Theories of the conspiratorial kind

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I thought everyone knew that the pointy UFOs were the bad ones.... 

black shepherd will be able to chime in with details about how our minds create ethics out of shape, so if you did a survey you'd get 75% of respondents saying 'pointy' aliens are more likely to be malign or dangerous than 'squishy' aliens, even though on a surface level it looks like a nonsense question.

Via the bouba/kiki effect? Without taking away from his therapeutic work with phantom limb ( ) patients, I find it very difficult to get on board with Ramachandran's logical leaps, whether that be about visual-audio-moral synaesthesia or mirror neurons. Despite his relatively squishy appearance, I see him as a "bad" scientist, because he is too dogmatically fixated on selling the truth value of his theories...which is, fittingly, also pretty much my problem with the majority of "conspiracy theory".

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. And though there be a greater number and weight of instances to be found on the other side, yet these it either neglects and despises, or else by some distinction sets aside and rejects; in order that by this great and pernicious predetermination the authority of its former conclusions may remain inviolate. [...] And such is the way of all superstitions, whether in astrology, dreams, omens, divine judgments, or the like; wherein men, having a delight in such vanities, mark the events where they are fulfilled, but where they fail, although this happened much oftener, neglect and pass them by.

[astfgyl]

The planes are spraying something. I haven't a clue why but I'm pretty sure it isn't to poison us all. Something else along the lines of geoengineering or weather control most likely but no proof other than looking at it that it is indeed happening at all.

Anyone care to discuss/refute?

This on in particular hurts my head. Contrails... Condensation trails. It's junior cert physics. You can see the same thing being caused by the tails of F1 cars (because they're effectively upside down wings that are used to generate downforce instead of lift).

Weather control does happen. Planes go up in arid regions (or areas that may have crops damages due to lack of rainfall) and release a compound called silver iodide that acts as condensation nuclei to catalyse cloud formation. This isn't a conspiracy, it's happening since the 1940s or so.

I know about contrails. And I know about cloud seeding. And yes it was explained to me back in school, but this is not the same thing, this is known as persistent contrails, which according to NASA is a relatively new occurrence. So even if you don't think it is anything it is still caused by something outside the normal run of things. My guess is that you haven't spent much time looking up at it to notice anything off about it. I have spent a lot of time watching it myself and I am convinced it is not normal. Regular contrails do not spread out like that, they disappear behind the plane. What hurts my head is folks who will believe what they read but not what they can see with their own two eyes.

[Juggz]

...persistent contrails, which according to NASA is a relatively new occurrence...

NASA source, please.

[astfgyl]

The planes are spraying something.

Yes, it's called exhaust fumes and happens as a result of combustion engines. Temperatures at the altitudes the planes operate at are low enough for this to condense.

As a kid, I used to lay on my back looking up at the sky watching the planes go by. The contrails back then (late 80s, early 90s) used to do the normal thing and disappear behind the lanes, not spread out over the whole sky as they do now. Do your own bit of research, go find some of your or your parents old photos where there is sky in them, and see if even one of them has the persistent type of trail which is common these days. It has changed significantly in the last 20 years or so. This may be due to changes in atmospheric pressure or temperatures, or it might be some changes to the type of fuel used which could in turn affect how the vapour condenses. Maybe? I found it equally amazing during lock down, where air traffic was operating at about one tenth of its' usual amount, that the amount of trails in the sky remained unchanged. But as I said to the other fella, don't mind what you can see with your own two eyes, just google the answer to try refute what you think I'm saying...

[astfgyl]

...persistent contrails, which according to NASA is a relatively new occurrence...

NASA source, please.

There is a bit here, but it isn't the one I was talking about. The one I was reading was asking people to report incidences of it to NASA to help with their research into this relatively new phenomenon. I will dig it out but it will take a few minutes https://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/contrail-edu/science.html

[Juggz]

As a kid, I used to lay on my back looking up at the sky watching the planes go by. The contrails back then (late 80s, early 90s) used to do the normal thing and disappear behind the lanes, not spread out over the whole sky as they do now. Do your own bit of research, go find some of your or your parents old photos where there is sky in them, and see if even one of them has the persistent type of trail which is common these days. It has changed significantly in the last 20 years or so. This may be due to changes in atmospheric pressure or temperatures, or it might be some changes to the type of fuel used which could in turn affect how the vapour condenses. Maybe? I found it equally amazing during lock down, where air traffic was operating at about one tenth of its' usual amount, that the amount of trails in the sky remained unchanged. But as I said to the other fella, don't mind what you can see with your own two eyes, just google the answer to try refute what you think I'm saying...

Here are some B-17s over Germany in the 1940s.

[astfgyl]

On the subject of these theories in general, I reckon that almost all are shite. Even ones I think I like the sound of can usually be explained away fairly handy. I find the WTC ones the most fascinating, specifically the magical falling building. And as mentioned, because of things like Operation Northwoods, a lot of stuff around that seems believable, given what happened after.

Like for me there is a massive leap from looking at that incident and smelling a rat of sorts, and then somehow tying that into alien abductions, area 51, nazis in the antarctic, flat earth, man didn't land on the moon etc. Attaching the term conspiracy theory to all of the theories immediately prevents 99 percent of people from giving any credence to what is being said, i.e. "I think the US government has done some false flag shit over the years" can be immediately written off with "ah that's only a conspiracy theory like all the fuckin ancient aliens shit". There you go, mind closed. And also there are those who go the other way, that they think just because governments have lied and covered up some things, that must mean that everything proposed, such as the flat earth, is true and it gets all David Icke with the lizard people and whatnot.

It is a subject which usually lacks balance in the discussion, but I've always loved unsolved mysteries and the like and I think that is why these theories fascinate me, that there may be a grain of truth in them somewhere along the line, if one sifts through enough of the shite

[Yung Led Zeppelin]

The planes are spraying something.

Yes, it's called exhaust fumes and happens as a result of combustion engines. Temperatures at the altitudes the planes operate at are low enough for this to condense.

As a kid, I used to lay on my back looking up at the sky watching the planes go by. The contrails back then (late 80s, early 90s) used to do the normal thing and disappear behind the lanes, not spread out over the whole sky as they do now. Do your own bit of research, go find some of your or your parents old photos where there is sky in them, and see if even one of them has the persistent type of trail which is common these days. It has changed significantly in the last 20 years or so. This may be due to changes in atmospheric pressure or temperatures, or it might be some changes to the type of fuel used which could in turn affect how the vapour condenses. Maybe? I found it equally amazing during lock down, where air traffic was operating at about one tenth of its' usual amount, that the amount of trails in the sky remained unchanged. But as I said to the other fella, don't mind what you can see with your own two eyes, just google the answer to try refute what you think I'm saying...

The planes are spraying something. I haven't a clue why but I'm pretty sure it isn't to poison us all. Something else along the lines of geoengineering or weather control most likely but no proof other than looking at it that it is indeed happening at all.

?

[astfgyl]

Here are some B-17s over Germany in the 1940s.

I've seen that picture before, and also have seen other ones taken over France during WWII. I would say that was a rather different situation with the concentration of so many of those planes over a relatively small area, and is not analogous to what we see every day in the normal run of things.

Also, you picked on my saying to a fella to look with his own eyes, at his own or his parents' pictures of normal times and with the sky in the background, and then post up a picture specifically of a squadron of planes from 1940 during a World War.. I wonder have you any old pics of your own at home with trails like that in them? I doubt it, unless you were at an air show.

And who knows, maybe the proliferation of these persistent trails in the last 2 decades or so is an indication of something else changed with the atmosphere itself in that time frame and the planes themselves are doing as they always did, but it still isn't normal or else it would have been happening all along and it wouldn't be so noticeable now.

[Carnage]

Can we just call this thread 'The Tin Foil Hat Brigade' and be done with it?

[astfgyl]

?

Indeed. Reading back on it there, I should have worded it differently in my OP. What I should have said is that I think it looks like, rather than saying I'm convinced that something is being sprayed, because I'm always open to learning more.

Here is a brief mention of geoengineering using particles sprayed into the upper atmosphere, which is what I think it looks like: https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/climate-engineering-is-a-risky-gamble-to-fix-planets-problems-461047.html. There are also other types of geoengineering proposed as well, and there is a lot of (non conspiracy theory) information out there on it. Try reading a little of it before writing off the idea entirely, if you have a spare few minutes sometime.

Do honestly look at some old pictures as well though (not ones of WWII, some of your own or old family ones) and see if these types of persistent trails are to be seen in any of them? Old movies are another source you could look at I suppose as well, or TV shows pre 2000 or so and the trails aren't there. So what has changed? Have we reached some sort of saturation point in the upper atmosphere then, if one wishes to exclude the possibility of geoengineering?

More stuff on it here https://www.pnas.org/content/116/4/1089 and here https://e360.yale.edu/features/geoengineer-the-planet-more-scientists-now-say-it-must-be-an-option. there is loads of it out there anyway. This is the sort of thing I think it looks has been going on with the planes for the last 20 years or so

[Juggz]

Here are some B-17s over Germany in the 1940s.

I've seen that picture before, and also have seen other ones taken over France during WWII. I would say that was a rather different situation with the concentration of so many of those planes over a relatively small area, and is not analogous to what we see every day in the normal run of things.

Also, you picked on my saying to a fella to look with his own eyes, at his own or his parents' pictures of normal times and with the sky in the background, and then post up a picture specifically of a squadron of planes from 1940 during a World War.. I wonder have you any old pics of your own at home with trails like that in them? I doubt it, unless you were at an air show.

And who knows, maybe the proliferation of these persistent trails in the last 2 decades or so is an indication of something else changed with the atmosphere itself in that time frame and the planes themselves are doing as they always did, but it still isn't normal or else it would have been happening all along and it wouldn't be so noticeable now.

I picked a famous, old photo because it's famous and old and shows what you're talking about is not a new phenomenon, no matter how one tries to wriggle out of it. You don't need to rely on photos, there are enough films of it happening which show it too, so, you could say it pre-dates chemtrailmania by several decades. Unless, of course, they were also spraying the Germans with chillout juice? 

[astfgyl]

Can we just call this thread 'The Tin Foil Hat Brigade' and be done with it?
[
/quote]

On the subject of these theories in general, I reckon that almost all are shite. Even ones I think I like the sound of can usually be explained away fairly handy. I find the WTC ones the most fascinating, specifically the magical falling building. And as mentioned, because of things like Operation Northwoods, a lot of stuff around that seems believable, given what happened after.

Like for me there is a massive leap from looking at that incident and smelling a rat of sorts, and then somehow tying that into alien abductions, area 51, nazis in the antarctic, flat earth, man didn't land on the moon etc. Attaching the term conspiracy theory to all of the theories immediately prevents 99 percent of people from giving any credence to what is being said, i.e. "I think the US government has done some false flag shit over the years" can be immediately written off with "ah that's only a conspiracy theory like all the fuckin ancient aliens shit". There you go, mind closed. And also there are those who go the other way, that they think just because governments have lied and covered up some things, that must mean that everything proposed, such as the flat earth, is true and it gets all David Icke with the lizard people and whatnot.

It is a subject which usually lacks balance in the discussion, but I've always loved unsolved mysteries and the like and I think that is why these theories fascinate me, that there may be a grain of truth in them somewhere along the line, if one sifts through enough of the shite

It's a pity that the tin foil hat thing is always used to refute anything that might fall outside of the official narrative, when some of it clearly has something to it. I explained it better in the quoted text

[astfgyl]

Here are some B-17s over Germany in the 1940s.

I've seen that picture before, and also have seen other ones taken over France during WWII. I would say that was a rather different situation with the concentration of so many of those planes over a relatively small area, and is not analogous to what we see every day in the normal run of things.

Also, you picked on my saying to a fella to look with his own eyes, at his own or his parents' pictures of normal times and with the sky in the background, and then post up a picture specifically of a squadron of planes from 1940 during a World War.. I wonder have you any old pics of your own at home with trails like that in them? I doubt it, unless you were at an air show.

And who knows, maybe the proliferation of these persistent trails in the last 2 decades or so is an indication of something else changed with the atmosphere itself in that time frame and the planes themselves are doing as they always did, but it still isn't normal or else it would have been happening all along and it wouldn't be so noticeable now.

I picked a famous, old photo because it's famous and old and shows what you're talking about is not a new phenomenon, no matter how one tries to wriggle out of it. You don't need to rely on photos, there are enough films of it happening which show it too, so, you could say it pre-dates chemtrailmania by several decades. Unless, of course, they were also spraying the Germans with chillout juice? 

I don't think it's the sort of chillout juice thing you mention, although I have heard of that line of thinking, too. Again, that photo is hardly representative of a normal day in 2020. I think the geoengineering thing is much more likely, or as I mentioned above, maybe the upper atmosphere has reached a sort of saturation point and it affects how these things dissipate, which would not be disproven by that photo. In fact the circumstances of that picture would support the idea

[Juggz]

I think the geoengineering thing is much more likely

I think the pressurised, hot exhaust gas spewed into very cold air thing is even more likely than that