Tropes, Clichés, metal group think

[Eoin McLove]

How can you separate the likes of DMDS from the imagery and chaos that surrounds that album? And why would you want to! I'm all in on all aspects of it.

In other words, black metal with a bland everyman image is antithetical to its whole philosophy in my book. Calling it infantile shows the wrong kind of mindset. It's interesting and telling that you had this conversation in college,  a time when people are caught between that teenage mindset and being an adult who wants to be taken seriously and seen as a grown up. Black metal then maybe seems a bit childish and presents the wrong message to your peers.  I never have given a fuck about if others think I'm stupid for not giving up on metal.  I have only ever embraced it the more and you know what,  nobody actually cares.  In fact,  I find the opposite.  People try to engage me on it because they 'used to be into it too'. Why apologise for the deadliness of corpsepaint? I never have and never will. It's all part and parcel.

[Caomhaoin]

You might have a point, but I've never been much into artwork, analysing lyrics etc. There's an element of laziness in that of course, but I'm happy enough with the choons as a stand alone element.

There are some exceptions, like Mael Mórdha, Drudkh etc but that's because I'm a history and geography nerd, and that kind of stuff appeals to my personal interests and happen to coincide with music I enjoy.

[Pentagrimes]

I'm absolutely and avowedly not a fan of the studs an spikes/biker gang element of underground metal but I think I'm increasingly aware of the need for some sort of aesthetic in Death Metal, though it doesn't necessarily have to be the same old same old. And if I see one more fucking shitty US "death metal" band pop up this week looking and sounding like a moshcore band (which 90% of them probably were a year ago) who've traded the crowd shots for gore lyrics, I'll vomit. Grow your hair, stop washing, give up the slam riffs.

[Blackout]

I am a huge black metal fan too but again the imagery is secondary to the music.

[Pedrito]

Yep, I get what McLove is saying above. There's a whole worldview that goes part in parcel with the BM thing and the majority of people will.never 'get' it. Now, the seriousness of it all is open to absolute ridicule from afar, but how can you ridicule people who don't give a fuck that you're ridiculing them in the first place? There's a massive whiff of the zealot off of them(amongst the pig's blood and sweat) and they couldn't care less..well at least that's what we are led to believe.

And yes, the bland image makes no sense in a genre that is meant to be anything but bland. Taht's what I was getting at with 'caricature', but it's a poor word to use in fairness.

[Pentagrimes]

I am a huge black metal fan too but again the imagery is secondary to the music.

I'm not at all a huge BM fan but  I really, thoroughly believe the lyrics and imagery are about 75% of what constitutes that music.

Could be the era I grew up in, but Black Metal is by definition music about the occult/satanism, it's fairly rigid in terms of that in a way that no other metal subgenre is. If you ain't playing by those terms, you can sound like Mayhem or whatever all you want, it's not Black Metal.

[Caomhaoin]

Are Wolves in the Throne (trend?) Room a black metal band? Or xasthur, AOP, Secrets of the Moon etc? I'd imagine they'd all self identify as such, but none of them have much of the imagery you'd expect (or demand?).

It's an interesting discussion, is there another sub genre of metal which you'd write off as not what they claim to be based on non musical elements? Can four short haired lads in river island gear be a death metal band? I know that's a facetious example, but I think the question is valid.

[Ducky]

At the same time would you include a band that doesn't really sound black metal in the genre because of their aesthetics?

[Pentagrimes]

I couldn't give that much of a bollocks as it's a genre I'm not mad about personally but as I said - generational thing. I grew up in an era where there was much talk of what did and didn't constitute "black metal" in zines at the time so that's informed my idea of it probably more than someone who came up in the 00s or past decade. But I'd think there's a wider musical palate if you have the occult feel and aesthetic in place yeah. there has to be a kind of air of mystery behind it I'd say.  That's just me. It's an "I know it when I see it" thing. Wolves in the Throne Room are one of the few bands who definitely have it without singing about hailing the goat or whatever, dunno why they're seen as trendy. (though if "trendy" is going to get me a wad of cash on ebay for the demo, count me in!)

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Whether the "elites" like it or not, all the big wigs of true cult grim BM are absolutely caricatures. They may prefer terms like "archetype", or whatever, but anyone endeavouring to embody an archetype is a caricature. That's not a judgment, or even a criticism, it's simply an observation on one aspect of the human condition, where the BM schtick is, in my opinion, a truly impressive manifestation of another. Some of the actors in that frost-bitten "play within the play" would admit this, some of the most truly nihilistic even (and beside the satanism/occultism/paganism, a space has to be left in BM for nihilism).

[The Butcher]

And if I see one more fucking shitty US "death metal" band pop up this week looking and sounding like a moshcore band (which 90% of them probably were a year ago) who've traded the crowd shots for gore lyrics, I'll vomit. Grow your hair, stop washing, give up the slam riffs.

Haha so true...and if every metal publication could stop using the word brutal to describe them...that would be refreshing.

Came across this article by one of the lads in Gama Bomb ->
https://www.loudersound.com/features/metal-is-being-killed-by-cliches-i-know-because-i-am-one

Slight extension on the topic but an quite a view to take (Could black metal just shut up about winter?)..I don't buy his idea of cliches killing off the creation of "superstars" - why is this important, who cares? Or that it's killing off creation of genre bending/expanding music...the example of Vektor/Bölzer kill off a big chunk of his argument and with the sheer amount of saturation in terms of music creation, it's only a matter of time until we see the next set of creative mold-breakers. Sounds like he's more concerned about coverage on a mainstream scale.

[Caomhaoin]

That band 'Siorai Geimhreidh' from Wexford captures that type of nihilism very well when they were knocking about. Unreadable logo, unintelligible lyrics ya, but apart from that, 'we exist.' seemed to be their shtick.

I don't think WITTR are trendy, but it was one of those daft pun threads on the old board, someone put up 'Wolves in the Trend Room'. They made an appearance on the food one too, 'Waffles in the Throne Room' which was excellent

[open face surgery]

WIITR are aboslutely trendy girlfriend black metal. Don't mind the first two releases.

Reinkaos is shite cause it's jugga Gothenburg melodic death metal rather than the 2 black metal classics that came before it.

Fuck nearly all of the new crop of American death metal bands. Interchangeable shit.

As per usual, I agree with Andy's view point on the all encompassing art of black metal.

[Caomhaoin]

WIITR are aboslutely trendy girlfriend black metal. Don't mind the first two releases.

Reinkaos is shite cause it's jugga Gothenburg melodic death metal rather than the 2 black metal classics that came before it.

Fuck nearly all of the new crop of American death metal bands. Interchangeable shit.

As per usual, I agree with Andy's view point on the all emcompassing art of black metal.

Girlfriend black metal? 🤣 WTF.

How does 'being jugga Gothenburg metal make it shite though? It's a similar argument people make about the black album. Not as good, and different, it's not shite though, is it?

[blessed1]

WIITR are aboslutely trendy girlfriend black metal. Don't mind the first two releases.

Reinkaos is shite cause it's jugga Gothenburg melodic death metal rather than the 2 black metal classics that came before it.

Fuck nearly all of the new crop of American death metal bands. Interchangeable shit.

As per usual, I agree with Andy's view point on the all emcompassing art of black metal.

Girlfriend black metal? 🤣 WTF.

How does 'being jugga Gothenburg metal make it shite though? It's a similar argument people make about the black album. Not as good, and different, it's not shite though, is it?

Ya that post reads like a 15 Yr just getting into black metal.
They changed their sound so it must be shit 🙄