Coronavirus

[mugz]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/06/millions-develop-tuberculosis-tb-covid-19-lockdown

This article about TB, but likely applies to a lot of other diseases as well. Seems everyone has their eye on the ball instead of the defender about to smash their legs from behind.

The indirect rate of death and disease from the fallout of this could turn out to be much higher than the actual rate if the focus doesn't come off it a bit soon and get back to living with it. Yes there will have to be adjustments but the show must go on. Putting more of the world into poverty and misery and austerity could also contribute to an increase in deaths greater than the toll of Covid-19 in many ways. Of course that could all be seen as indirect Covid deaths if one wanted to look at it that way.

The world really needs to broaden its' horizons a bit to see it isn't the only game in town because it is the newest. Or to use the earlier analogy, one needs to know where the ball as well as where the defender is to have the best chance of scoring or the defender needs to watch the ball as well as the incoming striker to stand the best chance of not conceding. depending how one wants to see it.

I think it is time to start learning how to live with this now and put more effort into care for the high risk groups rather than full country lock downs, as we are all way too reliant on the assumption there will be a cure or vaccine for this.

every death BY a non existent disease is an indirect death. Sorry for harping on, I'm well aware many many people here and there have reasons for pushing this script, but I can't go along to get along in this case.

[astfgyl]

Do you honestly think it is a non-existent disease? I'd be very skeptical of that claim in the same way I'm very skeptical of how the whole situation is being presented to us. It seems to me that there is certainly a disease but the figures and information on it are all horribly distorted and to the gain of some entities and to the detriment of others. I make the argument back at myself then that of course figures are going to be distorted and there is no way of knowing in which direction that goes and it is to be expected with something so new that it will take a while for the data to be analysed. I have seen many sides of the arguments about this thing and I really haven't seen enough to make up my mind entirely yet but my gut tells me there is something really weird in the presentation of it all so far. Something which hasn't properly become apparent yet but we have all had a gut feeling about things before and it is usually right. I don't mean a few thoughts around something, I mean the real but hard to describe feeling we have all experienced.

I would be interested in hearing why you think it doesn't exist at all. And I think we can all get along just fine while disagreeing about things. I was under the impression that was how places like this worked, that nobody should have to go along to get along although I try to keep my own points open to discussion rather than "telling" things to people or getting into heated arguments because that just kills discussion and who knows there might be something to be learned from it all

[mugz]

Do you honestly think it is a non-existent disease? I'd be very skeptical of that claim in the same way I'm very skeptical of how the whole situation is being presented to us. It seems to me that there is certainly a disease but the figures and information on it are all horribly distorted and to the gain of some entities and to the detriment of others. I make the argument back at myself then that of course figures are going to be distorted and there is no way of knowing in which direction that goes and it is to be expected with something so new that it will take a while for the data to be analysed. I have seen many sides of the arguments about this thing and I really haven't seen enough to make up my mind entirely yet but my gut tells me there is something really weird in the presentation of it all so far. Something which hasn't properly become apparent yet but we have all had a gut feeling about things before and it is usually right. I don't mean a few thoughts around something, I mean the real but hard to describe feeling we have all experienced.

I would be interested in hearing why you think it doesn't exist at all. And I think we can all get along just fine while disagreeing about things. I was under the impression that was how places like this worked, that nobody should have to go along to get along although I try to keep my own points open to discussion rather than "telling" things to people or getting into heated arguments because that just kills discussion and who knows there might be something to be learned from it all

well, go along to get along in an overall reality sense. sometimes they stuff they put our way is way too much, not sometimes pretty often! I guess I'm trying to plant a flag. In some ways it's utterly futile but at least maybe one person might be less frightened by knowing there is no virus.

the real question is what ever happened to AIDS, cancer, 'terrorists' etc They must have got the memo to keep quiet for now.

I've written a lot of big paragraphs, naively, about ch-change, reality adjustment etc In many ways what's happening is FAR more terrifying than a biological outbreak. So yes, there is no virus, though there's no doubt they do a lot of stuff to make people low key tired/frightened/unwell, from food production, to bathroom products, household products, and yes vaccines to things which don't exist/do exist but they made/are actually beneficial for you anyway.

astfgyl is an unfortunate handle in this context. it doesn't really matter anyway, we're all being penned,played, controlled whether we agree or disagree on how this will play out.

[astfgyl]

I actually agree with a few points you are making, but have you anything to back it up beyond a gut feeling like I was talking about? I have no concrete proof of fuck all only a general feeling and so far there has always been a seemingly reasonable argument against it. Also, another Pratchett reader? Eric is class and for me has at least 3 levels of meaning. I chose the name carefully in the beginning but now I can't remember which meaning I chose it for.

[mugz]

I actually agree with a few points you are making, but have you anything to back it up beyond a gut feeling like I was talking about? I have no concrete proof of fuck all only a general feeling and so far there has always been a seemingly reasonable argument against it. Also, another Pratchett reader? Eric is class and for me has at least 3 levels of meaning. I chose the name carefully in the beginning but now I can't remember which meaning I chose it for.

We're all reaching that age where we can't remember what things are or why but we remember there being good reasons at the time  I'm no different in that sense. And no I'm not  a Pratchett fan so much as a respecter of the huge number of truths dropped in his stuff, supposedly for kids, but really not. At the time Douglas Adams was more my bag, but they both did their job, whatever secret society they belonged to.

I mean it's hard to back up anything I'm saying because it's all lies, everything around us is deeply evil and deceptive. Some people 'know' the truth but if you do or not and I'm not saying I know anything other than what they've allowed me to know, we're still inside the same narrative-machine, the same machine that always gives you just enough to stay curious/engaged.

So without going into a massive spiel about lots of esoteric stuff I don't really enjoy dealing with, it's hard to give specific pointers, but you'll have noticed the layering in covid-19 itself, corvid, covered, shroud, See Ovid, huginn, muninn etc

[livingabortion]

According this they reckon there is some short term positive effects, as we're being made stay at home and not making a shite of thing, but long term no:

https://youtu.be/2xRmP7cwycg

[Blitzer666]

Not often I think the clowns in the north do anything right, but glad they didn't follow Boris. The steps seem pretty good, hopefully starting at end of may. See family and friends then hopefully

[Snare]

Ah here mugz, are you saying nearly 2,000 deaths in Ireland are fake news? Are you saying the survivors throughout the island are spoofing it when recounting how they never experienced anyway remotely close to this "fake" virus?

I guess their bedside testimonies were put on in the same studios as the moon landing and alien autopsies. The users here who have had family members affected must be delusional as well I suppose. Sheesh

[Yung Led Zeppelin]

I'm a crisis actor and I didn't even know it

[Eoin McLove]

I think there is something iffy about the way the economic effect of this lock down has been kind of sidelined. I think the virus is real, I'm not into conspiracy theories,  but I don't know if the response has been the right one. Does locking everything down and potentially dragging this on for a year or two, after which the virus will probably still exist but we may or may not have a vaccine- and who will get it?- leave us in a better position than having just let it rip through the world for a season? That's an extreme question maybe, and I don't even really have a strong stance, but I am 100% against destroying the economy when we are fairly sure that doing that will result in so much more misery.

[Juggz]

I think everybody knows that has to happen, waiting for a vaccine which may never come is not an option, but nobody wants to be the owner of that decision. I don't think the half-assed lockdown is sustainable for much longer. They can't keep writing cheques. At some point, that money needs to be paid back and people need to be working in order to do that.

[astfgyl]

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/

An interesting comparison drawn here. He makes no mention of the extra capacity in the private hospitals though. It seems to me that if those figures are included, we would have close to the capacity needed for a Swedish style solution.

The basic economic figures at the end make very interesting reading.

The article reads a bit as a pat on the back for Tony Holohan, which isn't really an issue as he can only work with what he has in front of him, but my own take is that it is a damning report on what condition our health service was in prior to this situation due to mismanagement by successive health ministers going back over a number of terms. Also the part where the Swedish representative reckons their current approach will give them an advantage for the seemingly inevitable second wave in autumn is something worth thinking about, although only time will prove the veracity of that claim.

Any way one wants to look at it, it's not a bad read all the same and gives more food for thought around what the 2 posts above are saying

[mugz]

Ah here mugz, are you saying nearly 2,000 deaths in Ireland are fake news? Are you saying the survivors throughout the island are spoofing it when recounting how they never experienced anyway remotely close to this "fake" virus?

I guess their bedside testimonies were put on in the same studios as the moon landing and alien autopsies. The users here who have had family members affected must be delusional as well I suppose. Sheesh

well I'm not absolutely saying that, and I'm aware I'm being played as much as those people being made to self-imprison. We're all being spun like tops, but for what it's worth things are much worse than a 'virus'. It is a virus, but not something dettol will cure.

trust noone except yourself and the first 3 Entombed albums.

[astfgyl]

I was in work today and I noticed that the overall level of people out and about has taken a massive jump and at times it was no different to how it was in say January when things weren't crazy but still tipping along. As I was driving home I noticed how much traffic has come back on the roads and other than the pub doors being closed it looked like business as usual.

I then realised that there are things I will miss as we slowly emerge from lockdown, and I'm sort of cursing myself for not enjoying it more in a way.

Edit: I will still have plenty of time to make the most of it, I'm not suggesting it is anywhere near over.

[mickO)))]

Today in Canada news outlets are reporting that saying the virus came from China is now both xenophobic and a conspiracy theory