Brexit

[Juggz]

There are that many pig-headed cunts involved, I'd be putting my money on crashy-crashy.

[Wiseblood]

Is May not angling for another vote all the while trying to make it look like she's running the show? The impression I always get is that while she knew that the leave vote won, that she would be just as happy to remain.

[Eoin McLove]

Political suicide,  but maybe she's happy to take the hit if that's what she perceives to be the greater good.  On the other hand,  Europe don't seem very interested in any further negotiations so I can't really see what difference the leadership makes.  Could Corbyn, or anybody else have managed a better deal?

[Wiseblood]

Not much give with Brussels at all and no UK leader was going to change that. Instead of signalling that a possible UK leave could or should trigger badly needed reform, the approach has been to be bullish and make other countries afraid to leave for fear of recriminations.... hardly a great way to run the club.

[Juggz]

They were never, ever, ever going to make leaving look like an attractive proposition.

[Wiseblood]

True. What a total shitfest....

[Juggz]

One has to laugh at Boris Johnson proclaiming that they can now use their impending economic apocalypse as leverage against the EU for a better deal. The medicine shortage must have already started.

[Eoin McLove]

Yeah,  it seems quite bizarre that some of them see the disarray in Westminster as some sort of threat to the EU. It borders on the fantastical.

[Juggz]

Of course, the real downside to this is that it looks like there'll be a hard border to the North in just a couple of months unless there is a very unlikely U-turn on this shitshow. What a total fucking disaster.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Of course, the real downside to this is that it looks like there'll be a hard border to the North in just a couple of months unless there is a very unlikely U-turn on this shitshow. What a total fucking disaster.

I pass through Contae Ard Mhacha twice a day on my way to work. That's a potential 4 border stops just to get to and from work.
An alternative route without crossing the border is about 10km longer each way. That's an extra 100km a week.
I don't know which is worse? Fingers crossed for no hard border again though.

[Emphyrio]

I think they should put in some sort of failsafe that if an agreement can't be reached, then another referendum. A No Deal Brexit should be the last option and contingencies of some sort should be there to prevent that outcome.

I'm not mad about second refs in general but this thing has been a calamity from start to finish and actually warrants one.

Or the other option, if a deal can't be reached, simply revoke the whole leaving process altogether.

Shitshow.

[Juggz]

The German take on it is interesting, it's worth running this through a translator.

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/brexit/brexit-votum-in-london-die-niederlage-von-westminster-15990953.html?GEPC=s3

The basic gist is that the British couldn't seriously consider the EU would put the interests of a country leaving the union ahead of those who remain and it's a massive failing of British diplomacy to expect that to happen.

That doesn't sound promising for them getting much joy out of any potential renegotiations and, let's not forget, the big problem is the border and Customs Union.

[Pedrito]

In 10  years time the British will be saying that Brexit was the best choice they ever made. It wouldnt work for most countries, but there are huge advantages to being outside the bureaucratic dinosaur that is the EU. I think theyre right to push back on any deal that is overly punitive and they need to push forward and negotiate their way through it all. There is a lot of bravado and rhetoric on both sides, but when push comes to shove, money talks, and both sides will do their utmost to ensure that the bottom line is protected.  Another referendum, after all this time, negotiating etc. would simply be farcical.

[Juggz]

Is the defeated deal overly punitive? Much, indeed almost all, of the objection has been around the border here, the backstop and the Customs Union proposal, that it doesn't give them full sovereignty over their own borders - in the short term at least. I've heard little else which would suggest the deal was punitive.

[Trev]

Wonder if a hard border coming back would make the possibility of a united Ireland more likely? Could be enough to sway moderate unionists? If that were to happen it wouldn't take much for Scotland to push for another independence referendum...

The whole thing has just been a complete clusterfuck from the start