Controversial Metal Opinions

[Sworntothecans]

Sure they are all fannies compared to Venom anyway lads.   

Cronos 'n' Mantas versus the Hoffman Brothers in a steel cage!

  My money is on the Geordies. "Reet bad lads" 

Steve Asheim pulls a gun, Cronos knocks him out with a Newkie Brown bottle!

[mickO)))]

For me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.

[Ducky]

For me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.

Symbolic was supposed to be Death's last album, Chuck only gave Nuclear Blast The Sound of Perseverance under the Death name in order to get Control Denied out the door with them (indeed, a few TSoP songs were originally CD songs).

Death were long done before he died, and he already released a new album from his new creative endeavour (and had some of the bones of their second one). So it's impossible to know if Death would have sat dormant in perpetuity, or if he'd have pulled a Billy Corgan with Zwan/Smashing Pumpkins.

I personally don't like Control Denied. The music is cool, but he clearly didn't know how to write for clean vocals.

[The Wretch]

The Sound Of Perseverance is great, I really don't get people's issue with it at all. Is it as powerful as Leprosy, or as well crafted and forward looking for it's time as Human? No. Is it packed with excellent metal songs, and brilliant musicianship? Absolutely. I still get goosebumps when I hear Evil Chuck sing "Spirr-ett, Crushaaggggggh!" 

And 'Flesh And The Power It Holds', 'Scavenger Of Human Sorrow', 'Voice Of The Soul.? Come on!  It's only the pointless Painkiller cover that lets it down.

Regardless of how Chuck felt about it himself, I think it's a cracker.

[open face surgery]

That pointless Painkiller cover got me into Priest so all good.

[The Wretch]

Well, I suppose it did serve a purpose so. More Priest fans is always a win.

[jobrok1]

The Sound Of Perseverance is indeed great. I find myself listening to it more than the other albums in the years since he died.

[Ducky]

The Sound Of Perseverance is great, I really don't get people's issue with it at all. Is it as powerful as Leprosy, or as well crafted and forward looking for it's time as Human? No. Is it packed with excellent metal songs, and brilliant musicianship? Absolutely. I still get goosebumps when I hear Evil Chuck sing "Spirr-ett, Crushaaggggggh!" 

And 'Flesh And The Power It Holds', 'Scavenger Of Human Sorrow', 'Voice Of The Soul.? Come on!  It's only the pointless Painkiller cover that lets it down.

Regardless of how Chuck felt about it himself, I think it's a cracker.

Yeah I love it too (especially Spirit Crusher, and A Moment of Clarity is my favourite Death song).

Also agree with Open Face Surgery - that cover of Painkiller is what got me into Priest! 

[Ducky]

The lyrics on the early stuff aren't old hat, they are timeless satanic death metal. Are you comparing it to DSO or what? That highly cerebral, metaphysical, philosophical approach is grand, it has its place too, but I'm far more convinced by simple evil lyrics these days. They are the ones that hold up over time.

In the 80s and 90s merely being explicitly satanic was considered taboo. It was taken seriously as being threatening to the moral fabric of society. Nothing is taboo anymore- the genie is out of the bottle and everyone knows fucking everything and is burnt out at 25. I think you're confusing the mindset of the millennium with that which came before. It was in many ways a more innocent time, so simply attacking this monolith called Christianity, which still had a firm grip on the day to day lives of people, was rebellious. It might seem cartoonish from the perspective of where black metal lyrics have evolved to, but in many ways it remains a much more potent force. Reading reams of lyrics that baffle you unless you go and study theology can set a certain interesting atmosphere no doubt, but it can't quite compete with a punch in the face like Sacrificial Suicide or lyrics like "Open the door Jehova you whore", which remain brutal and timeless. 

Defo not comparing to DSO, though there's obviously as much (if not more) of a market for Deicide's Big Mac vs. DSO's steak.

When I discovered Deicide is a big factor (very much at the start of the new millennium), plus I was allowed to embrace my atheist (non)beliefs by age 12, so reading and hearing Deicide lyrics at age 18 was a bit pantomime. Again, the lyrics of something like Angel of Death felt far more shocking as it was something that actually happened to real people (and having Araya deliver them as clean vocal hooks makes them more impactful, IMO).

In a way I was shielded from a lot of religion as a kid - my folks were both born in 1943, experienced some of the nastiness first-hand (me Ma used to get the shite slapped out of her by the nuns for being left-handed), so they realised that pushing Catholicism onto their kids wasn't something worth doing.

So the result is it has coloured my perception in that I do forget how much of a yoke it had on society as recently as the 80s and 90s. One only needs to look at people losing their minds when Sinead O'Connor ripped up the picture of the pope. Condoms were illegal here until what, 1985?

So yeah, I guess a band landing on your stereo in 1990 spitting those lyrics from a dude branded with an inverted crucifix probably was genuinely shocking, and a true counter-culture moment.

[mickO)))]

For me the only Death stuff that can touch the first four Deicide is Scream Blood Gore and the demos. I always put Death in the same camp as Obituary very good but overrated. Given the direction Death where going in before Chuck passed I can only imagine the crap they would be releasing today. Some could argue the same about Deicide even though the last two albums have been great.

Symbolic was supposed to be Death's last album, Chuck only gave Nuclear Blast The Sound of Perseverance under the Death name in order to get Control Denied out the door with them (indeed, a few TSoP songs were originally CD songs).

Death were long done before he died, and he already released a new album from his new creative endeavour (and had some of the bones of their second one). So it's impossible to know if Death would have sat dormant in perpetuity, or if he'd have pulled a Billy Corgan with Zwan/Smashing Pumpkins.

I personally don't like Control Denied. The music is cool, but he clearly didn't know how to write for clean vocals.

I wouldn't be mad on later Death mainly the last 4 they are good for what they are but not my type of thing. I did really enjoy those Death To All gigs about 10 years ago the first show covered the first four albums then they came for a second show that was only the last four albums both shows were really good. The Left To Die show was also great. Death To All have been touring the US again be great to see them come back here and it would give me an excuse to give to later Death albums a listen again.

The Gruesome material is decent enough. I really like they way they have the earlier Death style artwork and lyrical themes for the songs.

[Bürggermeister]

I enjoyed the novelty of Gruesome when they came put but, as they went on, I just wondered why I wasn't just listening to the real thing instead of pretendy-Death.

[mickO)))]

Did Gruesome play in Ireland before?

[Bürggermeister]

I reviewed the Spiritual Healing one for MI and was quite savage about it, principally because every time their riff was a little too close to a real Death riff, it pulled me out of their song and had me thinking about the Death song instead. It was a jarring listen, hard to just sit back and enjoy.

That being said, the two lads were spot-on at the Left to Die gig.

[Trev]

Did Gruesome play in Ireland before?

They were meant to play with Krisiun a few years back but got cancelled with the pandemic. Don't think they've been back since

[mickO)))]

Did Gruesome play in Ireland before?

They were meant to play with Krisiun a few years back but got cancelled with the pandemic. Don't think they've been back since

Was that the gig with Deicide playing Legion in full headlining? I don't remember Gruesome being on that.
They definitely haven't played here since the only time Matt Harvey was in Ireland since the pandemic was the Left to Die gig.