Crime Courts Law

[astfgyl]

Actually thank god those (proposed but also generally despised because of the loss of civil liberties inherent in their possible application) hate speech laws have been accelerated in light of recent developments instead of simply having a robust immigration policy or (god forbid) telling the truth as to why such policies might be permitted in the face of violent public opposition. I mean, when has suppression of free speech ever been a bad thing?

Any country that cannot criticise their government is a forward thinking win for Democracy And The Rule Of Law, isn't it?

We are lucky that we have the government to keep us all safe from the type of information that might make us think that they are not acting in our best interests. If we don't get these laws passed very soon we will have people doing bad far right stuff like finding out that there's more than one side to the story.

If we get it right, the laws should prevent any criticism of the government that isn't disguised as satire. That's the way we like it, governed harder by daddy like we need.

Also thank god we will have an impartial media to which those same laws will apply. That will really get the maverick journalists' juices flowing to put the boot into whichever government is in power if they don't act in the best interests of the populace.

How's it looking on the old left there,  @blackshepherdcarnage? We are more together than we ever were now aren't we?; now that the rule of equality is being applied.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I've wanted the establishment government out since as long as I've had an opinion on Irish politics. And they've never been out. And that's the government who want to introduce whatever thing has your emotions getting the better of your reasoning.


Going back to Dail speeches about Thursday's riots, Paul Murphy hung out all the most familiar names today, reading out their tweets and other messages starting early afternoon Thursday, plus hung Mattie McGrath out along with them:
https://twitter.com/tvcritics/status/1729611390178996555

Again, I really don't care about the individual reading the stuff out, what's significant (and, who knows, in terms of notoriety, perhaps it also has a negative side) is that these names are now down in the public governmental record as (alleged) far right agitators.

[astfgyl]

Paul Murphy?

Thank god you're not having a laugh by the mere mention of his name or else I wouldn't have taken your comment seriously

[astfgyl]

I've wanted the establishment government out since as long as I've had an opinion on Irish politics.

It's an awful pity you're not living in Ireland where we are shortly about to implement hate speech laws that would prevent your saying anything like that!

Some neck on you to criticise the government or any of their policies or actions.

The quicker they bring in those laws the better, to stop the likes of hateful extremists such as yourself.

[hellfire]

Forget, if you like and if you can, the individual delivering the beating... and just enjoy the beating    Solid 'Stop it, he's already dead!' stuff:

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1729552353802473648

I've often wondered what a horrible life her husband must have. Imagine if he left the dishes in the sink or didn't take out the rubbish. Scary little woman.

I like to see the government getting every dressing down possible and she sure can do that. Worst government in my living memory.

[Eoin McLove]

She's spot on. The inner city has had a lawless feel to it the past decade with open drug dealing going on for all to see. No attempt at discretion, the lads practically holding banners up to advertise their wares. I was expecting to see vigilante groups emerge to start killing the cunts, which would have been a better use of the supposed far right's energy than roaring abuse at immigrants. And I'm not saying immigration shouldn't be taken seriously, but let's not leave it to Ireland's finest to implement that policy. 

[astfgyl]

Come on lads of The Far Left, you're usually so quick to spout your hateful rhetoric against opinions that differ from your own....

Why are you not calling out the things that are wrong in the world now like that pesky old Freedom Of Speech That Doesn't Conform To The Charter Of Acceptable Opinions As Defined By The State, Represented By The Loving Government Of The Current Day.

And never forget that the correct opinions are backed up by the social science that backs them up. Not the scientific method as used by The Far Right worldwide and that has so many wasted lives of the jailed and/or lined up against a wall and shot for their (extremely slight but still too far outside of the spectrum of acceptable opinion, as defined by the extremely vague in description, but yet not in any way vague in the description of how the as yet unknown offences might be punishable) centrist ideas. .

I for one think that the government is about to do the right thing in creating punishable offences that are, by definition, indefinable. I am really impressed with intellect like that from our elected government (who we wanted in so badly that we insisted that an ionaid votaile ata i gceist stayed counting until we got our Young Global Leader Mr Varadkar back in his rightful place in less than 7 counts iirc.

We are aiming for total conformity here lads and however we get there, it will be worth it. We will no longer be Young Global Leaders, we will be the grown ups in terms of subservience to unelected rulers the world over.

Let's not let ourselves down this time lads and let's really show the world how to best be entirely under the fat thumb of governmental control of free speech and say absolutely nothing about it other than to thank the Dear Leaders for their preventing the Rise Of The Far Right by preventing the utterance of anything that might be construed as dissent at all.

Oh yeah actually while I'm here did anyone hear that some children were stabbed by a lunatic coming out of their school the other day?

Yeah there was a mad furore over where the evil bastard was from but it turned out that he was an Irish citizen. Well he wasn't born here or anything but luckily he he managed to fight a 5 year legal battle and successfully against all odds go on to not only be not deported but in fact become an Irish citizen instead, thus proving the strength of our policies in general, an actualisation of our greatness only challenged in its mental fortitude by having the same chap arrested for having a knife on him a few months earlier but still having the good sense to let him back out with all the freedoms that a lad who survived a deportation order against all odds and managed to never work a day in his life should be entirely entitled to as any Irish citizen should be.

I feel so enriched so I do. Can't wait to have laws to stop anyone giving out about it

[hellfire]

The term far right needs to be defined. Who does it describe and what  level of extremity is required to meet the threshold? What is regular right or conservative? At the moment its used to describe anyone who doesn't subscribe to a set of ideals that would be considered radical in a lot of countries. Define it before spraying it around like confetti.

[astfgyl]

If you oppose this and the systems that led to it, you are the far right:

(Before I do go on, I'd like to note for the record the lack of definition offered by even the hardest leftists on here in the most popular thread in the section. I too, want to read the definition of far right and see how I fit into it)

The primary suspect in last week's stabbing attack in Dublin had his application to remain in the state supported by two Irish NGOs, Gript Media can reveal. While the suspect cannot be named as he has yet to face any legal charges, the broad background of how he came to be living in Ireland is made clear in court records seen by Gript Media.

Those court records outline an almost decade-long legal saga, involving two Justice Ministers, multiple court applications, and a consistent pattern of refused applications on behalf of the suspect.

The suspect arrived in Ireland in August, 1999, and applied for asylum on the basis of what he claimed was a fear of being tortured by an Islamic Militant Group – the GIA (Groupe Islamique Armé) – if returned to Algeria. He told Irish authorities that he had been working in Algeria as a canteen assistant with an oil company, and that in the course of his work he had been kidnapped and tortured by four members of the GIA in late 1998 or early 1999. He claimed that this torture had taken place in order to get him to reveal details about a family member who worked for the Algerian Government.

The processing of the asylum application took two years. In August 2001, the suspect was informed by the authorities that he had received a negative recommendation for asylum. The suspect was then invited to make applications "in the ordinary way" outlining why, despite this negative recommendation, he should nevertheless be granted leave to remain.

He made no such application.

In 2003, two years after his application was refused, a deportation order was signed by the then Minister for Justice, now Senator, Michael McDowell. This order was conveyed by letter in March 2003. The suspect was ordered to present himself to the Garda National Immigration Bureau to arrange his deportation within a week of receiving the letter with the deportation order. By this time he had been in Ireland for almost four years.

He did not attend to arrange his own deportation, and was then classified by the authorities as an evader, meaning the Gardai were authorised to apprehend him. This, however, did not happen.

Indeed the suspect remained living openly in Ireland, and at an unknown date sought the assistance of two Irish NGOs working in the Asylum sector with his case. Both these NGOs continue to work in Ireland today, and one is relatively well known.

Between May 2003, and February 2004, court records show that several unsuccessful applications were made on behalf of the suspect – now under new legal representation – for extra time for an application for leave to remain, and for a quashing of the deportation order.

Each of these was refused by the courts. The state's submissions noted that the suspect had repeatedly given inconsistent answers in relation to his case and that there were questions about his credibility.

However, the two NGOs, which Gript is not in a position to name openly due to legal issues around the present stabbing case, helped the suspect make yet another application, this time on the basis that the Minister had erred in law by not granting asylum.

One of the NGOs submitted to the courts a medical report which it claimed showed the lasting physical and psychological effects of the suspect's alleged torture in Algeria.

The Irish state, in response, argued that while it accepted the the suspect had clearly endured torture in late 1998 or early 1999, the alleged torture had not been carried out by the Algerian state and that as such the suspect had nothing to fear in his home country. The state also argued that no new facts had been presented supporting the suspect's case. By way of background, by this time the GIA – accused of carrying out the torture – was no longer an operational group in Algeria.

This court application also failed, and Minister McDowell reaffirmed the deportation order in October 2004. Despite that, two further years passed without the deportation order being carried out, and the suspect continued to live openly in Ireland with the deportation order in place, but unexecuted.

The suspect made a further application to challenge the order in 2006. This, too, was rejected, and he was denied leave to do so by the courts. The deportation order remained in effect. The suspect continued to live in Ireland.

In 2008, a further application was made to the Minister for Justice – by this time Fianna Fáil's Brian Lenihan – to exercise his discretion and to grant an application for subsidiary protection for the suspect, which would grant him leave to remain in Ireland. The Minister, again, refused this application and the deportation order was reaffirmed. It had now been in place for five years, unenforced.

In that same year, the suspect challenged the Minister, again in the High Court, and again supported by the evidence of one of the two NGOs, on the grounds that the Minister had unfairly refused to use his discretion.

The main argument in that case was that the Minister for Justice's refusal to exercise discretion and grant the suspect leave to remain in Ireland was an arbitrary decision, and inconsistent with previous decisions in similar cases. There was a specific argument made that the Minister, by refusing to use said discretion, had acted in a discriminatory manner because discretion had been granted to others – an argument described by the court as "unattractive".

However, the court ruled that the Minister had erred by not noting the differences in the legal meaning of "serious harm" which arose on foot of a court ruling in 2007, and decided that a new and expanded definition of that phrase adopted by the courts should have been considered by the Minister in light of the 2008 application. It is notable that this new definition was not in place at the time of the original order, or at the time of any application made by the suspect up until 2008.

At each step, until the 2008 court decision, the state firmly opposed any and all efforts to grant the suspect leave to remain in Ireland. For nine years, he had lived here without permission to remain. However, it should be noted that no efforts are on record of the state attempting to enforce the deportation order which was live, and in place, for a full five years. For a period of time, the suspect was classified as an "evader" – somebody who is actively evading the law and avoiding their own deportation.

Nevertheless, and arguably as a result, it came to be that the state was compelled, finally, to grant subsidiary protection, and leave to remain. The suspect later became a naturalised Irish citizen. Gript Media understands that he was never able to hold down a job in Ireland, and was provided with housing by at least one Irish NGO, separate to the NGOs that aided him in his legal battle against deportation. He remains in a grave condition in a Dublin hospital, and Gript Media understands that he is not in a fit state to be arrested or questioned in connection with the events of last Thursday.

The NGOs involved with the suspect's case have been contacted for further comment

There ye are lads, I quoted a whole Gript article so ye don't have to deny your gods by clicking into the real one.

It's things like this that are the reason why we need hate speech laws, so that we can just listen to the official story and brand any information to the contrary as misinformation and those disseminating it as the Far Right. We do it for social unity, that's why the public don't need to know the facts, because they wouldn't know how to correctly interpret them. Far better that the government tells them to you and the state media backs them up.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That's a fucking mental story. And the sheer cost of all that legal work, back and forth. I could see SF running with this too, since it just makes the sitting justice department look worse than ever.

[astfgyl]

That's a fucking mental story. And the sheer cost of all that legal work, back and forth. I could see SF running with this too, since it just makes the sitting justice department look worse than ever.

The worst thing there as I see it is that there are many folks who might have trodden a somewhat similar path and fought those deportation orders and gone on to be an asset to the place. I have tea every morning with a Nigerian lady who has been working and paying taxes just like myself for about 20 years here and she is as sound as a pound. It's the system that's fucked up, not the people just because they are foreign but the government is so tone deaf that they won't just do the few things needed to sort all that out. Most of the perceived racism in the place here is directly caused by government policies but at the same time I think that's a bit hateful of me to say so I rescind all previous comments on the matter and I'm all with the government now in their fight against misinformation. Thank god we have decent media in this country who won't report things like this in the interests of unity

Instead, thank god, they are bringing in legislation to stop people talking about things like that. I for one welcome it with open arms.

Edit: SF can run with what they like but it won't matter because they will have signed up to whatever the other lads have at the end of the day. I'll be interested to see the change and when they do get in without my vote I'll hope they at least do something to tip the scales in favour of those on the island whether they were born here or not but I know that won't happen because there's an agenda to be fulfilled. Pity

[hellfire]

That's a fucking mental story. And the sheer cost of all that legal work, back and forth. I could see SF running with this too, since it just makes the sitting justice department look worse than ever.

The only thing that could make McEntees department look more foolish would require clown costumes, unicycles and pies.

[astfgyl]

That's not fair man, sure isn't she going to be the face of bringing in those definitely not ridiculous hate speech laws.

It will be her crowning glory as Princess of all that is right in the world. I hope those laws make it a crime to think any different

[astfgyl]

https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1729871810769092808?t=WSO2-41eEd783Vp1HF03fg&s=19

That's the sort of can do attitude that I can really get behind

[astfgyl]

https://babylonbee.com/news/ireland-declares-asking-an-immigrant-to-stop-stabbing-you-a-hate-crime

Our mental fortitude has gone international it seems.

Shit enough site tbh like Waterford whispers the headline is the only funny bit