The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Gender dysphoria isn't classified as a delusion, neither in the current DSM-V nor in the previous DSM-IV, before it was given its own subsection. It's almost like it's not the same as anorexia or schizophrenia.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Funnily enough, although it still remains no more than a simplistic analogy by any account, the most common cognitive treatment for phantom limb syndrome actually does consist in leaning into the illusion and giving the subject the impression that they do actually physically possess the limb they sense. Complex aul thing the brain, even more so the mind!

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Wait, they're all coming to me now; multiple personality disorder too, one of the newer more effective treatments leads the subject to engage with their multiple personalities, distinguish them even more by giving them different voices, etc., and embracing them as part of their mental life rather than resisting or trying to silence them.

[Kurt Cocaine]

Yep, I'd definitely take it from behind.

For the manicured hands and nails on your back? 

Rrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrr.....  :

[hellfire]

Gender dysphoria isn't classified as a delusion, neither in the current DSM-V nor in the previous DSM-IV, before it was given its own subsection. It's almost like it's not the same as anorexia or schizophrenia.

"Gender dysphoria is a diagnosis listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association to diagnose mental conditions. This term is intended to be more descriptive than the one that was previously used, gender identity disorder. The term gender dysphoria focuses on one's discomfort as the problem, rather than identity. A diagnosis for gender dysphoria was created to help people get access to necessary health care and effective treatment."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

My girlfriend has a hard copy of the DSM 5. I'm looking at the entry right now.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/delusion

[hellfire]

Wait, they're all coming to me now; multiple personality disorder too, one of the newer more effective treatments leads the subject to engage with their multiple personalities, distinguish them even more by giving them different voices, etc., and embracing them as part of their mental life rather than resisting or trying to silence them.

You'd know plenty about multiple personalities. What do yo call someone who is immediately qualified to speak on everything that comes up on a metal forum? I know in a pub it's referred to as a bullshitter.

CBT also involves examining ones thought process. I believe the treatment you're referring to helps the sufferer stop feeling shame over what they can't change. It does not in any way encourage them to develop new personalities  (don't think they can).

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I said it isn't classed as a delusion, thanks for the textual confirmation.

[hellfire]

Believing something that is not real is a delusion. I included it at the end for you. Try to keep up.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Delusions are one of the clinical diagnosis criteria for, for example, schizophrenia, in the DSM. They are not for gender dysphoria, neither in the current nor precedent editions of the DSM, though you know better than them when it suits you, of course. In any case, that was what I stated, and it stands. Multiple personality disorder is also not classed as a form of delusion, since the personalities are experienced as equally real. My point since the beginning is that different neuropsychological conditions have different symptoms, different causes, different associated subjective experiences, and - necessarily as a result of the preceding - different treatments. My other point is that genuine science is not on hand to shore up anyone's folk prejudices about how biology, physiology, or life in general works.

[hellfire]

It is a mental disorder. Mental disorders make people believe things that aren't true. You are trying to split hairs regarding phrasing. You are an expert on something different roughly every three to five days.  I imagine you would love to be seen as a genuine scientist, that is definitely a delusion. I could claim to be a scientist too based on different pieces of paper I collected from colleges, doesn't make it so.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

It is a mental disorder. Mental disorders make people believe things that aren't true. You are trying to split hairs regarding phrasing. You are an expert on something different roughly every three to five days.  I imagine you would love to be seen as a genuine scientist, that is definitely a delusion. I could claim to be a scientist too based on different pieces of paper I collected from colleges, doesn't make it so.

You come across as a very petty and somewhat bitter man. If you must know, I've been employed as a researcher in a lab for almost six years now. Half the time I post on here, even earlier today, I'm waiting on rotations of experiments to finish up. Five minutes here, ten minutes there, too short to really get into anything substantial, over the space of several hours.

That aside, I'm not splitting hairs. I'm presenting things as "the science" presents them. Go ahead, you've already looked up the criteria for gender dysphoria in your girlfriend's hard copy of the DSM-V (I only have pdfs, sorry to disappoint), so why not look up the criteria for schizophrenia and dissociative identity disorder too? Pay attention to the details; it's no accident that one mentions delusions and another doesn't. It's also no accident that you won't anywhere find in it the sentence "mental disorders make people believe things that aren't true." Someone's extended nervous system (central, peripheral, endocrine system, etc.) could make them feel like they shouldn't have the genitalia they physically possess. In what sense would you class that feeling as "not true"? Phantom limb patients experience genuine pain which they can localize to specific sub-regions of a limb that is not there. But the pain is real, can be monitored, can even be treated with pain killers. In what sense would you class that feeling as "not true"?

[hellfire]

Phantom limb syndrome wouldn't be a thing if people who had it didn't feel a limb that wasn't there. Anorexia would not be a thing if people who were underweight didn't believe they were fat. Some cases of depression makes people believe themselves unwortu of life. None of this is true.

Science has many areas and you don't get to speak for all of it. I am qualified in computer science but know nothing of assembly language. I don't get to make staments as if I were. No consultant psychiatrist would talk in the absolutes that you do. You spray hysterical horseshit 90% of the time, twist and turn on words and basically  keep going until the other person gets bored of you. You are a particular type of moron that believes it is always right.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Let's just remind ourselves that all of this is over you not wanting to say she instead of he. And I'm precisely not speaking in absolutes; you're doing that. I'm speaking in hypotheticals and stating what it is that science can't (yet) state, but which people with folk visions of neurophysiology desperately want it to. Sorry, ain't how it works.

[hellfire]

This is more about me believing that being in the wrong body is a mental disorder that should be treated accordingly. If science can't yet state it then don't present it as science. Get back to running those stool samples.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The fitting treatment being what?