Are we all fucked?

[jobrok1]

So y'all missed the news of the EPA lifting all water and air pollution regulations for all businesses during the crisis? USA! USA!

You serious?
Where d'you see this?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/27/trump-pollution-laws-epa-allows-companies-pollute-without-penalty-during-coronavirus

[jobrok1]

Unbelievable...!!!
He really is one ridiculous excuse for a human being.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Michael Moore funded renewable energy policy exposé, calls to ban it from several sectors.

https://youtu.be/Zk11vI-7czE

It has lots of critics, and probably plenty of points to be debunked, but the overall message - that what needs changing more than anything else isn't a shift to green energy but rather a drastic reduction in consumption - is spot on. Anyway, very grim viewing, be warned.

[Caomhaoin]

Zero mention of Nuclear Power in that though. Germany tried a partial phase out in favour of renewable sources and it ended up having the opposite of the desired effect.

You have a point about the consumption issue, and considering it's produced by Moore, who I find annoying and dishonest at the best of times, it's not 'left-heavy' in fairness.

[Emphyrio]

I find his stuff very watchable but I've grown to dislike him a fair bit. Will give this a whirl in the next day or two.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Zero mention of Nuclear Power in that though. Germany tried a partial phase out in favour of renewable sources and it ended up having the opposite of the desired effect.

The green movement is generally anti-nuclear, so it's not part of what he's exposing here; the green smoke screen, so to speak.

[Pedrito]

I found it to be an excellent documentary in terms of going after the Golden Calves that we are all supposed to accept as givens and solutions, the leaders who seem to be given constant passes and we blindly accept as having the solutions to all of this. There's a certain aura around the likes of Elon Musk, for example, whereby he cannot seem to do anything wrong. Steve Jobs was viewed similarly. I'm sure they have their critics, but the vibe is that these people know more than the rest of us..cult like, demi God stuff. That was extended out to Al Gore and a swathe of other celebrity environmentalists and I think that can only be a good thing. I've been sceptical about a lot of what's being sold to us as necessary for the environment for a long time. The electric car seems like a great idea until you start looking at the shit show that lies behind manufacturing them and actually running them off of the grid.

Where the documentary failed was in it's tone of absolute dejection by the end. Nothing seems to be working, and I find that hard to believe also. The guy who directed is a huge proponent of environmental issues etc, so he's not trying to sabotage the whole thing, but his tone by the end of the documentary is completely defeatist and there's a certain nihilistic feeling about the whole thing.

Well worth a watch, it would be great if they could do a follow up documentary, something showing solutions instead of the Human beings are the problem, we need to start aborting on massive scales type feeling I got at the end. Then again, maybe I'm just reiterating the very delusion that the documentary was attacking, and it's time to face reality. A sobering thought.

[Pedrito]

I haven't read this guy Yuval Noah Harari's books yet, but if this interview is anything to go by, they won't disappoint. Following on from the ideas from above documentary on climate change, I found it interesting where here he breaks down in very simplistic terms what is the crux of the matter when it comes to where we are going and what might be wrong with our current system.

It's all well and good giving out about X and Y and calling for revolution and attacking those with power as is Russell Brand's approach here, but again, it is just a far too a simplistic, almost childish, way to see the world. Brand talks about Ghandi and how he wanted India to live in some sort of agrarian utopia, which never worked and Harari is completely correct in saying that you can't expect people to just suddenly start living out of their back gardens when the technology already exists, the future is already here, and these romantic ideas of turning back the clock to some sort of Ideal humanity are a fool's errand. How can we expect people who not to covet and desire a better future for their kids, and not to be taken in by dreams such as capitalism etc.

Just to underline, I'm not taking sides necesarily here, but obviously Harari's final point of a vision of where we're going to be in 2050 is what is required.  Some plan that will take in the environment, population growth, pandemics etc etc etc. An answer really to the 'Are we all fucked'  question. Maybe the Coronavirus approach, whereby a semblance of cooperation was reached might point the way. Who knows? I certainly don't, but this idea that some revolution or uprising or the young people will fix it, which Michael Moore was spouting in defence of his the documentary, is essentially idealistic hyperbole that offers no real solution.

Worth a watch anyway..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta4U8G03q98

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This lack of a future vision is what I was talking about on FB yesterday Peter. It's true, no one is presenting one; neither the left nor the right political types, okay, but there aren't even any serious visionary thinkers whose voices are being heard on it. We are really lacking such figures at present.

When we look at what food production efficiency has given us, i.e. millions of free hands to manufacture and consume unnecessary goods and services, the temptation to say that we'd almost be better off breaking the machines and getting back to working the earth is high. It could notably do wonders for mental health, the chronic scourge of the west. Otherwise, if we do hold on to that efficiency, then we need to find a better use for all those idle hands, a use which isn't primarily about consumption with a view to "stimulating" a global growth economy, but some other goal entirely. The problem is finding something people agree upon. One mid-term goal could be to convert millions of jobs into environment cleaners; christ knows there's enough to be fucking done!

Anyway, the elephant in the room (although whispers are gathering volume) is a resource based global economy. That's the heart of any vision of tomorrow equipped to exclude the worst excesses of today all the while embracing its technological know-how and potential.

[Eoin McLove]

What do you mean by resource based global economy?

[Pedrito]

A quick google reveals the Venus Project and the video is very interesting> https://www.thevenusproject.com/resource-based-economy/

I'm not sure if it's what Chris is talking about though.

What I understand from the video is that it is basically town planning on a massive global scale but on the basis of available resources. You build cities that can survive on the resources around them. Things are so finely tuned by technicians that energy, for example, is not wasted, the best ways of powering things are found for example and there is a sharing of that resource with the next city etc. Every city and town around the world follows the same map so that each one can stand on it's own 2 feet. The idea is that if we all had the same high standard of living, which is completely possible, according to what is available to us on the planet, there would be no need for money or war or fighting for resources. Technology does all the hard work and humans go back to school, exercise, do what we're all doing at the moment in lockdown.   

I'm completely open to correction on that summary though 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

It is and it isn't. It gives an idea of it, although much more sober and pragmatic versions than the Venus project are conceivable. Long term sustainable management of real resources as the foundation of the global economy, as opposed to creation of capital wealth.

[astfgyl]

The resource based economy is a wonderful ideal, but I can't see the large private corporations who generate unimaginable amounts of imaginary credits globally every year agreeing to it too easily. It is a much better idea than what we have at the moment though.

[Eoin McLove]

Sounds too good to ever be implemented.