The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[astfgyl]

Yeah he's a fool no doubt. I have a question though, how far does one take it in addressing people how they want to be addressed. What if a student identified as a dog or cat and insisted on being referred to as such (insert crazy pronoun here)? Like is there a list of things one can identify as, and acceptable pronouns?

Playing devil's advocate here a bit because the other question is why didn't Burke just call them by their actual name and avoid the pronoun wanker game? The first question still stands looking for an answer though, how far is too far?

Probably sees himself as some sort of martyr for the cause but then again I bet so does the student in question.

Fuck the both of the bullshitting bastards.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Ask a silly worn-out whataboutism question, get a sensible answer:

https://assets.gov.ie/25063/a6e913a466344dce9530ce261b41d6c5.pdf

The nine grounds on which discrimination is prohibited are
• gender,
• marital status,
• family status,
• sexual orientation,
• religion,
• age,
• disability,
• race and
• membership of the Traveller community.

[...]

Gender - Being male or female. (The European Court of Justice has held that discrimination against a transsexual person on the ground of sex.)

He refused to call the person by their new name too.

[Carnage]

He'll be out a day or 2 after joining the general population. A couple of nights of being mistaken of a woman himself will change his mind rapid.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

 

[astfgyl]

Ask a silly worn-out whataboutism question, get a sensible answer:

https://assets.gov.ie/25063/a6e913a466344dce9530ce261b41d6c5.pdf

The nine grounds on which discrimination is prohibited are
• gender,
• marital status,
• family status,
• sexual orientation,
• religion,
• age,
• disability,
• race and
• membership of the Traveller community.

[...]

Gender - Being male or female. (The European Court of Justice has held that discrimination against a transsexual person on the ground of sex.)

He refused to call the person by their new name too.

You're calling that a sensible answer while avoiding the question I asked. I'm not sticking up for Burke, I think he's a knob but is that their official new name or can they change it again and expect everyone to play ball with the new one say once a year?

And people can pretend there's gender fluidity all they want, I don't have to believe it no more than I have to believe in Jesus if I don't. I'll just leave them do their own thing in the church and stay out of it.

So to ask again, what can't people identify as and why is that any different?

[Snare]

Interesting read here, never knew about the link to his sister's case versus Arthur Cox which I also followed from the early rumblings and watched it explode...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40955927.html

[Bürggermeister]

If one met Cronos, would one insist on calling him Conrad?

[astfgyl]

Might do, how old is he? I get the argument here, Burke should've called them by their new name and been done with it really.

He's not a martyr he's a very naughty boy.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Like is there a list of things one can identify as, and acceptable pronouns?
[...]
So to ask again, what can't people identify as and why is that any different?

Legally speaking (the law being what makes things different, to answer your question), only gender identification is covered. Cats, dogs, helicopters, every other whataboutism outside of gender is not covered.

Anyone over 18 in Ireland can legally change any or all of their names whenever they want, several times if they wish to, and this confers the right to be referred to by that name.

Just ask this fella: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Dublin_Bay_Rockall_Loftus

[hellfire]

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-enoch-burke-spent-his-first-night-in-custody-isolated-from-general-prison-population-41960828.html

Fucking hell that's outrageous.

Oh the old Burke family. For years every Saturday on Main st in Castlebar would have a loudspeaker and tell us all how we're going to hell. The biggest bunch of fucking loons ever. And fuck that guy. He wouldn't call a child the name it wants. Oh the humanity. He's so put upon.

A pack of cunts indeed. Delighted to see this.

The pronouns are one thing. He's not in jail for those. He's in jail for making a roaring bollox of himself at a school event, harassing the principal and defying the resultant court order to not come near the school.

[astfgyl]

Like is there a list of things one can identify as, and acceptable pronouns?
[...]
So to ask again, what can't people identify as and why is that any different?

Legally speaking (the law being what makes things different, to answer your question), only gender identification is covered. Cats, dogs, helicopters, every other whataboutism outside of gender is not covered.

Anyone over 18 in Ireland can legally change any or all of their names whenever they want, several times if they wish to, and this confers the right to be referred to by that name.

Just ask this fella: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Se%C3%A1n_Dublin_Bay_Rockall_Loftus

So is the student over 18? Has their name been legally changed?

Calling everything whataboutery doesn't change the nature of the discussion. If one can feel like they're a different gender then why can't they feel like they're a different species altogether? Are there certain levels of dysphoria that are acceptable, and if there are well then maybe the stook Burke might feel like gender dysphoria is a step too far for him but be fine with someone feeling social dysphoria as he himself seems to. Why are his beliefs not protected as well as the student seeing as religious grounds is another of the things one can't be discriminated against on? Who decides which trumps which?

Besides, as was mentioned, that's not why Burke is in jail anyway. It was his subsequent behaviour that got him there.

Doesn't stop the question, if we are to campaign for transsexual rights to the extent that others must play along by rule of law, whether they believe it or not, what happens when someone feels transracial or species dysphoria or whatever else? What happens if I believe I have the freedom of Dublin and graze my sheep on Stephen's green, are others to go along with it even though they know I was never given the freedom of Dublin?

Should there be a line drawn somewhere, and if so, where? Far too easy to just call Burke a spa for his part but the same will arise again and there'll have been no actual discussion, just the usual gnashing of teeth, with everything drawn around party lines and heels dug in on both sides.

As for The Law being what's different, the law can be very silly at times, as I'm sure all of the outlawed homosexuals felt for a long time.

[hellfire]

I'd agree that there will be a test case on this kind of nonsense sooner or later. With all the ball acting he's done besides it won't be very clear how it goes from this one.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Calling everything whataboutery doesn't change the nature of the discussion.

[...]
What happens if I believe I have the freedom of Dublin and graze my sheep on Stephen's green, are others to go along with it even though they know I was never given the freedom of Dublin?

Your whataboutery is pretty obviously whataboutery. I'm not being dismissive, you're being silly.

By the way, I don't know if the kid is over 18. But if they had their parents' consent, which we know they did, then they could have changed it by deed poll anyway. My point was that as it stands, and has stood for quite a long time, people can change their names whenever they want and, legally speaking, other people have to respect that. In that sense that, for example, you could send me a bill under my old name and I could petition that that legal entity no longer exists (as long as I had informed the party sending the bill), etc. The law isn't nearly as mental (nor has it become particularly more mental due to gender dysphoria and transsexuality being taken into account) than certain people like to imagine.

[Ollkiller]

Yeah he's a fool no doubt. I have a question though, how far does one take it in addressing people how they want to be addressed. What if a student identified as a dog or cat and insisted on being referred to as such (insert crazy pronoun here)? Like is there a list of things one can identify as, and acceptable pronouns?

Playing devil's advocate here a bit because the other question is why didn't Burke just call them by their actual name and avoid the pronoun wanker game? The first question still stands looking for an answer though, how far is too far?

Probably sees himself as some sort of martyr for the cause but then again I bet so does the student in question.

Fuck the both of the bullshitting bastards.

I just ask people their name. And then call them that. Couldn't give a flying fuck about the rest of it. You want to identify as a cat. Couldn't care less, just tell me your name kitty.

[astfgyl]

Yes that is the approach most would take but we're talking the legal aspects of it rather than the moral ones. I would also ask someone their name and use that, as I've always done.

Calling everything whataboutery doesn't change the nature of the discussion.

[...]
What happens if I believe I have the freedom of Dublin and graze my sheep on Stephen's green, are others to go along with it even though they know I was never given the freedom of Dublin?

Your whataboutery is pretty obviously whataboutery. I'm not being dismissive, you're being silly.

By the way, I don't know if the kid is over 18. But if they had their parents' consent, which we know they did, then they could have changed it by deed poll anyway. My point was that as it stands, and has stood for quite a long time, people can change their names whenever they want and, legally speaking, other people have to respect that. In that sense that, for example, you could send me a bill under my old name and I could petition that that legal entity no longer exists (as long as I had informed the party sending the bill), etc. The law isn't nearly as mental (nor has it become particularly more mental due to gender dysphoria and transsexuality being taken into account) than certain people like to imagine.

I'm not being silly. It's the nature of the discussion. Should the dysphoria of the student trump that of Burke and if so, why? You're presuming the student legally had the name changed and using that bit of law to back your argument but you've no idea if they did by deed poll or not so it doesn't apply.

Should people who want to change their name be forced to do so legally before another person is forced to refer to them as that name, on pain of suspension from their job (because the prison bit is entirely of his own making, I think we can all see that)?

How far is too far when forcing others to comply with one's dysphoria? Where would you personally draw the line?

Has Burke equal right not to be discriminated against for his religious beliefs as the student has not to be discriminated for their sexuality, and how would you break the impasse in such a situation?

It's easy hide behind the "that's the law" aspect of things, but how would you feel if the law was against homosexuality or abortion? You'd be saying the law is a load of shit instead of avoiding the meat in the discussion by hiding behind it.

That silly enough for you?