The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Peterson has nothing to do with a genuinely scientific analysis of the question. The point I was making is that, personally, I think a lot of the overboard element we're now faced with, as illustrated by the Webb anecdote there, is because of people being dicks for the longest time about something that was relatively easy to do; let a man live as a woman if that's how she feels, and refer to her accordingly. Were it not for the kind of people who just decades ago insisted God had created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve and that mental illness was the work of demons (not that these people have altogether disappeared), were it not for them with their dogmatic attachment to a biblical view of what is "natural" and what is "sinful", then live and let live, rather than live and damn to hell, would have been a lot easier for everyone to just get along with. In short, I think as a society we have the LGBTQ+ furore that we deserve.

[Caomhaoin]

Echos of that are sounding by BLM maniacs saying that they support the looting because they are 'owed' a colossal debt by society.

Sorry, you're not owed anything for simply existing.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

I didn't say anything about being owed. Are black communities owed something? It could be debated. Do Nike as a moral entity deserve to have their shops looted? Absolutely.

What is owed and what is deserved are not the same thing. I don't deserve not to be able to have reasonable conversations about gender and sexuality, but as a society I do believe we deserve the attack we're under. We laid the groundwork for it with myth and fantasy, and now some of the same interested parties are calling upon science as defense. It is absurd and hilarious. Welcome to humanity!

[Caomhaoin]

Why are we conflating the institutional demonising of homosexuals in the past with fanatical trans activism in 2021?

In fact, I don't see why non-heterosexual groups are thrown in with sufferers of gender dysphoria at all.

LGB. Fine. Work away. Nobody cares, apart from the Muslims. Maybe you're best off not making a song and dance about it in Poland or Russia, but I doubt a single user of this board gives a solitary shite if homosexuals blast each other up the arse or not.

Trannies bashing girls in octagons and Aussie rules and their advocates turning into the NKVD and compelling speech and pretending to believe non-science is another kettle of fish entirely.

[Caomhaoin]

If 'black communities' (whatever that means) are owed reparations, what about me? That's a serious question.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Ah yes, you're right, they demonized homosexuals but were totally grand with transsexuals, my bad.

[Caomhaoin]

Maybe, but why are you lumping them in together?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

All so many individuals the conservative right saw as unnatural sinners, vessels for the devil's work. And I'm talking as much about the evangelical movement in the US, still hugely powerful, as I am about a waning Catholic church in Europe.

[Caomhaoin]

You're not answering questions so much as making clear your position.

But surely if the Reichsführer SS can admit that the rights view on climate change are embarrassing, you might let the mask slip n'all a bit.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Yeah, but just as I think parroted and exaggerated appeals to the authority of science are counter-productive to altering views on climate change, so I think parroted and exaggerated appeals to a folk vision of science are counter-productive to calming the discourse around gender and sexuality and their place in society, education, etc. You didn't seem to get my point about the neurobiology of dysphoria; of course you haven't seen any evidence for it, because as a discipline, as far as I know, neurobiology has thusfar nothing to say about it, other than that it is a hypothetical possibility. E.g. exactly where addiction neurobiology was a couple of decades ago. Now the science shows that certain individuals have a latent proclivity to becoming addicts, and we know where that most likely happens and what kind of brain-environment circumstances are most likely to favour it. For example, alcohol gains in addictive potential when taken as a stress-reliever, because stress dysregulates the reward system. So, like I said, there is absolutely no reason to believe that gender dysphoria, and various other conditions, don't also have solidly biological underpinnings which we just haven't been able to study in-depth yet, both because it's a new question, and also because, unlike addiction, it would be almost impossible to model in animals in order to invasively analyze and alter brain activity.

Okay, blah blah blah maybe, but that's how real science works, and if you think that  you or anyone you're echoing, by "addressing" the issue with talk like "a woman is a woman is a woman" or "it's still fact on a physiological level," are doing any actual good, then maybe we should chuck twenty years of addiction science too and go back to telling all the filthy winos and junkies to just sort their lives out. I think by not taking the neurobiology of (wait for it!) people's lived experiences seriously enough, we have only ever done a disservice by trying to shoehorn reality into our folk understandings. It could well be that many men who feel like women and women who feel like men have as much control over it as a sufferer of Parkinson's has over their trembling (that's also all in the brain) or an Alzheimer's patient over what they can or can't remember when they attempt to recall experiences. "You're a man, stop asking me to refer to you as she!" might then be as thick-headed a thing to say as "You're a man, stop shaking around like that!" Do you know? No, you don't, and neither does science, but that's the gist of the subjective reports, and that's a good enough starting point for taking it seriously, scientifically speaking.

[Eoin McLove]

I've actually been to the future and I've seen how this all plays out. I don't want to give anything away so all I'll say is, you're all going to be pleasantly surprised. Well,  maybe not you, Chris, but everyone else. Pleasantly surprised indeed!

[Kunt 4 Life]

What happens to us in the future? What, do we become assholes or something?

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

We evolve into a species where every individual has both sets of genitalia, fully functional.

[open face surgery]

I've actually been to the future and I've seen how this all plays out. I don't want to give anything away so all I'll say is, you're all going to be pleasantly surprised. Well,  maybe not you, Chris, but everyone else. Pleasantly surprised indeed!

[Caomhaoin]

Me and you in the ring Chris.

Nothing personal.

Why is nobody onto the trannies and homos ONGs to make it impossible for him to get out of?

Kurt and Blackout vs Giggles and Juggz in an 'she's not a he' I quit match.

I'm chomping at the bit here.