Coronavirus

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

https://twitter.com/teapleasebob1/status/1314527590447751168/photo/1

Some might fnd this interesting but wholly unsurprising.

Q please bob - Catholic, Irish, and sceptical of everything globe related. Climate change denier and Covid19 denier.

Ah yeah, I'd say that lad knows how PCRs work alright.

Related profile recommendations; Ivor Cummins and...Grand Torino! What lovely company.

Get your stories straight man. Your strongest narrative is that we don't need to shut down everything just because there is an explosion of overall cases, and that instead we need to focus our attention only on capacity of the health services and percentage of critical to fatal cases. Your weakest narrative - which completely undermines your ability to be persuasive with the first - is that "they" are trying to make us believe there are more cases than there really are via technical means that neither you nor Ivor Cummins nor this latest clown know anything about. This, "if it weren't for the test, we wouldn't have even noticed the excess deaths in March" type horseshit. "Covid19 deniers" are not what are needed. Covid19 pragmatists is what's bloody needed.

[astfgyl]

I don't know who Grand Torino is. I think Ivor Cummins has some interesting things to point out, and none of them involve it not being noticed as a massive spike in March/April. That scenario was entirely of my own imagination and Cummins would disagree very strongly with that. He comes from a different angle altogether. You should check out a few of his analyses of the data available and I don't think you would write him off so quickly. Unfortunately, the fella who got the FOI request answer also says there on the sidebar that he is a climate change denier, which is regrettable and also has plenty of the full conspiracy theorist crowd in the responses. It's a pity I couldn't have simply linked the letter but the answer to the request remains the same. Case of playing the ball and not the man here with this one. My original interest in looking into the case explosion was inspired by a gut feeling and by Carl Heneghan. Heneghan says over about 30 is not worth thinking about, HSE says 40-45. Would you agree with Heneghan on that one?

The answer to the weakest narrative part is not a "they" thing. Testing is worth serious money for the facilities who perform them and for the manufacturers of said tests. There is the simple answer and how those results are applied is of no consequence to those performing them as long as the money rolls in. That's my assessment of that. You rightly point out that I know not a lot about how PCR works, but as you often advised me before in this very thread, I'm doing my research! The real issue here with that is that very little of the decision makers know how it works either, and so see a positive result as simply another case. I think that when someone has symptoms and a good pre-test probability, that the PCR at a lower CT value can be perfectly well used to confirm diagnosis and give a clear picture of "cases". I'm sure you would agree with that.

Your strongest narrative is that we don't need to shut down everything just because there is an explosion of overall cases, and that instead we need to focus our attention only on capacity of the health services and percentage of critical to fatal cases.

That was what I was getting at in posting the FOI response. I reckon we agree on that. I think I'm arriving at pragmatism in coming to that realisation excepting a few diversions and rabbit holes along the way.

Edit: Here is someone who is not a denier, and the treatment of him for criticising lockdown is terrible. People like this fella are speaking out and have experience of dealing with covid patients, and are being silenced in a terrible fashion. It is this sort of thing which really worries me. No one must criticise on pain of removal from their job. It is just all wrong

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/limerick-doctor-who-spoke-at-anti-mask-rally-remains-defiant-1.4375953?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[ochoill]

Gran Torino is a tool, that tweet came from a bad auld camp in general and I wouldn't even believe it until someone without an agenda brings it up - these are the exact crowd that are only entertaining an anti-mask stance to lure in and bump up numbers at fash rallies unfortunately.  The same crowd that are anti-mask until one of them needs to wear a mask while cracking a woman across the back of the head with a 2x4 wrapped in the Irish flag.  Woeful cunts, in other words.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The answer to the weakest narrative part is not a "they" thing. Testing is worth serious money for the facilities who perform them and for the manufacturers of said tests. There is the simple answer and how those results are applied is of no consequence to those performing them as long as the money rolls in. That's my assessment of that. You rightly point out that I know not a lot about how PCR works, but as you often advised me before in this very thread, I'm doing my research! The real issue here with that is that very little of the decision makers know how it works either, and so see a positive result as simply another case. I think that when someone has symptoms and a good pre-test probability, that the PCR at a lower CT value can be perfectly well used to confirm diagnosis and give a clear picture of "cases". I'm sure you would agree with that.

You yourself posted the quote from Leo saying that maybe we need to be paying more attention to hospitalizations and fatalities and less attention to overall cases. That shift, however, needs to be encouraged in a way that keeps the baby firmly wrapped in the bath towel as it throws out the bathwater of panic over case numbers. Claiming that the number of PCR cycles is giving a false impression of the number of overall cases is two things, and this bit is important in terms of policy and strategy. So, it's 1) extremely difficult to argue in a way that is both digestible to the masses and not over-simplified nonsense to scientists who disagree (for example, risk of false negatives with clinical PCR application is much higher than risk of false positives, regardless of number of cycles, being the number 1 thing those pushing this narrative never mention). Then, even more strategically important, it's 2) a moot point as soon as public attention and policy-driving focus is successfully shifted away from the number of overall cases and onto the number of hospitalizations and fatalities.

You really need to take a minute, put parentheses around these ideas of "it's all just about labs making money", and reflect on why the entire PCR doubt is a moot point with regards to how to deal with the pandemic, if and when overall case numbers are no longer the bottom line driving policy. And, I believe, once you've really thought about it, you'll stop paying attention to and stop talking about supposed problems with the PCR testing method.

[Ollkiller]

Gran Torino is a tool

He's a fucking gobshyte of the highest order. Wrapping himself in the Irish flag using the nationalism card whilst having served in the British army. Blocks anyone who disagrees with him. Doesn't like facts apparently...

[astfgyl]

The answer to the weakest narrative part is not a "they" thing. Testing is worth serious money for the facilities who perform them and for the manufacturers of said tests. There is the simple answer and how those results are applied is of no consequence to those performing them as long as the money rolls in. That's my assessment of that. You rightly point out that I know not a lot about how PCR works, but as you often advised me before in this very thread, I'm doing my research! The real issue here with that is that very little of the decision makers know how it works either, and so see a positive result as simply another case. I think that when someone has symptoms and a good pre-test probability, that the PCR at a lower CT value can be perfectly well used to confirm diagnosis and give a clear picture of "cases". I'm sure you would agree with that.

You yourself posted the quote from Leo saying that maybe we need to be paying more attention to hospitalizations and fatalities and less attention to overall cases. That shift, however, needs to be encouraged in a way that keeps the baby firmly wrapped in the bath towel as it throws out the bathwater of panic over case numbers. Claiming that the number of PCR cycles is giving a false impression of the number of overall cases is two things, and this bit is important in terms of policy and strategy. So, it's 1) extremely difficult to argue in a way that is both digestible to the masses and not over-simplified nonsense to scientists who disagree (for example, risk of false negatives with clinical PCR application is much higher than risk of false positives, regardless of number of cycles, being the number 1 thing those pushing this narrative never mention). Then, even more strategically important, it's 2) a moot point as soon as public attention and policy-driving focus is successfully shifted away from the number of overall cases and onto the number of hospitalizations and fatalities.

You really need to take a minute, put parentheses around these ideas of "it's all just about labs making money", and reflect on why the entire PCR doubt is a moot point with regards to how to deal with the pandemic, if and when overall case numbers are no longer the bottom line driving policy. And, I believe, once you've really thought about it, you'll stop paying attention to and stop talking about supposed problems with the PCR testing method.

I think your assessment of all of that as a moot point probably right. The pre-test probability thing was in the article from The Lancet I was reading. My point about the test is not that it doesn't work, or even about the false negatives or positives. It's more that the results can be interpreted as anything one wants to interpret them as. ICU will be full, deaths will increase, lockdown part 2 is already underway. All of that is inevitable, so I'm going to say that we are in agreement on which metrics are important for it all and we are only arguing the toss for the sake of it. We all have the same access to the same information on it, I have no interest in finding out who Gran Torino is, and if I stay looking at all of this I will only end up there eventually finding out anyway. I see that most of the stats are numberwang anyway and no one here knows any more than anyone else about it all. I've done my research, I've drawn my own conclusion and I'm only torturing myself going into it any more, as I can't change how the outside world reacts to it all, only how I do. So I'll look forward to arguing the toss in some other threads for a bit, as this is only getting my head melted. I will have to try take the Gandhi route and be the change I wish to see in the world. The only sensible thing here for me is to step away from this thread until something new or different happens because I'm here arguing it out with yourself and we seem to actually be in broad agreement when it comes down to it regarding the things that should be responded to, i.e. ICU capacity and deaths. Can't change years of the health service being decimated, can't change the hype, can't change RTE and the rest of the propaganda machine. I give up.

[Pedrito]

https://youtu.be/rz_Z7Gf1aRE

[Necr0rceN]

Over 1000+ cases today lads, we're all fucked!

[astfgyl]

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-who-backflips-on-virus-stance-by-condemning-lockdowns/news-story/f2188f2aebff1b7b291b297731c3da74

This is new. No comment from me either way.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Yep, I got sent to that Dr Johnny Bananas article last week too.
Looking forward to Big Donnie getting his next term and going after these tech-tards.....


https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/12/why-has-google-censored-the-great-barrington-declaration/

[astfgyl]

I just googled it, and it's on the first page. It is, however, buried underneath many articles which are disparaging towards it. Make of that what one will.

Edit: but wait, clicking the link returns "500 Internal Server Error". Tried on DuckDuckGo and it gives me an archive from the wayback machine. Maybe it's getting popular? Or something..?

Edit 2: Seems to be site maintenance or such like, it's mostly working now. I still think it's going to be a case of pissing into the wind though as there are a lot of reputations staked on the opposite assessment of the situation, so the push back should be fairly strong.

Personally I've pretty much stopped chasing this particular rabbit, and it might be time to simply sit back and eat the popcorn.

[astfgyl]

Ok, I got sick of the popcorn and also sick of the shit I'm being fed by the government....

On Wednesday 2nd Sept 2020 there were 29,114 cases and 1,777 deaths.

Today, 14th Oct 2020 there are 45,243 cases and 1,835 deaths.

Now we are supposed to go back into hiding and stay away from everyone.

Do the maths there: From the first instance I've mentioned there to the second, there has been 16,129 cases, and 58 deaths. Sound like a pandemic or second wave to anyone here with half a brain? No it fucking doesn't. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

What in the actual fuck is going on?!!

Edit: and let's not forget that some of those deaths are "with" and not "from" covid 19. You take a heart attack or get rolled over by a steamroller it doesn't matter as long as positive for C19, you died of that.

[Giggles]

Frustrating, isn't it.

[Kurt Cocaine]

I'm going about my business as normal and phuck any cunt that gets in my way. They've stolen enough of our lives already. We've done what they asked earlier in the year and still the grinding mill of authoritarianism groans on and on and on and on....
I live in a border county and I'll visit whoever I like, have visit me whoever wants to and go where the hell i want to. Fuck any cop or politician who trys to stop me or say I can't. Fuck off!

[Giggles]

You'd best not ask questions about Canada's "isolation camps"

https://youtu.be/3yyKczzyLoU