The Football Thread

[Caomhaoin]

O'Neill is yesterday's man, but he was highly successful with Leicester, Celtic and to an extent, Villa.

Kenny failed at Dunfermline, where according to ACSOM, the players didn't rate him at all. Paddy McCourt said he did a good job at Derry, and he has done great in the LOI in general, but he seems incapable of anything at a higher level.

[Paul keohane]

This delusion is incredible. Ah Cyprus, San Marino blah blah. Luxembourg haven't won an away game in qualifiers in 13 years. We have a manager who hasn't won in 10 games trying to implement a brand of football that only works when you have top quality professionals playing for you who are used to doing it week in week out. Everybody thinks they can be Barcelona now..nonsense. They have a culture of that way of playing that was implemented all through the levels going back to Johann Cryuff. We don't, and expecting it to suddenly begin to work when players are already in their 20's is ridiculous. There are many ways to play the game and winning breeds confidence, not how many passes you can put together.

no one has said or expects us to play like Barcelona,we just want to see us play in a more positive fashion.

[Paul keohane]

I stopped travelling up to Ireland games during the O Neill era,i consider myself a very keen Irish football fan.Not in it for any glory,but The Trapp/ O Neill eras sucked the enthusiasm out of me.I just couldn't do it any more,i can take a defeat no problem,but trudged performances time after time was enough.

88 and 90 were actually the downfall of Irish football,the Fai thought they didnt have to do a tap because we were top of the world.The game changed in England ,our players were getting less chances in Uk academies.The Fai never developed the game properly here,the chickens are coming home to roost with years now.

The Luxembourg league is ranked 37th in Europe,the League of Ireland is ranked 35th,says it all.Treating our own league like a parasite has caught up with us.

We also need a bit of luck in terms of a once in a generation player,one world class player would make a world of difference to a side like Ireland.

[Pedrito]

Not trying to rub salt into wounds here. The only thing that strikes me is that we used punch above our weight. We used the granny rule, we were smart, we got decent managers in. And of course, we had amazing players. 1 top.player makes a huge impact but needs 5 or 6 very decent players behind him to make things happen.

If you're Jack Grealish or Declan Rice, what about Stephen Kenny would attract you to come onboard? Now some will.say fuk them the Brits blah blah blah, but I'm sure John Aldridge and the likes needed a reason to play for us back in the day. It just doesn't seem very enticing. And we need to remember that pre 88 we weren't even this bad. We fell short but we had top top players in the team. I have a feeling Paul above is right. This didn't just happen overnight, it must come from years of letting the game slide. I get the feeling that Kenny is part of that slide rather than the answer to the equation though.

[Doctor Crippen]

Im 25 years working with my local club and for the last decade or more we have had little to no investment or help from the FAI in fact i would say the complete opposite.

I  know you might laugh but we wouldnt even get a football from them which might seem like something silly to say but kids pick up on this and parents definitely pick up on this. We fundraise for nearly everything and put our own hands iinto our own pockets several times a year just to get the basic things for the kids. And i am sure we are not alone in that sense

I would agree with you Pedrito on all that you have said and I feel people at the FAI have let the grassroots down which again would have a knock on effect for kids getting involved and committing to the sport and in turn this hugely impacts talent coming through and helping clubs educate young players. In most cases young players pin their hopes on defecting to one of the larger established clubs like home farm, cherry orchard etc just in the hope of getting a trial with a league of ireland youth set up or to a club in England

Thats just my own two cents on it, from someone who has committed to my local club in the hope of contributing to my community and to try and help kids enjoy the game and to have aspirations  and it feels good to get that off my chest

[Paul keohane]

Both my kids are in the academy of my local club,im a shareholder at Cork city fc years. Personally i think there is no joined up thinking/strategy between all the local leagues,league of Ireland clubs, and the Fai.Everyone was just fighting their own corner,i do think that its changing though.

There was no clear path for an up and coming prospect,its was totally disjointed.The Fai need to fully focus on how an academy player gets from his local club up to elite level.

Lads i could tell ye stuff about dealings with the FAi from Cork city fc meetings that would floor you.Getting rid of Delaney and some of his cronies will hopefully change things,but like I said this wont be fixed over night.

[astfgyl]

You're right, it will be a long time. We are deceiving ourselves if we think a tactical tweak or two will get us winning again. There is a massive difference these days too with the UK clubs not being as interested as they were in the last century, so we'd have to be looking at a system which develops our own players up to a half decent standard before anyone takes an interest in them, and for all the best intentions of local clubs and whatnot, it hasn't really been there up to now.

Another thing about this country is the Hurling and Football. Me own lad plays all 3, and the GAA sports don't clash with each other, but he regularly has to choose between those and the soccer due to training/fixture clashes. A bit of collaboration that way at the junior levels would be a massive help in that regard as well and let them specialise when they are teenagers but there is precious little of that where I am and loads of the young lads are scalded with it on a regular basis. If that gets replicated across the nation, how many potentially decent players are slipping through the net on a regular basis? I would say plenty. And conversely, how many potentially decent GAA players are missed by choosing the soccer after having to make a choice by the time they are 12 and floundering away there on the subs bench when they might be decent with a hurley? That's what it's like in Tipp anyway and I'd be surprised if the wasn't the story countrywide.

[Pedrito]

Every country has issues. Bottom line, if you don't have talented players then you need to adapt to the opposition and find other ways to win instead of jumping on the posession football bandwagon. Tighten up and try to dig out sone results. A 0-0 would be an amazing result against a team like Portugal even if we never had a shot on goal.

[astfgyl]

Every country has issues. Bottom line, if you don't have talented players then you need to adapt to the opposition and find other ways to win instead of jumping on the posession football bandwagon. Tighten up and try to dig out sone results. A 0-0 would be an amazing result against a team like Portugal even if we never had a shot on goal.

Ah yeah, we shouldn't have to be suffering the ignominy of a defeat to a far superior Luxembourg side or anything like that regardless of what problems there may be at development levels. I suppose a lot of us here were around in the 90s and 2000s when things were good and we could hope for a result against any side, and our domestic setup was in as much trouble then as now. World Cup 2002 for example when we only went out to Spain on penos after losing Keane and we played some soccer as well as digging in, with a manager who both believed in our abilities as well as knew our limitations. We had far better players though. One the one hand, no one wants to see the Trappatoni stuff coming back and I don't think anyone is enjoying the Kenny stuff either. Pity Mick didn't stick around for another bit.

[Pedrito]

I thought Mick was doing a very good job too but he's not Hollywood enough for the Irish media.

[Emphyrio]

Mick was hired to qualify for the upcoming tournament. If he'd been given a longer term contract I think he'd have brought in a few of the younger fellas instead of reverting to the "let's scrape results" with the old guard just to get to qualify. So ya, sticking with Mick would likely have been better.

[Paul keohane]

Id have to disagree,McCarthy was stealing a living as Irish manager,We beat Gibraltar and Georgia in that campaign?,was it?.He was paid just shy of €3m for that Campaign,not his fault ,but no manager of Ireland should be getting anywhere near that.

The problem for me over the last 15 years is we approached every game the same,with fear in our eyes!.I can take a backs to the wall effort to get us over the line against one of the big sides,Spain,Germany,Italy etc. But we went into games against teams of similar standard to ourselves or lower and absolutely looked like we were going to shit our pants.Soul destroying performances,no one expects us to turn up and walk through decent sides,but we've been playing cave man stuff for 15 years now.

Theres been thousands of fans have walked away from going to the Aviva because of Trapp,McCarthy and O Neill.Not plastic event junky fans either,proper Irish supporters that just had enough.

[Emphyrio]

Id have to disagree,McCarthy was stealing a living as Irish manager,We beat Gibraltar and Georgia in that campaign?,was it?.He was paid just shy of €3m for that Campaign,not his fault ,but no manager of Ireland should be getting anywhere near that.

Ya but Paul, he stuck to the old reliables for that campaign cos it was more likely to be a "safer" option. If he had a longer term he could have taken more risks with players and got them to play a bit of ball. In hindsight that campaign looks really bad but he was only hired for that one quick fix to qualify us.

[astfgyl]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/feb/24/mick-mccarthy-cardiff-city-championship-football



I know it isn't the same setup, but I'd have loved to see Mick at the helm for at least another qualifying campaign. We only missed out by a playoff last time. And surely no one here can say going to tournaments is worse for development than tapping it around to little or no effect for 20 years. Big games create big game players and inspire the next generation to boot. Ah well, it isn't like I don't want Kenny to do well or anything either. I'd take no pleasure in his failure.

[Paul keohane]

Id have to disagree,McCarthy was stealing a living as Irish manager,We beat Gibraltar and Georgia in that campaign?,was it?.He was paid just shy of €3m for that Campaign,not his fault ,but no manager of Ireland should be getting anywhere near that.

Ya but Paul, he stuck to the old reliables for that campaign cos it was more likely to be a "safer" option. If he had a longer term he could have taken more risks with players and got them to play a bit of ball. In hindsight that campaign looks really bad but he was only hired for that one quick fix to qualify us.

May be so,but id be very sceptical of McCarthy blooding players if he was there longer.Kenny may not be the answer,but we need to move away from dinosaurs managers too.