Coronavirus

[Trev]

"We're delaying the virus and suppressing it", he said. "If we can really concentrate over the next six weeks then we can have December ... and if we really behave ourselves then we can look forward to a reopening."

I don't like Varadkar, but at least he was able to deliver a speech. This utterly condescending shit from that bollocks can go fuck off

[astfgyl]

It's like an abusive partner blaming the victim for the punishment they have to dole (pun intended) out to them.

As a fella who has had a rough dose of it, and from what I gather either you or your missus works in the health service, do you think this response is justified given what has been learned in the last 7 months and what hasn't been done to the health service in the last 7 months? Have you not behaved personally? Almost everyone I know has behaved in exactly the fashion they were told to and yet here we are, counting the beds day by day and being told we should be blaming ourselves for the situation. "If we really behave ourselves..." Oh fuck. If I was working in the health service I think I would have every right to be fucking livid this minute. How many pay rises were given to nursing and hospital staff while the government fought in the Dail for raises to junior ministers to the tune of 16 grand a year? It has gone beyond a joke but yet the sick cunts are telling us to behave.

No lads, don't take another day of it. Wash your hands, reduce your contacts, don't go to the old people when you are sick. But remember that beds are halved since 2008 when we all paid a fucking debt that was not our fault while the banks got away with murder and now the money is being wasted on pointless testing and tracing when the actual metric is the overrunning of a cunt of a national health service. And all the while the same fried bastards have been in charge of our collective ruin and haven't lost a cent.

Everyone is quoting 1984 these days but it is way more like Animal Farm. Both versions actually, because it is both an allegory of the russian revolution and analogous to the blue movie version where some people get bummed by horses and pigs.

[blessed1]

This country is fucked

[Trev]

It's like an abusive partner blaming the victim for the punishment they have to dole (pun intended) out to them.

As a fella who has had a rough dose of it, and from what I gather either you or your missus works in the health service, do you think this response is justified given what has been learned in the last 7 months and what hasn't been done to the health service in the last 7 months? Have you not behaved personally? Almost everyone I know has behaved in exactly the fashion they were told to and yet here we are, counting the beds day by day and being told we should be blaming ourselves for the situation. "If we really behave ourselves..." Oh fuck. If I was working in the health service I think I would have every right to be fucking livid this minute. How many pay rises were given to nursing and hospital staff while the government fought in the Dail for raises to junior ministers to the tune of 16 grand a year? It has gone beyond a joke but yet the sick cunts are telling us to behave.

I don't honestly know if it's the right thing or not, but when there seems to a steady stream of scientists questioning the veracity of lockdowns it does seem there should at the very least be more of a discussion around it.

Either way, the health system is still fucked and treated with utter contempt by the government so I can't see anything changing anytime soon.

[Cailleach]

We could have learnt lessons from Korea and others who focused on the K more so than the R-O rate as a mean to control the spread.

[The Butcher]

Warning against herd immunity approach ->

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

Also why I'd be against it ->
1 in 8 of our population are over 65. Ireland 3rd highest rate of cancer in the world. Almost 226,000 people living with diabetes in Ireland.
500,000 people are estimated to have Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD). Irish men highest body mass index in Europe, Irish women ranking 3rd, 1 in 4 children in Ireland now classified as overweight or obese.  Ireland 1 of the highest rates of high blood pressure internationally - among the lowest levels of diagnosis, treatment & control of the condition. Dr Paul Kavanagh, who is an adviser to the HSE's Quit programme, said more than 1 in 5 people aged 15 or over in Ireland are smokers. Respiratory disease causes almost one in 5 deaths in Ireland.

We know morality figures from covid are those with elderly or people with cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, respiratory disease, cancer etc.

[Giggles]

Warning against herd immunity approach ->

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."

This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?

[pete]

Level 5 from Wednesday night. Y'all better be good boys and girls and obey the rules or else we're gonna have to cancel xmas 

Your government are punishing you for their years of incompetence to run a health service. Sad sad bastards, indoctrinated by fear when the evidence of bollix is staring us all in the face.

But it if was all bollix why would they be worried about their incompetence to run a health service?

[Cailleach]

Warning against herd immunity approach ->

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."

This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?

I suppose their hope is that by the time  late January  comes a vaccine will be ready to be rolled out to the most vulnerable. The rest of us will have to wait.

[Ollkiller]

Warning against herd immunity approach ->

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."

This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?

Because our test and trace is bullshit.

[Giggles]

Warning against herd immunity approach ->

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."

This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?

I suppose their hope is that by the time  late January  comes a vaccine will be ready to be rolled out to the most vulnerable. The rest of us will have to wait.

Look at how long it takes to manufacture a vaccine : https://www.vaccineseurope.eu/about-vaccines/how-are-vaccines-produced/

On average, it takes between 12-36 months* to manufacture a vaccine before it is ready for distribution.

As far as I'm aware, there is no reliable vaccine available yet?
I know somebody who works in the manufacturing of vaccines who confirmed that even if one was designed today, it would take over 200 days (can't remember the exact figure, 263 maybe?) to manufacture a batch of vaccines ready for distribution. Not sure if that timeframe is strictly limited to her own company's abilities, but she seems fairly certain that we're not gonna get spiked anytime soon.

[Cailleach]

Warning against herd immunity approach ->

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

"The purpose of these restrictions is to effectively suppress SARS-CoV-2 infections to low levels that allow rapid detection of localised outbreaks and rapid response through efficient and comprehensive find, test, trace, isolate, and support systems so life can return to near-normal without the need for generalised restrictions. Protecting our economies is inextricably tied to controlling COVID-19. We must protect our workforce and avoid long-term uncertainty."

This approach didn't work over the summer? How is it going to work now?

I suppose their hope is that by the time  late January  comes a vaccine will be ready to be rolled out to the most vulnerable. The rest of us will have to wait.

Look at how long it takes to manufacture a vaccine : https://www.vaccineseurope.eu/about-vaccines/how-are-vaccines-produced/

On average, it takes between 12-36 months* to manufacture a vaccine before it is ready for distribution.

As far as I'm aware, there is no reliable vaccine available yet?
I know somebody who works in the manufacturing of vaccines who confirmed that even if one was designed today, it would take over 200 days (can't remember the exact figure, 263 maybe?) to manufacture a batch of vaccines ready for distribution. Not sure if that timeframe is strictly limited to her own company's abilities, but she seems fairly certain that we're not gonna get spiked anytime soon.

My brother's wife  who works in the same area  said something similar. I read a report that says some vaccines are ready to be rolled out  early  next year, but that is likely propaganda by countries who are desperate to be able to say they are the first to roll out a vaccine. Boris Johnson would love to be able boast about His Oxford scientist being world beaters, just further proof of British exceptionalism .

[astfgyl]

Level 5 from Wednesday night. Y'all better be good boys and girls and obey the rules or else we're gonna have to cancel xmas 

Your government are punishing you for their years of incompetence to run a health service. Sad sad bastards, indoctrinated by fear when the evidence of bollix is staring us all in the face.

But it if was all bollix why would they be worried about their incompetence to run a health service?

The bollix part is that we all have to suffer for the actions of our elected representatives, who have done precisely fuck all in the last 7 months to improve anything. So they push the fear way harder than it needs to be pushed, as evidenced by research from all over the world which is constantly pushing the ifr down. Coupled with what has been learned about how to treat the illness, they should be in a better position now to deal with it, should have used the summer months to do something more than sit on their hands and give themselves pay rises. I think the focus on track and trace is not the right idea. Test sick people and most of this goes away, simple as that. Prior to March 2020, healthy people were healthy and didn't need quarantining. Set up a system to pay anyone who is sick to stay at home, let everyone else have at it. People can surely decide their own level of risk, and of course there would be some bit of bollixing around lads playing sick, but it wouldn't be anything like this hammer blow to the economy. Use rapid testing for healthcare staff, and visitors to high risk settings. If somebody is high risk, a doctor's cert should suffice to see them impose their own personal level 5 if they so wish. Don't call anyone who doesn't have symptoms of covid-19 a case, and the cases fall away. No more broken leg patients being covid cases.

The bollix is that none of this is considered in the approach, not the fact that some people get sick. So contact trace away, warn them to stay home for a week to see if symptoms develop, but don't test them all unless they have symptoms. It would of course this way mean some people will catch it, but 99.8% of them will live, and with the focused protection, one could reasonably expect that ifr to fall further. There is a different idea, one which doesn't destroy either lives or livelihoods and keeps the country going, keeps people sane and healthy, able to enjoy life instead of being haunted by the spectre of covid, as being locked in their homes sanitising the shit out of everything is a sure fire way to fuck one's immune system anyway and open up the health service to many more admissions. Stress is also strongly associated with poor health outcomes, but that also seems to be disregarded. The list goes on and on. Opening the pubs for example would have been smarter than driving everyone into houses together, but wasn't bothered with. The pig-headed, not-for-turning approach of the government and NPHET at the moment is good for no one.

Also, and this is not directed to you in particular Pete, What happens if there is never a vaccine? Don't just say "but there will be one", tell me what you think happens if it doesn't come for say 10 years? Remember there is no vaccine for any of the other coronavirus variants.  Serious question for all of the wait for the vaccine proponents, what if it doesn't come?

That is the main reason why I think another approach must be taken, we are putting all our eggs in the one basket otherwise and that is never a good idea, especially as any vaccine that comes now goes against all previous safety and development standards in the rush to save us all. Not a good idea.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Pubs in this country are officially being sent down the swanee. Oh, and there's the nice kind issue of fines to look forward to.....
Who wouldn't want to give a few politicians a good flogging outside the Dáil, huh?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html

[astfgyl]

Pubs in this country are officially being sent down the swanee. Oh, and there's the nice kind issue of fines to look forward to.....
Who wouldn't want to give a few politicians a good flogging outside the Dáil, huh?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html

"We need everbody to buy into this in its' totality". For right or wrong, presumably. Trust the government, they never get anything wrong. Fucking fines.

I floated the idea of floggings a while back in jest, but it is gaining traction.