Backing Tracks

[Cryptic Stench]

With Kiss getting a bit of heat over their use of backing tracks at the minute, I thought the topic was worthy of discussion . They're certainly not the only ones playing to backing tracks, Wasp, Motley Crue, Def Leppard all do it, but younger acts are at it too. Ghost for example use a ton of pre-recorded material and Behemoth used a shitload of vocal and prerecorded music to boost the sound last week. It doesn't detract from a good show in some instances but on the other it's not really a "live" experience. There's fewer and fewer bands giving a pure live show.

[Emphyrio]

With Kiss getting a bit of heat over their use of backing tracks at the minute, I thought the topic was worthy of discussion . They're certainly not the only ones playing to backing tracks, Wasp, Motley Crue, Def Leppard all do it, but younger acts are at it too. Ghost for example use a ton of pre-recorded material and Behemoth used a shitload of vocal and prerecorded music to boost the sound last week. It doesn't detract from a good show in some instances but on the other it's not really a "live" experience. There's fewer and fewer bands giving a pure live show.

We use backing tracks, and in no uncertain terms, it is a form of cheating. However, for us it's always been pretty much a necessity. In an ideal world I'd have a keys/synths player on both left and right side with two instruments each. Clearly that's next to impossible as we'd need 2 like-minded musicians, ideally local, and that's before getting into the logistics of the whole thing.

Manic Street Preachers were the first band I think I took notice to backing tracks, but Paradise Lost have done it, which kinda gave me a certain free rein to do it too. God Is used have loadsa stuff programmed but now I see that as a 5-piece they're able to do it all live.

[Cryptic Stench]

God is an Astronaut doing it, I don't consider cheating, but a pure rock band is different in my opinion . What band are you in dude?


I'm talking about bands like Ghost, Behemoth it's a different thing. Behemoth had all the backing vocals piped through, it's just not the same as immolation going out and bashing it out.

Paradise lost thread close too. I understand some of the keys and samples but nicks vocals are assisted with pre recorded material, especially if it's a melodic vocal.

While I'm at it Burton C Bell uses a ton of backing tracks to assist himself, his live vocals are dire so it's really obvious when he's receiving help!

[Giggles]

What band are you in dude?

Hey now don't go asking questions you're not willing to answer yourself   

[Emphyrio]

God is an Astronaut doing it, I don't consider cheating, but a pure rock band is different in my opinion . What band are you in dude?


I'm talking about bands like Ghost, Behemoth it's a different thing. Behemoth had all the backing vocals piped through, it's just not the same as immolation going out and bashing it out.

Paradise lost thread close too. I understand some of the keys and samples but nicks vocals are assisted with pre recorded material, especially if it's a melodic vocal.

While I'm at it Burton C Bell uses a ton of backing tracks to assist himself, his live vocals are dire so it's really obvious when he's receiving help!

Ya, I've always given God Is a pass. I think that kind of style gets away with it. As for myself, I play in Dark Matter.

And as lenient as I am for backing tracks, I still feel like vocals pre-recorded is a bit lame. Double standards, I know, but...

[Cryptic Stench]

Nah it's not double standards. Something used to embellish is one thing, a vocal or pre recorded guitars etc is cheating.

Dark Matter I wouldn't have brought into it the same way I'd give GIAA a pass.

[Trev]

Devin Townsend always used a fair bit, toned down a lot in recent years but his stuff is usually so layered that it would probably sound a bit thin live without it

[Juggz]

It was a bit of a let-down when I saw Rush and copped how many backing tracks they were using. I agree that, for vocals especially, it does feel like a bit of a jip. I'd rather have it raw and live than trying to sound full like the album when sounding like the album requires backing tracks. I can understand why it's done so much these days, it must be a cunt having every gig on youtube within minutes ready to be picked apart by armchair critics, but live should be full-on and balls-out, not perfect.

[ochoill]

Depends how it's used.  I give a lot of bands free pass for the likes of synth, keys, etc.  Prerecorded samples too obviously.  Drum machines are equally fine for me.  But guitar and vocal backing tracks, in metal, are a fair cop out as far as I'm concerned.  In other genres it can work eg. samples of guitar at an electronic gig, but you need to have that raw live element when gigging rock or metal.  Bigger bands do use a lot of it, a certain amount gets a pass but using rhythm guitar tracks is a big fuckin no.

We use backing tracks, and in no uncertain terms, it is a form of cheating. However, for us it's always been pretty much a necessity. In an ideal world I'd have a keys/synths player on both left and right side with two instruments each. Clearly that's next to impossible as we'd need 2 like-minded musicians, ideally local, and that's before getting into the logistics of the whole thing.

I would have never considered the way ye use it as cheating, it's a complete necessity and again it's keys so it gets leeway.  Ye could get one synth/keys player to do it but there's no need - like you said, finding them locally and then working the rest of running a band around it is tough.

To be fair we played live for the bones of two years with a laptop for both drums and keys and never had any complaints.  I like using a drum machine, depending on the type of stuff it is.  To get around it on album, we tracked everything else live off the floor and used the best takes per song - no reamping, no overdubs, so there's still a ragged element to it that I love in music.  Working within self imposed limits.  Now we have a real drummer, so we dropped the keys entirely, fiddled the guitar tones a bit, and play as a 4 piece with no backing.  I much, much prefer playing and writing with a drummer over a machine but would still never turn my nose up at fake drums and would happily use them again in another project.

Edit: Just had to add in that when I first started out in bands, we played gigs using a Playstation and Music 2000 for drums and keys but with the rest of the band live.  It was dodge but it fuckin worked, and is severely gas to think back on.  Loading tunes up off a memory card on stage 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I guess no one's looking to do live rock the way they used to. Try doing something like this with a backing track...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NNRAXWjGBc

[The Butcher]

Yeah next to impossible to have 2 keyboardists so I think having the synths/samples as backing tracks for gigs is completely acceptable. Vocals/guitars on the other hand feels like a big cop out alright, way prefer seeing the bassist or guitarist or whoever do the backing vocals.

Disadvantages to backing tracks is losing the spontaneity that usually comes with a live gig, plus if the drummer goes out of time with the backing tracks then the song quickly becomes a mess. Plus how disappointed would you be if Nirvana came out and kept to a backing track? You wouldn't expect them to but I'd expect it from Septicflesh/Dimmu Borgir/Cradle of filth etc.

[Cryptic Stench]

losing the spontaneity

Makes it utterly sterile. Fine if you're Pitchshifter etc but as I said earlier, Inexcusable for the likes of Ghost and Wasp etc. At The Gates and WITTR sounded so raw compared to Behemoth last week but Behemoth's live sound is so fucking artificial.

And on the topic of Nirvana, I remember getting the Jeremy single by Pearl Jam upon it's release, it was backed by a live version of Alive, I couldn't get over how cool it sounded, all the acoustic guitars and effects present on the record had been dropped and it sounded so much heavier. I think with advances in technology etc a band putting that out now would insisted on playing live accompanied by those embelishments.

The playing to a click live is ultra annoying, there's nothing better than hearing something that's a few BPM faster than the record.

[Emphyrio]

What's the consensus on looper pedals?  I'm toying with the idea of picking one up but I'd need one with memory slots. For example, if 2 separate guitar parts come in simultaneously, it's impossible to record one bar of a loop and then add the additional guitar layers on subsequent loops.

I've been making do with just going with either single rhythm or lead lines on certain parts and wondering would it be worth my while having a loop pre-recorded on a pedal or is it too similar to having guitars on backing tracks, which I think we all agree, are kinda lame.

[Cryptic Stench]

Loop pedals are fine, it's an art in itself to master them properly. Have a look at Minus The Bear's Rig Rundown, their guitarist Corey uses a phenomenal setup, still sounds more "live" than a backing track.

[Pedrito]

The whole thing that is impressive about Nirvana, Pearl Jam etc is that the producers of those albums were bloody geniuses. They took, what were essentially punk rock bands, with amazing songs, and took them to levels unheard of. People get confused. The band rarely ever sound like they do on the album, at least not beforehand, at least not back in the 90's. Metallica spent god knows how long on the BLack album. It's not an accident that it sold so many albums...it was produced incredibly with mountains of guitar, and yet it almost sounds like four lads jamming..that's the genius of proper music producers.

As for backing tracks..I'd say tonnes of bands are at it now. It kinda makes sense if your.music has tonnes of layering and synth etc and you can't afford to have 10 lads in a band. It's vgrand if you're Pink floyd, but most bands need to split the profits between them, and the fewer members you have the better. If you're a kok n balls death metal band that is all about crunchy guitars and blast beats then the whole backing thing probably doesnt even apply anyway.

This video of U2 from the mixing desk very good. I don't deny they're a great band love, but interesting how 4 lads who know how to use technology and have a massive set up behind them can take a pretty decent song and transform it into a stadium filler

https://youtu.be/IagcDon-ZJk

Also, plenty od big metal bands, who are incredible in medium.settings sound awful on massive stages, basically because their music isn't appropriate to the venue. Megadeth don't sound great in a stadium setting, at least what I've seen of them, and yet in the confines of the Ulster Hall or the likes, they are incredible. Metallica, again, went for that Black sound as a means to fill stadiums. The AJFA songs wouldnt have had that same crowd moving ability that the likes of the Black songs, no matter what your opinion on the quality of either album.

So, I guess, it all depends on the band, the songs/style and the types of venues on whether backing tracks should be used. I saw Rush a few times and without an element of backing, I think the overall sound would have been very weak only coming from a 3 piece, as great as they are. Horses for courses stuff.