The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Caomhaoin]

I've just seen an article on US school having to put up an official apology for serving fried chicken and watermelon for lunch during the black history month. Jesus christ on a bike, what's happening in the movie Idiocracy is not in our future, we are living it right now.

Black History Month. MONTH. What about Chinese history month? Or Gypsy History month. So fucking demented.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The reality of the situation is that the anti-immigrant movement is run through with xenophobic rhetoric and that this is no accident. In one sense, it does make no difference whether you say Somalis or Africans. What's important to the xenophobe is that people get it deeply into their heads that the reason they are rioting is not because they are stacked on top of each other, 800+ in a place designed to accommodate 300, but because they're from Africa and therefore "animals", or whatever. But psychologically, if it's stated that they're specifically Somalis or specifically Nigerians, or whatever, it makes it sound like there is a higher level of factual basis and credibility to the claim, like someone has "done their own research" and found this out, cos you won't hear it in the MSM, yadda yadda yadda yadda. Keep people focused on the racial aspect, that's the intent, that's the dog whistle, and that's what those with reasonable arguments should be wise to. Reasonable arguments about immigration have no need to evoke a racial aspect and would be much more strategically effective if they didn't.

[Caomhaoin]

Your last point is absolutely right.

Personally I'd be giving it large in exactly the same way if they were Ukrainians or Chinese or whomever. It's the ungratefulness of these lads that rile most people up rather than their colour or any other inimitable feature. If it's not the lap of luxury they were expecting, they can go and take a good fuck to themselves, they are not entitled to that.

Xenophobia has been a feature of human nature since we've wallowed in the shite with the animals. We've moved on, but you can't expect everyone to simply accept massive numbers of outsiders being transported into their midst with a shrug of the shoulders. That's doubly true when they start acting the prick.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

My last point is absolutely right, yet in your list of "reasonable arguments" two out of three just happened to have an explicit racial aspect.

And it's not the ungratefulness of "these lads" that rile most people up. It's the way the narrative is spun that riles most people up. That's how it works!

"Minor property damage to furniture and minor injuries to a small number of individuals following unrest that broke out in severely overcrowded temporary accommodation"
vs
"Somalis trash hotel they are housed in"

Hmm, I wonder which of those two framings is more likely to rile people up? And if I was, say, an absolute racist cunt whose primary intention was to stoke xenophobia far and wide (referring to the Twitter accounts I saw spinning this narrative), I wonder which I'd choose. A real fucking head-scratcher, eh?

[Caomhaoin]

Afghanis hassle women. Somalis(apparently) are the ones who trashed/rioted in a city hotel. What's the racial aspect to either point, only that their nationality was pointed out? In any case, it would be implicit, rather than explicit if it existed at all).

If a journalist pointed out that they were Ukrainian, would that be a 'racial' issue, them being mainly slavs and all? Or are all white people (them being a monolithic bloc with no difference apart from the obvious evilness) exempt from racism?

Or should that information remain privileged? I'd rather the truth, personally.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If a room full of men were filmed throwing chairs and bottles at each other, with no means of telling anything more precise about their origin, but someone, giving no further basis for the claim, framed the video as "Ukrainians trash hotel they are housed in," then yes, that would be making it racial. And anyone with their wits about them would wonder about the factual basis for the claim, especially if the source making it was known to, for example, want Ukrainian refugees to be sent away to such an extent that it could be reasonably suspected that they may well fabricate details in order to win more people to and thereby strengthen their own position. Is that not obvious?

And just to repeat the main point: the reason for the riots is infinitely more likely to stem from the conditions of accommodation than from the origin, Somalia or anywhere else, of the individuals involved. That is the point Kev. That is the point.

[Caomhaoin]

Ah here fuck this.

Hambeast, please ban both myself and the other contributor to this stream of shite for a couple of days to let the other users breath the fresh air and not the noxious fumes of cat piss coming from this thread today.

[warhead]

Ah here fuck this.

Hambeast, please ban both myself and the other contributor to this stream of shite for a couple of days to let the other users breath the fresh air and not the noxious fumes of cat piss coming from this thread today.

It is a great craic listening 2 fellas argument over this, while both of yiz are living outside of Ireland   
Think the situation with immigrants has gotten out of hand in Ireland. It is sooooo much different than, not just 6 years ago when I've moved over here, but to just a 2 or even 1 year ago.
Guess not too many locals are disputing having regular, decent people over here, but the problem is that at least 80% of immigrants are here just because they've imagined to have an easy life and are owed to get everything handed to them on a silver plate for free.....while still complaining, not respecting the country and ganging up.
The pakis and blacks I've met over here are not too civilized and an insult to the humanity.
The government should take care of their own first, and think of the foreigners only after that, if there's any resources left.
Ireland is fucking far away from Africa and Ukraine, isn't it a bit weird so many of them settled here?
I'm off to listen to my Satanic Warmaster vinyl now......

[Caomhaoin]

When most of us were young, Warhead, the only foreigners living in Ireland were the lads running the Chinese takeaways

Montenegrins have it sussed. Get all the tourists into Kotor bay and fleece them. Actually heard an old woman say 'Strani momci'! to her husband when I was in Podgorica with a buddy speaking English, so odd was it. That's the place to escape WEF and globalisation

[ldj]

An immigrant complaining about other immigrants,fuck sake .

Get rid of every immigrant in Ireland and our Government still won't give a fuck about housing the people who live here (Irish or not).

The state of this country is down to neglect by FF/FG, it's not down to a lack of resources, it's not down to immigrants coming and taking it all, it's by design to create a bigger gap between the working class and the elites.

And pointing the finger, whether at immigrants, people on the dole, people receiving free healthcare, people supposedly 'stealing' anything from you, is the perfect cover so you don't point the finger at them.

Lyndon B Johnson had a quote that is pretty much the M.O of right wing politics, except you can replace the white man/black man analogy for literally anyone in the working classes receiving something you aren't.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.".

[astfgyl]

Yes we must hold the government to account for their open door policies rather than the folks taking advantage of it. The only problem is that the main opposition party has exactly the same policies in mind regarding immigration, so holding the government to account on that basis and voting for the opposition will produce the same results anyway. Now the shinners might get in and implement some sort of policies that make the country a better place or they may not but they're not going to change the migration issue so going for them on that is pointless.

Does this mean that immigration then is a non issue in any forthcoming election? In a way it seems so.

[hellfire]

You have one radical party and one smaller party to choose from. Neither will be forming part of the next government.

[warhead]

An immigrant complaining about other immigrants,fuck sake .

Get rid of every immigrant in Ireland and our Government still won't give a fuck about housing the people who live here (Irish or not).

The state of this country is down to neglect by FF/FG, it's not down to a lack of resources, it's not down to immigrants coming and taking it all, it's by design to create a bigger gap between the working class and the elites.

And pointing the finger, whether at immigrants, people on the dole, people receiving free healthcare, people supposedly 'stealing' anything from you, is the perfect cover so you don't point the finger at them.

Lyndon B Johnson had a quote that is pretty much the M.O of right wing politics, except you can replace the white man/black man analogy for literally anyone in the working classes receiving something you aren't.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.".

Governments are never working to make lives of ordinary people better, that is an old fact. They are the biggest problem, guess all "sides" have the same standpoint on this issue.
I am not sure why are you so flabbergasted that an immigrant is complaining about other immigrants? I am not complaining about immigrants as a group in general, I am complaining about immigrants coming to this or any other country not to do an honest work, but to mooch and leach. I got a natural repulsion towards that as I'm not a cockroach, don't see why shouldn't I be free to say that?
Seems like all "sides" are just interested who will point the biggest problem. There are problems all over the board.
Yes, the government is probably the biggest problem, but that shouldn't stop everyone pointing other problems too. Me being an immigrant myself shouldn't forbid me to point out problems within that "group", the same way someone being Irish for example shouldn't forbid him/her to point out problems within that "group".
Caomhaoin and Black Shepherd Carnage are living outside of Ireland if I'm not wrong, but am sure both of them are living decent lives, doing their respected lines of work and any country should be happy to have them as they are a benefit to it. There are a lot of other people like that, black, white yellow and red. Then there are other kinds, that I am pointing out as a problem.......biggest or not the biggest, but a problem.
I am not labeling myself as an immigrant, am not considering that fact to be the most important in describing myself as a person. But let's say I'm an immigrant for the sake of conversation, I was also a refugee as a 14 year old boy when there was a war in my country, my house got burned down and my family had to run for our lives with just a small plastic bag of our belongings in our hands. So, I kind of consider myself to have enough experience and right to talk about some things freely.
There will always be people running away from war and they should get help to stand back on their feet, but what Ireland is having at the moment is mostly just not that. I stand by what I've said, at least 80% of the immigrants/refugees you have in the country right now are not here to escape the war/whatever, but to leech. And that is making problems for honest people who might find themselves in a tough spot in the future, as local people might consider them all to be the same.

[Caomhaoin]

Jebote! Dobro rečeno, brate moj

(Excuse my shitty serbo-croat)

[warhead]

Jebote! Dobro rečeno, brate moj

(Excuse my shitty serbo-croat)

Guess you've said it in perfect Serbian/Croatian