The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

If they are promised work surely a working visa would be appropriate? Those are easy to sort out when a job is assured.

Black market labour jobs, not necessarily communicated as such.

[hellfire]

There was a BBC3 documentary a while back on just how dangerous and poorly paid those black market jobs are. You're suggesting that having them work for pittance on top of claiming benefits is an upgrade from just claiming benefits? Actually, just to summarise, what is your point? Not just with that post, all of it.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You're suggesting that having them work for pittance on top of claiming benefits is an upgrade from just claiming benefits?

No entiendo señor.

You're making some incompatible claims yourself. A couple of posts back it didn't matter to you that asylum seekers wanting to leave France to get to the UK would in fact make less money on UK benefits than they would on French benefits because what mattered was what they'd been told by the smugglers. But now when it comes to black market labour, we have to look at what they will earn in fact and not at what they're promised by the smugglers??

Asylum seekers are not a homogeneous group, y'know. There are vast differences in education, means, etc., among them.

Here was your point at the outset:

Look at the recent deaths in the English Channel. These people weren't fleeing a war torn or impoverished country. They were leaving France. The human traffickers had the UK built up as the land of plenty so much that they got into a vessel that wasn't designed to go more than 50 metres from shore to get there.

I'm countering the claims made here: Some of these people were ultimately fleeing a war torn or impoverished situation. The first woman identified was an Iraqi Kurd. Know anything about the Kurds? Have a look: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/8/iranian-kurds-in-iraq-hopelessly-seek-asylum-un-assistance

You also make the claim that the only reason these people wanted to go to the UK is because smugglers sold it as an El Dorado. This isn't true for all, at least some of those died were trying to rejoin family. Now, in your inhumane world, people shouldn't be allowed try to rejoin their family, and you're welcome to that world, but you will at least admit that it's got nothing whatsoever to do with "dole shopping."

"They were leaving France" - yes. If most of these people were coming from a middle east with historical colonial ties to Britain (i.e. Iran, Iraq, etc.) then it makes sense. Moreover, Iranians have a better chance of being granted asylum in the UK (79%) compared to France (30%) (you can get all these stats here: https://www.worlddata.info/refugees-by-country.php ).

So, to summarize, my point since the beginning has been that you're rattling off Tory tactic tabloid headlines which, when it comes to the question of immigration, are invariably bullshit. Clear?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I will never cease to be amazed by ordinary Irish people who swallow blatantly Tory tactics communicated through tabloid outlets. And you can keep your silly "communism" pokes too. My introduction to socialism was the history of the Easter Rising, through figures like Connolly, Larkin, and O'Brien. First time I ever heard of Marx it was because we were taught Connolly had read him. I wonder would you have been so easily swayed back then by the owner of the Indo using its pages to propagandize for Connolly's execution, supposedly over the Rising but really because of his union strike actions? "Ah sure, was it really so bad after all, being a colony??" says himself. 

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

That may seem an extreme place to bring the conversation, but let's remind ourselves who the current Tory Home Secretary, whose word you're telling us we should trust, really is:
https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-threat-food-shortages-ireland-4381228-Dec2018/?utm_source=twitter_short

AS UK PRIME Minister Theresa May has just five days to try to rally support for her Brexit deal, [Priti Patel] has suggested using the possibility of food shortages in Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit to encourage the EU to drop the backstop.

[hellfire]

You're suggesting that having them work for pittance on top of claiming benefits is an upgrade from just claiming benefits?

No entiendo señor.

You're making some incompatible claims yourself. A couple of posts back it didn't matter to you that asylum seekers wanting to leave France to get to the UK would in fact make less money on UK benefits than they would on French benefits because what mattered was what they'd been told by the smugglers. But now when it comes to black market labour, we have to look at what they will earn in fact and not at what they're promised by the smugglers??
[/quote]

I know you're deliberately misunderstanding that point. It was in response to you saying that French benefits were higher than in the UK. They believe they are and that's why they leave. Even you're not that dense.

You're again deliberately misunderstanding when it comes to black market labour. For one it us illegal and they shouldn't be doing it. Also it puts them in factories and construction sites that are unsafe. That was in response to you saying that they were going to the UK for jobs. If that's their incentive then they are taking the stinging piss out of the asylum system.

Asylum seekers are not a homogeneous group, y'know. There are vast differences in education, means, etc., among them.

The education level for **most** of the countries of origin is significantly lower than the UK.

Here was your point at the outset:

Look at the recent deaths in the English Channel. These people weren't fleeing a war torn or impoverished country. They were leaving France. The human traffickers had the UK built up as the land of plenty so much that they got into a vessel that wasn't designed to go more than 50 metres from shore to get there.

I'm countering the claims made here: Some of these people were ultimately fleeing a war torn or impoverished situation. The first woman identified was an Iraqi Kurd. Know anything about the Kurds? Have a look: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/8/iranian-kurds-in-iraq-hopelessly-seek-asylum-un-assistance

If you are in France and fleeing then you are fleeing France. Short of a crayon diagram with sock puppet aided narration I can't make that any simpler. I dated a Turkish Kurd on and off for six months. I heard plenty about the plight of the Kurds in that time.

So, to summarize, my point since the beginning has been that you're rattling off Tory tactic tabloid headlines which, when it comes to the question of immigration, are invariably bullshit. Clear?

It is not the fault of other forum users that you're sexually frustrated. You don't have the first idea what I read so fuck off with that one. You self righteous little toad.

[hellfire]

The quotes are a mess on that. I'll fix them when I get to my laptop.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

You could be reading the FT for all I know, it doesn't matter. What matters is the language you're coming out with: "dole shoppers", "British benefits or bust." That is UKIP, Daily Mail, rich cunts dividing working class mugs among themselves language, pure and simple.

And don't stoop to Blackout's adolescent levels of imagining the sexual activity status of other people: it's fuckin' weird tbh.

[hellfire]

You could be reading the FT for all I know, it doesn't matter. What matters is the language you're coming out with: "dole shoppers", "British benefits or bust." That is UKIP, Daily Mail, rich cunts dividing working class mugs among themselves language, pure and simple.

And don't stoop to Blackout's adolescent levels of imagining the sexual activity status of other people: it's fuckin' weird tbh.

Men who are well catered for sexually don't spend all their time arguing on the internet. My missus has had covid for over a week and here I find myself. I'm not sure why these terms bother you so much. They perfectly illustrate what I was saying without the need for four lines of text.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Much as I'd like to spend the time I have to kill at work every day riding my missus, it's just not logistically possible!

[hellfire]

You should try it when you go home at least. That full scrotal sack rage you suffer with daily will ease significantly.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Okay, so seems I was wrong to think you above such childishness. Way to completely discredit yourself, bravo.

[hellfire]

I just try to help 

[Blackout]

You could be reading the FT for all I know, it doesn't matter. What matters is the language you're coming out with: "dole shoppers", "British benefits or bust." That is UKIP, Daily Mail, rich cunts dividing working class mugs among themselves language, pure and simple.

And don't stoop to Blackout's adolescent levels of imagining the sexual activity status of other people: it's fuckin' weird tbh.

The only Adolescent levels in this forum are your double speak, condescending non-sensical rants. Time to go get that Autism diagnosis mate.

[Caomhaoin]

I used to tip a wan who was the Spanish equivalent of a public defender, she would be sent to the airport to represent asylum seekers. She said almost all of the cases she was involved in were spurious, or deemed to be so, and they would be ejected with minimum fuss.

She also said one lad bit his tongue off to avoid being given the heave-ho.

Chris, you have some stats here and there which are news to me, and may have merit. You do seem intent on closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears when presented with the undeniable truth ; there are large numbers of piss-takers and chancers who see the way the wind is blowing (or was at least) and I don't blame them, I'd do the exact same thing to escape the shit boxes some of these lads are coming from.

But come on. You're messing now if you can't see the wood from the trees.