and how that is not in the best interest of the American people
:laugh:
https://www.newsweek.com/project-veritas-covid-mutations-pfizer-fact-check-1776845
A fact check from newsweek :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah, it's all gas :laugh:
It is indeed considering how reliable we all know these fact checkers are. I can't see a lot of comments at the bottom of the link you posted that support this fact check either.
That is definitely Pfizer's director of research and development, whose name is definitely Jordan (or Jordon) Tristan (or Trishton) Walker. He doesn't seem to have any online presence prior to three days ago. But maybe he was just being careful. Even though that's the absolute opposite of what he's being in this video.
In the real world though, either Project Veritas are duping or they are being duped, I'd put money on one of those two options being the reality of this. And, either way, whoever is doing the duping, they know all that matters is that the idea will stick and spread fast and people who want it to be true won't even lift their little finger a millimetre to dig into its veracity.
Or, to echo Master Burger: :laugh:
Of course because there is no way his profile would be scrubbed once this got out. It's not as if things like this haven't been scrubbed before like the countless times we were told if you get vaccinated it stops the spread. You would also think Pfizer would have commented on it already if he didn't work for them. I wonder why Tristan also went into a rage after he was told he had been filmed? Who knows maybe his real profession is acting.
To be fair, I'm a bit of a cunt for telling earth-shattering conspiracies to complete randomers too. I'm more amazed than anyone that I could also reach a senior executive position with such a careless mouth. You'll also find no pictures of me on the internet from before three days ago. I just love telling strangers the secret goings on of my company, though. Will I never learn?
I know sure that excellent newsweek article you posted certainly changed my mind.
Good man. Keep it real, that's what I say.
Hello random stranger, here's all the shady shit my company is doing, but "Don't tell anyone. Promise you won't tell anyone"
Wait, does this mean Coronavirus is real after all?
Indeed I have never heard of someone talking about something they shouldn't after a few drinks especially on a date when they are trying to impress someone.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on January 27, 2023, 12:45:39 PMWait, does this mean Coronavirus is real after all?
Not sure what this has to do with the video we are discussing. The video has been up for two days so surely by now somebody would have come forth and exposed who Jordon Trishton Walker really is the video has after all had millions of views. Or at the very least Pfizer could have denied he ever worked for them.
If Pfizer had to employ people to deny every mental accusation thrown at them, surely they wouldn't have the time or resources to brew up Covid mutations?
No, hang on, I mean... shit. Don't tell anyone, please!!!
This is a lot more than a mental accusation, it has been posted by a well know journalist who has done this many times before on a wide range of topics and has been viewed by millions so it is perfectly reasonable to expect Pfizer to have come out with something by now.
But yeah it is much easier to believe that a company who made a profit of 22 billion in just 2021 doesn't have the time or money to put out a simple statement.
We all choose what we wish to believe, indeed.
Like Newsweek fact checkers?
I dunno, did you check the facts checked?
Quote from: mickO))) on January 27, 2023, 12:46:31 PMIndeed I have never heard of someone talking about something they shouldn't after a few drinks especially on a date when they are trying to impress someone.
Where does it day he's on a date?
Where does it day he's on a date?
[/quote]
He says it himself in the video where James O'Keefe confronts him in the restaurant and tells him he has been filmed.
https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1618435991211233282?cxt=HHwWhMDSvbG96_UsAAAA
Only screenshots but more stuff being released tonight.
"internal documents" = all stuff from various social media or messenging platforms
Only getting a chance to watch the video now. So, even if this guy is who it is claimed he is, the entire thing, the beginning, middle, and end of the claim boils down to, and I quote, "an idea that came up in a meeting [today]"? (timestamp: 3:02)
Earth shattering.
Edit: No, the video is worse than that. What it is (again, if yer man is genuinely who it's claimed he is) is a waste of a pretty powerful exposé of corruption in the regulatory system in the US. Which we all know about, but if (!) you have someone high up in Pfizer saying that this is part of their business model, then that's a great piece to add to the kind of case that ultimately brought Purdue down. What is not a great piece to add to that case is hare-brained suppositions about Pfizer intentionally releasing new variants of the virus as a business model.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkSIufkTJGw
Quote from: Bürggermeister on January 27, 2023, 11:05:22 AMhttps://www.newsweek.com/project-veritas-covid-mutations-pfizer-fact-check-1776845
https://youtu.be/nOLJ7yr1Ias
:laugh: :laugh:
It never ceases to amaze me how dim-witted Tim Pool is. He opens by claiming Newsweek came up with a misleading title (I don't really see how it's misleading, based on the original Project Veritas video) and that they did so precisely in order to gotcha Project Veritas. Which he then points out they precisely don't do. Bravo Tim, arguing both sides of a strawman against yourself. Didn't get any further than that. You need to look after your mind and avoid the Tim Pools of the world.
I am no fan of Tim Pool was just one of the first things that popped up when I opened youtube earlier and he made some good points on the original video while also pointing out the stupidity of the fact check article that Bürggermeister thought was so great. Plenty of others now have done videos on this today as well including Brand.
Seeing as this thread has been dragged out of retirement...
https://twitter.com/wolfetonedeaf/status/1618020237722681344
Oh, the cruel irony is lost on this lunatic of god's creation.
Ranting years ago in his truck about mask and movement restrictions, now leading masked protestors outside politician's offices and demanding people aren't allowed movement into the country!! He'd love a good lock down now I'd imagine :laugh:
Oh, and also complaining about the dangers to women here from unvetted "plantation" folk, whilst from the other side of his mouth he'sthreathening "murdering, genocidal" nurses (he obviously doesn't know any health professionals who had to work through the darker days and what they experienced).
You'd imagine the trucker lifestyle locked away in his cab so many hours a day isn't doing his mental health any good. You'd wonder what him and his ilk would cope if they didn't have a camera to pose in front of all the time.
Next time he lectures Gardaí saying "these are our streets" etc, they should physically lecture him that "these are our batons" and give him the fight he's loking for.
Quote from: mickO))) on January 27, 2023, 09:45:11 PMI am no fan of Tim Pool was just one of the first things that popped up when I opened youtube earlier and he made some good points on the original video while also pointing out the stupidity of the fact check article that Bürggermeister thought was so great. Plenty of others now have done videos on this today as well including Brand.
Where did I say it was great? I said it was gas, like the thing you posted. Like Tim Pool for you, it was the first thing which came up when I searched your project veritas hero 😁
Did you fact check the facts checked?
Quote from: Bürggermeister on January 28, 2023, 06:30:22 AMQuote from: mickO))) on January 27, 2023, 09:45:11 PMI am no fan of Tim Pool was just one of the first things that popped up when I opened youtube earlier and he made some good points on the original video while also pointing out the stupidity of the fact check article that Bürggermeister thought was so great. Plenty of others now have done videos on this today as well including Brand.
Where did I say it was great? I said it was gas, like the thing you posted. Like Tim Pool for you, it was the first thing which came up when I searched your project veritas hero 😁
Did you fact check the facts checked?
At least I watched the Tim Pool video before posting it you didn't read the Newsweek article before posting it and I highly doubt it was the first thing you found more like the only thing you could find in a desperate attempt to disprove this awful conspiracy theory.
Still no statement from Pfizer on Jordon. I guess they still haven't found the time or money to put one together.
At least Jordon hasn't lost his job yet
https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas/status/1619116856207622145?cxt=HHwWgoDSgfmMofgsAAAA
😂 Like the veritas guy, you also leap to conclusions rashly. I'll tell you my level of emotion involvement in this and then check out, because this shit is fucking tiring. I read the article you posted and, based on working in the medical industry for over 20 years and having been through FDA audits at least once every two years in that time, along with audits from every country my company sells into. Based on my experience, and my experience only, I concluded the guy who wrote the article hasn't a fucking clue how regulation works in the real world, and everything he wrote comes from the perspective of someone who thought he had uncovered the tinfoiler's wet dream. With that, in mind, I did a quick search saw the newsweek thing and chuckled merrily for a second, maybe two, and posted the link. Now here we are.
I don't give a fuck, personally, whether you believe that shit or not. It's some guy hoping his balls would be in another person's mouth, telling that person everything they wanted to hear. That's it 🙂
You responded to my original post within four minutes of me posting it. The link I posted has a long article and a 9 minute video. Indeed it is tiring because you haven't been able to argue any of the points I have made you just resorted to the usual "Oh so covid actually does exist now" crap. The amount of times you have replied to me about this on here shows you do care. If you didn't you would have just walked away after you posted the trustworthy fact check article.
So, is the fact check trustworthy or not, in your opinion? Tim Pool seems to want to take "unverifiable" as a win for his side. But if a win is to be claimed, that can only be on the basis of the "unverifiable" being trustworthy. And yet "unverifiable", and nothing more, is literally what the claim in question is. Emphasis on the "and nothing more," because much, much more is what the "journalist" (lol) from Project Veritas is adding to it. If the guy is really a Pfizer guy, then what I see in all these videos is a bungle of the highest order. Nothing said constitutes evidence of anything concrete and wouldn't hold water in any kind of trial proceeding whatsoever.
Fact checks in general are not trustworthy I think most people would agree on this but without even taking that into account the article itself in no way helps Bürggermeisters argument. He most likely saw it, read the headline and thought 'great ill show this conspiracy theorist ' then it backfired on him.
Quote from: mickO))) on January 28, 2023, 12:10:59 PMYou responded to my original post within four minutes of me posting it. The link I posted has a long article and a 9 minute video. Indeed it is tiring because you haven't been able to argue any of the points I have made you just resorted to the usual "Oh so covid actually does exist now" crap. The amount of times you have replied to me about this on here shows you do care. If you didn't you would have just walked away after you posted the trustworthy fact check article.
Ah jaysus, lad, you're down to checking post times? Here's what happened. I read a lot. I read quickly. I read the article. The article describes what happens in the video. I chose not to watch the video as a result. I chuckled. I posted a reply. After searching up on yer man, I edited the reply. I chuckled again. This site doesn't show edit information. To put your mind at rest, and since you won't believe me anyway, I am perfectly happy for Hambeast to provide you with the edit information, both times and content. If you would like, feel free to post that information here. Please, go for it.
After that, cancel my tenancy agreement in your head, for I have not paid the bill!
Peace out, yo!
Quote from: mickO))) on January 28, 2023, 02:20:06 PMFact checks in general are not trustworthy I think most people would agree on this
Hot air. You analyze things on a case-by-case basis, or else you're not analyzing at all.
Here's the conclusion of the fact-check in question:
QuoteIn the Project Veritas video, the interviewee, who is quoted as a Pfizer employee, says there are ongoing discussions about engineering "mutations" of COVID so that preemptive vaccines, for variants that may occur in nature, could be developed.
However, the discussions are spoken about in theoretical terms.
While Project Veritas' James O'Keefe claims that the interviewee moves on to talk about these experiments as if they are ongoing, there is not enough information in the film to be certain whether he is talking about theoretical experiments or other preliminary research, or if these directly involve or are related to COVID.
Having watched the videos, this strikes me as perfectly accurate. Even O'Keefe is careful to subtly couch things in the first video so as not to claim any more than this, but of course he knows the effect the video will have on his target audience, including other influential types (your Tucker Carlsons, Tim Pools, Russell Brands, etc.), and how it will be amplified by them. The fact check merely hammers home that the video is evidence of nothing concrete. Nothing at all.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on January 28, 2023, 02:39:14 PMAh jaysus, lad, you're down to checking post times? Here's what happened. I read a lot. I read quickly. I read the article. The article describes what happens in the video. I chose not to watch the video as a result. I chuckled. I posted a reply. After searching up on yer man, I edited the reply. I chuckled again. This site doesn't show edit information. To put your mind at rest, and since you won't believe me anyway, I am perfectly happy for Hambeast to provide you with the edit information, both times and content. If you would like, feel free to post that information here. Please, go for it.
After that, cancel my tenancy agreement in your head, for I have not paid the bill
Peace out, yo!
I am not checking post times I just happened to still be on the site when you first responded with the laughing icon on it's own and I knew then that you hadn't even looked at the link I posted in any great detail. I have no interest in seeing what posts you edited. I have clearly made my points on here over and over again since I posted this and you haven't been able to argue any of them which is why you resorted to the "Is Covid real" stuff.
It is quite obvious who is living rent free in who's head here. I just hope the article I posted that got you so upset hasn't ruined your weekend.
Either way, single-handedly blasting COVID back into the very forefront of the collective consciousness is certainly proving to be a successful business model for Project Veritas! :laugh:
https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1619138163196465152
Great to see people are donating. The video of the conversation with Jordon has already been removed by youtube so at least they can make up the revenue another way now.
Presumably because Project Veritas contravened any semblance of two-party consent. Which side are acting like Soviets again? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSzar6T3zJw
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-fda-removes-covid-test-requirements-pfizer-merck-pills-2023-02-01/
Not suspect at all.
Poor Pfizer can't catch a break the King of Thailand might be going after them now as well.
Sin comentarios.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/who-confirms-first-human-case-avian-influenza-ah5n2-mexico-2024-06-05/
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Who will fall for it all again?
Don't worry if it's you because you won't have to worry because the mrna shot will be ready imminently once the wealth transfer is set in place.
Just 2 weeks should flatten the curve until then as well so that's sorted, don't worry at all it's all in hand.
And yeah it's well tested, the whole lot of it lol fucking lol
Quote from: astfgyl on August 27, 2021, 03:29:00 PMI would say that's fair enough about the Derry Doctor, but then I would say the same should have been applied to the covid scaremongering doctors in 2020, telling people who were there for things unrelated to covid that they are now covid patients. Do you think she is lying? She has a lot to lose...
Anyway I've already said her testimony had no bearing whatsoever on my position, although the Roy Butler story made me take notice a bit, more because of the media coverage than the fact he died, because let's face it, a single death from a vaccine is not unheard of in any given year and is usually simply thought of as unlucky.
I apply a certain risk/benefit analysis to taking yokes as well and am happy with the extremely low level of deaths involved. Look at the papers when a few people died off the yokes that we were told not to take though compared to the papers when someone dies from the vaccine that the government are telling us to have. A few deaths is used to frighten us out of the bangers but written off as extremely low risk when it's a vaccine. And there is a buzz off the yokes as well which is very nice. I have also said here that my own reason for not taking it is not to do with safety issues and more of an exercise in how long I can continue to say no and still participate in society. So far I've been to the inside of the pub, the cinema, laser tag and bowling since the passports were introduced, so it's going ok so far.
Anyway, lightening things up a bit...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9ys7jWXsAQKOFS?format=jpg&name=small)
I had that written before your attempt to lighten things up. It must be a Friday thing!
Roy Butler. The best disinfectant is sunlight.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/waterford-soccer-player-23-died-five-days-after-covid-19-vaccine-from-catastrophic-brain-bleed/a1340519691.html
Nobody wanted to shine any light on anything while the rollout was in full swing though
Just read that indo piece, truly horrific.
Poor guy, must have been a terrifying experience for him to live through, not to mention the tragedy for his family.