The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[hellfire]

I'm not sure how often you get home BSC. I'm sure you've heard about it without having lived it. People are really struggling here. You can't expect people not to react to people from abroad being housed when they are not. All these extraneous measures that are bring used to house refugees are the same measures people have been begging for the last ten years or so. People on low incomes are being driven to their wits end. The country is at breaking point. Anyone earning less than 40k a year is in a very precarious position at the moment.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Which of the above events are "Somalis" specifically responsible for?

I'm not sure how often you get home BSC. I'm sure you've heard about it without having lived it. People are really struggling here. You can't expect people not to react to people from abroad being housed when they are not. All these extraneous measures that are bring used to house refugees are the same measures people have been begging for the last ten years or so. People on low incomes are being driven to their wits end. The country is at breaking point. Anyone earning less than 40k a year is in a very precarious position at the moment.

I'm absolutely sympathetic to this. But, as I said, typically speaking those who promise to stop immigration and look after nationals just don't give much of a fuck about anybody who needs help, regardless of their origin.

[hellfire]

A tighter immigration policy solves a lot of the supply and demand problem. Tightening up on economic migrants would free up a lot of space. Up until last year the asylum process accounted for a very small amount of total immigration. Removing access to welfare for anyone who has not worked for five years since they arrived would also help enormously. Social housing should be restricted to Irish citizens. I'm not incredibly concerned about the motivations of whoever does it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

What you should be concerned about is the integrity of those promising to do it.

[hellfire]

Why so?

[Caomhaoin]

Well it was principally Somalis who tore up the City West a few weeks ago.

So Somalis are responsible for that. Sorry, 'Somalis'.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well it was principally Somalis who tore up the City West a few weeks ago.

As I said, I'm not going to take anyone's word on this. And the videos I personally saw contained nothing to suggest a specific nationality being the principal protagonists. If you have something solid, please provide. Otherwise, your claim that blaming it on Somalis is a reasonable argument is not reasonable at all.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Why so?

Why be concerned about the integrity of people promising to solve all your woes by concentrating on a scape-goat rather than positive action they're already doing for you? Oh, I dunno, because human history in general?

[Caomhaoin]

Well if you'd like we can substitute the word Somali for African? I mean you can see from the videos it's not a traveller wedding or a junior B GAA team losing the run of themselves after being told the bar was closing.

[hellfire]

I'm more concerned with what's happening now rather than what now than 80 years ago. You know, like a large unaccountable organisation overriding the will of the citizens of my country based on an ideology which reeks very strongly of communism/socialism. That sort of thing.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well if you'd like we can substitute the word Somali for African? I mean you can see from the videos it's not a traveller wedding or a junior B GAA team losing the run of themselves after being told the bar was closing.

Okay, so we have to back pedal one step because, as I guess you just found out, there doesn't seem to be any credible reason to claim it was principally Somalis. Were they all Africans? Again, I don't know. Plenty of pale skin in the videos I saw, could be from any number of places, including eastern Europe and/or Ukraine. Do you have anything credible at all regarding where the principal protagonists are from? And would you be willing to say where you got your initial idea from that they were indeed specifically Somalis and so it shouldn't be a problem to say so? I did see the claim made on social media, but the sources I saw it coming from weren't exactly what I'd call "reasonable" individuals.

[Caomhaoin]

The media, as you must know, are never going to report on a riot by immigrants, especially in a Dublin hotel, much less disclose the nationality of those involved.

So, mainstream news outlets aside, who do you want to confirm this to you? The truth of the matter is plainly visible (if not what their identity papers say), but that truth is unpalatable to you. It's as simple as that. Your desperation for proof that they are, in fact, Somalis shows this.

The only pale-faces in the videos I've seen are onlookers, paramedics and Garda.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Somalis are housed in hotels which they subsequently trash

This was the initial truth you presented as the kind of "reasonable argument" that would get someone unjustifiably tarred and feathered.

Turns out it may well get you tarred and feathered, but only because if pressed on where the notion came from, it seems it'll ultimately lead back to some fairly unreasonable sources. That's all I was saying to begin; that as far as I've seen, anyone getting tarred and feathered is doing it to themselves via association with unreasonable sources from the far right that they should, even if only strategically speaking, be actively trying to distance themselves from if they actually want to demonstrate that their arguments are reasonable rather than ultimately motivated by racism or xenophobia.

What "truth" you're now trying to say is unpalatable to me, I don't know. Do you think I think people of African origin never commit crimes or are incapable of starting a riot? I'm talking about the extent of far right propaganda and dog-whistling within the anti-immigrant protest movement. That there is a genuinely proactive far right propaganda network whose aim is to plant bullshit in the minds of individuals of precisely your kind of sensibility, I can understand that that truth might be unpalatable to you.

[warhead]

I've just seen an article on US school having to put up an official apology for serving fried chicken and watermelon for lunch during the black history month. Jesus christ on a bike, what's happening in the movie Idiocracy is not in our future, we are living it right now.

[Caomhaoin]

You've seen the videos of immigrants housed there turning the place upside down. Again, the 'indo' or whatever it is you judge to be a creditable source are never going to give you the whole picture.

So, in the highly unlikely event that the person who filmed the incident has something against Somalis in particular, and if, as you yourself claim, they are housed in city hotels, I fail to see the logic in labelling them as Somalis rather than Africans or any other group unless they were.

In any case, they are clearly immigrants behaving badly. Can I verify with my contact in Reuters that they are, in fact, Somalis? No. So you can have that one. Harping on and on about it rather than accept the reality of the situation is making the pair of us spend more time typing out shite on the phone.

Who are these shadowy right wing fanatics? Can you confirm their existence? Garda files etc? Sure there are lads who are on the extreme end of things in there. You, as usual, underestimate my intellect and others who think differently to you, and imply that unapproved thoughts, or worse, unauthorised 'misinformation' spreading only come organically to mindless fanatics before being dripfed to emptyheaded dullards from broken homes.