Stumbled across this gem the other day and it was amazing the coincidence that they sorted the guitar sound just in time which slotted in perfectly with the song before the vocals kicked in for this legendary gig.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICBVzTRsVSo&start_radio=1&list=RDICBVzTRsVSo
was lucky enough to catch them on this tour. when they released the Rebirth of dissection DVD it was one of the only music dvds I watched for years.
Havent watched it in ages must throw it on!
Same,I managed to get to their first gig since Jon's release in 2004 and also at Hellfest in 2005, Unreal band.
Saw them in Dublin that time they came. Notveidt was incredible musically, vocally, strage presence-wise, far ahead of the other 3 lads. He had the kind of quality that you would see in the likes of Hetfield, dominating every aspect of the performance, which is not a common thing.
It was a great gig but I think I'd have loved to have seen them at their peak. The drummer was a bit too tippy tappy for my liking, drum mics lashed up thru the roof and tapping away. I have no idea what the original drummer looked like or played like live but I would have loved to have seen the drums pounded into the ground. The older drummer seems decent enough in this video, though again, the lads hardly exude much, Notdveidt again just sheer class:
https://youtu.be/otrzYM9ldRA
Funny how close to At the Gates that tune sounds to me now. Very similar notes and tones to stuff off of Terminal Spirit Disease for example. An awful waste of a huge, massive talent. I lived on those first 2 albums for years, some of the greatest metal ever put to tape. Again, what a bloody waste. He was phenomenal in Dublin that time, the energy coming off the stage from him was electric.
Fek
Ole Ohman played on the earlier albums.I actually liked Tobias's drumming also on the 1997 on the Gods of darkness tour. The new drummer still did ok on the rebirth gigs though.
Agreed,a huge loss to the scene,his guitar playing as well as vocals on the albums and live were always class.Hard to believe he's gone 12 years.
Yeah. Except then you remember hes a murderer. So fine as his music was, fuck him.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on January 29, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
Yeah. Except then you remember hes a murderer. So fine as his music was, fuck him.
agreed.
they were playing at wacken one year i was there and i just couldnt have been fucked watching them because of that. really tainted what he did musically.
same with that other scumbag faust i think his name is. drummer from emperor. i remember seeing people i know getting photos taken with him at some gig and i everyone was commenting on it saying how class it must have been to meet him. eejits.
Quote from: Pentagrimes on January 29, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
Yeah. Except then you remember hes a murderer. So fine as his music was, fuck him.
Yeah....funny this came into my mind recently for some reason. I saw them at that gig in the Village, thought they were immense and would consider it one of my all time fav gigs. Would I go now though? Not sure.
Similar thoughts re seeing Swans live again. I know nothing was proved re the rape claim but reading Gira's statement on it does not put him in a flattering light. And yet live they are untouchable.
One of my all time favourite gigs that one,incredible.
It's a fair response. Everyone has to make up their own mind on it and there's no point trying to justify it. I personally just loved those first 2 albums and I never really paid much attention to a lot of the drama and nonsense of the band or of black metal. It was fascinating but it didn't attract me across the board. The core bands were amazing, and then there was loads of hanger on stuff that went with it. Lots of ego feeding, sycophants, the whole shebang I'm sure. In a genre that put so much emphasis on the darm, the arcane, the mystical.and hidden, it's no wonder it all started to warp.
As far as Nodtveidt, it was obvious he was not your regular sultan of swing at the gig. I don't know if drugs were playing a part but the eyes were swimming in his head. It made for a very intense experience overall. So when people talk about paying the bills or making Dawson's Creek style movies in relation to these guys, it doesn't add up. All the violence, the malevolence, the darkness, it obviously meant a lot to Nodtveidt. It's definitely not the way I would choose to live or view life..very dark and cold. One would wonder what was the source of all of it. Stuart Anstis made an interesting point one time about Aspergers I think it was, that he had it and how he was convinced Nodtveidt had it, the aloofness, the inability to empathy..who knows, I certainly don't anyway but it could explain things. The albums were class, the atmosphere on them is untouchable, especially Storm. I wluldn't be able to justify anything outside of that, other than on a purely musical level, I needed to see them live.
It's interesting though..I never really got Emperor, god knows I tried, and I always found that Faust guy a scumbag, horrible bastard. Vicious thugs an awful lot of these lads. Hard to marry it up though when you actually really love an album..an odd one indeed.
No chance i was missing that gig,im not some kind of JN fan boy,what he did was despicable,couldnt give two fucks about him,but fuck it, i wasnt letting that get in the way of me seeing them live..
Just to clarify in case anyone thinks I'm having a go: I like Dissection's music and I firmly believe it's up to everyone to draw their own line between art and artist.
I always find it particularly intriguing that the above Wacken performance took place only two weeks or so after the Keillers Park incident.
Brings a whole different kind of intensity to the performance.
Quote from: Pedrito on January 29, 2019, 09:31:12 PM
One would wonder what was the source of all of it. Stuart Anstis made an interesting point one time about Aspergers I think it was, that he had it and how he was convinced Nodtveidt had it, the aloofness, the inability to empathy..who knows, I certainly don't anyway but it could explain things.
Yeah i heard the aspergers thing, worth noting too that he was a member of "the Werewolf Legion" (he had the tattoo on his shoulder) which are a criminal organization based in Stockholm. . They are involved in robbery and extortion, few articles online have mentioned he was protected by gang members after the murder also the other guy that carried out the murder had strong links with the head of the gang. Sounds like a complete scumbag but what a musician!
Didn't know that but very interesting. Surprising how such a talented guy could get involved in that but it hints at some deep underlying weakness of character. I used spend lots of time in Austria and every little town had some skinhead scumbag faction bar emblazoned with werewolves or pitbulls..real low life types inhabiting them. The ultra football types in Spain where I live are no better. All just fronts for acting like a knacker. No different back home I'm sure, though we don't seem to go in for the werewolf/pitbull iconography, maybe certain Celtic/Rangers style stuff. The whole thing is paradoxical to me because the music could be so beautiful, but he was obviously not your average punter, god knows what was goinv on inside his head.
Reading the Blood Fire Death book at the moment and the chapter on Jon describes him as quite a regular guy up until the point were he gets involved with that Vlad lad and the MLO/Werewolf legion. Seems more likely to me that his lifestyle and the misanthropic philosophy he espoused played a large part in his behaviour as opposed to Aspergers or whatever.
Anyway Dissection were outstanding with an almost flawless discography. Gig here is probably in my top ten, pretty sure i still have a Watain tshirt from it somewhere.
The Werewolf Legion did security at the Rebirth show.
You can see a few of them here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST__Wu9dhsY
awh :-* if he only hadn't of grown up and became a Murderous thug :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPH6RdyGRQk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPH6RdyGRQk)
Slightly off topic, im sure some of you know Cardinal Sin, if not it was a project composed by John Zwetsloot, who helped write a lot of the somberlian songs also "Night's Blood and "Retribution ".
Excellent EP and very like Dissection. Never released anything after this as far as I know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg)
Quote from: Pedrito on January 30, 2019, 12:27:33 PM
Didn't know that but very interesting. Surprising how such a talented guy could get involved in that but it hints at some deep underlying weakness of character. I used spend lots of time in Austria and every little town had some skinhead scumbag faction bar emblazoned with werewolves or pitbulls..real low life types inhabiting them. The ultra football types in Spain where I live are no better. All just fronts for acting like a knacker. No different back home I'm sure, though we don't seem to go in for the werewolf/pitbull iconography, maybe certain Celtic/Rangers style stuff. The whole thing is paradoxical to me because the music could be so beautiful, but he was obviously not your average punter, god knows what was goinv on inside his head.
I'll sound like a cunt here without actually meaning to, but whatever..have you a background in psychology or sciology? I've noticed a couple of your posts on here seem based around trying to work out why people (particularly in Black Metal) do what they do.
Haha good question. I work in education and I studied a lot of ideas around beahviour and psychology doing a masters in Education, so it always pops up, but my waffling on a metal forum should be taken only as that..pinch of salt etc. I suppose what I never got about black metal was that it took something we all love, namely metal, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead and 'corrupted' it. It became less about having a good time, expressing yourself, getting lost in music and music being an escape and became something far more serious, life and death as such.
I'm looking for a why to that I suppose, when there probably is no real 'why'. But then I look at where it came out of, Norway especially, all in one generation, lads killing eachother, church burnings, criminality all mixed in with this new form of music, lads literally taking this shit way too seriously, lack of any sense of humour and irony and the amateur detective in me wonders why. When Lemmy and Venom and all these bands were singing about Raising Hell, the English speaking world took it as a bit of craic..few pints, headbanging, getting the shift, but up in Scandanavia they're all sitting around listening to it like it's gospel. It's cultish thinking. Blah blah, I just think about shit like that, best to ignore me :laugh:
I think that a couple of factors come into it. It was pre- internet. Everyone is now connected through social media or forums, demystifying the culture almost entirely. Back then you had occasional interview with bands that were mostly in zines with occasional glances into it from there mainstream media who fanned the flames with sensational articles. That's all very flattering to the cause. Young lads trying to keep up had no way to see these lads as projecting a certain exaggerated persona and were at a callow age anyway. Add a couple of charismatic leaders like Euronymous and Varg, who were sculpting this new scene and spouting very dark and hateful rhetoric. Taken in conjunction with the music it's really cool and effective at creating a larger world around the scene. Many, or most, of the crimes of the era were arson- burning churches that were built of timber, in more remote parts of town (I am basing this on my trip to Fantoft so correct me if I'm mistaken) while the churches were empty. Now, it takes a certain amount of balls/ stupidity to go from wearing a t-shirt with a slogan that will annoy your community to burning down a building. But it's a low enough risk crime that they would all have escaped convictions for if they didn't go on to boast about the acts. But how then do you build the myth or cult? Catch 22. The number of murderers was quite low overall, Euro's death (and Dead's suicide including the antics around that) and Faust's killing the guy in the park, Nodtveit's kill and subsequent suicide and the guys from Absurd killing a peer. That's about it. I think it was a small number of influential psychopaths in a scene full of impressionable kids.
As a massive fan of black metal it's interesting to note that despite being able to rationalise it to a degree, I am still able to allow the surrounding drama to add to the listening experience. You have to be able to look at it both ways, I think.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 30, 2019, 03:36:34 PM
As a massive fan of black metal it's interesting to note that despite being able to rationalise it to a degree, I am still able to allow the surrounding drama to add to the listening experience. You have to be able to look at it both ways, I think.
i dont really see how murdering innocent people and just being pure scumbags adds to music tbh
Quote from: blessed1 on January 30, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 30, 2019, 03:36:34 PM
As a massive fan of black metal it's interesting to note that despite being able to rationalise it to a degree, I am still able to allow the surrounding drama to add to the listening experience. You have to be able to look at it both ways, I think.
i dont really see how murdering innocent people and just being pure scumbags adds to music tbh
I'm gonna guess because if you're singing about being evil and then doing evil horrible shit, it adds a layer of horrible authenticity to it?
EoinMc: Think you hut the nail on the head there with the 'despite' sentence. Dissection were an amazing band and that added air of malevolence, while against everything I believe in, still adds something. It's an uncomfortable thought in many ways, and maybe I would need the degree in psychology to understand it. If it was something related to kids, I would have been picketing the gig, but how young he was when the killing happened, I rationalised he had done the time, moved on, and paid the price etc etc.
If that's true or not, who knows, but it's intetesting how a 'blind eye'can be turned when it comes to stuff you're somewhat emotionally involved in, like music. A totally exagerrated comparison, but the continued devotion to Michael Jackson, even when everything points to him having been a sick predator, by perfectly reasonable people, would lead me to guess that it's something people tend to do.
Quote from: Pedrito on January 30, 2019, 03:58:53 PM
I rationalised he had done the time, moved on, and paid the price etc etc.
he didnt though. he came across as completely unremorseful in any of the interviews i read with him when he was released.
and ya maybe this adds mystery to it when your like 13 or 14 yrs old not a bloody grown man.
As Jamie said, they claimed to be evil, their music was dark and praised evil and their actions backed it up. I don't live my life that way or think that arson and murder is really cool, but these acts in a way have become removed from reality and set into mythology. For people who fundamentally think the music is shit then of course it's just dickheads playing dungeons and dragons and committing despicable acts. If you are interested in the phenomenon and love the music then the two go hand in hand. I'm neither defending what happened nor trying to convince anyone to agree with my view of the thing, but that's how it looks to me.
Blessed1: Fair nuf man, I said I rationalised it, and I'm actually agreeing with you that it doesn't make sense. Call it willful blindness or something like that. All that said, I hardly listen to BM outside of Dissection, Enslaved, Dawn and a few other bits and bobs, but I get why people do.
My response was directed at Blessed 1.
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 30, 2019, 04:13:45 PM
As Jamie said, they claimed to be evil, their music was dark and praised evil and their actions backed it up. I don't live my life that way or think that arson and murder is really cool, but these acts in a way have become removed from reality and set into mythology. For people who fundamentally think the music is shit then of course it's just dickheads playing dungeons and dragons and committing despicable acts. If you are interested in the phenomenon and love the music then the two go hand in hand. I'm neither defending what happened nor trying to convince anyone to agree with my view of the thing, but that's how it looks to me.
thats cool just sounded like you were kinda glorifying it for some reason.
everytime theres a thread on dissection it always descends into this.
i always try not to get sucked in but here i am going on like a moany old cunt haha
Quote from: Eoin McLove on January 30, 2019, 04:16:52 PM
My response was directed at Blessed 1.
Mine too :laugh:
And to Blessed1, I wouldn't glorify any of that shit. I think there was an element of circus to Dissection when they came back. The album was woeful, and it felt kind of like a relic from a lost age had been uncovered and the chance to see them live was almost too good to miss due to how amazing they had been. Even at the gig I remember thinking to myself that the lad on stage has just come out of jail for killing someone and it was a strange feeling. Anyway, the oul gun to the head levelled all that up..maybe there was remorse there, maybe not, we'll never know.
I reckon the only way to solve this as gentlemen is to meet behind the bike sheds after school and all stab each other in the head. Last man standing gets to make necklaces from the other's skull fragments, burn a stave church to the ground and commit ritual suicide.
I'll take a Varg cudgel and a spiky codpiece
This is black metal. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with it. Apparently.
There goes my element of surprise.
Quote from: Cernunnos on January 30, 2019, 01:00:41 PM
Slightly off topic, im sure some of you know Cardinal Sin, if not it was a project composed by John Zwetsloot, who helped write a lot of the somberlian songs also "Night's Blood and "Retribution ".
Excellent EP and very like Dissection. Never released anything after this as far as I know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg)
Yeap I heard of them.I think that guy Zwetsloot only wrote some of the tracks on the Somberlain, There was another guitarist for Storm album as he played on the gods of darkness tour and also did a side project band Soul Reaper which are also worth checking out.
Quote from: Pedrito on January 29, 2019, 09:31:12 PM
It's a fair response. Everyone has to make up their own mind on it and there's no point trying to justify it. I personally just loved those first 2 albums and I never really paid much attention to a lot of the drama and nonsense of the band or of black metal. It was fascinating but it didn't attract me across the board. The core bands were amazing, and then there was loads of hanger on stuff that went with it. Lots of ego feeding, sycophants, the whole shebang I'm sure. In a genre that put so much emphasis on the darm, the arcane, the mystical.and hidden, it's no wonder it all started to warp.
As far as Nodtveidt, it was obvious he was not your regular sultan of swing at the gig. I don't know if drugs were playing a part but the eyes were swimming in his head. It made for a very intense experience overall. So when people talk about paying the bills or making Dawson's Creek style movies in relation to these guys, it doesn't add up. All the violence, the malevolence, the darkness, it obviously meant a lot to Nodtveidt. It's definitely not the way I would choose to live or view life..very dark and cold. One would wonder what was the source of all of it. Stuart Anstis made an interesting point one time about Aspergers I think it was, that he had it and how he was convinced Nodtveidt had it, the aloofness, the inability to empathy..who knows, I certainly don't anyway but it could explain things. The albums were class, the atmosphere on them is untouchable, especially Storm. I wluldn't be able to justify anything outside of that, other than on a purely musical level, I needed to see them live.
It's interesting though..I never really got Emperor, god knows I tried, and I always found that Faust guy a scumbag, horrible bastard. Vicious thugs an awful lot of these lads. Hard to marry it up though when you actually really love an album..an odd one indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLwsw0SJNs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLwsw0SJNs)
Speaking of mad eyes why don't you do a bit of translating for us there ba ;)
Quote from: Blizzard Beast on January 30, 2019, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Cernunnos on January 30, 2019, 01:00:41 PM
Slightly off topic, im sure some of you know Cardinal Sin, if not it was a project composed by John Zwetsloot, who helped write a lot of the somberlian songs also "Night's Blood and "Retribution ".
Excellent EP and very like Dissection. Never released anything after this as far as I know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg)
Yeap I heard of them.I think that guy Zwetsloot only wrote some of the tracks on the Somberlain, There was another guitarist for Storm album as he played on the gods of darkness tour and also did a side project band Soul Reaper which are also worth checking out.
Just checking out soul reapers written in blood album....pretty straight out death metal, sounds good so far.
Quote from: Cernunnos on January 30, 2019, 09:14:12 PM
Quote from: Blizzard Beast on January 30, 2019, 07:51:11 PM
Quote from: Cernunnos on January 30, 2019, 01:00:41 PM
Slightly off topic, im sure some of you know Cardinal Sin, if not it was a project composed by John Zwetsloot, who helped write a lot of the somberlian songs also "Night's Blood and "Retribution ".
Excellent EP and very like Dissection. Never released anything after this as far as I know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv_b3UCK5Sg)
Yeap I heard of them.I think that guy Zwetsloot only wrote some of the tracks on the Somberlain, There was another guitarist for Storm album as he played on the gods of darkness tour and also did a side project band Soul Reaper which are also worth checking out.
Just checking out soul reapers written in blood album....pretty straight out death metal, sounds good so far.
Another dissection related band that Jon was in is "The Black" he did vocals, guitar and keyboards on the album the priest of Satan. Great album imo.
+1 for The Black" The priest of Satan" . Great record.
Quote from: Blizzard Beast on January 30, 2019, 07:57:01 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on January 29, 2019, 09:31:12 PM
It's a fair response. Everyone has to make up their own mind on it and there's no point trying to justify it. I personally just loved those first 2 albums and I never really paid much attention to a lot of the drama and nonsense of the band or of black metal. It was fascinating but it didn't attract me across the board. The core bands were amazing, and then there was loads of hanger on stuff that went with it. Lots of ego feeding, sycophants, the whole shebang I'm sure. In a genre that put so much emphasis on the darm, the arcane, the mystical.and hidden, it's no wonder it all started to warp.
As far as Nodtveidt, it was obvious he was not your regular sultan of swing at the gig. I don't know if drugs were playing a part but the eyes were swimming in his head. It made for a very intense experience overall. So when people talk about paying the bills or making Dawson's Creek style movies in relation to these guys, it doesn't add up. All the violence, the malevolence, the darkness, it obviously meant a lot to Nodtveidt. It's definitely not the way I would choose to live or view life..very dark and cold. One would wonder what was the source of all of it. Stuart Anstis made an interesting point one time about Aspergers I think it was, that he had it and how he was convinced Nodtveidt had it, the aloofness, the inability to empathy..who knows, I certainly don't anyway but it could explain things. The albums were class, the atmosphere on them is untouchable, especially Storm. I wluldn't be able to justify anything outside of that, other than on a purely musical level, I needed to see them live.
It's interesting though..I never really got Emperor, god knows I tried, and I always found that Faust guy a scumbag, horrible bastard. Vicious thugs an awful lot of these lads. Hard to marry it up though when you actually really love an album..an odd one indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLwsw0SJNs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLwsw0SJNs)
Speaking of mad eyes why don't you do a bit of translating for us there ba ;)
He introduces himself and salutes the Diabolic Order and some other Muggle haters..
Just finished the Blood fire death book, the last interview he gave he came across as totally cold .
Completely brainwashed into whatever he believed. Absolutely no remorse on the killing and even loved chaos as in relating to the 9/11 attacks, to be honest i say good riddance sounded like a total scumbag, with no sense of reality