The Tube.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

It's not too far removed from the elf/hobbit love angle they threw into The Hobbit.

It might turn out to be like that, as in, it might turn out to be utter shite, but adding a badly written love story is not at all the same thing as casting people of different skin colours. Not to mention that any lore the new series might fuck with is, let's say, very well hidden lore. Only a tiny minority of even LOTR and The Hobbit (books, I mean) fans would be equipped to have any kind of informed opinion, based on the JRR and Christopher Tolkien texts, as to what has been altered. The LOTR films introduced some quite significant changes compared to the books, but they worked within the context of the films. The Hobbit films introduced massive narrative and stylistic changes (dwarf doing a spinning axe attack in a barrel, for example), and they didn't work even within the context of the films. Even if they'd cast a black actress to play Galadriel herself in the new series, that would still leave enough margin, within the context of the series, for it to be less of a tonal rape of the source material. The Hobbit couldn't be accused of being "woke" or "diversity" driven, and the new series, as "woke" as some may perceive it, will really have its work cut out for it to be worse than The Hobbit "trilogy". Diversity in the casting will have nothing to do with that (see for example Armando Ianucci's excellent David Copperfield, cast seemingly with the express intent of annoying tedious anti-PC people). But all that said, of course, of course the whole thing might turn out to be shite. I'll still be very impressed if it turns out to be more shite, more of a massive "fuck you" to Tolkien, than The Hobbit movies. Which are an abomination, and not only, not even primarily, because of that love story.

[Eoin McLove]

I have tried to watch David Copperfield and found it jarring that the characters were all different colours. That's just the way film has gone now, you can't escape it. I think my main issue with the bit of the film that I did watch was how nice and pleasant it all felt. Reading Dickens is usually more of a grim and brutal experience and that's certainly the case with the David Copperfield novel which I read recently (apart from the tedious mawkish parts about his missus).

Edit. I liked the look of the LOTR ad.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Same thing though. Ultimately it comes down to whether something is entertaining on its own merits or not, exactly as you were agreeing with respect to a Pantera reunion. Some things go way, way off the source material and are excellent. Some things do their best to stick to the source material and are shite. In short, with just countless examples over the history of cinema and TV, faithfulness to the source material is no guarantee of quality of the final product. Things have to be judged in and of themselves.

[Caomhaoin]

I don't blame Amazon for the oh-so-trendy diversity, they likely view an all white cast as more bother than it's worth. Nevertheless, it's still another level of belief suspension for Johnny subscriber to put with.

I'll give it a few episodes, if I have the time (you've plenty of time to be polluting this forum, bigot, wha'?).

[Emphyrio]

Nevertheless, it's still another level of belief suspension for Johnny subscriber to put with.

On the plus side, it's outta the way now so hopefully can go into it in September and not be disgruntled about it. As long as there isn't too much maggot acting with other stuff...

That reminds me, remember they shoehorned an Ed Sheeran cameo into Game of Thrones. Jaysus that was chronic.

[Caomhaoin]

And yer man from This is England.

Which was just a young actor working away, not a ginger fraud shoehorning himself into the latest thing.

[astfgyl]

It's not too far removed from the elf/hobbit love angle they threw into The Hobbit.

It might turn out to be like that, as in, it might turn out to be utter shite, but adding a badly written love story is not at all the same thing as casting people of different skin colours. Not to mention that any lore the new series might fuck with is, let's say, very well hidden lore. Only a tiny minority of even LOTR and The Hobbit (books, I mean) fans would be equipped to have any kind of informed opinion, based on the JRR and Christopher Tolkien texts, as to what has been altered. The LOTR films introduced some quite significant changes compared to the books, but they worked within the context of the films. The Hobbit films introduced massive narrative and stylistic changes (dwarf doing a spinning axe attack in a barrel, for example), and they didn't work even within the context of the films. Even if they'd cast a black actress to play Galadriel herself in the new series, that would still leave enough margin, within the context of the series, for it to be less of a tonal rape of the source material. The Hobbit couldn't be accused of being "woke" or "diversity" driven, and the new series, as "woke" as some may perceive it, will really have its work cut out for it to be worse than The Hobbit "trilogy". Diversity in the casting will have nothing to do with that (see for example Armando Ianucci's excellent David Copperfield, cast seemingly with the express intent of annoying tedious anti-PC people). But all that said, of course, of course the whole thing might turn out to be shite. I'll still be very impressed if it turns out to be more shite, more of a massive "fuck you" to Tolkien, than The Hobbit movies. Which are an abomination, and not only, not even primarily, because of that love story.

While I agree with what you're saying in terms of impact on the integrity of the representation of the source material you know in your heart and soul that it's a quota driven load of shit that has studios casting for diversity even if you don't mind it. It is what it is and it won't put me off watching the thing as long as it's done well but may call a spade a spade.

I'm one of the poor fuckers who's read The Silmarillion and I have to say it's one of the worst books I've ever read, right up there with The Holy Bible in terms of boring and lack of empathy with the characters so as far as it goes they can do what the fuck they like with that lore and you're dead right no-one will notice a thing.

Edit: The Hobbit films are piss poor indeed but I didn't think the book was up to much either when compared to LOTR. They could've had one decent 3 hour epic out of it but they fucked it up bad

[astfgyl]

Nevertheless, it's still another level of belief suspension for Johnny subscriber to put with.

On the plus side, it's outta the way now so hopefully can go into it in September and not be disgruntled about it. As long as there isn't too much maggot acting with other stuff...

That reminds me, remember they shoehorned an Ed Sheeran cameo into Game of Thrones. Jaysus that was chronic.

That was a real low blow at the time so it was. I knew the thing was fucked before that though, in season 5 right when that bird from the sand snakes says to Bronn "you want the baaad pussayy". There was never going to be any coming back from that. Jesus why did I have to start thinking about that again

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I find the nature of the reactions to the casting of non-white people as elves (fantastical beings, lest we not forget) far more embarrassing and damning for the current state of the human race than I find the idea of diversity casting. Nobody has any problem with suspension of disbelief, but suspension of prejudice and political affiliations, that causes huge problems. Dragons, supreme beings, grand, can imagine that. Black elves! BLACK ELVES!! *brain meltdown, must join social media klan rally asap*

[Emphyrio]

Nevertheless, it's still another level of belief suspension for Johnny subscriber to put with.

On the plus side, it's outta the way now so hopefully can go into it in September and not be disgruntled about it. As long as there isn't too much maggot acting with other stuff...

That reminds me, remember they shoehorned an Ed Sheeran cameo into Game of Thrones. Jaysus that was chronic.

season 5 right when that bird from the sand snakes says to Bronn "you want the baaad pussayy".

FFS😂 The warning signs were there alright!

[Ollkiller]

Season 5 of GOT was where they didn't have the books to rely on anymore. Christ it went downhill so fast. First 4 seasons are amazing.

As for LOTR. That trailer has got me interested again as the previous teasers were woeful. As for the casting. Couldn't give a flying fuck. Hopefully Amazon don't fuck it up like the wheel of time. Which was awful.

[astfgyl]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I find the nature of the reactions to the casting of non-white people as elves (fantastical beings, lest we not forget) far more embarrassing and damning for the current state of the human race than I find the idea of diversity casting. Nobody has any problem with suspension of disbelief, but suspension of prejudice and political affiliations, that causes huge problems. Dragons, supreme beings, grand, can imagine that. Black elves! BLACK ELVES!! *brain meltdown, must join social media klan rally asap*

I said I wasn't against it but it it is what it is. Pointless pandering. You wouldn't have Jim Carrey as Shaft or Malcolm X played by Ethan Hawke and the reason is because it'd be silly. Like the black Anne Boleyn thing, silly.

The books described what the elves looked like so that's why that's being mentioned. I do still broadly agree with your points though, it won't matter if the show is good and it's fantasy anyway.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Do you really want a list of white actors who played famously non-white characters, including actual historical ones, in big cinema and TV productions over the years? Without anybody saying anything at the time? Apparently that was just dandy, and yet the same folks who would bend over backwards to defend blackface back in the day are the ones saying it's ludicrous for an elf, AN ELF, to be played by a non-white actor. Sorry, but there's no avenue along which you don't lose that debate flat out on precedent.

[astfgyl]

Elves fair enough but you still know what I mean. Actually people should be more concerned about why the elves have pointy ears than what colour they are because they were never described as such at all by Tolkien. Casting white actors as what should be black people is stupid too while it's mentioned. And racist, but we'd hope to have moved on from both that and affirmative action, so the Shaft and Malcolm X points still stand as does the Anne Boleyn one because I'm taking about now not 50 years ago. Using the historical argument is like saying it's grand to lynch white people now because the black folk used to have to put up with it. Anyway the idea is to appeal to a wider audience so it's just going to be that from now on and no-one will give a fuck soon enough, even the few who give a shite now. But not caring (which I don't) doesn't stop one from calling it what it is, which is diversity quota filling.

[astfgyl]

Anyway, to move on from the pointless and circular arguments and back to the telly, I've been watching moonshiners on the dodgy box. Absolute horseshit but sometimes the real mindless stuff hits the spot and it keeps the missus away from the TLC.