Best Thrash band

[leatherface]

Found Acid Reign 'The Fear' in the collection and put it on for 'ole times sakes. Stands up, good riffs. Haven't heard the new one.

Looking back on Metallica, I was one of those kids who hated the black album when it was released. Still don't like it much, but now I can appreciate the need to expand your sound as an artist etc.

[Giggles]

There hasn't been a thrash album worth a pint of cold piss since the very early 90's...

...AJFA, for example, is not a thrash album. They're not thrash songs. RIP, not thrash. Great albums, but not thrash albums.

What is your definition of  "thrash album", or a "thrash song"?

[Juggz]

Thrash is high tempo metal notable for the fast-paced snare and a drum pattern derived from hardcore punk.

Examples...

https://youtu.be/9MsiHRPiXCI?t=107

https://youtu.be/TnRZhLRv6eM?t=30

https://youtu.be/xeK1E1HaMdY?t=52

https://youtu.be/iSHsNbhQkw0?t=15

https://youtu.be/2GNt4UGa4tg?t=7

https://youtu.be/c0VkXJjH-uA?t=18

https://youtu.be/AeififDPVCw?t=3

https://youtu.be/YmWEP6pPzgg?t=30

https://youtu.be/LtaH2yllusU?t=12

https://youtu.be/Hf__tRy0g10?t=74

https://youtu.be/T5SKqEE2U-g?t=4

https://youtu.be/1v6LC6ZsRjo?t=74

https://youtu.be/ASFfYKqJWHA?t=27

Or, at least, that's what it was the first time around. Like I said, by the end of the 80's most of the original thrash bands had moved on to something else (AJFA and RIP being prime examples) but lazy journalists, struggling to categorise the music being played by bands who used to play thrash, continued to call it thrash when, really, it had morphed into something else.

Edit -> keep an eye on this thread because the next couple of years coming up were fucking thrash central out my way 

https://forum.metalwarfare.com/index.php?topic=1308.150

[StrangersWithGuns]

Seems thrash is viewed a lot more rigidly than some other genres like black or death metal, and isn't given as much leeway to expand the core sound

Like I would absolutely call Vektor a thrash band, even if they have elements of other stuff. Death changed pretty much every album but they were always a death metal band

Its definitely not, there was an interview with a guy out of gama bomb saying any retro trash tends to get a lot of hate.

I do get the thing where it feels like the genre was mastered and new trash bands are just trying to recreate the 80s as opposed to do anything current

[Anton Arcane]

A lot of people said Death weren't a proper death metal band though. I remember Symbolic getting some flack for not being "heavy enough". Same thing with Atheist. And Pestilence when they brought out Spheres. And Carcass with Heartwork. Plenty of auld lads still whinge about At The Gates going "Jugga" on Slaughter Of The Soul. There's always purists/ elitists complaining when bands break the genre rules. It's certainly not something that's exclusive to thrash.

The Black Album, grunge and Burn My Eys those three things are what caused thrash to have an identity crisis that it never recovered from.

[Anton Arcane]

Thrash is high tempo metal notable for the fast-paced snare and a drum pattern derived from hardcore punk.

Examples...

https://youtu.be/9MsiHRPiXCI?t=107

https://youtu.be/TnRZhLRv6eM?t=30

https://youtu.be/xeK1E1HaMdY?t=52

https://youtu.be/iSHsNbhQkw0?t=15

https://youtu.be/2GNt4UGa4tg?t=7

https://youtu.be/c0VkXJjH-uA?t=18

https://youtu.be/AeififDPVCw?t=3

https://youtu.be/YmWEP6pPzgg?t=30

https://youtu.be/LtaH2yllusU?t=12

https://youtu.be/Hf__tRy0g10?t=74

https://youtu.be/T5SKqEE2U-g?t=4

https://youtu.be/1v6LC6ZsRjo?t=74

https://youtu.be/ASFfYKqJWHA?t=27

Or, at least, that's what it was the first time around. Like I said, by the end of the 80's most of the original thrash bands had moved on to something else (AJFA and RIP being prime examples) but lazy journalists, struggling to categorise the music being played by bands who used to play thrash, continued to call it thrash when, really, it had morphed into something else.

Edit -> keep an eye on this thread because the next couple of years coming up were fucking thrash central out my way 

https://forum.metalwarfare.com/index.php?topic=1308.150

That's a very narrow box to put in though. By that standard about 80% of what's called thrash isn't thrash, including other songs on those albums.

Is Peace Sells thrash? Or The New Order? Or South of Heaven?

[Juggz]

Peace Sells, of course not, just listen to it  Megadeth always called themselves Speed Metal (anyone remember Speed Metal?  ), they didn't consider themselves a Thrash band because they didn't play Thrash. I actually listened to their first four albums over the weekend with this very thing at the back of my mind. Maybe Rattlehead is close but... just listen to their music and tell me what does it have in common with, let's say, the music on Reign in Blood for example. I think Gar was a lot of the reason they sounded so different, an immensely skilled and accomplished player but they also had a lot more mid-tempo material than those they have been lumped in with. A more Metal-grounded drummer might have thrashed it up but Gar was from different stock and pure fucking class. They were quite clear about it, though, they used to have a line they put on t-shirts and posters, "The world's state of the art speed metal band". I used to have an A0 poster of theirs on my bedroom wall as a kid which even had that line. Of course, in hindsight it's easier to lump the successful bands together but just listen to the music and it's fucking obvious. Thrash is a style of music, it's not all the music played by a nominated cluster of bands. The word itself describes the frenzied nature of the music, that's where it came from. Say it loud and proud... Thrash!

I understand that it doesn't fit the narrative you have grown up with and you're upset but, trust me, I've told you what Thrash Metal actually is. Listen to the links... that is Thrash. When the term was coined in the early-mid 80's, that's what it meant. If someone was called Thrash, you knew what you were going to get, fucking wild aggression and high tempos. Yes, it was a narrow categorisation and that's why it fucking died a rapid death. It doesn't mean bands who were called Thrash played Thrash every second of every song of every album (maybe some of the shit ones  ) but it meant the Thrash sound would feature heavily in their work. By the end of the 80's, most of them had slowed down and distanced themselves from Thrash, both musically and verbally in the press. Those albums are now lumped together as Thrash by lazy journalists, but they're not Thrash. Thrash is a style of music, it is not all the outputs of a loose collection of bands, after all.

It was a spent force long before the black album, long before grunge and you're really, massively, hugely overstating the importance of Burn My Eyes   

It's interesting you bring up South of Heaven, it's a great example of a band evolving and moving on with class. Silent Scream, Ghosts of War and Cleanse the Soul are the only ones you could call Thrash, the ones which, you'd argue, could fit seamlessly onto RIB or Hell Awaits, for example. Thrash is high tempo, most of SOH is not. Again, it's a word which describes a style of music and, when you have two songs which are very different from each other, if one is then the other cannot be, if the term is to have any meaning at all, no?

Finally, have a listen and read the lyrics to Thrash Under Pressure by Exodus, the last track on 1990's Impact is Imminent album. They sum up the situation of the time quite nicely, the dying spasms of real Thrash in as meat-and-potatoes a Thrash song as it's possible to do 

At the end of it all, it's up to you to decide what you think Thrash is. Thrash either describes a style of music (that's where the term came from) or it's a retrospectively-applied term for all musically disparate bands from the mid-80's who were heavier than Judas Priest before Death Metal came along, with thanks to the tight-trousered, heavily-tattooed, baseball cap wearing kids at Metal Hammer 

[Bogmetaller]

Ya to me personally bands like megadeth, annihilator, nuclear assault and overkill were speed metal because the drums weren't 180 bpm(not that I've heard much of the latter two so I'm open to correction) . Proper thrash to me is slayer, sepultura and in particular bands like Sadus. Not saying I'm right but that's the way I looked at it.

[astfgyl]

The main takeaway for me here is that I know fuck all about Thrash. So many bands mentioned here that I don't know a note of.

Edit: going through a few of the examples Juggz has up there and wondering how important is the vocal style in defining what is Thrash or not?

[Anton Arcane]

Peace Sells, of course not, just listen to it  Megadeth always called themselves Speed Metal (anyone remember Speed Metal?  ), they didn't consider themselves a Thrash band because they didn't play Thrash. I actually listened to their first four albums over the weekend with this very thing at the back of my mind. Maybe Rattlehead is close but... just listen to their music and tell me what does it have in common with, let's say, the music on Reign in Blood for example. I think Gar was a lot of the reason they sounded so different, an immensely skilled and accomplished player but they also had a lot more mid-tempo material than those they have been lumped in with. A more Metal-grounded drummer might have thrashed it up but Gar was from different stock and pure fucking class. They were quite clear about it, though, they used to have a line they put on t-shirts and posters, "The world's state of the art speed metal band". I used to have an A0 poster of theirs on my bedroom wall as a kid which even had that line. Of course, in hindsight it's easier to lump the successful bands together but just listen to the music and it's fucking obvious. Thrash is a style of music, it's not all the music played by a nominated cluster of bands. The word itself describes the frenzied nature of the music, that's where it came from. Say it loud and proud... Thrash!

I understand that it doesn't fit the narrative you have grown up with and you're upset but, trust me, I've told you what Thrash Metal actually is. Listen to the links... that is Thrash. When the term was coined in the early-mid 80's, that's what it meant. If someone was called Thrash, you knew what you were going to get, fucking wild aggression and high tempos. Yes, it was a narrow categorisation and that's why it fucking died a rapid death. It doesn't mean bands who were called Thrash played Thrash every second of every song of every album (maybe some of the shit ones  ) but it meant the Thrash sound would feature heavily in their work. By the end of the 80's, most of them had slowed down and distanced themselves from Thrash, both musically and verbally in the press. Those albums are now lumped together as Thrash by lazy journalists, but they're not Thrash. Thrash is a style of music, it is not all the outputs of a loose collection of bands, after all.

It was a spent force long before the black album, long before grunge and you're really, massively, hugely overstating the importance of Burn My Eyes   


At the end of it all, it's up to you to decide what you think Thrash is. Thrash either describes a style of music (that's where the term came from) or it's a retrospectively-applied term for all musically disparate bands from the mid-80's who were heavier than Judas Priest before Death Metal came along, with thanks to the tight-trousered, heavily-tattooed, baseball cap wearing kids at Metal Hammer

You yourself referred to Megadeth as being an "original thrash band" and gave the example of them as being a band that moved on from thrash with RIP. That's why I asked specifically about Peace Sells. So now even they don't make the cut. That's what I mean about your definition being very rigid and specific.
I know about Mustaine referring to them as a speed metal band. When I was discovering metal in the early 90s, thrash and speed were interchangeable terms. Speed metal means something else now though: Mostly European lads playing Iron Maiden riffs at warp speed with falsetto vocals.

My point about Burn My Eyes is that because it was hugely successful while updating the thrash formula, bands like Forbidden, Testament, Slayer, Sacred Reich etc. suddenly started down tuning and getting groovy, seemingly just to stay relevant.

Look a lot of this arguably comes down to semantics, what you're calling thrash, I would argue leans more into crossover territory. There's just so much golden era "thrash" stuff  that doesn't fit into that bracket though.

I take your points about lazy journalism and retrospectively applying the term to anything with teeth in the 80s, Metal Church and Motorhead being two examples but I think you're just being a bit too heavy handed with the yardstick.

[Blackout]

There is an element of the old school thrash production that hasn't been replicated by any modern thrash outputs. This is a huge factor. For example reaper by Bathory is definitely a thrash song. The production would be considered rubbish nowadays whereas to us old school thrash fans it adds an element of charm.

I always thought that the thrash movement was borne out of the tediousness of hair metal in a similar fashion to the punk movement in the 70s.

[Carnage]

Isn't 'speed metal' just what the yanks called thrash? That's how I always took it anyway. Stupid, stupid, meaningless phrase regardless, along with 'hair metal' (which isn't a thing).

Thrash is as broad a genre term as death metal has become over the years, with plenty of variation under the umbrella. Writing off so many indisputable thrash classics because they don't fit one's personal definition is a bit silly and dismissive.

[Juggz]

You yourself referred to Megadeth as being an "original thrash band" and gave the example of them as being a band that moved on from thrash with RIP. That's why I asked specifically about Peace Sells. So now even they don't make the cut. That's what I mean about your definition being very rigid and specific.
I know about Mustaine referring to them as a speed metal band. When I was discovering metal in the early 90s, thrash and speed were interchangeable terms. Speed metal means something else now though: Mostly European lads playing Iron Maiden riffs at warp speed with falsetto vocals.

My point about Burn My Eyes is that because it was hugely successful while updating the thrash formula, bands like Forbidden, Testament, Slayer, Sacred Reich etc. suddenly started down tuning and getting groovy, seemingly just to stay relevant.

Look a lot of this arguably comes down to semantics, what you're calling thrash, I would argue leans more into crossover territory. There's just so much golden era "thrash" stuff  that doesn't fit into that bracket though.

I take your points about lazy journalism and retrospectively applying the term to anything with teeth in the 80s, Metal Church and Motorhead being two examples but I think you're just being a bit too heavy handed with the yardstick.

I'm just telling you what it was at the time when the term was coined and why it was coined. Thrash is a definite style of Metal and, when asked for a definition, I was able to give one which explains why those bands were put together at the time, highlighting the sonic characteristic which linked them before it became a marketing tag. I referred to RIP because people keep talking about it being a thrash classic, it was mentioned several times in this thread as such. Where is the thrash in it? Poison was the Cure? Polaris? It's so much more than thrash. Calling it a thrash album does it a massive disservice. So much stuff which wasn't thrash but was lazily called thrash over the years has diluted the term to have fuck all meaning, but I put Giggles' question to you - What is your definition of  "thrash album", or a "thrash song"?

Burn My Eyes came out in 94? Thrash was long gone by then. AJFA, 1988. Persistence of Time, Obnoxious, 1990. Mental Vortex, Dilute to Taste, 1991, Kin, Renewal, The Ritual, Force of Habit, Art of Rebellion, 1992. Chaos AD, Independent, Sound of White Noise, 1993. So many bands had moved on and experiemented with slower, heavier, more groove orientated Metal long, long before Burn My Eyes was ever released. There was nothing sudden about it. Several years of Death Metal and the likes of Cowboys from Hell and Vulgar Display would arguably have had an influence in that but Burn My Eyes just isn't a factor in any of those bands other than when Vio-Lence split up in 92/93.

Speed metal means something else now though: Mostly European lads playing Iron Maiden riffs at warp speed with falsetto vocals.

Is that not power metal? That also used to be something else 30 years ago 

[Kurt Cocaine]

Thrash..... 


a short, fast, loud piece or passage of rock music.
"after all those twelve-bar thrashes, my fingers were blistered"

a style of fast, loud, harsh-sounding rock music, combining elements of punk and heavy metal.
noun: thrash metal
"a grungy thrash band"

[Blackout]

Isn't 'speed metal' just what the yanks called thrash? That's how I always took it anyway. Stupid, stupid, meaningless phrase regardless, along with 'hair metal' (which isn't a thing).

Thrash is as broad a genre term as death metal has become over the years, with plenty of variation under the umbrella. Writing off so many indisputable thrash classics because they don't fit one's personal definition is a bit silly and dismissive.

Hair metal is a thing mate. They had the corresponding look to go with the name.