Brexit

[Juggz]

The fun after that is any deal must still be passed by Parliament which, as we know, will be a shambles. That being said, that sneaky cunt Gove said he would now vote for May's deal were it to be presented to the Commons again.

[Pedrito]

Wasn't he in the run for PM last time?

Whatever about the Tories, you'd have to wonder about the alternative if that altwrnative is going to be this absolute mongo

https://youtu.be/CSa2wvJCIEc

Everytime I've seen her on Question Time or interviewed, the absolute bollox that comes out of her mouth is frightening.

[Juggz]

This is a good breakdown of where things stand today

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49612757

[Juggz]

Amber Rudd, the latest to jump ship.

[Eoin McLove]

I struggle to keep up with the endless twists and turns of Brexit and how each new development (definitely not the word I'm looking for!) has some obscure effect somewhere else, but even to my untrained eye the chaos and drama of the past two weeks looks frightening.  I wonder how all this will be written into history. How will the narrative run.

[Yung Led Zeppelin]

Again, I'm not fitting the Anti Brexit narrative here because it is important to understand the reasons why Brexit might make sense as opposed to a 'they're all fucking thick' response, which, quite frankly, I don/ buy for one second.

Disagree there, how is it that the rest of us have been able to see the whole thing for the utter shitshow it is? You have to draw a line somewhere. Fact of the matter is, a lot of people are completely fucking ignorant, it's not PC to say, but I wouldn't be giving anyone credit either.

Really really dislike this "all opinions have legitimacy" bullshit that's become part of discourse in the past few years.

[Pedrito]

It has absolutely nothing to do with that type of nonsense. There are thick cunts everywhere, but, and you may well disagree, but you are definitely wrong, Nigel Farage is not thick. Neither is Boris Johnson or a tonne of other politicians that pushed Brexit. They did it for valid reasons from their perspectives. Their electorate wanted it. There are many up and and down Europe who are very worried where Europe was headed, the power it was gaining. I'm very pro Europe, I live in Spain ffs, but I'm not blind to the fact that it has major negatives. If you only look at the amount of money the likes of Britain put into Europe, there are definite reasons for questioning the whole structure. Also depending on how you feel politically, having a supreme, unelected council mandating everything from Brussels could be interpreted in a variety of ways. We, as Irish people don't understand the negative sides to Europe(although the Troika etc should have been fair warning). We have milked it for all it's worth and it's been great for us. There are large swathes of people across Europe who don't share that opinion and Europe hasn't been a change for the better for them. So you can sing from the mainstream hymnsheet or you can look into maybe why 17m people didn't want the UK to stay in the EU and not come up with some bollox answer like they're all thick which is literally the height of arrogance to be frank.

[Juggz]

Great theatre right now. Boris is still refusing to ask for an extension, in contravention of law, and the opposition are refusing to play ball with the election.  I missed it but it looks like there was a vote earlier to release the Yellowhammer study which outline the effects of no-deal but, already, the Tories are apparently trying to find ways to not release the documents to Parliament.

[Pedrito]

It has been an amazing few days. Bercow standing down with all the drama of an Eastenders Christmas special. An absolute self serving egotist if ever I have seen one, and I used really enjoy listening to him. The way this is going, it will be in all history classes in 100 years time and god knows where it's going to end up.

Looking in from the outside, as an Irish person, we always take the anti Posh twat Tory line, but what's becoming apparent to me from reading and listening to various opinions outside of the mainstream Anti-Brexit line is that there is a huge feeling that Brexit is being held back by vested interests, mainstream media, and liberal elites who believe that what they say should go and screw the democratic vote of the people that took place. This brings me back again to the Lisbon Treaty and how we were coralled into voting yes the second time, and no matter how good Europe can be, that that blasé approach to democracy has been gaining steam for a long time in Brussels.

Not saying I necessarily believe all of the above, but I can, at least, see where they are coming from. At this stage, I think not leaving could have massive consequences for the entire European project and that they might be far better off cutting the UK off now before it gathers further steam.

Interesting times ahead..

[Juggz]

Didn't the Tories try to have a second vote on the same thing yesterday? So much for respecting democracy 

I see where you're coming from and I think it's valid. I also think that there is a serious interest in destabilising Europe coming from the likes of China and Russia and even the US.  The comments coming out of Trump and Bolton about wanting Brexit before there was Brexit betray this. They don't want a stable European state as a global superpower, clearly. There's no doubt the EU would be vastly stronger with a committed Britain as part of it. Them leaving does no obvious good for anyone in Britain or the remaining EU states. For all the faults of the EU, and there are many, I think overall it has been an incredible force for good, especially here and, despite the fears of federalisation, I'd say you're better in it than outside it if you're geographically in Europe.

[Pedrito]

I'd tend to agree, and yes it is true that them other powers are only to happy to see this happening.

[Juggz]

The Supreme Court has unanimously ruled that prorogation was unlawful 

[Eoin McLove]

I can't wait for nothing to be done about it

[Juggz]

 

[Emphyrio]

Wow, I'm surprised it went against him.