Marilyn 'Brian' Manson had been a very naughty boy

[jobrok1]

I'm hoping this will lead to a price drop on vinyl of his first 4 albums 😂

Silver lining   

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Here is a particularly egregious example of just how thankless the judicial channel can be. True enough, in France, the laws around age and consent are properly ludicrous, but it's more about the difficulty of applying whatever laws are there which is common to most western societies, precisely because of the issue of "proof" of guilt. Remember the recent rugby case in NI, the initial treatment of the "manada" case in Spain...all so many understandably highly mediatized cases that are stark reminders to any victim of sexual assault that the "proper" avenues are most likely to be treadmills of repeating trauma with absolutely no guarantee of justice, not to mention your own reputation likely to be dragged through the mud just as much as your attacker(s). Tis a fucked up world, in which I'm glad to be a man tbh. Unpleasant reading:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/outrage-over-french-girls-case-sparks-demand-for-law-to-protect-minors

[Blackout]

Jesus that is grim.

Maybe a special criminal court for sexual assault could be an avenue lawmakers could take? Guaranteed anonymity to all parties until the final verdict is made along with any appeals. The bottom line is we cannot have a law system whereby an accuser cannot be cross-examined by a qualified solicitor/barrister so a complete media blackout on these cases is warranted. In relation to the rugby case it took the Jury no time at all to reach their verdict despite the huge pressure from a social media mob, even high ranking politicians. The men from the case have had their careers and reputations permanently damaged despite  a not-guilty verdict.  Have you any solution for that?

With regards to the age of consent well I 100 percent agree it needs to be raised considerably in France.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The men from the case have had their careers and reputations permanently damaged despite  a not-guilty verdict.  Have you any solution for that?

A not-guilty verdict for a specific crime, but the damage to their careers and reputations - in that particular case - was them literally being condemned by their own words. I know you're just using it as an example, and for sure there are men out there who have had their reputations tarnished without justification...but everything we know about sexual assault still tells us that, regardless of how many anecdotes to be found via a Google search, statistically they are vanishingly few compared to the number of unreported attacks and, hence, unpunished attackers.

[Blackout]

The men from the case have had their careers and reputations permanently damaged despite  a not-guilty verdict.  Have you any solution for that?

A not-guilty verdict for a specific crime, but the damage to their careers and reputations - in that particular case - was them literally being condemned by their own words. I know you're just using it as an example, and for sure there are men out there who have had their reputations tarnished without justification...but everything we know about sexual assault still tells us that, regardless of how many anecdotes to be found via a Google search, statistically they are vanishingly few compared to the number of unreported attacks and, hence, unpunished attackers.

Anecdotes, really? I assume you have plenty of statistical evidence and factual information to back up your posts then?

[Eoin McLove]

That's some read, holy shit.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Anecdotes, really? I assume you have plenty of statistical evidence and factual information to back up your posts then?

Anecdote as in an individual personal account, an individual case, as opposed to analyses of all available cases, which estimate that only around a quarter of all sexual crimes are reported and that rape is the single most underreported crime across the globe. No shortage of sources for that information via a quick google search.

[Blackout]

Dear God. You can't just decide that some Google searches throw up anecdotal evidence for one persons assertion and factual information for yours.

Nothing above makes me think that the justice system in place needs changing other than total anonymity for all parties involved.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Dear God. You can't just decide that some Google searches throw up anecdotal evidence for one persons assertion and factual information for yours.

A simple Google will tell you there are more than enough women out there happy to destroy a young fellas reputation with a false accusation.

When you said this, were you basing that on individual cases reported on Google or on some analysis and factual information? If you compare stats on unreported rape and stats on false accusations, results from the former absolutely dwarf the latter. That's what I was trying to get across.

[Blackout]

This is getting tiring. Without the constant bluster, do you propose that we should have a justice system that allows for people to be prosecuted for sexual assault without cross examination?  If so what is the alternative?

I dont want yo know about anymore horrific cases, unreported sexual assaults etc etc etc. Just answer the above and we can put the matter to bed.

[Eoin McLove]

However you put it to bed,  please do it consensually, for Gawd's sake!

[astfgyl]

That guardian story is terrible stuff altogether. 20 dirty bastards.

Didn't know there was effectively no age of consent there.

As regards solving the issue of guilt in historical cases, I'd be inclined to think that it will never be solved. Lack of evidence doesn't equate to a lack of a crime, but circumstantial evidence alone doesn't equate to a crime.

At least it can be ruled out that it's for money in the Warner case so it seems to add a bit of credence to the claim, but who knows what other motivations someone might have

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This is getting tiring. Without the constant bluster, do you propose that we should have a justice system that allows for people to be prosecuted for sexual assault without cross examination?  If so what is the alternative?

I dont want yo know about anymore horrific cases, unreported sexual assaults etc etc etc. Just answer the above and we can put the matter to bed.

No, I'm not proposing that. I'm saying that the "false accusations" card doesn't carry nearly the same weight as the "understandable reasons for not having pursued the proper channels" card. As for workable alternatives to the current system, I'm pretty sure more knowledgeable people than either of us have given it plenty of thought.

[Kunt 4 Life]

On The BBC news site it mentioned Brian took pics up a girl's shirt at a festival. It also mentioned that Trent Reznor still denies that they both sexually someone together which was mentioned in Manson's biography.
This is the first I heard of this. What was it that was said in the book? If Reznor denies it couldn't he have also sued?

[son of the Morrigan]

Anecdotes, really? I assume you have plenty of statistical evidence and factual information to back up your posts then?

Anecdote as in an individual personal account, an individual case, as opposed to analyses of all available cases, which estimate that only around a quarter of all sexual crimes are reported and that rape is the single most underreported crime across the globe. No shortage of sources for that information via a quick google search.

fucking brilliant, a group of experts analysed "all available cases" and  their expert analyses of these cases led them to "estimate" that for every one they had analysed, there should be three more. Again, fucking brilliant.
this auld rubbish is being bandied about by interest groups, cranks, crackpots and cunts on a regular basis and it really boils my shite.
What method was employed to come by this estimation?, did they ask Mystic Meg or something?
How does one count crimes that are not reported?
Bullshit.

"Rape is the most unreported crime across the globe."
What a load of utter scutter, not petty theft, not common assault, not vandalism, no, "rape is the most unreported crime across the globe"
Bullshit.

Would you mind pointing me in the general direction of these sources you get your information from so that I can have a right fucking laugh?, you say there is no shortage of them.