This is a strange one, Tau Cross had a new album coming out next month and Relapse have pulled the album and dropped them from the label after it was brought to their attention a holocaust denier was credited by Rob Miller in the liner notes for inspiring lyrics on the album.
According to Relapse's statement the other members didn't know about the guy thanked.
Would love to know how you go from being in Amebix to being a holocaust denier.
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/relapse-on-dropping-tau-cross-bands-liner-notes-prominently-thanked-holocaust-denier-gerard-menuhin/
Quote from: ldj on July 03, 2019, 10:25:40 PM
This is a strange one, Tau Cross had a new album coming out next month and Relapse have pulled the album and dropped them from the label after it was brought to their attention a holocaust denier was credited by Rob Miller in the liner notes for inspiring lyrics on the album.
According to Relapse's statement the other members didn't know about the guy thanked.
Would love to know how you go from being in Amebix to being a holocaust denier.
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/relapse-on-dropping-tau-cross-bands-liner-notes-prominently-thanked-holocaust-denier-gerard-menuhin/
I'd love to know how you go from thanking someone who is an alleged holocaust denier to being a holocaust denier.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 03, 2019, 10:53:41 PM
Quote from: ldj on July 03, 2019, 10:25:40 PM
This is a strange one, Tau Cross had a new album coming out next month and Relapse have pulled the album and dropped them from the label after it was brought to their attention a holocaust denier was credited by Rob Miller in the liner notes for inspiring lyrics on the album.
According to Relapse's statement the other members didn't know about the guy thanked.
Would love to know how you go from being in Amebix to being a holocaust denier.
http://www.brooklynvegan.com/relapse-on-dropping-tau-cross-bands-liner-notes-prominently-thanked-holocaust-denier-gerard-menuhin/
I'd love to know how you go from thanking someone who is an alleged holocaust denier to being a holocaust denier.
Fair enough but I'd find it hard to believe they got dropped just for mentioning him in the liner notes. Will be interesting to see the lyrics should the album ever be released but I imagine they share the deniers views.
According to the Relapse statement that is exactly what happened.
According to their statement the lyrics and themes of the album dabble in the ideology.
It'll be interesting to hear his own version of events. I really don't like this state of panic that exists whenever musicians or artists step out of line or refuse to conform to what they are told is correct and proper- isn't that usually what makes these creative characters so interesting?? Maybe this is his fuck you to the far left's policing of everyone? I'm assuming that given his own historical leanings that it's not as black and white as the Kim Kelly brigade will make out. I could be wrong and he has recently joined the BNP but it's a bit unlikely.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 03, 2019, 11:27:26 PM
I really don't like this state of panic that exists whenever musicians or artists step out of line or refuse to conform to what they are told is correct and proper- isn't that usually what makes these creative characters so interesting??
I agree with you on that I just thought it was interesting (and most of all surprising) considering his background. To be honest the biggest shock reading the headlining was imagining Away from Voivod being involved in something like this :laugh:.
To be fair usually artists with 'controversial' views or opinions have a history of such, like no one would be surprised if Varg came out as a holocaust denier.
But he hasn't come out with anything other than thanking the guy for inspiration. Inspiration comes from unlikely places at times and who knows how the guy's work actually influenced his song writing. It's ludicrous that certain topics are completely off limits. Art should be boundless and adults should be allowed to decide for themselves what is or isn't appropriate. The irony of this matter is that it has drawn loads of attention to a writer many people have never previously heard of and will probably cause them to read his book out of curiosity if nothing else. And then, of course, they'll be Nazis ::)
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 03, 2019, 11:54:41 PM
But he hasn't come out with anything other than thanking the guy for inspiration. Inspiration comes from unlikely places at times and who knows how the guy's work actually influenced his song writing. It's ludicrous that certain topics are completely off limits. Art should be boundless and adults should be allowed to decide for themselves what is or isn't appropriate. The irony of this matter is that it has drawn loads of attention to a writer many people have never previously heard of and will probably cause them to read his book out of curiosity if nothing else. And then, of course, they'll be Nazis ::)
Brilliant!! I totally agree with you on that, but then again in this time and age wouldn't he know better? If Tau Cross supported that ideology I'd say fair play for not giving a fuck to political correctness and including him in the thanks list, but judging by the statement the band posted it seems to me that Rob attempted to let his personal agenda totally jeopardize the album.
Is there access to the lyrics? I'd be surprised if they leaned on that topic from a proselyte perspective.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 03, 2019, 11:54:41 PM
The irony of this matter is that it has drawn loads of attention to a writer many people have never previously heard of and will probably cause them to read his book out of curiosity if nothing else. And then, of course, they'll be Nazis ::)
Exactly that. I'd never heard of him before, and I just ordered Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil to see what all the fuss is about.
Congratulations, you are now a Nazi. Expect your gigs to be cancelled by Antifa :laugh:
News just in: Label that gave us Craig Pillard (an actual holocaust denier), Seth Putnam and Regurgitate suddenly develops conscience. As Cyndi Lauper said, "Money changes everything"
Bit baffled by this. Saw someone on twitter saying there were a couple of other conspiracy theorists thanked as well, and basically the guy's name was just mentioned in the credits along with them, and that the lyrics weren't suss in any way shape or form. But it seems odd that the man himself hasn't made a statement on it, given his past and that of his bandmates. Even as an avowed leftie, I'm unsure if there's more to this than we're currently hearing or if this is just Relapse suddnly panicing because they don't want to lose money in a climate where Political Correctness in metal is an issue. But yeah, the other members being from Voivod, Misery and Provoked ..I mean we're not exactly dealing with an NSBM band here are we?
On a personal note as someone who's always loathed Amebix and is a bit of a vindictive prick, I'd secretly love it to to come out that he's actually a nazi just to see how the punks react.
Oh, just reading the others' band members statement:
"Tau Cross was an outlet for us to experience the love and passion we all have, while staying true to our beliefs and ideals. "
So they're done?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 04, 2019, 08:54:26 AM
Congratulations, you are now a Nazi. Expect your gigs to be cancelled by Antifa :laugh:
I'm looking forward to the free promotion they provide.
(https://forum.metalwarfare.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F24%2F24cfb12b3fb39fe8593487b21f7b11740f5917c94f8e7646ab216b63ac174468.jpg&hash=7604a03cc3b862b35b09ac3d445971a33dfbd186)
This Gerard Menuhin bloke is the son of none other than Yehudi Menuhin! His mother wasn't jewish though, which technically means he isn't either. Still, a curious affair that just got a little curiouser.
Let's scrutinize thank you lists for people with questionable opinions/criminal records or all round shady behaviour.
Didn't David Vincent thank Hitler on "Blessed" but without actually mentioning his name? Something like "to a visionary leader whose name I not dare mention" or something like that.
Also is Rob Miller now like the Morrisey of Crust Punk? :laugh:
Was just thinking the same about Vincent. Inspiration for fuck sakes..you can be inspired by anything and not even agree with it. I'm just back from Ireland where it struck me how much of a nanny state the place is becoming..can't buy a beer past 10 o clock on a weeknight in a shop or off licence. Is it the modern agenda to infantilize everyone?
Quote from: Cryptic Stench on July 04, 2019, 10:27:33 AM
Let's scrutinize thank you lists for people with questionable opinions/criminal records or all round shady behaviour.
Actually the first thing I thought of while reading this thread was Crowley on the front cover of Sgt. Pepper's.
Crusties throwing tantrums (and their Amebix records out) on Twitter. Gold.
https://twitter.com/search?q=amebix&src=typd
Quote from: Bigmac on July 04, 2019, 08:31:01 AM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 03, 2019, 11:54:41 PM
The irony of this matter is that it has drawn loads of attention to a writer many people have never previously heard of and will probably cause them to read his book out of curiosity if nothing else. And then, of course, they'll be Nazis ::)
Exactly that. I'd never heard of him before, and I just ordered Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil to see what all the fuss is about.
I'd imagine all the fuss is just about him being pseudo-Jewish and an anti-Semite. I would imagine the book contains no original research, and if you've ever jumped into the holocaust denial rabbit hole for a look, it'll be just more of the same.
On a different note, this news has made me check out Tau Cross, and they sound pretty damn good, unsurprisingly given the members.
Quote from: Weltenfeind on July 04, 2019, 12:24:18 PM
Crusties throwing tantrums (and their Amebix records out) on Twitter. Gold.
https://twitter.com/search?q=amebix&src=typd
"As my fiancé has an Amebix tattoo I regret to inform you that she is now cancelled"Dear lawd.... ;D
Looks like The Baron is sticking to his guns and refusing to bow to ludicrous peer pressure. Total respect. There's at least one real punk left in the world it's good to see!
Quote from: Kurt Cocaine on July 04, 2019, 01:47:33 PM
Quote from: Weltenfeind on July 04, 2019, 12:24:18 PM
Crusties throwing tantrums (and their Amebix records out) on Twitter. Gold.
https://twitter.com/search?q=amebix&src=typd
"As my fiancé has an Amebix tattoo I regret to inform you that she is now cancelled"
Dear lawd.... ;D
I can't imagine that was entirely serious.
Has he made a statement actually Andy?
Edit: Oh wow. Yeah. He's definitely endorsing the book anyway. Reading it again it's a very matter of fact statement but there's definitely an air of the Tin Foil hat about it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-oZQ16WsAAzyzc.png:large)
He's sticking to his guns without actually saying anything he can be nailed to the wall for:
http://dbeatbeater.com/rob-miller-releases-statement-on-thanking-right-wing-holocaust-denier/ (http://dbeatbeater.com/rob-miller-releases-statement-on-thanking-right-wing-holocaust-denier/)
From the description of the book on Goodreads as well, for context:
"The book consists of three sections. The first section concerns Adolf Hitler, his character and intentions, and the real causes leading up to the outbreak of WWII, including the actions of the real culprits and the rejection of the great lie.
The second section enlarges on the activities of the real culprits, provides a historical overview of their progress, their nature, their power over finance and the media, and the methods by which they achieved it. It includes insights into Freemasonry, the European revolutions, the influence and control of education and foreign policy, the creation of the EU, the New World Order and the evolution of the plan through the same powers and their proxies, since the 17th century up to the present.
The third section concerns the First and Second World Wars (what the author refers to as "the Second Thirty Years War"), their conception, funding and inescapable continuity; current laws against freedom of expression, and the evolution of the Orwellian state; the importance of U.S. support for the Soviet Union throughout the Cold War, and Communism's significance in the plan; the true origins of the enemy; Palestine's occupation and its fate as an example of our common fate; plus much more."
I mean I guess we can all figure out who he might be referring to in those highlighted bits
Can't wait for the inevitable Bardo Methodology interview
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on July 04, 2019, 12:34:55 PM
Quote from: Bigmac on July 04, 2019, 08:31:01 AM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 03, 2019, 11:54:41 PM
The irony of this matter is that it has drawn loads of attention to a writer many people have never previously heard of and will probably cause them to read his book out of curiosity if nothing else. And then, of course, they'll be Nazis ::)
Exactly that. I'd never heard of him before, and I just ordered Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil to see what all the fuss is about.
I'd imagine all the fuss is just about him being pseudo-Jewish and an anti-Semite. I would imagine the book contains no original research, and if you've ever jumped into the holocaust denial rabbit hole for a look, it'll be just more of the same.
On a different note, this news has made me check out Tau Cross, and they sound pretty damn good, unsurprisingly given the members.
Yeah quite possibly, I'll find out once it arrives.
I was hoping to be able to nab the Tau Cross cds cheap on the classified pages - no luck yet.
Am I right in thinking he did some sort of ep with At The Gates recently too?Another band I'd not exactly associate with having tolerance for right wing/fash sympathisers. This is just plain odd.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on July 04, 2019, 01:57:07 PM
Edit: Oh wow. Yeah. He's definitely endorsing the book anyway. Reading it again it's a very matter of fact statement but there's definitely an air of the Tin Foil hat about it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-oZQ16WsAAzyzc.png:large)
I mean, again, Noam Chomsky on Robert Faurisson back in the '80s; censorship is the worst response to anything, and is the only reason this is still coming up in 2019. Miller basically just repackages Chomsky's reasoning for not wanting Faurisson censored back in the day. So, to the extent that there's an "air of the tin foil hat" about Chomsky, yeah, I guess you're right.
Just because you can't read about it doesn't mean it isn't a widely held belief in Germany especially among the older types. I have no reason to think anything other than what I've been given by media and history books, and of course we need to be vigilant. It's a tough one, though I don't agree with censoring a musician for simply liking an author.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on July 04, 2019, 03:35:33 PM
Am I right in thinking he did some sort of ep with At The Gates recently too?Another band I'd not exactly associate with having tolerance for right wing/fash sympathisers. This is just plain odd.
He appeared with atg at roadburn this year
So what you're saying is, Roadburn is a Nazi rally and every single band who has ever played the fest are Nazis as well? Interesting.
Wait, are the Nazis the good guys now or the bad guys? I'm confused....?
Quote from: Eoin McLove on July 04, 2019, 10:06:08 PM
So what you're saying is, Roadburn is a Nazi rally and every single band who has ever played the fest are Nazis as well? Interesting.
Yes - boycott everything.
Load of ol' shite.
It's mad, there was worse released 20 years ago and nobody seemed to bat an eyelid. Malevolent Creations Eternal anyone?
Forgot about that, jesus. Didn't one of them wear a KKK T-shirt onstage, too?
There used to be a level of perspective attached when listening to extreme albums that were made by individuals with a tacit agreement that they were sometimes extreme or whacky people themselves. That was all part of the charm and mystery. Now metal reviewers tend to treat being (or realistically just acting) offended as a sport so it's impossible to win an Antifa medal if you decide to review a piece of art for what it actually is- a piece of art- and not a recruitment drive.
Agreed.
Think I said it in a previous thread, extreme music is supposed to be just that, buttons are supposed to be pushed, there should be an element of danger about it. I mean you'd want to be a sad bastard with nothing else to do but find a reason to be offended by some of this stuff. You'd be binning half your collection if you were that way inclined, start by chucking out Abaddon Incarnates last supper .....
Well, now that you mention it, one of the last big blow-outs on MI involved AI almost chucking out parts of their own back catalogue...
I remember that alright. From the perspective of a listener I take a song like Vermithrax within the spirit and context of which it was written , ie by a bunch of young lads full of piss and vinegar,so I wouldn't and don't have any issue listening to it. As a 16 year old I thought the whole album was edgy lyrically speaking.
Yeah, it's also not exactly clear who the narrator is across the songs; a homophobic satanist, of any denomination, being almost a contradiction in terms. It was more that you reminded me of a trend towards "revisionism" and a denial of plural perspectives on existence which has also touched our own scene.
I think that over analysing these things is a bit pointless. Youthful rage is the most likely reason Vermithrax was written and it seems Steve changed his perspective as he aged. It remains a brilliant song and that youthful rage is a huge part of the fuel that drove it. From a listener's point of view I was 17 when it came out and loved the album and that song. I always disagreed with the homophobic sentiment of the lyrics but it neither stopped me from enjoying the song nor turned me into a gay basher. The world tends not to work that way, generally speaking.
Seems Miller is keeping the band going himself. He's fired Away and Lefton, and is encouraging the other two to quit:
"You Kids are in a Prison, one that you created and you maintain. One that you build onto year by year and yet never see. It maintains itself through the characters you represent, both the guards and the snitches, monitoring and judging every detail of your fellow inmates, telling tales and spreading gossip. i cannot be a part of that. No walls, no guard, no wire no yard, we are the perfect Prisoner.
You have created a hierarchy of victimhood, desperately scrambling for status on a ladder of the imaginary oppressed, nice kids from nice homes still trying to fight against evil mummy and daddy, the people who gave you everything, and who you turned your backs on. You live vicariously through a compromised media,themselves terrified of uttering an inappropriate phrase or idea, furiously signalling their own virtues through self censorship and speech regulation.
Your movies sell you the same stories, with an increasingly complex mixing of archetypes, until there are no real stories of any value left, and still you consume.
The worst thing is that you see yourselves as rebels of some kind, anti system warriors against the vague "Patriarchy". You ARE the system, you are the useful idiots that keep the cogs turning, you are the Prison guards, glued to your screens on the Worldwide Panopticon. You are the Beast i despise, and the whole reason i have spent my life seeking answers, immersing myself in the forbidden, the occult, the Taboo, the places where there are still clues to how we got here, and how we can get back out.
You People set the dogs on me, you threw me under that bus without a moments hesitation, and that shows your true nature, the imaginary friends of the Internet, the curtain twitchers and tittle tattlers,the town hall gossips and Intenational knitting circle. You are not people i would want on my side in any kind of struggle.
To the very few men and women who have reached out on their own initiative, i salute you, we are Brothers and Sisters, a crazy family who may disagree fundamentally with what one another has to say, or the opinions we hold, but we will fiercely defend their right to do so. and that is the difference between the Prisoner and the Free man, the winnowing and separation of the wheat from the chaff, some of you passed the test and many did not.
I have made a decision about Tau Cross. It is a band that i created and nurtured on my own for one and a half years, in the bitter disappointments of the Amebix break up, i wrote all the original material and retain the band as my own intellectual property,nto do with as i wish.
I am releasing Michel Langevin from Tau Cross, he should not be associated with this band in any manner in future, apart from the material that he has contributed, which has always been remarkable, and i have thought of him as a dear friend. however, the association with this Stigma is something people must choose or lose.
Andy Lefton is released with immediate effect, he has managed to embody the twin roles of Victim and Judas on far more occasions now than were strictly necessary, and we share nothing in common anymore, philosophically or ethically.
The remaining members will probably leave of their own accord and are encouraged to do so should they feel pressured, but there is a welcome place her for anyone brave enough to stay.
i will continue this band, even if it becomes a sad one man and a dog cassette making venture, it has never been about fame or money, it is about the journey for truth, the places that takes us and the need to remain true to ourselves. i feel this episode has demonstrated something of primary importance, and these words from the song are both prophetic and illuminating.
So you seek the truth, embrace her while you may
walk into the Fire, you and i shall never die
we become the Flame, Burn with Me.
Rob Miller– Tau Cross– July 2019″
A powerful statement, fair play to him. Menuhin's ultimate theories are absurd at best, but I admit myself a feeling of spiritual liberation the first time I started thinking about what it could imply that the account of WWII we have was essentially written by the US, the USSR, and Great Britain; three states who have never given anyone any reason other than to mistrust them. Perhaps Miller had that moment while reading Menuhin and that's it. And perhaps he really subscribes to his conclusions, but in both cases censorship is not the way to go. Personally I don't feel like thanking the makers of the six hour pro-Nazi documentary I saw many years ago, because the absurd outweighed the pause for reflection it gave me.
But yeah, I can't find much to flaw in that statement there, given the world we live in today.
Absolutely. It's refreshing yet sadly rare to see a musician these days who has the neck to say no to this ludicrous self devouring beast that the media has become. It's not about agreeing with his point of view, it's simply about allowing him to have one. Complete respect.