Coronavirus

[Emphyrio]

100%

It's grand for debates etc. like on here but I only really give a cursory look at this stuff nowadays. There's nothing wrong with being informed but having righteous anger is futile as there's nothing you can do, it's more or less directionless. As you say, take comfort and enjoyment in what you can. Don't sweat the small stuff but equally don't sweat the stuff that's so big that you can do fuckall about.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This is no doubt a naive, dumb question, but imagining the worst case scenario where all of this surveillance is activated (if it isn't already), what actual and practical difference will it make to our lives? How will it make things worse for the average Joe/ Josephine?

I think "Look at China!" is the rote response to that question. Or some vague allusion to Stalin.

Funnily, to answer astfgyl's question too, about transmission and people getting COVID without knowing how, in the Asian countries that implemented it, targeted tracing and isolation of contacts worked great, whereas in the modern "west", vaguely defined as those nations where individual freedoms and rights are held to be the most sacred thing, contact tracing failed as a strategy; people didn't participate, didn't use the apps, didn't actually isolate when they were told to, etc., etc. In South Korea, Taiwan, and Vietnam, the state's response didn't factor our sacred cow of individual freedoms at all. In South Korea, data surveillance was used to, as we would see it, "hack" who a confirmed case's contacts had been. In Vietnam and Taiwan, confirmed contacts were sent to, as we would see it, concentration camps... in reality, quarantine facilities.

Sure any time anywhere in the west something was done to try and implement things on a societal rather than individual level (because, and this can never be said enough, an epidemic/pandemic is a social-level, not an individual-level phenomenon), the loudest voices heard were people barking about individual-level shite. Like recently when vaccinations were opened to all ages for African-Americans earlier than they were for others. Even though it was clear as fucking day when looking at the data that this was an attempt to redress an imbalance in the vaccination rates between different communities, of course all we heard was "It's not fair!" Not fair on who? Individuals. Our western, individualistic thinking is terrible, the absolute worst frame of mind, for getting the necessary done when it comes to a pandemic. And it leads to so much hypocrisy and bullshit; "My political party will never impose that on you!" 2 weeks to 6 months later, "Sorry, but we absolutely have to impose this on you!" In those Asian countries? "Here's what's happening. Everyone do their bit." And that second sentence is only implied, because in any case, they just do it. South Korea, where cases are rising again at the moment too, still only has 3,500 cases per million inhabitants, and only 40 deaths per million. Compare that to, say, Sweden, who supposedly did things in the way that most respected "western values" of personal responsibility and freedom: 108,000 cases, 1,500 deaths per million inhabitants.

So, that was the COVID blahblahblah bit. Now to come back to Andy's bit, I'm not saying I think we should all become like those Asian nations. BUT they are very useful, in a pluralistic sense, for getting some much needed perspective on what we have to put up with. Because, the vaccine passport doesn't bother me personally; not only am I vaccinated, but I've needed a literal vaccine passport for traveling previously, so it never appeared to me as a dystopian thing in and of itself. Rather, what's annoying is introducing a vaccine passport against the backdrop of a totally failed vaccination programme, which is failing in part because of what the "modern west" holds dearest.

In short, take what's good about your western mind-frame (and there is nothing more western than having the luxury to ponder a possible big conspiracy going on as opposed to having it physically shoved down your throat by the buropolitik), but accept that in certain situations, it's not the optimal. Because nothing is optimal in every situation.

Now, have a fun day as opposed to interesting times everyone!

[Kurt Cocaine]

Shove it up yer flappy hoop....

https://extra.ie/2021/07/22/news/irish-news/pantibar-rory-oneill-panti-bliss-vaccination

[Ollkiller]

Shove it up yer flappy hoop....

https://extra.ie/2021/07/22/news/irish-news/pantibar-rory-oneill-panti-bliss-vaccination

Did you actually read the article. He's not opening indoor dining until all his young staff are vaccinated. Are you actually pissed off at that.

[astfgyl]

https://twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1418633230861979649

I just don't know anymore. We'll be next anyway.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Laurence Fox...if only he could be permanently lost for words.

If you didn't get vaccinated in Israel, unlike in France (where the passport measures are otherwise identical...see my previous post), it really was only because you refused to, not because of access problems, etc.

[Caomhaoin]

Larry broke ranks, and now he's on a par with Hitler (I was going to say Pol Pot but sure he was only doing pure revolution, fuck the specky bastards etc).

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

He wishes he could ever be on a par with Hitler! He's just an adult spoilt-brat profile toffee-nosed sap.

[astfgyl]

Laurence Fox...if only he could be permanently lost for words.

If you didn't get vaccinated in Israel, unlike in France (where the passport measures are otherwise identical...see my previous post), it really was only because you refused to, not because of access problems, etc.

Don't shoot the messenger (he is a sap in general but so what), the video is very clearly not taken out of context. Are you seriously attempting to defend this? You have to be taking the piss.

We were just following orders, they were unclean...

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Are you seriously attempting to defend this? You have to be taking the piss.

We were just following orders, they were unclean...

No one's getting massacred for not being vaccinated (in fact, the narrative is the reverse of that), so no need for the absurd holocaust parallels. I was mainly saying that what Israel have announced is no more or less than what came into effect here in France a few days ago, so I'm not sure why Fox is lost for words now for the first time in his life. If anything, in Israel it's more understandable since they really did put an effective vaccination programme in place first of all, unlike here in France. And also the cap they announce in the video is 100, whereas here it's 50.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

And, on a side note, no one should be surprised or lost for words at any kind of authoritarian action from Israel. Maybe Fox can spend his brief stint of silence reflecting on what that means for the Palestine situation he has been so dismissive of in the past, the absolute cock.

[astfgyl]

Still banging on about Fox being lost for words? Deflect much?

It was by convincing everybody that the Jews were unclean and the root of the problems in the first place that then allowed for the actual holocaust to happen. But you know this unless you've never read up on it or studied it in history.

And Israel really did put in an effective vaccination programme in place, that is not disputed. The only thing is, it doesn't appear to be working as advertised (I say appear because as far as I can see, the deaths are indeed way down on last year and early this year). https://www.newsweek.com/fauci-doubt-study-delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-1607534 have a read of that and then tell me the science is settled or that the vaccines are not still on trial as to their efficacy.

What was introduced in France is every bit as wrong as this, I agree. I still don't see how you can defend this or resort to derision of Laurence Fox to distract from what is going on. It's indefensible from a scientific point of view. You know this too though, and are just opposing my views here for the sake of the argument.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I do think Israel, given their situation, are exaggerating. But that doesn't surprise me. So, I know why Fox is "stunned" by it, because he's a blinkered idiot just fueling his own political aims, but I don't know why this specifically made you say "I just don't know anymore." Israel have been at the forefront in the (nominal) "west" for anti-COVID measures since the get-go. In fact, I thought they already had something like a vaccine passport or mandatory vaccination in place. In other words, I'm surprised too, but only to hear that they're only bringing it in now. Can't keep up on everything though!

As for delta variant, etc., and the science of any given vaccine; it was always on the table that variants could emerge that would be more resistant (variants that were less resistant wouldn't get a chance to emerge). It's evolution, baby!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This has nothing to do with coronavirus, but I happened to watch it during lunch yesterday, and it works well enough as a bit of a refresher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sLAQvEH-M

[astfgyl]

I do think Israel, given their situation, are exaggerating. But that doesn't surprise me. So, I know why Fox is "stunned" by it, because he's a blinkered idiot just fueling his own political aims, but I don't know why this specifically made you say "I just don't know anymore." Israel have been at the forefront in the (nominal) "west" for anti-COVID measures since the get-go. In fact, I thought they already had something like a vaccine passport or mandatory vaccination in place. In other words, I'm surprised too, but only to hear that they're only bringing it in now. Can't keep up on everything though!

As for delta variant, etc., and the science of any given vaccine; it was always on the table that variants could emerge that would be more resistant (variants that were less resistant wouldn't get a chance to emerge). It's evolution, baby!

As much as I enjoyed the PJ reference, I still think that the science on this doesn't add up enough for mandatory or coerced vaccinations or indeed any form of health pass system. Israel did bring it in already and then removed it when numbers decreased. The reason I don't even know anymore is because we have spent the last year amassing data which points to all of this segregation being wrong and futile and yet the whole world seems to be singing from the same hymn sheet, thundering ahead with the plan. The variants are bullshit as well. There must be numbers of positive tests or there is no emergency and all of this shit is a stalling tactic to get everyone on board with the vaccination passes, which by the design of the vaccines (not to prevent transmission or infection, only severe outcomes) are a waste of time. Except they aren't a waste of time at all, are they? They fit the agenda perfectly.

By the way, are you saying that vaccination leads to vaccination resistant variants? It looks like that is what you're saying, and that is an argument against vaccinating everyone in itself. - edit: because infection doesn't produce natural immunity resistant variants. Have a look how many reinfections have been recorded with any of the new variants in people who have already been infected and recovered. In fact the longer this goes on, the Great Barrington Declaration seems to make more and more sense, and it isn't against vaccines either, in fact it supports them but only after they have been properly trialed before being rushed to market.