Coronavirus

[Blackout]

What's worse is that hospitals are prioritising anti- vaxxers over people with illnesses out if their control.  You'd really get more uptick of vaccinations if people where told they wouldn't be put in ICU over somebody who genuinely needs it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

It'd be nice to think so, but I'm not entirely convinced myself. People still not getting vaccinated seem to think they run zero risk of falling seriously ill, so there's very little wiggle room for reasoning with them. Still, I agree it would have been better if Austria had proposed a measure like that rather than lockdown. Objectively, I suppose the fact that they haven't reveals some level of remaining humanitarianism to the health system in the west, but at what cost? Ah, the eternal questions!

[Bigmac]

I don't suppose anyone here has a subscription to the Business Post to get the gist of what they're on about here in the rest of the article? I can only see the first couple of paragraphs:

https://www.businesspost.ie/coronavirus/acquired-immunity-among-unvaccinated-will-gradually-cause-drop-in-cases-nphet-advisor-says-2a4ddc31

I'd imagine there's a lot more to it than can be garnered from those snippets.

[Giggles]

People still not getting vaccinated seem to think they run zero risk of falling seriously ill, so there's very little wiggle room for reasoning with them.

I know of at least 15 people who got covid and (apart from the loss of taste and smell) described it as a mild cold.
Those 15 people have an active lifestyle, swim in the ocean most days all year round and have good diets. No underlying conditions, maybe one of them had asthma.

If they've already had it and didn't end up in ICU, or anywhere near it, what's the point in forcing them to get the injection?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

People like that aren't the main point. Bringing them up is diverting attention from the main point, i.e. those unvaccinated who, despite thinking they ran zero risk, are ending up in ICU and/or dead from COVID.

In Ireland can you get the health pass with proof of recent recovery from COVID? You can in France. I know some countries have said "vaccine no matter what", but the overbearing problem is still the unvaccinated who are at risk. Who exactly are they? Nobody, least of all themselves, can say for absolutely sure until and if they fall seriously ill. This last consideration is really key to grasp.

[pete]

Yes you can get the cert based on recovery in Ireland. It lasts 6 months.

[Nazgûl]

I know of at least 15 people who got covid and (apart from the loss of taste and smell) described it as a mild cold.
Those 15 people have an active lifestyle, swim in the ocean most days all year round and have good diets. No underlying conditions, maybe one of them had asthma.

If they've already had it and didn't end up in ICU, or anywhere near it, what's the point in forcing them to get the injection?

Read this earlier, written by a respiratory consultant for the NHS.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin?utm_source=instagram&utm_campaign=DrAnonletter

"But the story is different on our intensive care unit. Here, the patient population consists of a few vulnerable people with severe underlying health problems and a majority of fit, healthy, younger people unvaccinated by choice."

How people don't understand this yet is beyond me. Just get the fucking shot.

[Giggles]

I've explained that they've already had covid and were grand, why are you comparing them to people in ICU? Are you concerned that they may still end up in ICU?

I'm interested in seeing the report that states that the majority of those currently in ICU are young fit and healthy.

Even if you are not worried about your own risk from Covid, you cannot know the risk of the people into whose faces you may cough; there is a dangerous and selfish element to this that I find hard to stomach.

What the fuck is this even about? Are they suggesting that an unvaccinated person can spread covid but a vaccinated person can't? Because we all know that's not true.
I linked a report about a week ago that stated that a vaccinated person can carry the same amount of viral load as an unvaccinated person.

Hopefully that anonymous doctor who wrote that article isn't the same NHS worker that was accused of lying about hospital admissions https://www.rt.com/uk/539687-nhs-covid-patients-fake-news/

Why be anonymous anyway? It's not as if they're saying anything controversial, they're just stating the facts right?

[open face surgery]

"Breakthrough infections."

Similar language as used in Dopesick.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I saw that NHS worker statement this morning and knew it wasn't going to be helpful, given how the positions are staked out.

As I tried to explain to you Giggles, given that in the elderly populations almost 100% of individuals are fully vaccinated in most European countries, so the unvaccinated ending up in ICU are pretty much necessarily younger. I showed you the Irish stats a page or two back, and these are repeated in every country in Europe. Here's data from the Netherlands spelling it out, but it's there to be read from the data for Ireland too:
https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/unvaccinated-covid-19-patients-in-hospital-nearly-20-years-younger-than-vaccinated-patients

Look at this graph from it here:


In the first three age groups, there are significantly more unvaccinated than vaccinated general hospital admissions. This only switches in the 70+ group, since in that group you have a vanishingly small number of unvaccinated (bear in mind that, hypothetically, if exactly 100% of a population was vaccinated then logically 100% of the hospital admissions from that age group would also be vaccinated, no matter how many or few of them there were, right?). So, even in the 12-29 group, you have significantly more unvaccinated ending up in hospital. This is even more marked in the 30-49 group. And underlying conditions don't matter, because these will be proportionately spread across both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Nobody's saying this data is easy to understand. Or rather, no, people misinterpreting it are saying it's easy to understand but actually systematically getting it arse ways, just like the chief of the NHS got it arse ways... once.



And yeah, I spotted that too Matt, except I guessed that "breakthrough pain" was maybe inspired by "breakthrough infection", which is a term that has been used for a long, long time, going back to at least 1987:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22breakthrough+infection%22&size=50

[Giggles]

You have explained it a few times and I still didn't get it, which is why I didn't respond the last two times. I'm not here to prove a point, because I've got no definitive point to prove. I'm just asking questions, so I'm not going to argue with something I don't fully understand.

But I do understand your angle, being pissed off at people who are taking up ICU beds because you feel that they have been misinformed.

I'm pissed off because myself and people I know who've already had covid, and who don't have the injection, are being treated as second class citizens, and are still somehow being viewed as "selfish super spreaders".

Those of you who say "just get the jab and get on with it" - when do you think this will end?

I've asked this question a few times already and to no response. Let's imagine everybody in the country gets the injection - then what? Keep wearing masks until when? Covid doesn't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon.

And where the fuck is Astfgyl? I hope he isn't in ICU 

[Bigmac]

And where the fuck is Astfgyl?

I was actually only wondering that this evening myself. I was enjoying a lot of the back and forth stuff he was contributing to on here a while back.

[Kurt Cocaine]

He said he was going to knock this Corona Virus codology on its head as his mind was starting to suffer with h it all.
He's no doubt had his fill of all this Libs he's picked this season and thought; "fuck the world".... 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Let's imagine everybody in the country gets the injection - then what? Keep wearing masks until when? Covid doesn't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon.

This an enormous moot point until it happens. And it doesn't look like it's likely to happen anytime soon, if ever, due to rampant misinformation. Bigmac posted an article above there which is coming back with the herd immunity thing, maybe that will become reality.

But I do agree that a worrying amount of people have become all too comfortable with the idea of a perpetually masked society, something that doesn't sit well with me at all. My mask is off at the slightest opportunity I find and on at the very last second it has to be. It's funny though, couple of years ago the hottest "big brother is watching you" narrative involved CCTV cameras in the streets being used for facial recognition tracking of citizens' movements. Governments have properly shot themselves in the foot with the masks if they were behind that idea!

[Caomhaoin]

I was in Montenegro in August, not a mask to be seen anywhere except by the resort staff where I was staying. The guests? Not a fuckin' hope. Came in via Croatia and they were all EU pole up the hole about it.

A reluctant yes to vaccinations, a non-colonised-by-the-EU-parts of the balkans attitude towards masks.