The Donald vs Big Tech

[Pedrito]

https://mobile.twitter.com/fightnet/status/1267458798228291585?s=20

No messing with Jonny Bones. The lads don't even attempt to give him any backchat 

jesus the thumping he would have got would have been frightening 

This lad on the other hand didn't get away too easily. Some NFL monster just kicking lumps out of him https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=6HKw4-KOJBs&feature=emb_logo

Those runners he has on are like boots.

Not sure if it's been mentioned here but Floyd and the cop that killed him knew each other very well and were friends at one point when they worked security in a club years ago.

Not quite (and I'm getting into the habit of sourcing from right wing sources to assuage paranoia...):
https://www.foxnews.com/us/george-floyd-fired-officer-derek-chauvin-worked-at-same-minneapolis-nightclub


I don't need someone else's anecdotes to understand Irish history Pedrito; I'm Irish, so like everyone else I don't have to look back too far to feel it. My own grandparents were disowned by their families because one was Catholic, the other Protestant; I had an aunt and uncle who had to move to England in the 60s desperate for work. And they weren't educated, they and the rest of that side of my family grew up in Summerhill.

The violence in Ireland was inevitable because it was already systemic in British rule; the rule was violent. The US is also violent. It's a country built on violence and subjugation, in a way that even the Irish can't fully understand, because even the troubles don't compare to their history of violence, and those who committed the most violence are still on top. Anyway, to me it all seems so immediately understandable that the rage exists there and that it's going to come out in the way it is. Damage to businesses, etc., sure not good. Worrying when you go outside that you might get arrested or killed because a cop misinterprets a situation...difficult even to imagine, but real. And sure, it happens to white people in the US too. But if you're an unarmed non-white, you are up to 10 times more likely to be killed by the police. Not called a thick Mick; actually killed. Every non-white rioter, on top of many of them having fucking shit living conditions, also has that existential threat to contend with. So, you tell me what an "appropriate" response is...?

Fair point on the anecdotes..totally get that. Apart from that there's nobody denying any of that. We'd be fools to. It's how we go about fixing it is my point. It certainly doesn't help.that the president is so divisive. It also doesn't help.that plenty in other quarters, including within the black community, gain a lot by perpetuating myths and drumming up victim mentality. Coronavirus all that shit, yes it's probably inevitable that things would boil over, but it can't always be the answer. There's also the el3phant in the room of antagonism and huge violence and murder rates within certain communities, but we're too fragile and sensitive to actually have a conversation about it, rather glorifying it in art, literature and music. The advances made in the last 40 or 50 years have been monumental. It came through change within the system, protest, awareness, education and certainly not through violence, looting, assault and anarchy. It's not perfect but it's a whole lot better than it was and in recent years a divisive narrative has sprung up again, an us vs them narrative that is poisonous and doesn't reflect the reality on the ground in the majority of fhe US where people of all races are doing business with, riding, living with, having babies with, playing football.with, working with etc etc people of all colours and creeds. The way forward is education, education, education, dialogue and education.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That is the noble way forward. In the US though, more immediate issues to calm anger and the kind of "fuck it" attitude to looting is to provide dignified living conditions, welfare, health-care, gun control, etc., etc. But clearly education and dialogue are also needed in massive doses. Existential security, or lack thereof, is the biggest fomenter at work at the moment, though, or at least that's how I read the situation.

[hellfire]

Maybe welfare, but none of the other things you listed would have any affect on looters.

[Pedrito]

That is the noble way forward. In the US though, more immediate issues to calm anger and the kind of "fuck it" attitude to looting is to provide dignified living conditions, welfare, health-care, gun control, etc., etc. But clearly education and dialogue are also needed in massive doses. Existential security, or lack thereof, is the biggest fomenter at work at the moment, though, or at least that's how I read the situation.

All fair points, there's awful.degredation in the country. I'd prefer to have a gun after some of the videos I've seen though.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Maybe welfare, but none of the other things you listed would have any affect on looters.

They were just random things to indicate what is needed to provide people in the hoods of the US with a bit of security and dignity in their day to day existence.

[hellfire]

Education would seem to be the great equalizer. In some areas you have a much better chance of dying before you're 30 than going to college.

[astfgyl]

I'm of the opinion that the protests have fair reasoning but the looting and burning does not.

There is a pattern everywhere though, where social deprivation leads to civil unrest and if any government can't see that, they shouldn't be in government. Giving these people something to live for and also rooting out the racism in a lot of the police forces there would have the effect of stopping a lot of black on black crime as well as white on black, black on mexican, mexican on white etc because crime wouldn't be the only way to get ahead.

I still can't see how using Floyd's death as an excuse to get a new telly or whatever can be justified, but on the other hand maybe these opportunists are living below the breadline and that looting they are doing now might be a few quid for them in a month or 2 when they sell it on.

Social deprivation is the cause of all of this the more I think about it. It goes way back but it is never too late to try build a fairer society and make a fresh start.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

No one's saying it justifies it. Some of us are saying that it is of relatively absolutely no importance if a Target gets raided. Destroying genuinely local businesses, that is regrettable, but making a big hoo-haa about looting shows how weakly salient the underlying causes of the riots are to some people very far removed from the situation. Personally, I wouldn't bat an eyelid about a television being stolen in this atmosphere; it's not really the main event!

[Juggz]

I'm of the opinion that the protests have fair reasoning but the looting and burning does not.

There is a pattern everywhere though, where social deprivation leads to civil unrest and if any government can't see that, they shouldn't be in government. Giving these people something to live for and also rooting out the racism in a lot of the police forces there would have the effect of stopping a lot of black on black crime as well as white on black, black on mexican, mexican on white etc because crime wouldn't be the only way to get ahead.

I still can't see how using Floyd's death as an excuse to get a new telly or whatever can be justified, but on the other hand maybe these opportunists are living below the breadline and that looting they are doing now might be a few quid for them in a month or 2 when they sell it on.

Social deprivation is the cause of all of this the more I think about it. It goes way back but it is never too late to try build a fairer society and make a fresh start.

The US is not about a fair society, it never has been. They resist universal healthcare FFS. Their culture is about chasing the "American dream", it's not about social welfare or looking after those worse off. There is a very large subset of US society which is viewed as utterly expendible who provide cheap labour, cheap soldiers and are otherwise a financial burden.

"Ask not what your country can do for you..." 

[astfgyl]

When I actually get down to thinking about it, it seems like a truly rotten place and it's only surprising it didn't kick off harder and sooner with the every man for himself attitude that seems ingrained when looking at it from my perspective here. It's probably a lot more complex than the way I'm looking at it though but it's certainly not the model society in any way that I can see.

[Emphyrio]

The looting can't just be written off cos of the obvious underlying issues. Knackers be knacking, we've seen it here too. It does nothing to further the BLM or whatever's cause. It's thuggery. It's awful seeing cops being shot at etc over there but at least there's some line of reasoning behind that. Someone mentioned earlier historical monuments being attacked. That is also a statement. I don't agree with it but there's a reasoning there. Scumbags robbing Air Jordan's and TVs? Pure handicaps.

[astfgyl]

Knackers be knacking

Indeed they do be, and it doesn't further their cause, whatever the arguments for and against it. I do think peaceful protest would make a better impression and give less ammunition to the detractors.

[Emphyrio]

America is very broken. I think it'll be another 100 years before it rights itself. It's absolutely disgusting the way minorities are treated over there. This wanton thuggery is exactly the wrong way to go about drumming up sympathy. And it's a pity it's so rampant because there is a worldwide spotlight on the issue, probably more so than ever since Rodney King.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

This wanton thuggery is exactly the wrong way to go about drumming up sympathy.

That is one of the absurdest implicit suggestions I've read in a long time. An individual looting obviously isn't thinking about drumming up sympathy. An individual looting is a symptom of a chronic disease. In much the same way that (right-wingers and conservatives beware, I'm throwing out a big one) the looting of entire continents was a symptom of a chronic disease. "We're very sorry we enslaved all of your ancestors after stealing them from their homes and used them to make ourselves very rich. We're very sorry we told you you were subhuman and couldn't use the same facilities as us even after we stopped enslaving you. We're sorry for housing you in areas with no prospects, terrible facilities, and the worst education in the country. But now that we've said sorry for all that, be warned that you better not do anything bad against us, or we will fucking kill you, you subhuman scumbag thugs." 

Edit: Sorry, just to be clear, I'm voicing things from the point of view of an underprivileged black person there. That's what America is to them. Stealing a TV, really, why the fuck should they see that as a big deal if they have that historically justified mentality??

[Emphyrio]

This wanton thuggery is exactly the wrong way to go about drumming up sympathy.

That is one of the absurdest implicit suggestions I've read in a long time. An individual looting obviously isn't thinking about drumming up sympathy. An individual looting is a symptom of a chronic disease. In much the same way that (right-wingers and conservatives beware, I'm throwing out a big one) the looting of entire continents was a symptom of a chronic disease. "We're very sorry we enslaved all of your ancestors after stealing them from their homes and used them to make ourselves very rich. We're very sorry we told you you were subhuman and couldn't use the same facilities as us even after we stopped enslaving you. We're sorry for housing you in areas with no prospects, terrible facilities, and the worst education in the country. But now that we've said sorry for all that, be warned that you better not do anything bad against us, or we will fucking kill you, you subhuman scumbag thugs." 

Edit: Sorry, just to be clear, I'm voicing things from the point of view of an underprivileged black person there. That's what America is to them. Stealing a TV, really, why the fuck should they see that as a big deal if they have that historically justified mentality??

Are you an underprivileged black person there?

You're putting in a lot of words there that cover up the obvious, looting is thuggery.