Experts appear to have put a number on the climate deadline. Twelve years to halt the destruction of the environment or there is no turning back. We might already beyond the point of no return. On top of that we have the advancement in AI which could be a double edged sword- rendering the human workforce obsolete could be viewed from several angles I'm sure. There was a report on the radio a few years back that described how the Earth's human population appears to cyclically reduce to a ludicrously low number like 300,000 every 30,000 years, so perhaps we are heading back into that cycle of decline. Is it all hysterical nonsense or are we fucked? It feels good to recycle and do our bit to cut down on plastic waste, carbon emissions etc but is it a waste of time? It seems obvious to me that countries setting targets for 2035 or 2050 are burying their head in the sand, or just refusing to take the matter seriously, but maybe I've just been brainwashed. What are your thoughts? Hype or Armageddon?
Prepare to be pummelled into oblivion by the old dreaded Carbon Tax.
Plastics have to be sorted out though. No need for 80% of it really. Our grandparents generation had it right, cloth shopping bag, glass jars and tin cans.
I think that we're bollixed.
I was reading a thing in The Guardian the other day about how no matter well meaning our attempts at recycling are a lot of the stuff that we do makes little impact and that the recycling guidelines on packaging aren't accurate or, in some cases, meaningless. It's an interesting read so I'm going to leave the link here;
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/17/recycling-plastic-wrong-guide
My local coffee place has switched to compostable cups and eco-safe dishwasher tablets. All great until you note that the sleeve which the cup is packed in is plastic and each dishwasher tablet come wrapped in its own individual plastic pocket.
This is not to say that I think recycling is futile and there's no point to it (I mean just take a look at my glass bin every 2 weeks, that alone has saved a few polar bears). I just think that companies, governments and consumers all need to be more proactive and clever.
Unless there's an overhaul on a worldwide industrial scale of greener production methods, environmentally, we are completely fucked yeah. But I don't know if twelve years would do it. All well and good individual consumers doing their part but it has to change noticeably at the source, and a full switch to renewable materials and power, or we'll drive ourselves into the ground. There is no ethical or green consumption under the system we have built for ourselves as a civilisation and without radical overhauls everywhere, individual efforts are mostly performative. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do them, nor does it mean you should beat yourself up when not doing them - just do the best you can. I certainly fuckin don't, but I do the usual consumer end of things, recycling and that. I'd never go full vegetarian but had reduced the number of days I ate meat a week for a long time. Buy local within reason. If everybody made small changes it would add up, but without tackling production at the roots we'll never fix the issue.
AI is another issue and yeah that has us fucked through the automation of labour, but the effects are impossible to predict fully. Great, but old, video on it here by CGP grey: https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU
I have mixed feelings on the outcomes of both, natural pessimism makes me think that we're done for but you would hope otherwise.
That is more out less my take on things. Even if my modest/ irrelevant part is ultimately futile, I think it's the right path. But definitely the problem lies at the source. Hugh Fernly Whittingstal has a tv show on at the minute and he showed what happens to much of the UK's recycled plastic. It ends up in Malaysia, destroying their fucking environment! It would make you sick.
We are all fucked, but it's grand. Earth won't miss us, and neither will we.
Every generation inherits the previous ones failures,, we've been passing 'hand me down clothes' for so long that the edges have frayed and holes are appearing more and more in them. But we cover them up with shitty patches to get some more wear out of it.. let the next person worry about it.
Money & Ignorance are why things (probably) won't change. You get all the crap of stop using plastic straws/bags.... how about stop manufactures from making them today . People can't buy whats not available. Very simplistic approach but it's always being put on individuals backs (who are at fault also) while doing the whole 'supply and demand' line.
I don't know, just rambling but if change is to happen it needs to be a day and night type event.. just stop. But most of these guys in power are more concerned about their own welfare than anyone else's.
The more you think about it the more depressing it is
Absolutely. Humans are incredibly adaptable and the novel becomes the norm in no time at all. A day and night approach to these matters, as you say, is exactly what is needed, not the promises for 2035, which are meaningless. The fact that the development of wind farms get halted because some twits say they are ugly is mind bending.
We'll adapt and evolve and survive. All this nihilistic, doomsday stuff is best taken with a pinch of salt as far as I'm concerned. Imagine having lived through Nagasaki..then you'd be properly fucked. Recycling is a joke. Austria send their rubbish to Italy, god knows where ours go, the Canadians were shipping theirs out to South East Asia. That Norwegian chick who loves telling us we're all evil and we're all going to die, if she was carrying a bible she'd be locked up.
Of course there are issues, but they require systemic change rather than me dividing my bottles at home, which all get thrown together at the end of the day and fucked in a hole in the ground. Call me cynical but I've worked in multinationals and large scale businesses...lots of it, similar to the whole LGBT flag waving these corporations engage in, is purely cynical and superficial.
But behind it all we have governments and car companies and all these big businesses creaming themselves over the green dollar. One of the Healy Rae's (unbelievably) hit the nail on the head asking how we expect the already stretched rural community to somehow start driving around in beaitiful electric cars, in places where we have tiny populations and the actual pollution being created is almost non-existent. Wind farms too..a complete waste of money, destroy the landscape and are not a viable long term solution from what I've read.
Imagine a decentralized Ireland, a proper long term plan with infrastructure put in place, where millions of people aren't stuck on top of eachother, where you don't even need a car everything works so well. Then look at arseways Dublin and the likes. Nothing is getting done in a hurry on a higher level, lots of box ticking, plenty of five year plans and even more pressure on normal people who have enough on their fucking plates without having to worry about global cataclysm, and I would imagine that actual changes are miniscule.
That's my tuppence, I know it's not a popular viewpoint, but I'm deeply cynical, not so much about global.warming and the science behind it(though I sense a lot of vested interests on that level also) but about the ways we are supposedly combating it.
Quote from: Aborted on June 19, 2019, 12:31:18 PM
Money & Ignorance are why things (probably) won't change. You get all the crap of stop using plastic straws/bags.... how about stop manufactures from making them today . People can't buy whats not available. Very simplistic approach but it's always being put on individuals backs (who are at fault also) while doing the whole 'supply and demand' line.
Yep..imagine Coca Cola had to do something about all them bottles. Imagine some real pressure was put on them. But it's not..
I disagree about wind farms. I like the look of them and I like what they represent. Renewable energy has to become the mainstream sooner rather than later. They appear to have a fairly low impact on ecosystems too from what I can see. Once they are in place they more or less run themselves and the environment can quickly revive.
Technologically and in terms of efficiency they may prove to be primitive compared with what may be invented in future, but if we keep on waiting for better technology to emerge when do we actually act? If thinking in a way that is sensitive to the environment becomes the norm, becomes expected, then that's a big step in the right direction.
Sadly everything else you said seems depressingly true. But mass resignation won't help is in any way so what do we do?
Quote from: StoutAndAle on June 19, 2019, 12:02:58 PM
I think that we're bollixed.
I was reading a thing in The Guardian the other day about how no matter well meaning our attempts at recycling are a lot of the stuff that we do makes little impact and that the recycling guidelines on packaging aren't accurate or, in some cases, meaningless. It's an interesting read so I'm going to leave the link here;
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/17/recycling-plastic-wrong-guide
My local coffee place has switched to compostable cups and eco-safe dishwasher tablets. All great until you note that the sleeve which the cup is packed in is plastic and each dishwasher tablet come wrapped in its own individual plastic pocket.
This is not to say that I think recycling is futile and there's no point to it (I mean just take a look at my glass bin every 2 weeks, that alone has saved a few polar bears). I just think that companies, governments and consumers all need to be more proactive and clever.
Just had a read through that article. Defo time to ditch single use plastics. I know that will result in higher costs, and that bring up the old 'first world problems' chestnut, but plastic is hugely damaging to the environment. Essentially though, there are so many factors that need to be addressed, so many different pollutants that we use on a daily basis that the solution simply has to come from the top down.
This could be the perfect time to see what social media is really made of. People power has never been stronger. Causes are the new whatever... I wonder if, en masse, people decided to put pressure on the likes of Coca Cola, Tesco and other large companies responsible for introducing single use plastics into society, might a change actually happen. A mass movement against those companies via Twitter, Facebook etc could be effective.
Yeah but instead they go into central London gluing themselves to trains. I agree with everything you say but so many of the solutions I hear are pie in the sky stuff. If the changes were made at source there would be no problem, but everytime I go to a shop, I end up with a bag full of plastic in my kitchen. So by all means let's solve it, what I'm absolutely sick of is the hysteria and I think a lot of people are.
Everything is hysteria now. That's the age we live in and it's a pain in the hole alright. I think though, this is a cause worth being hysterical about haha. It's just getting the corporations to actually engage in a meaningful way. The amount of plastic and other packaging in the fruit and veg section of the supermarket is scandalous really. That's a really obvious and simple thing to fix.
Should just start eating eachother :abbath:
Are you asking me out?
I agree with all the sentiments involved here. I'd love to see battery tech improve to the point where you only need a few solar panels and some battery storage and that's you off grid. Single use plastics? Yeah get rid. Electric cars? Yeah sure I don't want to be breathing in those fumes. Lab plant based meat? Another great idea to get people to switch (tried the impossible burger and it was surprisingly great, the beyondmeat one was terrible).
The climate action plan for Ireland is laughable though...nothing can touch the agri sector which is the main source of emissions here. Carbon tax not ringfenced for any green initiatives like retrofitting or electric charging points?!
All this is grand but it pales in insignificance to the US/China machine (and soon to be India). Just us plebs getting taxed and jobs will be lost to automation is a whole different story that we aren't prepared for. I don't see anything down the tracks to stop them. What will be will be.
double post
Quote from: Eoin McLove on June 19, 2019, 03:14:17 PM
Are you asking me out?
well we wouldn't be short on pillow talk :laugh:
Quote from: The Butcher on June 19, 2019, 03:33:24 PM
The climate action plan for Ireland is laughable though...nothing can touch the agri sector which is the main source of emissions here. Carbon tax not ringfenced for any green initiatives like retrofitting or electric charging points?!
And that's the nub of the problem in Ireland. Really regressive measures, the government passing the buck on to the consumer, riding the crest of a green wave but doing it utterly back-arseways. And trying to curry favour with those who are environmentally conscious, they're likely to now bring about more protests, a la the water charges fiasco, because no thought has been put into it.
Agriculture got away very, very lightly in the programme, especially considering the impact of that sector.
Yeah, taxing is not a way out of this, especially when the most polluting sectors (beef farming, transport and aerospace) are getting somewhat of a pass. Then again I'm naturally geared towards pessimism so let's fiddle while Rome burns. (or play the lyre)
We're totally fucked.
Big ol' industrialised nations have become far too comfortable with their standard of living, which isn't sustainable.
Smaller places like Ireland are socially fucked too because all the retail jobs/town centres are being killed off by streaming services and the giant online retailers like Amazon. Then AI and increased automation will nuke lots of manufacturing jobs.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 19, 2019, 12:13:27 PM
We are all fucked, but it's grand. Earth won't miss us, and neither will we.
About right
Always reminded of something Attenborough said, to the effect that should the insects die, all other life on the planet would collapse. Should humanity perish, the rest of life on earth would get along quite well. Attenborough, the original black metal misanthrope.
Abbath-enborough :abbath:
What's really depressing, but not surprising, is knowing how fucked we are, trying your best to be as eco as you can, then watch this.
https://youtu.be/Pe42q8ZmjGU
Fucking Hell... No wonder we're all bollixed.
I'm must admit to being something of a climate skeptic...
Here's a bunch of predictions scientists were making in 1970.. Pretty much on the same scale as Nostradamus himself!!
http://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/
Quote from: Rodge on June 26, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
I'm must admit to being something of a climate skeptic...
Here's a bunch of predictions scientists were making in 1970.. Pretty much on the same scale as Nostradamus himself!!
http://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/
I'd be pretty certain the technology available now for making predictions is a bit more reliable now than in 1970 though
Interesting read. It is hopeful to read an optimistic assessment of the state of the environment but it's hard to know what to believe. The doomsday cries might be a bit heavy-handed compared to the reality of the situation but I'd still be more inclined toward a greener way of living. Anything that benefits the environment, even on a local scale, is inspiring to me.
It will be interesting to see how advancements in technology might in fact help to reduce pollution in the future but technology is always a double edged sword.
Quote from: Trev on June 26, 2019, 10:29:09 PM
Quote from: Rodge on June 26, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
I'm must admit to being something of a climate skeptic...
Here's a bunch of predictions scientists were making in 1970.. Pretty much on the same scale as Nostradamus himself!!
http://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/
I'd be pretty certain the technology available now for making predictions is a bit more reliable now than in 1970 though
From my viewpoint it's not so much about technologies being able to make predictions; it is about the motivations and interpretations of those who are creating the narratives..
I'm not denying that the world is fucked; but I'm certainly questioning the conclusions these people are selling us..
Quote from: Rodge on June 26, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
I'm must admit to being something of a climate skeptic...
Here's a bunch of predictions scientists were making in 1970.. Pretty much on the same scale as Nostradamus himself!!
http://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/
"That was a well written piece of non claptrap that didn't make me want to vomit". Joking aside, the aei describes itself as non partisan yet has taken flak for receiving millions in payments from exxonmobil and attempting to bribe independent scientists to make up critiques of papers on environmental issues. Aside from that the quotation marks like "earth day" and "environmentalists" , coupled with the derisive tone should be enough to show where their opinions lie.
Quote from: Scáthach on June 26, 2019, 10:50:49 PM
Quote from: Rodge on June 26, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
I'm must admit to being something of a climate skeptic...
Here's a bunch of predictions scientists were making in 1970.. Pretty much on the same scale as Nostradamus himself!!
http://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/
"That was a well written piece of non claptrap that didn't make me want to vomit". Joking aside, the aei describes itself as non partisan yet has taken flak for receiving millions in payments from exxonmobil and attempting to bribe independent scientists to make up critiques of papers on environmental issues. Aside from that the quotation marks like "earth day" and "environmentalists" , coupled with the derisive tone should be enough to show where their opinions lie.
I hear you..
If I could be bothered I'm sure I could find some evidence to show the exact same behaviour from "legitimate" climate scientists..
As John Bush once sang "Opinion's are all contradictions"..
We're living in 2019 after all ;)
This is it. At this stage I'm not even sure I exist anymore :laugh:
This seems to me the perfect time to quote the great Andy Cairns; "The world is fucked and so am I, or maybe it's the other way round I can't seem to decide".
He also sang 'masturbation saved my life'. Maybe we all just need to have a collective wank and chill the fuck out
Quote from: Pedrito on June 27, 2019, 12:20:00 AM
He also sang 'masturbation saved my life'. Maybe we all just need to have a collective wank and chill the fuck out
I'm only able to get off on the texture of single use plastic though.
Quote from: Rodge on June 26, 2019, 09:29:47 PM
I'm must admit to being something of a climate skeptic...
Here's a bunch of predictions scientists were making in 1970.. Pretty much on the same scale as Nostradamus himself!!
http://www.aei.org/publication/18-spectacularly-wrong-predictions-made-around-the-time-of-first-earth-day-in-1970-expect-more-this-year-2/
Currently reading Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker and he is drawing similar conclusions to the ones above while going into a lot more detail. I'm curious to see what his position is regarding the melting polar ice caps as he tends to have a much more optimistic view of the current and future state of the planet which goes against the current popular narrative.
Yeah, but Steven Pinker is also a hack.
A hack? How so? He seems to me to be eloquent and well researched. There is always a counter argument to any position but he seems to rely on a lot of data to back up his observations rather than simply saying nice things.
Does Harvard University employ hacks? Maybe I'm blinded by the bright lights?
He starts out with an idea and then collects and presents only data which agrees with that idea. That, from my view, makes him a hack. He's certainly eloquent - seductively so, we could say...but hacks can be and often are eloquent. I don't know how well-researched he really is, because I don't know whether he sits on data he has researched but which is inconvenient to his message, or whether he just doesn't know about it, despite his numerous critics, specialists in the fields he dabbles in, flashing it up at him.
Specifically:
His positions on the link between intelligence and genetics (culminating in the idea that the Ashkenazi jewish population have a genetic advantage for "intelligence") are morally suspect and, more importantly, built on chimeric conceptual foundations, not to mention a field of biology which is still far from fully understood.
The overall position he defends in Enlightenment Now and The Better Angels of our Nature, that things today are better than they've ever been which means that we're progressing in the "right" direction, is the result of a nimble dance between large-scale historical myopia, on the one hand, and a skewed microscope lens view of recent global development, on the other. Below, there's a brief video of Chomsky responding to one point of that, and elsewhere his use of only one highly, highly controversial data measure of global poverty as "proof" that poverty is declining is again evidence of his "hack" approach to "scientific" reasoning. I can't interpret the bottomline as anything other than apologetics for the globalization of Western liberal capitalism and democracy, a sort of update and spin-off to Fukuyama's infamous The End of History and the Last Man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0n4dbHbdA
Edit: As for whether Harvard employs hacks, his strictly academic early work in psycholinguistics is serious stuff. He is a hack today in the same way that Dawkins, the brilliant former evolutionary biologist and ethologist, is a hack today.
Having absolutely no scientific background I can hardly argue either point but is it not likely the case that he has studied the data, made a conclusion- perhaps influenced to a greater or lesser degree in favour of his own tendency towards technology as our hope for a solution rather than a smashing of the machines and a return to the fields- decided that this is the best course of action and presented the data that backs up his conclusion?
At some point even a scientist must weight up the data and deliver some sort of answer. If the book was 450 pages of graphs nobody would buy it and the argument would not get made.
I am torn between both approaches to the environmental question as the romantic part of my brain envisions a(n unrealistic?) bucolic future for society but the pragmatic part of my brain realises how miserable life would be without electricity and other modern conveniences. Doomsaying is very 'in' (whoever came up with the title of this thread really needs to cool the jets) but it isn't the most inspiring rallying cry. If there is a path to a better future for our planet that includes all the benefits of modern science and technology then it is likely to be a much more appealing call to arms.
What's your take on nuclear power, out of interest? He is an advocate and George Monbiot is a recent convert, too- a greener green you'd be hard pressed to find. I'd have been in the sceptic camp until reading what these dudes say on the matter but now I'm not so sure. My lingering concern is how to cleanly and effectively deal with the waste.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 06, 2019, 02:10:40 PM
Having absolutely no scientific background I can hardly argue either point but is it not likely the case that he has studied the data, made a conclusion- perhaps influenced to a greater or lesser degree in favour of his own tendency towards technology as our hope for a solution rather than a smashing of the machines and a return to the fields- and decided that this is the best course of action? I am torn between both approaches as the romantic part of my brain envisions a(n unrealistic?) bucolic future for society but the pragmatic part of my brain realises how miserable life would be without electricity and other modern conveniences. Doomsaying is very 'in' (whoever came up with the title of this thread really needs to cool the jets) but it isn't the most inspiring rallying cry. If there is a path to a better future for our planet that includes all the benefits of modern science and technology then it is likely to be a much more appealing call to arms.
I'm neither a Luddite nor a Rousseauist (return to a bucolic existence). I'm saying that Pinker uses the data to promote a politico-economic vision of the modern world which I'm very much opposed to. There's no reason to believe the baby of technology has to be thrown out with the bathwater of neo-liberalism. In fact, I'm quite convinced there's a genetic fallacy in claiming that we have that technology only "thanks to" modern capitalism, a genetic fallacy in the sense that because technological progress was made in parallel to the rise of modern capitalism therefore modern capitalism must be the reason for it. I think that in a wholly social democratic western world (a term I take from the American pragmatists rather than Bernie Sanders ;) ), we could have made better, more experientially enriching technological progress. Of course, there's no way of proving this, it's just a counter-factual to argue against the idea of "capitalism therefore technological progress". But Pinker is very much in the latter camp, as far as I can see, especially hammered home by his reasoning on poverty.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 06, 2019, 02:10:40 PMWhat's your take on nuclear power, out of interest? He is an advocate and George Monbiot outta a recent convert- a greener green you'd be pressed to find. I'd have been in the sceptic camp until reading what these dudes say on the matter but now I'm not so sure. My lingering concern is how to cleanly and effectively deal with the waste.
I know that a lot of very knowledgeable people are in favour of it, and presumably others who are against it, but I don't know enough about it one way or the other to say anything more than, "Safety first!"
I get you. I think there is merit to his point about wealthier societies developing an environmental conscience. The ability to even consider the question is somewhat of a luxury of the West, even if the impacts of global warming will be felt worldwide- probably most sharply by developing countries. The aim to pull the world out of poverty seems noble to me and he at least makes an interesting case for how that might actually be happening. Off course it's all relative, but if the majority of the world has clean running water, electricity, enough food, access to medical care etc then their actual monetary wealth is very much a secondary concern. As you say, though, perhaps there are other studies that disprove his own and show that world poverty is unchanged.
It also seems to me to be a reasonable case to make that wealthier countries are leading the technological charge. I'm not sure if arguing the correlation or cause/ effect of that is any more than splitting hairs. Surely the more pertinent and inspiring point is that whomever is leading the way is looking toward an environmentally healthier future.
Pinker focuses on a monetary value and not any kind of quality of life assessment as a measure of poverty, that's exactly the problem. What I'm criticizing is his not-so-tacit defence of a modern politico-economic system which preferentially favours a vanishingly small elite, whose primary concerns are economic rather than social, experiential, ecological, etc., etc.
I don't know who you mean when you talk about those leading the way looking toward an environmentally healthier future. Pinker seems to me to be saying, the system we've got is already going in the right direction, no need to change the fundamentals of the system, just nudge it around a bit as necessary. But neo-liberalism as a system of global resource management is an absolute curse on environmental policy change and the number one reason it is all taking so long and why the measures put forward (like the Irish government's recent show of pathetic vision) are so unradical; within the neo-liberal capitalism we've currently got (the one Pinker says is getting rid of global poverty, etc., etc.), economic concerns are top of the pile. Environmental concerns become pertinent only when they overtake economic concerns... when examined through the distorted lens of those for whom economic concerns are primary! As for concerns about genuine richness in quality of life... ha!
I think your first statement there is wrong, actually. He seems to be saying the exact opposite of what you are accusing him of saying, or else I am misunderstanding you or I have misread him. He refers to quality of life as being the real value above quantity of actual money earned.
Do you have other proposals than what he offers or other decent recommendations on who to read to get some other perspective? His assertion that capitalism creates an overall more unequal, but overall less impoverished society seems to make sense when compared to other tried and failed systems- notably communism and fascism. And anarchy is a nice wishy washy dream but is unrealistic unless everyone in the West decides they would rather turn the clock back a couple of hundred years, reduce their standard of living in every conceivable way and massively reduce their life spans while offering no viable route out of the shackles of extreme poverty for developing nations. What other alternative should we look to?
Which technological advancements were brought about under communist or fascist regimes? I know some medical advancements are said to have been made by the Nazis at the expenses of human rights, but I can't think of them off hand. I haven't heard of any that were made under communism.
That at least suggests (but I'm naturally open to correction) that democracy, which he strongly advocates, creates the right conditions for technology and science to flourish. We can all point to inequalities in western society or scandals and outrages (The global banking crises that saw very few heads roll being a recent and obvious one) but compared to any other tried system the standard of life, the freedoms it offers from free speech, freedom of movement, freedom to earn money and freedom to create, seems like the best option for the world to emulate.
What I meant by 'those leading the way' I was referring to those making advancements in science and technology.
In order to state that poverty is dropping, Pinker uses the World Bank's definition of "extreme poverty" (the source itself should have a critical mind buzzing!), based on a monetary value of "living on $1.90 or less a day". Supposedly there are less people than ever living on this amount per day, therefore poverty is dropping. There are endless critiques of this World Bank measure of poverty (here's just one brief write-up https://www.openpop.org/?p=1383 ), but that measure suits what Pinker wants to say, so that's the one he goes with.
There are plenty of other forms of government to look to, and you should be beyond thinking that modern politics falls into only three categories; democracy, communism, or fascism. For example, social democracy is very different to neo-liberal democracy which is quite different to laissez-faire capitalist democracy, and so on. What we've got is neo-liberalism, and it seems pretty clear that this is what Pinker is holding up as what we have to "thank" for all the "progress" he details, and presumably he thinks it is also the best path towards cleaning up the environment too.
And although it's not related to my point at all, of course there was plenty of technological and scientific innovation from communist states! They may not have made it first to the moon, but jesus, we're talking about nations who went to space!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Russian_innovation#Soviet_Union
Basically, "What we've got now is the best we can have" doesn't strike me as a mentality conducive to creative improvement in our management of the world's resources, and from what I can see, from what I've ever seen, people who debate that side of the argument always end up being a little too creative with the facts.
Oh yeah, the whole space race thing. Kind of forgot about that for a minute there :-[
You may well be right and he is full of hot air but it's at least refreshing for a non- scientist to read something more optimistic than is generally promoted regarding the environment. Maybe we are all fucked after all, so sticking our head in the sand and enjoying ourselves before we burn might be our best option.
All hail the robots!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1BdQcJ2ZYY
:laugh:
Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwUhJaQVi-M
Quote from: Rodge on July 23, 2019, 11:30:03 PM
Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwUhJaQVi-M
It might help if he gave a link to the graph his whole argument is based on
Quote from: Trev on July 24, 2019, 08:00:35 AM
Quote from: Rodge on July 23, 2019, 11:30:03 PM
Arctic Ice Refuses To Melt As Ordered
It might help if he gave a link to the graph his whole argument is based on
The graph does contain a source of sorts, in that it tells us that the data it supposedly uses came via MASIE. What's MASIE? https://nsidc.org/data/masie/about_masie
What he doesn't provide information on is just how the graph was generated from the data. An image search for the graph returns only climate change skeptic results. But who runs MASIE? The NSIDC (National Snow and Ice Data Center) do, they're the ones who have been collecting and providing all the data this graph is supposedly generated from. So then, a key question becomes; Do the people collecting and providing this data freely to the public believe in accelerated anomalous changes in arctic ice trends? Yes they do:
QuoteEarth is currently on track for a three-degree Celsius warming by 2100, according to the WMO. That, however, is if the government commitments pledged during the Paris climate agreement in 2015 are actually fulfilled. Already, this past decade has seen lingering heat-waves and record-breaking storms with just a one-degree warming since the middle of the nineteenth century.
These numbers, however, are just averages. Masked within are extremes. For instance, the Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the rest of the planet, disproportionately affecting its environment and people.
But how do we know this to be true? High quality, accessible data informs our understanding of a changing climate. Scientists require reliable data products to deliver statistical analyses, modeling, and climate predictions and forecasting to policymakers. Without the data, their insight carries no weight. So the WMO created the Catalogue for Climate Data through an internationally agreed evaluation process as a staple of trustworthy and recognized datasets.
Link: https://nsidc.org/news/newsroom/nsidc-data-sets-selected-guide-global-climate-change-assessment-0
And here's a graph straight from the NSIDC, using SII rather than MASIE (since the former has been collecting data since 1979) which it would be interesting to hear "Tony Heller"'s views on:
(https://forum.metalwarfare.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsidc.org%2Farcticseaicenews%2Ffiles%2F2019%2F07%2FFigure3.png&hash=68c9ac87fdf8d80a1a9365ab481af836a90c1b52)
So, who knows how the one graph he relies on was put together. The guy who made the video ain't telling and the people who made it possible for him to make the video in the first place clearly seem to be saying he's got it wrong. Who to believe? Who knows, but personally I wouldn't go with a guy who is making up science as he goes along, even if by chance (because that's all it could be) he turns out to be right.
Edit: If you want to really get into the nitty gritty that the video tries to bamboozle the viewer with, here's some material to take on his points relating to Iceland - https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/joc.1051 (see Figure 5 and related text in particular).
And here's a brief introduction to the complexity of the impact of the Atlantic multidecadal oscillation on climate change, which freely admits that this may either accelerate or decelerate (but not be the linear cause of) the climate change trend - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180918110838.htm
And yes, the scientists could have it all wrong. That's part of science. But I would say they are statistically less likely to have it all wrong than this bloke.
Yeah Tony Heller aka Steve Goddard is a spoofer and dissembler of the lowest order. Just keep those clicks coming.
Quote from: Scáthach on July 24, 2019, 04:24:46 PM
Yeah Tony Heller aka Steve Goddard is a spoofer and dissembler of the lowest order. Just keep those clicks coming.
Had never heard of him before, I don't really follow climate science precisely because it's so complex. But since source checking claims supposedly based on science is so easy to do these days, it should really become a spontaneous reflex in everyone. It took about the same amount of time as the length of that video to find data that casts all of its major points in serious doubt.
What a strange thing to be a dissembler about though. I can only imagine he must be even more head-wrecking in person than his way of speaking in that video suggests :-\
Edit: Ha, peak cynicism! https://tonyhellerakastevengoddard.com/who-is-tony-heller/
:laugh: that's bleedin hilarious. Though no doubt there's a few people out there that skimmed it and thought "I like his honesty and even some of his ideas".
On a more positive note, anyone see the story about the fungus that essentially eats complex hydrocarbons? I think it was recently discovered in Ecuador. The idea being that if it was introduced to landfill sites it would mop up the pollutants. Forgive the lack of links but I'm useless with this phone. It's called pestalotiopsis microspora.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 19, 2019, 12:13:27 PM
We are all fucked, but it's grand. Earth won't miss us, and neither will we.
Amen
There are definitely still lots of ways to Improve the general lot of the human race, but greed will see to that.
I could go on about it for pages and pages, but i think it is the basic idea that enough is never enough is what has done it.
I wonder if Jaz Coleman has much to say on it all?
This guy knows how fucked we are:
https://mobile.twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1152663611510263810?s=19
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 09, 2019, 04:09:06 PM
This guy knows how fucked we are:
https://mobile.twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1152663611510263810?s=19
Yeah it's that sort of shit that makes regular folk think that everybody with non mainstream ideas is an idiot.
I'm going to go out on a limb here myself though and say that it looks like there is some sort of geoengineering being experimented with on an almost daily basis. Why is it being done? I haven't a clue. I just know what I see when I look up and it isn't nothing.
I try to think critically about things, and the only thing I know for a fact is that I don't really know anything, so god knows what the real answer to the sky writing is, but saying it isn't there seems like madness to me.
That eejit in the video also seems like madness to me though, and shit like that clouds any reasonable discussion.
I'm probably going to suffer for what I've said here, but sure fuck it
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 09, 2019, 04:09:06 PM
This guy knows how fucked we are:
https://mobile.twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1152663611510263810?s=19
Jesus Wept!!! :-\
QuoteThey're spraying us with smart dust!
If only.
Greta Thunberg has only recently appeared on my radar and now she appears to be everywhere. I have mixed emotions around her. On one hand, listening to a precocious fifteen year old throwing a tantrum and pretending it's politics is cringey as fuck. On the other hand, despite her annoyingly hysterical approach she is managing to activate millions of her peers and essentially everything she is trying to do I'm in favour of so more power to her. She has tapped into something here and, being cynical, you could say she's exploiting a agenda for her own ends but if she is being listened to and taken seriously by the powers that be, even if they are just being shamed and embarrassed into listening to her, then perhaps she can be a force for greater good and that might be what we need right now.
She is keeping it in the news where these things are usually buried in quick time. For that alone, all credit to her as news seems to rely on the human interest story to get anywhere. The facts are no longer enough. The danger is the message becomes about Greta rather than her cause but I don't think we're there yet.
Yep, that's true. I'd also be of the persuasion that, regardless of the current climate crisis/ climate crisis zeitgeist, that anything that is done to help the environment is a good thing. Even if the climate was perfectly healthy and stable I'd still want to feel that the world governments are working to keep it that way, so it's a win win scenario. I also can't wait for her powerful, uplifting story of struggle to be picked up by Hollywood. The way to an Oscar these days appears to be to blubber uncontrollably with lots of snot running down your face and if the clip of her I heard on the radio earlier is anything to go by, she'll have that baby sewn up as well as saving the world :laugh:
https://twitter.com/c_3c_3/status/1176191494027452419?s=21
The 'climate crisis' is this era's Live Aid - more smoke, mirrors and bullshit.
Was laughing at Varadkar yesterday. Big blustery speech about not using oil that we've never found. Made himself out to be the perfect Trudeau type and people just lap it up.
Meanwhile people in Navan can't get a decent fucking train to work in Dublin when it's 20 miles away, the health service in shite, rent prices through the roof in a centralized Dublin that makes no sense at all. If they had any sort of plan, we would be upgrading our infrastructure massively which would relieve the huge need for people to sit in petrol powered cars for hours a day coming up from Navan, Cavan, Drogheda, Kildare etc in an attempt to actually earn a living and have SOME sort of standard of living with creches for their kids and decent schools rather than living in a one bed in Dublin.
But rather than do the hard work and actually create a sustainable plan we get fucking carbon taxes. So stick your stolen dreams up yer hole.
Quote from: polymer on September 24, 2019, 10:07:40 AM
The 'climate crisis' is this era's Live Aid - more smoke, mirrors and bullshit.
I'm interested in your opinion on this. The world's scientists appear to be in agreement that there is a crisis, there is evidence of various glaciers receding at alarming rates, in Siberia there is evidence of permafrost that has been stable for thousands of years is beginning to melt with potentially devastating effects on the climate, the data appears to show an increase in extreme weather systems across the globe (although that's maybe a temporary blip, only time will tell) etc. Do you think it's all a conspiracy and that everything is grand or that it's being exaggerated or what? What reading/ viewing links do you have? I'm interested in exploring this more.
I'm looking forward to seeing all these kids giving up their X-box, PlayStation, cinema trips, electric boards, fashion, transport to school, etc. in place of walking, reused clothes, playing with sticks/stones/petrol/etc. like we did as kids.
On live aid: https://www.spin.com/featured/live-aid-the-terrible-truth-ethiopia-bob-geldof-feature/
The point isn't that there isn't global warming. Of course we need to be environmentally conscious and do whatever we can for the environment. But what is clear is that there is an agenda being rammed down our throats at the moment and if we have learnt anything we should approach it with a very healthy scepticism. This Greta girl is a pawn in someone's game, of that there can be little doubt.
So we have a world in which there is unbelievable levels of poverty, malnutrition, famine etc. as well as the environmental question. What is needed is some level headed thinking and some real, viable, well thought out solutions to the issue and ranting and raving and gluing yourself to trains does nothing but piss off the majority of people and turn them off what is an important issue.
I've been listening to Bjorn Lomborg quite a bit lately on this. His stance is that Global Warming is definitely happening, but that there are realities that need to be taken into consideration in tackling it. He talks about raising people out of poverty, family planning etc as very important factors in the issue. We in the West have a great privilege in terms of even being able to think about these things in the first place. You go to Vietnam and you can't walk down the street for the amount of mopeds in cities like Saigon. People are trying to make ends meet and get ahead. They don't have time to even think about carbon footprints or anything even remotely simimlar. If we could essentially make these people richer, the results would tend towards less children, greater awareness of social and environmental issues etc etc. It's better to listen to the guy himself though.
And it all goes back to my last point..you upgrade the train line from Navan to Dublin, you would greatly impact the traffic on the N3, taking cars off the road, allowing people to move out of an already congested city. If that one change could have such an impact, imagine what would happen if we actually had some real planning instead of Leo and company clapping eachother on the back for meaningless acts such as yesterday's agreement to not explore for oil...imagine the infrastructure changes that finding oil could have financed in our country? The mind boggles. We would have solar panels on every house in the country. We could have high speed trains linking Donegal to fucking Cork. But no, the drama and the asperger's tears are what we have to react to always. It's Lourdes, the Pope's visit and moving statues all over again.
Bjorn Lomborg:
https://youtu.be/xcbemlPluAo
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201909/19/WS5d82c73ea310cf3e3556c445.html
I can't argue with that. I recently read Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker and he made very much the same argument. But I think that the positive aspect of the likes of Greta Thunberg, despite the obvious cringe-factor of her delivery and naivety, is that she is helping to bring about the notion of ecological awareness to her peers. To us oul lads, it's a bit embarrassing, but if a greener outlook is being sewn among the next generation coming up, it can only be a good thing. Ultimately though, the change has to happen from the top and I think that it is beginning to happen. There is more pressure being put on governments to respond to environmental concerns in general, even if they might take the occasional wrong turn (the switch from petrol to diesel) or the fact that even our own small country is a laggard when it wouldn't take much for us to lead the charge on renewable energy. The appetite for this stuff is growing. Electric cars are becoming more common, still early days there but it's growing, people questioning the use of plastics and packaging in supermarkets, looking at industrial scale cattle farming, technology pushing ever forward in its quest for cleaner energy across the board. Laying all of this at the feet of a 15 year old girl is, naturally, absurd. It has been bubbling slowly for years, but she is doing her part for her generation to get them active. As for the deadlines that are set in terms of reversing climate change, who knows what the truth is, but there is certainly hard evidence of global warming being a reality. Maybe it's being over hyped, maybe not. But a world that takes these matters seriously is better than a world that cynically shrugs it off so that big business can keep on doing whatever it likes without impunity, at least in my view.
That article on live aid was an interesting read and made me think of this :
https://www.discogs.com/Various-AntiGeldof-Compilation/release/1038926
More relevant than ever..
I'd agree on the majority of what you're saying there. There's an argument that the likes of Greta and Ocasio Cortez are actually doing more harm than good which needs to be factored in. The drama, the hysteria and the exaggeration just fucks people off to the point that they lose intetest and creates a kind of siege mentality that wouldn't exist otherwise.
Again, not saying Lomborg or indeed Pinker are 100%, I'm the furthest thing from a scientist, but I also value cool, steady and realistic approaches rather than some poor girl who has been put up to all sorts by people who should know better, throwing the hexxes on crowds and spitting adolescent venom.
Despite the interviewers obvious Republican leanings a video worth listening to:
https://youtu.be/5QyXduteiWE
One thing I've noticed is that the level of personal vitriol that has been levelled at this child online just goes to show what a fucking cesspit social media is these days.
Whatever your position on the subject at least she's out there protesting for what she believes in. Most people giving out about her won't change a single thing in their lives.
I had a look at those links, Pedro. I am certainly convinced that we need to find the solutions through technology and cutting edge science, and naturally measured and realistic debate should always be at the centre of things too, rather than an idyllic return to some imaginary, pre-Industrial Revolution utopia. Civilisation advances inexorably, so trying to get everyone to stop using mobile phones, driving cars, flying in planes or using electricity is nonsense. It's about having some faith in the scientists to find balance and compromise so that we can continue to enjoy the luxurious lives we have become accustomed to while reaping as little damage on the planet as possible in the process. The hype is irritating when you step back from it, especially as it polarises people and makes this issue ever more political. That said, the general shift in attitude towards greener living is a good thing.
I can't help but enjoy the tin foil hat responses that can sometimes emerge from these kinds of things.
Most interesting theory I have heard so far: the true intention of the "climate change" agenda is just to establish global governance over the acquisition and consumption of fossil fuels.
To control a nation's CO2 output is to control their fossil fuel usage/allotment which is essentially control their entire economy and its rate of growth. So whoever gets to set those limits/quota will get to choose winners and losers of economic competition.
The threat of climate catastrophe is just a simple ruse meant to galvanize support from the masses in order to put pressure on all democratic governments to submit to global fossil fuel governance.
Also, it would allow them to manage a gradual reduction in oil consumption under the pretense of environmentalism while hiding from the public that the true reason is that we've hit peak oil and/or that stocks of fuels are running out, and therefore, they can avoid the resulting panic / economic collapse that would probably cause.
That Lomborg interview is interesting indeed. I like these level headed and positive people who are interested more in practical solutions than ideological battles. It gives me hope for the future.
I know this might sound retarded but I actually don't care what happens the world when I'm dead.
It's probably better that we get wiped out anyhow.
That's not exactly the most inspiring line of thought, I reckon. I like the ingenuity of technology (despite generally being retarded around it!), I like the idea of smart people using their ingenuity to improve the world in various ways, I like the idea of humanity actually finding a way to flourish without destroying the planet, particularly now that I have a kid myself, but even apart from that. We are an ingenious species- the most sophisticated one we know of that exists in the universe- and it's inspiring to think of what humans might be capable of if we manage not to wipe ourselves out. Our life spans have more than doubled in the space of a couple of hundred years and they suspect that the first human to live till 200 has already been born. I'm fascinated by that. For all of the stupid problems we create as a species, we have the potential for greatness- art, music, literature, poetry, philosophy, psychology, mathematics, technology, astronomy, engineering etc etc etc... It seems a bit reductive to say that the world would be better off without us, and nothing short of a paradox. I don't find the notion of mass human extinction anywhere near as exciting as, say, being able to listen to new incredible music or reading a brilliant new book or hearing about some ground-breaking invention or cure that benefits some part of humanity.
What about new incredible music about mass human extinction? :laugh:
Yep, I agree, the pessimistic approach annoys me no end. There's too many people..yeah well here's a cliff do us all a favour.
I'm all for killing people in songs, not that big a fan of killing people in the real world :laugh:
This might sound stupid but i actually dont know much about climate change.
But does climate change not occur naturally?
I mean its happened plenty of other times right.
Or is it entirely our fault this time?
Either way it cant really be stopped can it?
Assuming it only wipes out humans, then I think I'm with you. If it kills everything else then it's a bit of a cunty move by us, no? This could be the only planet with life in the universe. It would be a shame if little more than laziness, greed and stupidity were to erase it all.
Quote from: blessed1 on September 24, 2019, 08:32:52 PM
This might sound stupid but i actually dont know much about climate change.
But does climate change not occur naturally?
I mean its happened plenty of other times right.
Or is it entirely our fault this time?
Either way it cant really be stopped can it?
As far as I understand it does happen naturally but human activity, namely the burning of fossil fuels which sends carbon into the atmosphere, is speeding up the process. When you consider the amount of cars, trains, planes, power plants to generate electricity and the use of gas for heating homes, and you combine that with the cutting down of rainforests and possibly even hedgerows, and you factor in the overgrazing of upland areas particularly in Britain and Ireland by sheep and deer which massively reduce our forests (the world average is around 30% of land being covered in forest as opposed to around 13% here!) and the fact that trees absorb carbon and recycle it back into the atmosphere as oxygen, our interference is believed to have a profound effect. The worry, and there is some evidence to back this, is that as the climate continues to heat up it will melt the permafrost above the arctic circle which is currently holding massive amounts of carbon that will end up back in the atmosphere further speeding up the process.
Quote from: Juggz on September 24, 2019, 08:41:31 PM
If it kills everything else then it's a bit of a cunty move by us, no?
Yes it is.
Like i said earlier i still dont really care though once it doesnt happen in my lifetime.
Selfish but true.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 24, 2019, 09:04:07 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on September 24, 2019, 08:32:52 PM
This might sound stupid but i actually dont know much about climate change.
But does climate change not occur naturally?
I mean its happened plenty of other times right.
Or is it entirely our fault this time?
Either way it cant really be stopped can it?
As far as I understand it does happen naturally but human activity, namely the burning of fossil fuels which sends carbon into the atmosphere, is speeding up the process. When you consider the amount of cars, trains, planes, power plants to generate electricity and the use of gas for heating homes, and you combine that with the cutting down of rainforests and possibly even hedgerows, and you factor in the overgrazing of upland areas particularly in Britain and Ireland by sheep and deer which massively reduce our forests (the world average is around 30% of land being covered in forest as opposed to around 13% here!) and the fact that trees absorb carbon and recycle it back into the atmosphere as oxygen, our interference is believed to have a profound effect. The worry, and there is some evidence to back this, is that as the climate continues to heat up it will melt the permafrost above the arctic circle which is currently holding massive amounts of carbon that will end up back in the atmosphere further speeding up the process.
Short, informative and to the point
thanks haha
Factor in industrial scale farming. There are 1.5 billion cattle in the world and their digestion process (ultimately their belching) releases phenomenal amounts of methane into the atmosphere which isn't helping things. If you tie that back in to the mass deforestation needed to create new farmland and the cycle feeds off itself. There is a counterargument against veganism/vegetarianism in that if we all stop eating meat it will actually have a more detrimental effect as we'll need to create even bigger farms to feed ourselves. I don't know where the truth lies but there's a good reason to believe that either way, we are having a massive negative impact on the environment through farming.
An initial response might be to reduce the amount of people so we won't need to produce as much food but there's a line of thought that says that rather than reducing the number of humans through draconian measures like the one child system, by raising third world countries out of poverty, the human population will stabilize. Statistically, as societies become more wealthy, people have fewer kids.
Have a look at this ted talk from Hans Rosling in terms of population..
https://youtu.be/2LyzBoHo5EI
This video is excellent too:
https://youtu.be/hVimVzgtD6w
The outlook is so unbelievably positive that it again leads back to questions concerning the hysteria and doomsday prophecy stuff that is being bandied about in relation to overpopulation and it's relation to global warming. It also gives great hope that we are on an upward trajectory in so many ways, and, for me, leads nicely into many.of the arguments the likes of Pinker and Lomborg are talking about i.e. the world is going the right way and we can sort out this climate issue if we keep our heads about us.
Realistic, thought out, fact based concepts that are wary of the knee jerk 'live aid-esque' reactions that mean well but are ultimately doing more harm than good, or at the very least, are a complete waste of time, resources and money. The Ocasio Cortez hysteria that the world is over in 12 years time and we should all follow.her Green Plan which is just a farce of a document is a perfect example of how we could go down a rabbit hole in terms of climate.
What becomes glaringly obvious from the talk, as stated in the description, is that we are all carrying around myths that are simply not true. Ideas like 'the population of the world is out of control/at breaking point' is absolute nonsense.
If we look at Ireland as a really great example, actually one of the best examples. If we hadn't had the famine, the population would have hit 9 million. It stood at 8.5 million prior to the famine. I read an article recently that said if we hadn't had the famine and utterly devestating emigration/poverty etc, we would now have a proper population of 40 million, our population having been 60% of England's at the time. On top of that we are the country with greatest space per
head of population in the whole of Europe(can't remember the metric itself), our country being incredibly underpopulated in relation to what it could, might and probably should be.
Anyway, the video well worth a watch to quell any of that nazi eugenics lebensraum talk that seems to have become so popular amongst, probably unwitting, climate doomsayers.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 24, 2019, 08:14:41 AM
Greta Thunberg has only recently appeared on my radar and now she appears to be everywhere. I have mixed emotions around her. On one hand, listening to a precocious fifteen year old throwing a tantrum and pretending it's politics is cringey as fuck. On the other hand, despite her annoyingly hysterical approach she is managing to activate millions of her peers and essentially everything she is trying to do I'm in favour of so more power to her. She has tapped into something here and, being cynical, you could say she's exploiting a agenda for her own ends but if she is being listened to and taken seriously by the powers that be, even if they are just being shamed and embarrassed into listening to her, then perhaps she can be a force for greater good and that might be what we need right now.
Decent enough article which addresses some of these points
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/why-is-greta-thunberg-so-triggering-for-certain-men-1.4002264?mode=amp
I'm undecided as well. On a gut level, there's something definitely immensely irritating about her. On the other hand, as the above article touches upon, when you have the likes of Donald Trump posting snide remarks about a 16 year old who has a better command of the English language that he has, then...well, enough said
If only it was as simple as Jennifer is making it out to be in that article and im fairness she says so at the end. There are plenty of women who would have their qualms about Greta's accusatory fimgerpointing as opposed to the child herself. Youthful exuberance and stomping up and down and making a big fuss is great, but if it was as simple as 'let's stop burning fossil fuels tomorrow' then the issue would be solved in a day and the danger now is that politicians and policy makers start panicking and making badly thought out choices to try and appease the mob. It's good she is bringing attention to it all, but you'd want to be living in a fucking cave over the last 20 years not to know that the climate ia an issue. I just see too much polarisation in these lecturing, 'I know better than you, you thick redneck fuck' movements and one would wonder if they are doing more damage than good.
They have used her control of the English language as a stick to beat her detractors with(certainly many of them, myself included, probably deserve it) but it also hints at the privileged bubble she has grown up in, in one of the richest countries in the world, that she even has such a command of a second language. She sailed across the ocean, she brought attention to things, brilliant, we can give her a nobel prize. But that doesn't change the fact that there are a billion people in China a massive proportion of whom are struggling to dig themselves out of poverty, another god knows how many million in Latin America and Africa and India who want to have a warm house and a roof over their heads, drive their kids to school and get to work and earn a living. Are we telling them that they need to go back to their huts and turn off the lights while we put all that on pause and try and figure out a proper, viable, economic alternative for their energy situation? What Jennifer fails to realise in her article is the underlying, veiled, elitism that pervades her article. Her dig about vegans and that so many people are angry about it etc. Yes there are assholes but there are also other people who simply don't agree and others who can't afford and then others who just don't give a flying fuck about veganism. So, again, a journalist covers themselves in glory lecturing to us, the great unwashed, who are just too thick to understand these big ole concepts. Sorry massah, I jus gonna put an x heuh cuz I ain't be knowing no letters and big things like dat...go way and fuck.
I think it's great that she is activating her peers around something meaningful, regardless of my/your/her stance on the matter, rather than obsessing about the shape of their eyebrows or whatever happens to be the current trend. Maybe if you are being generous you could extend that point to say that she deserves her place at the UN meeting as a representative of her generation (It's a bit of a stretch, though). It's inevitable that any public figure will become a target for ridicule, and that's the nature of being a public persona. You don't have to like it but it won't ever change, so if she intends on continuing down this path then she'll have to get used to it.
Deffo, I actually admire her in many ways. I'd just hesitate with the style and presentation. Great to see some passion on something meaningful though we're so saturated with meaningless emotive language these days that it kight explain a lot of the negative reaction. If something longer burning, progressive and realistic comes out of it I'd be all for it.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on September 25, 2019, 02:53:37 PM
I think it's great that she is activating her peers around something meaningful, regardless of my/your/her stance on the matter, rather than obsessing about the shape of their eyebrows or whatever happens to be the current trend. Maybe if you are being generous you could extend that point to say that she deserves her place at the UN meeting as a representative of her generation (It's a bit of a stretch, though). It's inevitable that any public figure will become a target for ridicule, and that's the nature of beyond a public persona. You don't have to like it but it won't ever change, so if she intends on continuing down this path then she'll have to get used to it.
This, precisely. Anyone who raises awareness in the younger generation who're seemingly more concerned with Instagram 'likes' than what's actually going on around them deserves attention and a bit of leeway, despite how irritating she may be personally, and how managed/directed her appearances and message is. It's a problem that's not going away, and systematic lipservice while ignoring commitments to change is only going to continue, unless that younger generation are active in fighting it as the grow and take on responsibilities it future.
Good on her, I say. Her 'viral' presence is probably the only way of getting through to people in this social media and PR-obsessed age.
Quote from: Ollkiller on September 24, 2019, 02:19:01 PM
One thing I've noticed is that the level of personal vitriol that has been levelled at this child online just goes to show what a fucking cesspit social media is these days.
Whatever your position on the subject at least she's out there protesting for what she believes in. Most people giving out about her won't change a single thing in their lives.
Agreed, the abuse is way OTT, but the way it is these days. Where were all Thunberg's defenders when the headlines were all about the smirking kid in the MAGA hat last year? Oh yeah, they were all demanding he get the shit kicked out of him, made to suffer for the rest of his life, etc. I guess 16 years old wasn't too young an age to abuse somebody then.
Very pertinent comparison to make.
Quote from: Ollkiller on September 24, 2019, 02:19:01 PMAgreed, the abuse is way OTT, but the way it is these days. Where were all Thunberg's defenders when the headlines were all about the smirking kid in the MAGA hat last year? Oh yeah, they were all demanding he get the shit kicked out of him, made to suffer for the rest of his life, etc. I guess 16 years old wasn't too young an age to abuse somebody then.
Even though he was acting the maggot and deserved to be pulled on it, I don't agree with the amount of abuse he got online, it's something that should have been dealt with by his family but look, he apologised and it was largely done with soon after. I don't think there's a comparison to be made between the two of them other than their ages. They feel mostly like an easy two sides of a coin to pick because the whole issue now is now American focused. One of them put themselves in the limelight to raise awareness of something that needs to be considered nowadays, the other pulled a shitty schoolboy stunt that spiralled in a wrong place/wrong time way.
Fair dues to Greta either way. When I was sixteen I was knocking in flagons of Devil's Bit behind an old ruins in the town park, listening to Draconian Times on a tape deck. Good to have someone keeping the issue public because it exposes more holes in the denial camp. Regardless of how bad the issue is, it does tie in to the state of the world in general and having more people consider their actions is always a good thing. Definitely in agreement with earlier comments that there are vital things that need to be done to improve this aside from a bit of first-world recycling, but we've been over this earlier in the thread.
The comparison is in the contrasting media and public reactions to the two of them from the opposing poles of the political spectrum, not in the content of their respective actions/inactions.
No I get that, kind of went off track on it, sorry. From the public and media perspective it is the inverse reaction to each for two sides, absolutely, but one was a reaction to a political protest and the other environmental - you would hope it wouldn't be so polictically polarised for the latter but this is just the way it is.
I think that's the whole issue here. It's not that her heart isn't in the right place. It's the self assuredness of all these yeasayers that have attached themselves to her, the messianic fervour and the earnestness and sanctimoniousness of people who are pushing her at all levels, from politicians to the man/woman on the street/office that turns me off.
The above ideas about 'at least she's trying to do something' I'd definitely go along with and fair dues, but I don't believe, as is backed up by much of the science, that we are on the verge of utter annihilation. We have an issue, it's serious, something needs to be done about it, but I'm not throwing myself in front of a train, chastising or flagellating myself or choosing not to have children to save the environment, or any of that utter bullshit, to go with the flow. The 'you need to repent', vibe of her speeches are just not going to work on me, I went to school in Ireland with priests and nuns lurking about the place, mass, all that drivel, so I've heard enough of that, thank you very much.
So, I'm definitely not saying no to her, and the nasty remarks and criticism are going too far. Our entire dialogue is now coloured, flavoured, some might even say hijacked by American social and political enmities, and as a result her prescence on the world stage has taken on a very different meaning to that of the girl who protested outside her parliament, utterly convinced that she needed to do so. It's not her fault, but it is the reality.
All that said, despite the fact that the Metoo movement felt very much like a witch hunt at times, and my having a somewhat similar, turn the page, turn off the TV, throw my phone away reaction to it, I did find myself, subsequently, reviewing things about male-female relations, questioning things about possible behaviours I had displayed over the years, whatever. My point being that the way the message was delivered, I found to be really unsavoury(not saying ALL metoo stuff, there were some definite real cases raised), but once I got over that initial response that I have to having ideas forced on me by the media, the mob etc. it did give me pause for thought. I'm sure I'm not alone in this and in that way, once Greta fades away to yesterday's news, the ripples of her actions will probably be felt and not by only the usual yeasayers, but out in the wider consciousness.
I feel I need to burn down a small woodland after that..
I don't really get why people see her as some kind of radical force or as being "brainwashed" or whatever. We've been talking about CFCs and the Amazon and everything that she's now literally just repeating for decades, since I was a kid. Whatever about the doomsday stuff, which I don't really go in for either, partly because I'm contentedly resigned to knowing that the species won't survive forever no matter what, we are making the planet filthier and uglier every day, and the more people push to reverse that trend the better. 'Cos while we are here, now and in the future, clean air, clean water, wild spaces, these all make living a richer experience.
Kids younger than her have ended up catapulted into "stardom" for far less worthy reasons and no one batted an eyelid. So she's becoming a star for repeating her frustration at being told X is true but the people in control continue to act as if it's false, while at the same time (in the main) parroting their agreement that X is true. I mean, whether X is true or not (and it mostly is), she's absolutely damn right to want to bang all those fat hypocritical policy-maker and corporation heads together.
Yep all valid points and certainly things need shaking up. All that said, there's a definite agenda behind her. When she talks about ending 'all economic growth' you'd wonder where a 16 yr old with aspergers and a history of depression amongst other issues has come up with her ideas. And quite frankly, they're not her ideas. They're her parents' ideas and the those of their social circle and they are anti-capitalist, anti-market etc etc etc..we all know the rant.
So I see good stuff there and other slightly odd/disturbing stuff and it's all being fed to me through a lense of global media where you're never quite sure what the hell you're looking at in the first place anyway.
More power to her, let's hope shit starts to change, I'd better get back to church and ask for forgiveness for all that wanking and spraying cans of Lynx to hide the stale smell..double the Our Fathers I'm told.
Do you even realise how much carbon all your dead soldiers send into the atmosphere? This is a global crisis, people. Could everybody PLEASE stop wanking!
Quote from: Pedrito on September 26, 2019, 09:47:53 PM
you'd wonder where a 16 yr old with aspergers and a history of depression amongst other issues has come up with her ideas.
Well people with aspergers have a tendency to focus incessantly on singular subject, so she just seems obsessed with climate change. When you get that single minded about something it's not that hard to see where she gets her ideas, there's an endless supply of information out there on it
Guinness farts are responsible for the ozone hole
I like the video on population growth but I reckon it's unwise to think that life expectancy will remain the same, it's more likely we will find ways to extend our lives further to our 90s/100s (while improving life quality in our 60s/70s/80s). That adds another 2-4 billion to the world depending on advancements.
We are levelling rainforests at an industrial rate - It's not all fossil fuels. Being cynical this will just result in an increased carbon tax slapped on us plebs. We already have in Ireland one in three struggling people facing 'high' or 'extreme' bill stress over crippling fuel costs, while a staggering 25% did not run heaters at winter (One Big Switch poll). Meanwhile, we'll have the rich buying carbon credits, feeling good about it and never changing their behaviour.
Quote
"The margins of error are so large that it can be difficult to draw strong conclusions," Bamber said, pointing to a 2008 study he co-wrote that estimated East Antarctica's ice loss at 4 billion tons, with an error margin of 61 billion tons.
The truth is we don't know what will happen by 2050, the margin of error on these studies are so large so when you try predict out to 30+ years time there's no point. They can't currently model clouds with any degree of certainty and H2O according to the IPCC themselves is the most important greenhouse gas. Look at all the computer models..the variances are high because the role of feedbacks are uncertain.
Very interesting solution to desertification...
https://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI
A mini-ice age would be more disastrous than a bit more warming from what I can see. More atmospheric CO allows plants to grow using less water by reducing evapotranspiration - water evaporating after it is released from plants' pores. Precipitation and soil moisture may rise from this, and droughts may become less frequent. We've the Sahara greening and Tundra will give way in the likes of Russia etc.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth
I don't think there is anyone who doubts Co2 is a greenhouse gas and significantly increasing the concentrations of it in the atmosphere have implications for climate. Climate changes will likely have numerous negative consequences but there are actually some benefits to Co2 so overall I don't see the doomsday/collapse of civilisation scenario.
There are some stuff being thought up - Harvard came up with a calcite based aerosol that was proposed to be a solution for both global warming and ozone depletion in 2016, something a lot of Asian countries, esp China would be interested in for air quality issues. Reforestation and cleaner tech in agri/manufacturing sectors needs to be part of the solution but even still I don't see how to curb it without changing how the world does business...and these quotes below are from 2017 ->
QuoteEven with the most optimistic scenario for greenhouse gas emissions reductions, that share will rise to about 48 per cent by the end of the century. If so-called business as usual emissions continue, that share would climb to 74 per cent by then, the paper found.
Avoiding dangerous levels of climate change is still just about possible, but will require unprecedented effort and coordination from governments, businesses, citizens and scientists in the next three years, a group of prominent experts has warned.
Dunno about the greening effect but the Ted Talk was interesting. Aren't cattle considered to be problematic for the environment, though? Curious that he decided not to address that side of the debate.
Yeah, I know in Australia they are going mad about using cattle as they are ruining the top soil...in the end the meat quality is so bad they sell it cheap to Africa/Asia markets. Then you have the Oz farmers complaining about droughts....yet have increased the amounts of cattle on their land in the last few years!! There was a big move at one point to try push people towards Kangaroo meat but it wasn't really successful.
Australia is a good example actually. Gippsland in Victoria is famed for its beef (in Oz) but I'm not sure about the rest of the continent. The heart of the place is bushland which, ironically, is pretty arid despite consisting mainly of cattle ranches. Does that put the lie to your man's theory or is it rather a case of mismanagement?
My brother lives in Adelaide and we travelled up to a place called the Flinders Ranges, along the way, multiple farms with vast amounts of land either side of the road. Brother pointed out the cattle, I was shocked at the sheer amount of them, most looked quite underweight and this was their Winter when the land should be in better condition. Just by seeing it, you'd say this is a case of complete mismanagement fueled by greed, esp considering these farmers will be jumping up and down for subsidies and complaining to media about droughts/cattle dying off in a few weeks time. If that ted talk theory had huge promise, surely someone else would have acted upon it by now.
A SEAI Report showed that Ireland generates 0.1% of global CO2 emissions. 40% of global CO2 emissions come from coal, and China burns 50% of the world's coal, increasing by 3% per year. That extra coal burnt by China is 0.6%. Even if we in Ireland went back to stone age, it doesn't stop a thing while the world promotes and creates excessive production for consumerism..Cheap mass production comes at a cost. We can't seem to develop a sense of proportion.
But solutions need to be thought up - I've seen touted that wooden architecture is the future of building which would allow us to draw carbon from the air and store it. But the following has a lot of promise ->
https://www.powermag.com/pioneering-zero-emission-natural-gas-power-cycle-achieves-first-fire
https://www.ervia.ie/news/paving-the-way-for-a-deca/
The link above is something to keep an eye on. The idea is the use of super-critical CO2 as a working fluid to drive the power turbine. Super-critical CO2 has big advantages over water as a working fluid.
These climate change protests are a laugh. Lobbying the government to do something so they don't have to. At the end of the day consumers drive what is made and how it is packaged. The more planting thing never really gets a push. Plant more trees, they eat CO2 and look nice. Carbon tax is a load of crap too. It will apparently be ringfenced for environmental causes. I'm betting most of these causes will amount to massive publicity campaigns with Leo and friends looking great.
Good to see the hippies out doing yoga in front of Westminster in aid of global warming. Pushing out all those vegan farts will help counteract the harm being done by greenhouse gases.
Yeah, and then loads of the protesters were snapped getting lunch in McDonalds, that's real eco-friendly!
Loads like more than 50% or more like less than 1%? All protests attract people who don't actually get what the protest is about at all; human stupidity knows no bounds of cause!
Couldn't tell ya BSC, but yeah, only two things are infinite.... I'm not anti protest, but then I'm not pro-bongoloid either.
And still no one has thanked Thomas Cook for leading the way in reducing carbon emissions.
As predicted, government budget increased the carbon tax by 6euro per tonne (30% increase). That's expected to occur every budget until 2030 getting us up to 80 euro per tonne. By 2030 that will be about an extra 155 euro for a 900 litre of Kerosene and nearly €140 extra on 11kwh Nat Gas. Petrol/Diesel will be an extra 20cent per litre in 10 years time just from a carbon tax alone.
Meanwhile Phil Hogan signs off the mercosur deal which will completely level rainforests at an industrial rate to produce non traceable low quality beef that will be shipped over to the EU from South America. How very green this all is...
You have to laugh at a tiny country, with fucking hardly anyone living there, and the coldest miserable cunting weather ever, getting het up about global warming. A few more sunny days wouldn't go amiss in Ireland. But of course we get a beautiful new shiny carbon tax to give more money to keep the oul show on the road.
I don't go along with the "we're only a tiny, insignificant country" line. We all have to take responsibility for our own actions. The carbon hike was lower than I expected to be honest. As said though, introducing a carbon tax while also agreeing to the Mercosur deal is bizarre.
Politicians playing at smoke and mirrors..who wudda thunk it?
I live in Fingal constituency and recently got a James Reilly leaflet through the door. It was meant to be about the governments great green policies, which were all waffle, the biggest move was that Reilly has bought an electric car, and there's a lovely picture of him with his new car! I kid you not.
Then we have Leo in New York recently saying how great it is that we will no longer issue oil exploration licences. Great! Except no commercial oil has ever been found here. Gas on the other hand...
Quote from: The Butcher on October 08, 2019, 04:18:04 PM
As predicted, government budget increased the carbon tax by 6euro per tonne (30% increase). That's expected to occur every budget until 2030 getting us up to 80 euro per tonne. By 2030 that will be about an extra 155 euro for a 900 litre of Kerosene and nearly €140 extra on 11kwh Nat Gas. Petrol/Diesel will be an extra 20cent per litre in 10 years time just from a carbon tax alone.
Meanwhile Phil Hogan signs off the mercosur deal which will completely level rainforests at an industrial rate to produce non traceable low quality beef that will be shipped over to the EU from South America. How very green this all is...
The carbon tax is a crock of shit just another excuse for Government to take more of your money. That is essentially what all these protesters are out doing begging the Government to tax them even more I wonder how they will feel 10 years from now when they have bills to pay and a family to support. Meanwhile the main contributes to this whole problem China, India etc. will just keep doing what they do and nothing will change.
https://youtu.be/bSAgHvETNSg
Interesting take on things.
The Guardian just published a dossier on pollution from fossil fuel companies today:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/series/the-polluters
Some very interesting stuff there Chris, and as I was saying earlier in the thread, there's an article talking about how the blame has been shifted onto joe soap who is almost powerless in all of this. In one way I admire the power of people's convictions to go out and protest for what they believe in. On the other, I think people like myself are literally confused by the amount of conflicting info out there. There is supposed consensus and yet I read daily about nobel prize winning scientists who say it's nothing near as bad as it's made out to be. So my head is spinning with it tbh.
There's the likes of the following petition signed by over 30k American scientists rejecting global warming. http://www.petitionproject.org/
Again, I've no idea where to place this or what to think about it...are they all gun toting types who only believe in capitalism? 30,000 of them? I'm not sure how to process the info.
Now maybe they're talking about something very different than what the extinction people are talking about. Maybe there's a whole language around it all that I'm simply not fluent in in any way.
Then there's the media whipping up a fenzy about the likes of Storm Lorenzo the other week, as much as saying it was all global warmings fault and yet I'm watching a video with a top meteorologist later that day saying storms and weather events have nothing to do with global warming even though it does exist.
And I'm definitely not alone in all of this.
Either way, this chap thought he'd get on a plane today and turn even more people off the issue than probably should be. I just don't know if this type of thing is going to work in the modern world. Are we desensitized? Is it a post religious, cynicism to anything or anybody that is idealistic and wants a better world. I'm completely conflicted knowing that if that lad was on a plane with me I'd love to see him fucked down the stairs for being such a do-gooder twat. But maybe I'm in the wrong there? I probably am, even though I'm a fairly reasonable person 75% of the time.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1010/1082321-aerlingus-protest/
Snopes gave that petition the once over: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/30000-scientists-reject-climate-change/
But, whoever did sign it, clearly either didn't read it properly or has a huge bad faith problem:
QuoteThe proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.
Even if anthropic climate change is a hoax, the two claims in bold are absolute nonsense, and the claim about the advance of science and technology only holds within a limited view of what direction science and technology should be advancing in.
Nice one..I've heard that petition quoted quite a few times.
I end up using the same terms from time to time, but I do try to avoid talking about climate change. There are plenty more immediate reasons to change global production and consumption habits, all of which can be summed up by the basic idea of it being better to live in a cleaner, less toxic environment (air, water, soil). I don't believe anthropic climate change is a hoax, but even if it was, I think moving away from pollutants and excessive production/consumerism is a worthy goal, certainly more worthy than any alternative being proposed (I don't think any alternatives are being proposed, just carrying on as usual).
I'm sure right up at the top there's a battle going on between old school nefarious billionaires and new "green" but still ultimately nefarious billionaires, but if the latter can provide cleaner air, water, and more green areas for me to live in and raise a family in, then that's my preference.
I think that final paragraph sums it up nicely. If it's a choice between a cleaner, healthier environment with vibrant ecosystems to explore, or even just to know they are out there doing well, I'll choose that over environmental destruction. I suppose it's about finding the right balance so that we all don't have to revert to an old way of existence, however noble or ideal the fantasy might appear to be, and the most persuasive argument I've come across is to allow the scientists and engineers the free rein to find the most workable solutions. And l think that they are. The work is being done. Naturally when anything becomes a political football progress grinds almost to a halt so maybe the solution is to separate church, environmental issues and state!
Fair play BSC, you have articulated well the sensible non - shouty opinion that I (and probably a lot of other people) share.
Yep I'd second that. What's clear is that our media is broken and it's setting us up to see conflict everywhere. Social media is worse. There's got to be a middle ground for reason in all of this.
Andrew Neil always gets to the core of the issue. Before anyone says he's grilling her too hard, he does this to everyone.
https://youtu.be/H3kJwQBZOkM
I saw that on telly the other night. In fairness, could Extinction Rebellion have chosen a person more clueless and inarticulate on what they are supposed to be protesting for to do the interview? It was embarrassing. I actually felt he took pity on her and went easy because she hadn't a breeze.
Yep, poor girl, I think she made her neckplace in pottery class at the special needs school.
Yeah, very poor choice. Fairly easy comebacks available to all the points he raised, and probably he was expecting her to have them in mind and all. Notably, it's only because of the ceaseless doomsday talk of eco groups since the 70s that we're paying attention at all today, and still (arguably) not as much as we should.
The flipside to that truth is that a none of the doomsday scenarios being highlighted since the 70s haven't come to pass. Which, rather than necessarily meaning there is no validity to the general arguments or worries, gives hope that they will find some solution you the current zeitgei... CRISIS! :P
Zeitcrisis, good name for a shit uber-technical click-click widdly-widdly-wee death metal band.
Criminal what?
In fact, Zeitkrisis would be German for Time Crisis, and they're the guys we need to sort out the polluters! Time Crisis - Extinction Rebellion, in arcades soon!
The BBC doing their damndest to make this woman look like an arsehole. I think the line of questioning is disgusting, no matter what way you feel about Extinction Rebellion, for some reason they take a stand against anyone with non-mainstream opinikns, doing the same to the likes of Jordan Peterson in the past..disgraceful really.
The scientist hit the nail on the head for me. If the oil.companies had to be carbon free, they could easily do it. That says it all. Maybe a bit of protesting isn't such a bad thing after all. She does still come across as deranged at the end and would have been better off letting the scientist say his piece and won the 'debate'.
https://youtu.be/BhVD5jWbaXs
Hadn't seen that interview. Weird one. The subtle as a brick character assassination at the start was bullshit but then the hysterical reaction she gave to the questions was hard to take seriously too, so both women came off as a bit ludicrous (oh shit, did I accidentally misogynize??). The actual scientist himself seemed reasonable and level-headed and most of the scientists I've read or listened to on this seem confident that we can find solutions to these problems. Those are the people we need to be listening to as they have realistic achievable answers. The radical lefties always end up looking ludicrous when they start going on about bringing down capitalism. I personally have no interest in living in a communist state.
"I don't think we have time to overthrow capitalism first and solve climate change later."
Dead right we don't. As Zizek famously and very correctly said, "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism."
The economic system we've imposed on the world, nominally called capitalism, is absolutely fucking retarded in light of finite resources. Alternatives to it are not at all limited to "communism".
@mclove I think once we listen to the lefties and righties talk out their arses for a while, the people who are in the middle tend to take notice, examine things with a cooler head and make a decision. It has caught my attention if I'm.honest and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Changes need to be viable though..nobody wants to go backwards or live in East Germany again.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 14, 2019, 12:55:05 PM
"I don't think we have time to overthrow capitalism first and solve climate change later."
Dead right we don't. As Zizek famously and very correctly said, "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism."
The economic system we've imposed on the world, nominally called capitalism, is absolutely fucking retarded in light of finite resources. Alternatives to it are not at all limited to "communism".
Indeed capitalism is hard on the environment, or has been historically. The name says it all, really. It is by no means perfect but it could be improved with a shift in the focus of big business to renewable energy, nuclear energy (still controversial), a move from oil to electric transport (slowly happening), and maybe a change in our approach to farming although I'm not sure which is the right way to go there as there appear to be reasonable arguments for and against a turn toward vegetarianism in terms of environmental impact. Also, as an aside, I'm reading How the Mind Works by Steven Pinker and he thinks there is a strong connection between a highly carnivorous based diet and the evolution of our brains when taken in conjunction with the development of the visual part of our brains, development in dexterity of our hands, living in communities etc. Dunno if that should be taken into consideration or not when thinking about the future of farming.
I think a stronger (but still not definitive) case can be made for the advent of cooking (whether that be meat or otherwise) in terms of the rapid evolution of the human brain. Cooking was far more ubiquitous and frequent than meat eating. There's a Brazilian neuroanatomist who's written on it quite a bit, if I remember her name I'll throw you a video.
Interesting.
In a nutshell, cooking (and also fermenting) vastly increases calorific availability of food items, meaning you get more calories out of less food eaten and also less time spent eating. We spend remarkably little time eating compared to other animals given our calorific needs. Now what's her name!
There we go, found in the agenda. She gave a talk at the institute here last year:
https://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herculano_houzel_what_is_so_special_about_the_human_brain
Makes sense but it doesn't eliminate the fact that humans eat, and historically have eaten, a predominantly meat based diet, supplemented by vegetables. Her theory might go hand in hand with Pinker's?
Because my missus is vegetarian, I decided to go that way for a while, throwing in some meat here and there. I've listened to a lot of stuff on it all and having gone back to consuming a lot of meat and protein now, I definitely won't be becoming a vegetarian or vegan anytime soon.
I train a lot, 6 days a week. Martial arts, weights, hill running. I found the veggy type diet was amazimg in almost a detox way but after those initial effects level off after a couple of months, I found I would lack energy and strength. Yesterday I ate a whole venison chorizo after the gym...talk about a massive boost. I still eat loads of veg and fruit, but also tonnes of eggs and good meat 2 or 3 times a week, aswell as a lot of fish. I know people who are vegetarian all their lives, and though they mightn't think so, I find them to be really low energy type people. Again, whatever floats your boat, I honestly don't care, but I'm not sure we'll be getting rid of meat too soon as an environmental solution.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on October 14, 2019, 02:13:25 PM
Makes sense but it doesn't eliminate the fact that humans eat, and historically have eaten, a predominantly meat based diet, supplemented by vegetables. Her theory might go hand in hand with Pinker's?
It depends on which stage of human development we're talking about. Meat came before cooking, obviously. Becoming
omnivores definitely gave our ancestors an advantage to survive one stage of evolution, and their descendents discovered fire and cooking more or less around the time that our neocortex exploded out of all proportion with any other mammalian species. I'm not going to say you're wrong with "predominantly", but the really essential aspect that set our ancestors and us apart was the omnivorous one, which is a part of what allowed us to travel around so much and survive in so many different climates. The debate over whether the balance tipped more towards meat or non-meat is very much still raging (among proper scientists, obviously excluding whatever shite PETA, but equally militant anti-PETA types, etc., come out with).
Our ancestors were cooking meat as well as veg. We have always been omnivorous and I think that finding a balance is the way to go in terms of personal health. The question is which is more sustainable for the environment. I know there is talk of the west moving toward consuming insects like they do in Asia but that's an extreme change for cultural reasons and certainly not something l could see becoming popular in the space of a generation. If we really are in a global crisis it's not a viable solution.
Say the world did go vegetarian. What would happen to all the cows? Would they be massively culled or simply released into the wild? You still have to factor in the carbon factor of a billion cows roaming around the wild! Do we kill them off and eat them to get rid of them? Not an entirely serious question but it does raise a question about rewilding domesticated animals. If we need to use the farmland to grow crops where do all the cows, sheep and pigs go? Fire them up the Wicklow Mountains, sure. Be grand!
You can't "rewild" a breed which was never wild. If you released huge numbers of domesticated animals into the wild, it would cause havoc, especially in areas where there were natural predators, whose numbers would explode with the temporary feast available. I guess we'd eat them until they were all gone!
You'd have to cull them. Either way it's never going to happen. I think the fuel companies and big industry is what we need to target.
Quote from: Pedrito on October 14, 2019, 03:02:32 PM
You'd have to cull them. Either way it's never going to happen.
When we imagine it to be next-to-impossible for our diets to drastically shift, I think we invariably forget about the enormous subsidization of meat and dairy production:
https://medium.com/@laletur/should-governments-subsidy-the-meat-and-dairy-industries-6ce59e68d26
Without those subsidies, say if that cost was shifted to the consumer, the food landscape would change very rapidly. Not saying it will happen, but those state subsidies are the obvious target for those lobbying for less meat production and consumption, since they reveal that neither are cost effective (another case of "using" capitalism to help solve the climate crisis).
Always thought that the answer lies with consumers really. If nobody was buying bottles of Coke because they were plastic you'd better believe there would be an alternative within a few months.
People aren't just going to stop driving cars or flying from one country to another, though. I think in terms of plastics and so on, yeah, that's very much attainable on a societal level- supply and demand... As Pedro said above, though, the main issue is fossil fuels and that's a change that needs to happen at a level far above our heads. That said, I think the change is coming. It feels like the mood has shifted toward taking these matters more seriously and the fact that Greta Thunberg has been given such a platform indicates that, whether you agree with her being made into a spokesperson or not (I'm not sure that I do), the landscape has shifted.
"every generation throws a hero up the pop charts" - Paul Simon.
Better Greta Thunberg than Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus, and probably similar levels of exploitation going on, though no one ever seemed too concerned before!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 14, 2019, 12:55:05 PM
"I don't think we have time to overthrow capitalism first and solve climate change later."
Dead right we don't. As Zizek famously and very correctly said, "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism."
The economic system we've imposed on the world, nominally called capitalism, is absolutely fucking retarded in light of finite resources. Alternatives to it are not at all limited to "communism".
That Zizek quote reminds me of Nietzsche's
"man would rather will nothingness than not will."
Maybe nothingness in this instance could be vacuous consumerism..a complete reversal of the ascetic ideal, and yet in another way just as empty. Zen consumerism as such :laugh:
https://youtu.be/3WbGVAo1hyQ
Very interesting discussion here with Dr. Peter Ridd about his research on the Great Barrier Reef, its current state of health, his opinion being that it's not actually fucked. He goes into the details of what coral bleaching actually means, likening it to other common and natural regenerative occurrences like forest fires and sun burnt grass. He says that it is a normal occurrence during summers of intense heat and that the coral actually either revives itself (ie that it's not actually dead despite looking so) or that the dead parts will be replaced, all within the space of a year. He also discusses his case against his former employers, James Cook University, which is somewhat worrying if his claims about peer review in the field of science are true. I'd never heard mention of the reproducibility crisis. I'm interested in hearing some of you science boffins on what you think of this storys as no doubt you'll be more clued in than I am.
Edit. He also claims that a rise in one or two degrees in sea temperature would be beneficial for the reef as coral grows more abundantly in warmer waters. Controversial!
Never heard of him before, but the researchers who rebutted his original article (both printed in same Marine Biology journal) were kind/smart enough to pay for it to be open access, so you can read the rebuttal here, for free - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0025326X18301425?via%3Dihub - but if you want the original you'll have to get it through Sci-Hub, for example.
My PhD subject is researcher bias, so the reproducibility crisis is a large part of how that manifests. Science as an institution is an absolute mess, far more of a mess than I was expecting when I moved into it from philosophy of science, already thinking it was a mess but wanting to get some first hand experience. I've been working in labs now for over four years and, yeah, most researchers' driving force is their career and the prestige of recognition (i.e. over and above a desire for knowledge for its own sake), which is something that also drives bias and, indirectly, the reproducibility crisis too.
It's a double-edged sword though. You can't call on the possibility that some studies in ecology showing X may not be reproducible as evidence that Y is therefore the case. Because any data pointing towards Y must also be made subject to the same rigour you're demanding. From a cursory glance at the two papers (I'll listen to the interview now), it would seem that Ridd is calling bias on others while very much sweeping his own under the carpet. Pinker is another expert at this! :D
Ah, so we still are all fucked. Phew.
Things are hotting up..
https://youtu.be/9P1UXYS6Bmg
Black, white, brown, yellow, males and females all coming together in solidarity.
Many pointed out how stupid a choice it was to block public transport, since increased use of public transport is precisely one of the solutions to reducing emissions!
Utter spas.
Lots of unrest now around the world. We all know the middle east is fucked but lots of protests and rioting in Chile, Venezuela, Russia, Hong Kong and now Spain and Catalonia. Not to mention the large number of protests in UK these days. This all feels like it's warming up everywhere like it did prior to WW1.
That pair of Ruperts on top of the tube, spas. The tube is electric ffs.
Monty Halls has a new tv show on that I caught last night and it's all about the Great Barrier Reef and its related environs. Strangely, for a habitat that is allegedly 90% dead it looks incredibly healthy. It is considered to be one of the, if not the, most diverse ecosystem on the planet. Oddly he never even mentioned that it was in any sort of imminent danger.
Not new, 2012.
Oops. I thought it was a new show.
Really hoping for some more protests on top of trains and the ensuing carnage.
Is it just me or is there fuck all talk of climate change in the media at the moment? Is it just a Summer thing? We get hot weather, it breaks records and then we go back to freezing our balls off? Absolutely baltic where I am at the moment.
It's just you. Climatologists are set to declare the last ten years the hottest decade on record.
Nah, just kidding, it's not just you, it's "just" that there's so much unprecedented shit going on at the moment that the competition for front page is crazy. There was an article on climate urgency signed by in and around 11,000 scientists* published on 5th November.
*I say in and around since the signatory list was sabotaged by climate skeptics who managed to get some obviously false names on there in order to then try and discredit it after the fact.
Ah thank god for that then, I was starting to get worried :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiYuq6Ac3a0
https://youtu.be/lUs6iUpa4U4
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 03, 2020, 04:02:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiYuq6Ac3a0
So, looks like war then.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on June 19, 2019, 11:33:08 AM
Experts appear to have put a number on the climate deadline. Twelve years to halt the destruction of the environment or there is no turning back. We might already beyond the point of no return. On top of that we have the advancement in AI which could be a double edged sword- rendering the human workforce obsolete could be viewed from several angles I'm sure. There was a report on the radio a few years back that described how the Earth's human population appears to cyclically reduce to a ludicrously low number like 300,000 every 30,000 years, so perhaps we are heading back into that cycle of decline. Is it all hysterical nonsense or are we fucked? It feels good to recycle and do our bit to cut down on plastic waste, carbon emissions etc but is it a waste of time? It seems obvious to me that countries setting targets for 2035 or 2050 are burying their head in the sand, or just refusing to take the matter seriously, but maybe I've just been brainwashed. What are your thoughts? Hype or Armageddon?
Cut your losses, kill yourself. You're going die anyhow so jump before you're pushed.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 03, 2020, 04:02:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiYuq6Ac3a0
I prefer the Mega Drive version with the vocals replaced by the screams made by the characters when they get killed.
Greenpeace have been saying it for decades, so to have the likes of Great Thunerg and Extinction Rebellion coming along and stating the obvious is a load of bollocks, but they're good for the kiddies I suppose.
We know we have been using too much fossil fuels, we know we have been creating too much waste and causing too much pollution for it to be at a level that could last for long.
The litany of all that we're doing wrong goes on and on and what we are doing to try and make things better is too little too late as we are in a comfortable way of doing things that's nice and profitable and they don't want to upset the apple cart.
Bags For Life and Battery Powered Vehicles are as much use as balls on a bishop.
This may sound harsh, but considering what we've known for decades people should have stopped procreating as it would have just been sending generations into a terrible future.
Were Donald Duck'd!.
The answer lies in the Western countries along with the more progressive regions investing in technology. The only way we beat climate change etc is through scientific breakthroughs and backing our governments to invest heavily into solving the issue.
I've said it for a long time that Trump is totally right about China on an economic level, but we could extend that environmentally also. The world's biggest polluter which pretends to sign up to all sorts of protocols and agreements but is taking the piss whe it comes to any implementation. They simply don't care and, like it or not, we need a strong US to push back on them. Are the United States free from blame..no, but they are far ahead of the worst polluters in the world.
So, agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on. The solution lies in technology and investment..people aren't going to go back to the one cow on a farm, going to the well for water approach so it's the only way the mess gets solved.
Quote from: Pedrito on February 24, 2020, 01:54:16 PM
The answer lies in the Western countries along with the more progressive regions investing in technology. The only way we beat climate change etc is through scientific breakthroughs and backing our governments to invest heavily into solving the issue.
I agree with this line of thinking. I also think it handily rubbishes those "But I bet scientists get planes to climate conventions, what about that, huh?" arguments.
I'll be the first to admit that I'm a naive layman in terms of the real science behind climate change, but as far as I can tell the damage has been done too much for all of us to revert back to some mystical agrarian lifestyle. Whilst science and industry polluted our planet, I'm adamant they also hold the keys to our salvation.
The world mightn't ever look as green again, but we have to continue pushing the envelope with technological advancements. I love themes and tropes pertaining to us becoming out own gods through scientific enquiry. The world is indeed fucked, so we may as well go about building and conquering new ones.
Reversing trends and lifestyles on a macroscopic level is preposterous, and a sure fire way to disenfranchise Joe Soap. The solutions lie in improving and advancing existing progress. And somehow keeping in check and mediating the small percentage of lunatic industries who do most of the polluting, of course.
Chinese Co2 emissions have dropped by over 25% with most of the country on lockdown...so just about 75% Co2 required just to have most of the country idling, not making much, people in their homes using heating/electricity etc...so how do you have a meaningful reduction in Co2? 🤔
https://time.com/5786634/coronavirus-carbon-emissions-china/
I just want society to collapse already so I can go live in the woods and not get bothered by the government.
Why not just go and live in the woods?
Earth Hour tonight between 8.30 and 9.30. Going to turn everything off and save the world. You're welcome. Seriously though, anyone else joining in the gesture?
On a separate but related note, I wonder what sort of positive side effects the Corona Virus is having on the world's environment. I saw a headline about the hole in the ozone layer healing itself and there have been reports about the air quality in China improving and the water in the canals in Venice becoming cleaner. Might be something to keep in mind as our brains get a bit melty during lockdown.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 28, 2020, 08:07:54 PM
On a separate but related note, I wonder what sort of positive side effects the Corona Virus is having on the world's environment. I saw a headline about the hole in the ozone layer healing itself and there have been reports about the air quality in China improving and the water in the canals in Venice becoming cleaner. Might be something to keep in mind as our brains get a bit melty during lockdown.
Good call
So y'all missed the news of the EPA lifting all water and air pollution regulations for all businesses during the crisis? USA! USA!
I was waiting for all of the weird shit to start going on while our backs are turned. There will be a lot more of this
Fuck.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 28, 2020, 08:40:39 PM
So y'all missed the news of the EPA lifting all water and air pollution regulations for all businesses during the crisis? USA! USA!
You serious?
Where d'you see this?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/27/trump-pollution-laws-epa-allows-companies-pollute-without-penalty-during-coronavirus
Unbelievable...!!!
He really is one ridiculous excuse for a human being.
Michael Moore funded renewable energy policy exposé, calls to ban it from several sectors.
https://youtu.be/Zk11vI-7czE
It has lots of critics, and probably plenty of points to be debunked, but the overall message - that what needs changing more than anything else isn't a shift to green energy but rather a drastic reduction in consumption - is spot on. Anyway, very grim viewing, be warned.
Zero mention of Nuclear Power in that though. Germany tried a partial phase out in favour of renewable sources and it ended up having the opposite of the desired effect.
You have a point about the consumption issue, and considering it's produced by Moore, who I find annoying and dishonest at the best of times, it's not 'left-heavy' in fairness.
I find his stuff very watchable but I've grown to dislike him a fair bit. Will give this a whirl in the next day or two.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 29, 2020, 07:39:54 PM
Zero mention of Nuclear Power in that though. Germany tried a partial phase out in favour of renewable sources and it ended up having the opposite of the desired effect.
The green movement is generally anti-nuclear, so it's not part of what he's exposing here; the green smoke screen, so to speak.
I found it to be an excellent documentary in terms of going after the Golden Calves that we are all supposed to accept as givens and solutions, the leaders who seem to be given constant passes and we blindly accept as having the solutions to all of this. There's a certain aura around the likes of Elon Musk, for example, whereby he cannot seem to do anything wrong. Steve Jobs was viewed similarly. I'm sure they have their critics, but the vibe is that these people know more than the rest of us..cult like, demi God stuff. That was extended out to Al Gore and a swathe of other celebrity environmentalists and I think that can only be a good thing. I've been sceptical about a lot of what's being sold to us as necessary for the environment for a long time. The electric car seems like a great idea until you start looking at the shit show that lies behind manufacturing them and actually running them off of the grid.
Where the documentary failed was in it's tone of absolute dejection by the end. Nothing seems to be working, and I find that hard to believe also. The guy who directed is a huge proponent of environmental issues etc, so he's not trying to sabotage the whole thing, but his tone by the end of the documentary is completely defeatist and there's a certain nihilistic feeling about the whole thing.
Well worth a watch, it would be great if they could do a follow up documentary, something showing solutions instead of the Human beings are the problem, we need to start aborting on massive scales type feeling I got at the end. Then again, maybe I'm just reiterating the very delusion that the documentary was attacking, and it's time to face reality. A sobering thought.
I haven't read this guy Yuval Noah Harari's books yet, but if this interview is anything to go by, they won't disappoint. Following on from the ideas from above documentary on climate change, I found it interesting where here he breaks down in very simplistic terms what is the crux of the matter when it comes to where we are going and what might be wrong with our current system.
It's all well and good giving out about X and Y and calling for revolution and attacking those with power as is Russell Brand's approach here, but again, it is just a far too a simplistic, almost childish, way to see the world. Brand talks about Ghandi and how he wanted India to live in some sort of agrarian utopia, which never worked and Harari is completely correct in saying that you can't expect people to just suddenly start living out of their back gardens when the technology already exists, the future is already here, and these romantic ideas of turning back the clock to some sort of Ideal humanity are a fool's errand. How can we expect people who not to covet and desire a better future for their kids, and not to be taken in by dreams such as capitalism etc.
Just to underline, I'm not taking sides necesarily here, but obviously Harari's final point of a vision of where we're going to be in 2050 is what is required. Some plan that will take in the environment, population growth, pandemics etc etc etc. An answer really to the 'Are we all fucked' question. Maybe the Coronavirus approach, whereby a semblance of cooperation was reached might point the way. Who knows? I certainly don't, but this idea that some revolution or uprising or the young people will fix it, which Michael Moore was spouting in defence of his the documentary, is essentially idealistic hyperbole that offers no real solution.
Worth a watch anyway..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta4U8G03q98
This lack of a future vision is what I was talking about on FB yesterday Peter. It's true, no one is presenting one; neither the left nor the right political types, okay, but there aren't even any serious visionary thinkers whose voices are being heard on it. We are really lacking such figures at present.
When we look at what food production efficiency has given us, i.e. millions of free hands to manufacture and consume unnecessary goods and services, the temptation to say that we'd almost be better off breaking the machines and getting back to working the earth is high. It could notably do wonders for mental health, the chronic scourge of the west. Otherwise, if we do hold on to that efficiency, then we need to find a better use for all those idle hands, a use which isn't primarily about consumption with a view to "stimulating" a global growth economy, but some other goal entirely. The problem is finding something people agree upon. One mid-term goal could be to convert millions of jobs into environment cleaners; christ knows there's enough to be fucking done!
Anyway, the elephant in the room (although whispers are gathering volume) is a resource based global economy. That's the heart of any vision of tomorrow equipped to exclude the worst excesses of today all the while embracing its technological know-how and potential.
What do you mean by resource based global economy?
A quick google reveals the Venus Project and the video is very interesting> https://www.thevenusproject.com/resource-based-economy/
I'm not sure if it's what Chris is talking about though.
What I understand from the video is that it is basically town planning on a massive global scale but on the basis of available resources. You build cities that can survive on the resources around them. Things are so finely tuned by technicians that energy, for example, is not wasted, the best ways of powering things are found for example and there is a sharing of that resource with the next city etc. Every city and town around the world follows the same map so that each one can stand on it's own 2 feet. The idea is that if we all had the same high standard of living, which is completely possible, according to what is available to us on the planet, there would be no need for money or war or fighting for resources. Technology does all the hard work and humans go back to school, exercise, do what we're all doing at the moment in lockdown.
I'm completely open to correction on that summary though :-X
It is and it isn't. It gives an idea of it, although much more sober and pragmatic versions than the Venus project are conceivable. Long term sustainable management of real resources as the foundation of the global economy, as opposed to creation of capital wealth.
The resource based economy is a wonderful ideal, but I can't see the large private corporations who generate unimaginable amounts of imaginary credits globally every year agreeing to it too easily. It is a much better idea than what we have at the moment though.
Sounds too good to ever be implemented.
You're surely right there.
I wonder what it would take for something like that to happen though? Surely anyone looking at the basic explanation would think "Sounds good", is it simply a matter of exposing enough people to the idea? It's hard to argue against the principle. Maybe if it was introduced in stages, like the whole world agrees to manage one resource on that basis, using some sort of cryptocurrency to manage it to see how it works out and maybe it knocks on from there or something. Obviously it wouldn't be that simple it'd have to start somewhere
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 05, 2020, 06:14:32 PM
Sounds too good to ever be implemented.
But that's the thing, we're going to have to invariably go with something that sounds too good to be true because the alternatives aren't really there. Technology is the key alright and the whole world is going to have to run together on this one.
I agree that technology is likely to provide the answer, but it'll probably come from way out in leftfield.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 05, 2020, 05:37:23 PM
A quick google reveals the Venus Project and the video is very interesting> https://www.thevenusproject.com/resource-based-economy/
His other videos there regarding his thoughts on depression are interesting food for thought. A lot of us probably have thoughts like that of our own around that sort of thing though but nevertheless worth a listen
Quote from: astfgyl on May 05, 2020, 06:23:18 PM
You're surely right there.
I wonder what it would take for something like that to happen though? Surely anyone looking at the basic explanation would think "Sounds good", is it simply a matter of exposing enough people to the idea? It's hard to argue against the principle. Maybe if it was introduced in stages, like the whole world agrees to manage one resource on that basis, using some sort of cryptocurrency to manage it to see how it works out and maybe it knocks on from there or something. Obviously it wouldn't be that simple it'd have to start somewhere
currency has already always been a cryptocurrency; the nature of all currency is just symbols on top of computation, if it's coins on exchange rates, paper notes on labour offered or completed, agreements that things mean something on the basis we agree to believe other things mean things.
that's why they used gold or state-backed scrips with exciting squiggles in fine ink etc, then they removed the gold standard, then they removed money tied to cultures and nations, so you got the euro in all its futility, then they brought in debit cards, then they bring in the state as sole provider of essential purchase tokens, then only smartphones with state registered sim cards to receive/use state credits, and of course the next stage will be integration of smart capability into the human body itself, total integration of mental and physical, total integration of thought and experience, virtual and real.
at some point they'll use all that as a soft reveal for us having always been trapped in a blended reality for unknown years already, whatever time is.
time is money!
the scary thing is within 15 years none of the young people of that future will think anything of it other than why we spent 12 decades 'watching from afar' on some screen, when the screen is you, is everything around you already.
it's all a gradual push to the abandonment of the material completely, to become completely computational.
Terry Pratchett's Making Money is a decent satire of the idea of money. It doesn't go quite as far as your description though. But yes there is nothing to truly back up money in its' current state and that is a system just waiting to collapse. That is the argument for the resource based economy which as pointed out makes too much sense to ever take off although I'd enjoy my thoughts on that being proved wrong. The upheaval involved is difficult to imagine though.
Universal basic income could be a first step towards a resource based economy. It's basically a way of setting the baseline as "we have enough resources to feed and house everyone, so let's do that." There'd be a long way still to go after that, but.
Good point. I was reading about a town in the U.S. which experimented with UBI in the latter part of 2019 and the results were fascinating and really put forward a great case for the idea. If you haven't seen it yourself, I'll dig out the link for you. But yeah, something like that would be a great move towards the ideal.
Edit: Stockton, CA was the town. Bit of a write up here https://www.businessinsider.com/stockton-basic-income-trial-results-success-2019-10?r=US&IR=T but of course there are many more to be found.
The universal basic income thing isn't the worst idea ever if, I suppose, there was some sort of way to stop people from just lying around eating pizzas all day and wanking. Historically speaking or even in terms of evolution, I think we are living in constantly changing circumstances and the idea of 'the worker' I would imagine is quite a new idea.
Before that you had big shots and slaves and variations of that. So this idea that every person should have a career that fills their existence up and makes them happy and even defines them as a person is quite a new concept really. (I'm riffing a bit here and open to corrections). So zooming out and looking at society from a distance, you could easily see how basic income and automation could be a really freeing and revolutionary idea. I think the problem arrives when you zoom back in and look at the amount of donkeys out there that probably need somewhere to go everyday so as to stop them throwing their shite at eachother in the streets.
That said, I think we are probably moving in that direction. If we can hold off on nuking eachother and somehow curb the environmental issue, it's not unreasonable to think we could be living like that in maybe 100 or 200 years. I doubt I'll be seeing it in my lifetime.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 06, 2020, 04:39:36 PM
The universal basic income thing isn't the worst idea ever if, I suppose, there was some sort of way to stop people from just lying around eating pizzas all day and wanking. Historically speaking or even in terms of evolution, I think we are living in constantly changing circumstances and the idea of 'the worker' I would imagine is quite a new idea.
Before that you had big shots and slaves and variations of that. So this idea that every person should have a career that fills their existence up and makes them happy and even defines them as a person is quite a new concept really. (I'm riffing a bit here and open to corrections). So zooming out and looking at society from a distance, you could easily see how basic income and automation could be a really freeing and revolutionary idea. I think the problem arrives when you zoom back in and look at the amount of donkeys out there that probably need somewhere to go everyday so as to stop them throwing their shite at eachother in the streets.
That said, I think we are probably moving in that direction. If we can hold off on nuking eachother and somehow curb the environmental issue, it's not unreasonable to think we could be living like that in maybe 100 or 200 years. I doubt I'll be seeing it in my lifetime.
UBI is kinda funny- it ties in with questions of population reduction, the purpose of human existence, human lifespan...and up to and including our generation, work was economically unnecessary, but socially necessary to a certain point. The lower downs were bought out by and large by the time of the victorian slum clearances, and in ireland the urban clearances of the 1910-1970s, but of course if you had anything like an IQ you'd get trapped into slavery of various kinds, just to keep you from causing trouble. Your leaving cert was just to entrap you, your postgrad was to make you too sure of yourself and in some countries beholden to state debt, your job was a job for people who were bought out decades ago, but you want to be a 'professional' so they give you slavework, but it's 'middle class' slave work.
So middle class replacement is afoot for the last 15 years or so, and with AI and automation and 3D printing as well as all the matter replication, gene manipulation tech they've been using since the late 90s, it won't be UBI as universal basic income, it'll be a small cohort of 'necessary' humans competing for universal basic incarnation- we'll be ghosts turning up in 'life' once an aeon. If that sounds familiar, it should because that's where we were before say the past 600 years we can actually verify. So we live in a time where our social problems are sci-fi problems.
I don't understand most of that. What is your overall point? Is it good that people will be freed from this so called slavery? I mean, that's a utopian idea but I'm not sure how it will work in reality, considering we are, whether we like it or not, wired to work (most of us, anyway).
I think having a sense of purpose and usefulness in society is a simple human need. Reverting to an agrarian culture, or some bucolic existence where we become iron mongers, craftsmen, small scale farmers, artists, musicians, philosophers etc is a wonderful notion, but completely unrealistic.
Technology is here and it's not going away. I think it's not all bad either (this conversation is a case in point), but I do think it has its sinister sides too. I have no idea what the future holds but dystopia seems as unlikely to me as romantic pastoral reversion. Things will probably plod on, jobs will gradually change, our generation will become the dinosaurs our grandparents became and our kids will adapt to whatever the future society looks like.
If my pyramid ends up in the middle of a roundabout for hovercrafts it'll at least give me something to give out about while my mummified remains slowly turn to dust.
You'll have a nice soundtrack anyway.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on May 06, 2020, 10:27:29 PM
I don't understand most of that. What is your overall point? Is it good that people will be freed from this so called slavery? I mean, that's a utopian idea but I'm not sure how it will work in reality, considering we are, whether we like it or not, wired to work (most of us, anyway).
I think having a sense of purpose and usefulness in society is a simple human need. Reverting to an agrarian culture, or some bucolic existence where we become iron mongers, craftsmen, small scale farmers, artists, musicians, philosophers etc is a wonderful notion, but completely unrealistic.
Technology is here and it's not going away. I think it's not all bad either (this conversation is a case in point), but I do think it has its sinister sides too. I have no idea what the future holds but dystopia seems as unlikely to me as romantic pastoral reversion. Things will probably plod on, jobs will gradually change, our generation will become the dinosaurs our grandparents became and our kids will adapt to whatever the future society looks like.
If my pyramid ends up in the middle of a roundabout for hovercrafts it'll at least give me something to give out about while my mummified remains slowly turn to dust.
you've more or less summed it up there. I'm not saying I like/want any of this to happen, but the rate of change going forward from now will make the changes from the 30s to the 90s look miniscule, I mean from 00 to now was somehow a stalled little mini-epoch, the same everything, just more finesse/pointless complexity. From say 4 months ago onwards you'll be in the middle of constant high speed evolution, dephysicalisation, posthumanism, changes to human brain structure and biochemistry.. it's gonna be different from when they babyboomers hung around for 7 decades, buying the latest 1000 euro smartphone, wearing 'young' clothes etc... The tragedy is we won't get the chance to hang around enjoying the 'fruits' of progress like the previous 2 generations. We won't live as long as they did, nor will most of us want to.
we're the new version of the cohort that protested industrial weaving technology, ill-loom-ination etc
so there is no biological contagion, but there is a really stunningly powerful agent of reality-change.
so, basically I only joined out of moral duty to the handful of people who are genuinely afraid of something which isn't biologically real, but by which measure is absolutely terrifying precisely because it's everything/anything.
there's an analogue to all this 80 years ago with the telecommunications boom of the mid 20th century. If you think how quaint all the Paris intellectuals look now in those black and white photos, but they were the bleeding edge at the time.
in the blink of an eye, we're now quaint but with no money, assets, social power or political influence, those of you with kids will be unable to relate to them, families will split apart along lines of those who are digital natives, versus those of us with any connection to the 20th century.
we'll all be begging for death/ready for death in the next 10-15 years max, UNLIKE the prior maybe 3 generations where lifespan increased and desire for life was maintained long after those people should have died. We're the hinge generation, but as much as we are now obsolete, if you have kids they will latch onto the new trajectory and like the generations before us will expand in line with history. They'll get a century lifespan, we won't and won't want it.
The dole in Ireland used to be used as a type of base Universal Income in the same way it's used in that Stockton piece. Here in Spain the system still exists to quite a degree, whereby you might get enough from the dole to actually allow you to work part time or even have a job in a bar or have your small piece of land or whatever. The problem was when the beancounters came in and started making sure if you were on the dole you basically shouldn't have a job. Council housing and council estates didn't have the stigma attached to them that they do now.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 07, 2020, 07:03:14 AM
The dole in Ireland used to be used as a type of base Universal Income in the same way it's used in that Stockton piece. Here in Spain the system still exists to quite a degree, whereby you might get enough from the dole to actually allow you to work part time or even have a job in a bar or have your small piece of land or whatever. The problem was when the beancounters came in and started making sure if you were on the dole you basically shouldn't have a job. Council housing and council estates didn't have the stigma attached to them that they do now.
the whole housing thing's another great psyop. they know what buttons to push, what to deliberately run badly to cause mental stress and feelings of hopelessness.
as to why- maybe we're in hell or limbo, there's no economic reason for most of the nonsense that goes on such as bad planning, high rents, empty houses, ghost estates, all the rest.
same with medical care, once you realise it's all a bizarre charade, it becomes easier to disengage. they just just spent 2 months showing us all nothing we thought was important actually exists, so when the 'get ireland back to work' stuff starts coming out in the media, maybe people will start to question things a bit more.
the tv show the good place is fun in this regard.
You're not wrong about the housing thing. It's definitely a rigged game and doesn't need to be anywhere near as complicated as it is in a country of 4 million people. Deliberately run badly is a good way to see it.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 29, 2020, 05:24:04 PM
Michael Moore funded renewable energy policy exposé, calls to ban it from several sectors.
https://youtu.be/Zk11vI-7czE
It has lots of critics, and probably plenty of points to be debunked, but the overall message - that what needs changing more than anything else isn't a shift to green energy but rather a drastic reduction in consumption - is spot on. Anyway, very grim viewing, be warned.
Will watch this when I get a chance today. I'm not sure if it was this site or MI but you had a good statement re: "battle going on between old school nefarious billionaires vs new "green" but still ultimately nefarious billionaires". So this film highlights that?
https://wedocs.unep.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.11822/30797/EGR2019.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
So we've probably all seen the 1.5C global temperature limit goal. Global emissions would need to fall by some 7.6% every year this decade – nearly 2,800MtCO2 in 2020 – in order to limit warming to less than 1.5C above pre-industrial temperatures.
The amount of countries in various lockdowns, some spanning well over 12 weeks or more at this stage and China still not fully up and running, the coronavirus pandemic is expected to drive carbon dioxide emissions down 6% this year, the head of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) said on Wednesday, in what would be the biggest yearly drop since World War Two.
Imagine having to do this for 6 months of the year to get emissions down to achieve the 1.5C limit. It's impossible?
Ok watched that film. Well worth the watch. The population growth control is a hard sell for some...esp the people who believe in our current economic landscape of forever growth which is starting to show signs of a huge disconnect between the few and the many. I'd argue those signs started 30 odd years ago but a different topic required for that debate. I just don't see any solution to the population question though. The biomass aspect was the best part of the documentary ( time for forests to recover, loss of habitat, damage to water systems etc).
One or two niggly things about the film. Near the start that array of solar panels had 8% efficiency..I wonder when that array was built...2006/2007 or so I reckon? Early adopters always get screwed in these scenarios. The solar panels today usually give a range of 15-20% efficiency due to improvements in solar cells tech...which does give way to their argument slightly that we'd need to replace a lot of old solar/wind infrastructure already in place but this tech is in the early stages and if we go by moores law we should get to a point where it's not every 10 years replacement but 20/30/40 etc.
Not a big fan of Wind but solar/storage I still think shows the most promise. So with the energy output of solar nowadays we can dispel the myth shown in the film that you don't get a payback on energy gained from solar ->
(https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Screen-Shot-2013-03-14-at-2.54.23-PM.png)
Interesting analysis on electric cars/heat pumps regarding net emissions reductions ->
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-0488-7
I think overall my view is still the same - renewables reduce fossil fuels usage, but they have not, will not and can not eliminate fossil fuels. Only nuclear energy can completely remove fossil fuel energy from the picture - but the risk involved (only a question of when, not if, this waste will contaminate us) and rewatching Chernobyl again recently puts the fear into me that this isn't really an option for the world. And there's this ->
https://qz.com/1348969/europes-heatwave-is-forcing-nuclear-power-plants-to-shut-down/
There's this as well to complete construction around 2025 ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
We need to give renewable/storage tech the time to emerge in the next decade and see where it leads us but I don't think there is any silver bullets...which people seem to assume when it comes to green energy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/27/migration-crisis-destroy-eu-collapse-schengen
"By 2050, the population of Africa is predicted to have doubled to 2.5 billion. Continued inaction will turn the hundreds of thousands we are seeing now into millions seeking a better life in Europe." Do we continue the same route and witness this mass migration over the next few decades or do we move towards something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative and try drive the poorest towards a more Western way of living and get their populations to a stable level...increase their standards of living but at a cost of a huge increase in consumption? Or do we continue to decrease ours? Is there a balance somewhere? At what point do you say a place is full? How do we begin to square these circles?
Quote from: The Butcher on May 07, 2020, 01:17:42 PM
Ok watched that film. Well worth the watch. The population growth control is a hard sell for some...esp the people who believe in our current economic landscape of forever growth which is starting to show signs of a huge disconnect between the few and the many. I'd argue those signs started 30 odd years ago but a different topic required for that debate. I just don't see any solution to the population question though. The biomass aspect was the best part of the documentary ( time for forests to recover, loss of habitat, damage to water systems etc).
One or two niggly things about the film. Near the start that array of solar panels had 8% efficiency..I wonder when that array was built...2006/2007 or so I reckon? Early adopters always get screwed in these scenarios. The solar panels today usually give a range of 15-20% efficiency due to improvements in solar cells tech...which does give way to their argument slightly that we'd need to replace a lot of old solar/wind infrastructure already in place but this tech is in the early stages and if we go by moores law we should get to a point where it's not every 10 years replacement but 20/30/40 etc.
Not a big fan of Wind but solar/storage I still think shows the most promise. So with the energy output of solar nowadays we can dispel the myth shown in the film that you don't get a payback on energy gained from solar ->
(https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Screen-Shot-2013-03-14-at-2.54.23-PM.png)
Interesting analysis on electric cars/heat pumps regarding net emissions reductions ->
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41893-020-0488-7
I think overall my view is still the same - renewables reduce fossil fuels usage, but they have not, will not and can not eliminate fossil fuels. Only nuclear energy can completely remove fossil fuel energy from the picture - but the risk involved (only a question of when, not if, this waste will contaminate us) and rewatching Chernobyl again recently puts the fear into me that this isn't really an option for the world. And there's this ->
https://qz.com/1348969/europes-heatwave-is-forcing-nuclear-power-plants-to-shut-down/
There's this as well to complete construction around 2025 ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
We need to give renewable/storage tech the time to emerge in the next decade and see where it leads us but I don't think there is any silver bullets...which people seem to assume when it comes to green energy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/27/migration-crisis-destroy-eu-collapse-schengen
"By 2050, the population of Africa is predicted to have doubled to 2.5 billion. Continued inaction will turn the hundreds of thousands we are seeing now into millions seeking a better life in Europe." Do we continue the same route and witness this mass migration over the next few decades or do we move towards something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative and try drive the poorest towards a more Western way of living and get their populations to a stable level...increase their standards of living but at a cost of a huge increase in consumption? Or do we continue to decrease ours? Is there a balance somewhere? At what point do you say a place is full? How do we begin to square these circles?
once you're in the territory of weighing one continent's needs against another's you're in impossible straits already. The people who run this shindig are aware decades in advance which cultures will rise and fall and which technologies and mind control frameworks will be needed to manage it all. It just looks like permanent disaster because european/ 'white' culture and its linked effects on the last 600 years of world history, is more or less done for.
whatever way the next 100 years go, and Ive tried to convey that the transition will be very traumatic, our generation isn't relevant, and our world-culture as it were is also a sideshow. it'll be a bit like the Brits when their empire collapsed over a 30 year period back in the early to mid 20th century. Sorry for being negative!
so, this bizarre 'holiday' we're having is kind of a statement that there is no economics anymore; they're essentially telling you that we all now live in a world of pure structure, pure systemisation. the old world of interacting forces and trends and tensions of opposites is over. In some ways this makes life easier as you don't have to worry about some of the questions you've raised above. But as I've said earlier, the mental effort involved in running a world where the higher ups have explicitly shown there is no foundation anymore will be a lot for all of us, and will only be a natural fit for those under 30...
it's worth having a look at the dialectic of fossil fuels vs 'renewables', not being a pretentious cunt but dialectic is an important word just now.
Quote from: Pedrito on May 07, 2020, 07:03:14 AM
The dole in Ireland used to be used as a type of base Universal Income in the same way it's used in that Stockton piece. Here in Spain the system still exists to quite a degree, whereby you might get enough from the dole to actually allow you to work part time or even have a job in a bar or have your small piece of land or whatever. The problem was when the beancounters came in and started making sure if you were on the dole you basically shouldn't have a job. Council housing and council estates didn't have the stigma attached to them that they do now.
in the 70s they more or less bought/built/gave away a house for everyone in the land despite the country being 'bankrupt' and the uk falling apart completely. we grew up thinking that's what life would be for us in our turn but it sure didn't work out like that. it was more or less a massive unofficial compulsory purchase project, but you wont hear much about it now as it doesnt suit the current darwinistic lunatics running ALL the man parties here.
you're right to equate the high welfare payments here vs say the uk to UBI by another name,but that whole ireland vs uk shared social history thing is a massive topic in itself
This one hasn't seen much action lately, but it seems like the best place to stick this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldeconomicforum/2016/11/10/shopping-i-cant-really-remember-what-that-is-or-how-differently-well-live-in-2030
This is from the World Economic Forum, the main drivers of The Great Reset, which will soon be the idea sold everywhere. Ties in with the Smart City thing we hear of a lot. I can see a lot of people wanting to get on board with this, but I think I would be one of the ones stuck in the olden days, outside of the city.
The Great Reset or some form of the idea has been around a good while, and the only way it could be implemented according to its' proponents would be to flatten all of the economies and build them back up again from scratch. Coincidentally, that is what is happening at the moment. Anyone else heard of it yet?
It looks like perfection to the point of sterility. Brave New World kind of stuff. Some undoubtedly positive aspect, but a sort of soullessness too. Obviously it's an exaggeration that ignores the 'human factor' that would find its own way of corrupting most of the positives.
Yeah it really does sound both wonderful and absolutely terrible at once. I wouldn't see it coming in the next 10 years, but then again, life is gone very You won't believe what happens next in the last few years. Ties in nicely with the resource based economy idea.
This is pretty frightening, and in light of the borrowings outlined in yesterday's budget, sheds a bit of light on the scale of the economic problem facing us in this country right now. Look at Ireland's GDP to Debt ratio. Unbelievable.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
To answer the original question ->
https://youtu.be/uD4izuDMUQA
Yes. :laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: The Butcher on October 26, 2020, 06:49:06 PM
To answer the original question ->
https://youtu.be/uD4izuDMUQA
Yes. :laugh: :abbath:
Saw a similar vid before but couldn't help being drawn in again. Fascinating stuff and it kills me that I won't be around to see it.
All I take from that video is that the guy keeps saying 'we don't know' because they don't.
Yeah they don't. That is sort of the beauty of it all too; the wild speculation.
Seen a few things like that over the years where it shows what will happen assuming everything that is already known is true. Saw a slightly different but equally interesting one before where it's a chap lying on the ground and it zooms out x10 every few seconds and also starting at the same point zooms in as well. Must dig it out.
Was that the one with big willied black lad with a towel over his shoulders?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on October 27, 2020, 11:51:47 AM
Was that the one with big willied black lad with a towel over his shoulders?
Yeah that's the one. I have so many like that I can never remember the names of them all :laugh:
Hopping over to Birmingham to see Immolation or to Vienna to see Behemoth (lol) could be on the cards again soon.....
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/co2-was-just-converted-into-jet-fuel-and-it-could-reshape-aviation-for-good-42752
At least Tesco are making us all feel safer....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40199379.html
https://twitter.com/i/status/1347871065666674688
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on January 01, 2021, 01:27:56 PM
At least Tesco are making us all feel safer....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40199379.html
What is the point of that?
'It's for your security'.
Oh, right. Great!
Was reading this about global temperature modelling https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/
Then I found this https://realclimatescience.com/fifty-years-of-failed-apocalyptic-forecasts/
Not saying either one is right or wrong but it was a bit of fun to see how this particular crisis has been laid out over the years with a lot of the predictions failing to materialise so far. My main takeaway from it was that computer modelling of future events is not the exact science one would be led to believe by the headlines. Too many variables I suppose, a sort of butterfly effect situation. Of course those headlines in the second article are just that; headlines designed to grab the attention and money of the readers, so it doesn't say as much as the author seems to think it does but still interesting enough to look at.
Anyway I wonder how many of the experts in any given field ever track back on their own predictions? Having a quick search I didn't find much. Sometimes they revised the predictions to be even more dire than before but not much of anyone saying it's not as bad as thought, in site of it not being as bad as thought so far. Is it a reputation thing where experts must constantly back up their expert opinion by doubling down on predictions or something to do with loss of funding at the admittance of not being sure about something? I notice a lot of the predictions don't take the sun itself into account, only what humans do which seems a bit silly when the earth revolves around the sun and spins on its' own axis and then there is the wobble known as precession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession which surely must have an effect on global temperatures or weather patterns.
Post isn't anti-green policy or anything like that, there is every argument for making the earth a nicer place to live and not to dirty it up with various pollutants and turn it into a giant landfill, but to me the temperature thing seems to be a little bit beyond simply being down to emissions and it would be interesting to see when we all go green on things and really reduce the emissions, will it make much difference to the actual outcome or is it delusions of grandeur to think that the shift in global climates is down to humans and not a natural ebb and flow over long periods of time.
It was this https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-9-years-john-kerry/ which prompted me to look at the nasa predictions in the first place but much like Al Gore's dire warning, he seems awfully certain about something that is far from certain, although the general consensus is in agreement with him.
Climate Ireland has some fantastic modelling software on their website. When I have time I can link some articles about where we're going (can do during the week, busy right now). And where we're going is fucked. Now we won't see the worst of it but by 2100 sea level will rise by 1.1 metres. The middle of cork city will be underwater. For us say to 2050 gonna be a lot more heatwaves. Less precipitation and do ya like storms. Cause were gonna get more of them. I work in the energy dept in UCC and we had a climate adaption course the last day given by the MAREI centre based in ringaskiddy (theyre a dept in UCC). A real opener. As i said the planet's fucked, for humans anyway, unless there's a serious change in carbon emissions.
Yeah but that's sort of what I was getting at. How accurate are these models and do they take account of any solar phenomena in the projections. Like you say cork underwater etc and may well be right, but that is exactly the sort of prediction that has been made so many times by modelling and hasn't come to pass as of yet. I'm not saying it's wrong either this time, I haven't a fucking clue if it is or isn't and I'm all on board with a cleaner greener future but at the same time it seems to be the consensus that the temperature is a man made problem or is in the hands of man to fix, when I don't see the proof so far. Like we could do everything right around emissions and what then if it doesn't make the difference we all hope for, because I'm not altogether certain from what I've read and watched that it would turn out to be as simple as that. I guess I'm saying that we might all be fucked no matter what way we go about mitigating our impact on the planet.
We will all die one day, individuals and the species alike, that much is indeed guaranteed.
Yeah I guess the fact we are all fucked eventually is not really in dispute and it's just a case of how long.
You can look at it more simply. The more carbon there is in the atmosphere the higher the temperature of the planet. We're fucking a shit load of carbon into the atmosphere since the 1950's and temperatures are increasing. So for me it's pretty simple but I'll dig out some of the literature during the week I was looking at.
I'm not disputing it makes a difference, logic would say that it does, but how much is the question and how much of climate change is simply beyond the capabilities of mathematical modelling? That doesn't mean don't reduce it or anything like that because no matter what, there are certainly benefits to having less or a stable amount of it. Planting more trees or not destroying the forests of the world might be as important as cutting emissions.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 20, 2021, 07:31:49 PM
I'm not disputing it makes a difference, logic would say that it does, but how much is the question and how much of climate change is simply beyond the capabilities of mathematical modelling? That doesn't mean don't reduce it or anything like that because no matter what, there are certainly benefits to having less or a stable amount of it. Planting more trees or not destroying the forests of the world might be as important as cutting emissions.
Take one large university. To offset the energy consumption of 1 month you would have to plant 28000 trees. So we would have to some amount of the trees to offset the world's energy. Yes we should plant more forests and not cut down what we have but we have to think of other solutions.
Fair point. I was looking at some thing lately which was calculating the amount of trees needed to offset however many tons of emissions. Can't remember what sort of number it was but it seemed almost doable. Saw something about whale shit as well, that might have been in this thread. Carbon capture might be a solution but I don't know what sort of weight is behind that initiative.
Whale shit is needed as a fertiliser in the oceans, no? It's good for algae which emits oxygen and is also possibly food for certain fish. Might have that arseways.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 20, 2021, 11:18:38 PM
Fair point. I was looking at some thing lately which was calculating the amount of trees needed to offset however many tons of emissions. Can't remember what sort of number it was but it seemed almost doable. Saw something about whale shit as well, that might have been in this thread. Carbon capture might be a solution but I don't know what sort of weight is behind that initiative.
New technologies for carbon capture for sure. Nuclear for electricity. All fossil fuels have to stop. Harsh but unfortunately has to be done. Which it won't.
Quote from: Ollkiller on February 20, 2021, 04:42:58 PM
You can look at it more simply. The more carbon there is in the atmosphere the higher the temperature of the planet. We're fucking a shit load of carbon into the atmosphere since the 1950's and temperatures are increasing.
This is the comparison I've made to it before:
https://www.facebook.com/metaphysiology/posts/1146342842203164
Nuclear does seem the way forward but not without a rather large amount of risk. Fukushima was still pissing out waste into the ocean last I checked. Couple more of those wouldn't do us any good. Or that story about the forest fires near Chernobyl and what they would release if left off was worrying as well. Even so, I'd be in agreement about the nuclear power. The texas situation doesn't make a great case for wind energy in certain circumstances but I am surprised that more hasn't been put into other renewables like hydro and tidal energy or even the dearth of solar power despite its' relative cheapness compared to say a decade ago is surprising. Even if a certain amount of fossil fuels were still in use for a while they could surely be very well supplemented with what other options we have. All signs point toward the next decade seeing massive change in that regard so we shall see. Don't think fusion is quite there yet.
Would also love to know what exactly it was that Tesla had in mind with his idea of using the earth itself as a capacitor or something along those lines
I still feel other influences such as the sun itself have more bearing than we give it credit for but that's just a hunch and no reason not to steam ahead with cleaning up things up that we can control. I also wondered at times what sort of geological effect doing things like taking the oil out from under the ground has. Imagine if it had even a tiny effect on something like the rotation of the earth or in some way effected how the crust floats on the mantle and we didn't know about it yet.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 20, 2021, 11:41:02 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on February 20, 2021, 04:42:58 PM
You can look at it more simply. The more carbon there is in the atmosphere the higher the temperature of the planet. We're fucking a shit load of carbon into the atmosphere since the 1950's and temperatures are increasing.
This is the comparison I've made to it before:
https://www.facebook.com/metaphysiology/posts/1146342842203164
Yes very good, and I do recall that from much earlier in this very thread. No doubt it is mostly ourselves we would fuck up and presumably a lot of mammals along with us but the likes of the cockroaches or the extremophile bacteria would be laughing
??? That's not a mountain. That's a rubbish site in Ghazipur just outside Delhi in India.
Pretty impressive....
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55018581
"Thanks to lockdowns in early 2020, carbon emissions fell by 17% at their peak, but the overall effect on concentrations has been very small.
Preliminary estimates suggest that CO2 will continue to increase this year but that rise will be reduced by 0.08 to 0.23ppm. "
This was back in first lockdown when you also had most of China in full lockdown and most of Europe. So even when people are locked away in their homes, transport down massively, it doesn't budge emissions by much. I don't think there is much stomach across the world to do what climate action folks/groups expect to be done which would be far more reaching than what has been experienced during lockdown.
Gonna have to look at carbon capture judging by those stats
https://mobile.twitter.com/rice_e/status/1362427619275341831
Michael Ryan saying it exactly as he sees it. Astfgyl you might have a few things to disagree with him on I'm sure. ;)
I'd say astfygl agrees with everything Dr Ryan says there. How could anyone not agree with him?
Quote from: Nazgûl on February 25, 2021, 05:55:23 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/rice_e/status/1362427619275341831
Michael Ryan saying it exactly as he sees it. Astfgyl you might have a few things to disagree with him on I'm sure. ;)
He's dead right. Especially how society is based on profit and economic growth and fuck any other way of living.
Let me guess, the solution is stakeholder capitalism from our partners the WEF?
of course what he says there is all fair enough and I would say the same thing but let's see what is in store as a solution.
Also laughed at the part where he says "someday our children will wake up in a world where there is a pandemic"
Time to build back better.
And no I don't disagree with his assertion that globalism is a bad thing and that the solutions should be aimed at improving things at a community level, but what does he offer as a solution?
Quote from: astfgyl on February 25, 2021, 08:44:25 PM
Let me guess, the solution is stakeholder capitalism from our partners the WEF?
of course what he says there is all fair enough and I would say the same thing but let's see what is in store as a solution.
Also laughed at the part where he says "someday our children will wake up in a world where there is a pandemic"
Time to build back better.
And no I don't disagree with his assertion that globalism is a bad thing and that the solutions should be aimed at improving things at a community level, but what does he offer as a solution?
There's literally tons of things you could do. And mostly none of them will be done. Because of money. Capatilism is a great system but without checks and balances it's the fucking monster it is today. What could you do.
Nuclear for energy needs.
Eradication of fossil fuels.
Print money for people. They do it all the time for banks.
Get out of the fucking weight of buying a house that enslaves people. Housing should be a right not a privilege. Along with health and clean drinking water.
Corporations based in a country pay the same amount of tax you and I do in that country. Would give countries way more revenue to spend on social services. Ya know, benefiting people rather than a balance sheet.
Edit: fucking disposable cups, plates etc. Everyone get a keep cup. You don't bring it to the shop then no skinny latte mocha cunt cup of coffee for ya. If your business doesn't do biodegradable packaging, then you can't operate.
I could go on, there's no end to amount of things and ideas that could be done. But fuck all will be done. Because A, the rich and people in power don't want to do it. B, because it would need to be done on a global scale and C, people are fucking idiots. They think this is the only system that could work and cant get their head around any other way. Fucking setting up the powerful to keep raping the other 99%.
Quote from: Ollkiller on February 25, 2021, 09:58:15 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on February 25, 2021, 08:44:25 PM
Let me guess, the solution is stakeholder capitalism from our partners the WEF?
of course what he says there is all fair enough and I would say the same thing but let's see what is in store as a solution.
Also laughed at the part where he says "someday our children will wake up in a world where there is a pandemic"
Time to build back better.
And no I don't disagree with his assertion that globalism is a bad thing and that the solutions should be aimed at improving things at a community level, but what does he offer as a solution?
There's literally tons of things you could do. And mostly none of them will be done. Because of money. Capatilism is a great system but without checks and balances it's the fucking monster it is today. What could you do.
Nuclear for energy needs.
Eradication of fossil fuels.
Print money for people. They do it all the time for banks.
Get out of the fucking weight of buying a house that enslaves people. Housing should be a right not a privilege. Along with health and clean drinking water.
Corporations based in a country pay the same amount of tax you and I do in that country. Would give countries way more revenue to spend on social services. Ya know, benefiting people rather than a balance sheet.
Edit: fucking disposable cups, plates etc. Everyone get a keep cup. You don't bring it to the shop then no skinny latte mocha cunt cup of coffee for ya. If your business doesn't do biodegradable packaging, then you can't operate.
I could go on, there's no end to amount of things and ideas that could be done. But fuck all will be done. Because A, the rich and people in power don't want to do it. B, because it would need to be done on a global scale and C, people are fucking idiots. They think this is the only system that could work and cant get their head around any other way. Fucking setting up the powerful to keep raping the other 99%.
You have rakes of good ideas there that I fully agree with and all fit into my own idea of an ideal world. I would be fully behind every one of them.
I was wondering what dr Ryan is proposing though because you can be certain it will be a far cry from the sort of things you are saying or anything I would come up with myself.
The WHO are in partnership with the WEF and the solution offered by the WEF is something called stakeholder capitalism, which is worth looking into if you want to expand upon that vision of the boot stamping on a human face forever. It is not the utopia that I would envision.
I just had an idea. What if everyone had a limited amount of miles they could personally do in their car and that would encourage us all to use the bike or the feet for the oul trip to the shop or wherever local, and keep the miles for the good stuff? There's a solution of a kind while we wait for a decent electric car that can actually bring us somewhere.
Be a better idea than lockdowns... ;)
Quote from: astfgyl on February 25, 2021, 10:32:14 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on February 25, 2021, 09:58:15 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on February 25, 2021, 08:44:25 PM
Let me guess, the solution is stakeholder capitalism from our partners the WEF?
of course what he says there is all fair enough and I would say the same thing but let's see what is in store as a solution.
Also laughed at the part where he says "someday our children will wake up in a world where there is a pandemic"
Time to build back better.
And no I don't disagree with his assertion that globalism is a bad thing and that the solutions should be aimed at improving things at a community level, but what does he offer as a solution?
There's literally tons of things you could do. And mostly none of them will be done. Because of money. Capatilism is a great system but without checks and balances it's the fucking monster it is today. What could you do.
Nuclear for energy needs.
Eradication of fossil fuels.
Print money for people. They do it all the time for banks.
Get out of the fucking weight of buying a house that enslaves people. Housing should be a right not a privilege. Along with health and clean drinking water.
Corporations based in a country pay the same amount of tax you and I do in that country. Would give countries way more revenue to spend on social services. Ya know, benefiting people rather than a balance sheet.
Edit: fucking disposable cups, plates etc. Everyone get a keep cup. You don't bring it to the shop then no skinny latte mocha cunt cup of coffee for ya. If your business doesn't do biodegradable packaging, then you can't operate.
I could go on, there's no end to amount of things and ideas that could be done. But fuck all will be done. Because A, the rich and people in power don't want to do it. B, because it would need to be done on a global scale and C, people are fucking idiots. They think this is the only system that could work and cant get their head around any other way. Fucking setting up the powerful to keep raping the other 99%.
You have rakes of good ideas there that I fully agree with and all fit into my own idea of an ideal world. I would be fully behind every one of them.
I was wondering what dr Ryan is proposing though because you can be certain it will be a far cry from the sort of things you are saying or anything I would come up with myself.
The WHO are in partnership with the WEF and the solution offered by the WEF is something called stakeholder capitalism, which is worth looking into if you want to expand upon that vision of the boot stamping on a human face forever. It is not the utopia that I would envision.
Stakeholder capitalism, I'll check it out, But id nearly guarantee it goes nowhere what is actually needed.
Oh fuck no, it doesn't even touch on being anything that will be good for anyone bar whoever controls it
"I should have put it up higher"....... duh ::)
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0303/1200650-greta-thunberg-mural/
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 03, 2021, 05:28:41 PM
"I should have put it up higher"....... duh ::)
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0303/1200650-greta-thunberg-mural/
Could take a grand piss up on it after a few pints
The one good thing to come out if the pandemic was that self righteous little asshat disappeared from public view. If that mural was near me I'd vandalise it myself.
Its delicious when these little hypocrites paint murals and want to save the planet yet none of them will give up their I phones or Pennys gear.
I can't fucking stand that little fucker. I also would have at least pissed on it if I got anywhere near it.
Must play a game of follow the money around the whence and where of how she came about
Graffiti got graffiti'd.
Would have been funnier had it been left alone, and then the council paint over it because of a lack of planning permission.
That would be class but it would never happen in much the same way as the blm protests are not a public health risk
Those utter spas up north are looking to go against the Good Friday Agreement. Their rhetoric and daft logic is horrible to listen to, I don't think bigger cunts exist on the planet.
Are you forgetting the importance of FLEG though?
Quote from: Emphyrio on March 04, 2021, 09:50:59 AM
Those utter spas up north are looking to go against the Good Friday Agreement. Their rhetoric and daft logic is horrible to listen to, I don't think bigger cunts exist on the planet.
Now can you imagine the ones who are into hunting on top of that! :-X
Doesn't bear thinking about.
Sure the cunts have all the bears killed.
Arlene Foster kills bears with one fanny flash..!!
Here is a solution proposed for one aspect of our fuckedness. I put it here because it seems the best fit when it is a societal solution that is being proposed.
I am unsure how I feel about this, given the ambiguity of the wording and the potential applications of the amendment. It's from last year but I only came across it today and hadn't seen it reported anywhere. It sounds grand on the face of it but I dunno if I trust anything that gives the state more power in this country
https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2020/21/eng/initiated/b2120d.pdf
Tick tock Tick tock.... :laugh:
https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-mural-greta-thunberg-5371807-Mar2021/
:laugh:
A Bernie Sanders mural beside it..such a load of wank.
George floyd as well.
Irish heroes one and all
Looks like she's done shit-loads of pop icons of one sort or another:
https://gcn.ie/emma-blake-creative-lockdown/
Should warn ye before you click that she's described as a queer artist; wouldn't want ye having an aneurysm from that information leaping off the screen at ye.
Couldn't give a fuck if she is queer or not. I have but one criterion for judgement of others and that is where they fall on the scale of fucking prick to sound. So someone can have the complete opposite view to me on anything and I can still like them.
Everything else is simply window dressing.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 03:36:28 PM
Looks like she's done shit-loads of pop icons of one sort or another:
https://gcn.ie/emma-blake-creative-lockdown/
Should warn ye before you click that she's described as a queer artist; wouldn't want ye having an aneurysm from that information leaping off the screen at ye.
Yawn..she sounds so edgy and innovative!
I'm confused.
There's probably an LGBT+ hotline that can help you with that
Quote from: Pedrito on March 05, 2021, 04:24:18 PM
There's probably an LGBT+ hotline that can help you with that
They're not inclusive enough.
Quote from: Emphyrio on March 05, 2021, 04:18:03 PM
I'm confused.
We will have to get a letter added for that, because LGBTQQIP2SAA (seriously) has nothing for being confused.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on March 05, 2021, 04:18:03 PM
I'm confused.
We will have to get a letter added for that, because LGBTQQIP2SAA (seriously) has nothing for being confused.
I think the second Q is 'Questioning'.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 04:36:09 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 05, 2021, 04:32:08 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on March 05, 2021, 04:18:03 PM
I'm confused.
We will have to get a letter added for that, because LGBTQQIP2SAA (seriously) has nothing for being confused.
I think the second Q is 'Questioning'.
LGBTQQIP2SAA stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, queer, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit (2S), androgynous and asexual.
I think one can be questioning without being confused. Perhaps that particular situation should be addressed too, by the addition of even more letters and numbers. We wouldn't want to lead to more confusion by leaving any ambiguity. Going to need a letter for those men who want to have sex with women as well, and the women who want to have sex with men in the interests of inclusivity.
Hotline question 1:
When you watch porno do your eyes wander to lads' arsecracks or are you fully focussed on the young lady?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 03:36:28 PM
Looks like she's done shit-loads of pop icons of one sort or another:
https://gcn.ie/emma-blake-creative-lockdown/
Should warn ye before you click that she's described as a queer artist; wouldn't want ye having an aneurysm from that information leaping off the screen at ye.
Lucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
Quote from: Pedrito on March 05, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
Hotline question 1:
When you watch porno do your eyes wander to lads' arsecracks or are you fully focussed on the young lady?
I gave the brother in law a lend of a blue back in the day and he said that was when he realised he was gay because he was buzzing harder off the pipes than the pussies.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 05, 2021, 04:59:19 PM
Lucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
We might need a letter for that particular fetish, too.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 05, 2021, 04:59:19 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 03:36:28 PM
Looks like she's done shit-loads of pop icons of one sort or another:
https://gcn.ie/emma-blake-creative-lockdown/
Should warn ye before you click that she's described as a queer artist; wouldn't want ye having an aneurysm from that information leaping off the screen at ye.
Lucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
That's racist. I'm sure plenty black, brown and Asian people think she's a pain in the hole too.
Quote from: Pedrito on March 05, 2021, 05:12:42 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 05, 2021, 04:59:19 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 03:36:28 PM
Looks like she's done shit-loads of pop icons of one sort or another:
https://gcn.ie/emma-blake-creative-lockdown/
Should warn ye before you click that she's described as a queer artist; wouldn't want ye having an aneurysm from that information leaping off the screen at ye.
Lucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
That's racist. I'm sure plenty black, brown and Asian people think she's a pain in the hole too.
:laugh: Spot on.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 05, 2021, 04:59:19 PMLucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
How
dare you!
Calm down Kurt. Nobody is trying to steal your childhood.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 05, 2021, 06:21:53 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 05, 2021, 04:59:19 PMLucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
How dare you!
Don't let them trigger you Kurtis!
:laugh: :abbath:
I'm holding on here guys, don't worry.
I'd light some incense but that's probably frowned upon nowadays too.
Culrltural appropriation. Japanese tinkers invented it
Those feckin jikeys.... :laugh:
LGBTQQ2IXYZ :laugh:
This is what happens when you become your own hobby- sexual subgenres!
My ex dumped me, think I'll cut my mickey off. Did you ever hear the likes of it :laugh: pure nonsense
What the hell is 2 spirit? I actually don't understand half of them.
Into ghost threesomes probably.
A chick with a dick, it's there in flesh but not in spirit? Or the opposite? Who fukin knows? Poor lost bastards.
Here they are marching, if it's any help
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit#/media/File:SF_Pride_2014_-_Stierch_3.jpg
Pack of Nazis, read some Gramsci and understand that the ruling class invented common sense to keep you towing the party line!
I wonder what thefour eyed guinea windbag would make of his darlings turning his philosophy in on itself?
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23328940.2020.1796243
Reading a bit about the Grand Solar Minimum there, which reminded me of what I was getting at a few posts back around are humans deceiving themselves to think that they can affect global temperatures to any effective degree, in either raising or lowering them? I still think green policies are an obvious winner when it comes to the general state of the planet we live on. Sustainability and a policy of non pollution can only be a good thing but I'm starting to think that the human effect on global temperatures is not as profound as we have been led to believe. Again, reiterating here that I am all for clean air and clean water and clean earth and welcome any move towards remediation of the damage we have done as a species to the aforementioned basic needs, but the temperature thing hasn't got me fully convinced yet. Like if there is something in the Grand Solar Minimum and the temperature drops globally, will the level of carbon in the atmosphere be such a bad thing then? Probably yes, for some other reason and also the GSM thing isn't definitely right either but still worthy of a bit of discussion.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 05, 2021, 04:59:19 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 05, 2021, 03:36:28 PM
Looks like she's done shit-loads of pop icons of one sort or another:
https://gcn.ie/emma-blake-creative-lockdown/
Should warn ye before you click that she's described as a queer artist; wouldn't want ye having an aneurysm from that information leaping off the screen at ye.
Lucky her name isn't Greta. That seems to trigger a lot of middle aged white lads .
I've seen this written about people who are detractors of greta and frankly it's utter bollocks. A cursory glance at Facebook or any other social media platform and you will see there's a lot of blacks, yellows, pinks and other self-identity people joined in their derision of this mascot of climate change.
Middle aged white men aren't your enemy you fucking idiot. Your own fears and sensibilities are your enemies.
Regardless of skin colour or gender: spray painting the word 'slut' acrosss the mural of a teenage girl, you'd want to be some sad, angry and pathetic cunt.
Painting a mural of a climate change mascot with environment damaging spray paint and taking photos with your slave labour built smartphone while preaching said climate change makes you a bigger insufferable cunt imo.
But still probably not as sad and pathetic.
It's less.
Greta's a legend fair play to her. She would have made an amazing underground black metal artist, big pissed off head on her and the accent to booth... :abbath: :abbath: :abbath: Grrreeeetttaaaa!!! :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
Quote from: Pedrito on March 11, 2021, 10:15:54 PM
Greta's a legend fair play to her. She would have made an amazing underground black metal artist, big pissed off head on her and the accent to booth... :abbath: :abbath: :abbath: Grrreeeetttaaaa!!! :abbath: :abbath: :abbath:
She can't play black metal surely? The face paint is bad for the environment! Not to mention all of the plastic on CDs, the electricity used to play instruments, the leather used from animals. So many things going against it.
Minimalist recording done on casette in the natural light of a Norweguan Spring morning. Only biodegradable cashew nuts eaten and not a hint of a Nespresso capsule..it's doable alright
Quote from: Pedrito on March 11, 2021, 10:44:55 PM
Minimalist recording done on casette in the natural light of a Norweguan Spring morning. Only biodegradable cashew nuts eaten and not a hint of a Nespresso capsule..it's doable alright
You can't be using all of the natural light!!!! You're burning out the Sun!!!!! You middle aged white bastard!!!!!!!!!
*Posted using Android (a white bastard invention)*
(https://i.imgur.com/NatP1Yg.jpg)
Ah yes, verbalise using comics created by 1st year art degree students. Nobody can come back from that. You got me.
Quote from: Blackout on March 11, 2021, 11:38:03 PM
Ah yes, verbalise using comics created by 1st year art degree students. Nobody can come back from that. You got me.
A pure ad hominem, on the other hand, is always a winner, eh?
FYI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Bors
Mainly just letting you in on the secret that all the "points" you've been rolling out are a little worn out at this stage. There's presumably much more valid criticism of the Greta phenomenon to be found.
There are a bunch of Feminist stickers with the slogan 'Facing the current crisis, feminism is essential' plastered all over the place around my 'barrio' (and presumably others). They left a big space underneath though, ripe for a touch of that Kilkenny wit and discretion to be permanent markered. Will report back.
Quote from: Blackout on March 11, 2021, 11:38:03 PM
Ah yes, verbalise using comics created by 1st year art degree students. Nobody can come back from that. You got me.
Careful now, if he hears you he may decapitate you after ingesting his Antifa super soldier serum.
It's not that Greta doesn't make valid points, it's just she's an insufferable pain in the hole like all of her ilk.
Like Bono as portrayed by South Park!
Do you want the biddy?
Quote from: Bigmac on March 12, 2021, 10:54:12 AM
Quote from: Blackout on March 11, 2021, 11:38:03 PM
Ah yes, verbalise using comics created by 1st year art degree students. Nobody can come back from that. You got me.
Careful now, if he hears you he may decapitate you after ingesting his Antifa super soldier serum.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
No takers on the old Grand Solar Minimum so
There's no secrecy around solar minimums and maximums. Here's an interesting video from the PBS Spacetime channel I recently recommended:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztninkgZ0ws
I think it's important to get one's head around the fact that scientists (not speaking about the presenter, obviously) with this depth of understanding of cosmological climate influence still take human-driven climate change extremely seriously.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 14, 2021, 04:19:00 PM
There's no secrecy around solar minimums and maximums. Here's an interesting video from the PBS Spacetime channel I recently recommended:
I think it's important to get one's head around the fact that scientists (not speaking about the presenter, obviously) with this depth of understanding of cosmological climate influence still take human-driven climate change extremely seriously.
Cool, I'll get a look at that for definite. I know the idea of solar cycles is nothing new, but a lot of it seems to be disregarded in general discussion. Regarding climate change, there is no doubt in my mind that humans can affect it through deforestation and other agricultural and geological endeavours. I mean, nobody knows what effect something like taking oil out of the ground has on things and it's probably immeasurable but who knows if the oil itself serves some geological purpose beyond just hiding underground. Coal mining may be something similar. Not saying it is, but not something I see much about one way or the other. I guess my point around the solar cycles (which I reckon must have a far more rofound effect on global temperatures than anything we can do, or even fully understand) is that all of the climate predictions (or more precisely, warming) disregard this effect for the presumption that things will follow a definite trend given our behaviour and I think that is actually far from a given with all the outside sources of potential change. In no way am I saying we shouldn't follow green policies anyway. I'm all for that, to at least try leave a clean earth for our descendants, but I think modelling (climate in this case, but in general with extremely complex systems) is far from an exact science and shouldn't be the religion it seems to be. Surely the whole pursuit of scientific understanding should be to prove oneself wrong as well as right, and we should never discount that there may be massively overlooked variables which have a huge effect on the overall outcome. I wonder how many climate models factor in solar cycles?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 14, 2021, 04:19:00 PM
There's no secrecy around solar minimums and maximums. Here's an interesting video from the PBS Spacetime channel I recently recommended:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztninkgZ0ws
Watched this last night. Decent little video and a couple of elements of the earth's rotation I hadn't considered in it. The only thing is that he takes the energy output of the sun to be an absolute constant throughout the many millions of years in question, or if not constant, negligible. That's the thing I was saying was missing from the modelling but I also don't know what difference it makes beyond the one thing I was reading about it. Great YT channel all the same, love the PBS stuff.
Here's something around greenhouse effect from 40 years ago showing how fossil fuel companies were well aware of the issue but not prepared to do anything about it, unsurprisingly.
Long one though: http://www.climatefiles.com/exxonmobil/1982-memo-to-exxon-management-about-co2-greenhouse-effect/
Good bit in this link about potential solutions too: https://www.drawdown.org/
https://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/01/17/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-political-economy-of-the-non-profit-industrial-complex/
Bit of reading about our oul pal Thunberg here. Then again it isn't like we don't all know she is a front for something far more powerful than a young kid.
Edit: Not saying I agree with everything raised in the article, just the obvious point that Thunberg is simply the public face of the usual profit-driven shite that has been going on forever. Loads of little things to disagree with in there, too.
Nothing we didn't already know, but.....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/29/wealth-inequality-unequal
https://gript.ie/warning-irelands-obsession-with-renewable-energy-will-lead-us-to-disaster/
Given that it's Gript, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they totally invented the "hidden identity" of the author, but even still, the renewable energy aspect of the Texas power outage was a con:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/17/climate/texas-blackouts-disinformation.html
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 06, 2021, 05:29:36 PM
Given that it's Gript, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they totally invented the "hidden identity" of the author, but even still, the renewable energy aspect of the Texas power outage was a con:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/17/climate/texas-blackouts-disinformation.html
Given that it's the NYT, I would be equally surprised if it wasn't dressed up to suit their agenda either but both sides are worth reading. I would have thought myself that renewable is the way forward, and haven't changed my mind. Anyway, even if it was only 7% of Texas' supply at the time, what would have been the situation if it was 100%? It's worth considering at least. What I took from the gript article (and yes they do have a certain bias, but find me one news source that doesn't) was that the need to diversify the type of renewable sources is a valid discussion. Not a new one, mind, but worth having before we cover the whole place in wind farms. Solar is a bit of a non-starter in this country for obvious reasons but it is still worth having, to supplement the other sources. Hydro is another but of course not without its' environmental impact either. I also reckon a bit of nuclear energy would help but again not without issues and hazards (fukushima is still not sorted for example).
I think with a lot of things like wind energy it has become a bit of a religion and it's not great when anything is deified or cannot be subject to question and as was pointed out in the NYT article (somewhat ironically, but still a good point) the politicising of something like energy supplies is certainly not good for the eventual outcome.
There's also this quote which is a good point from the Gript story: "As an aside, one of the great ironies is that China continues to manufacture 80% of the world's panels in factories powered by reliable coal fired electricity!", which shows a bit of the silliness inherent in a place as insignificant in size and population as Ireland meeting all their targets while the largest polluters in the world carry on doing what they do. I mean the point of the article seems to lean toward nuclear being the best way to keep prices low and thus benefit all instead of simply those who can afford it, so I don't think it makes a bad point.
You're an awful one for the what-if-isms! Whoever wrote the Gript piece is playing on a con to boost a position, it's pointless saying, "But what if it wasn't a con??" The Texas power outage was not related to renewable energy, thus the piece is propaganda BS. That it was printed on a site where I have only ever seen propaganda BS is incidental.
The NYT is as propaganda laden as any of them with it's obvious bias so that point goes both ways. They quote the figure as 7%. In fact, how they report it is
QuoteWind makes up just a fraction — 7 percent or so, by some estimates — of the state's overall mix of power generation this time of year.
They quote the minimum possible amount, when a quick search finds me several quotes of 20% on average, (here's one, from my greatest love, the fact-check: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-texas-wind-turbines-explain-idUSKBN2AJ2EI) thus showing their own bias in calling out the other reports. Now, go to the link where they got the 7% figure from and there is a bit of a twist to be found there as well.
QuoteOnly 7% of ERCOT's forecasted winter capacity, or 6 gigawatts, was expected to come from various wind power sources across the state.
That is where they got it from. After the same page saying this:
QuoteAn official with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas said Tuesday afternoon that 16 gigawatts of renewable energy generation, mostly wind generation, were offline. Nearly double that, 30 gigawatts, had been lost from thermal sources, which includes gas, coal and nuclear energy.
By Wednesday, those numbers had changed as more operators struggled to operate in the cold: 45 gigawatts total were offline, with 28 gigawats from thermal sources and 18 gigawatts from renewable sources, ERCOT officials said.
That is a fair bit higher of a figure than the quoted 7%, or 6 gigawatts that the NYT uses as the main thrust of their article. 18 gigawatts. Three times more renewable offline than the 6 gigawatts figure that the NYT uses to make their claim. Or to put it another way, "28 gigawatts from thermal sources and 18 gigawatts from renewable sources" makes the percentage of the total loss from renewable sources far higher than their alleged total contribution.
Yes, that makes the NYT piece as biased as fuck and reliant on nobody bothering their hole doing the due diligence and following their link, instead relying on the fact that their readership will be biased enough to lap that shit up, content in the knowledge that they provided a source without checking said source. Watch your own sources of propaganda and check your own clear bias before you attempt to ridicule mine.
So, for a what-if, again, given the quoted figures pointing towards the fact that the wind failed harder than the gas and coal and makes up only a small percentage of the total output, what do you think would have happened if they had been 100% reliant on the wind, as is the environmentalist's dream? They'd have been even more fucked is the answer.
So, the Gript article makes a far better and I would argue less politically driven point than the heap of shit that you pulled from the NYT, in saying that the need to keep the sources diverse is important and the relentless and possibly irresponsible pushing of wind as the main alternative to fossil fuels may lead to supply issues in the future. And I posted it to get the discussion going, as someone who thinks renewables are the obvious way forward given the obvious fact that fossil fuels are finite resources, never mind what they do to our air. But the green agenda is unquestionable apparently and as I pointed out in the last reply it's ironic that the NYT should make the point about keeping politics out of energy supply while shitting all over the point with their own politics. So which outlet is playing on a con here?
That enough what-if-isms for you? I question everything.
You say
QuoteThe Texas power outage was not related to renewable energy
and that statement is categorically untrue, backed up by a horseshit media source.
Fair enough, that last statement was an exaggeration. Renewable energy sources failed in the freeze, but were not the primary reason for the power outage, as the mystery author of the Gript piece (echoing everyone at Fox) tries to make out:
Quotewind cannot be summoned onto the network when needed. Usually, this need arises on a cold winter's night, exactly the time that the wind will not be blowing, and the sun will not be shining. We saw this exact scenario play out in February in Texas, and we saw it lead to deaths and significant suffering.
How's that for propaganda language?
Texas never had a strategy to "summon" compensatory wind power onto the network in the winter, so blaming the outage on wind power not stepping up to save the day is disingenuous, at best. No one was sitting around hoping for gusts of wind in order to prevent deaths and significant suffering; there was a storm they weren't prepared for, and most of the outage was the result of outages from Texas' major power source; natural gas. Not to mention that, one would hope, wind turbines in Ireland would be better designed for coping with colder temperatures, closer to say the ones found in Germany or all over Scandinavia.
Definitely sympathetic to a broader capitalist green con though, such as portrayed in Planet of the Humans, in which I found little to disagree with. Green-washing is big business.
Ha. I was immediately suspect of that 7% as well. NYT is no better than any of them.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 06, 2021, 11:56:17 PM
Fair enough, that last statement was an exaggeration. Renewable energy sources failed in the freeze, but were not the primary reason for the power outage, as the mystery author of the Gript piece (echoing everyone at Fox) tries to make out:
Quotewind cannot be summoned onto the network when needed. Usually, this need arises on a cold winter's night, exactly the time that the wind will not be blowing, and the sun will not be shining. We saw this exact scenario play out in February in Texas, and we saw it lead to deaths and significant suffering.
How's that for propaganda language?
Texas never had a strategy to "summon" compensatory wind power onto the network in the winter, so blaming the outage on wind power not stepping up to save the day is disingenuous, at best. No one was sitting around hoping for gusts of wind in order to prevent deaths and significant suffering; there was a storm they weren't prepared for, and most of the outage was the result of outages from Texas' major power source; natural gas. Not to mention that, one would hope, wind turbines in Ireland would be better designed for coping with colder temperatures, closer to say the ones found in Germany or all over Scandinavia.
Definitely sympathetic to a broader capitalist green con though, such as portrayed in Planet of the Humans, in which I found little to disagree with. Green-washing is big business.
Ah yeah I don't disagree with what you're saying, and Gript is as biased as any of them. I just thought it was a talking point was all and I follow the editor, John McGuirk on twitter for his not-very-hot-takes so I see links to the stories often. I disregard as many of them as I read to the end. The idea that wind is a bad thing is misguided too but it's not the infallible thing we are led to believe. The Texas thing is politically driven and distorted from both sides. They were trying to do the right thing with using renewables and the fact they weren't designed for such weather is something to learn from rather than disregard the idea and it's a good point that cold countries can make it work just fine
As long as you understand that there is a clear category difference between an error that consists of claiming a lower value for something that in reality is the minority factor anyway and an "error" (not to say a totally false narrative) that consists of claiming that the minority factor is actually the sole factor. That is an important difference.
I understand the difference and how the media would have led a lot to believe the failure was entirely due to wind energy for political reasons. The NYT is still full of shit though, for political reasons.
Saw this video lately (could be in the conspiracies thread too, given the speaker) detailing the next crisis we will face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGKkXaMfai4 and then today saw this: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/top-us-fuel-pipeline-operator-pushes-recover-cyberattack-2021-05-09/ and another source here: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/colonial-pipeline-hack-claimed-russian-group-darkside-spurs-emergency-rcna878
Now I'm not picking on me oul pal Klaus, because there is a thread for that, but his words did get me thinking about how absolutely up shit creek we would all be in such a situation. Humanity could badly do with coming up with some contingency plans for such an event.
Off the top of my head, there are the energy supplies, probably worldwide shipping, food supply chains, banking and access to funds, this forum (oh god no) and basically anything else we can think of. Have the advances in technology and connectivity made us as weak as a kitten worldwide and is the ubiquity of connection the real achilles heel of mankind? Like we are here for a few posts over the wind energy but it pales in comparison with how absolutely and totally reliant we are on the web, and to an increasing extent, the cloud.
Could be Mad Max time very quickly at a collapse of it all. Anyway, that's the problem, but what would be the solutions to such an issue? Growing one's own food is a start but not easy to get enough for sustenance without supplementing it from the shops. Local co operatives/barter groups are all good but if the banking system was to collapse (and with cash not really being a thing, it would be gone in an instant) what does the one in need have to offer as payment? Won't be able to trade the 75 inch telly or the PS5 for anything useful and can't even burn them for heat or eat them. Prostitution would be an option but only any use for some people, etc.
When one really gets down to thinking about it, technology and especially connectivity has us entirely by the balls and were it ever to collapse we wouldn't all be fucked but almost all of us would be. Imagine some fella owns a shotgun and you have vegetables and no shotgun but his family are starving in front of him... wouldn't be great. So what to do? Some sort of regression back to low tech before it's too late is the only way I can see out of it but no way it will happen. What's anyone else's thoughts?
You might enjoy this read:
https://lulz.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/
Goes into what happens in a SHTF scenario like that.
Quote from: Bigmac on May 10, 2021, 06:45:50 PM
You might enjoy this read:
https://lulz.com/surviving-a-year-of-shtf-in-90s-bosnia-war-selco-forum-thread-6265/
Goes into what happens in a SHTF scenario like that.
Brilliant reading, and I haven't even got it all in yet. The bleakness of it all is astounding.
I think the bit where he steals 500 litres of Rakia when a grenade fucks up a distillery, then trades it, is my favorite.
My favourite part is all of it. How it turned like that and they hadn't a notion what was coming until the last minute. And I bought a pack of lighters today!
Ha ha you're well sorted so!
That was a lethal read. Bleak but straight to the point of it all. Couldn't imagine having to live through something like that.
Definitely a movie in that story.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-cyber-attack-possibly-the-most-significant-ever-on-irish-state-1.4564957
https://youtu.be/jGKkXaMfai4
It doesn't have to actually happen, the threat will be enough for now. Surely some major changes to how we do everything should sort it. Maybe a new normal of some sort..
https://www.weforum.org/projects/cyber-polygon
Higher taxes for the working class and throw more money at it. That will strengthen the security systems and keep us all safe :abbath:
Or make it compulsary for patients to login at their doctors office with their smartphones, to make sure it's really them.
Quote from: Giggles on May 14, 2021, 07:12:51 PM
Higher taxes for the working class and throw more money at it. That will strengthen the security systems and keep us all safe :abbath:
Or make it compulsary for patients to login at their doctors office with their smartphones, to make sure it's really them.
:laugh: Yep that should just about do it!
https://www.mtdmfg.com/news/uk-small-modular-reactor-consortium-led-by-rolls-royce-set-to-create-40000-jobs/
Back to the topic of energy sources, this seems like a good idea. In fact even at the high cost of 2 billion quid each, Ireland could have built 15 or 20 of them with the amount they borrowed and blew in the last 12 months. It feels like there must be some sort of catch I'm missing though.
Also that reminds me of something I saw a few years ago about a very human nature themed problem.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-time_nuclear_waste_warning_messages
I can't think of anything that would deter rather than encourage people to find out but maybe humanity will have learned a few lessons in the next 10,000 years or so.
Watched a very interesting documentary on TnaG about the huge nuclear waste storage bunker in Uppsala Sweden a few years back, dealing with the issue of whether or not to mark the bunker for future generations and if it was going to be marked, what language/signage to use, given the very likely possibility that todays languages and indeed present day human understanding of signs will be long obsolete while the waste in question will be as dangerous as it is today.
I'm dead against nuclear power personally, the plants themselves are ticking time bombs, the companies that run them are filthy with corruption and greed and I find the idea of an industrial byproduct being produced that is toxic for 100,000 years abhorrent.
The idea of Ireland getting involved in nuclear power production puts shivers down my back, we can't organize a proper sewage treatment system, we can't organize a proper water supply system, we can't organize a proper waste management system, our environmental protection legislation and oversight system is a joke and every government department has been corrupted by private business interests. Nuclear power? fuck off!
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on May 21, 2021, 12:19:05 PM
Watched a very interesting documentary on TnaG about the huge nuclear waste storage bunker in Uppsala Sweden a few years back, dealing with the issue of whether or not to mark the bunker for future generations and if it was going to be marked, what language/signage to use, given the very likely possibility that todays languages and indeed present day human understanding of signs will be long obsolete while the waste in question will be as dangerous as it is today.
I'm dead against nuclear power personally, the plants themselves are ticking time bombs, the companies that run them are filthy with corruption and greed and I find the idea of an industrial byproduct being produced that is toxic for 100,000 years abhorrent.
The idea of Ireland getting involved in nuclear power production puts shivers down my back, we can't organize a proper sewage treatment system, we can't organize a proper water supply system, we can't organize a proper waste management system, our environmental protection legislation and oversight system is a joke and every government department has been corrupted by private business interests. Nuclear power? fuck off!
That doc is where I first learned of the problem too. Really interesting stuff. Re the nuclear power, I find it hard to disagree with your points, especially around the Irish situation but I'm still not convinced it's a bad thing in itself. The waste issue hasn't been in any way solved though so that is a serious problem. The point of it being run by shady cunts of companies is fair but unfortunately applies to almost all industry worldwide when we get down to it so I don't feel that's exclusive to nuclear power companies at all. There is a fair bit of shit with the renewables as well, although I am still in favour of them. I really wish that Tesla had revealed his free energy idea before he popped his clogs though, just to see if it was a runner or not. My main issue with the forthcoming green revolution is that it is going to be like so many other things where most will be priced out of everything and nuclear energy would address that situation somewhat in the medium term of the next half century or so.
Greta Thunberg wears disposable masks responsibly.
From what I understand they have found ways to recycle some of the waste back into the plant as a cooling agent which, I think, reduce the output of waste further. Funnily, it seems that nuclear might be the way forward ecologically speaking if they can continue to reduce the amount of waste to negligible levels. I was chatting to a guy last year who was an engineer and had worked in that end of things and he said that because of the few famous disasters we have seen in recent decades, the plants themselves are becoming over- engineered (in a positive way) to make them almost indestructible. It doesn't seem like there will be a single solution to how we manufacture the world's energy and because nuclear is becoming cleaner and is so effective, it'll likely be here to stay. I love the idea of having Ireland completely run on solar, wind and wave energy, but that doesn't look likely to become a reality any time soon. Who knows, though, there might be some new way to harness energy that will revolutionise the whole kit and kaboodle.
I had always thought of nuclear power as a bad thing, and in ways it still is, but the points you make re the advances in plant design and the fact that the world needs powering and it can't be fossil fuels any more makes a case for it. The eco/green movement is like anything anyway, it seems perfectly logical and right on the face of it but it's another money train once it gets looked into so things like the damage of getting lithium out of the earth for batteries (https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/stories/2020/03/lithium-mining-what-you-should-know-about-the-contentious-issue.html I didn't realise how finite that resource was) or using fossil fuels to manufacture solar panels at the expense of things like nuclear or hydrogen engine (probably not the answer but worth a look rather than all-in on one single solution) development etc will be rampant. That kneeling at the altar of profit thing of course applies to everything and not only the green movement and is a large contributing factor to why we might feel like this thread's title. And yeah hopefully some new stuff will be developed at some point, as soon as Bob Lazar's old pals figure out how that thing works!
Here's a beauty from Sky News Australia. Was going to put it in the offended thread but here will do since there's a bit of the greta in it again.
https://rumble.com/vhoz5l-australian-newscaster-makes-mincemeat-out-of-brat-greta-thunberg.html?mref=23gga&mc=8uxj1
Wouldn't get this on RTE.
Ah now, I wouldn't go so far as to say RTE are totally without sweeping statements and non-sequiturs.
Yeah the greta thing was seemingly just wedged in there with the misleading headline. I thought yer man was funny giving out to the kids of australia though. Still can't imagine Brian Dobson coming out with it
Seems to be a growing societal trend among attention seeking parents to have their obnoxious little shits preach to the rest of the world. You see it all of the time in television ads etc.
I'm on the fence in this regard. Do I want to listen to anything a fifteen year old says about anything? No. But then, Greta isn't aimed at me and if her message about ecological awareness is filtering into the minds of her cohort then it might be a good thing for the future.
It hasn't stopped her cohort from buying the environment destroying products they wear, use and post tik tok videos on. Take those away and greta becomes equivalent to the monster under their bed.
Quote from: Blackout on May 28, 2021, 09:29:40 AM
It hasn't stopped her cohort from buying the environment destroying products they wear, use and post tik tok videos on.
It is true that one 15 year old girl hasn't yet managed to take down the titanic Goliath of media and marketing that uses a constant explicit assault of brain-washing techniques to arrive at its objectives. Sky News Australia, of which I knew little before the last year, has proved itself in that time to be on a par for wanton ignorant retardedness with Info Wars. Who runs it again? Oh yeah, that lying dickhead billionaire mogul of the media and marketing world who uses a constant explicit assault of brain-washing techniques to arrive at his objectives.
Dude, you can't accuse Astfgyl of ridiculous conspiracies in one thread and spew a whole load of conspiracies in another when it fits in with your narrative.
Marketing is not a conspiracy, sorry to break it to you. Marketing works, as evidenced by the amount of money the most successful corporations in the world pour into it. QED. Rupert Murdoch is a real life person, and I really am genuinely sorry to have to break that tragic news to you.
Sure all that video amounts to is just some auld lad giving out about the youth of today, "read a book, go outside, get some exercise",same as all the generations before, and will be in the future
Rupert Murdoch is a conspiracy theory?
It's more the "brain washing techniques" I take umbridge with. If I was to accuse the media of brainwashing regarding climate change I'd be quite rightly ridiculed.
The big difference is that the "brain washing techniques" are pretty much an accepted reality. There's even a journal about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology_%26_Marketing
Modern marketing works by hacking your affective emotional responses. The media also does this a lot. Remember Charlie Brooker's Newswipe? It was basically all about that. The difference in what we're talking about is that using these techniques to scare people about climate change is one (bad) thing; using it to sell products no one needs, something that is actually exacerbating climate change, well that's another (worse) thing.
So greta is a tool of Mass Media to enact carbon taxes?
Greta Thunberg is a convicted pederast.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on May 28, 2021, 10:21:37 AM
Rupert Murdoch is a conspiracy theory?
Quote from: open face surgery on May 28, 2021, 11:31:58 AM
Greta Thunberg is a convicted pederast.
These two simple posts have made my day
Jaysus lads it was just a funny video and the old chap has a point. All the kids marching for climate change but most unwilling to put in the hard yards of actually changing their own lifestyle. It's the virtue signalling shite again as I see it. To be honest, all I see with any of it is marketing. Greta Thunberg - marketing, kids marching for climate change - marketing, companies pretending to give a fuck - marketing, governments getting elected on a green ticket - marketing, and so on..
Quote from: Trev on May 28, 2021, 10:17:16 AM
Sure all that video amounts to is just some auld lad giving out about the youth of today, "read a book, go outside, get some exercise",same as all the generations before, and will be in the future
I've been giving out about the youth of today for at least a decade now, so I can empathise with the fella to a degree.
Quote from: Blackout on May 28, 2021, 09:43:37 AM
Dude, you can't accuse Astfgyl of ridiculous conspiracies in one thread and spew a whole load of conspiracies in another when it fits in with your narrative.
Outside of the actual conspiracy thread I started, I can't think of any I've posted.
Quote from: open face surgery on May 28, 2021, 11:31:58 AM
Greta Thunberg is a convicted pederast.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Brilliant, going around giggling like a schoolgirl since I read this.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/27/jefferies-on-the-carbon-challenges-in-electric-vehicle-manufacturing.html
Bit more of what I was getting at around electric cars not being the silver bullets they are presented as. Well not yet anyway, I'm not saying they are a bad thing or anything either just that they are worth casting a critical eye on. Not quite convicted pederast level of a critical eye, but all things marketed to us as "Green" have to be dissected because marketing and profit never sleeps, and there will be a lot of shite to wade through in the next few years as this movement goes through the gears.
I think that electric cars are a step in the right direction but only if they can make the production of electricity clean, green and renewable. So as you say, it's only one part of a much bigger picture and not a silver bullet.
Reforestation on an industrial scale across the world is going to be essential too.
Wonder why the reforestation isn't being pushed as one of the main pillars of carbon capture? In fact, hemp captures quite a bit during its' extremely fast growth cycle and can be used for all sorts of purposes after the fact, such as building materials, biodegradable packaging, and loads of other "green" and renewable applications.
https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/brazil/brazils-jbs-global-meat-processing-operations-paralysed-by-cyber-attack-media/
This one has quite the reach, South America and Australia so far.
What was it that Klaus Schwab was saying about a cyber pandemic? He's got the fucking prescience!
Veganism for all... :abbath:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on May 31, 2021, 08:38:58 PM
Veganism for all... :abbath:
Nah it's grand man, we can eat the bugs, own nothing, have no privacy and be happy!
(https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/075/544/544/original/b0fb7f880beb5ce6.png)
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/science/news/chinese-artificial-sun-fusion-reactor-experiment-2453713
This is interesting.
https://research.noaa.gov/article/ArtMID/587/ArticleID/2764/Coronavirus-response-barely-slows-rising-carbon-dioxide
"The atmospheric burden of CO2 is now comparable to where it was during the Pliocene Climatic Optimum, between 4.1 and 4.5 million years ago, when CO2 was close to, or above 400 ppm."
Indeed, when measured over a scale of a couple of hundred years, we can accurately predict shit on a scale of millions.
These lads are unreal at telling me about the climate of between 4.1 and 4.5 million years ago. It must have been all the coal they were burning back in the day or the cars or some shit. Or maybe nobody has a fucking clue and every discovery leads to a new set of questions? Such as.. How come we see such fluctuation when we measure things on a scale of decades or even centuries or even individual years? Why do we see such disparity? Why then do we assume that the climate of 4.1 to 4.5 million years ago was so stable as to be able to pin it down to chunks of 400 thousand years, and even worse, then use that assumption as a comparison with which to judge today's situation? Is the whole foundation of that statement not built on a house of assumptions?
If you're all fucked and things are as disastrous as it's reckoned, wouldn't it be a good idea to so procreating so more people aren't heading into it? Yes I know, the idea of not having more kids might sound ludicrous, but look at how the one's who have been so far have fucked up the place.
Don't know why anyone would have kids now unless you're well-off. Unless you're in a rich family or have above average intelligence life will be a struggle.
I dunno, tradesmen, who would probably be associated with average (or below?) intelligence, are capable of doing very well for themselves. I'd also say a good upbringing is at least as important as a well-off upbringing to do well.
Hence why "well-off" is another qualification which I had said if you look closelyer at my post.
Ya, I'd largely agree with your first point.
Another argument might be that we need to keep procreating to ensure our survival. I mean that in the sense that the more children are born, and specifically in the developed world where they have advantage, education and dare I say privilege (the little Nazi fucks), the better chance we have of finding solutions to the big problems that face us regarding climate change. Maybe it's too late to reverse a lot of the damage but at least if we continue to breed clever people some alternatives might present themselves.
The not having kids thing is a bit of a non starter anyway. Certainly a portion of society do and probably always have had that outlook and have opted out of having children, but the simple reality is that humans, like all animals, are programmed to pass on their genes. Now, you might propose a Chinese type of solution, but really, who wants to live in that sort of world?
Our only real hope is to trust that science and technology can find solutions that appeal to the masses. And to plant more and more trees. That seems to me like an easy step to take, particularly in wealthy countries that outsource most of the raping of the environment to poorer parts of the world. And who doesn't want more forests? They benefit everyone and everything.
It's kids in the developed world, and their parents, doing the lion's share of the damage though, directly by their own actions and indirectly by propping up the corporations who are the real culprits. Kids in underdeveloped nations may not have much educational advantage, but they do have a minuscule carbon footprint.
I'd happily stop at the one, but you never know! Part of me reckons his world is going to be a pretty grim place, so I would prefer to pour all my energy into preparing him for what may come rather than just pro-creating willy nilly. And anyway, as I always like to remind people, the species, all species eventually, are doomed to extinction, so it's good to be grand with that too. Eat, drink, and be merry!
Quote from: Eoin McLove on June 15, 2021, 05:53:50 PM
Another argument might be that we need to keep procreating to ensure our survival. I mean that in the sense that the more children are born, and specifically in the developed world where they have advantage, education and dare I say privilege (the little Nazi fucks), the better chance we have of finding solutions to the big problems that face us regarding climate change. Maybe it's too late to reverse a lot of the damage but at least if we continue to breed clever people some alternatives might present themselves.
The not having kids thing is a bit of a non starter anyway. Certainly a portion of society do and probably always have had that outlook and have opted out of having children, but the simple reality is that humans, like all animals, are programmed to pass on their genes. Now, you might propose a Chinese type of solution, but really, who wants to live in that sort of world?
Our only real hope is to trust that science and technology can find solutions that appeal to the masses. And to plant more and more trees. That seems to me like an easy step to take, particularly in wealthy countries that outsource most of the raping of the environment to poorer parts of the world. And who doesn't want more forests? They benefit everyone and everything.
The traditional Catholic Family numbers, enough for a GAA team in one family, certainly wasn't sustainable.
Do you mean the Chinese solution of only allowing a couple of kids or no girls, (I think the "no girls" one is gone as the population became top heavy with males).
If planting more trees and appealing to the masses is the last option we're screwed. Apparently according to the Rain Forest Concern an area the size of England and Wales is worth of trees is being cut down from the rain forest https://www.rainforestconcern.org/forest-facts/why-are-rainforests-being-destroyed - Too many people buying shit they don't need off Amazon.
IQ test at 5 years old and if they are below average, kill every second one. You still need heavy lifters.
Destroying the forests was an exceptional lack of foresight worldwide but I feel the wind is blowing in a way where that will be addressed in the near future... with the great cull of humanity.
Quote from: open face surgery on June 15, 2021, 07:35:54 PM
IQ test at 5 years old and if they are below average, kill every second one. You still need heavy lifters.
A man with vision. Bualadh bos.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E38JJSxXoAEpnbX?format=jpg&name=small)
"Made in sizes appropriate for children" :laugh:
So do we cull the customer or the seller?
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 15, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
I dunno, tradesmen, who would probably be associated with average (or below?) intelligence, are capable of doing very well for themselves. I'd also say a good upbringing is at least as important as a well-off upbringing to do well.
Anyone who would associate tradesmen with average or below intelligence is themselves a fucking moron.
fucking hell that's after annoying me rightly, such a stupid fucking statement.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on June 15, 2021, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 15, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
I dunno, tradesmen, who would probably be associated with average (or below?) intelligence, are capable of doing very well for themselves. I'd also say a good upbringing is at least as important as a well-off upbringing to do well.
Anyone who would associate tradesmen with average or below intelligence is themselves a fucking moron.
fucking hell that's after annoying me rightly, such a stupid fucking statement.
I was talking about possible perception, not that that would be my thoughts on the matter. As in the way some people see degrees/diplomas etc as the measure of someone's intellect.
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 15, 2021, 10:27:59 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on June 15, 2021, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 15, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
I dunno, tradesmen, who would probably be associated with average (or below?) intelligence, are capable of doing very well for themselves. I'd also say a good upbringing is at least as important as a well-off upbringing to do well.
Anyone who would associate tradesmen with average or below intelligence is themselves a fucking moron.
fucking hell that's after annoying me rightly, such a stupid fucking statement.
I was talking about possible perception, not that that would be my thoughts on the matter. As in the way some people see degrees/diplomas etc as the measure of someone's intellect.
Ah yeah, I got that man, wasn't suggesting you were a moron.
The idea that there are people (morons) who think like that blows my fucking mind.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on June 15, 2021, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 15, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
I dunno, tradesmen, who would probably be associated with average (or below?) intelligence, are capable of doing very well for themselves. I'd also say a good upbringing is at least as important as a well-off upbringing to do well.
Anyone who would associate tradesmen with average or below intelligence is themselves a fucking moron.
fucking hell that's after annoying me rightly, such a stupid fucking statement.
Who said tradesmen are morons?
Quote from: Blackout on June 16, 2021, 12:08:07 AM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on June 15, 2021, 10:17:45 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on June 15, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
I dunno, tradesmen, who would probably be associated with average (or below?) intelligence, are capable of doing very well for themselves. I'd also say a good upbringing is at least as important as a well-off upbringing to do well.
Anyone who would associate tradesmen with average or below intelligence is themselves a fucking moron.
fucking hell that's after annoying me rightly, such a stupid fucking statement.
Who said tradesmen are morons?
Some moron...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 15, 2021, 06:16:40 PM
It's kids in the developed world, and their parents, doing the lion's share of the damage though, directly by their own actions and indirectly by propping up the corporations who are the real culprits. Kids in underdeveloped nations may not have much educational advantage, but they do have a minuscule carbon footprint.
I'd happily stop at the one, but you never know! Part of me reckons his world is going to be a pretty grim place, so I would prefer to pour all my energy into preparing him for what may come rather than just pro-creating willy nilly. And anyway, as I always like to remind people, the species, all species eventually, are doomed to extinction, so it's good to be grand with that too. Eat, drink, and be merry!
It's swings and roundabouts. There's no quick fix to any of it, but I'm more convinced by the argument that says we need to drag developing countries out of poverty. Unfortunately that will most likely mean more pollution in those parts of the world until they get themselves to a standard of life where it's possible to even consider such concerns as climate change, pollution and the preservation of nature. Until then it's up to the developed world to both help speed along their development through advancements in technology and to look after the natural world too. Without getting woke about it, it is our luck and privilege to live in advanced societies where we can factor these considerations in to our daily lives, so we probably should do as much as we can. And to be fair, I think that on a societal level those shifts in focus are pretty apparent. To take one very simple and hopefully effective example, every town in Ireland seems to be letting wild flowers and grasses flourish over the past couple of years. There are sections left wild in every small town you pass through, so people are effecting change in their daily lives and with a bit of luck, this will impact positively on bee numbers.
I'm quite fond of this wild meadow style thing that is going on of late
Yep, we're fucked...
https://www.thejournal.ie/amazon-investigation-finds-items-marked-destroy-5472781-Jun2021/?section=comment#comments
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on June 23, 2021, 08:09:44 AM
Yep, we're fucked...
https://www.thejournal.ie/amazon-investigation-finds-items-marked-destroy-5472781-Jun2021/?section=comment#comments
Who would have thought there'd be a downside to rampant consumerism?
On another note, here's a story I'd never seen before, and a new potential downside to the US military occupation of Iraq.
Anyone heard of the Fallujah babies? https://theintercept.com/2019/11/25/iraq-children-birth-defects-military/ Imagine how many other things humans are getting up to with scant regard for long term consequence? We're a fuckin mad species.
Here's something that sounds suspiciously optimistic. Many words like "estimate" used, but that's how things go I suppose..
https://phys.org/news/2014-03-ninety-five-cent-world-fish-mesopelagic.html
It's from 2014. I feel that David Attenborough or one of the docs out since then would've covered it if it was fact. Just a thought.
Even if true, the conclusion is a bit like saying, "Who cares about pandas and tigers going extinct? There's shit loads of other mammals doing just great, like rats and bats!"
I said "suspiciously optimistic"!
I mean it could well turn out to be true or false due to the estimated nature of it, and perhaps it's good news for the ocean and means fuck all for humans as well. Good to read something that hints at optimism as well as the regular doom and gloom all the same. There is also the consideration that stories such as this one might convince people that our habits don't need changing, so little wonder the likes of Attenborough wouldn't highlight it too much even if it were to prove true, because there's no doubt the habits need changing!
Was reading there that a single container ship creates the same level of emissions in a year as 50 million cars. Seems like something worth looking at while on the quest for carbon neutrality. How would one solve something like that? Solar powered ships? I was initially thinking maybe buying local (EU in our case) products, but that probably wouldn't work because of the diversity of materials used in pretty much everything and the worldwide trade network needed to facilitate that. How to balance progress with the need to reel it all back in a lot is a real conundrum. Anyway the point being that while we all individually reduce our footprint like good little global citizens, the real elephants in the room such as global trade are possibly not being addressed with the same gusto, and the more things change the more they stay the same in so many ways. Aside from giving out about it though, what solutions have any of you came across for such a thing?
I was thinking about it lately as we get a good bit of advertisement material in the door and that creates a lot waste as well as having to use the paper and other resources to create it in the first place. Then with that you have all the server farms and the power and other resources to keep that running too.
I know not everyone has an internet connection but surely it could be looked at the different demographics, to try and lessen the amount of physical advertisements produced to cut down on waste as I just looking online if I want something and I sure millions of others would be the same. On the other hand it cuts out jobs for people so it's hard to say too.
Images don't get much more apocalyptically foreboding than an oil-fuelled furnace seething at the surface of the Gulf of Mexico:
https://twitter.com/MLopezSanMartin/status/1411059695503261697
Carbon taxes will curtail them fires.
It's mad seeing a fire burning on water.
I think it's great. We have been waiting for too long to see this type of thing. They should leave it burning and turn it into a tourist attraction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGKkXaMfai4
Don't forget Klaus' stark warning and also don't forget the Cyber Polygon exercise the the WEF are running in the next few days. I expect it will be much like the Coronavirus Pandemic exercise that was ran right before the current pandemic situation, which was called Event 201. Amazing foresight from Klaus and the lads every time!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57703836
This sounds fairly ominous
https://english.elpais.com/spain/2021-07-06/spain-drafts-bill-allowing-state-to-mobilize-all-adults-in-times-of-crisis.html
I wonder if it will pass and what do any of the Spanish contingent on here make of it?
And how do we like the idea of the union of state and private business? Well let's be fair that is how it's done anyway through lobbying, but this U.K. chap wants to make a thing of it officially.
Can't think what that puts me in mind of exactly.. it feels like the rebranding of some old idea.. Italy maybe comes to mind I dunno
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/57334fbc-e34d-11eb-a821-58982b1c936d
Are you all ready for the "wobbling moon". Every 18.6 years apparently, so must of us have experienced it a couple of times. For the record, I'm calling bullshit right now.
And I'm calling climate lockdowns and hard surveillance of personal activities right now, too.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/14/wobbling-moon-will-cause-devastating-worldwide-flooding-2030s/
This is the beginning of some hard, hard bullshit.
Quote from: astfgyl on June 26, 2021, 12:07:24 PM
Was reading there that a single container ship creates the same level of emissions in a year as 50 million cars.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/28469/carnival-cruise-ship-fleet-pollutes-almost-10-times-more-than-all-cars-in-europe-study
The fuel ships use is bunker oil, very dirty ->
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil
Transport & Environment estimated that about 50,000 people a year in Europe die prematurely because of pollution from the shipping sector as a whole. This primarily affects people who live in harbour cities.
"reviewed the emissions of 77 cruise ships (almost the entire fleet in European waters), concluding that only one of them, AIDAnova, was not powered by highly polluting heavy fuel, but relatively 'clean' liquefied natural gas (LGN), which reduces NOx and particulate emissions by about 80%. However, even though shifting all cruise ships to LGN would be very beneficial to human health, LGN also contains methane, which is a very potent greenhouse gas and would increase global warming significantly."
So basically 50k die from pollution from that but don't dare convert it to gas because global warming, it might kill someone ::)
Quote from: The Butcher on July 15, 2021, 09:18:56 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on June 26, 2021, 12:07:24 PM
Was reading there that a single container ship creates the same level of emissions in a year as 50 million cars.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/28469/carnival-cruise-ship-fleet-pollutes-almost-10-times-more-than-all-cars-in-europe-study
The fuel ships use is bunker oil, very dirty ->
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil
Transport & Environment estimated that about 50,000 people a year in Europe die prematurely because of pollution from the shipping sector as a whole. This primarily affects people who live in harbour cities.
"reviewed the emissions of 77 cruise ships (almost the entire fleet in European waters), concluding that only one of them, AIDAnova, was not powered by highly polluting heavy fuel, but relatively 'clean' liquefied natural gas (LGN), which reduces NOx and particulate emissions by about 80%. However, even though shifting all cruise ships to LGN would be very beneficial to human health, LGN also contains methane, which is a very potent greenhouse gas and would increase global warming significantly."
So basically 50k die from pollution from that but don't dare convert it to gas because global warming, it might kill someone ::)
I didn't know that in such detail but it certainly highlights why we are all fucked. It's the sort of crazy logic-that-defies-all-known-forms-of-logic and it defines the modern era.
We are all fucked.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 15, 2021, 09:03:41 PM
Are you all ready for the "wobbling moon". Every 18.6 years apparently, so must of us have experienced it a couple of times. For the record, I'm calling bullshit right now.
And I'm calling climate lockdowns and hard surveillance of personal activities right now, too.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/07/14/wobbling-moon-will-cause-devastating-worldwide-flooding-2030s/
This is the beginning of some hard, hard bullshit.
One of the authors lamenting how the media have latched onto the "moon wobble" aspect of the paper:
https://twitter.com/bhamlington/status/1415848899701481472
QuoteDespite best efforts, unfortunate that the "moon wobble" has become the narrative in many places as opposed to the impact of the combined drivers, including global warming.
Moon Wobble tax imminent.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 16, 2021, 01:55:35 AM
I didn't know that in such detail but it certainly highlights why we are all fucked. It's the sort of crazy logic-that-defies-all-known-forms-of-logic and it defines the modern era.
We are all fucked.
You would think it would be quite obvious to use gas when you can't use solar/wind etc as its the cleanest fossil fuel. Even if it's just for transport that batteries can't replace.
I dislike a lot of greenie ideas that go beyond pollution control like how they'd prefer everyone living to work in apartments with no cars etc - in the western world this turns into tenements - rent slaves - tin canned apartments - coffin beds etc.
There are a few things that just did it for me with the green movement - One was that there are literally millions of deaths from pollution a year but no let's focus on co2, there is climate change, absolutely but check out the ipcc reports themselves ->
The telling things are a) the change since reliable records - They give an estimate with large error margins and this is for KNOWN data. How the f#@k do they make a prediction when they aren't sure of what's happened?!
B) Their predictions are shite , again with big error bands - Also even their own models say that a certain amount of warming is natural
People jump on climate change to blame everything but we've built out our towns and cities, increased farmland, terraformed, that all has an impact on drainage, rainfall generated, albedo shifts and temperature.
And population is something nobody wants to talk about, our native populations are decreasing but we have massive migration across the western world preventing it from dropping and then there is the 3rd world dilemma, bit like Brazil and the rainforest, they'll use fossil fuels to fight poverty because they've got bigger day to day problems...do we penalise them for that? Europe cleared its forests, Brazil doing the same
Maybe if it was the other way around the forests of Europe would have been called the lungs of the world instead of the Amazon rainforest. Just pointing out the hypocrisy there as the greens are full of it.
Good points there. The solution won't arise with the way things are going unless some sort of game changer comes along.
Maybe we can borrow our way out of it..: https://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock
Almost 60 Trillion. How does anyone have that much to lend and what is it guaranteed by? Now there is something unsustainable for sure. Came across it earlier and it boggled the mind
Found a class article a few days ago about AI and stuff from a lad who knew what he was saying and knew it well and I think it will be a discussion we will only have when it's too late among the populace. Just sticking this here to remind myself to dig it out of the laptop tomorrow
Here we are: https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/
It's a long read but it's good food for thought. It's also 20 years old so interesting to wonder how things have moved on since then, or not.
https://www.mic.com/p/these-6-countries-are-most-likely-to-survive-a-climate-change-caused-societal-collapse-82704326
Here's more consideration given to the idea of how fucked we might be
Greens freaking out over latest IPCC report which will spur politicians onto policies that will divide and conquer, class wars incoming. Meanwhile others will still laugh their way to islands via private jet for birthday parties.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/08/07/stars-arrive-on-marthas-vineyard-for-barack-obamas-pared-back-60th-birthday-party/amp/
Ok forget about climate change. Robots will doom us all ->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF4DML7FIWk
Not the venue you'd normally expect to see write-ups like this:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10104511/Climate-change-99-9-studies-agree-global-warming-mainly-caused-humans.html
What I'd like to know is what caused the other few billion years of climate change?
Wasn't humans anyway.
And the 99.9% agreement thing is just like 9 out of 10 dentists recommend whatever toothpaste they are paid to recommend.
So 99% of the scientists who haven't been censored agree with the gravy train. Good to know.
I'm all on board with cleaning up our act as a species but I'm not buying 99% of this shit. I want clean air clean food clean water. Carbon credits will not buy these things.
Look at the hypocrisy of the cop26. How are the delegates getting to the conference? By bicycle? No it's private jets and cavalcades all the way. No green pass needed either because that's only for serf class. Any reason they couldn't have done it online?
Nah me neither
Everyone, but especially ecology activists, know that cop26, etc., are a crock of shit. There are examples from the past of dominant species causing climate change, I provided one before. Humans are now, more so than ever, the dominant species on earth. Hence, if there was a time at which humans could cause climate change, now is that time.
I don't think we have no effect. That'd be silly. I do however think that the sort of thing being done to combat this is only designed to line the right pockets and look good. Flying is bad unless one is rich. Fossil fuels are bad unless one is China etc. People are also going to have to accept that no matter what we do, climates will change anyway and we could be as good as gold and still go into an ice age or whatever the opposite is called. So clean green yes indeed but let's not kid ourselves as to how this is all going to go. Serf class all the way. I think even the lockdowns were taken as a practice run to see could people be stopped moving but I don't want to get back into all that.
Anyway if we all join the metaverse we'll be fine we won't have to go anywhere or do anything carbon production related
We are making a dog's mickey out of the planet, there's no doubt about that, irrespective of to what extent climate change is caused by human action.
Oh 100 percent. There's lots we could be doing not to make shit of the place and we have failed miserably so far. Sustainable production, reforestation, end of single use plastics etc will all have a price but compared to simply paying for carbon credits, those things would help. Agriculture is a big one pesticides fertilisers etc. Not against GM in principle either but we'd want to be careful to rotate crops etc. Seasonal produce and crop rotation based on stuff that grows well in the climate and so much more can be done but rather than punish the end user, the massive corporations could shave a little profit off the top and things would be doable. We're competing with human nature though it will be tough
I have a diesel car, drink fizzy water in plastic bottles everyday and often forget me bag for life for the shopping so as much of a prick as anyone else, but these jet setting big mouth entertainment industry arseholes, and don't even get me started on the ruling classes, these people are the worst kind of lip service hypocrites imaginable.
I wonder if all of these youngsters protesting on the streets about climate changes realise the implications of enacting full bans on fossil fuels etc. Are they willing to risk mass starvation through slow production of food? Lack of technology produced by these fuels such as smart phones etc. There has to be more to the discussion than"but muh climate change".
Quote from: Blackout on November 05, 2021, 06:23:23 PM
I wonder if all of these youngsters protesting on the streets about climate changes realise the implications of enacting full bans on fossil fuels etc. Are they willing to risk mass starvation through slow production of food? Lack of technology produced by these fuels such as smart phones etc. There has to be more to the discussion than"but muh climate change".
You're right. There does need to be way more discussion. But at least they're protesting about something. There is a plethora of changes we could make to enact proper change. Cunts at the top is the problem.
I think the issue is one of cause and effect. There are big changes that need to happen but they all come with a more immediate cost and probably not to us sitting comfortably in the west. Eradicating the use of fossil fuels tomorrow would be fantastic for the atmosphere and even our own well being, but where does it leave developing countries who rely on them too and have no alternatives in place? There's an argument that the west should make these changes while allowing the poorer nations to catch up to us, and that might well mean they have to use the same means as we have used for 150 years. I suppose the hope would be that when we figure out how to harness energy in a fast effective and renewable way we would then share that technology with those countries... but sure... money and power, bro!
To quote George Carlin in his bit about the planet:
"The planet is fine, the people are fucked"
Re third world, etc., interesting comparison graphic of CO2 production according to bottom 50%, average, and top 10% of population by wealth and by nation:
https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1456709246721171458
Note particularly that the bottom 50% per household average in the US is greater than the top 10% per household average in China.
Saw one of the targets for us was 1 million EVs by 2030. That's roughly half the fleet now? That would mean most cars sold if not all sold between now and then would need to be electric. We know what will happen once petrol and diesel cars die off (tax cliff) so obviously electric cars will eventually go up via tax or income tax will go up but a tax somewhere will have to make up for it.
I was hopeful about when solar panels are combined with improved battery tech that would mean selling back to grid etc but I see in Oz once enough people have home generation they wont be able to sell back to the grid - talking here about CHARGING people for generating extra solar, all because the big electricity players are crying about their plants having to shut down for a few hours at times because there is no demand for them/not enough profits ->
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-25/australians-with-rooftop-solar-charged-export-electricity-grid/100026336
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-03-30/solar-power-electricity-should-owners-pay-to-supply-grid/100035198
Quote from: astfgyl on July 31, 2021, 03:11:45 PM
Here we are: https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/
It's a long read but it's good food for thought. It's also 20 years old so interesting to wonder how things have moved on since then, or not.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/29/yeah-were-spooked-ai-starting-to-have-big-real-world-impact-says-expert?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
All this eco friendly, sustainability, renewable energy talk is fine but it's meaningless unless countries invest in nuclear power in a serious way. If you want to curb emissions while keeping civilization on the road it's the only game in town.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-cant-solve-climate-change-without-nuclear-power/
And we need to drive for fusion as well, never mind the naysayers, the prize is too great (and too urgently needed) not to pass up on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
Nuclear needs to somehow rebrand itself for the masses to consider it. There's so much fear around it but by all accounts it really does seem to be the only option. Maybe in time wind, water and solar energy technology will reach a standard that it can replace nuclear, but if we are as short on time as the experts say, then we don't really have time to keep burning fossil fuels while we get that end of things right.
I've no idea about fusion or its side effects.
Fusion, in theory, would create energy without the nasty secondary effects of fission, but there is no breakthrough on how to perform it without consuming more energy than is generated. That's a primary school précis, I'll leave it to the boys in the know to expand on it.
Well that sounds like a fundamental fuck up :laugh:
Cucklife 101.....
https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2021/1112/1259424-virtue-club/
It's a real pity they are forcing you at gunpoint to go to this club, the commie scum. Oh no, look at that- it's not mandatory! What a relief.
Sex and fighting is always better after 20 pints...
Lads I know I'm a bit late to the party here but trust me climate change is a load of bollox.
There was fucking ice age before and there was no pollution then.
But if I am wrong, my carbon footprint is fuck all anyway so I take no blame. It's all China and India's fault anyway.
Just my two cents.
Quote from: Nixer on November 12, 2021, 11:25:23 AM
But if I am wrong, my carbon footprint is fuck all anyway so I take no blame. It's all China and India's fault anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 06, 2021, 03:10:14 PM
Re third world, etc., interesting comparison graphic of CO2 production according to bottom 50%, average, and top 10% of population by wealth and by nation:
https://twitter.com/GerryHassan/status/1456709246721171458
Note particularly that the bottom 50% per household average in the US is greater than the top 10% per household average in China.
As to whether we are all fucked, well, clearly the powers that be really are taking the absolute piss: COP28 to be held in the heart of the very symbol of resource mismanagement; Dubai/UAE.
https://www.reuters.com/business/cop/dubai-ruler-says-uae-host-cop28-climate-conference-2023-2021-11-11/
To the OP: yes, yes we are....
https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/science-health/954749/first-woman-in-the-world-diagnosed-with-climate-change
So no flights no commuting for a bulk of last year - Emissions declined in 2020 by 5.9 per cent mainly due to Covid-19 ->
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-s-carbon-emissions-decline-by-almost-6-in-2020-due-to-pandemic-1.4470387
I just don't see how things can be reversed unless we all go back to the stone age...we are 0.1% of total global emissions. We already have in Ireland 1 in 3 struggling people facing high/extreme bill stress over crippling fuel costs, while a staggering 25% did not run heaters at winter (One Big Switch poll).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkNgjJgXsAEB7N6?format=png&name=small)
Quote from: Cosmic_Equilibrium on November 11, 2021, 01:18:58 PM
And we need to drive for fusion as well, never mind the naysayers, the prize is too great (and too urgently needed) not to pass up on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER
Interesting critique of ITER and everyone else involved in fusion research's manner of communicating their current progress and potential here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY
(sponsored content part at beginning easy to skip since it's indexed)
Saw Boris talking about Peppa Pig World.
Fuck me, not even George Bush got on like that.
Quote from: The Butcher on November 15, 2021, 04:01:59 PM
So no flights no commuting for a bulk of last year - Emissions declined in 2020 by 5.9 per cent mainly due to Covid-19 ->
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-s-carbon-emissions-decline-by-almost-6-in-2020-due-to-pandemic-1.4470387
I just don't see how things can be reversed unless we all go back to the stone age...we are 0.1% of total global emissions. We already have in Ireland 1 in 3 struggling people facing high/extreme bill stress over crippling fuel costs, while a staggering 25% did not run heaters at winter (One Big Switch poll).
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkNgjJgXsAEB7N6?format=png&name=small)
Don't worry, Eamon Ryan will find a way to tax us out of the problem. Think positive about it. Every time a poor person dies it reduces their carbon footprint by 100%. I swear not one of those toads in Dail Eireann have ever had to live on a budget.
Bad Alexa, bad.....
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/amazons-alexa-fixed-after-it-tells-10-year-old-girl-to-touch-plug-socket-with-penny-12505222
If you thought you hated crypto culture before...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiHopGox5cU
This is 100% not satire, btw.
Like a cross between Jurassic Park and Fyre Fest. I look forward to the documentary.
I wouldn't be one to wish ill on anybody but if this shit is real, and I have major doubts about it, I wouldn't mind if a tsunami wiped that island off the face of the planet.
I'd say it could be an elaborate scam. It's something that I will only ever see from the sidelines anyway so bring on the next phase.
Just show me where that big RED button is. I'll press it....
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-should-allowed-womb-22270768.amp
"This NFT is a one of one edition of the physical item and does not include the physical item."
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jan/25/julian-lennon-to-auction-nft-of-paul-mccartneys-notes-for-hey-jude
Maybe I could auction an NFT of my amusement and disdain for NFTs.
"This NFT is a one of one edition of the cognitive state and does not include the cognitive state."
QuoteI've been collecting these personal items for about 30 years, and I was getting a bit fed up with them being locked away in a vault, where I've had to keep them because I didn't want them to get damaged.
So instead he's going to take a few photos of them, and then they go back in the vault?
It's a bit like the old ebay ploy of sending you a picture of the actual item...except you know what you're getting in this case...crazy stuff...
Quote from: Trev on January 26, 2022, 08:29:47 AM
QuoteI've been collecting these personal items for about 30 years, and I was getting a bit fed up with them being locked away in a vault, where I've had to keep them because I didn't want them to get damaged.
So instead he's going to take a few photos of them, and then they go back in the vault?
I was wondering about that too. Who fuckin' knows.
Joe Rogan podcast in the firing line again this week, this time in the form of Jordon Peterson talking complete and utter hoop about climate change:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2022/01/jordan-peterson-called-out-over-climate-change-claims-made-on-joe-rogan-podcast.html
Yeah, the two wee clips I saw were utterly off the wall. Not even in the usual "I disagree with JP on most points" way, but more like he's coming undone at the mental seams. His claim about climate is the equivalent of saying, "You can't make a map of the world, because the world is everything, so to make a map of it, you'd have to put everything in it." But the bible clip a mate sent is even more surreal. Genuinely think he hasn't quite finished his therapy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt9K6kmpx44
:-X
Never really knew anything about Jordan Peterson.
Had a look on his Instagram there.
Seems like a right fuckin tool who loves the sound of his own voice.
Jordan "lobster something something" Peterson.
Ya, not a fan either.
Just saw someone post that they were cancelling their Spotify in support of Neil Young's stand. Unbelievable fuckin spastic. Sad really.
Yeah, quite a few people are apparently cancelling their Spotify. I'd say it's a compounding of various factors: their investment in the military industrial complex and lack of investment in, y'know, music. If anyone is actually deleting it only because of the Joe Rogan COVID stuff, well, yeah, that's a bit of a "Why now?" from me. But I hate Spotify, so whatever the individual reasons, it's all good!
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2022, 06:03:54 PM
Jordan "lobster something something" Peterson.
A withering, devastating critique.
Nevertheless, JP does not look or sound healthy at all in that clip posted above. Hard to know what he's on about.
As for Neil Young, why did he delete his open letter? I thought he sold the rights, or some of them, to his choons last year? So can he pull them?
It seems he is being influenced by the media portrayal of Joe Rogan, because he hasn't given any concrete examples of 'misinformation'.
Spotify don't censor to anywhere near the same extent that other insidious tech giants do, so fair play for that at least. Just sing your songs and shut the fuck up Neil.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on January 28, 2022, 07:30:42 AM
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2022, 06:03:54 PM
Jordan "lobster something something" Peterson.
A withering, devastating critique.
I watched two of his talks years ago. One was about his 12 points and i was like is there people who actually need these points. Second talk he went on a ramble about lobsters. So if for some reason Peterson makes your life better fair enough, and i don't get the hysteria piled at him but what hes peddling aint for me. He debated Stephen Fry didn't he. That was at least watchable.
I've found a bit of Petersons stuff interesting, never really enough though to look more into him, but the few clips I've seen from that Rogan podcast are just odd. He definitely didn't seem like he was completely together
Quote from: Caomhaoin on January 28, 2022, 07:30:42 AM
It seems he is being influenced by the media portrayal of Joe Rogan, because he hasn't given any concrete examples of 'misinformation'.
Plenty of concrete examples were given in another open letter to Spotify signed by a couple hundred scientists about a week ago. Could be that this got Young's attention. There has been certainly absolutely no lack of Rogan talking shit about, first COVID then the vaccine, over the last two years. If you want examples, they're easy to find. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, wha'!
I don't know how people have managed to turn this into Neil Young trying to 'censor' Joe Rogan, he just doesn't want his music on the same platform as the shite Rogan peddles.
Neil Young survived polio when he was a kid, he lived because of a vaccine, if he doesn't want to share a platform with a guy who gets paid 100's of millions to tell morons a horse dewormer can be used to treat covid, then that's up to him.
I haven't listened to Rogan since he went to Spotify and it sounds like he's gone sideways on the whole Covid thing, but influencing people? People can make up their own minds about Covid, surely? Even his apparently moronic crowd... his show was great when I used to pick through it and he introduced me to a wide range of interesting characters. Neil Young not wanting to "share a platform" (what an utterly meaningless phrase) is fucking pathetic. As if all of the bands and podcasters on Spotify are in some way contaminated by "sharing a platform" with someone whose opinion they don't like on a show they probably don't even watch. Such a fucking baby. The cunt should have his polio shoe jammed in his fucking tuneless ear :laugh: :laugh:
I bet poor oul Neil burnt all his Harry Potter books too, the fucking muppet. Jesus Christ.
Look out, it's the ALT RIGHT!
Yeah people can make up their own minds on Covid, and Neil Young made up his. A lot of people very offended someone dare disagree with Joe Rogan :laugh:.
As I said above, I would absolutely love it if by some kind of chaotic butterfly effect it all snowballs and Spotify crashes and burns. That won't happen, but I would love to see it if it did. So fair play to Neil Young: he didn't just tweet or piss and moan, he did something. Not much of a something, but still an actual act, reminding people that actual action is an option. Don't forget that somewhere behind all this is the fact that Spotify, who built themselves up by stomping on the backs of musicians and giving them nothing in return, then turned around and gave more money to Joe Rogan than they had given to any artist. That got a lot of bad blood churning. Now, if beyond that, he's using his 100 million dollar platform to vulcanize idiots, not only with bullshit science, but with the idea that believing in bullshit science actually makes them, like Rogan, "critical thinkers", jesus, please yes, get the marshmallows out and burn it all down. Why the fuck not?
*double post*
Quote from: ldj on January 28, 2022, 09:55:23 AM
I don't know how people have managed to turn this into Neil Young trying to 'censor' Joe Rogan, he just doesn't want his music on the same platform as the shite Rogan peddles.
Neil Young survived polio when he was a kid, he lived because of a vaccine, if he doesn't want to share a platform with a guy who gets paid 100's of millions to tell morons a horse dewormer can be used to treat covid, then that's up to him.
That horse dewormer accusation that CNN shrieked about and that you repeat here has been shown to be, at best, a malevolent twisting of facts.
He has made missteps talking about this topic, no doubt about it, but his podcast is being dismissed wholesale because of it, which is unfair. It's, for the most part, a great listen.
Whatever ivermectin is, it is at best a placebo against COVID. I agree that liberal media's spinning of it as a horse dewormer wasn't helpful, but the reason it wasn't helpful is precisely because that twisting detracted from the only important fact: it is not a treatment against COVID, as Rogan claimed... while filling himself up on monoclonal antibodies and everything else modern medicine had to offer, as long as it wasn't the vaccine.
Yeah, the hullabaloo was that it was spun as a non-human medication (for what of a less clunky turn of phrase) and he gleefully made CNN look like cunts over it. I actually felt sorry for the lemon who came on to the show about it.
God almighty, my kingdom for COVID and vaccinations to be out of the public sphere forever.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 28, 2022, 10:16:27 AM
As I said above, I would absolutely love it if by some kind of chaotic butterfly effect it all snowballs and Spotify crashes and burns. That won't happen, but I would love to see it if it did. So fair play to Neil Young: he didn't just tweet or piss and moan, he did something. Not much of a something, but still an actual act, reminding people that actual action is an option. Don't forget that somewhere behind all this is the fact that Spotify, who built themselves up by stomping on the backs of musicians and giving them nothing in return, then turned around and gave more money to Joe Rogan than they had given to any artist. That got a lot of bad blood churning. Now, if beyond that, he's using his 100 million dollar platform to vulcanize idiots, not only with bullshit science, but with the idea that believing in bullshit science actually makes them, like Rogan, "critical thinkers", jesus, please yes, get the marshmallows out and burn it all down. Why the fuck not?
I don't know about vulcanizing idiots. You will always have a percentage of the population who move against the grain of whatever is deemed the mainstream. As if Joe Rogan is warping the minds of his listeners and brainwashing them into his line of thinking. I have no interest in his mad diet theories or his opinion on Covid- he's a fucking presenter! His strength as an interviewer is that he has no problem interviewing a wide range of guests with expertise in areas he knows fuck all about. Simple as that really.
Your points about Spotify are spot on. They are a leech but they offered Rogan 100 million to get him on their DREADED PLATFORM and he'd have been a fucking mad man to pass it up.
And as for an 80 year old man crying about "sharing a platform" with someone whose opinions are conflicting with his own... he's a baby. I absolutely cannot take that attitude seriously in any way.
Edit. Here's hoping Spotify have to cough up 200 million to buy him out of his contract. Saps :laugh:
That sums it up for me as well. The onus lies on the people that are heavily invested in what comes out of his mouth, not him. He is a comedian and fight commentator, not a fuckin dictator. I really can't understand this madness. Many other media outlets have openly lied for decades. Nothing will change. Make your own mind up.
I saw that he came off stage to Keep on Rocking in the Free World the other night. Tip of the hat to that move anyway.
Joe Rogan has actual disciples. Just as Jordan Peterson does. Many, many, many of them. People listen to them. People think they know what they're talking about more than other people who actually know what they're talking about. So yeah, Joe Rogan absolutely is influencing the minds of a certain not insignificant proportion of his tens of millions of listeners. Sure just look at comments under clips on YouTube and see how many thousands of likes the most sycophantic ones get. It is fact that Rogan exercises influence and that there are people who wait to see what he has to say about the latest issues. To what extent does he cater his views to his and his team's identification of their key demographic? Potentially to quite a large extent, in which case, it's even worse, but totally in keeping with how the rest of media works.
And I don't know why you're saying Neil Young is crying. He saw one thing he could do to annoy Spotify, and he did it. You sound a bit like a top hat wearing gentlemen saying the Suffragettes or the Irish Republican Brotherhood are "crying".
Don't get me started on the suffragettes, old bean...
One thing I've learned is that reading the comments after something you've enjoyed listening to generally yields bad results. There will always be the sycophantic set, there will always be those who feel like minor celebrities by saying the right thing on social media and getting likes, and there will always always always be a portion of the population who are against whatever the mainstream is doing. Whether it's music or film or sport or politics or you name it. Does his occasional foray into weird conspiracy theories appeal to those people? No doubt. But for the thousands of people who go along with that there are surely many thousands more who just roll their eyes and focus on what his show is actually about- interesting interviews.
I didn't get the impression Young was sticking it to Spotify, rather virtue signaling about Rogan's anti vax position. Who gives a shit what you think, old man. Fuck up and sing your songs!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 28, 2022, 09:48:12 AM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on January 28, 2022, 07:30:42 AM
It seems he is being influenced by the media portrayal of Joe Rogan, because he hasn't given any concrete examples of 'misinformation'.
Plenty of concrete examples were given in another open letter to Spotify signed by a couple hundred scientists about a week ago. Could be that this got Young's attention. There has been certainly absolutely no lack of Rogan talking shit about, first COVID then the vaccine, over the last two years. If you want examples, they're easy to find. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH, wha'!
First they said it was 270 doctors signed the open the letter. Then it was discoverd that only 87 of them were actual doctors the rest were PHD students, veterinaries and one was even a podcast host :laugh:
More likely Young got a nice little cash injection for this little tantrum. Great to see it backfiring on him.
Quote from: ldj on January 28, 2022, 09:55:23 AM
I don't know how people have managed to turn this into Neil Young trying to 'censor' Joe Rogan, he just doesn't want his music on the same platform as the shite Rogan peddles.
Neil Young survived polio when he was a kid, he lived because of a vaccine, if he doesn't want to share a platform with a guy who gets paid 100's of millions to tell morons a horse dewormer can be used to treat covid, then that's up to him.
Young asked for Joe to be removed or he was leaving the platform that is censorship no matter what way you spin it.
Quote from: mickO))) on January 28, 2022, 10:56:14 AM
First they said it was 270 doctors signed the open the letter. Then it was discoverd that only 87 of them were actual doctors the rest were PHD students, veterinaries and one was even a podcast host :laugh:
I think possibly you mean that only 87 of them were Medical Doctors. Many more of them are PhD holding professors or associate professors of things like epidemiology and immunology for which an MD qualification is not required. How many cackling lol emojis does that explainer buy me??
https://spotifyopenletter.wordpress.com/2022/01/10/an-open-letter-to-spotify/
I don't even agree with everything they said, or how they've said it, but the letter does sum up pretty much everything someone could have found objectionable in Rogan's podcasts over the last couple of years.
Quote from: mickO))) on January 28, 2022, 10:56:14 AMMore likely Young got a nice little cash injection for this little tantrum. Great to see it backfiring on him.
An (imagined) cash injection from who? And how has it backfired on him? Even adopting the most cynical view possible, people have been talking about and sharing more Neil Young music over the last two days than over the previous two years.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 28, 2022, 11:22:50 AM
Quote from: mickO))) on January 28, 2022, 10:56:14 AM
First they said it was 270 doctors signed the open the letter. Then it was discoverd that only 87 of them were actual doctors the rest were PHD students, veterinaries and one was even a podcast host :laugh:
I think possibly you mean that only 87 of them were Medical Doctors. Many more of them are PhD holding professors or associate professors of things like epidemiology and immunology for which an MD qualification is not required. How many cackling lol emojis does that explainer buy me??
https://spotifyopenletter.wordpress.com/2022/01/10/an-open-letter-to-spotify/
I don't even agree with everything they said, or how they've said it, but the letter does sum up pretty much everything someone could have found objectionable in Rogan's podcasts over the last couple of years.
Quote from: mickO))) on January 28, 2022, 10:56:14 AMMore likely Young got a nice little cash injection for this little tantrum. Great to see it backfiring on him.
An (imagined) cash injection from who? And how has it backfired on him? Even adopting the most cynical view possible, people have been talking about and sharing more Neil Young music over the last two days than over the previous two years.
The news headline for the letter a few weeks ago was spun in a way that 270 top doctors were calling him out for misinformation which is not the case.
It has backfired because Young has been removed from the platform and Joe is still there. I have said on here before I am not Joes biggest fan he has said a lot of things I disagree with in the past on a wide range of topics including MMA.
If all Joe is spreading is misinformation then why does he need to be censored? Are people not able to make up their own minds on things anymore? If the science we are getting from the experts contradicts what Joe and others who have been censored are saying would it not make more sense to just leave them be and let them dig their own graves?
As for the cash injection sorry I misspoke it wouldn't be like big pharma to do anything underhand now would it.
Spotify will most likely never get rid of Joe as I am sure his contract is ironclad since I would imagine he anticipated issues like this coming up once he moved over.
For all their scientific qualifications, I think the signers of that letter were possibly naive enough to think Spotify might do something about Rogan. Personally, I don't at all think that Neil Young, with all his decades of experience of the cuntery of the music industry, expected them to do anything other than what they have done.
The best joke Joe Rogan ever came up with is calling himself a comedian, he's about as funny as getting yer cock caught in a vice.
Anyone that would pay any heed to anything the cunt has to say is an even bigger gobshite than he is.
I agree. His comedy is awful. But he has his strengths none the less.
He's an idiot.
I see Joni Mitchell has also pulled her stuff off Spotify. I doubt that many Spotify users have ever heard of her TBH. Spotify's market value dropped by 4 billion overnight, apparently.
Apparently she has almost 4 million monthly listeners. Rogan I think has 11 million average for his podcast, so it's more, but not exactly dwarfing her. Frampton also chimed in his approval of Young's move. Be interesting to see if anyone born after 1960 does anything, with all their regular high and mighty tweeting "action"
11 v 4 is significantly in excess of 'more'.
Young has/had 6.2 million monthly listeners. Not bad for artists of their vintage. Probably quite a lot of crossover between Mitchell's and Young's listeners, so can't just add them together for a grand total, but still, considering how much was paid to get Rogan, it makes it clearly not nothing that at least over half as many people as listen to him are now put in a situation where they're being obliged (rightly or wrongly) to consider their Spotify subscription if they wish to continue with their regular listening habits.
Fair enough, but grandstanding over a tiny proportion of TJRE podcast episodes to the extent that they are boycotting Spotify? NSBM, nazi punk and various shady 'commentators' are widely available to whinge about, rather than a podcast host who loves 12 skinners and pull ups spraffing a bit of bullshit about coronavirus vaccines. He's hardly denying the holocaust.
I can understand why people dislike Spotify (they could pay a bit more for one thing), but there would be even more reason for antipathy if they even compromised on, let alone gave in to this nonsense.
But isn't Rogan's 11m per podcast? He sees to release a few podcasts a week so completely dwarfs Young and Mitchell combined.
Saw someone made a link between Young and Pfizer. Seemingly Hipgnosis bought 50% of Young's catalogue in recent times and they have connections to a company run by an ex-ceo of Pfizer. Think that was it anyway. Weaponised autism.
As I said above, I guess it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Not only did Spotify give more money to this lad than they've ever given to actual creators of music, but the lad in question is pissing off some of those creators. They saw a thing they could do to piss off a company who has never done anything to endear itself to their primary interest group (musicians), and they did it. Good for them. It would be nice if they weren't making it *all* about COVID when they talk about it, but hey, nothing's perfect in the world and it is great to see Spotify get a kick up the arse reminder of who they actually rely on. Two musicians, well past their prime, nevertheless succeeding in shaking the Goliath of modern music cuntery.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 29, 2022, 03:28:24 PM
Saw someone made a link between Young and Pfizer. Seemingly Hipgnosis bought 50% of Young's catalogue in recent times and they have connections to a company run by an ex-ceo of Pfizer. Think that was it anyway. Weaponised autism.
The link is via Blackstone, who have their finger in every pie, including Spotify.
I'm on the fence about the whole Neil Young thing. I'm very much anticensorship but, for sure, people have died due to Rogan's antivax stuff. So, what do you do? I dunno. Neil Young has always come across as a fella with integrity so in one way I admire his stance and I can see why he did it. But, does it come off a bit stroppish? Possibly.
I've only dipped into the JRE here and there so wouldn't consider myself a fan. He's clever enough to run a good show but not clever or informed enough to be giving advice on topics he has no real knowledge of imo. I wouldn't take anything he said on board outside of MMA and as I'm not a fan of that, well..
And as he's already mired in controversy, he probably wasn't too wise coming out with the following...
"Controversial podcast host Joe Rogan said he thinks it's strange for people to use "Black" as a descriptor for Black people "unless you are talking to someone who is like 100% African from the darkest place."
Here, he bullshits about MMA on a far grander scale than he ever has about the virus. He's also a shit colour commentator.
Yeah anything that fucks with Spotify isn't a bad thing, it would really take a current artist the level of Taylor Swift or Adele or something to have an effect though, one of those artists that has a weird almost cult like fanbase lol.
The thing with Rogan is, I don't think he should be 'cancelled' or de-platformed, I just wish people that listened to it actually did research on stuff before adopting shite they hear on his podcast as part of their personality.
Like the other day Jordan Peterson was on questioning climate change, Jordan Peterson isn't a scientist, he's a psychologist, he has zero qualifications in science, and yet he's there denying climate change and millions of people who listen won't question it because he sounds eloquent and they think that means must be an expert on the subject.
Every Joe Rogan episode should have Bill Burr on hand in case someone starts bullshitting "I'm not gonna sit here with no medical degree, listening to you with no medical degree".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1chYhsp3NRw
A mate described Peterson as too intelligence the other day. That's the demographic we should worry about. Haha.
Watched that BB podcast at the time and that bit fuckin cracked me up.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on January 29, 2022, 03:42:23 PM
Here, he bullshits about MMA on a far grander scale than he ever has about the virus. He's also a shit colour commentator.
He is actually the UFC's best commentator by a country mile. DC is the commentator that they need to get rid of.
Quote from: Emphyrio on January 29, 2022, 03:38:54 PM
I'm on the fence about the whole Neil Young thing. I'm very much anticensorship but, for sure, people have died due to Rogan's antivax stuff. So, what do you do?
Who died based on what Joe Rogan has said about the vaccine? And he is not antivax he is anti this vaccine it is not the same thing.
Quote from: ldj on January 29, 2022, 03:43:20 PM
Like the other day Jordan Peterson was on questioning climate change, Jordan Peterson isn't a scientist, he's a psychologist, he has zero qualifications in science, and yet he's there denying climate change and millions of people who listen won't question it because he sounds eloquent and they think that means must be an expert on the subject.
I haven't listened to the Peterson podcast yet but Bill Gates isn't a scientist or a doctor yet that hasn't stopped his opinions on both the pandemic or climate change from being rammed down our throats on a daily basis for the last 2 years.
It's very clear that the vast, vast majority of people in the 18-49 age bracket who have died of COVID in the US since the vaccine has been available have been unvaccinated:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~18-49
Every public figure, especially one with 11 million listeners, almost all of them within that precise age bracket, who insists on spreading their "opinion" on whether or not young people should get vaccinated, should at least stop and reflect a moment about that fact. It's where Rogan's reality as a moron crashes into his self-perception as a critical thinker.
Bill Burr nails it in that video, talking about the mask: morons like Rogan made it a badge of "macho" honour not to wear it. And it's exactly the same thing he did regarding the vaccine; played it directly into macho pride. If you relied on your own immune system, that was made to seem more manly than getting a vaccine. Okay. So, all the unvaccinated men under 50 who died, bitches every one? I wonder if Rogan would be willing to articulate that logical conclusion of his own moronic bullshit.
Quote from: mickO))) on January 29, 2022, 04:35:54 PM
I haven't listened to the Peterson podcast yet but Bill Gates isn't a scientist or a doctor yet that hasn't stopped his opinions on both the pandemic or climate change from being rammed down our throats on a daily basis for the last 2 years.
I've barely heard a thing from Bill Gates since covid started, maybe just change where you get your news from?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 29, 2022, 04:48:12 PM
It's very clear that the vast, vast majority of people in the 18-49 age bracket who have died of COVID in the US since the vaccine has been available have been unvaccinated:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~18-49
Every public figure, especially one with 11 million listeners, almost all of them within that precise age bracket, who insists on spreading their "opinion" on whether or not young people should get vaccinated, should at least stop and reflect a moment about that fact. It's where Rogan's reality as a moron crashes into his self-perception as a critical thinker.
It seems that you have a vitriolic, vehement hatred of the lad which is only partly down to his stance on vaccines. I don't get it. Maybe play the ball rather than the man? I mean, he's a presenter, and he has to engage with the topic to some extent. You might have a point about Dr Peterson having acolytes, but Joe Rogan? I seriously doubt anyone would be interested in him being an interviewee rather than interviewer.
You'd probably get on well with him as long as you kept it to hash and other 'shooting the shit' topics.
I don't think Joe Rogan has like an intent to push anything malicious, I just think he's an eejit and naive, but I have noticed that whenever I've seen videos of a guest that veers lets say 'Left' or 'Liberal', he is way more likely to debate and challenge them on their beliefs or opinions than he will a more conservative guest.
He will let Peterson, Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro, whoever else, come on and say all sorts of crackpot shit without question, but if a guest comes on who is pro-vaccine or something he'll interrogate the shit out them lol.
Still, even that might just be down to him loving a conspiracy.
Without question? No, that's not true.
Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro are hardly crackpots. Alex Jones, I'll grant you, is.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on January 29, 2022, 05:52:44 PM
Maybe play the ball rather than the man? I mean, he's a presenter, and he has to engage with the topic to some extent. You might have a point about Dr Peterson having acolytes, but Joe Rogan? I seriously doubt anyone would be interested in him being an interviewee rather than interviewer.
What are you talking about? I am playing the ball. The data* is the ball. Quantified reality versus Rogan's perceptions. If I was just playing the man, I wouldn't bother with the ball. You're as bad as him for not stopping to think before speaking.
See, this is the thing: what you or Rogan "seriously doubt" doesn't matter next to reality. Neither of you seem to get this. Rogan has massive influence over who knows how many tens of thousands of impressionable youths who think that he is the absolute man that he presents himself to be. And beyond his direct fanboys, his voice via soundbites and extracts is so amplified across social media, that it really is a major contributor to the anti-COVID vaccine movement as a whole.
* This data:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 29, 2022, 04:48:12 PM
It's very clear that the vast, vast majority of people in the 18-49 age bracket who have died of COVID in the US since the vaccine has been available have been unvaccinated:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/united-states-rates-of-covid-19-deaths-by-vaccination-status?country=~18-49
I mean (I guess you didn't pause for reflection!) playing the man via the ad hominem slandering you are indulging in, a combination of confirmation bias and a dismissal of an, in your mind, inferior intellect.
Considering you find the man so nauseating and 'moronic', it's a safe bet that you have based your conclusions of the individual on,at best, a few cherry picked clips from his vaccine rants, or worse, I suspect, what you've gleaned from the second hand.
I don't find him nauseating (another problem with you, just making stuff up), but I do think he is a moron, yes. As regards his views on COVID and the vaccine, it's not like he's been particularly nuanced Kev. What do you think I've been missing when he proudly proclaims that he will be relying on his own immune system and thinks that most healthy people of his age bracket can and should do the same? What have I missed? And how, looking again at the data of unvaccinated versus vaccinated deaths in the same age bracket, is that not potentially a dangerous thing to be proclaiming when you have a platform of tens of millions?
What have I missed about the subject at hand? That subject being Rogan endlessly going on about his perception of the vaccine being unnecessary for people "like him"?
That is the ball here. Play it.
What did I make up? You've made your disdain crystal clear, so substitute 'nauseating' for whatever word pleases you.
I'm not arguing with you about his stance on vaccines. I am not against vaccination, quite the opposite. (Another problem with you, etc). I'm pointing out that calling the man a moron among other things based on this one issue betrays a deeper vehemence. I acknowledge your point, but you are implying that millions are too dumb to make their own minds up and will mindlessly follow the pied piper over on Spotify.
I enjoy his show, as do millions, principally for the variety and quality of the guests. It seems to me you'd love to see him burn even if he changed his position on COVID.
If you're not arguing about his stance on vaccines, in a discussion that is precisely about that, then why are you arguing at all? You're just confusing things. If you're arguing against me only because you think I hate Rogan, that is playing the man. The ball is how very wrong and reckless he has been in amplifying anti-COVID vaccine perspectives, even while publicly available data was continuously showing that the vast majority of people dying... unvaccinated... FFS Kev, slap yourself across the face and just pay attention: *that* is why he's a moron! It's not a baseless ad hominem. It's because it was clear as fucking day for anyone who wanted to go and actually look that almost no vaccinated people under 50 were dying, while thousands of unvaccinated were.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt then, as it's a fine evening out, and so as not to clog up another thread with you and I seeing who can piss on the others leg the longest :)
I'm just glad Neil Young caught a dose of Polio. He should have got the vaccine.
I see Spotify have lost 2.8 billion since Neil Young pulled his songs. Mental!
I read 4 billion. There could be a hot take yet. Amazon music are offering Neil Young fans 4 months free subscription. Old Neil isn't as principled as he's trying to come across. Amazon don't exactly have a clean bill by any stretch of the imagination.
It's all performance. Fair fucks to the old codger in a way, he's generating a lot of interest for doing fuck all :laugh:
He said he was taking his music off spotify, and he did it, which at 6 million monthly listeners will cost him a few quid...so how is that performance?
Quote from: open face surgery on January 30, 2022, 10:16:13 PM
Old Neil isn't as principled as he's trying to come across. Amazon don't exactly have a clean bill by any stretch of the imagination.
No arguments about this. Or about Apple either, since many people seem to be doing their switching to there. It is pretty funny how Spotify managed to snatch up 86% (!) of the streaming market, to an extent that many people think there are no alternatives, let alone alternatives that actually have a somewhat decent attitude towards paying artists.
Quote from: ldj on January 30, 2022, 11:07:41 PM
He said he was taking his music off spotify, and he did it, which at 6 million monthly listeners will cost him a few quid...so how is that performance?
He's worth $200 million so whatever couple of million he will lose won't hurt. He'll make it back on Amazon in no time. I think Rogan is something of a tit regarding his nutty Covid stance but so what? He's entitled to not follow the popular trend regardless. I am always against any form of non platforming people,I just think it's fucking dense. As has been said before, people are free to believe anything they like, be it from mainstream media or from Joe Rogan. Long live democracy.
Edit. To put it another way. Far right propaganda is more overt in its grotesqueness and easier to ignore. Far left propaganda presents itself as this all loving and righteous ideology that has only the best interest of everyone at heart. I just don't believe a word of it.
Edit edit. Who gives a bollocks, really. It's all the same oul guff from all of us on an endless loop :laugh:
The Neil Young thing is quite shit but unsurprising in this day and age. I mean Rogan could be talking out of his hole or be right about everything, who knows? I don't really care if he is or not but I'd be pretty certain Neil Young doesn't know any more about any of it than he does so it's really a very silly stance to take.
All Young had to do was stay out of it instead of being a spokesman for the wonderful products of the large pharmaceutical companies, but instead he's protesting for what exactly? Same story if a band/artist was going the other way and getting off Spotify because someone on there was too pro-vaccination, it's just idiocy and is like "well if he wants to play then I'm taking my ball home".
Yeah it's that big and clever, but he'll be the darling of the traditional media outlets because they're all scared shitless of Rogan's pulling power and would be far happier to see him cancelled than put it up to him with their impartial and interesting programming. It'll backfire anyway and Rogan will gain more listeners than Young will lose.
And no, I don't really listen to either of them but I'd favour Rogan in this argument for the same reasons McLove outlined there rather than for what Rogan is or isn't promoting.
Lastly just as I post, I notice I'm not in the pc/offended thread. We could badly do with tidying up these topics a bit so I'll try come back with some environmental stuff as that's all set to be the next great divider and will have the likes of Neil Young throwing his toys out of the pram over the likes of single use plastics and agricultural runoff as well as telling you not to drive your car.
Rogan won't lose any listeners over this, but Young may gain some. Again, taking the most cynical position, for argument's sake, he stands to do great out of this, easily recovering in increased interest from other streaming services he's on whatever he may lose from Spotify.
I still enjoy that he did it: about time people got another little glimpse that the power ultimately resides in the "content" not the provider, i.e. Spotify and Daniel Ek.
The discussion spilled in here because of Peterson being on Rogan, talking through his hole about stuff he knows nothing about. Not just presenting a different opinion, but displaying a fundamental ignorance of how several scientific disciplines operate. Unchallenged. I think that's part of the problem: Rogan has a mix of experts and chancers on his podcast, but neither he nor his listeners seem to be able to tell the difference. He's said now he'll "try harder" in the future.
"Keep on Rocking in the Free World" fuck yeah! :laugh:
https://tessa.substack.com/p/neil-young-pfizer
This was already mentioned above KC. Blackstone also have their investment finger in Spotify, so that somewhat complicates any simple narrative anyone would like to draw up. Some groups are so big, they're everywhere.
Yeah I see he's going to put warnings/disclaimers on some future podcasts so I guess that's something to come from Young's tantrum. Again I don't really listen to either so I won't notice the difference either way, but I'm still against that sort of censorship. Like if someone is talking ring on Rogan, we can make up our own minds and those who can't... well tough luck to them.
As you say they'll probably both do well out of this little spat but I think Young is misguided stirring the pot of division like this. Sort of reminds me of the shitty stance Foo fighters took over it all, too. Fuck it sure he's not the first and won't be the last and If I liked his tunes I'd still listen to him either way and just ignore what he's saying, or if I was a regular Rogan listener it wouldn't put me off listening to Young's stuff either.
About the power residing with the creator that's a fair point and in a way I do like to see it but I'd rather it was about something like paying artists their due rather than the likes of this. What is Young even standing up for here with this lark, and how does he discern what is misinformation anyway beyond the obviously insane stuff?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 31, 2022, 12:48:14 PM
This was already mentioned above KC. Blackstone also have their investment finger in Spotify, so that somewhat complicates any simple narrative anyone would like to draw up. Some groups are so big, they're everywhere.
Blackstone sounds a lot like BlackRock. I wonder is there any connection?
Yes.
Quote from: astfgyl on January 31, 2022, 01:07:03 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 31, 2022, 12:48:14 PM
This was already mentioned above KC. Blackstone also have their investment finger in Spotify, so that somewhat complicates any simple narrative anyone would like to draw up. Some groups are so big, they're everywhere.
Blackstone sounds a lot like BlackRock. I wonder is there any connection?
Larry Fink and Co. says yes. And it was intentionally named to sound similar...
@BSC: yes, it's as if Blackrock are now literally running the world.
This whole Young v Rogan catfight is a complete circus....who gives a fuck what either of them think...skip options are great!!
Was Rogan the presenter of Fear Factor once upon a time? How did he get his own show...
Now I see he was and a UFC Commentator. For some reason I never connected the 2. I'm still stunned that he has such a popular show.
Quote from: Don Gately on January 31, 2022, 03:49:40 PM
Was Rogan the presenter of Fear Factor once upon a time? How did he get his own show...
Yes he was the presenter. He started his own podcast out of his house about 10 - 12 years ago and over time it has become the biggest podcast in the world. He was one of the first to do it and he also had the connections through many different sources to get various famous people to come on. It use to be on Youtube then in May of 2020 he was offered a massive deal from Spotify so he moved over there in September of 2020.
OK thanks, fair play to him. Jesus that's massive bucks.
So he's vax cynical, does his popularity come from a republican base or is it the UFC crowd?
Quote from: Don Gately on January 31, 2022, 04:33:05 PM
OK thanks, fair play to him. Jesus that's massive bucks.
So he's vax cynical, does his popularity come from a republican base or is it the UFC crowd?
The podcast was big long before the pandemic. He is also a comedian which is where I would guess most of his original fanbase came from.
The funny thing is he is left wing and up until a few years ago the only right wing view he held was the right to bear arms. Then a transexual man called Fallon Fox started competing in women's MMA which he had an issue with due bone density etc. not changing during a sex change so he said it was crazy that a person like this was allowed to get into a cage and legally fight women. After that all of sudden he was far right, alt right etc.
He had Bernie Sanders on in 2020 in order to endorses him for the election. A lot of people either don't know or conveniently forget he has had several pro vaccine guests on the podcast including Sanjay Gupta who made a show of himself.
Joe has never once said do not get the vaccine he feels people should be allowed to make the choice themselves and he also can't understand why over the course of the pandemic no experts were talking about basic things like healthy diet, exercise etc. He was even due to get the vaccine himself before one of the UFC PPVs early last year but for some reason they weren't able to give it to him there and then so he was told to come back. Before he went back one of his friends suffered an adverse reaction which if I remember correctly was a blood clot so he then decided against getting it.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on January 29, 2022, 06:21:24 PM
Rogan has massive influence over who knows how many tens of thousands of impressionable youths who think that he is the absolute man that he presents himself to be.
Isn't this the same type of argument used against Marilyn Manson at the time of the Columbine High School shootings? Granted these are different times with most online now + social media amplifies as you said but this still doesn't sit right with me. I agree with the push back against Spotify regards their military investing and extortionate ways they treat artists. Not a fan but I've watched some Rogan podcasts and his latest response to all this seemed reasonable enough to me.
My pessimistic view on all this is these impressionable types, if it's not Rogan, it's someone else or some group that they will cling onto, these peoples viewpoints are somewhat already set in stone, via parents/environment way before they latch onto social media and podcasts. Remember reading how the majority of peoples viewpoints just get reinforced after arguing/debating so all seems kinda pointless. :laugh:
Manson never told anyone to murder anyone, afaik. Rogan, many times implicitly, and at least once explicitly, said that if a young man asked him whether he should get vaccinated, he would tell him no. And he's also not creating art, which makes it a whole different ball park. He made it into a badge of honour not to be vaccinated. Manson never did that with murder, notably not being a murderer himself. A rapist though, as it transpires!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 02, 2022, 02:03:03 PM
Manson never told anyone to murder anyone, afaik. Rogan, many times implicitly, and at least once explicitly, said that if a young man asked him whether he should get vaccinated, he would tell him no. And he's also not creating art, which makes it a whole different ball park. He made it into a badge of honour not to be vaccinated. Manson never did that with murder, notably not being a murderer himself. A rapist though, as it transpires!
:laugh: true, all valid points good sir. We cannot shelter the people who are in the running for the Darwin awards from the beast that is the internet I'm afraid. I mean...on the other hand there's a very small....slight chance that the anti-vaxxers are right and they will laughing their heads off when we've successfully eliminated ourselves from the gene pool after our 10th booster shot ;)
Life has never been so progressive for women.
Out of the home and into the cubicle.... 💩
If only we could figure out a way to cure sleeping we'd be twice as productive.
Wouldn't we be happy then - twice the profits!!
Yes we are....
Canadian police seizing the truckers fuel.
The irony of this fucker Trudeau's behaviour is unreal.
DeepMind turn their AI to some fundamental engineering problems in the domain of nuclear fusion:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04301-9?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=nature&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1645029862
So Ukraine then...
France have just surrendered.
😂
Watching World At War recently and the narrator line that comes back to my mind today is from the 1938 type episode -> "Many watched on in horror but in the end, did nothing."
Was that the French again?
Quote from: astfgyl on February 24, 2022, 02:14:09 PM
Was that the French again?
It's always the french. Macron must feel foolish now.
This however, is not good news (EDIT: Journalist now deleted tweet)
Jaysus hopefully that didn't happen
https://mobile.twitter.com/Quicktake/status/1496829877625962501 saw this putin video as well and wondered would it not be better to leave it off, take his offer and head home for now? Then I'm thinking that'll make him worse so who knows
Quote from: astfgyl on February 24, 2022, 02:52:46 PM
Jaysus hopefully that didn't happen
https://twitter.com/joftius/status/1496864433699966983/photo/1
"That" thankfully didn't happen.
Not so slight difference there!. It's back to what I was saying in the other thread about all the wild stories we'll be hearing.
Lads, in the event of WWIII.... Turn your TV, radio and Facebook off and you'll be grand.
Anyway, hopefully it's just Putin's mob going into the Ukraine to smash the Khazarian Mafia's massive child and drug trafficking operations..
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 24, 2022, 03:18:03 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on February 24, 2022, 02:52:46 PM
Jaysus hopefully that didn't happen
https://twitter.com/joftius/status/1496864433699966983/photo/1
"That" thankfully didn't happen.
Journalist now deleted said tweet - this is what happens when you post real-time information coming in. Latest one is the Su/Mig dogfight video thats altered footage from the flight sim game DCS!
This, however, is real:
"We urge [Ukrainian] citizens to inform us of troop movements, to make Molotov cocktails, and neutralise the enemy."
Some carry on. Was reading a thread there by a journalist heading to Poland with some refugees and he said the Ukrainian army were pulling all the men off the buses for conscription.
That's war man. Every man between 18 and 60 has to take up arms.
Yep thank fuck for neutrality, despite the protestations of Coveney and Varadkar.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 25, 2022, 11:36:33 AM
Some carry on. Was reading a thread there by a journalist heading to Poland with some refugees and he said the Ukrainian army were pulling all the men off the buses for conscription.
Was reading that same thread. The bit that hit hardest was the descriptions of people having to walk their toddlers out of there during it all.
That would put hatred in your heart.
Ya watched a video of all the families getting on buses and all the men remaining. Sickening.
RT is blocked here. I guess I'll have to have to sift through the authorised bullshit to get the news.
Edit - After jumping through a few hoops one can log in. As much bullshitting as the others going on but interesting to see the perspective from their side.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 25, 2022, 12:41:35 PM
That's war man. Every man between 18 and 60 has to take up arms.
Yup, that is how war is. In certain countries, that is.
If the war is happening in some country like Afganistan, they'll keep the women, children and old people, and send off only men between 18 and 45 to the west.
Quote from: warhead on February 25, 2022, 08:58:40 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 25, 2022, 12:41:35 PM
That's war man. Every man between 18 and 60 has to take up arms.
Yup, that is how war is. In certain countries, that is.
If the war is happening in some country like Afganistan, they'll keep the women, children and old people, and send off only men between 18 and 45 to the west.
😂 Fair play.
Based poster alert.!! 8) :laugh: 8)
Obviously a totally different situation. If the US arrived tomorrow and basically said, "Your war against Russia is our war now," as they did with regards to the Taliban, then I'm sure plenty of 18 to 45 year old Ukrainians would be able to leave the country as the US and Russia shelled the shit out of it.
I think he's implying that Afghani men used the conflict (the last one anyway) as a pretext to hit the road and head over to Sweden and Holland etc. I mean, bollocks to refugeeing it in a neighbouring country. Yeah?
aN' whY dO dEY hAVe smARt phOW-iNs if dEY'rE So pOo-eR!?
We all got what he meant Kev. Yawn.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/28/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-update-conflict-belarus-putin-nuclear-deterrence-order-kyiv-russian-invasion-live-updates?page=with:block-621d53cb8f08a5262b543c00#block-621d53cb8f08a5262b543c00
QuoteZelenskiy has called for a no-fly zone for Russian missiles, planes and helicopters following the attack on Kharkiv.
White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the administration did not support a no-fly zone ban, since it would draw the US into direct military conflict with Russia: "It would essentially mean the US military would be shooting down planes, Russian planes," Psaki said on MSNBC. "That is definitely escalatory... That is not something the president wants to do."
He's askin' you though! Zelenskiy really playing diplomatic hard ball, first tapping the EU on the shoulder, and now the US. Writers pay attention!
Anonymous:
https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews/status/1498337491056836610
Thoughts on below ? I did hear that the Germany/Russian deal on the pipeline did disjoint the nose of the USA and its puppetmasters..
Looks like Covid will be over, so a new fear is needed, according To The Mainstream Media Putin is An Evil Man. So Let's talk about Russia and Putin, shall we?
WHEN PUTIN WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT of Russia in 2000, Russia was bankrupt. The nation owed $16.6 billion to the Rothschild-run International Monetary Fund while its foreign debt to the Rothschild-controlled Paris & London Club Of Creditors was over 36 billion dollars!
But Putin took advantage of the current boom in world oil prices by redirecting a portion of the profits of Russia's largest oil producer Gazprom so as to pay off the country's debt. The continual surge in oil prices greatly accelerated Russia's capacity to restore financial sovereignty.
By 2006 Putin had paid off Russia's debt to the Rothschilds. Russia's financial dependence on the Mafia financiers was now over. Putin could then establish what became his Russian Unity Party's campaign slogan: Putin's Plan Means Victory For Russia! This slogan continues to make the New World Order Bankers very nervous.
Since the Rothschild's no longer have any reasoning in Russia, Vladimir Putin has banned Jacob Rothschild and his banking cartel family from entering Russian territory under any circumstances
Putin was quoted as stating "They do not own the world, and they do not have carte blanch to do whatever they want. If we do not challenge them there will be other issues. We will not be bullied by them." in other words... NO to a New World Order!
It is understood that the Rothschild banking racket was a noose tied around the neck of the Russian economy. Once the knot was tightened, the economy would struggle and choke.
Early in his presidency he made a priority of uniting Russia socially, spiritually, and economically. He ordered the arrest of the Rothschild backed oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky who had made Rothschild, Henry Kissinger and Arthur Hartman directors of the Open Russia foundation.
Being a keen student of history, well versed in world affairs, the Russian President has studied the history of the world's most elusive organisation and understands the central role their financial collaborators have played in fomenting the major international conflicts of the 20th century.
Now they want to plunge us into World War III
The controlling elite and branches keep spreading around the world, but President Putin has stopped them expanding into Russia. This is a major blow to their plans for world domination and a ONE World Government!... Now they view him as a real threat. He's got them running scared, which is why he is degraded and portrayed as Evil in the Mainstream media at every opportunity possible.
The reality is that Putin is leading us towards a multi-polar world in many ways a major one being a huge trade deal with Germany with their Gas Pipeline but this will have Devasting Affects on The U.S Control over everything plus their profits are FAR from the one world government, one religion future plotted by the elites and their political puppets.
When he took his forces into Syria to protect a sovereign state he further enhanced his reputation as a powerful leader NOT to mention the ONLY places he is Bombing in Ukraine are U.S Military Bio Labs.
ALWAYS Remember WHATEVER the Media is Showing you is where THEY want you to Look... What THEY want you to see... It's What's Actually Happening they don't want the masses knowing about.
The Russians in the two separatist states in Ukraine have been denied the right to vote on their freedom for 8 years. Zelensky also recently passed a 'Ukrainian only' language law, deliberately marginalising them.
They have also been abused by bombing attacks over those 8 years which has lead to the deaths of if I remember 130 + people, including children, at the hands of the most corrupt state in, at least, Europe. A clearing house for global corruption.
Putin said 'I will defend Russians wherever they are', which is the major part of his motivation, although I've seen it reported almost nowhere.
Up RUSSIA.!!
Meanwhile, our scum national broadcaster, RTÉ...
come out with this shite...
https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0228/1283365-russia-putin-analysis/
RTÉ bad, RT and random anonymous posts copied and pasted from Facebook good, got it. Thanks KC, as rigorous and probing as ever.
Here's an alternate bat-shit theory for you, if you get bored of the other one. A direct causal link between Greta Thunberg and Putin's invasion of Ukraine? U won see dis reported on da mainstream media!
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1497975596294361089
That Greta one, always up to mischief... :laugh:
Can't wait for her porno to be leaked... :abbath:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 06:32:15 AM
The Russians in the two separatist states in Ukraine have been denied the right to vote on their freedom for 8 years. Zelensky also recently passed a 'Ukrainian only' language law, deliberately marginalising them.
They have also been abused by bombing attacks over those 8 years which has lead to the deaths of if I remember 130 + people, including children, at the hands of the most corrupt state in, at least, Europe. A clearing house for global corruption.
Putin said 'I will defend Russians wherever they are', which is the major part of his motivation, although I've seen it reported almost nowhere.
Up RUSSIA.!!
You mean the two areas where putin has piled in mercenaries for the last 8 years to bring about this exact situation. I wondered how long it would take for you to come in defending Russia. 5 days it took. I'm actually surprised it took you that long.
Watched Winter on Fire last night about the 2014 overthrow in Maiden Square. Such a harrowing watch. The bravery of those people is unbelievable.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 01, 2022, 08:39:03 AM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 06:32:15 AM
The Russians in the two separatist states in Ukraine have been denied the right to vote on their freedom for 8 years. Zelensky also recently passed a 'Ukrainian only' language law, deliberately marginalising them.
They have also been abused by bombing attacks over those 8 years which has lead to the deaths of if I remember 130 + people, including children, at the hands of the most corrupt state in, at least, Europe. A clearing house for global corruption.
Putin said 'I will defend Russians wherever they are', which is the major part of his motivation, although I've seen it reported almost nowhere.
Up RUSSIA.!!
You mean the two areas where putin has piled in mercenaries for the last 8 years to bring about this exact situation. I wondered how long it would take for you to come in defending Russia. 5 days it took. I'm actually surprised it took you that long.
Watched Winter on Fire last night about the 2014 overthrow in Maiden Square. Such a harrowing watch. The bravery of those people is unbelievable.
Nice to know I'm always in your thoughts. Flattered here.. :-*
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 01, 2022, 08:39:03 AM
I wondered how long it would take for you to come in defending Russia. 5 days it took. I'm actually surprised it took you that long.
Just the time to catch up on the unsurprisingly large number of social media @FirstnameRandomNumbers bot accounts who up to a few weeks ago were publishing anti-vax stuff to swivel to posting pro-Putin stuff. They're the only truly reliable source of info online.
This report includes interviews with Russian supporters and critics of Putin:
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-listening-post/2022/2/26/putin-redrawing-borders-rewriting-history
Al Jazeera obviously problematic in its own ways, but at least you can't accuse them of being part of any pro-Zionist thing your usual sources are obsessed with imagining.
And another one from a week or so before the actual invasion, in which we see the head of RT appearing on another station and stating, baselessly, that they need to stop Ukraine before they build concentration camps and start gassing people (i.e. pro-Russian separatists). The imagery being evoked, even to you KC, is pretty damn clear:
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-listening-post/2022/2/19/ukraine-us-and-russia-battle-for-narrative-supremacy
And there we have it... RT blocked on SpewTube.. :laugh:
As You Like It: Act 2, Scene 7....
Billy S was right...
Watching Vlad the Lad doing Kung Judo, out fishing, riding horses through rivers and riding bears up mountains....
While our 'leader' is more interested in watching Bareback Mountain or whatever da fuck it's called....
Naaaaaaaah......
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 11:47:23 AM
Watching Vlad the Lad doing Kung Judo, out fishing, riding horses through rivers and riding bears up mountains....
While our 'leader' is more interested in watching Bareback Mountain or whatever da fuck it's called....
Naaaaaaaah......
A symptomatic display of confused homoeroticism and homophobia.
The absolute gobshites 'running' our country... :laugh:
https://mobile.twitter.com/joedotie/status/1498343288323121153
It's nigh-on impossible to get accuracy from the media regarding the conflict. The endless 'is this the end for Putin'? op-Ed's are as deluded as Zelensky and his 'lay down your arms' or Putin with the 'peacekeeping' clap trap.
Russia has its reasons, Ukrainians are suffering, the west is reacting. Can't help but feel that NATO missiles on Putin's doorstep is the Provenance of the conflagration though. Ukraine joining the EU but remaining out of NATO is probably the best Putin will get without toppling Zelensky and having another Chechnya on his hands.
Beep beep beep.....
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 11:47:23 AM
Watching Vlad the Lad doing Kung Judo, out fishing, riding horses through rivers and riding bears up mountains....
While our 'leader' is more interested in watching Bareback Mountain or whatever da fuck it's called....
Naaaaaaaah......
Well fuck off and live there so if you admire Vlad so much. Its so much better than here isn't it.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 01, 2022, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 11:47:23 AM
Watching Vlad the Lad doing Kung Judo, out fishing, riding horses through rivers and riding bears up mountains....
While our 'leader' is more interested in watching Bareback Mountain or whatever da fuck it's called....
Naaaaaaaah......
Well fuck off and live there so if you admire Vlad so much. Its so much better than here isn't it.
Whoa, whoa, whoa... did your local barista not put the little love heart atop your oat milk chai latte there today big lad..? :laugh:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 05:03:27 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 01, 2022, 04:51:24 PM
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 01, 2022, 11:47:23 AM
Watching Vlad the Lad doing Kung Judo, out fishing, riding horses through rivers and riding bears up mountains....
While our 'leader' is more interested in watching Bareback Mountain or whatever da fuck it's called....
Naaaaaaaah......
Well fuck off and live there so if you admire Vlad so much. Its so much better than here isn't it.
Whoa, whoa, whoa... did your local barista not put the little love heart atop your oat milk chai latte there today big lad..? :laugh:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hilarious. I take my coffee black btw. Milk is for pussies.
Kharkiv and Kviv currently getting shelled. Gonna be a long night for those residents.
Lol. You no longa Black belt roundeye. You very bad... :laugh:
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ukraine-war-putin-black-belt-invasion.amp
I'm just amazed at how so many countries and indeed everything else have come together to condemn/sanction Russia. So many singing from the same hymn sheet.
Other than that it's hard to know what's genuinely going on with any of it.
Somehow the thermobaric weapon apparently in use in Ukraine has sucked up the scant remaining oxygen from the brain of our resident spa in the border counties 😔
Quote from: Snare on March 01, 2022, 11:07:35 PM
Somehow the thermobaric weapon apparently in use in Ukraine has sucked up the scant remaining oxygen from the brain of our resident spa in the border counties 😔
Spa? You literally only come on here to bitch and moan. Oooooh the irony.. :laugh:
If any of you are wondering which side to pick...
https://youtu.be/UPT4oGTOHRo
Imagine going out to fight and die under the supreme command of that guy... :-X
The worst of it is that unfortunately you're not the only person around here who's willfully retarded enough to "pick a side" based on that. You're a bit late though, btw, as per usual: people who actually pay attention to global politics have known all about Zelenskiy's previous career for almost three years now.
Funny though, I was just thinking back this morning to when those hard as nails cunts-style Russian army promotional videos were being compared to the US recruitment rally videos, and everyone was supposed to think Russia was laughing at the US. I wonder if they're laughing now, stuck in a traffic jam of their own making with not enough fuel to continue. It's almost as if, as I was saying back then, modern military tactics rely less and less on having skinhead troops. Who knew! I mean, loads of people knew, but still, who knew!
Bonus pic, not re-sized just for you KC:
Shocking about poor oul Joe Rogan all the same. I mean, Spotify... Will they, won't they???
He managed to roll himself into the current side-show shit-storm, don't worry:
https://www.insider.com/joe-rogan-deletes-fake-post-steven-seagal-russian-forces-ukraine-2022-2
'Skinhead troops'. Wat?
Poor Russian logistics and indecisiveness has no bearing whatsoever on the quality (or lack thereof) of the enlisted men (officers are another matter, those are the ones with bars on their shoulders rather than on the arm as we were confused some months ago) that those videos were aimed at recruiting.
Don't be so quick to prance around like a peacock unless you've thought it through first.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 02, 2022, 10:11:23 AM
Poor Russian logistics and indecisiveness has no bearing whatsoever on the quality (or lack thereof) of the enlisted men (officers are another matter, those are the ones with bars on their shoulders rather than on the arm as we were confused some months ago) that those videos were aimed at recruiting.
That is precisely the point I was making, then and now. Good to see you finally get it.
I think soldiery is a topic unclear in your head.
That is to say, logistics and tactics come from senior officers rather than private soldiers or NCO's. Yeah? Or are you still on about 'tactical officers' or whatever.
Again Kev, that was my point back then. A point I said the knuckle-dragging bullies wouldn't get when they were comparing a Russian recruitment video for foot soldiers to the US recruitment video clearly not for foot soldiers and were claiming on the back of that comparison that the US army would now be the laughing stock of other armies. As I told you back then, it wasn't me who compared the two, that was the knuckle-draggers, the ones who think war is still all about brawn, when for better or worse it very fucking obviously isn't.
And hey KC, now that you're all pro-Russia, ever since all the sources all your positions come from suddenly and coincidentally swiveled to taking a pro-Russia stance, almost as if they were, I dunno, infested by accounts controlled by Russia, what do you now think of their only active local ally Belarus?
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on June 02, 2021, 10:39:37 AM
Belarus has banned its citizens from leaving the country. Another wonderful socialist country to go with all the other wonderful socialist countries...
:laugh:
Keep digging those nuggets out son, if it makes you feel better...
Serendipity: stumbled upon it checking back on the US vs Russia army recruitment discussion.
You really do have too much time on your hands though lad. The reaches you'll go to to make a point. Any point.... :laugh:
Could this be the actual real WWIII kicking off.. :abbath:
The irony in the juxtaposition of your previous two posts there being, of course, totally lost on you :laugh:
ffsakes why are users actually engaging with KC?
Quote from: The Heretic on March 02, 2022, 11:27:58 AM
ffsakes why are users actually engaging with KC?
Trust me, I always ask myself the same bloody question :laugh:
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 02, 2022, 12:03:17 PM
Quote from: The Heretic on March 02, 2022, 11:27:58 AM
ffsakes why are users actually engaging with KC?
Trust me, I always ask myself the same bloody question :laugh:
Touché :laugh:
..
More cutting edge humour from years ago. Keep it up man: consistency is your only virtue.
Meanwhile; "Putinjugend, assemble!"
https://twitter.com/mich261213/status/1499330443245727746
Those sweat tops are class. Want one...
The side KC picked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rAHrHd2lcw
Comments under this from the last few days are gold.
I didn't pick Russia. Russia picked me!
Ne'er a truer word spoken.
Watched some videos of them shelling residential buildings in Ukraine over the last 24 hours. And now Macron said the worst is yet to come. It's going to be a massacre.
I have to admit that when the prospect of public executions being used to break Ukrainian morale passed below my eyes, it properly chilled my bones.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 03, 2022, 05:21:37 PM
I have to admit that when the prospect of public executions being used to break Ukrainian morale passed below my eyes, it properly chilled my bones.
Same. No level to the depths of depravity they will resort to.
Putin in today's address rolled out Israel's usual claim against Hamas for when it gets caught with the blood of Palestinian women and children on its hands, saying that Ukraine are using civilians as "human shields." Great pals him and Netanyahu, no surprise.
Putin with another unhinged speech last night. He gave a one "minute" silence for one of his army generals who was killed. He gave him 10 seconds at most. Couldn't care less about him lol. But if you coupled that along with his cannon fodder troops + shelling the crap out of the most Russian speaking cities - I can see why the worst is yet to come for the rest of Ukraine.
Cities will end up like Grozny ->
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_(1999%E2%80%932000)
There's a video on reddit (I'm not linking it) of the immediate aftermath from a russian missile strike on an apartment complex in Kharkiv. Civilian body parts everywhere with unbearable screaming from the still alive injured victims. I clicked on it by mistake. It's the most harrowing thing I think I've ever seen.
As much as I dislike Trudeau and the measures he introduced over the convoy, for those who were comparing him to Mao and even Hitler, what exactly would that now make Putin on the same hyperbolic scale? Literally Vlad the Impaler??
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-fake-news-military-invasion-independent-media/31735798.html
QuoteThe new law envisions penalties of up to 10 years in prison for individuals convicted of the offense [of spreading "fake news" about Russia]. The penalty for the distribution of fake news about the Russian Army that leads to "serious consequences" rises to up to 15 years in prison. It also makes it illegal "to make calls against the use of Russian troops to protect the interests of Russia" or "for discrediting such use" with a penalty possible of up to three years in prison. The same provision applies to calls for sanctions against Russia.
Have also heard that calling on people to attend anti-war protests to carry a penalty of up to 5 years in prison, waiting for a source for that.
Putin of course is terrible but the thing for me is Putin is shit on and has been all along by the MSM, 99 out of 100 people you meet would have told you Putin is a bad guy for the last 20 years etc. Trudeau isn't. Trudeau is praised the world over as a great leader. Trudeau brought in UN troops to get rid of a peaceful protest then a week later had the audacity to make a speech about how everyone needs to defend democracy in the Ukraine and nobody in a position of power called him out on any of this. I guess the buddies of the WEF all stick together.
In regards to what is going on in the Ukraine at the minute to be honest I haven't really been looking too much into it as I need a break from all of this stuff for a week or two.
Quote from: mickO))) on March 04, 2022, 06:46:33 PM
In regards to what is going on in the Ukraine at the minute to be honest I haven't really been looking too much into it as I need a break from all of this stuff for a week or two.
You're doing right there anyway.
"They'll be home before
Christmas Easter!"
Twitter and Facebook blocked by Russia.
It's all out, black and white, you're-lying-no-you're-lying.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 04, 2022, 03:46:01 PM
As much as I dislike Trudeau and the measures he introduced over the convoy, for those who were comparing him to Mao and even Hitler, what exactly would that now make Putin on the same hyperbolic scale? Literally Vlad the Impaler??
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-fake-news-military-invasion-independent-media/31735798.html
QuoteThe new law envisions penalties of up to 10 years in prison for individuals convicted of the offense [of spreading "fake news" about Russia]. The penalty for the distribution of fake news about the Russian Army that leads to "serious consequences" rises to up to 15 years in prison. It also makes it illegal "to make calls against the use of Russian troops to protect the interests of Russia" or "for discrediting such use" with a penalty possible of up to three years in prison. The same provision applies to calls for sanctions against Russia.
Have also heard that calling on people to attend anti-war protests to carry a penalty of up to 5 years in prison, waiting for a source for that.
I hope you know Vlad Tepes wasn't attacking anyone, he was defending his country Romania from the Turkish invasion?
The frame of reference here is how particular leaders treat their own people when they step out of line; keep up ;)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 06, 2022, 10:27:16 AM
The frame of reference here is how particular leaders treat their own people when they step out of line; keep up ;)
I know that Romanian people consider him to be a national here, have to admit I wasn't researching much about the issue myself. And none of us were there, so we only know what we read, and what's written is always biased.
But there's a big chance you might be right about him, Medieval times were brutal, I would easily accept all/most of the leaders back than were ruthless
And yeah, I should pay more attention to the frame of reference, that's what you get when you read something after not sleeping all night :)
Anyone else thinking about accommodating refugees if it comes to that? It's only myself and my wife here and we have a big spare bedroom with bathroom that is available (once I clear my stuff out if it)
Yes we have a spare room and have offered it up to Ukrainian refugees. We are family of 4 so there will be potentially a lot of changes to come.
I saw some FB comments wondering why people didn't offer rooms to Afghanistan/Yemenese refugees. Its a fair point. I really never thought of it before, probably a deep seated bias in my behalf.
Quote from: Don Gately on March 07, 2022, 10:47:05 AM
Yes we have a spare room and have offered it up to Ukrainian refugees. We are family of 4 so there will be potentially a lot of changes to come.
I saw some FB comments wondering why people didn't offer rooms to Afghanistan/Yemenese refugees. Its a fair point. I really never thought of it before, probably a deep seated bias in my behalf.
A very fair point indeed..from our perspective we've had a few personal events over the last 4 months that have given us breathing room to facilitate something like this. But to your point..if someone today said listen...we don't need you for ukraine refugees but we need placements for refugees from other countries we would have to welcome them as well or just be content to be tagged as whatever you tag that kind of behaviour as....racist?...hypocrite? I dunno....
Noticed a stiff increase in petrol prices this morning.
Fair play to anyone putting up refugees, big sacrifice. The numbers are staggering.
Quote from: Don Gately on March 07, 2022, 10:47:05 AM
Yes we have a spare room and have offered it up to Ukrainian refugees. We are family of 4 so there will be potentially a lot of changes to come.
I saw some FB comments wondering why people didn't offer rooms to Afghanistan/Yemenese refugees. Its a fair point. I really never thought of it before, probably a deep seated bias in my behalf.
Been getting a couple of trolls about this for fundraising through the IMA bandcamp the other day.
Simple fact is Ukraine is just that bit closer to home and has much more of an impact to us here.
I know a few Ukranians, through kids schools and at work. I also know and work with quite a few Polish people who have stepped up big time during all this, so I'm more than happy to help them too.
I'm not trying to sound like a cunt or anything, but I don't know a single Afghan or Yemenese person.
It shouldn't make a difference, I know! But it does, like!
Quote from: The Heretic on March 07, 2022, 09:06:33 AM
Anyone else thinking about accommodating refugees if it comes to that? It's only myself and my wife here and we have a big spare bedroom with bathroom that is available (once I clear my stuff out if it)
I find it interesting that Irish people are happy to put up homeless people from another country, yet there is still a homeless crisis here in this country. I'm not having a go at anyone now, just find it interesting.
Apples and oranges. If you are taking in a family coming from Ukraine they are unlikely to be heroin addicts. That's maybe a nasty thing to say but it's also true.
1000 odd families living in 'hotels' after having gaffs repossessed but. Probably not at the smack for the most part those lads.
I know it's not the same thing exactly, but imagine being in a hotel room with the wife and kids, living on pot noodles and sandwiches, washing up in the bathroom, no fridge, no washing machine etc. I've seen a mini doc about two families in those circumstances and it's distressing to say the least.
A very good point I had completely forgotten about.
So, do they get their gear through room service then, or what?
Joking, joking.
If you're helping anyone right now, you're doing better than someone who's helping no one. There are things to be said at the state level about how Ukrainian refugees seem to be getting "favorable" treatment compared to Syrians, etc., but I don't think any individual who's been moved to help out now should give any of that a second thought. Fair play to any of ye who open your houses to anyone.
That's also completely true. I think that what's happening in Ukraine has implications for all of us in the west as to make people consider what they might be able to do. Compassion is compassion.
Anyone interested in knowing what is and has been going on inside Russia recently, this long, long thread here, though a little bit wandering, is pretty exhaustive:
https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1500495309595725831
You can also donate to the Red Cross Ukraine appeal on Revolut. Revolt have said they'll match donations up to 1.5 million.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 07, 2022, 06:31:21 PM
Apples and oranges. If you are taking in a family coming from Ukraine they are unlikely to be heroin addicts. That's maybe a nasty thing to say but it's also true.
Man, can't believe you said that! I'm certain most Afghanistan families don't partake in their own national crop. And I'm sure the Yemenis don't either...
Quote from: Necro Red on March 07, 2022, 06:06:55 PMI find it interesting that Irish people are happy to put up homeless people from another country, yet there is still a homeless crisis here in this country. I'm not having a go at anyone now, just find it interesting.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 08, 2022, 06:22:50 AM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 07, 2022, 06:31:21 PM
Apples and oranges. If you are taking in a family coming from Ukraine they are unlikely to be heroin addicts. That's maybe a nasty thing to say but it's also true.
Man, can't believe you said that! I'm certain most Afghanistan families don't partake in their own national crop. And I'm sure the Yemenis don't either...
Kurt... read the previous post it's kinda obvious he was talking about Irish homeless...
This time last year, us Irish were forbidden to travel beyond 5km, it was against the law to have family & friends enter our homes, we were refused visitations to our elders in the nursing homes. Last month us Irish had to prove they were healthy to travel, and provide proof of PCR tests to travel. No entry to any entertainment without proof of full vaccine certs. This week all restrictions are lifted, as the Irish are asked to house 100,000 (and will be more) Ukrainians. They told us initially it would be 20,000.
Ding-dong... Beep beep beep beep etc....
Jesus man, you are a dose. When one conspiracy theory proves to have been utter horseshit you still manage to roll it into the next meaningless one without a moment's pause.
And they'll mostly be un-vaxxed too, for good measure.. :laugh:
https://time.com/6153254/ukraine-russia-war-covid-19/
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 11, 2022, 06:51:54 AM
Jesus man, you are a dose. When one conspiracy theory proves to have been utter horseshit you still manage to roll it into the next meaningless one without a moment's pause.
Always worth keeping the boul Robert Anton Wilson's words in mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX0GZI-lvTE
Or this
https://youtu.be/XKVmpJaMffM
Haha, precisely!
"Ukraine probably invaded itself, man!"
We could've all been speaking German, sigh...
https://youtu.be/-UaRNl0LV5o
So 5 years ago they were journalist bashing nasty Nazis. And now they're heroes...
Righty-oh Western media, we get the memo...
https://mobile.twitter.com/maajidnawaz/status/1501217774768635919?s=25&fbclid=IwAR1KvvvWRRYwPfrWIxrr-1gRwcTPJ524R7ctiNRp0TIUoHqgbOnOFxgUDv8
Christ, give it a fucking rest
You should read the history of US-USSR relations before, during, and after WWII KC. It will blow your empty mind.
So, US-Ukraine collaboration military bio labs, Russian propaganda in advance of a bio attack of their own? Russia's version of Iraq's WMDs??
No prizes if you guessed that Tucker Carlson is relaying the claim as fact.
No longer just a useless cunt, now also, I think, unambiguously a useful idiot.
He's distorting what an official 'admitted', which was an admission of some kind of cooperation but nothing about weapons, which seems an awful stretch. He has made a few good points (and several poor ones) since this conflagration began but if you sincerely believe him a fool, you're allowing your personal distaste cloud your judgment.
The 'news', and the hackology going on from every conceivable angle makes every single claim from Fox, BBC and whomever else totally unworthy of belief. Zelensky is as full of shit as the Putin press corps is, the American outlets can't help but use it as a pan for frying bigger fish at home. Fuck off, let us know what's going on and shut up.
I believe playing the other side in this obviously, as you say, two-way propaganda war, playing for Russia to score points against Biden and Harris, etc., is foolish.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 12, 2022, 05:17:00 PM
So, US-Ukraine collaboration military bio labs, Russian propaganda in advance of a bio attack of their own? Russia's version of Iraq's WMDs??
No prizes if you guessed that Tucker Carlson is relaying the claim as fact.
No longer just a useless cunt, now also, I think, unambiguously a useful idiot.
Both sides are saying the same thing, so if either one were to do it they have the defence in early. After the Iraqi WMD scandal which the U.S. and U.K. used to invade and occupy the place, it's hard to believe their innocent little "western values" line of bull. Or Putin, I don't believe him either. There are biolabs in Ukraine connected to the U.S. indeed, but that was all in the public domain anyway so whatever about that. Anyway I've managed to stay out of the fine details of all this (I understand Russia have invaded another country, and they have no more right to do it than the yanks and brits did in Iraq so maybe we should offer them the use of our airport in protest) but I do find it funny that our rising energy bills are now blamed on Putin when that was baked in anyway for various reasons but at least there's a scapegoat for it now. Lastly on that and without getting into it too much again, I think that Zelensky is a chancer of the highest order and that Churchill-aping call to arms in the British parliament was some of the most chancer shit I've ever seen. I'm sure many will be caught up in his heroism and disagree, but no way am I taken by him whatsoever. That also in no way gives Russia any reason to be there, whatever they may be saying about it. Oh did anyone see the stoner getting his minute of fame on Sky News with the flak-jacketed reporter? It was hilarious.
Meanwhile while we're all watching the big shiny Ukraine, there's probably another 50 awful things being buried under the news cycle. There always is.
Comparisons with Iraq are, in a sense, legit, but in only three weeks this is already bigger in several ways, most notably the size of the attacking force and the number of them killed: already, even by modest estimates (i.e. not Zelenskiy's skewed by morale-building numbers), more Russian soldiers have died than the US lost in the entire years and years long Iraq campaign.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 13, 2022, 05:46:04 PM
more Russian soldiers have died than the US lost in the entire years and years long Iraq campaign.
I haven't been following any of this but that's mad.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 13, 2022, 05:46:04 PM
Comparisons with Iraq are, in a sense, legit, but in only three weeks this is already bigger in several ways, most notably the size of the attacking force and the number of them killed: already, even by modest estimates (i.e. not Zelenskiy's skewed by morale-building numbers), more Russian soldiers have died than the US lost in the entire years and years long Iraq campaign.
Ah yeah I'm not questioning the scale of the thing and in many ways it's quite different to Iraq so there is a bit of apples and oranges in the comparison. It's just that from my moral viewpoint one is as bad as the other but the treatment is quite obviously different as in I never saw many stories of the heroic Iraqi defenders over here, but then of course I didn't because countries on this side of the world were involved and had to push their side of the propaganda. This seems like a bit more of an even match than either Iraq or indeed Afghanistan, although their brave defenders did make a good fist of it with what little they had.
I hear today talks of an agreement being signed so I hope that much is accurate although it was attributed to the Russian side so who knows. Being anti war as I am, I'm hoping the likes of the sanctions and the Ukrainian resistance will be enough to put an end to the invasion.
Actually did you see the British chap who said he went over to fight the Russians, said they were getting whooped, hid in a forest and then got captured and beaten by Ukrainian soldiers who thought he was a Russian spy? That one struck me funny. He's safely back home in England now anyway so luckily for him he got away with it.
The Iraqi army was tinpot and folded like an accordion under insurmountable odds. The media was primed, bigging up Republican guard units etc who in reality had little fighting spirit and were completely outmatched. Keep in mind that the Iraqi invasion was a conglomerate of many of the worlds most potent militaries, with aircraft carriers in the gulf and with nowhere near the humanitarian concerns or demonisation of the obvious aggressor.
Ukraine is armed with ultra modern anti armour weapons, among thousands of other units of NATO gear. They know world opinion has been manipulated to view the invasion as good v evil, and if they remember their history, the USA was nominally only a supplier of material until December 7, 1941. That could change. Hope springs eternal, and while it's not everything, it's enough.
I doubt many of you will have the time to listen to a Stephen Kolkin lecture, but Russian military doctrine, and the Soviet one that preceded it, is not compatible with its western counterpart. Beaten by the Poles in the 1920's, badly mauled by the Finns in 1940 until they eventually steamrolled them, both with appalling casualties. Remember what happened afterwards though, the most complete victory in the history of warfare over what was at the time the most sophisticated and best trained army in the world. NATO would do well to remember that.
Don't put too much onus on casualty numbers, in the end, it doesn't always equate to glory. The Americans killed a seven figure number (nobody knows how many for sure) of Vietcong and NVA in 8 years at the cost of 58,000 of their own KIA. They never lost a pitched battle and were nevertheless humiliated and sent packing, society at home never to be the same.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 13, 2022, 06:49:35 PM
The Iraqi army was tinpot and folded like an accordion under insurmountable odds. The media was primed, bigging up Republican guard units etc who in reality had little fighting spirit and were completely outmatched. Keep in mind that the Iraqi invasion was a conglomerate of many of the worlds most potent militaries, with aircraft carriers in the gulf and with nowhere near the humanitarian concerns or demonisation of the obvious aggressor.
Yeah that's a slightly more eloquent version of what I was saying. I'd agree with all that.
Here's hoping we don't get the two decades out of this one!
There's about as much comparison between Ukraine now and Iraq then as there is between Ukraine now and the Red Army of WWII. In fact, Russian society today is arguably closer to US society during the Vietnam war than it is to Soviet society in 39-45. And US society back home is what ended Vietnam, more than what was happening on the ground.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 13, 2022, 07:59:56 PM
There's about as much comparison between Ukraine now and Iraq then as there is between Ukraine now and the Red Army of WWII. In fact, Russian society today is arguably closer to US society during the Vietnam war than it is to Soviet society in 39-45. And US society back home is what ended Vietnam, more than what was happening on the ground.
The Easter offensive in 1972 and the massive American bombing campaign that followed it started the road to peace, not American public opinion. Kissinger and Nixon were unwilling to accept defeat until it was impossible to prop up the south any further after neither side lived up to agreed terms. Read a book! Watergate played a role but congressional reluctance to keep supporting a lost cause was definitely the principal domestic concern. Kissinger and McNamara freely admitted this on the after dinner speech circuit.
The Iraqi army was a squalid, inept and hopelessly demoralised force before a shot was fired in 1991, and far worse condition in 2003. The Red army, once it rolled back the Germans in 1943 and obliterated weaker Romanian and Hungarian hangers-on, was an unstoppable behemoth which brought the biggest artillery barrage in history down on the Reich. There is not and never will be a comparison.
As for the societal comment, Russia is a hyper-capitalist state, and has been for 30 odd years, it's society is as different now from the 39-45 incarnation as anywhere on the planet. I guess you are alluding to the 'mass exodus' that is being 'reported' but not 'verified', and the protests etc. If only journalism wasn't the most morally bankrupt profession worldwide, maybe we'd get an accurate vision of what the f is going on.
I started out saying there is no comparison. But there is also no comparison between the USSR and its Red Army during WWII and Russia and its army today. No comparison whatsoever. Putin, for all his flaws, would never get away today with the scale of what Stalin got away with, for good and for bad, back then.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 13, 2022, 08:24:56 PM
I started out saying there is no comparison. But there is also no comparison between the USSR and its Red Army during WWII and Russia and its army today. No comparison whatsoever. Putin, for all his flaws, would never get away today with the scale of what Stalin got away with, for good and for bad, back then.
Stalin was far cannier than Putin was in some ways. Apart from Patton, he had them all hoodwinked in the last few months of the war. He got away with many of his excesses because the end of the world seemed to be on the horizon and he was the figurehead of the final victory.
If you haven't seen it, you should watch 'The Death of Stalin'. It's gas but it also captures the piss your pants terror the man was capable of.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 13, 2022, 08:14:16 PMI guess you are alluding to the 'mass exodus' that is being 'reported' but not 'verified', and the protests etc. If only journalism wasn't the most morally bankrupt profession worldwide, maybe we'd get an accurate vision of what the f is going on.
No, I was just alluding to the fact that I don't think today's Russians view the West in the same way as Soviets of yore viewed the Third Reich, not least of all because, for all the censorship that does go on in Russia (not only in Russia, of course, yadda-yadda), they still have way better access to a general idea of what's actually going on than Soviet era Russians ever did. So, there's just no way Putin would get public support for attempting anything even nearly on the scale of WWII with respect to NATO, for those two reasons combined: not viewed by the public as the same level of evil empire "thanks" to capitalism, and not possible to hoodwink to quite the same extent with respect to potentially hundreds of thousands of sons of Mother Russia dying for that cause they don't really believe in all that much. You say "NATO should keep in mind" what Stalin accomplished in WWII. I really don't think they need to keep that in mind at all.
The Death of Stalin was so good, been meaning to watch it a second time since the cinema though and I guess this is as good a time as ever!
Buscemi as Khrushchev, the villain from Harry Potter as Zhukov...ah here, amazing casting alone.
The USSR was clearly the aggrieved party in WW2 (although most, but not all, historians agree they would have attacked Germany themselves if left unmolested). Putin feels aggrieved now, but the world views it otherwise, for a number of reasons.
I believe NATO should keep it mind, because if they launch their own 'preemptive' strike (the charte forbids this unless they are attacked first but tell that to Serbia and Montenegro), uppity Corsicans and Austrians underestimated, fatally, what that would entail.
I think it serves Putin better if NATO include it in their strategizing.
Leaked Kremlin memo from 3rd March informing Russian state television networks to relay Tucker Carlson segments as frequently as possible. Ample evidence this was being done anyway. If you watch his recent segments, note just how neatly isolated into an easily edited 10-15 second parcel his perfunctory "Putin bad" sound bites are, almost like it's pre-meditated for ease of cutting, were one to think so cynically...
Seemingly a fair chunk of how Russia is behaving in general is outlined in Aleksander Dugin's "Foundations of Geopolitics". Heard about this book a few years back but never followed up on it, must see if I can get a copy out of curiosity. Anyway a little overview of it is here: https://youtu.be/Q9MSV9Bp35Y
Whole situation is demented. My day job involves selling various tech to Moscow (long story short). Been some sport sifting through the sanctions to see what is and isn't blocked - obviously won't be selling lasers to them again any time soon lol, but they were a common item before. The main equipment we move isn't blocked luckily but it is impossible to organise small freight at the minute, flights just aren't moving.
Talking to some Russian speaking people I know it was mentioned the propaganda on TV there is dialled up completely, I mentioned some of the odd bits you'd see translated and uses for examples online and was told that's not even the half of it.
There's a narrative being pushed online that's visible on twitter that the war isn't happening at all. It is bizarre. A lot of No True Scotsman style stuff laying the groundwork for it - "no free thinker would just accept there is a war there", in various forms but with equally provocative phrasing, drummed up by a heap of suspect accounts, roping people into questioning the reality or importance of it at all. There is definitely a variety of elements to the whole thing that we don't know about, but denying anything is happening or entertaining that as an idea is fried.
Another Irish newspaper showing who their real masters are.
Unbelievably, we have a story here about a notorious child abuser and the systemic cover up of his crimes by prestigious Derry boy's school St Columb's College.
Everyone knew this was going on. The college, the students, the whole shebang.
Everyone even knew that the abuser in question was not punished by the Nobel Laureate producing school.
No..he was in fact promoted To Vice President !!!
Now the leader of the Catholic church in Ireland, former President (and former pupil) of St Columbs College Archbishop Eamon Martin is in the spotlight over the case.
But guess what the journalist in question focused on?
Not on the child abuse.
Not on the fact that despite knowing about the predator's behaviour and abuse of the children in his care, the college actually promoted him, making Gallagher Vice President.
Not on the cover up.
No. Of course not. It's the Far Right.
The media will never focus on the peedohs. Unbelievable!
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/02/24/news/alleged-st-columb-s-college-sex-abuser-taught-pupils-a-nazi-marching-anthem-2597042/
Sorry, did I say peedohs? I meant MAPs (Minor Attracted Persons)...
A good take on where we are and where we're going...
https://youtu.be/ZvS8AakNOGg
Quote"No war
Stop the war
Don't believe propaganda
Here they lie to you
Russians against war"
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503446891014537222
Ovaries of steel this one has.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 15, 2022, 08:09:53 AM
A good take on where we are and where we're going...
https://youtu.be/ZvS8AakNOGg
I like the suggestion that people need to go Amish and totally disconnect from technology. I propose you and the guy who made that video do so post haste. G'bye now!
:laugh: 👏🏻
Yeah the people protesting in Russia define what it is to be brave, knowing what the repercussions are for making such a stand for others. Unreal.
Quote from: Snare on March 15, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Yeah the people protesting in Russia define what it is to be brave, knowing what the repercussions are for making such a stand for others. Unreal.
Indeed. One would hope that even the most blinkered of people would be able to see the difference between, in Russia, having to break onto a set with a hand-written placard in order to express a sentiment of dissent at the risk of 5-15 years in prison, and, in the USA, having a prime time show on which you can criticize state policy any which you way you like at zero personal risk whatsoever.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 15, 2022, 10:04:23 AM
Quote from: Snare on March 15, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Yeah the people protesting in Russia define what it is to be brave, knowing what the repercussions are for making such a stand for others. Unreal.
Indeed. One would hope that even the most blinkered of people would be able to see the difference between, in Russia, having to break onto a set with a hand-written placard in order to and, in the USA, having a prime time show on which you can criticize state policy any which you way you like at zero personal risk whatsoever.
Communism 101
Quote from: ochoill on March 14, 2022, 06:33:32 PM
There is definitely a variety of elements to the whole thing that we don't know about, but denying anything is happening or entertaining that as an idea is fried.
Are even the Russians saying they're not there though? I know they might be spinning it differently back home but it's still established that they are there.
I saw a video purporting to be a Ukrainian attack on a suburb of Donetsk, which didn't look any more real or fake than the others I've seen claiming to be Russian attacks on places. What I did notice however was that all the Ukrainian flag in bio crowd were saying this one was fake, whereas all the paranoia accounts were calling the Russian attacks fake.
Most were seemingly oblivious to the idea that they might be getting played from both sides, which to me seems obvious but it was interesting to see both sides claiming the same of each other, like the bioweapon story coming from both sides of the war.
It's all very Cambridge Analytica once more, as was so much of covid on both sides and it feels coordinated and it feels like whoever is doing it is getting better at it all the time. Everything on social media since the trump campaign in 2015/6 is used to divide as many as possible along the strongest lines and this war is no different. It's why I won't get into this one much aside from a few generalised points here and there. And the best part of all is that I still wouldn't rule out all this carry on being designed with nothing in mind only to sell you things and profit from you over all else but then I'd be one of those paranoia accounts I was on about for the most part.
If it reassures you, I have entertained (I wouldn't say more than that though) the idea that, if it were all an elaborate orchestration, then it would be with a view to bumping global arms sales more than anything else, so driven by those admittedly fucking massive financial and power interests.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 15, 2022, 07:19:52 PM
Quote from: ochoill on March 14, 2022, 06:33:32 PM
There is definitely a variety of elements to the whole thing that we don't know about, but denying anything is happening or entertaining that as an idea is fried.
Are even the Russians saying they're not there though? I know they might be spinning it differently back home but it's still established that they are there.
I saw a video purporting to be a Ukrainian attack on a suburb of Donetsk, which didn't look any more real or fake than the others I've seen claiming to be Russian attacks on places. What I did notice however was that all the Ukrainian flag in bio crowd were saying this one was fake, whereas all the paranoia accounts were calling the Russian attacks fake.
Most were seemingly oblivious to the idea that they might be getting played from both sides, which to me seems obvious but it was interesting to see both sides claiming the same of each other, like the bioweapon story coming from both sides of the war.
It's all very Cambridge Analytica once more, as was so much of covid on both sides and it feels coordinated and it feels like whoever is doing it is getting better at it all the time. Everything on social media since the trump campaign in 2015/6 is used to divide as many as possible along the strongest lines and this war is no different. It's why I won't get into this one much aside from a few generalised points here and there. And the best part of all is that I still wouldn't rule out all this carry on being designed with nothing in mind only to sell you things and profit from you over all else but then I'd be one of those paranoia accounts I was on about for the most part.
The biolabs in Ukraine are funded by the American taxpayer and the biggest investor is a company called Rosemont Seneca. A company founded by Hunter Biden and Christopher Heinz in 2009.
Christopher Heinz is John Jerry's son.
MetaBiota is the insurance company...
Nancy Pelosi's son Paul sits on the board of a Ukrainian energy company. Romney's son does too.
They're all in on it...
But still none more so than Putin!
Whatever the background to it all, right now 14 russian naval ships are near Odessa and have started shelling the city. Taking the Grozny playbook and flattening cities. Hopefully some of the stolen russian gear can be pointed at those ships. Saw the real estimate is 4 to 6 thousand russian troops dead so far. Mostly young conscripts. Poor bastards. Russia has no qualms about casualties anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 15, 2022, 09:01:02 AM
Quote"No war
Stop the war
Don't believe propaganda
Here they lie to you
Russians against war"
https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503446891014537222
Ovaries of steel this one has.
Also seen lots of people saying this has many hallmarks of a Kremlin endorsed stunt, either to get the west talking, as I did, about brave Russians or, what I would sooner suspect, to give an impression that dissent is not actually treated so harshly as we have heard: this woman got away with a rather small fine so far.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 15, 2022, 09:19:01 PM
Whatever the background to it all, right now 14 russian naval ships are near Odessa and have started shelling the city. Taking the Grozny playbook and flattening cities. Hopefully some of the stolen russian gear can be pointed at those ships. Saw the real estimate is 4 to 6 thousand russian troops dead so far. Mostly young conscripts. Poor bastards. Russia has no qualms about casualties anyway.
The Russians are holding back. It's not in doubt that they are performing poorly but Putin wants a low causality, low cost war with a swift resolution. The artillery arsenal available to them is enormous, as well as a high quality Air Force, both of which have been for the most part conspicuous by their absence. Putin has miscalculated badly, and there is no way he'll pull out if it means losing face. Either he gets most of what he wants via these talks or it's going to get far, far worse.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 16, 2022, 07:13:32 AM
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 15, 2022, 09:19:01 PM
Whatever the background to it all, right now 14 russian naval ships are near Odessa and have started shelling the city. Taking the Grozny playbook and flattening cities. Hopefully some of the stolen russian gear can be pointed at those ships. Saw the real estimate is 4 to 6 thousand russian troops dead so far. Mostly young conscripts. Poor bastards. Russia has no qualms about casualties anyway.
The Russians are holding back. It's not in doubt that they are performing poorly but Putin wants a low causality, low cost war with a swift resolution. The artillery arsenal available to them is enormous, as well as a high quality Air Force, both of which have been for the most part conspicuous by their absence. Putin has miscalculated badly, and there is no way he'll pull out if it means losing face. Either he gets most of what he wants via these talks or it's going to get far, far worse.
Agree on all that. It seems the Ukrainians are just gonna hunker down in the bomb shelters (apart from a few mobile units attacking Russian positions) and fight the urban battle when it happens. Now that will be brutal.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 15, 2022, 07:31:47 PM
If it reassures you, I have entertained (I wouldn't say more than that though) the idea that, if it were all an elaborate orchestration, then it would be with a view to bumping global arms sales more than anything else, so driven by those admittedly fucking massive financial and power interests.
I get ya. I'm not entertaining this elaborate hoax idea at all, but if there was one it'd surely be for the purposes of selling things.
There's obviously many many little hoaxes all over the internet about it all but whatever, they can keep em
Here is an example of why it's hard to believe things coming from Ukraine. This is not to take sides either, but where did this person get this info from?
https://mobile.twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1502875319170387968
Posted march 13th. Theatre shelled yesterday. What are the chances? What we now have is a large cohort claiming coincidence and another large cohort claiming intelligence.
I have no idea other than it's a bit suspect. So it might be pre emptive propaganda on the part of the Russians or maybe Ukrainian attempt to garner more support. Or the poster was clairvoyant, or pulled it out of their arse. The point I'm making is that one can pick any of those and run with it and will likely never find out if it's true bar the theatre was hit by something. The Azov battalion carrying out false flags all over Ukraine isn't exactly floating my boat as a theory either, but would I be surprised at things like this happening? I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean I'm buying that version either. Even the maternity hospital one was similarly questionable. You just have to take the Ukrainians word for it, or their allies, or the Russians, and would you believe any of them?
Of course, me being me, I'm off wondering if the present is so questionable then imagine what war history is like?
Edit: https://youtu.be/ANNhDKGjNK8
That was in the comments. Being blamed on Ukrainian forces. Looks realistic enough to me but who knows who did what. It's not as if the media anywhere are going to take an unbiased view of any of it. I hope the regular folks there can get out soon if there's no ceasefire, and there's surely a thread online somewhere calling them all crisis actors and Russian disinformation and how the Ukrainians wouldn't do a thing like that.
Am I the only one here thinking like this about it all, like has everyone else just donned their Ukrainian colours and simply believes we aren't being equally propagandised here?
War is fuckin awful
Yer wan is obviously Russian (Ukrainians who speak Russian are not "ethnic Russians", this idea is also part of Russian propaganda, aimed at negating the valid existence of Ukraine as a separate country and culture), and that is just the kind of narrative Russia has been pushing, identical to what Israel states whenever they kill a load of civilians in Palestine: "Hamas are using civilians as human shields."
If her tweet tells us anything, it's as likely telling us that this was a pre-meditated attack by Russia on civilians, all set up to be blamed on Azov, who they like to claim are literally running the nation.
But who knows exactly what's going on. That Donetsk attack, and the claims it was by Ukrainian forces, was pretty widely covered the other day. Fuckin' awful, as you say. There's no reason to believe that civilians won't be killed by Ukrainian forces; they're hardly likely to be flawless where even the most technologically advanced armies in the world, US and Israel, for example, are so utterly flawed.
Happy St Patrick's Day lads & lassies...
Yeah, we're all fucked alright. More interested in a bullshit theatre experience in far away lands...
Get them pints of plain inta yiz and fuck the world..!!
Quote from: astfgyl on March 17, 2022, 11:21:31 AM
Am I the only one here thinking like this about it all, like has everyone else just donned their Ukrainian colours and simply believes we aren't being equally propagandised here?
The state of Ukrainian propaganda is to say 12000 Russian troops have been killed when the figure is around 7000 troops. The Russians bombed the theatre and then blamed the Ukranians. That simple really.
Fog of War boyz.
7000 seems very high to me.
Quote from: Ollkiller on March 17, 2022, 12:31:38 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 17, 2022, 11:21:31 AM
Am I the only one here thinking like this about it all, like has everyone else just donned their Ukrainian colours and simply believes we aren't being equally propagandised here?
The state of Ukrainian propaganda is to say 12000 Russian troops have been killed when the figure is around 7000 troops. The Russians bombed the theatre and then blamed the Ukranians. That simple really.
You don't actually know this, although I get that you believe you do. That's how propaganda works.
Edit: the more I read that comment, the more naive it looks. "That simple"? The tweet in question was before the theatre attack, not after
Seriously?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 17, 2022, 11:50:23 AM
Yer wan is obviously Russian (Ukrainians who speak Russian are not "ethnic Russians", this idea is also part of Russian propaganda, aimed at negating the valid existence of Ukraine as a separate country and culture), and that is just the kind of narrative Russia has been pushing, identical to what Israel states whenever they kill a load of civilians in Palestine: "Hamas are using civilians as human shields."
If her tweet tells us anything, it's as likely telling us that this was a pre-meditated attack by Russia on civilians, all set up to be blamed on Azov, who they like to claim are literally running the nation.
But who knows exactly what's going on. That Donetsk attack, and the claims it was by Ukrainian forces, was pretty widely covered the other day. Fuckin' awful, as you say. There's no reason to believe that civilians won't be killed by Ukrainian forces; they're hardly likely to be flawless where even the most technologically advanced armies in the world, US and Israel, for example, are so utterly flawed.
My own thoughts also say some sort of pre emptive propaganda but that doesn't tie up nicely either. How did she have this on the 13th, a lucky guess? Something off with it but I have no idea what. I copped that she was on the side of the Russians straight away and I'll be careful not to go down that road because they shouldn't be there plain and simple no matter what their justification. I also don't think the Azov battalion are representative of the entire Ukrainian army or the civilians though I get they have a certain level of support.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 17, 2022, 12:37:26 PM
Fog of War boyz.
7000 seems very high to me.
Ukranians say 12000 but United States said 7000. Most sources are saying between 6 and 8 thousand dead Russians.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 17, 2022, 12:49:25 PM
How did she have this on the 13th, a lucky guess? Something off with it but I have no idea what.
If (genuine "if") the narrative she claimed knowledge of on the 13th was indeed part of prepared justification for a later attack (a tactic that has already been used by Russia in this conflict with respect to the maternity hospital they claimed Azov had taken over), then in that case it wasn't her guessing at all, just her relaying propaganda to the English speaking world which was already spreading far and wide throughout Russia in Russian rather than English.
So do you reckon the Russians got this out there, then shelled the theatre, knowing it was full of women and children? Why would they plan in advance to hit that target to the extent that they got the story in early? Not having it as simple as that sounds either btw. Maybe the Russians wanted something else there and were prepared to cause the collateral damage to get it? Again it doesn't matter, we'll never know. Everyone finds it easier to believe all of this of the Russians than the Ukrainians anyway for whatever reason, which shows the sterling job our own propaganda outlets are doing. I'm going to hold that tweet as an example of how we all haven't a clue who did what, despite the media on both sides claiming it's the other, and of the massive role that social media is playing in setting the narrative. It's fucked is what it is, some of it's true, some lies, some misrepresented, but all fucked.
I don't believe either side in most of this. They're all up to no good all the time anyway. Russians, Ukrainians, yanks, Brits, even the fuckin Irish are full of it. Ah well
As Kev says, fog of war.
I don't really know much about Ukraine's precedents, but Russia's history with confusionism is very well documented, some (Adam Curtis among them) have put forward the idea that the Kremlin employed a tactic of making sure no one ever had any clue what the fuck was actually going on for years. I've read pieces accusing the Washington elite of the same.
It is pretty interesting watching narratives weave in real time in the present moment, and for those of even a slightly critical bent really highlights the level of uncertainty that surely underpins the majority of broad historical narratives we've all basically internalized.
Conservative commentators saying that the cross on Zelensky's fatigues is some kind of neo Nazi symbol...would ye ever fuckin' lie down boys.
The concept of this skullduggery is interesting in retrospect but living through the reams of utter bullshit from both camps in wartime is maddening. And what Biden was thinking calling Putin a war criminal when he's in negotiations...It's time for that man to be put to bed with a nice cup of milky tea.
Aye fog of war is a good description. I'm with most others in that I have a natural tendency to view the Russians as sneaky so I can see why do many will buy it all.
As for biden? An unbelievable gimp but he was always going to be on a hiding to nothing the way the whole US was divided along trump lines. Not to say he's doing well or anything either but no matter who got in was going to have severe problems. As you say a nice cup of tea or whatever they give in the Swiss clinics
He's half gone down the road already, you can't really blame him too much but that other incompetent Harris...What is she for? Totally embarrassing, giggling like a fool and talking complete gibberish whenever she's on the international stage. Picking someone because and for no other obvious reason other that she's a woman and not particularly pasty was foolish, and I'm not saying that as a provocation to anyone posting here.
McNamara, Kissinger, Holbrooke, Rice, say what you want about them and other senior US diplomats, but at least they know their arses from their earholes.
We're not all fucked - we're all in this together :abbath:
Just a little bit of war for 2 weeks.
I don't look at the news any more, but that Putin seems like an awfully bad lad. Wouldn't it be great if all our governments banded together against him, and then he'd fuck off and we would realise how much better life is for all of us, when our governments work together!
Maybe we could encourage them all to merge together into a single government and spy on us all the time just to make sure this doesn't happen again!
Happy Paddy's day lads! No drinks for me cos I've no money left after the rising costs of electricity and diesel. But that's ok because soon I'll own nothing and I'll be happy :-*
Quote from: Giggles on March 17, 2022, 07:38:04 PM
We're not all fucked - we're all in this together :abbath:
Just a little bit of war for 2 weeks.
I don't look at the news any more, but that Putin seems like an awfully bad lad. Wouldn't it be great if all our governments banded together against him, and then he'd fuck off and we would realise how much better life is for all of us, when our governments work together!
Maybe we could encourage them all to merge together into a single government and spy on us all the time just to make sure this doesn't happen again!
Happy Paddy's day lads! No drinks for me cos I've no money left after the rising costs of electricity and diesel. But that's ok because soon I'll own nothing and I'll be happy :-*
That had occurred to me too. Yeah Russia have definitely invaded Ukraine but there's something off about the response to me. Zelensky appearing by video link to foreign governments is fucked in ways I can't really explain only to say I know they are all rotten to the core together. All of them without exception and by chance or design this will b be used to usher in things that wouldn't be otherwise ushered in. It's why I won't follow all the details, because I learned my lesson over what's coming during covid and long past believing the media at all because they are lying scum pieces of shit.
That isn't to contradict anything I've said, I still don't know which parts of any of this are real or propaganda or random or designed to fulfill an already set agenda. It's that fucked now at this stage and I'm glad you've put in words something I couldn't quite
https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/news/ukrainian-family-in-desperate-need-of-accommodation-41450651.html
I think all of the foreign nationals entering the country should get an article of their own.
They should, shouldn't they??
The piece is from the Gorey Guardian, relayed in the Wexford section of the online version of the Indo. It's probably the most interesting thing that's happened in Gorey for a good while!
Arnie:
https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 18, 2022, 01:20:49 AM
The piece is from the Gorey Guardian, relayed in the Wexford section of the online version of the Indo. It's probably the most interesting thing that's happened in Gorey for a good while!
Ah yeah I get it's local shite it's just funny having a full article like that and I'm wondering why yer man won't put em up. I'd love to see a similar one but it's for a couple of Iraqis or Syrian blokes. Y'know, "I know the lads they're sound" type of sell
Edit: watched Arnie there. Eloquent enough. I think him and Zelensky should do something like Red Heat 2, or Twins 2.
Oh St Patrick, he drove out the snakes with his prayers but that's not all it takes.
For the snake symbolises an evil that arises and hides in your heart as it breaks.
And the evil has risen my friends, from the darkness that lives in some men.
But in sorrow and fear, that's when saints appear to drive out those old snakes again.
And they struggle for us to be free from the psycho in this human family.
Ireland's sorrow and pain is now the Ukraine and St Patrick's name is Zelensky.
Written by bono and read by Nancy pelosi. :-[ :-[ :-[
Bono you absolute cunt. Where's my Russian flag, I need to hang it from my window. Anything the celebrities are behind, I'm against. It's a policy that has served me well so far. Read that poem a few times, let it sink in. Fuck it just have the last line again.
Ireland's sorrow and pain is now the Ukraine and St Patrick's name is Zelensky.
Someone pointed out that this abysmal "poem" can be read as an extended "There was a young man from Nantucket" style Limerick :laugh:
I think oul Nancy missed a trick there she could really have sown it into the tax dodging pontificating cunt
Jesus. I feel sick.
Verbal puke...
What an absolute goon. Spastic.
So cringe. I mean, whatever about critiques could be made over its content, but compare what Arnie was able to muster to that shite from Bono, supposedly a wordsmith of sorts. Jaysus.
I think Bono would look lovely on the front line 8n the Ukraine. Or in the firing solution of anyone with an automatic weapon.
Quote from: hellfire on March 18, 2022, 01:47:49 PM
I think Bono would look lovely on the front line 8n the Ukraine.
Wouldn't inflicting Bono on the frontlines be considered a war crime against both sides?
Can we send Bono to Mariupol?
Speaking of gobshite lead singers, dopey from Staind goes full KC:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/aaron-lewis-questions-americas-support-for-ukraine-maybe-we-should-listen-to-what-vladimir-putin-is-saying/
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 21, 2022, 12:19:54 AM
Speaking of gobshite lead singers, dopey from Staind goes full KC:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/aaron-lewis-questions-americas-support-for-ukraine-maybe-we-should-listen-to-what-vladimir-putin-is-saying/
Best article you've put up in ages. Great read..
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 21, 2022, 06:18:03 AM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 21, 2022, 12:19:54 AM
Speaking of gobshite lead singers, dopey from Staind goes full KC:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/aaron-lewis-questions-americas-support-for-ukraine-maybe-we-should-listen-to-what-vladimir-putin-is-saying/
Best article you've put up in ages. Great read..
[\quote]
Never mind all that shit.... not while QuoteBEARTOOTH's CALEB SHOMO Says METALLICA's 'Enter Sandman' Still Has 'One Of The Heaviest Riffs Of All Time'
and in the midst of QuoteTOMMY LEE's Son DYLAN JAGGER LEE's Band MOTEL 7 Drops 'Headphones' EP
Fuck I tried fixing that twice but it's like the Inception of quotes so I'm out
Now remember that, before you read this, that America doesn't actually buy feck all oil from Russia...
https://www.local10.com/news/local/2022/03/17/klarna-partners-with-select-gas-stations-so-customers-can-pay-over-time/
But your media and governments will tell you that Putin is to blame... :laugh:
Oil is a global commodity; the global per barrel price increases and decreases in response to all sorts of events, just like any other such commodity. The profiteering tycoons are most definitely digging deep at the moment though. The per barrel price is at a 7 year high. Oil has always been expensive primarily because of the profiteering tycoons, and 4 of the top 10 richest oil tycoons in the world are... wanna guess KC? That's right, Russian, and all with the tightest ties imaginable with Putin.
Whatever it is when it comes to the oil, the thing is that USA will not see a big rise in oil price(nor the rise in price of many other things). With putting a ban on Russia's export, USA is basically fine, they are self sufficient. Who will suffer are European countries. Both Russian cunts as well as Western European America's ass licking puppy dog countries.
Dunno lad, they seem to be experiencing quite severe hikes in prices, at least for petrol.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/business/us-gas-prices-record.amp.html
Granted, the two times I've been there in a rental car, the prices were way lower than Irish ones (offset by laughably uneconomical to run motors), so I find it hard to be too sympathetic when that 4.25 gallon is costing me double that here.
I wonder what the Dubrovnik beer cartel's excuse for serving the exact same pint of fizzy pish at ten times the price of Belgrade is though 😯
I have friends in Dubrovnik and I always have a wonder at how they survive on the shitty Croatian wages there. It's expensive as phuck, even for Western Europeans... Doesn't help that some of the bastids like short changing you on your Kunas too.
Zagreb was far far better value for money. Although it's not on the coast...
Many's a dope got ripped off on that Dubrovnik wall. Not me though, I brought my own guide.. 8)
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 22, 2022, 06:46:14 PM
Dunno lad, they seem to be experiencing quite severe hikes in prices, at least for petrol.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/business/us-gas-prices-record.amp.html
Granted, the two times I've been there in a rental car, the prices were way lower than Irish ones (offset by laughably uneconomical to run motors), so I find it hard to be too sympathetic when that 4.25 gallon is costing me double that here.
I wonder what the Dubrovnik beer cartel's excuse for serving the exact same pint of fizzy pish at ten times the price of Belgrade is though 😯
Look, can not say I am a real expert, simply like to talk about things I don't know much about from time to time. I'm usually happy to be corrected. But I was under impression USA are quite non reliant on foreign sources of fuel. I'd bet at least a part of the reason prices in the USA went a bit up is not because of some kind of a shortage in supply, but because someone decided so.
Regarding Dubrovnik, it is a case of "they will sell something for as much as someone will pay for it". Same thing as with San Marco square in Venice for example. If you want to pay a fortune for a coffee, it is on you.
I've mostly avoided Dubrovnik. Have been there a couple of times, took a walk around. Had something to drink once or twice and that is it.
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 22, 2022, 08:46:01 PM
I have friends in Dubrovnik and I always have a wonder at how they survive on the shitty Croatian wages there. It's expensive as phuck, even for Western Europeans... Doesn't help that some of the bastids like short changing you on your Kunas too.
Zagreb was far far better value for money. Although it's not on the coast...
Many's a dope got ripped off on that Dubrovnik wall. Not me though, I brought my own guide.. 8)
That is just the reality.......You'll get ripped off in countless places on the Croatian coast. The key is to avoid the more known places. Like anywhere else basically, I'd say.....
I like to avoid the Croatian coast for most of times. If you are interested in the sea, go to a smaller place and enjoy the sun. If you want to visit a lot of restaurants, drink in the bars, nightclubs....you'd be better off somewhere else. Weed and speed are cheap though.
And yeah, you've mentioned having a local guide in Dubrovnik. That always comes handy, right? Again, like anywhere else.
Cross the border into Montenegro and it's party time at much less damage to the pocket.
Even better is Nîs. Even though it's a bit of a shithole, the craic is 90 and if you have 10,000 dinars in your pocket, you are Prince Lazar resurrected. Some of the best quality women to be had worldwide live there also.
Speaking of bang for your buck, I'm going to be in Bordeaux for a day in a few weeks. How badly am I going to get pumped Chris? At least in Paris it's kind of funny getting charged 20 quid for two coffees and a bottle of water and the waiter keeps a straight face.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 23, 2022, 05:31:15 AM
Cross the border into Montenegro and it's party time at much less damage to the pocket.
Even better is Nîs. Even though it's a bit of a shithole, the craic is 90 and if you have 10,000 dinars in your pocket, you are Prince Lazar resurrected. Some of the best quality women to be had worldwide live there also.
I was just driving through Montenegro once, but have never visited properly.
Girls in Nis are yummy and the food delicious!! I just love the place.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 22, 2022, 06:46:14 PM
Dunno lad, they seem to be experiencing quite severe hikes in prices, at least for petrol.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/03/08/business/us-gas-prices-record.amp.html
Granted, the two times I've been there in a rental car, the prices were way lower than Irish ones (offset by laughably uneconomical to run motors), so I find it hard to be too sympathetic when that 4.25 gallon is costing me double that here.
I'm living in Chile at the moment and there's heaps of huge American pickups everywhere here. I've no idea how anyone can afford to be putting petrol into the likes of a 6.2L F-150 Raptor. As an aside red indicators on some American yokes have to be the most retarded idea ever. It just looks like you've got a bollixed brake light instead of signalling a turn.
You engineering in Chile? A lot of Spanish lads head over there on short to medium term contracts.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 24, 2022, 06:49:01 AM
You engineering in Chile? A lot of Spanish lads head over there on short to medium term contracts.
Nah I'm not engineering. My wife is Chilean, she got offered a decent career opportunity back home so we said we'd give it a go!
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 23, 2022, 05:36:48 AM
Speaking of bang for your buck, I'm going to be in Bordeaux for a day in a few weeks. How badly am I going to get pumped Chris? At least in Paris it's kind of funny getting charged 20 quid for two coffees and a bottle of water and the waiter keeps a straight face.
It's noticeably cheaper than Paris, but you're still going to feel ripped off coming from Spain. As warhead was saying, there are plenty of cities where you can get totally ripped off in certain places if you really want to pay it. Like in Paris, I would never have a coffee on a "terrasse" anywhere within earshot, let alone line of sight, of any of the tourist traps. But it's true that in Paris you do find high prices even in unlikely places.
...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 24, 2022, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 23, 2022, 05:36:48 AM
Speaking of bang for your buck, I'm going to be in Bordeaux for a day in a few weeks. How badly am I going to get pumped Chris? At least in Paris it's kind of funny getting charged 20 quid for two coffees and a bottle of water and the waiter keeps a straight face.
It's noticeably cheaper than Paris, but you're still going to feel ripped off coming from Spain. As warhead was saying, there are plenty of cities where you can get totally ripped off in certain places if you really want to pay it. Like in Paris, I would never have a coffee on a "terrasse" anywhere within earshot, let alone line of sight, of any of the tourist traps. But it's true that in Paris you do find high prices even in unlikely places.
The last electricity bill and the wheel kicking anger of petrol station stops has me feeling ripped off here! Last time I was in France was going over to St Lary for one day when I was on holidays in the Pyrenees just hégire Covid. Everything double price effectively.
Biden is a gaffe machine. His handlers keep trying to 'contextualise' his comments, but the headlines all screech 'Putin cannot stay in power'. Ah but listen he's speaking from the heart, God bless him.
That's going to put the shits up Russians, ultimately galvanising them.
Don't these assholes have teleprompters?
He'd be funny if he wasn't so dangerous. The Hunter laptop stuff is hilarious though and so far not nearly as damning as it was promised to be.
Fox etc blew it way out of proportion, so an inevitable damp squib.
Read a cool quote from Bismarck yesterday, 'never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied'.
https://www.businesspost.ie/construction/construction-firms-threaten-to-down-tools-on-roads-and-housing-schemes-3abb4eee
Was mentioned a bit here but yeah
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 24, 2022, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on March 23, 2022, 05:36:48 AM
Speaking of bang for your buck, I'm going to be in Bordeaux for a day in a few weeks. How badly am I going to get pumped Chris? At least in Paris it's kind of funny getting charged 20 quid for two coffees and a bottle of water and the waiter keeps a straight face.
It's noticeably cheaper than Paris, but you're still going to feel ripped off coming from Spain. As warhead was saying, there are plenty of cities where you can get totally ripped off in certain places if you really want to pay it. Like in Paris, I would never have a coffee on a "terrasse" anywhere within earshot, let alone line of sight, of any of the tourist traps. But it's true that in Paris you do find high prices even in unlikely places.
I'll be going to France for an extended weekend in late June, to Paris among other places. I'm already dreading of prospect of having to pay a fortune for bloody crepe, not to mention something more substantial. I'm taking my family to some small festival to see Alice Cooper and then to Paris a day after for Iron Maiden. It will cripple me financially :-)
What a fucking mess this war is. So we have Musrat soldiers fighting for Russia shouting "Alluha Snakbar" while trying to flush out 'Nazis' fighting for Ukraine who are backed by Joos :laugh:
Gimme that fookin big red button :abbath:
Grrr, bothersome complexity!
Us Irish certainly are...
lol
Imagine having lived as an adult through the property bubble and still trying to claim that its migrants who inflate housing costs. Absolute mush for brains, liquefied daily.
But was the influx of cheap foreign labourers in the early 2000s not instrumental to the creation of said bubble in this country?
Not blaming the foreigners either because who'd blame someone for going to a country where the wages are worth quadruple back home? Irish lads would certainly do the exact same but migrants certainly did have an effect as I see it because plenty of those houses would never have been thrown up without them as we simply wouldn't have had the workforce to make it happen.
Economics: supply and demand.
More supply, less demand, price goes down.
Unless someone interferes.
Did migrant labourers interfere?
No.
Migrants have not historically played any major role in inflating house prices in Ireland.
Very Irish cunts have.
Yeah, my mates on the building sites are always regaling me with all the tales of having the craic with Tariq, Mo, Afamefuna, Kwami and the rest of the lads when they're throwing up blocks and slabs all day long :laugh:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 30, 2022, 12:16:21 PM
Economics: supply and demand.
More supply, less demand, price goes down.
Unless someone interferes.
Did migrant labourers interfere?
No.
Migrants have not historically played any major role in inflating house prices in Ireland.
Very Irish cunts have.
You can't honestly tell me we'd have gotten all those houses built without the Eastern European lads. I worked on the sites with them. It isn't about blaming them, it's about accepting it simply couldn't have been done without them.
Also, almost all of those houses were built on unsustainable credit and it wasn't as simple as supply and demand. The demand would have been imaginary if it hadn't been the wild west of mortgage approval and planning permission at the time, and didn't that come home to roost in spectacular fashion? I'd blame the Irish for that if it hadn't been a multinational phenomenon but yes the Irish cunts are absolute cunts, for the avoidance of doubt.
Edit: sort of answering the point you didn't make, reading back. Sort of. It's far too simple to just blame the Irish for that one and obviously the foreign workers can't be held responsible for having jobs either.
Between 2004 and 2010 Fianna Fail built 33705 years social houses. From 2011 to 2018 when Fine Gael were in power only 15320 social houses were built. And were living with those bullshit policies to this day.
Edit. Double post.
Thomas Sowell makes an interesting argument against state intervention in one of his books, at least as far as the rental market goes. Here is a video excerpt
https://youtu.be/hVwLnnseIAU
I know he's one of the darlings of the counter culture conservatives, but still, he talks a lot of sense.
Social housing brings its own set of problems, as we've seen throughout the history of our state and others. Berliners have it sussed, no 'my life goal is to own a house' stuff. I'm under no illusion that if I stop paying the mortgage I'll realise very quickly who owns the gaff.
Quote from: astfgyl on March 30, 2022, 02:33:53 PM
You can't honestly tell me we'd have gotten all those houses built without the Eastern European lads. I worked on the sites with them. It isn't about blaming them, it's about accepting it simply couldn't have been done without them.
Also, almost all of those houses were built on unsustainable credit and it wasn't as simple as supply and demand. The demand would have been imaginary if it hadn't been the wild west of mortgage approval and planning permission at the time, and didn't that come home to roost in spectacular fashion? I'd blame the Irish for that if it hadn't been a multinational phenomenon but yes the Irish cunts are absolute cunts, for the avoidance of doubt.
Edit: sort of answering the point you didn't make, reading back. Sort of. It's far too simple to just blame the Irish for that one and obviously the foreign workers can't be held responsible for having jobs either.
The supply and demand point was that, as long as migrant workers were building more houses than they were occupying, economics says they can't logically be identified as the cause of inflating house prices. And, indeed, they weren't and aren't the cause. Other parties are.
It'd be like blaming slaves in the US if there had been an increase in the cost of material for clothes.
The big Green Scam...
Wind turbine blades going into landfill.......yup really green.........Garbage......but garbage where someone is making a lot of money......
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 30, 2022, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on March 30, 2022, 02:33:53 PM
You can't honestly tell me we'd have gotten all those houses built without the Eastern European lads. I worked on the sites with them. It isn't about blaming them, it's about accepting it simply couldn't have been done without them.
Also, almost all of those houses were built on unsustainable credit and it wasn't as simple as supply and demand. The demand would have been imaginary if it hadn't been the wild west of mortgage approval and planning permission at the time, and didn't that come home to roost in spectacular fashion? I'd blame the Irish for that if it hadn't been a multinational phenomenon but yes the Irish cunts are absolute cunts, for the avoidance of doubt.
Edit: sort of answering the point you didn't make, reading back. Sort of. It's far too simple to just blame the Irish for that one and obviously the foreign workers can't be held responsible for having jobs either.
The supply and demand point was that, as long as migrant workers were building more houses than they were occupying, economics says they can't logically be identified as the cause of inflating house prices. And, indeed, they weren't and aren't the cause. Other parties are.
Yeah that was the edit, I got that but I'd it said then. Once I read back I wondered why I'd bothered weighing in at all but sure fuck it
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 30, 2022, 05:04:58 PM
It'd be like blaming slaves in the US if there had been an increase in the cost of material for clothes.
Not quite. These lads got full pay and a better standard of living rather than the kunta kinte treatment
I'm practising gratuitous hyperbole.
I'll be keeping my Hog and diesel van. I'll also be keeping my wood burning stove too,the way heating and electric costs have gone. https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/02/09/lithium-mining-and-the-hidden-environmental-costs-of-evs/
H'up Russia. Fuck these cunts...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 30, 2022, 10:32:54 PM
I'm practising gratuitous hyperbole.
😂 I can lend you my notes if you like!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on March 31, 2022, 06:41:31 AM
H'up Russia. Fuck these cunts...
You can hate said cunts in that picture (with good grievance) but H'up Russia. You're Irish I take it. Taking the side of the invader after what this country's been through. H'up Ukraine more like. Ledges defended their homeland.
"The first casualty of war is truth. Go back to sleep goyim."
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202204/1257525.shtml
Was reading this piece from a Chinese perspective, thought it was interesting to see how it's spun over there.
Remember: your Ukrainian is for life, not just for Instagram...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/some-irish-families-unable-to-cope-with-housing-ukrainian-refugees-1.4844355
Red Cross made contact with us today, we have offered room to a Ukrainian family. Fuck Russia is right, scumbags looking at what they've left behind them in Ukraine
Quote from: Don Gately on April 05, 2022, 05:14:30 PM
Red Cross made contact with us today, we have offered room to a Ukrainian family. Fuck Russia is right, scumbags looking at what they've left behind them in Ukraine
Fair play lad for offering the room. :abbath:
Quote from: astfgyl on April 05, 2022, 10:29:30 AM
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202204/1257525.shtml
Was reading this piece from a Chinese perspective, thought it was interesting to see how it's spun over there.
That is interesting to read alright. Thanks for the share.
Why not cancel Ukraine's debt as a means of helping them out?
Read all about why not:
https://jacobinmag.com/2022/03/ukraine-foreign-debt-cancellation-imf-global-finance
Why not cancel all debt around the world? It's the same (war) mongrels it's owed to anyway...
To feck with my mortgage. I've already paid for the house in interest anyway.. :laugh:
https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1511729349204103170
Got a good laugh out of that one
The actor doing what he does best - act, with props and all.
He's quite the showman!
He's done a pretty good job galvanising his countries people to fight an invader.
Personally, I'm shocked. Leaders posing for photos, what is the world coming to? If you ask me, this is definitive proof that everything Putin has ever said is the truth. Vladimir "George Washington" Putin I'm going to start calling his bare-chested, bare-back horseriding "Oh my, is that a camera you've got? I'm not even dressed!" self.
T'wud remind you of this...
Lad of course there's propaganda but Russia have raped and killed thousands of civilians. Come up with something better would ya.
Putin posing for for photos - "Gwan Vlad de lad!"
Zelensky posing for photos - "don't believe the media!"
The photos of Zelensky are less a problem than what comes out of his mouth.
Both sides 'kill claims' are bordering on the absurd, and will become much harder to defend as the conflict goes on.
Quote from: Trev on April 14, 2022, 09:31:46 AM
Putin posing for for photos - "Gwan Vlad de lad!"
Zelensky posing for photos - "don't believe the media!"
Aye Putin bare chested on a horse. Oh he's a boyo. You couldn't make it up.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 14, 2022, 09:41:04 AM
The photos of Zelensky are less a problem than what comes out of his mouth.
Both sides 'kill claims' are bordering on the absurd, and will become much harder to defend as the conflict goes on.
Most of the media I've seen have been pretty upfront that both sides are jacking the numbers as part of the propaganda war. From the "within the conflict" point of view, it's not a case of "defending" the numbers, just a case of whether they're producing the desired effect or not.
What I mean by that is the Russians are very close to claiming to have destroyed more than the entire inventory of Ukrainian armour already.
Conversely, Zelensky is blowing Russian fatalities out of all proportion.
Nevertheless there has never been a conflict in recorded history where this kind of bullshitting hasn't occurred, although not usually to the laughable figures these boyz are rolling out.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 14, 2022, 12:53:50 PM
What I mean by that is the Russians are very close to claiming to have destroyed more than the entire inventory of Ukrainian armour already.
Conversely, Zelensky is blowing Russian fatalities out of all proportion.
Nevertheless there has never been a conflict in recorded history where this kind of bullshitting hasn't occurred, although not usually to the laughable figures these boyz are rolling out.
Well, you have to realize this war is not going on only on the field, but online too, with the online warriors outnumbering the soldiers big time.
Metal Warfare is proud to announce the grand opening of
*Drum Roll*
KC's Shit Pit!
KC's Shit Pit is an exciting new board on the forum to capture any future posts by KC so you can view them all in one great place! No longer will you need to browse through several different topics hoping to be delighted when you stumble upon his latest murmurings, as you know they'll all be located in Metal Warfare's exclusive VIP area. The best part is it's free! By default this feature is hidden away, but you can enable it by navigating to:
Profile > account settings > modify profile > group membership > then clicking "join group" under "shit pit". Alternatively you can click the link below then "join group" and you'll see the new board appear at the bottom of the main forum.
https://forum.metalwarfare.com/index.php?action=profile;area=groupmembership;msg=free
Haha. Congrats KC. All your hard work is getting the recognition it deserves.
😂
That reminds me, the "ignore list" is a handy tool, done!
https://youtu.be/zi8wxpzTvY4
Now we're not all fucked, we're saved!
Joined the shit pit there. There's nothing in it but the hilarity of having it on my main page can't be underestimated
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2022, 11:49:09 AM
https://youtu.be/zi8wxpzTvY4
Now we're not all fucked, we're saved!
They should write one about the widespread and toxic opposition to an African American entrepreneur trying to open up a social media to all voices :)
Quote from: Caomhaoin on April 16, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2022, 11:49:09 AM
https://youtu.be/zi8wxpzTvY4
Now we're not all fucked, we're saved!
They should write one about the widespread and toxic opposition to an African American entrepreneur trying to open up a social media to all voices :)
Nah sure he can't be African American if he's not black lol
.
It should be noted that the bauld Bono is a graduate of the WEFs young global leader programme, so we know what agenda he supports.
Re. KCs shit pit - I just joined it there too because he is one of the few posters here whos posts I find entertaining and, just my opinion, but I think the lads who complained about their content and choose to take umbrage or offence to said posts are a bunch of slack-jawed fuckwitted nancyboys. Again, just my opinion.
Quote from: astfgyl on April 16, 2022, 11:49:09 AM
https://youtu.be/zi8wxpzTvY4
Now we're not all fucked, we're saved!
Didn't even turn the sound on, but it's got interestingly fuck all views given it's U2, it's about Ukraine, and it's been up for 8 days. Probably best for everyone involved.
Zizek, "War in a world that stands for nothing"
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/russia-ukraine-war-highlights-truths-about-global-capitalism-by-slavoj-zizek-2022-04
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0508/1296762-bono-ukraine-latest/
We're even more fucked now
Quote from: astfgyl on May 08, 2022, 10:46:19 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2022/0508/1296762-bono-ukraine-latest/
We're even more fucked now
Well, there's the next propaganda video from Russia sorted. "The West accuses us of doing hideous acts in Ukraine. But the same West happily inflicted Bono on the poor Ukrainians. Heartless inhuman bastards. "
Yes the situation in Kiev has taken a turn for the worse. Using psychological warfare on their own citizens.
Seriously though, this is getting fucking ridiculous.
Monkeys are a great ride I'd say.
https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0519/1299866-monkeypox/
The first case in Britain was someone who had traveled from Nigeria....The WHO said it was also investigating that many cases reported were people identifying as gay, bisexual or men who have sex with men.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TansuYegen/status/1539499286265745408
Interesting bit of a graph here is all. Any reason countries didn't stockpile oil when it was at record lows in 2020? Simple capacity issue maybe?
The Chinese are stocking up on discounted Russian crude rather than 'Stand with Ukraine'.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on June 22, 2022, 04:39:25 PM
The Chinese are stocking up on discounted Russian crude rather than 'Stand with Ukraine'.
Would you expect anything else from them though. They don't give a fuck about most of their own population never mind anyone else's.
Story I was reading was that India are buying the Russian oil and selling it to Europe. The right way to punish Putin in my book and a great way to honour the name of Ben Stiller
Quote from: Ollkiller on June 22, 2022, 05:53:29 PMQuote from: Caomhaoin on June 22, 2022, 04:39:25 PMThe Chinese are stocking up on discounted Russian crude rather than 'Stand with Ukraine'.
Would you expect anything else from them though. They don't give a fuck about most of their own population never mind anyone else's.
https://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-beach-bleach-5847170-Aug2022/
Maybe
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1562866166506614784
"A world without climate change"? Pull the other one. Is there anyone who truly believes the climate wouldn't change without human intervention? Seriously.
Quote from: astfgyl on August 26, 2022, 11:20:29 AMhttps://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1562866166506614784
"A world without climate change"? Pull the other one. Is there anyone who truly believes the climate wouldn't change without human intervention? Seriously.
Climate over millennia does change of course. Only this time were accelerating the change.
it doesn't take millennia for climate to change to the degree we're seeing. Look at the last hundred years how it has ebbed and flowed. it also can't be measured by an extreme event such as the one that the article refers to. They are called extreme for a reason, if they become far more common then they're not extreme anymore they are the norm. I think people should be thinking about weatherproofing rather than changing the weather because that's hubris in the extreme. Please don't conflate that with my opinion on making things cleaner and less polluting which I'm all for but I think we should all learn to be careful of modelling and treating it like prophesy.
The norm for the Sahara is extreme, doesn't make it any less extreme. I know what you mean about frequency, but extreme also relates to ability to survive in the face of.
A lot of the weatherproofing measures, if done properly, would also contribute to removing carbon from the atmosphere and even trap it before it got there. People talk a lot about "planting trees", but we know that if trees are just planted all together in massive monoculture forests somewhere, that's not an optimal use. Trees can be used to weatherproof cities, for example. Bordeaux, a place where extreme ;) temperatures above 40° are slowly but surely becoming the norm in summer, would benefit massively from planting rake loads of trees around the city. And regarding flooding, they can also be used to hold soil in place around cities and towns at risk, which can do a lot to help curb mudslides, etc.
Personally, I think folk would better serve themselves and the planet if they directed their skepticism away from the models and towards the solutions being proposed.
Big time on the planting of trees in cities. A natural way to cool cities.
I'm all for planting more trees, be it around cities and other urban centres or planting new forests for the future. I'm completely biased as I find forests to be my preferred natural environment. I think new housing estates should be designed to be 50% housing and 50% trees- or more accurately all of the otherwise green space should be planted up with trees so maybe 70/30.. It would just be an epic kind of place to live in and would benefit people in terms of mental health (not counting all the inevitable rapes and murders that would undoubtedly occur under their cover, but sure), it would be good for the air between cooling and carbon capture and it would also benefit biodiversity.
I could never understand the Green party position of tackling climate change through some pretty tough measures, some of which would certainly decrease the quality of life we have been used but in the same vein, be very pro population growth. Same goes for talking about electricity shortages while approving data centres around the country. No one likes to say it without being labelled as a right winger but in reality it's absolutely impossible for infrastructure to keep up with inward migration numbers like this ->
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-population-2022-5848121-Aug2022/
If you think the current generation are screwed the next crop will be taking a steep downward dive.
https://cityedge.ie/
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/dublin-news/ambitious-50-year-plan-to-transform-west-dublin-and-create-40000-new-homes-is-unveiled-41916956.html
Ireland is way behind most other countries with regards to developments like that. On the surface at least, that looks to be the equivalent of Milton Keynes. Maybe there'll be some cool concerts there!
Quote from: The Butcher on August 26, 2022, 09:58:56 PMhttps://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-population-2022-5848121-Aug2022/
Interesting to look at the details of those immigration figures too, since many people assume a certain thing when they hear the word "immigration" and for some reason that tends to send them into a panicked brain fog:
Quote120,700 [immigrants] arriving into the country in the last 12 months.
...28,900 of those immigrants being returning Irish nationals.
...24,300 EU nationals, 4,500 UK nationals and the remaining 63,000 [including almost 28,000 Ukrainians] from countries outside the EU.
Romania is in the EU. As is Slovakia. Both have large Roma populations who are, for the most part, despised by the native population and therefore they look to emigrate (understandably). Their way of life is not easily digested in Western Europe. I was in Paris a few years ago and they are a fucking plague if you are a tourist. If you don't stick the chest out and tell them to fuck off quite assertively, you're in for a dose.
A lot of 'Ukrainian' refugees are anything but.
If you have 1000+ families living in hotel rooms, living on pot noodles and kids having to sit on the bed to do their homework (anyone with a child or children could imagine the psychological effect of this on the entire family), surely the government's priority should be to address this and similar issues.
Genuine refugees etc have my sympathy, but flying them over here in enormous numbers is counterproductive on several levels. We can't house our own population, students can't get a gaff and clogging up hotels at eye watering expense in small town Ireland is a recipe for disaster.
As much as a lot of Sinn Féin's embracing of and pandering to the post modernists turns my stomach, I'd still consider voting for them as they are promising to do something about the atrocious housing situation.
Brain fog or not, it's certainly not as benign as you are implying.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 26, 2022, 05:27:38 PMThe norm for the Sahara is extreme, doesn't make it any less extreme. I know what you mean about frequency, but extreme also relates to ability to survive in the face of.
A lot of the weatherproofing measures, if done properly, would also contribute to removing carbon from the atmosphere and even trap it before it got there. People talk a lot about "planting trees", but we know that if trees are just planted all together in massive monoculture forests somewhere, that's not an optimal use. Trees can be used to weatherproof cities, for example. Bordeaux, a place where extreme ;) temperatures above 40° are slowly but surely becoming the norm in summer, would benefit massively from planting rake loads of trees around the city. And regarding flooding, they can also be used to hold soil in place around cities and towns at risk, which can do a lot to help curb mudslides, etc.
Personally, I think folk would better serve themselves and the planet if they directed their skepticism away from the models and towards the solutions being proposed.
I think that's the first time I've ever fully agreed with something you said in off topic.
Tis more important by far than anything else we ever discuss in here too, so you could say we agree on the essentials! :laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 27, 2022, 07:58:45 AMBrain fog or not, it's certainly not as benign as you are implying.
Not implying it's benign, but folk have to deal with actual reality: there is only one single action that can be taken to reduce numbers of EU citizen immigrants to Ireland, whether they be Romany or Romans, and that is to leave the EU. There's somewhere around 500,000 Irish people, as in born in Ireland citizens, living abroad in the EU. Maybe between 2/3 and 3/4 of all Irish born emigrants around the world (according to the figures in the article posted above). So the benefits are being spread both ways. And we're just not going to be leaving the EU, so forget about it, it's not even worth talking about.
How the influx is being dealt with, the housing crisis, etc., etc., that's all a different matter and it's a holy fucking show, we all know that. But the fact remains, and probably will never, ever change; there would be far more people in Ireland had none of us ever emigrated and no one ever immigrated. In other words, housing problems have nothing to do with immigration, because those same problems would be even worse without emigration. And I'm not going back to the famine. The same would be the case even if you only counted from the 80s.
I agree the housing situation would be there regardless. But the immigration situation is an aggravating factor.
I don't think leaving the EU would stop much, just ask the Brits!
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2022/08/eu-migration-has-plummeted-since-brexit
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 27, 2022, 12:15:23 PMI agree the housing situation would be there regardless. But the immigration situation is an aggravating factor.
I mean, I just showed you numerically that it isn't an aggravating factor, because immigration and emigration, in the case of Ireland, literally go hand in hand. Or else, yeah, we could continue being the shitty 80s country that people only leave and nobody in their right mind would want to move to. Would that be better?
Back to the trees and greening I'm entirely for those types of solutions rather than letting rich folk and massive corporations buy carbon credits and pass on the tax to the poor and the customers. There's lots of great things we can be doing but the profiteering will be strong and I'm not for that at all. Let the companies pay but shave off the top profits
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2022, 11:17:08 AMQuote from: Caomhaoin on August 27, 2022, 07:58:45 AMBrain fog or not, it's certainly not as benign as you are implying.
Not implying it's benign, but folk have to deal with actual reality: there is only one single action that can be taken to reduce numbers of EU citizen immigrants to Ireland, whether they be Romany or Romans, and that is to leave the EU. There's somewhere around 500,000 Irish people, as in born in Ireland citizens, living abroad in the EU. Maybe between 2/3 and 3/4 of all Irish born emigrants around the world (according to the figures in the article posted above). So the benefits are being spread both ways. And we're just not going to be leaving the EU, so forget about it, it's not even worth talking about.
How the influx is being dealt with, the housing crisis, etc., etc., that's all a different matter and it's a holy fucking show, we all know that. But the fact remains, and probably will never, ever change; there would be far more people in Ireland had none of us ever emigrated and no one ever immigrated. In other words, housing problems have nothing to do with immigration, because those same problems would be even worse without emigration. And I'm not going back to the famine. The same would be the case even if you only counted from the 80s.
Reducing immigrant numbers to only those needed in the country could be achieved by completely removing access to welfare and state assistance for the first five years. Also having enough in a locked account to deport ones self in an emergency would be good. Australian type points system would be good too.
Grand. But none of that could ever be applied to EU citizens without Ireland leaving the EU. And the Irish citizenry as a whole get more out of that situation than Ireland gives (as in, there are more Irish citizens living abroad in the EU than there are non-Irish EU citizens living in Ireland). I know that can be perceived as an unbalanced situation by some Irish still living in Ireland, but the failings of the government have nothing to do with the numbers of immigrants. They're just failures of a succession of governments who would have fucked things up out of cronyism and back-handers regardless of numbers of residents. I just don't buy that immigration is even in a top 5 of things that most urgently need sorting out. FG and FF have been fucking shit up since long before immigration to Ireland was a thing at all.
I've long since said that the EU should be a trade agreement and nothing more. European people and Irish people were well able to work abroad before it existed. Filling out a visa application beforehand wouldn't kill anyone. Trimming the fat immigration wise would sort out the housing crisis rapidly and could go some way towards taking pressure off an overburden health system.
Quote from: hellfire on August 28, 2022, 03:40:12 PMI've long since said that the EU should be a trade agreement and nothing more. European people and Irish people were well able to work abroad before it existed. Filling out a visa application beforehand wouldn't kill anyone. Trimming the fat immigration wise would sort out the housing crisis rapidly and could go some way towards taking pressure off an overburden health system.
Ah yeah there's that far right I keep hearing about with their practical solutions
They're only practical solutions if they're solutions. And it's questionable that they are that. This point about the reality of the world doesn't seem to be getting through: even if Ireland was allowed to introduce stiffer immigration rules for EU citizens wishing to come, these would be reciprocated by other EU countries, which would make it more difficult for Irish people to move to them or to stay there if already there. In other words, there's a very real chance as many if not more Irish people would have to move back home as non-Irish people would have to leave under those conditions. Result? Housing situation remains exactly the same.
I'm not against immigration at all sure half my mates are immigrants somewhere else but there's a debate which won't be had there about taking in massive numbers when it's not exactly top notch for our own. A debate though, I don't have the proper answer
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 28, 2022, 06:19:54 PMThey're only practical solutions if they're solutions. And it's questionable that they are that. This point about the reality of the world doesn't seem to be getting through: even if Ireland was allowed to introduce stiffer immigration rules for EU citizens wishing to come, these would be reciprocated by other EU countries, which would make it more difficult for Irish people to move to them or to stay there if already there. In other words, there's a very real chance as many if not more Irish people would have to move back home as non-Irish people would have to leave under those conditions. Result? Housing situation remains exactly the same.
You're assuming that every country would send all of those immigrants home. Countries have no interest in kicking people out who are useful to the economy. It was the same argument that was frequently brought up before brexit, it never materialised. I can imagine the numbers of unskilled, unemployable and criminals would dwindle.
Deportation orders need to be enforced here too. The amount of people here working for below minimum wage off the books is neither good for them or the country.
The worst Moroccans and Romanians in the world live in Madrid. Ive been to both countries, and no bother, sound boyz and relatively normal, functioning countries. Moroccans here in particular have a dreadful and justified reputation for petty crime. So you are probably right.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 27, 2022, 11:17:08 AMInteresting to look at the details of those immigration figures too, since many people assume a certain thing when they hear the word "immigration" and for some reason that tends to send them into a panicked brain fog:
There's somewhere around 500,000 Irish people, as in born in Ireland citizens, living abroad in the EU. Maybe between 2/3 and 3/4 of all Irish born emigrants around the world (according to the figures in the article posted above). So the benefits are being spread both ways.
The Irish numbers are basically irrelevant - 28k returned while 27k left - Net is what matters and it was 61k to April. Doesn't matter where they came from either whether its EU or non EU really. There is an imbalance though being an island of our size - plus 17% of the population is foreign born, far more than the 500k Irish you mentioned.
https://www.oecd.org/migration/integration-indicators-2012/keyindicatorsbycountry/name,218334,en.htm
QuoteAnd we're just not going to be leaving the EU, so forget about it, it's not even worth talking about.
Honestly it should be part of the discussion for our MEPs to put forward. I think we should be allowed to put in hard limits against how many can arrive at least you can plan and say we need X number of housing/infrastructure because we have Y number of migrants this year, next year etc. To be against something like that is being disingenuous. Issue permits annually like Canada did. If nothing happens there is a real risk down the line esp with our current housing issues, it's going to turn people against the EU totally, a bit like Brexit. People will ask those questions, why can't the EU just be about trade, does it have to be about borders too. We are running that risk year on year, allowing that "brain fog" to develop, there is no way you can wave it away when you are not being able to get accommodation when you are working. It's a massive failure. If that is the cost of being in the EU then who benefits? Because it's at the cost of everyone else.
Plus the majority of housing units we build now are 1 bed shoe boxes. That's not a future I'm looking forward to.
13.8% in 2022, according to the stats from the article you posted. The 17% was a decade ago, in 2012, so by all accounts the number has net decreased, and significantly, in only 10 years. Plus, the 500k Irish abroad is in the EU only, whereas the 13.8% is all foreign born. Details really matter here.
'Housing Units'. What a horrible expression, but totally accurate. Life savings + 25 year mortgage for a glorified bedsit. What's the alternative? Competing with 20 and 30 other lads for a room in a house share. You get to a certain stage in life and that's just unfeasable.
Not saying owning a house is the be all and end all (it certainly isn't) but lads would want to start saving after their communions at home if they ever hope to own a decent family home in the looming future, unless something drastic happens to change the situation.
Like I said before, I can't stand listening to Mary Lou and her cronies going on about the current thing(s), but if they have a solid plan to get houses built and get families into them, fuck it, vote the cunts in.
The thing is, with Sinn Féin they have the advantage of using cemtex to dig the foundations, which speeds up the process immeasurably. And they can use what's left over to blast through any pesky red tape.
The continuity housing plan, they could call it.
Sounds real enough to me.
I think it's Semtex, with an 's'.
I'm nitpicking though, comedy gold boyz :)
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpr/censusofpopulation2022-preliminaryresults/
QuoteOccupied homes 1,858,526
Vacancy Rate 8%
Vacant Homes 166,752
Fuckin' immigrants, coming over here, vacating our homes!
Yeah sure commute from Leitrim, not a bother.
House prices, rental conditions and the most basic breakdown of the 'vacancies' are absent.
Sure those queues outside houses for rent in Dublin are just Russian disinformation.
So that proves fuck all.
Here's the breakdown:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cpr/censusofpopulation2022-preliminaryresults/housing/
An important part of it:
QuoteMore than 30% (48,387) of the dwellings vacant in 2022 that could be linked were also vacant in 2016. And of these 48,387 dwellings, nearly half (23,483) were also vacant in Census 2011.
The queues in Dublin are real enough, of course. At least some part of the reason for them is the long-term lack of development elsewhere in the country. Like, say, in Leitrim! ;)
Edit: Population of Dublin now accounts for 28.5% of the entire population and rising. That is ridiculous and a major sign of the failure of successive governments to adequately develop the rest of the country.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 29, 2022, 11:37:08 AM13.8% in 2022, according to the stats from the article you posted. The 17% was a decade ago, in 2012, so by all accounts the number has net decreased, and significantly, in only 10 years. Plus, the 500k Irish abroad is in the EU only, whereas the 13.8% is all foreign born. Details really matter here.
Can't find anything more recent than 2016 which set the figures at 1/6 Irish born living abroad but only 1/9 people living in Ireland non-Irish. Ireland at the time had the highest proportion of any EU country's population living abroad. There may have been a bit of difference since then, but highly unlikely the bottom line has changed: more Irish born currently living abroad than non-Irish living in Ireland.
It'd take some doing, no disrespect to Leitrim.
This is the problem with statistics like those above. Technically correct, but laughable to the thousands who can't get adequate accommodation, especially in Dublin. Maybe a mass social housing programme is a solution, but that brings myriad problems in and if itself. I have a few friends in Germany, and none of them own or are interested in owning a gaff as they have fixity of tenure. Copy the krauts I say.
These FF/FG pricks are paid to solve these problems, and they are failing to do so spectacularly.
There's nothing wrong with the statistics. Overall, they say what Irish people have been saying forever; more development is needed outside Dublin. That this hasn't been done, even when houses were being thrown up all over the gaff pre 2008, is a systemic failure of successive FF and FG governments and nothing to do with recent immigration. Had they fixed it when they should have, we wouldn't be the EU country with the highest percentage of its population living abroad. That's nothing to be proud of.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 29, 2022, 02:03:05 PMThere's nothing wrong with the statistics. Overall, they say what Irish people have been saying forever; more development is needed outside Dublin.
Yeah, spent a few weeks over the summer out West, going around Mayo and Sligo. The amount of half empty villages, derelict cottages, unfinished houses...pretty depressing.
I was hoping with more people working from home things might improve, but most companies seem insistent on getting people needlessly back to the office a few days each week
Yeah, and on that it should be pointed out that in the figures of vacant homes, two key categories aren't included: holiday houses (there's around 66,000 of them) and unfinished houses... who knows how many of them there are.
https://news.mit.edu/2022/aluminum-sulfur-battery-0824
This could be quite useful in helping us to be less fucked
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 29, 2022, 11:37:08 AM13.8% in 2022, according to the stats from the article you posted. The 17% was a decade ago, in 2012, so by all accounts the number has net decreased, and significantly, in only 10 years. Plus, the 500k Irish abroad is in the EU only, whereas the 13.8% is all foreign born. Details really matter here.
The percentage is lower granted but the number is still higher than Irish 500k...looking further into it the 13.8% isn't exact either if we go by Eurostat data, so the actual number hasn't decreased significantly ->
https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/foreign-born-population-eurostat-data.html
Population increased to 5.1 million this year, the ppsn rate is very high etc etc.
Vacant homes decent point (goverment also spent taxpayers money on demolishing ghost estates 10 years ago which is criminal) but depends where they are so that detail is important too if you're going to throw out numbers while we nitpick everything to death. I totally agree that everything shoved in or around Dublin is a huge mistake, especially when there is feck all reason, you swear we have ore/mining going on in Dublin. It's basically just office jobs that could be anywhere. When someone is very pro open borders, I never see them say what level of migration is too high, what's too much for a country of our size per year? I want a balanced, sensible approach to it - so we can plan appropriately because in reality, without any sort of proper structure in place, currently it's at the cost of everyone.
On this forum and in general we focus purely on economic arguments. Following on from The Butchers question here. At what point is immigration too high in terms of demographics. When does Cork lose what makes it Cork? White British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?
Also, just to correct some of the nonsense numbers further back.
810,406 Irish residents were born in another country in 2016 an increase of 43,636 on 2011. I'm sure a lot of them have had kids since 2011 also. Conferring of citizenship awards tend to number into one or two thousand per ceremony also, so those numbers aren't counted.
CSO report available here (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/2017/Chapter_5_Diversity.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi98b_Wm-_5AhXUPsAKHfZJCNQQFXoECAAQAg&usg=AOvVaw1MmtuqM-t3fyqWqyAE8kpF)
Totally valid point, but many people are scared stiff to even bring it up.
You can imagine the outcry if Mumbai or Lagos were flooded with poor, unskilled and troublesome white immigrants.
It's a confidence trick on a vast scale, merely questioning unprecedented demographic shifts and non-existent enforcement of immigration laws all over Western Europe is now 'Racist', and he who utters such blasphemies is a 'far right'. It's water off a ducks back to you and I, Mick, but for most people it is not.
That BBC journalist who decried the lack of diversity in the England woman's team was rightly mocked and derided. I wonder why she doesn't ask why the Chinese or Ghanaian teams don't embrace DIVERSITY DIVERSITY DIVERSITY.
Chill out there Enoch hellfire Powell...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Percentage_of_White_Irish_in_Irish_Counties.png)
That doesn't go anywhere near addressing my point Comrade Chris. I'm not suggesting Irish people are currently an ethnic minority, but will be at some point if current trends continue.
I'm always curious about people like you. It would be interesting to know the breakdown between how much of the drivel you spout you are consciously aware is nonsense. For example when you are intentionally obfuscating or deflecting the points other people make and dragging them back to a conversation that suits you, are you consciously aware you're doing it?
Here's an exercise we can all do if we are in Ireland at the moment.
When going about your business tomorrow, count the amount of foreigners vs Irish that you pass on your way. I did this in Limerick lately but I cheated by walking through people's park where the Arabs play soccer every evening. Otherwise it was about even but cities are different than small towns so I'd expect it wouldn't be so high in the countryside.
Yet.
Also at what point are they not foreign because half of em were probably born here
Quote from: hellfire on August 30, 2022, 08:30:38 PMThat doesn't go anywhere near addressing my point Comrade Chris. I'm not suggesting Irish people are currently an ethnic minority, but will be at some point if current trends continue.
I'm always curious about people like you. It would be interesting to know the breakdown between how much of the drivel you spout you are consciously aware is nonsense. For example when you are intentionally obfuscating or deflecting the points other people make and dragging them back to a conversation that suits you, are you consciously aware you're doing it?
Am I consciously aware that we have fundamentally different outlooks on society, humanity, and life itself and that therefore every argument you throw out will appear like wilful ignorance or nonsense to me and vice versa? I am aware of that, yes. But, at the same time, I can also justifiably call dog whistling when you randomly evoke the example of London as if it is in any way, geographically but most importantly historically, comparable with Dublin. London is the center of what used to be the biggest kingdom the planet has ever known, the hub for affairs stretching east, west, south, and even north. In the aftermath of the famine, for example, Irish immigrants alone already made up around 20% of the population of London. Had you been white British there and then, think you'd have been understanding of their plight? Now, whether you take that as obfuscation or food for reflection is up to you. But we're a nation of emigrants, and I've always, long before I ever thought about leaving myself, taken that very seriously when thinking about immigration to Ireland.
Your homework is to count French people so
Less than two pages ago you insisted that immigration was more or less neutral in terms of people in and out. I believe it hit a peak ten years ago.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 29, 2022, 11:37:08 AM13.8% in 2022, according to the stats from the article you posted. The 17% was a decade ago, in 2012, so by all accounts the number has net decreased, and significantly, in only 10 years. Plus, the 500k Irish abroad is in the EU only, whereas the 13.8% is all foreign born. Details really matter here.
Then you post this when the conversation shifted slightly. Confirming that the number is in fact much higher.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 30, 2022, 08:04:47 PMChill out there Enoch hellfire Powell...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Percentage_of_White_Irish_in_Irish_Counties.png)
As for your latest warble...
The nation of emigrants argument is toss in a state with a welfare system. Should we make them sign dentures and set them hard physical work too?
The population of Ireland has increased by a fifth at a time when birth rates among Irish people are lower.
You've picked at the London example by sidewinding through history again. The history of the city is irrelevant to the numbers. Continuously increasing the number of non Irish will give you the same results. Plenty German cities are at 30%
As I've said a certain level of immigration is acceptable and even desirable. This breakneck speed immigration is not. It is a massive social experiment unprecedented in human history negative outcomes of which are already becoming apparent.
100 - 82.2 = 17.8% not 'white Irish' in 2016. On top of that will be some minuscule percentage of the Irish but not white whose numbers you seem so concerned about exploding.
We don't have that particular breakdown from the 2022 census yet, that I've seen. Just that 13% are non Irish.
"The history of the city is irrelevant to the numbers." Sure everything is irrelevant, isn't it? But then you say what we're experiencing is unprecedented in human history, a claim that obliges us to look at the human history of diasporas. Any big ones you can think of? And I'm supposedly the one moving the goalposts.
If you're going back to the famine again have a think about how that worked out for the native population of America.
Numbers mean nothing to you as you have an ideology more than an opinion. Trying to suggest that there hasnt been a massive demographic shift in Ireland probably won't gain much traction on this forum. All anyone needs to do is look out a window or walk down a street.
Of course there's been a demographic change, as we have evolved, thanks almost exclusively to aid from abroad, from a country natives had to get the fuck out of in order to survive to a country that people, including many of the natives who left, want to move to. The oddness is seeing this as a bad thing in and of itself rather than just a thing which should have been expected and managed for over the last 2 to 3 decades. But it wasn't. Is that the fault of immigration? No. It's the fault of successive stupid governments and stupider voters.
Edit: It's actually only the voters I think have been stupid, lacking in imagination, vision. The successive governments and their cronies have been smart, unfalteringly, selfishly smart all along and have done just grand for themselves.
We must set up a roster here for who's going to get into an argument with you.
As I'm not pencilled in this week I just want to point out that the initial argument was about students etc not getting accommodation and the homeless still without a home and the fact that, while the Ukrainians are not the main reason, have exacerbated the situation. This is plainly obvious, and this is from someone who would be happy to have them here IF we were in a position to do so, which we are not. You give historical reasons for things being the way they are rather than offering an opinion about what you think should be done, as things currently are. It's your modus operandi in a huge majority of your arguments. As Hellfire, quite correctly points out, it's ideology over opinion.
Anyway, I'm out til I've been rostered a slot.
Didn't all this start because I suggested a more sensible approach to managing immigration? I brought it up in the context of the housing crisis. Trimming the fat so that only those working could remain.
What do I think should be done, as things currently are, I have repeated several times; proper development projects outside of Dublin where people have access to both housing and employment. That's what everyone paying attention has been saying is needed for the last 20 years. This is the real issue, the oldest issue, the most serious issue, the deepest issue. Not immigration. Immigration is a handy new thing to distract people from the fact that the same two parties have been filling their own pockets rather than doing their jobs for time immemorial now. Want to trim fat? Look in the right fucking places.
Quote from: Emphyrio on August 31, 2022, 01:26:21 PMWe must set up a roster here for who's going to get into an argument with you.
As I'm not pencilled in this week I just want to point out that the initial argument was about students etc not getting accommodation and the homeless still without a home and the fact that, while the Ukrainians are not the main reason, have exacerbated the situation. This is plainly obvious, and this is from someone who would be happy to have them here IF we were in a position to do so, which we are not. You give historical reasons for things being the way they are rather than offering an opinion about what you think should be done, as things currently are. It's your modus operandi in a huge majority of your arguments. As Hellfire, quite correctly points out, it's ideology over opinion.
Anyway, I'm out til I've been rostered a slot.
I'm out for the rest of the week. Every now and again I get lured back in by the garish falsity of one of his arguments.
"Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
Then struts around like it won."
How much immigration into the gaff is too much?
Quote from: Emphyrio on August 31, 2022, 01:26:21 PMthis is from someone who would be happy to have them here IF we were in a position to do so
...
As Hellfire, quite correctly points out, it's ideology over opinion.
If that first statement is genuine, then you should realize it puts you at odds with the source of hellfire's arguments, which seem to be first and foremost about ethnicity and culture rather than possibility to accommodate (see, for example, his reference to the percentage of, quote, "white British" people left in London, etc.). That is his ideology, and expressions like "trimming the fat" when talking about immigrants who don't have work should make that ideology very, very evident.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on August 27, 2022, 07:58:45 AMGenuine refugees etc have my sympathy, but flying them over here in enormous numbers is counterproductive on several levels. We can't house our own population, students can't get a gaff and clogging up hotels at eye watering expense in small town Ireland is a recipe for disaster.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 31, 2022, 02:06:44 PMIf that first statement is genuine, then you should realize it puts you at odds with the source of hellfire's arguments, which seem to be first and foremost about ethnicity and culture rather than possibility to accommodate
I could very well be at odds with Hellfire but you're conflating two different points. I was addressing Kev's perfectly valid point but you went off on a tangent again. The Ukranian situation is different to migration because you'd hope, for their benefit, that they will eventually have a home to return to.
As it happens, I do disagree with Hellfire and others who maybe are less pro-EU than myself but I can certainly see their points. We need to be careful about the numbers we take in because, as you've mentioned, we can't even take care of our own due to long-term government ineptitude.
See, from my point of view, the tangent happened when folk started suggesting that the solution involved things that we will never be able to do as members of the EU. "Trimming the fat" via things like obliging people to have "enough money to deport themselves" in their bank account before coming over. The solutions I think the country needs can and should be done in the real world, not in some kind of Irexit fantasy land. And there's nothing radical or revolutionary about them either; proper development, not houses chucked up for easy profit with no plan for infrastructure. And the pricks that did that are still in government.
Ireland's response to the Ukrainian situation is typical performative politics from FF and FG; looks good on the outside, divides the voters and distracts attention from the real issues (i.e. the pricks in government themselves) on the inside. All I've been saying is that the numbers of people aren't the core problem. And all I've been dealing with is the Irish numbers, not London or Cologne, or wherever. Properly governed and managed, Ireland would not have a housing crisis at the moment, even with current numbers of immigrants, even including the Ukrainian refugees.
Quote from: hellfire on August 31, 2022, 01:34:24 PMDidn't all this start because I suggested a more sensible approach to managing immigration? I brought it up in the context of the housing crisis. Trimming the fat so that only those working could remain.
Will never happen here, we're the best boys in Europe. It's become the far right to even bring it up, which is unfortunate. I'm not against immigration either that'd be just too ironic for an Irishman but coming over on the relative gravy train has to be wrong when Irish with 2 jobs struggle to make ends meet. We'll virtue signal ourselves into the abyss the way we're going unfortunately, as will a lot of Western Europe. I don't see the political will to solve it either other than fringe parties but the longer it goes unaddressed the more residents of their own countries will be driven to the fringe to have their voices represented and that's not a good thing because the answer is mostly in the centre.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 31, 2022, 03:24:13 PMSee, from my point of view, the tangent happened when folk started suggesting that the solution involved things that we will never be able to do as members of the EU. "Trimming the fat" via things like obliging people to have "enough money to deport themselves" in their bank account before coming over. The solutions I think the country needs can and should be done in the real world, not in some kind of Irexit fantasy land. And there's nothing radical or revolutionary about them either; proper development, not houses chucked up for easy profit with no plan for infrastructure. And the pricks that did that are still in government.
Ireland's response to the Ukrainian situation is typical performative politics from FF and FG; looks good on the outside, divides the voters and distracts attention from the real issues (i.e. the pricks in government themselves) on the inside. All I've been saying is that the numbers of people aren't the core problem. And all I've been dealing with is the Irish numbers, not London or Cologne, or wherever. Properly governed and managed, Ireland would not have a housing crisis at the moment, even with current numbers of immigrants, even including the Ukrainian refugees.
That's not badly put but unless something serious is done straight away and we know it won't be, the bad feeling will continue to grow. That we brought it on ourselves over the years can't be denied either and we'd need some sort of revolution to change it, which I don't think the shinners walking the next election will turn out to be as they are equally for rolling out the red carpet.
So what do we do? Is forming militias such an unattractive prospect after all? Stay tuned for another couple of years of the government boot stamping on the Irish face and that won't sound so outlandish.
I'd be tempted by the sound of irexit myself at this stage as much as I know that wouldn't work well. It's just how fucked things are looking
Quote from: astfgyl on August 31, 2022, 03:35:19 PMThat's not badly put but unless something serious is done straight away and we know it won't be, the bad feeling will continue to grow.
Then you end up with card carrying Nazis being serious contestants in elections. Like what hapenned in Germany, Sweden, Italy, Greece and others. The debate around immigration is seen as binary. You're either extremely for or against. Clowns like the Shepherd here make it impossible for people to properly discuss anything.
I apologize if my pragmatic attachment to the real world is an obstacle to proper discussion of fantasy immigration policies that will keep Ireland white.
We are an EU member. Swallow that pill, as hard as it may be, and if you want proper discussion of how to deal with immigration, do so pragmatically, within what is possible inside that very, very concrete constraint. Ireland is not leaving the EU in our lifetimes, I'd put money on it.
Unlike gender, there is no good reason for a binary, and I believe only one poster adheres to one. Immigration is a healthy and ancient fact of life, it's always been around and it always will be.
Nevertheless, what's happening in Europe since 2015 is alarming and unsustainable, and it will become even more so. Only the globalist elite from the WEH and their useful idiot disciples could possibly disagree.
The transient and large Eastern European boyz were quite easily absorbed, as the vast majority came to work, and many fucked off home once they had the price of a house (ha, one polish lad said Irish people are ugly and stupid with money but thanks for the house). Very few voices were raised by the DUNDUN FAR RIGHT because it wasn't causing any real issues. They served a purpose, and the country to them, a net benefit. There can be no similar argument made for the current situation.
'Theresnooodooootabooooottha', as Sir Alec used to say.
Rural development/decentralisation etc is like communism and renewable energy. Sounds nice, but pie in the sky and unworkable, at least in the short to medium term. I'd argue that it's unpragmatic in the extreme.
How would you even begin to do that? I don't disagree with the sentiment, per se, but I can't see it.
Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.
The Poles came over during and contributed to the bubble. They only started leaving when it burst. Kinda essential information you omitted there Kev. Before the burst, the general sentiment was that they were here to stay, since there was no reason at the time to return home. And then POP! Very few voices were raised by the FAR RIGHT because everyone was laughing. Except the voices saying what was coming. Who were not on the far right, no.
Quote from: hellfire on August 31, 2022, 04:22:15 PMQuote from: astfgyl on August 31, 2022, 03:35:19 PMThat's not badly put but unless something serious is done straight away and we know it won't be, the bad feeling will continue to grow.
Then you end up with card carrying Nazis being serious contestants in elections. Like what hapenned in Germany, Sweden, Italy, Greece and others. The debate around immigration is seen as binary. You're either extremely for or against. Clowns like the Shepherd here make it impossible for people to properly discuss anything.
I can't see the issue with being a left leaning country and having sensible immigration policies I really can't but I don't even think it's in our hands here as part of the EU. I certainly don't see how being left leaning as I generally am that I must be happy with a free for all and I know word on the street is not a happy one around the current situation. As you say, the centrists will be leaning to the right if they think this is the left and that's not a good thing when some populist racist prick becomes the attractive option.
I do agree with the shepherd that we'll never get out of the EU though so there'll be trouble ahead for sure
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 31, 2022, 04:28:57 PMI apologize if my pragmatic attachment to the real world is an obstacle to proper discussion of fantasy immigration policies that will keep Ireland white.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 31, 2022, 04:28:57 PMI apologize if my pragmatic attachment to the real world is an obstacle to proper discussion of fantasy immigration policies that will keep Ireland white.
We are an EU member. Swallow that pill, as hard as it may be, and if you want proper discussion of how to deal with immigration, do so pragmatically, within what is possible inside that very, very concrete constraint. Ireland is not leaving the EU in our lifetimes, I'd put money on it.
Talking about you, not to you. You've had enough fun for one day. I'm sure you'll find someone else to torment, my watch has ended.
Speaking of Ireland's dire record of voting the same gobshites in over and over again, The Phoenix shared this archive picture of an issue from 1989 when Gorbachev visited:
(https://www.thephoenix.ie/wp-content/gallery/volume-07-1989/Volume-07-No-07-1989.jpg)
:laugh:
The more things change yeah
Quote from: hellfire on August 30, 2022, 07:37:57 PMWhite British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?
And what about black British people?
IMO unfettered immigration is a bad thing. Nothing wrong with having that opinion. The dog whistles aren't subtle at all though. Fuck off.
I asked that a couple of pages ago re the immigrants here. At what point do they become Irish? Had this conversation with a young polish lad lately and he didn't know the answer.
In related news lately I came across a story that white people were to be banned from Nigerian ads. Must find out if it's true or not because let's be fair everything is exaggerated these days
Quote from: The Demiurge on September 01, 2022, 02:02:46 PMQuote from: hellfire on August 30, 2022, 07:37:57 PMWhite British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?
And what about black British people?
IMO unfettered immigration is a bad thing. Nothing wrong with having that opinion. The dog whistles aren't subtle at all though. Fuck off.
What about them? And the millions of Eastern European whites. I was talking about demographics changes you ignorant little tard.
Here (https://www.ft.com/content/4bd95562-4379-11e2-a48c-00144feabdc0)
Quote from: The Demiurge on September 01, 2022, 02:02:46 PMQuote from: hellfire on August 30, 2022, 07:37:57 PMWhite British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?
And what about black British people?
IMO unfettered immigration is a bad thing. Nothing wrong with having that opinion. The dog whistles aren't subtle at all though. Fuck off.
Dog whistles? White British people, as in, the indigenous population. Some lads, you among them, can't help but get their backs up when that fact is uttered. There is nothing remotely dodgy about it. Well, there used not to be, until the whole world lost its marbles.
Indigenous since when? What's the starting date? Hugeonot descendents, are they in or out like?
Well done Demiurge. You woke the Shepard. We had finally got him to be quiet for a couple of hours.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 01, 2022, 02:42:52 PMIndigenous since when? What's the starting date? Hugeonot descendents, are they in or out like?
Here we go. If you know your history, and you've proven many times on this board that you do not, that the numbers of French Protestant refugees, over two centuries to both Ireland and Britain is insignificant, both numerically and culturally. Certainly compared to between Windrush (why is the queen of England lauding these people, are they special?) and now, DIVERSITYLAND.
.
So, you're not counting the Hugeonot descendents among the indigenous population. Cool. The Normans? Or are Saxon descendents the only real indigenous white British? They weren't the first either. You tell us Kev, if white British, as you claim, refers to the indigenous population, then who's in and who's out? Irish descendents from 150 years ago who consider themselves white British, they have to be out, right? Jesus, this is confusing.
Well, Britain/ The United Kingdom came into being in 1707 with the union of the English and Scottish parliaments, so that timeframe covers all three of those groups you've mentioned. You could argue it's 1603 with the union of the crowns, but England and Scotland remained separate entities for 104 years, albeit with a common monarch.
Irish and British people are genetically almost indistinguishable, galling as that may be to some.
It's not that complicated, in spite of the cheek reddening ignorance you're displaying.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 01, 2022, 03:08:53 PMWell, Britain/ The United Kingdom came into being in 1707
By that logic, the Indians and West Indians who migrated to England while their native lands were part of the British Empire were as much British subjects as the Irish. Certainly the English neither viewed nor received the Irish as being "their kind" at the time they arrived in the 19th century. The point is that, nonsense assertions about "indigenous population" aside, the term "white British" indicates that, in the eyes (figuratively and literally) of the person using it, children born in Britain to white immigrants are somehow more statistically representative of "Britain" than coloured people (African, Indian, West Indian, Roma, etc., descent) who could be up to fifth generation or more British. Talking about the percent of London's population that is not "white British", as opposed to simply "not British", as an indicator that London is losing its Britishness is racist, intentionally or otherwise. Ask a non-white British person! Even though he hasn't earned it, I can be charitable to someone like hellfire and presume he wasn't
intending to be racist BUT the ultimate sources responsible for an Irish lad even having stats defined in that particular way in his head, I would put money on them being white nationalist racist. In the classical BNP sense.
Financial times you overly excitable dildo. I already posted the damn link. A lot of the reason your posts are so long is because you are lying. It's much easier be brief while telling the truth.
I've made the link a vit clearer for those among us with communist eyesight.
THIS IS THE FT link (https://www.ft.com/content/4bd95562-4379-11e2-a48c-00144feabdc0)
You'd like myself and Kev to be the equivalent of the BNP because at least then your ridiculous Marxist positions make sense.
I'm not a subscriber to the FT so can't read the link. I'm not challenging the statistic. I'm challenging what you're trying to make it mean. (Edit: Just to unpack that, I could be wrong, and that would be great, but I find it difficult to believe that you randomly stumbled upon that article in the FT while perusing its archives from a decade ago.)
It's roughly another 20% on top, by the way, of London's population who are British but not white. And the top three countries that make up the ~35% of London's population that wasn't born British? India (part of the British Empire until 1947), Poland (white, so their kids should be grand, right?), and Ireland.
I spent two pages clearly showing you what it meant and what context I meant it in. Now you pretend to be completely clueless.
Also, at what point do you become French? Judging by the results of the last election a good number of French people don't want your pasty ass over there.
Being from a country within the 'British Empire' makes one British? Are ya serious? That's an unbelievably dumb statement. Ireland was part of the United Kingdom between 1801-1922. Neither India nor the British possessions in the Caribbean were.
You are clutching at straws.
So the Polish babies born between 1940-44 were, in fact, Germans because they happened to fall within the remit of the Third Reich?
You chose to analyse a fairly innocuous term but have failed to summon any logical expression of what your ideology demands.
Let me paraphrase for your thick head Kev:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 01, 2022, 03:05:06 PMDescendents of Irish people who moved to England after the famine surely can't be said to be part of their "indigenous population", right?
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 01, 2022, 03:08:53 PMWell actually...
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 01, 2022, 04:01:03 PMYou're really going to "Well actually" me on that? Fine, I'll see your "Well actually" and raise you a "Extending that silly logic..."
In short, I don't think people born in Ireland under British rule were British and I don't think people born elsewhere outside of Great Britain were either (although they were, technically speaking, British subjects). I'm glad you recognized your own silliness for what it was when thrown back at you though. Progress?
I bet your poor wife has a horror of a time getting you to cut the grass.
Haha, it's the same in every one of the innumerable tiffs you get into here when you are curling toes and provoking Patrick Stewart forehead grasping all over this board.
Arrogant, smug yet ill-thought out and oft ignorant contributions swatted away, and rather than bow out gracefully, you flail around like a drowning out of work actor.
The paraphrasing thing you've done there, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve, but it's doubtful you have.
Saxons, Normans (what about the Britons, Romano-Celts, Angles, Danes, Jutes etc?) blah blah blah. So dumb. You are outmatched in the discipline you are attempting to simulate, so don't bother.
Do you want to see the top result if you search for indigenous population of Britain on an unfiltered search engine?
https://www.britainfirst.org/the_indigenous_british_people
QuoteBritain First - Taking Our Country Back
And that's good night from me folks! Play nice now.
Jaysus wept.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 01, 2022, 05:01:12 PMDo you want to see the top result if you search for indigenous population of Britain on an unfiltered search engine?
https://www.britainfirst.org/the_indigenous_british_people
QuoteBritain First - Taking Our Country Back
And that's good night from me folks! Play nice now.
That proves approximately fuck all
So this is the official point scoring thread now, not the PC one? Sound.
Yes. We are all fucked now Carnage.
Of course it doesn't "prove" anything hellfire, but I did laugh when I saw what duckduckgo's algorithm estimated would be most relevant to someone who had searched for the terms indigenous population of Britain.
Quote from: CaomhaoinWhite British people, as in, the indigenous population.
But this kind of equation of "white British" with "indigenous population" has been a loud cry of British white nationalist politics for years and years now. Ever since they've started trying to appropriate arguments used by the populations of former colonies and use them to "indigenous" wash their own (the BNP, etc.) racism. They too also explicitly "exonerate" white Irish people from this xenophobia, although their political ancestors most certainly did not. And sure that's the only ultimate solution; eventually everyone who was scared of a certain future dies, that future becomes the norm, and others like them start fearing some other future we can't even imagine. I mean, just what would those blood libel headcases who went around murdering Jews think if they could see the state England is in now!
Dude, sorry to break it to you, but pointing, aghast, to the declining "white British" population of London during a discussion of immigration to Ireland couldn't be a more perfect example of a red herring/Chewbacca defense. Had you sucked up that simple truth, you'd have saved yourself a lot of reading.
Quote from: hellfire on September 01, 2022, 02:37:03 PMQuote from: The Demiurge on September 01, 2022, 02:02:46 PMQuote from: hellfire on August 30, 2022, 07:37:57 PMWhite British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?
And what about black British people?
IMO unfettered immigration is a bad thing. Nothing wrong with having that opinion. The dog whistles aren't subtle at all though. Fuck off.
What about them? And the millions of Eastern European whites. I was talking about demographics changes you ignorant little tard.
Here (https://www.ft.com/content/4bd95562-4379-11e2-a48c-00144feabdc0)
Little tard? Jesus fuckin wept. Lay off the American telly you absolute spa.
We all know what you were talking about. The state of this thread. Have at it.
Cowabunga dude.
:laugh: You sure showed me. As Emphyrio pointed out earlier there are five page battles on this forum at least once a week. Those battles all have one common denominator. What do you suppose that denominator is? You refuse to accept and deliberately misunderstand peoples points to showcase some perceived sense of moral and intellectual superiority. You're an expert on everything from chicks with dicks to American elections. All the while scuttering on, picking at peoples arguments like a solicitor who has dangerously over imbibed at lunch. Sleep well little communist, you've prevented a fourth reich and all the horrors therof.
Quote from: The Demiurge on September 01, 2022, 09:09:58 PMQuote from: hellfire on September 01, 2022, 02:37:03 PMQuote from: The Demiurge on September 01, 2022, 02:02:46 PMQuote from: hellfire on August 30, 2022, 07:37:57 PMWhite British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?
And what about black British people?
IMO unfettered immigration is a bad thing. Nothing wrong with having that opinion. The dog whistles aren't subtle at all though. Fuck off.
What about them? And the millions of Eastern European whites. I was talking about demographics changes you ignorant little tard.
Here (https://www.ft.com/content/4bd95562-4379-11e2-a48c-00144feabdc0)
Little tard? Jesus fuckin wept. Lay off the American telly you absolute spa.
We all know what you were talking about. The state of this thread. Have at it.
Cowabunga dude.
Read the thread around it. I was talking about exactly what I typed about, nothing more. Actually, indulge me, what was I really saying. I'm sure you know better than I do.
Have to admit lads I do enjoy the odd 5 page battle. I've been a participant in a few but it's no craic when it turns sour lads
I love coming into this thread and feeling like Dougal in Ted's thought bubbles on the beach
Quote from: hellfire on September 01, 2022, 09:11:57 PMThose battles all have one common denominator. What do you suppose that denominator is?
Kev? :laugh: :P
Look, if you're concerned about Dublin having too much immigration already, then looking at the demographics of London of all places and worrying that the same thing, whatever that actually is, is going to happen in Ireland too, well that's almost like a form of socio-political hypochondria. You're not here trying to persuade us to your side of things, I recognize and actually respect that. As it happens though, people who are in the business of winning over others, politicians, etc., they do spread that kind of "Look at Paris! Look at London! We will be next!!" fear sentiment, accompanied by whatever latest horrific filmed crime is doing the rounds, because they gain from it. Without that fear, they lose a large part of their votes. For all the faults of mine you point out, I think I almost never do the "leftist" equivalent of that; I don't worry the US is headed for civil war, or that France is becoming a fascist nation, etc. (Maybe I do it a little about the climate though.) I never had a bad word to say about ordinary people who voted Leave in the Brexit referendum. I understand and sympathize with people who voted Le Pen rather than Macron. Those who don't simply don't know about, because they ultimately don't give a shit about, working class and rural British/French people. I'm not a socialist out of ideology. I'm a socialist because I grew up poor in a rich town, so I've known all about disparity for as long as I can remember. I side with the underdog, always have, always will. Wherever they're from. And I do my best to stay focused on what is happening rather than on what someone is trying to make me fear might happen, whatever their political persuasion.
I think we can all agree on some level that endless growth is the stem of the issue. Like it or not, migration allows the endless growth cycle to continue as it compounds everything. Natural birth rates reflect reality. At what point is artificially increasing the population enough? How many millions. At some point it does stop. So why not now why not when natural growth is saying stop. Forget environmental goals, forget trying to decrease farm outputs.
Well the stupidity of reducing herd size here while Brazil expands is pretty special for sure.
Quote from: The Butcher on September 02, 2022, 08:50:18 AMI think we can all agree on some level that endless growth is the stem of the issue. Like it or not, migration allows the endless growth cycle to continue as it compounds everything. Natural birth rates reflect reality. At what point is artificially increasing the population enough? How many millions. At some point it does stop. So why not now why not when natural growth is saying stop. Forget environmental goals, forget trying to decrease farm outputs.
Well put. There are other things that could be tackled with regard to the birth rate. A lot of women just want to work and have a career and good for them. A lot are just not in a position to. When you have couples working two jobs to scrape by then options are limited. If birth rate is such a problem incentive having kids. I'd agree that the only real winners there are large companies who enjoy keeping the unit cost of labour down. It's effectively a ponzi scheme.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 02, 2022, 08:55:34 AMWell the stupidity of reducing herd size here while Brazil expands is pretty special for sure.
I do hear the argument of why Europe is allowed to push ahead with it's concrete jungle while we point/wag the finger at Brazil etc but at the end of the day, that's a race to the bottom type argument, or a race to eradicating the "lungs" of the Earth. Europe should have marshall plan in terms of planting trees/plants etc and maybe it could start to gain some credibility. But yes 100% it seems bonkers to replace to go from our high quality beef farming to import "beef" with little to no traceability from over 5000 miles away.
I don't know what the future beef import plans are, but as far as "replacing" our own produce goes, we've imported a significant fraction of the beef we consume for decades, even when domestic stocks were large enough to supply our own demand a hundred times over. That's part of the resource irresponsibility of a capital based economy: as long as capital is expanding, don't worry about the material resource cost. I was reading the other day that we export 90% of our dairy produce, so if some form of maximum self-sufficiency is a direction to go in, that alone would sort out ~90% of the numbers of dairy cows.
Or could we be leading exporters and mitigate that in some other way? What will likely happen is we'll still sell what we have and end up eating shite in its stead. Cricket burgers and that bollix.
QuoteThe report also provides a retrospective examination of the extraordinary level of fiscal support Government provided during the pandemic. At €48 billion, or over one-fifth of GNI*, the scale of this intervention was unprecedented. The robust economic recovery and the absence of any significant 'scarring' suggests that this approach was the appropriate course of action.
Yeah we're fucked. Where's the money for the cost of living crisis that hasn't even kicked in yet? Oh that's right, transferred into the accounts of various billionaires through massive corporations. 13 trillion and counting but don't worry, there's no scarring. You'll just be hungry and cold for the winter with electricity brown and blackouts. Hooray! Thank god Putin popped up to take the blame for what's coming. I fuckin called this in 2020 and I know fuck all. These tossers are paid with your money to make this much of a fuck of spending your money and your kids future money and still get to not be in prison. Wow, what a wonderful world. Here's hoping they'll bring the state pension up by a fiver a week to alleviate the pain they've caused saving the elderly only to freeze and starve them 2 years later. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Reading that statement is like someone trying to tell me that the dog I'm looking at is a horse.
It wouldn't even be so galling if there was anything to show for the money, and don't start with the "it could have been so much worse if we didn't etc" because that is not provable. At least we have lots of perspex in place to do absolutely nothing in the future if anything happens and those floor signs telling us where to stand and which door to go in or out were surely worth every penny. Also we got to pay for several shots of a questionable vaccine which may or may not do anything and we're going to do it again this winter and be told it was free. And the advertising, don't forget you wouldn't have known you were in danger without the advertising! Talk about pissing down our backs and telling us it's raining.
Imagine what could've been done with 48 billion euros if there was a genuine desire to improve anything.
Unreal. Jesus wept in his imaginary kingdom.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5e588-minister-donohoe-publishes-annual-taxation-report/
On immigration. Been good for us so far anyway. I grew up in the 80s. Craic was good in a way but Ireland was an awful shit hole and the food options were beyond shyte. Way better food options now and have loads of mates from other countries. Now at the same time people should be able to talk about immigration policy without the hysteria.
As regards money. System is rigged. Always has been. Either you properly tax corporations at a rate of about 40 percent everywhere in the world thereby guaranteeing good standards of living for everyone or you have a revolution. The EU or America print money all the time for bullshit like quantitative easing or whatever. Why not print money to make housing a human right, thereby giving housing to all removing the 30 year noose around everyone's neck (and this could be done quite easily btw). And leaving people to buy all the corporations products with more buying power anyway. The system (and unrifled capatalism) is rigged in the long run to keep the masses down.
Yes agreed on all that.
Do you think food options being better is down to immigration? I like you was brought up on chips and sausages, stew etc, but I never tasted anything polish until my ex mother in law cooked every Sunday for me from about 2010-2012.
I'd love to have the 30 year load of shote to go away, but you're wishing for big government, essentially socialism. Ask anyone who has lived in a socialist country (that same polish auld one told me) and they'll tell you the realities of it, albeit they did have gaffs without the 'if you don't pay the mortgage you'll see who owns the house'.
Careful what ye wish for boyz.
There has to be a happy medium surely. I wouldn't be up for communism but were my taxes spent on the betterment of my own country I'd be interested in that. I don't mind immigrants either but it's obviously silly to have them here not working and too many at once is thick as well
Maybe it's a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. Let capitalism go on but tax corporations properly to fund the social issues.
Yeah, fair solutions like that rather than strict ideology
A mix of socialism and capitalism is essentially what we have here already. The problem is that it's very poorly implemented. In Ireland it seems to be that some have to pay and some are entitled to be paid for. There is no way that a healthy person my age could have been out of work for more than five years of the last twenty.
The tax the rich mentality doesn't work for me. It's assumed that people get rich by some sort of theft or deception. In times gone by a poor person had no chance of a decent education. This meant that moving up in income was significantly less likely. The same could not be said here now. Welfare should be unattractive and a short term safety net. At no point should it be a lifestyle choice. Proper business regulations would be as far as I'd go on the whole corporations thing.
I don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/08/business/ireland-global-tax-deal-oecd/index.html
On new international laws for taxing multinationals agreed last year, once notably Ireland had finally gotten on board.
Originally, the loophole was there because otherwise those corporations wouldn't be in Ireland in the first place, and you can see in that article to what extent they have come to dominate employment:
QuoteThe new rate would apply to 1,556 multinationals based in Ireland, employing about 400,000 people.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 03, 2022, 06:05:48 PMI don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.
As I said at the end proper business regulations would sort most things. Another term for what you're saying is welfare capitalism. Socialism comes with a lot of communist baggage these day or the idea that everyone is entitled to the same regardless of skill or effort.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 03, 2022, 06:05:48 PMI don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.
As I said at the end, proper business regulations would sort most things. Another term for what you're saying is welfare capitalism. Socialism comes with a lot of communist baggage these day or the idea that everyone is entitled to the same regardless of skill or effort.
If anyone is interested in life in the Soviet Union in the 70's, I recommend Kapucinski's 'Imperium'. Fantastic book.
On YouTube you have that 'Ushanka Show' which is also cool, Ukrainian lad who grew up in the USSR.
But what you say is correct, and I've heard from a good pal who grew up in Yugoslavia and my ex's mother who was born and raised in socialist Poland. Why bother innovating or working hard when the government has a monopoly on everything? Wait ten years for an even shittier version of a bad fiat and no access to basic consumer items because of political ideology?
Of course that didn't all apply to Yugoslavia and their 'third way'. They became quite prosperous before it consumed itself, or was it marked for destruction by the Americans?
Quote from: hellfire on September 03, 2022, 06:46:23 PMQuote from: astfgyl on September 03, 2022, 06:05:48 PMI don't see how there's a loophole where large corporations escape the tax burden but the regular Joe or Jane must pay their due. Just treat everyone the same and take out the loopholes would be a start. Half socialist without making it so doing fuck all is a career would be useful too.
As I said at the end, proper business regulations would sort most things. Another term for what you're saying is welfare capitalism. Socialism comes with a lot of communist baggage these day or the idea that everyone is entitled to the same regardless of skill or effort.
Ok welfare capitalism sounds good as long as it's for the welfare of the worker and those who genuinely can't work. A bit of wealth transfer in the other direction might be nice for a change rather than handouts just make the place work in a fair way where our taxes are put to our use.
It is after all our money that the government are spending. What they're at now it's like if the wife sent me for the weekly shop but I just bought myself a load of drink and hash with the money and told her I was doing it for her
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 03, 2022, 06:53:20 PMIf anyone is interested in life in the Soviet Union in the 70's, I recommend Kapucinski's 'Imperium'. Fantastic book.
And this is regarding what? Don't know how I always get flagged the tangential one when you're constantly bringing up your eastern european anecdotes at the drop of a hat :laugh:
Immigration = great replacement theory
Socialism = USSR
Every angle contrary to that = a tangent :abbath:
Well the replacement theory has a grain of truth in there like all the best theories. Isn't it in Ireland's interests to bring in lots of young cheap labour, to both pay the pensions and devalue the local labour? Yknow to keep the boot stamping on the face so to speak
Not getting into immigration again, but socialism, democratic socialism, is not sovietism. Doesn't mean you have to like democratic socialism, but argue against that, not straw men.
I am certainly the tangential one.
But you argue you like a particularly cunning politician :)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 03, 2022, 09:00:20 PMNot getting into immigration again, but socialism, democratic socialism, is not sovietism. Doesn't mean you have to like democratic socialism, but argue against that, not straw men.
No I don't really want to get into it either only to say it's not a black and white argument if you'll excuse the pun.
I'm all for fairness, whatever that means
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff
Some people seem to think they are. I agree.
Dig the cunts out
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 03, 2022, 06:28:18 PMhttps://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/08/business/ireland-global-tax-deal-oecd/index.html
On new international laws for taxing multinationals agreed last year, once notably Ireland had finally gotten on board.
Originally, the loophole was there because otherwise those corporations wouldn't be in Ireland in the first place, and you can see in that article to what extent they have come to dominate employment:
QuoteThe new rate would apply to 1,556 multinationals based in Ireland, employing about 400,000 people.
Sp the rate goes from 12.5 to 15 percent. Its the right policy but the tax rate should be the same for a corporation as it is for a normal person. And have bands. 15 percent up between 1 and 10 million in profits.Then higher after that, 30% or so. Now I do realise we've benefitted the most from out 12.5% rate. But the policy has to be worldwide to work. Then both corporations and government have plenty of money. Then everyone would see a far better standard of living.
I agree but we need to go harder on both the corporations and the governments. They are getting away with murder.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 05, 2022, 10:13:08 PMI agree but we need to go harder on both the corporations and the governments. They are getting away with murder.
100%.
I read yesterday that Ireland's low corporate tax rate was set up at a time when corporations wouldn't have located here otherwise. I'm pretty sure a lot of them will pull out once it goes up, probably not all.
Quote from: hellfire on September 06, 2022, 06:46:38 AMI read yesterday that Ireland's low corporate tax rate was set up at a time when corporations wouldn't have located here otherwise. I'm pretty sure a lot of them will pull out once it goes up, probably not all.
If the rate went higher than 15% then it's more likely but at 15% I don't see many moving. Too much money invested and we do have a fairly high skill level in the workforce.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 03, 2022, 06:28:18 PMOriginally, the loophole was there because otherwise those corporations wouldn't be in Ireland in the first place, and you can see in that article to what extent they have come to dominate employment:
QuoteThe new rate would apply to 1,556 multinationals based in Ireland, employing about 400,000 people.
As someone else suggested, serious change would require international law to impose minimum corporation tax, otherwise they will up and fuck off as soon as it is potentially beneficial to the shareholders, have no illusions about that. Direct knock on effect of those corporations moving here following the drop to 12.5% corporation tax in 1999 is that Ireland became an increasingly attractive place for people to migrate to. So if the multinationals did up and leave due to raising corporation tax by "too much", then just like 30,000 Poles per year after the property bubble burst, it'd be bye-bye to a huge portion of the country's immigrant population too.
This is grim as fuck. Not sure which is worse, Supermac's advertising jobs in Dublin with "accommodation included" (you just fucking dread to imagine), or 4 (!!!) months of energy bill payment being offered as a prize on TV:
https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1566748685341425664
Gas these lizards, all of them, truss them up and gas them.
That is fucking grim as fuck
Mike Martin's comments about energy bills would make you want to shoot the fucker. Scumbag. 'Shock and awe'. Fuck off.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40956101.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40956101.html)
Just going back to the corporate tax rate for a second.
The Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (IFAC), chaired by UCC economist Seamus Coffey, warned losing just one of the bigger multinationals would leave the State with a €276m hole in its corporation tax revenue.
According to Revenue, foreign-owned multinationals paid 80pc of all corporation tax last year, totalling €8.2bn.
In a report issued in April, Revenue said the top 10 payers of corporation tax accounted for almost 40pc of that total.
This was back in 2018. Huge reliance on corporation tax revenue by FG post 2011, similar to FFs reliance on stamp duty back in 2007/bubble era. We replaced the Celtic tiger house of cards with corporate vulture puppet strings.
I know Sinn Fein has been pushing this business of taxing the hell out of corporations for years now. They won't stay. It's much the same as the whole tax the rich nonsense. Sure, punish the people who pay the most tax and have a greater ability to relocate than most. Watch the banks dry up 2008 style.
They pay the most tax also in part because the rest of the economy, notably the genuinely domestic economy, is underdeveloped.
Quote from: hellfire on September 07, 2022, 10:15:04 AMI know Sinn Fein has been pushing this business of taxing the hell out of corporations for years now. They won't stay. It's much the same as the whole tax the rich nonsense. Sure, punish the people who pay the most tax and have a greater ability to relocate than most. Watch the banks dry up 2008 style.
Sinn Fein will promise the stars but once in government will row back on a lot of promises. They wont kill the golden goose. As regards the banks lending may reduce alright but they are not fucked like they were in 2008.
Mass layoffs and the resultant unpaid loans would put a dent in both the banks and the state finances. I couldn't predict exactly how bad it would be, but pretty bad anyway.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 06, 2022, 10:09:43 AMThis is grim as fuck. Not sure which is worse, Supermac's advertising jobs in Dublin with "accommodation included" (you just fucking dread to imagine), or 4 (!!!) months of energy bill payment being offered as a prize on TV:
https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1566748685341425664
Gas these lizards, all of them, truss them up and gas them.
Just give it til Winter, and the jobs advertised will not even be offering money anymore. They'll be saying:"amazing opportunity, come work for us and you'll get the heating at your workplace during entire duration of your shift. Right candidate could be allowed to work 12 hours per day, everyday".
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1567462388898594816?t=E6kKuyFYeoHU0McZYZwq7g&s=19
There's that "flatten the curve" once more. Just one winter to flatten the curve I suppose. You might notice she's not taking about generating more, just stopping you from using it.
Also if everyone switches to a different time, won't that become peak time?
Will you be fooled again?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 06, 2022, 10:09:43 AMThis is grim as fuck. Not sure which is worse, Supermac's advertising jobs in Dublin with "accommodation included" (you just fucking dread to imagine), or 4 (!!!) months of energy bill payment being offered as a prize on TV:
https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1566748685341425664
Gas these lizards, all of them, truss them up and gas them.
They've (Supermac's) been doing that for decades, a mate took that job in '92. Said it was grim alright, the only time off anyone spent there was to sleep. This was back in the day when you could afford to go someplace else in Dublin.
Quote from: Carnage on September 07, 2022, 05:10:55 PMThey've (Supermac's) been doing that for decades, a mate took that job in '92. Said it was grim alright, the only time off anyone spent there was to sleep. This was back in the day when you could afford to go someplace else in Dublin.
Ah fair enough, good to know.
Bord Na Mona did it better ;)
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/304084190_5232363573479413_8658999223601618476_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mf7oyk8fEiIAX_QAgvG&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=00_AT-wti4iq22yzYFxO55vcuju9332lPDgMlEZzOd9-IoRWA&oe=631E4C17)
Plenty of lads would jump at that. Cutting turf for a living and getting out of the poxy office and the poxy fucking traffic? Ya boi.
Absolutely just daydreaming a situation here but - maybe a good solid 07:00-16:00 four days a week, doing whatever labour BnM fire at you, but you're absolutely stone solid protected in your job so they won't abuse you, there's enough lads in the bog/on site daily so you're not overworked, but it's constant enough. But they give you, say, a house that's not rented but your wage is auto deducted to pay a mortgage off it (so you'll own it yourself but they do until it's paid FULL) plus a bit of interest so the company themselves profit on the deal, also all your bills are covered in full no questions asked, you have company tick to the value of €120/week for a decent supermarket nearby, and they stick another €80 cash in an envelope for you at the end of the week. Would ye do it?
Yes. In a heartbeat.
Without a moments hesitation.
Let the urban techno hippies stay 'in town' and argue about bullshit on the internet.
As an archaeologist (it's my lived experience, guys!) I have spent a decent amount of time on Bord na Móna bogs and it can be such a peaceful environment to work in. I suppose if you're clearing ditches and using heavy machinery or might be a different story but it's nice to be out in that landscape. It's good for the brain.
Sounds like heaven when you spend an hour in horrific traffic with cunts acting the cunt non-stop, wrecked from work, back into the shit wagon you haven't paid off yet to the gaff you'll pay off when you're seventy to argue on the internet with a 'peace land and mickey amputations' enthusiast who enrages you further.
Sign me up.
Yeah I'd do it too. I imagined the deal too sweet though I'm sure in real life if such a thing were to ever happen it would be ran into the ground somehow.
No stop. Let's keep dreaming of the simple life.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on September 08, 2022, 08:57:40 PMSounds like heaven when you spend an hour in horrific traffic with cunts acting the cunt non-stop, wrecked from work, back into the shit wagon you haven't paid off yet to the gaff you'll pay off when you're seventy to argue on the internet with a 'peace land and mickey amputations' enthusiast who enrages you further.
Sign me up.
Haha. Spent plenty of my summers footing and clamping turf. No place more peaceful, ceannabhains and snipes and blue skies to the horizon.
Like a fool, traded it all for a 'mess of pottage' sunny climes and exotic pussy.
Quote from: ochoill on September 08, 2022, 01:12:59 PMAbsolutely just daydreaming a situation here but - maybe a good solid 07:00-16:00 four days a week, doing whatever labour BnM fire at you, but you're absolutely stone solid protected in your job so they won't abuse you, there's enough lads in the bog/on site daily so you're not overworked, but it's constant enough. But they give you, say, a house that's not rented but your wage is auto deducted to pay a mortgage off it (so you'll own it yourself but they do until it's paid FULL) plus a bit of interest so the company themselves profit on the deal, also all your bills are covered in full no questions asked, you have company tick to the value of €120/week for a decent supermarket nearby, and they stick another €80 cash in an envelope for you at the end of the week. Would ye do it?
Change that €120 to real money though, no company funny money
Quote from: 91/30 on September 09, 2022, 04:40:45 AMQuote from: Caomhaoin on September 08, 2022, 08:57:40 PMSounds like heaven when you spend an hour in horrific traffic with cunts acting the cunt non-stop, wrecked from work, back into the shit wagon you haven't paid off yet to the gaff you'll pay off when you're seventy to argue on the internet with a 'peace land and mickey amputations' enthusiast who enrages you further.
Sign me up.
Haha. Spent plenty of my summers footing and clamping turf. No place more peaceful, ceannabhains and snipes and blue skies to the horizon.
Like a fool, traded it all for a 'mess of pottage' sunny climes and exotic pussy.
Jaysus I'd say you're regretting that now. What sort of cat is it you have, could you bring it home with you maybe?
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on September 09, 2022, 09:26:22 AMChange that €120 to real money though, no company funny money
No we have to keep it some way mildly frustrating and it has to benefit a load of companies greatly to be even partially realistic. But we can make the supermarket tick for one of those Tescos with the petrol pumps if you like. Also if you get fired or move job you lose your house regardless of what you paid off the company mortgage. But the deal is 20 years otherwise and you own it and can do as you like. You also don't have a choice in electricity, gas, internet or TV provider they are all through the job.
Lol, you're right
Oops.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/john-pilger-silencing-lambs-how-propaganda-works/281884/
Here's a piece by John Pilger who I think is the far right these days but one can never really tell, as he touches on in the piece itself. I found it an interesting read but it's not a thousand miles from what I thought of things anyway so maybe that's my confirmation bias kicking in before I go home to watch some American film or TV series.
I wonder if American Gladiators is still going?
https://m.independent.ie/news/environment/climate-change-denial-deserves-the-death-penalty-irish-activist-takes-his-message-to-egypt-42123194.html
Ok. Anyone want to discuss how the existence of this article shows that we are far more fucked than even the most pessimistic here would like to believe?
Spanner :laugh:
This is what I want the news to do in the future. Find the biggest lunatic with a placard at absolutely everything and frame the articles around them
That basically is what the news is in the US :laugh:
On second thoughts then let's not go to Camelot. Tis a silly place.
Mandela effect in full swing probably but sure that's how Nelson Mandela predicted it would go after he deciphered the best few quatrains out of the Nostradamus collection
Can't believe none of ye heard the dog whistle!
Did I not blow it loud enough?
It's the blondes that we're up against this week so don't forget to burn one of your friends to be in with an unrealistic chance of winning a prize that you aren't quite sure exists because not only have you not won it, you also don't even know one single person in the whole world who ever really won at anything other than easing the passage into the eternal unknown and there's every chance it wasn't easier at all. We could all be going down and the most thought provoking part of that is the thought that none of us have the slightest idea no matter what we believe. It's not great craic tbf
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/12/04/oxfordshire-council-to-trial-a-climate-lockdown-starting-2024/
Yet another one of those crazy conspiracy theories slowly starting to become a reality.
That's insane. I'm guessing there's more to it than is being let on in the article, but even so it seems ludicrous. More self-flagellation around complex issues that demand real solutions. There are many sensible climate experts who are thinking about the problem in a practical way, not just piling guilt upon middle class westerners who are already the most fucking green minded people on the planet :laugh: Ah sure, those experts are all crackpots and Nazis, I'm sure.
Do you recognize any of your own red flags micko? A text that blames a council decision on "communism" because it's Labour run, which later says Britain has been "edging closer to naked communism for at least half a century" despite Brexit, UKIP, and the Tories having been in power and running the place into the ground for more than a decade now. Plus, the first ad I got hit with? A conference organized by the Heartland Institute, the same charming people who worked with Philip Morris to downplay the dangers of smoking and have since moved on to climate change, with a helping hand from the likes of ExxonMobil. No crazy conspiracy theory there; just the same old corporate self-interest bullshit!
Not surprising then that the same mooks who advertise for the Heartland Institute have interpreted an initiative (which may or may not work) to keep cars out of the city centre as a "lockdown", even though it clearly isn't that by any definition of that term. You'll still be able to walk or cycle or bus or train anywhere you like, and you can drive to any other place too whenever you want, just not into the city centre. But you'll nevertheless still be able to drive there up to a 100 times a year. Naked communism indeed: those gulag exiled didn't know how lucky they had it! :-\
Didn't attempts in London to curb car use through charging people to drive into the city and closing loads of lanes to traffic result in more pollution a few years ago? Punitive measures don't work. Trying to force people to walk, cycle or use public transport doesn't work. People want to drive, it's as simple as that, so they need to think about other strategies. It seems that most of the pollution, as in the vast majority of it, is coming from developing countries and not the developed ones so they are using useless strategies in the wrong places. That said, I'm all for reducing pollution where possible but I think that innovative approaches to planting trees in built up areas or along roads and highways would be more effective. More electric cars too with more charge points and tax breaks for people who want to buy them. Building or upgrading nuclear power stations while investing into more R&D for renewable energy to get it up to scratch. Make it something attractive to people's lifestyles, something they want rather than spanking them for doing what they have always done. Give them new, more desirable options. People want to go green in general, but they also want to live.
As I said, the plan may not work. But aside from that, calling it "communism" or a "lockdown" is pure propaganda, and absolutely on a par with the joke you ironically made yourself about the "communists" calling everyone who disagrees with them "nazis." No shortage of childlike minds in the world, regardless of political stance.
Sure look it. Half-mast wank in honour of Kirsty. Have to keep an eye on the bigger picture.
Jizz long and prosper.
There is too much being made of that Oxford thing, but it's highly inconvenient for lads who need to drive to work every morning. I can speak from experience as I've been fined a few times for inadvertently straying into FORBIDDEN ZONE in a diesel car. Said zone is not signposted, you have to just know. It's an infringement on freedom, yes, but it's hardly Havana 1959.
Andy hit the nail on the head though, you'll never get lads out of cars in numbers anywhere near significant, never.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on December 06, 2022, 01:25:24 PMThere is too much being made of that Oxford thing, but it's highly inconvenient for lads who need to drive to work every morning. I can speak from experience as I've been fined a few times for inadvertently straying into FORBIDDEN ZONE in a diesel car. Said zone is not signposted, you have to just know. It's an infringement on freedom, yes, but it's hardly Havana 1959.
Andy hit the nail on the head though, you'll never get lads out of cars in numbers anywhere near significant, never.
Yeah, in Dublin at least until there's something resembling a proper public transport it's never going to work. I went into town with the family yesterday, €9.90 for three hours parking or €10.60 for the bus in and out
Quote from: Eoin McLove on December 06, 2022, 12:05:13 PMDidn't attempts in London to curb car use through charging people to drive into the city and closing loads of lanes to traffic result in more pollution a few years ago? Punitive measures don't work. Trying to force people to walk, cycle or use public transport doesn't work. People want to drive, it's as simple as that, so they need to think about other strategies. It seems that most of the pollution, as in the vast majority of it, is coming from developing countries and not the developed ones so they are using useless strategies in the wrong places. That said, I'm all for reducing pollution where possible but I think that innovative approaches to planting trees in built up areas or along roads and highways would be more effective. More electric cars too with more charge points and tax breaks for people who want to buy them. Building or upgrading nuclear power stations while investing into more R&D for renewable energy to get it up to scratch. Make it something attractive to people's lifestyles, something they want rather than spanking them for doing what they have always done. Give them new, more desirable options. People want to go green in general, but they also want to live.
Yes. Too sensible to happen yet though, I reckon it'll be a few more years before the revolution
The train derailing and subsequent burning of chemicals in Ohio looks pretty bad.
I say looks because I've only seen a few dramatic pictures of it.
Oh yeah how did I forget to mention the UFO balloons!? Well we're all fucked now the invasion is on
Yeah read that the ufo balloons. Like wtf. :laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on December 06, 2022, 12:05:13 PMDidn't attempts in London to curb car use through charging people to drive into the city and closing loads of lanes to traffic result in more pollution a few years ago? Punitive measures don't work. Trying to force people to walk, cycle or use public transport doesn't work. People want to drive, it's as simple as that, so they need to think about other strategies. It seems that most of the pollution, as in the vast majority of it, is coming from developing countries and not the developed ones so they are using useless strategies in the wrong places. That said, I'm all for reducing pollution where possible but I think that innovative approaches to planting trees in built up areas or along roads and highways would be more effective. More electric cars too with more charge points and tax breaks for people who want to buy them. Building or upgrading nuclear power stations while investing into more R&D for renewable energy to get it up to scratch. Make it something attractive to people's lifestyles, something they want rather than spanking them for doing what they have always done. Give them new, more desirable options. People want to go green in general, but they also want to live.
All good points. All the knowledge to live in a green society is there. The problem is lack of real buy in from governments. They'll piecemeal the shit out of it without investing what's really needed to sort the issue.
Take your point about cars. Of course people want to drive. In cities ok service but jammed and no proper security. Outside cities abysmal service. So invest a good few billion on drivers, buses and routes. Connectivity for all the country and sufficient number of buses in cities to avoid overcrowding. Then its 10 to 15 euro a month for unlimited travel.
I like my car but if the bus was good and that cheap I'll take the bus. It'll never fucking happen though. Because governments are years behind on green issues.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 13, 2023, 05:23:53 PMOh yeah how did I forget to mention the UFO balloons!? Well we're all fucked now the invasion is on
Strange the UFO balloons only seem interested in Americans...
I guess it's a good way of having an enemy shoot million dollar missiles at 150 dollar objects 🤣
Quote from: astfgyl on February 13, 2023, 05:23:53 PMOh yeah how did I forget to mention the UFO balloons!? Well we're all fucked now the invasion is on
We need something to distract us from the Epstein list that is about to be released. The UFO stuff is just this years Johnny Depp trial.
More like to distract from that chemical spill in Ohio that hasn't been mentioned anywhere
they don't need distractions. the majority of people (i.e. literally the majority of the electorate) just don't really care about who was pals with Epstein or about chemical spills in places they don't live. do they create distractions anyway? maybe. but they don't need to, not to distract from things people feel as wholly disconnected from their own lives.
Is the Epstein list actually going to be released? That chemical spill seems like it should be bigger news than it is but I've only seen anything of it on Twitter so pinch of salt as usual. Think another one derailed today actually.
The UFO balloons thing seems to have died down already too
Chemical spill was reported about as widely as one would expect in mainstream US outlets.
Today, another Guardian investigation dropped, another Cambridge Analytica-esque story involving interference in up to 33 elections worldwide. See how quickly most people stopped caring about Cambridge Analytica, the Panama papers, etc., etc.? It'd seriously take a lot more than some chemicals and a list of rich replaceables for the government to sit up and decide it needs to orchestrate something more elaborate than the non-stop distraction the majority of us consume through our phones and TVs every day.
Yeah I don't think the balloons and the chemical spill are related and as you say, would that spill be really reported on over here anyway unless it was something spectacularly bad. Cambridge Analytica or their like are surely going as strong as ever anyway, but that's a given in this age I guess and surely for far more than elections.
Have to say I'd like to see Epstein's list all the same, just to see a few lads squirming over it
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 11:56:38 AMYeah I don't think the balloons and the chemical spill are related and as you say, would that spill be really reported on over here anyway unless it was something spectacularly bad. Cambridge Analytica or their like are surely going as strong as ever anyway, but that's a given in this age I guess and surely for far more than elections.
Have to say I'd like to see Epstein's list all the same, just to see a few lads squirming over it
Considering the amount of coverage someone like Andrew Tate got a person whom most people had never even heard of 2 months ago you would hope that a list of very famous people a lot of whom have big influence over our everyday lives who flew regularly to a place the locals on neighbouring islands affectionately referred to as "Paedophile Island" gets the same treatment or even more coverage but it will probably get about as much airtime as the Maxwell case got. If this story is reported on properly a lot of people would be very interested in it.
Still want to know how Maxwell was convicted of trafficking people to no-one but then maybe that's not as unusual as I think it is.
I also think it's unlikely any of the big names will feel the pinch of any published list and will just say they didn't really know him anyway. Epstein seems so well connected that anyone could be on that list but also any of them will have plausible deniability when faced with it.
Edit: in any case, I still think it'd be terrible to have ones name associated with a paedophile Island, even if only went once and didn't know. Seems like the sort of thing that'd follow someone around so I'd be thinking even the innocent wouldn't like that list to get out. Then again it could be like Prince Andrew, where everyone knows but nothing ever comes of it so maybe I'm exaggerating any potential worry that lads might be having
Who's winning the war in Ukraine? How does anyone see that panning out?
Asking here because a year later and the hardest possible propaganda from both sides, I have no idea which side is winning and I'm wondering how or where it'll end
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 11:56:38 AMYeah I don't think the balloons and the chemical spill are related and as you say, would that spill be really reported on over here anyway unless it was something spectacularly bad. Cambridge Analytica or their like are surely going as strong as ever anyway, but that's a given in this age I guess and surely for far more than elections.
Have to say I'd like to see Epstein's list all the same, just to see a few lads squirming over it
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2023/02/09/did-train-wrecks-spill-hazardous-chemicals-near-your-home-look-data/11197948002/
Bit of context there to how often things like that happen and how many we never heard of
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 01:17:56 PMWho's winning the war in Ukraine? How does anyone see that panning out?
Asking here because a year later and the hardest possible propaganda from both sides, I have no idea which side is winning and I'm wondering how or where it'll end
Stalemate atm really. Both getting organised for a push in about a months time when the ground starts thawing out. If Ukraine gets all the tanks its promised they might get gains. Seems to me the west is supplying just enough weapons for it to be a 50/50 battle. Which is what they want. Continuous depletion of Russian armory and soldiers.
Quote from: Ollkiller on February 15, 2023, 01:37:29 PMQuote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 01:17:56 PMWho's winning the war in Ukraine? How does anyone see that panning out?
Asking here because a year later and the hardest possible propaganda from both sides, I have no idea which side is winning and I'm wondering how or where it'll end
Stalemate atm really. Both getting organised for a push in about a months time when the ground starts thawing out. If Ukraine gets all the tanks its promised they might get gains. Seems to me the west is supplying just enough weapons for it to be a 50/50 battle. Which is what they want. Continuous depletion of Russian armory and soldiers.
Yeah it does at times look like an exercise in slowly wearing down the Russians rather than full on offensives. On the plus side it's plenty of coin for the weapons manufacturers at the same time. Hard to trust too many of the numbers quoted from either side as to how weakened the Russians are getting, or indeed the Ukrainians. I'd certainly have my doubts as to how long Russia can keep throwing men at it anyway. A year's war must have serious consequences for their manpower
Lol I went looking around at the Epstein story on Twitter and someone has published a list with Callum Hudson Odoi on it :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 01:17:56 PMWho's winning the war in Ukraine? How does anyone see that panning out?
Asking here because a year later and the hardest possible propaganda from both sides, I have no idea which side is winning and I'm wondering how or where it'll end
The easy answer is no one *wins* this war. The next few months will probably show which way it pans out as Ukraine newly trained units come online and the 2nd Russian mobilisation comes into play in the next month. Russia seem intent on carving out a big scoop of their key demographics when they were already in decline in terms of upcoming generations.
Yes the whole thing seems really poorly thought out from the Russians, despite the stories of US and NATO provocations by setting up so near to Russian border. Even if the reasons are something to do with that, it still looks like folly and a waste of men. They say it's peacekeeping in Donbass and whatnot but what did they expect would happen when they invaded?
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 03:54:42 PMYes the whole thing seems really poorly thought out from the Russians, despite the stories of US and NATO provocations by setting up so near to Russian border. Even if the reasons are something to do with that, it still looks like folly and a waste of men. They say it's peacekeeping in Donbass and whatnot but what did they expect would happen when they invaded?
They're weaponary arsenal ain't what it should be due to the corruption creaming money off the top the last 20 years. As regards the war they are using the russian tried and tested method of throwing more men at it. Also peacekeeping me hole. Just another land grab to keep the home focus on the war and not internal issues.
Yeah I don't buy the peacekeeping line at all either. Seems like folly now, the whole thing from their perspective. I'd like to see how it's being spun in Russia
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 05:38:29 PMYeah I don't buy the peacekeeping line at all either. Seems like folly now, the whole thing from their perspective. I'd like to see how it's being spun in Russia
Ethnic Russians being treated like shit. Forcing the Ukrainian language on them. The west is to blame. Usual nonsense. Ukraine bad. Russia good. And you cant say anything against that. Like the journalist who was jailed today for 6 years for sharing a social media post about the Maripol russian missile strike. Link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/russia-ukraine-anti-war-journalist-maria-ponomarenko-sentence-6-year-jail/amp/
The West, NATO specifically, contributed to the conflagration, there's no doubt about that.
Like anything else, the two narratives are biased beyond belief and the truth of the matter is to be found among elements of both.
Thought it was fairly widely known that Ukraine had been at some sort of civil war with the ethnic Russians there but then I didn't really know anything about it other than seeing retrospective reports. Still don't see how that's used to justify invasion now anyway.
We over here then just get the opposite of Russia's claims ie Russia bad Ukraine good but when Russia is the aggressor it's a far easier sell because we all know who invaded who. Never had Putin down as a good guy myself but I have to say the zelensky love parade gives me the no feeling in ways I can't accurately describe all the same. Something feels really off about it.
Wish Russia would pack it in and fuck off but even that looks almost impossible at this stage
Ya Russia badly misjudged how the west would react.
It's all theatre though, they don't really give a fuck. Crimea was taken over with barely a raised eyebrow, and there have been Russian regulars in Ukraine since 2014. So why all the flags and screeching and sucking Zelenskyy (an odious piece of shit leading the most corrupt country in Europe) 's cock now?
German Panzers fighting Russians? Arming the Ukrainians with high end artillery systems? There is an endgame planned here, and it certainly won't be the 'liberation' of eastern Ukraine.
I wonder what would happen if Spain sent the tanks in to sort out those nippy Catalans. Turkey acts the prick constantly with the Kurds, and nobody really cared when the Russian airforce was pummelling Syrian rebels either. Why's that I wonder?
And I have to laugh at the USA - if it were the Middle East they'd have been in there last February.
It's not the middle east though. No one in the middle east poses a direct threat to the US so there's no reason not to go gung-ho in that region. Except against, say, Iran, but that's because the greatest threat there comes from their allies, i.e. China and especially Russia.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on February 15, 2023, 06:02:42 PMYa Russia badly misjudged how the west would react.
It's all theatre though, they don't really give a fuck. Crimea was taken over with barely a raised eyebrow, and there have been Russian regulars in Ukraine since 2014. So why all the flags and screeching and sucking Zelenskyy (an odious piece of shit leading the most corrupt country in Europe) 's cock now?
German Panzers fighting Russians? Arming the Ukrainians with high end artillery systems? There is an endgame planned here, and it certainly won't be the 'liberation' of eastern Ukraine.
I wonder what would happen if Spain sent the tanks in to sort out those nippy Catalans. Turkey acts the prick constantly with the Kurds, and nobody really cared when the Russian airforce was pummelling Syrian rebels either. Why's that I wonder?
This is close to how I feel about how off it all is.
As an aside I work with a Catalan and when we were first introduced I called her Spanish.
Only once.
Quote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 11:56:38 AMHave to say I'd like to see Epstein's list all the same, just to see a few lads squirming over it
Saw a bit on the Epstein list last night with Whitney Webb. Nothing significant is going to come out it looks like this release will just be crumbs to make people think they are not hiding anything. Apparently everyone that is on the list has agreed to be named and they have been ready preparing for months with legal people etc for any backlash.
A women who named Alan Dershowitz as being with her on the island when she was underage has come forth and said she got him mixed up with someone else which will also give anyone on the list an easy out as they can just use the same excuse.
Quote from: mickO))) on February 16, 2023, 01:03:53 PMQuote from: astfgyl on February 15, 2023, 11:56:38 AMHave to say I'd like to see Epstein's list all the same, just to see a few lads squirming over it
Saw a bit on the Epstein list last night with Whitney Webb. Nothing significant is going to come out it looks like this release will just be crumbs to make people think they are not hiding anything. Apparently everyone that is on the list has agreed to be named and they have been ready preparing for months with legal people etc for any backlash.
A women who named Alan Dershowitz as being with her on the island when she was underage has come forth and said she got him mixed up with someone else which will also give anyone on the list an easy out as they can just use the same excuse.
I think the whole thing will be a classic example of "too big to fail". If anything like the scale of what's suggested with the calibre of names that have been touted about unofficially, it will be buried deeper than the mother and baby homes
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2425775/Climate-scientists-told-cover-fact-Earths-temperature-risen-15-years.html
It's not the results that'll have us fucked then, more the interpretation of them and the chosen solutions to said interpretation.
That article took a very long time to get to this:
QuoteBut scientists are under pressure to explain why the warming has not exceeded 1998 levels although the decade 2000-2010 was the hottest on record.
I don't think they are under pressure to explain that, since they understand probability and statistics. Taking a broader window evens out the averages, so 2000-2010 being the hottest decade on record is a much more significant measurement than any given single year outside of that window being the hottest year (remember all those COVID mortality graphs, 3-day moving average, 7-day moving average; same logic). Hard to know what to say on the matter: it's not good to ask for facts to be redacted, but it's worse that scientific literacy is on average so low that their reasoning, though not right imo, is not without basis.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on March 08, 2023, 12:24:52 AMThat article took a very long time to get to this:
QuoteBut scientists are under pressure to explain why the warming has not exceeded 1998 levels although the decade 2000-2010 was the hottest on record.
I don't think they are under pressure to explain that, since they understand probability and statistics. Taking a broader window evens out the averages, so 2000-2010 being the hottest decade on record is a much more significant measurement than any given single year outside of that window being the hottest year (remember all those COVID mortality graphs, 3-day moving average, 7-day moving average; same logic). Hard to know what to say on the matter: it's not good to ask for facts to be redacted, but it's worse that scientific literacy is on average so low that their reasoning, though not right imo, is not without basis.
Don't get me wrong, I thought about the decade Vs year thing too but there's so much conflicting stuff and much of it political from both sides that it's getting impossible to get to the bottom of it so it's like pick a belief and run with it.
Same reason I gave up on the covid argument. It's just mostly beyond me but seemingly beyond many nations and scientific groups too
There really isn't much conflicting stuff at the level of measurement and observation. Genuine conflict comes in when people slice up the data to suit and push an agenda. Scientists aren't immune to this kind of behavior, but when they do so they're acting as activists, not scientists. Here's how a scientist looks at the data, in this case comparing record temperatures in 2016 with those in 1998 and commenting on what, if anything, they mean as isolated data points. Spoiler: "not really" anything.
QuoteGlobally, 2016 edged out 1998 by +0.02 C to become the warmest year in the 38-year satellite temperature record, according to Dr. John Christy, director of the Earth System Science Center at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. Because the margin of error is about 0.10 C, this would technically be a statistical tie, with a higher probability that 2016 was warmer than 1998. The main difference was the extra warmth in the Northern Hemisphere in 2016 compared to 1998.
"The question is, does 2016's record warmth mean anything scientifically?" Christy said. "I suppose the answer is, not really. Both 1998 and 2016 are anomalies, outliers, and in both cases we have an easily identifiable cause for that anomaly: A powerful El Niño Pacific Ocean warming event. While El Niños are natural climatic events, they also are transient. In the study of climate, we are more concerned with accurately identifying long-term temperature trends than we are with short-term spikes and dips, especially when those spikes and dips have easily identified natural causes.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170104130257.htm
A good question is if you are going to do rolling averages then what time frame is appropriate for climate? A decade? A hundred year rolling average, a thousand year rolling average?
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/global-temperatures
Not really seeing where these are saying the temperature hasnt increased - i.e that daily mail thing says it stopped for a period. I think what they did was average a few years(rolling average) and draw a line like this ->
(https://chat.google.com/u/1/api/get_attachment_url?url_type=FIFE_URL&content_type=image%2Fpng&attachment_token=AMzByC3%2BgT9bbVGoQj4nbAvr1BsVSLbMwfLlGKOmNryeOhd1oebruffVVGxy03h9fhoiW0w4HFAeEbZEhkLeTL9Mo3dSSr793lapZMeJZaIWgMq%2FA7UglOFosiLzR0Jrlwzh0Pya2QinsWiqTWribpwjAAv%2BTylrP1VjittEd0HZdk%2F8n6tkWy%2BDQMoz3Uy2lVfXJnRweC55kygZrb4PaaxCsO2xEJ68lqIhtMeOojJ9yNCrd2Zkh7sb1VEd5CoFpG8FE3qWdDqAQ4%2F3Bi%2BUk5Az%2BdQVvgj%2FR%2Fz%2BS1FLAbjyVttLfAWeCw%2BE5fETZNivpn8zZYmPWAvfq%2FnZUHtIJGjTOg1eJq9PdhDDMOB3ixcWn9NCdYkSAvRD5aOM4C1M0jN9jyqse3ATByoGTo6KlM1KhEB%2BBPuMLkHTm67VIvAyFnMImNPda4KcgKVznizRwOPtFJnahEPjiL%2BPbA3VZ%2F74Y5nSGdKQTTOJ9P132BG1%2BiuEuW%2FkqzAI5cX2G%2BkplXUgeGgAb7IPRddMMmfoq1z2JjlbQU3GqjiyDdVa6f6f3iPS95cOqceeNJf3Icqnhw%3D%3D&authuser=1&sz=w1873-h961)
Statistical noise!
It is a good question. Depends on the scientific question being asked, right? If you want to try to assess the contribution of man-made activity since the industrial revolution, so say the last ~150 years or so, then a century or anything longer won't tell you much. But if you want to compare the temperature rise in that period to temperature rises within a similar window earlier in history, then a hundred year window would be more appropriate. And moving forward, even if the dominant cause (man-made or natural) of temperature rise remained a bit of a mystery, the more practical question would be whether opposing man-made activities can redress the rise (flatten the curve! :laugh: ). And for that, you'd be again hoping that ten-year windows could reveal something, since if it takes a hundred years to assess differences, then it will be very difficult to evaluate whether a given strategy is the right one. That challenge might ultimately be insurmountable, but differences observable within 10-year (or 20-year, but definitely less than 100-year) windows is what strategy needs to aim for. At least, that's how I see it, and as I said, that doesn't rule out the potential impossibility of man-made "corrections" having any observable difference.
Quote from: The Butcher on March 08, 2023, 10:00:48 AMA good question is if you are going to do rolling averages then what time frame is appropriate for climate? A decade? A hundred year rolling average, a thousand year rolling average?
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/global-temperatures
Not really seeing where these are saying the temperature hasnt increased - i.e that daily mail thing says it stopped for a period. I think what they did was average a few years(rolling average) and draw a line like this ->
(https://chat.google.com/u/1/api/get_attachment_url?url_type=FIFE_URL&content_type=image%2Fpng&attachment_token=AMzByC3%2BgT9bbVGoQj4nbAvr1BsVSLbMwfLlGKOmNryeOhd1oebruffVVGxy03h9fhoiW0w4HFAeEbZEhkLeTL9Mo3dSSr793lapZMeJZaIWgMq%2FA7UglOFosiLzR0Jrlwzh0Pya2QinsWiqTWribpwjAAv%2BTylrP1VjittEd0HZdk%2F8n6tkWy%2BDQMoz3Uy2lVfXJnRweC55kygZrb4PaaxCsO2xEJ68lqIhtMeOojJ9yNCrd2Zkh7sb1VEd5CoFpG8FE3qWdDqAQ4%2F3Bi%2BUk5Az%2BdQVvgj%2FR%2Fz%2BS1FLAbjyVttLfAWeCw%2BE5fETZNivpn8zZYmPWAvfq%2FnZUHtIJGjTOg1eJq9PdhDDMOB3ixcWn9NCdYkSAvRD5aOM4C1M0jN9jyqse3ATByoGTo6KlM1KhEB%2BBPuMLkHTm67VIvAyFnMImNPda4KcgKVznizRwOPtFJnahEPjiL%2BPbA3VZ%2F74Y5nSGdKQTTOJ9P132BG1%2BiuEuW%2FkqzAI5cX2G%2BkplXUgeGgAb7IPRddMMmfoq1z2JjlbQU3GqjiyDdVa6f6f3iPS95cOqceeNJf3Icqnhw%3D%3D&authuser=1&sz=w1873-h961)
Statistical noise!
They did, but they're all arguing now about how to present what data they have so I dunno. It certainly doesn't feel any warmer here
https://www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/motoring/drivers-just-discovering-magic-button-29404801
Yeah we're fucked lol
As a race, most are getting Dumber imo. Take the above for example all modern ford cars and vans have a quick clear windscreen. On the worst of mornings 30/60 secs will clear it. For the last 3 years I've watched my neighbour out with the kettle to his 17 reg mondeo. I'd tell him but he's a stupid c#nt.
The amount of cracked windscreens ive seen over the years from the above, but people just don't get it.
Quote from: Hellyeah on March 10, 2023, 07:51:45 PMAs a race, most are getting Dumber imo. Take the above for example all modern ford cars and vans have a quick clear windscreen. On the worst of mornings 30/60 secs will clear it. For the last 3 years I've watched my neighbour out with the kettle to his 17 reg mondeo. I'd tell him but he's a stupid c#nt.
The amount of cracked windscreens ive seen over the years from the above, but people just don't get it.
No they're mostly thick as something that even shit would be ashamed of. I'm not from this world for the most part and thank fucking god
Agreed 👍👍
A lot of lads can drive the car to work and back or across town to the in-laws or the Chinese take away. Unfamiliar routes or a fogged up rear windscreen or, god forbid, a flat tyre will induce panic and terror. Maybe it's different now but when I learned to drive, you could fail for crossing your arms whilst turning the steering wheel, but the most rudimentary elements of car maintenance or knowledge of the electrics etc? Ha ha, don't worry about that! Just stretch your neck so John next to you knows you're looking in your mirrors long enough.
Sure you don't even need to change a tyre these days. Most new cars Don't even come with a spare, only that expanding foam stuff so you can get the to the tyre centre.
I had a brand new rental car while when my own was being fixed and fucking hated it. Three types of handbrake settings and ten buttons for adjusting the seat, had to get a youtube video to figure out how to move it back. What was wrong with a couple of simple levers?
All the temperature settings, sound, everything was controlled by a touch screen console in the middle so you have to take your eyes off the road to change anything instead of just feeling for the switches. Over engineered bollocks....
My car has one of those little flick handbrakes but the light on the display panel to tell you it's off doesn't come on until you push the accelerator. In the mornings it's easy forget whether you've clicked it off or not.
And don't get me started with the Bluetooth for choons. I'd get a CD player installed if the installation didn't cost two mortgage payments.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00799-3
Paywall on it but the opening paragraph is an interesting idea. I assume the same goes for journalism of all kinds?
Quote from: astfgyl on March 21, 2023, 07:06:46 PMhttps://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00799-3
Paywall on it but the opening paragraph is an interesting idea. I assume the same goes for journalism of all kinds?
Politics is too polarizing for people so anything it touches will garner that type of feedback.
Content creation will change completely in the next few years ->
https://twitter.com/stopsatgreen/status/1636042802168578058
Sure that seems basic enough but as we've seen with the likes of photoshop since the late 90s, these things improve fast enough.
Yep that's why I think as many things as possible should stay apolitical and why I am dead set against things like the kneeling in soccer or even the Ukraine stuff getting everywhere. Not because they may or may not be good causes but just because apolitical things should stay apolitical
Individuals should be allowed a margin of freedom to express their views where and how they see fit. The reaction to Kaepernick's original gesture was a far louder statement of institutional politics than was his act as an individual. The subsequent generalization of taking the knee was a response to that reaction.
Same in science; any scientist should be allowed a margin of freedom to express their political views, but I also agree it's not proper for a scientific journal to do so, and loads of us said at the time that it could only serve to entrench science deniers of all stripes. That said, science is not and never has been apolitical. Follow where most of the great names of the scientific revolutions got their funding from, and why, and that quickly becomes clear. Not to mention expressions we now take for granted, like "survival of the fittest", which is not a Darwin original, but was added only in the last edition of the Origin under the insistence of one Herbert Spencer, who wished to make his personal interpretation of Darwin's theory of evolution the basis for social and economic policy. And so on and so on and so on, with examples ad infinitum both classic and contemporary. If people accepted the reality of it, when it comes to individuals, rather than throwing up their hands every time it happens in a manner that doesn't suit them, it would be less of a big deal.
Sure that's a fair point that it has always been some way political but as little as possible would be the way.
I still think sports professionals should be forbidden from making political statements on the pitch or whatever but they should definitely be allowed to air their views on interviews etc in the interests of free speech.
Maybe the same for a science journal, so what if several of the contributors or editors have strong political views just still don't publish it in the bloody journal
https://t.co/VCu0vRqp0M
Here's some interesting reading I came across. Might have posted it before but it's the UK plan for the green future.
Will it work?
https://www.adzuna.co.uk/jobs/details/4095390986
Reckon it's real? I'm skeptical enough myself but as far as just looking at the link (found on Twitter) it looks realistic enough.
Would you take the 20k and the citizenship if it was going? There would hardly be many takers for a thing like that.
Has to be shit anyway the more I'm thinking about it surely anyone could put the ad in as long as they paid for it.
If it's real would you reckon there's going to be many applying?
Different kind of fucked here. Mate just sent me this daft ad for what looks like a portacabin, looks about an hour outside Cork City, middle of nowhere, €1200 a month. Just looking at the pictures makes me want a prozac:
https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-lackabane-donoughmore-co-cork/5187365
Must have been snapped up, it's not there anymore.
Ah, pity. Could have been a perfect place for someone thinking of doing a bedroom suicidal black metal project.
There was someone listing a fucking 2 bed in Turner's Cross in the classifieds in work today for €3,150 a month. Over 3. Fucking. Grand. They were quite defensive when people simply commented the price was beyond insane.
I wonder which TD owns that one
3 Grand+? To rent? In Turners Cross?
These cunts have no shame whatsoever. That is approximately 4 mortgage payments on my gaff.
Exactly. Laughing at the notions of it but it's pure cuntology.
https://twitter.com/SHomburg/status/1659778679734521856?t=hpuGHZj0M3kTm87AfWPBig&s=19
Here's more cuntology. Well ok tbf we have moved on significantly in a scientific sense since then in that someone has found a way to tax you for that shapeshifting bold climate change. That's a significant scientific shift if I've ever seen one! And when I say shift I don't mean movement, I mean akin to getting the shift and then getting rode by The Science after and they keep shushing in your ear when you scream.
So which is worse, freezing or burning?
Or would the avarice involved in thinking we can either convince people we can either cause it or fix it with our current level of knowledge of the interaction of infinite interconnected systems (any one of which could cause any number of impossible to predict outcomes), trump all possible outcomes? I think maybe so and here we are
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/PeerReviewedPapersComparingGlobalWarmingAndCoolingIn1970s.jpg)
Which ones were better funded? Can you do a breakdown by how many pigeons were shot in each year of the analysis? Talking shit and you know it.
Wtfhappenedinnineteenwhatever.com
The question you should be asking yourself is who, in 1979, was funding Leonard Nimoy predicting an ice age, as opposed to global warming, on television. Or maybe it was just typical tv ratings sensationalism.
Either way, I don't really know what you're trying to conclude from a section from a mass media tv show, but even in 1979, the consensus was clearly heading in one direction.
The question you should be asking yourself (now that we're full enough of ourselves to think we're too clever for the questions that the other lads are asking, even though we don't know the answer) is:
Which prediction was worth more in terms of gross profit?
When it's cold it's cold. When it's warm you owe money. Wow how surprising. Load of bollix the whole premise.
The term playing god comes to mind but then that notion will be wasted on the politically indoctrinated because they have already been captured.
How much money do you reckon it's going to cost to fix the earth's climate at a temperature where you won't have to pay or lose some of your freedom for it? :laugh: :laugh:
Worth more to who? A prediction of an ice age was worth lots to people in the business of burning stuff. That's not controversial, right? A prediction, in the 1970s, of global heating... I don't know who that was profitable to back then tbh.
Profitable to whoever offered the solution.
Have you ever read The Sneetches? Honestly like
I've never read any Dr.Seuss as it happens :laugh:
What I'm saying is that, in 1979, I don't know who was offering solutions, profitable solutions, to an impending global warming event. But I do know who was in the business of heating stuff. And I know that they had more money than anyone else at the time. Do you have any idea about who stood to make money by claiming an impending global warming event back then? Today it's easy to point to lots of companies and interests, but back then, genuinely, I can't think of any. Only because I've never thought about it before. So?
Grand no bother. Basically the whole thing is The Sneetches anyway. It might be warming, it might be cooling but regardless there's a whole selection of shit mofos who are going to sell you both the problem and the solution and neither will be either.
The meta analysis scientific method can do whatever as far as I'm concerned because it's too compromised to do any good in its current iteration. You might think different and fair enough sometimes but it's all gone balls
Okay. But just so you know that the video with Leonard Nimoy, which spurred you into a spiel about "cuntology", was already a minority belief when it was aired, due to progress in science which you are free to poo-poo as you wish. The rationale for doing so escapes me tbh, as it would almost require that the robustness of science in every other discipline was being used as a cover for this one narrative, which I guess is why stuff like this is popular with flat earthers, since they'd have no problem believing that. As they form their online communities using phones that have built-in GPS devices. Who knows, maybe in 200 years people will share clips from Ancient Aliens to try and say that in the 21st century the belief was that aliens had built the pyramids and directed evolution :)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on May 25, 2023, 10:22:04 PMOkay. But just so you know that the video with Leonard Nimoy, which spurred you into a spiel about "cuntology", was already a minority belief when it was aired, due to progress in science which you are free to poo-poo as you wish. The rationale for doing so escapes me tbh, as it would almost require that the robustness of science in every other discipline was being used as a cover for this one narrative, which I guess is why stuff like this is popular with flat earthers, since they'd have no problem believing that. As they form their online communities using phones that have built-in GPS devices. Who knows, maybe in 200 years people will share clips from Ancient Aliens to try and say that in the 21st century the belief was that aliens had built the pyramids and directed evolution :)
No not just this one discipline, it's all of them. Infected by money.
I do thank the stars that I've a counterpoint in you in general and please don't ever change
Edit: Cuntology: the sciences of cunting
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-news-boss-apologises-for-broadcaster-not-linking-recent-extreme-weather-events-to-climate-change/40692616.html
There ye go
Spastics.
Weaponising good weather and anyone who buys in is retarded
Agreed. Was doing a delivery last week and as all good drivers do "got chatting about the weather" to said customer are you enjoying.
Response " no not enjoying at all, this climate change is terrible"
I can't believe people, if your that worried about your carbon footprint and all that bollix just kill yourself.
Hot weather in summer. What next- cold weather in winter?! We're all doomed :P
I am still on the fence on this one, surprise, surprise. I think this sort of scare mongering bullshit is ridiculous and doesn't really offer a solution other than raising people's stress levels and possibly contributing to people deciding not to have kids, which could pose other sorts of problems down the line for society.
I do believe that climate change is real and I do think something needs to be done, but I think it is being done in the places where it may actually make a difference. Electric cars and renewable energy, while currently imperfect, should in time help to reduce emissions.
The worry is that it's too late whatever we do. There might be a reasonable humanitarian argument to be made for western countries to help to engineer cities in developing countries, to defend them from the fallout of rising sea levels, which seems to be the major concern.
As always anything that can be done to protect and conserve wildlife in all forms, regardless of climate change, should be made paramount.
But putting the shits up people over a heat wave is just bullshit. Ireland is no stranger to occasional bouts of extreme weather.
The oversell by people who are outright lying about everything else is the only thing that raised any suspicion on my part. Like everything else these days there is probably a point in there somewhere. Wading through the river of nonsense and hysteria to get at it has proved entirely too difficult though.
Agreed. Unless you agree wholesale with the current gospels, you are a heretic, skepticism is nazism.
Covenanting Calvinists in 16th and 17th century Scotland (total fanatics) have nothing on the current wankers decreeing to you and I.
Quote from: Caomhaoin on June 18, 2023, 09:38:31 AMCovenanting Calvinists in 16th and 17th century Scotland (total fanatics) have nothing on the current wankers decreeing to you and I.
I must have missed the news of torture and beheadings of climate skeptics :laugh:
Difficult balance to strike, regarding reporting on the weather. Living somewhere where the increasing heat is tangible in a far from comfortable way for a lengthening amount of time every year, it's maybe a little different. Several meteorologists here last year were ripping into the media for not talking about global warming while talking about it being great beach weather at the same time that forests for miles and miles around were uncontrollably ablaze. Unsurprisingly though, I see reporting of climate conditions as similar to how immigration, housing, COVID, etc., has been reported: in a way that skims over the deep underlying aggravating causes, most of which are tied up, directly or indirectly, with sponsorship and advertising deals between whichever media and whichever industries, including financial institutions. Personally, I do believe that there is a certain significant margin of life-threatening climate activity which is under human control (for the worse, as things stand). But human in this case can be too easily used to cloud over the industrial aspect. The average Paddy being made feel guilty for enjoying a day at the beach in June is not going to help move things in the right direction if our concept of "the right direction" reduces to "Sort out your recycling properly Paddy, the planet's burning!"
Beyond the activists, take a look at who else
is paying attention to climate change:
https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2023/0601/1386813-climate-change-tourism/
This article here, from June 1st, is one of those occasions where someone lets the cat out of the bag in terms of bottom-dollar candidness:
QuoteOne such sector where opportunities will arise is tourism. The fact that Europe is warming twice as fast as Ireland means that the risk of extreme weather events in Europe - during the summer months in particular - are growing twice as fast as in Ireland.
That means far greater risks of a family summer to Europe being ruined by extreme heat, forest fires, flash flooding, and other climate disasters. It also means that many European holiday makers will be on the lookout for some relatively cool weather during the peak summer months. Where better to come then, than Ireland?
Fáilte Ireland, which is responsible for promoting Ireland as a tourist destination for domestic and international holidaymakers, has its eyes firmly on this prize and is beginning to recognise that climate change could have some positive benefits for its sector.
This kind of always and forever focus on virtual profit, regardless of what's happening to the physical, material resources we actually rely on as a biological species, this is the mentality that has put us in this situation. Think about it: we live on an island, the vast majority of tourists arrive by air, i.e. the worst mode of transport for the atmosphere, yet projecting into a future where the atmosphere will already be measurably less welcoming to our own life-form than it is now, those who stand to profit are already preparing to promote increased air transport.
In short, enjoy your day at the beach, and when you get home in the evening, think about how you can help topple capitalism :P
Quote from: Caomhaoin on June 18, 2023, 09:38:31 AMAgreed. Unless you agree wholesale with the current gospels, you are a heretic, skepticism is nazism.
Covenanting Calvinists in 16th and 17th century Scotland (total fanatics) have nothing on the current wankers decreeing to you and I.
Yeah,it's protected along with the other commandments of our lord and saviour woke. heresy (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/rte-news-boss-apologises-for-broadcaster-not-linking-recent-extreme-weather-events-to-climate-change/40692616.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjauJ-R58z_AhVNQ0EAHR7pCicQFnoECAYQAg&usg=AOvVaw299ogPHIXZFvUlLpWpHSWU)
'Extreme weather events'. What is this daft cunt even on about.
In a country that recently overturned the presumption of innocence who knows anymore.
Yeah, scientifically defined concepts, fuckin' woke bollocks! :laugh:
Yeah, good man, thanks.
Trust the science folks.
Any time someone talks about extreme weather events it's objectively possible to state whether the use is accurate or inaccurate without resorting to mocking the term itself. It's just a question of probabilities.
Yeah but the language is inappropriate for the average viewer. A hurricane is an extreme weather event for the regular punter, not a heat wave.
Hence the call for the average punter to be better informed. The difficult balance is to do so without guilt-tripping said punter rather than poking where it really counts.
If "this is a highly unusual pattern for our climate and is cause for concern" can be interpreted as a guilt trip by the punter that is squarely a punter issue and can't be reconciled by anyone but the individual themselves wising up.
Another fucking moronic comment I saw in this vein RE ocean temperatures being 4 to 5 degrees C above normal (!!!!) in the North Atlantic currently was "well you have that shown in red on your graph to scare people but most people would actually find it freezing if they jumped in the water so it's not extreme".
This is the level of discourse/understanding we're dealing with, so yeah, we're beyond fucked.
I know what you mean, but have there been, for example, any significant improvements in public transport in Ireland recently?
The most recent Greenpeace survey of European capital cities ranked Dublin 30th out of 30 for public transport accessibility, etc.
https://greenpeace.at/uploads/2023/05/report-climate-and-public-transport-tickets-in-europe.pdf
(see page 15)
In those circumstances, though we can at the same time wish for the average punter to thicken their hide with respect to accurate descriptions of reality like you quoted "highly unusual pattern for our climate and is cause for concern", it's also a bit more understandable why they feel like they are being guilt-tripped, in the sense that more or less explicit pressure is being put upon them to change their behavior yet at the same time almost nothing is being done at the institutional or industrial level to facilitate such change.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on June 19, 2023, 01:22:00 PMIf "this is a highly unusual pattern for our climate and is cause for concern" can be interpreted as a guilt trip by the punter that is squarely a punter issue and can't be reconciled by anyone but the individual themselves wising up.
Another fucking moronic comment I saw in this vein RE ocean temperatures being 4 to 5 degrees C above normal (!!!!) in the North Atlantic currently was "well you have that shown in red on your graph to scare people but most people would actually find it freezing if they jumped in the water so it's not extreme".
This is the level of discourse/understanding we're dealing with, so yeah, we're beyond fucked.
Nah, I'll leave it.
Interesting Twitter thread here summing up the massive headway China is making in the sphere of renewable energy reliance. They are flying ahead of "western" nations:
https://twitter.com/KyleTrainEmoji/status/1680243524124516352
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-irishindependent-idUSL1N2Z11JB
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://twitter.com/Andercot/status/1686215574177841152?t=Amzkkfmmh4JBcHdP4Dj7Cg&s=19
Lk-99 room temperature superconductor supposedly. Would be really cool if it worked but I see there's a lot of videos debunking it already. Hopefully it is something anyway, I feel we'd be less fucked in a lot of ways
Nah!.... Not a fucking clue. :-\
Anyone getting climate boiled yet?
Global boiling was a level of hystreonic twaddle that's embarrassing even by the pitiful standards of the Irish media.
Irish media? Was it not the UN secretary general who said it? Stupid thing to say whoever it was.
In any case, since "global boiling" has made me think of hot water, and then hot seas, here's a very interesting piece of science news from last week re the spike in sea temperatures:
https://www.science.org/content/article/changing-clouds-unforeseen-test-geoengineering-fueling-record-ocean-warmth
Quoteresearchers are now waking up to another factor, one that could be filed under the category of unintended consequences: disappearing clouds known as ship tracks. Regulations imposed in 2020 by the United Nations's International Maritime Organization (IMO) have cut ships' sulfur pollution by more than 80% and improved air quality worldwide. The reduction has also lessened the effect of sulfate particles in seeding and brightening the distinctive low-lying, reflective clouds that follow in the wake of ships and help cool the planet.
So far as I know this hasn't really been featured on mainstream news sites, but please don't do a "They're hiding it!" because Science is the most renowned and prestigious venue for novel research on the planet, and it's also been covered by at least one of the biggest science popularizers on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk8pwE3IByg
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on August 09, 2023, 05:48:52 PMIn any case, since "global boiling" has made me think of hot water, and then hot seas, here's a very interesting piece of science news from last week re the spike in sea temperatures:
https://www.science.org/content/article/changing-clouds-unforeseen-test-geoengineering-fueling-record-ocean-warmth
So far as I know this hasn't really been featured on mainstream news sites, but please don't do a "They're hiding it!" because Science is the most renowned and prestigious venue for novel research on the planet, and it's also been covered by at least one of the biggest science popularizers on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk8pwE3IByg
It's plausible re: the sulphur emissions - but do you really believe you can draw a straight line from reduced sulphur emissions to the 2023 temperature spike? It's way more complicated than that, and even if it weren't, it couldn't move that fast. For example:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/
I love at the end of that video he then goes on to promote coffee that is "shipped" from Columbia :laugh:
I don't believe you can draw a "straight line" between essentially any two real-world variables, no matter what they are :laugh:
All I said to accompany the links was that this news is interesting. And it is, it has all sorts of interesting implications for future research and action as well as public reception of climate science. I didn't actually watch all of the video, but enough to hear that he at least mentions other contributing factors, e.g. a significant drop in Saharan dust in the atmosphere this year, also mentioned in the Science article and in the article you've shared too (also v. interesting, thanks). Empirically working through all potential causal contributors to the spike is going to throw up things which, for the moment, are unknowns. One such eventuality is that the "final" data may require revision of things like our estimates of the magnitude and time-frame of SO2 decrease-related warming boosts. Do I "really believe" that will happen? No. But more importantly, do I also really not believe it will happen? Also no :D
That's all fine and I didn't mean to say YOU were drawing the straight line to both points, more so that video (you of all people like to point out the general gist that is given off with any misleading video etc) and 90% of the comments are as follows:
"Totally mindblowing that we were accidentally shielding ourselves from the effects of climate change by ... accidentally doing more climate change that we didn't fully understand."
"The cloud thing caused by the ships is INSANE and then inadvertently causing this spike in temperature is also insane "
"This has me more optimistic about our ability to fix this than any of the news we have had in years"
And from the link I posted it's predicted a 0.045c warming boost over decades regards the sulfur pollution reduction (probably one of the reasons it's not mainstream, perhaps I'm giving the mainstream too much credit there :laugh: ). I would take that predicted increase that over the few million premature deaths linked to air pollution around ships etc. Skin deep warming in patches too - average ocean depth is about 3.6km.
The point is - a lot of people watching that video and/or reading those articles think this links directly to the temp spike this year and it's an easy fix, he may mention those other factors in passing but it's not the main gist of the video and most of the comments back that up.
I get it, I shouldn't have posted the video, just the Science article! :laugh:
We'll have to wait and see. There's only a month between your Carbon Brief one and the Science one, but the latter is already citing studies that weren't yet complete the month previous. Very much a work in progress, or as that article concludes:
QuoteAfter a few more years, Wood says, "We're really going to have something to say about these cloud adjustments."
How many pages before we all realise that we are actually fucked because everything is so subjective? Can't end well surely?
That would be convenient, if it were true. For example, all three sources above, despite differences about the ship tracks (which are a new phenomenon) agree on a central point. As the article I
didn't post myself concludes:
QuoteIn summary, the primary driver of climate change remains CO2 emissions from fossil fuels.
4.9% of 0.04 = 0.00196.
That's a lot of heavy lifting done by that little bit of atmosphere. I'm not convinced. Do we all think that climate would be stable without human emissions, we do?
https://vpnoverview.com/news/wifi-routers-used-to-produce-3d-images-of-humans/
QuoteIn fact, most households in developed countries already have WiFi at home, and this technology may be scaled to monitor the well-being of elder people or just identify suspicious behaviors at home.
We are up to 3 degrees now Ted. Article really should have stated that it's global boiling nowadays.
https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/11/20/climate-change-global-warming-approaching-three-degrees-this-century-un-report-warns/
"broken promises, broken lives and broken records" not in the slightest bit melodramatic. Whose lives are broken? Greta and who else?
No point going further afield with you, but farmers all across southern Europe for one thing (including my utterly non-woke father-in-law and his 50 years of experience tracking climate conditions and harvest quantities):
https://www.tradefinanceglobal.com/posts/heatflation-warning-as-2022-eu-crop-harvests-affected-by-climate-change/
So far we're only really feeling the effects of that in terms of price via inflation due to reduced but not exhausted stocks. We'll see how that all develops between now and 2030.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-eamon-ryan-leo-varadkar-opens-door-to-green-leader-taking-top-job-if-coalition-parties-are-re-elected/a935608551.html
These lads really don't want to be reelected do they
https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1746914238935818583?t=AdO-JcyYG85DYSSxQii0Qw&s=19
This lad is off his game the war loving cunt
Quote from: astfgyl on January 16, 2024, 09:14:25 PMhttps://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1746914238935818583?t=AdO-JcyYG85DYSSxQii0Qw&s=19
This lad is off his game the war loving cunt
Old Blighty gone and brexited itself into a Napoleon complex!
I think he's actually on the ball, to be honest, moreso than a lot of his peers who are allowing us lovely Westerners to sleepwalk into a deliberately engineered social disintegration. The Western way of life is very definietely under attack, it's just a shame he doesn't recognise Brexit was a fundamental part of it. He did use the Eurofighter as part of his presentation, however, so maybe this is a subtle way of saying "We were wrong, Brussels, please take us back!"
The UK are and have long been one of the engineers of global conflict, not a party who merely react to aggressions that happen to enter their sphere of influence. They're also the second biggest arms producer and exporter in the world. Second only to their bum-chum the US. I don't think "on the ball" is the expression to use when they have so much control over where the ball goes. Any and all further global conflict is, above all, a lovely little earning opportunity.
Yep, absolutely all true, however I still think the efforts of Russia and China to destabilise and, ultimately, break up Europe have gained a lot of traction in the social media age and they have upped their efforts in return. I'd consider our way of life, as shady as it is, to be very much threatened by them and, in that sense, consider him to be on the ball indeed.
Ya, those threats have long been known though. Which is why this feels to me more like a sales pitch than anything else, albeit a sales pitch for tooling up and kicking off WWIII.
In short, and correct me if I've got you wrong, "on the ball" makes it sound like this is GB preparing to preempt military confrontations which are on the way whether they like it or not. Though not at all denying Russia, China, Iran, etc., are threats, I'd nevertheless be contending that GB are just as likely as almost any other player to participate in engineering large and lengthy military confrontations out of more limited, local tensions. It would serve their own interests (in the short term, before the planet collapses, at least) on multiple fronts.
Entirely with the Shep on this one. That video is rotten to the core.
If he agrees to be the first on the frontline I'm in.
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 17, 2024, 11:39:21 PMIf he agrees to be the first on the frontline I'm in.
Aye, riding into Moscow on horseback, the cunt :laugh:
20240125_182206.jpg
Well as long as these bastards keep selling us out to the vultures, then yeah fairly fucked indeed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_state
The guys that brought you ChatGPT now have Sora ->
https://openai.com/sora
Mindblowing, some of that is high quality CGI that would take AGES to do by yourself in Blender or other tools. I did say before maybe in 20 years time we'd be able to remake Game Of Thrones season 8 (and parts of 7) - maybe that will happen much much sooner than I thought possible ???
Related, and definitely related to the "are we all fucked?" as concerns science, a paper made it through "peer review" (at a family of journals whose reputation has been in freefall for a while, but still) whose figures had been entirely generated with Midjourney, and were absolute nonsense: biologically nonsense, and also including uncorrected nonsense hallucinated terminology. Click here for giant rat balls in your area now! :laugh:
https://twitter.com/MadS100tist/status/1758128836523548858
:laugh: :laugh: 'Tramioncatiion of zxepens' that's hilarious! They must be using some AI filter to conduct the 'peer review'
Frontiers is the 3rd most-cited and 6th largest research publisher. We publish groundbreaking discoveries by the world's top experts. :-X
Quote from: The Butcher on February 16, 2024, 09:29:11 AM:laugh: :laugh: 'Tramioncatiion of zxepens' that's hilarious!
Looking forward to the split lp with Moenen Of Xzezbeth
https://www.newstalk.com/news/empathy-classes-introduced-in-transition-year-its-like-a-muscle-1650541
Quote from: open face surgery on March 11, 2024, 08:03:12 PMhttps://www.newstalk.com/news/empathy-classes-introduced-in-transition-year-its-like-a-muscle-1650541
This kind of nonsense will fast be coming to an end. The spanners that thought up this crap will have the rest of their lives to be reminded of their descent into stupidity.
Quote from: hellfire on March 11, 2024, 08:54:01 PMQuote from: open face surgery on March 11, 2024, 08:03:12 PMhttps://www.newstalk.com/news/empathy-classes-introduced-in-transition-year-its-like-a-muscle-1650541
This kind of nonsense will fast be coming to an end. The spanners that thought up this crap will have the rest of their lives to be reminded of their descent into stupidity.
Soon but not soon enough
Quote from: hellfire on March 11, 2024, 08:54:01 PMQuote from: open face surgery on March 11, 2024, 08:03:12 PMhttps://www.newstalk.com/news/empathy-classes-introduced-in-transition-year-its-like-a-muscle-1650541
This kind of nonsense will fast be coming to an end. The spanners that thought up this crap will have the rest of their lives to be reminded of their descent into stupidity.
Not that they'll be thinking it's a descent into stupidity themselves, but I reckon, whether this particular initiative succeeds or fails, Professor Pat Dolan, Cillian Murphy, and Colum McCann will probably be kept busy enough with the rest of their lives either way :laugh:
Settled science!
https://phys.org/news/2024-03-mars-earth-interactions-red-planet.html
Quote from: The Butcher on March 12, 2024, 08:21:33 PMSettled science!
https://phys.org/news/2024-03-mars-earth-interactions-red-planet.html
QuoteThey discovered a surprising 2.4-million-year cycle where deep currents wax and wane, which in turn is linked to periods of increased solar energy and a warmer climate.
That's where they lost me, for what I would hope are obvious reasons..
Edit: Turns out none of the seven foreign aid-workers killed were Irish. Possible someone mistook the Polish passport for an Irish one.
RIP in any case.
I'll try not descend into the madness of that particular hellish quagmire other than it's beyond words at this stage and unfortunately I cannot see a proper solution to that forever conflict that doesn't involve more suffering for more innocent people.
https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/indonesian-transgender-climate-change-bandung-b2522422.html
Not all of us, apparently :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Good fucking Lord won't somebody think of the transgender indonesian sex workers and just stop driving your cars and being warm in your homes!!!! >:(
Even funnier is that what the article actually goes on to say is that climate change is actually saving the transgender sex workers from the sex work and now their lives are improving because of it. Ah jaysus this stuff has to be taking the piss but I actually checked the date and it's not April 1st
Conservative USA folks, confident ignorance central:
https://twitter.com/bibleradioapp/status/1781575636236247533
(Tucker Carlson denies the evolution of novel species on Joe Rogan, reasserts that "God created people [and animals] distinctly")
Well both God's Creation Theory and Evolutionary Theory have gaps in them and could also mutually exist in even the simplest of minds while also keeping a little room for the Simulation Theory as a possibility in there but of course at the end of the day they all go round in circles and finish with The Great Unknown which is how did it all get here. I suppose with the evolution you can see natural selection in real time in some examples. One that springs to mind is of butterflies in England going through natural selection which was interesting and certainly more interesting than tucker carlson saying he thinks God did it in some direct fashion. I think it seems more enlightened to consider that both the sciences and the magick can coexist simply by taking the view that there's loads we can only guess at for now and if lads want to take the God thing with the science they can just accept that evolution is part of God's Creation as best we can see it and now the God crowd don't have to be in opposition to anything. I think the aborigines have it best in their creation story which I was reading about in an old encyclopedia (1960s iirc) a few years back (was stuck for something to read while on the jacks, "A" was the closest letter) and it explained it as going something like "in the beginning, humans were the same as the animals. Then something magic happened and now they're like this instead".
Wait fuck this I'm gone off on a tangent altogether. Carlson oh yeah what was he on about again ah I dunno
https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/tea/magazine/hajj-disasters-stampedes-infernos-and-a-bloody-siege-4280708
Before anyone starts saying the Hajj thing is a sign of global warming, here's an article of completely unrelated disasters that happened in other years
Why "before"? That doesn't make sense precisely because those previous disasters were unrelated to temperature.
So far so manageable here towards the Atlantic coast, but I'm already dreading August.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 20, 2024, 09:31:21 AMWhy "before"? That doesn't make sense precisely because those previous disasters were unrelated to temperature.
So far so manageable here towards the Atlantic coast, but I'm already dreading August.
I was trying to be funny was all. I'd actually come across the article as a sort of rebuttal myself and was amazed upon reading it that none of the previous appeared in any way heat related. I'll keep half an eye for more though because I wouldn't be too surprised if the headlines aren't telling the full story because headlines need to be screaming or nobody sees them. I'll see anyway I suppose, if I remember to look.
Weather here is lovely at the minute, nice and warm but not baking in the relentless heat or anything
Yes we are all fucked. And in ways only paranoid lads like myself saw coming
https://x.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1814004710824988711
You and Charlie Brooker!
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 20, 2024, 12:38:03 AMYou and Charlie Brooker!
Did he have something like that as well? I only know him from Screenwipe
Black Mirror..?
[quote[ author=Black Shepherd Carnage link=msg=102770 date=1721437519]
Black Mirror..?
[/quote]
Ah yeah fuck I knew that and he wrote it I knew that but I've only ever seen 2 or 3 eps of Black Mirror. It was grand and all but it just passed me by in general. Like the couple I saw were not even futuristic and more an exaggerated now but I probably didn't need the reinforcement or something or more likely I kept meaning to and forgetting
Edit: I mean I forgot I did definitely know Brooker from that as well for writing it like but I always think of him for the Screenwipe
Slowly but surely
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTAzJOUbAAA2Lh2?format=jpg&name=small)
Had to Google what maid is. That's mental.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 21, 2024, 02:44:15 PMSlowly but surely
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTAzJOUbAAA2Lh2?format=jpg&name=small)
Jesus Christ !!!. They are gone stone mad over there.
I posted about MAID on here a few years ago. A man that lived in Niagara in his 50's with chronic back pain was being forced to move because the owner of his apartment wanted to sell. He couldn't afford to get a new place and rather than end up homeless he applied for MAID, did the doctor assessment and it was granted. Luckily after a local news outlet covered his story a go fund me was started and he didn't end up going through with it.
Another story was a female veteran who lost the use of her legs was waiting years to have a chair lift installed by the Government in her house. When she complained too much she was offered MAID as an alternative.
They have this in Belgium and a couple of other countries won't be long before it is available in Ireland.
Wait, hang on, it looks like we won't be needing MAID after all...
https://x.com/i/status/1815044912103985165
Unless of course we beat the killbots to the finish line:
https://www.firstpost.com/world/20-to-end-it-all-switzerlands-new-suicide-pod-set-for-debut-13794466.html
As far as I know there is assisted suicide legislation currently being drafted by our crowd. I must look into it.
Came across an article some time ago claiming some people who presented with covid vaccine injury in Canada were being offered MAID, Don't know whether its true or not.
It seems inevitable everywhere. There's a lot of support but it's a very slippery slope
Tis a slippery slope no doubt.
To be honest, in principle, I'd be in favour of an individual having the right to die if they so choose, but Its awfully difficult to regulate. I can't imagine the HSE will want anything to do with it and inevitably the private sector health providers will turn it into a cash cow.
Yeah it's like abortion for me in that way in that there are always going to be cases where it's the right thing to do and I know people have to do it and I support bodily autonomy but I worry about it because of slippery slope concerns and having faith in the inherent evil and greed in people
I understand it for people who are terminally ill or have an unbearable, incurable chronic illness, but offering it as a solution to, let's say it straight, incels??? Surely the government could just give them a discount on hoors or something. Or have a hook up site where they can meet wrote off birds. I mean, sterilize them both first, obviously- you would want to be humane about it.
:laugh: :laugh:
Your a gas cunt.
The ride or die scheme.
Ride or die is a motto we could all get behind.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
No doubt you have the genuine cases of someone being terminally ill who would want to go peacefully rather than suffer or even have cases like Mark van Dongen who's ex-girlfriend attacked him with acid leaving him in unbearable pain and unable to do anything himself while he was living in England so his father brought him to Belgium to end his life. I think the vast majority of people would be in favour of it in cases like these.
Then you also have cases like Mortier v. Belgium which involved the euthanasia of a 64-year-old woman with treatment-resistant depression and a personality disorder. Her son only learned of his mother's euthanasia the day after it was performed. Seems to be lots of issues around euthanasia and mental health in Belgium.
Quote from: astfgyl on July 21, 2024, 02:44:15 PMSlowly but surely
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GTAzJOUbAAA2Lh2?format=jpg&name=small)
I just have an image in my head where they stick you in one of those white rooms with this mong for 12 hours like those police coercion videos you see.
"This anger has got to stop John. The post football match rants online, the awful celebrity memes & your far right political ramblings, the list is endless. I've checked your phone and internet usage. Your search history alone is unhinged. It's best you take a one way trip to our MAID facility before you do anything drastic in the real world.
All you need to do is sign these papers."
*slides over death warrant, she gently places her hand on top of Johns, big disturbing smile on her face*
"You're mentally unwell John. We are here to help you and this will protect the people you love. Just sign on the dotted line and we'll get your capillaries scheduled in for our classic pressurised vacuum compress method."
Quick google tells me that image is fake but I still wouldn't be surprised if it was real in the future :laugh:
"John you are living alone in that big house, you know there's plenty of migrant families out there needing a family home. You are too old now, sure you can hardly climb up those stairs. The maid will come for you sooner or later, those capillaries won't burst themselves. We'll even give you a discount. If you don't go this time you'll be charged more and you won't get the express treatment, it will take longer to die, we save the good stuff for the good boys and girls who go when they're told."
And if you continue to refuse to comply we have a hammer. Don't make us take out the hammer.
Quote from: The Butcher on July 22, 2024, 11:23:55 AMQuick google tells me that image is fake but I still wouldn't be surprised if it was real in the future :laugh:
"John you are living alone in that big house, you know there's plenty of migrant families out there needing a family home. You are too old now, sure you can hardly climb up those stairs. The maid will come for you sooner or later, those capillaries won't burst themselves. We'll even give you a discount. If you don't go this time you'll be charged more and you won't get the express treatment, it will take longer to die, we save the good stuff for the good boys and girls who go when they're told."
I should have done my due diligence there on that one woops. I do remember the lad who was approved for being poor though, that was definitely real - if indeed anything is real anymore!
https://x.com/thedorbrothers/status/1828813560878637165
Still obviously fake but what I'm surprised at is the rate of improvement of these AI videos. Photoshop was released in 1990 but took I reckon 20 years before you started having a hard time trying to pick out photos that were real or not.
Saw that earlier and thought the same. We are probably already in the era of not knowing what's real or not and then I wondered if we have ever really known the difference and now I'm getting stoned to escape from the reality of not knowing what's real or not
https://x.com/latestinspace/status/1830353775212777931
Libera te tutemet ex inferis..?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 02, 2024, 02:49:19 PMhttps://x.com/latestinspace/status/1830353775212777931
Libera te tutemet ex inferis..?
The fear. I love stuff like this, often go back and watch videos on the old number stations and the likes, ominous shit.
Do you reckon they were hearing this kind of thing on the Titan submersible last year before their impending doom? That OceanGate CEO "Don't worry about that sound - It's just a weather balloon."
It's a creepy one to be sure. I'd say being stuck in space is fairly paranoid as it is. At least Sam Neill isn't there I suppose
The AI making pictures of you from WiFi signals without a camera is not great.
Thought I'd throw this in here as I've always thought this is a creeping issue for the future.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/antibiotic-resistance-infections-war-ukraine/?utm_campaign=dfn-ebb&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sailthru
So Ukraine is facing antibiotic-resistant infections due to overuse of antibiotics, including in agriculture, leading to an increase in untreated wounds and severe complications like sepsis/amputations.
Procedures become far riskier, tuberculosis, pneumonia, and urinary tract infections, some things you could once call minor infections, could become much harder to manage and more lethal/life-threatening across ALL age groups. Think estimates for deaths for this is about 1 million a year so would be interesting to see how those numbers fare in 10/20 years time. Hopefully this can be countered by new discoveries etc etc and that we never have to see the worse case scenario play out.
Quote from: astfgyl on September 03, 2024, 10:26:21 PMThe AI making pictures of you from WiFi signals without a camera is not great.
For reference ->
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFZKAPb33Dw
But he doesn't mention that you need a 3 antenna router to gather the level of detail. 2 could still give a decent amount of data. But he should have mentioned that the routers used were customised ->
http://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.00250
I'd be more concerned about the PC/laptop/webcam/smart cameras being hacked or Alexa listening in, phone etc ::)
But in saying that...the future is not set :laugh: :abbath:
https://www.binghamton.edu/news/story/3271/can-5g-be-used-as-surveillance-radar-u.s-military-funds-binghamton-research
Edit: Makes me think of future wars that has every target already located with real time tracking, all is needed is to send in the automated drones :o
Quote from: The Butcher on September 17, 2024, 10:11:00 AMThought I'd throw this in here as I've always thought this is a creeping issue for the future.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/antibiotic-resistance-infections-war-ukraine/?utm_campaign=dfn-ebb&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sailthru
So Ukraine is facing antibiotic-resistant infections due to overuse of antibiotics, including in agriculture, leading to an increase in untreated wounds and severe complications like sepsis/amputations.
Procedures become far riskier, tuberculosis, pneumonia, and urinary tract infections, some things you could once call minor infections, could become much harder to manage and more lethal/life-threatening across ALL age groups. Think estimates for deaths for this is about 1 million a year so would be interesting to see how those numbers fare in 10/20 years time. Hopefully this can be countered by new discoveries etc etc and that we never have to see the worse case scenario play out.
I remember this being a big worry back in the late 90s (how I remember is that there was an argument in our flat as someone bought anti-bacterial washing up liquid, which nearly lead to a fist fight - long story) and it used to be a regular feature on the news whenever new superbugs emerged in hospitals, but not seen it mentioned for a long time. Hopefully the AI they are using to create new drugs doesn't decide to keep them secret and wipe us out... :P
Anyone see the hezbollah story about the pagers? I honestly didn't think pagers were even a thing but I won't get one now just in case
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2024, 06:15:35 PMAnyone see the hezbollah story about the pagers? I honestly didn't think pagers were even a thing but I won't get one now just in case
Aye. Mental. They must have got some way to get the pagers to overheat rapidly causing the battery to explode. Over 2000 casualties apparently
Quote from: astfgyl on September 17, 2024, 06:15:35 PMAnyone see the hezbollah story about the pagers? I honestly didn't think pagers were even a thing but I won't get one now just in case
Have to admit it was genius. Mossad cause a Hezbollah's guy mobile phone to blow up, Hezbollah switch to pagers, Mossad cause them to blow up, Hezbollah will look for another way to communicate. How long before we start seeing homing pigeons explode en masse over the skies of Lebanon?
To me it doesn't seem like an overheated battery exploding - usually you get the spark and you'd feel the heat of the battery akin to your phone after hours of gaming - I reckon they intercepted the manufacturing process and added in what they needed ->
Quotethe company's founder Hsu Ching-Kuang, denied it had made the pagers, saying they were manufactured by a company in Europe that had the right to use its brand. "The product was not ours. It was only that it had our brand on it,' he said. "We are a responsible company. This is very embarrassing,"
But you could imagine the horror of malware overheating the battery in everyones iphone/Samsung etc etc :-X
Yeah, I thought the latest was that it was a batch of pagers rigged with explosives (potentially up to five months ago) rather than the phones being hacked and sent into some kind of overheat mode, i.e. a more lo-tech attack essentially not that different to any kind of remote explosives detonation.
Watched a clip of CCTV footage of one of these going off... no-one actually helped the guy as he is lying screaming on the ground, one guy legged it and another just looked at him and then wandered off.
Second wave of explosions occurred today at same time as funeral for victims of the first, killing another child among other victims. Terrorism pure and simple.
Hardly pagers again was it? A bit odd if it was.
Various electronic devices:
https://apnews.com/article/lebanon-israel-exploding-pagers-hezbollah-syria-ce6af3c2e6de0a0dddfae48634278288
Some James bond level shit right there
Scum. Absolute scum.
Jaysus that's mad stuff. How indiscriminate like say a lad was an actual hezbollah fighter he could be picking up his kids or driving his family somewhere when they went off. Of course an Israel supporter's view might be that hezbollah might think twice before next time but i really doubt that would be the case. Israelis surely won't actually admit to this either, given the terrorism implications. I don't know if they've denied it either at the minute I've only seen a small bit about it all.
Is it also looking less like there were explosives in the first set of pagers, or am I running away with it?
Horrific, but this doesn't seen the kind of operation you can do quickly, there has had to be years of planning and getting agents into the manufacturing or distribution channels.
Mayor of Tampa on incoming hurricane: "I can say this without any dramatization whatsoever: If you choose to stay in one of those evacuation areas, you are going to die."
https://x.com/kaitlancollins/status/1843459098148327850
Also saw a meteorologist, a man who looked like he was in his 60s, almost breaking down over describing the magnitude of the hurricane and the factors making such catastrophic events more likely. It was clear that, in his mind, he was forecasting into the future and not seeing anything good. Meanwhile, certain MAGA folk, including MTG, are apparently willing to believe in human-orchestrated weather control but not human-driven climate change.
"Catastrophic 73% decline in the average size of global wildlife populations in just 50 years reveals a 'system in peril'"
https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/catastrophic-73-decline-in-the-average-size-of-global-wildlife-populations-in-just-50-years-reveals-a-system-in-peril
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on October 08, 2024, 10:31:03 AMAlso saw a meteorologist, a man who looked like he was in his 60s, almost breaking down over describing the magnitude of the hurricane and the factors making such catastrophic events more likely
Him.
That's the sort of lad that would be disappointed at his own obvious tendency to be acting like a woman in the face of a bit of danger. Like not sensationalist at all, right? State of it. It's because of stupid cunts like that at the start of covid that we ended up with two years of that steaming pile of shite and yet it seems some of us still haven't learned to just take a step back from the madness and see what is the actual craic with a thing happening in a place that's coincidentally full of hurricanes and had many far worse than this just the same way covid was a killer during flu season but conveniently replaced flu being a killer all over the world at the same time. State of the whole lot with grown men pretending to panic on telly for their money masters so that we can all panic and buy their shit and their bullshit bullshit so we can get poorer and poorer and settle into our role as the serf class. Did I mention the state of that because it really is a pitiful state for a grown man over the weather
Edit: actually I take all that back because a woman wouldn't freak out like the way blokes with a reputation to stake things on do
Him? That very meteorologist who was genuinely scared that the hurricane was going to hit land full force (which at the time was a high probability), you then saw him "very disappointed" that in the end it weakened before it did?
Went back to find the video I was referencing:
https://x.com/BSchuermanWX/status/1843337322038768052
And here's the meteorologist in question's twitter feed. Not seeing anything I'd describe as disappointment:
https://x.com/JohnMoralesTV
Soft cunt crying about the weather lol
Well which is it? Was he soft then and now relieved? Or intentionally dramatizing then and now cynically "very disappointed"?
Dramatising and now disappointed. The narrative must be upheld at all costs
I can see that!
I haven't seen it, but a new series 'Rising Tides' has premiered on the RTE Player:
https://www.rte.ie/player/series/rising-tides--ireland-s-future-in-a-warmer-world/10002411-00-0000?epguid=IP10002407-01-0001
Recent radio spot with the presenter, incl. interview (at 9m30) with the researchers/authors of the paper below:
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22432971/
"Warning of a forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation"
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-39810-w
Assessments by the IPCC based on climate models suggest a full collapse in the 21st century is unlikely while this report gives a 95% confidence interval ranging from 2025 to 2095. The range is wide because they don't have enough data - Direct measurements of the AMOC have only been available since 2004. They extend these measurements out with other historical climate proxies but even that comes with margins of error! Important to point out the uncertainties.
People will jump on co2 to blame everything but we've built out our towns and expanded cities, increased farmland, terraformed whole landscapes across the world and that all has an impact on drainage, rainfall generated, albedo and temperature. The elephant in the room is the movement of populations from lower carbon emitting countries to the west. Our native populations are decreasing but we have massive migration across the western world preventing it from dropping. Then there is the 3rd world dilemma, bit like Brazil and the rainforest. They'll use Fossil fuels to fight poverty because they've got bigger day to day problems, do we penalise them for that when Europe already cleared its forests, Brazil now doing the same. Maybe if it was the other way around the forests of Europe would have been called the lungs of the world instead of the Amazon rainforest.
Not only are there several elephants in the room (in the case of Ireland, another one would be the fact that ~90% of our livestock and dairy agriculture--incidentally the majority cause of the rather pathetic amount of wild forest we have ourselves--is destined for export), but some of those elephants, such as the massive migration you point to, are standing on the backs of turtles in the room that are even bigger and have been there even longer (e.g. "imperialist" resource exploitation, consequent funneling of wealth away from benefits to native populations, related armed conflicts, etc., etc.).
A complete rethink and total overhaul of our global economic system seems absolutely necessary to me, but that doesn't seem a priority, and its very possibility is being fought against from both sides (neolib and conservative).
As for the AMOC thing, you're absolutely right it's important to point out the uncertainties. The boul beor Claire actually does so at a couple of key points :) I presume the 95% confidence interval is a "given X, Y, Z" assumptions they fed into the model along with the data, and those assumptions will have their own degrees of uncertainty. But anyway, if anyone's interested, yoke on RTE Player about AMOC.
This could have gone in any number of threads, and in a way there's an air of inevitability to it all but yeah...
First-of-its-kind social media influencer degree launched in Carlow
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/first-kind-social-media-influencer-33948760#ICID=Android_IrishMirrorNewsApp_AppShare
I've tried to distance myself from social media as much as possible but I guess I'm a different generation and now this is being seen as a legitimate career choice.
I bet it's one of the many failed social media influencers that will run the course.
Don't get me wrong, I pissed about in college years ago doing an arts degree that was fuck all use to me in the end, but at least there was some academic merit to it. Just looking at that "course" there, one of the modules is "celebrity studies"...Jesus wept!!
Should be modules on 'AI Avatars' / 'Bot Farms' / 'Dead Internet Theory' and then they will slowly realise this career is doomed ::)
I have a 9 year old daughter who's absolutely obsessed with YouTube. I kind of ignored it initially as harmless enough, but she was playing some video in the car the other day and I overheard it. Not word for word but in that annoying Yank AI voice, "like and subscribe otherwise your parents won't love you anymore". It's absolute detritus. I had a good talk with her and she seems savvy enough to know it was nonsense, but at the same time I can see how, in time, something social media related could appeal as a legitimate career path. I hope the bubble has burst by then.
Quote from: John Kimble on October 23, 2024, 07:54:22 PMI have a 9 year old daughter who's absolutely obsessed with YouTube. I kind of ignored it initially as harmless enough, but she was playing some video in the car the other day and I overheard it. Not word for word but in that annoying Yank AI voice, "like and subscribe otherwise your parents won't love you anymore". It's absolute detritus. I had a good talk with her and she seems savvy enough to know it was nonsense, but at the same time I can see how, in time, something social media related could appeal as a legitimate career path. I hope the bubble has burst by then.
Exact same conversation had with the 9 year olds in my house. It's awful. That and fuckin roblox is Satan as well
A friend of mine told me that his brother couldn't get to work on time today, because he couldn't charge his car last night due to his wifi being down.
Would be even more hilarious if he worked from home.
Quote from: Giggles on October 24, 2024, 08:04:05 AMA friend of mine told me that his brother couldn't get to work on time today, because he couldn't charge his car last night due to his wifi being down.
Wtaf lol
"Events of this type, which used to occur many decades apart, are now becoming more frequent and their destructive capacity is greater," said Ernesto Rodriguez Camino, senior state meteorologist and a member of the Spanish Meteorological Association.
64 dead in Valencia, many still missing. The images are fairly apocalyptic. Whatever one may believe or not believe the cause is, the increased frequency is going to impose some serious civil rethinking.
Honest to God I never knew spain had floods fairly regularly at all, or tornadoes for that matter but apparently they're a thing there all along. As to the frequency I dunno I didn't really read into it. Looks fairly fucking strong at the minute anyway and rip to the victims.
Do they mitigate for it at all, infrastructure-wise?
I'm in the south of Spain. This kind of weather is expected at this time of year, not strictly an indication of climate issues. There have been bad storms here before, even here in the south, including a lot of tragedy associated. What happened earlier this week was shocking and tragic however and mostly confined to north, midlands and north east where rivers can swell or wherever the land slopes. Damage to *mostly old infrastructure (houses/bridges) in rural areas from what I have seen on national news. There is still more being reported, even urban areas, the full details havent emerged. Horrifying.
200+ dead in the region, around 1,500 still unaccounted for.
QuotePremier Carlos Mazón, of the right-wing Partido Popular, also waited until 8:30 p.m. to formally request the assistance of the national Military Emergency Unit and resisted calling a state of emergency as it would have meant handing over authority to the central government in Madrid, headed by Pedro Sánchez's broad-left coalition. He also tweeted at noon Tuesday that the worst of the storm would have passed by 6 p.m.
In part, this reflected his administration's broader laissez faire approach to climate change, with his coalition government agreement with the far-right Vox in 2023 including the elimination of the recently set up Valencian Emergency Response Unit. As journalist Antonio Maestre wrote on Wednesday, that one of Mazón's first executive actions was to abolish that unit "conveys the message that nothing is wrong, that the climate crisis will not affect us and that there is no need to worry about what that paradigm shift entails for the lives of thousands of people."
Vox pulled out of Mazón's administration this summer over the existential threat that unaccompanied migrant children supposedly pose to law and order in Spain. Yet in the days leading up to the floods, the online alt-right heaped scorn on the meteorological office's repeated warnings of expected extreme rainfall.
https://jacobin.com/2024/10/spain-disaster-floods-climate-denialism
(Parental warning: Explicit far-left perspectives!)
Fucking hell lad, does everything have to boil down to US style identity politics with you?
We have separate topics for a reason
If you stopped to think a second I believe you'd have copped I was jokingly getting ahead of the curve of any mook who might try to side-step dealing with concrete well-sourced arguments with a dismissive wave of the hand stating that it's an article from Jacobin. Y'know, same strategy used when it was claimed against me that Channel 4 can't be trusted, or that anything merely aired on Al Jazeera (even if it wasn't made by Al Jazeera) must also be summarily dismissed rather than factually confronted: the usual kind of shite we're used to on here from folk who will nevertheless then in all earnestness post and defend outrageous statements from Fox or SS wannabes or simply sources unrevealed.
QuoteThe campaign group Global Witness posed undercover as a fake oil and gas group asking for deals to be facilitated in exchange for sponsoring [Cop29].
In the calls, Elnur Soltanov, Azerbaijan's deputy energy minister and chief executive of Cop29, agreed to this and spoke of a future that includes fossil fuels "perhaps for ever". Cop officials also introduced the fake investor to a senior executive at the national oil and gas company Socar to discuss investment opportunities.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/nov/08/cop29-ceo-filmed-agreeing-to-facilitate-fossil-fuel-deals-at-climate-summit
But there should be fossil fuels for the things that they are best at.
And nuclear as well, lots of that.
And wind turbines, plenty of those too.
And solar, lots of that sunshine left in the world.
And hydro, the eels can have separate channels dug for them if we really care enough.
People are stupid to throw all their eggs in the one basket.
If everything went full Mad Max tomorrow, would you rather have a diesel or an electric car?
Going all in on any single ideology is madness
Especially when that ideology is capitalism! :)
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on November 09, 2024, 12:07:11 AMEspecially when that ideology is capitalism! :)
I agree!!! And especially everything else as well!!!
So Biden just gave Ukraine carte blanche to fire long range missiles into Russia. Zelensky very happy with new toys to play with. If you have a bucketlist of things to do/achieve then start making that list now.
Yup. A bold move. Brave or foolhardy, we might not live to find out the answer :laugh:
Just when we thought he was taking the election results a bit too well...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c33nv8x64mlo
He is anyway
Wow. That is horrific.
Fucking hell. What a sadistic cunt.
Tis as bad as anything I've read really outside of the people doing sick shit to human kids
All of the trees around chernobyl are growing well these days. Looking at a thing about Pripyat and vegetation is taking over the town as would be expected under normal conditions or in this case, abnormal conditions but still I'd have expected the trees to be dead a bit more
We have had this thread going for ages and hardly a mention of ai drones.
What would you do if ai drones came for you and your family tomorrow with the intention of getting rid of you, now that you've become a useless eater after your job became obsolete?
Nothing is what you'd do other than being gotten rid of.
There's no winning and we were fucked long before this thread got going.
Makes me feel small thinking about it. All we have left is hope because we'd wouldn't win like
Quote from: astfgyl on November 26, 2024, 01:00:44 AMWe have had this thread going for ages and hardly a mention of ai drones.
What would you do if ai drones came for you and your family tomorrow with the intention of getting rid of you, now that you've become a useless eater after your job became obsolete?
Nothing is what you'd do other than being gotten rid of.
There's no winning and we were fucked long before this thread got going.
Makes me feel small thinking about it. All we have left is hope because we'd wouldn't win like
Find John Connor
Quote from: astfgyl on November 26, 2024, 01:00:44 AMWhat would you do if ai drones came for you and your family tomorrow with the intention of getting rid of you, now that you've become a useless eater after your job became obsolete?
Dunno, if it was flying low enough I'd probably just swipe it with a broom.
Always thought they would eventually use drones for checking roads for speeding and check for people dumping rubbish at common black spots.
https://x.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1859471246737445162?t=NtIt2XV__nEf9q1surS5yw&s=19
Apparently not real time BUT I can totally see this being possible in real time by end of this decade.
Imagine the dystopian police surveillance state future you could have with this kind of tech.
Walking down the street and arrested for never paying TV license 😅
https://www.artisan.co/blog/stop-hiring-humans
I'm sure this type of thing won't spawn a few more Luigi Mangiones in the future ???
Quote from: The Butcher on November 26, 2024, 12:16:08 PMAlways thought they would eventually use drones for checking roads for speeding and check for people dumping rubbish at common black spots.
https://x.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1859471246737445162?t=NtIt2XV__nEf9q1surS5yw&s=19
Apparently not real time BUT I can totally see this being possible in real time by end of this decade.
Imagine the dystopian police surveillance state future you could have with this kind of tech.
Walking down the street and arrested for never paying TV license 😅
very Philip K Dick like Minority Report ha ha
Quote from: Necro Red on January 09, 2025, 10:14:51 AMvery Philip K Dick like Minority Report ha ha
Speaking of -> https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.19814v1
The paper above shows that AI can PREDICT brain activity 5 seconds into the future with near-perfect accuracy using just 21 seconds of fMRI data - insane! :-X ???
Once everyone gets their mandatory government chip implanted you'll be automatically 'deactivated' before you even realise you were about to commit a future crime/offend someone :laugh:
The only thing AI is being seriously used for at the moment is by students to think for them and write their papers, or film studios plotting to replace actors entirely. The rest for now, I suppose is governed by law?.
I'd argue that's not true at all and the pace of improvement in the field is staggering. Sure, some of it seems like hype and implementation is slower but make no mistake, America with it's corporate capitalism slant will push on with this now to the detriment (IMO) of society as a whole. Mainly due to the speed/scale of it by 2030 onwards we're going to be looking at totally different world.
Take for example Wendys (fast food chain that's actually coming here soon), remember this improves as time goes on - this is the worst it will be ->
QuoteWendy's is actively integrating artificial intelligence (AI) into its drive-thru operations through a platform called Wendy's FreshAI, developed in partnership with Google Cloud. This generative AI system is designed to enhance the ordering process by improving speed, accuracy, and consistency. It can understand casual conversation, handle complex menu customizations, and respond to customer inquiries in real-time.
The implementation of Wendy's FreshAI has led to notable improvements. For instance, a test site in Columbus, Ohio, reported service times 22 seconds faster than the local market average. The AI system achieved an accuracy rate of nearly 99%, defined as orders initiated by the AI and submitted to the point-of-sale system, even if human intervention was required for corrections. Without human assistance, the AI successfully handled 86% of orders, a figure expected to improve over time.
There's about 3.6 million people in the fast food industry in the US. If you can knock off 4-8 people per drive-thru that are involved in that process taking orders / cash/card / handing out food etc - then all the other chains will follow.
Nature just published a survey of 5000 researchers about their current and projected uses and views of generative AI yesterday actually:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00343-5
As much as AI being able to predict fMRI scans doesn't alarm me, this does:
QuoteThe human brain may contain up to a spoon's worth of tiny plastic shards...according to new findings published Monday in the journal Nature Medicine.
...
Based on their analysis, the amount of microplastics in the human brain appears to be increasing over time: Concentrations rose by roughly 50 percent between 2016 and 2024.
The researchers also found much higher levels of microplastics in brain tissue than in liver and kidney tissue. And microplastic concentrations were also higher in the brains of deceased patients who had been diagnosed with dementia compared to the brains of deceased individuals without dementia.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-human-brain-may-contain-as-much-as-a-spoons-worth-of-microplastics-new-research-suggests-180985995/
Original research article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-024-03453-1
Ah don't sweat that - Scientists will use AI to help identify bacteria/enzymes capable of breaking it down.
The plastic eating bacteria will be able to pass the blood-brain barrier and eat the microplastics...then eventually eat our brains and turn us all to mush :abbath:
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on February 05, 2025, 07:09:14 PMAs much as AI being able to predict fMRI scans doesn't alarm me, this does:
QuoteThe human brain may contain up to a spoon's worth of tiny plastic shards...according to new findings published Monday in the journal Nature Medicine.
...
Based on their analysis, the amount of microplastics in the human brain appears to be increasing over time: Concentrations rose by roughly 50 percent between 2016 and 2024.
The researchers also found much higher levels of microplastics in brain tissue than in liver and kidney tissue. And microplastic concentrations were also higher in the brains of deceased patients who had been diagnosed with dementia compared to the brains of deceased individuals without dementia.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-human-brain-may-contain-as-much-as-a-spoons-worth-of-microplastics-new-research-suggests-180985995/
Original research article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-024-03453-1
I know people with a just spoons worth of brain
Quote from: The Butcher on February 05, 2025, 09:27:42 AMI'd argue that's not true at all and the pace of improvement in the field is staggering. Sure, some of it seems like hype and implementation is slower but make no mistake, America with it's corporate capitalism slant will push on with this now to the detriment (IMO) of society as a whole. Mainly due to the speed/scale of it by 2030 onwards we're going to be looking at totally different world.
Take for example Wendys (fast food chain that's actually coming here soon), remember this improves as time goes on - this is the worst it will be ->
QuoteWendy's is actively integrating artificial intelligence (AI) into its drive-thru operations through a platform called Wendy's FreshAI, developed in partnership with Google Cloud. This generative AI system is designed to enhance the ordering process by improving speed, accuracy, and consistency. It can understand casual conversation, handle complex menu customizations, and respond to customer inquiries in real-time.
The implementation of Wendy's FreshAI has led to notable improvements. For instance, a test site in Columbus, Ohio, reported service times 22 seconds faster than the local market average. The AI system achieved an accuracy rate of nearly 99%, defined as orders initiated by the AI and submitted to the point-of-sale system, even if human intervention was required for corrections. Without human assistance, the AI successfully handled 86% of orders, a figure expected to improve over time.
There's about 3.6 million people in the fast food industry in the US. If you can knock off 4-8 people per drive-thru that are involved in that process taking orders / cash/card / handing out food etc - then all the other chains will follow.
Pity Wendy's couldn't get the AI to operate potato peelers, as good as their burgers are, their fries have been horrible ever since they went for the "natural" gimmick.
Wouldn't be mad keen on the oul casing around the chernobyl reactor getting blown off. Seems like an odd move on the Russians part the same day that there's mention of the US and Russians on the phone about peace deals.
Giving me Nordstream vibes due to the utter silliness of it all
Massive eastward movement of American aerial refuelling tankers last night.
Probably grand sure.
Is America (or Trump at least) completely under the thumb of Israel? Is the tail wagging the dog here?
AIPAC is the second most influential lobby group in the US, so it's a shit-load of sway rather than "being under the thumb." More of a mutually "beneficial" arrangement and distaste for brown and black people, especially those who have the gall not to be Christian or Jewish. Biden though, for example, was an absolute full-on Zionist, during his whole career. There's a few great documentaries out there about the Israel lobbies in both the US and UK.
Israel and all that US stuff aside - Does anyone think it's a good idea that Iran gets a nuke? Not a fan of nuclear proliferation myself :laugh: Enriching uranium is not technically hard really - just requires lots of power. If Iran got a nuke, I could see many other countries looking at that option.
I get the feeling time will run out for Israel in the long long run.
https://t.me/MilitaryStrategist/4505
??? I know what you're thinking.
Chemtrails!
It seems the Israelis are targetting police and keepers of order, they're fully into the idea of facilitating a regime change. I believe the new Iraq is not unfriendly with Iran, so this may escalate quickly. On the plus side, if such a thing exists even barely, it cuts off a supply of arms to Putin.
Looking like the absolute record temperature for Bordeaux (41.2°) may be beaten tomorrow, over three weeks earlier in the year than last time. Across the country, 84 "départements" (out of 96) are on high heatwave alert, also a record in itself. Already been peaking at 40° here since Saturday.
I don't know how you stick it, I struggle in Irish 'heatwaves' when they happen, and that's just high 20s.
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 30, 2025, 02:55:36 PMLooking like the absolute record temperature for Bordeaux (41.2°) may be beaten tomorrow, over three weeks earlier in the year than last time. Across the country, 84 "départements" (out of 96) are on high heatwave alert, also a record in itself. Already been peaking at 40° here since Saturday.
Similar thing happening here in the last few years. Temps in the summer peaking around 40, whereas in the past it was closer to 30. We had a heatwave of a full week of 40 where it didn't even get below 20 overnight (beneath that temp is what the body needs to fully recover overnight). It was the longest week of my life. I was coming into work early all week because there's AC there, and while at home I could barely move from the couch the entire week. Suffocating.
Same as Carnage, a heatwave here kills me especially with trying to sleep during the day for working nights so I can't fathom how bad those temperatures must be.
Are we all fucked? Maybe? It seems in recent tests AI has learned to defend itself. Even at the expense of human life.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/far-will-ai-go-defend-survival-rcna209609 (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/far-will-ai-go-defend-survival-rcna209609)
Apparently there was another hypothetical scenario not mentioned in that report where, in an overheating server room, an AI blocked a worker's distress call outward in order to avoid itself being deactivated.
Quote from: Mooncat on June 30, 2025, 09:24:10 PMAre we all fucked? Maybe? It seems in recent tests AI has learned to defend itself. Even at the expense of human life.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/far-will-ai-go-defend-survival-rcna209609 (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/far-will-ai-go-defend-survival-rcna209609)
Apparently there was another hypothetical scenario not mentioned in that report where, in an overheating server room, an AI blocked a worker's distress call outward in order to avoid itself being deactivated.
Like the terminator laid it all out. If the current versions are starting to ignore protocol and seek to survive wtf are higher powered models gonna do.
Quote from: Mooncat on June 30, 2025, 04:19:28 PMSimilar thing happening here in the last few years. Temps in the summer peaking around 40, whereas in the past it was closer to 30. We had a heatwave of a full week of 40 where it didn't even get below 20 overnight (beneath that temp is what the body needs to fully recover overnight). It was the longest week of my life. I was coming into work early all week because there's AC there, and while at home I could barely move from the couch the entire week. Suffocating.
Yeah, day three with no drop below 20° now: next one scheduled for Thursday around midnight when a storm will hopefully break it. Windows open all night and into the early morning, but by half eight you need all the shutters down until beginning of dusk to keep a manageable temperature.
Where is it you are again?
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on June 30, 2025, 10:58:30 PMQuote from: Mooncat on June 30, 2025, 04:19:28 PMSimilar thing happening here in the last few years. Temps in the summer peaking around 40, whereas in the past it was closer to 30. We had a heatwave of a full week of 40 where it didn't even get below 20 overnight (beneath that temp is what the body needs to fully recover overnight). It was the longest week of my life. I was coming into work early all week because there's AC there, and while at home I could barely move from the couch the entire week. Suffocating.
Yeah, day three with no drop below 20° now: next one scheduled for Thursday around midnight when a storm will hopefully break it. Windows open all night and into the early morning, but by half eight you need all the shutters down until beginning of dusk to keep a manageable temperature.
Where is it you are again?
Edmonton in Alberta, Canada. So these days it's 5 months of winter, several weeks of unbearable heatwave plus hot summers in general, plus usually a month or two of all encompassing wildfire smoke.
Having to close the blinds for most of the day is depressing as fuck, I do that too.
Ah ok. We had friends over this weekend who live in Canada now, Montréal, and when they were showing me on the map where they have a chalet they rent out I was reminded how absolutely huge the country is. You're probably almost as far from Montréal as we are :laugh:
I use public toilets and I piss on the seat
And I go around in summer, saying "how about this heat"
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Sorry lads, it's never a good time for Dennis Leary
The Veritasium youtube channel has a couple of interesting recent vids out, one on Monsanto, and this one about PFAS. Both underscore the need for reinforced, rather than deregulated, environmental protection agencies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY
https://walletmor.com/
Estimated 50-100k globally already have these chips embedded in their skin. Some recent studies suggest 51% of people would consider it...which seems incredibly high. Can't use an MRI if you have one :-X
Tristan Harris is a top man, listened to an interview with him 10 years ago which was a total eye-opener. This is well worth 18 minutes of your time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=675d_6WGPbo
(https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:kjixfa7wudorsmbyyfios3kp/bafkreif3zn2yi23jbr5u2fahcijwyvgfpatf2rqbmk2tt64mblvevmrm6i@jpeg)
But more importantly, is he overweight?
:laugh: :laugh:
https://xkcd.com/1732/
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_temperature_timeline_2x.png)
It's showing in Tasmania. It's the middle of summer...
Quote from: Eoin McLove on December 25, 2025, 10:38:13 AMIt's showing in Tasmania. It's the middle of summer...
Lucky bastards, it's rooted everywhere else. It was that hot today the cheese on the cheese board was melting into goo (still delicious..)
Trump attacks Venezuela...
And kidnapped their president.
Is he after their oil reserves or try trying to distract from the Epstein files.
I guess that FIFA Peace Prize meant nothing 😥😥😥
Usually they're more clandestine about regime change. Seems you can just kidnap foreign leaders willy nilly.
Imagine aul Catherine Connolly making the tea in the kitchen at Aras an Uachtarain and seen a few choppers full of marines landing on the lawn.
:laugh:
Will ye not have a cup lads?
Quote from: Pat Twisted Wrath on January 04, 2026, 08:19:37 PMUsually they're more clandestine about regime change. Seems you can just kidnap foreign leaders willy nilly.
Brits cut them off from their South American Intel a few weeks back too as they didn't to get done for collusion.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/darren-aronofsky-revolutionary-war-ai-series-1236488180/
Am I deluded to think that AI on a large scale (i.e. full length films, documentaries, etc) is doomed to fail. I get the curiosity of "I wonder what XYZ would look like" but surely people would get fucking tired of that uncanny valley shit pretty quickly and look for something with an actual soul?
Some suits will get filthy fucking rich then the bubble bursts.
I dunno... maybe we are all fucked?
Search for what, though? How will you find anything at all once this shit fully gets up to speed. Unlimited shite made to order, hosted by platforms whose finanical interest is in serving you shit they don't have to pay out for (Spotify are already ahead of the game here) ;)
QuoteDeezer, the global music experiences platform, is receiving over 30,000 fully AI-generated tracks every day
That's almost 30% of the songs they receive now, up from 10% at the start of the year.
Source -> https://newsroom-deezer.com/2025/09/28-fully-ai-generated-music/
It's not sustainable to host so much ever growing amounts of data. Sooner or later, the non-profitable stuff is going to be cut - i.e. anything not mainstream or host generated AI.
Don't sell your fucken CDs just yet :laugh:
https://youtube.com/shorts/t0SnFuJc6lc?si=UJENL02jsrFtMOdq
No lies detected
Maybe more accurately "not even false"
Death to "false'" :abbath:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HCAo00RWcAA6Cpy?format=jpg&name=large)
Full article
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2516885-ais-cant-stop-recommending-nuclear-strikes-in-war-game-simulations/
To be fair, it might be the only way to stop AI music
Just feed the movie War Games to these computers and they will learn the error of their ways :laugh:
That that story and this one broke at the same time reveals the real danger: Armageddon believers like Hegseth being close to "the button"
QuoteUS Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth vowed to remove Anthropic from his agency's supply chain if the company declined to allow its artificial intelligence (AI) technology to be used across military applications.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjrq1vwe73po
This post could have gone into the random thoughts thread but felt more appropriate to be in here. Bare with my strings of thought :laugh:
Iran war continues for a month - energy crisis builds - Europe past month have been taking Russian shadow oil fleet tankers, same with India with Iranian ones, America with Venezuelan ones.
Hard to see how the war ends - does Trump just say under pressure in 1-2 weeks time "That's it, we won." Doesn't Iran, with whatever is left of lower levels of leaders who are more than likely extremists just take a firm stance like "ok, we need a nuke asap." Trump will be told this is the likely path that the remaining Iranian gov will speedrun to having a nuke so Trump will be told that they should be encouraging the Iranian people to strike and takeover....but that prolongs the whole war meaning oil and world recession/depression, a good chance that it's going to be a whole lot worse than the 1970s. Inflation has potential to be massive - economies could literally stop - I see Thailand and somewhere are already making WFH mandatory to try lessen fuel demand. Some places already dry.
Iran in recent days are starting to target desalination plants - Bahrain apparently depend on desalination plants for 85% of their water. UAE/Kuwait it's 90%. If Iran smash enough of these plants - 10s of millions with no water - you are talking mass migration influx into Europe akin to 2015. Also thinking globalisation will eventually fail by around 2040-2050 timeframe (due to demographics across the world) - this could help speed that process up.
Anyway...pretty sure we are all fucked...or am I just a complete rambling fool? :abbath:
Just regarding the timeline of things, reports state that the US first struck a desalination plant in Iran, a day before the latter struck one in Bahrain. Dangerous game all round.
An interesting insight on matters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl-sSsZnSP8
Thanks again Israel and USA, that's great, we all need this, great work freeing Iran
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/iran-us-israel-war-news-2026
Quote from: The Butcher on March 13, 2026, 01:00:46 AMThis post could have gone into the random thoughts thread but felt more appropriate to be in here. Bare with my strings of thought :laugh:
Iran war continues for a month - energy crisis builds - Europe past month have been taking Russian shadow oil fleet tankers, same with India with Iranian ones, America with Venezuelan ones.
Hard to see how the war ends - does Trump just say under pressure in 1-2 weeks time "That's it, we won." Doesn't Iran, with whatever is left of lower levels of leaders who are more than likely extremists just take a firm stance like "ok, we need a nuke asap." Trump will be told this is the likely path that the remaining Iranian gov will speedrun to having a nuke so Trump will be told that they should be encouraging the Iranian people to strike and takeover....but that prolongs the whole war meaning oil and world recession/depression, a good chance that it's going to be a whole lot worse than the 1970s. Inflation has potential to be massive - economies could literally stop - I see Thailand and somewhere are already making WFH mandatory to try lessen fuel demand. Some places already dry.
Iran in recent days are starting to target desalination plants - Bahrain apparently depend on desalination plants for 85% of their water. UAE/Kuwait it's 90%. If Iran smash enough of these plants - 10s of millions with no water - you are talking mass migration influx into Europe akin to 2015. Also thinking globalisation will eventually fail by around 2040-2050 timeframe (due to demographics across the world) - this could help speed that process up.
Anyway...pretty sure we are all fucked...or am I just a complete rambling fool? :abbath:
Just to add to this - Iran can still broadcast where they will hit in advance and still hit it - and their attacks are increasing in the past 2 days compared to the low ebb of last week - most likely due to the main leadership being smashed up / lack of orders + command & control etc
For the US to control the straits they would need a lot of firepower + anti drone / counter measures - I'm just not sure that's there. Trump would take a lot of heat if one of their main ships got hit. Troops on the ground to me seem like a bad bad idea - again considering the drone modern warfare - see Ukraine/Russian war.
Concerned about future food prices but at least compared to the 70s the supply lines have more redundancy in them but fertiliser shortages will impact food prices. Seems like a turning point that hasnt yet been decided. At any point Iran could collapse, depends how deep rooted Islamic is and the leadership left but at the moment - doesn't seem likely. Afghanistan was 10 weeks and they were weak in comparison to the Iranians - all points to a prolonged war to me. Serious economic hit on the cards...jobs are going to get dodgy. This could turn ugly fast, prepare properly for that scenario, that's all I'll say.
For the proper geeks among ye, a computational neuroscientist mate has been digging into the Claude code leak:
https://neuromatch.social/@jonny/116325668039992121
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on April 02, 2026, 10:11:11 AMFor the proper geeks among ye, a computational neuroscientist mate has been digging into the Claude code leak:
https://neuromatch.social/@jonny/116325668039992121
Just goes to show what a house of cards everything is built on :laugh:
For further tech geekery, there's been some weird stuff happening of late. The story about human braincells in a petri dish being trained to play Doom has been around for a bit now, but they've also managed to upload a fly into a computer. The fly is in the matrix...
Here's an article that mentions both https://www.theguardian.com/games/2026/mar/16/petri-dish-brain-cells-playing-doom-cortical-labs (https://www.theguardian.com/games/2026/mar/16/petri-dish-brain-cells-playing-doom-cortical-labs)
I see the hauliers, farmers and construction contractors are planning a big protest for Tuesday due to the Governments refusal to help people during this fuel crises yet they are still giving tax payers money away to other countries.
Let them protest at the US and Israeli embassies.
Or outside the Irish offices of these pricks:
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/ceraweek-big-oil-reap-billions-iran-war-windfall-after-month-soaring-energy-2026-03-26/
Loads of petrol stations have run dry around me. Crazy stuff.
Is that not just due to protestors blocking depots though? I'd heard there was no shortage on a national level.
Quote from: Emphyrio on April 09, 2026, 04:05:54 PMLoads of petrol stations have run dry around me. Crazy stuff.
Aye same here, not too worried about the long run thou as its blockades rather than a genuine shortage I believe. Just spent 20 mins queung at the only one with fuel left, the panic buying was gas. Watched one aul wan spill fuel down the side of her car for a good minute before realising it was full...didnt even know that was possible tbh
Ya, it's the blockade rather than actual shortage but it's almost eerie going to a petrol station and the pumps are all closed off. A weird pre-dystopia feeling.
Ah yeah a bit bizzare alright. The first time I saw it happen was the day before the excise cut kicked in a few weeks ago, the stations around me held off on restocking and were all empty ;D
Driving through dublin yesterday was quite an experience, I left early and knew what I was getting myself in for so I wasn't annoyed but the general sense of road rage in the air was something else :laugh: kinda enjoyed the chaos of it all tbh
You cannot tax break your way out of 20% of the world's supply being taken offline, it's going to cost more, simple as that.
I don't see what extra is being achieved by forcing a fuel panic (it's tailed back 500m from the petrol station up the road from my gaff all evening) that couldn't have been achieved by a work stoppage - they are after all as they claim, bringing food and other essentials to the table. Is that not enough leverage? Why the fuck ensure no one else has fuel? Which everyone else is paying more for also?
Of course it will need government intervention to keep delivery infrastructure alive and I do respect them for standing up for their livelihood and trying to get the government to the table from their break during an obvious crisis period, but that's where it ends because I don't see any proper thought on display here that acknowledges the reality that it's just a massive US-Israeli fuckup that has changed material conditions. They can't work for free, they're going to have to charge more, and it's going to affect every single thing.
There's nothing we can do about that simple fact with out current setup of chasing the biggest margins through cheapest and quickest energy source. There is no magic button to press here and I'm not seeing anyone at all even attempt to drive that point home. That's why I don't really support the protests, because it's fundamentally fucking thick. The oil shock hasn't even hit properly yet either, but again, I don't see anyone discussing that seriously, just more hoping for business as usual.
Quote from: Yung Led Zeppelin on April 09, 2026, 10:03:22 PMThere is no magic button to press here and I'm not seeing anyone at all even attempt to drive that point home. That's why I don't really support the protests, because it's fundamentally fucking thick.
I'd be in agreement myself that its fairly thick aye. Very little is being achieved that couldn't be accomplished via more suitable means imo.
I've seen a few brave souls online attempting to engage with the enlightened massess who somehow connect fuel prices to things like Ukrainian aid or migrants,to very poor effect. Wouldnt have the time, energy or patience to engage with it myself.
Rather than getting worked up, or exhausting myself mentally, im just enjoying the spectacle of it all at this stage. Lifes tiring enough while I study without adding attempting to parse apart the finer points of global fuel supply chains :laugh:
In fact, I have so little energy for it I don't know why I replied and have edited half my comment out accordingly :laugh:
Quote from: The Butcher on March 18, 2026, 09:47:37 PMQuote from: The Butcher on March 13, 2026, 01:00:46 AMThis post could have gone into the random thoughts thread but felt more appropriate to be in here. Bare with my strings of thought :laugh:
Iran war continues for a month - energy crisis builds - Europe past month have been taking Russian shadow oil fleet tankers, same with India with Iranian ones, America with Venezuelan ones.
Hard to see how the war ends - does Trump just say under pressure in 1-2 weeks time "That's it, we won." Doesn't Iran, with whatever is left of lower levels of leaders who are more than likely extremists just take a firm stance like "ok, we need a nuke asap." Trump will be told this is the likely path that the remaining Iranian gov will speedrun to having a nuke so Trump will be told that they should be encouraging the Iranian people to strike and takeover....but that prolongs the whole war meaning oil and world recession/depression, a good chance that it's going to be a whole lot worse than the 1970s. Inflation has potential to be massive - economies could literally stop - I see Thailand and somewhere are already making WFH mandatory to try lessen fuel demand. Some places already dry.
Iran in recent days are starting to target desalination plants - Bahrain apparently depend on desalination plants for 85% of their water. UAE/Kuwait it's 90%. If Iran smash enough of these plants - 10s of millions with no water - you are talking mass migration influx into Europe akin to 2015. Also thinking globalisation will eventually fail by around 2040-2050 timeframe (due to demographics across the world) - this could help speed that process up.
Anyway...pretty sure we are all fucked...or am I just a complete rambling fool? :abbath:
Just to add to this - Iran can still broadcast where they will hit in advance and still hit it - and their attacks are increasing in the past 2 days compared to the low ebb of last week - most likely due to the main leadership being smashed up / lack of orders + command & control etc
For the US to control the straits they would need a lot of firepower + anti drone / counter measures - I'm just not sure that's there. Trump would take a lot of heat if one of their main ships got hit. Troops on the ground to me seem like a bad bad idea - again considering the drone modern warfare - see Ukraine/Russian war.
Concerned about future food prices but at least compared to the 70s the supply lines have more redundancy in them but fertiliser shortages will impact food prices. Seems like a turning point that hasnt yet been decided. At any point Iran could collapse, depends how deep rooted Islamic is and the leadership left but at the moment - doesn't seem likely. Afghanistan was 10 weeks and they were weak in comparison to the Iranians - all points to a prolonged war to me. Serious economic hit on the cards...jobs are going to get dodgy. This could turn ugly fast, prepare properly for that scenario, that's all I'll say.
Nearly a month later and we have a sort of "ceasefire" - we shall see how actual negotiations go but the red lines Iran and the US/Israel have - I don't see how they will climb down from them. I wouldn't be surprised with Israel bombing Lebanon is the excuse Trump wants in order for Iran to violate the ceasefire again due to Israel/Lebanon and then go in when they feel they have enough man/firepower in the region. Going by the amount of stuff going towards the region I would say we are more likely heading back to full scale war than achieving any sort of deal/plan worth noting. Of course anything can happen in the meantime. Prolonged war into the summer means potential famine in some countries amongst other things. Hopefully not.
Our government should have talked to the protestors before they decided to block everything. They could have said "We'll organise a meeting with ye provided you back away from the ports etc" - could have said they are finalising a plan for the whole country. Instead they escalated with army deployment and now public order units from the Gardai. It's bad optics and means they have no other lever to pull now if this doesn't work. I agree that this protest will just speed up the inevitable - we could cut the taxes on fuel to 0% - but if there's no fuel to tax, there's no fuel for farmers/truckers etc. Government should have communicated better. We have had a terrible net zero carbon policy in place from the Greens without thinking about energy security during a transition.
As an aside I think 23% VAT rate was always an extreme rate to have and impacts on so much - should really be around 16%...which costs nearly 5 billion but government spending is out of whack, completely reliant on 3 companies paying the vast amount of corporation tax - I feel like it's akin to the 2008 crash - when the FF gov back then was reliant on stamp duty for budgets. House of cards.
Don't think many people realise how long this is going to go on for and the everlasting impacts. We are in a new world.
https://jrnl.ie/7013433
This is a new one to me but apparently hitting yourself in the face with a hammer and taking meth will make you more attractive.
Some people should not be allowed have children, and should be chemically restricted from doing so.
What's hilarious is even after all that shite he's still just a regular-lookong lad.
The depressing thing is the fact that there has to be statements me to the effect of "what these chuds are doing is bad, so please don't do that or allow your kids".
Like you'd think that'd be pretty obvious if you possess more than two braincells, but here we are.