The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

You're calling him a Bible bashing prick where on the other side of the fence you'll have people doing the same to the trans women. And you'll have what the other side consider mooks tapping away in support the trans movement. How does your comment help anything other than stroking Ochoill's feelings with your agreement?

Getting away from the question though. It shouldn't matter that he and his family are knobs.

I don't support Burke's position at all but as usual there's an actual discussion in between the poles, which I've attempted to bring on here but no-one will touch it, which helps nothing.

Getting away from the question though. It shouldn't matter that he and his family are knobs.

I don't think I understand your question though?

At what stage do you think he was discriminated against?

(Also I didn't know what thread to put the Justin article in, what a legend, but thought you might like it https://www.loudersound.com/features/godfleshs-justin-broadrick-my-life-in-10-songs)

I don't think he was discriminated against personally, but that's his argument and I'm having a go at trying to get to the bottom of the debate, because one exists. Trying to find the middle ground between the extremes because I don't subscribe fully to either view.

Sound for the jkb shout, I was sent it by Ochoill the other day and forgot to get on it. Looking forward to the read.

You're saying imagine the pain of being trans but no-one wants to think of the pain of being Enoch Burke.

Enoch can have his day in court if he so wishes. That hasn't been denied. He's in jail because he defied the terms of an injunction.

That part was my attempt at lightening the tone with a joke was all

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The kid isn't bashing anyone. Bashing is the operative word here, geddit?

[hellfire]

I don't think this is the hill you want to die on astfgyl. We never got to see where in employment law all this fits. I won't bore everyone by rehashing my opinions on the sudden outbreak of gender dysphoria, suffice to say I won't be putting any time or effort into relearning English. A proper test case will come at some point and I'd reserve judgement until it does.

[pete]

All that quoting looks a mess on my phone anyway astfgly.. I might just agree to disagree 

[astfgyl]

I'll die on no hill, I'm ideologically fluid as it happens. I get what you're saying though and I look forward to the test case myself..

I'll give this one more go, here's the questions I asked if anyone wants to have a go at answering them.

Should people who want to change their name be forced to do so legally before another person is forced to refer to them as that name, on pain of suspension from their job (because the prison bit is entirely of his own making, I think we can all see that)?

How far is too far when forcing others to comply with one's dysphoria? Where would you personally draw the line?

Has Burke equal right not to be discriminated against for his religious beliefs as the student has not to be discriminated for their sexuality, and how would you break the impasse in such a situation?

It's easy hide behind the "that's the law" aspect of things, but how would you feel if the law was against homosexuality or abortion? You'd be saying the law is a load of shit instead of avoiding the meat in the discussion by hiding behind it.


And Pete, I tried fixing it but it was a mess so I gave up. Sound for the link, we have found common ground 😃

[pete]

https://twitter.com/NoonanJoe/status/1567541294389395456?s=19

[pete]

Should people who want to change their name be forced to do so legally before another person is forced to refer to them as that name, on pain of suspension from their job (because the prison bit is entirely of his own making, I think we can all see that)?

I know I said I'd leave it.

I think he wasn't suspended for what you think he was?

Why do you think he was suspended from the school and can you link to it?

[astfgyl]

I think he was suspended with pay pending the outcome of the investigation because of the situation between him and the student in question. I think he's in prison for an entirely different reason which is his completely unreasonable behaviour in the aftermath, concluding with breaching of a court injunction. I'll have to go looking for links I only read about it somewhere yesterday on a link on Twitter. Have I got it wrong?

[pete]

I think you have it wrong yes.

From what I read it wasn't due to a "situation between him and the student in question".

But if you find something to back that up I'd be interested in reading it. Thanks.

[astfgyl]

Cool I'll have a look there now

[astfgyl]

https://www.thejournal.ie/high-court-injunction-teacher-westmeath-pronouns-5853324-Aug2022/

I fully understand that he's not in jail for refusing to use someone's pronouns. I do think that story backs up my thoughts on it rather than refutes them though. I thought he was suspended for his stance on the student's self identity.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Transgenderism, he said, was contrary to scripture, and that in this instance he would "only obey God," and would "not obey man".

If it makes it easier for you, imagine a Muslim teacher in Ireland who refused to teach a girl because she wasn't covering her arms, legs, and hair, and he thought that because of this she was acting against the will of Allah. He might have just as much moral conviction and certitude about this position as Burke does about transgenderism, but if he started acting like Burke, harassing people and giving impromptu public sermons in front of the whole school about why the girl should be covered up, then the school would be in their right to suspend him too. Under the eyes of the law, this case with Burke is exactly the same. If I started saying, "Okay, so the girl doesn't have to cover up, but what if she came in naked, would that be okay? Where do you draw the line?", you would feel like I was just being silly, despite the greater existence of naturists than people with "species dysphoria" (not even recognized in the DSM). So, yeah, that line of questioning, about cats and dogs, etc., is just as silly.

[astfgyl]

Quote
Transgenderism, he said, was contrary to scripture, and that in this instance he would "only obey God," and would "not obey man".

So you believe something different to what he believes?

Well done, burn the witch so good man yourself

[astfgyl]

How did you get on with those few questions I asked anyone for their opinion on but so far no-one took me up on, or did you have any thoughts around those at all?

Accountability is 10/10 of the law these days.

[Eoin McLove]

the pain of being Enoch Burke.

That's it, I'm writing a concept album!

"Trans Hunger"