Are we all fucked?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If it reassures you, I have entertained (I wouldn't say more than that though) the idea that, if it were all an elaborate orchestration, then it would be with a view to bumping global arms sales more than anything else, so driven by those admittedly fucking massive financial and power interests.

[Kurt Cocaine]

There is definitely a variety of elements to the whole thing that we don't know about, but denying anything is happening or entertaining that as an idea is fried.

Are even the Russians saying they're not there though? I know they might be spinning it differently back home but it's still established that they are there.

I saw a video purporting to be a Ukrainian attack on a suburb of Donetsk, which didn't look any more real or fake than the others I've seen claiming to be Russian attacks on places. What I did notice however was that all the Ukrainian flag in bio crowd were saying this one was fake, whereas all the paranoia accounts were calling the Russian attacks fake.
Most were seemingly oblivious to the idea that they might be getting played from both sides, which to me seems obvious but it was interesting to see both sides claiming the same of each other, like the bioweapon story coming from both sides of the war.

It's all very Cambridge Analytica once more, as was so much of covid on both sides and it feels coordinated and it feels like whoever is doing it is getting better at it all the time. Everything on social media since the trump campaign in 2015/6  is used to divide as many as possible along the strongest lines and this war is no different. It's why I won't get into this one much aside from a few generalised points here and there. And the best part of all is that I still wouldn't rule out all this carry on being designed with nothing in mind only to sell you things and profit from you over all else but then I'd be one of those paranoia accounts I was on about for the most part.

The biolabs in Ukraine are funded by the American taxpayer and the biggest investor is a company called Rosemont Seneca. A company founded by Hunter Biden and Christopher Heinz in 2009.
Christopher Heinz is John Jerry's son.
MetaBiota is the insurance company...
Nancy Pelosi's son Paul sits on the board of a Ukrainian energy company. Romney's son does too.
They're all in on it...

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

But still none more so than Putin!

[Ollkiller]

Whatever the background to it all, right now 14 russian naval ships are near Odessa and have started shelling the city. Taking the Grozny playbook and flattening cities. Hopefully some of the stolen russian gear can be pointed at those ships. Saw the real estimate is 4 to 6 thousand russian troops dead so far. Mostly young conscripts. Poor bastards. Russia has no qualms about casualties anyway.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

"No war
Stop the war
Don't believe propaganda
Here they lie to you
Russians against war"

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1503446891014537222

Ovaries of steel this one has.

Also seen lots of people saying this has many hallmarks of a Kremlin endorsed stunt, either to get the west talking, as I did, about brave Russians or, what I would sooner suspect, to give an impression that dissent is not actually treated so harshly as we have heard: this woman got away with a rather small fine so far.

[Caomhaoin]

Whatever the background to it all, right now 14 russian naval ships are near Odessa and have started shelling the city. Taking the Grozny playbook and flattening cities. Hopefully some of the stolen russian gear can be pointed at those ships. Saw the real estimate is 4 to 6 thousand russian troops dead so far. Mostly young conscripts. Poor bastards. Russia has no qualms about casualties anyway.

The Russians are holding back. It's not in doubt that they are performing poorly but Putin wants a low causality, low cost war with a swift resolution. The artillery arsenal available to them is enormous, as well as a high quality Air Force, both of which have been for the most part conspicuous by their absence. Putin has miscalculated badly, and there is no way he'll pull out if it means losing face. Either he gets most of what he wants via these talks or it's going to get far, far worse.

[Ollkiller]

Whatever the background to it all, right now 14 russian naval ships are near Odessa and have started shelling the city. Taking the Grozny playbook and flattening cities. Hopefully some of the stolen russian gear can be pointed at those ships. Saw the real estimate is 4 to 6 thousand russian troops dead so far. Mostly young conscripts. Poor bastards. Russia has no qualms about casualties anyway.

The Russians are holding back. It's not in doubt that they are performing poorly but Putin wants a low causality, low cost war with a swift resolution. The artillery arsenal available to them is enormous, as well as a high quality Air Force, both of which have been for the most part conspicuous by their absence. Putin has miscalculated badly, and there is no way he'll pull out if it means losing face. Either he gets most of what he wants via these talks or it's going to get far, far worse.

Agree on all that. It seems the Ukrainians are just gonna hunker down in the bomb shelters (apart from a few mobile units attacking Russian positions) and fight the urban battle when it happens. Now that will be brutal.

[astfgyl]

If it reassures you, I have entertained (I wouldn't say more than that though) the idea that, if it were all an elaborate orchestration, then it would be with a view to bumping global arms sales more than anything else, so driven by those admittedly fucking massive financial and power interests.

I get ya. I'm not entertaining this elaborate hoax idea at all, but if there was one it'd surely be for the purposes of selling things.

There's obviously many many little hoaxes all over the internet about it all but whatever, they can keep em

[astfgyl]

Here is an example of why it's hard to believe things coming from Ukraine. This is not to take sides either, but where did this person get this info from?

https://mobile.twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1502875319170387968

Posted march 13th. Theatre shelled yesterday. What are the chances? What we now have is a large cohort claiming coincidence and another large cohort claiming intelligence.

I have no idea other than it's a bit suspect. So it might be pre emptive propaganda on the part of the Russians or maybe Ukrainian attempt to garner more support. Or the poster was clairvoyant, or pulled it out of their arse. The point I'm making is that one can pick any of those and run with it and will likely never find out if it's true bar the theatre was hit by something. The Azov battalion carrying out false flags all over Ukraine isn't exactly floating my boat as a theory either, but would I be surprised at things like this happening? I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean I'm buying that version either. Even the maternity hospital one was similarly questionable. You just have to take the Ukrainians word for it, or their allies, or the Russians, and would you believe any of them?

Of course, me being me, I'm off wondering if the present is so questionable then imagine what war history is like?

Edit:

https://youtu.be/ANNhDKGjNK8

That was in the comments. Being blamed on Ukrainian forces. Looks realistic enough to me but who knows who did what. It's not as if the media anywhere are going to take an unbiased view of any of it. I hope the regular folks there can get out soon if there's no ceasefire, and there's surely a thread online somewhere calling them all crisis actors and Russian disinformation and how the Ukrainians wouldn't do a thing like that.

Am I the only one here thinking like this about it all, like has everyone else just donned their Ukrainian colours and simply believes we aren't being equally propagandised here?

War is fuckin awful

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Yer wan is obviously Russian (Ukrainians who speak Russian are not "ethnic Russians", this idea is also part of Russian propaganda, aimed at negating the valid existence of Ukraine as a separate country and culture), and that is just the kind of narrative Russia has been pushing, identical to what Israel states whenever they kill a load of civilians in Palestine: "Hamas are using civilians as human shields."

If her tweet tells us anything, it's as likely telling us that this was a pre-meditated attack by Russia on civilians, all set up to be blamed on Azov, who they like to claim are literally running the nation.

But who knows exactly what's going on. That Donetsk attack, and the claims it was by Ukrainian forces, was pretty widely covered the other day. Fuckin' awful, as you say. There's no reason to believe that civilians won't be killed by Ukrainian forces; they're hardly likely to be flawless where even the most technologically advanced armies in the world, US and Israel, for example, are so utterly flawed.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Happy St Patrick's Day lads & lassies...

Yeah, we're all fucked alright. More interested in a bullshit theatre experience in far away lands...
Get them pints of plain inta yiz and fuck the world..!!

[Ollkiller]

Am I the only one here thinking like this about it all, like has everyone else just donned their Ukrainian colours and simply believes we aren't being equally propagandised here?

The state of Ukrainian propaganda is to say 12000 Russian troops have been killed when the figure is around 7000 troops. The Russians bombed the theatre and then blamed the Ukranians. That simple really.

[Caomhaoin]

Fog of War boyz.

7000 seems very high to me.

[astfgyl]

Am I the only one here thinking like this about it all, like has everyone else just donned their Ukrainian colours and simply believes we aren't being equally propagandised here?

The state of Ukrainian propaganda is to say 12000 Russian troops have been killed when the figure is around 7000 troops. The Russians bombed the theatre and then blamed the Ukranians. That simple really.

You don't actually know this, although I get that you believe you do. That's how propaganda works.

Edit: the more I read that comment, the more naive it looks. "That simple"? The tweet in question was before the theatre attack, not after

Seriously?

[astfgyl]

Yer wan is obviously Russian (Ukrainians who speak Russian are not "ethnic Russians", this idea is also part of Russian propaganda, aimed at negating the valid existence of Ukraine as a separate country and culture), and that is just the kind of narrative Russia has been pushing, identical to what Israel states whenever they kill a load of civilians in Palestine: "Hamas are using civilians as human shields."

If her tweet tells us anything, it's as likely telling us that this was a pre-meditated attack by Russia on civilians, all set up to be blamed on Azov, who they like to claim are literally running the nation.

But who knows exactly what's going on. That Donetsk attack, and the claims it was by Ukrainian forces, was pretty widely covered the other day. Fuckin' awful, as you say. There's no reason to believe that civilians won't be killed by Ukrainian forces; they're hardly likely to be flawless where even the most technologically advanced armies in the world, US and Israel, for example, are so utterly flawed.

My own thoughts also say some sort of pre emptive propaganda but that doesn't tie up nicely either. How did she have this on the 13th, a lucky guess? Something off with it but I have no idea what. I copped that she was on the side of the Russians straight away and I'll be careful not to go down that road because they shouldn't be there plain and simple no matter what their justification. I also don't think the Azov battalion are representative of the entire Ukrainian army or the civilians though I get they have a certain level of support.