The Donald vs Big Tech

[pete]

Yeah I don't fully understand it. She got 58 years for weapons and explosives possession which she maintains were for no specific use and was never charged with any of the bombings?

[Bigmac]

The Snopes article about it has an entertaining conclusion:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/

In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter of subjective determination as to whether the actions for which Rosenberg was convicted and imprisoned — possession of weapons and hundreds of pounds of explosives — should be described as acts of "domestic terrorism."

When the connection was pointed out, it seems Thousand Currents removed the Board of Directors section on their website, but it's archived here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200616222408/https:/thousandcurrents.org/board-of-directors/

[astfgyl]

The Snopes article about it has an entertaining conclusion:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-terrorist-rosenberg/

In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter of subjective determination as to whether the actions for which Rosenberg was convicted and imprisoned — possession of weapons and hundreds of pounds of explosives — should be described as acts of "domestic terrorism."

When the connection was pointed out, it seems Thousand Currents removed the Board of Directors section on their website, but it's archived here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200616222408/https:/thousandcurrents.org/board-of-directors/

Ah the good old fact checkers, they always take the impartial view!

[Bigmac]

Nice to see they can put the work in, in between paying for hookers on company expenses.

[astfgyl]

Rating: Mixture

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Well, she was clearly a terrorist, but she wasn't charged with or convicted of the bombing itself. At least they called ahead to warn so that the building was empty and no one died, reminded me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwkEEqXT3uQ

[Pedrito]

Jesus that Snopes definition is a disgrace.

The Philip Roth novel American Pastoral seems to be based loosely around that event. A brilliant read and interesting that it, like the majority, if not all of his work, talks about the 'Jewish experience' in America. Rosenberg, daughter of a dentist and Theatre producer seems to have grown up with great privilege and then she turns out like that. American Pastoral is fiction but explores a similar character/topoc; the impact on the family, but also what might have been going on between the generations etc to spark such a reaction. I don't want to give the book away but really worth picking up.

[Pedrito]

Well, she was clearly a terrorist, but she wasn't charged with or convicted of the bombing itself. At least they called ahead to warn so that the building was empty and no one died, reminded me of this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwkEEqXT3uQ

Great point he makes at the end. The IRA could articulate what they wanted or at the very least it's something you could sit around the table.and work towards/find common ground on. A united Ireland. Simple.

Al Qaeda want the destruction of Western, Christian civilization. BLM/Antifa want the dstruction of the patriarchy, white privilege, the policeforce etc etc etc etc etc. Proud Boys/Pro Trump 'rallyists'..jesus I'm not even sure what they want but it's probably the opposite of BLM etc. Neither side seems coherent. Hard to sit down and have a conversation when you're not even sure what the hell is being discussed in the first place.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The heads of Baader-Meinhof were fairly upper middle class too, and many other examples, but I don't really see what you mean by "then she turns out like that" though. It's not like the US government weren't up to shit in the 70s and 80s (not implying it's only a problem of the past either) that didn't merit violent protest...and all of it essentially true as well! A lot of these groups sprung up around protest at the Vietnam War, for example.

[Pedrito]

Bunch of rich kids gone wrong. You could probably throw the black metal lads into that mix too. Daddy didn't hug me 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You could throw any number of various groups into that mix! Sure the only reason we're not all living in colonial monarchies is because of individual driving forces who were, all things considered, generally speaking doing grand but were indignant at how others were faring under the current regime...or in some cases, French Revolution for example, it was rich people who were pissed off at the glass ceiling being imposed upon them. In any case, if it weren't for "rich kids gone wrong", we might still be dealing with "rich kids gone wrong from in-breeding" 

[Pedrito]

Interesting point you bring up i.e. the 'privelege' one must often possess to take part in this type of activity in the first place. It reminds me of the University here in Madrid one day. I was in the main office while a feminist 'protest' took place. Lots of little middle class girls who lived at home with their parents ranting about the system and spreading fake blood and tampons all over the main entrance to the hall. Of course when things died down later and I was walking out of the building, it was the two little 60+ cleaning ladies who were left to clean it all up. Some people have it so good they don't even realise how ridiculous their outrage is/seems.

[Pedrito]

I'm actually not arguing here, more making an observation. If you look back at the Irish struggle for independence, there were plenty of players in there from the landed and upper classes involved. So, what is a legitimate cause that you can get behind is the question here? Why are the actions that are carried out in the name of BLM or Antifa different to what went on in Capitol Hill?

There was nothing 'physically' different to what they were doing. They carried sticks, smashed shit up, shouted, created havoc. The only differences are symbolic and related to how we interpret the actions.

That brings us to the crux of the matter: Who decides interpretation, or where you get your interpreted facts? We are truly living in the information age now. The only problem is we almost have so much information we have no idea what to do with it. It is probably a very good reason why things have become so polarised. How much easier is it to choose a side and throw in with them and fuck the other lot. It's almost cowardly in its simplicity. An easy black and white view of the world where you don't have to explore nuance or try to be in any way objective or open to dialogue. I think in more level headed times we could have almost ignored both these 'groups' and got on with life, but shouting and thowing tantrums gets a whole lot of attention paid to it nowadays, and the rest of us have to sit idly by and suck it up. A big load of me mickey the lot of it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

To answer your general question: motive. And motive goes beyond symbolic, even though symbolic plays its part too. I still don't really know, for those who say the motive wasn't merely Trump's election stealing lie, what the motive is supposed to have been.

[astfgyl]

I think it goes a bit deeper than that to be fair. That was surely the final straw but they would have been well primed before it came to that. Could be a lot to do with the current situation with covid and the threat to the way of life that they know and love but even that is too simple an explanation. I think that the same applies to the blm riots. For one reason or another, people are angry and waiting for a target to take it out on and will take to the latest cause to feel less powerless.

On each side the feeling seems to be that they are fighting for the cause of good and a better future. Of course the actions of all sides are having the opposite effect and galvanising the other.

And a lot of it is curated by social media, radicalising people in every direction.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1349620039423414272