Extreme fanaticism in (black) metal

[astfgyl]

Ya, I met him at that Village gig as well and the minute I heard him talk in his normal yank accent all the evil disappeared. 😄

  he was trying to come on to my bird but she thought he was a dirty old man with a creepy voice.

"Hellllaaaowwww". No joke that's the way the lad was talking

[Born of Fire]

I think weird art is generally made by weird people (and lets be honest, most people who are obsessively into any niche hobby are probably a little weird, including all of us). For most people that weirdness is harmless, but obviously there are a small percentage of people who are actually crazy or dangerous.

So you could argue that craziness does play a part in the art they made, but does how their craziness manifests itself make the music more legitimate than say, a lad who's just socially awkward as fuck. I mean is Varg Vikernes more legit or more metal than Tom G Warrior? That's a no for my money, but we still apply the craziness of a guy like Varg's or Nodveidt's actions to their music.

Just on the mention of Nodtveidt. Despite the lads fixation on and strongly held belief in Satanism the music he created is fairly twee in comparison to his views and beliefs.

[Circlepit]

I think weird art is generally made by weird people (and lets be honest, most people who are obsessively into any niche hobby are probably a little weird, including all of us). For most people that weirdness is harmless, but obviously there are a small percentage of people who are actually crazy or dangerous.

So you could argue that craziness does play a part in the art they made, but does how their craziness manifests itself make the music more legitimate than say, a lad who's just socially awkward as fuck. I mean is Varg Vikernes more legit or more metal than Tom G Warrior? That's a no for my money, but we still apply the craziness of a guy like Varg's or Nodveidt's actions to their music.

Just on the mention of Nodtveidt. Despite the lads fixation on and strongly held belief in Satanism the music he created is fairly twee in comparison to his views and beliefs.

Stop, he is one of the very best to ever do it.

[Born of Fire]

I think weird art is generally made by weird people (and lets be honest, most people who are obsessively into any niche hobby are probably a little weird, including all of us). For most people that weirdness is harmless, but obviously there are a small percentage of people who are actually crazy or dangerous.

So you could argue that craziness does play a part in the art they made, but does how their craziness manifests itself make the music more legitimate than say, a lad who's just socially awkward as fuck. I mean is Varg Vikernes more legit or more metal than Tom G Warrior? That's a no for my money, but we still apply the craziness of a guy like Varg's or Nodveidt's actions to their music.

Just on the mention of Nodtveidt. Despite the lads fixation on and strongly held belief in Satanism the music he created is fairly twee in comparison to his views and beliefs.

Stop, he is one of the very best to ever do it.

Oh don't get me wrong, I love Dissections music but to me there does seem to be a big disconnect between the views he espoused and the beautiful melodies in his music.

[Circlepit]

Quite a lot of time is devoted to him in the book on Swedish death metal. He came across as such an innocent, almost child like. He also murdered someone and took his own life.
It's nuts that he put out music that's almost uplifting.

The fist time I heard Dissection I thought that this is what Van Halen would have sounded like if they were Scandinavian and played more extreme music.

Was he inherently evil or just using a more extreme form of music to get his point across? I don't know. The music was what came out when he wrote stuff.

What I've always found most fascinating with him was how he decided he had achieved what he has set out to do and ended it.
I can't fathom how he came to that way of thinking. Of course that's taking what has been written about him very literally.

I'm waffling now as I finished work and have had a drink or two.
I will say thing be they evil or not.
BM and DM just keep on giving.

[Shitstirrer]

I think the the early bands were more inspired and that's what made such classic albums .
The Finnish,Swedish and Norwegian bands of the early nineties were actually inspired .they felt they were evil and  different  from the herd and all the great early BM sounds totally different too .they all had their own take on it

I think you need a few eccentric individuals to make inspired BM .grand saying you can pick up a guitar or blast like hellhammer but if your really a sheep it will show .

You don't have to commit crimes but individuality is the key .

[KingHostile]

I remember the transition from Morbid Angel to Burzum, Emperor, Darkthrone (particularly after the first album) and Mayhem (Wolfs Lair was out).

There was a significant (Seismic) change in the scene, in the 90's, some people in bands here in Ireland were travelling to European festivals and some travelled to find more underground elements. The ideas coming back and the contacts made drove (for some) a more extreme view which did cost some friendships. It was over 20 years before I recall talking to some people again. Our views had become different, some had become less tolerant of subgenres and more extreme. Politics did come into it. Then there were a few deaths oversees. Some people went to prison. Some got burnt out in Berlin (if you know what I am talking about here, you will know who and what I am speaking of). Places I couldn't go.

When we think of where metal came from, the dance / rave, political and religious run ins..... especially if you were young. You put up with a lot of societal noise. We were open minded and tolerant society wasn't! For some Darkness in music was political fanaticism expressed through Black Metal.

For those who kept and open mind it was a great experience to go to other cities and make new friends skipping the extreme.

The musical journey was fantastic. The world changed.

Years later I knew people who were getting tattoos removed, lamenting the loss of 20 years of friendship as maturity set in.

This journey continues......

[Pentagrimes]

I think weird art is generally made by weird people (and lets be honest, most people who are obsessively into any niche hobby are probably a little weird, including all of us). For most people that weirdness is harmless, but obviously there are a small percentage of people who are actually crazy or dangerous.

So you could argue that craziness does play a part in the art they made, but does how their craziness manifests itself make the music more legitimate than say, a lad who's just socially awkward as fuck. I mean is Varg Vikernes more legit or more metal than Tom G Warrior? That's a no for my money, but we still apply the craziness of a guy like Varg's or Nodveidt's actions to their music.

Just on the mention of Nodtveidt. Despite the lads fixation on and strongly held belief in Satanism the music he created is fairly twee in comparison to his views and beliefs.

Stop, he is one of the very best to ever do it.

Oh don't get me wrong, I love Dissections music but to me there does seem to be a big disconnect between the views he espoused and the beautiful melodies in his music.

If we're playing this game,  the Old Funeral and (particularly) Thou Shalt Suffer eps are far more sinister and "evil"sounding than anything Burzum/Immortal and Emperor produced respectively. Likewise Absu up to V.I.T.R.I.O.L. versus their later stuff..Part of the reason BM got boring for me quickly was how tuneful a lot of the bm bands were at the time compared to death metal. Not what I wanted from metal at the time particularly given the big scary game these people were talking in interviews at the time.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I remember the transition from Morbid Angel to Burzum, Emperor, Darkthrone (particularly after the first album) and Mayhem (Wolfs Lair was out).

There was a significant (Seismic) change in the scene, in the 90's, some people in bands here in Ireland were travelling to European festivals and some travelled to find more underground elements. The ideas coming back and the contacts made drove (for some) a more extreme view which did cost some friendships. It was over 20 years before I recall talking to some people again. Our views had become different, some had become less tolerant of subgenres and more extreme. Politics did come into it. Then there were a few deaths oversees. Some people went to prison. Some got burnt out in Berlin (if you know what I am talking about here, you will know who and what I am speaking of). Places I couldn't go.

When we think of where metal came from, the dance / rave, political and religious run ins..... especially if you were young. You put up with a lot of societal noise. We were open minded and tolerant society wasn't! For some Darkness in music was political fanaticism expressed through Black Metal.

For those who kept and open mind it was a great experience to go to other cities and make new friends skipping the extreme.

The musical journey was fantastic. The world changed.

Years later I knew people who were getting tattoos removed, lamenting the loss of 20 years of friendship as maturity set in.

This journey continues......

I have notions of these stories from conversations with certain heads a bit older than me back in the day. Understand you don't want to get into it, but it is the flesh and blood of a scene most often idealized in abstract.

[Eoin McLove]

I would like to hear more details about all of that. Very intriguing.

[Pentagrimes]

That post read to me as a general summary of the time rather than anything specific to the Irish scene at the time. Might have misinterpreted it though.

[Eoin McLove]

Oh I read it as a reference to the local scene, which would be interesting to hear more about.

[DaveG]

What I've always found most fascinating with him was how he decided he had achieved what he has set out to do and ended it.
I can't fathom how he came to that way of thinking. Of course that's taking what has been written about him very literally.

Sure doesn't it say in the same book the biker gang (or whoever) he borrowed money off to put on the reunion show were coming round looking their money back.  I'd be taking the "achieved what he set out to do and ended it" with a healthy pinch of salt.

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[Blizzard Beast]

What I've always found most fascinating with him was how he decided he had achieved what he has set out to do and ended it.
I can't fathom how he came to that way of thinking. Of course that's taking what has been written about him very literally.

Sure doesn't it say in the same book the biker gang (or whoever) he borrowed money off to put on the reunion show were coming round looking their money back.  I'd be taking the "achieved what he set out to do and ended it" with a healthy pinch of salt.

Which book is that, Blood fire death ?I dont recall reading any reference to him oweing money in that book?
Was it legion of wolves or something like that that he was ivolved with but I did  read at the time of Jons death that guy vlad did influence his lyrical writing and idelogy views on the last album Reinkaos with all that LMO stuff.