Coronavirus

[pete]

The bollix part is that we all have to suffer for the actions of our elected representatives, who have done precisely fuck all in the last 7 months to improve anything. So they push the fear way harder than it needs to be pushed, as evidenced by research from all over the world which is constantly pushing the ifr down. Coupled with what has been learned about how to treat the illness, they should be in a better position now to deal with it, should have used the summer months to do something more than sit on their hands and give themselves pay rises. I think the focus on track and trace is not the right idea. Test sick people and most of this goes away, simple as that. Prior to March 2020, healthy people were healthy and didn't need quarantining. Set up a system to pay anyone who is sick to stay at home, let everyone else have at it. People can surely decide their own level of risk, and of course there would be some bit of bollixing around lads playing sick, but it wouldn't be anything like this hammer blow to the economy. Use rapid testing for healthcare staff, and visitors to high risk settings. If somebody is high risk, a doctor's cert should suffice to see them impose their own personal level 5 if they so wish. Don't call anyone who doesn't have symptoms of covid-19 a case, and the cases fall away. No more broken leg patients being covid cases.

So you do agree anyway that we need this current lockdown for the next few weeks as we don't have another way of dealing with it currently?

Also, and this is not directed to you in particular Pete, What happens if there is never a vaccine? Don't just say "but there will be one", tell me what you think happens if it doesn't come for say 10 years? Remember there is no vaccine for any of the other coronavirus variants.  Serious question for all of the wait for the vaccine proponents, what if it doesn't come?

I dunno. All the things I like are shut so I'm not sure I could consider there not being one haha. What I'd give to be standing in the Voodoo Lounge with a shit pint listening to a shit support band setup.

I suppose the current "plan" is based on a vaccine happening over the next couple of years, the odds being high there will be one? If science came out tomorrow and said nope, we've concluded it impossible then I'd imagine a different plan would be looked into?

[astfgyl]

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/7/11-089086/en/

Good bit of reading here from the WHO. History never repeats itself, right?

[Carnage]

Pubs in this country are officially being sent down the swanee. Oh, and there's the nice kind issue of fines to look forward to.....
Who wouldn't want to give a few politicians a good flogging outside the Dáil, huh?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40067942.html

Meanwhile:

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ex-tds-asked-to-stay-away-from-dail-during-lockdown-39646548.html

[astfgyl]

Lol, delighted for them. No bar for them this time either.

In other news, has anyone else seen Varadkar's decidedly weird press conference, where he seems to be saying that he doesn't think the lockdown is worth the other shit it will cause but they are going ahead with it anyway? "People afraid to go to hospital because they are told they are overwhelmed, but they're not"......"might see other countries who didn't lock down have the same result".....

Surely politics being played, but what does he think is coming down the line? Is he saying without saying that he is against it? Throwing NPHET under a bus of sorts?

[astfgyl]

HPSC has issued some guidance around the CT value and PCR testing along with presentation of clinical symptoms which seems very sensible and should see a dramatic fall in cases if implemented. What are the bets it gets implemented some time during the new lockdown? Result: Lockdowns work great!!

Here it is: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/guidance/outbreakmanagementguidance/PCR%20weak%20results%20guidance.pdf

The reason I don't think it has been implemented thus far is that my kids' teacher tested positive but asymptomatic and no symptoms in the almost 2 weeks since, yet doesn't appear to have been retested. Must get the full story out of her, but far as I know it was through the app she was notified as a contact. Kids got swabbed and I got swabbed myself as a result. It wasn't great fun. Also despite the entire class testing negative, they all still have to stay out until 2 weeks are up and all parents had to stay out of work until kids tested negative. All did test negative. Strangely enough as well, when the principal rang she said she had been informed by the HSE that as the teacher had no symptoms it was extremely unlikely that she would have passed it on to any of the kids. Then the half arsed swabbing that the two young lads got vs the nasal and pharyngeal rape myself and the wife were subjected to gave me the distinct impression that they might not want the young children to come up positive.

Here is the important part for those who don't want to read the rest of it:

Appendix 1
Notes on the Utility & limitations of PCR
1. PCR as a diagnostic methodology is exquisitely sensitive, capable under conditions of
optimal sample quality of detecting fewer than 10 copies of viral RNA in a clinical sample
2. PCR does not distinguish between viable virus and non-infectious RNA
3. In individuals infected with SARS-CoV-2, PCR can often detect viral RNA for many days
and weeks after the resolution of the clinical syndrome
4. PCR-based assays can yield non-specific (or 'false positive') results near the limit of
detection of the assay: this does not mean that the test is bad
5. A very good PCR assay with a specificity of 99.5% can still generate 5 'RNA detected'
results in a cohort of 1000 individuals without the infection
6. Although there may be variation between platforms and amplification efficiency in
general standard PCR assays run for 40 cycles: under optimal conditions the amount of
genetic material present doubles with each cycle, and increases by a factor of 10 every
3.3 cycles
7. PCR results can be reported as cycle threshold (Ct) values: in general terms the lower
the Ct value, the more viral RNA that is present in the clinical specimen. Note: The
same sample tested on different assays/platforms can give different Ct values reflecting
differences in the targets detected and the chemistry of the test used. When considering
trends in Ct values it is preferable to test samples with the same assay/platform each
time.
8. In the diagnostic setting, a Ct value of 30 in a very efficient PCR assay represents a viral
load of around 1000 (3 log) copies: a Ct value > 34 represents a viral load of fewer than
100 copies; a Ct value of >37 represents a viral load of fewer than 10 copies
9. There are very few reports of viable SARS-CoV-2 virus being retrieved in culture from
clinical specimens with a Ct value of >34

Lastly, Dr Cillian De Gascun, Chair of the Covid-19 Expert Advisory Group at NPHET says:

https://twitter.com/CillianDeGascun/status/1305251821829656585

Well there we have it.

[Grim Reality]

Fair play to ye lads. The general discussion forum has been an interesting place these last few months. I would tend to lean toward the Astfgyl point of view and have done for a fair while now.

I tend to keep a reasonable eye on worldwide trends, numbers, and its very easy to get lost in the whole thing. What numbers are accurate? Cases? Deaths? Which country?

There's question marks over everything. I guess the most honest metric out there is a combination of deaths and numbers in ICU. And in Ireland at least, its not the worst plague of all time we are dealing with here when you look at that.

But tough to get perspective on for sure.

[astfgyl]

There are more than a few folks who are starting to call bullshit on the current run of things. People are inclined to believe what they see, even when it doesn't match up to what they are being told and that is heartening. For example, if I was to suddenly notice people getting sick everywhere or some sort of weird spike in deaths such as we had in April here, I would be able to change my opinion accordingly. So far not so, but I keep an open mind.

Watching this interview with Scott Atlas at the minute which seems to be a rare beacon of common sense but which I feel will be disregarded due to his Trump connections. Here it is, and don't knock it til ye try it. https://unherd.com/thepost/scott-atlas-im-disgusted-and-dismayed/ I find myself fully agreeing with him but I can see how through fear and indoctrination that many here won't agree.

Also bear in mind that I was one of the lockdown proponents at the beginning and my kids keep reminding me of how I banned them from seeing their friends well before any of that shite became official. I feel bad for it now but at the time I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing, due to my own fear. Everyone can make mistakes and if I turn out to be wrong this time I will readily admit it again.

I am someone who has worked all the way through and meet and have met literally hundreds of people a day, before the perspex and floor signs, before the masks and gloves and I had the shit frightened out of me for hourly pay but the penny started to drop when the reality didn't match up to the fear I was being fed with. To date, the only person I know had it was asymptomatic and also Trev on here didn't have a great time with it. I also remember Hellfire posting of his father being hospitalised with it. That is not in any way me trying to minimise the effect it had on anyone I've mentioned and I genuinely feel bad for those who have been diagnosed and had to deal with the fear involved.

I shitted bricks about the whole thing very early on and it took a good long while for the penny to drop. It has been blown out of all proportion. My old man died of viral pneumonia, but as he had a pretty fucking severe underlying condition it was accepted as something that happens. My grandmother also had viral pneumonia or influenza causing pneumonia (which I guess is viral pneumonia) but she was 90 and so it was accepted as part of the cycle of life. No sick cunt of a doctor made a video on youtube describing in detail the mechanical horrors of how either of them died to indoctrinate us all with the awful fear of it happening to someone we know and nobody was contact traced to see who killed either of them, but if it was viral in nature, It had to come from somewhere and in the current situation the media would be finding the latest scapegoat to make me feel like they were both hard done by but it simply isn't like that in reality.

Covid is not what it is made out to be and more and more evidence is coming out every day to support this and yet we persist with the overreaction. It is not right. I think it is no coincidence that some smart cunt coined the term "The new normal" right at the beginning when no one had a clue how it would be in 6 months time and it was already being sold as permanent. What the fuck, marketing kicking in at the very beginning? That doesn't sound very compassionate to me and I think we are living through one of the greatest media driven con jobs of all time. That doesn't exclude Covid-19 from being real, just saying that it has been and still is frighteningly overblown. What a clusterfuck. We will soon see what the punchline is to all of this and we will figure out why speaking out against it is the new heresy, but my fear is that by then it will be too late to stop whatever was the real point of the exercise and we will indeed be all living the horror that is Our New Normal or The Great Reset or Build Back Better or whatever the fuck three word mass hypnotic phrase is on it next week.

That is my own perspective on it so far anyway.

[Pedrito]

I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.

Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.

It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.

You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.

I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Those RTÉ fucks sure know how to put the boot in... 

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1021/1172863-robots-taking-jobs/


The Great Reset. Coming to a town near you.... 

[Pedrito]

RTE has never had any tact and that's going back 30-40 years. They'll always run with these retarded stories just at the wrong moment.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.

Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.

It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.

You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.

I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.

I 99.99% agree with all of that. The other 0.01% is having a can with his lunch because he's working from home so fuck it 

[Kurt Cocaine]

Enjoy that beer Chris... 

Right, so we're flogging politicians and journalists now, yeah?

[Pedrito]

I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.

Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.

It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.

You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.

I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.

I 99.99% agree with all of that. The other 0.01% is having a can with his lunch because he's working from home so fuck it 

I'm totally on board with the 0.01%, fuck it I've bever felt so well rested  it shouldn't be the reason we give into the new normal would be my point I suppose.

[astfgyl]

I'd definitely be on board with what you're saying in terms of the 'new normal'. I find it very strange that in such a minute space of time many now seem to think that this way of life should be the way forward i.e. the working from home craic, the distancing, the entire non-questioning of whether these measures are really needed at all.

Massive companies like Google in the blink of an eye decided that everyone stays at home until next July..why? I get that loads of their jobs CAN be done from home, but why this extended date? It just all seeems to have been adapted with gusto, and while I see the positives to it, I can also see a whole negative aspect to the entire thing and indeed I would question if much of the 'new normal' has in fact anything at all to do with Covid.

It seems like people are wanting to dispense with the old and embrace some new way of life that has never been tried or tested. It has worked for them in the short term. I get that people with kids or babies are relieved that they don't have to trek to work everyday but I also wonder if we hVen't bought into this idea of the office and commuting as all negative and don't realise the positive impacts of getting out of your house, dressed properly, and going out into the world everyday. How good is it for a society to have an entire population not even leaving their house to work? And when they do it's head down, no talking or interacting, or at least as little of it as possible.

You see I'd be of the opinion that maybe things were nothing near as bad as we tend to go on about. Human interaction, working together, workplaces, busy streets with people going about their business..it's actually a good thing, and working in your khaki shorts in front of a computer screen and only really interacting with possibly a wife, girlfriend, kids and small social circle, is not a long term solution to anything. Bring back the old normal, there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe some adjustments to the old working week, but this locking ourselves in our houses, pretending humanity can go on like this indefinitely is absurd.

I always go back to the idea that if everyone is going one way, you need to be thinking hard about going the other way. The whole country was gone mad buying houses back before the bubble burst, we saw the result of that hysteria. Does that mean that buying a house is a bad idea..absoutely not. What it does mean is that it doesn't take society long to get swept along on a wave, and that wave becomes a monster in its own right. The cynical, critical eye is needed now more than ever.

I 99.99% agree with all of that. The other 0.01% is having a can with his lunch because he's working from home so fuck it 

I'm totally on board with the 0.01%, fuck it I've bever felt so well rested  it shouldn't be the reason we give into the new normal would be my point I suppose.

Well said, Pedrito. You have a habit of articulating the point better than I do a lot of the time. I got a few days off work while being tested and I had no complaints at the time. It's not a future I would look forward to though for exactly the points you've made.

Anyone watch the Scott Atlas interview with Freddie Sayers yet? Really good stuff from the both of them. Sayers is a decent interviewer and Atlas is highly impressive. Probably the best I've heard speak on the whole thing. Devoid of drama, amd refuses to put the boot into Fauci when given the chance. A thoroughly rational guy. link again: https://unherd.com/thepost/scott-atlas-im-disgusted-and-dismayed/ The title of the thing is misleading as he makes his point a lot better than that would suggest.

[Kurt Cocaine]

♥️Big Donnie♥️

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10221168752119913&id=1578426990&sfnsn=scwshwa