The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[hellfire]

Treated within the realms of mental disorders and not with amputations, augmentations and hormones. I think you copped that but intentionally misunderstood.

[son of the Morrigan]

Funnily enough, although it still remains no more than a simplistic analogy by any account, the most common cognitive treatment for phantom limb syndrome actually does consist in leaning into the illusion and giving the subject the impression that they do actually physically possess the limb they sense. Complex aul thing the brain, even more so the mind!

Is there any case of a man having his penis removed because he thought he was a woman , who then developed phantom penis syndrome following the amputation, only to be told the best treatment for his syndrome was to pretend he still had a penis, rendering the amputation ultimately pointless?
Poor bastard.

[astfgyl]

Fuck it I'm going to weigh in...

I think it is probably a physical disorder, as in the brain of someone born a woman who thinks they are a man is probably wired up wrong and there isn't much that can be done about it. So in that sense it is a mental disorder but does anyone know if mental disorders are actually physical in nature? I dunno, but with so little of the actual workings of the brain actually understood at this point it can't be ruled out that it's physical, much like having a short leg or similar. I don't think gay people choose to be gay any more than I choose to be straight or can do any more about it than I can do about being left handed, so it must be physical at the root of it even while being understood as a mental disorder. Then there are the current cultural influences which seem to lead many people to believe that what is not right in how they feel is connected to being born the wrong sex, and the solution (transgenderism) is in vogue, whether it is in fact the actual solution or not. I would like to know how many people change sex only to find that they still don't feel like their problem is solved even with all of the cultural acceptance that it entails nowadays and they still feel like they don't belong. It won't be none, surely. I feel sorry for them and if calling them he instead of she makes them feel better, then so be it. Shouting from the rooftops about how I should understand or care for their plight leaves me somewhat unmoved all the same. Live and let live, take the yoke and we will all be fine in the end. The victim complex so prevalent in every walk of life these days is boring as fuck and prevents any actual progress in attitudes.

That brings me to another thought I was having lately regarding homosexuality. Can it be the case that someone is sexually attracted to the same sex, but for love and companionship still feel the need for the opposite sex (or the other way around)? Or does love simply boil down to sexual attraction at the end of it? Like can a fella want to have sex with his missus but end up unsatisfied because it is the companionship of another man which would truly fulfill him but he won't want to ride him? Bit tangential but sure the conversation and the subject are fucked as it is so why not?

[Grim Reality]

On the last bit, Astfygl, sure thats the norm. The majority of men want to bang their wives out of sexual lust but its the friendships with male friends where they get their companionship. This craic of 'my wife is my best friend' is mainly Hollywood stuff.

[Eoin McLove]

In the immortal words of Right Said Fred, don't talk just kiss, let your tongue fool around.

[Grim Reality]

I also think all these trans things, homosexuality etc are disorders. Mental or physical I don't know. But a disorder and a type of deviancy for sure. Some of these things are harmful,  some not. Heterosexuals wanting to engage in anal sex with their partners are also deviants in my book. Along with the bdsm crowd and similar fetishists. Its relatively minor stuff. But is part of the same book of sexual mis-wiring that includes gays, trans and whatever else. Thankfully most cases are benign and your Jeffrey Dahmers are rare.

[Giggles]

I also think all these trans things, homosexuality etc are disorders. Mental or physical I don't know. But a disorder and a type of deviancy for sure. Some of these things are harmful,  some not. Heterosexuals wanting to engage in anal sex with their partners are also deviants in my book. Along with the bdsm crowd and similar fetishists. Its relatively minor stuff. But is part of the same book of sexual mis-wiring that includes gays, trans and whatever else. Thankfully most cases are benign and your Jeffrey Dahmers are rare.

Do you geniunely believe that the "order" of nature is supposed to "wire" everybody to only be attracted to the opposite sex?

Do you actually believe that?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

What's the gist of that logic then? Gaia hates the gays?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Treated within the realms of mental disorders and not with amputations, augmentations and hormones. I think you copped that but intentionally misunderstood.

In cases where there's some kind of dysregulation of the endocrine system, treating it as a "mental" disorder will accomplish very little, if anything at all. Not an easy thing to detect or verify either.

As I said, we can hardly be surprised at how militant certain factions of the trans and allies community have become in trying to dictate to the rest of society when there is still a vocal, largely uninformed discourse pretending it knows best and that they're all just mental and should be treated accordingly.

[Bigmac]

In cases where there's some kind of dysregulation of the endocrine system, treating it as a "mental" disorder will accomplish very little, if anything at all. Not an easy thing to detect or verify either.

I'm studying organic horticulture at the moment, and naturally that entails looking at the effects of pesticides. I've been looking at a couple of studies on Endocrine Disruptor Pesticides like the one here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138025/

But I've very little knowledge on how the endocrine system works. However looking at the first one listed in Table 1 for example, the effects are stated as:

Synergistic androgenic effects when combined with testosterone.

While the study here states:

Likewise, there seems to be a growing concern with regards to the relationship between endocrine disruptors and transsexuals as well as other gender minority populations.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5825045/

Concluding that:

Furthermore, a working hypothesis exists with regards to possible association of endocrine disrupting chemicals and transgender identity or other gender-related issues.

From your own experience with the dysregulation of the endocrine system (I'm assuming you'd know more than me), do you think pesticides could contribute to this? It's very Alex Jones though, considering the shit he got about the gay frogs thing a while back, but there does seem to be something to it.

[hellfire]

Treated within the realms of mental disorders and not with amputations, augmentations and hormones. I think you copped that but intentionally misunderstood.

In cases where there's some kind of dysregulation of the endocrine system, treating it as a "mental" disorder will accomplish very little, if anything at all. Not an easy thing to detect or verify either.

Which cases? It's a possible avenue being explored. Nothing more.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Treating it as a "mental disorder" has also been explored in depth, over decades and decades, but it was found to be generally unresponsive to psychotherapy, as with homosexuality. So then, drugs? But if drugs, why not hormones?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I'm not suggesting all or even most cases of gender dysphoria are related to dysregulation of the endocrine system. I'm saying that the science is still out on the neurobiology of the condition, and as such no one can yet say what is definitely the best way of dealing with it. I'm personally skeptical of puberty blockers for young children, even more so of surgical intervention in minors, but I know that there is absolutely not a compelling body of evidence to state that treating it as a mental disorder is the "best" way to go, and if anything the evidence rather goes in the opposite direction. Besides which, I highly doubt your conclusion that it is a mental disorder is based on any kind of science, rather than on your own cultural prejudices, as evidenced by your refusal to "bother" with something as simple as referring to someone you are capable of recognizing lives as a woman by "she". You hardly lend credence to your medical opinion with an attitude like that.

[hellfire]

As things currently stand there is no known biological cause for it.  The causes of homosexuality are pretty poorly understood too. So what were you just bleating on about?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

To sum up, you've decided it's a "mental problem" and you've moreover decided it's of the type of mental problem where resistance to (as per, you say, schizophrenia) as opposed to acceptance of (as per dissociative identity disorder, which your vision of it is surely closer to) the mental content is the solution. And all this is based on what? The great history of successes with treating gender dysphoria and homosexuality as mental disorders? Oh wait, that was a total failure, largely because it placed "morality" (read "sin") concerns above individual well-being concerns. Do you care about the individual well-being of the transsexual you work with? Because it is possible to call her she and still be skeptical about other manifestations of gender theory. It might even help us get somewhere!