Controversial Metal Opinions

[Cosmic_Equilibrium]

The Great Southern Trendkill is Pantera's Sabotage.

[Carnage]

But Sabotage is good.

[mugz]

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[Juggz]

In what way?

[mugz]

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[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I guess he was asking the person making the comparison with Sabotage, which has me intrigued too, since it could be interpreted in any number of ways depending on subjective opinion of one or both albums :/

[Cosmic_Equilibrium]

In the wider context of both albums.

Sabotage and TGST are both records made by bands with their backs to the wall and middle finger in the air. Both are arguably the last worthwhile/classic records of the classic Sabbath line up and Pantera. Both were made in trying circumstances and amidst band tensions - Sabbath were coming out of a year-long legal battle with their former management, Pantera were affected by Anselmo's distancing from the rest of the band and the controversies surrounding him at the time. Both were made by bands strung out on heavy substance usage - Sabbath were complete coke heads at this point (and were doing practically everything else under the sun as well), Pantera were heavy alcoholics and Anselmo had started using heroin. Both albums are considered as overlooked classics by some critics and also sections of the band's fan base. Both albums are also the most experimental and creatively varied each band got. And both albums are each band's most abrasive, underpinned by seething anger that in places is almost psychotic (seriously, just listen to The Writ for unbridled venom, and the sheer intensity of some of the songs on TGST). Ozzy and Anselmo both sound they are on the point of going over the edge at times.

I think there are a lot of similarities. Both albums just have an almighty "fuck you" vibe going on, with the band just going for it. There's strong reasons for saying that both are each band's high point.

[mugz]

...

[mugz]

In the wider context of both albums.

Sabotage and TGST are both records made by bands with their backs to the wall and middle finger in the air. Both are arguably the last worthwhile/classic records of the classic Sabbath line up and Pantera. Both were made in trying circumstances and amidst band tensions - Sabbath were coming out of a year-long legal battle with their former management, Pantera were affected by Anselmo's distancing from the rest of the band and the controversies surrounding him at the time. Both were made by bands strung out on heavy substance usage - Sabbath were complete coke heads at this point (and were doing practically everything else under the sun as well), Pantera were heavy alcoholics and Anselmo had started using heroin. Both albums are considered as overlooked classics by some critics and also sections of the band's fan base. Both albums are also the most experimental and creatively varied each band got. And both albums are each band's most abrasive, underpinned by seething anger that in places is almost psychotic (seriously, just listen to The Writ for unbridled venom, and the sheer intensity of some of the songs on TGST). Ozzy and Anselmo both sound they are on the point of going over the edge at times.

I think there are a lot of similarities. Both albums just have an almighty "fuck you" vibe going on, with the band just going for it. There's strong reasons for saying that both are each band's high point.

yes, I can go along with all that

[mugz]

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[Cosmic_Equilibrium]

The Great Southern Trendkill is Pantera's Sabotage.

your followup explanation is the opposite of how the initial statement came across

Hmm OK. I basically mean that the contextual background, approach and vibe of both albums are similar.

Sabotage is anything but standard Sabbath though, it's a wild ride.

[mugz]

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[Giggles]

sabotage is just standard sabbath

Both are arguably the last worthwhile/classic records of the classic Sabbath line up.

Both albums are considered as overlooked classics

Both albums are also the most experimental and creatively varied

Both albums are each band's most abrasive

There's strong reasons for saying that both are each band's high point.

yes, I can go along with all that

Are you saying that Sabotage is only standard quality Sabbath, but it's also all those other things?

Or are you saying that Sabbath, as their standard, are always all those other things?

Either way they are two quality albums with very strong openers. Hole in the Sky is one of my favourite Sabbath songs, and that cowboy riff at the end of The Great Southern Trendkill is pure tasty.

[astfgyl]

Just saying The Great Southern Trendkill is great. Drag The Waters is a bit of a drag, fair enough but the rest of it is all quality

[Carnage]

The last two Pantera albuns were shite, TGST is just that bit less shit than RTS.

Sabotage is great, but that and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath are just below the standard of the first four, with a couple of filler tracks on each. Still leagues ahead of their other two, of course.