Coronavirus

[pete]

Now that you have had it, would you take the vaccine yourself or hope that your immune system has developed a response from it and take your chances?

Once it's been tested and proven safe I'd have no problem getting it, because it is absolutely something I never want to go through again. Talking to my GP whole back and they were saying the most recent research is showing that there is no long-term immunity developing after having it, with the numbers of people getting it a second time constantly rising

Yeah any reports from people who suffered with it I read sound awful.

And that's before you get to the first hand reports from doctors and nurses and what they experienced in the hospitals.

I'll take anything to get the pubs open 

I think the mainstream media gets too much blame when people don't like the information.

[astfgyl]

Just a couple of remarks on the Ireland lockdown versus Sweden without lockdown thing; 1) Sweden does have a statistically significantly higher death rate than Ireland. 2) A large part of this, by their own admission, is because they didn't do enough to specifically protect vulnerable populations (retirement homes, etc.). 3) Not to shit on the Irish too much, but I'm strongly convinced that a policy of personal responsibility à la Sweden applied in Ireland would have had as consequence a huge increase in cases; pubs and bars staying open, population on less of a state of alert. Maybe not 11 times higher death rate (and Prof O'Neill seems a bit of a gombeen with his made up projections), but potentially several times more. Impossible to know for sure, but that would be my feeling on Ireland without draconian measures; I don't trust us not to take something lightly if given the choice (which in itself is a reflection of things I love about us as a people too, not just a blanket criticism).

I was saying the same about the Irish way back in this thread and you are right about that, the Swedes are much more likely to heed advice.

Now that you have had it, would you take the vaccine yourself or hope that your immune system has developed a response from it and take your chances?

Once it's been tested and proven safe I'd have no problem getting it, because it is absolutely something I never want to go through again. Talking to my GP whole back and they were saying the most recent research is showing that there is no long-term immunity developing after having it, with the numbers of people getting it a second time constantly rising

I was looking into those reports of reinfection and indeed they are rising all the time. So far it seems that those getting it twice aren't getting it with any severity the second time, although it isn't clear whether they were severe or mild the first time so that would need looking into. Hopefully it's the case that some degree of immune response is bookmarked in those who have contracted it.

[astfgyl]

I've been watching more videos of Carl Heneghan's advice given in the Seanad, and am amazed at how it has seemingly been completely disregarded. It's like "let's get an expert in for advice" and then "let's forget all of what he just said". Indeed, looking at the response of the senators sitting there, it's as if they have no interest before it even gets going.

I would highly recommend watching them.

Here's one and the rest can be followed on from it. You might like this one, Pete, as it relates to the pubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtjY2N0I__0

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

There really are a vanishingly small number of confirmed reinfection cases. A couple of easy to digest considerations on that dimension here anyway:
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-reinfection-what-it-actually-means-and-why-you-shouldnt-panic-144965

[astfgyl]

That is very similar to the stuff I have been reading, that one simply doesn't get as sick the second time. Not that any of that matters to the headline-readers. I concede that it is in the very early stages though so I don't want it to come across that I'm saying somebody definitely won't get very sick the second time, just that it appears unlikely so far.

[Juggz]

But they're still very capable of passing it on to someone who might not be quite so robust, right?

[astfgyl]

Yes, but isn't that ......... Fuck it, I'll take that one on the chin. 

Of course I'm not questioning the fact that there is a coronavirus that can kill people in high risk groups, I'm just questioning the disproportionate and fear driven response to it. I wouldn't like the two to be conflated. Have you watched any of Carl Heneghan's advice to the Seanad committee?

[Pedrito]

Definitely. We can't all be wearing masks and locking up the world for much longer if it's not going to affect the vast majority. What needs to happen is a pinpointing of those most at risk and solutions offered etc. I'm sure an element of that is already being done, and of course more needed.

[astfgyl]

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0828/1161895-excess-mortality-figures/

Falling all the time, although the effects of locking down on people's general behaviour can't be disregarded. I'm sure many a car crash has been avoided and whatever else

Here is a very interesting examination of several other aspects of the reporting around Covid. Recommended for anyone who likes to hear both sides of an argument before taking the knee..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7vLA7hQ5rI

[Juggz]

Yes, but isn't that ......... Fuck it, I'll take that one on the chin. 

Of course I'm not questioning the fact that there is a coronavirus that can kill people in high risk groups, I'm just questioning the disproportionate and fear driven response to it. I wouldn't like the two to be conflated. Have you watched any of Carl Heneghan's advice to the Seanad committee?

Yeah, I watched the video you posted. I'm as qualified to say he's right as I am to say he's wrong. I'd be interested to see footage of the physicians whose advice the NPHET is following if you have it. It's hard to see the obvious gaps in their structure where Heneghan's opinion could fall on deaf ears if he's right and they're wrong but, hey, I'm just a lad without any medical qualifications and probably better off trusting those who do to decide on my behalf for now.

https://assets.gov.ie/78019/cb417ba9-e584-4c12-a164-259521ebf667.pdf

My take on it is quite simple: although I'm probably likely to be alright were I to get it, my oul one, who has been through a long period of chemo as part of cancer treatment, might not be. I don't want her to get it and it would fucking haunt me were I to transmit it to her. It would haunt me were I to transmit it to anyone, actually, especially if it was just because I felt I knew better. How do I know what problems other people have? I don't feel wearing a mask is that much of an imposition for now. It's not a big deal. The emphasis had been on minimising infections in an effort not to clog up hospitals and negatively affect other treatments, no? The numbers are, what, 3386 out of 28453 have required hospitalisation, so almost 1 in 10? Yeah, I have no problem playing ball and wearing a mask and keeping my hands clean if that helps. If that makes me a gullible sheep then baaaaah.

[Ducky]

Juggz is on the money.

There's no narrative of fear being "pushed" - it's justified. Look at the rate of infections and deaths we've had, that's despite lockdown, other concerted efforts to minimise exposure and having a really low population density.

I'll say this as well - it's fine and dandy to say "it's only people with underlying health problems that need to worry". Well, I'm diabetic. My immune system isn't worth a fuck. If I catch this I'm up the creek. I can spend anywhere up to six weeks trying to shake a cold. Even if I'm not completely bed-ridden by it, it makes managing the diabetes more of a nightmare than it already is.

I'm fine in that my chances of catching it is the same as others, but it's once I catch it shit hits the fan. Therefore I have to limit my chances of catching it. I'm one of those people that looks perfectly healthy (I even look reasonably fit), but I'm really fucking not.

So just wear a mask, stay the fuck home, buy a few cans instead of going out and realise how fucking lucky you are not to have underlying health issues.

[Emphyrio]

100%

And even if you think you are healthy, that doesn't mean you'll get off scott free. It seems very random. Even if I wasn't a hypochondriac, I'd still be loathe to take a chance, either for me, or those around me. It's a mask, not an iron chastity belt.

[Ducky]

Yeah no one's pretending a mask is comfortable or whatever, but I'm sure a jaunt to COVID-town would be a whole lot less comfortable, even for an otherwise healthy individual.

[Blackout]

Seems to be at a steady 150 per day average. Youd have to think another lockdown is imminent.

[Pedrito]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that it's a serious issue. The problem is that the response isn't adequate or appropriate. Masks are useless and yet we are all wearing them. There was talk of the Gardaí going onto people's property to stop them meeting up and these kind of measures do seem to be driven by irrational and kneejerk emotions. It just seems haphazard and now looking at the numbers one would have imagined they could pinpoint more clearly the 'at risk' people. I'm all for eliminating the thing as soon as possible but it's not clear if that is ever likely to happen.

I think the coming Autumn and Winter will show us where we are with this thing, but the worry is that this becomes some sort of 'new norm' and I'm not sure if that can be allowed to happen. It's a tricky one and there seems no clear path at the moment. All that said, some people are complete pisstakers in terms of not giving any fuck about others and the book should be thrown at them. If the rest of us have to wear a mask and keep 2 metres distance, then they can surely do so, and that includes BLM, Gemma O'Doherty, Phil Hogan or any other selfish lunatic out there.