Brexit

[Juggz]

RTE are reporting that one of the alternatives to the backstop which was proposed by the UK Government is... a hard border.

It's just not quite at the border, you see, so it's not really a hard border?

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0930/1079253-border/

[Eoin McLove]

It's three borders! One either side of the 'soft' border and one in the sea.  Perfect solution.

By the time Boris is done with his borders Ireland will look like a bowl of spaghetti.

[Juggz]

Jaysus

But the prime minister insisted "that's not what we're proposing at all".
He would not reveal details of the proposals to be put to the EU, saying in an interview with BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he "would like to veil our proposals in decent obscurity" before sharing them.

[Eoin McLove]

"Indecent obscurity" sums up Brexit pretty well so far 

[Juggz]

Now, finally, they are saying out loud what they have pretended wouldn't happen for three fucking years.

Boris Johnson says the "reality" of Brexit is there will need to be customs checks on the island of Ireland after the UK leaves the EU. But the PM rejected claims that would effectively mean a hard border, in the form of a series of customs posts set five or 10 miles back. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "A sovereign united country must have a single customs territory."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49890199

[ochoill]

This whole thing just gets thicker every day.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Even though I live on the border I'm gone beyond giving a phuck at this stage.
Some of my colleagues, who like myself cross the border every day are apprehensive about the whole thing though. "Will I have to leave home earlier to get to work?"... etc....
.

[Eoin McLove]

I watched this earlier and,  knowing fuck all about economics, I found it interesting and illuminating. He seems to be of the opinion that Brexit will be little more than a fart in the wind, economically speaking- he doesn't go into the border issue which might appear completely irrelevant to his Canadian audience. His outlook on the climate issue being sorted out is equally positive.  Maybe some of you eggheads can pick out the flaws in his arguments.

https://youtu.be/KGuaoARJYU0

[Pedrito]

Of course it will be, it's just we're having a collective  drama queen assburgers freak out at the moment. That's what happens when language has become so hyperbolic that superlatives hold little or no meaning anymore. When some cunt who can barely hold a note is told he/she is 'amazing' 'incredible' then how can you catch peoples' attention when it comes to issues that really matter? So the problem is not Brexit or the environment. The problem is more to do with language which seems to be the root of nearly every problem we've ever had.

[Eoin McLove]

I think there are real challenges, though,  and both have the potential to be utterly disastrous if not handled properly.  I agree that the hyperbole is no help when it comes to Brexit,  and that the damage caused so far in terms of fracturing the country over the issue might be long lasting, and that's not even taking the border into consideration.  I would prefer to see the UK stay inside the EU but I also think that if they are leaving the world won't end.  There might be another cunt of a recession to deal with for all of us on these isles and that won't be fun,  but trade and economics will be sorted out sooner or later. The way they've gone about leaving seems backward to me and I think that a lot of the reasoning for leaving is possibly flawed,  but that's  another story.

The hyperbole might actually have helped in some way in terms of the climate issue.  I don't mean Greta,  as she is riding on the crest of a wave that has been building for a generation but l think that the general shift in attitude has helped in its way.  Surely tough,  the main motivating factor in all of it is money.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Merkel insists NI must stay in Customs Union, otherwise it's no deal. Arlene "what a lovely lady" Foster responds:

The comments from the German chancellor to the prime minister that Northern Ireland must remain in the EU customs union forever now reveal the real objective of Dublin and the European Union.

For the United Kingdom to be asked to leave a part of its sovereign territory in a foreign organisation of which the UK would no longer be a part and over which we would have no say whatsoever is beyond crazy. No UK government could ever concede such a surrender.

The EU is not interested in a negotiated outcome at this time. Their position is the UK can only leave with a deal if it agrees a binding piece of international law permanently tying either the whole country or a part of it to the EU's legal order over which it has no control.

The true purpose of the "backstop" is now in the open for all to see. Those who eagerly supported the backstop as the best of both worlds can now see the error of that assessment. It was neither temporary nor an insurance policy.

It appears that Martin Selmayr's remarks about Northern Ireland being the price of Brexit is still the EU negotiating stance.

The prime minister's proposals have flushed out Dublin's real intentions to trap Northern Ireland in the EU customs union forever, where Dublin rather than the United Kingdom's elected representatives would be in the driving seat.

We will not accept any such ultimatum or outcome.

[Eoin McLove]

Not helpful from either side.

[hellfire]

Agreed. The level of ball acting from both sides seems to have increased exponentially every month for the last three years. Young children could have handled the whole lot more maturely.

[Juggz]

True, but having a border - just not at the border - which the DUP can veto was never the best idea in the world. I suspect (hope) there are more serious proposals in the pipeline and they're just playing hardball, seeing who'll blink first. It would be thoroughly depressing if this is the best our and their politicians can do.

[Scáthach]

Can somebody just shove that gowl Foster down a deep, dark hole already, please?