Anyone seen this shit show of a Facebook page. I'll probably get legal proceedings now just for mentioning it :laugh: He's great for the ould bombarding people with Facebook messages giving all sorts of threats etc
What is it?
It's a buck who has set up an Ireland Metal Heads page. Has 14000 members now. Blocks anyone who says anything "negative" and bands are now starting to disown the fella. Sent messages to people I know basically threatening them and their bands and the like. Set up a gig in Drogheda that had to be postponed due to Covid and all the bands are now pulling out over something. Lots of talk on bookface about it.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10224830908499465&id=1216353082
Good synopsis by a lad there who had dealings with him
Is he looking for a forum to contribute to?
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2021, 08:23:11 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10224830908499465&id=1216353082
Good synopsis by a lad there who had dealings with him
There's alot more he could say but doesn't. Boo. Spill all the beans!!!
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on January 27, 2021, 08:30:25 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2021, 08:23:11 PM
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10224830908499465&id=1216353082
Good synopsis by a lad there who had dealings with him
There's alot more he could say but doesn't. Boo. Spill all the beans!!!
He's involved with Ragebreed as well. That's another total shitshow.
I don't know which is more tragic, a deluded nitwit trying to SUPPORTTHESCENEBRAH! or those official statements by people and bands disassociating from him and warning everyone else to steer clear of him. Looks like a tie for king mongo to me.
Could everyone please just calm down, take a deep breath and SUPPORTTHESCENEBRAH!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on January 27, 2021, 08:27:57 PM
Is he looking for a forum to contribute to?
:abbath: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 27, 2021, 08:32:20 PM
I don't know which is more tragic, a deluded nitwit trying to SUPPORTTHESCENEBRAH! or those official statements by people and bands disassociating from him and warning everyone else to steer clear of him. Looks like a tie for king mongo to me.
Aye a bit cringe alright. On the other side if it helps bands stay clear of him at least some good comes outta it.
But sure, what harm if they have dealings with him? They'll soon see he's a buffoon.
Edit. I'm completely out of touch with all of this stuff and from the outside it all looks like fuss over fuck all. But sure, what do I know... if bands spent more time on their music than trying to get Facebook acclaim the good Lord Jesus himself would sign them all to his label and there'd be no more war.
Somrothing specific must have happened for everyone to suddenly distance themselves from him. My guess is he's looking for cash from them to secure their place on the bill for his 'gathering'.
He's probably a nazi, or a communist, or even worse from Arklow or Longford or somewhere just as horrific :abbath:
How in good fuck does a page of Irish metalheads have 14k?
Sounds like a load of bollocks anyway. Def a Nazi communist from Arklow with that name.
This whole thing is so retarded from everyone involved. I always get a kick out of these official statements from these bands I've never heard of.
There's a splinter group called Ireland Metal Heads uncensored where all the banned people have gone. A lot of women commenting on creepy messages they got from him.
Sure didn't the good Lord himself send dick pics from the cross. A time honoured tradition.
Why exactly was he banning people? What were they being negative about? Fuck. I suppose I'm interested now.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:12:11 PM
Why exactly was he banning people? What were they being negative about? Fuck. I suppose I'm interested now.
You're not allowed say a band is shit. You have to be "positive bro". Question anything and you're banned. He sold raffle tickets for a guitar with about 80 euro and was selling tickets for 20 euro or something a pop. Advertised it as being worth 250 or thereabouts. Lads said it was worth about 100 euro. Banned. That sort of nonsense.
I've had 3 accounts banned on The Journal, so probably not worth my while signing up.
Quote from: blessed1 on January 27, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
This whole thing is so retarded from everyone involved. I always get a kick out of these official statements from these bands I've never heard of.
He sent sleazy messages to women. I'd never do that, it's just not the kind of nice trust worthy and reliable guy I am, ladies. Honest. If any of you ever feel like calling over we can talk about our emotions and listen to my Damien Rice CDs. I mean, I hardly even have a cock at all. I'm just such a non threatening nice guy. Ladies?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 27, 2021, 08:52:13 PM
But sure, what harm if they have dealings with him? They'll soon see he's a buffoon.
Edit. I'm completely out of touch with all of this stuff and from the outside it all looks like fuss over fuck all. But sure, what do I know... if bands spent more time on their music than trying to get Facebook acclaim the good Lord Jesus himself would sign them all to his label and there'd be no more war.
Out of touch maybe, but dead right.
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2021, 09:16:19 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:12:11 PM
Why exactly was he banning people? What were they being negative about? Fuck. I suppose I'm interested now.
You're not allowed say a band is shit. You have to be "positive bro". Question anything and you're banned.
I hope he dies.
I saw him getting split with a headbutt at the Testament/ Exodus gig last year. He tracked me down on Facebook afterwards to say thanks for getting him some tissue out of the Jacks. He also offered me a free ticket to the gig he was organising. Needless to say I'm devastated and all those bands owe me an apology.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2021, 09:16:19 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:12:11 PM
Why exactly was he banning people? What were they being negative about? Fuck. I suppose I'm interested now.
You're not allowed say a band is shit. You have to be "positive bro". Question anything and you're banned.
I hope he dies.
The group is basically people who cried over The Rev thread on MI, are true Metallica fans because they don't think their post AJFA material is bollox and a bunch of fucking crybabies who need a fb group to help with their mental health. Self medicate with opiates you fucking whiney cuntbags.
Quote from: lifeeternal on January 27, 2021, 10:35:32 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2021, 09:16:19 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:12:11 PM
Why exactly was he banning people? What were they being negative about? Fuck. I suppose I'm interested now.
You're not allowed say a band is shit. You have to be "positive bro". Question anything and you're banned.
I hope he dies.
The group is basically people who cried over The Rev thread on MI, are true Metallica fans because they don't think their post AJFA material is bollox and a bunch of fucking crybabies who need a fb group to help with their mental health. Self medicate with opiates you fucking whiney cuntbags.
Pretty much. An echo chamber for gobshytes.
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 27, 2021, 09:06:11 PM
There's a splinter group called Ireland Metal Heads uncensored where all the banned people have gone. A lot of women commenting on creepy messages they got from him.
On which, Leather Mike is a regular contributor (the uncensored group I mean).
Anyway the whole thing with IMH is a fucking shitshow and has been from the start. Genuinely such a wealth of shit associated with it that it is impossible to go through it all. I quit that group ages back because they do exactly fuck all to promote Irish Metal in any way, and the whole thing is an ego trip for the admins. Stay away.
I've been off Facebook for a few months now but seen him pop up before, got a lot of chat from lads in messenger about him. Just seems to be out of touch and an oddball.
I will say, the whole bands denouncing thing is a bit much, has an element of '5 minutes of fame' about it. Everyone I know saw that group as a shit show way early to be honest. You know somethings off when a fella is more or less grooming young wans to be admins on a somewhat meaningless page.
I must say as well there's a lot of lads doing things in the vein of 'support the scene' recently and all comes across as people trying to get a piece of the action without doing anything worthwhile. They always pick their favourites and somehow create enemies. This is what happens when you let anyone use social media.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 27, 2021, 09:22:18 PM
I'm just such a non threatening nice guy. Ladies?
We all saw it that time
Is it one of those groups where auld lads do the devil horns in front of a CD jewel case of Reign in Blood and type "FRIDAY EVENING MOOD LADS"?
Oh, I didn't realise it was that cool. 8)
Quote from: Airneanach on January 28, 2021, 08:34:41 AM
Is it one of those groups where auld lads do the devil horns in front of a CD jewel case of Reign in Blood and type "FRIDAY EVENING MOOD LADS"?
Yup
I like this guy. Reading about him has passed a few minutes while I take a shit at work. And let's be honest, that's probably all the attention most people should be giving him.
Quote from: hellfire on January 27, 2021, 11:55:32 PM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 27, 2021, 09:22:18 PM
I'm just such a non threatening nice guy. Ladies?
We all saw it that time
I thought I was being very discreet. Back to the drawing board.
What a group of cunts they all seem to be.
What they really should do is remove the world "Ireland" from the group name. Its fucking embarrassing. The whole shitty melodramatic saga has been embarrassing.
The guy is a major asshole with a big ego and very thin skin and massive paranoia. Fuck him and his facebook group.
There's more to Ireland dan dis
Quote from: Obsidian on January 28, 2021, 03:14:50 PM
What they really should do is remove the world "Ireland" from the group name. Its fucking embarrassing. The whole shitty melodramatic saga has been embarrassing.
The guy is a major asshole with a big ego and very thin skin and massive paranoia. Fuck him and his facebook group.
Should we start a petition?
Does the petition include a GoFundMe? Pointless without that
I personally think we should all fart in his general direction.
It should just be left rot. It does nothing and fools no-one, he has half the bands in Ireland banned off the cunting thing anyway. I'll watch it fold and laugh but couldn't be fucked giving it my time any more. This site is about all the Irish Metal I need and is a more accurate sub section of it.
Screenshots of this thread just turned up in a group message I'm in. Hi Mick.
The whole situation just seems like the worst parts of Fibbers on a Friday night condensed into a FB page.
Quote from: ochoill on January 28, 2021, 04:04:53 PM
Screenshots of this thread just turned up in a group message I'm in. Hi Mick.
I smell a forum/facebook invasion coming on.
Years ago a wrestling forum I belonged to decided to invade Another forum every week, we first did an american catholic site, then a 'genetically attracted' site then a Dundee student one where my sister's then boyfriend was on.
The mods then told us to quit when we hit a neo Nazi one and posted lots of pics of naked black cocks.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 27, 2021, 09:12:11 PM
Why exactly was he banning people? What were they being negative about? Fuck. I suppose I'm interested now.
I left the actual page rather than be banned but the gentleman in question used to ban people over feck all really. All a bit silly and the guy definitley has an inflated sense of his own importance to put it mildly.
What is it with people in this country with no history of promoting gigs or playing in bands anointing themselves the saviours of the scene?
The stupidity of that group is astounding. People got banned early on for posting about the band Gotham City. When they asked the admins why they were told "because this isnt a group about movies"
Dear lawd, hahaha :laugh:
Lads, this has a Philfest vibe too it. Like a sequel if you will ha ha ha. Sounds like a bunch if normies with inflated egos and big mouths.
Can any of you screenshot the shit show for those of us unfortunate enough not to be privvy to Facebook.... :laugh:
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/143590041_10159156998242210_4384760500023454683_o.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=Le5I8qsNqk4AX_UvlWo&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=1dfe359678a02df859cb9bdd5c794274&oe=6038D6D5)
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/143946739_3980309875314442_5076863854612457434_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=xEcAeToXRpgAX8LymGI&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=0772d612cb22172c00ab9dd9cbab8576&oe=6038F5F0)
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/143218417_3811130452242722_2946000648587915373_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=N9auzYywrPwAX-zmn7n&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=c28c716d156b120b91f9a7f53314d067&oe=6038AD4F)
Legal advice :laugh:
Page is a bit embarrassing all right. No discussion allowed just "positivity".
Oh dear lawd gawd.... :laugh:
Hahahahaha. I love that he felt he had to clarify that fairies aren't real.
Just start your own "Metallica Sucks" group and go mad.
Problem solved.
Didn't even know I was in this group til I checked.
I posted a Metallica fail compilation vid with still has not been approved
Strange ...
The world has gone to fuck in the last few years, that exchange is fucking embarrassing no matter what way you look at it. The chap saying Metallica suck and going to the trouble of questioning the other fuckwit as to why it's not ok to do it. Who gives a fuck!!! GET A CUNTING FUCKING LIFE YOU FUCKING PLANKS!!! Maybe it's just me being an insensitive 40-year-old cunt, but what a bunch of fucking wimps! If you have mental health issues go see a fucking shrink or at the very least your GP. Join a gym, go for a walk... Get the fuck off the internet, that's the last place you need to be if you've got issues you fucking dipshits. You fucking cunts will get the rest of us sound metalheads tarnished with the same 'pussy' brush!!! G'WAY TA FUCK!!!!
Tell me more about this pussy brush :-*
I can see the headlines now, "Far right infiltrate innocent heavy metal page".
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 29, 2021, 02:21:38 PM
Tell me more about this pussy brush :-*
You can have mine, I've started shaving my gowl now that I'm a Neo-Nazi internet tough guy.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 29, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
Hahahahaha. I love that he felt he had to clarify that fairies aren't real.
https://youtu.be/IyuXi_jsPvg
(https://i.redd.it/q0sf0vk7i6o51.jpg)
What ever happened to Gary Cooper? The strong silent type...
Seems like a fairly textbook case of someone loving being the sheriff of the town because they have a Facebook group.
One of the hilarious things about all this is that loads of the bands who made a big deal about disassociating with the group and "The Gathering"(still an awful name for a gig) to maintain professionalism were probably blacklisted by promotors for associating with em in the first place. It took most of em a year to figure out that the thing was sham lol
Quote from: open face surgery on January 29, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
Hahahahaha. I love that he felt he had to clarify that fairies aren't real.
*Edmund Lenihan has requested to message you.*
:laugh: I didn't fly my colours, I just thought the way he mentioned it was hilarious. The bould Eddie came to mind watching the clip below.
Quote from: blessed1 on January 29, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 29, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
Hahahahaha. I love that he felt he had to clarify that fairies aren't real.
https://youtu.be/IyuXi_jsPvg
I genuinely loved that. Best thing in the thread by far.
Quote from: blackwrits96 on January 29, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
One of the hilarious things about all this is that loads of the bands who made a big deal about disassociating with the group and "The Gathering"(still an awful name for a gig) to maintain professionalism were probably blacklisted by promotors for associating with em in the first place. It took most of em a year to figure out that the thing was sham lol
Exactly. It makes their virtue signalling all the more embarrassing. If these were young lad bands on their first demo I'd say fair enough but these are supposed to be seasoned bands. A short chat about backline, promotion and slots would surely be all that was needed to reveal this lad doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
He embodies the bearded twat genre.
I gotta say if I was in one of the bands on that lineup I wouldn't be in a mad rush to make a big song and dance about cancelling our appearance after letting this nonsense go on for the guts of a year. It's honestly embarassing that they were so desperate for a gig in a pub in Drogheda to ignore all the obvious warning signs that the whole thing is a mess. Especially for bands that have been gigging for years. I'd be much more inclined to quietly delete any mention of it from social media and pretend the whole thing never happened!
Never had anything to do with facebook and couldn't give a fuck about it but this clusterfuck has peeked my interest for some reason.
What age is this lad running this abortion clinic of a facebook page thingy anyway?
You have to know a lads vintage before you can fairly judge how much of a cunt he is, based on his actions.
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on January 30, 2021, 10:14:34 PM
Never had anything to do with facebook and couldn't give a fuck about it but this clusterfuck has peeked my interest for some reason.
What age is this lad running this abortion clinic of a facebook page thingy anyway?
You have to know a lads vintage before you can fairly judge how much of a cunt he is, based on his actions.
old enough to be a midlife crisis
Quote from: blessed1 on January 29, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 29, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
Hahahahaha. I love that he felt he had to clarify that fairies aren't real.
https://youtu.be/IyuXi_jsPvg
That was brilliant. I love this too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rrdSr2EIM&t=3s&ab_channel=CelticAtlanticTales
The story of your man going off his head is something special.
Since I left my fair isle 10 years ago it seems to have become an abolute mecca for 'mental health' issues. Now I'm sure there's people with genuine issues, no more than any other time in history, but I'd really wonder if all the constant talk and attention to it is even helping? Maybe not the best place to create a discussion about it but it just seems like they're flogging a horse over something that literally is never discussed in the country I live in. It seems to give authority to lads like yer man mentioned here to be busybodying and telling people what they should and shouldn't be saying over nothing themes also, things that literally mran nothing, like Metallica sux big hairy arses.
It's a good thing that mental health is open for discussion, especially among men, but you're right about the self-catastrophising leeches who inevitably use it as a way to dominate other people. Those energy vampires are allergic to positivity and will always find a way to drag everyone down into their shit. The thing is not you throw the baby out with the barn waste (bath water is what I meant but my predictive text has other ideas it seems). Nothing revelatory in that but it's always worth keeping in mind as there is fuck all you can do about the victim Olympians.
Yes, true, we certainly needed to open up and be able to vent and discuss problems. I suppose it has given rise to a type of virtue signaller that seems to leech onto every popular movement going. I remember my grandfather's generation, there were always these intensely Catholic types.about the place. Everything that came out of their mouth was 'oohh the poor thing, the poor creatur', this victim olympics thing. Plenty reason to set sail for New York if you ask me.
This is truly embarrassing. Is there many on here who are members of this abortion? Has the chap running the page have any experience actually
running gigs at all?
Quote from: Bigmac on January 31, 2021, 12:29:49 PM
Quote from: blessed1 on January 29, 2021, 02:33:02 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 29, 2021, 12:01:28 PM
Hahahahaha. I love that he felt he had to clarify that fairies aren't real.
https://youtu.be/IyuXi_jsPvg
That was brilliant. I love this too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rrdSr2EIM&t=3s&ab_channel=CelticAtlanticTales
The story of your man going off his head is something special.
Watched that the last day after a little trip down the fairy hole. Ha. There's another clip of your man John on his farm with some Mullingar gimp interviewing him. Def gonna go down there camping with a few shrooms. Imagine the delight, while tripping, of John coming down the field hammered drunk in nothing but his wellies with a fairy each side of him coming into your tent to rub your face. :laugh:
Quote from: open face surgery on January 31, 2021, 01:54:11 PM
Watched that the last day after a little trip down the fairy hole. Ha. There's another clip of your man John on his farm with some Mullingar gimp interviewing him. Def gonna go down there camping with a few shrooms. Imagine the delight, while tripping, of John coming down the field hammered drunk in nothing but his wellies with a fairy each side of him coming into your tent to rub your face. :laugh:
:laugh: :abbath:
Quote from: Anton Arcane on January 29, 2021, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: blackwrits96 on January 29, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
One of the hilarious things about all this is that loads of the bands who made a big deal about disassociating with the group and "The Gathering"(still an awful name for a gig) to maintain professionalism were probably blacklisted by promotors for associating with em in the first place. It took most of em a year to figure out that the thing was sham lol
Exactly. It makes their virtue signalling all the more embarrassing. If these were young lad bands on their first demo I'd say fair enough but these are supposed to be seasoned bands. A short chat about backline, promotion and slots would surely be all that was needed to reveal this lad doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
Look at the bands that were on the line up, every one of them are made up of retards and posers of the worst kind, bargain basement fibbers all ages day gig type bands that no one actually serious about going to gigs gives the slightest shit about. The fact that they are mongos is proven by as stated by a few lads here is that it took them a year to realise that this "gathering" was stupid, likely a scam and run by a mouldy old pervert with the brainpower of a spud lol
Who was on the bill aside from Psykosis and Crossfire?
Quote from: El_ogre_del_Dublinios on January 31, 2021, 03:52:44 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on January 29, 2021, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: blackwrits96 on January 29, 2021, 03:43:37 PM
One of the hilarious things about all this is that loads of the bands who made a big deal about disassociating with the group and "The Gathering"(still an awful name for a gig) to maintain professionalism were probably blacklisted by promotors for associating with em in the first place. It took most of em a year to figure out that the thing was sham lol
Exactly. It makes their virtue signalling all the more embarrassing. If these were young lad bands on their first demo I'd say fair enough but these are supposed to be seasoned bands. A short chat about backline, promotion and slots would surely be all that was needed to reveal this lad doesn't know his arse from his elbow.
Look at the bands that were on the line up, every one of them are made up of retards and posers of the worst kind, bargain basement fibbers all ages day gig type bands that no one actually serious about going to gigs gives the slightest shit about. The fact that they are mongos is proven by as stated by a few lads here is that it took them a year to realise that this "gathering" was stupid, likely a scam and run by a mouldy old pervert with the brainpower of a spud lol
100%
Idiots the lot of them.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 31, 2021, 03:59:39 PM
Who was on the bill aside from Psykosis and Crossfire?
The crawling, ketos, words that burn,witchkicker. That's what I seen on the poster for it anyhow.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 31, 2021, 03:59:39 PM
Who was on the bill aside from Psykosis and Crossfire?
Don't see crossfire on the poster itself and I think they just posted thier disassociation out of solidarity with psykosis
As I said, none of these bands are worth a toss anyway. Most of them I've never heard of, although to be fair that could my fault, or indeed as I suspect it might be cos they play shite music for emo kiddies 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Fyre 2: Stranded in Fibbers coming soon to Netflix.
Quote from: El_ogre_del_Dublinios on January 31, 2021, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 31, 2021, 03:59:39 PM
Who was on the bill aside from Psykosis and Crossfire?
Don't see crossfire on the poster itself and I think they just posted thier disassociation out of solidarity with psykosis
As I said, none of these bands are worth a toss anyway. Most of them I've never heard of, although to be fair that could my fault, or indeed as I suspect it might be cos they play shite music for emo kiddies 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
In fairness The Crawling are deadly. Katatonia/paradise lost vibe with fast sections. Great live band.
Quote from: Ollkiller on January 31, 2021, 07:14:52 PM
Quote from: El_ogre_del_Dublinios on January 31, 2021, 04:26:54 PM
Quote from: open face surgery on January 31, 2021, 03:59:39 PM
Who was on the bill aside from Psykosis and Crossfire?
Don't see crossfire on the poster itself and I think they just posted thier disassociation out of solidarity with psykosis
As I said, none of these bands are worth a toss anyway. Most of them I've never heard of, although to be fair that could my fault, or indeed as I suspect it might be cos they play shite music for emo kiddies 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
In fairness The Crawling are deadly. Katatonia/paradise lost vibe with fast sections. Great live band.
Yes but they don't need a mop and bucket to soak the sweat off the stage after they play. That's the benchmark for a nordie Death/Doom band.
So Crossfire got involved even though they weren't anything to do with the gig? Wow. That's really doubling down on the bullshit drama.
Quote from: open face surgery on January 31, 2021, 08:12:17 PM
So Crossfire got involved even though they weren't anything to do with the gig? Wow. That's really doubling down on the bullshit drama.
as far as i can see, that is correct
Did that group die it's death yet? Someone report in for the non-facebook heads :laugh:
Apparently not. I dunno I left everything to do with it on fb because I was sick to the teeth of it but ot has too many members to die. It should basically just be ignored, it has no affect on anything.