Extreme fanaticism in (black) metal

[Eoin McLove]

I'm reading the most recent edition of Bardo Methodology and the theme seems to be centred on artists with an extreme approach to life as much as their art. Dangerous people who have enacted extreme violence upon themselves and others, and in some cases have spent time in prison for criminal activities.

There is a certain "romantic" view of black metal, and I'm guilty of it myself to a degree, which states that black metal isn't and cannot be authentic without the people involved engaging in deviant behavior of one kind or another. Self harm seems to have been a big thing at various times and among certain scenes with many practitioners terribly disfiguring themselves through bloodletting. Suicides seem not uncommon. Use of hard drugs. Spiritual adventures that can either be interpreted as opening portals to dark forces that compromise the soul, or deep and dark psychological breaks with reality. Naziism, far right and/or other extreme ideologies are seldom far away. 

Much of this kind of activity is considered by some to be central to the experience of being a young black metal devotee, exploring personal limits, and I can see the attraction of that sort of behavior as a rite of passage for young men of a certain mind set,  who perhaps haven't had a stable upbringing or are even just caught up in a form of peer pressure or social contagion.

What are people's views on these matters? Is it deluded to think that bands who sing about incredibly dark and destructive topics should act out their words? Is it a strength to push past social norms and go hard against the grain of your family's values and the expectations of those around you or is it more a case of young lads being too weak willed to back down from extreme forms of antisocial behavior in the face of their peer group with the associated expectations and demands?

Is spiritual struggle through asceticism admirable and monkish behavior that leads to inner growth and wisdom or is it more likely a representation of psychosis?

And perhaps regardless of your stance on any of those questions, do you still secretly like the fact that there is a small percentage of artists among us who dare to go the extra mile to create their art? Do their extracurricular activities make the listening experience feel more fraught with darkness and danger or is it completely irrelevant? Does music trump all of the above?

[hellfire]

Think we've covered Nazism and other unpleasantness ad nauseum on here.

Still, massive communist rant inbound in 5...4...3...

Think this one might be a full page 

[Eoin McLove]

I suppose it is likely to go that direction if we let it, but it's also at least possible to have an interesting discussion on the subject without all falling into our preordained roles.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Is it deluded to think that bands who sing about incredibly dark and destructive topics should act out their words? Is it a strength to push past social norms and go hard against the grain of your family's values and the expectations of those around you or is it more a case of young lads being too weak willed to back down from extreme forms of antisocial behavior in the face of their peer group with the associated expectations and demands?

Is spiritual struggle through asceticism admirable and monkish behavior that leads to inner growth and wisdom or is it more likely a representation of psychosis?

And perhaps regardless of your stance on any of those questions, do you still secretly like the fact that there is a small percentage of artists among us who dare to go the extra mile to create their art? Do their extracurricular activities make the listening experience feel more fraught with darkness and danger or is it completely irrelevant? Does music trump all of the above?

Very good questions! What's fascinating to me as a phenomenon is the fact of great art coming from so many different origins. It's fascinating to me that Varg, a murderer and often hate-filled racist in a way I find ludicrous and damnable, was nevertheless a channel for what I find to be achingly poignant music. I don't think I like Burzum more because of that fact, but it definitely does add something to the aesthetic experience whenever I think about the individual who created it. Put Peste Noire in the same category. It's not that far removed from, say, Mozart and the scatological humour found throughout his letters: it feels like that should be a disconnect, given the "angelic" beauty of some of his compositions. When it comes to art, embracing the full, sometimes seemingly paradoxical, complexity of the relationship between the artist and what they create can only enrich the experience, even if that means the deeper experience sometimes has an uncomfortable dimension to it. Inquisition, as another example, the music is the same, still has all the same purely sensory qualities I loved about it as before, but my experience while listening to it has absolutely changed since the revelations of his activities. And that experiential shift, and all the myriad facets of what impacts aesthetic experience, I am very much here for that.

[Eoin McLove]

Yes, there's something in it I think. On one hand you might say it takes a dangerous mind to create dangerous art. On the other hand you might say it is a bit naive to have your enjoyment of an art form influenced by the cult of personality behind its creation. But then, you could also argue that there is only subjective experience so everything that colours or enhances that emotional response is valid. Vital even!

[Eoin McLove]

Another element that could be considered is the LARPing nature of black metal in particular. I can see the ludicrous side of it but it is also possible to imagine that the physically acting out and inhabiting of these roles might act as a mental primer of sorts, a way to tap into whatever energy the artist is aiming for. From a spiritual or religious standpoint that might be accessing the supernatural but from a more mundane psychological viewpoint it might be tapping into the subconscious structures of the mind, where the shadows rule! Maybe it's the case that both things are true.

[astfgyl]

Good thread. I think some need to immerse themselves to get it going. Sort of method acting, whereas others just play their part and get in character for the stage act and little else. Both approaches have their merits but I would have been more drawn to the lads that walked the walk when I was a young fella and I think that's the crux of it really, being more impressionable and being somewhat drawn to the darker side of things.

Nowadays it doesn't seem so cool when a chap stands someone for being gay or kills themselves or sets fire to churches. Well it doesn't seem so cool to a lad in his forties bringing the kids on the school run before work and heading to hurling training for the evening. I still listen to stuff like that now not a bother but I don't get too into the characters behind it anymore.

Then again I can see how someone would lose themselves on stage with the thrill of it all and maybe go harming themselves or acting out violent impulses in the heat of the moment.

[Maggot Colony]

Good thread. I think some need to immerse themselves to get it going. Sort of method acting, whereas others just play their part and get in character for the stage act and little else. Both approaches have their merits but I would have been more drawn to the lads that walked the walk when I was a young fella and I think that's the crux of it really, being more impressionable and being somewhat drawn to the darker side of things.

Nowadays it doesn't seem so cool when a chap stands someone for being gay or kills themselves or sets fire to churches. Well it doesn't seem so cool to a lad in his forties bringing the kids on the school run before work and heading to hurling training for the evening. I still listen to stuff like that now not a bother but I don't get too into the characters behind it anymore.

Then again I can see how someone would lose themselves on stage with the thrill of it all and maybe go harming themselves or acting out violent impulses in the heat of the moment.

Thats exactly it. I remember being enthralled by stories about Glen Benton and Kerrang's coverage of the church burnings when I hadn't heard a note of the music. The Satanic aspect was especially alluring to me as a teenager trying to rebel. There was also an element of mystery to these bands that's been lost.

Listening to the likes of Burzum still gives me a thrill, and an element of that is definitely nostalgia for a time when I was drawn to the dangerous characters making the music, but nowadays I'm far more interested in the music than the antics.

I still find GG Allin fascinating though.
RIP GG

[Circlepit]

For me BM is one of the few the type of music that you can tell straight away when somebody genuinely believes with every fibre of those being the message they are trying to get across.

Nothing to do with politics and the far right far left topic in the other thread at all.
The artists that come across as genuinely invested in the music and the subject matter invoke a level of fear , intimidation and and a sense of awe. By that I mean there a few that if the occasion ever arose I wouldn't approach with even to say thank you for the music or whatever.
That comes across as being stupid but the point is they have an air of danger stay away.
Gaahl, Hoest, The Count. Those three alone seem unhinged. Please don't sit next to me on the bus kind of kind of way.
When I listen to Burzum and  it's one of the instrumentals I still get transfixed and lost in it.
It's like going on a journey. I know he is a violent person but still he draws you in.

[Eoin McLove]

Does the the unhinged nature of these peoples' personalities actually infuse their music with a tangible essence or do we use our knowledge of their characters to help colour our listening experience? Can normal people, whatever that means, create truly evil and dark music or can they only ever imitate? Should the creation of black metal music or satanic death metal be left to truly transgressive people? Should the rest of the metal world only ever be spectators?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You tell us ya big teddy bear 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The question reminds of something I do dislike though, or used to anyway: when bands who make dark music don't reflect that at all off stage, in interviews, etc.

[Circlepit]

Mora than likely for a lot of them we will never know how unhinged or how willing to kill, destroy or wreak genuine havoc these people are.
As violence comes in so many shapes and forms we can never truly know who get to create music about it.
I can't say for definite if I'd be as drawn to the likes of Burzum without the back story as I knew it before I knew the music.

Let's just say if you see his dead eyed stare or a young Glen Benton gurning at the camera you can tell straight away which one of them is more likely to eat your heart. 

Does that give Varg and his like the exclusive right to creating this type of extremely dark music? I don't think it does. It's all relative to our own experience and the person listening to it.  I don't mean to single out Burzum as an example but he in one of the most notorious so it's hard not to.

If my kids hear Chopped In Half they laugh and mimic that Tardy growl. If they hear Taake or Gjendød they get quite bothered by it.
I discovered Gjendød through one of your threads and they feel like they are on the edge. Particularly that last album. It's slower and more menacing yet strangely beautiful.
The photo from the first album screams we will eat you and your bones will never be found.

[Circlepit]

Also if a band keep everything behind the curtain it adds a level of intensity and dark drama that's hard to figure out. I don't know and have never met McLove or the other fella from Malthusian.
The first demo is the stuff of nightmares.
Then you read their posts and they seem like witty, clever people.

Do I think they are Satanic war generals ready for murder? No.
Does the early stuff they put out seem like the backdrop to insanity and violence? Yes.
Perspective and the person experiencing the art form decide which way it's received.

[Circlepit]

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