The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[mickO)))]

I see the riots in Leeds have finally stopped.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Immigration has always been and still is far from the greatest contributor to cultural dilution in Ireland. As a young teenager, I had to make a pointed independent effort in order to make sure I properly learned my own language. That should never have been the case for any Irish person post Independence. And we're talking 1993, so sweet fuck all to do with immigration. I convinced my mother to let me switch school to a Gaelscoil in Bray. In my class were three kids of African descent, busing to Bray from all over Wicklow, because their parents had decided they wanted their children to embrace and be as much a part of Irish culture as possible. Do I see those former peers as more Irish, as truer comrades in enriching Irish culture back from dilution, than some "nationalist" without a focal beyond "leithreas"? Damn right I do.

[mickO)))]

If that were the way things were right now it would be grand and very few if any would have problems but the current situation is completely different.

Protesting has been going on in Dundrum because they are planning on putting 550 new arrivals into the Dundrum house hotel when the local population is currently 221. Then of those 550 each person will be entitled to apply under the family reunification act to bring over 6 more family members meaning the migrant population down there could reach 3300 in no time. No engagement from the Government or the American hotel owner on this according to the locals.

The hotel currently has 270 Ukrainians that the locals apparently welcomed last year as this was only suppose to be a temporary thing. They are all being evicted to make way for the new arrivals.

[astfgyl]

I think foreign lads can be integrated quite successfully but not in the sheer numbers we are seeing. The situation as we have it is driven by greed and profit rather than any humanitarian cause and the refugees welcome crowd are simply useful idiots in that particular game even though I do believe most at ground level are well meaning. The bigger picture is that the Irish are leaving in their droves and being replaced with african and middle eastern folk. The ukrainians actually seem to be in the minority when it comes to the new faces in town which I don't think most folk foresaw at all. I think kids of foreign nationals can be Irish even if the parents aren't but giving a lad an Irish passport does not make them Irish, it just makes them an Irish citizen which is not the same thing. My Nigerian pal at work never claims to be Irish and refers to Nigeria as "my country" when we chat about it even though she has the passport but her kids are born here and act Irish and nobody thinks anything of that, it's regular integration.

Regarding colonialism in third world countries, well I don't think the Irish have much of the blame for any of that so should not have to suffer the consequences of it now. Let lads apply to come here in defined numbers and the whole thing is fixed overnight. Indians coming here are a great example of making it work IMO, they are running businesses and taking out mortgages and paying serious tax and contributing a lot more than many of the Irish themselves. Contrast that with the Roma gypsies begging in every doorway in the cities and we can see that they are not net contributors no matter how it's dressed up. The overall message of foreigners out etc does not take into account that a lot of them are the solid finest and won't be filling up prison places or making life hard for gardai but the movement is still growing because of the forced nature of the installations.

I'm getting more traditional myself the more I see the national identity being diluted, which is likely an age thing as much as anything else but I feel everyone I meet is shifting a little to the right these days and the cause of that needs to be addressed as much as anything else

Re Dundrum, the hotel is currently the local prostitution hub (I know a couple of lads who go there for a bit) and there has been one murder there too. Anyone unfamiliar with Dundrum should drive through it at least once and see why this simply will not work out for the best if the current plans are to go ahead. It's simply not viable and should not be legal either

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If that were the way things were right now it would be grand and very few if any would have problems but the current situation is completely different.

Protesting has been going on in Dundrum because they are planning on putting 550 new arrivals into the Dundrum house hotel when the local population is currently 221. Then of those 550 each person will be entitled to apply under the family reunification act to bring over 6 more family members meaning the migrant population down there could reach 3300 in no time. No engagement from the Government or the American hotel owner on this according to the locals.

The hotel currently has 270 Ukrainians that the locals apparently welcomed last year as this was only suppose to be a temporary thing. They are all being evicted to make way for the new arrivals.

I know yeah, I follow it all closely. Though it's 255 not 550 and the 3300 number is extreme propagandist fantasy (you seriously need to start questioning whatever your sources on this stuff are - they seem to be systematically incorrect, and always in one direction):
https://gript.ie/dundrum-locals-being-treated-with-utter-contempt-on-asylum-centre-says-td/

But what's one of the things the locals were hoping for and are going to be let down about again? Reinvigoration of local community services and re-establishment of local business. All of this absolutely has to be attended to; these are communities that were left to die long ago and, for the umpteenth time, it suits FFG down to the fucking ground that more noise is coming now about refugees than was ever made about the actual business of community reconstruction. Why? Because it gets them away with the "utter contempt" (as the headline there accurately puts it) they absolutely do hold the locals in.

[astfgyl]

Yeah the higher number is certainly exaggerated but you're right about that community being left to rot long before any of this. I don't live too far from there and regularly pass through it and it has a pure symbol of suburban decay right slap bang as the centrepiece of the village for the last couple of decades in the old hotel and nightclub there. Tbh a lot of the damage was done to these places when the motorways were built and you can see it all over the country in similar sized towns. 2008 crash also saw decentralisation half abandoned when it was designed to address some of these issues. I think the shit needs to be tightened out of the immigration here until a lot of things are set in the right direction and then we would see less resistance altogether when we opened it up again

[mickO)))]

I know yeah, I follow it all closely. Though it's 255 not 550 and the 3300 number is extreme propagandist fantasy (you seriously need to start questioning whatever your sources on this stuff are - they seem to be systematically incorrect, and always in one direction):
https://gript.ie/dundrum-locals-being-treated-with-utter-contempt-on-asylum-centre-says-td/

But what's one of the things the locals were hoping for and are going to be let down about again? Reinvigoration of local community services and re-establishment of local business. All of this absolutely has to be attended to; these are communities that were left to die long ago and, for the umpteenth time, it suits FFG down to the fucking ground that more noise is coming now about refugees than was ever made about the actual business of community reconstruction. Why? Because it gets them away with the "utter contempt" (as the headline there accurately puts it) they absolutely do hold the locals in.

It is 550 beds and with what these hotel owners are being paid by the Government do you really think they won't do whatever it takes to fill those beds? Under family reunification each person is entitled to bring over 6 family members so 3300 is hardly an 'extreme propagandist fantasy' it's very possible that the numbers will grow to this.

As for my sources going in one direction thanks because coming from you that really made me laugh.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Tell you what, the day there are 3300 refugees somehow accommodated in Dundrum, Tipperary I'll give you a hundred quid.

[astfgyl]

If that were the way things were right now it would be grand and very few if any would have problems but the current situation is completely different.

Protesting has been going on in Dundrum because they are planning on putting 550 new arrivals into the Dundrum house hotel when the local population is currently 221. Then of those 550 each person will be entitled to apply under the family reunification act to bring over 6 more family members meaning the migrant population down there could reach 3300 in no time. No engagement from the Government or the American hotel owner on this according to the locals.

The hotel currently has 270 Ukrainians that the locals apparently welcomed last year as this was only suppose to be a temporary thing. They are all being evicted to make way for the new arrivals.

I know yeah, I follow it all closely. Though it's 255 not 550 and the 3300 number is extreme propagandist fantasy (you seriously need to start questioning whatever your sources on this stuff are - they seem to be systematically incorrect, and always in one direction):
https://gript.ie/dundrum-locals-being-treated-with-utter-contempt-on-asylum-centre-says-td/

But what's one of the things the locals were hoping for and are going to be let down about again? Reinvigoration of local community services and re-establishment of local business. All of this absolutely has to be attended to; these are communities that were left to die long ago and, for the umpteenth time, it suits FFG down to the fucking ground that more noise is coming now about refugees than was ever made about the actual business of community reconstruction. Why? Because it gets them away with the "utter contempt" (as the headline there accurately puts it) they absolutely do hold the locals in.

Didn't I say he was a Shinner....



I am not the only one who notices that the option to not have them is not an option.

Where in that statement does Mary Lou say that it can be stopped at all? Nowhere.

There is no opposition to this. Read the statement.

You must be re-educated but you cannot refuse it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

SF's greatest negative point is that they lack integrity, but yeah I agree with a lot of their stated goals, sure.

About being able to refuse the housing of people in a given community, there are certainly concrete legal considerations there and, as I said, I don't personally know what legal recourse there is in established law for such refusal:

As far as I know, legally speaking there simply is no such "veto." Someone else can confirm. "We don't want foreign unvetted military aged men moving in here" is certainly a zero legal basis demand.

Is the head of SF going to propose changing the law to facilitate communities refusing to allow refugees be housed in or beside their communities? No. Even if they themselves thought that would be an improvement to the law, it would be suicide in terms of electoral support. Because don't forget that, in terms of real numbers, all the "concerned locals" combined are still not a majority. So then:

long term, of course people can push to radically overhaul the entire legal and political system of the country regarding asylum seeking, etc. But again, even on that, they'd want to be getting much, much, much smarter in how they go about things.

SF's whole schtick is just what ML pushes in that letter: investment in community services, resources, amenities. Up until they stupidly (in terms of electoral support) wavered on the issue, their strategy had been to embrace immigration and instrumentalize it as increased leverage for just that kind of investment in both social services and housing. That is a potentially effective means for concerned locals to actually end up with improved community services they themselves will also benefit from. If, on the other hand, concerned locals primarily want no asylum seekers living near them, more than they want improved services, etc., then they can keep on marching in step with the far right head the balls who merely discredit them. And while they protest and clamour and inevitably end up discrediting themselves over that, FFG won't budge on anything, certainly not serious investment in community services, since those actions make the ultimate cause seem to be racism. My belief would be that, as with most crime also, the majority cause is the social deprivation itself. Have FFG ever done anything about social deprivation to reduce crime? No. Will they do anything about social deprivation to reduce resentment over refugees and asylum seekers? Also no. Are their ultimate reasons for inaction on social deprivation in both scenarios the same? Yes.

[Emphyrio]

Yet another fire in Coolock. Is the area not being policed? Obviously not.

[son of the Morrigan]

SF's greatest negative point is that they lack integrity, but yeah I agree with a lot of their stated goals, sure.

About being able to refuse the housing of people in a given community, there are certainly concrete legal considerations there and, as I said, I don't personally know what legal recourse there is in established law for such refusal:

As far as I know, legally speaking there simply is no such "veto." Someone else can confirm. "We don't want foreign unvetted military aged men moving in here" is certainly a zero legal basis demand.

Is the head of SF going to propose changing the law to facilitate communities refusing to allow refugees be housed in or beside their communities? No. Even if they themselves thought that would be an improvement to the law, it would be suicide in terms of electoral support. Because don't forget that, in terms of real numbers, all the "concerned locals" combined are still not a majority. So then:

long term, of course people can push to radically overhaul the entire legal and political system of the country regarding asylum seeking, etc. But again, even on that, they'd want to be getting much, much, much smarter in how they go about things.

SF's whole schtick is just what ML pushes in that letter: investment in community services, resources, amenities. Up until they stupidly (in terms of electoral support) wavered on the issue, their strategy had been to embrace immigration and instrumentalize it as increased leverage for just that kind of investment in both social services and housing. That is a potentially effective means for concerned locals to actually end up with improved community services they themselves will also benefit from. If, on the other hand, concerned locals primarily want no asylum seekers living near them, more than they want improved services, etc., then they can keep on marching in step with the far right head the balls who merely discredit them. And while they protest and clamour and inevitably end up discrediting themselves over that, FFG won't budge on anything, certainly not serious investment in community services, since those actions make the ultimate cause seem to be racism. My belief would be that, as with most crime also, the majority cause is the social deprivation itself. Have FFG ever done anything about social deprivation to reduce crime? No. Will they do anything about social deprivation to reduce resentment over refugees and asylum seekers? Also no. Are their ultimate reasons for inaction on social deprivation in both scenarios the same? Yes.

That's what planning permission is for man, to give people the right to object to proposed developments which may negatively affect them or their community. this by any standard is a de facto veto, should enough people object on reasonable grounds.
As pointed out a few pages ago, last year our corrupt legislators gave themselves the right to bypass planning for IPAS centres and in doing so denied people the right to legally object to such developments, which quiet frankly is a fucking disgusting move and massive governmental over-reach.
So when they say "people don't have a veto" its because their right to veto has been taken from them.
Its a fucking disgrace.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

There was an entire new planning bill introduced last year, very controversial, with environmentalists, SF & Soc-Dem & PBP TDs, and many others railing against it. I don't know the nitty gritty of how that new bill specifically impacts transforming already existent buildings into emergency IPAS accommodation (as is the case for Dundrum, Tipp. and Coolock), or even the construction of temporary pre-fab or marquee style accommodation. What I've gathered is that the new bill was widely perceived by its critics as something conceived to make things easier for housing developers and that this was supposedly off the back of refusal of planning permission for a development in Greystones which, afaik, was nothing to do with IPAS (https://www.ontheditch.com/unpublished-attorney-general-advice-housing-minister/).

Like I've said several times now, I don't know the nitty gritty of it, so if someone has a properly sourced run down of how the new bill impacts IPAS accommodation specifically, great, let's have a look. Meantime, do I think it's more likely that FFG drafted a new bill to favour developers in general than to favour asylum seekers specifically? Yes. Do I think planning permission is good and that communities should have a say in any permanent physical transformation of their communities? Yes (although, being from Greystones myself and me ma still living there, I've seen up close and personal my fair share of community reservations being utterly ignored and developers who are cronies with local politicians getting their way to permanently deface the landscape regardless, which again was nothing to do with IPAS). It's always been a battle and potentially successful sensible strategies need as much support as possible. "Get them out!", etc., is not only about the furthest from sensible strategy you can imagine but it also pulls support away from potentially successful ones. Perfect for FFG. Perfect. Just perfect. It just really cannot be stressed enough how perfect it is for FFG that popular support get pissed against the IrelandIsFull wall.

[son of the Morrigan]

There was an entire new planning bill introduced last year, very controversial, with environmentalists, SF & Soc-Dem & PBP TDs, and many others railing against it. I don't know the nitty gritty of how that new bill specifically impacts transforming already existent buildings into emergency IPAS accommodation (as is the case for Dundrum, Tipp. and Coolock), or even the construction of temporary pre-fab or marquee style accommodation. What I've gathered is that the new bill was widely perceived by its critics as something conceived to make things easier for housing developers and that this was supposedly off the back of refusal of planning permission for a development in Greystones which, afaik, was nothing to do with IPAS (https://www.ontheditch.com/unpublished-attorney-general-advice-housing-minister/).

Like I've said several times now, I don't know the nitty gritty of it, so if someone has a properly sourced run down of how the new bill impacts IPAS accommodation specifically, great, let's have a look. Meantime, do I think it's more likely that FFG drafted a new bill to favour developers in general than to favour asylum seekers specifically? Yes. Do I think planning permission is good and that communities should have a say in any permanent physical transformation of their communities? Yes (although, being from Greystones myself and me ma still living there, I've seen up close and personal my fair share of community reservations being utterly ignored and developers who are cronies with local politicians getting their way to permanently deface the landscape regardless, which again was nothing to do with IPAS). It's always been a battle and potentially successful sensible strategies need as much support as possible. "Get them out!", etc., is not only about the furthest from sensible strategy you can imagine but it also pulls support away from potentially successful ones. Perfect for FFG. Perfect. Just perfect. It just really cannot be stressed enough how perfect it is for FFG that popular support get pissed against the IrelandIsFull wall.

I agree with your general assessment there man, it does suit them perfectly.
Like yourself I haven't read the legislation yet and I'm loath to talk about something I haven't verified but I'd imagine its typical of the many birds with one stone legislation that appears to be acceptable these days, in that it benefits both private developers, the private companies running the centres and government policy, at our expense. 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Kevin Coyle not being too bright by apparently trespassing on the Crown Paints property, but if ye want to see the extent of the fire damage here it is. Four fires in four days in the end.
https://x.com/KajDbc32/status/1814960075317928112