Concepts

[Eoin McLove]

Looking at the thread about Reinkaos has me interested in what people think makes for a successful exploration of concepts within metal albums. I'm not necessarily talking about concept albums, but that might come into it as well. A lot of modern BM bands who have emerged in the wake of the 00s NoEvDia bands seem highly concept driven, diving deeply into the mechanics of Satanism, Judaism or Eastern philosophy.  Nothing wrong with that per se, but I find myself veering away from those bands more often these days. The lyrics are often so encyclopaedic and impenetrable that I wonder where the supposed 'self' of the artist is to be found within it.

I think a more successful approach is the like taken by Bölzer who allude to things,  reference various ideas and ideologies while bringing them all back to a more unique worldview.  They are building blocks for something more personal perhaps. 

It was interesting to see people mention how they felt the concepts in Reinkaos felt a bit forced so what went wrong and how can lyricists avoid these traps?

[Pedrito]

Nice question and one I'd need to sit on for a while. On a very superficial level I think people can smell bullshit when it comes to lyrics and whether you mean them or not. As you say, lyrics that sound encyclopaedic can sound cool but they can also sound extremely forced and give the impression that the singer is hiding something, that they don't want to reveal their identity, it's almost easier to play a character. Now we don't want the other end of the spectrum where every cunt in the world is telling us how they 'feel' on facebook, but, in much the same way a guitarist can put his personality into his music, you would expect a lyric writer to go beyond a conventional, scene driven norm and begin to create something of their own.

That's off the top of my head but I'd need more time to think on it.

[O Drighes]

Satanism has been overused and watered down to "individualism", now Judaism hasn't been really explored so far as eastern philosophy was, at least no great example of it has really caught my eye, it seems to me that staightfoward biblical references and obsessing about the east is the norm at the moment. In the interview with FLAMEKEEPER on Bardo Methodology, Marco put it with one word what I always believed that catchy, successful and inspiring lyrics in any metal subgenre have in common: they are "egosyntonic", they speak to the listener in a way that reinforces their views instead of questioning them.  I'd say that there's an abyss between Venom's cartoonish Satan to Dissection/Watain's well studied references to Lucifer as the adversary, or more recently another secular abyss between Bolzer's Nietzschean, uplifting approach to Mgla's nihilistic cynicism, but they all have a call to rebeliousness that is probably common to fans of any metal subgenre and fall into that process of reinforcement. 

It's a great question though. I think we could do with some example of comparisons between the impenetrable lyrics and its counterparts.

[koper]

Mgla's nihilistic cynicism

Could be a right place to ask about Zientara's lyrics. Just how good are they for the ears of the native speakers of English? Seriously curious.

[mickO)))]

I am the complete opposite I am interested in a lot the NoEvDia type bands and other bands with similar concepts. Like I mentioned in the Dissection thread if you read any of the material that that the lyrics are based on then you see that they are the complete opposite of forced.

I always noticed in Ireland especially on the old forum with people that listen to black metal they just see it as music and nothing more and almost look down on anyone who even tries to see it as more then just music. Anytime anything spiritual or religious was mentioned it would just get mocked and laughed at it as if it's something Marlyn Manson or Slipknot has written.

Don't get me wrong there a lot of bands out there that are talking complete and utter bullshit when it comes to lyrics but Dissection and the NED bands aren't one of them. There is a good reason why NoEvDia is probably one of the most if not the most respected label out there. 

[Eoin McLove]

Indeed,  that's why I said 'in the wake of' when referring to those bands.  It has become schtick. I think there are loads of mystical mumbo jumbo bands pretending to be spiritual and using confusing lyrics because they seem cool.  I think that when done in a convincing way it can be powerful,  but with the sheer amount of copycats that have emerged in the last decade it has been robbed of power. I think that if you can't incorporate these bigger concepts into something original and personal then you are missing the point somewhat.

[mickO)))]

Yes I do agree like I said there are lot of bands talking shite even some of the older ones but for me anyway the ones that are good, are very good like Acherontas, DSO, Funeral Mist, Hetroertzen, LvxCaelis, Nawaharjan, Behexen, Absu, CDG, Dodsengel, Drastus, Warloghe, Ofermod, Nefandus, Orm that runs Scythe of death, Karl from Nastrond etc. just to name a few. I'm not name dropping bands but just giving examples of bands I feel are genuine.

You also have other bands like Sigrblot, Nokturnal Mortum, Spear of Longinus etc. who's lyrics are equally as fascinating but definitely would not be most peoples cup of tea.

Then on the other side you have your Batushkas and some other bands that I don't want to name because I still enjoy the music.

For me anyway to keep me interested for an extended period of time I definitely need some sort of meaning behind the lyrics it doesn't always have to  be mystical Order from Chaos are still to me the greatest band of all time because of the mix of lyrics and music which is as close to perfection as you can get. Pete still has it which is clear from not only the first but also the recently released Abhomine album.