The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Kurt Cocaine]

So wait a minute, right wing loons who are spreading lies about this guy are bad (which is correct), but all of the left wing loons who are not only going on like the Gardai are a racist organisation hellbent on killing black people, but are spreading their own deceiving narrative totally aren't just as bad?

No one in this discussion here has made claims from the unconfirmed "left" stuff that's circulating, so there was no need to address it in this discussion.

This is a very complex issue. I'd imagine all angles and positions on this are worth discussing.
And particularly, why a close relative of a dead scumbag is allowed to publicly bay for the blood of a member of An Garda Síochána but yet more focus being paid to the fact some internet twat spread misinformation about said scumbag.

[Bigmac]

So wait a minute, right wing loons who are spreading lies about this guy are bad (which is correct), but all of the left wing loons who are not only going on like the Gardai are a racist organisation hellbent on killing black people, but are spreading their own deceiving narrative totally aren't just as bad?

No one in this discussion here has made claims from the unconfirmed "left" stuff that's circulating, so there was no need to address it in this discussion.

This is a very complex issue. I'd imagine all angles and positions on this are worth discussing.
And particularly, why a close relative of a dead scumbag is allowed to publicly bay for the blood of a member of An Garda Síochána but yet more focus being paid to the fact some internet twat spread misinformation about said scumbag.

This is, in a word, just a thick thing to say.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This is a very complex issue. I'd imagine all angles and positions on this are worth discussing.

Did you just get sober all of a sudden? 

About the point you raise, the Indo article I linked has the gardai speaking directly to both dimensions you mention:

"On the one hand, there were threats being made against the garda who fired the shots. On the other side, lies are being circulated about the man who died claiming he was a criminal when he was not."

[astfgyl]

What constitutes being a criminal? Serious question

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

What constitutes being a criminal? Serious question

Every person accused of a criminal offence in Ireland is innocent until proven guilty. So, in strict legal terms, an individual can't be referred to as a criminal unless they have been found guilty of a crime. In strict legal terms...being, presumably, the ones the police are choosing to use here.

[astfgyl]

Grand I'm in the clear so if it's only convictions.

I haven't followed the story too closely since the initial reports and I'm sticking with leave it out on all sides because the only certainty at this stage is that it happened and the rest is only speculation, even what the guards are saying

[Pedrito]

In one sentence they berate people for sharing that he had convictions, without proof, while promoting the idea that mental heath issues played a role, without proof. Strange one. Unless I've missed it being confirmed somewhere.

They've already said, as the family have also confirmed, that he was known to them for some amount of time as someone who had mental health issues, so presumably from their house visits the police as an entity had first-hand experience of this.

I hadn't heard of the police previously visiting.

It seems the family themselves had protection orders against him, as he posed a risk to their safety:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf

Officers say they had previously been called to deal with disturbances arising from his behaviour at the house in Manorfields. Members of the family had obtained protection orders against the young man on the basis that he posed a threat to their safety.

I haven't seen that particular detail in any Irish sources.

Needed to respond to this again properly.


They're walking on eggshells here when they shouldn't be. We're only being given a watered down version by the Irish media and we should all be well used to that by now. Wink, wink, read between the lines journalism. The Mayor of Dublin and Minister of Justice went out of their ways to send condolences to the family of a lad who was shot because he might have taken them hostage. Are we living in the twilight zone here?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That Times article is interesting alright, precisely because - as Pedro says - it contains things claimed to have been said by police (I say claimed because it doesn't contain any direct quotes from the guards, unlike some of the Irish articles previously posted), which haven't appeared in Irish articles. Interestingly though, it's things which fall on both sides of how this story is being pulled, whereas if there was a motivated silencing going on in Irish journalism, we should expect anything new from foreign sources to contain mainly things from only the non mainstream Irish side.

Since it's behind a paywall, I'll post the text here, and then cancel the trial I started to access it:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf

Gardai 'had to shoot' George Nkencho under public safety protocols
Officers claim they feared stabbing or hostage situation as protest marches follow killing in Clonee

Gardai involved in the death of George Nkencho, who was shot in his mother's garden after lunging at officers with a knife, insist that lethal force was their only option as they feared that the 27-year-old could stab a garda or take hostages if allowed into his family home.

Minutes before the shooting, officers had tried to subdue Nkencho with pepper spray and a Taser gun.

The death on Wednesday led to criticism and demonstrations in west Dublin — including one outside Blanchardstown garda station yesterday — but garda sources maintain they followed procedure.

Gardai were called after Nkencho assaulted staff at a supermarket in Hartstown, a suburb near the Dublin-Meath border. One victim is said to have been punched in the face and others were threatened with a knife.

Nkencho, who had a history of mental health issues and threatening behaviour, was followed to his mother's home in Clonee by gardai. They say they repeatedly asked him to drop his weapon but he refused to do so.

Officers say they had previously been called to deal with disturbances arising from his behaviour at the house in Manorfields. Members of the family had obtained protection orders against the young man on the basis that he posed a threat to their safety.

Nkencho did not live at the family home but had various addresses in Ireland and Britain. Some sources believe he was moving between properties in Ireland while others say he had returned from the UK to spend Christmas with his family.

After the shooting, some of the dead man's relatives met gardai from Blanchardstown and were told about the decision-making process used by officers at the scene. The force is continuing to offer counselling services to Blessing, the mother of the dead man. Counselling has also been offered to the officers involved in the incident.

Emmanuel Nkencho, the dead man's brother, said his family were devastated by the shooting. "My mother is heartbroken. I don't think she will ever be able to return to that house," he said.

The circumstances surrounding the incident led to protests that included members of the west African community in Dublin. These were organised on social media using the hashtags #JusticeForGeorge and #BlackLivesMatter. After one protest march outside Blanchardstown garda station on Thursday there were disturbances when a gang of youths attacked buses and motorists. A group of up to 150 people broke away from the main group and entered Blanchardstown shopping centre. They later blocked traffic.

Gardai were called to deal with multiple incidents in which members of the public and officers were threatened and intimidated. Security sources stressed that these incidents had nothing to do with the Nkencho family or friends. Some of those involved are thought to be members of a gang that has staged fights in Dublin city centre. Gardai made a decision not to deploy public order units in case it inflamed matters, but officers are looking at footage shared on social media to try to identify those involved.

Efforts are also being made to pin down the source of false information about Nkencho that was circulated on social media after the shooting.

Sunny Kalu, a member of the Nigerian community from Clonee, said that no one in the community condoned the disturbances that followed the shooting. "No one likes the narrative that is now emerging," he said. "People just want answers about what happened.

"Why didn't the gardai stop [George] when he was walking back to his house? There were 15 police officers at the scene. I just don't know why they couldn't pin him down." Kalu added that he did not believe the dead man's race was a factor in the shooting.

Gardai are preparing a policing plan for the dead man's funeral to ensure it complies with public health regulations.

One question from all this, which would be gathering volume much faster if race and false allegations of previous convictions weren't taking up so much space, is (and for the umpteenth time); what are we doing to address and deal with individuals with identified serious and potentially violent mental health issues in Ireland and other countries?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Just checking out the Twitter page of the (Irish) author of that Times article (https://twitter.com/johnmooneyst), and he has shared this tweet from earlier today:
https://twitter.com/TheDarkStatePod/status/1345720597024796675

Reposting the Alt Ireland episode with @aoifegall which examined the rise of the Far Right in Ireland given the spread of online disinformation concerning the killing of #GeorgeNkencho

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

as it Chinese whispers its way around social media and word of mouth

It's not a case of Chinese whispers. What has been disingenuously described here as "one incorrect meme", is in fact an orchestrated, multi-form misinformation campaign which was created from scratch; very different from rumours which get increasingly distorted. This is a lie created in easily shareable forms at point X and then communicated, in that same form, across the world. And you better believe that this story has already gone international among the right wing, including here in France. This shit is done, across the world, because it works, because it bears fruit. No amount of after-the-fact damage limitation or fact correction will wholly eliminate the antagonistic sentiment stoked by the initial emotional reaction stirred; it's neurobiological, it's real. The people who co-ordinate may not know the physiology of why it works, but they do know it works. Just, y'know, try to be aware of it next time something you hear via the internet gets your emotions up; that's when you're vulnerable to manipulation; that's where you get targeted. And that's the hard truth of it, aware or not, if you shared a lie about Nkonche, then you were either a direct or an indirect target of the people who created the content in the first place. It's real and it has consequences - if it didn't, they wouldn't do it. Groups like BLM are aware of this too, and certainly there are movements on the "left" who try to convince and manipulate by similar techniques...but no one here is a target for BLM, so you don't need to worry about getting duped by them.

[Pedrito]

That Times article is interesting alright, precisely because - as Pedro says - it contains things claimed to have been said by police (I say claimed because it doesn't contain any direct quotes from the guards, unlike some of the Irish articles previously posted), which haven't appeared in Irish articles. Interestingly though, it's things which fall on both sides of how this story is being pulled, whereas if there was a motivated silencing going on in Irish journalism, we should expect anything new from foreign sources to contain mainly things from only the non mainstream Irish side.

Since it's behind a paywall, I'll post the text here, and then cancel the trial I started to access it:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf

Gardai 'had to shoot' George Nkencho under public safety protocols
Officers claim they feared stabbing or hostage situation as protest marches follow killing in Clonee

Gardai involved in the death of George Nkencho, who was shot in his mother's garden after lunging at officers with a knife, insist that lethal force was their only option as they feared that the 27-year-old could stab a garda or take hostages if allowed into his family home.

Minutes before the shooting, officers had tried to subdue Nkencho with pepper spray and a Taser gun.

The death on Wednesday led to criticism and demonstrations in west Dublin — including one outside Blanchardstown garda station yesterday — but garda sources maintain they followed procedure.

Gardai were called after Nkencho assaulted staff at a supermarket in Hartstown, a suburb near the Dublin-Meath border. One victim is said to have been punched in the face and others were threatened with a knife.

Nkencho, who had a history of mental health issues and threatening behaviour, was followed to his mother's home in Clonee by gardai. They say they repeatedly asked him to drop his weapon but he refused to do so.

Officers say they had previously been called to deal with disturbances arising from his behaviour at the house in Manorfields. Members of the family had obtained protection orders against the young man on the basis that he posed a threat to their safety.

Nkencho did not live at the family home but had various addresses in Ireland and Britain. Some sources believe he was moving between properties in Ireland while others say he had returned from the UK to spend Christmas with his family.

After the shooting, some of the dead man's relatives met gardai from Blanchardstown and were told about the decision-making process used by officers at the scene. The force is continuing to offer counselling services to Blessing, the mother of the dead man. Counselling has also been offered to the officers involved in the incident.

Emmanuel Nkencho, the dead man's brother, said his family were devastated by the shooting. "My mother is heartbroken. I don't think she will ever be able to return to that house," he said.

The circumstances surrounding the incident led to protests that included members of the west African community in Dublin. These were organised on social media using the hashtags #JusticeForGeorge and #BlackLivesMatter. After one protest march outside Blanchardstown garda station on Thursday there were disturbances when a gang of youths attacked buses and motorists. A group of up to 150 people broke away from the main group and entered Blanchardstown shopping centre. They later blocked traffic.

Gardai were called to deal with multiple incidents in which members of the public and officers were threatened and intimidated. Security sources stressed that these incidents had nothing to do with the Nkencho family or friends. Some of those involved are thought to be members of a gang that has staged fights in Dublin city centre. Gardai made a decision not to deploy public order units in case it inflamed matters, but officers are looking at footage shared on social media to try to identify those involved.

Efforts are also being made to pin down the source of false information about Nkencho that was circulated on social media after the shooting.

Sunny Kalu, a member of the Nigerian community from Clonee, said that no one in the community condoned the disturbances that followed the shooting. "No one likes the narrative that is now emerging," he said. "People just want answers about what happened.

"Why didn't the gardai stop [George] when he was walking back to his house? There were 15 police officers at the scene. I just don't know why they couldn't pin him down." Kalu added that he did not believe the dead man's race was a factor in the shooting.

Gardai are preparing a policing plan for the dead man's funeral to ensure it complies with public health regulations.

One question from all this, which would be gathering volume much faster if race and false allegations of previous convictions weren't taking up so much space, is (and for the umpteenth time); what are we doing to address and deal with individuals with identified serious and potentially violent mental health issues in Ireland and other countries?

Is that not a Donald Trump argument?

[astfgyl]

as it Chinese whispers its way around social media and word of mouth

It's not a case of Chinese whispers. What has been disingenuously described here as "one incorrect meme", is in fact an orchestrated, multi-form misinformation campaign which was created from scratch; very different from rumours which get increasingly distorted. This is a lie created in easily shareable forms at point X and then communicated, in that same form, across the world. And you better believe that this story has already gone international among the right wing, including here in France. This shit is done, across the world, because it works, because it bears fruit. No amount of after-the-fact damage limitation or fact correction will wholly eliminate the antagonistic sentiment stoked by the initial emotional reaction stirred; it's neurobiological, it's real. The people who co-ordinate may not know the physiology of why it works, but they do know it works. Just, y'know, try to be aware of it next time something you hear via the internet gets your emotions up; that's when you're vulnerable to manipulation; that's where you get targeted. And that's the hard truth of it, aware or not, if you shared a lie about Nkonche, then you were either a direct or an indirect target of the people who created the content in the first place. It's real and it has consequences - if it didn't, they wouldn't do it. Groups like BLM are aware of this too, and certainly there are movements on the "left" who try to convince and manipulate by similar techniques...but no one here is a target for BLM, so you don't need to worry about getting duped by them.

Yeah that back story is all fair enough about it being orchestrated and I don't disagree with it but even that will grow legs as it makes its way around so the Chinese whispers element still stands. Like any other story doing the rounds.

I still reckon the reason any of this shit gains traction in either direction is because the machine wants more clicks and it keeps feeding the masses who are spiritually starving and need the illusion of validation so they can at least pretend the gaping existential hole inside them is being even temporarily filled before moving forward to the next fad. Unfortunately then this situation is known and regularly exploited for political gains and furthering of agendas of all kinds. It's not nice.

[Kurt Cocaine]

This is a very complex issue. I'd imagine all angles and positions on this are worth discussing.

Did you just get sober all of a sudden? 

About the point you raise, the Indo article I linked has the gardai speaking directly to both dimensions you mention:

"On the one hand, there were threats being made against the garda who fired the shots. On the other side, lies are being circulated about the man who died claiming he was a criminal when he was not."

Yawn.

Yet again I'll ask, how is it that a lad can publicly call for the life of a 'fed' in this country and (thus far) get away with it? And how is it deemed less newsworthy (one mention in the article you provided) than some internet gobshite posting misinformation about a (totally justified) dead scumbag?

[Kurt Cocaine]

Headline should be:

"Hero Garda Downs Rampaging Knife Wielding Thug"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/george-nkencho-shooting-inquiry-will-look-at-graduated-use-of-force-1.4448355

[Kurt Cocaine]

Your own article from the Independent with the headline....

Garda worry over Nkencho shooting 'lies'

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-worry-over-nkencho-shooting-lies-39924798.html

Again, the headline should have been all about the life being threatened of a member of our national police force. Not a dead thug....