Crime Courts Law

[astfgyl]

None of that post makes sense to me, even less so in the context of the preceding ones. Can you explain?

I do know the French lad got a phone-call from Macron. After which anyone would need a pint 

Don't pretend you don't see what I see, just because it suits your ideology this time.

I would have you down for being smarter than that I honestly would.

So are you going to stay pretending you don't see it just to trump me in a shit argument on an anonymous handle chat board or will you actually apply the self reflection just this once?

I know where my tenner will be going

Back into my pocket is the answer because you can't bet against religion and for an atheist or agnostic or whatever you describe yourself as, you've picked your spectrum of acceptable debate.

I'll look forward to your counterpoint

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well, we were talking about how fucked up it is to organize a candle lit vigil for victims of an attack outside an accommodation centre for migrant families who had nothing to do with said attack. Then you said the "opposition" are "no better" and, seemingly as evidence of that, showed a tweet about what looks like a queer Asian nurse who apparently performed CPR on one of the victims until the emergency services arrived. But how are the details of an intentionally organized event in any way morally ("no better") comparable to the details of a spontaneous chaotic event? Or are you implying the Asian nurse angle is made up? Or that it's being exaggerated...? Also, I don't get what you mean about the username care2much either. So yeah, don't know which of quite a few possible angles you're coming from, but none of them seem to be "no better" than intentionally intimidating families holed up in temporary accommodation.

[Bürggermeister]

Which is the problematic bit, that he's Filipino or that he appears to be gay? Or is it a mix of both creates something too hot to handle?

[jobrok1]

Back in 5... Just need to put on some popcorn!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Poor lad seems like he's on the verge of PTSD recounting the event:
https://twitter.com/SMurphyTV/status/1729192303900885232

[astfgyl]

Stay pretending you can't see the spin so lads.

Go find out about Care2much18.

The lads outside the refugee centre are fried cunts and should be up at the Dáil in any event but this "look how wonderful all the foreigners are" bullshit is bullshit too. Fuckin sky news interview because he's not Irish. Load of bollix

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I think you've lost it on this one man.

Looked up Care2much18 there. Grand, so there's a claim the lad behind the account is a conman. Let's say he is, since I've no fucking clue who he is in real life (you shared the fuckin' post from his account!) and so don't have any attachment to him. Still, a conman sharing a true fact doesn't make that fact less true. So, that's irrelevant, forget about it, no bearing on the facts whatsoever.

What would you like the media to have done? Ignore the first medically trained person who arrived on the scene because he's not Irish? Take five minutes and you will find countless human interest media stories about off-duty nurses and doctors who intervened in a crash, an attack, whatever. Sky News, or whatever media, hasn't lost it, they're doing what they always do. If Siobhan Kearney had been a nurse and done the CPR, she'd be interviewed about it. Conspiracy paranoia is running rampant in that head of yours.

[Ollkiller]

Media org interviews person on scene of major incident. Isnt that what media do like.

[astfgyl]

Sure lads

[The Butcher]

Minister Ryan said: "I love Dublin, I grew up, (was) born and raised in this city. It has great qualities, great characteristics, but as long as my neighbour doesn't feel secure, then I'm insecure too.
"We need to keep the decency and the culture and the values that are real Dublin values in my mind, not be intimidated by the sort of antics we saw last week, and we can make it safe and we need to make it safe."

It's the framing of the narrative isn't it? It's not children being stabbed on one of the main streets of Dublin in broad daylight, not the beheadings of gay men. The hot topic of deflection is resourcing the Gardai and this is the window from which they will discuss resourcing An Garda Siochana. Not to mention draconian facial recognition and hate speech legislation that will be rammed through, courtesy of the usual scumbag gougers that no one ever cared about before beating up US tourists and much more across the cities streets but not to mention the braindead right winged agitators that have no idea how to appeal to the silent majority. The silent majority who can clearly see that certain elephants in the room aren't being addressed and is constantly brushed under the carpet, in the days of online social media, it's a futile exercise that beats the drum even louder ->

In a poll of 1,000 voters, some 75% of those polled agreed with the statement "I think the number of refugees Ireland is taking in is now too many", while 19% disagreed with the statement. 

Older people, lower economic classes and Sinn Féin or Independent voters were most likely to say they felt too many refugees are being allowed in.

Some 74% of Fianna Fáil voters and 70% of Fine Gael voters also agreed the State has accepted too many asylum seekers. 

A similarly large majority (76%) said they appreciate the anger felt about asylum seekers being moved into local areas; 21% said they do not appreciate the anger and 3% said they don't know

Democracy, the will of the people should be at the forefront of this but it isn't. Science forbid we discuss immigration like adults.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

For the state lower middle-class and working class Ireland is in, with respect to both housing and social amenities, it is too many.

That's why a missing question in polls like this is whether people think the government's priority should be to 1) put a stop to immigration, or 2) fix the nationwide housing and social amenities issue.

The will of the people, quite famously, is very easy to manipulate, first and foremost by limiting the perceived options upon which that will can be exercised.

[The Butcher]

For the state lower middle-class and working class Ireland is in, with respect to both housing and social amenities, it is too many.

That's why a missing question in polls like this is whether people think the government's priority should be to 1) put a stop to immigration, or 2) fix the nationwide housing and social amenities issue.

The will of the people, quite famously, is very easy to manipulate, first and foremost by limiting the perceived options upon which that will can be exercised.

True and people will point to many elections or votes over the years to highlight that very point. The missing question you give there actually limits the options to the extremes, first extreme I don't think anyone would favour stopping immigration altogether (bar the agitators I mentioned) and the easy feel good answer would be to pick number 2 - but realistically that's been attempted for a decade by government whether you disagree with their policies or not (and I very much so disagree with many!) - again it comes down to how many numbers can we take in per year. We have limited resources to build houses, to fund infrastructure, to sustain healthcare/education. There is finite resources and at the moment, an unlimited number that can come in, it's not sustainable.

It makes zero sense to outnumber locals in rural/lower class areas with very limited/overrun services and resources and at the same time, disregard their voices. Integration is an extremely tough thing to do in the best case scenarios so doesn't seem to be hope that it will happen in the worse cases! There's plenty of people who come here that work or enrich their local communities in many ways but there is also the other side of the coin that will cause further strain on our housing/health/policing resources for absolutely zero gain/benefit, example is the recent stabber who allegedly according to the Sunday Times hasn't worked in the 23 years he has been here.

Everything should be debated by the adults in the room with the hope that common sense policies rise to the top and there's no feeling that no one is not being listened to. The current tactics by government/gardai/media will only make things worse. You know well most people get entrenched in their views, will never budge or admit being wrong so tactics have to change as I also fear if AI does get to the stage where it wipes out a big % of jobs at a frightening pace - we have sleepwalked ourselves into a different crisis altogether.

[hellfire]

Moving large numbers of people into a country while the existing population have nowhere to live was always going to create resentment. If you tried to cause social tension on purpose that would be one of the top ideas. Putting new arrivals in social housing puts them in direct conflict with people in the lower income brackets.

Solving the problem doesn't require any change to laws, just enforcement of existing laws and treaties. The government just has no will to do so. Restricting welfare to non Irish nationals to only their stamps would have the problem evaporate overnight. It would also negate any talking points by the likes of Mick O'Keefe. As a sidenote he's also unemployed.

EU free movement rules do have a clause about being able to support yourself and not being a burden on the state. We have an lot out from some articles of Lisbon regarding refugees. The first safe country thing is another option.

Demonizing people with terms such as far right won't help. They called everyone from granny's sitting on lawn chairs outside an IPAS centre to lads burning a luas far right. The idea that a central core of bad actors is driving this is laughable. The Indian lads at work are as baffled as anyone why we are taking in and paying for other countries cast offs.

Dismissing and ignoring these concerns with insults and derision won't help. As with the peaceful protests the lads at the bottom of the social heap are the canary down the coal mine. What happens when all the lads over 30 who had to move back with their parents have had enough. Or taxpayers who see other people in paid houses while they have to skip meals? Continuing down the road of forcing this on people will result in further extreme scenes.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

There are definitely several anomalous things coming up about the stabber: supposed deportation order overturned, subsequently granted citizenship (but upon what basis?), supposedly never worked, supposedly had mental health issues... not a lot of concrete elements in there, but definitely builds up into a profile of a failure not just of immigration policy, but several other areas of government. People, perhaps especially men, need to be kept occupied, one way or another. The devil manifestly finds work for idle hands and all that. Puska wasn't too dissimilar a case in that respect at least. And I have personal experience with more than one young Irish male whose either total lack of occupation or lack of, let's say, any meaningful occupation has worked a hoop on their mental health and led in a couple of those cases also to violent criminal behavior. People go on about the welfare system like it's a cushy number with only positives for the people on it. Nonsense. Enabling individuals to do fuck all for lengthy periods of time can both drive people off the wall and/or seriously exacerbate pre-existing conditions. If yer man hadn't worked for 23 years and if he had previously identified mental health issues, those to my mind are the dimensions of this particular case signalling areas for most urgent work, not the fact that he grew up in Algeria.

I do agree with pretty much all of what you've said in your last couple of long posts too Butch.

[The Butcher]

On the mental health aspect - I remember in 2016 - Mental health got just €15m despite €35m Budget vow while they gave the Greyhound industry 16 million a year. Priorities in full swing! The idle hands is a good point and community led initiatives are definitely undervalued in society.

Government couldn't have fked it up more - The state in 2013 used taxpayers money to demolish ghost estates led by a Labour minister. Vulture fund legislation in 2013 paved the way for the "recovery" of the property market - which meant people not only have to contend with each other but foreign corporate entities with overwhelming purchasing power compared to us plebs have had a field day buying up the supply and renting back to us at exorbitant rates. Councils buying private property keeping current prices inflated & distorting the market instead of using that money to build. The previous Dail, 42 (26.5%) have declared themselves as landlords, with Fine Gael having the highest proportion — 18 of its 50 TDs (36%) have an income from renting out property or land. We had a previous Housing Minister claiming 320,000 is affordable housing. Need a salary over 91,000 to achieve this. That's game over for the lower classes.

There is a vested interest to keep this gravy train/demand up and we lived in this hyper capitalist state with no balances or consequences on corruption. I always get reminded of the Australian billionaire property tycoon Harry Triguboff, the senile asshat who can buy up apartment blocks, keep a % vacant on purpose to drum up demand even more so he can increase the rents, valuations go up and he sells it on at a later date with plenty of profit. An utter cunt. If I was going to join any group of agitators it would be ones that would go after that ilk

Solving the problem doesn't require any change to laws, just enforcement of existing laws and treaties. The government just has no will to do so. Restricting welfare to non Irish nationals to only their stamps would have the problem evaporate overnight. It would also negate any talking points by the likes of Mick O'Keefe. As a sidenote he's also unemployed.

I see Musk has been replying to him a lot which is ballooning his reach. Agreed on enforcement - we won't see anything like this even uttered by government (or the opposition) and as you said, it will only feed into the extremes but also bring in others into the fold.