Think there was a similar thread on MI. Which I enjoyed and didnt see one here so
when I saw the Danzig Thread instead of adding a comment of how I dont get them I thought of this topic.
Anyways here are a few of my opinions im sure most will not appreciate
Anthrax - terrible band , no other comment.
Danzig - although i do appreciate some of Glenns work (the odd misfit song), but Danzig not for me!
Metal Elitists - most gigs are full of them - i dont care that you still have your Wacken 1995 band still on your arm.
Album reviews - its only someone elses opinion , what the f*ck do they know
Metalheads who start threads complaining about trivial sh1te do my head in 8)
Anthrax are the only one of the big four to release anything genuinely decent since 1993.
Chuck Behler was a very good drummer.
Poland & Samuelson > Friedman & Menza
War Metal= Edgelord Grindcore
I've never cared for Iron Maiden. They just don't interest me. Which is weird since I like NES/SNES era chiptunes which are all basically Iron Maiden instrumentals
I also don't understand Danzig at all. The first album in particular is one of the worst things I've ever heard but lots of people love it. The vocals sound like he's taking the piss. It sounds like a drunk person you'd hear singing while walking past your house at 3am
Quote from: Hambeast on January 04, 2019, 11:50:09 AM
I also don't understand Danzig at all. The first album in particular is one of the worst things I've ever heard but lots of people love it. The vocals sound like he's taking the piss. It sounds like a drunk person you'd hear singing while walking past your house at 3am
:laugh: totally agree!!
King Diamond solo stuff is far better than Mercyful Fate
James Labrie is a good singer
The only good thing about Led Zeppelin were the drums!
Quote from: Hambeast on January 04, 2019, 11:50:09 AM
I've never cared for Iron Maiden.
Not controversial they are a terrible band right up there with Judas Priest.
King Diamond is fucking terrible. nearly pissed myself laughing the first time i heard his "singing"
I've heard comparisons between King Diamond and The Muppets, which is fair...
QuoteMetal Elitists - most gigs are full of them - i dont care that you still have your Wacken 1995 band still on your arm.
Would you not just call someone like this a filthy cunt?
Quote from: damienk666 on January 04, 2019, 04:48:11 PM
QuoteMetal Elitists - most gigs are full of them - i dont care that you still have your Wacken 1995 band still on your arm.
Would you not just call someone like this a filthy cunt?
Aye, but it's all part if being "Kvlt"
I think most traditional heavy metal is utter bollox.
I've never understood this 'metal elitist' tag. Do you just mean people who go to underground metal gigs, or what?
Any gig I have been to in Ireland in the last 10 years had the usual mix of metal fans, bored girlfriends of band members and curious passers by, but Ive yet to see this secret enclave of elitists.
Quote from: Slaughterday on January 05, 2019, 12:15:52 AM
I've never understood this 'metal elitist' tag.
Hence the tread title, I don't expect the majority of people to understand or accept my opinion.
There always has and always will be an elitist element within the metal scene.
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 05, 2019, 09:10:48 AM
There always has and always will be an elitist element within the metal scene.
yep i know plenty of them. retards.
Quote from: Paul keohane on January 05, 2019, 09:10:48 AM
There always has and always will be an elitist element within the metal scene.
Same in every music genre dude.
In every community or subculture. Post something stupid on a Linux or BSD forum and face the wrath of very angry nerds.
Jazz snobs... wow. A determined bunch.
The best Judas Priest album, by a very long way, since Painkiller is Jugulator.
Janick Gers shouldn't be fucked out of Iron Maiden. Steve Harris should. He's the problem.
Kreator were far more interesting when they tried to stop being a metal band than they ever have been since they decided to be one again.
Vixen are one of my fave bands. Ratt are better than Motley Crue.
Metal music never really recovered from it's death in the mid 90s. This endless barage of touring bands form the 80s , Slayer, Overkill, DRI, Metallica is a joke and papers over the cracks.
Quote from: Don Gately on January 25, 2019, 01:48:12 PM
Metal music never really recovered from it's death in the mid 90s. This endless barage of touring bands form the 80s , Slayer, Overkill, DRI, Metallica is a joke and papers over the cracks.
Wow, I was just looking at some of the releases from new bands between 2013 and 2015 and thinking, "That was one helluva fucking come back for a genre!"
In other views, I also never, ever got the attraction with Anthrax.
A handful of songs aside, I think Primordial are quite boring.
I also don't care a whole heap about Thin Lizzy or Rory Gallagher.
And I'm also in the "traditional metal is bollox" camp. I got into metal through Thrash and the attraction for me was the speed and aggression. Never really cared about anything metallic before I heard "Battery" as a nipper.
While I'm getting this all off my chest - I think most "classic" black metal is utterly lightweight musically. Could never understand how that music was supposed to come across as "evil" with all those melodies.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on January 25, 2019, 02:47:41 PM
And I'm also in the "traditional metal is bollox" camp. I got into metal through Thrash and the attraction for me was the speed and aggression.
I was the same until my mid-twenties. Thought Maiden were a sissy joke that Iced Earth, etc., just retold in ever-worsening declinations. Two things changed that for me; seeing Maiden live at a festival and thinking the spectacle was so good I wanted to see them again but next time knowing the songs; and Death's cover of Painkiller, which made me check out Priest through a different lens.
Overall, still don't rate traditional metal as highly as thrash, death, or black, but every so often a band like Slough Feg or Eternal Champion come along and I just can't stop listening to them. Also, despite the amount of unmitigated cringe, Priest > Maiden.
Jake E Lee Ozzy is better than Randy Rhoads Ozzy
Dark Tranquility are a much superior band to At The Gates
Quote from: Anvil on January 04, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
The only good thing about Led Zeppelin were the drums!
Bonham was a shite drummer and if he didn't choke on his own barf he wouldn't be regarded how he is.
Also, Led Zeppelin were a bag of wet shite anyway
Quote from: Ducky on January 25, 2019, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: Anvil on January 04, 2019, 12:08:52 PM
The only good thing about Led Zeppelin were the drums!
Bonham was a shite drummer and if he didn't choke on his own barf he wouldn't be regarded how he is.
Also, Led Zeppelin were a bag of wet shite anyway
Whatever your view on zepplin fair enough but Bonham a shite drummer. What ya on about. He's a fucking beast of a drummer. There's controversial opinions but that's just plain wrong.
Diabolus in Musica and undisputed attitude are both good albums.
And Justice for All and ride the lightning aren't( with the exception of a few classic tracks) .
Black Metal is absolute wank bar a few songs.
And finally - metal bands play too loud live- I regularly go to non metal gigs and the sound is always better. I appreciate metal is a far more intense/intricate genre than any other but should it require a set of ear plugs to hear things properly?
Quote from: Ducky on January 25, 2019, 06:32:19 PM
Bonham was a shite drummer and if he didn't choke on his own barf he wouldn't be regarded how he is.
The average person who enjoys Zeppelin has no idea how Bonham died.
Was he stabbed to death by Varg Vikernes?
Yup. Varg got zero tolerance when it comes to immigrant songs.
Quote from: Bogmetaller on January 26, 2019, 12:12:38 PM
Diabolus in Musica and undisputed attitude are both good albums.
Love Undisputed Attitude. Diabolus has its moments I guess, but it's far more junk than good.
Love Undisputed Attitude. Diabolus has its moments I guess, but it's far more junk than good.
[/quote]
Always loved the melody of UA- totally different from any Slayer album in that sense with the possible exception of Show no Mercy. Diabolus was the first Slayer album I ever heard so will always have a soft spot for it.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 26, 2019, 12:35:48 PM
Quote from: Ducky on January 25, 2019, 06:32:19 PM
Bonham was a shite drummer and if he didn't choke on his own barf he wouldn't be regarded how he is.
The average person who enjoys Zeppelin has no idea how Bonham died.
By that I mean his death brought an undeserved reverence.
He was obviously a technically sound player, but like Nico McBrain his style is just painful to listen to.
Quote from: hellfire on January 27, 2019, 12:01:19 AM
Quote from: Bogmetaller on January 26, 2019, 12:12:38 PM
Diabolus in Musica and undisputed attitude are both good albums.
Love Undisputed Attitude. Diabolus has its moments I guess, but it's far more junk than good.
Yeah have always loved Undisputed attitude and as for Diabolus about 2 ok songs rest is total muck!
Metal in the 90s was just as good as the 80s
I wouldn't consider that controversial. The early nineties gave us the second wave of black metal, some incredible doom metal and doom death. Being too young at the time to dive very far into a lot of it and merely dipping the odd toe in here and there, the more mainstream end of things, though often maligned now, was great at the time.
Quote from: Trev on January 29, 2019, 01:16:01 PM
Metal in the 90s was just as good as the 80s
I would phrase it differently. Metal came out in the 90's which was the equal of the best stuff of the 80's.
However, overall, the level of dross which came out in the 90's greatly outweighs that which shat on the 80's. When the 90's got bad, as it frequently did, it was abominable.
Let's say the bottom of the barrel was further down in the 90's. :laugh:
Quote from: Juggz on January 29, 2019, 01:33:32 PM
Quote from: Trev on January 29, 2019, 01:16:01 PM
Metal in the 90s was just as good as the 80s
I would phrase it differently. Metal came out in the 90's which was the equal of the best stuff of the 80's.
However, overall, the level of dross which came out in the 90's greatly outweighs that which shat on the 80's. When the 90's got bad, as it frequently did, it was abominable.
Let's say the bottom of the barrel was further down in the 90's. :laugh:
That's probably a better way of putting it alright :laugh:
Although I know the older heads here would have no time for nu-metal but it was my entrance into metal so I still have a soft spot for it, even if there's very few albums I'd still listen to
the 90's was the best time for metal!
Quote from: blessed1 on January 29, 2019, 02:00:49 PM
the 90's was the best time for metal!
Yeah, if you didn't grow up in the 80's.....
Because you could still enjoy all the great 80's metal all the way through the 90's :laugh:
Quote from: Juggz on January 29, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
Because you could still enjoy all the great 80's metal all the way through the 90's :laugh:
Hahaha :laugh:
Soulside Journey is the best Darkthrone album.
That's more a statement of fact than a controversial opinion.
Darkthrone are one of the worst metal bands I can think of.
NSBM is about as dangerous as a rubber spork and about as politically relevant.
Quote from: Scáthach on February 06, 2019, 10:19:15 PM
NSBM is about as dangerous as a rubber spork and about as politically relevant.
Hugely controversial alright
Quote from: Mithrandir on February 05, 2019, 03:14:42 PM
Soulside Journey is the best Darkthrone album.
The Underground Resistance is actually the best Darkthrone album
Alice in chains are so overrated!
The post reunion stuff is fairly naff. I don't understand the praise for the "Black Gives Way to Blue" album at all.
No Layne, No Chain.
I really dislike a lot of the newer sludge bands here at the moment. It really boring and not angry or nihilistic enough. Just crap "southern"/grove/stoner metal with harsh vocals.
more Black flag's My war, less Down/ C.o.c please
agreed. More Thug, less Drugs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljXsZ7IodUc
Quote from: Makeshiftatomsmasher on February 15, 2019, 02:55:00 PM
I really dislike a lot of the newer sludge bands here at the moment. It really boring and not angry or nihilistic enough. Just crap "southern"/grove/stoner metal with harsh vocals.
more Black flag's My war, less Down/ C.o.c please
Where I do like a bit of the stoner sludge myself, and enjoy a fair few of the irish bands in the scene, the whole doom/sludge crossover genre internationally is absolutely flooded with fucking shit. I'm in a group on facebook for people to post their bands and 90% of them are identikit garbage that has the image and fuck all else going for it. Every now and again some great stuff gets through but it's hard to find.
There was a great article lately about how the stoner doom/stoner sludge scene is saturated because it's an easy genre for bar rock bands to latch on to and they almost get auto-accepted by most fans for having the image and a groove regardless of their quality. I must try find it.
Agree with both of ye. Do wonder, is it also because, there really hasen't been a scene for this style in Ireland for a long time, so when bands do start, it'll be the most obvious common denominator stuff that will be milked. Would the same people who like these stoner bands be arsed with say Noothgrush or Leech milk?
Ugh. Editing my initial post because really what it boils down to are the kind of sludge me and Steo are talking about came from the Black Flag influence in the hardcore/powerviolence thing in the late 80s early 90s anyway (Dystopia, Noothgrush, the Bovine bands, etc), the more Black Sabbath influenced Down/COC/Crowbar thing is from the metal scene, and really I don't see any cross over beyond Neurosis, Eyehategod and Sleep , maybe "Our Problem" era Iron Monkey (which, I'm sorry, absolutely sucks shit compared to the feral monstrosity of the s/t EP), which I guess are the bands the metal people ran with as influences.
Parallel developments with very different results. And the former has never really been more than a handful of bands anyway at a time, particularly here. The "sludge" bands here are from the metal side of the fence for the most part and reflect those influences. I don't know of any band here influenced by the more aggro/Black Flag/Melvins end of things.
There are some cool bands in what you'd loosely term sludge/doom here I think - Slomatics still rule all, Soothsayer, Nomadic Rituals and Owlcrusher all rule in my book. Onkalo were great, really bummed they aren't around anymore.
Actually here's one that kind of relates to that post and one I was talking about with the bandmates last night:
aside from death/black metal (and maybe hardcore/grindcore), metal vocalists who use harsh vocals instead of trying to sing are lazy fuckers that hinder their own music.
Gonna use Tribulation as the handy example here but many of the aforementioned "sludge" bros are also equally guilty.
Mu Cephei sound promising to me in an early Moss kinda way.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on February 15, 2019, 04:23:51 PM
aside from death/black metal (and maybe hardcore/grindcore), metal vocalists who use harsh vocals instead of trying to sing are lazy fuckers that hinder their own music.
Gonna use Tribulation as the handy example here but many of the aforementioned "sludge" bros are also equally guilty.
I think 'lazy' is a bit of a harsh assessment, I'd imagine many vocalists who use that style do so out of neccessity as they may not be particularly good 'clean' singers. I do see where you're going with Tribulation though...I wouldn't have liked clean vocals on, say, TFOD, but they certainly would have made TCOTN a more interesting listen.
Of course it's a harsh assessment, this the controversial opinions thread. :laugh:
As I've said many times in reference to Tribulation, you don't need to go clean to introduce variety...and Morbus Chron is the best contemporary example of that.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on February 15, 2019, 04:23:51 PM
Actually here's one that kind of relates to that post and one I was talking about with the bandmates last night:
aside from death/black metal (and maybe hardcore/grindcore), metal vocalists who use harsh vocals instead of trying to sing are lazy fuckers that hinder their own music.
Gonna use Tribulation as the handy example here but many of the aforementioned "sludge" bros are also equally guilty.
On the other hand you have the likes of Primordial where Nemtheanga gave up the lazy roaring and started proper singing and ruined the whole fucking band :'(
Quote from: Grim Reality on February 18, 2019, 10:56:16 PM
On the other hand you have the likes of Primordial where Nemtheanga gave up the lazy roaring and started proper singing and ruined the whole fucking band :'(
jaisus
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 16, 2019, 05:38:24 PM
you don't need to go clean to introduce variety...and Morbus Chron is the best contemporary example of that.
Absolutely, their vocals are sublime. It's annoying when death/black bands who make otherwise exciting music opt to go for completely monotone harsh vocals.
Quote from: Mags on February 19, 2019, 01:05:22 PM
Quote from: Grim Reality on February 18, 2019, 10:56:16 PM
On the other hand you have the likes of Primordial where Nemtheanga gave up the lazy roaring and started proper singing and ruined the whole fucking band :'(
jaisus
You better believe it Mags!
The early/mid albums had a golden atmosphere and vibe, unlike anything else in metal. The rougher, more amateur vocal style blended seamlessly with the instrumental work to create a coherent whole. Special stuff. He lost the plot in recent years with the vocal histrionics which grate far too often for me to be able to listen to the new stuff at all.
I didn't think that was even a controversial opinion :laugh:
I'm a fan of both eras, despite being critical of a couple of later albums. You can't deny the charm of the early stuff and how they really developed a unique sound or of their influences. The demo and even Imrama are clumsy at times in their mixing of doom and BM. You can see the seams quite easily, but the essence of the band is present from the start. But, despite being much more refined these days, that essence is still loud and clear to my ear.
I think Primordial are for the most part coma-inducing, but the lad's vocals on "The Coffin Ships" give the goosebumps a run-out every time.
Eloy Casagrande (the young lad in Sepultura) is one of the best drummers in metal today.
Quote from: Ducky on February 20, 2019, 08:54:33 PM
Eloy Casagrande (the young lad in Sepultura) is one of the best drummers in metal today.
Nowt controversial about that at all.
Quote from: Ducky on February 20, 2019, 08:54:33 PM
Eloy Casagrande (the young lad in Sepultura) is one of the best drummers in metal today.
That's just fact. Phenomenal drummer.
Kamelots album Poetry for the poisoned is as good as karma and the black halo.
Behemoth are all style, no substance.
IMO of course.
Behemoth comment has some truth to it. I'm a fan of the band but they tread very close to being all style as you put it. I think on record generally they have the music to back it up. But the show last week irked me somewhat. It was a show rather than a gig and it was a fantastic experience, however there was too much pre-recorded material pumped through the PA and costume changes etc to warrant seeing them repeatedly.
Primordial are indeed insufferable these days. I'm a big fan of their earlier work and follwed them from early on. Seeing them in Slattery's etc back in the day was quite special. The drop off point for me was Gathering Wilderness, since then their material sounds like a concerted effort has been made to produce material that would be favorably received on the european festival circuit, fists in the air, crowd participation i.e. a load of bollocks. Obviously I'm delighted they stuck at it and have found huge success but it sounds like a different band to me these days.
Melechesh and Nile are both much better on paper than they are on record.
Edit: Though Melechesh are still far more interesting than Nile, whose popularity I don't really understand.
Ok, here's one, Bolt Thrower's entire discography is a total snoozefest. I've tried so many times at this stage and I just can't understand the seemingly universal praise they get. Totally middle of the road.
I find them dull as fuck too.
Jaysus, For Victory is one of my top metal albums no doubt, absolutely love it. One of my favourite vocal performances.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 22, 2019, 08:36:16 PM
Jaysus, For Victory is one of my top metal albums no doubt, absolutely love it. One of my favourite vocal performances.
Second this. Don't think they're a band that you need everything they did but For Victory is an essential death metal album for me.
Yeah agree with the don't need everything comment. I really rate For Victory and Ivth Crusade but the rest is pretty much the same thing over and over. Honor Valor Pride is a shocker for example.
For Victory I reckon is essential. The rest of their output is definitely on the higher end of quality but I don't think you'd miss it if you didn't hear it
Those Once Loyal is a decent release too.
In battle there is no law, Realm of Chaos and Warmaster are all essential Death Metal albums imo.
Agree with original poster about Anthrax, I like "Inside Out" and "Only". I think Testament wipe the floor with them.
Metallica have had some good songs since the black album, but in general it's all been very middle of the road, that last album being considered in anyway a return to form......not having it.
Megadeth have gotten inconsistent since "countdown to extinction" but they still bring out lots of quality. Out of all the trash bands, what Testament are stll releasing is head and shoulders above the rest, they've still got "it"
I understand that this may cause offence to many, but "Angel of Retribution" is my favourite Judas Priest album ???
It was my introduction to the band & let's face it, it's got some serious riffage and phenomenal lead guitar work. I'm not really familar with their other albums bar Painkiller, which is obviously amazing but I can only list about 5 songs from it off the top of my head.
There were 2 great threads on the old site about peoples favourite JP songs/albums. I need to sort my shit out.
Quote from: Crosdale on February 27, 2019, 07:13:59 PM
Out of all the trash bands, what Testament are stll releasing is head and shoulders above the rest, they've still got "it"
While I wouldn't
disagree with what you're saying, I don't think that Testament are "head and shoulders" above what Exodus are still releasing.
I tried to listen to Awake the other day, but I just cannot hack La Brie at any point in his career, neither after nor before he supposedly "destroyed" his voice. He just sounds like a terrible, caterwauling actor. I don't think that's particularly controversial, but it does imply that I rate When Dream And Day Unite very highly but completely pan everything else they've ever done. Would I go so far as to say I even prefer the Majesty demoes? Ah, go on sure, I'm feeling saucy!
I'm beginning to think that 80's Rush was them at their best.
Quote from: Juggz on March 07, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
I'm beginning to think that 80's Rush was them at their best.
Took me a long while to appreciate 80s Rush. When I got into them I went straight from the proggy stuff to Power Windows and just found it too different and didn't like the guitar being pushed into the background. Going back and getting Moving Pictures tied it together for me though.
Still, I'd tend to reach more for their 90s stuff these days. What a band
I only really got into them after Rush In Rio came out. That DVD opened my eyes and I was drawn to the 70's and 90's stuff initially. I picked up the 80's CDs but never really warmed to them until recently and now I can't get enough.
Quote from: Giggles on February 27, 2019, 10:18:26 PM
I understand that this may cause offence to many, but "Angel of Retribution" is my favourite Judas Priest album ???
I'm not really familar with their other albums bar Painkiller
Favourite of two?
Necros Christos would be a lot better if they eased up on the interludes. They really took the piss with Domedon Doxomedon, be quicker to build the fuckin temple.
Quote from: Angel of Debt on March 08, 2019, 12:44:09 AM
Necros Christos would be a lot better if they eased up on the interludes. They really took the piss with Domedon Doxomedon, be quicker to build the fuckin temple.
haha now this i agree with!
I think they got it right with Domedon Dexomedon. On the past releases it was a bit much but DD is a masterpiece.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 08, 2019, 10:49:27 AM
I think they got it right with Domedon Dexomedon. On the past releases it was a bit much but DD is a masterpiece.
Its super well done, but 18 interludes is just too much for me.
I thought they got the balance better on Doom of the Occult meself.
Controversy.... lets see....
Mastodon - are pish, on record, in small clubs, arenas, festivals, support, headliner the lot.. Believe me if tried to'get' what a lot of other insist is amazing about them.....
Neurosis - are not heavy. Again I've tried, live, on record the lot. Not pish. Just not heavy. Some of the vocals are a bit irritating too.
Clutch - are beyond dull. I really don't get it.
Metallica - Justice for all is better than Master of puppets - to be fair its only by a short hair and on any day those toe could change places.
Primordial - the more recent stuff is great, the early stuff, not so much.
Black Sabbath - Technical Ecstasy and Never say die are perfectly fine albums.
Rush - instead of wasting time trying to decide what is their best album just listen to it all!! Its all good!
right that should do for now. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
The lead playing on Pleasure To Kill makes some tracks near-unlistenable. Im all for chaotic solos but most of these are just plain shit.
I agree that Mastodon are pish!
Spandex. What the fuck! Watching Maiden live from 81 and it feels like being stuck behind sunday cyclists! Horrendous.
Defo should have cracked one out beforehand...
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 17, 2019, 12:30:57 AM
Defo should have cracked one out beforehand...
A hole is a hole, and tight is tight.
Maybe I've said too much...
Back to Seattle 89
::)
I still like picture discs and have neither the ear nor the stereo to tell the difference between those and a black LP.
Anvil have always been shite.
That's not controversial that's just fact...
Rust In Peace is the best album by any of the Big 4.
Doom is immensely boring bollocks. Listen to some cunt play the same riff for half an hour, awful stuff
Quote from: Born of Fire on April 14, 2019, 11:45:22 PM
Doom is immensely boring bollocks. Listen to some cunt play the same riff for half an hour, awful stuff
I always associated doom with My dying bride and Anathema yeats back,but doom seems to be something entirely different by the sounds of it.
Procession from Chile are considered a doom metal band (i think),they are great.But take Bell Witch, who are also considered a doom metal band,such utter shite.As you said, immensrly boring half hour long nothingness!.
Im still not sure what doom is,but most of it is a hard listen to these ears anyway.
I think the problem with picture discs is that they are supposed to age poorly. I have a small number and the sound is fine on them. My only problem with them is that you can't enjoy the artwork or read the song titles while listening to them.
The comeback albums from Exodus (Tempo of the Damned), Death Angel (Art of Dying) and Forbidden (Omega Wave) are better than any of their previous releases
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 30, 2019, 09:59:27 PM
Rust In Peace is the best album by any of the Big 4.
While I don't agree personally I don't think this is a controversial opinion.
Quote from: Trev on April 15, 2019, 11:11:41 AM
The comeback albums from Exodus (Tempo of the Damned), Death Angel (Art of Dying) and Forbidden (Omega Wave) are better than any of their previous releases
I'd probably agree on Exodus and Forbidden, but Act III is in my all-time classic list and cannot be defeated. Art of Dying is a belter though, probably their second best for me.
The more of an influence Mike Patton had, the worse FNM became.
Quote from: Juggz on March 07, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
I'm beginning to think that 80's Rush was them at their best.
Just read this..agreed!
Quote from: Juggz on April 19, 2019, 02:56:59 PM
The more of an influence Mike Patton had, the worse FNM became.
That's an interesting one. KFAD is my favourite FNM album so I can't really agree there. It's also the first one I got into though so that is probably a lot to do with that. I think he did his very best to ruin The Real Thing with those awful vocals to be fair, so you do have a bit of a point. If he had done his later style on that it would be some unreal album but every time it's on the nasally vocals really put me right off at the same time as loving the music. I wonder how much he had to do with Sol Invictus, which I thought was great at first but now have no desire to listen to.
I think The Real Thing is their best album. I live his nasal vocals on it.
I don't know what my favourite FNM album is anymore. It was KFAD at some point, for a long time, but now I couldn't pick a favourite tbh. The Real Thing is a monumental listen, nasally vocals and all!
Sol Invictus definitely sounds like a Patton album as opposed to a FNM album, I can't abide it - or the vast majority of Patton's other material (I loved the Peeping Tom album at the time but it hasn't aged well).
KFAD is my least favourite of the pre-split FNM/Patton albums, the flat production has a lot to do with that but there's a hefty amount of filler there too. While Angel Dust and The Real Thing are definitely their best work, I've played them to death and so AOTY is my go-to FNM album these days. The production's a but odd on that one as well but the tunes are cracking for the most part and it's got some of Patton's best vocal work.
Sol Invictus is a tough listen but I love the song Sunny Side Up. Any song that can start with the line 'I'll be your Leprechaun' gets a thumbs up from me.
I know a fella whose missus used to call him her little leprechaun so that line is a bit ruined for me.
Regarding The Real Thing again, I do still love it but it's despite the vocals. It isn't even every line of every song, sometimes he sings a few lines grand and then it's back up his nose again. I find it especially baffling that he did it on purpose but that's just him all over.
Out of his other projects, Fantomas' The Directors Cut and Tomahawk's first and last albums are great. Mr. Bungle have 3 brilliant albums as well and I also quite like the Crank 2 soundtrack he did. Then there are things like Adult Themes for Voice and Pranzo Oltransista which should never have seen the light of day.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 15, 2020, 03:11:43 PM
I know a fella whose missus used to call him her little leprechaun so that line is a bit ruined for me.
That sounds pervy as fuck in fairness :laugh:
Love the Real Thing vocals. They used put me off but he sounds so unique and different on it that it stopped grating very quickly for me. A bit like Mustaine, the personality in the vocal trumps the actual sound of the vocal.
Hate over used intros on albums. Don't get me wrong, a decent introduction is cool and adds to a track, but on every song it gets old really quick. Point in case, Hacked Up For BBQ by Mortician. I quite like the album despite all the samples intros.
Yeah, I think the endless samples in Fade, the second Arcane Sun album are over the top and unnecessary. One or two, fine, but between every song it's just too much for me. Great album otherwise, apart from the inexplicable samba instrumental at the end :laugh:
After all these years of listening to it I never knew Mike Patton was putting on a nasally type voice. I thought that was how he sounded back then. I think he had a super voice. I don't listen to the more wacky stuff he does.
I can't stand the sound of Robert Plant.
Quote from: Necro Red on April 16, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
Hate over used intros on albums. Don't get me wrong, a decent introduction is cool and adds to a track, but on every song it gets old really quick. Point in case, Hacked Up For BBQ by Mortician. I quite like the album despite all the samples intros.
AFAIK they actually did all the intros live as well! Mortician are a funny case really - all the ingredients are, let's face it, pretty shit - yet somehow it works.....
Quote from: Necro Red on April 16, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
Hate over used intros on albums. Don't get me wrong, a decent introduction is cool and adds to a track, but on every song it gets old really quick. Point in case, Hacked Up For BBQ by Mortician. I quite like the album despite all the samples intros.
Case in point: Necroticism. Opening the album, fine but before every song? Ruins the flow of the album.
Quote from: Circlepit on April 16, 2020, 10:12:09 AM
After all these years of listening to it I never knew Mike Patton was putting on a nasally type voice. I thought that was how he sounded back then. I think he had a super voice. I don't listen to the more wacky stuff he does.
I can't stand the sound of Robert Plant.
I used to think that was just his voice back then as well, but when I heard the first Mr. Bungle album I realised something was amiss. It actually bugged me way less when I thought he just sounded like that naturally. Funnily enough all this talk of it is giving me the urge to put it on. Grand weather for it too.
I can't stand Robert Plant either
Metallica at Slane were awful. James looked like shit. Of course we now know he was off the wagon.
Black Sabbath are not the Godfathers of heavy metal, they are just one of the great heavy metal bands. Sharon made up the Godfather thing in the 00s, she told young bands on Ozzfest to say it in interviews. Before that when bands were asked about their influences they mentioned Hendrix, Zeppelin, Purple, Sabbath and more.
Quote from: Carnage on April 16, 2020, 12:58:28 PM
Quote from: Necro Red on April 16, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
Hate over used intros on albums. Don't get me wrong, a decent introduction is cool and adds to a track, but on every song it gets old really quick. Point in case, Hacked Up For BBQ by Mortician. I quite like the album despite all the samples intros.
Case in point: Necroticism. Opening the album, fine but before every song? Ruins the flow of the album.
I love most of the samples on Necrotism. Really add to the vibe of the album for me.
The opening one's fine as an album set-up, but the others just get in the way. I cut them out when I scanned it into iTunes, it works much better as an album.
Not quite the same (agree entirely about Necroticism) bit Pestilence's "Testimony of the Ancients" could be one of my favourite old death metal records if they didn't include pointless fucking interludes after every song. Of course you can skip them, but it spoils the flow of the songs from one to the next.
I only ever owned it on CD (and of course, subsequently ripped it), could well imagine wanting to chuck it if listening on tape or record.
I had that pestilence album for years and i hardly noticed the interludes. I love a good overwrought album in general. Really don't buzz off the brisk, strictly business approach to music at all. Of course it can be done badly but my favourite album is probably The Fragile and it's bloated and meandering to fuck. At that then it still wasn't enough for me and I made my own version that is nearly 4 hours long and still I do be crying out for more when it ends.
I don't mind a bloated album, but that Pestilence record is part death metal classic, part BBC Sound Effects record.
The interludes on Testimony are class, they fit the mood and pacing of the album perfectly.
Jugulator is an album ruined by pointless shit intros for every song which ruin the flow. There are great songs in there and I ripped it into protools to trim the intros off, it makes it a much more enjoyable listen.
Agreed about Testimony, at least they were seperate tracks on the CD so I just excluded them. Resurrection's Embalmed Existence is the worst offender with that Krang-sounding bollox blathering between songs. Again, snipped them out when I ripped it. Aparrently they have a new album with the same shite on it.
Quote from: Juggz on April 16, 2020, 10:34:25 PM
Jugulator is an album ruined by pointless shit intros for every song which ruin the flow. There are great songs in there and I ripped it into protools to trim the intros off, it makes it a much more enjoyable listen.
Jugulator is a decent album. Haven't listened to it in a while but the sunshine always brings out the metal for me. Must give it another go.
On a more controversial note I have a few questions for everyone: What is the heaviest music you know? I bet it won't be Metal for most. It also brings up the point again: What is it exactly that is Metal? The answers to that should draw up a bit of controversy. Are Godflesh Metal? Are 40 Watt Sun Metal? Are Nirvana Metal? And the answer is probably no, but why then do we all talk about them on Metal forums, and how do we decide what fits and what doesn't? Like I know Pet Shop Boys don't fit but what is the dividing line? Is it the guitar?
Stuck on Testimony of the Ancients there as I haven't spun it in years and nope, want to frisbee it out the window with those utterly shite interludes :laugh:
Of course Godflesh are metal, what else would they be? 40 Watt Sun's first would be metal, haven't heard the second one, I believe they went a different route on that.
Heaviest thing I've ever heard would probably be early Swans or Neubaten, maybe Author & Punisher for more recent stuff.
Heaviest thing I've ever experienced was the Prodigy live. They opened with The Day Is My Enemy and it was crushing
Honestly, it felt like being suffocated. The sheer weight of the bass and the general volume was complete sensory overload, it made Meshuggah's live show feel like Avril Lavigne
Im not mad about long intros before songs,but im a massive fan of Testimony and Necroticism,those intros are a huge part of those albums.
Yeah Prodigy live sound is massive,bass drum vibrating through your chest!
Stuff like early Godflesh and Pitchshifter were always put into the bracket of heaviest stuff around years back,i think its impossible to tell really.
As I understand it, and I'm open to correction, but Godflesh came out of the punk scene and many of its musical roots and even its ethos or thematic fixations are from there, too. JB grew up in a squat, I think, and was active in the punk scene, notably with Napalm Death. Grindcore was a hardcore punk phenomenon but was influenced by death and thrash whereas industrial was purely a punk movement. The likes of Throbbing Gristle came from the punk scene, I think, and was like a logical extension of the philosophy that anybody can be in a band, even if you're ropey at playing an instrument. They went further and didn't even really bother learning any technique and focused on the weird, unpredictable noise side of it. Godflesh drew influence from industrial, and the harshness of grind too but slowed down to Amebix tempos, and thus also Sabbath. They were growing out of the punk scene but the heaviness of their sound appealed to death metal and grind heads.
I think my point is that a lot of the harshness and extremity or heaviness tends to come in from the punk side whereas the actual musicality tends to come from the metal side, which goes back to how the two scenes originally operated. In this day and age the lines are very blurry but you can always follow the trail backwards.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 17, 2020, 01:24:12 AM
Quote from: Juggz on April 16, 2020, 10:34:25 PM
On a more controversial note I have a few questions for everyone: What is the heaviest music you know? I bet it won't be Metal for most. It also brings up the point again: What is it exactly that is Metal? The answers to that should draw up a bit of controversy. Are Godflesh Metal? Are 40 Watt Sun Metal? Are Nirvana Metal? And the answer is probably no, but why then do we all talk about them on Metal forums, and how do we decide what fits and what doesn't? Like I know Pet Shop Boys don't fit but what is the dividing line? Is it the guitar?
I'd assume there would be far heavier soundscapes among electronic music than among metal, but to achieve that level of heaviness in electronic music one probably needs to abstain from pretty much any other music quality as much as noise core did. I would rather question: does it need to be THAT heavy? That sounds to me like having a conversation with someone that SPEAKS LOUD ALL THE TIME EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE NOTHING IMPORTANT TO SAY.
Nirvana were definitely not Metal. If one tries to define metal solely on music then he/she is already missing the point. In any case, they lacked the music features, the aesthetic and the attitude (not saying they didn't have an attitude, just not metal). If it appeals to metal fans or if had been influenced either positively or negativily by heavy metal that's a whole other story. Opeth, Anathema, Alcest, Ulver, all these bands have both metal albums and non-metal albums and I personally suspect that they only appeal to metalheads today due to their members' metal background. I know zero bands that are as popular among metalheads playing similar music having no previous bonds to metal.
Personally I don't understand this pursuit of heaviness in the current doom or doom/death metal scene of today, it's as meaningless to me as Brutal Death Metal with machine drums playing flat blastbeats and linear fills from start to finish. A washing machine at work has probably more dynamics than the extreme of both those genres.
Couldn't agree more. I think some people take it personally when you say something that is heavy is not metal. More often than not the ultra heavy stuff is coming from another source. Obviously there's a lot of mixing of styles that complicates matters but I think the influence of the ultra loud and ultra heavy phenomenon in death and doom to have crept over from the HC scene. Sometimes it works and sometimes it's boring noise, and that can depend on your own mindset at the time but generally over exposure. If there's nothing behind the wall of noise it won't hold my attention for long (with one or two notable exceptions).
Quote from: Paul keohane on April 17, 2020, 08:10:24 AM
Im not mad about long intros before songs,but im a massive fan of Testimony and Necroticism,those intros are a huge part of those albums.
Yeah Prodigy live sound is massive,bass drum vibrating through your chest!
Stuff like early Godflesh and Pitchshifter were always put into the bracket of heaviest stuff around years back,i think its impossible to tell really.
Agree completely about Necroticism. It really added to the whole vibe of that album, especially on tape.
Quote from: Juggz on April 16, 2020, 10:34:25 PM
The interludes on Testimony are class, they fit the mood and pacing of the album perfectly.
Absolutely.
The Doom thing of the last few years got very boring to me very quickly. It seemed to be more of a pursuit of tone than any musical thing and for a lot of bands, an actual good song seems way beyond them.
I've been listening to a lot of ambient type music lately and some of that can be very heavy, but still beautiful. I compare that then to something like power electronics which is heavy on the face of it, but only serves to annoy me for the most part. I find the "heaviest" stuff for me is generally to be found in electronic music of one sort or another but I can't find any joy in the very hard stuff like gabba or the other extreme types. The dubstep idea seemed like it had promise for 5 minutes but got old and derivative very quickly, with a distinct lack of actual good songs, much like the stoner doom thing.
Listening a lot to Moby's Animal Rights album recently and that is really great energetic stuff and I would call that very heavy even though a lot of it is more punk or new wave style than metal of any kind and seems very basic in some ways but it is certainly heavy. Something like Face It from that album is very crushing. October Rust is also very heavy to me, as heavy as anything else really but on the face of it, it seems fairly soft.
Edit: Had Depeche Mode - In Your Room on in the car earlier and it's as heavy as anything while I'm looking at it that way, but obviously DM don't make the cut for discussion in this section, even though they do use a bit of guitar at times. So again, what is the dividing line?
Quote from: Paul keohane on April 17, 2020, 08:10:24 AM
Im not mad about long intros before songs,but im a massive fan of Testimony and Necroticism,those intros are a huge part of those albums.
Yeah Prodigy live sound is massive,bass drum vibrating through your chest!
Stuff like early Godflesh and Pitchshifter were always put into the bracket of heaviest stuff around years back,i think its impossible to tell really.
I always hated the way they only played bits and pieces of songs live and then also played versions that were different from the albums. Saw them a load of times live was good but never amazing then I saw that as Download 2006 in a tent and it was insane they had to stop playing at one point to tell people to calm down because the crowd was going crazy people were climbing up the steel columns holding the tent up then jumping off into the crowd.
The first 2 Berzerker albums also has the Necro Carcass style intos.
I dunno astfgyl man. Ruminating on a heavy metal forum about what makes 'heavy', what is the 'heaviest' and coming up with some ambient, moby and depeche mode suggestions kinda shows it to be a pointless pursuit. It's a meaningless descriptor really, or at least means different things to different people. Clearly, if depeche mode is now a go to 'heavy' band.
I'll stick with Formulas Fatal to the Flesh.
But then I listen to that cos it's pissed off and twisted sounding. Not cos it's 'heavy'.
Quote from: 135150 on April 17, 2020, 07:45:39 AM
Heaviest thing I've ever experienced was the Prodigy live. They opened with The Day Is My Enemy and it was crushing
Honestly, it felt like being suffocated. The sheer weight of the bass and the general volume was complete sensory overload, it made Meshuggah's live show feel like Avril Lavigne
Saw them at the Marquee in cork and the bass was so prominent that my feet were itchy from the ground shaking - never experienced that before. But speaking of parts of the body being affected - seeing SunnO))))) live doesn't do much for the ear drums--without ear plugs you'd be in trouble .
The heaviest music for me is splittercore- dance music that goes up to 1000bpm. I love gabber but how anyone can listen to that shite I'll never know.
Quote from: Grim Reality on April 18, 2020, 09:42:09 AM
I dunno astfgyl man. Ruminating on a heavy metal forum about what makes 'heavy', what is the 'heaviest' and coming up with some ambient, moby and depeche mode suggestions kinda shows it to be a pointless pursuit. It's a meaningless descriptor really, or at least means different things to different people. Clearly, if depeche mode is now a go to 'heavy' band.
I'll stick with Formulas Fatal to the Flesh.
But then I listen to that cos it's pissed off and twisted sounding. Not cos it's 'heavy'.
I think in the most roundabout possible way I agree, or that is sort of what I was getting at. I probably should have came at that a different way and stirred up a bit of controversy by asking what is metal and what isn't rather than what is heavy. Like if there was a new Depeche Mode or some new ambient album I would go to the off topic section to talk about that, even though it could possibly be construed as heavy. Same for The Prodigy for example, I wouldn't get a thread going on it in this section. I wonder myself though how come then that something like Anathema gets a bye when it's pretty far from anything that could be considered metal. No problem to get a thread about them going here. I know they were a bit metal at one point but that is old news. Opeth could be in the same bracket. A prog thread made it on to the main page, too. Burzum's prison albums would probably be okay too, but no metal to be found there. As someone pointed out as well, Nirvana are not metal but probably wouldn't be too out of place for discussion. Author and Punisher is probably on the fence a bit.
You're right it's a pointless argument though because as you say everyone will have their own ideas of what is ok and what is not. Like there is no denying Morbid Angel is metal (that album after heretic was fair fuckin bad now I think of it) and lots of other things but we all seem to draw a line in our heads somewhere between what is metal-associated enough for the main page. Is it an attitude thing, then? Being pissed off and angry enough rather than having any particular instrument. Like there are bands with no guitar, bands with no drums, bands with no bass, electronic based horror things. It's a strange one to try to elucidate but everyone seems to inherently know the answer.
Quote from: Angel of Debt on March 08, 2019, 12:44:09 AM
Necros Christos would be a lot better if they eased up on the interludes. They really took the piss with Domedon Doxomedon, be quicker to build the fuckin temple.
I'm all for the interludes on the first two, haven't listened to DD. That comment did give me a hearty laugh though.
I think DD is the album where all of the interludes finally worked and added a sense of flow to the album. Fucking brilliant record on all fronts (bar the non-descript artwork), in my opinion. Must throw it on again soon.
Quote from: Bogmetaller on April 18, 2020, 10:20:24 AM
The heaviest music for me is splittercore- dance music that goes up to 1000bpm.
I have now heard splittercore. Maybe, by the time the beats get down to the bottom of the k-hole, they've slowed down to a more comfortable 200??
Hate pantera, couldn't give a toss about dimebag. Glad I could get that off my chest.
Quote from: Edgeofdarkness on April 22, 2020, 12:33:40 PM
Hate pantera, couldn't give a toss about dimebag. Glad I could get that off my chest.
Before his death, this was a commonly repeated opinion. And one of the regular criticisms of the band were the horrible guitar solos. But since Dimebag has been canonized by the mongos you could get lynched for saying it.
Compared to the number of criticisms that boiled down to "They were too commercial, they stole everything from Exhorder, their fans are brodude spas", any criticism saying the solos were poor must have accounted for about 1%. On MI it was almost more controversial to say you liked them, and in even more underground circles it's positively taboo.
Yeah, hating Pantera is probably the least controversial opinion to hold these days. I'll defend them till the bitter end. They were a force of nature in their prime and I thought they were Gods when I was a young lad.
Yeah I've never heard complaints about Dimebag's playing before. Everything else about the band, yep, but they were accomplished players.
They desperately needed a second guitarist though, when he was off soloing they sounded so weak. Can't say I'm bothered about either of them being gone, but obviously the circumstances of Diamond (Dimebag me hole) Darrell's death are as fucked up as it gets.
Cowboys From Hell is still good craic. A lot of The Great Southern Trendkill is great. A few classics on Vulgar Display and Far Beyond Driven. I always enjoyed Darrell's solos. Last album is shite. I still have a soft spot for Pantera although they don't get too many listens these days. It's a pity Phil stopped the high pitched stuff after Cowboys though.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 22, 2020, 01:12:52 PM
Yeah, hating Pantera is probably the least controversial opinion to hold these days. I'll defend them till the bitter end. They were a force of nature in their prime and I thought they were Gods when I was a young lad.
Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about Pantera. They were one of the first bands I legitimately felt 'fanatical' about. Obviously I'm discounting glam Pantera (whom I never actually heard a full track by), but everything up to, but excluding Reinventing the Steel, is ace. Could do no wrong in my teenage eyes. I also have to give them a bit of credit, unlike say Sepultura, Slayer and most blatantly, Machine Head, for existing during the nu-metal era and not actually pandering to any of its silly trends. I probably went off them for a bit when I started to delve deeper into the underground, but I think I've come around to them again somewhat.
Same. They were a staple growing up and the retard carry on really appealed to me as a teenager. Check out Power Metal, it's great.
To get the thread back on track... I loved Reinventing the Steel :laugh:
If came out not long before my Leaving Cert, was my first experience of drinking cans in the sunshine, kicking a ball around a park and one of the lads having it on a boom box.
Was a big fan as a young lad,,Cowboys from Hell,Vulgar and Far Beyond driven were spun regularly.Theres a lot of hate for them in certain quarters alright,some people lumped them in with the rise of Nu metal.
Quote from: Ducky on April 22, 2020, 04:51:26 PM
To get the thread back on track... I loved Reinventing the Steel :laugh:
Now that really is controversial! I was patiently waiting for that to release having been into them for years at that stage and my god was I disappointed with every song on it.
I have to give them credit for releasing an album like that in the midst of the nu-metal peak, which in fairness was unashamedly metal. But the songs were just shite. Completely unmemorable, I'd be hard pressed to remember anything off that album.
Quote from: Paul keohane on April 22, 2020, 05:06:08 PM
Was a big fan as a young lad,,Cowboys from Hell,Vulgar and Far Beyond driven were spun regularly.
This, Vulgar particularly. Right place, right time for me. I hate his vocals on FBD though. Never bothered with the pre-CRH albums, what Ixve heard from them wasn't great.
The last two albums were crap, though. Reinventing is one of the worst albums I've heard full stop.
Quote from: Carnage on April 22, 2020, 02:01:40 PM
They desperately needed a second guitarist though, when he was off soloing they sounded so weak.
That was actually one of the things I liked about them, it gave the songs a bit of variety instead of guitar at the same level all the way through. There was always a kick when he went back to rhythm. Bobby G era Overkill used to do that a bit too.
The closest I got to a ritual in the 90s was watching those home videos on repeat :laugh:
Just on Pantera, anyone else see that new Covid themed t-shirt, cover of Vulgar complete with PPE glove on the clenched fist and PPE mask on the face getting the smack.
Wording?
Be Yourself By Yourself Stay Away From Me
Can't remember where I saw it, might have been that godawful EMP merch site
They were savage in their day. Reinventing the steel is better than the great southern trendkill.
I kind of liked Reinventing but it was only really because I was such a big fan, moreso in my younger years, and I really wanted to like it because all things Pantera were an event for me back then. But realistically, Reinventing is below average with a few catchy dumbass moments. Strange how uninspired it was on the back of TGSTK, which was a bleak and creative beast (bar Drag the Waters, which always sounded to me like a poor rewrite of Mouth for War).
Gonna have to give Reinventing a listen tomorrow for the first time in maybe 15 years now.
Thanks for your uncontroversial opinions back there fellas! You've set us "mongos" off to have a rare old time of air guitaring!
Just having a flick around their discography for the first time in a while - I forgot how irredeemably shite Far Beyond Driven is.
FBD is the business. It was so dark and heavy to me at the time. I remember coming back from an athletics event on the bus and getting the driver to stick on the Metal Show. Myself and my mate had our ears pinned to the speakers when JK announced a new Pantera song! He played Slaughter and myself and my pal were just completely floored. I was beginning to dip my toe into death metal around then and this sounded to my very tender earball like death metal. I loved the album when I got the tape too.
Recently made a Pantera best-of for the car. Less than 20 songs which tells how patchy their output is over the course of their career but fuckin hell, those songs are deadly for blaring out the window on a summer's day.
I loved the sludge creeping into their sound on FBD, Anselmo's doing I assume.
Pantera were fucking class. Nu metal my hole.
Quote from: Pedrito on April 22, 2020, 10:27:44 PM
Pantera were fucking class. Nu metal my hole.
Who da fook mentioned Pantera and Nu Metal in the same sentence? :abbath:
The Great Southern Trendkill is their best album, followed by CFH and VDOP. No patience at all any more for the rest of it but I loved it in my teens, all of it, except RTS.
I have a fantastic memory from soon after Dimebag died of being at an afters, a particular chap from the town turns up with a late group, everyone flying form until one lad cracks out an old camcorder (tape one), first chap goes "haha film me doing something mad like the pantera tapes" so we said fuck it, we'll do him in with a dentist's chair of buckfast. Sure he acts up for the camera, "this ones for dimebag man" throwing the horns and all that craic, leans back, then closes his fuckin mouth on the first whoosh off the bottle, whole thing just pools up right into his eyes - which he just opens straight away and starts roaring, "fuck fuck i'm blind", pure panic. Of course we're locked so we think no more of it and leave him suffer it out on the couch. He didn't go blind but I got sick laughing at that tape, it stuck around for months afterwards until a lad filmed something much more decrepit over it.
More of a controversial 'rock' opinion but early Queens of the Stone Age were better than Kyuss.
Quote from: ldj on April 23, 2020, 01:43:24 AM
More of a controversial 'rock' opinion but early Queens of the Stone Age were better than Kyuss.
If you mean commercially, yes.
Blastbeats and fretless bass can both get fucked. Never understood the appeal of either. I've never figured out the appeal of lads like Steve DiGorgio.
I don't mind blasts used very sparingly. They can be nice for impact but cannot stand them for long. Bands who use them relentlessly are unlistenable to me.
Quote from: Juggz on April 23, 2020, 09:34:47 AM
I don't mind blasts used very sparingly. They can be nice for impact but cannot stand them for long. Bands who use them relentlessly are unlistenable to me.
That's where I'm coming from too on them.
Yeah, brootul death metal springs to mind.
As for the fretless bass stuff, totally in agreement there. I appreciate the ability, I just find it annoying. Jazz awaits, chaps.
Jazz can get fucked, pretentious wank!
I've listened to it under every influence going and it still makes zero sense to me. :abbath:
Kyuss were far superior to the first couple of Queens of the Stone Age albums.
Songs for the deaf is up there as an excellent rock album.
Here's one. St Anger is better than Reload.
I don't think anyone really gives a shit about either of those albums, so an opinion comparing them is kind of excluded from being controversial. It's not even interesting!
I'd put the first QOTSA album up with any Kyuss album TBH, brilliant stuff. The split they did was great, too.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 23, 2020, 10:52:57 AM
I don't think anyone really gives a shit about either of those albums, so an opinion comparing them is kind of excluded from being controversial. It's not even interesting!
Is right. I've never even heard Sgt Anger....
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 23, 2020, 10:20:45 AM
Jazz can get fucked, pretentious wank!
I've listened to it under every influence going and it still makes zero sense to me. :abbath:
It's pretentious because you don't understand it? John Coltrane's "Giant Steps" pissed from a great height on most other music.
Fretless bass sounds great too, ye philistines.
It's amazing to hear an unusual melodic voice, especially when the instrument is usually relegated to the background.
Quote from: Ducky on April 23, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 23, 2020, 10:20:45 AM
Jazz can get fucked, pretentious wank!
I've listened to it under every influence going and it still makes zero sense to me. :abbath:
It's pretentious because you don't understand it? John Coltrane's "Giant Steps" pissed from a great height on most other music.
I dunno man. It just doesn't resonate with my chakras man..... :abbath:
Jazz is without a doubt, overall, the most pretentious of all genres with the possible exception of classical avant-garde. And I like jazz, I even started the Newpark music school...but left it because Guilfoyle was so insufferably pretentious!
I find jazz to be the most self-indulgent type of music. I can appreciate the skill involved and all that but I find it either totally OTT or bland elevator/restaurant music.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 23, 2020, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: ldj on April 23, 2020, 01:43:24 AM
More of a controversial 'rock' opinion but early Queens of the Stone Age were better than Kyuss.
If you mean commercially, yes.
Nope, I just find them more musically interesting tbh, especially on Rated R/SFTD.
They had more variety, the riffs were a lot weirder and having 3 vocalists gave them a great dynamic too.
I can easily settle this one. They are both shite.
Fair :laugh:.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 23, 2020, 01:58:18 PM
I can easily settle this one. They are both shite.
Yes, but the big question is, which one is more shit than the other? :laugh:
QotSA are unlistenable, poppy shite.
All desert rock is shite. If you were around when that scene was starting and going to those desert gigs and doing a lot of acid and heroin, I could maybe understand getting off on the music. But as a genre in its own right, it has no merit.
It would be so easy to make an algorithm that generates posts indistinguishable from yours :laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 23, 2020, 01:58:18 PM
I can easily settle this one. They are both shite.
Ah now. Ah now. Far from shite.
Seen as it's a controversial opinions thread I'll go one step further, between 1998 - 2004, Queens of the Stone Age were the best band on the planet making any form of rock or heavy music :laugh:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOsmG-sufNc
Quote from: Ducky on April 23, 2020, 11:24:12 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 23, 2020, 10:20:45 AM
Jazz can get fucked, pretentious wank!
I've listened to it under every influence going and it still makes zero sense to me. :abbath:
It's pretentious because you don't understand it? John Coltrane's "Giant Steps" pissed from a great height on most other music.
I have one CD here of John Coltrane and Miles Davis and it satisfies all of my extremely limited Jazz needs. It's good and all but gives me no desire to go any farther.
QOTSA are only ok to me. I liked it a bit at the time but it didn't take me long to get bored with it.
ReLoad is far better than St. Anger. ReLoad has a lot of bad tunes but the couple of decent ones it does have elevate it miles above St. Anger's no good tunes and unlistenable mix.
Reload felt like the leftover stuff from the over bloated load recording session.
At least St Anger was a band in crisis putting a out a response to that crisis. It turned out to be cack but it wasn't a rehash. It's still terrible but it's better than reload.
Actually it's all shit. I'd like to hear the presidio songs.
I thought Reload was the left over stuff and that was the known story from the beginning? St Anger has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, not even not being a rehash gives it any merit at all. It is just awful. And I ran to the shop to buy it on release day. Fair fucking scalded with it.
Reload has some right stinkers on it as well though to be fair but now I'm looking at the tracklist, I don't mind Fuel, Devil's Dance, Better Than You, Slither, Carpe Diem Baby, Bad Seed, Where The Wild Things Are, Prince Charming, Attitude and Fixxxer off that album so I suppose I don't really think it's bad at all. I can't abide The Memory Remains, Unforgiven II or Low Man's Lyric, but that's only 3 out of 13 that I really can't stick so not bad for a latter era Metallica Album.
I suppose it's controversial to say I liked Hardwired.. and didn't see much wrong with it at all.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 23, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
I suppose it's controversial to say I liked Hardwired.. and didn't see much wrong with it at all.
I saw someone say recently that it could be cut down to a solid 8 song album. I think that's a good way of putting it. Pretty much all the second disc is filler apart from Spit Out the Bone.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 23, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
Jazz is without a doubt, overall, the most pretentious of all genres with the possible exception of classical avant-garde. And I like jazz, I even started the Newpark music school...but left it because Guilfoyle was so insufferably pretentious!
Haha. 5 of my mates from home went to Newpark Jazz college. None of them pretentious but all great players. Must say, despite my limited knowledge on the genre as a whole, I do love jazz.
People are pretentious regardless of what genre of music they're into. At least jazz players can play.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 23, 2020, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 23, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
I suppose it's controversial to say I liked Hardwired.. and didn't see much wrong with it at all.
I saw someone say recently that it could be cut down to a solid 8 song album. I think that's a good way of putting it. Pretty much all the second disc is filler apart from Spit Out the Bone.
I do agree with that element of things, there was no need whatsoever to stretch a double album out of it
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 23, 2020, 04:43:11 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 23, 2020, 04:33:09 PM
I suppose it's controversial to say I liked Hardwired.. and didn't see much wrong with it at all.
I saw someone say recently that it could be cut down to a solid 8 song album. I think that's a good way of putting it. Pretty much all the second disc is filler apart from Spit Out the Bone.
Think I feel like that about every Metallica record after Master of Puppets to be honest. I know Justice is solid and they were really going all out on the prog so I'll give that a pass, but even St. Anger would have been decent at forty minutes and with decent production (even the rehearsal DVD the realised as a bonus disc was better), songs like Some Kind of Monster are class when you here the four-minute edits. Too much of their later stuff is at AJ4A-length songs but without enough going on to keep hold of you. The real strength of the stuff on Load and Reload is in the songwriting, especially when they've added the symphony or made it acoustic, Bleeding Me is a real highlight for me and personally one of my favourite songs.
The 2 original tracks on S+M were decent now you mention it. I like pretty much all of Load as well. Bleeding Me and The Outlaw Half Torn are 2 examples of long songs that don't get boring.
In retrospect The Black Album started bloating out the song writing but they got away with it with deadly songs. Load has some cool songs on it but they tend to be way too long and just go round in circles. Same with modern day Maiden. 4 minute songs all dragged out for 8 minutes until you can't take anymore. The choruses used like a form of Chinese water torture...
Quote from: open face surgery on April 23, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 23, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
Jazz is without a doubt, overall, the most pretentious of all genres with the possible exception of classical avant-garde. And I like jazz, I even started the Newpark music school...but left it because Guilfoyle was so insufferably pretentious!
Haha. 5 of my mates from home went to Newpark Jazz college. None of them pretentious but all great players. Must say, despite my limited knowledge on the genre as a whole, I do love jazz.
Almost everyone in my year was sound, the teachers and heads less so.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 22, 2020, 08:36:24 PM
Gonna have to give Reinventing a listen tomorrow for the first time in maybe 15 years now.
Thanks for your uncontroversial opinions back there fellas! You've set us "mongos" off to have a rare old time of air guitaring!
There was much better stuff in there than I recalled, and I could remember much more of it than I was expecting. Gonna give it another whirl actually!
Really? I can't remember anything about it being decent. Has time somehow been kind to it?
Not exactly controversial but the only Megadeth albums worth listening to after Rust In Peace are Youthanasia and The System Has Failed.
Don't rate Countdown to Extinction at all. Sweating Bullets is a very very annoying song!
Apart from a couple of duds I think Countdown is a great album. Songs like the title track, Architecture of Aggression and Foreclosure of a Dream are incredible I think.
As an aside, I just had a look at their MA page and, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the dude at the back of their new band pic one of the MacPoyles??
I'd say you were being generous with 3 albums, I wouldn't listen a full album after RIP. I went to the trouble of listening through their post-RIP discography a few years back and made a compilation from the songs I'd rate from each. I think the most I got from any individual album was 4 or 5, and that was only a couple of albums.
Up to and including Youthanasia is pure gold lads. Everything after that went from patchy at best to outright woeful.
Was actually blasting Countdown earlier and there are some absolute bangers on there. Architecture Of Aggresion, Ashes In Your Mouth, Countdown To Extinction and, yes even, Symphony Of Destruction... All top drawer stuff.
Bar Peace Sells and RiP, there's only one good Megadeth album - Youthanasia.
Even So Far and Killing are mostly filler.
I've always thought the cover tunes and production always let down the first 3 albums even if I like all of the originals on them.
It's why I always rated Metallica more in the Metallica vs Megadeth album, Metallica were very nearly flawless up until the Loads.
First album's shit. Peace Sells through RIP are all gold, though each has one absolute dud (the covers and Dawn Patrol).
The first album is a mess. Beyond that, everything up to and including Countdown is excellent. But yes, the covers are horrendous and I also have to say I hate Lucretia. When they were on form though, they were a force of nature.
The later albums have their moments too. Particularly The System Has Failed.
Jake E. Lee is better than Randy Rhoads.
Quote from: Ducky on April 23, 2020, 11:50:18 PM
Bar Peace Sells and RiP, there's only one good Megadeth album - Youthanasia.
Even So Far and Killing are mostly filler.
I've always rated Countdown over Youthanasia.
Youthanasia is a crock of shit, lads, come on. Also, the production on Peace Sells is perfect. It's meaty and thick with fucking heaps of character.
Quote from: Juggz on April 24, 2020, 08:05:17 AM
Youthanasia is a crock of shit, lads, come on. Also, the production on Peace Sells is perfect. It's meaty and thick with fucking heaps of character.
:laugh: You took your time to get here with that :laugh:
Youthanasia was magadeth's first bad album and everything after was substandard.
After bloodmountan mastadon became boring to me.
Quote from: Wiseblood on April 24, 2020, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Juggz on April 24, 2020, 08:05:17 AM
Youthanasia is a crock of shit, lads, come on. Also, the production on Peace Sells is perfect. It's meaty and thick with fucking heaps of character.
:laugh: You took your time to get here with that :laugh:
:laugh:
It has always been here, I'm just sick of repeating it.
Quote from: Rossy on April 24, 2020, 09:11:47 AM
After bloodmountan mastadon became boring to me.
Opinion changes to fact with the inclusive of "to me". Anyway, I love it all but Blood Mountain is still my least played.
Can't stand Youthanasia or So Far..., Megadeth seem incapable of putting two great records out consecutively. There's decent stuff peppered through all of their later albums, they've been making pretty much the same record since System Has Failed though.
Rust in Piece and Youthanasia are the only 2 albums not littered with filler. Their last album also wasn't too bad.
The most noteworthy thing about Megadeth post-RiP is that Mustaine hired one of the greatest drummers that has ever lived - Vinnie Coliauta - to record drums on The System has Failed, only to have him sound like Menza.
Megadeth are boring anyway, that's about the height of that.
Re. Mastodon - I used to think Leviathan was their best album but nowadays have drifted way more towards Crack the Skye, having hated it when it first came out it has seriously grown on me.
Crack The Skye's my favourite alright, though I didn't like it at first either. For the first four albums, I was always one behind in coming to like them, i.e. I only got into Remission when Leviathan came out, only got into that when Blood Mountain came out, etc. The Hunter was the first one I liked on release, despite the drastic change in style.
Crack the Skye is a masterpiece. I've never minded the style change over the years because they still make good tunes, their new stuff isn't far removed from Lizzy tbh.
I think on Blood Mountain they just experimented maybe a bit too much.
Aye Crack the Skye is their masterpiece.
The last one is the only one that hasn't really grabbed me TBH, that and the pre-Remission stuff.
I like Leviathan and a bit of Blood Mountain but I find all the rest of it boring. They are always threatening to do good things in the tunes but never really get there. I don't find the hidden depths in the tunes to keep me coming back for more. Ah well.
I remember on the old forum there was a thread about Megadeth's Tornado of Souls, and I listened to it and couldn't see what the big deal was. That was rather an unpopular opinion at the time, but maybe one has to be a guitarist to understand the big deal with it or something like that
Pretty much agree with Carnage. I think Once More 'Round the Sun is their best since Leviathan. For me it kinda has the "Load/Reload Effect" - they didn't care about their previous sound or "going soft" and sound like they made the music they wanted to make at the time, and it's all the better for it (actually spinning it now with sitting in the back garden with a cold beer - brilliant).
As for Megadeth being boring, I dunno how anyone can't listen to Chris Poland or Marty Friedman and not have their jaws on the floor (and I say that as someone that can barely string a few chords together).
Blood Mountain I never really got into, The Hunter took a while to click to, being so very different to Crack the Skye, but apart from that I've loved every Mastodon release upon first listening. Leviathan is still top of the pile for me though; just absolutely everything about it, music, lyrics, art, concept, production, I get absolutely sucked in from the first notes every time.
I had Crack the Skye on alternating rotation with AoP - White Tomb for weeks when they came out. Can't remember the last time I listened to the latter. I can't pick a firm favourite at this stage cause I just go down a rabbit hole when I start listening to them.
I'd prob take Emperor of Sand over Once More 'Round the Sun. On a side note, the riff behind the solo on Ember City is one of the greatest things ever. So simple but it genuinely evokes some strange emotion every time I hear it.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on April 22, 2020, 10:52:56 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on April 22, 2020, 10:27:44 PM
Pantera were fucking class. Nu metal my hole.
Who da fook mentioned Pantera and Nu Metal in the same sentence? :abbath:
You just did ye cint
Some popular bands I don't like:
Scorpions
Solstice
Type O Negative
Guns 'N Roses
The Cure
Motley Crue
Anything played entirely on a keyboard (dungeon synth and such)
Most American thrash
All but a few doom band
The entire genre of sludge metal. Especially Crowbar.
That should do for now.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 24, 2020, 01:29:50 AM
Jake E. Lee is better than Randy Rhoads.
Would 100% agree. Also The Ultimate Sin is the best Ozzy album.
Crowbar are excellent.
The last mastodon is shit and blood mountain is shit.
Leviathan is the best followed by crack the skye.
Right, here's something I don't know how controvertial it is, but it's only my perception of it.
Virtually all classic thrash metal bands reached a point where their riffs, tones and overall composition would be easily interchangeable if wasn't for their iconic singers. They sound like the exact same band if you could change the vocalist, and even the vocal placement is incredibly similar.
Those bands were instantly recognizable in their early albums, but you get Exodus, Kreator, Destruction, etc etc and they all have the same predicatable chord progression patterns. I'll give the devil's his due that tones were influenced by newer technology but the composition itself is far more stale than in any other metal subgenre. And by that I mean the classics in other genres and not newer bands...
Few exception here and there but it seems to me it's the stem of heavy metal who suffered the most with overclassification of metal subgenres.
What's "classic" thrash though? I hear those words and I think Reign in Blood, Master of Puppets, Rust in Peace, etc. Take the vocals off those records and they're all easily distinguishable.
B-tier thrash, absolutely, but defo not the classics.
Carpathian Forest have no business being anywhere near as big as they are.
Agreed re Carpathian Forest. One cool EP and then years of boring shite.
Quote from: Ducky on April 25, 2020, 02:17:28 PM
What's "classic" thrash though? I hear those words and I think Reign in Blood, Master of Puppets, Rust in Peace, etc. Take the vocals off those records and they're all easily distinguishable.
B-tier thrash, absolutely, but defo not the classics.
Classic as the old albuns/bands that still hold value today. Yes, Reign in Blood, Master of Puppets, Rust in Peace (despite the fact I dont like the lattest, it is still a thrash metal hallmark)... the 80's bay area thrash, the German scene, plus the scatered classics like Sepultura for instance.
My point is that these bands had very distinguishable works but they eventually converged into a very limited idea of thrash metal in their most recent releases. So I am totally with you about the older albuns, it's the new ones I was referring to.
With regards to Megadeth, the best two albums are the debut and Youthanasia. Rust In Peace is seriously overrated, the middle of the record has no hooks or interesting riffs. Half a great album.
Also Endgame is possibly their worst record. Could not believe the critical adulation for that album, it was utterly boring.
Quote from: O Drighes on April 25, 2020, 01:21:31 PM
Right, here's something I don't know how controvertial it is, but it's only my perception of it.
Virtually all classic thrash metal bands reached a point where their riffs, tones and overall composition would be easily interchangeable if wasn't for their iconic singers. They sound like the exact same band if you could change the vocalist, and even the vocal placement is incredibly similar.
Those bands were instantly recognizable in their early albums, but you get Exodus, Kreator, Destruction, etc etc and they all have the same predicatable chord progression patterns. I'll give the devil's his due that tones were influenced by newer technology but the composition itself is far more stale than in any other metal subgenre. And by that I mean the classics in other genres and not newer bands...
Few exception here and there but it seems to me it's the stem of heavy metal who suffered the most with overclassification of metal subgenres.
While I don't entirely agree with you, in fact if anything, the classic thrash bands all had their own identities and sounds. Testament were very different from Exodus. Forbidden were very different from Vio-Lence. Nuclear Assault were very different from Sacred Reich. At least to my ears anyway. But somewhere along the line, bands stopped developing. The last real changes in thrash were in the early 90s with the "melodic" post Black Album gold rush and the mid 90s tuning down and introducing some bro dude grooves. Both were largely commercial and creative failures for everyone involved so since then everyone has been playing it safe. Find your niche and stick to it. I think that's why the vast majority of modern thrash bands don't even try to be remotely original. Right now as far as I can see there's two types of modern thrash bands. Bands that completely stick to the 80s blueprint or bands that stick completely to the 80s blueprint and add black or death metal vocals. Maybe it's a genre that just wasn't meant to develop?
The Industrial style Blut Aus Nord albums are much better than the organic BM style ones.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on April 25, 2020, 08:23:26 PM
With regards to Megadeth, the best two albums are the debut and Youthanasia. Rust In Peace is seriously overrated, the middle of the record has no hooks or interesting riffs. Half a great album.
Also Endgame is possibly their worst record. Could not believe the critical adulation for that album, it was utterly boring.
Taking the middle of RiP to be Five Magics, Poison was the Cure and Lucretia, that is for sure a controversial opinion.
There's more interesting riffs and licks in Five Magics than some bands manage in a whole record. Poison is a cool throwback to the sound of their first record, and Lucretia has some of their most tasteful, mid tempo playing.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 26, 2020, 06:50:15 PM
The Industrial style Blut Aus Nord albums are much better than the organic BM style ones.
All over this, love those later records, same with Ulver.
I'm with you on Ulver there as well. I don't enjoy their old BM stuff at all. Actually anything before William Blake doesn't do anything for me.
Also Ducky, you got me curious enough to listen to Five Magics there and I have to admit it was actually good. This is from a lad who has never had the slightest interest in Megadeth and I'm not saying it will change me but that tune was ripping.
While we are on about Megadeth as well, the Children of the Grave rip off on Supercollider is absolutely shameless, I dunno how he tried to pass that one off
The old Ulver stuff is deadly. The demo in particular. Unique stuff.
I don't think I've heard any Ulver I didn't like, regardless of what genre they were at at the time.
On the subject of Ulver, I think the vocalists best work is the stuff he's done outside Ulver.
Wouldn't be fussed about Ulver's later stuff, first few are deadly.
Well to be honest I couldn't really get into The Assasination at all either despite it sounding like the sort of thing I would really like. I didn't get any buzz off Bergtatt or Nattens Madrigal either despite being into that type of thing at the time. Honestly haven't tried them in a decade though. Maybe I missed something.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 27, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
Well to be honest I couldn't really get into The Assasination at all either despite it sounding like the sort of thing I would really like. I didn't get any buzz off Bergtatt or Nattens Madrigal either despite being into that type of thing at the time. Honestly haven't tried them in a decade though. Maybe I missed something.
Check out the stuff he's done with borknagar and solefald.
Are any of you into Konkhra from Denmark?,they got a lot of coverage in the likes of Terrorizer back in the 90s,but i cant remember a whole lot of heads into them?.James Murphy and Chris Kontos had stints in the band,one of those bands that came across as being popular in the media but no one actually listened to them?
The association I have with them is Chris Kontos. His drumming on Burn My Eyes was phenomenal. I think his style of drumming was massively influential on the 90s stuff that came out after BME. I have a vague memory of hearing Konkhra back then and not thinking much of them. For some reason they also put me in mind of another band who seemed to be getting pushed by Metal Hammer (but who definitely sucked), Grip Inc. Did they sound similar or is it just a crossed wire in my brain?
Was Grip Inc Lombardo and Geezer Butler? Had it on tape. Was terrible as I recall.
Oh maybe. Lombardo being involved rings a bell at least. I remember the singer with the shit slicked back Mohawk :laugh: his vocals were shite as I recall. Kind of constipated sounding like he was afraid to really let rip.
Ya grip Inc was dave lombardo.
I actually liked their stuff!
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 28, 2020, 11:13:04 AM
Oh maybe. Lombardo betting involved rings a bell at least. I remember the singer with the shit slicked back Mohawk :laugh: his vocals were shite as I recall. Kind of constipated sounding like he was afraid to really let rip.
Terrible band. I believe that singer killed himself several years ago. Could be wrong on that.
Regarding Konkhra, I have that album with Murphy and Kontos. It has a few decent songs but far too much filler to make it worth your time. Never explored anything else Konkhra did.
I listened to a Grip Inc. song on YouTube just now. The vocals are actually not as awful sounding to my ear these days. Kind of an Amebix buzz off them. The music is uninspiring, though. Basic mid-90s too cleanly produced remedial nu metal riffs with quasi tribal drumming. Very dated and very bland.
I'm sure I have albums gathering dust somewhere from both Grip Inc and Konkhra. Two completely non-descript bands. Neither really similar, remember Konkhra as being groovy death metal-lite, however the unifying factor being that both traded off the reputations of drummers who were far too talented to be associated with either.
They were probably out around the same time which is the association in my mind.
I can remember both getting a regular airing on the 2FM metal show. Fairly sure that Grip Inc album spent aeons on the Soundcellar Top 10, along with In The Nightside Eclipse
Twas G/Z/R I was half confused with. Another "super group". Geezer and Burton C Bell. Incidentally, also shite.
Yeah i had a Grip inc album back then alright,bought it purely because of the Lombardo connection,thought it was ok at the time.
Geezer Butler (mentioned above) was in another one of those mid 90s side project shit house bands,with Burton C Bell out of Fear factory,G/Z/R,any of you remember that name?.
Mid 90s scutter at its best!
Ha you just go in ahead of me!
I actually liked Grip Inc. The other notable thing about them was they had Waldemar Sorychta on guitar. He produced a lot of stuff in the 90s and did some session work. If you listen really closely to the later Grip Inc. stuff you can hear the similarities with the lead work and production of stuff like Wildhoney.
Surely someone else here must have bought the Offspring - Smash purely on the basis it was on constant rotation on the Metal Show for years? Anyone? And yes, it was shite.
Quote from: John Kimble on April 28, 2020, 12:55:37 PM
Surely someone else here must have bought the Offspring - Smash purely on the basis it was on constant rotation on the Metal Show for years? Anyone? And yes, it was shite.
Coupla great tracks on that album. But by and large a fairly shite band.
Some albums were more or less played in full because they were in the top 10 for so long,happy days! have the cassett player ready to record!
Quote from: John Kimble on April 28, 2020, 12:55:37 PM
Surely someone else here must have bought the Offspring - Smash purely on the basis it was on constant rotation on the Metal Show for years? Anyone? And yes, it was shite.
That was the first album I ever bought when I was about 8 or 9! Have to say though I still love a lot of that mid 90s stuff like Offspring, Nofx, Bad Religion, Vandals...
G/Z/R were scutter. I loved Demanufacture so I was interested in hearing it but I remember it being fairly shite. I wonder how bad it must really have been to hit the low bar of my thirteen year old shit detector :laugh:
Smash is a great album.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on April 28, 2020, 01:51:54 PM
Smash is a great album.
Dead right it is. Gave it a spin a few weeks back.
I still have that G//Z/R album somewhere, it was poor alright. Can't stand any of that pop punk shite either, can't understand how it got so popular. Not quite the same thing but I liked the first Transplants album at the time.
I think the way it is with a lot of albums from our teenage years is that if we liked it a lot then we end up with a soft spot for it now, but if it was to come out tomorrow we wouldn't bother our holes with it. It's hard to be fully subjective with a lot of it. For me anyway. I never really buzzed hard off Smash so it's unlikely I'd waste my time trying now but at the same time I'd throw on the first Korn album every couple of years and enjoy a lot of it.
And by the way the G/Z/R album was really fucking bad.
Smash, Ignition and Ixnay on the Hombre are all great, catchy records.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 28, 2020, 03:28:13 PM
I think the way it is with a lot of albums from our teenage years is that if we liked it a lot then we end up with a soft spot for it now, but if it was to come out tomorrow we wouldn't bother our holes with it. It's hard to be fully subjective with a lot of it. For me anyway. I never really buzzed hard off Smash so it's unlikely I'd waste my time trying now but at the same time I'd throw on the first Korn album every couple of years and enjoy a lot of it.
And by the way the G/Z/R album was really fucking bad.
When you're listening to them you're also getting a nostalgic buzz of what they meant to you back then. You get the little emotional kick too along with the music itself. They're part of the story of your life. This is why people frequently don't "
get" some of the shite we used to listen to when presented with it in contemporary times, they're just hearing the music and not the warm glow of a youthful nostalgie trip.
The Offspring's 90s work is peerless. The records they put out in that decade are some of my favourite punk albums full stop. Great songwriting and a real edge to the material, they really managed to get a feel for the underbelly of California. It's kind of wrong to group them with Green Day and other bands,they always had far more of an edge.
Their songwriting totally went downhill after Americana, though, and their work since then has been really mundane.
The only song I know of theirs is Pretty Fly for a White Guy so I always thought they were a parody/comedy band tbh.
I've never been a fan of pop punk though.
The first Offspring album is pretty formative, but it's got a hard edge and it's pretty political in places. Ignition is amazing, some really dark songs on it. Smash still has a hard edge, it's hooky as fuck but there's plenty of dirty riffs on it. All three were produced by Thom Wilson too (Dead Kennedy's, TSOL, Christian Death).
Inxnay on the Hombre was produced by Dave Jerden, sounds much more polished - but not more than any of his other big records. Songwriting is still there but the pop is definitely creeping in by now. Bizarrely, Jello Biafra shows up on this record to do a piss-take interlude.
Are they even together these days? I know Dexter Holland went back and finished his PhD in molecular biology a few years ago. For a lad that has enough money to last several lifetimes, fair dues to him going back, think he was working in research towards a cure for HIV.
Jesu > Godflesh
Quote from: Ducky on April 29, 2020, 01:42:33 AM
The first Offspring album is pretty formative, but it's got a hard edge and it's pretty political in places. Ignition is amazing, some really dark songs on it. Smash still has a hard edge, it's hooky as fuck but there's plenty of dirty riffs on it. All three were produced by Thom Wilson too (Dead Kennedy's, TSOL, Christian Death).
Inxnay on the Hombre was produced by Dave Jerden, sounds much more polished - but not more than any of his other big records. Songwriting is still there but the pop is definitely creeping in by now. Bizarrely, Jello Biafra shows up on this record to do a piss-take interlude.
Are they even together these days? I know Dexter Holland went back and finished his PhD in molecular biology a few years ago. For a lad that has enough money to last several lifetimes, fair dues to him going back, think he was working in research towards a cure for HIV.
Dexter and Noodles (?) recently did a cover of a Joe Exotic, from Tiger King fame, song/vid.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 29, 2020, 03:14:07 AM
Jesu > Godflesh
Not a chance. That said I fuckin love Jesu too, were always one of my favourites since Heartache came out. Just got the s/t on vinyl in the post today and all. But Godflesh is easily the best Broadrick band.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 29, 2020, 03:14:07 AM
Jesu > Godflesh
It's been years since they released anything that would give that credence. Heart Ache is untouchable, and the s/t album, Silver, Sun Down/Sun Rise and their half of the split with Eluvium are up there, but then you have stuff like Conqueror and Lifeline which are pretty mediocre, and the Sun Kil Moon collaborations which are absolute dogshit.
Pretty much everything Godflesh have put out is great, though I thought the first couple of comeback releases were below their previous standard. Post Self is savage, though.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 29, 2020, 03:14:07 AM
Jesu > Godflesh
Ah no, not even close for me. Jesu's output is much more patchy than Godflesh's catalogue. Jesu actually have a few stinkers in there, although I do like and listen to the majority of it. I won't hear a bad word about the first Jesu album, or the Silver EP but after that it starts to get a little less good. I can understand at the same time why some people would feel as you do, though, Godflesh isn't the easiest to get into and the vocal style can be a bit off putting for some, but for me Godflesh are untouchable at what they do. On the face of it it seems very simplistic but JK is a brilliant guitarist, Benny Green is great at what he does with the bass and Machines is a brutally effective drummer. The way the rhythm underpins everything and Broadrick pretty much wrings the fucking neck out of his guitar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76vGiZS6zFY check this if you have time I love this performance from him) all comes together quite beautifully.
I find with most people they are either in the camp of "fuck this is brilliant" or "I don't see the big deal with these lads at all". Jesu probably has a more broad appeal due to the softer nature of the sound although there are of course many similarities between the two.
Devin Townsend. Pompous. Annoying cunt. That is all.
Is there anything happening under the Pale Sketcher banner these days? I know he separated the more electronic stuff from Jesu a few years back, but it seemed to peter out.
I didn't hear anything of the Pale Sketcher either now you mention it. There was just the one album I know of and he seemed to move on to JK Flesh after that. Some of his live sets are great there's loads of em on Youtube
Quote from: ldj on April 28, 2020, 09:11:29 PM
The only song I know of theirs is Pretty Fly for a White Guy so I always thought they were a parody/comedy band tbh.
I've never been a fan of pop punk though.
Pretty Fly for a White Guy is The Offspring's "Enter Sandman".
Their first couple of albums are definitely not pop punk!
Quote from: Giggles on April 29, 2020, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: ldj on April 28, 2020, 09:11:29 PM
The only song I know of theirs is Pretty Fly for a White Guy so I always thought they were a parody/comedy band tbh.
I've never been a fan of pop punk though.
Pretty Fly for a White Guy is The Offspring's "Enter Sandman".
Their first couple of albums are definitely not pop punk!
They are very far removed from the likes of someone like The Exploited too though. And I'm a huge Offspring fan for what it's worth.
Quote from: Ducky on April 29, 2020, 01:42:33 AM
Are they even together these days? I know Dexter Holland went back and finished his PhD in molecular biology a few years ago. For a lad that has enough money to last several lifetimes, fair dues to him going back, think he was working in research towards a cure for HIV.
They're working on a new album. Be hard to follow up on this absolute banger from the last release :laugh: https://youtu.be/0eJZo1Hs8yk
Quote from: astfgyl on April 29, 2020, 07:28:41 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 29, 2020, 03:14:07 AM
Jesu > Godflesh
Ah no, not even close for me. Jesu's output is much more patchy than Godflesh's catalogue. Jesu actually have a few stinkers in there, although I do like and listen to the majority of it. I won't hear a bad word about the first Jesu album, or the Silver EP but after that it starts to get a little less good. I can understand at the same time why some people would feel as you do, though, Godflesh isn't the easiest to get into and the vocal style can be a bit off putting for some, but for me Godflesh are untouchable at what they do. On the face of it it seems very simplistic but JK is a brilliant guitarist, Benny Green is great at what he does with the bass and Machines is a brutally effective drummer. The way the rhythm underpins everything and Broadrick pretty much wrings the fucking neck out of his guitar (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76vGiZS6zFY check this if you have time I love this performance from him) all comes together quite beautifully.
I find with most people they are either in the camp of "fuck this is brilliant" or "I don't see the big deal with these lads at all". Jesu probably has a more broad appeal due to the softer nature of the sound although there are of course many similarities between the two.
Godflesh are pummelling live, they are so, so heavy. Some of their later stuff and their love of putting out an endless amount of remixes isn't great but their top stuff is incredible.
I don't get Sunn O))) and bands of that ilk.
Everyone says you have to see them live but tbh standing around for an hour and a half listening to one chord ring out sounds boring as fuck.
I've seen them twice and the first time the experience was like none I'd had before. The physicality of the sound hammering through my skull was painful. It was an endurance test and definitely a unique buzz in that respect. The second time was with Atilla Csihar doing vocals. There were six guitarists on stage but somehow the volume wasn't anywhere near the levels of the first gig, but Atilla's otherworldly vocals were mind blowing. The noises he can make are inhuman.
So yeah, there is no denying the gimmickry of Sunn o))) but they are actually worth experiencing live for something quite different to the norm.
Quote from: Giggles on April 29, 2020, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: Ducky on April 29, 2020, 01:42:33 AM
Are they even together these days? I know Dexter Holland went back and finished his PhD in molecular biology a few years ago. For a lad that has enough money to last several lifetimes, fair dues to him going back, think he was working in research towards a cure for HIV.
They're working on a new album. Be hard to follow up on this absolute banger from the last release :laugh: https://youtu.be/0eJZo1Hs8yk
That surely has to be a piss take?????
Destroy Erase Improve is Meshuggah's best album.
I was really looking forward to Nothing and it turned out to be a let down and since then it's been a wash/ rinse/ repeat of the same gimmick.
I saw them live around the time Nothing came out and I just didn't get it there either.
I love Nothing, it's my favourite of theirs (the re-recorded/remastered/whatever version, I've only heard the original once). Obzen is a more mellow version of their sound IMO, my favourite of the subsequent releases, but yeah, it's generally been variations on a theme since.
I thought DEI being Meshuggah's best album was the general consensus? I know it's my fave by a longshot.
It's Catch 33 by an absolute mile.
I think Catch 33 is a better experience, but it's not as enjoyable musically.
Nope, all wrong. It's Chaosphere.
Ooooffff, I dislike Chaosphere to the point where I'd say I actually hate it. Bay far their worst album for me.
I'm in the Catch 33 camp as well. then Nothing, then I.
I bought the 8 string version of Nothing lately and I prefer the downtuned 7 string version. The difference isn't massive on the face of it, but there is an extra bit of filth from the downtuned 7 vs the 8 albeit with a small loss in clarity but I just prefer the extra dirt on the original.
I find Chaosphere is a very tough listen and I wouldn't really be bothered with it though I found it intriguing when it first came out
DEI has a certain charm as well and stands out as very different to a lot of the rest. I'm going to lash it on now altogether be grand for a bit of painting.
Quote from: Bogmetaller on April 30, 2020, 02:04:19 PM
Quote from: Giggles on April 29, 2020, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: Ducky on April 29, 2020, 01:42:33 AM
Are they even together these days? I know Dexter Holland went back and finished his PhD in molecular biology a few years ago. For a lad that has enough money to last several lifetimes, fair dues to him going back, think he was working in research towards a cure for HIV.
They're working on a new album. Be hard to follow up on this absolute banger from the last release :laugh: https://youtu.be/0eJZo1Hs8yk
That surely has to be a piss take?????
It surely is a piss take and it surely is an absolute banger :laugh:
I don't think Meshuggah have a bad album. They're some craic to have on when one is doing a spot of housekeeping :abbath:
I listened to Destroy Erase Improve and Catch 33 last night and they were both brilliant. I don't necessarily think any of their albums are bad but they got a bit samey for me as time went on. Still that takes nothing from the first few. I thought Koloss was great at first but it fell away pretty quickly for me and now I can't remember a note of it.
Is it controversial to say I love listening to metal but I can't stand looking at it for the most part? I got a copy of Meshuggah Nothing and it had a free DVD and I couldn't enjoy it looking at the head on yer man making the hard man faces. There is a lot of posturing involved with all types of metal, but I suppose as it is essentially role play that is inevitable as they have to get into character to give the performance. A lot of it reminds me of WWE though.
Chaosphere was my introduction and prob still my favourite but, on a whole, despite liking them, I couldn't care less about them at this point. I always thought he looked deadly live. Mad head on him.
Possibly the most uninteresting vocalist in metal all the same. Did they purposely decide to have the vocals be the one-dimensional anchor to tether the musical madness?
I think so, it's yet another rhythmic instrument in the mix.
I have no recollection of anything rhythmically interesting happening at the level of the vocals, but I'm not a good judge; I never got anything more than the novelty value of Meshuggah's wow factor, always got bored of them by day two or three of trying.
I saw them supporting Machine Head in 95 and thought they were really heavy and cool but even then, at 13, I found them sterile and boring on CD. I'm happy to watch a couple of songs live on YouTube from time to time, and marvel at their playing but, man, they are a boring band.
Dool are just Him for people who like black metal
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 02, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
I have no recollection of anything rhythmically interesting happening at the level of the vocals, but I'm not a good judge; I never got anything more than the novelty value of Meshuggah's wow factor, always got bored of them by day two or three of trying.
I think it's just the staccato of the vox over the music, but yeah it all got very samey to be honest. They sound massive live but are boring to watch. I'd probably listen to the Special Defects album more than Meshuggahs latter stuff these days.
Morgen Agren is a superb drummer
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 02, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
I have no recollection of anything rhythmically interesting happening at the level of the vocals, but I'm not a good judge; I never got anything more than the novelty value of Meshuggah's wow factor, always got bored of them by day two or three of trying.
Have you tried "I" at all? I reckon if there is nothing you like in those 20 minutes it just isn't for you
Edit: I meant to say I think the vocals are not great as well but sometimes the music is so good that it doesn't matter
I went to see a headline show of theirs in Paris, living with a guy who was obsessed with them at the time, and I really enjoyed and sank right into the whole extreme bio-tech future culture vibe (cannabis assisted, of course). But then over the next few days back in the flat, still wasn't getting any staying power out of the recorded output.
Ah sure fuck it then, we all have things like that. It's a bit like meself with Megadeth and Judas Priest. No matter how much it's recommended or explained to me, it just doesn't stick.
Yeah if you perceive something a particular way then that's how it is.
Bar a few songs Motorhead are just a bad pub band playing shitty blues rock and their music is almost completely meritless to my ears and no one will ever change my mind on that.
Regarding Motorhead, while nearly every album is full of filler, Ace of Spades is without a doubt one of the greatest Rock n' Roll albums ever recorded.
If you put together the rest of their material you would have another few stellar full lenghts.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 03, 2020, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 02, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
I have no recollection of anything rhythmically interesting happening at the level of the vocals, but I'm not a good judge; I never got anything more than the novelty value of Meshuggah's wow factor, always got bored of them by day two or three of trying.
Have you tried "I" at all? I reckon if there is nothing you like in those 20 minutes it just isn't for you
Edit: I meant to say I think the vocals are not great as well but sometimes the music is so good that it doesn't matter
I bought "I" based on the review on MI, which I thought was impressive at the time. This lead to a purchase of "Catch 33" which was just more of the same but even longer with no variation to my mind. Not my thing at all
I'd heard Chaosphere and didn't really love it, but "I" got me into the idea and I still love it and as you say Catch 33 is just more of the same and even longer with less variation but it's my favourite of them all.
In a way it is like an Earth album or something as in waiting for things to happen yields very little result but just letting it happen can be a quite hypnotic experience. There is a sort of magic eye picture element to it as well, once you see it but you have to not focus on it for it to become apparent.
I seen them last time they were here and it was class but they're not a band I'd sit down and listen to. That song Combustion is deadly though, always thought they should do more melodic riffs like that.
Iron Maiden aren't a metal band. They're a hard rock band with some heavy metal imagery. It only takes two minutes of listening to them to hear this.
That's not controversial, just retarded.
I think the new version of Blackened is horsehit
Controversially, I actually quite enjoyed it.
Would have been better if it was just James on his own. I'd still be interested in hearing a Hetfield solo album. He should have made one years ago.
You're probably right.
There's a new version of Blackened?
Didn't think it was too bad, drums put me off a little, some more subtle playing would have worked much better
Quote from: Ducky on May 04, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
There's a new version of Blackened?
Yeah. Mama Said Blackened, or Blackened 2020, one or the other.
Quote from: Pagan Waltar on May 04, 2020, 01:15:40 PM
Regarding Motorhead, while nearly every album is full of filler, Ace of Spades is without a doubt one of the greatest Rock n' Roll albums ever recorded.
If you put together the rest of their material you would have another few stellar full lenghts.
Overkill is a classic.
Bomber is overrated but still a good album.
Of the newer stuff Bastards, Inferno and We are Motorhead are all excellent albums too
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 04, 2020, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Ducky on May 04, 2020, 03:46:27 PM
There's a new version of Blackened?
Yeah. Mama Said Blackened, or Blackened 2020, one or the other.
Cheers, just having a listen now... this is satire, right?
Quote from: Anton Arcane on April 25, 2020, 10:42:29 PM
Quote from: O Drighes on April 25, 2020, 01:21:31 PM
Right, here's something I don't know how controvertial it is, but it's only my perception of it.
Virtually all classic thrash metal bands reached a point where their riffs, tones and overall composition would be easily interchangeable if wasn't for their iconic singers. They sound like the exact same band if you could change the vocalist, and even the vocal placement is incredibly similar.
Those bands were instantly recognizable in their early albums, but you get Exodus, Kreator, Destruction, etc etc and they all have the same predicatable chord progression patterns. I'll give the devil's his due that tones were influenced by newer technology but the composition itself is far more stale than in any other metal subgenre. And by that I mean the classics in other genres and not newer bands...
Few exception here and there but it seems to me it's the stem of heavy metal who suffered the most with overclassification of metal subgenres.
While I don't entirely agree with you, in fact if anything, the classic thrash bands all had their own identities and sounds. Testament were very different from Exodus. Forbidden were very different from Vio-Lence. Nuclear Assault were very different from Sacred Reich. At least to my ears anyway. But somewhere along the line, bands stopped developing. The last real changes in thrash were in the early 90s with the "melodic" post Black Album gold rush and the mid 90s tuning down and introducing some bro dude grooves. Both were largely commercial and creative failures for everyone involved so since then everyone has been playing it safe. Find your niche and stick to it. I think that's why the vast majority of modern thrash bands don't even try to be remotely original. Right now as far as I can see there's two types of modern thrash bands. Bands that completely stick to the 80s blueprint or bands that stick completely to the 80s blueprint and add black or death metal vocals. Maybe it's a genre that just wasn't meant to develop?
Agree with the point on the 80s blueprint, even a friend of mine has about 8/9 trash songs he's waiting to record. It's good but sounds pulled straight out of the 80s.
Surpised at a lot of the Megadeth comments, i'm a big fan of of all their album nearly bar Risk and Super Collider but some food for though and some merit to some of what was said, but also fuck that, I love killing is my business especially.
:abbath:
Ozzy is a talentless dimwit that should have disappeared after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath :abbath:
I don't think that's a controversial opinion. The man (and his wife) are parasites.
Quote from: Scáthach on May 04, 2020, 11:23:03 PM
Ozzy is a talentless dimwit that should have disappeared after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath :abbath:
Ah man, Sabotage is a class album in its own right and those first 4 Ozzy solo albums were great....
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on May 05, 2020, 08:51:58 AM
Quote from: Scáthach on May 04, 2020, 11:23:03 PM
Ozzy is a talentless dimwit that should have disappeared after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath :abbath:
Ah man, Sabotage is a class album in its own right and those first 4 Ozzy solo albums were great....
And the new album is pretty pathetic nonsense, how it gets 4/5 in the music mags is hard to believe.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on May 05, 2020, 08:51:58 AM
Quote from: Scáthach on May 04, 2020, 11:23:03 PM
Ozzy is a talentless dimwit that should have disappeared after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath :abbath:
Ah man, Sabotage is a class album in its own right and those first 4 Ozzy solo albums were great....
Actually I have agree about Sabotage, you have me there. But what if Randy Rhoads had teamed up with a capable vocalist? It's a big metal 'what if?' in my head.
And Jake Lee, Bob Daisley, Lee Kerslake...
QuoteBut what if Randy Rhoads had teamed up with a capable vocalist? It's a big metal 'what if?' in my head.
He did, but Quiet Riot were still shit.
Ozzy's output was grand up to No More Tears. After that it just gets progressively worse. Had he stopped when he first planned, after that No More Tears stint (
and not stopped when the voices told him to strangle Sharon), it would be hard to find fault with his body of work.
Quote from: Juggz on May 05, 2020, 02:25:16 PMOzzy's output was grand up to No More Tears. After that it just gets progressively worse. Had he stopped when he first planned, after that No More Tears stint (and not stopped when the voices told him to strangle Sharon), it would be hard to find fault with his body of work.
This. The first 6 Sabbath albums and the title track of Never Say Die are fantastic, as is about half of the solo period mentioned, but after No More Tears, he's forgettable. The subsequent mumbling, stumbling mess that Sharon's been milking for all he's worth is tragic to behold.
I fucking love Never Say Die. There are a couple of duffers but the rest is flawed magnificence. Technical Ecstacy... She's Gone can get gone but the rest is deadly.
Is still liking/buying picture disks still out of fashion?
Danzig is one of the worst vocalists I've ever heard
Quote from: blessed1 on May 06, 2020, 12:03:18 PM
Danzig is one of the worst vocalists I've ever heard
Ya, but have you seen his new movie?
Doesn't matter because he wrote some of the greatest songs ever.
Quote from: hellfire on May 05, 2020, 08:15:16 PM
Is still liking/buying picture disks still out of fashion?
Must have passed me by. Listening to the last Flotsam and Jetsam on pic disc right now. Though why I bought such a godawful cover art as a picture disc I'll never know.
Picture discs have a reputation for poor quality sound but my ear isn't tuned finely enough to notice. I only have a handful of them but I tend to veer away from them because I like to be able to look at the artwork while listening to the music which can be a dizzying experience with a picture disc.
Quote from: Emphyrio on May 06, 2020, 01:03:57 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on May 06, 2020, 12:03:18 PM
Danzig is one of the worst vocalists I've ever heard
Ya, but have you seen his new movie?
I have. Its still better than his vocals.
Faith No More's version of War Pigs from Brixton Academy is a more enjoyable listen than the original song.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 09, 2020, 08:52:58 PM
Faith No More's version of War Pigs from Brixton Academy is a more enjoyable listen than the original song.
More enjoyable than their original studio version (I agree) or more enjoyable than the actual original (get your coat!).
Both.
I had a feeling I'd be on my own with this one, but hear me out. My missus never stops listening to the first 3 Sabbath albums and I get to hear the original War Pigs almost every day. I know it's a great song and I never mind it being on but I was so refreshed by FNM's livelier and more energetic Brixton Academy version the last couple of days that I came to the conclusion I find it more enjoyable. Wife unsurprisingly also disagrees and thinks the FNM one is shit compared to Sabbath version.
I'll get me coat..
The Black Album is actually a great album and although stylistically it's a big departure from And Justice For All, many of its riffs would sit comfortably on Ride The Lightning.
It can certainly be shaved of a couple of tracks and reordered into a really great album. As is, too much crowd pleasing filler
No problem with the Black album at all for me, always said 'first five', rather than 'first four'. Would be perfectly happy never to hear Sandman or Nothing Else Matters again though.
Quote from: Thorn on May 10, 2020, 10:24:33 PM
No problem with the Black album at all for me, always said 'first five', rather than 'first four'. Would be perfectly happy never to hear Sandman or Nothing Else Matters again though.
Sick to death of those two songs, but otherwise still think it's a great album. Would have loved to hear My Friend of Misery as the instrumental it was originally planned as though
I don't mind the hits but Don't Tread on Me, Through the Never, Struggle Within and Holier Than Thou are utterly disposable.
You could add Sad but True to that list. Utterly boring song.
The Unforgiven and The God that Failed are by far the best songs on that album, the former because it's their best ballad, the latter because it managed to have that accessible, polished sound that they were pursuing while maintaining the piss and vinegar attitude of their earlier albums.
Some great tracks on it,and i love the big sound off the album ,but i havent put it on in donkeys years.In fact i play very little Metallica these days,i think i burnt myself out because i listened to the early albums more or less every day for years as a young lad.
Through The Never has my favourite riffs from that album. Fun wee solo too.
Holier then thou is a great song. Get out if it!!
The riff after the solo in Struggle Within is possibly the best moment in the Black album
This has actually inspired me to listen to the album and I don't particularly like them at all at this stage.
Of Wolf and Man, Through the Never and Don't Tread on Me and Struggle Within are heading towards filler direction even though there's a riff or a solo here or there that stands out. I could also live without ever hearing Sandman again, not because it's a terrible song or anything but it is hands down the most overplayed metal song ever. I have lots of time for everything else on the album.
Sad But True through to Wherever I May Roam are crackers and similarly The God That Failed and My Friend Of Misery are great songs.
I've always viewed it as a classic rock album for the 90s and an interesting cultural snapshot of the vibes in the US at the time in a way (it's a supremely self-confident record). Great production job although I can't help but wonder if the sheer perfection of it dates it slightly.
Holier Than Thou is shite.
My Friend Of Misery should definitely have been the fifth instrumental, it all gets very average when the vocals come in, but the opening melody is excellent. I think they just couldn't bear Jason doing what Cliff had done (despite the indication that it would have turned out really well judging by the opening bit) and they added the vocals to downplay him.
The Year And A Half In The Life Of... videos of the album recording process and the 91/92 tours are both really good. The footage from Donington 1991 has the best live version of FWTBT ever.
Quote from: Circlepit on May 11, 2020, 09:49:39 AM
Holier then thou is a great song. Get out if it!!
Best song on the album for me 😂
Of wolf and man is brilliant too. !!! :abbath:
Shape shhhhiiiiffffffftttttt... nah, it's defo filler!
'Gallery of Suicide' is better than any of the Chris Barnes Cannibal Corpse albums.
'Progeny' is by far the best track on 'Nadir' by Abaddon Incarnate.
Cold Lake is fucking brilliant.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 12, 2020, 12:32:46 PM
'Gallery of Suicide' is better than any of the Chris Barnes Cannibal Corpse albums.
True of everything except The Bleeding.
The bleeding does have some classic tracks, and two or three of the essentials at a show. It's close alright, but GOS just pips it for me.
That choon 'stabbed in the throat. Phoar, ya cunchy.
The music on those Barnes albums is fantastic and his vocals on Eaten and half of The Bleeding are great, but on the other half, and Butchered and Tombs, he's unlistenable. It's one of the few instances where I'd be happy for them to rerecord the vocals with Fisher, and stick them over the existing tunes.
As an aside, I watched the documentary the other day, great watch.
Show no Mercy is the greatest Slayer album by a country mile. It's a good album but I cannot fathom all the fuss over Reign in Blood. I wouldn't even consider it the greatest thrash album from 1986.
Neither album is their best (that's South Of Heaven), but Show No Mercy is definitely closer to the top. I'd put RIB in fourth, with SNM and Seasons in joint second, Divine in fifth.
SOH has the heaviness, the variety, the perfect production, even the Priest cover is brilliant.
My top three are Show no Mercy, Seasons and South in that order. Darkness Descends still the 1986 release which to these ears has yet to be bettered.
Quote from: vinterland on May 13, 2020, 07:05:23 PM
Show no Mercy is the greatest Slayer album by a country mile. It's a good album but I cannot fathom all the fuss over Reign in Blood. I wouldn't even consider it the greatest thrash album from 1986.
The one gripe I'd have with RIB is the production - the sound is way too clean/thin. Then again at the other end of the scale I don't like the production on Darkness descends either 😂
The production on RIB is perfect. Despite the shit production, if you have SOH as well as RIB, you have all the Slayer you need.
Seasons is fucking weak. A handful of great songs padded out with shite. 3/5 at best.
Personally was always underwhelmed by Seasons, would put all of the earlier ones above it. As an external comparison, I prefer Chaos AD to it.
South of Heaven was one of the first metal albums i ever heard,so that always had an influence on it being my no1 Slayer album.I have to say i love Seasons too,i can remember being a bit underwhelmed by Divine intervention when it came out.
As for Cannibal Corpse,the first 4 are beasts,id absolutely hate to hear Corosegrinders vocals on any of them!.Of the albums after Barnes,Bloodthirst is probably the one id reach for.
I think Slayer up to mid seasons(I consider the latter half of the album very boring - even the title track) were in their prime album wise.
I'd be the opposite when it comes to cannibal. I love all CC albums until bloodthirst. After Gallery they started to sound very bland.
Gallery was the first corpse album I listened to at 13 years of age and I consider it my favourite despite overall preferring the Barnes albums.
Quote from: Carnage on May 13, 2020, 07:15:55 PM
Neither album is their best (that's South Of Heaven), but Show No Mercy is definitely closer to the top. I'd put RIB in fourth, with SNM and Seasons in joint second, Divine in fifth.
SOH has the heaviness, the variety, the perfect production, even the Priest cover is brilliant.
^ This.
I'm in the "first ones I heard are favourites" camp for Slayer, so that's RiB and Seasons.
RiB is particularly formative in my listening as I remember sitting in my bedroom one Saturday, just listened to it through while reading (one of the scent few I bought) an issue of Kerrang and they had a rave review of Napalm Death's "Enemy of the Music Business" and I said "I want to hear something wilder than RiB", I had a record voucher burning a hole in my pocket and the pokey little record shop it was for, to my complete surprise, had the ND album.
I think Divine Intervention is their third best, then SoH, then SNM, WPB, GHUA. Hell Awaits is almost unlistenable with one of the most weak sauce productions I've ever heard.
I do remember buying Diabolus In Musica off the back of really liking Bitter Peace and well, should've stuck to the free sampler CD it was on :laugh:
Actually, I think that's one of my ultimate peeves - being a skint teenager and only being able to buy an album once in a while, only to come home with a turkey.
To tie it into the thread, I'll never forget the utter disgust on my face when I splashed out on Killers, not knowing about Paul Dianno's tenure with the band and realising that they had a period where they sounded like a glorified pub band... oh well, at least the album sleeve was cool.
Quote from: Ducky on May 13, 2020, 11:33:05 PM
Actually, I think that's one of my ultimate peeves - being a skint teenager and only being able to buy an album once in a while, only to come home with a turkey.
To tie it into the thread, I'll never forget the utter disgust on my face when I splashed out on Killers, not knowing about Paul Dianno's tenure with the band and realising that they had a period where they sounded like a glorified pub band... oh well, at least the album sleeve was cool.
Reminds me when I went to buy Fear Factorys demanufacture on cd and mistakenly picked up remanufacture (total shit show remix album). Got home and copped what I'd done after flicking through a few tracks. Went back to the shop and the utter CUNT behind the counter wouldn't take it back. Guess he finally managed to shift the piece of shit. I gave him so much abuse and kicked the counter a few times, bounced the cd off the desk and stormed out in utter rage.
I can laugh about it now but jesus what a cunt for not taking letting me exchange even though i came back within half an hour :laugh: :laugh: :abbath:
I'll agree with you on Hell Awaits, very poor album in every respect (songs, playing, production - all subpa4), apart from the title track it's crap, just above Fiabolus at the bottom of their album rankings.
Nothing wrong with Killers, however. Like you, I'd heard Dickinson material before knowing anything about D'ianno. Went to a local music stall to buy my first Maiden album and went for Killers as it had the most songs. Even though the vocals were different (and yes, inferior) I was still blown away. I still get hairs rising on the back of my neck when The Ides Of March kicks in.
Quote from: Aborted on May 14, 2020, 12:06:42 AM
Quote from: Ducky on May 13, 2020, 11:33:05 PM
Actually, I think that's one of my ultimate peeves - being a skint teenager and only being able to buy an album once in a while, only to come home with a turkey.
To tie it into the thread, I'll never forget the utter disgust on my face when I splashed out on Killers, not knowing about Paul Dianno's tenure with the band and realising that they had a period where they sounded like a glorified pub band... oh well, at least the album sleeve was cool.
Reminds me when I went to buy Fear Factorys demanufacture on cd and mistakenly picked up remanufacture (total shit show remix album). Got home and copped what I'd done after flicking through a few tracks. Went back to the shop and the utter CUNT behind the counter wouldn't take it back. Guess he finally managed to shift the piece of shit. I gave him so much abuse and kicked the counter a few times, bounced the cd off the desk and stormed out in utter rage.
I can laugh about it now but jesus what a cunt for not taking letting me exchange even though i came back within half an hour :laugh: :laugh: :abbath:
One of the lads made the very same mistake with Remanufacture! :laugh: Out record shop guy was sound at least and allowed him to swap.
Quote from: Carnage on May 14, 2020, 12:12:39 AM
I'll agree with you on Hell Awaits, very poor album in every respect (songs, playing, production - all subpa4), apart from the title track it's crap, just above Fiabolus at the bottom of their album rankings.
Nothing wrong with Killers, however. Like you, I'd heard Dickinson material before knowing anything about D'ianno. Went to a local music stall to buy my first Maiden album and went for Killers as it had the most songs. Even though the vocals were different (and yes, inferior) I was still blown away. I still get hairs rising on the back of my neck when The Ides Of March kicks in.
I stuck on the first two albums there (haven't heard them in years) and there's three decent tracks on the first one (Phantom, Transylvania and Remember Tomorrow) and two on the second one (err, the two instrumentals).
My toes curled listening to some of DiAnno's shenanigans, especially Murders in the Rue Morgue and Prodigal Son. I keep calling it pub rock, but I've heard better pub bands than this drivel.
Quote from: vinterland on May 13, 2020, 07:31:16 PMDarkness Descends still the 1986 release which to these ears has yet to be bettered.
Wow. I mean the music is great, but Don Doty is one of the most untalented hacks to ever be falsely allowed near a recording studio. I say "one of" because Sean Killian should've been sent on a one way trip to the sun for his crimes against singing.
The pair of them make Mustaine sound like Pavaroti.
Pleasure to kill is the best thrash album of 1986 by a mile too 8)
Nuclear Assault's Game Over for me.
Speaking of Maiden, McBrain's playing peaked within the first few seconds with the intro to Where Eagles Dare.
Technically a great player, but horrible to listen to a lot of the time.
I much preferred Burr's playing alright.
All this talk of Maiden's first 2 lps being of "pub band" standard is just bollicks.
Yes there was excellent material released by other NWOBHM bands at the same time but Maidens early output was certainly at least on par with their contemporaries.
While not my favourites of theirs by any means, they were a rougher, less fluid but charming version of things to come. Both the s/t and Killers are much better than Number of the Beast which is a completely inconsistent album.
And yes, Clive Burr was an amazing drummer.
Quote from: Ducky on May 14, 2020, 02:26:51 AM
Sean Killian should've been sent on a one way trip to the sun for his crimes against singing.
Now that's just crazy talk.
And Slayer's finest album and moment is South of Heaven, and Ghost of War.
Quote from: Pagan Waltar on May 14, 2020, 03:38:03 PM
All this talk of Maiden's first 2 lps being of "pub band" standard is just bollicks.
Yes there was excellent material released by other NWOBHM bands at the same time but Maidens early output was certainly at least on par with their contemporaries.
While not my favourites of theirs by any means, they were a rougher, less fluid but charming version of things to come. Both the s/t and Killers are much better than Number of the Beast which is a completely inconsistent album.
And yes, Clive Burr was an amazing drummer.
NWOBHM may as well stand for "shite pub bands" in my book. I get their influence on what was to come, doesn't mean it isn't aural pollution to my ears.
NotB is inconsistent for sure, but it's their first one that doesn't have the pork pie/ASBO-enthusiast at the mic, so to me it's Maiden's first real album.
Some truly shocking shite in this thread.
Quote from: open face surgery on May 14, 2020, 04:44:03 PM
Some truly shocking shite in this thread.
Absolutely. I swear some of them are making it up just to get a reaction.. :laugh: :laugh:
Yeah. There must be a half price deal on lobotomies.
Half price deal on crash courses in brain surgery anyway.
Slayer's finest album and moment is South of Heaven, and Ghost of War.
[/quote]
I think what you are saying there is Show No Mercy, and every second of Show No Mercy
I could be wrong but on the old forum I thought the general consensus was that Hell Awaits was slayers best album - might even have been on the slayer topic here that I saw that . Anyway it's a great album end of.
Is young Kurt Cocaine and the rest of ye expressing dismay at controversial metal opinions being expressed in the thread called "Controversial Metal Opinions"?
Someone call the gendarmes!
Altars of Madness was 31 years old the other day,while it is an absolute iconic album,its probably 3rd/4th in my favourite MA albums.
Show No Mercy is unquestionably their best album for me followed by Hell Awaits and then I don't really think about the others anymore. Love/loved everything up to Divine Intervention, then Slayer split up.
MA. Covenant is king for me and maybe for death metal, then I would probably split the vote between Altars and Formulas, Blessed and Dommination. Got mad into Abominations in the last year or so but dunno where it goes. haha. Gateways does very little for me.
I got into Morbid Angel around Covenant and always struggled with subsequently getting into Altars of Madness. I can appreciate its importance and while it's not an album I'd complain about being put on, I'd never reach for it myself.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 14, 2020, 05:37:03 PM
Half price deal on crash courses in brain surgery anyway.
:laugh:
On the Slayer thing, South Of Heaven is the best of it for me but I was never mad into them. I still think the first 6 tracks or so from Diabolous In Musica are grand. Death's Head is a very good tune.
Regarding Morbid Angel, the first 6 albums are great-to-brilliant and that's it. Whatever it was that they had up to that is long gone.
Covenant the best MA for me,Blessed are the sick next.A toss up between Altars/Domination /Formulas for 3rd spot.
Gateways is a solid DM album,MA last decent effort.
Regarding Slayer (and I'm only talking about up to and including Divine Intervention), every release bar '83 - '85, contains filler.
Don't get me wrong, each other album has their absolute gems and classics but every time I listen to anything from RiB to DI makes want to skip certain tracks.
Reign in Blood is not the best Thrash album ever and Slayer were not the best band. That accolade possibly goes to Holy Terror.
Morbid Angel in order for me: Blessed, Altars/Covenant, Abominations, Domination, the 5 decent songs on Illud. Can't stand the Tucker albums, any of them.
Quote from: Carnage on May 14, 2020, 08:11:08 PM
Morbid Angel in order for me: Blessed, Altars/Covenant, Abominations, Domination, the 5 decent songs on Illud. Can't stand the Tucker albums, any of them.
Formulas even?,an absolute masterpiece.
Nope, I've never seen what the fuss was about when it came to Formulas.
It's dead handy if the missus is away.
Yeah, the Tucker stuff is weak as fuck. Blessed, Covenant, Altars, Domination... don't need the rest.
Gateways is my favourite by far. I think Vincent sound oddly link and camp, can't take him seriously at all. And Covenant is one of the worst albums from a big DM band. Bar God of Emptiness it's unredeemable shite.
Ooh, controversial! ;D
Oh sweet Jesus!!! Covenant is a killer album. The riffs are savage and the phase effect tops it offs. How can you not like it??
Formulas never really clicked for me with all the drum nonsense but covenant ???? Get out of it.
I just find it uninspired and boring. Sandoval is a one trick pony (he's tight and fast but that gets boring pretty quickly) and the guitar tone lacks any bite.
I like the widdly leads but that's about it.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone, ever criticise Covenent, so fair play! Like kicking a cow right in the bollocks in the middle of Bombay!
I think 'Hymns to a gas giant' is kind of cool.
Formulas is the business lads.
I never got into Covenant either, buddies couldn't understand it but it just wasn't my thing.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 14, 2020, 10:46:14 PM
I don't think I've ever heard anyone, ever criticise Covenent, so fair play! Like kicking a cow right in the bollocks in the middle of Bombay!
I think 'Hymns to a gas giant' is kind of cool.
:laugh:
I wouldn't be a fan of the band at all, but out of their first four Covenant is miles behind the others.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 14, 2020, 10:46:14 PM
I don't think I've ever heard anyone, ever criticise Covenent, so fair play! Like kicking a cow right in the bollocks in the middle of Bombay!
I think 'Hymns to a gas giant' is kind of cool.
A trans cow?
The only thing braver than dismissing 'Covenent' on a forum full of grumpy longhairs is bovine misgendering!
Heathen savages :laugh:
Blessed would be my go to, probably followed Covenant and Altars.
But since its the controversial thread, I didn't think Ilud was that bad
Morbid Angel - Illlud Divinum Insanus (The Remixes) is by far their best album....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL21zPqrB_mTKkj11eEqF3Bx0wMygZT8Sx
Enjoy.... :abbath:
As Formulas is getting a few thumbs up I'm going to give it another crack. I love covenant as it's the first one I heard. This morning I gave it another spin to make sure it wasn't just a time and place reminiscent fondness for it. I can definitely say that it's their best and that is that.
Quote from: Circlepit on May 15, 2020, 11:58:15 AM
As Formulas is getting a few thumbs up I'm going to give it another crack. I love covenant as it's the first one I heard. This morning I gave it another spin to make sure it wasn't just a time and place reminiscent fondness for it. I can definitely say that it's their best and that is that.
Do give Formulas another spin,a ferocious album!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on May 15, 2020, 10:30:32 AM
Morbid Angel - Illlud Divinum Insanus (The Remixes) is by far their best album....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL21zPqrB_mTKkj11eEqF3Bx0wMygZT8Sx
Enjoy.... :abbath:
You've just outed yourself as that one lad in everyone's year at school that bought Remanufacture and was fucking delighted with it :laugh:
Quote from: Ducky on May 15, 2020, 12:44:17 PM
You've just outed yourself as that one lad in everyone's year at school that bought Remanufacture and was fucking delighted with it :laugh:
That was me. I'm coming out.
I still think National Panel Beaters is great but sadly the rest of it didn't hold up well, or at all.
I actually bought Remanufacture when it came out,not my finest moment!
It went great with my tracksuit at the time
Quote from: Paul keohane on May 15, 2020, 12:49:34 PM
I actually bought Remanufacture when it came out,not my finest moment!
As did I, and a second time as part of the Demanufacture reissue. It's shite!
Man, I always thought those dance remix albums that were trendy in the 90s were cuntish. And when I look back at the low bar I generally had in terms of my own listening back then I shudder to think how awful it must sound now!
I never gave much of a bollocks about Slayer. I liked them as a kid, RIB and SOH were the two I listened to mostly, and a bit of Seasons now and again but they were always very much second place to Metallica who had more variety across their catalogue. Don't get me wrong, I like them and I'd happily listen to them if they were on but I honestly can't remember the last time it occurred to me to listen to one of their albums.
I listened to Suicidal Tendencies and Megadeth way more than Slayer back then too.
The big hook with me for Slayer was Lombardo's playing. Really gave their songs something most of the other bands I was getting into lacked.
I think he's the first drummer I ever heard that left my jaw on the floor and to this day most of my favourite music has amazing drumming.
Yeah, certainly. His drumming was great and they have some amazing songs but as a whole... They were never a band I found myself obsessed by.
Quote from: Ducky on May 14, 2020, 11:01:23 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 14, 2020, 10:46:14 PM
I don't think I've ever heard anyone, ever criticise Covenent, so fair play! Like kicking a cow right in the bollocks in the middle of Bombay!
I think 'Hymns to a gas giant' is kind of cool.
:laugh:
I wouldn't be a fan of the band at all, but out of their first four Covenant is miles behind the others.
Ahhhhh, that explains it. Your opinion is completely invalid as you have dicks for ears. :laugh:
Quote from: Ducky on May 15, 2020, 12:44:17 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on May 15, 2020, 10:30:32 AM
Morbid Angel - Illlud Divinum Insanus (The Remixes) is by far their best album....
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL21zPqrB_mTKkj11eEqF3Bx0wMygZT8Sx
Enjoy.... :abbath:
You've just outed yourself as that one lad in everyone's year at school that bought Remanufacture and was fucking delighted with it :laugh:
Best Fear Factory album by far. Only one I listen to these days. :abbath:
Quote from: open face surgery on May 15, 2020, 01:56:42 PM
Quote from: Ducky on May 14, 2020, 11:01:23 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 14, 2020, 10:46:14 PM
I don't think I've ever heard anyone, ever criticise Covenent, so fair play! Like kicking a cow right in the bollocks in the middle of Bombay!
I think 'Hymns to a gas giant' is kind of cool.
:laugh:
I wouldn't be a fan of the band at all, but out of their first four Covenant is miles behind the others.
Ahhhhh, that explains it. Your opinion is completely invalid as you have dicks for ears. :laugh:
No wonder I got dirty looks in Curry's when I put the demo headphones on my ears :laugh:
I love gang vocals. I wish there were more of them in metal.
They work brilliantly in punk and hardcore. Dunno how they'd sound on a funeral doom record though :laugh: Actually, I might have to give them a try on the next Bacterium album!
Really slow gang vocals. That could be class. Haha.
Seriously considering something like that 8)
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 15, 2020, 01:02:10 PM
Man, I always thought those dance remix albums that were trendy in the 90s were cuntish.
Remanufacture was indeed utter balls but I really liked the Fear is the Mindkiller ep. Also quite liked Godflesh's Songs of Love and Hate in Dub at the time. Dunno if I'd be arsed revisiting them, mind.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 16, 2020, 06:15:17 PM
Seriously considering something like that 8)
I can def see it working. It'd be mouldy as fuck. No controversy.
Twelve cans and a third of a bottle of scotch down the hatch and anything is possible :laugh:
I think it would be class as well. Real slow gang vocals. I don't have anything springing to mind where it's been done.
It does work very well on the punk and hardcore stuff and it makes me wonder why it didn't make it's way into more metal.
Also, Fear is the Mindkiller was much better than Remanufacture and Love and Hate in Dub is still very good.
Is it a case of Fear is the mind killer kinda came out before the whole dance remix thing became the norm?,so gets a pass?.
I think Fear is the Mindkiller doesn't suffer as much from the euro dance sounds that a lot of those type of albums fell into. It was more industrial in style as far as I remember but it's been a while.
I remember having a CD called Cyber Core Compilation and the stuff on it used to have meself and the 2 brothers in stitches at the fact people actually listened to this stuff. Die Krupps version of "One" was hilarious and so was almost all of the rest but there was a Scumgrief mix from FITM that was great and really stood out from the rest of the shite on the compilation, so it might just have been a bit more tasteful than some of its' contemporaries.
Fear Is The Mindkiller was done by the lads from Front Line Assembly, as opposed to your Euro dance crowd that usually got the job, so they'd have had an ear for it, filtered through their own industrial backgrounds.
FITM is excellent, first Fear Factory I heard (bought the Meathook Seed CD in Sound Cellar and Tommy stuck it on 'cos it was kinda similar).
Meathook Seed. Jesus. That's Metal Show top ten stuff! Is it any use? I can't remember it at all.
It's alright, has its moments. Haven't listened to it for a good 10 or 15 years. The second one was a big ball of shite alright.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 16, 2020, 07:40:49 PM
Twelve cans and a third of a bottle of scotch down the hatch and anything is possible :laugh:
:laugh: Anything except good vocals. Mudderajaysus.
Yeah, FITM was really industrial remixes of Soul of a New Machine, I'd have to check but I think it was all done by Rhys Fulber from Front Line Assembly. Whereas Remanufacture had a load of different guest remixes and was a blatant cash-in on the whole Prodigy/Junkie XL trend that Roadrunner were so eager to jump on at the time. I have (had) a lot of time for Love and Hate in Dub as Songs of Love and Hate is, for me, my favourite and most underrated Godflesh album. It kept the dark vibe of the original material, even emphasized it at times.
Fulber and Leeb, yeah.
If you enjoyed Love And Hate In Dub, you'll be pleased to hear that he's currently working on Us And Them In Dub. Us And Them is an underrrated album for me, it's like they partially bypassed the actual album and went straight to the remix stage. Nobody else liked it, though.
I liked it! I still do as well. I think every Godflesh album is underrated as it happens.
I'd love to hear Us and Them in Dub. Did you hear the Witch Hunt and Us and Them remixes off the end of In All Languages? If they are anything to go by we are in for a treat.
Actually disc 2 of In All Languages is a great compilation in itself. Some seriously uncommercial stuff on there.
I've got that alright, good compilation. These are all new remixes apparently, so we'll have those ones as bonus tracks.
This Godflesh talk reminds me: I must pick up the reformation material.
Ah great, I'm really looking forward to hearing these new mixes. The reformation stuff is great as well and doesn't tarnish the legacy in the slightest. You'd get the last one for cheap enough but A World Lit Only By Fire is going for awful prices wherever I've looked for it. I should have just bought it at the time but I was gone out of buying things for a few years at that stage.
I suppose I may either get a Godflesh appreciation thread going at this stage or get back on topic, so I'll leave it there as I haven't any controversial thoughts at the minute
Just picked up Post Self and the EP on Amazon handy enough.
Edit: Got AWLOBF on Ebay for around €20, better than I expected to pay TBH.
I see JKB is selling cassettes of Post Self on his site for 12 quid. You got a good deal on AWLOBF fair play.
I'm trying to get me hands on the 3cd set of Pure/Cold World/Slavestate for a while and it's pricey enough as well for something that was around a tenner on release
I got those collections as they were released, which was handy as I didn't have most of the albums on CD. The reissues of Streetcleaner and Hymns are going for big money these days alright, Discogs helped me out with Streetcleaner.
Someday, at least one of ye is going to listen to an album twice before declaring it unreal. And even more amazingly, someone here is going to get the end of that album without buying it.
First one is free, next prediction will cost ye a tenner
Unreal comment, bought the CD and T-shirt off Bandcamp 3 words into it.
Super unreal comments. I bought the t-shirt, LP and CD off Bandcamp because they sounded like another band that I like.
Savagely unrealistically unreal. I bought whatever they bought but I'll never listen to it or wear the shirt.
Unreal. As everybody knows, only tapes are real.
Quote from: Juggz on May 20, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
Unreal. As everybody knows, only tapes are real.
Unreal, reel to reel....
So if I buy a Reel 2 Real album on tape it will certainly be unreal. Fuck listening to it, the victory will be in the sense of belonging
Shut the fuck up ye annoying bastards
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 20, 2020, 07:02:47 PM
Shut the fuck up ye annoying bastards
Reality check.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on May 20, 2020, 04:40:02 PM
Quote from: Juggz on May 20, 2020, 01:34:51 PM
Unreal. As everybody knows, only tapes are real.
Unreal, reel to reel....
Why did I read that to the tune of lady in red.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on May 20, 2020, 07:02:47 PM
Shut the fuck up ye annoying bastards
I hadn't even got to the "fuck" part and I bought right into it
Back on topic so...
8 strings is too many. There is a bass guitar for those notes.
Robbo was Lizzy's best guitarist.
Sure, Gary was technically a better guitarist but in the context of Lizzy Robbo's style suited them more, the solo on the Live and Dangerous version of Still In Love With You is one of the best solo's ever recorded.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 20, 2020, 09:44:57 PM
Back on topic so...
8 strings is too many. There is a bass guitar for those notes.
I agree. I watched a few videos of Ihsahn playing through his tunes (Some really good stuff there, actually), and despite his playing being fantastic I find that ultra low tuning a bit too modern sounding.
There's something almost uncanny about it, as if it doesn't resonate in your head as a guitar.
Didn't Jeff Berlin (when pushed on why he "only" played four string basses) say something to the effect of let's explore the limits of what four strings can do before we need to start adding to it (prog nerds, correct me if I'm wrong here!).
That seems logical to me. It's like setting yourself boundaries when starting a band, like doom or death or whatever. Yes, on one hand you are limiting it tremendously, but if you are creative and into it you should be able to come up with something relevant and exciting. It can help focus your creativity I find. Once you eliminate the options you don't want you're unlikely to end up with a compromised teenage-y mishmash of disparate styles. Just because you can play a brutal DM riff and follow it with a funk part doesn't mean you should. It certainly doesn't mean you're avant garde :laugh:
After years of playing in a variety of tunings and on a few multi string instruments, I find a 7 string in B standard to be my favourite tuning and string count. Either with the low string dropped to A or not, it gives plenty of low end for what you're at and doesn't sacrifice any of the high end. I own an 8 string but think I've played it twice in the last three years. Just doesn't do it for me at all, going to flog it I'd say. I have a 6 string set up in a drop G sort of tuning and it's good sport to play in, but everything I write on it I end up reworking for the B or A tuning on the 7 once it goes to be used properly.
Been playing a good bit of bass at home lately and I think I prefer a 4 string tuned low/BEAD, than a 5 string standard.
I've no issues with 8 strings or anything like that once the songs are decent, although I do remember everyone going out to buy them a few years ago and just bashing away on the two low strings
Quote from: ochoill on May 28, 2020, 01:07:21 PM
Been playing a good bit of bass at home lately and I think I prefer a 4 string tuned low/BEAD, than a 5 string standard.
I've my 5 string tuned standard with a high C to add a bit more melodic touches, although I find the stuff I'm writing is a lot more straightforward these days and will probably just switch to a 4 string for comfort
At the other end of the scale, Max Cavalera says if you can't jumpdafuckup with 2 strings it aint worth doing
Judging by the head on Max these days, I'd say he uses one braincell per string which would use up most of his brain power.
This one may have been said. I think all the nwobhm is very meh
I file it in the same drawer as late 70s/ early 80s American punk rock in that I can appreciate its influence but I don't really get anything from listening to it.
Also as is the case with punk rock, I think a lot of people pretend to like it more than they actually do just because it gives them credibility and coolness points.
Not sure if this is controversial or not. I still love picture disks. Still buy them too. I never had a very sensitive ear so I don't really notice any drop in audio quality.
Y'all need to school yourself with Diamond Head and shut the fuck up with this "nwobhm is shite" nonsense.
https://youtu.be/a5OTUaZpJDs
What an absolute banger of an album. Sean Harris's sexy vocals and Brian Tatler's killer riffs.
Lightning to the Nations, The Prince, Am I Evil, It's Electric, Helpless.... all stone cold classics and I'll fight anybody who says otherwise :abbath:
EDIT: Nick Tart is also sexy
Nick Tart didn't join the band 'til a good 24 years after that album was released, but it's a serious album alright.
Diamond Head have some great tunes, but they all sound so limp. Almost as if NWOBHM is glorified pub band shite...
Brave New World is a good album but people who think it's the best of the reunion albums are incorrect. DOD and AMOLAD are clearly superior in writing, arrangements, ideas, lyrics and production.
Also a fair bit of BNW is songs that were written for VXI (Blood Brothers and Dream Of Mirrors for example) and it's funny how people deny this while trashing VXI and worshipping BNW.
Quote from: Carnage on May 29, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
Nick Tart didn't join the band 'til a good 24 years after that album was released, but it's a serious album alright.
Oops :-[
Original point still valid tho :abbath:
Quote from: Ducky on May 29, 2020, 10:55:35 AM
Diamond Head have some great tunes, but they all sound so limp. Almost as if NWOBHM is glorified pub band shite...
This is typically the perspective of people who first knew of Diamond Head via Metallica's covers (i.e. most of us), in comparison to which the originals are neither as well produced nor as heavy. But if you spend time with the albums, and especially the tracks that weren't covered by Metallica, you'll find that, no, they're not glorified pub band shite, although they do have touches of Zeppelin and Whitesnake in there, no doubt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fPl4ZVkSfc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOpHDRgbeIo
(Although, you'd be forgiven for thinking Seek & Destroy is a cover of this.)
And if you're generalizing from that and saying that all NWOBHM is glorified pub shite, please tell me what pub I can see stuff like this in:
https://youtu.be/MBBVzujDxzQ
Quote from: Ducky on May 29, 2020, 10:55:35 AM
Diamond Head have some great tunes, but they all sound so limp. Almost as if NWOBHM is glorified pub band shite...
I don't understand this and it makes me angry!! What part of Am I Evil sounds like glorified pub band shite? What even is glorified pub band shite!??
Angel Witch ain't pub rock either. Or Apocalypse. Jameson Raid 50/50, but the good stuff is so good.
Witchfinder General anyone?
Lyrics are a bit ropey (gimme my beer!) but who cares, the tunes are class.
Yep. Pagan Altar and Venom came out of that era too, no?
Quote from: ldj on May 29, 2020, 05:31:40 PM
Witchfinder General anyone?
Lyrics are a bit ropey (gimme my beer!) but who cares, the tunes are class.
'Death Penalty' is a great album. Lyrics are daft alright but Sabbath had shite lyrics too.
Savage are another NWOBHM band that don't get mentioned enough . 'Loose 'N Lethal' is a cracker of an album, it still sounds raw as fuck.
I wonder if it's a generational thing? I'd find anything that inspired Metallica and Megadeth really easy to listen to. Diamond Head, plenty of NWOBHM. That said, plenty of it is of it's time. The punk comment above too, I'd regularly listen to the Ramones, Misfits, NY Dolls, Dead Boys, Stooges, Minor Threat etc etc..I don't see why anyone couldn't listen to any of them bands and just love the vibe off them. That said, there is other stuff from that time that has become probably cliché in terms of punk and I'd find it harder to listen to.
There's plenty stuff someone maybe 5 or 6 years older than me would go mad for like the Horslips maybe or certain stuff from the 60's that I'd have a hard time listening to, maybe because it was what was kind of going out of style when I was small. The Beatles I'd never listen to, but I love the Stones and Cream for example.
My point being, if you're maybe only around 30 and Cradle of Filth or Emperor or something like Nile was what you fell in love with, then I can see how maybe NWOBHM and stuff like Maiden or Priest can seem tame or a bit cliché or cheesy. However, if we were talking like in boxing of greatest pound for pound fighter of all time, what them bands did in their era was just mindblowing. Doesn't mean you have to like them, but in 50 years time they'll be the ones that are still being listened to.
Or maybe I'm wrong?
You're bang on, Pedrito.
The new stuff is nice to have but, if music stopped at the end of 1993, none of us would be any worse off.
I mean... Cradle of Filth? Have a long fucking talk with yourselves, lads, seriously.
:laugh: I actually really like Dusk and her Embrace, but yeah, the old stuff is just so much more inventive and striving to not conform to it's own genre. I think the splitting down to minute fanny hair differences in genre was always going to happen but it reminds me of the way my uncle would talk about the blues. You had the original stuff and then it all got a bit snobby and up itself and if you didn't act a certain way or follow a certain way of going on then you weren't blues enough..all that oul waffle. It's like Behemoth in the other thread..jesus can you be any more predictable? That accepted way of being metal is just everything that metal was never meant to be
..ahh time to put the phone down :abbath:
:laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: Pedrito on May 29, 2020, 08:12:52 PM
My point being, if you're maybe only around 30 and Cradle of Filth or Emperor or something like Nile was what you fell in love with, then I can see how maybe NWOBHM and stuff like Maiden or Priest can seem tame or a bit cliché or cheesy. However, if we were talking like in boxing of greatest pound for pound fighter of all time, what them bands did in their era was just mindblowing. Doesn't mean you have to like them, but in 50 years time they'll be the ones that are still being listened to.
Or maybe I'm wrong?
I don't agree with that some people just don't like those kinds of bands myself being one of them. Black Sabbath I can appreciate and I also love nearly all eras of the Misfits but Megadeth, Judas Priest, Maiden, Venom etc. just sound terrible to me and yes the cheesey leather pants and long hair with short fringes doesn't help either as a lot of that stuff along with throwing up the metal horns is what I have always hated about listening to this kind of music but I could get past all that if I found the music was listenable (A perfect example is Panteras power metal album it is done in this style the only difference being the music is great). Pantera, Slayer, early Sepultura are to me what the Judas Priests and Iron Maidens are to a lot of other people.
That's essentially the point I was getting at. There's a certain aesthetic and vibe, and probably era that seems to turn you off, the spandex and fringes, and leather and spikes and yet most metal heads wouldn't bat an eyelid at it. I suspect it's generational, especially seeing that you'd have no problem listening to Pantera's Power Metal album which is as close to Painkiller as you're ever likely to get.
I never really got into traditional heavy metal tbh,i get that they are iconic ground breaking bands,but it never grabbed me.
As a young fella i kinda jumped straight in with early Slayer and Metallica,and moved straight into Death metal.
Years back in an old job a new guy started,he would have been 10 years older than me,a pure 80s rocker type.He would have seen me wearing metal shirts,and vise versa.So obviously we got chatting about metal.Thing is he was into all the old 80s NWOBHM etc,i genuinely had fuck all knowledge,a lot of it just never grabbed me.Im fully convinced he though i was a total bluffer and was just wearing metal shirts for the craic.
Gave Bolzer's "Hero" a spin there this morning and I'm still firmly of the opinion that (lyrics aside) they're the equivalent of a pound shop version of Mastodon.
I kind of get that there's a similarity there, at least with the very early Mastodon stuff, but Bölzer are heavier and darker bringing much more death and black metal to the fore. They sound absolutely nothing like any of the more recent, and I mean post-'Remission' era, Mastodon to me, though. Seems like an over-simplified assessment of Bölzer's sound by people who just don't like the clean vocals.
Nah for me the similarity is actually with Crack the Skye era Mastodon, the clean vocals are reminiscent of Troy Sanders, and I don't dislike the clean vocals either.
Mastodon are one of the few decent metal bands in the modern age that made it big, only natural that bands will come along that they've influenced, no matter how underground.
Yeah they lost something from the first two EPs and the demo and morphed into CtS-lite.
And I do like the clean vocals, the clean bits of "Hero" are the best bits of the album.
Hmmm, the similarity is in maybe the vocal style, but they're very different bands. Mastodon sound very Math-rock, their sound owes more to hardcore or stoner than metal I would.have said, while Bölzer come from a far more Black and death metal slant. The difference between the two is like leather boots and Vans/Converse, Motorhead vs Black Flag, Whiskey vs vegan burritos, tatts related to spirituality/philosophy vs tatts on your cock. Mastodon definitely ride that line between metal and something more like Crowbar, very American while Bölzer's sound is definitely European.
Two of my favourite and most listened to bands, and I see nothing beyond the most superficial of similarities between them. That said, Okoi has never hidden his appreciation of Mastodon, but from the nuts and bolts up, they're very different. Different approach to song structure, to vocal patterns, to production, to lyrical themes, to aesthetics, to the very understanding and intent of creating music. They've both very much got their own thing going on.
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Eh, future music is gonna be all smooth AOR and soft rock noodling. You're gonna love it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jgAnhDEUN4
Wild Stallions! Widdly widdly widdly woo...
I can't see any similarity between Bolzer and Mastodon whatsoever.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 30, 2020, 09:35:08 PM
That's essentially the point I was getting at. There's a certain aesthetic and vibe, and probably era that seems to turn you off, the spandex and fringes, and leather and spikes and yet most metal heads wouldn't bat an eyelid at it. I suspect it's generational, especially seeing that you'd have no problem listening to Pantera's Power Metal album which is as close to Painkiller as you're ever likely to get.
My point was Pantera played that style of music and even dressed that way during the power metal period but the music just stood on it's own because it was good enough. I have tried JP many times the music is just shite. I'll never forget as a teenager one of my friends putting on breaking the law on his stero from some comp CD he had lying around his room we just pissed ourselves laughing at it and still to this day laugh whenever that song is brought up.
That's a real problem with JP: inconsistency from period to period. Painkiller is so many leagues removed from Breaking The Law, it's hard to fathom it's even the same band.
Anything pre Defenders is going to sound quite dated, well produced NWOBHM essentially. The guitars won't have the distortion or effects on them.that came later. As Shep says Painkiller is a million miles away from Breaking the Law. Defenders, Screaming for Vengeance, most definitely Painkiller and their amazing recent record are where you'll find that Power Metal type sound. Anselmo was basically doing his best Halford impression right up through Cowboys from Hell.
My first Judas Priest album was the Metal Works compilation which gave a good overview of the different eras so I was never subsequently shocked or disappointed as I worked through their back catalogue.
That being said, Judas Priest are definitely an album to album band with lots of ups and downs along the way but when they're on form they're unquestionably (metal) god level.
Can't stand Iron Maiden.
Quote from: Blackout on June 03, 2020, 10:32:55 PM
Can't stand Iron Maiden.
You had your chance to speak yesterday, Blackout! :abbath:
Priest are super patchy for sure.
I remember British Steel was my first (and only) experience of them for a while, so me being not liking NWOBHM like I do, found it to be utterly risible.
Put on Painkiller at a friend's house one day (which was kinda on my radar because of Death's cover) and yeah, I packed all his JP albums into my backpack that evening.
Fun thing I only twigged recently - I checked out The Gun off the back of Priest's cover of "Race with the Devil" only to discover they were fronted by (and RwtD written by) a very young Adrian Gurvitz, he of cheesy 80s ballad "Classic" and contributor to The Bodyguard soundtrack fame.
Edit - just stuck on JP's version of RwtD - that fucking guitar tone :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
Speaking of Priest... :abbath:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yK_yxI7AlU
Maiden don't have a song better than Priest's best X number of songs, but they don't have a song worse than their worst either. Maiden exist in a Priest sandwich, where the top slice is toast, then there's a thick layer cheese going from perfectly melted down to cold, white moldy, brittle Wensleydale, and the bottom slice is a piece of stale bread lying flat in the spilled dregs of a can of Carlsberg Special Brew that's been used as an ash tray.
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Yeah I think the fact that Painkiller is the sound of JP being 12 albums deep into their career is astonishing.
They've had more than one shot a glory, for sure :abbath:
I love Jugulator, and yet somehow that never extended to me listening to any other JP stuff
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Yeah it's busting and the Ripper is a decent vocalist on it, although I didn't get much of a kick off him with Iced Earth
Ripper was and remains class. Cathedral Spires is one of the best songs Priest ever released.
I still think he sounded good but I just didn't like the cut of Iced Earth's jib would be a more accurate description
I think Barlow was a much better fit for Iced Earth, but The Glourious Burden with Ripper is still my favourite of theirs (minus that shite acoustic song)
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Quote from: Juggz on June 04, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Ripper was and remains class. Cathedral Spires is one of the best songs Priest ever released.
Ripper an amazing vocalist. Charred Walls of the Damned the first album...claaaasss
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Barlow was THE Iced Earth singer for me, none of the other fit so perfectly IMO. Ripper has his moments though, despite the jingoism of The Glorious Burden, there were some decent tracks on it - The Reckoning in particular - and I think the production is what let that album down.
My fave Iced Earth albums are Stormrider, The Glorious Burden and Dystopia... yet I'd still rate Barlow as their best vocalist :laugh:
I was never a fan of Ripper's vocals, not with Iced Earth, Priest, Charred Walls of the Damned, nor even when he turned up in the most unlikely of places (pretty sure I made a thread about this when it came out):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQT0a2BSM_Q
Speaking of Nevermore, Warrel Dane, compared to Ripper, always performed on a completely different level. To my ears and mind, Ripper's is a cringey, forced earnestness, Dane delivering a tragic theatrical style that adds layers of depth to the music. Was never a big Iced Earth fan, but definitely prefer Barlow's thrash edge to Ripper's approach.
Warrel Dane is (was, fuck) one of the best metal vocalists of all time. He had such amazing nuance and delivery, some of his stuff hits like a truck. The way he delivers "people hearing without listening" on their cover of The Sound of Silence is chilling.
Anyone deeming that 'controversial' needs a quick escort to the hall doors. Dane is up there with the best, no question. Actually, lyrically, he was way above most.
No, that's not controversial, but knocking Ripper may be.
Dane still doesn't get the kind of recognition he deserves, because he was never the singer in Iced Earth or Priest, or Maiden, or whatever, but he was more accomplished than any vocalist any of those bands ever had. There, there's your controversy haha.
Not a Nevermore fan, but his work on the first Sanctuary album is incredible, up there with the most powerful vocalists. I believe he damaged his vocal chords in the recording though.
.
Quote from: Cailleach on June 05, 2020, 12:48:07 PM
Not a fan of his vocals at all, but then I dislike nearly all power metal type vocals - the exception being Barlow
Quote from: Slaughterday on June 05, 2020, 11:37:39 AM
Not a Nevermore fan, but his work on the first Sanctuary album is incredible, up there with the most powerful vocalists. I believe he damaged his vocal chords in the recording though.
More likely after that because he was still screeching when they played live.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 05, 2020, 10:10:11 AM
No, that's not controversial, but knocking Ripper may be.
Dane still doesn't get the kind of recognition he deserves, because he was never the singer in Iced Earth or Priest, or Maiden, or whatever, but he was more accomplished than any vocalist any of those bands ever had. There, there's your controversy haha.
Yeah surely anyone with ears and only a cursory sense of music can hear Dane's ability, no controversy in stating his greatness at all.
This reminds me of an interview I read in a Century Media catalogue with Alexi Laiho where they played him some recent releases, Dead Heart in a Dead World being one of them.
His response was along the lines of "I thought the band would be all about dragons and stuff, the guitarist is good I guess but they need proper vocals". Fuck that guy.
Well, if you want the least controversial opinion this thread will ever contain, it's that Alexi Laiho is a thoroughbred idiot.
Didn't see the Shepherd's original post last night, just saw Ducky's one about Dane and thought, eh?,.wha? ,how's that controversial?
My bad , my soz
Quote from: Ducky on June 05, 2020, 05:52:42 PM
This reminds me of an interview I read in a Century Media catalogue with Alexi Laiho where they played him some recent releases, Dead Heart in a Dead World being one of them.
His response was along the lines of "I thought the band would be all about dragons and stuff, the guitarist is good I guess but they need proper vocals". Fuck that guy.
Shame he won't take his own advice, Bodom would have been pretty decent with an actual singer fronting them
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Bought a huge amount from them back in the day when the average price of a CD was 26 DM. Apart from the catalogues you'd get a Soundcheck CD where you could get a taster of some bands you may not have been overly familiar with when Youtube and Spotify were unheard of. Releases by bands such as Troll, Unanimated and Vinterland were all on offer for beteen £6 and £8. Learnt German in school so had a rough idea what I was buying. Displeased Records in the Netherlands were also generous with their catalogues when the euro came in used to send them well concealed cash in the post. Never let me down once.
Quote from: mugz on June 05, 2020, 11:56:39 PM
I miss those days when labels would send out printed material. I used to have a bunch of mags from Nuclear Blast
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Sorry to hear that but unsurprising for the day and age we're living in. Could not fault Displeased in all the years I dealt with them. Like No Fashion Records and Cacophonous sometimes the smaller and more obscure labels turn up trumps when it comes to unearthing classics.
Quote from: mugz on June 06, 2020, 01:37:07 PM
Quote from: vinterland on June 06, 2020, 01:18:15 PM
Bought a huge amount from them back in the day when the average price of a CD was 26 DM. Apart from the catalogues you'd get a Soundcheck CD where you could get a taster of some bands you may not have been overly familiar with when Youtube and Spotify were unheard of. Releases by bands such as Troll, Unanimated and Vinterland were all on offer for beteen £6 and £8. Learnt German in school so had a rough idea what I was buying. Displeased Records in the Netherlands were also generous with their catalogues when the euro came in used to send them well concealed cash in the post. Never let me down once.
Quote from: mugz on June 05, 2020, 11:56:39 PM
I miss those days when labels would send out printed material. I used to have a bunch of mags from Nuclear Blast
until just now didn't know Displeased had folded. what's the world worth when all the random small, often Dutch, metal labels are done for
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Inspired by the "now playing" thread, the last sucker by ministry is a fantastic album
Quote from: skuddington on June 14, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
Inspired by the "now playing" thread, the last sucker by ministry is a fantastic album
No Glory is a great tune
Quote from: skuddington on June 14, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
Inspired by the "now playing" thread, the last sucker by ministry is a fantastic album
Quote from: lifeeternal on June 14, 2020, 02:07:24 PM
Quote from: skuddington on June 14, 2020, 11:31:49 AM
Inspired by the "now playing" thread, the last sucker by ministry is a fantastic album
No Glory is a great tune
I really wanted and tried hard to like that album, I really did. No Glory is not bad to be fair and there are good moments scattered through the album but in the end it just wasn't enough to make me want to listen to it ever again. It got a fairer crack of the whip than a lot of albums because it still says Ministry on it. I wonder if I hadn't been familiar with them and heard it, maybe I'd have liked it more instead of measuring it against their classic stuff.
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I love Ministry up until about 2003. Saw them on the Animositisomina tour and they were phenomenal. Saw them on the C U LaTour in 08 and they were only ok.
I wasn't super familiar with ministry when I got it, I'm still not tbh, have dark side and Psalm and last sucker. Maybe that's the trick! Saw them live at wacken I think? Can't remember when but Joey jordison was on drums, and I was blown away, wasn't expecting much, I kind of considered them a studio band for some reason. But yeah, die in a crash and the dick song are both great too.
Still a big regret of mine missing them in Temple bar music centre in 2003,the gig in 08 wasnt great at all,for a so called final show/tour they didnt play enough old material.Overall it was just a flat show.
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You mean the '90s, yeah?
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When I think of 5 years ago my mind always goes to the '90s. Every date after 1982 sounds wrong to me anyway.
Quote from: Paul keohane on June 18, 2020, 10:37:01 AM
Still a big regret of mine missing them in Temple bar music centre in 2003,the gig in 08 wasnt great at all,for a so called final show/tour they didnt play enough old material.Overall it was just a flat show.
It sort of had the Hired Hands feeling going on and definitely not enough of the classic stuff. I got locked and jumped around but a lot of the show didn't stick in the memory at all. Contrast that with the TBMC show and it was the Sphinctour lineup and a fucking fantastic setlist that was only missing Burning Inside to be 100 percent perfect. Jourgensen and Barker were both in great form and the 2 drummers really blew the shit out of me. Had the setlist stuck to me wall for years and I used to reminisce regularly looking at it.
Maiden's Janick Gers is just a prancing clown and not even plugged in live...
Quote from: astfgyl on June 18, 2020, 11:31:27 PM
Quote from: Bomberman on June 18, 2020, 11:29:41 PM
not even plugged in live...
Is that actually true?
Well I dunno for sure...but watching him prance around on stage and throwing his guitar around and all makes me think he couldn't possibly be...maybe just occasionally for some solo or so...and as Adrian Smith said in an interview a while ago when asked about Gers' antics, he said "I'd lose the plot"...
I don't know about the plugged in bit, but he's an irritating twat onstage. Just fucking play and stop prancing about like you're Jimi Hendrix with electrodes on your sac.
I feel a bit like I dodged a bullet by never ending up getting into Iron Maiden
Quote from: astfgyl on June 19, 2020, 12:04:32 AM
I feel a bit like I dodged a bullet by never ending up getting into Iron Maiden
That's an interesting take on it.
Gers didn't join them until their eighth record at which point they had lost the plot a bit anyway. Doesn't take away from the 80s classics.
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Quote from: Bomberman on June 18, 2020, 11:29:41 PM
Maiden’s Janick Gers is just a prancing clown and not even plugged in live…
Completely untrue. Seen Maiden a lot of times and you can tell when he plays a solo quite easily.
I'm going to stick up for him because 1) he's a very talented guitar player that's fun to watch and 2) his off-kilter style of playing and songwriting gives an extra angle to Maiden's repertoire.
Also he gave the band's live performances a massive boost when he joined. Compare Maiden in 1986-88 with Maiden in 1992, they are
clearly a tighter and more intense band by the latter point with tons of energy.
In 1986 Dickinson was singing on about 60% power for the entire tour (seriously, just look on Youtube) because he was still somewhat worn out from the insanely long and intense 84-85 tour. In 1988 he was on better form, but the Donington show that year was abysmal, possibly one of the worst Maiden performances ever - timing mistakes and wrong notes all over the shop and Dickinson singing some songs an octave out of tune.
Gers is fine. He's the fall guy because no-one wants to try to pull Harry back out of his own arse since he went up there at the end of the 80's.
The Great Southern Trendkill is Pantera's Sabotage.
But Sabotage is good.
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In what way?
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I guess he was asking the person making the comparison with Sabotage, which has me intrigued too, since it could be interpreted in any number of ways depending on subjective opinion of one or both albums :/
In the wider context of both albums.
Sabotage and TGST are both records made by bands with their backs to the wall and middle finger in the air. Both are arguably the last worthwhile/classic records of the classic Sabbath line up and Pantera. Both were made in trying circumstances and amidst band tensions - Sabbath were coming out of a year-long legal battle with their former management, Pantera were affected by Anselmo's distancing from the rest of the band and the controversies surrounding him at the time. Both were made by bands strung out on heavy substance usage - Sabbath were complete coke heads at this point (and were doing practically everything else under the sun as well), Pantera were heavy alcoholics and Anselmo had started using heroin. Both albums are considered as overlooked classics by some critics and also sections of the band's fan base. Both albums are also the most experimental and creatively varied each band got. And both albums are each band's most abrasive, underpinned by seething anger that in places is almost psychotic (seriously, just listen to The Writ for unbridled venom, and the sheer intensity of some of the songs on TGST). Ozzy and Anselmo both sound they are on the point of going over the edge at times.
I think there are a lot of similarities. Both albums just have an almighty "fuck you" vibe going on, with the band just going for it. There's strong reasons for saying that both are each band's high point.
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Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on June 19, 2020, 04:07:16 PM
In the wider context of both albums.
Sabotage and TGST are both records made by bands with their backs to the wall and middle finger in the air. Both are arguably the last worthwhile/classic records of the classic Sabbath line up and Pantera. Both were made in trying circumstances and amidst band tensions - Sabbath were coming out of a year-long legal battle with their former management, Pantera were affected by Anselmo's distancing from the rest of the band and the controversies surrounding him at the time. Both were made by bands strung out on heavy substance usage - Sabbath were complete coke heads at this point (and were doing practically everything else under the sun as well), Pantera were heavy alcoholics and Anselmo had started using heroin. Both albums are considered as overlooked classics by some critics and also sections of the band's fan base. Both albums are also the most experimental and creatively varied each band got. And both albums are each band's most abrasive, underpinned by seething anger that in places is almost psychotic (seriously, just listen to The Writ for unbridled venom, and the sheer intensity of some of the songs on TGST). Ozzy and Anselmo both sound they are on the point of going over the edge at times.
I think there are a lot of similarities. Both albums just have an almighty "fuck you" vibe going on, with the band just going for it. There's strong reasons for saying that both are each band's high point.
yes, I can go along with all that
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Quote from: mugz on June 19, 2020, 04:13:28 PM
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on June 19, 2020, 02:14:06 PM
The Great Southern Trendkill is Pantera's Sabotage.
your followup explanation is the opposite of how the initial statement came across
Hmm OK. I basically mean that the contextual background, approach and vibe of both albums are similar.
Sabotage is anything but standard Sabbath though, it's a wild ride.
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Quote from: mugz
sabotage is just standard sabbath
Quote from: mugz on June 19, 2020, 04:11:36 PM
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on June 19, 2020, 04:07:16 PM
Both are arguably the last worthwhile/classic records of the classic Sabbath line up.
Both albums are considered as overlooked classics
Both albums are also the most experimental and creatively varied
Both albums are each band's most abrasive
There's strong reasons for saying that both are each band's high point.
yes, I can go along with all that
Are you saying that Sabotage is only standard quality Sabbath, but it's also all those other things?
Or are you saying that Sabbath, as their standard, are always all those other things?
Either way they are two quality albums with very strong openers. Hole in the Sky is one of my favourite Sabbath songs, and that cowboy riff at the end of The Great Southern Trendkill is pure tasty.
Just saying The Great Southern Trendkill is great. Drag The Waters is a bit of a drag, fair enough but the rest of it is all quality
The last two Pantera albuns were shite, TGST is just that bit less shit than RTS.
Sabotage is great, but that and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath are just below the standard of the first four, with a couple of filler tracks on each. Still leagues ahead of their other two, of course.
TGST is one of the best albums ever recorded. It was one of my first proper heavy albums and my first Pantera one. I still listen to it regularly, only had it on last week. Not many albums that I liked when first getting into metal that I can still listen to today.
Quote from: mickO))) on June 19, 2020, 07:12:54 PM
TGST is one of the best albums ever recorded.
:abbath:
For me, it's definitely Pantera's best album. When I first heard it, it led me to completely re-evaluate this band which I had up until then not really thought very much of (based off Vulgar, Cowboys, Far Beyond). Everything else they did can sometimes feel kinda one-dimensional beside it, even though I now enjoy it. TGST is the tortured, confused decadence of a band who were all about excess, somehow perfectly manifest in some killer metal music. As Cosmic was I think trying to get it, they just captured in music what was actually happening to them, and if you click with that, it just resonates in a way none of their other stuff does.
I think in flames re recording of clayman is actually better then the original, getting an awful amount orf abuse online though so seems im the only one.
TGST is patchy as fuck. Some killer, mostly filler. Too many songs with parts that don't match shoehorned together and those poxy clicky clicky bass drums. The only great thing about it is the feeling of relief when it ends.
Surely Far Beyond has the clickiest kick of any Pantera album...?
100% agree with the kicks on FBD. Probably the most egregious example I can think of with any album and it's one of the reasons I think it's the poorest of their (metal) albums.
Quote from: Thrashssacre on June 19, 2020, 07:47:40 PM
I think in flames re recording of clayman is actually better then the original, getting an awful amount orf abuse online though so seems im the only one.
Didn't even realise they'd redone it, completely gave up on that band ages ago
Quote from: Carnage on June 19, 2020, 06:38:09 PM
Sabotage is great, but that and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath are just below the standard of the first four, with a couple of filler tracks on each.
Where is the filler on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath? Ok, Fluff I could do without. It does sound lovely but I could do without it on the album, so I'll give you that. Nothing wrong with the rest of the tracks though:
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath - banger
A National Acrobat/Sabbra Cadabra - rifftastic
Killing Yourself to Live - wibbly wobbly wonderful
Who Are You - Synthy and Spacy
Looking for Today/Spiral Architect - ending the album with a feel good feeling
What's the problem!?
Pantera related, I actually love the clicky clicks but Far Beyond Driven is my least favourite album of theirs. Something about the "machine" like sounds on it doesn't agree with me.
Quote from: Trev on June 19, 2020, 09:44:11 PM
Quote from: Thrashssacre on June 19, 2020, 07:47:40 PM
I think in flames re recording of clayman is actually better then the original, getting an awful amount orf abuse online though so seems im the only one.
Didn't even realise they'd redone it, completely gave up on that band ages ago
Can't blame you there they've released some amount of sh1te in recent years.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on June 19, 2020, 01:22:12 PM
Quote from: Bomberman on June 18, 2020, 11:29:41 PM
Maiden's Janick Gers is just a prancing clown and not even plugged in live...
Completely untrue. Seen Maiden a lot of times and you can tell when he plays a solo quite easily.
I'm going to stick up for him because 1) he's a very talented guitar player that's fun to watch and 2) his off-kilter style of playing and songwriting gives an extra angle to Maiden's repertoire.
Also he gave the band's live performances a massive boost when he joined. Compare Maiden in 1986-88 with Maiden in 1992, they are clearly a tighter and more intense band by the latter point with tons of energy.
In 1986 Dickinson was singing on about 60% power for the entire tour (seriously, just look on Youtube) because he was still somewhat worn out from the insanely long and intense 84-85 tour. In 1988 he was on better form, but the Donington show that year was abysmal, possibly one of the worst Maiden performances ever - timing mistakes and wrong notes all over the shop and Dickinson singing some songs an octave out of tune.
Sure, they might switch him on for a solo temporarily, as I wrote earlier...and yes, Gers has written a small few good songs, though I still find it hard to see how one could see him as an improvement in any way...Smith left, okay, so they had to find a new guy, and Bruce happened to know Gers...and what does any of Gers' idiotic antics have to do with how badly Bruce sang years before Gers joined the band btw?
Quote from: Thrashssacre on June 19, 2020, 07:47:40 PM
I think in flames re recording of clayman is actually better then the original, getting an awful amount orf abuse online though so seems im the only one.
Not an In Flames fan so can't comment but in a similar vein:
I'd take Let There Be Blood over Bonded By Blood any day of the week. Baloff's shit vocals render the original completely unlistenable for me.
He's a shit singer, but he's able to project his raw attitude in his voice which I think is pretty cool, so I wouldn't render him "unlistenable".
I will listen to Let There be Blood maybe once a year, but it's the 80's thrash guitar sound that will have me reaching for Bonded by Blood time and time again.
I'm in the Paul Baloff is unlistenable camp too, although he's not quite "Sean Killian should be shot into space for his crimes against music" bad.
See also - Don Doty.
Quote from: Ducky on June 20, 2020, 10:36:40 AM
I'm in the Paul Baloff is unlistenable camp too, although he's not quite "Sean Killian should be shot into space for his crimes against music" bad.
See also - Don Doty.
Yep, I mean I still love all the albums they were on, but could have been even better with a proper vocalist. Seems a lot of those thrash bands just gave the singing job to whichever of their mates was around at the time
It really did seem that way, which seems to be be counterproductive to them all learning their instruments and becoming tight units.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 19, 2020, 09:24:12 PM
Surely Far Beyond has the clickiest kick of any Pantera album...?
For sure, but those on TGST are still thin as fuck compared to everyone else :laugh:
Quote from: Ducky on June 20, 2020, 10:36:40 AM
I'm in the Paul Baloff is unlistenable camp too, although he's not quite "Sean Killian should be shot into space for his crimes against music" bad.
See also - Don Doty.
Yeah, Killian is woeful too, I can't enjoy Vio-Lence at all as a result. Exodus have always had shit singers to be fair, I wouldn't be a far of the other two lads, but Dukes was the least shit of the three.
The exception to the rule for me is John Connolly. His voice really grates too, but I can't imagine Nuclear Assault with any other singer. Game Over is my (joint) favourite thrash album, despite him.
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I had no idea it was held in such high regard.
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The Great Southern Trendkill is easily their best album.
Plus, it has that Ty Tabor-worship in the form of the Floods outro.
Speaking of Pearl Jam, although far from the best track on Grace, Eternal Life by Jeff Buckley is a better Pearl Jam song than any Pearl Jam song.
Quote from: Ducky on June 21, 2020, 12:03:36 AM
The Great Southern Trendkill is easily their best album.
Plus, it has that Ty Tabor-worship in the form of the Floods outro.
That outro is something else indeed. Whole song is great actually.
Speaking of Jeff Buckley, I had Grace in my hand the other day and put it back on the shelf. The only track I know is Hallelujah. Is that representative? Without putting myself through actually finding out like
Yes and no.
This might actually be a controversial opinion but I don't get why everyone creams themselves over the outro riff in 'Floods'. The whole song is brilliant and the fade out riff is cool and atmospheric and all, but hardly the highlight of the song. Several times when I've seen people comment on that part I've had to listen to it again to see if I'm missing a section or something. Why is it so amazing to you all? I'm honestly (genuinely- genuwhinely even!) baffled by the inordinate praise.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 21, 2020, 11:29:25 AM
Quote from: Ducky on June 21, 2020, 12:03:36 AM
The Great Southern Trendkill is easily their best album.
Plus, it has that Ty Tabor-worship in the form of the Floods outro.
That outro is something else indeed. Whole song is great actually.
Speaking of Jeff Buckley, I had Grace in my hand the other day and put it back on the shelf. The only track I know is Hallelujah. Is that representative? Without putting myself through actually finding out like
There are other brilliant songs on 'Grace'. 'Hallelija' is overplayed to death (a great song none the less) but the likes of 'Lover You Should Have Come Over' leave it in the dust.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on June 21, 2020, 11:40:20 AM
This might actually be a controversial opinion but I don't get why everyone creams themselves over the outro riff in 'Floods'. The whole song is brilliant and the fade out riff is cool and atmospheric and all, but hardly the highlight of the song. Several times when I've seen people comment on that part I've had to listen to it again to see if I'm missing a section or something. Why is it so amazing to you all? I'm honestly (genuinely- genuwhinely even!) baffled by the inordinate praise.
It's only great in the context of what has come before. Taken as a loop on its' own it's just a nice piece of guitar plucking but the presentation is everything
Buy Grace next time you have the opportunity. Wonderful album.
Yep, and get the deluxe version if you can, not a bad second on it. The title track is a personal favourite.
I should have picked it up ta fuck for the 1.50
Instead I picked up a chemical brothers album which is unremittingly shit. It surely couldn't be any worse than that. I'm actually going to throw the chemical bros one in the bin
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I'd rather find something new from the old days than bother trying to search for the new stuff of the present. It's a way of trying to limit myself
I'd recommend hitting a bong rather than dropping a yoke before you go music shopping :abbath:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on June 21, 2020, 11:40:20 AM
This might actually be a controversial opinion but I don't get why everyone creams themselves over the outro riff in 'Floods'. The whole song is brilliant and the fade out riff is cool and atmospheric and all, but hardly the highlight of the song. Several times when I've seen people comment on that part I've had to listen to it again to see if I'm missing a section or something. Why is it so amazing to you all? I'm honestly (genuinely- genuwhinely even!) baffled by the inordinate praise.
Yeah the atmosphere is what does it for me.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 21, 2020, 12:26:01 PM
I should have picked it up ta fuck for the 1.50
Instead I picked up a chemical brothers album which is unremittingly shit. It surely couldn't be any worse than that. I'm actually going to throw the chemical bros one in the bin
Go buy Grace for sure. It's a short, but pretty varied album. The way he holds a note at the end of the title track still gives me shivers twenty years after I first heard it.
Grab Sketches for My Sweetheart the Drunk as well. He died before it was released. It's a touch more rock orientated, but no less brilliant. Katatonia even covered a song from it (Nightmares by the Sea).
That's a really good one alright, if a bit disjointed. The expanded version of Live At Sin-Éis brilliant too, as is Live Á L'Olympia.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 21, 2020, 02:49:03 PM
I'd recommend hitting a bong rather than dropping a yoke before you go music shopping :abbath:
I agree. I really can't say enough bad things about that chemical brothers album. I wouldn't even listen to it if I was buzzing. Just no merit whatsoever
What one is it, out of curiosity? The first two are brilliant.
Quote from: Juggz on June 20, 2020, 05:01:29 PM
I had no idea it was held in such high regard.
It's the only Pantera record I still listen to. It's their best in my opinion. Not sure I would hold it up as an all time metal classic, but it sure is a beast of an album.
Baffling. I found it to be a complete damp squib on release, and the only thing that's changed for me in the interim is that it now also sounds dated.
Still, it's a masterpiece compared to RTS.
Quote from: Carnage on June 21, 2020, 04:33:25 PM
Baffling. I found it to be a complete damp squib on release, and the only thing that's changed for me in the interim is that it now also sounds dated.
Still, it's a masterpiece compared to RTS.
Yeah, that's it for me too. I thought it was weak then, continuing the slide which started with FBD, still think it's weak now.
Quote from: Juggz on June 21, 2020, 04:36:24 PM
I thought it was weak then... still think it's weak now.
I get that Vulgar must have sounded like, well, a punch to the face after Cowboys, but I think Trendkill not only objectively has as much weight behind it, in terms of sound and composition, but also that of all Pantera's album Vulgar has aged the worst/seems now by far the most immature. Trendkill has swagger. Looking at the circumstances brought up above, maybe that swagger was actually stagger, but hey, that's sublimation for ya!
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Surrender. I have surrendered it to the bin.
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Are the Chemical Brothers worth checking out? I never enjoyed their singles and any tracks licenced for games (mostly Wipeout) are the weakest on the soundtrack by far.
Exit Planet Dust and Dig Your Own Hole are great, went a bit bland and samey after that IMO.
Couple of good tracks here and there, but imo your time would be much better spent with some slightly more underground stuff like Noisia, Black Sun Empire, Gesaffelstein, etc.
Did you just make those band names up? :laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on June 22, 2020, 11:56:17 AM
Did you just make those band names up? :laugh:
Rumbled! I took the names of some new Eastern European BM acts and just sprinkled in a few vowels :abbath:
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Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 22, 2020, 11:41:37 AM
Couple of good tracks here and there, but imo your time would be much better spent with some slightly more underground stuff like Noisia, Black Sun Empire, Gesaffelstein, etc.
Gesaffelstein was on the cusp of being huge it seemed about 10 years ago but it never seemed to happen. Saw him in here and he finished with Interzone by Joy Division. Savage. Saw Noisia in Austria with a head full of ket and it was fuckin mental.
Quote from: open face surgery on June 23, 2020, 06:08:03 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 22, 2020, 11:41:37 AM
Couple of good tracks here and there, but imo your time would be much better spent with some slightly more underground stuff like Noisia, Black Sun Empire, Gesaffelstein, etc.
Gesaffelstein was on the cusp of being huge it seemed about 10 years ago but it never seemed to happen. Saw him in here and he finished with Interzone by Joy Division. Savage. Saw Noisia in Austria with a head full of ket and it was fuckin mental.
Haha, yeah; Gesaffelstein is why I added "slightly". Was thinking someone would come in and tell me that these acts weren't underground at all, but Andy's immediate response put that worry to sleep :laugh: :abbath:
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We are the Night is a very underrated chemical bros album.
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I stuck on some Orbital at a house party a while back for one of the (younger) dance/electronic heads and he said "no one asked for your weird hippy shit from the 70s".
No rearin' on some of them.
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one good thing about metal is that by and large there's huge respect in the youngsters for the 80s and 90s styles of metal and an appreciation of the 60s and 70s rock and metal stuff too.
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This is very true but metal attracts a more intelligent type of fan than techno/dance in fairness - thats something I've picked up being a frequenter of metal gigs as well as raves anyway .
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Both genres apparently see themselves as attracting enough "stupid" people for them to have each independently felt the need to christen a respective sub-genre in the most cringe-worthy way possible: "Intelligent Dance Music" and "Thinking Man's Metal"
:-X
Even since I was young I've had a loathing for techno/dance/whatever music. I find it way more upsetting than disinteresting. Perhaps being subjected to it everywhere in the 90's pissed me off. There are plenty of genres that I don't like and don't find aggravating.
Last couple of orbital shows I've been to had crowds similar to the likes of an 80s metal band in that it's the young ones mixed with the older die hards.
Quote from: hellfire on June 25, 2020, 11:50:47 PM
Even since I was young I've had a loathing for techno/dance/whatever music. I find it way more upsetting than disinteresting. Perhaps being subjected to it everywhere in the 90's pissed me off. There are plenty of genres that I don't like and don't find aggravating.
It's like anything else you are not into really in that the stuff you are subjected to in general is the most popular selection of the style and isn't really representative of the interesting things being done within the confines of the given genre.
There are rakes of good things happening in techno/dance/whatever. I was allergic to the idea for a long time before I realised most people are just into shit things and it was being misrepresented to me.
Also there is no way that the dance crowd in general are more or less intelligent than the metal crowd. There are shit lads attached to all types of music and don't let it get in the way of finding the good things is what I guess I'm getting at.
Saying all that, I have bad feelings about a good few types of music so I'm contradicting myself as usual
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Ah jaysus no, Industrial is not shit at all. It furthers the point I was making that we are simply missing out on the good stuff in any genre we don't care to explore. For every Combichrist there is a Throbbing Gristle, and lo and behold the chances are that one would come across Combichrist sooner than TG if unwilling to put the effort in. Take Soul, for example: I have never heard any of it that I've ever enjoyed, but I bet it is there somewhere, waiting to be discovered and I never will but that doesn't mean it's actually shit
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I really like industrial. The idea of it more often than the actual tunes admittedly, but there is some truly transcendent stuff out there. A favourite of mine is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKHH-vXxSzo
Beautiful and disgraceful at the same time; it really pushes the idea of beauty and horror at once.
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Lol you wouldn't be right from there on in! it's a sick cunt of a tune that almost flies in the face of music in general. I like some other NON stuff, but that is the pinnacle of his achievements right there
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I hear that, too. And yet as an example of Industrial in it's purest form it is truly beautiful
Quote from: astfgyl on June 26, 2020, 11:42:04 PM
I really like industrial. The idea of it more often than the actual tunes admittedly, but there is some truly transcendent stuff out there. A favourite of mine is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKHH-vXxSzo
Beautiful and disgraceful at the same time; it really pushes the idea of beauty and horror at once.
That sounds for all the world like Glass's work for Koyaanisqatsi, but cranked through an old valve speaker with a ripped cone at full gain.
It's certainly the most beautiful example of Industrial music I've heard so far
Here is an actual debatable opinion, instead of 'I don't like this band'.
Ignoring the fact that they almost definitely had no interest in this, but hypothetically, with the right marketing, and maybe a change of name, The Devil's Blood could have been pitched as Florence and The Machine for goth girls, and been a lot more popular than they were.
The Devil's Blood. I bought their first album off the back of an article or review by Jon Horsley in Terrorizer, but hated it immediately. Mentioned it on their forum and he offered to buy it off me as he'd lost his copy (I'd long since traded or sold it at that stage). Could never get into them despite liking the idea of them.
TDB were great. I haven't had them on in years, actually. Their gig in The Pint was savage
Quote from: Crystal_Logic on July 02, 2020, 02:53:00 PM
Ignoring the fact that they almost definitely had no interest in this, but hypothetically, with the right marketing, and maybe a change of name, The Devil's Blood could have been pitched as Florence and The Machine for goth girls, and been a lot more popular than they were.
The only comparison I can see between TDB and Florence is that neither are particularly heavy, but other than that, no similarities whatsoever. Maybe as a result of their image, and their association with heavy metal acts, there were certain preconceptions that they would be much heavier than they actually were, which was an occult rock band taking its cues from a classic rock sound. I liked some of their stuff, not a huge fan by any means, but I thought they were quite unique for a certain period of time, until the clones started to materialize.
Middle period Darkthrone is where the goods are.
which albums? Like Panzerfaust til The Cult.. is what I would consider mid period. You could be on to something......
I'd go even more recent. The Underground Resistance is my go to Darkthrone album.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 07, 2020, 12:05:09 AM
which albums? Like Panzerfaust til The Cult.. is what I would consider mid period. You could be on to something......
I count Panzerfaust amongst the classics, and The Cult as a start of the New Era. Everything inbetween just slays without breaking any new ground.
Definitely would prefer Darkthrone's more recent stuff these days, I left the frostbitten forests behind a long time ago, swapped em for a dark, dingy tavern where denim and leather abound and the two boys dig out those dirty great eighties infested riffs for those of us spilling spilling sloppy pints and banging our bald patches.
Quote from: mugz on June 25, 2020, 05:07:47 PM
Quote from: Blackout on June 25, 2020, 01:39:16 PM
We are the Night is a very underrated chemical bros album.
until recently I didn't know 'dad rave' was a thing, felt old when the girl at the check-out struck up a conversation about music with me.
'Oh the prodigy? my dad loves them- my older sister loves to tease him about his dad rave records!'
middle age is terrible. In my head the best rave stuff still sounds fresh and futuristic, but I can't imagine how it sounds to today's young people.
That sounds mental to me, the prodigy been "Dad Rave" they were the only real band I can think of who universally appeal to basically everyone and had such and edge that I don't hear in any new bands.
Pity the Sadness and As I Die are the only two good songs on Shades Of God.
I remember as a young lad, being really into Gothic and Icon but when a friend gave me a lend of Shades Of God I just couldn't get into it at all. It had a kind of meandering, almost bluesy groove to it that just seemed to be at odds with the metallic goth of the other albums.
Last week, after watching an interview from that era on YouTube, I put it on with the hope of it finally clicking but no. A transitional album that would have been better off as an EP.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on July 18, 2020, 10:37:04 PM
Pity the Sadness and As I Die are the only two good songs on Shades Of God.
I remember as a young lad, being really into Gothic and Icon but when a friend gave me a lend of Shades Of God I just couldn't get into it at all. It had a kind of meandering, almost bluesy groove to it that just seemed to be at odds with the metallic goth of the other albums.
Last week, after watching an interview from that era on YouTube, I put it on with the hope of it finally clicking but no. A transitional album that would have been better off as an EP.
I love shades of god, well not love, but I haven't got rid of it yet. It's a cool fresh sounding album, much fresher than the stuff they release nowadays. I will agree that those 2 songs stand out as singles so they sort of underwhelm the rest of the album by contrast.
I could never warm to it, and couldn't name a track or recall a lyric, riff or melody from it apart from the singles. Terrible production too, so muddy and murky. The low point of their first 5 albums for me.
I think Shades of God is great and a bit better than Gothic and Icon. Well I haven't listened to Gothic in so long I can't remember most of it but when I did, I preferred Shades of God.
Gothic is lethal
Pity the Sadness was my intro to PL, but Shades of God never hooked me. Bought Gothic after that and that blew my socks off (still does to this day, incredible record).
My initial thoughts were that apart from the 2 tracks mentioned above, there wasn't a whole lot more to the album. It was only revisiting it years later that I came to appreciate it more. Still not a fan of the production on it, I think it was only on Icon where they really kicked on in that regard.
Quote from: Emphyrio on July 19, 2020, 11:35:42 AM
My initial thoughts were that apart from the 2 tracks mentioned above, there wasn't a whole lot more to the album. It was only revisiting it years later that I came to appreciate it more. Still not a fan of the production on it, I think it was only on Icon where they really kicked on in that regard.
The remastered version somewhat addresses the production but I admit it is a bit murky. I used to think the drumming was laughable as well but I've grown to like it over the years for it's innocence. Icon has much better production but Shades of God has the better tunes. Apart from Widow.
Shades is the business.
Immolation on paper have it all: intricate riffing without wankery, unique sound based in dissonant tonality, which they developed way before "dissonance" became the hot shit within extreme metal, excellent drumming, well-structured guitar solos, innovative songwriting. They are the embodiment of perfection. Yet, it all adds up to incredible boredom. They peaked with the debut album. I just can't detect any emotion in their music after that.
First 5 are of equal standing for me and all slightly different from each other albeit that the biggest jump was obviously between DOP and HIA. Have you seen em live? It's pure emotion. I know that can be said about most band but there's something different with Immo, I think.
Immolation are one of those bands for me that just add up perfectly. Could listen to most of their discography on repeat all day.
Ya, me too.
Inspired by what I've seen in another thread, I really cannot stand listening to too much motorhead. I haven't been able to make it through a whole MH album in years.
I've never even heard a Motorhead album. Must pick up 'Ace of Spades' at some stage.
Go straight to Overkill instead.
I think the earlier stuff is supposed to be a bit more varied, no?
Or the live record No Sleep til Hammersmith, though it may ruin the studio versions for you!
Not really arsed with the pedal to the metal stuff. I've heard enough of that side of their sound and it's too samey for me, that's why I was thinking that their earlier gear might have a bit more variety/nuance.
Overkill is their second (released, their first recorded album was shelved for years)) album and there's plenty of variety on it IMO. Ace Of Spades is their fourth, so there's not much in it, but Overkill is their best I reckon.
Isn't a lot of the reverence for Lemmy also based in the fact that he always came across as an absolutely sound bastard?
Pretty much, and he helped out loads of bands as they were coming up etc. Every scene has its grandfather figures.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 20, 2020, 10:30:40 PM
Not really arsed with the pedal to the metal stuff. I've heard enough of that side of their sound and it's too samey for me, that's why I was thinking that their earlier gear might have a bit more variety/nuance.
Ah, fair. Another Perfect Day might be worth checking out, it was a fairly divisive album when it was released but it's probably their most varied album, has Brian Robertson from Lizzy on guitar too.
Motörhead were awesome. Lemmy was put on a pedestal in recent years (mostly by peers) but the mainstream never really paid attention. They were in The Young Ones, and on TV sometimes ('Never Mind the Buzzcocks' anyone remember that?), Lemmy was even on RTE once (at a festival, and not impressed by the guest 'fan' interviewer, I remember he said something like "are you the most interesting man in Ireland?"😂) but that's about it.
Favourite albums; 'Bomber', 'Orgasmatron', '1916', 'Ace of Spades'
Quote from: leatherface on July 20, 2020, 11:43:36 PM
Motörhead were awesome. Lemmy was put on a pedestal in recent years (mostly by peers) but the mainstream never really paid attention. They were in The Young Ones, and on TV sometimes ('Never Mind the Buzzcocks' anyone remember that?), Lemmy was even on RTE once (at a festival, and not impressed by the guest 'fan' interviewer, I remember he said something like "are you the most interesting man in Ireland?"😂) but that's about it.
Favourite albums; 'Bomber', 'Orgasmatron', '1916', 'Ace of Spades'
It used wreck Lemmys head that the newer albums never got the recognition they deserved and he had a point - we are motorhead, bastards and inferno all had some unreal songs - not classic albums but still very, very good
Bastards is pretty good to be fair. The brother insisted I listen to it a few years ago and he isn't any great Motorhead fan
Yeah Bastards is great but I don't really go for much Motorhead otherwise, I mean they're grand and all, wouldn't give out if someone had it on at all but I wouldn't be actively putting them on meself. Except Bastards, I right enjoy that, great album, bar the complete bag of shit that is "Don't Let Daddy Kiss Me".
Quote from: ochoill on July 21, 2020, 05:05:11 PM
Yeah Bastards is great but I don't really go for much Motorhead otherwise, I mean they're grand and all, wouldn't give out if someone had it on at all but I wouldn't be actively putting them on meself. Except Bastards, I right enjoy that, great album, bar the complete bag of shit that is "Don't Let Daddy Kiss Me".
Lemmy said that was one of his favourite songs that he ever wrote. Tbh that and lost in the ozone sound like the same song. It's a good song to these ears though.
I watched that wrestler Triple H give a eulogy at Lemmy's wedding and he managed to come off as a normal human being paying tribute to an extraordinary one. I've never really cared for the music, but yeah, seems to have been one in a million by all accounts.
Ah yeah lemmy is a fuckin legend.
For reasons too numerous to mention Seventh Son is my favourite Maiden album by quite some distance but I absolutely cringe when track 3 plays and always skip it. I honestly cannot see what the fuss is about and whenever they'd give a nod to their magnum opus on tour this is the single they'd almost inevitably opt to play ahead of undeniable classics like Moonchild or Infinite Dreams. They should have held it over for NPFTD two years later. It wouldn't have looked nearly as out of place there.
Can I Play with Madness?! That's one of the songs that got me into music, nevermind metal or Maiden.
Can I Play With Madness is top tier Maiden for me and I'd go one further and say Infinite Dreams is the stinker on that album. Maybe if it was sequenced later in the album it wouldn't be as bad but it feels like a total non event after Moonchild.
It's definitely the worst song on the album (I'd argue that it's their second worst '80s song after Quest For Fire) and yes, it's completely out of place there, but I can't imagine the album without it, it'd be an overly po-faced affair with another 'serious' song in its place.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 20, 2020, 10:22:12 PM
I've never even heard a Motorhead album. Must pick up 'Ace of Spades' at some stage.
In that case I'd recommend starting with the "No Sleep 'til Hammersmith" live album from 1981...I think it's a near-perfect 'best of' covering their early years, and probably has the best versions ever recorded of any of those songs on it...just my two cents...
I'm really going to take a hurley to a hornets nest here but fuckit here goes- seeing as the topic is Iron Maiden and all- people (who are in the minority I will concede) have a right to take umbrage at the flag waving during the trooper in this country. I'll no doubt get ridiculed for saying it but any one who has given even a cursory glance at Irish history should be understand why people would take offence to it. Would it be OK for Ted Nugent to play in Brooklyn and start waving the confederate flag there? And before anyone says that the song has nothing to do with Ireland nor is it intended to antagonise I am aware of that-but that's not the point.
Tying controversial in with conspiracy, I personally don't see any genuine difference between the Union Jack and the Swastika flag; both represent genocide, the only difference is that one "reich" did it in a way that kept them in the good books with the rest of "respectable" society (i.e. *cough-cough* all other colonial nations) . That said, I don't know whether that tips me towards "you should be able to wave a Swastika wherever you want" or "the Union Jack should be banned from public events in Ireland." In other words, I care but I don't care, but if someone who thinks the Swastika is bad doesn't understand why the Union Jack is just as bad, they just ain't woke bro!
This could get interesting...
As far as I'm concerned, whatever they think about waving that shit around in some places they should know a lot better than to do it here. It's only asking for trouble(s)
Napalm Death's later stuff is better than Scum/FETO, I get that at the time nothing like that had been done but it's pretty unlistenable imo. I'd rate Enemy of the Music Business and Apex Predator as among their best.
The Union Jack waving at an Iron Maiden show is a piece of theatre and should be treated as such. Should we ban The Trooper beer here too and confiscate everyone's The Trooper singles and t-shirts? FWIW, I agree entirely with it and the Swastika being kindred emblons of genocide but British history and self-image is a shitshow of hipocrisy and a topic for another thread. I went to a one-man play about Hitler, years ago, and the set was essentially a giant Swastika flag. Both unsettle me but, in the context of theatre, I can get over it.
Come on stage wearing Union Jack shorts and waving your poxy flag bad-mouting Michael Collins, however, and we will fall out.
Quote from: Juggz on July 24, 2020, 04:05:09 PM
The Union Jack waving at an Iron Maiden show is a piece of theatre and should be treated as such. Should we ban The Trooper beer here too and confiscate everyone's The Trooper singles and t-shirts?
Not really the same thing there though. But I take your point about it being pageantry - it's what it represented /still represents in this country that's the problem.
Yeah, I agree but it's part of the show. They do it in Germany, in India and all the other places where atrocities were carried out under that flag. I don't see why they should be selective where they do it, though. Everybody knows it is a part of the show, it is part of the fabric of Iron Maiden. My take on it would be that if I have an issue with it, I wouldn't go and if I had a really big issue with it, I wouldn't buy any of their fucking records either.
To turn it on its head a little, if you were Israeli and Kreator waved a Swastika as part of the show everywhere but Jerulsalem, would that still be alright?
Quote from: Juggz on July 24, 2020, 06:53:35 PM
Yeah, I agree but it's part of the show. They do it in Germany, in India and all the other places where atrocities were carried out under that flag. I don't see why they should be selective where they do it, though. Everybody knows it is a part of the show, it is part of the fabric of Iron Maiden. My take on it would be that if I have an issue with it, I wouldn't go and if I had a really big issue with it, I wouldn't buy any of their fucking records either.
To turn it on its head a little, if you were Israeli and Kreator waved a Swastika as part of the show everywhere but Jerulsalem, would that still be alright?
Hmmm good point there I suppose with regards to being selective - however they have carried out atrocities in our country much more recently than in say Germany for example. Germany is also a bit different because the playing field was a bit more level.
Well seeing as brandishing the swastika is illegal in most countries whereas waving the union flag isn't its a bit different - once again I see the point though.
Quote from: ldj on July 24, 2020, 03:48:51 PM
Napalm Death's later stuff is better than Scum/FETO, I get that at the time nothing like that had been done but it's pretty unlistenable imo. I'd rate Enemy of the Music Business and Apex Predator as among their best.
Scum/FETO were top class noise at the time, but certainly ND had better records down the line. Inside The Torn Apart being one of them.
Barney's the only decent vocalist they had, as a consequence I can barely stomach the early stuff. Dorrian's barking was, well, dogshit.
Iron maiden waving the butchers apron at gigs is classic brit ignorance of their own bloody history.
It's like if bono wore an IRA 'sniper at work' t shirt at a Birmingham gig.
I'm actually pleasantly surprised at the responses here - I said something to the same effect about waving the flag on the old forum and people were up in arms that I thought it was wrong.
The passive attitude people have to the brits history in this country is quite ridiculous. Other countries must look at us as a bunch of subservient morons at times.
What other country celebrates their occupiers?
How is Ireland celebrating our historic occupancy? I think there might be a difference between a country who has managed to get itself out from under the yoke of its former oppressor and get up on its own two feet (with all of the inevitable problems and corruption that goes along with that) and thus be able to shrug off something as un-oppressive as a piece of minor theatre and a country so caught up in its own sense of victimhood so as not to be able to bear such a very minor bit of flag waving. I mean, would it be better if every Maiden gig ended up like the Love Ulster march? I think it's a far healthier response to take it for what it is, and not read too much into it. The song rules. A Maiden gig without it would be lacking and the flag gets waved in every single country they play in so to DECIDE to take offence to it is kind of self defeating. Surely it's possible to be proud of your country and critical of how or history played out with the Brits without waging war at the drop of a hat?
Theres no decision to be offended, it's just offensive. As someone who has studied Irish history extensively North and South, partitioning the country has caused the lives of thousands of people.
I agree with the comparison to the Confederate earlier. There is no diluting what it represents.
Apologies for dragging the thread into a political rant.
Sure look it.
Quote from: Blackout on July 25, 2020, 07:04:13 PM
The passive attitude people have to the brits history in this country is quite ridiculous. Other countries must look at us as a bunch of subservient morons at times.
What other country celebrates their occupiers?
Because it's just that - history. I'm (thankfully) too far removed from all of that shit to care.
What's the point in continually being offended? I'm not saying don't pretend it didn't happen, but treat it like what it is, a piece of history. No one living in England today are responsible for occupying Ireland. At what point do we collectively say "it's in the past" and move on with our lives and co-existence? If you're that mortally offended by a piece of theatre then you should probably get all your albums, books, art, whatever, by "Brit" artists and have a wee bonfire for yourself.
And yes, I'm very much in the "people who are offended by The Trooper flag waving are dopes" camp.
When it comes to dopes, that would better apply to the British public at large with respect to the true nature of their history, by decision of the powers that be, a decision which is still in effect in classrooms today. It is a piece of theatre, but what's shocking is that it wouldn't even occur to most British people (again, because of intentional educational choices of the governing) that it could possibly be seen as offensive to some, like, you'd have to sit them down and explain it to them with factual evidence. You wouldn't have to do that with a German. I'm not really offended by anything, but I do see it as one of so many signs of literally wanton ignorance.
Wanton ignorance? I hear you're a racist now, Father.
:laugh:
Quote from: ldj on July 24, 2020, 03:48:51 PM
Napalm Death's later stuff is better than Scum/FETO, I get that at the time nothing like that had been done but it's pretty unlistenable imo. I'd rate Enemy of the Music Business and Apex Predator as among their best.
Napalm Death haven't made a decent album since 'Fear, Emptiness, Despair'. The few experimental albums they released after it weren't great but at least they tried a different approach. They've played it safe since 'Enemy of the Music Business', apart from the time they had John Zorn squawking on a song back in 2012.
Quote from: Blackout on July 25, 2020, 05:28:18 PM
It's like if bono wore an IRA 'sniper at work' t shirt at a Birmingham gig.
Bono wearing a 'sniper at work' t shirt would actually be like Bruce wearing a 'up the black and tans' shirt.
Although technically more blatantly "offensive", that would at least indicate some awareness of relevant historical facts :laugh:
Killswitch Engage. I hate this fucking band and I think their version of 'Holy Diver' was a shit cover. Controversial? I don't know, but true.
What I find can shut the Brits up if the start going on about "foreigners" is mentioning their empire and how they went around invading other people's countries and saying that as they went into other people's countries they can't expect people not to want to have access to theirs. If they have a couple of brain cells to rub together then they usually shut up.
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
What I find can shut the Brits up if the start going on about "foreigners" is mentioning their empire and how they went around invading other people's countries and saying that as they went into other people's countries they can't expect people not to want to have access to theirs. If they have a couple of brain cells to rub together then they usually shut up.
I thought their demo was excellent.
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
Killswitch Engage. I hate this fucking band and I think their version of 'Holy Diver' was a shit cover. Controversial? I don't know, but true.
Horses for courses, like.
But - the Howard Jones era of the band (where the Holy Diver cover comes from) is by far their low point. End Of Heartache was a pretty nondescript/beige effort.
Their previous/current singer Jesse Leach was way better for the band. Their first two records are IMO lethal stuff, if you're into glossy commercial melodic death/hardcore.
Like you say, horses for courses, I wouldn't be the intended audience :laugh:
Concur about Killswitch in that Alive or Just breathing is a fantastic album and Jesse is the only good vocalist for the band. I was lucky to see them live in Belfast way back in the day.
I saw them with the other fucker and he was stone useless
Primordial never did anything for me. I know they are Ireland's Metal darlings, but I never took to them. I found them boring for them most part.
What's controversial about that?
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
Primordial never did anything for me. I know they are Ireland's Metal darlings, but I never took to them. I found them boring for them most part.
Them and waylander. No idea why these bands are as popular as they are. Then again I can't talk with some of my music tastes :laugh:
Not a lot, but I think this was the closest thread for it.
Quote from: Blackout on July 30, 2020, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
Primordial never did anything for me. I know they are Ireland's Metal darlings, but I never took to them. I found them boring for them most part.
Them and waylander. No idea why these bands are as popular as they are. Then again I can't talk with some of my music tastes :laugh:
I like Waylanders version of King Of The Faries.
Quote from: Blackout on July 30, 2020, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
Primordial never did anything for me. I know they are Ireland's Metal darlings, but I never took to them. I found them boring for them most part.
Them and waylander. No idea why these bands are as popular as they are. Then again I can't talk with some of my music tastes :laugh:
I think Primordial would be a lot better if they could write actual songs. The middle four minutes of The Coffin Ships gives me a lump in me throat, but the few minutes either side of that sounds like a meandering and pointless diddly-aye exercise for guitar.
Maiden (rightly) get a lot of flack for superfluous intros, but at least they have the excuse of being auld lads and it gives them breathing room when playing live.
Quote from: Ducky on July 31, 2020, 01:13:41 PM
Quote from: Blackout on July 30, 2020, 09:20:29 PM
Quote from: livingabortion on July 30, 2020, 09:17:42 PM
Primordial never did anything for me. I know they are Ireland's Metal darlings, but I never took to them. I found them boring for them most part.
Them and waylander. No idea why these bands are as popular as they are. Then again I can't talk with some of my music tastes :laugh:
I think Primordial would be a lot better if they could write actual songs. The middle four minutes of The Coffin Ships gives me a lump in me throat, but the few minutes either side of that sounds like a meandering and pointless diddly-aye exercise for guitar.
Maiden (rightly) get a lot of flack for superfluous intros, but at least they have the excuse of being auld lads and it gives them breathing room when playing live.
I've only ever dabbled in Primordial over the years and recently I made another stab at getting into them. The meandering song arrangements are definitely a struggle. I think the point for them as songwriters is to capture a "vibe" in its truest form though and not kill the songs with over refining and over analysing. That's what makes them the band that they are but also what puts so many people off. If they got some hot shot producer in there with the intent of shaving the songs down into succinct metal anthems they might reach a new audience but they wouldn't be Primordial anymore.
No, they'd be.... PrimeCordial... :abbath:
Piece by piece is the best track on Reign in Blood.
Quote from: Blackout on August 13, 2020, 11:12:22 PM
Piece by piece is the best track on Reign in Blood.
The only one from the album they didn't play live until they started doing the whole album as as encore years after
Piece by Piece is savage. There are no bad songs on that album but it is among the best.
I actually just rooted out Reign in Blood. Haven't listened to Slayar in years.
Quote from: Bogmetaller on August 15, 2020, 06:14:30 PM
Quote from: Blackout on August 13, 2020, 11:12:22 PM
Piece by piece is the best track on Reign in Blood.
The only one from the album they didn't play live until they started doing the whole album as as encore years after
Reason being is no one plays the drums on it like lombardo. I've seen a good few vids of people attempting to cover it but they never nail the speed of the fills as much as Super Dave. I wanted to play the drums so badly because of that album. Stupid poverty :laugh:
Resurrecting this to point out that Messiah Marcolin sounds like Joe Dolan.
Not a bad thing of course.
:laugh: I can hear what you mean.
I don't know how I've never noticed it before. Big fan of both so obviously not a problem as I say, but I can't unhear it now.
Haha yeah, that's going to forever be in my head now. Thanks, fucker!
Bar a handful of songs,and while I understand their importance, I really dont think Entombed are much use.
LHP is great. Don't care about the rest.
I was blown away by LHP when it came out but over the years its definitely lost its appeal. The first Grave-which I thought was an Entombed clone at the time-I've grown to much prefer. I do quite like the Nihilist demos though,so go figure.
Left Hand Path is the best DM album to come out of Sweden for me. In keeping with the thread title however:
1. I don't rate Clandestine at all. Shit vocals, inferior/dry production and the songs aren't as good, bar one or two.
2. Wolverine Blues is far superior to Clandestine, different sound for sure but they did it so well. 5/5 album for me.
Side one of LHP is their best stuff. Side 2 is pretty dull. The "Crawl" 12" might be my favourite of theirs. Agreed on Clandestine, the production/vocals are absolute garbage. Lots of good ideas in the songwriting on paper but the actual end result just doesn't work. Why they didn't stick with the Nirvana 2002 guy is beyond me. Again,loved it when it came out but ..well,I was a lot easier to impress in 1991.
I fucking despise WB.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on October 29, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
Side one of LHP is their best stuff. Side 2 is pretty dull. The "Crawl" 12" might be my favourite of theirs. Agreed on Clandestine, the production/vocals are absolute garbage. Lots of good ideas in the songwriting on paper but the actual end result just doesn't work. Why they didn't stick with the Nirvana 2002 guy is beyond me. Again,loved it when it came out but ..well,I was a lot easier to impress in 1991.
I fucking despise WB.
Think the Nirvana 2002 guy was only 17 when in Entombed for a short time and it wasn't really easy for him to tour.
Quote from: warhead on October 29, 2021, 08:54:00 PM
Quote from: Pentagrimes on October 29, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
Side one of LHP is their best stuff. Side 2 is pretty dull. The "Crawl" 12" might be my favourite of theirs. Agreed on Clandestine, the production/vocals are absolute garbage. Lots of good ideas in the songwriting on paper but the actual end result just doesn't work. Why they didn't stick with the Nirvana 2002 guy is beyond me. Again,loved it when it came out but ..well,I was a lot easier to impress in 1991.
I fucking despise WB.
Think the Nirvana 2002 guy was only 17 when in Entombed for a short time and it wasn't really easy for him to tour.
Aaah right. Can't imagine they were that much older though?
Quote from: Pentagrimes on October 29, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
Side one of LHP is their best stuff. Side 2 is pretty dull. The "Crawl" 12" might be my favourite of theirs. Agreed on Clandestine, the production/vocals are absolute garbage. Lots of good ideas in the songwriting on paper but the actual end result just doesn't work. Why they didn't stick with the Nirvana 2002 guy is beyond me. Again,loved it when it came out but ..well,I was a lot easier to impress in 1991.
I fucking despise WB.
Great to have you back man! :laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 29, 2021, 10:18:43 PM
Quote from: Pentagrimes on October 29, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
Side one of LHP is their best stuff. Side 2 is pretty dull. The "Crawl" 12" might be my favourite of theirs. Agreed on Clandestine, the production/vocals are absolute garbage. Lots of good ideas in the songwriting on paper but the actual end result just doesn't work. Why they didn't stick with the Nirvana 2002 guy is beyond me. Again,loved it when it came out but ..well,I was a lot easier to impress in 1991.
I fucking despise WB.
Great to have you back man! :laugh: :abbath:
Next week: "people who like Motley Crue and Dokken should be killed"
Motley Crue are class.
I think I've heard one good MC song- Dr. Feelgood. The rest I've heard has been pure middle of the road piss. I'll stick with GNR!
Off topic.
Wolverine Blues and Clandestine are both dreadful albums, and I don't think LHP is that great either bar a few good choons.
Never Say Die is a very good Sabbath album, despite what my auld lad or some of yizzer here are bound to say.
Osbourne hated it in retrospect too, and they were all fucked up with all the drinking and shoving whatever they could find up the hooter, but I don't get the animosity to it. Maybe because it doesn't sound like Volume 4 or those shitty Bill Ward vocals on one of the tracks. One glaring negative is that desperate opener with the saxophone (fuck sake) but other than that, solid, solid album.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 30, 2021, 06:07:54 AM
Wolverine Blues and Clandestine are both dreadful albums, and I don't think LHP is that great either bar a few good choons.
Never Say Die is a very good Sabbath album, despite what my auld lad or some of yizzer here are bound to say.
Osbourne hated it in retrospect too, and they were all fucked up with all the drinking and shoving whatever they could find up the hooter, but I don't get the animosity to it. Maybe because it doesn't sound like Volume 4 or those shitty Bill Ward vocals on one of the tracks. One glaring negative is that desperate opener with the saxophone (fuck sake) but other than that, solid, solid album.
Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy were the first two Sabbath albums I bought when I was a young lad and I played them constantly. I'll always have a soft spot for those two
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 30, 2021, 06:07:54 AM
Wolverine Blues and Clandestine are both dreadful albums, and I don't think LHP is that great either bar a few good choons.
Never Say Die is a very good Sabbath album, despite what my auld lad or some of yizzer here are bound to say.
Osbourne hated it in retrospect too, and they were all fucked up with all the drinking and shoving whatever they could find up the hooter, but I don't get the animosity to it. Maybe because it doesn't sound like Volume 4 or those shitty Bill Ward vocals on one of the tracks. One glaring negative is that desperate opener with the saxophone (fuck sake) but other than that, solid, solid album.
wolverine blues is solid! As are the first two albums. Get your coat Kev ha ha ha
That fuckin' 'groove' though. It's probably better than Clandestine but I like my death metal to be death metal, not whatever the feic Wolverine Blues is supposed to be.
Title track on NSD is great, the rest is shite. Poor album to go out on.
And Dirty Women is the only good track on Technical Ecstasy. Shit albums.
Shades of God is a shite album bar two good songs. Its shitness is only further compounded by the excellent albums that PL did before and after it.
I prefer Clandestine to LHP,of the death n roll Entombed stuff ,To Ride is my favourite,love it!
Dr Feelgood is superior to all post-Clandestine Entombed stuff,
Quote from: Anton Arcane on October 30, 2021, 05:09:21 PM
Shades of God is a shite album bar two good songs. Its shitness is only further compounded by the excellent albums that PL did before and after it.
Shades is the business. Much better than Icon!
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on October 30, 2021, 09:26:40 PM
Dr Feelgood is superior to all post-Clandestine Entombed stuff,
Haha, this is a great controversial metal opinion! Don't even necessarily disagree :laugh: :abbath:
I despise King Diamond.
I'd rather stick a hot poker up me hole,sideways, than listen to that screeching noise that is supposed to be vocals. Unbearable.
I tried hard to get into King Diamond/Mercyful Fate a few times over the years,never really did anything for me.
Lads, bend over. I'll get the hot poker.
How do you think he got the voice?
Took years for me to 'get' them TBH, there was a song on 9 that clicked and led me back to the classics. King Diamond solo I can generally take or leave, but Abigail and Fatal Portrait are mighty.
Conspiracy is savage.
Conspiracy is maybe the best starting point for getting into KD alright.
I don't really like "traditional" heavy metal (which is of itself a kind of controversial opinion I imagine) as I kinda made the leap from Bon Jovi to Metallica and Slayer pretty quickly as a child, but Mercyful Fate/King Diamond is the notable exception. Down in no small part I'd imagine to King D's whole schtick
Quote from: Carnage on November 01, 2021, 11:47:21 PM
How do you think he got the voice?
Took years for me to 'get' them TBH, there was a song on 9 that clicked and led me back to the classics. King Diamond solo I can generally take or leave, but Abigail and Fatal Portrait are mighty.
Was thay song on one of those Terrorizer comp cds?,that was a class tune to be fair!.
I had Conspiracy on tape as a young fella,went exploring a bit further as i got a bit older, but they never clicked.
Meshuggah are over rated. Discuss :abbath:
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on November 01, 2021, 10:23:24 PM
I despise King Diamond.
I'd rather stick a hot poker up me hole,sideways, than listen to that screeching noise that is supposed to be vocals. Unbearable.
Agreed!!! :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
Quote from: Paul keohane on November 02, 2021, 09:37:13 AMWas thay song on one of those Terrorizer comp cds?,that was a class tune to be fair!
It was indeed, Buried Alive was the song in question.
Some good stuff on that disc:
https://www.discogs.com/release/5258737-Various-Terrorized-Vol-3
Quote from: Carnage on November 02, 2021, 11:11:11 AM
Quote from: Paul keohane on November 02, 2021, 09:37:13 AMWas thay song on one of those Terrorizer comp cds?,that was a class tune to be fair!
It was indeed, Buried Alive was the song in question.
Some good stuff on that disc:
https://www.discogs.com/release/5258737-Various-Terrorized-Vol-3
Ha fuck some blast from the past that!,
I don't like the entire album, but like Cold Lake quite a lot.
Quote from: Paul keohane on November 01, 2021, 10:41:16 PM
I tried hard to get into King Diamond/Mercyful Fate a few times over the years,never really did anything for me.
I'm only really familiar with Melissa, the guitars in that are savage. Those alone keep me returning to the album.
Quote from: Necro Red on November 02, 2021, 10:07:53 AM
Meshuggah are over rated. Discuss :abbath:
No :abbath:
I don't think they are over rated, but I do think that maybe they are more popular than they should be? Does that even make sense? Well there you go.
I'd go along with that, they've stalled a bit in terms of progression, Obzen is the last one that stood out for me.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on November 01, 2021, 10:53:44 PM
Lads, bend over. I'll get the hot poker.
Sounds like there's too many holes for one hot poker administrator. I'll volunteer my services and fire poker.
Quote from: Necro Red on November 02, 2021, 10:07:53 AM
Meshuggah are over rated. Discuss :abbath:
They're a band that I can appreciate more than I actually enjoy listening to. I think they deserve their success. Even if they did inadvertently create one of the absolute worst metal sub genres.
I couldn't listen to Meshuggah for more than 10 minutes, but I saw them live once and it was devastatingly good. But the next day, once again, couldn't listen to them for more than about 10 minutes. Find the vocals fierce monotonous too, doesn't help.
I've the same problem with Meshuggah that I do with Tool. I can happily listen to any individual song and enjoy it, but making it through a full album is a bit of a chore. Like BSC said the lack of variety in the vocals starts to grate after a while
Apart from the I ep, that's utterly brilliant
Tool I could happily listen to for hours though, and often have! Some of the best smoking music going, hands down.
Funny you should mention Tool and Meshuggah. I find tracks in both Bands' albums flow so well together when listening to them as a whole. Catch 33 is a good example - particularly Minds Mirrors to the end of In Death - Is Death which contains some of the greatest riffs, drumming etc I've ever heard on any album of any Metal genre.
Heretic is my favourite Morbid Angel album.
Heretic is a pretty cool album, don't think it was a career highlight for them though. I quite like Steve Tucker as a vocalist and his bass is pretty cool too.
Heretic has a couple of good tunes but very much an album no body cares about much.I liked Tucker as a front man,was absolutely devastating at that gig in Temple bar music centre,still one of my favourite gigs.
Yeah, that was a great gig in TBMC. But thankfully I got to see them a few years later with Dave Vincent in London, and it was a much better show all round.
Some may say Empire Of The Clouds, others may nominate much of the mid to late 90s era output, but the truth is that there is no other Maiden song as totally shite as The Assassin.
In terms of controversial Morbid Angel opinions, I could never really get into Altars and Blessed. I got into them when Covenant came out and that has always remained my favourite MA album by a country mile.
To be fair Covenant is on a whole other level to the rest of Morbid Angels output. Yeah Altars and Blessed have some unreal songs but Covenant is just so fuckin good from start to finish. I always felt that the Tucker albums could've been so much better but suffered from a pretty poor production. The music just feels sterile to these ears.
I like BATS a lot but it really hasn't aged well production wise. The drums are awful and artificial sounding.
Part of its charm though, but maybe nostalgia's kicking there. It's their benchmark for me, top 5 DM album for sure. A big criticism of that album is that side 2 is mostly rerecorded demo tracks, but what band hasn't done that when they've gotten a proper album in the works?
I can't abide the Tucker albums, I don't see the appeal at all.
I'm not as big a stickler of production as some and in fact the production on Heretic adds to the brutality of it.
Maybe this should be renamed the 'differing opinions' thread. :laugh:
I think Heretic is a decent album to be fair. I remember buying it when it was released many a moon ago.
Heretic is the first MA album I heard in its entirety as soon as it was released. Gateways and Formulas had pretty much passed me by, but I knew the first four well, Covenant and Domination inside out. Anyway, hated Heretic when we listened to it with a couple of mates that day and anytime I've gone back to double check, never gotten more than a couple of tracks in.
I've listened to Heretic once it was out and never went back to it...just never had the urge, but I detest Formulas with a passion. I have tried year after year to give it a go again and see if I'd develop a taste for it or even check if I wasn't missing something but I just can't stand the album... I don't mind Domination but after that MA just isn't for me.
I never listened to Heretic or Carcass's Swansong.
Formulas was given to me by somebody who hated it and I rarely listen to it. All those stupid drum things.
Domination is only alright and Covenant is the best.
Formulas an absolute beast of an album!, adore it.
Its between Covenant and BATS for me,both unbelievable albums.
All that chanting and drum bongo bango stuff kills it though.
It's not very controversial though, just an opinion.
Everything up to and including Formulas is savage. No need for anything afterwards. Watched a live set from Roskilde on YouTube last week from the Heretic tour in 04, which was enjoyable. Saw them on that tour as well but no interest in the album.
I like Gateways a lot too,but everything before it is top drawer.
'Heretic' isn't as terrible an album as most would have you believe, picked it up on CD second hand for 6€ recently. Production is weird but so is BATS and I don't complain about that album at all. BATS is less experimental and strange I suppose. FFF is my favourite nowadays though, was overlooked by many for years but beginning to pick up more fans as the years go by.
Formulas was the first MA I heard and will always be a top runner for me. The rankings tend to change from time to time. Been blasting Domination more than ever of late as well.
Ilud isn't anywhere near as bad as its reputation, I'd take it over Heretic or Kingdoms Disdained
And there it is, I was waiting for someone to go all in and play the Ilud card
Yeah I was waiting for that too. I actually put it on last night because of this thread. I didn't hate it at the time but musically I was in a strange place back then. Couldn't listen to it now though.
There are 5 decent songs on Illud, I have them set up as an EP. The rest are beyond terrible though.
fdfnjkkhffgbMerbidbhbnnnnnbHAngilvghnnnn
Blessed Are The Sick for me. First album I got of there's when it was out. Remember picking it up on tape from Our Price on Henry st, went home and listened to it four or five times in a row. One of those albums that connected instantly with me. Just thought it was amazing !
Kingdoms Disdained is Morbid's best album since Formulas and beats Domination. There, I said it!
Immolation are better than Morbid Angel. "Dawn" flattens "Altars" for me.
In fairness I don't think that's an enormously controversial opinion
'The Bleeding' flattens them all!
Is that controversial enough for you? 8)
That's just plain outrageous
Re: Domination- went through a period about 18 months ago of listening to it obsessively and lived it. Put it on the other day for the first time since then and found it weirdly unexciting. Side 2 especially. I find Vincent really fucking irritating on this album particularly. Definitely the point where he started to become the insufferable cunt he is today. The Gene Simmons of death metal.
I think you'll find it's perfectly rageous 8)
'Close to a world below' is the best of Immolation's output. A total beast.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on November 05, 2021, 09:33:29 AM
'The Bleeding' flattens them all!
Is that controversial enough for you? 8)
Not sure if you're being serious but I actually agree with that statement.
It's the one I listened to most growing up, followed by 'Covenant' which is my favourite MA album. Immolation are cool but I never listened to them in my formative years.
I think I remember reading a post on MI about Chuck Schuldiner sneering at some lad on here for wearing an Immolation shirt when he was in Dublin? Or was it a Suffocation shirt? Is that controversial?
They sound so good here. Heretic type sound sounds so dirty live.
Stricken arise ftw :abbath:
https://youtu.be/Lk_HLpznSVU
From Gateways through to Kingdoms Disdained,they've made a bollix of the production.Even on Gateways an album i really like,the fuckin drum sound.I listened to Heretic a while ago,some very good songs on it to be fair!
Quote from: Giggles on November 05, 2021, 10:44:53 PM
I think I remember reading a post on MI about Chuck Schuldiner sneering at some lad on here for wearing an Immolation shirt when he was in Dublin? Or was it a Suffocation shirt? Is that controversial?
Suffocation are largely terrible so I hope it was them.
Gateways drum sounds renders the whole thing unlistenable for me.
I like Suffocation up to the self titled then lost interest.
Suffocation are one of those bands if a random song crops up on a playlist I always like it alot but find it hard to keep interest through a whole album. I have no problem with relentless blasting with other bands
Yeah im a big fan up to 'Suffocation',not overly pushed after that.
Going back a few posts to Morbid Angel. Controversial I know but they're one death metal band I could never get into. Of all American death metal bands it's incredible how overrated they are. I know it's very much a minority opinion but give me Death, Deicide, Obituary, Malevolent Creation or Massacre any day of the week.
I love all of those bands, with the exception of Massacre who I like, but I'd take MA over all of them without question.
The Deicide S/T is the greatest Death Metal album of all time bar none.
Quote from: Mithrandir on November 09, 2021, 09:20:24 AM
The Deicide S/T is the greatest Death Metal album of all time bar none.
The drumming is a bit shaky at times on it though. I do love the album, not sure if I'd call it the greatest now.
Quote from: Mithrandir on November 09, 2021, 09:20:24 AM
The Deicide S/T is the greatest Death Metal album of all time bar none.
Yeah agree
I wouldn't say it Deicide's best, let alone the greatest death metal album of all time (that's Leprosy). I'd rank it third, after Serpents Of The Light and Once Upon The Cross.
Quote from: Mithrandir on November 09, 2021, 09:20:24 AM
The Deicide S/T is the greatest Death Metal album of all time bar none.
It's a fantastic record. It's also - and this is the controversial opinion - the only one of theirs that's any good.
Legion > the self titled.
Re: Morbid Angel the only bad release is I which is a disgrace of an album. Only has one listenable song Nevermore. I always enjoyed Heretic as it happens bought it from Sentinel last week and it showed up today. Gateways, Formulas and the last album are also great. I was one of the people who didn't give the Tucker era a chance for years until Formulas finally sunk in.
For some reason I have never been a massive fan of Blessed just too many slow - mid paced tracks for my liking.
I'd have to say I prefer Legion and Once Upon The Cross. Cause Of Death trumps them all though.
I found Legion disappointing from the get-go. It's just dull.
Legion is a masterpiece.
Quote from: open face surgery on November 09, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Legion is a masterpiece.
Masterpiece is a bit strong but it's still a great album. I've a soft spot for OUTC though, it's the pick of them for me.
Serpents is their last good album I feel.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on November 09, 2021, 05:40:37 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on November 09, 2021, 02:01:46 PM
Legion is a masterpiece.
Masterpiece is a bit strong but it's still a great album. I've a soft spot for OUTC though, it's the pick of them for me.
It's a violent masterpiece. I love the s/t, Once Upon the Cross and Serpents but have been obsessed with Legion for the last while.
Quote from: Carnage on November 09, 2021, 11:12:54 AM
I wouldn't say it Deicide's best, let alone the greatest death metal album of all time (that's Leprosy). I'd rank it third, after Serpents Of The Light and Once Upon The Cross.
Leprosy Isn't even the best Death album
It's THE death metal album.
Bands that go overboard on intros annoy me. I find it takes away from the music even though I love a good intro. Mortician are terrible for over using them. I think Hacked Up For BBQ would be so much better without them.
Morticians intros are better than the music
How not to use a drum machine, those fuckers.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on November 10, 2021, 12:34:51 PM
How not to use a drum machine, those fuckers.
another valid arguement ha ha. I don't mind the band though. One of their albums has real drums on it
Quote from: Born of Fire on November 10, 2021, 12:24:08 PM
Morticians intros are better than the music
Controversial opinions expressed controversially; this is what I'm here for :laugh: :abbath:
I do like Mortician. I wouldn't mind a band using effects or whatever as long as it sounds good.
Heres a controversial one, I would consider Slipknots Iowa to be one of my favourite heavy metal albums ever. It's so wonderfully dark and brutal.
I wouldn't be a fan of that one but I enjoy the fourth album, Subliminal Verses I think it's called. Still has all of their tics and trademarks, but it has a nice, dark edge to it that the others (that I've heard, anyway) lack.
Remember when intros / instrumental tracks were all the rage during the 90s ? Was listening to Testimony Of The Ancients by Pestilence yesterday. I'm sure I loved them all at the time, but they went way overboard on that album !
I just skip them. Same with the Necroticism intros, I just cut them out with Soundforge.
Quote from: Carnage on November 10, 2021, 06:42:41 PM
I just skip them. Same with the Necroticism intros, I just cut them out with Soundforge.
I don't mind the Necoticism ones at all. I think they add to the atmosphere.
Quote from: Necro Red on November 10, 2021, 11:15:11 AM
Bands that go overboard on intros annoy me. I find it takes away from the music even though I love a good intro. Mortician are terrible for over using them. I think Hacked Up For BBQ would be so much better without them.
It's weird. I find that Mortician's use of film intros is so utterly retarded that it somehow becomes good in some kind of ironic way. Long time since I checked out a gig of theirs on YouTube, but I'm pretty sure they also use them live...on every song! ;D The 'Plan 9 From Outer Space' aura is also underpinned by the fucking massive guitarist playing a Strat which looks like a mandolin in comparison to his body size, and Will Rahmer, who's about five foot nothing, playing a huge bass and laying out the vocals which are so fucking deep, you can't actually even hear them on some gigs as they're too low for the PA!
So bad they're good!
Quote from: Mithrandir on November 09, 2021, 09:20:24 AM
The Deicide S/T is the greatest Death Metal album of all time bar none.
Next to impossible to separate debuts from Death, Deicide and Malevolent Creation when it comes to the greatest death metal album of all time. Many other albums worthy of the title I'm sure but these are what I keep returning to on what is now a three decade regular basis.
Quote from: Mr Barlow on November 10, 2021, 07:08:52 PM
Quote from: Carnage on November 10, 2021, 06:42:41 PM
I just skip them. Same with the Necroticism intros, I just cut them out with Soundforge.
I don't mind the Necoticism ones at all. I think they add to the atmosphere.
I find them very annoying, I think they ruin the flow of the album. Kept the first one as a separate track, it leads into the album nicely, but the rest went.
Quote from: Mr Barlow on November 10, 2021, 05:51:11 PM
Remember when intros / instrumental tracks were all the rage during the 90s ? Was listening to Testimony Of The Ancients by Pestilence yesterday. I'm sure I loved them all at the time, but they went way overboard on that album !
yea, I agree there. I got in to this other band called Ressurection awhile back. They have an album called Embalmed Existence and it has the most annoying intros. Although, there is a version on YouTube with none. Have the vinyl and it has the intros unfortunately
Another one I cut the intros out of. He sounds like Krang from the '90s Teenage Muntant Ninja Turtles cartoon.
Quote from: Necro Red on November 11, 2021, 11:16:08 AM
Quote from: Mr Barlow on November 10, 2021, 05:51:11 PM
Remember when intros / instrumental tracks were all the rage during the 90s ? Was listening to Testimony Of The Ancients by Pestilence yesterday. I'm sure I loved them all at the time, but they went way overboard on that album !
yea, I agree there. I got in to this other band called Ressurection awhile back. They have an album called Embalmed Existence and it has the most annoying intros. Although, there is a version on YouTube with none. Have the vinyl and it has the intros unfortunately
The Ressurection has to be the worst ever
98 Live Meltdown > Unleashed In The East
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on November 12, 2021, 01:11:09 AM
98 Live Meltdown > Unleashed In The East
98 Live Meltdown is a great album, played the fuck out of it when it first came out.....Unleashed was always a bit overrated I think..
Priest...Live! obliterates it too. Unleashed in the East is one of those albums that was great for its time and if you were a young lad listening to heavy music in the late 70s, it probably would have blown your head off. But in the context of time and even by the standards JP had set over the following decade, it just doesn't live up to the hype.
Quote from: Thorn on November 11, 2021, 04:45:04 PM
Quote from: Necro Red on November 11, 2021, 11:16:08 AM
Quote from: Mr Barlow on November 10, 2021, 05:51:11 PM
Remember when intros / instrumental tracks were all the rage during the 90s ? Was listening to Testimony Of The Ancients by Pestilence yesterday. I'm sure I loved them all at the time, but they went way overboard on that album !
yea, I agree there. I got in to this other band called Ressurection awhile back. They have an album called Embalmed Existence and it has the most annoying intros. Although, there is a version on YouTube with none. Have the vinyl and it has the intros unfortunately
The Ressurection has to be the worst ever
But the album is fucking quality. One of the best Florida DM albums.
Quote from: The Heretic on November 12, 2021, 08:50:54 AM
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on November 12, 2021, 01:11:09 AM
98 Live Meltdown > Unleashed In The East
98 Live Meltdown is a great album, played the fuck out of it when it first came out.....Unleashed was always a bit overrated I think..
True, I'd say the same about No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith.
Live In London is great too. The Ripper studio albums might have been subpar, but there's nothing wrong with those live ones.
Doomsday for the Deceiver is the best debut from any of the 80s thrash bands
You spelled Game Over wrong.
Nothing controversial about either of those. Except that they're not "Endless War".
Man,those first two Flotsam lps are fantastic.
Quote from: Carnage on November 10, 2021, 05:23:34 PM
I wouldn't be a fan of that one but I enjoy the fourth album, Subliminal Verses I think it's called. Still has all of their tics and trademarks, but it has a nice, dark edge to it that the others (that I've heard, anyway) lack.
It's OK to say you like Slipknot, we're all friends here.
'My own summer' is a metal classic.
I thought the first Deftones album was the business when it came out but 'Around the Fur' was a bit bland to my ears. I've checked out various songs by them over the years due to hype on MI and here and nothing has ever clicked for me. I bought 'White Pony' when it came out, actually, after reading great reviews and it was total shite. I just can't see the appeal of them at all anymore.
Agree with most of the above, but I quite enjoyed Around The Fur when it came out. Haven't listened to it for at least 15 years, I don't know whether it still holds up. Nothing since has done anything for me, though I haven't heard the most recent album.
I never really minded the Deftones, had White Pony like everyone else, and they had some other tracks I found decent, but nothing that ever made me a fan. What I never understood is how they ended up as the kind of default "thinking man's" nu metal band though. I guess all they had to do was not be as retarded as the incredibly retarded competition, but their fanbase was always something of a mystery to me nevertheless.
Big fan of a lot of Deftones' stuff, White Pony particularly being class but also the s/t and Diamond Eyes I'd rank very highly. Wasn't gone on Saturday Night Wrist for years, but had it on again lately and enjoyed it a lot. Can see why lads don't like them though, wouldn't see a like or dislike of them as being controversial.
Love the first two but lost interest when White Pony came out. Sold it not long after buying it. Came to tolerate it through manys the yogurt session later in my teens. Have dipped in and out over the years and enjoyed the album from last year more than anything since Around the Fur.
Deftones are class.
Always thought they were a decent band, have a few albums now. I wouldn't consider myself a huge fan or anything. They were brilliant when I seen them in Vicar Street a few years ago. Definitely a band worth seeing live
I find I really enjoy 2-5 songs off every Deftones album, but could take or leave the rest. Very similar to RATM in that regard, bar the s/t.
Having tried several times since the early 90s, I just can't get into Emperor. Or Mayhem. Or most other black metal. When I do find a black metal band that I like, I tend to get really into them and binge on them for a while but I just can't connect with most of it. I can appreciate the vibe and the aesthetic but musically, no, not for me.
I only listen to a small few black metal bands,i find a lot of the first wave of BM albums not that great tbh.The likes of Emperor,Immortal,Enslaved,i find their mid/later period output to be much better.
Killers is the worst of the first 7 Iron Maiden albums. Blows my mind that people reckon it's their best.
Quote from: Anton Arcane on November 18, 2021, 09:28:37 PM
Having tried several times since the early 90s, I just can't get into Emperor. Or Mayhem. Or most other black metal. When I do find a black metal band that I like, I tend to get really into them and binge on them for a while but I just can't connect with most of it. I can appreciate the vibe and the aesthetic but musically, no, not for me.
Emperor do nothing for me either. As for Mayhem, De Mysteriis and the stuff recorded with Dead is excellent but you could live without the rest. The later album with Attila are grand but not essential. Maniac is an unlistenable cunt.
Quote from: Mithrandir on November 19, 2021, 12:24:58 AM
Killers is the worst of the first 7 Iron Maiden albums. Blows my mind that people reckon it's their best.
Whenever I hear anyone saying that they rate either of the Di'Anno albums above anything up to Seventh Son I presume they're just saying it to sound cool.
'Iron Maiden' is up there with the classic Dickinson stuff. 'Killers' isn't a patch on it, though. D'Ianno's performance on the debut is so fucking cool. Completely different to Bruce, but I love his voice and attitude on those songs and I hope it makes me sound cool to say it 8)
It does.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on November 19, 2021, 01:33:44 AM
'Iron Maiden' is up there with the classic Dickinson stuff. 'Killers' isn't a patch on it, though. D'Ianno's performance on the debut is so fucking cool. Completely different to Bruce, but I love his voice and attitude on those songs and I hope it makes me sound cool to say it 8)
I agree, while I don't rate killers, the first album is one of the best records ever.
Indeed, Killers is brilliant. The first Maiden - actually the first metal - album I bought. Piece Of Mind is the worst of the '80s albums. The tinny production is bad enough (the 2015 remaster is the first time it's actually sounded listenable) but you also have one of their worst songs in Quest For Fire, and I'm no fan of Die With Your Boots On either.
Killers is my favourite Maiden album 8)
Poser
If only the first album had the production of Killers it would be perfect.
The drums on the debut sounds really weak.
Dianno was a perfect voice for those 2 albums.
Puritanical era Dimmu is best Dimmu.
Quote from: Blackout on November 20, 2021, 12:43:26 AM
Puritanical era Dimmu is best Dimmu.
Wouldn't say that's very controversial now.
Everyone I know who listens to them would agree on that tbh
Quote from: blessed1 on November 20, 2021, 02:21:35 PM
Quote from: Blackout on November 20, 2021, 12:43:26 AM
Puritanical era Dimmu is best Dimmu.
Wouldn't say that's very controversial now.
Everyone I know who listens to them would agree on that tbh
I find the opposite. Too polished for some.
If I'm in the mood for Maiden, its Iron Maiden or Killers I'd always reach for bar the odd time I'd go for Number Of The Beast for nostalgic reasons.
I've no time for Brucey Boy at all, he's like a lad that wasn't good enough to be a classical singer so he said "Sure I'll give the auld rock a go", and he got away with it.
At the risk of being controversial - he aint metal.
Not liking Bruce's vocals is one thing and being critical of his intentions, while maybe a bit far fetched (I have never read his autobiography and know very little about him so maybe you know something here that I don't), is also fair game, but to say that he's not metal when his own unique style, whether good or bad, has had such a massive influence on countless heavy metal singers is far far off the mark as to not even qualify as controversial. It's simply silly.
Sarcofago are shit besides "Laws of Scourge" and people only like "INRI" because of the cover
The first three words there are all you need. Awful band.
On a related note, Morbid Visions and Bestial Devastation in particular are unlistenably shit.
Quote from: Born of Fire on November 19, 2021, 01:03:27 AM
Emperor do nothing for me either. As for Mayhem, De Mysteriis and the stuff recorded with Dead is excellent but you could live without the rest. The later album with Attila are grand but not essential. Maniac is an unlistenable cunt.
The Maniac era wasn't all bad. Grand Declaration of War was shite, Chimera and Wolf's Lair Abyss are deadly.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on November 21, 2021, 05:36:00 AM
Not liking Bruce's vocals is one thing and being critical of his intentions, while maybe a bit far fetched (I have never read his autobiography and know very little about him so maybe you know something here that I don't), is also fair game, but to say that he's not metal when his own unique style, whether good or bad, has had such a massive influence on countless heavy metal singers is far far off the mark as to not even qualify as controversial. It's simply silly.
I don't disagree with a single thing ya said here man, you'r right.
I haven't read his autobiography myself and am really in no position to make judgments on the man at all, my opinion of him is more than likely groundless.
I just never got a real metalhead vibe off him to be honest, if that makes any sense. At the risk of sounding faggy, I think he has no emotional attachment to the music. That's what I meant by "He aint metal", and it probably is a silly statement, but then I'm a silly cunt.
Ah yeah, I get you. I can't imagine he's neck deep in metal either. But probably none of them are at this stage.
It's easy to forget that extreme metal wasn't a thing when these old lads were growing up either, the heaviest band they would have been exposed to would have been Sabbath, most heavier metal is probably alien to them.
Quote from: hellfire on November 21, 2021, 06:32:57 PM
Quote from: Born of Fire on November 19, 2021, 01:03:27 AM
Emperor do nothing for me either. As for Mayhem, De Mysteriis and the stuff recorded with Dead is excellent but you could live without the rest. The later album with Attila are grand but not essential. Maniac is an unlistenable cunt.
The Maniac era wasn't all bad. Grand Declaration of War was shite, Chimera and Wolf's Lair Abyss are deadly.
Went back to Chimera lately and enjoyed it. Been at least 10 years since I had it on.
Quote from: ldj on November 21, 2021, 08:06:58 PM
It's easy to forget that extreme metal wasn't a thing when these old lads were growing up either, the heaviest band they would have been exposed to would have been Sabbath, most heavier metal is probably alien to them.
Fair point.
I dunno, there was plenty of heavy stuff emerging in the late 70s, early 80s but maybe more in the hardcore punk scene. But you had Venom in the very early 80s, not to mention the growing thrash scene.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on November 21, 2021, 09:27:24 PM
I dunno, there was plenty of heavy stuff emerging in the late 70s, early 80s but maybe more in the hardcore punk scene. But you had Venom in the very early 80s, not to mention the growing thrash scene.
Fair counter-point.
[quote author=Born of Fire link=topic=203.msg58630#msg58630 date=1637283807
As for Mayhem, De Mysteriis and the stuff recorded with Dead is excellent but you could live without the rest. The later album with Attila are grand but not essential. Maniac is an unlistenable cunt.
[/quote]
I agree.
Queens Of The Stone Age first album was their best....its class......everything else since then has been a disappointment
Agreed on the first point, but Rated R and Songs For The Deaf were both good (though the DJ intros on the latter were fucking terrible, pointless, and ruin the flow of the album completely for me). From Lullabies (3 decent tracks) onward though, absolute shite.
Massively overrated band. I can't stand Kyuss or any of that scene but at least they're niche underground bands. QOTSA and The Eagles of Death Metal on the other hand have no business being so big. Just aggressively marketed "rock" for people that want to rock out in a bland and safe way. Which is a huge and lucrative audience of course.
Nah, QOTSA were class up until the last album, especially when they had Lanegan and Oliveri contributing to vocals.
Eagles of Death Metal are irredeemably shite however.
Incredible band. EoDM suck from what I've heard.
I thought the first album was OK, but very hipster happy.
They became a bit hipster in the last decade or so, especially when Homme started buying into the slick rock n roller thing, but for the first couple of records they were just a great rock band, could be heavy as fuck at times, weird and trippy or just straight up great melodic songwriters.
Would have loved to see them in 2002 with Grohl, Lanegan and Oliveri, there was some chemistry in that lineup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzMUZ0rt-5U
EODM I meant in the post previous, re: the hipster thing, but yeah, Homme's gone that way in general alright.
Sae QOTSA on that tour, but I don't think either Grohl or Lanegan played that night (the Ambassador). Savage gig, though.
SFTD is their masterpiece IMO. I like the DJ sections a lot, they add to the fun and tie the record together thematically.
Nothing else in their catalogue matches it. The debut is good but not as good as Songs..., and Rated R is pretty overrated despite some high points.
I did see the classic line up about 20 years ago which was fortunate as without Oliveri the band had no balls and they just became Homme plus hired hands making silly hipster music.
I'd say Era Vulgrais is my favourite but have been buzzing off the debut lately as well and generally like them all except Rated R never did a lot for me. I'll go back at some point. Them Crooked Vultures is also in the running for me if we're being loose with the rules.
That Them Crooked Vultures album is a goddamn gem.
Quote from: open face surgery on November 21, 2021, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: hellfire on November 21, 2021, 06:32:57 PM
Quote from: Born of Fire on November 19, 2021, 01:03:27 AM
Emperor do nothing for me either. As for Mayhem, De Mysteriis and the stuff recorded with Dead is excellent but you could live without the rest. The later album with Attila are grand but not essential. Maniac is an unlistenable cunt.
The Maniac era wasn't all bad. Grand Declaration of War was shite, Chimera and Wolf's Lair Abyss are deadly.
Went back to Chimera lately and enjoyed it. Been at least 10 years since I had it on.
Am I the only one here who loves A Grand Declaration of War? I enjoy it as much as any of the rest
Their best album for me, though it's structured awfully (empty tracks, songs split across tracks, etc.).
Oh yeah I find QOTSA mostly boring. I don't really get the appeal at all.
GDOW is fuckin awful on more or less all fronts. I think Chimera is the only thing with Maniac, bar Deathcrush, that I can handle.
I thought Chimera was far worse and was bored to tears before halfway through any time I tried it. I can fully understand why anyone who was into Mayhem would dislike GDOW given the sound of it but I like the absurdity of it. Maniac's spoken word parts always give me a good laugh too. He sounds like Liquid Snake out of the first Metal Gear Solid.
Might get cancelled for this but 'Heathen Tribes' by Primordial would raise a few eyebrows if listened to after first putting on Samael track 'On Earth', which predates it. If I were being polite I'd say the former is heavily influenced by the latter.
Seems like a serious reach. Listened to both there and apart from the actual words Heathen Tribes, I see no connection. That Samael track is dogshit.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 13, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
I thought Chimera was far worse and was bored to tears before halfway through any time I tried it. I can fully understand why anyone who was into Mayhem would dislike GDOW given the sound of it but I like the absurdity of it. Maniac's spoken word parts always give me a good laugh too. He sounds like Liquid Snake out of the first Metal Gear Solid.
Chimera is awful I have tried so many times and I don't like anything about it. Wolfs Lair is excellent and GDOW is good (especially the lyrics). Ordo and Esoteric Warfare are masterpieces. The last album was decent enough as well.
Quote from: open face surgery on February 14, 2022, 08:51:54 PM
Seems like a serious reach. Listened to both there and apart from the actual words Heathen Tribes, I see no connection. That Samael track is dogshit.
On earth is a ridiculous song. Samaels early stuff is cool though. Ceremony of opposites is deadly and Passage has some great riffs.
Quote from: blessed1 on February 14, 2022, 10:33:54 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on February 14, 2022, 08:51:54 PM
Seems like a serious reach. Listened to both there and apart from the actual words Heathen Tribes, I see no connection. That Samael track is dogshit.
On earth is a ridiculous song. Samaels early stuff is cool though. Ceremony of opposites is deadly and Passage has some great riffs.
Samaels Blood Ritual should be class but to me listening to it it feels like it's always building up to something that never materialises.
Quote from: open face surgery on February 14, 2022, 08:51:54 PM
Seems like a serious reach. Listened to both there and apart from the actual words Heathen Tribes, I see no connection. That Samael track is dogshit.
It is a desperate song. Going from place to place (Vienna to Ankara etc etc), the tune isn't a million miles away either. Granted I had that album on out running so I wasn't focussing 100% on it. It's an exceptionally gay and shit track with a highly similar theme to HT. Could be coincidence, who knows.
I don't think the lyric isn't heathen tribes, rather hidden tribes.
Huge Paradise Lost fan, but have being going through the catalogue in anticipation of the gigs in September. Draconian Times is not a great record at all. It's front loaded with all the best stuff happening very early on. Go past Once Solemn and the quality nosedives, I was fairly bored listening to the rest of it and wondered how I ever rated it so highly. Even the production on the earlier songs like Enchantment is light years ahead of some that follows later on in the record.
Funny, I always thought the same until recently, when I found myself enjoying the second half more than the first. Perhaps because I was less familiar with it, but it seemed fresher than side one when I spun it last.
Here's one - Into Infinite Obscurity is the best thing Dissection did, the albums sound tame compared to what they managed on this.
BURZUM is the most useless "Metal" band to exist. Don't know how people are into this shit. Tried again with it earlier today just out of boredom. "Atmosphere/feeling" and Black Spells of Destruction me hole. The lore around it was and still is cool; I love the cover of the Debut and here, honestly I feel we need to bring back a bit of this church burning for the craic like (what happened with Gaahl in that Metal A Headbangers Journey doc interview saying it should and will be done much more in the future..?), but I listened to the early albums BURZUM-Filosofem in full once years ago as a curiosity, and honestly its just something I would never wanna go through again with any of the songs again. And Varg himself is clearly a fucking dickhead. Fuck him and his shite music and his crispsy cornflakes too!
I Am really into a lot of Black Metal bands, I think MAYHEM, Satyricon, WATAIN would be my top 3, but there is just so many and too many boring as fuck and shit sounding shite BM out there I just dont get into at all. XASTHUR at least has way more layers and musical depth in the atmospheric appeal and dark feeling BM heads go on about, I mean compare BURZUMs Dunkelheit or whatever to XATHURs Prison of Mirrors. but I don't know, even XASTHUR bore the hole off me too ha so I guess I'm just not into this atmospheric depressive lofi BM sound most of the time
As far as primitve production goes like.. Darkthrone's A Blaze/Under A Funeral for example now I can't deny sound fucking evil but like the early Satyricon albums at least it is musically still decent & interesting with great metal riffs and blastbeats that sound fucking heavy
For me BLACK METAL evolved from quality bands like VENOM, BATHORY, HELLHAMMER/CELTIC FROST and fuckin SLAYER. So I mean if it doesn't sound more dark and evil than SLAYER I don't see how its BLACK fucking METAL. :abbath: :abbath: >:(
Funny, I was listening to Hvis Lysett Tar Oss last night. Burzum are top three for me but I get why they wouldn't be for everyone. I tell you what though, you can say what you like about Varg, but when it comes to burying a knife into someone's skull there's no better man for the job.
Lulu is Metallica's best album since Justice.....
A caution to the wind off the cuff brilliant album!
Quote from: Danny on June 24, 2023, 11:07:04 PMBURZUM is the most useless "Metal" band to exist. Don't know how people are into this shit. Tried again with it earlier today just out of boredom. "Atmosphere/feeling" and Black Spells of Destruction me hole. The lore around it was and still is cool; I love the cover of the Debut and here, honestly I feel we need to bring back a bit of this church burning for the craic like (what happened with Gaahl in that Metal A Headbangers Journey doc interview saying it should and will be done much more in the future..?), but I listened to the early albums BURZUM-Filosofem in full once years ago as a curiosity, and honestly its just something I would never wanna go through again with any of the songs again. And Varg himself is clearly a fucking dickhead. Fuck him and his shite music and his crispsy cornflakes too!
I Am really into a lot of Black Metal bands, I think MAYHEM, Satyricon, WATAIN would be my top 3, but there is just so many and too many boring as fuck and shit sounding shite BM out there I just dont get into at all. XASTHUR at least has way more layers and musical depth in the atmospheric appeal and dark feeling BM heads go on about, I mean compare BURZUMs Dunkelheit or whatever to XATHURs Prison of Mirrors. but I don't know, even XASTHUR bore the hole off me too ha so I guess I'm just not into this atmospheric depressive lofi BM sound most of the time
As far as primitve production goes like.. Darkthrone's A Blaze/Under A Funeral for example now I can't deny sound fucking evil but like the early Satyricon albums at least it is musically still decent & interesting with great metal riffs and blastbeats that sound fucking heavy
For me BLACK METAL evolved from quality bands like VENOM, BATHORY, HELLHAMMER/CELTIC FROST and fuckin SLAYER. So I mean if it doesn't sound more dark and evil than SLAYER I don't see how its BLACK fucking METAL. :abbath: :abbath: >:(
No no no no no no no no.
NOOOOOOOOO.
I'll admit the first time I heard Burzum I thought it was average. How wrong I was. He is on another level in all ways. Far superior to most of the other stuff.
Burzum, Bathory and Darkthrone. Top 3.
there is no justification for not liking Burzum! :abbath:
Here's one that'll definitely be controversial to a lot of ye I reckon;
The modern black metal/post-black metal and various offshoots that have been happening are miles better than the first wave stuff for the most part. Give me Altar of Plagues, Procession of Spectres, Mizmor, Wiegedood and so on over almost any of the Norwegian bands, every time.
It's not a competition and there had to be pioneers (and look, maybe if I was there for it I'd feel different) but fuckit, I think it's been explored a lot better than initially. I'd actually expand this across the board tbh, a lot of my favourites were made this century. I think it's a very very exciting time to be a metal fan to be honest.
:abbath:
Like saying Big Tom is better than Zeppelin.
I might have agreed with that outlook years ago when I was busy checking out every new release and really invigorated by the new things being done. But over the years I've found myself drawn more and more to the earlier bands and these days I think there is no comparison. The original stuff is the best.
No question for me either.
Scream Bloody Gore sounds like shit and is my least favourite Death album. Not saying that it's not good, but it sounds so shit.
No, that is a Wrong Thing. Listen to the recentish Relapse remaster, it sounds great.
Re: black metal - I genuinely think the Burzum s/t is the definitive BM album. Raw as fuck (and one of the only 'raw' BM albums I can abide) and just primal in its ferocity. Try as 'they' might to trivialise it in light of Varg's general ridiculous personality/image, he hit the nail on the head with that one.
On the other hand, I fucking hate Darkthrone, (most) Mayhem, (early) Ulver etc. for the same reason, the deliberate primitive approach. I realise the contradiction, but there you are.
WITTR, Gaerea, The Secret, Mizmor, Bolzer, Urfaust, Schammasch, TROB, Wiegedood, etc. I'm a fan of some of the recent crop, but I could do without Liturgy, Mork, a lot of others.
I was gonna type out a long winded thing but fuck it.
Burzum - THE BEST.
Led ZEPPLIN, I'd take Big Tom.
Gjendød are the best new black metal band going.
I go through phases of listening to newer or older stuff, be that BM or any other subgenre. Don't think I'm interested in concluding on one being better or worse. Certainly in terms of metal in general, there are albums from newer bands (roughly, any band formed post 2000) which I think definitely hold their own against the classic catalogue. Formulas of Death or Black Future can stand alongside classic output from Metallica or Slayer, just as Portrait's Crossroads can stand alongside classic output from Priest or Maiden, and the examples can be multiplied. Point is, imo, no definitive door has been closed that prevents serious newer bands attaining to classic heights. Thank the gods.
I think the last time I felt truly up to date with new releases was probably 2014. I feel like from then onwards there was just too many bands to wade through and more shit I didn't care about versus stuff I found interesting. Maybe it was just where I was with my metal listening at the time but now I just stick to the classics and digging up old stuff I missed for the most part. Obviouy there's some bands on my radar and some new stuff I like but I don't really trawl through a sea of bands actively trying to find new stuff.
Also this is probably a controversial take, but the period of 2008-2010 was the last great period for metal in recent years I reckon (if we're considering 13 years ago recent, that is :laugh: )
Big Tom, Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest are all cat .....
Why can't Varg release another decent album..... and why the fuck can't those muppets in Dark Throne get a band together and play live!!!
Tha fuck!
Zeppelin are class ye cretinous cunts.
They are class until yerman starts his screeching and wailing like a banshee.
While I'm at it give me Ringo Starr over John Bonham.
Quote from: Circlepit on June 27, 2023, 08:59:19 AMThey are class when yerman starts his screeching and wailing like a banshee.
While I'm at it let me open my Ring Star for John Bonham.
Fixed yer typo there ;)
Ringo Starr over John Bonham
OUTRAGE!
Wait maybe you have a point! if its Piano playing that is!
Quote from: Mithrandir on June 16, 2023, 09:06:55 AMHere's one - Into Infinite Obscurity is the best thing Dissection did, the albums sound tame compared to what they managed on this.
This one got kinda jumped over. For me, this is a perfect controversial metal opinion. I don't personally agree with it, but it's the kind of position I'm glad to know some people out there hold :laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: Circlepit on June 27, 2023, 08:59:19 AMWhile I'm at it give me Ringo Starr over John Bonham.
What the actual fuck is going on? There would want to be a gazillion parallel universes to find just one where Ringo is anywhere near Bonhams level.
Ringo is better at being alive. That's it. That's all.
Think Ringo and Lars have that "liberal time keeping" going on :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: open face surgery on June 28, 2023, 12:26:35 PMRingo is better at being alive. That's it. That's all.
I feel there is no comeback from that argument. Robert Plant is still a banshee.
The little lad is at a birthday party, so bit of a schmoke and an afternoon rumble in the jungle listening to this. As much as I genuinely love The Beatles, as a rocker ya really gotta have a screw loose to think they ever did anything to touch the bangers of every colour and flavour on Physical Graffiti.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6I31ev1GM
St anger is an excellent album controversial I know but who gives a fluck.. Also slayers D.I.M and repentless are excellent. Megadeths the system has failed is the best thing mustaine has done since 91. Oh and Anthrax recent albums have been class. I'll get me coat.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 28, 2023, 11:03:06 AMQuote from: Mithrandir on June 16, 2023, 09:06:55 AMHere's one - Into Infinite Obscurity is the best thing Dissection did, the albums sound tame compared to what they managed on this.
This one got kinda jumped over. For me, this is a perfect controversial metal opinion. I don't personally agree with it, but it's the kind of position I'm glad to know some people out there hold :laugh: :abbath:
I'm in full agreement, unsurprisingly
Quote from: NINE-T on August 27, 2023, 11:29:07 PMSt anger is an excellent album controversial I know but who gives a fluck.. Also slayers D.I.M and repentless are excellent. Megadeths the system has failed is the best thing mustaine has done since 91. Oh and Anthrax recent albums have been class. I'll get me coat.
MEGADETH - The System Has Failed...... ah man, to be fair you have a point. Poland is even on it.
Diabolus in Musica was a defo Slayer experiment moment, defo has its moments and the tour was epic! 2 nights in the SFX here! epic!
Repentless is a sad way to bow out, World Painted Blood was the real swansong.
ST Anger, I've listen to the least! Wouldn't even pick it up to be honest!
Agreed WPB was the swansong four the original line up, but repentless is a terrific album. Metallica always changed and upset people. I got into them from RTL when it came out and people said that was a sell out. If compare their first five lps , bar RTL and MOP they always took risks, and I came from listening to 70s/80s punk clash, pistols , ruts,SLF, kennedys, which was all about change and risk, probably explains my love for st anger. Your right about Poland what a guitarist, peace sells is their best album and line too me.
I do like Repentless.... have the Metal Eagle Box, epic piece of musical history. Massive Slayer fan, I'd have to get all my tickets together to see just how many times I have actually seen them. Its at least 30!!!!!! Starting in the early 90's
Interesting comment on the RTL and MOP, being kinda not risk albums.
RISK!!!!! No!!!!! can't handle that album!
Yeah RISK is a head scratcher alright! May be that should of been his solo project. What I meant by RTL and MOP is that they are similar to each other, but as you said they took risks with them as well , As much as METALLICA take fair kicking these days , I've enjoyed my journey with them so far obviously highs and not so highs , the big four really have been a part of my life since I was an 80s punk/thrash head. The impact the big four had on metal and alternative metal can not be underestimated.
Anthrax are the only one of the four who released anything worth a second listen after 1992.
I think Peace Sells is best Megadeth also. I find Rust in peace a liitle too clean. Yes fantastic songs there but no great edge to some of them compared to Peace Sells. I would put So Far, so good.. 2nd which I suppose is my controversial part here. Love that album. It's pretty fucking evil and messed up sounding.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on August 28, 2023, 01:51:46 PMAnthrax are the only one of the four who released anything worth a second listen after 1992.
Mmmm I think Countdown to Extinction and Youthanasia are fine.
Load is OK but reload is patchy. Everything else is tragicomedy.
Some Slayer was OK but a lot of padding though.
Anthrax had a few good albums with bush what would you recommend with Joey era 2?
This thread has gone from controversial to outright heresy :laugh:
I think Anthrax, "Worship Music" and "For All Kings" is possibly their best work. Before those two I loved "Persistence of Time", Parts of "Volume 8" and "we Have Come For You All". Yes I was around for "Sound of White noise" which I don't mind and its a solid album.
I would reckon "Countdown..." is a better album than "Rust In Peace", the guitar changes, clean to heavy and the to me Megadeth really reached a new peak at that time. Throw in "Angry Again", "Go To Hell" and some other of the "Hidden Treasures" stuff and wow.
Would also reckon "Peace Sells" is a better album than "So Far so good..." for a load of reasons. The album sound and playing are possibly better. BUT!!! These albums right up to "Youthanasia" are all amazing.
Slayer and Anthrax are the post 90's bands of the big 4 I reckon. Slayer fell apart but Anthrax are still there. Although how many times have I seen Anthrax minus a member the last 10 years I don't know! 6 possibly! Seeing John Dette I suppose was a bonus. Andreas Kisser well, nah to that Cavalera Meal Ticket Stealer :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Metallica: I remember the "Black" Album coming out and completely dismissing Metallica. It was only later when "Binge and Purge" came out and I watched the Seattle show I went and bought "Master of Puppets". Sepultura were rocking it for me at the time along with Death. So I suppose I was into the more extreme edge of things. Napalm Death and even Paradise Lost. But I will say for me Metallica are a Love Hate type thing. They have however kinda jilted me. "Death Magnetic" was good..... Hardwired was good, a lot of filler on the second side...I'd keep "Spit out the bone" and chuck the entire second disk!!!!
Slayer, I remain loyal to them, "Undisputed Attitude" is the true F$5K you to corporate rock.
Quote from: Don Gately on August 28, 2023, 01:57:49 PMI think Peace Sells is best Megadeth also. I find Rust in peace a liitle too clean. Yes fantastic songs there but no great edge to some of them compared to Peace Sells. I would put So Far, so good.. 2nd which I suppose is my controversial part here. Love that album. It's pretty fucking evil and messed up sounding.
Spot on with peace sells , peace sells, master of puppets, reign in blood and among the living . Are true classics. Rust in peace is a good album but I'd have Seth's first 3 and count down b; it. Anthrax for all kings is excellent, followed closely by worship music.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on August 28, 2023, 01:51:46 PMAnthrax are the only one of the four who released anything worth a second listen after 1992.
Defo the right thread for this :laugh:
I'll add my own - bar a handful of songs, Anthrax never released anything worth a listen. Have no idea how anyone rates them.
Divine Intervention is Slayer's third-best album.
I like Divine Intervention but every album before it is leagues ahead. Anthrax are nothing more than an also ran, for me.
I think Hell Awaits is shit, I'd rate it just above Diabolus and Undisputed. I might have mentioned this before but I wouldn't put RIB down as a top 3 Slayer album, let alone their best.
Someone was asking about the Bush-era Anthrax albums - the only one I liked was WCFYA, and about half of that is filler.
Edit: I did a mix of the Bush-era songs that I liked:
Room For One More
Hy Pro Glo
Invisible
1000 Points Of Hate
C11 H17 N2 O2 S Na
Riding Shotgun
Crush
Killing Box
What Doesn't Die
Refuse To Be Denied
Safe Home
Any Place But Here
Black Dahlia
Think About An End
WCFYA the only Bush one i really like too.I really like the last few Anthrax albums,was always a big fan tbh.
Hell Awaits is my favourite Slayer album.
I will say however that Show No Mercy is a bit shit- good songs played and produced badly- and Live Undead is far superior, which might possibly be controversial.
This is definitely going to fuck a few people off here: Abominations Of Desolation is absolute piss.
Not a black metal purist but whoever said Wiegedood are better than the "classics" needs their fucking head checked. One of the dullest bands I've ever seen or heard. Dogshit, like everything else that AmenRa crew produce.
Divine Intervention is good,nothing more,tbh ive probably listened to Diabolous or God hates us all more over the years.
Don't think I've listened to either Divine Intervention or Diabolous in nearly 20 years, probably worth a revisit
Divine Intervention was the last great Slayer album.
I had GHUA on in the car the other day. I used to love it but whilst listening all I was thinking was "'stop shouting you cunt".
That could also be down to AA going on about in on his podcast.
I heard Abominations after Covenant and I thought it was shite. I love it now though.
Yep, agreed on Divine Intervention. Haven't listened to GHUA in 20 years and no interest. Show No Mercy is 10/10 and I love Abominations.
Didn't realise that Wiegedood were Amenra affiliates. Makes sense. That sort of "black metal" is pure shite.
Quote from: Carnage on August 28, 2023, 06:08:51 PMI think Hell Awaits is shit, I'd rate it just above Diabolus and Undisputed.
Now that is fuckin controversial!! Hell Awaits is unreal, easily my go to Slayer album. There's a deliciously dark atmosphere to it that they never managed to recapture.
South Of Heaven trumps them all.
Angel Of Disease is probably one of the best Morbid Angel songs.
South and Seasons are my go to Slayer albums,very rarely listen to the albums around those now tbh.
Angel of disease is a class track,but all out of place on Covenant!
Quote from: Born of Fire on August 28, 2023, 09:27:48 PMQuote from: Carnage on August 28, 2023, 06:08:51 PMI think Hell Awaits is shit, I'd rate it just above Diabolus and Undisputed.
Now that is fuckin controversial!! Hell Awaits is unreal, easily my go to Slayer album. There's a deliciously dark atmosphere to it that they never managed to recapture.
It's an unreal album. Literally had it on today. It's never too long between listens.
Quote from: Paul keohane on August 28, 2023, 10:05:08 PMAngel of disease is a class track,but all out of place on Covenant!
That's why it works! It's like a load of mad punk cunts took over !
Another vote for Hell Awaits as the best Slayer album.
Seasons is the worst of the first five imo, still good, but not quite on the level of the first four. Never bothered much with DI, seems like the album were they became 'aware' of themselves as Slayer.
I agree with Hell Awaits being pretty naff. There's some good songs on there, but the production is easily the worst they ever had. Robs it of everything.
Quote from: Born of Fire on August 28, 2023, 09:27:48 PMQuote from: Carnage on August 28, 2023, 06:08:51 PMI think Hell Awaits is shit, I'd rate it just above Diabolus and Undisputed.
There's a deliciously dark atmosphere to it that they never managed to recapture.
This, exactly, it's the most evil sounding Slayer record. The title track was the first Slayer song I ever heard courtesy fo the old Monsters of Rock TV show. I must have been about 10. I was absolutely terrified by it. Life changing moment for sure.
Worship Music is mighty, their best since Persistence Of Time. It took me a while to adjust to Belladonna singing in a lower register but it works. Haven't spent much time with For All Kings so I can't really comment on that.
The title track aside, Hell Awaits is shite. Poor songs, murky production and sloppily played.
Their top 5 is:
1. South Of Heaven (they never topped this. Brutal and melodic in one go, much better than its predecessor - the last few seconds of Spill The Blood are their heaviest ever moment. Even the Priest cover is top notch - and better than the original).
=2. Show No Mercy (all piss and vinegar, pure NWOBHM worship, particularly Venom and early Maiden. Naive but full of intent, and they already had the songwriting chops, well ahead of their contemporaries).
=2. Seasons In The Abyss (their absolute peak as songwriters, the flow on this album is unrivalled. Its only flaw is that its production is slightly compressed. That and the annoying and anachronistic 'child's' voice in Dead Skin Mask).
4. Reign In Blood (its ferocity cannot be denied, but it's simply one dimensional - all attack and no respite, a poor dynamic).
5. Divine Intervention (absolutely nothing new or essential here but it's the best of the rest. A few serious tracks but it's their last decent album. It'll do).
Been in here with this before but Diabolous is up there with my favourite of the Slayer stuff if I leave it at maybe the first 8 tracks.
Hell Awaits isn't even the best song on Hell Awaits.
That'll be Necrophiliac.
Sure while I'm trashing debuts.. "War and Pain" by Voivod is a terrible album, always shocks me when people rave about it. Mind you they did go on to make the greates music ever made after it, so I'll allow it.
I thought I'd said this earlier when i was moaning about Entombed, but "Dark Recollections" by Carnage > "Left Hand Path"
Carnage's top 5 is about right, IMO. But the top 3 are interchangable depending with way the wind is blowing.
As for Anthrax!
I love 'Persistance...'. Definitely a right place, right time album for me. Same for the Killer B's album.
And the early stuff 'Fistful..' and 'Armed & Dangerous' are class.
The Joey reunion albums are solid efforts, especially FAK and I'm looking forward to the next one.
Their classic 'Spreading... Among.. and State' albums have not aged well at all and I find very hard to listen to any more.
The Bush albums I really like too, but the weakest two are definitely bookended by the better two.
The comp album of re-recorded Joey era tracks they did with Bush is excellent too. They really breathed new life into them. But it was all for naught as soon after the reunion tour happened and Bush fecked off rather than share the stage.
I think "Among The Living" holds up great. Love that album. I quite like "State" as well. Might be more childhood nostalgia in that case though, the same way I can justify liking a surprisingly large amount of late 80s funk metal. Lost interest around "Persistence" but there's a few tunes on there.
'State..' is unfairly maligned, some good 'deep cuts' on there, 'Make me Laugh ', 'Misery Loves Company '. Like the production too.
Im a huge fan of State of Euphoria,that and Persistence my go to Albums.
I remember getting a loan of Sound of a white noise back in the day,I just couldn't get into it.I largely ignored the Bush 90s stuff.The only thing by Anthrax I bought back then was the live album The Island years.WCFYA came out and that definitely sparked my interest in the band again.
Lads "Hell Awaits" .... "At dawn they sleep" what a song..... "Hardening of the Arteries" is class as well the way it flips back into the "Hell Awaits" intro drums! Great Album and I still love "Hell Awaits" itself.
"Show no mercy" I love that album on a tape playing walkman, the left / right leads really come out. "Black Magic", "Fight Till Death", "Tormentor"...."Crionics" .....The version on the "Slaughtered By Slayer" tribute recorded by "Merciless"...must revisit the two of those CDs.... some epic recording on them! "Hypocrisy" playing "Black Magic"...."At the Gates" playing "Captor of sin" ......epic!
Reign In Blood cannot be denied.... its is brilliant.
I'd say "Diabolus in Musica" is their weakest album. There is some filler on "Divine.....", "Like "Mind Control". "Ditto Head" is great, "213" has its moments then slows down?
Speaking of Entombed, Wolverine Blues is the best of it for me but I dunno how controversial that is.
As for Slayer and Diabolous being the worst, I think God Hates Us All its far worse than it.
And yeah that first Voivod album is very bad
Voivod before Nothingface for me, awful shite.
Wolverine Blues is great, but I never took to Clandestine.
I can understand not liking the first two but Killing Technology and Dimension Hatross ???
There's controversial, and then there's just plain incorrect.
I love Wolverine Blues ,but i nearly always reach for To Ride... first for my DeathNRoll Entombed buzz.
Probably not controversial, let alone on this forum, but after listening to DMDS just there, I think Atillas vocals are miles cooler than what Dead might have done. They are demented and ahead of their time.
More of a what if than a controversy. Atilla definitely brings something of his own to that record. I listen to all of the live albums regularly and those songs are special regardless of who did the vocals.
I think Atilla's vocals are amazing. They take getting used to but they make that album completely unique. Dead had a cool voice but was more typical.
Sure, but I don't think those vocals were considered typical at the time?
I think Dead's vocals can be easily traced to the likes of Quorthon, and also sat comfortably alongside Varg and Nocturno Culto in terms of delivery. He had his own sort of rawness, no doubt but Atilla's style was completely out there and it would be hard to find another comparable singer in metal operating at that time.
Oh yeah, Atilla is 100% unique and I've never seen anyone try to emulate him either. Not shitting on him, guess we'll never know. I still do that what if thing a lot when listening to the Dead stuff. The studio tracks he did are as close as we'll get.
Controversial metal opinions: Atilla's vocals are the worst thing about Mayhem, and Maniac is the only decent vocalist they've ever had. Atilla sounds like a severely constipated Dave Mustaine and is fucking hilarious as a result. The only listenable version of DMDS is the instrumental version, and Grand Declaration is their best album. Dead was shite.
....and breathe...
My daughter, not a black metal fan in general, announced to me on Sunday that she'd been checking out Mayhem lately (presumably random tunes on Spotify) and while she really liked the tunes off Deathcrush, she thought the vocals on the other stuff were absolute bollocks. :laugh:
I like Atilla's vocals, but he sounds like your da stuck in the porch drunk during a lot of De Mysteriis and I'll never not laugh at the "In the middle of Transylvania" line delivered like a cartoon villain.
Quote from: Carnage on October 04, 2023, 03:20:51 AMControversial metal opinions: Atilla's vocals are the worst thing about Mayhem, and Maniac is the only decent vocalist they've ever had. Atilla sounds like a severely constipated Dave Mustaine and is fucking hilarious as a result. The only listenable version of DMDS is the instrumental version, and Grand Declaration is their best album. Dead was shite.
....and breathe...
I like the vocals on dmds but they are definitely hilarious at the same time. Also love A Grand Declaration as much as DMDS but it's like a different band altogether and there's no real point in comparing the two
I think Attila is pretty cool and like his vocals, but I prefer MANIAC. Dead though was something else; if he didn't kill himself it might be interesting to see what MAYHEM would have done with him over the years.
Here's one, "WAR Metal" is a load of Bollox. BLASPHEMY and REVENGE are very possibly the 2 best and coolest most metal band names, but neither of these bands do shit for me. I'll add BEHERIT to that as well, they are even worse. Sloppy boring shite. Even the newer bands in this style like Diocletian I don't get. Teitanblood would be the only exception for me, they are actually an interesting listen.
Wouldn't count Beherit or Blasphemy as war metal personally and I've a soft spot for both, but yes, otherwise wholeheartedly agree. Uniformly cobblers, absolute zero imagination dullard bullshit
Who?
I don't think I've heard any of this war metal stuff
Deathcrush is class musically but Maniacs spastic wailing ruins it for me.
Quote from: Danny on October 08, 2023, 02:47:46 PMI think Attila is pretty cool and like his vocals, but I prefer MANIAC. Dead though was something else; if he didn't kill himself it might be interesting to see what MAYHEM would have done with him over the years.
Here's one, "WAR Metal" is a load of Bollox. BLASPHEMY and REVENGE are very possibly the 2 best and coolest most metal band names, but neither of these bands do shit for me. I'll add BEHERIT to that as well, they are even worse. Sloppy boring shite. Even the newer bands in this style like Diocletian I don't get. Teitanblood would be the only exception for me, they are actually an interesting listen.
I hate the term 'war metal'. I know it's a thing, but I just find it cringe.
The first Diocletian was probably a little on the nose but I think they did something distinct on War Of all and Gesundrian, Among the flames is absolutely dogshit.
Drawing down the moon is one of the best black metal albums of all time.
Here's maybe a controversial one, I'd rank powerslave last of the 5 Bruce 80's albums.
Quote from: Danny on October 08, 2023, 02:47:46 PMHere's one, "WAR Metal" is a load of Bollox. BLASPHEMY and REVENGE are very possibly the 2 best and coolest most metal band names, but neither of these bands do shit for me. I'll add BEHERIT to that as well, they are even worse. Sloppy boring shite. Even the newer bands in this style like Diocletian I don't get. Teitanblood would be the only exception for me, they are actually an interesting listen.
Beherit and Blasphemy are good bands but both are very overrated especially Beherit. At least with Blasphemy nobody else was making music like they were in 1990.
Revenge were great until Pete Helmkamp left. They went from being one of my favourite bands to me still having not even bothered with the last EP or full length. Diocletian are great I am looking forward to the new album I hope Impurath is doing vocals again.
I listen to DDTM more often than FAOD so I disagree.
No.
What is war metal, this is the first time I've heard of it. Is it a black metal subgenre?
Conqueror, Revenge, Axis of Advance, Diocletian, Goatpenis etc. Bands that don't quite fit in neatly with either black metal or death metal, but draw from both genres, and usually have a militant lyrical and aesthetic approach. Lots of blast beats, noisy riffs (usually) and often a frenzied barking approach to vocals rather than guttural or shrieking vocals. Often big breakdowns in their music. Roughly that.
Right, thanks. After checking them out I've decided that war metal is not for me.
Goatpenis lol wtf omg
I put off listening to Goatpenis for years because of the name. Heard them eventually and loved them. A T-shirt purchase will never be on the cards.
Because of the goat or the penis?
I bought a t-shirt when Tom G did those Hellhammer gigs a few years ago. It was only the day after that I noticed the demon on the cover of Apocalyptic Raids has a fucken huge cock. Never spotted that before. Still, I'll be able to get my money back on ebay with it in mint condition in a few years, I suppose.
It's a helluva flute he has
Quote from: Bürggermeister on October 09, 2023, 09:25:54 AMBecause of the goat or the penis?
I bought a t-shirt when Tom G did those Hellhammer gigs a few years ago. It was only the day after that I noticed the demon on the cover of Apocalyptic Raids has a fucken huge cock. Never spotted that before. Still, I'll be able to get my money back on ebay with it in mint condition in a few years, I suppose.
Won't lie. It was entirely the penis.
Quote from: hellfire on October 09, 2023, 09:56:12 AMQuote from: Bürggermeister on October 09, 2023, 09:25:54 AMBecause of the goat or the penis?
I bought a t-shirt when Tom G did those Hellhammer gigs a few years ago. It was only the day after that I noticed the demon on the cover of Apocalyptic Raids has a fucken huge cock. Never spotted that before. Still, I'll be able to get my money back on ebay with it in mint condition in a few years, I suppose.
Won't lie. It was entirely the penis. I literally only noticed the Hellhamer penis now. Jaysus they were certainly kind to the chap.
Quote from: Don Gately on October 09, 2023, 08:49:55 AMGoatpenis lol wtf omg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEHGi5cuy1o
I saw them referred to as Go-at-penis a few years ago. I can't help but think of them that way ever since :laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 09, 2023, 08:56:21 PMI saw them referred to as Go-at-penis a few years ago. I can't help but think of them that way ever since :laugh:
:laugh: I'm like that with Strapping Young Lad ever since a lad back in the school days misspelled it on his bag and wondered why St.Raping Young Lad was so funny
:laugh:
SYL will forever be Raping Young Lads to me now.
Ah fuck, me and all :laugh:
That is absolute shite, how do they take it seriously? and Why is it these style of bands kind of look like hardcore gangster rappers? Do you even riff, bro?
The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner is the best track on Somewhere in Time.
'Stranger..' has a nostalgic value for me as the first Maiden song I ever heard but objectively I'd agree with you. Mind you, what an album all round..
I've leaned toward Deja Vu in recent years.
Yeah Deja Vu for me too, still crazy to me that they're not playing it on the SIT tour. I reckon Stranger in a Strange Land is the worst song on the album ???
For me, Alexander is the best song on SIT, but Runner is a very close second.
"Psychopathy Red" is one of Slayer's best songs. A short, sharp, New Rock to the bollox. Chef's kiss :abbath:
Quote from: Ducky on October 14, 2023, 12:05:34 AM"Psychopathy Red" is one of Slayer's best songs. A short, sharp, New Rock to the bollox. Chef's kiss :abbath:
Agreed. World Painted Blood is a great album, better than anything else they released after Seasons in the Abyss.
"World Painted Blood" is indeed a great album and "Psychopathy in red" is a great song. The single artwork is brilliant.
Yep, with you there lads. That one should've been their last record. What Slayer are supposed to sound like.
Might have to given it another listen, at the time it just sounded like another album in the vein of God Hates Us All or Christ Illusion, don't think I've had it on again since it was released
Yep.. agree..love world painted blood..its aged well too only had it on first time in a while recently
QuoteMight have to given it another listen, at the time it just sounded like another album in the vein of God Hates Us All or Christ Illusion, don't think I've had it on again since it was released
Definitely not. Largely written by Hanneman/Araya and traditional tunings adopted - none of that down tuned shit that plagued Diabolus, Christ and God Hates.
Also one of Lombardo's finest performances with Slayer, listen to those fills in Unit 731
Same as what Trev said there, in fact I'm not even sure I've heard it in full, certainly didn't buy it. Will have to have a nosy
Stranger in a strange land is probably top 5 Maiden songs ever for me. Somewhere in time is fantastic all round but Sea of madness, Wasted years, Stranger my tops
Quote from: Thorn on October 16, 2023, 03:56:37 PMSame as what Trev said there, in fact I'm not even sure I've heard it in full, certainly didn't buy it. Will have to have a nosy
There's a bit of filler on it (and Psychopathy Red is unfortunately sandwiched between the two worst songs), but there's four or five bangers, then three or four good tunes.
I agree with Pagan Saviour that they should've drawn a line under the band with it. Would have been a decent way to bow out.
The audio clipping turned me off World Painted Blood.
Some savage songs on it but it has this digital distortion from being pushed into the red.
Divine Intervention was the last great Slayer album.
Yeah it does sound a bit shit. Pity that Repentless has a decent sound but no songs.
I listened to Repentless once and all I remember is Tom Araya just shouting all the ways through it.
I can only imagine how shit Kerry King's band will be if he ever puts anything out.
Interesting point on King..... we've been hearing about it for years..... the King and Bostoph project.
"The Truth About Sea Food" reborn?
It will sell, it will be big because of the promo campaign but I doubt it will last. Unless of course its that bad a label won't pick it up. I think King needs the bigger band infrastructure to give him momentum. Starting out again (not from scratch) is a hard place for that ego to be. Also whats he gonna do, needless whammy dives and chugga chugga, bro metal, that ain't gonna work. Rob Flynn tried that for years and now his back catalogue post 1994 looks ridiculous!
The King Project needs a singer, depending on that does King Tune up? that ain't going to suit him either. He is quite a sloppy player, the precision riff bombing days are all pre 1998 or earlier.
He had run out of ideas on "Repentless" I doubt Gary Holt is interested, then I doubt Exodus will be able to play their last album live it was that 'produced'. Great album lads but no way your playing that live, you'll try. Whatever about backing tracks, this live needs a whole other level of technical sheen, that maybe the planet hasn't seen before! I'm pretty sure Gary Holt never learned a Slayer solo/lead, same run down the high B n E strings repeatedly. Its not that he can't play, learning that stuff was beyond his ability.
Anyway so..... King, Holt and Bostoph. But the power King had to dictate to Holt in Slayer might not pass over. Holt would want to stick with whats he's doing. That ain't King.
Get Adam Deuce on Bass. Now that is a bit more interesting.
King, Holt, Bostoph and Deuce...... Imagine Harley Flannagan singing on that.... will never happen.
It will probably be Chuck Billy..... he's cash hungry enough and has little respect for his own image in this regard.
That will sell.
Depends on Holt and King finding common ground. Don't be surprised if Rob Flynn pops up on a Kerry King / Bostoph project. 3 ego's so unchecked its bound to be promoted but totally crap. Weirdly might sell in the UK as they have always had a place for post "Burn My Eyes" Machine Head.
Could turn this into a Netflix show..... it would rival Bach and Scott Ian. Wait Scott Ian is on the album as well!
Might get a woman singer, Gluzman....however thats spelt. Then Live it would be like watching a human thumb/pitbull eyeing up a chuwawa from behind. Well on one side of the stage anyway..... I'd pay to see that (what &*% nope)! dogging for the modern music age!
I hope Gary Holt stays away.
He should stick with Exodus.
King might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
I'm a live setting I'm sure it would be fine.
You would know what to expect and if you buy a ticket just go along for the ride.
On an album though....
Quote from: Circlepit on October 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AMKing might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
Brilliant, Yes, has to play at least 5 Slayer songs..... then 3 off "The Truth About Sea Fish" album. Wait, was it "sea Fish" or "Sea Food"...Paul..... Paul
Good lord that post is way too detailed, wtf?
Think King has missed whatever boats were around at the time. It's been four - heading into five years since Slayer hung up their boots. There were A-Listers around at the time, rumours of Anselmo on vocals and so forth but there's no way that'd happen now.
I think as far as vocals go you're looking at a Z-Grade chump like Rob Dukes or something. And as for music, it's the leftovers from Repentless so toughman downtuned bottom of the barrel Machine Head worship.
King gets a bad wrap for his writing, which is fair. But he is capable of so much more, he practically wrote Divine which is a great record and has decent credits musically on the classic records.
I gave World Painted Blood and whatever the one before it is called another go a few weeks ago. They're fucking terrible. I don't understand the praise for WPB at all. To be honest, I'd take God Hates Us All over anything which came after it and it's largely shite too. King was a spent force 20 years ago. If he was going to do anything, he should have kept the momentum up when Slayer was winding down. It's been how many years now of doing fuck all other than talk? It's a hard life to get back into if you've been sitting at home on your hole for several years. He's done.
I think if King actually got musicians we looked up to or respected his project might get a bit of buzz going. I mean, Pat O'Brian briefly played with Slayer I'd be calling him up if I was King.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 17, 2023, 09:17:40 AMThink King has missed whatever boats were around at the time. It's been four - heading into five years since Slayer hung up their boots. There were A-Listers around at the time, rumours of Anselmo on vocals and so forth but there's no way that'd happen now.
I think as far as vocals go you're looking at a Z-Grade chump like Rob Dukes or something. And as for music, it's the leftovers from Repentless so toughman downtuned bottom of the barrel Machine Head worship.
King gets a bad wrap for his writing, which is fair. But he is capable of so much more, he practically wrote Divine which is a great record and has decent credits musically on the classic records.
Divine Intervention will be 30 years old next year.
30 years old.... I remember buying that on cassette. The Divine Intourvention video was savage from that tour.
Yeah got it on tape myself. I was chuffed with it as their peers were either wimping out or band wagoning, they really went all in. It's so heavy both musically and in terms of lyrical subject matter.
Stage set in the SFX was brilliant, MTV Head Bangers Ball in Belfast the following night was class as well (Broadcast the following weekend).
Weirdly I always think it mad that Slayer where in Connolly station, King had this cool leather jacket on, getting the train just like I do! weird, made them so accessible!
Quote from: Circlepit on October 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AMKing might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
Apparently King registered
BLOOD REIGN a while ago, https://metaladdicts.com/kerry-kings-new-band-is-called-blood-reign/ (https://metaladdicts.com/kerry-kings-new-band-is-called-blood-reign/)
I don't get all the hate for the last few SLAYER albums. I think they are deadly. Christ Illusion I think is better than World Painted or Repentless.
Quote from: KingHostile on October 17, 2023, 08:34:16 AMI doubt Exodus will be able to play their last album live it was that 'produced'.
Oh? I saw Exodus last year, and they played a few songs from Persona, and they sounded fine.
Ok Mower Man, I am 100% ok with being proved wrong on that one.
:laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Danny on October 17, 2023, 05:15:19 PMQuote from: Circlepit on October 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AMKing might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
Apparently King registered BLOOD REIGN a while ago, https://metaladdicts.com/kerry-kings-new-band-is-called-blood-reign/ (https://metaladdicts.com/kerry-kings-new-band-is-called-blood-reign/)
I don't get all the hate for the last few SLAYER albums. I think they are deadly. Christ Illusion I think is better than World Painted or Repentless.
I'd agree, I like both Christ Illusion and World Painted Blood. Wpb has a dark vibe to it
I love the title track of World Painted Blood, the rhythm of it is great. Production is a bit weak on it though.
And now for the controversial bit, Divine Intervention is Slayers second best album (Hell Awaits being number 1). Reign, South and Seasons are all rightful classics but there's something magic about Divine Intervention that keeps me going back to it, perhaps because it's the darkest the riffs have been since Hell Awaits.
Not quite second, but DI has always been my third favourite Slayer album (after RiB and SitA)
South Of Heaven is their best for me, nocontest. Reign In Blood I'd have at no. 4, Divine Intervention at 5 (joint second are Show No Mercy and Seasons In The Abyss). Always thought Hell Awaits was shite, apart from the title track.
Divine Intervention is the last one worth bothering with, though.
Quote from: Danny on October 17, 2023, 05:15:19 PMQuote from: Circlepit on October 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AMKing might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
I don't get all the hate for the last few SLAYER albums. I think they are deadly. Christ Illusion I think is better than World Painted or Repentless.
You think GoatPenis is awful but then you can't understand the hate for the last few Slayer albums? GP shits all over anything Slayer released post 94.
It is the controversial opinions thread I suppose - I can't get into Slayer at all. I tried a few times with different albums but none of it ever really did the trick for me beyond a couple of songs here and there. It's not an active dislike by any means but just can't understand the popularity of it.
Quote from: Born of Fire on October 18, 2023, 02:40:15 PMAnd now for the controversial bit, Divine Intervention is Slayers second best album (Hell Awaits being number 1). Reign, South and Seasons are all rightful classics but there's something magic about Divine Intervention that keeps me going back to it, perhaps because it's the darkest the riffs have been since Hell Awaits.
Wholeheartedly agree - just something magical about those 2 albums in particular. Hell Awaits is like when Slayer truly began - pure evil thrash, and Divine Intervention is when the classic era ended - I love the first 6 records, but something about the music and concepts on both those albums that sets them higher in my estimation than Reign, South or Seasons.
It's a shame Divine Intervention is so overlooked, it's equally as good as the preceding 4 classic records, and as Pagan Saviour said - an uncompromising and brutal record at a time when their peers were watering it down. I remember Kerry King at the time saying it was basically Reign in Blood part 2, but nobody cared. If he could channel that again, i'd be interested - but he's likely do go down the detuned crap route.
Quote from: mickO))) on October 18, 2023, 04:53:36 PMQuote from: Danny on October 17, 2023, 05:15:19 PMQuote from: Circlepit on October 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AMKing might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
I don't get all the hate for the last few SLAYER albums. I think they are deadly. Christ Illusion I think is better than World Painted or Repentless.
You think GoatPenis is awful but then you can't understand the hate for the last few Slayer albums? GP shits all over anything Slayer released post 94.
Dude, their music is unlistenable to me. SLAYER is my 2nd fav band ever. Even if fucking GOATPENIS were a deadly band, I couldn't take them seriously with such a stupid fucking name, unless they had an incredible sense of tongue in cheek humor, kinda like a Municipal Waste or Gama Bomb...but something tells me that is not the case here.
Cmon like even Goatdick, Goatcock, Goatcunt, Goatflaps or fuckin GOATSLAYER were better options for the craic, but no they went with fuckin GoatPENIS! lol ;D
Goatpenis is a great name, as is Goatsemen.
Goatsemen I'll give you, it could work. Goatflaps should strongly be considered for a brutal death metal band, it has a nice ring to it!
Goatflaps is awful.
All this goat talk is reminding me of Necrosadistic Goat Torture who were shit.
All this Goat talk has reminded me I haven't picked up the new Goatmoon yet.
Surprised no one's mentioned Archgoat yet. They're the best of the goat bands.
They're the GOAT of goats?
Back to Slayer. Show No Mercy and Hell Awaits are shonky NWOBHM. I could happily get by without everything except RIB and SOH. The songs on SOH are better but the poxy thin guitar and no-bass production is shite, it drains the agression out of the music. The sound of RIB is still fucking ferocious, they never topped it. SITA is, at best, alright but it is where it all started to turn to shite... which is where it stayed.
South of Heaven with the production of Reign In Blood would be a thing of utter beauty.
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on October 18, 2023, 09:38:31 PMSurprised no one's mentioned Archgoat yet. They're the best of the goat bands.
Goatlord reigns supreme
Unholy Goat Fucker....great band..... what a logo..... go on check em out!
Back to Slayer again.... sort of!!!
This is King's best guitar solo :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://youtu.be/07Y0cy-nvAg?si=cEcdKP68LXuda0Ep&t=204 (https://youtu.be/07Y0cy-nvAg?si=cEcdKP68LXuda0Ep&t=204)
Age restricted so can't embed it...
Goatpenis.
On the Slayer thing I like everything up to and including Seasons. Nothing beyond that and Seasons is patchy.
Can't forget Blasphamagoatachrist which contains a Goatpenis member (lol).
South of Heaven is peak Slayer for me. Reign in Blood is a close second, and I prefer Show No Mercy to Hell Awaits - I've listened to HA countless times, but I can't remember any of the tracks after At Dawn They Sleep. Not sure if the production is putting me off, it all sounds a bit samey to me.
Show No Mercy is like Kill 'Em All, very rough sounding but the enthusiasm gives it a charm.
Seasons is grand, but not on the same level as the 2 previous albums. I've never listened to Divine Intervention, I might give it a lash today.
While I've always liked Slayer, I don't think they've ever made a stonecold classic album, there's always two or three fillers for me
But when they're on form they're fucking great
Quote from: Danny on October 18, 2023, 05:50:22 PMQuote from: mickO))) on October 18, 2023, 04:53:36 PMQuote from: Danny on October 17, 2023, 05:15:19 PMQuote from: Circlepit on October 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AMKing might go out as KK's Slayer or something. That wouldn't surprise me.
I don't get all the hate for the last few SLAYER albums. I think they are deadly. Christ Illusion I think is better than World Painted or Repentless.
You think GoatPenis is awful but then you can't understand the hate for the last few Slayer albums? GP shits all over anything Slayer released post 94.
Dude, their music is unlistenable to me. SLAYER is my 2nd fav band ever. Even if fucking GOATPENIS were a deadly band, I couldn't take them seriously with such a stupid fucking name, unless they had an incredible sense of tongue in cheek humor, kinda like a Municipal Waste or Gama Bomb...but something tells me that is not the case here.
Cmon like even Goatdick, Goatcock, Goatcunt, Goatflaps or fuckin GOATSLAYER were better options for the craic, but no they went with fuckin GoatPENIS! lol ;D
I will somewhat agree that the name isn't great and as someone else mentioned it is why I will never own any GP shirts. I would put the name down to the band being very young when they formed and also the language barrier they may have been going for something else then the name just stuck. Goatsmegma is a lot worse than GoatPenis.
Quote from: open face surgery on October 18, 2023, 05:56:40 PMGoatpenis is a great name, as is Goatsemen.
Goatsemen are great it is just a shame the debut went under the radar because they delayed recording it for some many years that it was never going to live up to the hype.
Quote from: Thorn on October 18, 2023, 08:54:55 PMAll this Goat talk has reminded me I haven't picked up the new Goatmoon yet.
New album is very good patiently awaiting for the vinyl release.
Quote from: jobrok1 on October 19, 2023, 08:40:19 AMBack to Slayer again.... sort of!!!
This is King's best guitar solo :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://youtu.be/07Y0cy-nvAg?si=cEcdKP68LXuda0Ep&t=204 (https://youtu.be/07Y0cy-nvAg?si=cEcdKP68LXuda0Ep&t=204)
Age restricted so can't embed it...
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quality.
Also, there isn't a Slayer album I wouldn't listen to any day of the week, They're all class in their own way, and they're all SLAYERRRRRRR! :abbath:
I even enjoy undisputed attitude the odd time I stick it on.
Decade Of Agression is all ya really need with Slayer. Great live album, and like a "best of"
.
Live Undead, lads.
Everything from Haunting to Hell Awaits for me. After that I rarely listen.
Ah... REIGN I BLOOD?
Quote from: Don Gately on October 21, 2023, 10:00:36 PMAh... REIGN I BLOOD?
3/5. One dimensional and, while undeniably excellent and ruthlessly brutal in its execution - there's no let up, it's very limited in terms of dynamics and just an excercise in speed and repetition.
Not even in Slayer's top 3.
Nonsense. 5/5 album. A lean, mean, Killing machine.
Quote from: Carnage on October 22, 2023, 01:42:57 AMQuote from: Don Gately on October 21, 2023, 10:00:36 PMAh... REIGN I BLOOD?
3/5. One dimensional and, while undeniably excellent and ruthlessly brutal in its execution - there's no let up, it's very limited in terms of dynamics and just an excercise in speed and repetition.
Not even in Slayer's top 3.
Would it even make the top three thrash albums released that year? Kreator, Dark Angel, Nuclear Assault and Metallica would surely rank ahead of RIB. Could never understand why Show No Mercy isn't considered their greatest work. So many classics on one album.
These Slayer opinions are relentlessly fucking mental. Truly controversial.
Show No Mercy is absolutely class, just played it last night. Pure NWOBHM worship (see also: Kill 'Em All), nice bit of Venom speed to it. Great stuff altogether.
Reign In Blood is not just SLAYER's best album but easily one of the best metal albums overall ever.
Yes had it on today in the car. It's fantastic, AA averil had a recent podcast talking about it and it's legacy. Peace Sells, Reign, Puppets for me are the best albums of those bands careers.
The Legacy and Among the living the following year also. Not sure about Exodus I wouldn't be a big fan
Quotethrash albums released that year? Kreator, Dark Angel, Nuclear Assault
Drug talk. None of those bands are in the same league. Not to mention Reign in Blood's long lasting influence.
Game Over is top notch though
Quote from: Don Gately on October 22, 2023, 07:15:51 PMYes had it on today in the car. It's fantastic, AA averil had a recent podcast talking about it and it's legacy. Peace Sells, Reign, Puppets for me are the best albums of those bands careers.
The Legacy and Among the living the following year also. Not sure about Exodus I wouldn't be a big fan
Peace sells has a couple of songs better than anything on rust in peace but RIP is a better overall album
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on October 22, 2023, 08:29:45 PMQuotethrash albums released that year? Kreator, Dark Angel, Nuclear Assault
Drug talk. None of those bands are in the same league. Not to mention Reign in Blood's long lasting influence.
Pleasure to Kill, Game Over and especially Darkness Descends all have a ferocity that puts Reign in Blood in the ha'penny place. Obviously Slayer proved way more influential in the long run but if I'm taking any of those thrash classics at face value I'd have each and every one ahead of Reign in Blood. Master of Puppets too.
Quote from: Don Gately on October 22, 2023, 07:15:51 PMNot sure about Exodus I wouldn't be a big fan
Madness! I'd rate Exodus ahead of Anthrax, Testament & Nuclear Assault on the back of
Bonded by Blood &
Pleasures of the Flesh alone.
Bonded is one of the best thrash albums easily up there with Reign In Blood. & then Brain Dead from Pleasures I think is is one of the best & most catchy Thrash riffs ever.
After your Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer, give me Forbidden or Dark Angel over Anthrax, Exodus or Nuclear Assault. It's not that I've no time for them, but very little.
Forbidden or DA over those 3 without doubt. Enjoy a bit of Nuclear Assault but the other 2 do nothing for me.
Quote from: nukeabuse on October 22, 2023, 11:35:43 PMQuote from: Don Gately on October 22, 2023, 07:15:51 PMYes had it on today in the car. It's fantastic, AA averil had a recent podcast talking about it and it's legacy. Peace Sells, Reign, Puppets for me are the best albums of those bands careers.
The Legacy and Among the living the following year also. Not sure about Exodus I wouldn't be a big fan
Peace sells has a couple of songs better than anything on rust in peace but RIP is a better overall album
The shite cover songs on their first three albums always put a dent in any Megadeth vs Metallica/Slayer argument for me, really poor decision imo. Though My Last Words is probably my favourite Megadeth song.
Maybe a thrash thread is warranted, some good points and ridiculous points being made.
QuoteExodus
Might be controversial, but Exodus to me are ridiculous and epitomise the sillier side of thrash which I've no interest in. I recognise the brilliance and influence of Bonded, but then you've the whacky Fabulous Disaster and Pleasures which are both fun but silly. Have they done anything of worth since?? Force of Habit and Impact are the sound of a band that haven't a clue what to do with themselves, they burned out pretty quickly compared to their peers. Tempo is a solid record but the reunion fire was short lived, anything they did with Dukes was bottom barrel brain dead tough man metal, more recent material is as forgettable as anything Testament et al roll out on a two yearly basis. The notion that they should be included in the Big Four is nonsense to me. There's other sides to these things too, they never seemed to be able to get their shit together - even Holt's decade away with Slayer hindered the bands progress somewhat.
QuoteThe shite cover songs on their first three albums always put a dent in any Megadeth vs Metallica/Slayer argument for me
100%. Completely ridiculous choices that would've been better served as B-Sides. They absolutely stop those albums from being flawless.
QuoteForbidden or Dark Angel
Another complete agreement but both were only ever going to have niche interest - too sophisticated for a mass appeal. But outside of the Big four, both would be my go to.
I'd put Testament all day every day over Megadeth.
For me the song writing, the vocals, the actual riffs are far superior.
Rust In Peace is a bag of shite.
Exodus peaked with Tempo of the Damned, Bonded by Blood has some great music but is ruined by Baloff's fucking awful vocals
Overkill's Horrorscope is better than anything released by the lower tier thrash bands. It's also better than anything Anthrax ever released.
Anthrax can consider themselves very fortunate to be considered a big four act. I know they shifted a lot of Units but musically.........
Everyone always puts Exodus and Testament in the Big Four mix over Anthrax.
Apart from Slayer, the only other thrash band to remain any way consistent over the years has been Overkill.
They may not have been in the running back in the day, but they certainly deserve to be in the conversation at this stage.
Moreso than Exodus, at least.
Quote from: Circlepit on October 23, 2023, 10:11:12 AMRust In Peace is a bag of shite.
Now that is controversial! Incredible album that still sounds fresh no matter how many times I listen to it. I could never tire of that iconic razor sharp guitar tone paired with that unmistakable Megadeth playing style.
Game Over and Rust In Peace are my favourite thrash albums, so that's a foot in each camp, I suppose. Neither's perfect (Mr. Softee Theme and Dawn Patrol can fuck off) but they're each band's peak IMO.
Re: Exodus putting anything of worth out recently - Tempo is great, War Is My Shepherd alone brings it up. Nanking off The Human Condition is the best song Slayer never wrote.
Persistence Of Time is reason enough to have Anthrax in the Big 4, Got The Time aside it's perfect.
Agree that Baloff's vocals make Bonded by Blood shite, and Tempo is their peak. Rarely see him mentioned, but I think Tom Hunting is one of the best drummers of that era.
Dark Angel's Time Does Not Heal is my fave thrash album too.
A lot of revisionist shite talked about Anthrax. First 3 albums are great and Charlie Benante is the most underrated musician in the "Big 4".
Yep, Anthrax deserve their place, cheesy of course but let's be honest most of the second wave thrash stuff is completely interchangeable, Anthrax at least had their own identity, and I still rate Spreading the Disease and Among the Living highly.
I mean, people say Exodus should be in over them, I love Bonded by Blood but they've milked a 40 year career off one album.
Anthrax are only in the Big Four because of Among the Living, though?
On that basis the grouping should be expanded to a Big Five and Exodus included because of Bonded by Blood's influence on the genre.
Oh and I agree with the opinion that South of Heaven is the best Slayer record. And that Show No Mercy is great fun, NWOBHM worship taken to the extreme. Reign In Blood? Too much speed, not enough song writing. Whoever mentioned that is correct too.
State Of Euphoria and Persistence Of Time sold comparable numbers, if that's what we're talking about.
Which, if you're talking about who's in the Big 4 and who isn't - we are.
Quote from: Born of Fire on October 23, 2023, 12:33:42 PMQuote from: Circlepit on October 23, 2023, 10:11:12 AMRust In Peace is a bag of shite.
Now that is controversial! Incredible album that still sounds fresh no matter how many times I listen to it. I could never tire of that iconic razor sharp guitar tone paired with that unmistakable Megadeth playing style.
It's a bag of shite. Riff soup, it's like they had bits of songs and cobbled them together. If Metallica had written that album it would have been a more streamlined musical juggernaut.
Instead it's like a load of cats in a bag.
Overkill are razor sharp but the albums are too long.
Sodom are the best German thrash band.
I think Anthrax get slated because they didn't take it all too seriously - the bermuda shirts, comic imagery, I'm The Man and all the rap shite, etc. - but that first run with Belladonna was great, State Of Euphoria included (underrated album). There's probably more filler on their classic albums that the other 3 in the group, that may work against them but generally they deserve their spot there. I keep going on about Persistence but Intro To Reality going into Belly Of The Beast is sublime, perfect metal for me.
Rust In Peace isn't shite but it is very overrated. Four classic songs bookending the record (Dawn Patrol is an interlude) but the middle of the album has no hooks or interesting riffs.
When I first got it I thought the record started and ended well but the middle of it left no impression on me. I thought repeated listens would improve that, but it didn't.
The original mix is abysmal as well. Tinny and with no bass to speak of. People moan about the remix but it added some heaviness.
Just to be clear, the claim there is that there are "no hooks or interesting riffs" on Take No Prisoners, Five Magics, Poison Was The Cure, or Lucretia?
Madness :laugh: :abbath:
Yep. Should have just released the good songs as an EP and then it would be a high point of their career.
Rust In Peace is the finest album ever recorded.
It's certainly Megadave's best, no question.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on October 23, 2023, 06:19:52 PMThe original mix is abysmal as well. Tinny and with no bass to speak of. People moan about the remix but it added some heaviness.
Ah for fuck sake! Those remixes are the worst thing Dave did in his career. Completely sterilised the classic albums and killed all the atmosphere of the originals. Rust in Peace original mix guitar tone is unparalleled as far I'm concerned.
See I just don't get that. There's like no power or guts to the original Rust in Peace mix. I get not liking the remix, but to say the original one is good.....?
One exception to the general 'the Megadeth remixes sucked' opinion has to be the original remix done for KIMB (not the one done a few years ago) which makes the album sound so much more savage.
Jaysus, there's some bollix being spewed in here lately...
Quote from: Mr Barlow on October 23, 2023, 07:16:33 PMJaysus, there's some bollix being spewed in here lately...
True.
Rust in Peace is Megadeth's best album. And even though Metallica were a bit more consistent in the 80s, it's better than any single Metallica album.
Rust In Peace is a savage album. Don't understand how it's even up for debate. At least ye have moved on from being wrong about Slayer anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 23, 2023, 06:34:45 PMJust to be clear, the claim there is that there are "no hooks or interesting riffs" on Take No Prisoners, Five Magics, Poison Was The Cure, or Lucretia?
Madness :laugh: :abbath:
Total madness, the last minute of 'Poison Was The Cure' is rifftastic!!
Rust in Peace and Reign in Blood are both shite... Is this a metal forum?
TBH I'd rate Rust In Peace below every other Megadeth record prior to Risk.
Youthanasia destroys it on every level in terms of song writing and depth.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on October 23, 2023, 08:55:40 PMTBH I'd rate Rust In Peace below every other Megadeth record prior to Risk.
Youthanasia destroys it on every level in terms of song writing and depth.
I love Youthanasia - Mustaine's vocals are the best on that album compared to any other. Esp coming off the last album Countdown, which he ruins plenty of songs with his delivery (Sweating Bullets, psychotron etc).
Master of Puppets is a boring album. Battery and Master are great but after that I completely lose interest. I've even renamed the 3rd track to "The Song That Should Not Be"
Half of yiz are either deaf or off yizzer heads.
Slating Reign In Blood, Rust In Peace and Master Of Puppets.... mental carry on
Fellas hitting the crack pipe hard today!
Quote from: ldj on October 23, 2023, 01:28:45 AMQuote from: nukeabuse on October 22, 2023, 11:35:43 PMQuote from: Don Gately on October 22, 2023, 07:15:51 PMYes had it on today in the car. It's fantastic, AA averil had a recent podcast talking about it and it's legacy. Peace Sells, Reign, Puppets for me are the best albums of those bands careers.
The Legacy and Among the living the following year also. Not sure about Exodus I wouldn't be a big fan
Peace sells has a couple of songs better than anything on rust in peace but RIP is a better overall album
The shite cover songs on their first three albums always put a dent in any Megadeth vs Metallica/Slayer argument for me, really poor decision imo. Though My Last Words is probably my favourite Megadeth song.
My Last Words and Good Mourning Black Friday are the two best Megadeth songs, rest of the album is just ok
Quote from: Anvil on October 23, 2023, 09:14:18 PMMaster of Puppets is a boring album. Battery and Master are great but after that I completely lose interest. I've even renamed the 3rd track to "The Song That Should Not Be"
Careful now...
I'm going to have to stop looking at this thread, there's things being said here would have you burned at the stake in times gone by, utter heresy! Reign In Blood is the apex predator of the Metal world.
Since we're on about the Big Five, Six, whatever.
Best Slayer song is Ghost of War. I'd have South of Heaven slightly above Reign in Blood.
Peace Sells, So Far... and Rust are far better than everything else Megadave did.
Spreading the Disease just edges out ATL for Anthrax's finest moment.
The only things wrong with Force of Habit are the two cover versions and the artwork.
The Thing That Should Not Be is my favorite Metallica song.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on October 23, 2023, 08:55:40 PMTBH I'd rate Rust In Peace below every other Megadeth record prior to Risk.
Youthanasia destroys it on every level in terms of song writing and depth.
Halls are being built for you to leave.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 23, 2023, 11:45:01 PMThe Thing That Should Not Be is my favorite Metallica song.
Not quite my favorite Metallica song, but my favorite Hammett solo.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 23, 2023, 11:45:01 PMThe Thing That Should Not Be is my favorite Metallica song.
Mine too. It's also the song that got me into metal.
SFSGSW, Peace Sells, Rust In Peace and Youthanasia are all killer albums...the cover songs are pointless as fuck but sure look.
Even after 25 years + listening to RIP I never get bored of the 'hits' like Holy Wars and Hangar 18.
Never took to Countdown and KIMB as much.
Can't believe the comments on Reign In Blood..Jesus :laugh: Everything up to and including South Of Heaven is perfect and even though I don't listen to Seasons as much I still love it from my youth. Seeing the video for Seasons on headbangers ball for the first time will always be a lasting memory for me.
Never got into Anthrax, Exodus..always thought they were too goofy. Overkill another that never clicked with me.
Agree with The thing that should not be is epic. Weird, strange vibe from that song. Remember when this came out that song scared the shit out of 12 year old me. That and Sanitarium are the ones that endure.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 23, 2023, 11:45:01 PMThe Thing That Should Not Be is my favorite Metallica song.
100%. It's between Battery and Dyers Eve for 2nd place.
Purcell and I definitely talked about covering TTTSNB at some stage
MOP is a great album but the production saps a lot of the excitement out of it. RTL is still Metallica's masterpiece.
If you took the best songs off the Loads and put them on one CD it would be the second best Metallica album.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on October 24, 2023, 09:56:20 AMMOP is a great album but the production saps a lot of the excitement out of it. RTL is still Metallica's masterpiece.
If you took the best songs off the Loads and put them on one CD it would be the second best Metallica album.
This thread has descended into madness. Next you'll be saying that Diabolus in Musica is Slayer's best album.
Metallica lost the plot after AJFA but those first three albums are classics. I personally think Kill 'Em All is their best, with Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets tied for second. The cracks were starting to show with Justice, but they were still writing great tunes. The Black album and everything after were made by a band who were a shadow of their former selves.
Wouldn't be the biggest fan of Ride the Lightning either but I do prefer it to MOP. Give me Kill 'em All and Justice any day of the week.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on October 24, 2023, 09:30:38 AMQuote from: Eoin McLove on October 23, 2023, 11:45:01 PMThe Thing That Should Not Be is my favorite Metallica song.
100%. It's between Battery and Dyers Eve for 2nd place.
This, completely lol. Maybe blackened in for the tie there too but TTTSNB likely my favourite too. I can't think of any better at least.
Listening to Famous Monsters and American Psycho a lot lately and definitely prefer Graves era Misfits than Danzig era.
That said I do love Walk Among us, Earth AD and static age but there's something magic about the Graves albums.
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on October 24, 2023, 10:16:41 AMMetallica lost the plot after AJFA but those first three albums are classics. I personally think Kill 'Em All is their best, with Ride the Lightning, and Master of Puppets tied for second. The cracks were starting to show with Justice, but they were still writing great tunes. The Black album and everything after were made by a band who were a shadow of their former selves.
Actually I'd argue that they lost the plot after the 2 Load albums. The Black Album is technically one of the best sounding albums out there in terms of production, so clear and powerful and there is some quality songs out there. I have a soft spot for the Load era too, it felt like a natural evolution from the black album but it should have been one album. After that is where they lost the plot, a band with a serious identity crisis trying to recapture a sound they no longer had any interest in.
Quote from: LLR on October 24, 2023, 10:20:59 AMListening to Famous Monsters and American Psycho a lot lately and definitely prefer Graves era Misfits than Danzig era.
That said I do love Walk Among us, Earth AD and static age but there's something magic about the Graves albums.
The Graves era is brilliant, the vocal layering and harmonies really make those albums stand out.
The Danzig era is still better though. Just the attitude, delivery and the songs themselves.
Reload was such a disappointment for me. Load was different and it stood out. Should have had songs cut out but still it was great. Putting out Reload was just pointless. More of the same.
I don't care that it was the same sessions blah blah. Fuck off.
Puppets is the pinnacle for me for metal. It's so tight and heavy.
Just the intro to the title track alone, that riff. It"s crushing and TIGHT!.
Motorbreath, Phantom Lord, No Remorse, Creeping Death, Blackened and Harvester Of Sorrow are the other top songs I couldn't live without.
One is on the same level as Enter Sandman now. Drop it from any set forever.
Yup agree One, Sandman, Nothing matters, Sad but true would rather I never hear again. Load is OK, some good stuff but some terrible songs, Reload is a hot mess. They still play Fuel live these days, wtf is that about. Black album probably settles into 4/5 album. Just because there are w Couple of fillers in there. Through the never, holier than thou, Misery.
First 4 are 5/5 albums.
People shit on Reload far too much. I prefer Load but even so there's some great songs on Reload that are among their best - Fuel, Memory Remains, Where The Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric.
Just because it's called Reload people seem to think it's an outtakes album but it isn't.
So, Fuel a good song, middle four songs on RiP not good. Think I understand better now; we just got very, very different DNA!
Load and Reload is where all four wheels had well and truly come off.
There was no quality control anymore. Everything single musical idea they came up with from Load onward was put into a song, regardless of whether it was any good, just OK or total dogshit.
The best they came up with post Black album is 'I Disappear' from the MI:II soundtrack. That song is a quality rocker.
Also! On a side note.
What's with all the live b-sides?
Why would anyone in their right mind buy one of their physical singles anymore.
Few tunes on Load that are much better than I, Disappear and I don't even care about Metallica.
Fuel is a fuckin godawful song. Only bettered in the depths of shite by The Memory Remains.
I like both of those songs and don't think much of I Disappear! I did a Load/Reload compilation lately and they both made it. Some good stuff on those albums but definitely only an album's worth of good material between them.
I disappear is shite.
I'd love to hear the Presidio sessions from the St Anger days.
They were probably the same type stuff as Load.
Those Presidio demos are on Youtube.
King Nothing
Until it Sleeps
Hero of the Day
Bleeding Me
Outlaw Torn
Where the Wild Things Are
Unforgiven 2
Fixxxer
Made this playlist for myself years ago and find I come back to it more than the classics these days, could also be because I've played that stuff so much I never get the urge to put it on
8 songs, around 50 minutes, all of a similar enough vibe that it's more coherent without shite like Ronnie or Prince Charming being thrown in between the better stuff
Fuel
2x4
The Memory Remains
Hero Of The Day
Where The Wild Things Are
King Nothing
Carpe Diem Baby
Until It Sleeps
Fixxxer
The Outlaw Torn
Most of the obvious ones are there, it flows nicely enough for me.
Oh good lord man, 2x4, Fuel fuck it I'm out
We'll one thing is for damn sure!
'tallica, Megadave and the rest of the Big Four and extended friends have certainly divided a multitude of opinions.
I can't believe I'm in a thread where The Thing That Should Not Be is bad and Fixxxer is good.
I find the Metallica conversations to be the most tedious thing that we all engage in semi-regular. There is no take we haven't heard before. But criticizing albums like MOP as having sterile production or whatever else has been said the last few pages - you've just started to overthink it all cause of overexposure and overfamiliarity and probably boredom with Metallica in general.
5mins into Fixxxer, still absolutely dogshit and boring, like 85% of the songs from this era people have tried to convince themselves are actually worthy of merit.
Quote from: Squigs on October 25, 2023, 09:23:42 AMBut criticizing albums like MOP as having sterile production or whatever else has been said the last few pages - you've just started to overthink it all cause of overexposure and overfamiliarity and probably boredom with Metallica in general.
No, I've always thought MOP had inadequate production, especially if you compare it to the production job on RTL which really completes the vibe of that record. It seems pretty obvious to me.
Here's one possibly: the Metallica version of "Helpless" is not only vastly superior to Diamond Heads original, but it also features Hammet's best solo.
Honestly, the Black Album is a load of bollocks. AJFA is great, and is the end of that band for me.
I heard the Metallica version first so that's the definitive one for me, yep I prefer it. See also: Breadfan.
That EP is seriously up there. Small hours, helpless the Misfits fucking class.
Megadeth and Anthrax are shite.
Anthrax are questionable, but Megadeth? seriously? This fuckin Thread man, certainly lives up to it's name. Controversial opinions to the point I can't believe bands or albums I consider not just classics but archetypes are completely lost on people. I guess it's healthy debate though at least!
The endless Big 4 THRASH debate though; while overdone to death, is a never-ending source of surprise & curiosity for me at least, someone mentioned there a few posts back doing a devoted Thrash thread, I think it's a good idea! Because honestly like, for me...Metallica, SLAYER & Megadeth are the 3 masters easily, but more in the way of being my favorite bands I listen to the most & because of the legend & archtype-ness? of them...but when it really comes down to it, if you are really into Thrash metal & technical guitar playing & quality songwriting, we all know or should know at least that bands like VOIVOD, KREATOR, Dark Angel, SADUS, CORONER, Heathen, Holy Terror, Exorder, Anacrusis etc were/are doing much more interesting things musically sometimes.
Not to mention, to this day, I am STILL finding obscure late 80's/early 90's 3rd rate Thrash albums that went under the radar, & they are fucking savagely good. I can't get enough of it, I try to have an old album I've never heard before to listen to every week.
Megadeth, good musicians and of course deserve the big 4 label. Just vocals and lyrics are too much, even at 13 I lost interest. I'd listen to the lesser Slayer albums before a good Megadeth one.
Anthrax just plain and simple shite though.
Edit: all those bands you mention at the end are totally above Megadeth artistically in my book.
I can live better with a metaller flat out not liking Megadeth than I can with someone who only likes half of RiP :laugh: :abbath:
Between The Buried and Me are more metal than most bands.
That's like saying vaginas are more masculine than most dicks.
Quote from: open face surgery on October 30, 2023, 11:31:20 PMThat's like saying vaginas are more masculine than most dicks.
Graham Linehan is trying to come to terms with this in a corner somewhere
Dunno how controversial this is really,but Samhain is Danzig's best band
I've only heard the one Samhain album (November Coming Fire) and it was shite, so I'd have to disagree. But I prefer the first 3 Danzig albums to any Misfits, dunno if that's controversial or not.
Ah lads completely different bands. Misfits are fantastic and Danzigs first 4 imo are also great. Even though perhaps controversially Danzig 1 is the weakest.
All Danzig stuff is brilliant. Static Age is a desert island disc for sure.
While we're on The Misfits, the Michael Graves era is my favourite of theirs.
Even though I have every cd, are Tool possibly up their own polyrythm hole with about 3-4 good tunes in reality?
Quote from: The Heretic on November 09, 2023, 06:48:04 AMEven though I have every cd, are Tool possibly up their own polyrythm hole with about 3-4 good tunes in reality?
YES!
Static age by the misfits rocks, the collections 1 and 2 are desert island discs defo.
First 4 Danzig album are pretty good, Danzig 4 has some brilliant moments and I always liked the darkness of "....how the gods kill", Danzig 2 and 3 are probably the best, the first one does have "Twist of Cain" and "Mother" on it, both heavy on the MTV play list for quite a while.
Quote from: The Heretic on November 09, 2023, 06:48:04 AMEven though I have every cd, are Tool possibly up their own polyrythm hole with about 3-4 good tunes in reality?
This isn't controversial!
It's just a fact.
Quote from: The Heretic on November 09, 2023, 06:48:04 AMEven though I have every cd, are Tool possibly up their own polyrythm hole with about 3-4 good tunes in reality?
I always find a full album of theirs a bit of a slog to get through, but can happily listen to all the individual songs as one offs. Although the stuff I checked out from the last album sounded pretty indistinguishable from the two before it
I would agree with that except for Ænima which is a whopper of an album. Maybe you could ditch some of the interludes but I can live with them too.
I gave Undertow a spin for the first time in years recently, enjoyed it more than ever. The last one was complete dogshit though, and the previous one was no great shakes either. I think they've just bought into their own hype at this stage, throw out any old shite every decade or so, knowing it'll be lapped up.
Fear inoculum is a very sttong album. 10,000 days is boring, Lareralus and Aemina are great. Undertow good.
The "Tool fan" is a tired, exaggerated trope, like crossfitters or vegans being incapable of announcing themselves. Sure, some are annoying, most aren't, no worse than fans of any other thing.
Glenroe fans are the worst. Oh really, Miley's affair with Imelda ties back to the Fibbonaci Sequence? How fascinating... YAWN!
Fear Inoculum is so laughably shit. I felt like I was living in a parallel crazy universe when it came out and everyone was falling over themselves to praise it.
Anyways, Aenima is the one for me that I'll always end up returning to, but I like them all well enough - Fear Innoculum didn't really hit for me enough to ever go back to it much.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on November 10, 2023, 03:01:47 PMFear Inoculum is so laughably shit. I felt like I was living in a parallel crazy universe when it came out and everyone was falling over themselves to praise it.
Yep. Sounds like a Dealz version of Lateralus.
I will always love Aenemia and Lateralus (and that cover they did of No Quarter), but Tool have to be one of the most overrated bands to ever exist.
QuoteFear Inoculum is so laughably shit. I felt like I was living in a parallel crazy universe when it came out and everyone was falling over themselves to praise it.
I got slaughtered last time I gave out about Tool fans but this is partially what I'm talking about. No question about it Undertow, Aenima and Lateralus are classics but there's a sizeable cohort out there that think the band can do no wrong.
There's a lad in work that epitomises this. Only listens to Tool or any of Maynards projects and they're the only bands he'll go see. Infuriating trying to have a music conversation with him as everything gets referenced against Tool.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on November 10, 2023, 07:09:41 PMQuoteFear Inoculum is so laughably shit. I felt like I was living in a parallel crazy universe when it came out and everyone was falling over themselves to praise it.
I got slaughtered last time I gave out about Tool fans but this is partially what I'm talking about. No question about it Undertow, Aenima and Lateralus are classics but there's a sizeable cohort out there that think the band can do no wrong.
There's a lad in work that epitomises this. Only listens to Tool or any of Maynards projects and they're the only bands he'll go see. Infuriating trying to have a music conversation with him as everything gets referenced against Tool.
Have you ever been to the Tool subreddit? Holy fucking shit, those lads and lassies are so far up their own hole they must tickle their own tonsils.
Show was fantastic last year my concert of the year, and I had never listened to Fear Inoculum before the gig. It's great. And I'm not a massive Tool fan at all.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on November 10, 2023, 03:01:47 PMFear Inoculum is so laughably shit. I felt like I was living in a parallel crazy universe when it came out and everyone was falling over themselves to praise it.
I was one of those praising it to high heaven and I still think the first 4 songs are very good but the last 3 are shit now that enough time has passed. The last song especially sounds like they recorded it in a different session altogether and had fuck all else left so tacked it on to cobble together enough minutes to release something. It's about equal to 10000 days, which has always left me a bit flat too. First 3 albums are where it's at for them.
Also the mere mention of the Tool reddit makes me want to claw my eyes out
Quote from: Don Gately on November 11, 2023, 08:56:56 PMShow was fantastic last year my concert of the year, and I had never listened to Fear Inoculum before the gig. It's great. And I'm not a massive Tool fan at all.
Agreed, great show in Dublin, saw them a week later in Antwerp (Sportpaleis Arena), crowd were way more sedate. The Fear Inoculum songs hold up great live. Probably the biggest fear with a new album is what songs will get dropped from the setlist to make way for the new ones.
I never got Tool in general!
He never got acquainted with his TooL
He's a secret fan of tool. I've seen him on the dance floor.
I never got into them. I remember seeing their music videos in the 90s and thinking those were amazing.
The new Godflesh is pretty damn dull to my ears. Have to put this here seeing as seemingly everyone else is lauding it but I'm hearing way more Jesu than Godflesh until the last couple of tracks which channel a sliver of that old urban decay they captured way back when. I'm culling albums as I pare the year's intake down to a favourite twenty and this is gone today. I even took the fucker to bed and got nothing but a good sleep. Bah.
Quote from: hellfire on November 13, 2023, 09:51:01 AMI never got into them. I remember seeing their music videos in the 90s and thinking those were amazing.
Yeah, made a splash with the videos in the 90s.... the album artwork is great (goggles 3D artwork) but kinda dropped off. Could be the silk pjs and wine killing the drive. ... that last album was so bland! What do they have to prove?
There was a bit of Metallica-esque 90s vibe by them towards their fans for a while as well.
Yeah Adam Jones (Tool's guitarist) is responsible for the videos.
He's a better animator than guitarist for sure.
I like Godflesh, Streetcleaner fantastic, an album came out a few years ago that I liked a lot for about a week, world lit only by fire but I really struggle with them now. Want to like them but find it hard.
I fuckin love Godflesh. Ye are just listening to it wrong
Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2023, 04:51:57 PMI fuckin love Godflesh. Ye are just listening to it wrong
I've been seeing a lot of Godflesh opinions lately online but I am in agreement only with you there and am keeping the head down otherwise :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2023, 04:51:57 PMI fuckin love Godflesh. Ye are just listening to it wrong
Never listened to Godflesh for some reason, despite loving SYL and knowing they were a massive influence on Devin
Went to check them out at Damnation last year, and had to leave after about three songs, between the noise level, the distortion, the feedback, it was all a bit much for me.
Someone told me that it's supposed to make you feel a bit uncomfortable, but after two days on the beer I was in no state for being challenged that way
Quote from: Trev on November 15, 2023, 07:32:16 PMQuote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2023, 04:51:57 PMI fuckin love Godflesh. Ye are just listening to it wrong
Never listened to Godflesh for some reason, despite loving SYL and knowing they were a massive influence on Devin
Went to check them out at Damnation last year, and had to leave after about three songs, between the noise level, the distortion, the feedback, it was all a bit much for me.
Someone told me that it's supposed to make you feel a bit uncomfortable, but after two days on the beer I was in no state for being challenged that way
:'(
Thought their gig in Dublin last year was one of the best things I've ever seen and had less feedback than I anticipated. Had gotten through over 2 decades of solidly buzzing off them on CD before that without ever seeing them. Can't say enough good things about them tbh
I love that about them, isn't that what makes em'? The use of feedback, tone, distortion, delay, volume, riffs, beats and dare I say melody.
Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2023, 07:59:49 PMQuote from: Trev on November 15, 2023, 07:32:16 PMQuote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2023, 04:51:57 PMI fuckin love Godflesh. Ye are just listening to it wrong
Never listened to Godflesh for some reason, despite loving SYL and knowing they were a massive influence on Devin
Went to check them out at Damnation last year, and had to leave after about three songs, between the noise level, the distortion, the feedback, it was all a bit much for me.
Someone told me that it's supposed to make you feel a bit uncomfortable, but after two days on the beer I was in no state for being challenged that way
:'(
Thought their gig in Dublin last year was one of the best things I've ever seen and had less feedback than I anticipated. Had gotten through over 2 decades of solidly buzzing off them on CD before that without ever seeing them. Can't say enough good things about them tbh
What he said. I've been a fan since Streetcleaner but never saw them until last year and they blew me away. Until Swans a few months ago it was the loudest gig I'd been to but it lost nothing for it. The pummelling volume was part of the draw, part of the experience, and a definite plus.
That Swans gig was fucking spectacular too. I've never seen anything like it
Same. It'll never be topped for me. Can't see myself bothering with anything else again unless it's something spectacular. I'm tempted by Enslaved but Opium is too small a venue for them, if it was upgraded I'd consider it.
I saw Swans at Chaos Descends several years ago. It was fucking awful shite :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on November 15, 2023, 04:51:57 PMI fuckin love Godflesh. Ye are just listening to it wrong
I know you're right, I must try harder.
Godflesh have a few great albums, but everything they released after Selfless is average at best. The comeback albums were grand, but I haven't listened to them in years.
Hymns wants a word. So do the last three
As does Songs of Love and Hate
Fuck I should've had that in there. Put it down to human error.
Not like Godflesh who never put a foot wrong
Quote from: astfgyl on November 16, 2023, 07:55:39 PMFuck I should've had that in there. Put it down to human error.
Not like Godflesh who never put a foot wrong
They never topped Pure.
I'm going to go back to listen to the albums after Selfless, at the time I found their other releases good but a bit patchy.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on November 16, 2023, 02:34:15 AMI saw Swans at Chaos Descends several years ago. It was fucking awful shite :laugh:
Prob far from optimal live environment for Swans tbh. Only saw them once, not at a time I was a particular fan, but a really cool venue in Paris and it was quality, a real experience.
I thought the music sucked so I don't think the venue would make much difference.
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on November 17, 2023, 08:57:36 AMQuote from: astfgyl on November 16, 2023, 07:55:39 PMFuck I should've had that in there. Put it down to human error.
Not like Godflesh who never put a foot wrong
They never topped Pure.
I'm going to go back to listen to the albums after Selfless, at the time I found their other releases good but a bit patchy.
Pure and Streetcleaner are the best for me but I love pretty much all of it. Some took more time than others to click, Us and Them especially, but I love that one too after some time.
Quote from: astfgyl on November 17, 2023, 07:13:10 PMQuote from: Massey Ferguson on November 17, 2023, 08:57:36 AMQuote from: astfgyl on November 16, 2023, 07:55:39 PMFuck I should've had that in there. Put it down to human error.
Not like Godflesh who never put a foot wrong
They never topped Pure.
I'm going to go back to listen to the albums after Selfless, at the time I found their other releases good but a bit patchy.
Pure and Streetcleaner are the best for me but I love pretty much all of it. Some took more time than others to click, Us and Them especially, but I love that one too after some time.
us and them is the only album I don't like by them. I just can't get into it at all. I've tried and it just doesn't click. I love the new album, think it's great!
Quote from: astfgyl on November 16, 2023, 01:52:26 PMHymns wants a word. So do the last three
I love Hymns. A departure for sure, has cool riffs!
Heard a Godflesh song back in school, thought it was utter shit. Avoided them ever since.
You're missing out, there's a fair bit of variety in their monotony. There's no single tune that sums them up
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on November 18, 2023, 05:38:32 PMHeard a Godflesh song back in school, thought it was utter shit. Avoided them ever since.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgtvGkabBTgiCZSONIAEq6D7jgz0bMQl_&feature=shared
Here, if this doesn't whet the appetite it probably isn't for you
Came off the "where it all turned to shit" discussion to post this - St. Anger is better than the fucking black album!
Don't be so silly.
I feckin will be silly ya big girls blouse!
I despise St. Anger slightly less than I despise the black album and I'm not afraid to say it.
The Black Album is a classic.
A CLASSIC!
I disagree, and will continue to do so regardless of how many capital letters you use.
Its a fucking borefest.
A BOREFEST!
I'm not convinced. The capitals almost had me convinced, I'll admit it, but no. On reflection, it remains a cLAsSIc.
:laugh: :laugh:
We'll agree to disagree.
Happy new year anyway ya bastard.
And many happy returns tipped with the fires of hell.
Nonsense!
I'd put the Black Album ahead of everything they shat out after it.
There was literally no filtering or quality control process involved. It was as if they tried to include or make a song out of single shite riff that farted its way out of an amp.
Quote from: jobrok1 on January 01, 2024, 12:22:51 AMNonsense!
I'd put the Black Album ahead of everything they shat out after it.
There was literally no filtering or quality control process involved. It was as if they tried to include or make a song out of single shite riff that farted its way out of an amp.
The 2 Load albums have some of my absolute favourite Metallica songs on them. Both are also coherent albums. The problem they've had since going back to trying to record thrash albums is that the songs haven't been built around a coherent idea and dont flow naturally, they feel like a collection of random riffs stapled together and the arse dragged out of the run time.
The Black album... Played it to death for 2 years and have rarely returned to it since 93 or so. Whilst Rtl Mop and aAjfa particularly are regularly revisited.. It hasn't aged well. Load is OK reload isn't everything else pants. Happy new year lads
Fuckin mental talk. The Black Album is one of the best albums ever released across all genres. The songs are incredibly memorable and catchy, its a monument for heavy rock/heavy metal and a great starting point for anyone first getting into metal because it has such an incredible scope in the way of crossover appeal for anyone. a bona fide classic and one of the best selling records of all time for a reason. IT FUCKING RULES!
Also, while I am at it, being the thread for it I guess. I think all the Metallica albums are great. I know Load fucking inside out. Until It Sleeps, Bleeding Me, The Outlaw Torn are among my most listened to songs ever. The opening seconds/riff of The Thorn Within (a song that never seems to be mentioned) also has haunted me since the late 90s. I could never understand how anyone that I knew who liked Metallica were post black album haters, just because it was more rock, when these people I knew were also rock music fans, into bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden etc...so wtf is the problem then?
I honestly think after they released And Justice that they HAD to do something different, because as much as I love them to this day, I think its as far as they were/are able to progress musically. I think this is fairly obvious because And Justice remains their most progressive album with the most complex songs I doubt they will ever top now.
I even fucking like St. Anger. But I think the only thing the band ever did wrong was let it go out sounding like it does. Its just unfathomable anyone other than Lars himself could have thought the drums were in anyway sounding good like. it's astonishing really it happened. and even as a die hard fan of the band, I cannot believe that he has such a stubborn ego that he has refused to release an official remaster of the album. Honestly like they really need to release an official remaster of St. Anger that fixes the drums as well as an official remaster of And Justice that fixes the bass.
Whatever. Metallica rule and fuck off
Happy new year bastards
Quote from: Danny on January 01, 2024, 03:12:58 AMFuckin mental talk. The Black Album is one of the best albums ever released across all genres. The songs are incredibly memorable and catchy, its a monument for heavy rock/heavy metal and a great starting point for anyone first getting into metal because it has such an incredible scope in the way of crossover appeal for anyone. a bona fide classic and one of the best selling records of all time for a reason. IT FUCKING RULES!
Also, while I am at it, being the thread for it I guess. I think all the Metallica albums are great. I know Load fucking inside out. Until It Sleeps, Bleeding Me, The Outlaw Torn are among my most listened to songs ever. The opening seconds/riff of The Thorn Within (a song that never seems to be mentioned) also has haunted me since the late 90s. I could never understand how anyone that I knew who liked Metallica were post black album haters, just because it was more rock, when these people I knew were also rock music fans, into bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden etc...so wtf is the problem then?
I honestly think after they released And Justice that they HAD to do something different, because as much as I love them to this day, I think its as far as they were/are able to progress musically. I think this is fairly obvious because And Justice remains their most progressive album with the most complex songs I doubt they will ever top now.
I even fucking like St. Anger. But I think the only thing the band ever did wrong was let it go out sounding like it does. Its just unfathomable anyone other than Lars himself could have thought the drums were in anyway sounding good like. it's astonishing really it happened. and even as a die hard fan of the band, I cannot believe that he has such a stubborn ego that he has refused to release an official remaster of the album. Honestly like they really need to release an official remaster of St. Anger that fixes the drums as well as an official remaster of And Justice that fixes the bass.
Whatever. Metallica rule and fuck off
Happy new year bastards
Re. - "I think all the Metallica albums are great".
Lulu lad, fucking Lulu.
Well as I just said in the other thread, Lulu is not a Metallica album, it's a Lou Reed album so I judge it as such. But yeah I do agree it's mostly wank. but at the same time I'm not a Lou Reed fan and don't really "get" his work, so whatever.
Now if they did a Tom Waits & Metallica record, or like Morrissey & Metallica, that just might be fucking epic.
Bar a couple of songs I've always found Emperor a bit shit.
Quote from: Danny on January 01, 2024, 03:12:58 AMI could never understand how anyone that I knew who liked Metallica were post black album haters, just because it was more rock, when these people I knew were also rock music fans, into bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden etc...so wtf is the problem then?
My problem is that if I want to listen to rock music, or bluesy rock then I'll go listen to some quality bands who are already well established in that genre. Metallica's efforts were just a bit flaccid for my liking.
I'm sure the cutting of their hair and the sudden wearing of makeup didn't do much to help their thrash fans support them at the time either.
Quote from: Born of Fire on January 01, 2024, 06:28:09 PMBar a couple of songs I've always found Emperor a bit shit.
Arrrggh! This can't stand.
Quote from: Circlepit on January 01, 2024, 09:58:01 PMQuote from: Born of Fire on January 01, 2024, 06:28:09 PMBar a couple of songs I've always found Emperor a bit shit.
Arrrggh! This can't stand.
Yes that's a tough one to take.
Don't want to quote Danny's post because of the length of it but great shout with the opening of Thorn Within being absolutely fantastic. I really like both of those Load Albums, the first being better but had they let it out as a double at the time, Reload wouldn't get such a hard time as a disc 2 as it did being standalone. Good luck to em after that though, the rest is poor. I like a few tunes off Hardwired and 72 Seasons but not enough to go listen to them often or anything.
It's a real testimony to the first 5 albums that we still talk about Metallica tbh, given what came after. They are 5 great albums.
Quote from: Circlepit on January 01, 2024, 09:58:01 PMQuote from: Born of Fire on January 01, 2024, 06:28:09 PMBar a couple of songs I've always found Emperor a bit shit.
Arrrggh! This can't stand.
It's not that I think they're complete wank, it's just that listening to their output compared to that of their peers of the time I personally get none of the same excitement I did from listening to their contemporaries, a small handful of quality songs is plenty for me when it comes to Emperor
Quote from: astfgyl on January 01, 2024, 10:34:44 PMQuote from: Circlepit on January 01, 2024, 09:58:01 PMQuote from: Born of Fire on January 01, 2024, 06:28:09 PMBar a couple of songs I've always found Emperor a bit shit.
Arrrggh! This can't stand.
Yes that's a tough one to take.
Don't want to quote Danny's post because of the length of it but great shout with the opening of Thorn Within being absolutely fantastic. I really like both of those Load Albums, the first being better but had they let it out as a double at the time, Reload wouldn't get such a hard time as a disc 2 as it did being standalone. Good luck to em after that though, the rest is poor. I like a few tunes off Hardwired and 72 Seasons but not enough to go listen to them often or anything.
It's a real testimony to the first 5 albums that we still talk about Metallica tbh, given what came after. They are 5 great albums.
That's it exactly.
That method of song writing using a clip board and grabbing riffs from here and there is the biggest killer for me on the latter day stuff as well as the inability to edit.
Quote from: Danny on January 01, 2024, 05:21:35 PMLulu is not a Metallica album, it's a Lou Reed album so I judge it as such.
UTTER BOLLIX!
Lulu was not a Lou Reed album with Metallica as his backing band.
It is a collaboration album between both and was marketed as such from the start of its tragic inception.
Reed wrote all the lyrics, but the band were 100% involved in the music with Reed.
And if you think for one second that it was Lou Reed's idea to seek out Metallica for the collaboration, then you are truly deluded.
I have no doubt in my mind that the whole debacle was a pathetic brain fart from either Ulrich or Hetfield.
Quote from: jobrok1 on January 02, 2024, 09:36:24 AMQuote from: Danny on January 01, 2024, 05:21:35 PMLulu is not a Metallica album, it's a Lou Reed album so I judge it as such.
UTTER BOLLIX!
Lulu was not a Lou Reed album with Metallica as his backing band.
It is a collaboration album between both and was marketed as such from the start of its tragic inception.
Reed wrote all the lyrics, but the band were 100% involved in the music with Reed.
And if you think for one second that it was Lou Reed's idea to seek out Metallica for the collaboration, then you are truly deluded.
I have no doubt in my mind that the whole debacle was a pathetic brain fart from either Ulrich or Hetfield.
Yep.
Quote from: Giggles on January 01, 2024, 08:07:45 PMQuote from: son of the Morrigan on December 31, 2023, 10:02:57 PMSt. Anger is better than the fucking black album!
But why?
They are both complete shite but at least St. Anger was an attempt at heavyness, the Black album is a fucking bland sell-out designed for commercial appeal.
Stanger was an attempt at hitching a ride on the unit-shifting, commercial wagon of the time. The "no guitar-solo" policy, the mission statements, the "Metallica as a garage band" contrivance. They were trying to retain relevance by emulating what was popular at the time. It's 'tallica makes a Korn album.
Just they were incredibly fucking shite at doing it.
If you remember the "stock" scene in the movie, it's easy to imagine Papa Het playing Ratamahatta or some other mongo riff instead, it really wouldn't be out of place at all. That's what they were aiming for, no doubt about it.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 02, 2024, 12:23:55 PMQuote from: Giggles on January 01, 2024, 08:07:45 PMQuote from: son of the Morrigan on December 31, 2023, 10:02:57 PMSt. Anger is better than the fucking black album!
But why?
They are both complete shite but at least St. Anger was an attempt at heavyness, the Black album is a fucking bland sell-out designed for commercial appeal.
And yet the Black album sounds heavier, some attempt that was! :laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: Giggles on January 01, 2024, 08:17:10 PMQuote from: Danny on January 01, 2024, 03:12:58 AMI could never understand how anyone that I knew who liked Metallica were post black album haters, just because it was more rock, when these people I knew were also rock music fans, into bands like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden etc...so wtf is the problem then?
My problem is that if I want to listen to rock music, or bluesy rock then I'll go listen to some quality bands who are already well established in that genre. Metallica's efforts were just a bit flaccid for my liking.
I'm sure the cutting of their hair and the sudden wearing of makeup didn't do much to help their thrash fans support them at the time either.
Nah, the Loads have aged like a fine wine. Hetfield is at his most confessional and sincere on those albums, and the brooding vibe to them is a major plus point. The best songs off Load and Reload on one CD would be second only to Ride the Lightning in Metallica's discography.
Also Reload isn't an outtakes album like people seem to think. They just had a double album's worth of songs and did what GnR did on the Illusions, except that they recorded and released Reload a year after Load.
Also, the endless obsession with the band's image at the time started off a debate that took the focus away from the actual music.
Load definitely has its moments, the more AIC/Danzig influenced bits suits them, but the real issue they developed (and every band in the 90s) was filling the 70 minutes on the cd and diluting the overall product.
And folks'll argue about them for years and years😂
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on January 04, 2024, 12:44:07 AMThe best songs off Load and Reload on one CD would be second only to Ride the Lightning in Metallica's discography.
Sheer madness. I've done this and it's good, but nowhere near the quality of the band in their prime. It's close to the 'black' album in terms of quality, but the songs themselves are still overlong, the beginning of their unwillingness to self edit.
Site should be renamed Metallica Warfare. Same shite over and over again.
'Talliwarfare family loves you babeeeyah!
Quote from: open face surgery on January 04, 2024, 01:33:49 PMSite should be renamed Metallica Warfare. Same shite over and over again.
What was the name of your man who was doomed to push a boulder up a hill for eternity again? Bob Rock was it?
Quote from: ochoill on January 04, 2024, 02:39:42 PMQuote from: open face surgery on January 04, 2024, 01:33:49 PMSite should be renamed Metallica Warfare. Same shite over and over again.
What was the name of your man who was doomed to push a boulder up a hill for eternity again? Bob Rock was it?
:laugh:
Sissyfoot
Quote from: Bürggermeister on January 02, 2024, 12:55:38 PMIf you remember the "stock" scene in the movie
When ol' man Ulrich kicked the bucket there, I sent a news link to a mate with the message "Stock crash"
:laugh: It should all have been deleted
That lad knew his onions. Pretty hilarious part of the movie wasn't it. Lars is in bits and dad is just saying quietly this is shit. Prescient
I can't remember it very clearly now, but my recollection was that the brief bit of music his aul lad dismissed as "stock" was better than everything they went on to compose for what became St. Anger.
Demilich has some of the worst death metal vocals of all time. I can't listen to Nespithe they're so bad.
Quote from: Mithrandir on January 10, 2024, 07:50:25 AMDemilich has some of the worst death metal vocals off all time. I can't listen to Nespithe they're so bad.
I got a bit of a shock when I first heard the gurgling vocal style, but it suits the music and makes the band more unique. I couldn't imagine them with generic death metal vocals.
I have Nespithe but haven't listened th it in donkeys. It never clicked with me. Must revisit.
Its seen as an under rated DM classic,but it never clicked with me either!.
Or me. Here's one for you: I can't stand Incantation. Onward To Golgotha I find unlistenable, mainly because of the vocals but musically I find it quite generic too.
Quote from: Carnage on January 10, 2024, 02:58:00 PMOr me. Here's one for you: I can't stand Incantation. Onward To Golgotha I find unlistenable, mainly because of the vocals but musically I find it quute generic too.
This is wrong. Wrong.
You're right, there was a typo. Fixed it now. ;)
:laugh:
I had Onward on tape back in the day,rarely listened to it tbh.I only gave their latest one a spin the other day,pretty good!
I only have Onward. Zero interest in it which is odd as most of the DM bands I got into in the 00s had them as an influence.
Ah lads, both Onward and Nesphite are stone cold classics :abbath:
Not arguing their status in the least. Just not into them.
I prefer Diabolical Conquest to Onward to Golgotha but I still think Onward is a classic.
I think Onward is savage, as is Diabolical.
I have Onward and another Incantation album of similar vintage whose name I can't remember. Absolutely could never get into either of them. I suppose that stuff just doesn't float my boat. However I remember seeing the band 10 or 12 years ago in a small venue and it was class. Less boring live maybe?
Incantation are great yiz bleedin' wimps
I agree. Maybe give Diabolical Conquest a lash if any of ye are in anyway on the fence.
The first 3 Incantation albums are some of the best Death Metal ever recorded.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 11, 2024, 07:34:30 PMI agree. Maybe give Diabolical Conquest a lash if any of ye are in anyway on the fence.
Played a bit of that one earlier, not bad but still didn't grab me. The vocals were a big step up from OTG anyway. Tried that again after and no, still not a fan.
Daniel Corchado from The Chasm is the vocalist on Diabolical Conquest, he has a very different style to Craig Pillard. I listened to it yesterday, it's a fucking beast of an album.
I must stick on Mortal Throne of Nazarene and The Forsaken Mourning of Angelic Anguish, they're both very good too but they never topped Diabolical Conquest.
I think part of Incantation's perception as being run of the mill is because of how much what they were doing has been aped since (often by bands not up to the mark too).
I too had it on yesterday. Such a savage album. Corchado's bass tones are unbelievable. I presume he brought some of the speed into it as well.
I'd say you're on the money there Squigz. That why I wasn't too arsed with them in the mid 00s when all that other stuff was coming out.
The only good In Flames album is Clayman
Quote from: DeadGoon on January 13, 2024, 08:47:20 AMThe only good In Flames album is Clayman
I'll go one farther and say the only good song on Clayman is the Depeche Mode cover
Quote from: DeadGoon on January 13, 2024, 08:47:20 AMThe only good In Flames album is Clayman
That one wasn't on the CD Tommy Tighe sold me. Pretty good though in fairness.
Not very controversial.
The heavy metal comb over.
Long hair and perpetual hat combination due to having a Klingon hairline.
Tom G Warrior is the poster boy for this nonsense.
Lads stop FFS.
The only one who could pull off the skullet was Devin Townsend, it looked ridiculous which was why it was perfect for him. But even he gave up the ghost on it eventually, and for the best really.
On a similar note - moustaches. Stop it.
All jourgensen without the hat is another one
Mike Scalzi rocked the fuzzy baldy look too. I respect people who couldn't give a fuck about shaving it down to the bone.
Emperor..... not great!
Jaysus, now that is controversial :abbath:
Cast in Stone is a solid Venom album
Yeah that wasn't a bad album at all, no probs with that
Quote from: hellfire on January 18, 2024, 04:52:42 PMCast in Stone is a solid Venom album
Is that controversial? I think it's the only one I've heard
Quote from: KingHostile on January 17, 2024, 04:16:51 PMEmperor..... not great!
Mildly controversial I'd say, they're still very influential. I loved listening to Emperor when I started listening to Black Metal, but I can't remember the last time I had the urge to listen to it.
As a drummer, it's hard to ignore how impressive their musicianship is, but that's as far as it goes for me these days...
Quote from: hellfire on January 18, 2024, 04:52:42 PMCast in Stone is a solid Venom album
That's one of the good ones. I have an unexplainable soft spot for The Waste Lands with Tony Dolan. Always go back to it for a listen. It's not even a guilty pleasure from my youth. I downloaded it from a blog around 15 years ago.
It's a decent enough album, but I never gave it much time.
Quote from: O Drighes on January 21, 2024, 11:29:50 AMQuote from: KingHostile on January 17, 2024, 04:16:51 PMEmperor..... not great!
Mildly controversial I'd say, they're still very influential. I loved listening to Emperor when I started listening to Black Metal, but I can't remember the last time I had the urge to listen to it.
As a drummer, it's hard to ignore how impressive their musicianship is, but that's as far as it goes for me these days...
Yes indeed..... not totally knocking them, get that they are quite influential.....get they are quite accomplished.... just don't think they will do anything interesting other than kick their back catalogue.
Think they are defunct as far as a creative force anyway.
Just a point to note.
I'll probably be excommunicated for saying this but Reverend Bizarre are fucking tedious. Tried listening to their first album again yesterday and I couldn't get through it.
One of the greatest albums ever written. The rest is of varying quality for me but In The Rectory.. is perfect.
Do you find it tedious despite liking other similar doom albums? Or you just don't dig the genre?
No, I'm a huge fan of doom. I love Candlemass, Cathedral, Scald etc. so Reverend Bizarre should be right up my alley. There's just not enough going on in the music to grab my attention. The riffs aren't particularly good and I find the vocals irritating.
:sniffles:
Fair enough. Odd one alright. Love all those bands too, but to my ears there's a certain kind of atmosphere attained on In The Rectory... that nothing even in Candlemass' catalogue can compare with.
Same as Matt though, outside of that album I can more or less take or leave among the rest, rarely listen to it.
It's just not for me, I find it too one-dimensional whereas I can lose myself in an album like Will of the Gods is a Great Power.
Then again, I enjoy listening to Archgoat so what the fuck do I know?!
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on January 24, 2024, 10:56:05 AMNo, I'm a huge fan of doom. I love Candlemass, Cathedral, Scald etc. so Reverend Bizarre should be right up my alley. There's just not enough going on in the music to grab my attention. The riffs aren't particularly good and I find the vocals irritating.
It's 100% the riffs. I love all those other bands myself, there's some tasty drumming on the Reverend stuff, (I quite dig the pomposity of the vocals too), but oh man, the riffs are coma-inducing. It all sounds like it was lifted from "My First Doom Licks" or something.
That little two note figure that's delivered after almost every line in "Burn in Hell" makes me want to poke holes in me ears before the song finishes.
I think Burn in Hell is sublime. The riffs, vocals, drums, production, atmosphere... to me it sounded unearthly when I first heard it twenty something years ago. Total mesmerising transcendence. I had never heard a doom record like that at that point and when I listen to it now, and the rest of the album, it still transports me to another world.
Quote from: Ducky on January 24, 2024, 11:31:26 AMQuote from: Massey Ferguson on January 24, 2024, 10:56:05 AMNo, I'm a huge fan of doom. I love Candlemass, Cathedral, Scald etc. so Reverend Bizarre should be right up my alley. There's just not enough going on in the music to grab my attention. The riffs aren't particularly good and I find the vocals irritating.
It's 100% the riffs. I love all those other bands myself, there's some tasty drumming on the Reverend stuff, (I quite dig the pomposity of the vocals too), but oh man, the riffs are coma-inducing. It all sounds like it was lifted from "My First Doom Licks" or something.
That little two note figure that's delivered after almost every line in "Burn in Hell" makes me want to poke holes in me ears before the song finishes.
Yeah, the riffs are very dull. They barely even qualify as riffs. The album might sound okay with a lot of sweet leaf in the system but even then I think I'd be bored as fuck.
Mesmerizing, exactly. Something achieved by creating atmosphere, not by stringing riffs together and hoping atmosphere happens. Jaws theme music, y'know: What's the atmosphere that's being created here? Not, I wonder are they going to use any other notes?
Reverend Bizare were astounding, something there for any fan of doom I'd have thought. I'd understand not being a fan of the third album as it does go on a bit but In The Rectory... is near perfect.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 24, 2024, 11:39:10 AMI think Burn in Hell is sublime. The riffs, vocals, drums, production, atmosphere... to me it sounded unearthly when I first heard it twenty something years ago. Total mesmerising transcendence. I had never heard a doom record like that at that point and when I listen to it now, and the rest of the album, it still transports me to another world.
I get this buzz listening to something like Opaque Divinity by Solitude Aeturnus, which is obviously broadly similar to RB, but RB leaves me cold.
Can understand why some people might not like Reverend. But man oh man I love them, doom metal at its absolute finest.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 24, 2024, 11:47:16 AMMesmerizing, exactly. Something achieved by creating atmosphere, not by stringing riffs together and hoping atmosphere happens. Jaws theme music, y'know: What's the atmosphere that's being created here? Not, I wonder are they going to use any other notes?
Yep, 100% fair observation. Defo a band for my "should like them but for some reason don't" pile.
Quote from: Ducky on January 24, 2024, 02:14:58 PMQuote from: Eoin McLove on January 24, 2024, 11:39:10 AMI think Burn in Hell is sublime. The riffs, vocals, drums, production, atmosphere... to me it sounded unearthly when I first heard it twenty something years ago. Total mesmerising transcendence. I had never heard a doom record like that at that point and when I listen to it now, and the rest of the album, it still transports me to another world.
I get this buzz listening to something like Opaque Divinity by Solitude Aeturnus, which is obviously broadly similar to RB, but RB leaves me cold.
Even broadly, there is very little similar between the two. Both class but worlds apart.
Clandestine is a far better album than Left Hand Path. The second half of their debut tails off badly whereas their sophomore is consistently amazing throughout. LHP would also be the weakest of all the debuts of the Swedish Big Four.
Blasphemy! My second favourite DM album and I don't hear a second half dip at all. A punky DM classic made by lads who were still in school, you can hear the enthusiasm overtaking the skill without it sounding sloppy.
As a counter (and fitting the thread) Clandestine is a seriously subpar album IMO. With a couple of exceptions, the songs just aren't there. The production is cold and lifeless and the vocals are completely shit. One of the first metal CDs I bought but I got rid of it years ago.
Both are class albums,but for years i was almost afraid to say i prefer Clandestine! :laugh:
I agree with Clandestine being the superior album.
Here's another controversial opinion - Like an Ever Flowing Stream is the best Swedish DM album.
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on February 01, 2024, 03:07:46 PMI agree with Clandestine being the superior album.
Here's another controversial opinion - Like an Ever Flowing Stream is the best Swedish DM album.
Nothing overly controversial there but very difficult to separate it from Into the Grave. As close to a dead heat as you're likely to see.
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on February 01, 2024, 03:07:46 PMLike an Ever Flowing Stream is the best Swedish DM album.
Second after LHP for me, Dark Recollections or Indecent And Obscene in third.
Never took to Grave. They're good alright, just never grabbed me.
Quote from: Massey Ferguson on February 01, 2024, 03:07:46 PMI agree with Clandestine being the superior album.
Here's another controversial opinion - Like an Ever Flowing Stream is the best Swedish DM album.
It is the best!
Volahn - Aq'Ab'Al. the best black metal album of the last 10 years.
I have the first Volahn album and I really liked it but haven't listened to it in ages. I'll stick it on later. Must check out the one mentioned above as it passed me by.
Quote from: Carnage on February 01, 2024, 03:27:39 PMQuote from: Massey Ferguson on February 01, 2024, 03:07:46 PMLike an Ever Flowing Stream is the best Swedish DM album.
Second after LHP for me, Dark Recollections or Indecent And Obscene in third.
Never took to Grave. They're good alright, just never grabbed me.
Left Hand is where it's at
Quote from: Carnage on February 01, 2024, 03:27:39 PMQuote from: Massey Ferguson on February 01, 2024, 03:07:46 PMLike an Ever Flowing Stream is the best Swedish DM album.
Second after LHP for me, Dark Recollections or Indecent And Obscene in third.
Never took to Grave. They're good alright, just never grabbed me.
I was on a mad Dismember buzz years ago and was really into Indecent And Obscene. I should revisit them actually.
Quote from: ijnjnijnilijbibbjknkjbjkk on February 01, 2024, 11:38:02 PMVolahn - Aq'Ab'Al. the best black metal album of the last 10 years.
It's definitely up there. Shame there's been no output since that le tigre del sur (excuse the half forgotten Spanish title) ep.
Not metal as such but Whole Lotta Love is a fucking terrible song. To the point that I can't listen to LZII. Worst album of the first four by a mile for me.
I'd agree LZII is relatively the weakest of the first four, but Whole Lotta Love is quality, yer mental :laugh:
Quote from: ijnjnijnilijbibbjknkjbjkk on February 01, 2024, 11:38:02 PMVolahn - Aq'Ab'Al. the best black metal album of the last 10 years.
The album is good but nothing special even some stuff from that circle like Stillbirth in the Temple of Venus is so much better. Such a shame Arizmenda have no clue how to release records and also refuse to let any label handle releases for them. Got to see Volahn live a few years ago and I thought sounded a lot better live than on record.
Quote from: mickO))) on February 03, 2024, 01:39:55 PMQuote from: ijnjnijnilijbibbjknkjbjkk on February 01, 2024, 11:38:02 PMVolahn - Aq'Ab'Al. the best black metal album of the last 10 years.
The album is good but nothing special even some stuff from that circle like Stillbirth in the Temple of Venus is so much better. Such a shame Arizmenda have no clue how to release records and also refuse to let any label handle releases for them. Got to see Volahn live a few years ago and I thought sounded a lot better live than on record.
the Volahn release is unique. nothing sounds like it in the genre. Arizmenda have 3 releases since stillbirth. last one in 2022. you should check it out, Spiders Lust in the Dungeon's Dust.
*edit* It's apparently very hard to post properly when you're binned
Quote from: DeadGoon on February 03, 2024, 05:29:03 PMNot sure if controversial, just that In Somniphobia and Imaginary Sonicscape are held up as their best albums and I think this pisses all over them
*edit* whoops
Quote from: ijnjnijnilijbibbjknkjbjkk on February 03, 2024, 04:32:37 PMQuote from: mickO))) on February 03, 2024, 01:39:55 PMQuote from: ijnjnijnilijbibbjknkjbjkk on February 01, 2024, 11:38:02 PMVolahn - Aq'Ab'Al. the best black metal album of the last 10 years.
The album is good but nothing special even some stuff from that circle like Stillbirth in the Temple of Venus is so much better. Such a shame Arizmenda have no clue how to release records and also refuse to let any label handle releases for them. Got to see Volahn live a few years ago and I thought sounded a lot better live than on record.
the Volahn release is unique. nothing sounds like it in the genre. Arizmenda have 3 releases since stillbirth. last one in 2022. you should check it out, Spiders Lust in the Dungeon's Dust.
Yeah I know all the Arizmenda albums. The way the last one was released was a disgrace. €50 for a DLP and only a handful of copies made it to Europe for sale. Any of the people that sold it in the US would not ship to Europe now it is just another release going for stupid money on Discogs as if the original €50 price tag wasn't bad enough.
Quote from: DeadGoon on February 03, 2024, 05:39:09 PMQuote from: DeadGoon on February 03, 2024, 05:29:03 PMNot sure if controversial, just that In Somniphobia and Imaginary Sonicscape are held up as their best albums and I think this pisses all over them
Choosing the worst Sigh album is like trying to pick which testicle to get removed. All are better than what most bands will output in their career. That said I'm with you on Imaginary Soniscape, probably my least favourite. Hail Horror Hail eclipses it almost entirely. So do Scorn Defeat and Infidel Art.
Just to add to controversy. The Napalm Death album Scum is some of the worst shit I've ever heard in my life. I also hate everything else Lee Dorian did vocals on, including Cathedral. I don't know anything about the guy personally but I hate his voice. I think Eddie Vedder is the only other vocalists that irks me enough to make the quality of the music behind him irrelevant.
I find Cathedral underwhelming
Quote from: Don Gately on February 04, 2024, 03:13:02 PMI find Cathedral underwhelming
Same. The best thing Leo Smee ever did was form a prog funk band
Lee Dorian's groovy vocals are hard on the ear but I love his performance on Forest of Equilibrium.
Can't stand his barking on the early ND stuff at all.
I do enjoy Lee on the Cathedral stuff, but the ND era is definitely overhyped (FETO is class though).
The ND era is the best shit ever. "Mentally Murdered" in particular. Yis are all mental.
Scum is sick!
If Barney had sang on Mentally Murdered it'd be their best release. But he didn't so it isn't.
Mechanize is Fear Factory's best album
Don't get me wrong, I love Arise but, controversial opinion:
...For Victory is the album Arise tried to be :abbath:
Sijjin are fucking overrated garbage.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 06, 2024, 03:28:14 AMMechanize is Fear Factory's best album
It's up there for sure. Gene Hoglan killing it as per usual.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 06, 2024, 03:28:14 AMMechanize is Fear Factory's best album
I'd go Archetype, Demanufacture, Mechanize.
Everything since has been sticking a bit too closely to the formula, not bad albums, just nothing noteworthy
Quote from: Trev on February 25, 2024, 02:06:39 PMQuote from: astfgyl on February 06, 2024, 03:28:14 AMMechanize is Fear Factory's best album
I'd go Archetype, Demanufacture, Mechanize.
Everything since has been sticking a bit too closely to the formula, not bad albums, just nothing noteworthy
Picked up Archetype a year or two ago for 50c in a charity shop and it was much better than I'd remembered. I can't remember a single song off anything after Mechanize
Archetype is underrated for sure, I love the rawer sound on it. And then the abortion that followed it...
Was it The Industrialist that they used a drum machine for? Whichever one it was they've reissued it with live drums, presumably by their current drummer.
Quote from: Carnage on February 25, 2024, 02:55:06 PMArchetype is underrated for sure, I love the rawer sound on it. And then the abortion that followed it...
Was it The Industrialist that they used a drum machine for? Whichever one it was they've reissued it with live drums, presumably by their current drummer.
I think that hape of shit yoke had potential in some ways but jaysus it turned out fair bad
Two covers and they were still the best songs on it.
Quote from: Carnage on February 25, 2024, 02:55:06 PMArchetype is underrated for sure, I love the rawer sound on it. And then the abortion that followed it...
Was it The Industrialist that they used a drum machine for? Whichever one it was they've reissued it with live drums, presumably by their current drummer.
Yeah, Dino sneakily did it and neglected to tell Hoglan. One rumour was Gene was going to negotiate better terms of course Dino's gonna Dino. The lad that falls out with everyone.
I'd go Demanufacture/SONM/Archetype/Mechanize
Quote from: Sworntothecans on February 25, 2024, 09:02:24 PMQuote from: Carnage on February 25, 2024, 02:55:06 PMArchetype is underrated for sure, I love the rawer sound on it. And then the abortion that followed it...
Was it The Industrialist that they used a drum machine for? Whichever one it was they've reissued it with live drums, presumably by their current drummer.
Yeah, Dino sneakily did it and neglected to tell Hoglan. One rumour was Gene was going to negotiate better terms of course Dino's gonna Dino. The lad that falls out with everyone.
I'd go Demanufacture/SONM/Archetype/Mechanize
Used to think he was a bollix too but now I'd stand up for Dino for almost everything FF related after reading the court docs and various shit online behind the scenes of the band (tl;dr the other three tried to litigate him out of the band but it backfired badly, after years of dragging him through shit anyway) - but I'll never understand why they did that to Hoglan. He was told he was recording it then suddenly it's already done. It was while Bell was back in the band anyway and it was around this point the whole thing fell to shit again so I wonder if he had a hand in it too, Bell had went bankrupt at this point.
Anyway it's no good. Archetype is also terrible lads I dunno why everyone raves about it. And that dogshit afterwards, sweet jesus. Mechanise is the only album post-Obsolete worth any time.
Demanufacture / SOANM / Obsolete / Mechanise for me anyway. Wouldn't even put on a new song if it was released now mind but I listen to those three still regularly.
'Genexus' had some good moments I thought. No 'Soul of a new machine ' or 'Fear Is the mind killer ' but decent nonetheless.
There's something good on all of the albums bar Transgression, that's clearly fucking terrible. Even the last few, they're worth a listen. No classics there obviously, but they're not shit. I have zero hope or interest in the post-Bell incarnation of the band, the fact that he got a Bell clone in (including the hairstyle and mannerisms) shows that there's no interest in progression or evolution there, it's just gonna be shoddy rehashing of former glories. Dead band.
Quote from: Carnage on February 26, 2024, 01:14:22 AMThere's something good on all of the albums bar Transgression, that's clearly fucking terrible. Even the last few, they're worth a listen. No classics there obviously, but they're not shit. I have zero hope or interest in the post-Bell incarnation of the band, the fact that he got a Bell clone in (including the hairstyle and mannerisms) shows that there's no interest in progression or evolution there, it's just gonna be shoddy rehashing of former glories. Dead band.
Surely the correct term for a Bell clone would be "replicant"?
Quote from: Pentagrimes on February 26, 2024, 07:44:08 AMSurely the correct term for a Bell clone would be "replicant"?
:laugh: replace him with AI altogether since he has been singing about it for his whole career.
Quote from: Carnage on February 26, 2024, 01:14:22 AMI have zero hope or interest in the post-Bell incarnation of the band, the fact that he got a Bell clone in (including the hairstyle and mannerisms) shows that there's no interest in progression or evolution there, it's just gonna be shoddy rehashing of former glories. Dead band.
Oh yeah I have no hope or interest meself. There's no saving them. I'll just listen to the few albums I enjoy, wouldn't even go see them live now (but luckily caught the half-SYL version of them years ago). The second they let Wolbers write the music and Bell steer the band it was utterly fucked and Digimortal is the first result of that - arguably Obsolete but I think Cazares still had a fair hand in that and it actually has good tunes on it. I know Wolbers is gone years but he still turned it to irredeemable shite while he had the chance. No excuse for the last few though, like you said, it's Dino trying to flog a dead horse now.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on February 26, 2024, 07:44:08 AMQuote from: Carnage on February 26, 2024, 01:14:22 AMThere's something good on all of the albums bar Transgression, that's clearly fucking terrible. Even the last few, they're worth a listen. No classics there obviously, but they're not shit. I have zero hope or interest in the post-Bell incarnation of the band, the fact that he got a Bell clone in (including the hairstyle and mannerisms) shows that there's no interest in progression or evolution there, it's just gonna be shoddy rehashing of former glories. Dead band.
Surely the correct term for a Bell clone would be "replicant"?
Waiting on the directors cut of Fear Factory where Dino is the replicant 😂
Quote from: Pentagrimes on February 26, 2024, 07:44:08 AMSurely the correct term for a Bell clone would be "replicant"?
Nice.
Quote from: ochoill on February 26, 2024, 09:30:03 AMQuote from: Pentagrimes on February 26, 2024, 07:44:08 AMSurely the correct term for a Bell clone would be "replicant"?
:laugh: replace him with AI altogether since he has been singing about it for his whole career
Lol perfect! Prophecy fulfilled although I think that milo lad might as well be ai as it is
Never saw the attraction of Fear Factory. Overrated band.
It's probably more controversial me, a renknowned 90s death metal elitist snob, saying "Demanufacture" has some bangers on it than it is someone here not liking them :laugh: How could you not love the end od "Pisschrist"?
You couldn't not like the end of Pisschrist. It's probably their finest hour
Edit: well, minute or two...
Demanufacture was a boy one for me but I never went any further with them.
Demanufacture is great. The only consistent album they ever released. As said, some absolute bangers on that one. The whole man v machine, dystopian schtick was grand at the time but they absolutely dragged the life out of the concept. Digimortal is probably the worst piece of dogshit I ever purchased in my life, and I bought the Burning Red. Good comparison with Machine Head now that I think of it, one classic early to mid nineties album and then it all went to pot.
Yeah, Demanufacture is one of my favourite albums, they never came close to it again. They were savage on that tour, too.
Transgression shots all over Digimortal and that's saying something.
Soul Of A New Machine is brilliant goes on for ages.
Demanufacture is the best one.
I thought Archetype was great at the start but it got boring very fast.
Did Raymond Herrera ever hit a tom roll?
Demanufacture was a staple as a young fella. Got the shirt when I was about 14 and had it ripped clean off me the very first night I wore it 😄 Went back to it about 2 years ago and was surprised that of all the albums of that time and of the more mainstream metal that that was one that held up well.
Was a huge FF fan around then,still spin Soul regularly,Demanufacture not so much but still a great album.I ran a small bus from Cork to the gig in the SFX in 1995,still have the original tour shirt too.Remember being a bit star struck outside after when the band came out signing tickets etc.
Quote from: Circlepit on February 26, 2024, 09:12:25 PMTransgression shots all over Digimortal and that's saying something.
Soul Of A New Machine is brilliant goes on for ages.
Demanufacture is the best one.
I thought Archetype was great at the start but it got boring very fast.
Did Raymond Herrera ever hit a tom roll?
There's a story behind that for Demanufacture at least. Apparently they weren't happy with Colin Richardson's mix for the album, there was some grief over it because he wanted it to sound the same as SOANM but the band didn't, they kept everything he recorded for it and went to Rhys Fulber, who did the mix we all know.
During the transition Richardson lost the tom tracks that were recorded, but they ended up loving the mix without them that Fulber got without any toms on it, presumably because of how much more mechanical the whole thing is.
Quote from: John Kimble on February 26, 2024, 08:51:45 PMDigimortal is probably the worst piece of dogshit I ever purchased in my life, and I bought the Burning Red. Good comparison with Machine Head now that I think of it, one classic early to mid nineties album and then it all went to pot.
After I got my first job as a young fella I went out and bought Digimortal and Machine Heads Supercharger, think just because they were the most recent releases.
I listened to them so, so many times to try and justify paying for them but they're both irredeemable shite
Haha we've all done it,bought some scutter of a release in our teens and tried to force yourself to like it because you blew all that weeks cash on it! :laugh:
Jaysus hard luck with those two man
I did the same I think, that was a disappointing evening! :laugh:
I'd give Digimortal the odd spin now and then but Supercharger is just irredeemable.
Quote from: ochoill on February 26, 2024, 09:52:34 PMQuote from: Circlepit on February 26, 2024, 09:12:25 PMTransgression shots all over Digimortal and that's saying something.
Soul Of A New Machine is brilliant goes on for ages.
Demanufacture is the best one.
I thought Archetype was great at the start but it got boring very fast.
Did Raymond Herrera ever hit a tom roll?
There's a story behind that for Demanufacture at least. Apparently they weren't happy with Colin Richardson's mix for the album, there was some grief over it because he wanted it to sound the same as SOANM but the band didn't, they kept everything he recorded for it and went to Rhys Fulber, who did the mix we all know.
During the transition Richardson lost the tom tracks that were recorded, but they ended up loving the mix without them that Fulber got without any toms on it, presumably because of how much more mechanical the whole thing is.
That's crazy that a drummer would agree to it!
Never got into FF. I had Demanufacture but, without even thinking about it, just never listened to it. Don't know any of their other stuff at all, and have never read anything that made me curious to check it out :laugh: Must have a listen to Demanufacture for the laugh some time. Could be 20 years since I heard it.
Quote from: Paul keohane on February 26, 2024, 09:46:03 PMWas a huge FF fan around then,still spin Soul regularly,Demanufacture not so much but still a great album.I ran a small bus from Cork to the gig in the SFX in 1995,still have the original tour shirt too.Remember being a bit star struck outside after when the band came out signing tickets etc.
I was at that one too. The support band, Pet Hates (?), were from my home town which was mind blowing to me at 13. I can only imagine how awful they must have been for me to have thought they sucked back then :laugh:
Were they not called Paranoia or am I thinking of a different gig? They were definitely shite anyway.
I think possibly Skinfather opened, and then it was the Celbridge band. I'll double check the name but it definitely wasn't Paranoia.
I saw them support someone there in the mid to late '90s, can't remember who. Cubanate and Will Haven supported FF in '99, it wasn't that time. Korn or Paradise Lost, maybe?
I only saw then headline there. Maybe it was 96...
QuotePet Hates
I think that was their only gig or one of anyways. Not a trace of them anywhere or a note of music to be found.
Quote from: Carnage on February 27, 2024, 12:13:22 AMWere they not called Paranoia or am I thinking of a different gig? They were definitely shite anyway.
Didn't Paranoia support Anthrax? IIRC at the end of their set, the drummer threw his sticks into the crowd, and you could hear them bounce along the floor all the way back.
:laugh:
Yeah I think Pet Hates played a few gigs in Leixlip and maybe at a guess the Student's Union in Maynooth College. I think only the guitarist was from Celbridge but me and my mates thought it was unreal to see a guy from our town on stage in the SFX. I really do have to stress that they were terrible...
I didn't make it to the gig but was friends with a few like minded souls from Celbridge back then, it was literally the first thing everyone mentioned. I remember thinking the name was a complete load of bollocks, like a typical pub cover band - I thought though they must be heavy, must at least sound similar to Fear Factory to get on the bill but turns out one of their old boys had a well placed connection.
I'm presuming they were some kind of indie grungey rock?
Who did you know from Celbridge? I might know them.
It was very much 90s alt metal/nu metal if I remember correctly. The singer wanted to be Zach de la Rocha but he looked like he had stage fright and couldn't scream at all :laugh: He tried to do a cool jump at one stage and I think he got about 1.5 inches off the ground. It was just embarrassing.
Knew quite a few around the Grove area? Is that right - haven't been there in an age or had any contact with anyone. Ken Hall was my first contact there, think his brother is in Dead Label now.
No fucking way man. I hung around in the Grove in the mid to late 90s. I know Ken Hall but haven't seen him since school. I think he was a year or two ahead of me so he would have finished up in 97/98? Did you know Teggs, Bolger, Ste Tew etc? I was in a band with a few of those heads in around 97.
None of those names ring any bells, long time ago now though. There was a lad called horse I recall?
:laugh: Yep, Horse was in that crew. A mad hoor.
Quote from: Mower Liberation Front on February 27, 2024, 06:42:55 AMQuote from: Carnage on February 27, 2024, 12:13:22 AMWere they not called Paranoia or am I thinking of a different gig? They were definitely shite anyway.
Didn't Paranoia support Anthrax? IIRC at the end of their set, the drummer threw his sticks into the crowd, and you could hear them bounce along the floor all the way back.
Possibly but I didn't see them there.
Stuck on Demanufacture last night and very quickly remembered what always put a downer on Fear Factory for me: disappointment that the lyrics and vocal approach, with only a couple of exceptions, didn't live up to the overall aesthetic. Too much generic angst, not enough true Giger-esque darkness.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 27, 2024, 10:57:28 AMStuck on Demanufacture last night and very quickly remembered what always put a downer on Fear Factory for me: disappointment that the lyrics and vocal approach, with only a couple of exceptions, didn't live up to the overall aesthetic. Too much generic angst, not enough true Giger-esque darkness.
Try Mechanize. It's better
Quote from: astfgyl on February 27, 2024, 01:03:10 PMQuote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 27, 2024, 10:57:28 AMStuck on Demanufacture last night and very quickly remembered what always put a downer on Fear Factory for me: disappointment that the lyrics and vocal approach, with only a couple of exceptions, didn't live up to the overall aesthetic. Too much generic angst, not enough true Giger-esque darkness.
Try Mechanize. It's better
Mechanize is a fantastic album, I would hold Demanufacture higher though. Both excellent albums. Hoglan plays a stormer on Mechanize!
The Real Thing would have been a much better album with The Perfect Crime and The Cowboy Song on there instead of the War Pigs cover.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on March 04, 2024, 02:04:47 PMThe Real Thing would have been a much better album with The Perfect Crime and The Cowboy Song on there instead of the War Pigs cover.
No controversy there for me!
Nah, I love their version of War Pigs. I have many fond childhood memories of it.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 04, 2024, 06:34:26 PMNah, I love their version of War Pigs. I have many fond childhood memories of it.
Love it myself and I think I'm in this thread somewhere saying I preferred it to the original because I knew it so well so many years earlier but I'd have preferred the two originals on the album and War Pigs tacked on the end of the live album
For ages the way Mike Patton sang " satan laughing spreads his wings " on the live from Brixton album was the heaviest thing ever .
This may be considered controversial but Mike Patton is far more interesting when he is just singing rather than doing his Patron thing.
I wouldn't say that's controversial at all, he's a great straight up singer but when he's given free rein he's insufferable.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on February 27, 2024, 08:02:55 AMKnew quite a few around the Grove area? Is that right - haven't been there in an age or had any contact with anyone. Ken Hall was my first contact there, think his brother is in Dead Label now.
Yeah Danny I think. That's mad, been living around the Grove myself just in the last few years :abbath:
Quote from: Carnage on March 04, 2024, 08:23:23 PMI wouldn't say that's controversial at all, he's a great straight up singer but when he's given free rein he's insufferable.
Adult Themes For Voice is what happens when he's left at it.
There's a happy medium with him indeed and my controversial opinion of this evening is that his happiest medium is to be found on Disco Volante.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 04, 2024, 10:20:56 PMThere's a happy medium with him indeed and my controversial opinion of this evening is that his happiest medium is to be found on Disco Volante.
Least controversial thing in this thread
Quote from: Pentagrimes on March 05, 2024, 01:20:00 PMQuote from: astfgyl on March 04, 2024, 10:20:56 PMThere's a happy medium with him indeed and my controversial opinion of this evening is that his happiest medium is to be found on Disco Volante.
Least controversial thing in this thread
3/3 there lads.
Oddly revisiting Kaada/Patton "Romances" a good bit lately and it is severely underrated, dunno when either of ye last had it on but it is worth going back to anyway.
It was all Mondo Cane for me over the weekend, and the originals of the songs he covered. Amazing how spot on some of them are.
Quote from: ochoill on March 05, 2024, 01:34:56 PMQuote from: Pentagrimes on March 05, 2024, 01:20:00 PMQuote from: astfgyl on March 04, 2024, 10:20:56 PMThere's a happy medium with him indeed and my controversial opinion of this evening is that his happiest medium is to be found on Disco Volante.
Least controversial thing in this thread
3/3 there lads.
Oddly revisiting Kaada/Patton "Romances" a good bit lately and it is severely underrated, dunno when either of ye last had it on but it is worth going back to anyway.
I got as far as the debut, that was enough for me. Tried to listen to a bit of DV when they were a hot topic here a few weeks ago, not for me at all.
Brave new world is a better album than somewhere in time.
Only in an alternate universe where wrong is right and ReLoad is commonly accepted as being better than Ride The Lightning.
Is it controversial to say I've never liked a single Iron Maiden tune? I remember my mate's brother having all the posters of the album covers back in the early 90s and thinking the music was going to be something spectacular altogether and then being really disappointed when I tried out the tape of Somewhere in Time. They've never grown on me since either. Ah well..
Dio post Mob Rules is not a good singer. bordering on unlistenable
As in, his entire solo catalogue?
Brave New world is the best album released since Dickinson returned to the band by a country mile. But not better than any of the first 7 albums.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on March 04, 2024, 02:04:47 PMThe Real Thing would have been a much better album with The Perfect Crime and The Cowboy Song on there instead of the War Pigs cover.
Agreed. War Pigs is a great cover, but Perfect Crime is an absolute choon!
if Patton cut out the nasal shyte too it would have been better, Angel Dust is their peak
The nasal thing was deliberate. They wouldn't let him contribute much (if anything) to the writing and he did the voice out of spite. They hadn't time to redo the vocals so that was what we got.
Has he said it was out of spite? Rather than just him being young and an absolute messer known for prank humour? I know some members weren't happy with the vocals, but I'd heard Patton just defended them, like said that was how he meant to do it, that was the style.
I read it somewhere within the last couple of years, but can't remember where. Possibly in the sleevenotes for the recent reissue, maybe not. Spite might be pushing it but know it was definitely deliberate, as a reaction to not being allowed to write more.
Quote from: Don Gately on March 06, 2024, 11:29:04 AMif Patton cut out the nasal shyte too it would have been better, Angel Dust is their peak
He was essentially making it up as he was going along (and clearly taking the piss out of Kiedis etc)when he joined,barely gone 20 years old. The nasal bits aside it's a hell of a performance.
Quote from: londonleatherboy on March 06, 2024, 10:09:00 AMQuote from: Giggles on March 06, 2024, 09:29:14 AMAs in, his entire solo catalogue?
yes
What! The first 4 Dio albums have some of the best heavy metal vocals ever I reckon.
Holy Diver is a classic.
Nah his nasal vocals are deadly 8)
Quote from: londonleatherboy on March 06, 2024, 09:18:54 AMDio post Mob Rules is not a good singer. bordering on unlistenable
That's not a controversial opinion, that's an incorrect statement, plain and simple.
"Not good.... bordering on unlistenable".... get out of town!
Quote from: Carnage on March 06, 2024, 01:01:24 PMI read it somewhere within the last couple if years, but can't remember where. Possibly in the sleevenotes for the recent reissue, maybe not. Spite might be pushing it but know it was definitely deliberate, as a reaction to not being allowed to write more.
Cool, cool, yeah I definitely always took it to be deliberate since I only knew Epic from The Real Thing and then got to properly know them through later albums first.
I am currently listening to The Perfect Crime for the first time. How have I never come across it before and why was it not added to the bonus material on the recent reissues? Not getting excited, it's an Angel Dust B-side at best but I'm annoyed that I'm only hearing it 30 years down the line.
Don't think I've ever heard that either. I'll give it a spin later.
Listening to Sweet Emotion now and if ever there's track that should have been on The Real Thing, that's it.
The Perfect Crime is a good auld b-side. I'm surprised it's not on anything else. I've had a sort of home mix of FNM b-sides for forever on the PC (most cobbled up from limewire days) and that was in there, as is my favourite FNM b-side of them all:
https://youtu.be/XXEMTvOmAXM?si=XZvIx8yX9cQghyUu
Quote from: Carnage on March 07, 2024, 02:31:40 AMListening to Sweet Emotion now and if ever there's track that should have been on The Real Thing, that's it.
I had never heard that before. It's so odd to listen to it after knowing The Perfect Crime for over 30 years. I can do without with the nasal vocals, to be honest, and I miss "STAYSHUNNNNN!" 😂
Chinese Democracy is a better album than Appetite for Destruction
It would be, yeah. If your favorite band was Pulp.
Quote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 10:52:17 AMChinese Democracy is a better album than Appetite for Destruction
Utter nonsense!
Picked up TCD for a €1 a while back and still feel fucking cheated.
Forced myself to listen to it all the way through. Total dogshit.
Speaking of Appetite, a mate shared this with me the other day. Fairly impressive performance, albeit it does sound slightly odd having the instruments all acoustic but the vocals doing a ~perfect impression of full rock Axl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTkRA4XOjQY
Quote from: londonleatherboy on March 06, 2024, 09:18:54 AMDio post Mob Rules is not a good singer. bordering on unlistenable
Dio is overrated shite, full stop. Technically accomplished, but fucking hell does he bore the man-tits off me, especially with his dork fantasy lyrics.
Quote from: jobrok1 on March 27, 2024, 12:21:09 PMQuote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 10:52:17 AMChinese Democracy is a better album than Appetite for Destruction
Utter nonsense!
Picked up TCD for a €1 a while back and still feel fucking cheated.
Forced myself to listen to it all the way through. Total dogshit.
It's still infinitely better than that boring muck that is Appetite, at least Chinese Democracy is interesting. I should probably have prefaced this with Appetite wasn't one of my formative albums, I've no attachment to it. It's the audio equivalent of the shite stepped on coke beloved by the bootcut jeans, check shirt, brown shoes brigade.
Ah now, that's going too far: some of us were raised on shite stepped on coke!
I can say this about Appetite, the high res sound desk recordings are unreal! they came with the massive 'safe' boxset. Truly unreal!
Then I would agree with criticism of AFD, its very dark.
I have my Chinese Democracy moments, very interesting album. Too many chefs......
Also liked HardSkool... great song...... but they threw me on that last single(?) release!
Quote from: Ducky on March 27, 2024, 12:32:00 PMQuote from: londonleatherboy on March 06, 2024, 09:18:54 AMDio post Mob Rules is not a good singer. bordering on unlistenable
Dio is overrated shite, full stop. Technically accomplished, but fucking hell does he bore the man-tits off me, especially with his dork fantasy lyrics.
Ah now lads. That is pure bollocks.
The man was an immense vocalist, the perfect balance of range, power, and (for want of a better word) feel. Firstly, saying he was not a good singer after Mob Rules is utterly absurd, even if you aren't a fan of Dio the band, there is no doubting his vocal ability throughout his career. Even when Heaven & Hell did that Radio City Music Hall gig, he was an absolute powerhouse. He was what, 65 when he did that show? And he still put men half his age to shame. Even before his illness he was still pretty fucking good, especially considering his age.
Holy Diver, Last In Line, Dream Evil and Dehumanizer are fucking stellar heavy metal albums. And Lock Up The Wolves, Magica, Killing The Dragon, and Master Of The Moon are great too, if not quite all time classics.
And 'The Devil You Know' is vastly underrated in the grand scheme of things. Both that, and the new tracks on 'The Dio Years' compilation were the best Sabbath related material in decades.
And fantasy lyrics are as valid as any other kind.
Quote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 12:49:13 PMat least Chinese Democracy is interesting.
It really isn't. He threw everything at the wall over the course of what, 15+ years and it still sounds like a turgid, derivitive, unfocussed mess.
Quote from: Carnage on March 27, 2024, 06:32:48 PMQuote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 12:49:13 PMat least Chinese Democracy is interesting.
It really isn't. He threw everything at the wall over the course of what, 15+ years and it still sounds like a turgid, derivitive, unfocussed mess.
You are absolutely correct Sir.
Clarify here!!!!
Chinese Democracy, during its gestation some of the songs sounded way better than what was released. To me in a way its similar to Metallica's Load.
Chinese Democracy had so many 'named' people working on it. Multiple takes on everything, so many people came and went that it really was a car crash. But - its Axl's true vision for Gun's n Roses. About a million miles away from what we know and love about Gun's N Roses.
I got Chinese Democracy 'Given to me' in a shop on vinyl, because nobody was buying it!!! A first! free.....
For me the gestation of the album, the revolving door of members and the madness of Axl makes it interesting!
There's 6-7 tracks on Chinese that are pure genius. Madagascar, Sorry, There Was a Time, they're the ones off the top of my head. Fantastic guitar work and the vocals are unreal on some of those.
I do think the Lyrics are fascinating, obviously Axl spent a lot of time refining them.
"Sorry" comes to mind, but "Madagascar" and yes "There was a time" weirdly they would be my standouts on the album as well!!!!!!
Get a room
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :abbath:
Guns N' Roses are shameful carry-on generally.
Arse band.
Quote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 10:52:17 AMChinese Democracy is a better album than Appetite for Destruction
Told this story here before but I burned myself a copy of Chinese Democracy one night while on a GnR buzz. Got about 4 or 5 tracks in and took it out of the player and threw the cd into the fire. First couple of tracks weren't even that bad but then I got it into my head that Axl sounded like Tina Turner and I couldn't shake the thought
Got a comp ticket off a neighbour to see Slash yesterday actually, setlist was mostly his solo stuff which is fairly standard blues rock but just watching the man play was great and the band were tight, they also played Don't Damn Me which was a nice surprise.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 29, 2024, 10:57:19 AMQuote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 10:52:17 AMChinese Democracy is a better album than Appetite for Destruction
Told this story here before but I burned myself a copy of Chinese Democracy one night while on a GnR buzz. Got about 4 or 5 tracks in and took it out of the player and threw the cd into the fire. First couple of tracks weren't even that bad but then I got it into my head that Axl sounded like Tina Turner and I couldn't shake the thought
I have trouble listening to Cirith Ungol as Axl Rose sounds like their vocalist.
I'm not sure this is "controversial" as such, but given the other people who have had the job over the years: Testament never sounded better live than when John Tempesta was behind the kit, and I wish he had made more albums with them too.
Also - Even though their last few albums are decent, they aren't exactly that exciting. They could do with some sort of shake up creatively. A new producer maybe?
And honestly, all due respect to Skolnick, and as unlikely as it is to happen, I wouldn't be too upset if he left and James Murphy came back. Although I guess a major line-up change now might affect their profile.
Quote from: The Wretch on March 29, 2024, 09:06:50 PMAlso - Even though their last few albums are decent, they aren't exactly that exciting. They could do with some sort of shake up creatively. maybe?
They had Hoglan and Digiorgio for their last few, but nearly everything was written solely by Peterson. Letting those two add something would really have elevated lifted those albums
Testament have been a spent force since track 2 on The Gathering.
Quote from: Trev on March 29, 2024, 09:51:24 PMThey had Hoglan and Digiorgio for their last few, but nearly everything was written solely by Peterson. Letting those two add something would really have elevated lifted those albums
I guess, yeah. They need to do something anyway.
Peterson and Billy produced the recent albums too, which is why I mentioned a new producer, someone to challenge them and push them out of the comfort zone a bit.
My favourite album will always be 'The Legacy', but 'The New Order' aside, for me their best records were when they tried something a bit different, be it the more melodic heavy metal elements on 'The Ritual', or the more extreme/modern style of 'The Gathering'.
And 'Low' deserves more respect too. What I wouldn't give for another 'Dog Faced Gods' or 'Chasing Fear".
Still absolutely storming live mind you. I'm looking forward to the gig with Anthrax and Kreator.
Quote from: The Wretch on March 29, 2024, 09:06:50 PMI'm not sure this is "controversial" as such, but given the other people who have had the job over the years: Testament never sounded better live than when John Tempesta was behind the kit, and I wish he had made more albums with them too.
Also - Even though their last few albums are decent, they aren't exactly that exciting. They could do with some sort of shake up creatively. A new producer maybe?
And honestly, all due respect to Skolnick, and as unlikely as it is to happen, I wouldn't be too upset if he left and James Murphy came back. Although I guess a major line-up change now might affect their profile.
I don't recall Murphy having much input on The Gathering?
Like anything he plays on is usually unmistakably him (in a good way), but that album barely registers.
Yeah, he wasn't really given much space to do anything there. I was thinking more along the lines of 'Low' as far as his playing goes. As I say, all due respect to Skolnick, he's a great player, but I don't find his more recent lead work all that memorable. I was just thinking of ways for them to shake things up a bit. And also, I just prefer Murphy as a player in general.
Murphy was sick with his brain tumour during The Gathering so I'd say he wasn't around too much. He has said in interviews that he has no memory of those sessions.
I'm another one in the camp that Low deserves more respect and couldn't agree more on them being done after the 2nd track on The Gathering. The rest of that album is such a let down after those first 2 songs.
Quote from: Ducky on March 29, 2024, 05:23:37 PMQuote from: astfgyl on March 29, 2024, 10:57:19 AMQuote from: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 27, 2024, 10:52:17 AMChinese Democracy is a better album than Appetite for Destruction
Told this story here before but I burned myself a copy of Chinese Democracy one night while on a GnR buzz. Got about 4 or 5 tracks in and took it out of the player and threw the cd into the fire. First couple of tracks weren't even that bad but then I got it into my head that Axl sounded like Tina Turner and I couldn't shake the thought
I have trouble listening to Cirith Ungol as Axl Rose sounds like their vocalist.
Sound for saving me the bother man. One Axl is enough for anyone :laugh:
Megadeths rust in peace while technically brilliant is album that I don't really get a buzz from. Not a bad album by any means, just not a great album to me .
Having been listening to it a few times lately I'm thinking that Schizophrenia is probably better than Beneath The Remains. It's punkier anyway but yeah it feels like that might be controversial. I dunno though.
I've overlooked it so badly over the years that it's like a new album for me all over again and fuck is it ripping
Edit: it's exactly what I'd want from Sepultura
I've overplayed BTR and Arise so much that it's been my go-to Sepultura album for a while now. Mighty stuff, has that nice punky (as you said) balance between rawness/enthusiasm and the slickness of those two.
I know a few people whose favourite is Schizophrenia. They're all wrong too :P :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on May 21, 2024, 11:30:35 PMHaving been listening to it a few times lately I'm thinking that Schizophrenia is probably better than Beneath The Remains. It's punkier anyway but yeah it feels like that might be controversial. I dunno though.
I've overlooked it so badly over the years that it's like a new album for me all over again and fuck is it ripping
Edit: it's exactly what I'd want from Sepultura
This is the correct opinion. Schizophrenia Supremacy.
They really hit a sweet spot there with Schizophrenia, between the death, thrash, punk, groove and even a bit of an industrial feel in places. Can't believe I've been treating it so bad all these years
I know a lad who thinks Morbid Visions is their best release! He's not just saying that to be kvlt, he genuinely listens to it regularly.
Then again, I think Reek of Putrefaction is Carcass' greatest album, so maybe I need my head checked as well.
You both do.
Quote from: Wilbur Whateley on May 22, 2024, 08:44:08 AMI know a lad who thinks Morbid Visions is their best release! He's not just saying that to be kvlt, he genuinely listens to it regularly.
Then again, I think Reek of Putrefaction is Carcass' greatest album, so maybe I need my head checked as well.
they're both great, hard to make out riffs on Reek sometimes though.
I love the manky murkiness of Reek. It's the perfect production for that album.
Quote from: Wilbur Whateley on May 22, 2024, 04:36:23 PMI love the manky murkiness of Reek. It's the perfect production for that album.
There are decent songs buried within (just listen to the rerecordings for B-sides, sessions, etc.), but the production is woeful. Even the band think it's shite.
I stiil have two copies, because I'm a fucking idiot.
I wouldn't trust the band's judgement. They released some awful scutter after Necroticism that they should be more ashamed of.
Heard a few lads say Morbid Visions is the best or near the best Seps album. Baffling.
Schizo has its charms alright, but better than BTR? Come on yer messing now lads.
Oh it's not better, not a chance. But I've played BTR to death, so Schizophrenia is my go-to.
Arise was the first I heard so I'll always choose that as a favourite, even though there's nothing between it and BTR
The latest two are still getting plenty of listens too, only just behind the big three for me
Reek is great, Carcassessess best
Quote from: Wilbur Whateley on May 23, 2024, 11:46:11 AMI wouldn't trust the band's judgement. They released some awful scutter after Necroticism that they should be more ashamed of.
Yep. totally gone off that Heartwork sound since youth, Reek however has just got better over the years. That album cover has still to be topped. mental it was used back in 1988.
Yes, Reek is absolutely savage. I hated it when I bought it around 20 years ago, and sold my copy. Only revisited it recently, and would now put it in my top 10 metal albums.
I haven't posted in this thread in a while........... here goes
* Donington 1988 is the worst show of Iron Maiden's career
* Accident of Birth and Chemical Wedding are better than 95% of Maiden's back catalogue
* Dehumanizer is a top 5 Sabbath album
* The best songs from Load and Reload put together would be the second best Metallica album in their catalogue after Ride the Lightning
* Inamorata is the best song Metallica have released in 25 years
* Youthanasia is the darkest and best Megadeth album and blows away Rust In Peace
* Cathedral Spires is in the top 3 Priest songs ever, and the live pinnacle for JP was the Owens era
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on May 28, 2024, 07:29:19 PM* The best songs from Load and Reload put together would be the second best Metallica album in their catalogue after Ride the Lightning
Wouldn't say second best but the best of the two albums should have been the path they stuck to.
More Danzig (Until it Sleeps could have been on How The Gods Kill)/AIC influenced instead of them being in that weird limbo of trying too hard/can't be arsed since the late 90s.
Curious.. What is the 5 per cent that is better than those Bruce albums?
It's a quandary you throw up. I mean obviously the run up to and including Seventh Son was stellar but those two solo albums are in there fighting their corner too.
I agree with Dehumanizer by the way as a top 5 Sabbath album
And c'mon you can't be dismissing Peace Sells.. out of that Megadeth conversation. The first half alone is untouchable.
More specifically regarding the Dickinson/Maiden issue the only Maiden albums I would rate above Accident Of Birth are AMOLAD, The X Factor, and Somewhere In Time. Chemical Wedding is probably the equal of any other 80s Maiden album.
That is a wild opinion. AMOLAD and X Factor in your top 3 🤯
Here's my main "Controversial Metal Opinion"- & I believe it's 1 I've posted here previously. Burzum is absolute shit. I dunno why I keep tryin with it & I don't understand why I try to make meself like it or "get" it. It's just bollox that sounds like absolute shite. Why would anyone bother when you have from Norway alone; MAYHEM, Satyricon, EMPEROR, Gorgoroth, Darkthrone....not to mention WATAIN, Deathspell Omega, Mgla... & if it's the whole "ambient" vibe argument- XASTHUR has done it way better; & he's shite too. Plus Varg is a fuckin imbecile. The only good thing he ever did was burn down some fuckin churches back in the day. How about you get back to that you fuckin spa. & He's a cunt for murdering Euronymous. He could still be goin strong with MAYHEM now, fuck knows what we missed out on, as much as I love Rune's work. Fuck It/over it/delete
Completely wrong in so many ways.
Quote from: Danny on May 29, 2024, 03:02:45 AMHere's my main "Controversial Metal Opinion"- & I believe it's 1 I've posted here previously. Burzum is absolute shit. I dunno why I keep tryin with it & I don't understand why I try to make meself like it or "get" it. It's just bollox that sounds like absolute shite. Why would anyone bother when you have from Norway alone; MAYHEM, Satyricon, EMPEROR, Gorgoroth, Darkthrone....not to mention WATAIN, Deathspell Omega, Mgla... & if it's the whole "ambient" vibe argument- XASTHUR has done it way better; & he's shite too. Plus Varg is a fuckin imbecile. The only good thing he ever did was burn down some fuckin churches back in the day. How about you get back to that you fuckin spa. & He's a cunt for murdering Euronymous. He could still be goin strong with MAYHEM now, fuck knows what we missed out on, as much as I love Rune's work. Fuck It/over it/delete
That's a lot of energy for a band you don't like. Also Burzum doesn't sound really like any of those bands you listed so that's probably why people would bother.
Quote from: Wilbur Whateley on May 23, 2024, 11:46:11 AMI wouldn't trust the band's judgement. They released some awful scutter after Necroticism that they should be more ashamed of.
I loved Necroticism back in the day but I went back to it there when it was reissued 2 or 3 years ago and found it quite dull. Symposium of Sickness is the best song on there, I'd take Reek over it any day. Reek/Symphonies are genius. Kinda don't care after that.
I'm not a huge fan of Necroticism either, but it's the last thing they released that could be considered decent.
Very passionate about Burzum there, Danny 😄 It's good to see. You're wrong though. There would be no Xasthur without Burzum so not a valid point.
Quote from: Danny on May 29, 2024, 03:02:45 AMHe's a cunt for murdering Euronymous. He could still be goin strong with MAYHEM now, fuck knows what we missed out on, as much as I love Rune's work.
If Euronymous was still alive he'd probably have turned his back on black metal and embraced turtleneck sweaters like Ihsahn.
He'd also most likely be morbidly obese so even if he wanted to play black metal he wouldn't be able because of his bloated fingers.
Yeah it seems like your hatred of Varg is colouring your perception of the music. It's a really original style he has with so much atmosphere on those releases. Weird hypnotic spells. Doesn't seem possible to like the bands you mentioned but hate Filosofem for example.
[/quote]
I loved Necroticism back in the day but I went back to it there when it was reissued 2 or 3 years ago and found it quite dull. Symposium of Sickness is the best song on there, I'd take Reek over it any day. Reek/Symphonies are genius. Kinda don't care after that.
[/quote]
Yeah even Necroticism is weak compared to the first two these days. the complete inverse of how i felt a few years back. i'm playing Reek all the time at the moment since he reminded me how good it is. :abbath:
Symphonies is their peak, obviously but Necroticism (minus the intros) and Surgical Steel are both close behind. Reek is shit, a few decent tracks buried in a dogshit production.
Can't get into the most recent one at all for some reason, there's just nothing there to draw me in.
Swansong is good craic. Not a fucking patch on the rest of the the catalogue but there's some decent bits on it.
I like all of their albums to varying degrees, be it Reek or Swansong.
But Symphonies is definitely my go to.
Carcass were so shit last time I seen them it made me hate all their albums.
I've given Swansong a few listens over the years, not great but it has its moments.
Quote from: Mithrandir on May 29, 2024, 11:14:36 AMCarcass were so shit last time I seen them it made me hate all their albums.
Where was that? Thought they were good last year in Dolans
Necroticism is probably my favourite release to come out of the UK.
Quote from: Paul keohane on May 29, 2024, 02:37:00 PMNecroticism is probably my favourite release to come out of the UK.
I put itself and Heartwork as my top two (mainly as I the taped copy I had had Necroticism on Side a/Heartworm Side B).
Heartwork is easily Carcass' best album, followed by Surgical Steel and then Necroticism.
No Love Lost (along with the SYL's Detox and Napalm Death's cover of Incinerator) in the last 15 minutes of some random episode of Headbangers' Ball is what saved my interest in metal circa 1998 when I was getting into it and you couldn't escape nu-metal.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on May 29, 2024, 02:40:47 PMQuote from: Paul keohane on May 29, 2024, 02:37:00 PMNecroticism is probably my favourite release to come out of the UK.
I put itself and Heartworm as my top two (mainly as I the taped copy I had had Necroticism on Side a/Heartworm Side B).
Quote from: Ducky on May 29, 2024, 03:17:20 PMHeartwork is easily Carcass' best album, followed by Surgical Steel and then Necroticism.
No Love Lost (along with the SYL's Detox and Napalm Death's cover of Incinerator) in the last 15 minutes of some random episode of Headbangers' Ball is what saved my interest in metal circa 1998 when I was getting into it and you couldn't escape nu-metal.
If it was 1998 it was Super rock with that dimwit Julia Valet.😂 Definitely recall that trio of vids as I'd be camped at the record button for decent bands.
I think Necroticism is the perfect blend of very early filthy Carcass,and the more polished sounding Heartwork.Its an amazing album, full of bangers!.
Infernal Love is the best Therapy? album. Troublegum runs it close but I get sick of that quicker. Nurse has the best sound but the songs are less good for the most part. The demos are also excellent when they're good but not enough as a whole.
I don't even think that's controversial but the fact they won't even play any of it live says that it might be
They always play a couple of songs from Infernal love....a few years back the played the whole album in Dublin, good gig
Quote from: Don Gately on May 29, 2024, 01:20:34 PMQuote from: Mithrandir on May 29, 2024, 11:14:36 AMCarcass were so shit last time I seen them it made me hate all their albums.
Where was that? Thought they were good last year in Dolans
In Auckland, New Zealand. Was a terrible setlist and Jeff was trying to fight someone in the audience, was pretty cringe.
Quote from: astfgyl on May 29, 2024, 10:54:02 PMInfernal Love is the best Therapy? album. Troublegum runs it close but I get sick of that quicker. Nurse has the best sound but the songs are less good for the most part. The demos are also excellent when they're good but not enough as a whole.
I don't even think that's controversial but the fact they won't even play any of it live says that it might be
Infernal Love is damn near perfect. Suicide Pact is overrated as fuck.
Infernal Love is class alright, though it took a long time for me to come around to it, just within the last 10 years I reckon. I splashed out a few years ago and got the Japanese version through Discogs, it cuts out the David Holmes stuff and runs like a standard rock album. Far superior IMO.
Still wouldn't be in my top 3 Therapy? albums though.
Quote from: Carnage on May 30, 2024, 12:11:20 AMInfernal Love is class alright, though it took a long time for me to come around to it, just within the last 10 years I reckon. I splashed out a few years ago and got the Japanese version through Discogs, it cuts out the David Holmes stuff and runs like a standard rock album. Far superior IMO.
Still wouldn't be in my top 3 Therapy? albums though.
Ah lad which 3 are better? Also I doubt I'd like it as much without the superfluous David Holmes shit I reckon it adds a bit of a personality to the thing as a whole even though the pieces are tbh meaningless
Nurse is untouchable but Babyteeth comes close. Infernal Love next. Then Troublegum. Then who cares.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 30, 2024, 12:37:54 AMNurse is untouchable but Babyteeth comes close. Infernal Love next. Then Troublegum. Then who cares.
We do
Edit: no sorry I misunderstood you're right with the sentiment just not the order but the same few albums
Quote from: astfgyl on May 30, 2024, 12:16:22 AMQuote from: Carnage on May 30, 2024, 12:11:20 AMInfernal Love is class alright, though it took a long time for me to come around to it, just within the last 10 years I reckon. I splashed out a few years ago and got the Japanese version through Discogs, it cuts out the David Holmes stuff and runs like a standard rock album. Far superior IMO.
Still wouldn't be in my top 3 Therapy? albums though.
Ah lad which 3 are better? Also I doubt I'd like it as much without the superfluous David Holmes shit I reckon it adds a bit of a personality to the thing as a whole even though the pieces are tbh meaningless
I just find them annoying TBH, I just want to hear the songs.
I'd put Pleasure Death (an EP I know but anyway), Nurse, Troublegum, High Anxiety and Cleave above it myself, they'd be my favourites.
A lot of people don't rate Cleave but I thought it was mighty, their best & best sounding album for a long time. They blew the roof off the place on that tour too - I saw them in the Róisín in Galway, a nice small room for it.
Cleave is a banger. Saw them in Hamburg with Ondt Blod supporting on that tour and it was one of the best gigs I've ever been to.
Don't know if this is controversial or not, but never liked Therapy. Always thought they were overrated.
The Japanese version of Infernal Love pisses all over the regular version.
The Holmes stuff between tracks really annoyed me after a while.
Not as much of a gripe, but I never really liked stories and utterly dislike the use of the saxaphone in the song.
For some reason Therapy? just had a knack for releasing gimmicky shite songs as lead singles when there were obviously so many better on the albums.
Babyteeth is my fav record ever, full stop. The visceral rage, dancy rhythms, the use of samples, just shit cool. Nothing else sounds like it...
Quote from: Putrefaction on May 30, 2024, 11:44:31 AMBabyteeth is my fav record ever, full stop. The visceral rage, dancy rhythms, the use of samples, just shit cool. Nothing else sounds like it...
It is a beaut.
Quote from: jobrok1 on May 30, 2024, 10:56:06 AMThe Japanese version of Infernal Love pisses all over the regular version.
The Holmes stuff between tracks really annoyed me after a while.
Not as much of a gripe, but I never really liked stories and utterly dislike the use of the saxaphone in the song.
For some reason Therapy? just had a knack for releasing gimmicky shite songs as lead singles when there were obviously so many better on the albums.
Agreed. The deep cuts on the album - Moment of Clarity, Jude the Obscene, Bad Mother are what makes it great. If I never heard Stories again I would be fine with that - the only good thing about it is a riff stolen from a Wildhearts song.
In order for meself... Infernal Love > Trouble Gum > Nurse > Pleasure Death/Baby Teeth > Semi-detached (last one is probably controversial).
I quite like High Anxiety and Cleave too.
Just came across their "Greatest Hits 2020 Versions"... sounds like re-recordings? It's not necessarily bad, just a bit pointless. Though the version of Diane on this is closer to the Husker Du original as it's typical rock instruments. Opal Mantra is on it too - is there anything with the original release on it that's handy at all?
It's a bonus track on the deluxe reissue of Troublegum, but you'd pick up the EP for nothing on Discogs. It's also on the Born In A Crash and Hats Off To The Insane EPs & Stories: The Singles Collection, they're all easy enough to track down.
The 2020 Versions (initial release was The Abbey Road Versions) are rerecordings alright. A bit pointless alright, but they had a few compilations out anyway. I think that was marking their 30th anniversary, a tie-in with the book, maybe?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 30, 2024, 11:55:10 AMQuote from: Putrefaction on May 30, 2024, 11:44:31 AMBabyteeth is my fav record ever, full stop. The visceral rage, dancy rhythms, the use of samples, just shit cool. Nothing else sounds like it...
It is a beaut.
Quote from: Carnage on May 30, 2024, 03:46:44 PMIt's a bonus track on the deluxe reissue of Troublegum, but you'd pick up the EP for nothing on Discogs. It's also on the Born In A Crash and Hats Off To The Insane EPs & Stories: The Singles Collection, they're all easy enough to track down.
The 2020 Versions (initial release was The Abbey Road Versions) are rerecordings alright. A bit pointless alright, but they had a few compilations out anyway. I think that was marking their 30th anniversary, a tie-in with the book, maybe?
In my infinite dumb fuckery I scrolled right past the Stories: Single Collection on Spotify. Whoops :laugh:
And listening to those re-recordings got me thinking that I'm so glad that Neil Cooper has been in the band (for donkey years now in fairness) as his style is very similar to Ewing's, which is a huge part of Therapy's sound.
I've got Semi-detached on right now, and while Hopkins is a decent drummer, he just doesn't have that mad energy the other two lads have.
Very true. Hopkins is a very straight player compared to the others. You can tell Cooper really paid attention to Fyfe, he gets how much his approach drove that early stuff and made them stand apart from other bands.
Quote from: The Wretch on May 31, 2024, 11:19:48 PMVery true. Hopkins is a very straight player compared to the others. You can tell Cooper really paid attention to Fyfe, he gets how much his approach drove that early stuff and made them stand apart from other bands.
My first listen of High Anxiety had me reaching for the album sleeve to see who was drumming on it as it sounded like Ewing had rejoined them.
How was Hopkins live? I assume he'd have to get able to do Ewing's material justice to get the gig in the first place.
Only time I say them live (much to my shame/dismay) was at Ozzfest, where Keith Baxter (RIP) of Skyclad/3 Colours Red was touring with them.
Quote from: Anvil on May 30, 2024, 10:45:41 AMDon't know if this is controversial or not, but never liked Therapy. Always thought they were overrated.
To an extent, they are but when they're good they're great
Quote from: Ducky on June 01, 2024, 03:56:00 PMQuote from: The Wretch on May 31, 2024, 11:19:48 PMVery true. Hopkins is a very straight player compared to the others. You can tell Cooper really paid attention to Fyfe, he gets how much his approach drove that early stuff and made them stand apart from other bands.
My first listen of High Anxiety had me reaching for the album sleeve to see who was drumming on it as it sounded like Ewing had rejoined them.
How was Hopkins live? I assume he'd have to get able to do Ewing's material justice to get the gig in the first place.
Only time I say them live (much to my shame/dismay) was at Ozzfest, where Keith Baxter (RIP) of Skyclad/3 Colours Red was touring with them.
He was meant to be ok live according to mates who had seen them round that era before he fucked off to indie shite and they got Cooper on drums.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on June 01, 2024, 04:04:07 PMQuote from: Ducky on June 01, 2024, 03:56:00 PMQuote from: The Wretch on May 31, 2024, 11:19:48 PMVery true. Hopkins is a very straight player compared to the others. You can tell Cooper really paid attention to Fyfe, he gets how much his approach drove that early stuff and made them stand apart from other bands.
My first listen of High Anxiety had me reaching for the album sleeve to see who was drumming on it as it sounded like Ewing had rejoined them.
How was Hopkins live? I assume he'd have to get able to do Ewing's material justice to get the gig in the first place.
Only time I say them live (much to my shame/dismay) was at Ozzfest, where Keith Baxter (RIP) of Skyclad/3 Colours Red was touring with them.
He was meant to be ok live according to mates who had seen them round that era before he fucked off to indie shite and they got Cooper on drums.
Had a few cans with the Therapy? lads a couple of years ago and they were as sound as a brown trout. Started winding up Cooper asking him for Fyfe Ewing's autograph and he was laughing his bollix off calling me a cheeky cunt. Fierce nice chap altogether and the other two were A1 as well. All Andy Cairns wanted to do was talk to me about Chelsea the pure legend
A lot of THERAPY talk there- perhaps ye lads need some actual life counselling sessions more than your controversial opinionated bollox talk on here hmmm ;)
But YEah THERapy? is pretty cool I guess- I like the Nurse, Troublegum, Inheranus Love records a lot too...but I honestly don't listen to them very often. Some shite albums since too & even especially shite songs on them otherwise deadly aforementioned albums regardless. I have maybe as much interest & nostalgia in them for me as the One Minute Silence records from the same 90s/early 00s Irish altmetalrock era.
Quote from: Danny on May 29, 2024, 03:02:45 AMBurzum is absolute shite...
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 29, 2024, 03:06:06 AMCompletely wrong in so many ways.
Well fuck man, fair enough- if you- Andrew McLovin; thee Master record poster of Metal Warfare *& Metal Ireland* say so- it must be so!
Despite your charming concise virtue there & elite talents in midnight gardening listening to Nurse, & you even having my genuine humble respect as a real/respectable Irish scene musician, as a member of the original MALTHESERSIANS lineup & I kinda remember seeing you perform WofH live supporting MAYHEM at some stage?. A wee bit all over the fuckin gaff if I may be so bold, but fvck it I was too. It is fuckin MAYHEM ffs. but in compliment to you, I'd rather be listening to your WotH than poxy Burzum. But yeah you give me no reason why I am wrong. Please tell me then good Sir yourself- nice & concisely;- what are even just some of the SO many things that I am missing about Burzum?
Quote from: open face surgery on May 29, 2024, 09:44:55 AMYou're wrong though. There would be no Xasthur without Burzum so not a valid point.
No; I don't think I Am wrong. Those kinda things really are so arbitrary when you think about it, I don't care to say original is always the best as if we as metal music fans have some poxy duty to be trve or some ol shite! Fuck that. Many fuckin metal bands out there who have blatantly ripped off other bands work have done it better. For example, in Death metal; I find that a lot of the bands especially on the prog/tech/brutal end are intentionally out to out-do each other as in more brutal, tech, extreme, whatever...& a lot of the time they actually DO out-do one another-
to the point I just couldn't be fucked with listening to that other band that did it nearly the same but not as well anymore.. you know? & so many bands for me have just deleted & replaced other bands- so it just comes down to one's unique/personal relationship with music & all that shite ultimately wouldn't you think by this specific mental fuckin thread itself literally proves!
But likewise, just as Mc Andy Sir is as cryptic & cool as fuck with a statement that doesn't really say shit... -Please feel free to tell me why it is I am wrong & why it is you hold Burzum in such high regard. Even in your usual concise as fuck statement manner is welcome. & yes I guess despite honestly thinkin Bursum's overated shit- I concede as I did previously- I want to like it. Even Lost Wisdom or that first song from the Filosofem record is just boring to me. what the fuck does this do that even fuckin VENOM or BATHORY for prime examples not do- a decade earlier imo way fuckin better in terms of raw deadly evil black fuckin metal already ?
Quote from: Mithrandir on May 29, 2024, 04:05:24 AMThat's a lot of energy for a band you don't like. Also Burzum doesn't sound really like any of those bands you listed so that's probably why people would bother.
No. I don't think it is at all really- when I come on here for a few mins a couple times a week I am usually enjoying VERY rare time to meself, blasting metal enjoyin a vanilla latte like a french cunt & a nice joint recently procured by home delivery from the local weed dealer monglord....& it is absolute a pleasure to read a few lines of Irish metal fans opinions & so on & then what a few seconds to type a reply or start a thread is nothing but near joy.
I take it you have never worked a 12+ hour shift?- That; my friend requires some serious energy; nevermind endurance, patience & discipline. I mean let's just try have a bit of perspective & context or even logic; here; No?
& Honestly I would say No- they do sound pretty fuckin similar & could be filed under "black metal" right?
I dunno Man- I love deeply a lot of of black metal bands & records; but I just don't get anything from Burzum. I am curious what it is though clearly. Actually 2 of my fav black metal bands, Primordial & SHINING, both Alan & Niklas have said Burzum is THE best black metal band-& I have just never seen or got that at all.
Anyway I would say; music is really just some random sounds for your earholes to enjoy during your brief experience of chaos at the end of the(yours & mine & all our) day(s), Sir.
:abbath:
Leaving the controversial nature of Varg's personal life aside and even his huge influence over the subsequent black metal scene, his music stands as timeless and unique. Even among his peers his sound was stripped back and pure. You can hear him finding his feet in the very early stuff, with thrash parts, solos and obvious nods to Bathory littered throughout. Even those parts are made somewhat unique by his howling style of vocals and primitive recording style. But in a very short space of time, and over a small number of releases his sound developed into a manifestation of true vision. Maybe a sound only achievable by a single person with an incredibly vivid vision, maybe only achievable by one of society's legitimate outsiders. His music, though often incredibly simple, is profound. His lyrics are beyond time too. The lyrics to Dunkelheit are stunning, and to consider he wrote them as a teenager is mind boggling. His music too. It is concise despite being drawn out, it's beautiful and haunting while being raw and ugly. He is a man of paradox who made paradoxical music. His choice of artwork, everything... His best music achieves what all good music hopes to- it stands outside time. And despite a million copycats trying to capture that same magic, and mostly failing (which tells its own story) his music remains untouched and pure.
He always seems to do more with less. I find as well, over time, I'm drawn to different albums by him. That evolution of sound covers various mental states or moods and atmospheres that suit me at different times. Even the prison stuff is growing on me. And I think Belus and Fallen are brilliant as well, and they show some further evolution within his sound.
Where to begin with Burzum? Never listened to them
I've never listened to anything bar the first 4 albums and the Aske EP. I'd have trouble picking a favourite from Det som engang var, Hvis lyset tar oss and Filosofem and don't think you can go wrong with any of those.
Debut for me but you'd be as well off working through them in order. There's a notable progression as they go on, Filosofem is a very different beast from the debut.
Hvis Lyset... would be my favourite but they're generally all good up to Filosofem. The last couple are good too but I never got into the prison stuff at all
The prison stuff never did anything for me. But yeah, the first four and Aske are all savage. I really like the post prison metal albums too.
Quote from: The Wretch on June 02, 2024, 05:24:54 PMThe prison stuff never did anything for me. But yeah, the first four and Aske are all savage. I really like the post prison metal albums too.
agree with all except i think Belus is by far the best post prison one. he really did nail some scary vocals on those first few. he said he doesnt like them and much prefers the filosofem vocals. i love both.
Yeah, both are great. The original vocal style suits the early stuff, I think it was perfect for what he was doing at the time, something more conventional wouldn't have been so engaging. And I love the mix of harsh and clean spoken style vocals on Belus.
Sanguisugabogg would be a great band if they didn't have that shit snare sound (and a better drummer overall).
Quote from: The Wretch on June 03, 2024, 08:19:15 PMYeah, both are great. The original vocal style suits the early stuff, I think it was perfect for what he was doing at the time, something more conventional wouldn't have been so engaging. And I love the mix of harsh and clean spoken style vocals on Belus.
yeah, very much agree with that.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on June 04, 2024, 04:40:31 PMSanguisugabogg would be a great band if they didn't have that shit snare sound (and a better drummer overall).
Just listened to one of their songs as it popped up on my Youtube feed... don't think I could listen to too much more of that drum sound. It is such a distraction.
EMPEROR!
TRVE UNHOLY METAL HAILS UNTO THEE! ETc. :abbath:
I have nowt really but humble respect for this legendary True Norwegian Black Metal band. Their gig there here recently was fuckin deadly. For me; thee best black metal gig in a while. (Though Primordial's show was essential for me, I tend to see Primordial as Ireland's premier equally as Heavy or Celtic as Black metal band.)
But yeah I can't lie to meself; as much as this likely is a would be a "controversial metal opinion" among many heads here; especially among the trvest of vs- But for me man- Prometheus is their best work & their record I listen to & enjoy the most easily. Empty just draws me in every time. The guitar work between Ihsahn & Samoth is deadly- progressive bordering vaguely fretboard wankery but still very evil & engaging riffs. I've always loved the vid for Empty too; the shots of the forest have stuck with me considerably for over what; 2 fuckin decades now ffs.. Great production on the record I think too; the little electronic/synth bits like in the kinda breakdown part in Empty are actually tastefully executed & pretty cool.
But here- Don't get me wrong, In The Nightside Eclipse is a hell of a legendary record, let alone it's undeniably an impressive work especially considering the band were pretty fuckin young when recording & conceiving it. & it's iconic Artwork really drew you in to a weird dark medieval or Tolkien type worldscape; not to mention it being released in 94- it was an exciting time for metal in general (for those welcome of/open to groove/nu) but the scene in Norway with Black metal, Satanic shenanigans & Church burnings, a bloody Murder or 2 even; it was/is a fairly exciting scene to observe, even though for me I concede it is kinda hindsight; as it's more that I got into the whole TNBM scene a few years after it went down after learnin about it all. Likely; this as I was only 10 in 95 & still thought Michael Jackson's Thriller was the coolest thing I had ever heard or seen; despite getting into rock & metal music.
But yeah- My issue with In The Nightside is that the production is too flat or dull or something (& yes I've tried various remasters); & it all kinda blurs together too much not in an enjoyable way for me- & maybe moreso for me there is just too much 2nd hand casio soundin keyboard synth work going on & too high in the mix muddling up the whole sound. Saying that, one just cannot deny the brilliance of songs like "Cosmic Keys to me Creations & Coffee" & "I Am the Black Wizard from Limerick"- these songs both from Nightside & the EMPEROR s/t release from 93 are insanely good & easily among the blackest of black metal songs. Live they were pure fuckin evil soundin.
Lastly; I Will say. IHSAHN's fuckin solo shit can be pretty fuckin excellent for the most part so I seem to disagree with a fair few comments I've read round here. But for me I like it; I admit; as he has put pretty fuckin prolific with records; there's a couple I just wasn't that into or give enough time to or even the odd song here or there was I dunno just a bit borin I guess. But man the first 2 albums he did have some insanely dark EMPERORish & Luciferian songs on them I love. But for the most part since moving on from EMPEROR & the whole Satanic freaks from The Matrix look; & perhaps alienated some imbeciles with his fashion choices (honestly who gives a fuck what he wanna wears-grow up) I think what he's really done is deeply focused on his Work; his craft considerably & his guitar talent now rivals the wizardry like guitar virtuosity & dexterity of a master like Robert Fripp easily. :-*
I have always understood people's aversion to The Matrix influence in black metal as a disappointment with more than just the shitty look (and it was shitty) but encompassing a move away from what is often referred to as the organic sound and style employed by the founders of Norwegian black metal. Much of the great early 90s stuff was a response to the polishing up of, over-technicality and move away from satanic or pagan or antiquated timelessness (paradoxes abound) esoteric themes to something modern and futuristic, stylistically a bit clinical and dull and, yes, dorky looking. BM didn't seem scary or mysterious and enticing to me in the late 90s when I would have been at an age to start really delving into underground stuff. It was all trench coats and new rocks which looked shite. It was only with the rebirth of the darker and obscure imagery in the 00s where my imagination was fully captured and I began to delve in to it properly. I think industrial and goth can be brought in to BM effectively, but in the late 90s it was either dance floor goth or knife wielding barbwire WW2 obsession and neither appealed to my imagination then. I'm more forgiving and at least open to that stuff, but often it still fails to move me.
What is going on here?
Nightside wouldn't be what it is without that production. It's perfect, almost bordering on too much at once. It's like everything is pushed to the limits and trying to overwhelm your senses.
The leather future warrior gear looked silly on the later promo pics . Samoth looked out of place in that style.
He looks a far more imposing figure nowadays. Ultra serious but understated.
Marduk can sing about WW2 all day long for me as it's always delivered with suck ferocity and belief.
If the last Gjendød album came out at the same time as the established classics of would knock a few of them off the pedestal.
On a different point Frank Bello hopping around on stage with. Satyricon looks wrong.
Satyr looks like a fatty from a shit biker movie as well.
'Frank Bello hopping around stage with Satyricon' really is a bile inducing sentence :laugh:
Oh well, I might as well put it out there, since The Matrix influence has been mentioned. ,,Animatronics" by The Kovenant will be popping up in my drunken playlist until I die.
Don't judge me, I was young when it came out, I fell in love. There is couple goosebumps inducing moments there even for my present-self.
This is a nuts, mccartney mad into metal it seems. https://youtu.be/I3M9iYfdDzo?si=U3ynaxtc_XV7iM-_
:laugh: :laugh: Please tell me you know it's fake.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Iliketortles on June 10, 2024, 12:09:03 PMThis is a nuts, mccartney mad into metal it seems. https://youtu.be/I3M9iYfdDzo?si=U3ynaxtc_XV7iM-_
Yeah that's Bradley Hall taking the piss.
Quote from: open face surgery on June 10, 2024, 12:20:23 PM:laugh: :laugh: Please tell me you know it's fake.
Aw damn. Was hoping he would collab with CC on a death metal cover of Love Me Do.
Ah man that's hilarious you thought that was real, it's a very well done video in fairness. Love when the vocals come in and McCartney points to his ear as if to say "what's he saying".
Lol
Bradley Hall is a daft lad. He comes across like he can't stand metal, then does a video of himself playing the guitar parts to Rust in Peace in one take.
Quote from: Don Gately on June 13, 2024, 09:24:47 AMAh man that's hilarious you thought that was real, it's a very well done video in fairness. Love when the vocals come in and McCartney points to his ear as if to say "what's he saying".
Lol
Of course it was real whatareyeonabout. Juust ook at this REAL performance for the Nobel Peace Prize!! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I20Jhpbonn4
Quote from: Ducky on June 13, 2024, 11:31:12 AMBradley Hall is a daft lad. He comes across like he can't stand metal, then does a video of himself playing the guitar parts to Rust in Peace in one take.
Yeah he's absurdly talented but tends to lean into the worst parts of annoying YouTuber for clicks.
Monstrosity - Imperial Doom is Corpsegrinder's best vocal performance.
Yep, I can go along with that for sure.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on June 15, 2024, 02:50:51 PMQuote from: Ducky on June 13, 2024, 11:31:12 AMBradley Hall is a daft lad. He comes across like he can't stand metal, then does a video of himself playing the guitar parts to Rust in Peace in one take.
Yeah he's absurdly talented but tends to lean into the worst parts of annoying YouTuber for clicks.
Yeah he's like a worse version of 66Samus (also a talented and annoying bugger) with his liking of flatulence. 'Sake.
Quote from: open face surgery on June 20, 2024, 10:33:00 PMMonstrosity - Imperial Doom is Corpsegrinder's best vocal performance.
wouldn't be too hard .he is mediocre at best .
Shattered is the best tune on Cowboys From Hell. Album is so good that's bound to be controversial Even though it's not to me.
Cemetery Gates is by far the worst which might be controversial but I wouldn't think as much so
Shattered is indeed a banger, pity Anselmo didn't keep up the falsettos on later records.
It's the vocals that give it that edge above the rest of the album. Fuckin love it
Shattered rules but what about Message in Blood?? No falsetto but a ripper.
Message In Blood is fucking great too. Imagine how good it would be with a little bit of falsetto.
I'd say it's a given that they won't be playing Shattered any time on the reunion tour.
Primal Concrete Sledge is another belter on there too. Fuck it I'll have to throw the album on
Cowboys From Hell is still their best album as far as I'm concerned. Nice mix of trad metal, thrash energy and intensity, and just enough of the "groove metal" thing to make it unique. I rarely listen to any of the others now to be honest.
Also, 'Power Metal' is a cracker. I get why they maybe distance themselves from the Terry Glaze era, but that album is great. They should have reissued it. Even change the cover if need be.
I only have Cowboys on tape. I should pick it up on CD to give it, and myself, a new lease of life on the drive to work. It's my favorite too.
Here's 1 to cheer yis all up no doubt. ABBATH's solo records shit all over & are way more fun than IMMORTAL's- besides maybe 5 listenable songs at most.
Also Burzum still suck ass.
So does Agalloch- I'd much rather listen to fuck all- or me wife shittin on about make up, fake tan & Nikki fuckin Minaj. :-X
Quote from: Danny on July 06, 2024, 11:36:17 PMHere's 1 to cheer yis all up no doubt. ABBATH's solo records shit all over & are way more fun than IMMORTAL's- besides maybe 5 listenable songs at most.
Also Burzum still suck ass.
So does Agalloch- I'd much rather listen to fuck all- or me wife shittin on about make up, fake tan & Nikki fuckin Minaj. :-X
I'll slap the arse off you for that Burzum comment. Proper running round the table wooden spoon job. If it wasn't the controversial thread you'd be grounded for at least a month
I is the best thing Abbath has been involved with.
The Abbath solo albums and the Demonaz/Immortal solo albums just prove they need to work together in some capacity produce their best work.
Altars Of Madness is brilliant but the weakest of the first 3 MA albums.
Quote from: Circlepit on July 07, 2024, 09:47:01 AMAltars Of Madness is brilliant but the weakest of the first 3 MA albums.
Agreed. When they got out of the comfort zone on Blessed/Covenant that's when they came into their own.
Quote from: Carnage on July 07, 2024, 04:36:56 AMI is the best thing Abbath has been involved with.
Haven't listened to enough Immortal to have a strong opinion on Abbaths output, but that I album is fucking brilliant alright
Quote from: Danny on July 06, 2024, 11:36:17 PMHere's 1 to cheer yis all up no doubt. ABBATH's solo records shit all over & are way more fun than IMMORTAL's- besides maybe 5 listenable songs at most.
Also Burzum still suck ass.
So does Agalloch- I'd much rather listen to fuck all- or me wife shittin on about make up, fake tan & Nikki fuckin Minaj. :-X
What are you huffing, Danny boy? :laugh: At the Heart of Winter is the last good album Abbath was involved in.
You're right about Agalloch though.
Damned In Black and Sons Of Northern Darkness are cracking. Even All Shall Fall is decent. And yes, the 'I' album is mighty.
Quote from: Ducky on June 13, 2024, 11:31:12 AMBradley Hall is a daft lad. He comes across like he can't stand metal, then does a video of himself playing the guitar parts to Rust in Peace in one take.
Sadly, I think his comedy shtick is what's required to get any attention from the kids these days.
I will say this though, after 30 plus years of playing guitar, I can now sweep pick because of his lessons.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on July 07, 2024, 10:45:18 AMQuote from: Circlepit on July 07, 2024, 09:47:01 AMAltars Of Madness is brilliant but the weakest of the first 3 MA albums.
Agreed. When they got out of the comfort zone on Blessed/Covenant that's when they came into their own.
Totally agree with this. I'd rate the 1st 4 MA as follows- Covenant-Blessed-Domination-Altars
But even Altars is brilliant. Might even beat out Domination if not for Where The Slime Live.
Covenant really is a fuckin masterful record. World Of Shit, Sworn To The Black...fuckin God Of Emptiness. Fuckin untouchable
I'LL TAKE YOUR SOUL & YOU'LL BE LIKE ME - IN EMPTINESSSSSS
BOOOW TO ME FAITHFULLYYY--BOWW TO ME SPLENDIDLYYY
FFS it's excellence
BATS is top dog for me, it sounds like nothing else, incredible variety but just flows flawlessly. Covenant next, then Altars and Domination, but it's close. You can't go wrong with putting any of them on for a spin.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on July 08, 2024, 07:50:42 PMBATS is top dog for me, it sounds like nothing else, incredible variety but just flows flawlessly. Covenant next, then Altars and Domination, but it's close. You can't go wrong with putting any of them on for a spin.
Still remember the day I got Blessed.. on tape. Got home and listened to it about 5 times in a row. Blown away !
I thought yous were on about the Gama Bomb album BATS for a second there
Quote from: Mr Barlow on July 08, 2024, 08:57:59 PMQuote from: Bürggermeister on July 08, 2024, 07:50:42 PMBATS is top dog for me, it sounds like nothing else, incredible variety but just flows flawlessly. Covenant next, then Altars and Domination, but it's close. You can't go wrong with putting any of them on for a spin.
Still remember the day I got Blessed.. on tape. Got home and listened to it about 5 times in a row. Blown away !
Same, I spent that whole summer with that in the walkman. Their best for me as well, I'd rank them BATS > Covenant > AOM > Domination > the five decent tracks on Illud as an EP. Zero interest in the Tucker material, I've never liked any of it.
Altars is my favourite, but it was a very formative album for me so it will always be one of those special ones.
I suppose if I was looking at it more objectively and less nostalgic, I'd probably agree that Blessed is the better album though
DCBA for me as it's the order I first heard them in. That one/two punch of Domninate/Where The Slime Lives had me hooked!
Surprised there's so much love for Domination! That album is bog standard compared to the first 3. Formulas Fatal to the Flesh pisses on Domination. Even Gateways to Annihilation is better.
I reckon its because Domination is a more accessible album relevantly speaking
Quote from: Count Magnus on July 08, 2024, 09:27:44 PMSurprised there's so much love for Domination! That album is bog standard compared to the first 3. Formulas Fatal to the Flesh pisses on Domination. Even Gateways to Annihilation is better.
I prefer Domination out of the first four. Mostly down to the production.
Further controversial MA opinion - Gateways is their best album. I have no idea why either :laugh:
Quote from: Thorn on July 08, 2024, 09:34:39 PMI reckon its because Domination is a more accessible album relevantly speaking
That's definitely an element, album is full of hooks!
I've never enjoyed Tucker as a vocalist. FFTTF/GTA have some class songs on them, but you do miss the clarity that Dave brought to the band.
Tucker got a bit of the mushmouth to his style.
Didn't Tucker get ran out of Cork too?
Yeah compared to Vincent, Tucker's less defined style definitely was a sea change for Morbid Angel, hard liners would say it wasn't 'proper' Morbid Angel any more. Trey's riffs were largely present and correct but Tucker's vocals compared to Vincent's had a dumbing down effect. I like Steve Tucker. I like what he contributed to Morbid Angel. It was just that stepping into the main man's dusty old cowboys boots that was always against him.
Quote from: Thorn on July 08, 2024, 10:28:03 PMYeah compared to Vincent, Tucker's less defined style definitely was a sea change for Morbid Angel, hard liners would say it wasn't 'proper' Morbid Angel any more. Trey's riffs were largely present and correct but Tucker's vocals compared to Vincent's had a dumbing down effect. I like Steve Tucker. I like what he contributed to Morbid Angel. It was just that stepping into the main man's dusty old cowboys boots that was always against him.
To paraphrase The Wire "Come at death metal Don Dokken, you best not miss!"
Yep,.Pretty much,.I must look into paraphrasing
Quote from: Count Magnus on July 08, 2024, 09:27:44 PMSurprised there's so much love for Domination! That album is bog standard compared to the first 3. Formulas Fatal to the Flesh pisses on Domination.
This I do agree with.
I'm torn on whether Altars or Blessed is my favourite, depending on the day/my mood. I'd also rate Abominations and Thy Kingdom Come really highly.
After that, I'd say Covenant > Formulas > Domination > Gateways > Heretic > Kingdoms > Illud.
I'd rate Blessed highest, with Altars and Covenant in joint second place. Abominations is great as well. Domination just sounds very dull in comparison.
Never listened to Heretic for some reason! I must give it a spin.
I forgot about Abominations, it's decent alright. Had a look there and it seems Altars is the only one I have on CD, I must rectify that.
Quote from: Ducky on July 08, 2024, 10:05:11 PMQuote from: Count Magnus on July 08, 2024, 09:27:44 PMSurprised there's so much love for Domination! That album is bog standard compared to the first 3. Formulas Fatal to the Flesh pisses on Domination. Even Gateways to Annihilation is better.
I prefer Domination out of the first four. Mostly down to the production.
Further controversial MA opinion - Gateways is their best album. I have no idea why either :laugh:
Shame on you for your disgusting pro-Domination comments.
I do enjoy Gateways. It's a solid album, just not up there with the first 3 and Fatal.
Domination is great, albeit my personal least favourite of the first four. Wouldn't call it bog standard either, since, love or hate it, it's absolutely iconic in its sound and atmosphere. Each of the first four are in their own way, which is the very feat that made MA stand out from the pack for so long :abbath: :abbath:
Agree with Mr. BSC here, it has such a vibe (right down to the obnoxiously-coloured sleeve).
Just perusing MA's MA entry - the non-CD versions of AoM don't feature Lord of All Fevers and Plague?! ??? ??? ???
That's one of their best songs full stop, and having it sit just before Chapel of Ghouls is chef's kiss.
Covenant is the absolute best.
That swirly dirty guitar sound is just savage. The vocal performance is brilliant.
Formulas is like sone really long computer have soundtrack with death metal added.
It's still brilliant and I don't think any other band would have gotten away with it.
Altars, Covenant or Formulas for number one, depending on the day, followed by Domination and then Gateways.
Blessed are the sick is my personal favourite, probably because it was the first one I heard.
I'd enjoy Morbid Angel a whole lot more if Sandoval wasn't such a one trick pony.
He's very good at that trick (going fast as fuck), but it kinda makes all their songs bleed together.
Quote from: Ducky on July 18, 2024, 04:37:38 PMI'd enjoy Morbid Angel a whole lot more if Sandoval wasn't such a one trick pony.
He's very good at that trick (going fast as fuck), but it kinda makes all their songs bleed together.
What sort of craziness is this?
Quote from: Circlepit on July 18, 2024, 06:51:07 PMQuote from: Ducky on July 18, 2024, 04:37:38 PMI'd enjoy Morbid Angel a whole lot more if Sandoval wasn't such a one trick pony.
He's very good at that trick (going fast as fuck), but it kinda makes all their songs bleed together.
What sort of craziness is this?
He's got fuck all going for his playing other than speed. Boring as fuck to listen to for extended periods.
Then there's shit like the intro to Terrorizer's "Ripped to Shreds". If I heard a local band playing something like that I'd think they plucked first lad they found at the rehearsal studio to drum for them.
Ah, would ya stop!?! Sandoval is a king, he has plenty of dynamic.
There's controversial, and then there is just plain wrong. Fantastic drummer. His sense of timing and movement is incredible, even when you listen to their slower stuff, there is an immense sense of groove and dynamic, and unrivaled creativity. And as I've said before, he was a bigger loss musically to Morbid Angel than Vincent leaving ever was.
The difference between MA with Sandoval, compared to Tim Yeung and Scott Fuller is painfully obvious. Which is no knock on those guys, both are hugely accomplished players, but even they couldn't replicate what Pete brought to that band.
There's a good dozen "tricks" in this one track alone, but the way they're combined reveals a further and absolutely integral sense of composition to his playing. Plus, this is a fairly random pick that's come to mind first mainly because it was brought up a few days ago in a different thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_ixgO00kbc
The likes of Hoglan and Reinert eat him for breakfast. He's as entertaining as a root canal.
At a push I probably prefer Hoglan and Reinert myself, but Sandoval wouldn't be far behind them. And objectively no one-trick pony. He may be the drummer who put blast beats at the heart of extreme metal drumming, but he wasn't in any way limited to them.
Aw c'mon: Pete's a legend.
His drumming is integral to the MA sound but I think there's a spikiness to his playing. I don't think he's always completely fluid, which might be what Ducky is getting at. But then, that slightly jarring style is an important part of the viciousness of MA's core sound. There are perhaps more technically accomplished players out there, more slick and so on, but it's that jagged edge he brings, along with much of the jarring, jagged playing by Azagthoth that is the extremity at the core of Morbid Angel. They move from those slower lava- like parts to cutting harsh chaotic segments. That's just classic MA to me.
All the early MA bits fit together perfectly, particularly with Brunelle. However it was they did what they did, it all fucking worked in the context of what the rest of them were doing.
Quote from: Ducky on July 18, 2024, 04:37:38 PMI'd enjoy Morbid Angel a whole lot more if Sandoval wasn't such a one trick pony.
He's very good at that trick (going fast as fuck), but it kinda makes all their songs bleed together.
🤯I can't believe what I'm reading🤯
Quote from: Bürggermeister on July 19, 2024, 10:19:19 AMAll the early MA bits fit together perfectly, particularly with Brunelle. However it was they did what they did, it all fucking worked in the context of what the rest of them were doing.
Sandoval practising double kicks and blasting while the rest of the lads were at work when he originally joined MA is a good one from Choosing Death.
Yeah like I'm not saying he's bad at what he does, just that he doesn't do a lot other than that and it brings a sameyness to the albums.
I'm sure hearing his playing on Altars in 1989 was mind-blowing, but that's part of it too - he arrived with his sthick fully formed back then, and didn't really evolve it much over the years. His playing on Altars could be easily transplanted to Heretic (not that I've listened to the latter much because it's, well, Heretic), whereas the rest of music evolved along the way.
And McLove touches a bit of what I'm saying - there's a lack of fluidity at times (outside of the straight blasting and slower bits) that makes me think he's trying to be more creative but lacks the chops to do so.
Well he was high as fuck for most of it too so that might influence things😂
I see people saying things and I understand the words but I've no idea what they're supposed to be referring to in the music itself. Can you give examples of this "lack" of fluidity in Sandoval's playing? Personally, even though I might prefer them abstractly, I can't imagine Hoglan or Reinert achieving better alchemy if Trey had been coming to them with his batshit compositions.
Quote from: Ducky on July 19, 2024, 01:38:57 AMThe likes of Hoglan and Reinert eat him for breakfast. He's as entertaining as a root canal.
No no no no no no no no.
He is far superior to Hoglan and completely different to Reinert. He's like a punk, almost jazz drummer that plays death metal.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 19, 2024, 02:39:29 PMI see people saying things and I understand the words but I've no idea what they're supposed to be referring to in the music itself. Can you give examples of this "lack" of fluidity in Sandoval's playing? Personally, even though I might prefer them abstractly, I can't imagine Hoglan or Reinert achieving better alchemy if Trey had been coming to them with his batshit compositions.
His playing sounds awkward on Evil Spells (outside of the blasting). Sounds similarly awkward on the second intro bit of Fall From Grace where he's following the riffs. There's a bit around 1:05 in Dominate as well.
I dunno about the two lads - like I could easily imagine Hoglan playing on Focus or Reinert on ITP, can't imagine Sandoval doing justice to either of those records. I'd say they'd both be far more interesting on an MA record.
It's worth bearing in mind the first two albums are triggered to fuck. Add the gated reverb and it'd be hard for anyone to display any nuance. Covenant is the first time you got to hear the real drums.
Does Sandoval sometimes play things, beats or fills, that make the listener feel uneasy? Yes (I'm guessing this is what Andy meant by "spikiness", though at other times it can be more a "slippiness"). The question is over whether that uneasiness is due to some creative or technical "lack" on Sandoval's part or whether it's compositional choice. Personally, it's never occurred to me that the intro to Fall From Grace jars the listener because Sandoval was off his game and not because that's what Trey wanted and Sandoval delivered. imo perfectly.
I'm not a drummer , I'd probably mess up the intro to Paradise City.
When I hear Morbid Angel with Pete Sandoval I hear greasy death metal savagery.
Vircolac have elements of this and it elevates them in my opinion. It sounds rubbery and slithery. Brilliant stuff.
Nice, I said slippiness but slithery fits better :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 19, 2024, 03:44:11 PMDoes Sandoval sometimes play things, beats or fills, that make the listener feel uneasy? Yes (I'm guessing this is what Andy meant by "spikiness", though at other times it can be more a "slippiness"). The question is over whether that uneasiness is due to some creative or technical "lack" on Sandoval's part or whether it's compositional choice. Personally, it's never occurred to me that the intro to Fall From Grace jars the listener because Sandoval was off his game and not because that's what Trey wanted and Sandoval delivered. imo perfectly.
Yeah fair observation about the creative element to it as well as I've similar opinions about Flo Mounier - I find some of his choices sloppy and not very fluid-sounding despite the fact he could probably play anything he wanted. Similar vibes with Nicko McBrain as well (though he's easier to ignore as the drums aren't blasting you like the other chaps).
I listenend to BATS a couple of times today and I was reminded of something from the olde times. When Altars came out, a lad in school loaned it to me and it didn't really grab me. He was full of enthusiasm for it, saying it was faster than Reign in Blood :laugh: . It was too fast for me, to be honest. I didn't dig blasts then and I still have a low tolerance now, even though I am much more fond of that album these days. When BATS came out, I wasn't too interested in hearing it but a mate put it on a tape for me. At the time, I had just done the leaving cert and was playing bass in a hard rock (think Bon Jovi of that time, complete with wide brimmed hats) band at the urging of the drummer, a schoolmate who went on to drum for The Script. I didn't want to be in that band but was too shy to leave :laugh: Anyway, on Saturdays we'd rehearse at the keyboardists' place (jaysus) and I'd walk there listening to Blessed Are The Sick on the walkman and I really, really fucking enjoyed it that summer. It's comfortably their best work. It's got fast stuff, slow stuff, weird stuff, pompous stuff and it flows like fuck. Brilliant, brilliant album, every second of it, and the perfect antidote to being band you didn't want to be in while enjoying walks in the sun :abbath:
Altars on now so that's a decent result. The spiky drumming fits the sharp, choppy riffs perfectly. I think it's that jaggedness that adds a lot of extremity to their sound compared to modern day meistro death metal. It sounds unhinged in a way that a lot of the technically precise stuff you hear can never capture. Totally possessed and evil.
I heard Altars in 1990, and loved it pretty much straight away, but I will admit it/they didn't hit me like say, the first two Death albums did when I first heard those. They just sounded so raw, and have that really unhinged, white knuckle intensity that I love.
People have claimed that era is tied up with Chuck's emotions about losing his brother Frank, which makes sense to me. Maybe I'm reading too much into it since I heard that, but it does feel like his approach was as much about pain, and genuine anger than just youthful aggression, or wanting to be the heaviest. His vocals on Scream Bloody Gore in particular sound like he is coming apart at the seams.
And honestly, much as I love all of the death & grind classics that came out in the early - mid 90's, it is still the albums from the 80's that I enjoy most. But that is true of most styles of metal really, so no big surprise there really.
Altars smokes every Death album.
Nowb that's a controversial opinion :laugh:
Nothing smokes Leprosy, it's THE death metal album. And Human is just behind.
I prefer the first three Death albums to anything MA have done to be honest.
Probably Human too actually. Which is an immense album in terms of musicianship, and composition/arrangement. But it just didn't hook me the same way as their earlier stuff.
That said, every Death album is a cracker in it's own way. Including 'The Sound Of Perseverance', which is underrated actually. Sonically I actually prefer it to the previous two.
I'd have Blessed in my top 5 DM albums for sure - as for Death, I wouldn't rate Spiritual Healing as highly as the other 3, despite loving it. Tbe other 3 just have more of an edge.
Love them all bar TSOP but I'd go with Altars everytime.
I'm not sure about the top 5 for me.
Scream and Leprosy would probably be the top two though I reckon. Whittling down so many greats from the 80's and early 90's to the last three though... And then there are the early grind classics.
Leprosy, Left Hand Path, Cause Of Death,
Blessed Are The Sick and either War Master or Symphonies Of Sickness, depending on my mood. Fuck it, I'm having a top 6.
Altars is MA's best album
BATS is a beaut of an album, but I'm all about debuts ;)
Up there with Deicide S/T & Slowly We Rot, & Like An Everflowing Stream/Left Hand Path/Dark Recollections
And Symphonies (not a debut!)
And my bit of controversy - Death are overrated :)
Spiritual Healing/Leprosy are the best albums, followed closely by Human
I'm a Death fanboy, and find both Leprosy and Spiritual Healing tough-ish listens due to Bill Andrews' drumming (there's a theme emerging here :laugh: )
Really wish Refiert had stayed on for those albums as he's ferocious on SBG, but then we may not have got the best death metal debut of all time in Severed Survival
Never got the hate for The Sound of Perseverance. It's fucking deadly.
Quote from: Ollkiller on July 20, 2024, 07:59:40 PMNever got the hate for The Sound of Perseverance. It's fucking deadly.
Fact.
I find ITP and TSOP unlistenable. Too wanky and all over the place, and his vocals on TSOP are atrocious. Symbolic is decent, a bit more straightforward but nowhere near the level of the first four.
Love Symbolic. TSOP is too far off the beaten track and was never a fan of Richard Christy's drumming.
Quote from: The Wretch on July 20, 2024, 08:28:47 PMQuote from: Ollkiller on July 20, 2024, 07:59:40 PMNever got the hate for The Sound of Perseverance. It's fucking deadly.
Fact.
Joining the TSoP love-in here. Was my favourite of their's for a long time, but it could've used an editor (like say how Flesh and the Power It Holds meanders for no reason).
Possibly a controversial take - A Moment of Clarity is their best song.
Individual Thought Patterns is the best of the wanky ones. It's also the first Death album I heard and it took a while to click.
I'd prefer the first 3 Obituary to the first 3 Death albums.
Quote from: open face surgery on July 20, 2024, 05:28:40 PMAltars smokes every Death album.
Nothing controversial about that, totally agree.
Decide s/t, blessed are the sick, autopsy mental funeral, pestilence testimony of ancients, here in after immolation, Top 5 early 90s of the top of my head.
Younger head, fell ass backwards into DM so had established so favourites by the time got to obituary & death.
Throwing the 2nd time ghoul ep in as my fav DM release. 2 of the best DM songs ever recorded. No doubt if there was a full album they'd be spoken about alongside the likes of aforementioned bands.
Fadó fadó, a mate gave me a tape with Slowly We Rot on one side and Deicide's s/t on the other. My verdict was favourable toward Obituary and (I remember this distinctly) calling Deicide "morons with guitars". I actually like the Deicide s/t more than SWR these days (SWR's prodution is atrocious) but I stand by the description.
I love every single Death album, something I obviously can't say about MA. As for deciding whether the best of one (in any given month) is better than the best of the other (in any given month), I'm not sure I could slice it (though again, depending on the month :laugh: ).
For years I'd ignored Deicide as the person I would borrow tapes from back in school said they were shit.
Of all the DM bands theirs and the Immolation debut are the ones I reach for the most often nowadays.
Nothing controversial about it really.
None of the current crop of " big " DM bands will ever be spoken about with the same level of reverence and fanaticism as old guard.
By no means am I saying they are shit or rehashing old ground blah blah blah.
Christ I've turned into such a cliche.
Oh the Deicide debut is impeccable, lightning in a bottle. Nothing else they've done has been in any way interesting to me.
Dawn is still Immolation's masterpiece to me, which is probably controversial to some here, though they're consistently great. But that album blew my mind when it came out.
@carnage, I got given a similar tapebwhen I was in first year of secondary school, but instead of Deicide the pairing was Slowly we Rot and Severed Survival.
Never really jived with Deicide outside of The Greatest Fluke in Metal™.
Debuts from Immolation, Incantation, Suffocation, Autopsy are all in a different league to Deicide's blatant Reign in Blood (minus the amazing drumming) worship.
Blatant Reign in Blood worship almost sounds like it's intended as an insult. Thankfully we all know better than that 8)
Amon: Feasting the Beast is death metal above and beyond criticism.
Fucking hell, are they giving out blowjobs for being wrong or what Ducky?
Horses for courses and all that, but for me Deicide's debut doesn't come close to either Altars or Scream. Or Reek. Or many others. I was never a big Deicide fan though. Sure fuck it, while we're being controversial, I'll even go so far as saying I think Eaten Back To Life is a better DM debut!
'Deicide' is pure fucking savagery. More meat and potatoes than MA certainly - although far more accomplished than people seem to imagine - and obviously the songs are nowhere near 'Reign...' but for pure aggression and kick in the bollocks riffing, those early Deicide albums take some beating. Sadly it all went tits up after 'Serpents' IMO. I know the likes of 'Stench...' have their fans, and I guess it is well crafted modern DM, but it doesn't feel like Deicide to me.
Also, anyone who was lucky to catch them back in the day with the Hoffman brothers might recall they had a genuine air of menace and violent tension that was utterly intoxicating. Benton might be cuddly Uncle Glen now, but back then, they weren't fucking around live, they went direct for the jugular, and took no prisoners.
For sheer, unrelenting power, boundless energy and hostility, they were a genuine force. I can barely think of anyone else that comes close, that I have seen anyway, aside from obviously Slayer at their best, nobody beats that.
I like a lot of the earlier CC stuff, but compared to Deicide in their prime? No. Not even in the same league as far as I'm concerned. Although certainly more consistent in the long run.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 21, 2024, 12:22:49 PMBlatant Reign in Blood worship almost sounds like it's intended as an insult. Thankfully we all know better than that 8)
Amon: Feasting the Beast is death metal above and beyond criticism.
It is an insult when someone's reaction to hearing a band's peak is "I'd prefer to listen to the chaps who did it years earlier, and much better".
Quote from: Pentagrimes on July 21, 2024, 10:43:44 AMI got given a similar tapebwhen I was in first year of secondary school, but instead of Deicide the pairing was Slowly we Rot and Severed Survival.
Here's one for the thread: pre-split Autopsy were shite, their best work comes after the reunion.
Quote from: The Wretch on July 21, 2024, 12:38:34 PMFucking hell, are they giving out blowjobs for being wrong or what Ducky?
I wish :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Part of my thing is I discovered all of these bands out of sync and largely of my own accord - my first death metal record was Scream Bloody Gore in 1998, the same year I "discovered" metal properly. And I had little regard or knowledge of any of the bands' reputations or standings, they fell under "music I might like, so I'll give them a shot".
RiB was already well established in my head as the album to top, so when I heard the Deicide debut for the first time circa 2001 all I could hear was a watered down take on RiB.
Quote from: Carnage on July 21, 2024, 01:33:50 PMHere's one for the thread: pre-split Autopsy were shite, their best work comes after the reunion.
Ah, that brings back memories of the Tez forum mate... :laugh:
You were wrong then, and you are wrong now. :laugh:
Actually no, that's not entirely accurate. I would say their post reunion stuff is certainly ahead of Acts Of The Unspeakable (even if that is somewhat underrated if anything) and definitely Shitfun. But the first two are bona fide classics of DM.
Are you a fan of the Abscess stuff at all?
Yeah I think the sound of your Nan taking a tumble down the stairs is more palatable than Shitfun in fairness.
The Tomb Within and Macabre Eternal are great records, but man, Severed Survival is a perfect death metal album. Probably my favourite "straight up" DM release.
I've never listened to Abscess, I always assumed they were Autopsy under a different name. I suppose I should check them out.
I bought Cause Of Death, War Master and Mental Funeral on the same day (in Freebird, I'd say a lot of us can thank them for providing our early tape collections), listened to them on the train home. COD and WM were instant favourites and still are, but MF did nothing for me so I wrote them off and traded the tape to a mate.
I tried them again over the years, tastes changing and all that but my reaction was always the same. When they reformed curiosity got the better of me and I found myself loving the new material, and I reckon everything they've done since is good to great. The old stuff still does little for me, I tried Severed Survival again when they started putting out new stuff and hated it. That being said, I listened to Mental Funeral about a year ago and found myself coming around to it a bit so I might give SS and Acts another go. I refuse to entertain Shitfun on general principle.
[/quote]
Here's one for the thread: pre-split Autopsy were shite, their best work comes after the reunion.
[/quote]
Quote from: Carnage on July 21, 2024, 01:33:50 PMQuote from: Pentagrimes on July 21, 2024, 10:43:44 AMI got given a similar tapebwhen I was in first year of secondary school, but instead of Deicide the pairing was Slowly we Rot and Severed Survival.
Here's one for the thread: pre-split Autopsy were shite, their best work comes after the reunion.
:o holy shit
It is controversial alright. Fuck me. Mental funeral is insane and pisses over any reunion album.
Quote from: Carnage on July 21, 2024, 02:15:17 PMI've never listened to Abscess, I always assumed they were Autopsy under a different name. I suppose I should check them out.
I bought Cause Of Death, War Master and Mental Funeral on the same day (in Freebird, I'd say a lot of us can thank them for providing our early tape collections), listened to them on the train home. COD and WM were instant favourites and still are, but MF did nothing for me so I wrote them off and traded the tape to a mate.
I tried them again over the years, tastes changing and all that but my reaction was always the same. When they reformed curiosity got the better of me and I found myself loving the new material, and I reckon everything they've done since is good to great. The old stuff still does little for me, I tried Severed Survival again when they started putting out new stuff and hated it. That being said, I listened to Mental Funeral about a year ago and found myself coming around to it a bit so I might give SS and Acts another go. I refuse to entertain Shitfun on general principle.
I'll toot about 'til the day I die - the "amputation for your rations!" line in Severed Survival's title track is one of the greatest moments in death metal.
This thread is giving me a pain in my head.
The Deicde debut and the Immolation debut shit all over the Cannibal Corpse debut.
Legion and Once Upon The Cross are both savage albums.
The best Cannibal Corpse album is Kill.
Kill is a great album, Bloodthirst would be the one for me though. The best Corpsegrinder albums are much better than anything from the Barnes era
Vocally yes*, but the riffs on the first three are where it's at.
*Barnes' vocals on EBTL are actually decent, but Fisher is still the superior singer.
I wouldn't have as finely tuned an ear as ye lads but how in the crotch of Christ is Deicides s/t comparable in any way to Reign In Blood?
I've listened to both countless thousands of times, hundreds of times one after the other, love them both, and the Thought never even crossed my mind.
Both 10/10 albums for me ,the intensity levels on both are the major similarity/comparison .Neither released an album with those intensity levels again though Legion wasn't far off.
Quote from: Thorn on July 21, 2024, 09:36:48 PMBoth 10/10 albums for me ,the intensity levels on both are the major similarity/comparison .Neither released an album with those intensity levels again though Legion wasn't far off.
Ah if your talking in terms of intensity I'd agree with that 100%, surely that couldn't be described as Deicides album being "pure RIB worship" though.
Not that it matters like, they're both fucking masterpieces.
Quote from: Carnage on July 21, 2024, 01:33:50 PMQuote from: Pentagrimes on July 21, 2024, 10:43:44 AMI got given a similar tapebwhen I was in first year of secondary school, but instead of Deicide the pairing was Slowly we Rot and Severed Survival.
Here's one for the thread: pre-split Autopsy were shite, their best work comes after the reunion.
I can only guess you've either never heard the pre reunion albums or have recently sustained some form of brain injury.
All adressed above.
Another one: Legion is shit. Deicide's best albums are:
Serpents Of The Light
Once Upon The Cross
Deicide
In that order. Nothing else worth bothering with.
Quote from: Carnage on July 22, 2024, 01:58:30 AMAll adressed above.
Another one: Legion is shit. Deicide's best albums are:
Serpents Of The Light
Once Upon The Cross
Deicide
In that order. Nothing else worth bothering with.
Legion is 100% arse-rot. The fucking production is awful.
Indeed. A thin sounding retread of the debut, sacrificing writing for speed's sake.
Ah here. Some savage songs on Legion.
Always thought it was disposable, from day one. Just no substance. By the time it came out I'd come around to the debut and this just sounded bland and forced in comparison.
Wouldn't be much of a Legion fan myself although it has its moments, I've a fierce soft spot for Scars Of The Crucifix though, wasn't mad about it when it came out but it's grown on me big time.
Quote from: Ducky on July 22, 2024, 02:07:18 AMQuote from: Carnage on July 22, 2024, 01:58:30 AMAll adressed above.
Another one: Legion is shit. Deicide's best albums are:
Serpents Of The Light
Once Upon The Cross
Deicide
In that order. Nothing else worth bothering with.
The fucking production is awful.
Even Scott Burns would say that. He made the Hoffmans use proper amps on OUTC because of it.
I was disappointed with 'Legion' initially, and yeah, the sound lets it down, but with repeat listening, it really grew on me. All of the first four are fucking brilliant as far as I'm concerned.
Legion is brilliant. Stop all this madness. The production is part of the appeal.
It's like a swarm of bees. All the mid cut with more savagery from the brothers, Glenn and Steve.
Perfect follow up.
The IVth crusade is the best Bolt Thrower album.
Big fan of the first four Deicide albums as well. Legion is a feral beast of an album. There's less of a thrash metal feel to it than the debut. It's somewhat similar to Suffocation's relentless rhythmic approach. The production never bothered me, but I enjoy Breeding the Spawn so what do I know?
No love for Stench? It's top 3 Deicide for me, maybe even second after the debut.
Quote from: Circlepit on July 22, 2024, 08:58:28 AMThe IVth crusade is the best Bolt Thrower album.
You misspelled Realm of Chaos but to be honest, everything Bolt Thrower recorded was ace.
First four (and Amon) are perfect.
I've always found Scars Of The Crucifix/Stench Of Redemption really overrated.
One or two good songs but they lost the hooks
Quote from: Anvil on July 22, 2024, 10:24:51 AMQuote from: Circlepit on July 22, 2024, 08:58:28 AMThe IVth crusade is the best Bolt Thrower album.
You misspelled Realm of Chaos but to be honest, everything Bolt Thrower recorded was ace.
Realm Of Chaos is the first one I heard in school and for a long time it was my favourite but the opening riff alone on The IVth crusade alone... it's like Crowbar mixed with death metal.
If your best of Bolt Thrower pick is among Realm of Chaos, War Master, IVth Crusade, or ...For Victory, then it's not a controversial opinion imo. Same with Morbid Angel's first three. Judge the greatness of a band by the proportion of their albums that can be justifiably defended as their best. And by that criterion, Death comes out on top 8) :abbath: That said, the sheer speed of Death's staff turnover means it's not exactly "fair" to compare them to most other bands.
I was 15 back in 1992 when I first heard Deicide and Legion, and remember thinking should I really be listening to this? It was a total step up from Slayer singing about Satanism etc and these guys actually meaning it, total unease. But loved both albums, the demonic screams and growls and the frantic, menacing riffs. I remember reading a review of Legion in Kerrang or MH at the time, and they basically admitted that for Legion they were basically competing with each other to see who could play the fastest, kinda shows alright, ha. Both are my fav Deicide albums, don't think any band ever fully achieved that same evil, malevolent sound since...
I certainly felt that sense of danger with Deicide as well. They were my stepping stone from Slayer into death metal and there was a sense of putting yourself in peril by listening to them. It's impossible to recapture that sense of corrupted innocence decades on, but the memories remain.
Legion is one of the best metal albums ever released and it shits all over albums like Spiritual Healing and Human. Even down to the story of how they came about the artwork concept for Legion. The only bad thing that can be said about it, is that the album is too short.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on July 22, 2024, 10:07:43 AMNo love for Stench? It's top 3 Deicide for me, maybe even second after the debut.
Like I said in a previous post, it is well crafted death metal, but vocals aside doesn't feel like Deicide to me at all. Post 'Serpents...' the best thing any of them have been involved in are the Vital Remains albums Glen did, both of which tear later Deicide a new arsehole.
Quote from: mickO))) on July 22, 2024, 01:13:43 PMLegion is one of the best metal albums ever released and it shits all over albums like Spiritual Healing and Human. Even down to the story of how they came about the artwork concept for Legion. The only bad thing that can be said about it, is that the album is too short.
What's the story with the artwork? Never really thought too much about it other than being some sort of symbol/logo yoke
This was posted by Necromorbus on another forum some time ago
Quote"Out of my mind into a world between"
I had never thought of Deicide as the potential pioneers of the concept of qliphoth in death metal until I spoke to a friend of mine who is very close to the band.
In his words, the "trifixion" symbol on the cover represents Legion, the demon of the Gadarenes, while the "glass orb" is a symbolic representation of the invisible boundaries God has created for us. The trifixion symbol is projected outwards and radiates so strongly that the sphere is about to crack, thus creating a connection between the satanic essence of the album and the physical world, specifically the listener.
The sample that opens the forth track Trifixion represents the glass orb cracking due to the overwhelming build-up of demonic power, while the inner sleeve depicts the final escape and revelation of the demon, Legion, now free to shroud the world in red, a color associated with violence and aggression.
It's a very interesting concept that, intentionally or not, is completely in line with the ideas of qliphothic magic.
An interview also exists which I never saved where the band confirms the above.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on July 22, 2024, 07:14:26 AMQuote from: Ducky on July 22, 2024, 02:07:18 AMQuote from: Carnage on July 22, 2024, 01:58:30 AMAll adressed above.
Another one: Legion is shit. Deicide's best albums are:
Serpents Of The Light
Once Upon The Cross
Deicide
In that order. Nothing else worth bothering with.
The fucking production is awful.
Even Scott Burns would say that. He made the Hoffmans use proper amps on OUTC because of it.
The guitar sound on OUtC is so much more enjoyable than Legion's. And the drums don't fatigue the shit out of your ears after half an hour on headphones either.
Quote from: mickO))) on July 22, 2024, 01:13:43 PMLegion is one of the best metal albums ever released and it shits all over albums like Spiritual Healing and Human. Even down to the story of how they came about the artwork concept for Legion. The only bad thing that can be said about it, is that the album is too short.
Bleating goat, or Deicide's cringe "god bad" sthick vs. some of James Murphy's best playing, or some of the most influential and iconic drumming on a death metal record...
You forgot to mention Chuck's lyrics on Spiritual Healing where he successfully channelled his 12-year old self to produce nuggets of pure gold like "Where crime is the only way to survive, Which is the best to be, dead or alive?".
At least Schuldiner evolved as a lyricist over the course of his career.
Benton's bolloxolgy has been the same for almost four decades, and he may as well be singing about Santa Clause.
Quote from: Ducky on July 22, 2024, 04:55:46 PMAt least Schuldiner evolved as a lyricist over the course of his career.
Benton's bolloxolgy has been the same for almost four decades, and he may as well be singing about Santa Clause.
The first Deicide album is right up there but Death definitely have the better discography. I rate Serpents of the Light very highly as well though but everything you say about the lyrics is true
I think Once Upon the Cross, Serpents, and Stench are their three best (and fuck it, Scars of the Crucifix is decent as well), but man oh man, hearing Benton bleat on about Jesus for almost four decades is toe-curlingly embarrassing.
His band are the cliché that a lot of people who know squat about death metal misrepresent it to be.
Quote from: Ducky on July 22, 2024, 07:52:16 PMI think Once Upon the Cross, Serpents, and Stench are their three best (and fuck it, Scars of the Crucifix is decent as well), but man oh man, hearing Benton bleat on about Jesus for almost four decades is toe-curlingly embarrassing.
His band are the cliché that a lot of people who know squat about death metal misrepresent it to be.
Shots fired. This is like a death metal 9/11.
I used to think the same about the kicking of the proverbial dead ass in Deicide's lyrics but, if anything, seeing more and more just how present dogmatic evangelical christianity still is in the US has made me more sympathetic to it :laugh: :abbath:
Ah I dunno I suppose the satanic stuff has more in common with Stryper than they realise as well in terms of dedication. Akercocke would be a good example of evolving out of it lyrically over the years where I guess Deicide really never did. Covenant being my favourite MA album is probably more controversial than anything I'd say about Deicide even though I think Stench isn't good the way everyone else does
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 22, 2024, 10:30:52 PMI used to think the same about the kicking of the proverbial dead ass in Deicide's lyrics but, if anything, seeing more and more just how present dogmatic evangelical christianity still is in the US has made me more sympathetic to it :laugh: :abbath:
Glen & Steve are running out of ideas. They did have a bit of creativity back in the day but some of the lyrics of the last few years have been corny as fuck.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 22, 2024, 10:40:07 PMAh I dunno I suppose the satanic stuff has more in common with Stryper than they realise as well in terms of dedication.
Right on the money. How's what he got branded on his forehead any different than a devout religious warp-o?
I thought it was obvious Glenn is playing a character and the Stryper guy actually believes the shite coming out of his mouth?
With a name like Deicide they did actually have more leeway for opening up thematically. On the flipside, Rotting Christ is a much more limiting name, to an extent that they prob should have relaunched under a new moniker a long time ago given where they moved onto in their lyrics. Ditto Septic Flesh tbh. Those fuckin' Greeks huh!
A band name is a flexible thing.
Benton went into autopilot regurgitating the same waffle in later albums, but the earlier Deicide lyrics were creative regardless what you think of the subject matter.
Glen Benton and Karl Sanders must be sick to fuck of writing about Satan and Egypt! I mocked some of Schuldiner's lyrics on Spiritual Healing, but he wasn't afraid to tackle new topics unlike Benton who has found himself trapped in a corner.
I see what you did there.
I think it's time to defend Benton here a bit. He sounded rabid and obsessed in the early days. To dismiss Deicide as merely being Slayer rip offs is inaccurate, although that influence is there. They had their own style of playing with the Slayer influence present and correct as a building block, but they also had their own way of crafting songs that emitted their own violent, monomaniacal dark power. It might be easy to dismiss the lyrics in 2024 but in the early-mid 90s and before that, those words were extreme. And they were backed up by serious music by, for all we knew, lunatics (of God's creation). When Benton burnt an upside down cross into his forehead back then it was truly a frightening statement. Times were simpler back then, we were all younger and more impressionable. The endless boring cynicism of older age mixed with internet irony hadn't killed the magic and mystery, so we saw a lunatic who fronted one of metal's most extreme and frightening bands acting out his vengeance on religion through self-harm. It was absolutely impressive. So to all the dismissals above I say no. Deicide were an essential band in their day and their classics hold up. That's my completely uncontroversial response 8)
Legion is a masterpiece. A frothing, rabid beast of an album.
100% agree with all of that, well said Andy. It really was all about a time and place in history when Deicide broke, it was truly a big thing for a impressionable and hungry Metal teen back then to see and hear how serious the band were. Nothing is sacred now. Everything is reduced to a meme or a joke thanks to how online savvy we all are. There's no doubt the continual Christian bashing by Glen on every single album is way past tiresome and ,yes Ducky, embarrassing but in that time and that place Deicide were Gods
I think the Deicide s/t is one of the greatest albums ever in the genre and bar an argument for Legion which I would absolutely accept, nothing in their discography is remotely close to that, not by a country mile. I still love those records, there's tracks on Serpents or OUTC that are still superb, but nothing is as rabid as Dead By Dawn, say. They started at their absolute peak.
You could legit scare folks with Deicide. Recall one of our gang in school being freaked out by the samples on OUTC.
Ya, I got Serpents in 1st year and it was truly evil to me. Savage stuff. Still have a soft spot for it but would agree with Squigz that the first 2 are just leagues ahead of everything else.
I hear almost as much Possessed and German thrash - At least in terms of the Hoffman brothers playing style - as Slayer in early Deicide. Although granted the delivery was more of a Slayer type intensity than say an early Kreator one.
McLove is spot on about them being an essential band, and the classic albums more than hold up against anything else happening at the time.
Also, I like that, early on at least, like Morbid, they had a proper fucking metal image that tied in with the music/lyrics/artwork.
Also, the cover of the first album made one of the coolest metal shirts of all fucking time. Still looks so badass.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on July 23, 2024, 02:11:20 PMYou could legit scare folks with Deicide. Recall one of our gang in school being freaked out by the samples on OUTC.
I remember when I was 17 or 18, I was wearing a Once Upon The Cross shirt when I met my girlfriend of the time outside her after school job, and her work mates were all appalled by it, to the point they were complaining for at least a year after, and asking her if she was OK. They genuinely though I was some sort of maniac. Ahh, small town 80's and 90's Ireland.
Thankfully it probably helped in keeping me/us from being invited to hang out with them.
Early Deicide is utterly essential.
I can still remember hearing the ST album for the first time,I was around 14,hair on the back of the neck stuff!
Amon: Feasting the Beast was the first death metal album I ever heard. A friend's older brother taped a copy for me. I remember listening to it with the volume down very low as as I didn't want my parents to hear the unhinged devil music.
Quote from: Thorn on July 23, 2024, 01:40:10 PM100% agree with all of that, well said Andy. It really was all about a time and place in history when Deicide broke, it was truly a big thing for a impressionable and hungry Metal teen back then to see and hear how serious the band were. Nothing is sacred now. Everything is reduced to a meme or a joke thanks to how online savvy we all are. There's no doubt the continual Christian bashing by Glen on every single album is way past tiresome and ,yes Ducky, embarrassing but in that time and that place Deicide were Gods
Yeah I definitely don't have the benefit of being there at the time. Again, first time I heard Deicide was in 2000 or 2001, I just had the music and lyrics sheet to go off, and it was already filtered through a bunch of other albums I had heard at that stage and it just didn't sound as menacing (hearing peak Napalm Death and Gorguts in particular kinda neutered Deicide for me). Plus, I think ND singing about bad shit that actually happens to people is far more threatening than the make-believe of Deicide's lyrics. Ditto hearing Slayer rattle through Angel of Death - the literal Holocaust vs. "Jesus bad, Satan good".
All that said, I don't dislike Deicide :laugh: Just the production on Legion is not very enjoyable to me lugs and the lyrics are old hat at this stage.
Sure they are all fannies compared to Venom anyway lads. :D
The lyrics on the early stuff aren't old hat, they are timeless satanic death metal. Are you comparing it to DSO or what? That highly cerebral, metaphysical, philosophical approach is grand, it has its place too, but I'm far more convinced by simple evil lyrics these days. They are the ones that hold up over time.
In the 80s and 90s merely being explicitly satanic was considered taboo. It was taken seriously as being threatening to the moral fabric of society. Nothing is taboo anymore- the genie is out of the bottle and everyone knows fucking everything and is burnt out at 25. I think you're confusing the mindset of the millennium with that which came before. It was in many ways a more innocent time, so simply attacking this monolith called Christianity, which still had a firm grip on the day to day lives of people, was rebellious. It might seem cartoonish from the perspective of where black metal lyrics have evolved to, but in many ways it remains a much more potent force. Reading reams of lyrics that baffle you unless you go and study theology can set a certain interesting atmosphere no doubt, but it can't quite compete with a punch in the face like Sacrificial Suicide or lyrics like "Open the door Jehova you whore", which remain brutal and timeless.
Quote from: The Wretch on July 23, 2024, 11:31:43 PMSure they are all fannies compared to Venom anyway lads. :D
Cronos 'n' Mantas versus the Hoffman Brothers in a steel cage!
Quote from: Sworntothecans on July 24, 2024, 12:03:27 AMQuote from: The Wretch on July 23, 2024, 11:31:43 PMSure they are all fannies compared to Venom anyway lads. :D
Cronos 'n' Mantas versus the Hoffman Brothers in a steel cage!
:laugh: My money is on the Geordies. "Reet bad lads"
Quote from: The Wretch on July 23, 2024, 03:01:28 PMQuote from: Sworntothecans on July 23, 2024, 02:11:20 PMYou could legit scare folks with Deicide. Recall one of our gang in school being freaked out by the samples on OUTC.
I remember when I was 17 or 18, I was wearing a Once Upon The Cross shirt when I met my girlfriend of the time outside her after school job, and her work mates were all appalled by it, to the point they were complaining for at least a year after, and asking her if she was OK. They genuinely though I was some sort of maniac. Ahh, small town 80's and 90's Ireland.
Thankfully it probably helped in keeping me/us from being invited to hang out with them.
Had that shirt as well, the only time I ever got shit over it was at a Waylander gig in Monaghan. From some guy in a Slayer shirt. :laugh:
Quote from: The Wretch on July 24, 2024, 12:07:56 AMQuote from: Sworntothecans on July 24, 2024, 12:03:27 AMQuote from: The Wretch on July 23, 2024, 11:31:43 PMSure they are all fannies compared to Venom anyway lads. :D
Cronos 'n' Mantas versus the Hoffman Brothers in a steel cage!
:laugh: My money is on the Geordies. "Reet bad lads"
Steve Asheim pulls a gun, Cronos knocks him out with a Newkie Brown bottle!
For me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.
Quote from: mickO))) on July 24, 2024, 11:30:45 AMFor me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.
Symbolic was supposed to be Death's last album, Chuck only gave Nuclear Blast The Sound of Perseverance under the Death name in order to get Control Denied out the door with them (indeed, a few TSoP songs were originally CD songs).
Death were long done before he died, and he already released a new album from his new creative endeavour (and had some of the bones of their second one). So it's impossible to know if Death would have sat dormant in perpetuity, or if he'd have pulled a Billy Corgan with Zwan/Smashing Pumpkins.
I personally don't like Control Denied. The music is cool, but he clearly didn't know how to write for clean vocals.
The Sound Of Perseverance is great, I really don't get people's issue with it at all. Is it as powerful as Leprosy, or as well crafted and forward looking for it's time as Human? No. Is it packed with excellent metal songs, and brilliant musicianship? Absolutely. I still get goosebumps when I hear Evil Chuck sing "Spirr-ett, Crushaaggggggh!"
And 'Flesh And The Power It Holds', 'Scavenger Of Human Sorrow', 'Voice Of The Soul.? Come on! It's only the pointless Painkiller cover that lets it down.
Regardless of how Chuck felt about it himself, I think it's a cracker.
That pointless Painkiller cover got me into Priest so all good.
Well, I suppose it did serve a purpose so. More Priest fans is always a win.
The Sound Of Perseverance is indeed great. I find myself listening to it more than the other albums in the years since he died.
Quote from: The Wretch on July 24, 2024, 02:30:18 PMThe Sound Of Perseverance is great, I really don't get people's issue with it at all. Is it as powerful as Leprosy, or as well crafted and forward looking for it's time as Human? No. Is it packed with excellent metal songs, and brilliant musicianship? Absolutely. I still get goosebumps when I hear Evil Chuck sing "Spirr-ett, Crushaaggggggh!"
And 'Flesh And The Power It Holds', 'Scavenger Of Human Sorrow', 'Voice Of The Soul.? Come on! It's only the pointless Painkiller cover that lets it down.
Regardless of how Chuck felt about it himself, I think it's a cracker.
Yeah I love it too (especially Spirit Crusher, and A Moment of Clarity is my favourite Death song).
Also agree with Open Face Surgery - that cover of Painkiller is what got me into Priest! :abbath:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 23, 2024, 11:34:29 PMThe lyrics on the early stuff aren't old hat, they are timeless satanic death metal. Are you comparing it to DSO or what? That highly cerebral, metaphysical, philosophical approach is grand, it has its place too, but I'm far more convinced by simple evil lyrics these days. They are the ones that hold up over time.
In the 80s and 90s merely being explicitly satanic was considered taboo. It was taken seriously as being threatening to the moral fabric of society. Nothing is taboo anymore- the genie is out of the bottle and everyone knows fucking everything and is burnt out at 25. I think you're confusing the mindset of the millennium with that which came before. It was in many ways a more innocent time, so simply attacking this monolith called Christianity, which still had a firm grip on the day to day lives of people, was rebellious. It might seem cartoonish from the perspective of where black metal lyrics have evolved to, but in many ways it remains a much more potent force. Reading reams of lyrics that baffle you unless you go and study theology can set a certain interesting atmosphere no doubt, but it can't quite compete with a punch in the face like Sacrificial Suicide or lyrics like "Open the door Jehova you whore", which remain brutal and timeless.
Defo not comparing to DSO, though there's obviously as much (if not more) of a market for Deicide's Big Mac vs. DSO's steak.
When I discovered Deicide is a big factor (very much at the start of the new millennium), plus I was allowed to embrace my atheist (non)beliefs by age 12, so reading and hearing Deicide lyrics at age 18 was a bit pantomime. Again, the lyrics of something like Angel of Death felt far more shocking as it was something that actually happened to real people (and having Araya deliver them as clean vocal hooks makes them more impactful, IMO).
In a way I was shielded from a lot of religion as a kid - my folks were both born in 1943, experienced some of the nastiness first-hand (me Ma used to get the shite slapped out of her by the nuns for being left-handed), so they realised that pushing Catholicism onto their kids wasn't something worth doing.
So the result is it has coloured my perception in that I do forget how much of a yoke it had on society as recently as the 80s and 90s. One only needs to look at people losing their minds when Sinead O'Connor ripped up the picture of the pope. Condoms were illegal here until what, 1985?
So yeah, I guess a band landing on your stereo in 1990 spitting those lyrics from a dude branded with an inverted crucifix probably was genuinely shocking, and a true counter-culture moment.
Quote from: Ducky on July 24, 2024, 02:14:45 PMQuote from: mickO))) on July 24, 2024, 11:30:45 AMFor me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.
Symbolic was supposed to be Death's last album, Chuck only gave Nuclear Blast The Sound of Perseverance under the Death name in order to get Control Denied out the door with them (indeed, a few TSoP songs were originally CD songs).
Death were long done before he died, and he already released a new album from his new creative endeavour (and had some of the bones of their second one). So it's impossible to know if Death would have sat dormant in perpetuity, or if he'd have pulled a Billy Corgan with Zwan/Smashing Pumpkins.
I personally don't like Control Denied. The music is cool, but he clearly didn't know how to write for clean vocals.
I wouldn't be mad on later Death mainly the last 4 they are good for what they are but not my type of thing. I did really enjoy those Death To All gigs about 10 years ago the first show covered the first four albums then they came for a second show that was only the last four albums both shows were really good. The Left To Die show was also great. Death To All have been touring the US again be great to see them come back here and it would give me an excuse to give to later Death albums a listen again.
The Gruesome material is decent enough. I really like they way they have the earlier Death style artwork and lyrical themes for the songs.
I enjoyed the novelty of Gruesome when they came put but, as they went on, I just wondered why I wasn't just listening to the real thing instead of pretendy-Death.
Did Gruesome play in Ireland before?
I reviewed the Spiritual Healing one for MI and was quite savage about it, principally because every time their riff was a little too close to a real Death riff, it pulled me out of their song and had me thinking about the Death song instead. It was a jarring listen, hard to just sit back and enjoy.
That being said, the two lads were spot-on at the Left to Die gig.
Quote from: mickO))) on July 25, 2024, 12:09:10 PMDid Gruesome play in Ireland before?
They were meant to play with Krisiun a few years back but got cancelled with the pandemic. Don't think they've been back since
Quote from: Trev on July 25, 2024, 12:13:01 PMQuote from: mickO))) on July 25, 2024, 12:09:10 PMDid Gruesome play in Ireland before?
They were meant to play with Krisiun a few years back but got cancelled with the pandemic. Don't think they've been back since
Was that the gig with Deicide playing Legion in full headlining? I don't remember Gruesome being on that.
They definitely haven't played here since the only time Matt Harvey was in Ireland since the pandemic was the Left to Die gig.
It was definitely Krisiun, got a ticket to see them and remember checking out Gruesome since they were supporting
Edit: Just looked it up Krisiun/Gruesome/Vitriol, 18th April '20. Would have been a savage gig
That makes sense I wasn't here then so I never even knew about that show. The show I was talking about was suppose to happen early 2022.
Quote from: mickO))) on July 25, 2024, 11:46:24 AMQuote from: Ducky on July 24, 2024, 02:14:45 PMQuote from: mickO))) on July 24, 2024, 11:30:45 AMFor me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.
Symbolic was supposed to be Death's last album, Chuck only gave Nuclear Blast The Sound of Perseverance under the Death name in order to get Control Denied out the door with them (indeed, a few TSoP songs were originally CD songs).
Death were long done before he died, and he already released a new album from his new creative endeavour (and had some of the bones of their second one). So it's impossible to know if Death would have sat dormant in perpetuity, or if he'd have pulled a Billy Corgan with Zwan/Smashing Pumpkins.
I personally don't like Control Denied. The music is cool, but he clearly didn't know how to write for clean vocals.
I wouldn't be mad on later Death mainly the last 4 they are good for what they are but not my type of thing. I did really enjoy those Death To All gigs about 10 years ago the first show covered the first four albums then they came for a second show that was only the last four albums both shows were really good. The Left To Die show was also great. Death To All have been touring the US again be great to see them come back here and it would give me an excuse to give to later Death albums a listen again.
The Gruesome material is decent enough. I really like they way they have the earlier Death style artwork and lyrical themes for the songs.
Hup yeah, that's it entirely - doesn't matter how good the steak is if steak isn't your thing to begin with.
I do honestly love The Sound of Perseverance, but I'm entirely on board with most of the complaints about it too. They don't bother me personally as such, but they're definitely present.
I enjoyed Gruesome too, but eventually came around to the same line of thinking as Burrgermeister. If I'm gonna tap my foot to that sort of stuff, may as well go back to the source (Closed Casket does live on a "random metal tracks I enjoy but not enough to trot out the parent album" for the James Murphy solo).
I see they have a Symbolic/TSoP-esque song released at the end of May called Frailty. I am impressed how Matt Harvey can write music in someone else's style (fuck, the first time I heard Exhumed I genuinely thought it was Carcass), even if it's highly derivative.
Musing - I wonder if there's some young'uns out there that have never heard Death but are fans of Gruesome?
Yeah that's definitely happened with young metalheads, I've seen the occasional Reddit thread pop up where they're legit suprised. Most kids will sort by new on streaming.
Think Averill said on his podcast that were were some oul bucks at Death To All /Left To Die saying "Jaysus Chuck sounds great 😂"
A few days away from the forum and I come back to people disrespecting the Deicide debut as if it isn't the greatest death metal record of all time, maybe I should have stayed away all together ???
Nocturnus, could never get into these lads as much as I want to. Tried 'The Key' again today and once more found it too hyper and frantic, too much going on all the time, especially these solo flourishes that go over the riffs. Will try again some other time.
Aww, sad face, it's one of the great DM debuts. Then again, the hyperactivity is part of the appeal, so if that doesn't float your boat it's fair enough to not dig it.
It took me a long time to come around to them initially, but that one's a cracker when you're in the form for something a bit different.
Yep, it's not a straight up DM record. Was probably one of the earlier weird ones, so your ears have to be attuned to it.
I'll never forget one of the lads and the face he pulled when he realised that keyboards are a thing on it :laugh:
Savage album.
Not sure if this has been mentioned already but I find early Immortal utterly unlistenable. Their output from the past quarter of a century from At the Heart of Winter onwards shows the band at their peak, with ATHOF and WAA being their magna opera.
Only true of Blizzard Beasts. Diabolical, Holocaust & Battles are distinct, stone cold classics. At the Heart of Winter is the only classic from the second era. Sons... is hit and miss.
War against all, All shall fall and Northern Chaos Gods are so stock in their presentation i just couldn't give a fuck.
Quote from: vinterland on October 20, 2024, 04:47:49 PMNot sure if this has been mentioned already but I find early Immortal utterly unlistenable. Their output from the past quarter of a century from At the Heart of Winter onwards shows the band at their peak, with ATHOF and WAA being their magna opera.
Couldnt agree more!
Quote from: vinterland on October 20, 2024, 04:47:49 PMNot sure if this has been mentioned already but I find early Immortal utterly unlistenable. Their output from the past quarter of a century from At the Heart of Winter onwards shows the band at their peak, with ATHOF and WAA being their magna opera.
No.
Spent the morning listening to everything up to At The Heart of Winter. Blizzard Beats I always found it to be hard listen, but other wise, think they they are all quality albums.
Never really got into Damned in Black but love Sons of Northern Darkness. After that they are ok.
Blizzard Beasts and Battles In The North are savage albums.
I went back several times over the years to listen to everything from DFM to BITN and with some exceptions found it hard to distinguish between one song and the next. I always thought something might eventually click with me but as of yet it hasn't happened. This all changed with ATHOW which is undoubtedly their finest hour thanks largely to Peter Tägtgren.
Pure Holocaust is the best they've done.
At The Heart of Winter is their best imo.Im not an old school BM fan for the most part bar some stuff,so I nearly always prefer mid period albums by lots of those first wave bands.Same with Emperor and Enslaved.
Damned in Black Is my favourite Immortal album
The first 5 albums range from very good to outright classic. They went downhill after At the Heart of Winter.
Diabolical is the best.
"Immortally Insane" (from the FAKK 2 soundtrack) is Pantera's best song.
Iron Maiden singles are very often amongst the worst tracks off each album.
Quote from: Polaris on January 12, 2025, 01:01:34 PMIron Maiden singles are very often amongst the worst tracks off each album.
Always think that about Can I Play With Madness
Many other bands have released shite songs as singles. Sweating Bullets, Fuel and Madhouse spring to mind.
Madhouse? Wudja shtap. Great song.
Can't stand it. So many better songs from that era they could have used to promote the album.
And just to clarify, I'm a huge Anthrax fan.
Madhouse is their second-best song (after Metal Thrashing Mad).
Similar caveat - I think Anthrax are mostly worse than gooey dog shite walked through your new rug.
Quote from: Ducky on January 12, 2025, 01:49:45 AM"Immortally Insane" (from the FAKK 2 soundtrack) is Pantera's best song.
Good song but nowhere near the bands best. Seems to be forgotten about I don't think they have ever played it live.
Quote from: The Great Cull on January 12, 2025, 02:39:33 PMAlways think that about Can I Play With Madness
That was a key one I had in mind.
I don't think I've ever heard Immortally Insane.
Quote from: Ducky on January 12, 2025, 01:49:45 AM"Immortally Insane" (from the FAKK 2 soundtrack) is Pantera's best song.
It's a banger! Its on Reinventing Hell, the best of Pantera.
Don't know now if I'd go as far as saying its their best though, I've a fierce soft spot for Cemetery Gates myself.
Quote from: Ducky on January 12, 2025, 01:49:45 AM"Immortally Insane" (from the FAKK 2 soundtrack) is Pantera's best song.
It's okay but the main riff is Load-era Metallica
An interesting historic listen. Its kinda drags........ (the waters......)
I like 'Avoid the light' from the the Reinventing sessions better.
As a B-side release, I think I Can't Hide off 101 Proof is one of the best songs Pantera ever had
I'll second that 'Great Cull' rocking song.
That live album is over produced, but!!! 'I can't hide' rocks as well.
R
Quote from: The Great Cull on January 12, 2025, 02:39:33 PMQuote from: Polaris on January 12, 2025, 01:01:34 PMIron Maiden singles are very often amongst the worst tracks off each album.
Always think that about Can I Play With Madness
Many other bands have released shite songs as singles. Sweating Bullets, Fuel and Madhouse spring to mind.
Madhouse is a cracking track!
Should've made Top of the Pops ffs!
Speaking of And Justice For All in the other thread got me thinking about how I've never been super into that album. I know people love it, but there's something about it that has never really grabbed me that I can't put my finger on. If RtL and MoP are solid 10s, AJFA hovers around a 7 for me. There's just something a little flat about it? If you forget about their 90s hard rock stuff then for me it hints at the lifeless, one dimensional thrash they've been releasing late in their career. Not that Justice is exactly like that, but it feels like kind of a mid point between the classic, living breathing thrash masterpieces that came before and the kind of dead thrash that came later.
Very brave of you to publicly post such a wrong opinion.
Quote from: Mooncat on July 29, 2025, 03:32:55 PMSpeaking of And Justice For All in the other thread got me thinking about how I've never been super into that album. I know people love it, but there's something about it that has never really grabbed me that I can't put my finger on. If RtL and MoP are solid 10s, AJFA hovers around a 7 for me. There's just something a little flat about it? If you forget about their 90s hard rock stuff then for me it hints at the lifeless, one dimensional thrash they've been releasing late in their career. Not that Justice is exactly like that, but it feels like kind of a mid point between the classic, living breathing thrash masterpieces that came before and the kind of dead thrash that came later.
Sweet lord.
RTL and MOP are like the machine gun toting cavalry, AJFA is he sniper on the hill.
Both killers, both operate differently.
AJFA is one of those albums that act as a sonic time capsule.
I remember where I was exactly when I heard it, same with Reign In Blood, Appetite etc.
Justice isn't even my favourite Metallica album but when I need that cold steel Metallica fix it's the one I reach for.
Quote from: Mooncat on July 29, 2025, 03:32:55 PMSpeaking of And Justice For All in the other thread got me thinking about how I've never been super into that album. I know people love it, but there's something about it that has never really grabbed me that I can't put my finger on. If RtL and MoP are solid 10s, AJFA hovers around a 7 for me. There's just something a little flat about it? If you forget about their 90s hard rock stuff then for me it hints at the lifeless, one dimensional thrash they've been releasing late in their career. Not that Justice is exactly like that, but it feels like kind of a mid point between the classic, living breathing thrash masterpieces that came before and the kind of dead thrash that came later.
I'm the opposite - Puppets and AJFA are 10/10, RtL is the 7. Shite ballad plus obvious filler (Escape) drag it right down.
MoP 10/10
RtL 9/10
AJFA 8.5/10
There's a real drop in authenticity in James' vocals in several places on AJFA for me, forced like.
RTL is perfect, not a bad song on it. Escape is one of my favourite Metallica songs. If I had to I'd bring MOP down to 7 - Leper Messiah is shìt and Disposable Heroes isn't much better.
The sound is definitely thin on AJFA, like it or not that drags it down. We've all grown up with it and that's simply how the album sounds, but it could sound better. A lot better. The problem is, no matter how good a job someone has done on adding bass, remixed stems, etc. it just sounds wrong as it's not what we grew up with. Same thing with altered tracklists (Maiden) or rerecorded elements (MegaDave).
Quote from: Squigs on July 29, 2025, 03:52:28 PMVery brave of you to publicly post such a wrong opinion.
:laugh:
AJFA tied with MOP for best Metallica album.
RTL is fine. Rest of the catalog has good songs here and there but no good albums.
Seek & Destroy is one of the worst songs going and feels like it is taking years off you listening to it. Agonising
Quote from: Mooncat on July 29, 2025, 03:32:55 PMSpeaking of And Justice For All in the other thread got me thinking about how I've never been super into that album. I know people love it, but there's something about it that has never really grabbed me that I can't put my finger on. If RtL and MoP are solid 10s, AJFA hovers around a 7 for me. There's just something a little flat about it? If you forget about their 90s hard rock stuff then for me it hints at the lifeless, one dimensional thrash they've been releasing late in their career. Not that Justice is exactly like that, but it feels like kind of a mid point between the classic, living breathing thrash masterpieces that came before and the kind of dead thrash that came later.
I agree. In places it actually sounds aimless and confused. Overall the songs come out on top, but structurally some of it sounds like it was constructed on a white board. It is littered with strange little cul de sac parts that could have been cut out. It's a flawed album, but still it overcomes its shortcomings in the end.
Quote from: Carnage on July 29, 2025, 08:14:27 PMRTL is perfect, not a bad song on it. Escape is one of my favourite Metallica songs. If I had to I'd bring MOP down to 7 - Leper Messiah is shìt and Disposable Heroes isn't much better.
The sound is definitely thin on AJFA, like it or not that drags it down. We've all grown up with it and that's simply how the album sounds, but it could sound better. A lot better. The problem is, no matter how good a job someone has done on adding bass, remixed stems, etc. it just sounds wrong as it's not what we grew up with. Same thing with altered tracklists (Maiden) or rerecorded elements (MegaDave).
Leper Messiah is in my top two 'Tallica songs :'(
Mop and AJFA tied for top spot for me!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 29, 2025, 08:05:47 PMThere's a real drop in authenticity in James' vocals in several places on AJFA for me, forced like.
Cocaine and untreated trauma definitely had a part to play there.
I think Voivod are the most consistent band of my era, stone cold classics throughout their career. Northingface is my favourite but you could add another 4 at least to the list of 5 star albums and another 4 or 5, 4 star albums.
Quote from: Don Gately on July 31, 2025, 09:00:00 AMI think Voivod are the most consistent band of my era, stone cold classics throughout their career. Northingface is my favourite but you could add another 4 at least to the list of 5 star albums and another 4 or 5, 4 star albums.
Nothing controversial about this, it's just a straight up fact.
Title track of AJFA is one of the most underrated Metallica songs.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on July 31, 2025, 11:26:39 AMQuote from: Don Gately on July 31, 2025, 09:00:00 AMI think Voivod are the most consistent band of my era, stone cold classics throughout their career. Northingface is my favourite but you could add another 4 at least to the list of 5 star albums and another 4 or 5, 4 star albums.
Nothing controversial about this, it's just a straight up fact.
tis yeah
Voivod up next for me but which album
Quote from: astfgyl on July 31, 2025, 11:44:46 PMQuote from: Pentagrimes on July 31, 2025, 11:26:39 AMQuote from: Don Gately on July 31, 2025, 09:00:00 AMI think Voivod are the most consistent band of my era, stone cold classics throughout their career. Northingface is my favourite but you could add another 4 at least to the list of 5 star albums and another 4 or 5, 4 star albums.
Nothing controversial about this, it's just a straight up fact.
tis yeah
Voivod up next for me but which album
Killing Technology/Dimension Hatross for sure.
But honestly they don't have a bad one.
The Eternal Idol might just be Iommi's heaviest riff
I've been listening repeatedly to Killers by Iron Maiden for the last week and I'm starting to think it's their best album. It's the perfect mix of heavy metal and punk with the unpredictability of prog.
There's loads of moments in the album where songs switch styles seamlessly - Murders in the Rue Morgue starts out with a mournful guitar passage before morphing into a more straightforward punky song. Genghis Khan is a fantastic instrumental that contains progressive twists but doesn't overstay it's welcome, and Prodigal Son wouldn't sound out of place on Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds.
I love the Bruce stuff but after Killers the band pretty much dumped the punk influences and the songwriting became less interesting. Also there are no dud tracks on Killers unlike every Brucey album.
Quote from: Maggot Colony on September 15, 2025, 09:24:08 AMI've been listening repeatedly to Killers by Iron Maiden for the last week and I'm starting to think it's their best album. It's the perfect mix of heavy metal and punk with the unpredictability of prog.
There's loads of moments in the album where songs switch styles seamlessly - Murders in the Rue Morgue starts out with a mournful guitar passage before morphing into a more straightforward punky song. Genghis Khan is a fantastic instrumental that contains progressive twists but doesn't overstay it's welcome, and Prodigal Son wouldn't sound out of place on Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds.
I love the Bruce stuff but after Killers the band pretty much dumped the punk influences and the songwriting became less interesting. Also there are no dud tracks on Killers unlike every Brucey album.
I'll back you up on this one - they have never made a better sounding album, even the lesser tracks like Another Life sound awesome; there is nothing I would change about it. The next album that was consistently as good was Seventh Son.
Quote from: Maggot Colony on September 15, 2025, 09:24:08 AMI've been listening repeatedly to Killers by Iron Maiden for the last week and I'm starting to think it's their best album. It's the perfect mix of heavy metal and punk with the unpredictability of prog.
There's loads of moments in the album where songs switch styles seamlessly - Murders in the Rue Morgue starts out with a mournful guitar passage before morphing into a more straightforward punky song. Genghis Khan is a fantastic instrumental that contains progressive twists but doesn't overstay it's welcome, and Prodigal Son wouldn't sound out of place on Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds.
I love the Bruce stuff but after Killers the band pretty much dumped the punk influences and the songwriting became less interesting. Also there are no dud tracks on Killers unlike every Brucey album.
Just listening to Killers again now... it is fucking deadly, it must be said
I have to say... Number of the Beast is fucjen amazeballs all the way through. Imagine the joy of hearing it in 1982
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on July 31, 2025, 09:23:19 PMTitle track of AJFA is one of the most underrated Metallica songs.
Have to agree there! :abbath:
I'd listen to The X Factor any day ahead of Killers. The latter is awful muck.
WHAT!!!? You're absolutely mad :laugh:
Hai, yeah never liked the bugger at all :laugh:
If we had a "worst second album" thread, this and Hell Awaits are cream/poop of the crop for me :abbath:
Blaze is doing a Maiden set at Keep It True in a couple of weeks, turns out he'll be doing all of The X Factor, so I've been doing some homework. Jaysus it's a fucking slog getting through that album. You can practically hear the wheels seize up on Harris' E-C-D-E wagon, he is flat out of ideas but just grinds out a poxy song regardless 😂
Quote from: Bürggermeister on September 15, 2025, 09:08:36 PMI have to say... Number of the Beast is fucjen amazeballs all the way through. Imagine the joy of hearing it in 1982
Listening to Beast now. It's a brilliant album but I still think Killers is superior.
Quote from: Ducky on September 15, 2025, 10:46:37 PMI'd listen to The X Factor any day ahead of Killers. The latter is awful muck.
Shame on you. Leave the hall and take your Jamiroquai vinyl collection with you.
I actually like quite a bit of the X Factor but that Priest from EastEnders did mess Steve up a bit by fucking his wife.
Quote from: Maggot Colony on September 16, 2025, 09:40:20 AMQuote from: Ducky on September 15, 2025, 10:46:37 PMI'd listen to The X Factor any day ahead of Killers. The latter is awful muck.
Shame on you. Leave the hall and take your Jamiroquai vinyl collection with you.
My Jamiroquai collection is on the superior audio format, namelt compact disc :abbath:
Killers is, of course excellent. My first Maiden album (chosen simply because it had the most songs, this was mid-'80s), never looked back. It's held up well, sounds great (I love the bass tone in particular). Some of their best sonhs are on there - Murders In The Rue Morgue alone is a serious statement of intent.
The X Factor is far from a great album - with the best will in the world, Bayley just didn't have the voice for it - but it is the best of the bad '90s bunch.
Quote from: Anvil on September 16, 2025, 09:57:46 AMI actually like quite a bit of the X Factor but that Priest from EastEnders did mess Steve up a bit by fucking his wife.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
"SHE'S TURNED THE WEANS AGAINST US ROD"
Quote from: Maggot Colony on September 16, 2025, 09:40:20 AMQuote from: Ducky on September 15, 2025, 10:46:37 PMI'd listen to The X Factor any day ahead of Killers. The latter is awful muck.
Shame on you. Leave the hall and take your Jamiroquai vinyl collection with you.
Killers is a top 5 Maiden album easily. 'Muck' it certainly is not. Seems like you're being edgy for the sake of it,to each his own though. One song on it that never gets any mention is 'Another Life', really good overlooked track. Paul Dianno RIP. If the X Factor had more songs on it like 'Man On The Edge' it would be brilliant but it's tepid at best imo. If you like it , respect.
I wouldn't say Killers is a bad album but I can't give it more than 7.5/10 at best. There are some amazing highs on there - title track, Wrathchild, Purgatory, Murders in the Rue Morgue, Prodigal Son (which is total Jethro Tull worship) - but there are several songs on there which are blatantly B side material. I think Harris said that the first two Maiden albums encompassed their whole repertoire up to then, and that the strongest songs mostly went on the debut and the leftovers mostly went on Killers, and it's pretty obvious when you listen to them both.
The lack of a proper epic a la Phantom Of The Opera also is an issue, had one been included I think that would make it an 8/10 album at least.
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on September 19, 2025, 12:58:01 PMI wouldn't say Killers is a bad album but I can't give it more than 7.5/10 at best. There are some amazing highs on there - title track, Wrathchild, Purgatory, Murders in the Rue Morgue, Prodigal Son (which is total Jethro Tull worship) - but there are several songs on there which are blatantly B side material. I think Harris said that the first two Maiden albums encompassed their whole repertoire up to then, and that the strongest songs mostly went on the debut and the leftovers mostly went on Killers, and it's pretty obvious when you listen to them both.
The lack of a proper epic a la Phantom Of The Opera also is an issue, had one been included I think that would make it an 8/10 album at least.
Not sure I would even give it 7.5, particularly when you sit out alongside either the debut or Number of the Beast- both 10s.
There's two clangers on Number of The Beast. Invaders is ridiculous and never cared for Gangland. Total Eclipse should've gone on there.
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on September 19, 2025, 01:12:43 PMThere's two clangers on Number of The Beast. Invaders is ridiculous and never cared for Gangland. Total Eclipse should've gone on there.
Invaders is one of their worst songs from the 80s. Awful muck. Gangland is okay, but definitely the weakest of the rest of the album. 22 Acacia Avenue is another one I'm happy to skip.
Totally agree about Total Eclipse too,
Invaders is getting to be famously divisive on here, Love it myself
There are no duds on The Number Of The Best, you silly billies. Gangland in particular is fucking deadly. That drum intro...
Invaders rules.
Invaders and Gangland are class, lads, what lunacy is this? Total Eclipse is alright but that album is just fine as it is, thank you very much.
They're feckin' savage. Always take me back to hearing the record as a kid.
I'm not the biggest Maiden fan there is but Invaders is a great song. As someone said earlier the whole album is a classic.
QuoteInvaders and Gangland are class, lads, what lunacy is this?
This is the controversial metal opinions thread :laugh:
Nah Invaders is scutter, the fucking hack of that riff after auld brucie sings invaders
Watain announcing a breakup 3 years from now is absolutely unnecessary
Yet the press release is fucking priceless :laugh:
Just read it :eyeroll:
Nonsense stuff.
I've never heard a note of Watain but I gather they're a watered down version of Dissection. Should I bother?
Glad they'll be doing a final album - I like latter day Watain. Might not be orthodox black metal but its good fun.
That's 15 years too late they should have ended things after Lawless Darkness. Doubt the farewell tour will be coming here was the last time they played here DOD in 2008 and then the only other time was supporting Dissection? On at least two other occasions they were suppose to play and the shows never happened. I even seem to remember something about H refusing to book them?
Quote from: Carnage on September 20, 2025, 09:33:35 PMNonsense stuff.
I've never heard a note of Watain but I gather they're a watered down version of Dissection. Should I bother?
Nah, far less melodic/catchy, I find they go in one ear and out the other a lot of the time. I really like "Casus Luciferi" but the other stuff doesn't really grab me bar a song or two. Not awful or anything.
Ya, ridiculous carry on.
Holy shit that press release was next level cringe. You'd understand if it was some over-enthusiastic 18yrs olds, but fuck me...
Just reading the statement there again today, what's the craic, seems like they're implying a suicide pact/GG Allin "die on stage" kinda lark.
That'd be great.
:laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Pentagrimes on September 22, 2025, 01:39:51 PMJust reading the statement there again today, what's the craic, seems like they're implying a suicide pact/GG Allin "die on stage" kinda lark.
Well they did cover GG so ya never know.
"Watain presents:A faecal farewell" sponsored by Fybogel, Weatabix and Death Wish Coffee
I have been listening to the first four albums over the last few days having not listened to them since I last saw them in 2018. The first 2 are still great and the 3rd / 4th albums are good. They are almost like the black metal version of Behemoth never quite fully sold out but something about them just doesn't sit right. At least Watain are somewhat respectable whereas Behemoth are not.
Quote from: mickO))) on September 24, 2025, 12:13:09 AMI have been listening to the first four albums over the last few days having not listened to them since I last saw them in 2018. The first 2 are still great and the 3rd / 4th albums are good. They are almost like the black metal version of Behemoth never quite fully sold out but something about them just doesn't sit right. At least Watain are somewhat respectable whereas Behemoth are not.
Ha that's a good comparison actually!
Behemoth are a complete joke. Pantomime shit. Nergal is a joke too - a hob knobber. As Dunphy would say "Spoofer Bill"
I suppose the difference is Watain see themselves as some side of outsiders/rebels/cult leaders, whereas Nergal seems to see himself as Kanye West
Quote from: Pentagrimes on September 24, 2025, 12:34:23 PMI suppose the difference is Watain see themselves as some side of outsiders/rebels/cult leaders, whereas Nergal seems to see himself as Kanye West
Which actually makes him an outsider.
hmm, bad pick on my part. Insert random annpying flashy celebruty musician here.
Seems a prick but I quite like some Behemoth.
I know that Iommi came first and I get and appreciate that, but Tipton and Downing are THE GODS of heavy metal guitar!
Quote from: Ducky on September 19, 2025, 01:37:34 PMQuote from: Pagan Saviour on September 19, 2025, 01:12:43 PMThere's two clangers on Number of The Beast. Invaders is ridiculous and never cared for Gangland. Total Eclipse should've gone on there.
Invaders is one of their worst songs from the 80s. Awful muck. Gangland is okay, but definitely the weakest of the rest of the album. 22 Acacia Avenue is another one I'm happy to skip.
Totally agree about Total Eclipse too,
Opening old wounds here but... 22 Acacia Avenue... skip? Ah now!!
Invaders is also class!
Quote from: The Heretic on March 02, 2026, 10:10:59 AMI know that Iommi came first and I get and appreciate that, but Tipton and Downing are THE GODS of heavy metal guitar!
You're certainly in the right thread anyway.
Quote from: Pat Twisted Wrath on March 02, 2026, 10:49:09 AMQuote from: Ducky on September 19, 2025, 01:37:34 PMQuote from: Pagan Saviour on September 19, 2025, 01:12:43 PMThere's two clangers on Number of The Beast. Invaders is ridiculous and never cared for Gangland. Total Eclipse should've gone on there.
Invaders is one of their worst songs from the 80s. Awful muck. Gangland is okay, but definitely the weakest of the rest of the album. 22 Acacia Avenue is another one I'm happy to skip.
Totally agree about Total Eclipse too,
Opening old wounds here but... 22 Acacia Avenue... skip? Ah now!!
Invaders is also class!
Probably said it before but Invaders and Gangland are both class. 22 Acacia Avenue is definitely the worst song on the album (see also: Charlotte The Harlot) but you couldn't skip it, it's part of the definitive Maiden album that we all* grew up with.
Total Eclipse is grand but wasn't a proper part of that album (American release be fucked) so doesn't belong in the tracklist as it stands - though for the craic I did come up with a reordered tracklist that includes all nine songs.
*Speaking for the old fart contingent here.
Quote from: Pat Twisted Wrath on March 02, 2026, 10:49:09 AMQuote from: Ducky on September 19, 2025, 01:37:34 PMQuote from: Pagan Saviour on September 19, 2025, 01:12:43 PMThere's two clangers on Number of The Beast. Invaders is ridiculous and never cared for Gangland. Total Eclipse should've gone on there.
Invaders is one of their worst songs from the 80s. Awful muck. Gangland is okay, but definitely the weakest of the rest of the album. 22 Acacia Avenue is another one I'm happy to skip.
Totally agree about Total Eclipse too,
Opening old wounds here but... 22 Acacia Avenue... skip? Ah now!!
Invaders is also class!
Yes and yes.
Listening to Justice here at the minute. Man, I love Lars's drumming. It ain't super techy but he knew what he was doing.
A lot of the lyrics to 22 Acacia Avenue are cringe as hell, but musically it's a great aul tune. Unlike Invaders.
The version of 22 Acacia Avenue on Live After Death is class, for me its one of the highlights of the album, I'm not as keen on the studio version though, its sluggish as fuck
If you find fault with Number of the Beast you need to have a good, long talk with yourself. You're crying for help.
Fuck Total Eclipse, too, it has no business on any version of the album.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 02, 2026, 11:51:05 AMQuote from: Pat Twisted Wrath on March 02, 2026, 10:49:09 AMQuote from: Ducky on September 19, 2025, 01:37:34 PMQuote from: Pagan Saviour on September 19, 2025, 01:12:43 PMThere's two clangers on Number of The Beast. Invaders is ridiculous and never cared for Gangland. Total Eclipse should've gone on there.
Invaders is one of their worst songs from the 80s. Awful muck. Gangland is okay, but definitely the weakest of the rest of the album. 22 Acacia Avenue is another one I'm happy to skip.
Totally agree about Total Eclipse too,
Opening old wounds here but... 22 Acacia Avenue... skip? Ah now!!
Invaders is also class!
Yes and yes.
Listening to Justice here at the minute. Man, I love Lars's drumming. It ain't super techy but he knew what he was doing.
His double kick part on One is probably the most influential drum part in metal. He wasn't the first to do it, but he sure was the most famous. Even in the 2000s all the teenage metal drummers would talk about that part and it would inspire them to get the double kick pedal, before they then pushed on and discovered heavier styles of metal and drummers who were beasts at it.
I think Phil Taylor and then Stefan Kaufmann would be mentioned first, Lombardo too. As kids, the double bass bit in Angel of Death was the benchmark. I think One gets credit because of the video, the way it was shot showing his feet was genius, but I don't recall it getting so much attention before the video. It remains cool as fuck, though, to be fair.
One has the guitar and kicks played together so it's different beast.
Quote from: Bürggermeister on March 02, 2026, 05:41:30 PMI think Phil Taylor and then Stefan Kaufmann would be mentioned first, Lombardo too. As kids, the double bass bit in Angel of Death was the benchmark. I think One gets credit because of the video, the way it was shot showing his feet was genius, but I don't recall it getting so much attention before the video. It remains cool as fuck, though, to be fair.
I imagine 99% of metal kids have no idea who any of those people are, bar a smallish percentage of them knowing Lombardo. Kids weren't flocking to buy double kick pedals because of Stefan Kaufmann, they were flocking to buy them because they saw Lars do it. Fair point though about the video, that's definitely what popularized it.
Metal Warfare factions over Invaders? Count me an Invader, deadly tune .
Icon is a cunt of an album. Bar a couple of songs it's just so boring. True Belief is almost brilliant, but Holmes keeps reverting back to his tuneless Hetfield impression when the crooning parts are the best moments in the song. Embers Fire is a beast of a song but it sounds to me like they spent the rest of the album trying to recapture its magic rather than exploring other possibilities.
Also, what's the fucking craic with Aaron Aedie (no idea how to spell that). A near 40 year career of playing Greg Mackintosh's rhythm parts. Has he contributed anything creatively to the band I wonder.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 02, 2026, 08:25:06 PMIcon is a cunt of an album. Bar a couple of songs it's just so boring. True Belief is almost brilliant, but Holmes keeps reverting back to his tuneless Hetfield impression when the crooning parts are the best moments in the song. Embers Fire is a beast of a song but it sounds to me like they spent the rest of the album trying to recapture its magic rather than exploring other possibilities.
Also, what's the fucking craic with Aaron Aedie (no idea how to spell that). A near 40 year career of playing Greg Mackintosh's rhythm parts. Has he contributed anything creatively to the band I wonder.
He does come across as the most likable of them on stage but yeah, seems content just being a functional player. God I remember Icon was huge at the time, it was everywhere ,Can't get down with calling it a cunt of an album at all but preference is for Shades..
Shades is so much better. I even struggle with Draconian. It's just too samey.
My girlfriend at the time was obsessed with Icon which meant that I was hearing it practically every day for a few years, I'd die happily without hearing it again. It was good, but not great and the guitar tone has always sounded off to me, so it's a weird one for sure.
I agree NOTB is 10/10 but my only gripe with it is since Alan mentioned it on the podcast, the fact they didn't open with the title track is madness and now I can't stop thinking about that when I listen to it.
Also Killers would come last for me out of the first 7 if I were to rank them, even though Purgatory is one of the best they've ever written.
Hmm, never thought of that , Invaders does seem like more of a deep cut and the title track would have made some opener, still though, would I knock half a point of it for that? Nah, still 10/10 here too.
Not exactly controversial. Maybe a bit coming from me... in work today driving to and from our job my colleage put on Lorna Shore and Humanity's Last Breath. I don't pay any attention to deathcore so the developments in that scene are lost on me. I was surprised at how dark both bands were. LS were very bombastic with their use of keys. You could hear an Emperor and Behemoth influence, which I didn't expect. Then HLB were just very deep and dark sounding. A bit monotone on the old e-minor chuggery, but still effective and atmospheric. Will I rush out and buy their CDs? That's unlikely. But colour me impressed.
A former acquaintance was mad into Lorna Shore and I ended up getting some of their albums at their suggestion. They didn't appreciate my comment about parts sounding like Cradle of Filth. Thought they were okay, not really my cup of tea, but really have no staying power.
Edit: also I find people who like this style of music are total obsessed with the break downs... which I don't get.
I've heard bits of Lorna Shore, it seems to be lots of breakdowns strung together.
I love breakdowns but there has to be the bit leading up to it for it to work.
The live footage seems like their crowd goes bananas for them.
There seems to be a load of effects of his on his voice to make it seem more crazy.
I've listened to Slaughter To Prevail a bit, another one that seems to write the whole set for a pit over the quality of the song.
In the album by Lorna Shore that was on, and it was on in the background while we were chatting, I wasn't overwhelmed by breakdowns. It was the sense of majesty brought by the keyboards that caught my ear more than anything. Some nice widdly solos too.
The other lads sounded much darker and yes, it was more overtly chugg-central, but to my ear maybe more Meshuggah-ish rhythmically. But the vibe was very much an evil one rather than a mosh pit one. Something about it put Breach in my mind, but it didn't exactly sound like them either, just that sense of blackness that was coming off it.
I was taken aback on both counts though. They seemed to be pushing that deathcore style in a more ominous direction which was interesting. Like, the image it was putting in my head wasn't exactly neck tattoos and three quarter length shorts 😅
I had a similar experience when my nephew played Knocked Loose for me. I'm not saying I enjoyed it, but I was surprised at how intense the music is especially given how popular they are. I was expecting a watered down version of Slipknot but they're actually heavy as fuck, and the singer sounds like a deranged hyena. I'm a bit bemused by how popular they are, but I'm glad the nephew is listening to heavier stuff instead of Ed cunting Sheeran.
Actually, the last CD I bought was Ed Sheeran. It wasn't for me, but still.
You should be ashamed of yourself. If my wife asked me to buy anything Ed Sheeran related I'd leave her and the kids. Fuck them all.
No mercy.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 03, 2026, 05:24:43 AMNot exactly controversial. Maybe a bit coming from me... in work today driving to and from our job my colleage put on Lorna Shore and Humanity's Last Breath. I don't pay any attention to deathcore so the developments in that scene are lost on me. I was surprised at how dark both bands were. LS were very bombastic with their use of keys. You could hear an Emperor and Behemoth influence, which I didn't expect. Then HLB were just very deep and dark sounding. A bit monotone on the old e-minor chuggery, but still effective and atmospheric. Will I rush out and buy their CDs? That's unlikely. But colour me impressed.
Similarly, a colleague from work is big into that kind of music and he keeps sending me stuff to check out. A lot of it is undeniably heavy but it has that sterile, overproduced sound. It's grand and I'm sure these lads are capable of reproducing it note for note in a live setting, but that's not really what does it for me when it comes to metal. Maybe not the greatest example but I recently watched a video of Abbadon Incarnate from a gig in Cork a few years back...now I'm not a musician and im not for one second suggesting that AI aren't technically proficient, but the performance had that raw, chaotic feel to it which is what I love about going to gigs.
As already mentioned, those bands seem to structure their songs around breakdowns which is just boring as fuck.
Quote from: Maggot Colony on March 03, 2026, 10:46:19 AMYou should be ashamed of yourself. If my wife asked me to buy anything Ed Sheeran related I'd leave her and the kids. Fuck them all.
Me too. I'm not married, but I would get married just so I could leave them for that reason too.
Voivod's "Post Society" EP is the best thing they've ever released. And I say that with the opinion that both "Killing Technology" and "Dimension Hatross" are 10/10 records.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 03, 2026, 05:24:43 AMNot exactly controversial. Maybe a bit coming from me... in work today driving to and from our job my colleage put on Lorna Shore and Humanity's Last Breath. I don't pay any attention to deathcore so the developments in that scene are lost on me. I was surprised at how dark both bands were. LS were very bombastic with their use of keys. You could hear an Emperor and Behemoth influence, which I didn't expect. Then HLB were just very deep and dark sounding. A bit monotone on the old e-minor chuggery, but still effective and atmospheric. Will I rush out and buy their CDs? That's unlikely. But colour me impressed.
Think for that generation of bands the keys tend to come more
from video games than
COF/Dimmu/Emperor.
Quote from: Sworntothecans on March 07, 2026, 07:24:50 AMQuote from: Eoin McLove on March 03, 2026, 05:24:43 AMNot exactly controversial. Maybe a bit coming from me... in work today driving to and from our job my colleage put on Lorna Shore and Humanity's Last Breath. I don't pay any attention to deathcore so the developments in that scene are lost on me. I was surprised at how dark both bands were. LS were very bombastic with their use of keys. You could hear an Emperor and Behemoth influence, which I didn't expect. Then HLB were just very deep and dark sounding. A bit monotone on the old e-minor chuggery, but still effective and atmospheric. Will I rush out and buy their CDs? That's unlikely. But colour me impressed.
Think for that generation of bands the keys tend to come more
from video games than
COF/Dimmu/Emperor.
Could well be, yeah.