Coronavirus

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

By the way, are you saying that vaccination leads to vaccination resistant variants? It looks like that is what you're saying, and that is an argument against vaccinating everyone in itself. - edit: because infection doesn't produce natural immunity resistant variants. Have a look how many reinfections have been recorded with any of the new variants in people who have already been infected and recovered.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying (from my understanding) that partial population vaccination can lead to vaccine resistant variants, in a way that you can think of as kind of analogous to starting an antibiotic treatment but not finishing it. It will also lead to variants that are not resistant to a given vaccine, but by principle such a virus will not be able to "emerge" across the population if enough of them are vaccinated with a vaccine which that variant is not resistant to. Partial population natural immunity via infection does produce the same effect, not only with COVID, but in general.

[The Butcher]

Sorry if this was already discussed but wasn't one of the potential advantages was if it evolves away the spike protein that the mrna vaccines use to fight it, it should become less infectious?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

"At the Nuremberg trials, the doctors and nurses stood trial...and they hung."

See why it's not a good idea to feed holocaust parallels?
https://twitter.com/marclister3k/status/1418907451190038533

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Your mate Reiner, the lawyer, was videoed in, to talk hyperbolic bollocks by the looks of things:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418928639433977856

Edit: That full thread of quotes from all the main speakers is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418915810416934915

If that's the cream of the protest discourse crop, David Icke, Katie Hopkins, some deranged ex-nurse...

[astfgyl]

Your mate Reiner, the lawyer, was videoed in, to talk hyperbolic bollocks by the looks of things:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418928639433977856

Edit: That full thread of quotes from all the main speakers is worth a look:
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1418915810416934915

If that's the cream of the protest discourse crop, David Icke, Katie Hopkins, some deranged ex-nurse...

Some awful lineup at that. Why do the 5G crowd have to be brought in for this shit? It isn't as if there is a lack of proper things to give out about. I'm surprised Fuellmich had any part in sharing the stage with the likes of those people. Bad move, Reiner. Here's a response that I identified with: https://twitter.com/runnytom/status/1418925242085486593 Of course you already know that I don't involve myself with all that bollocks anyway.

And here's something equal to any of the shit these lads are talking.. the bullshit comes from everywhere. Look at the state of the article, no source, no data, no fuck all only a stupid claim to make a headline.  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ministers-fear-coronavirus-could-spread-24609803

Then of course we have the fact-checks, which are basically laughable for the most part and yet that is supposed to be keeping us safe from misinformation. Check this one for example, about pfizer and their practices: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/19/fact-check-resolved-lawsuits-against-pfizer-alleged-marketing-fraud/4857499001/

Our rating: Partly false. So it's mostly true then. The misinformation is everywhere but it's not just the 5G crew it's coming from.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

And here's something equal to any of the shit these lads are talking.. the bullshit comes from everywhere. Look at the state of the article, no source, no data, no fuck all only a stupid claim to make a headline.  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ministers-fear-coronavirus-could-spread-24609803

Then of course we have the fact-checks, which are basically laughable for the most part and yet that is supposed to be keeping us safe from misinformation. Check this one for example, about pfizer and their practices: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/19/fact-check-resolved-lawsuits-against-pfizer-alleged-marketing-fraud/4857499001/

Our rating: Partly false. So it's mostly true then. The misinformation is everywhere but it's not just the 5G crew it's coming from.

These are both pretty weak come-backs, to be fair. The Mirror is a tabloid rag; improperly sourced sensationalist hype bullshit is their bread and butter. No matter what is happening in the world, you can be guaranteed to find bullshit in the tabloids, so it's not great evidence for "the bullshit comes from everywhere."

Then, the fact-check article concluding "Partly false" instead of "Mostly true", your remark on that point is fair enough. But the article itself goes into detail about the ways in which Pfizer have indeed been massive big pharma monsters in the past, and personally I wish more had been done to take the vaccine patents away from all the big pharma groups. But softening the conclusion after presenting the evidence, dishonest as that may be, is nothing like what the "5G crew" do, which is present a load of nonsense, then carve a conclusion from it in stone. And, as the fact-check thing does crucially conclude, the initial claim they describe as "partly false" absolutely is irrelevant to the question of whether the Pfizer COVID vaccine is safe and/or effective. The claim being combated was doing much worse than saying "partly false" instead of "mostly true." The bottom-line of the claim being fact-checked (trusting Pfizer with your "babies" https://www.instagram.com/p/COIlgLKHN6h/ ) is not "partly false"; it has no logic to it. It's "not even false."

[astfgyl]

I hadn't seen the original post as I don't go on instagram. I had heard of the massive settlement a long way back and checked on google at the time with no mention of babies or anything (although I wouldn't be lining up my own kids to try it out). Actually that post is pretty funny as the text underneath says "fact-check this", which resulted in a fact-check to iron out the creases in the claim, so to be fair they really were asking for it and got a very detailed checking as a result. So I'm going to concede that one was fair enough and a deserved slap on the wrist for the creator.

I can understand the frustration of people constantly reading shite claims with no source and listening to the likes of that idiot ex-NHS nurse (who thankfully I'd never heard of) in the same way I can feel my own frustration at the media bollix like that fart story that was in the Mirror and I agree with your assessment of the tabloid rags. It is awful to be someone with genuine skepticism of the way this has all been handled and have done ridiculous amounts of reading and doing my own looking at things and then get lumped in with that shite. I'd almost think that the UK government would be rubbing their hands at those knobs talking obvious shite on stage and I can't understand how thinking things are wrong gets anyone to that next step, y'know saying don't believe the media lies etc and then coming on with all that stuff as if it has any basis in anything. I'd be embarrassed to be listening to that stuff and wouldn't even put it over in the conspiracy thread. It's awful and I agree with you about it being worthy of ridicule to the extent that even old Reiner Fuellmich has gone down a bit in my estimation by having anything to do with it. I have also met people who are doubtful like myself and seen that the seed of that stuff has been planted in their minds and I don't think any of it is like that.

Do I think covid is being used as a Trojan Horse? I do. Do I think 5G has anything to do with it? I don't. Do I think Covid exists? I do. Do I think it is being overplayed severely? I do. Do I think the test gives dubious results? Yes. Do we know where covid came from? No. Do we know how it spreads? No. Do we know the vaccines will work? Not yet. Do I think they are designed for a purpose other than as advertised? No. Do I think they might harm people? Possibly, but not intentionally. Do I believe in lockdowns and other NPI's? I did, but now we have plenty of evidence that they don't work and now we will probably never know. Am I going to take the vaccine? Not as of yet, but if the problems becoming apparent with the technology get ironed out and it proves to be as effective as claimed, I might. Do I believe this has all been done wrong, even if it was with the best of intentions? Yes. Do I think it should be given to kids? No, it needs far more research first. Do I believe in segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people? No, I think it's wrong, and especially if the vaccines work. Would I tell someone not to take a vaccine? I wouldn't. Do I wear the mask and wash my hands and respect other people's wishes regarding social distancing etc? Absolutely, and as Ochoill was saying about the wedding we were at, I was indeed the only one wearing the mask because I was unsure of the rules and didn't want to upset anyone or make them feel uncomfortable. I'm clarifying all of this because I wish to distance myself entirely from what was being said on that stage in London. I also feel that nobody should be taking a vaccine for social reasons, yet that is what is happening and I see it every day of the week.

I have been following the science as best I can during this and I have indeed been caught out by many bad claims to the extent I have also become skeptical of the skeptics and arguing with yourself over it all has admittedly helped point in that direction. It's a real shitshow from all sides and while I still think that some of the claims warrant a second look, I do file the stuff going on at that protest under the ridiculous header without even getting into it. I still wouldn't trust governments or massive corporations as far as I'd throw them but that isn't since covid, that was all along and I haven't seen anything to change my mind about that yet, despite the bullshit from the opposition. Those people talking on that stage would be useful idiots as I understand the term, as anyone sane should run from what they say. There are plenty of decent sources out there which stick to following the science, and indeed the politics.

Here's an interesting little interactive piece I came across which is closer to the idea I have in my head than anything too far out: https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/ I still think some far out things are already happening as a result. The web of lobbying and funding is where I feel a lot of the answers to the seemingly nonsensical stuff might be found.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Speaking of tabloids though (I'll read that last post of yours later in the day), the deranged ex-nurse's own son has been mobilized to speak out against her:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-54669239

Gonna need Trisha or Jeremy Kyle to sort this out!

[astfgyl]

Aye, she is fucking deranged, no doubt about it.

[astfgyl]

I haven't changed my stance or anything, but I do believe informed consent and freedom of choice are very important things and are values which must be upheld. So I give you one of those "anti-vaxxers" who was on the stage in London talking shite...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u34rnwBnll4

The bullshit from all sides must be called out. Mandates and coercion are still the work of the devil though. There is enough real stuff to complain about without these useful idiot cunts taking the proverbial 30 pieces of silver

[astfgyl]

Here is the counterpoint to the likes of piers corbyn..

https://brownstone.org/articles/a-framework-for-understanding-pathogens-explained-by-sunetra-gupta/

..edit: well fuck me, here's the insanity coming for the aussies.. https://twitter.com/RebelNewsOnline/status/1421640437459267584
Yes, this is indeed lunacy. Convince me otherwise. Nobody is this stupid, not in real life.

Anyone waking up to the smell of shit yet? I'll bet rakes of ye are but won't admit it because ye need to double down on the initial investment of nothing to see here. well don't worry the smell of shit isn't going away anytime soon

3 days lockdown will achieve what? Answers on a postcard to the lord of lies please

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Out of curiosity, the fact that Australia is possibly only behind New Zealand in terms of deaths per million, do you think that is "thanks" to their policies? Or do you think things have been massaged to only make it look like the countries that implemented the harshest measures came out of this whole thing best?

I know a 3-day lockdown seems ridiculous, and maybe it is, but the rise in cases in Australia in the last week or so is the only really significant rise in cases they've seen since this time last year. But, incidentally, the Western Australia district implemented a 5-day strict lockdown end of January this year. It was lifted after five days. Then end of March, Brisbane announced a 3-day lockdown. It was lifted after three days. If you look at the timeline, you'll see that this kind of short, sharp lockdown has been an integral part of Australia's response to clusters throughout 2021, so if you want to know what it may achieve, you've only to look back through and see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia


Edit: Other Australian news I just stumbled upon -
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/aug/01/sky-news-australia-banned-from-youtube-for-seven-days-over-covid-misinformation

[astfgyl]

I must find you the one where the CDC was flagged as false information when they announced they were withdrawing one of the current PCR tests from FDA approval, to be replaced by a multiplex one which differentiates between influenza and covid. The announcement is on the CDC website. (https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html) Lots of people misunderstood the meaning and now it's being flagged as false information, even though it's there for all to see as actual info. The fact-checking has long since gotten out of hand so it's no surprise Sky News Australia have been banned.

Remember last year when Australia was one of the sticks that the zero covid crowd used to beat everyone with? Yeah it didn't work, basically. Look at the lad announcing the 3 day lockdown he's like some sort of religious zealot and nobody can be that stupid to think 3 days lockdown is a possibility, juust as we should never have fell for the 3 weeks to flatten the curve. Even the vaccinated people should be able to see this shit for the shit it is at this stage. I have of course been following what Australia has been doing over the last year with the short sharp lockdowns and those lockdowns are getting longer and more blunt just like everywhere else. 3 days to flatten the curve! Ah come on.

It puts the lotion in the basket, it takes the vaccine or it gets more lockdowns, if it doesn't volunteer for the injections it gets them mandated. It would be funny if it wasn't so fucked up.
Here, read this if you haven't already and look at the timing https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/default/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf. Coincidence of course.

I have a pdf of the pfizer trial data as well which I was reading in the interest of following the science https://media.tghn.org/medialibrary/2020/11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020_Pfizer_BioNTech.pdf

It doesn't look as brilliant as advertised so far.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

But, again, what's the big picture you're driving at? If it's not because they think they are useful, why do Australia keep on implementing these short, sharp restrictions? They've done it several times in the last few months, in several different districts. You say the stated reason is nonsense. So then, what is the real reason? What is the real reason to repeatedly do this short-term thing, according to you? Because they started long before the vaccine was even available, and Australia has a shortage of vaccines also, a supply rather than demand problem: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/15/australian-government-scales-back-supply-projections-for-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine
So it can't be a "Take the vaccine!" stick, or not a very effective one, since the vaccines aren't there, not enough of them anyway. Plus, as I just pointed out, all the previous 3- and 5-day lockdowns in Australia were just that, not Trojan horses to announce much longer ones. Maybe they work, maybe they don't, but they have been what they were described on the tin as.

There's lots of flags to shoot at, fine. But making out those flags are actually foundational bricks of a bigger story, when clearly they are just random flags blowing in the chaotic wind, that's on another level.

[astfgyl]

My guess is that the governments jumped at a crazy contract for the vaccines (read a leak of the one between Pfizer and Albania IIRC, (also Brazil) I'll dig it out, Follow it from here https://twitter.com/eh_den/status/1419653002818990085 and make up your own mind whether it's real or not) as the way out and now will have to keep the lockdowns going until enough people take it and accept the vaccine passport (lobbying is powerful).

I find it the most amazing thing that countries aren't expanding hospital capacity. In the beginning it was said it would take too long but by now would be well on the way there or could have specifically trained staff for the treatment of covid and nothing else but no it's still the lockdowns until everyone takes the shot. Do you think it's sheer coincidence that the roadmap to vaccine passports is on the EU website since 2018? And now all the governments are acting like it's a novel idea for a novel virus..

I did clarify at length how I am at odds with the conspiracy crowd but doing my own research a lot I find more and more wrong things. I linked this already but it's worth a look if you missed it https://www.statnews.com/feature/prescription-politics/federal-full-data-set/. I feel that's closest to what is after happening and now the only exit plan is taking the vaccine or governments will be fucked. I actually think it's an understandable position after everyone shat the togs initially and if I were the government I'd do the same. So as regards conspiracies, I don't think there's one big one either, just a lot of opportunism going on and hard hard lobbying because the passports will be the ultimate moneymaker for the pharma companies. Regarding the scaling back of the Astrazeneca shot, that's probably because of the ridiculous side effects which are becoming apparent and weren't flagged in the initial trials (the AZ one is particularly bad so far). Don't think for a minute that something else won't be scaled up in its' place. It's also interesting that moderna had the vaccine in development prior to the declaration of the pandemic, but I'll have to get into that in more detail before I stick it on here.

The anti crowd are shitehawks too though, no doubt about that. Sure look at the video of the anti vax lad taking the 10 grand for his soul that I posted yesterday. In fact that shit on the London stage was like a splash of cold water to the face for me and I'm being extra careful since not to be associating with that shit. If one wants to get into conspiracy theories here's a good start https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/pais/research/csgr/green/foresight/scienceinnovation/green_future_trends_series_-_rockefeller_foundation.pdf. This scenario called Lock Step is one of the most prescient things I've ever seen and while nobody can predict a pandemic, the response can be pre planned well in advance. It looks like most countries read the script from this 2010 scenario but that isn't how I see it exactly. The moneymen read the script and lobbied like fuck for it would be my guess. Funnily enough there's also a scenario for a potential "cyber pandemic" in there too.

Here's the fact check for that one, which does its' very best to distract from the fact that the document exists by beginning with the craziest conspiracy stuff possible before going on to confirm the existence of the document (which would be the actual meat in the sandwich) and has a link to it in there. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/14/fact-check-operation-lockstep-covid-19-conspiracy-theory/6567231002/ Of course it doesn't take a genius to work out that the fact check is pure obfuscation because it's better to discredit the idea of a pre planned response than anyone thinking it might not be random chance that the world went for the same weird policies at once.

I do agree with your assertion that most of it is random though all the same and I'm presenting the Lockstep scenario to maybe show how so many people end up thinking it's a masterplan,  given what is written, who is behind it and who is driving world policies through lobbying.