The PC and Perpetually Offended Brigade

[ldj]

Jaysus I made a cunt out of that.

.

A left wing society for me would mean our taxes going towards what they are actually intended for, state operated housing, education, healthcare, welfare etc.

Regulate the housing market so investment firms and landlords can't continue fucking over the people of Ireland.

Stop privatisation of what should be essential public services and use our taxes for what they should actually be used for.

And actually tax the rich/corporations for they actually should be taxed.

Our government are neo-liberal which means they value corporations and money more than the people, which in my view is right wing.

[Caomhaoin]

Quite a lot of that is more than reasonable. Can't we have that (SF say they want it but will never deliver) without the postmodern shit that has wrapped it's tentacles around the left?

[astfgyl]

The coverage of the Ireland for all march was a bit of a joke. It doesn't change the fact that these toads represent a minority opinion. News outlets portrayed it as proof this retarded ideology is still winning. It isn't and pretending like it is makes them look foolish.

Load of shit is what that was. NGOs bussing members in from all over the country and a free gig and they still had to inflate the shit out of the numbers. The government has lost the room on this one and there's no going back on it. The carry on around that counter protest will only further alienate people and fuel their fire that the news media is lying for the government.

Saying all that, I think the government know this and that's why the rhetoric has dampened slightly over the last week or two.

This isn't going away anyway

[astfgyl]

Jaysus I made a cunt out of that.

.

A left wing society for me would mean our taxes going towards what they are actually intended for, state operated housing, education, healthcare, welfare etc.

Regulate the housing market so investment firms and landlords can't continue fucking over the people of Ireland.

Stop privatisation of what should be essential public services and use our taxes for what they should actually be used for.

And actually tax the rich/corporations for they actually should be taxed.

Our government are neo-liberal which means they value corporations and money more than the people, which in my view is right wing.

I think that was pretty much always the case but it has been twisted beyond recognition. Nice balanced and fair system

[Caomhaoin]

The coverage of the Ireland for all march was a bit of a joke. It doesn't change the fact that these toads represent a minority opinion. News outlets portrayed it as proof this retarded ideology is still winning. It isn't and pretending like it is makes them look foolish.

Load of shit is what that was. NGOs bussing members in from all over the country and a free gig and they still had to inflate the shit out of the numbers. The government has lost the room on this one and there's no going back on it. The carry on around that counter protest will only further alienate people and fuel their fire that the news media is lying for the government.

Saying all that, I think the government know this and that's why the rhetoric has dampened slightly over the last week or two.

This isn't going away anyway

It was the headline yesterday and it's been completely abandoned as of now. They might think twice next time , the lying pricks.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Obviously I've no idea how many were actually there, but this time lapse of part of the cortege shows it was at least a fair few:
https://twitter.com/jadeswilson/status/1626952427336335360

On the other hand, the evidence I've seen to say there wasn't that many seems to consist of people not understanding that even if there were a million in total, there is a physical limit on how many human beings can fit, stationary, on the quays outside the custom house:
https://twitter.com/Ebhlin4/status/1627210004301316097

Presumably ye have better evidence for your claims though...

[astfgyl]

Obviously I've no idea how many were actually there, but this time lapse of part of the cortege shows it was at least a fair few:
https://twitter.com/jadeswilson/status/1626952427336335360

On the other hand, the evidence I've seen to say there wasn't that many seems to consist of people not understanding that even if there were a million in total, there is a physical limit on how many human beings can fit, stationary, on the quays outside the custom house:
https://twitter.com/Ebhlin4/status/1627210004301316097

Presumably ye have better evidence for your claims though...

https://twitter.com/keira_connolly1/status/1627295649577279490?t=ad_3Sfv1MN0L3-sjnzC7bw&s=19

https://twitter.com/JamesD74431175/status/1627221709513191425?t=uLXIcNYmYoR9KgO98EN_9A&s=19

Definitely 50k 🤣🤣🤣

And look we used the same picture

[mickO)))]

https://twitter.com/keira_connolly1/status/1627295649577279490?t=ad_3Sfv1MN0L3-sjnzC7bw&s=19

https://twitter.com/JamesD74431175/status/1627221709513191425?t=uLXIcNYmYoR9KgO98EN_9A&s=19

Definitely 50k 🤣🤣🤣

And look we used the same picture

What is even funnier is it was the same reporter that covered both events in the photos you posted above. Saw a twitter post earlier today as well from someone either at the Irish times or Independent who posted that 50k attended the march they deleted the post after an hour and reposted the same thing word for word but they replaced 50k with 15k.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The rally began at 1:30pm. That video you're linking to (if the "now" is to be taken seriously) was filmed after 5pm. I mean, there are clearly less people in that video than there are even in the meaningless comparison photo, so I guess logic dictates that many people had left by 5pm.

The time lapse video I linked to was posted to Twitter at 3:30pm yesterday, so is presumably a more reliable indicator of crowd size.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Customs House at 3:30pm -
https://twitter.com/CMacCaba/status/1626952314052288514

[The Butcher]

Here we see setting it to packed/moshpit size  we are hitting 5 people per sqm and we get 24405, set to 2 people per sqm and we get closer to 10,000 ->

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpV54e1WYAIteXg?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Didn't the Gardai mention about 20,000 in their estimates? Regardless, 50,000 is way way off the mark. I'd be more inclined to go closer to the Gardai one rather than the 5,000/10,000 the other side are spouting.

Anyway - debating these figures are inconsequential. The figures that do have huge meaning are the immigration numbers. We simply cannot continue bringing in 70k+ at the pace we are doing so. We've seen how this has played out in other countries, if we can't manage our own housing/health/homeless crisis, good luck trying to tell me we'll handle integration of that magnitude. We are doing them a disservice too.

I think there probably are more Irish citizens who, all other things being equal, would feel a desire to parade the streets to say "Welcome" than there are Irish citizens who would want to protest outside a refugee centre to say "Get the fuck out."

Now, all other things aren't equal, but the fact remains that the #IrelandIsFull brigade can't and for the most part apparently don't want to excise from their ranks those kind of people who want to protest outside refugee centres. And don't be fucking kidding yourselves; doing that, specifically, doesn't take balls, it takes hatred, either of the misdirected or the very knowingly directed kind. If there are people spying on protests being held in sensible places which don't amount to pure intimidation with a view to doxxing participants, then those people are scum, no qualms here about calling that spade a spade. But I still haven't heard the voices who are able to both lucidly express the reasonable concerns and simultaneously condemn the voices of your Gript staff and worse. Who might such an individual or individuals be?? Because we hear the Gript and liberal.ie folk loud enough; who are their reasonable counterparts?? Genuine question. And don't say Douglas Murray; I'm talking about Irish voices.

Do a genuine majority have reservations about how the country is being run? Well, if they do, only the next elections will tell the actual weight of those reservations.

These are all good points and the answer is, the other side have always had these types of nutjobs from the get go and indeed they should cleanse themselves of those idiots. From what I've seen there isn't really a coherent voice within their ranks. I've seen how the liberal/Gript have acted throughout previous referendums and no way would you saddle your horse with them conservative twats and their shitty stables.

This is where I feel democracy hasn't been setup significantly enough to deal with the modern world and needs to be strengthened. Dev should have went further and had a referendum on nearly everything and get more people clued in, disinformation and the feeling of alienation of certain factions will only increase and lead them out of their echo chambers and into the mainstream when their narratives take hold.

Central bank employees were forecasting "Ireland is now competing for migrants with other European countries facing similarly tight domestic labour markets. Further, whilst migration inflows can assist in dampening wage growth, increased numbers of migrants will create overheating pressure in other areas of the economy, and particularly in the already congested housing market" (Conefrey, O'Reilly, Walsh & Zavalloni, 2019).

A lot of what ldj mentioned was reasonable to me. We should be both banning foreign vulture funds removing their overwhelming purchasing power on such a tiny island and slapping a massive inhibiting progressive tax on them owning properties. Derelict sites and properties, those owners should be hounded after like they would if you owed money to revenue. Back in 2013 the FG/Lab government spend money on DEMOLISHING ghost estates. Incompetence? Corruption? It was never in any governments interests to solve the housing crisis when you had the likes of bailing out banks/pensions and having the likes of NAMA. High immigration like we are seeing is compounding all these issues - and allows the government to continue the globalism train on it's corporate tracks, all the way down to the forever consuming capitalism land.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

Ha, that's a cool little widget!

This is where I feel democracy hasn't been setup significantly enough to deal with the modern world and needs to be strengthened. Dev should have went further and had a referendum on nearly everything and get more people clued in

100%

Even from my supposedly red commie scum perspective, getting to that point and everything it entails is a more crucial step, with regards to universal human welfare, than any more identifiably socialist changes: not an aim but a condition for what I would refer to as democratic socialism.

[hellfire]

Central bank employees were forecasting "Ireland is now competing for migrants with other European countries facing similarly tight domestic labour markets. Further, whilst migration inflows can assist in dampening wage growth, increased numbers of migrants will create overheating pressure in other areas of the economy, and particularly in the already congested housing market" (Conefrey, O'Reilly, Walsh & Zavalloni, 2019).

Terms like migrants and immigrants are too broad. They describe everything from a Pakistani doctor to a Georgian layabout. There is indeed stiff competition for certain subsets of immigrants. I know for a fact that IT hiring managers get very excited when they get a CV from a qualified Indian lad. This is why most people argue for an Australian type points system rather than a complete sealing of the borders. Bringing in tons of unskilled labour punishes those in lower income professions. The only time they will see a pay increase is on those rare occasions the legal minimum wage is increased.

[Black Shepherd Carnage]

The antics and discourse of #IrelandIsFull, etc., doesn't exactly make Ireland an attractive place for highly qualified foreign workers, does it now? You'll tell me if it's otherwise, but surely if foreign labourers coming in punishes those in lower income professions, that's primarily because the employers are being stingy exploitative pricks, no? In real terms, are there areas of employment where immigrants are the cause of Irish people being unemployed? Bearing in mind that unemployment in Ireland is literally as low now as it's ever been in our lifetimes (~4% https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/unemployment-rate).

Seems to me that housing, not employment, is the real issue. Because whoever they be, even if ye lot got to individually hand pick all of them according to your scrupulous standards, if enough people were brought in to fill the worker shortage, there still wouldn't be enough housing for them. We need workers (including "unskilled", who could easily be put into apprenticeships, where Irish candidates are also lacking) and so we need houses for those workers.

[hellfire]

Whose we? You haven't paid tax here in years. Labour like everything else is a commodity. Even with my primitive leaving cert economics I can deduce that when you increase the supply of something the price goes down. Highly qualified workers don't give a shit about the asylum process, social housing or anything to do with minimum wage. I work with four Indian lads who are forever in awe of the complete stupidity of providing welfare and social supports to people from other countries. The housing crisis affects them too and they have almost exactly the same opinions on Irish immigration policies as I do.