At The Heart of Winter

[Blackout]

The only cringe thing in BM is the far left trying to take all the hate and intolerance out of it. Talk about missing the point 

I also agree with this. But there's nothing inherently "mature" about hate and intolerance.

Ah there is though. The more mature you get the more hateful and intolerant you are.

[Eoin McLove]

More often than not when metal bands "mature" it means their drummer went to jazz college and they discovered post rock. Maturing into a nice shade of mid-beige for the polo-neck brigade. Give me immature hate and intolerance attached to music with a bit of testosterone any time.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If only the "adult" in AOR was closer in meaning to the "adult" in all other forms of "adult entertainment"!

[Blackout]

More often than not when metal bands "mature" it means their drummer went to jazz college and they discovered post rock. Maturing into a nice shade of mid-beige for the polo-neck brigade. Give me immature hate and intolerance attached to music with a bit of testosterone any time.

Not gonna lie, Gaahl in a beige polo-neck and red chinos is more horrifying than the "evil" image he puts out.

[Born of Fire]

I'm merely commenting on the "more evil than thou" shite that a lot of BM musicians go on with. I was reading an old Terrorizer magazine there the other day and there was an interview with Marduk. Fuck me what a painful read. Jon Nodtveidt from Dissection was even worse. Maybe it's all an act and I'm the stupid one for thinking they steadfastly believe everything they're saying though.....

There's probably an argument to be made that the best metal has been made by utter spastics.

At The Heart Of Winter and Sons of Northern Darkness are 2 incredible albums. Abbath is a hell of a guitarist and he really showcases his ability on these. The earlier stuff is great and all but the music can get lost in the noise at times.

[Pedrito]

Would agree with that. As with any 'movement' some lads just got caught up in their own self importance and started believing the hype. On the other hand, others played on it, maybe subverted it a little bit and developed even cooler and more interesting music out of it. I suppose it all depends on how much you are prepared to buy into the fantasy of it all. Are they just 4 lads with guitars and drums shouting a lot or is there a 'deeper meaning' at play here?

Judging by a lot of the suicides and other stuff that was going on some lads probably took it all a bit too much to heart whereas the lads that are still around could take it more with a pinch of salt, didn't take themselves too seriously to a certain degree. You can be serious about your music and art without going and acting it out I suppose would be the point. The same happened in punk music.

[Blizzard Beast]

Sons is a great album also, a return to form after  damned in black which was a bit flat.

Speaking of Abbath..
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/abbath-enters-studio-to-record-third-album/

[Trev]

Sons is a great album also, a return to form after  damned in black which was a bit flat.

Speaking of Abbath..
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/abbath-enters-studio-to-record-third-album/

Thought the last Abbath and Immortal albums had some really good moments and a few decent songs each, but couldn't help but think there was the chance for one great Immortal album if they joined back up

Anyway ATHOW is my go to for them. Ignored them for ages because I thought their album covers looked ridiculous, but loved the artwork on this one

[Grim Reality]

Personally I think black metal is a load of childish buffoonery (and with that statement I have just alienated 80 percent of this board).

I'm gone the other way and kinda regard all metal except for black metal as childish buffoonery!

BM is more than music. On the face of it it's daft for sure, but there is deeper meaning in it for certain people.

The majority of non BM metal can seem vacuous and juvenile by comparison.

[Pedrito]

What does deeper meaning even mean though? A spiritual quest? Religion? Philosophy? A way of life? Definitely not pulling lumps out of it because to each their own but interesting that something that really is an offshoot of rock music has taken on such deeper and more profound meanings for people.

[Eoin McLove]

I think that's true of metal in general, or at last it can and should be the case. Metal has always had the capacity to explore a wide range of ideas from the ludicrous to the profound, it's a matter of what you're after. The power of the music can't be disregarded,  the same can no doubt be said for any music on the hands and ears of the right individuals. Black metal, because it often takes itself very seriously, must surely be the perfect means to explore profound ideas.

[Eoin McLove]

I'd recommend reading Existentiell,  Cathal Rodgers's book/zines. They go deep into this stuff.

[Pedrito]

Interesting. The Martial Arts display similar traits. What one person sees as a brutal and violent end to a confrontation, another might see as a means to self realisation. The Chinese and Japanese martial arts indeed have philosophical principles embedded into their very framework/core, something that Westerners often fail to notice. The very movements employed are often a reflection of  higher or embedded principles. In that sense the arts were used to 'teach' people the principles, and the violent result of them became secondary. The soft, yielding ideas of Taoism for example is seen all over Japanese martial arts.

[Blizzard Beast]

Sons is a great album also, a return to form after  damned in black which was a bit flat.

Speaking of Abbath..
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/abbath-enters-studio-to-record-third-album/

Thought the last Abbath and Immortal albums had some really good moments and a few decent songs each, but couldn't help but think there was the chance for one great Immortal album if they joined back up

Anyway ATHOW is my go to for them. Ignored them for ages because I thought their album covers looked ridiculous, but loved the artwork on this one

Your probably right. Immortal were hinting that Abbaths debut album used riffs that were for the last Immortal album Northern Chaos album which might be indeed true as Outstrider was only ok and not as good as the debut.

[lifeeternal]

I think in your own case you are able to separate the performative element of the artist you admire from your own enjoyment of it but in the case of black metal you can't make the same separation. I don't believe you think that BM fans in general walk around in corpsepaint, carrying candlabra and howling at the moon while burning churches.

Ah here you can't bate an aul moonlight walk with the candelabra, howling like a mad thing.