Extreme fanaticism in (black) metal

[Circlepit]

. Double post

[boozegeune]

Great question and pretty much gets to the root of black metal in my opinion.

I 'discovered' black metal at the age of 13, when Kerrang had a Norwegian black metal special issue that read like a Woman's Own; all scandal, controversy and transgression. It detailed the church burnings the satanism and murders and had profiles of all the main characters involved, as well as a small selection of recommended 'essential' second wave tracks.

Funny to think of now and I dearly wish I still had the magazine, but I would say without doubt that the controversy, outlandish behaviour and socially unacceptable nature of the scene as described is exactly what pulled me in, as a 13 year old boy.
I think I illegally downloaded a handful of tracks right away and one of them was Emperors Inno A Satana, and that was that, life trajectory changed.

I have more thoughts on this but I need to ruminate on it for a while.

[Eoin McLove]

You tell us ya big teddy bear 

It's something I think about. I have dabbled a little bit here and there but I think I might have too much of an agnostic personality to create an all-in black metal band. Who knows, I might do it one day and it might be good. But will it be authentic if I'm not a practicing Satanist, self harmer, criminal...

[astfgyl]

Does the the unhinged nature of these peoples' personalities actually infuse their music with a tangible essence or do we use our knowledge of their characters to help colour our listening experience? Can normal people, whatever that means, create truly evil and dark music or can they only ever imitate? Should the creation of black metal music or satanic death metal be left to truly transgressive people? Should the rest of the metal world only ever be spectators?

I think it's the latter mostly but only about 51/49.

[John Kimble]

First proper black metal album I ever heard was In the Nightside Eclipse when I was 14. It wasn't the kind of metal I was into at the time, and it probably took another four or so years before I properly appreciated it, but even then I thought it sounded truly evil and other-worldly. The Kerrang article at the time probably heightened the mystique surrounding it, but it was the sound rather than the backstory that grabbed my attention at the time.

I'm in two minds about some of those Bardo interviews. On the one hand, I prefer black metal to take itself seriously. On the other, the way some of those lads carry on is a bit cringe. I mean, are you really evil? A true misanthrope? Or are you a grown adult who's just a bit socially awkward and cultivating this persona? From a personal perspective, I've worked enough years in the emergency services to know what an evil person looks like, and more often than not it's a scrote in a Canada Goose jacket as opposed to someone wearing spikes and a bullet belt. 

[Eoin McLove]

Interesting perspective.

My opinion is divided as always. When I think of these dudes cutting themselves, I mean really going for it like the Reverorum ib Malacht dude talks about in Bardo, I think that there is something dangerous and unhinged in it. To willfully harm yourself in that way is not only taboo but it must take a certain amount of focus and will power to cross that line. I also think it's kind of a trend and, perhaps not that guy specifically, but many of these sorts of people are so far into the subculture that to be taken seriously by their friends they have to perform in that way and from that perspective it seems like the opposite of will power. It seems weak and callow. But then those who don't 'go all the way' yet espouse Nietzsche as an influence or claim to despise humanity or to be a devil worshiper seem weak and unconvincing. Having all of the academic acumen but none of the transgressive behavior can be read in this context as being a bit of a poser.

Hah. Paradox upon paradox.

[ldj]

I think weird art is generally made by weird people (and lets be honest, most people who are obsessively into any niche hobby are probably a little weird, including all of us). For most people that weirdness is harmless, but obviously there are a small percentage of people who are actually crazy or dangerous.

So you could argue that craziness does play a part in the art they made, but does how their craziness manifests itself make the music more legitimate than say, a lad who's just socially awkward as fuck. I mean is Varg Vikernes more legit or more metal than Tom G Warrior? That's a no for my money, but we still apply the craziness of a guy like Varg's or Nodveidt's actions to their music.

[Eoin McLove]

Absolutely. Those actions are inextricable from the art because,  at least in the case of black metal, burning churches and killing one's  perceived enemies or comnitting suicide is kind of close to living out what is being promoted philosophically through the art.

[Circlepit]

I am not subscribed to Bardo so I can't comment on that person.

It does seem that some of the people involved in extreme music particularly Black Metal are more open about their interest in the darker side of things and for want of a better word evil.

When I read the three Cult Never Dies books about BM it almost became a chore as so many interviews ended up with  same mantra.
Everyone and everything is shit.
Would these musicians still express themselves without the BM vehicle?
Probably. If it's in you then you have to let it out.

[open face surgery]

Then you read their posts and they seem like witty, clever people.

We're not. It's all part of the facade.

[Circlepit]

Then you read their posts and they seem like witty, clever people.

We're not. It's all part of the facade.

But the facade is what makes it all the more compelling.

[Bürggermeister]

I'll start by saying black metal has never resonated with me at all. I've tried, I've a load of albums, many of them acknowledged as classics of the genre, based on recommendations in this and the previous forum, which just do nothing for me. I've listened, but I just don't get it. C'est la vie.

I was going to keep a respectful distance from replying as the allure of the music is something I just don't resonate with, but the mention of Tom G Warrior dragged me in. I remember, as a kid, picking up Morbid Tales in 1988 in Abbey Discs. I was 13. I had a C90 with To Mega Therion on one side which a mate of mine had copied for me. I fucking loved it. The pics on the back of Morbid Tales, particularly Ain and Priestly, looked fucking demented to young me. It was the first time I had ever seen these guys. It felt dangerous picking up, that fucking front cover. I knew absolutley nothing about them other than what I heard on To Mega Therion and what I was holding in my hands, so I bought it. When I got home, the intro, Human, sounded haunting, genuinely disturbing, and I fucking loved it. Still, I knew nothing about any of them and, when I picked up Cold Lake when it came out a few months later, it was confusing that the same guys could make this very different music 

Despite not getting on with the music, the general shenanigans of black metal is quite interesting. I've read a lot, know most of the characters and their tales. I wonder how much of it is the artists feeling they need to be acknowledged as dangerous, so intentionally set out to be seen as such? Is it an Ouroborosian self-feeding thing where, knowing they need to be more outrageous and "trve" than what had gone before, the subsequent generations went further and deeper into something they were not mentally equipped to deal with as kids? They all got into it young and, speaking as an old belligerent cunt now, I acknowledge I was a fucking tool as a teenager. The whole thing has changed from what I grew up with in the 80's, though. I used to buy albums based on a t-shirt someone wore in a picture in a magazine or album sleeve. It was a blissful ignorance. You know what I mean? There was a time where all you knew about music was what you held in your hands and what you heard in your ears. You didn't know the back story, just the music and what was presented on the album sleeve. It was easier to appear dangerous and mysterious back then. The advent of knowing everything about everybody started around mid-90's and ties in with the advent of the Norwegian stuff, in a way.

I suppose the point is I knew a lot about Euronymous and Varg before I heard them and was probably at the age where it seemed like a bunch of arsehole kids trying to outdo each other, which may have turned me off the music before I ever heard it. I think they were conscious of their notoriety too, played up to it and, of course, those who followed in their wake knew people knew, if you know what I mean. The changing landscape around what people knew, from the 80's to the 90's to the 00's, about the guys on the album sleeve meant you couldn't just look demented, you had to have tales of demented acts accompany you. Kids these days grow up in public through social media, The black metal lads also grew up in public, somewhat, through the notoriety of the acts which made the likes of Kerrang take notice. Did they dive further into it because they truly believed in it or because they knew it would make people take notice, whether they realised it not not? With that, I'll respectfully piss off.

[Bürggermeister]

I suppose as an appendix, I met Glenn Benton outside McGonagles when Deicide played their first Irish gig in 1990, when the scabs in his forehead were still fresh. He had come across as an evil cunt in the interviews I had read and that first album is fucking ferocious to this day, but he was a really nice fella in person, quite humble that people were coming to see the band so far away from his home. He was just a kid from Florida and they played without the armour, meat or any of the bullshit (or even a support band) and were stll fucking incredible. I realised you can be sound and play evil sounding music, that a lot of it was just young lads playing at being cunts which may have skewed my ability to digest Varg and Noitvedt, etc. Why can't we all get along? 

[astfgyl]

I suppose as an appendix, I met Glenn Benton outside McGonagles when Deicide played their first Irish gig in 1990, when the scabs in his forehead were still fresh. He had come across as an evil cunt in the interviews I had read and that first album is fucking ferocious to this day, but he was a really nice fella in person, quite humble that people were coming to see the band so far away from his home. He was just a kid from Florida and they played without the armour, meat or any of the bullshit (or even a support band) and were stll fucking incredible. I realised you can be sound and play evil sounding music, that a lot of it was just young lads playing at being cunts which may have skewed my ability to digest Varg and Noitvedt, etc. Why can't we all get along? 

Funnily enough I met Benton myself outside The Village when they played there and he was not at all what I'd have thought in terms of personality. Not standoffish at all

[open face surgery]

Ya, I met him at that Village gig as well and the minute I heard him talk in his normal yank accent all the evil disappeared. 😄