Are we all fucked?

[astfgyl]

https://news.mit.edu/2022/aluminum-sulfur-battery-0824

This could be quite useful in helping us to be less fucked

[The Butcher]

13.8% in 2022, according to the stats from the article you posted. The 17% was a decade ago, in 2012, so by all accounts the number has net decreased, and significantly, in only 10 years. Plus, the 500k Irish abroad is in the EU only, whereas the 13.8% is all foreign born. Details really matter here.

The percentage is lower granted but the number is still higher than Irish 500k...looking further into it the 13.8% isn't exact either if we go by Eurostat data, so the actual number hasn't decreased significantly ->
https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/foreign-born-population-eurostat-data.html

Population increased to 5.1 million this year, the ppsn rate is very high etc etc.

Vacant homes decent point (goverment also spent taxpayers money on demolishing ghost estates 10 years ago which is criminal) but depends where they are so that detail is important too if you're going to throw out numbers while we nitpick everything to death. I totally agree that everything shoved in or around Dublin is a huge mistake, especially when there is feck all reason, you swear we have ore/mining going on in Dublin. It's basically just office jobs that could be anywhere. When someone is very pro open borders, I never see them say what level of migration is too high, what's too much for a country of our size per year? I want a balanced, sensible approach to it - so we can plan appropriately because in reality, without any sort of proper structure in place, currently it's at the cost of everyone.

[hellfire]

On this forum and in general we focus purely on economic arguments. Following on from The Butchers question here. At what point is immigration too high in terms of demographics. When does Cork lose what makes it Cork? White British people only account for about 45% of the population of London at the moment. At what point is there enough?

[hellfire]

Also, just to correct some of the nonsense numbers further back.

810,406 Irish residents were born in another country in 2016 an increase of 43,636 on 2011. I'm sure a lot of them have had kids since 2011 also. Conferring of citizenship awards tend to number into one or two thousand per ceremony also, so those numbers aren't counted.

CSO report available here

[Caomhaoin]

Totally valid point, but many people are scared stiff to even bring it up.

You can imagine the outcry if Mumbai or Lagos were flooded with poor, unskilled and troublesome white immigrants.

It's a confidence trick on a vast scale, merely questioning unprecedented demographic shifts and non-existent enforcement of immigration laws all over Western Europe is now 'Racist', and he who utters such blasphemies is a 'far right'. It's water off a ducks back to you and I, Mick, but for most people it is not.

That BBC journalist who decried the lack of diversity in the England woman's team was rightly mocked and derided. I wonder why she doesn't ask why the Chinese or Ghanaian teams don't embrace DIVERSITY DIVERSITY DIVERSITY.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Chill out there Enoch hellfire Powell...

[hellfire]

That doesn't go anywhere near addressing my point Comrade Chris. I'm not suggesting Irish people are currently an ethnic minority, but will be at some point if current trends continue.

I'm always curious about people like you. It would be interesting to know the breakdown between how much of the drivel you spout you are consciously aware is nonsense. For example when you are intentionally obfuscating or deflecting the points other people make and dragging them back to a conversation that suits you, are you consciously aware you're doing it?

[astfgyl]

Here's an exercise we can all do if we are in Ireland at the moment.

When going about your business tomorrow, count the amount of foreigners vs Irish that you pass on your way. I did this in Limerick lately but I cheated by walking through people's park where the Arabs play soccer every evening. Otherwise it was about even but cities are different than small towns so I'd expect it wouldn't be so high in the countryside.

Yet.

[astfgyl]

Also at what point are they not foreign because half of em were probably born here

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That doesn't go anywhere near addressing my point Comrade Chris. I'm not suggesting Irish people are currently an ethnic minority, but will be at some point if current trends continue.

I'm always curious about people like you. It would be interesting to know the breakdown between how much of the drivel you spout you are consciously aware is nonsense. For example when you are intentionally obfuscating or deflecting the points other people make and dragging them back to a conversation that suits you, are you consciously aware you're doing it?

Am I consciously aware that we have fundamentally different outlooks on society, humanity, and life itself and that therefore every argument you throw out will appear like wilful ignorance or nonsense to me and vice versa? I am aware of that, yes. But, at the same time, I can also justifiably call dog whistling when you randomly evoke the example of London as if it is in any way, geographically but most importantly historically, comparable with Dublin. London is the center of what used to be the biggest kingdom the planet has ever known, the hub for affairs stretching east, west, south, and even north. In the aftermath of the famine, for example, Irish immigrants alone already made up around 20% of the population of London. Had you been white British there and then, think you'd have been understanding of their plight? Now, whether you take that as obfuscation or food for reflection is up to you. But we're a nation of emigrants, and I've always, long before I ever thought about leaving myself, taken that very seriously when thinking about immigration to Ireland.

[astfgyl]

Your homework is to count French people so

[hellfire]

Less than two pages ago you insisted that immigration was more or  less neutral in terms of people in and out. I believe it hit a peak ten years ago.

13.8% in 2022, according to the stats from the article you posted. The 17% was a decade ago, in 2012, so by all accounts the number has net decreased, and significantly, in only 10 years. Plus, the 500k Irish abroad is in the EU only, whereas the 13.8% is all foreign born. Details really matter here.

Then you post this when the conversation shifted slightly. Confirming that the number is in fact much higher.

Chill out there Enoch hellfire Powell...

As for your latest warble...

The nation of emigrants argument is toss in a state with a welfare system. Should we make them sign dentures and set them hard physical work too?

The population of Ireland has increased by a fifth at a time when birth rates among Irish people are lower.

You've picked at the London example by sidewinding through history again. The history of the city is irrelevant to the numbers. Continuously increasing the number of non Irish will give you the same results. Plenty German cities are at 30%

As I've said a certain level of immigration is acceptable and even desirable. This breakneck speed immigration is not. It is a massive social experiment unprecedented in human history negative outcomes of which are already becoming apparent.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

100 - 82.2 = 17.8% not 'white Irish' in 2016. On top of that will be some minuscule percentage of the Irish but not white whose numbers you seem so concerned about exploding.

We don't have that particular breakdown from the 2022 census yet, that I've seen. Just that 13% are non Irish.

"The history of the city is irrelevant to the numbers." Sure everything is irrelevant, isn't it? But then you say what we're experiencing is unprecedented in human history, a claim that obliges us to look at the human history of diasporas. Any big ones you can think of? And I'm supposedly the one moving the goalposts.

[hellfire]

If you're going back to the famine again have a think about how that worked out for the native population of America.

Numbers mean nothing to you as you have an ideology more than an opinion. Trying to suggest that there hasnt been a massive demographic shift in Ireland probably won't gain much traction on this forum. All anyone needs to do is look out a window or walk down a street.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Of course there's been a demographic change, as we have evolved, thanks almost exclusively to aid from abroad, from a country natives had to get the fuck out of in order to survive to a country that people, including many of the natives who left, want to move to. The oddness is seeing this as a bad thing in and of itself rather than just a thing which should have been expected and managed for over the last 2 to 3 decades. But it wasn't. Is that the fault of immigration? No. It's the fault of successive stupid governments and stupider voters.

Edit: It's actually only the voters I think have been stupid, lacking in imagination, vision. The successive governments and their cronies have been smart, unfalteringly, selfishly smart all along and have done just grand for themselves.