Metal Warfare - Irish Metal Forum

Metal Discussion => Metal Discussion => Topic started by: Juggz on September 29, 2020, 11:54:22 AM

Title: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on September 29, 2020, 11:54:22 AM
Burton Bell has left Fear Factory, or what was left of it. He's not really holding back here. Lots of patreon refund requests coming Dino's way? He has been just a little dishonest recently  :laugh:

QuoteI consider myself a private person, preferring to keep my personal business to myself and trusted loved ones. I make my public statements with thoughtful intent, never deviating from the truth, in spite of the consistent series of dishonest representations and unfounded accusations from past and present band members; a toxic drama I choose to not be part of.

The past several years have been profoundly agonizing, with these members bleeding my passion with depraved deceit. As a direct consequence of their greed, these three have dragged me through the unjust, judicial system, resulting in the legal attrition that has financially crippled me. In the end, these three members have taken possession of my principal livelihood. However, they will never take my 30-year legacy as the beating heart of the machine. A legacy that no other member, past or present, can ever claim.

So, it is after considerable, contemplative soul searching that I have come to the realization that I cannot align myself with someone whom I do not trust, nor respect. Therefore, I am announcing to my fans my departure from Fear Factory, to focus all my energy and attention toward the continuing success for Ascension Of The Watchers, and all my future endeavors.

I am very proud of the Ascension Of The Watchers' latest album, Apocrypha. The writing and recording process for Apocrypha has been a truly cathartic and artistic journey of exploration and growth for me. Reigniting my passions for my writing, allowing my music to flourish, enabling my soul to soar, saving me from the real hell that engulfed a significant part of my daily life. Collaborating with talented, kindred spirits has truly created an inspirational environment of support and mutual respect, a spirit I have missed for a very long time.

I would like to thank all of my fans for their continued support throughout my career. I am very proud of my achievements, but, it is time for me to move forward. Now I look to the future with open eyes, open mind and open heart, as my artistic path strives for even greater success in music, writing and my art. It's true, "the end is always the beginning". The soul is free from the machine.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 12:06:08 PM
Bravo on the thread title :laugh:
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Trev on September 29, 2020, 12:19:38 PM
The lot of them have been at each other for the best part of twenty years now, I'm amazed it even lasted so long.

I can still see Dino getting a new singer to try and milk the name for another few years though
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on September 29, 2020, 12:32:14 PM
Could see this coming, what wih him publicly distancing himself from Cazares' begging bowl. Whatever you think of the band, his voice was so distinctive that he'd be irreplacable, really. I'd hoped to see the 'classic' line-up reform, or at least the Archetype version, and put out another decent one but that's that for the 'band' now, I fear.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: ochoill on September 29, 2020, 01:41:06 PM
From what I can tell it's pretty much originally Wolbers' fault it got this bad in the first place but yeah the whole thing seems to have soured the band.  Have a scroll through Cazares' twitter for some more on it, as sketchy as he's generally made out to be he's pretty open on it all.

Edit: taking my own advice I went looking for recent court documents - can't find the latest ones but looking over last years' and some other stuff from the bands other iterations throughout the last two decades, the whole thing is an absolute mess but a bizarre and interesting read.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on September 29, 2020, 02:06:24 PM
Scratching the surface, it appears there was far more going on prior to the current shitshow.

https://www.metalsucks.net/2019/10/03/fear-factory-lawsuit-details-revealed/
https://www.theprp.com/2019/10/03/news/fear-factorys-long-history-of-internal-lawsuits-revealed/

Can anyone find the court documents from the most recent proceedings? I'd say it would be quite interesting, especially since Dino seems to own the brand name now.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: ochoill on September 29, 2020, 02:20:30 PM
Quote from: Juggz on September 29, 2020, 02:06:24 PM
Scratching the surface, it appears there was far more going on prior to the current shitshow.

https://www.metalsucks.net/2019/10/03/fear-factory-lawsuit-details-revealed/
https://www.theprp.com/2019/10/03/news/fear-factorys-long-history-of-internal-lawsuits-revealed/

Can anyone find the court documents from the most recent proceedings? I'd say it would be quite interesting, especially since Dino seems to own the brand name now.

I can't find them unfortunately but they will likely crop up now that the story is out.  From what I gather, long and short over it, Bell going bankrupt and Herrera & Wolbers suing him for not paying royalites for use of the FF name roundabout caused Cazares to end up with the rights for it - likely Bell lost any claim he had due to the bankruptcy case and what happened after, so Cazares launched his own proceedings for the full rights.  If you go back further there were court cases after transgression too when Wolbers & Herrera wanted to keep using the name after leaving the band, and just before Bell & Cazares got back together for Mechanize.  And in every case, unfortunately, even as far back as post-digimortal, they all just tear strips of Cazares every chance they get in interviews but it is primarily the two lads (the same lads who have sued everyone every step of the way).  None of them are right here, but Wolbers & Herrera have fired up almost every one of these cases.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Trev on September 29, 2020, 02:30:16 PM
I'd say it's nearly always been Burton at the centre of everything. He quit just after Digimortal, then got back with Wolbers and Herrera, then left that version to join up with Dino again, which caused the original lawsuit from the two lads, and now he's quit a third time

I found all their bands outside of FF pretty shite and don't think any were at all successful, they'll probably go for the reunion cash with a 30th anniversary Demanufacture tour in 2025
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on September 29, 2020, 03:26:03 PM
The Ascension of the Watchers album a few years ago was pretty shit. The last half decent thing out of FF was Mechanize and that was mostly down to Hoglan and Stroud, so no loss to anyone anywhere really.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: vinterland on September 30, 2020, 09:00:49 AM
+1. One band along with Machine Head I could never understand the fascination about. One of the many reasons I tired of Metal Hammer in the mid to late 90s.
Quote from: Ducky on September 29, 2020, 12:06:08 PM
Bravo on the thread title :laugh:
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Paul keohane on September 30, 2020, 09:13:21 AM
Loved the first two albums,but had zero interest after that.Once them and Machine Head went down the tracksuit wearing nu metal road it was game over for me.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on September 30, 2020, 11:42:45 AM
They were part of the wave of shite which pushed me away from metal in the 90's but it's an intriguing story. It'll be interesting to see if he allows his performances to be released by what is now exclusively a Dino vehicle.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: ochoill on September 30, 2020, 12:11:27 PM
SOANM was a very formative metal album for me and I loved them for years in my teens because of Demanufacture and Obsolete, but the rest is quite bad, bar Mechanise, as much time as I gave others on release there's no hope they'd get to the CD player today.  I've no faith in them coming out with a good album in any formation of the band now but the whole story is interesting and not exactly as one sided as it was painted for decades.

Now on the other hand there was a twitter post where Cazares said he was willing to audition new vocalists over zoom and fans can vote on their favourite, just a shocking idea, turning the shell of FF into a sort of x-factor-esque audition is hilarious and awful at the same time.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 30, 2020, 12:19:33 PM
A cross between X-Factor, Fear Factor, and Fun Factory!
Let's get this hashtag going so Dino sees it
#FunFearXFactorY
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on September 30, 2020, 12:21:25 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/Z-tfYUJLnxOq1hvQVQAieW_6bC4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-746503-1154606781.jpeg.jpg)
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 30, 2020, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Juggz on September 30, 2020, 12:21:25 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/Z-tfYUJLnxOq1hvQVQAieW_6bC4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-746503-1154606781.jpeg.jpg)

I read that sash as Slavery y Sangria at first  :laugh:

Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on September 30, 2020, 01:01:46 PM
 :laugh: Controversial
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Nazgûl on September 30, 2020, 01:48:44 PM
Quote from: Black Shepherd Carnage on September 30, 2020, 12:23:13 PM
Quote from: Juggz on September 30, 2020, 12:21:25 PM
(https://img.discogs.com/Z-tfYUJLnxOq1hvQVQAieW_6bC4=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-746503-1154606781.jpeg.jpg)

I read that sash as Slavery y Sangria at first  :laugh:

:laugh:
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: ochoill on September 30, 2020, 02:14:12 PM
 :laugh: unreal
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Don Gately on September 30, 2020, 08:16:04 PM
The first 2 albums were good, I liked them a lot then, all a bit sad now
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Kunt 4 Life on October 01, 2020, 09:44:41 AM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

Could we end up with a situation with more than one fear factory like we have with Saxon?
If they get a new singer and release an album, will there be two different fear factory albums with 2 completely different line ups?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on October 01, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on October 01, 2020, 09:44:41 AM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

Could we end up with a situation with more than one fear factory like we have with Saxon?
If they get a new singer and release an album, will there be two different fear factory albums with 2 completely different line ups?

The lawsuit was probably to prevent that from happening. It's possible though. Bell could go back to Herrera and Wolbers and Dino could get a new line up. They're all washed up and desperate enough for it to happen.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Emphyrio on October 01, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Glad I caught the Demanufacture reunion when it rolled around.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on October 01, 2020, 12:27:05 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on October 01, 2020, 11:41:56 AM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on October 01, 2020, 09:44:41 AM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

Could we end up with a situation with more than one fear factory like we have with Saxon?
If they get a new singer and release an album, will there be two different fear factory albums with 2 completely different line ups?

The lawsuit was probably to prevent that from happening. It's possible though. Bell could go back to Herrera and Wolbers and Dino could get a new line up. They're all washed up and desperate enough for it to happen.
There were several lawsuits but it looks like Burton is possibly bankrupt again and was forced to sell his ownership of the name.

Cazares says:

Quote"I don't really want to get into what it says, really, because a lot of it's just a lot of nonsense. He doesn't—what I noticed—is that he doesn't take responsibility for all the legal actions went down. As you know, most people know that we were in a legal battle for the last three plus years trying to sort out this Fear Factory name situation.

    And him and I were sued separately in separate courts... Not jointly, separately. [They were filed by] the other two ex-members [Raymond Hererra & Christian Olde Wolbers], which led to me and Burton going bankrupt in separate counties, separate states. I live in California, he's out there in Pennsylvania.

    And so... for anybody who decides to lie in the court of law when you're under oath, not a good idea. That's all I can say. I ended up... the name came available. Burton's trademark ownership became available so I ended up purchasing [it]. I don't want to get into the gory details. I don't want to have to throw anybody under the bus.

    But if anybody wants to see the truth, they can go and Google the paperwork, Google our names and you'll find it. It's all there, it's all black & white and you can see what happened and how it all transpired."
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Ducky on October 01, 2020, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

It's funny that you say that because Paolo Jr. didn't actually play bass on any Sep records until Chaos AD, Kisser was the one who did.

Kisser has as much right to Seps' name as the Cavaleras.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on October 01, 2020, 03:53:52 PM
Quote from: Ducky on October 01, 2020, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

It's funny that you say that because Paolo Jr. didn't actually play bass on any Sep records until Chaos AD, Kisser was the one who did.

Kisser has as much right to Seps' name as the Cavaleras.

That's old news about Paulo's bass tracks but Andreas didn't join until the second album. I'm not undervaluing his musical contribution to the band, and there is a good chance that they would have never made it beyond being a South American novelty if he didn't join, but as an intellectual property and as a brand name the Cavaleras should have it. They started the band and named it.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on October 01, 2020, 04:16:15 PM
They both also left it, voluntarily.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Blitzer666 on October 01, 2020, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: Kunt 4 Life on October 01, 2020, 09:44:41 AM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

Could we end up with a situation with more than one fear factory like we have with Saxon?
If they get a new singer and release an album, will there be two different fear factory albums with 2 completely different line ups?

L.a guns is really confusing too....
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Don Gately on October 01, 2020, 05:15:15 PM
I think Paulo should have it because he gave me a can of Budweiser outside the SFX
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Ducky on October 01, 2020, 11:17:44 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on October 01, 2020, 03:53:52 PM
Quote from: Ducky on October 01, 2020, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on September 30, 2020, 04:34:19 PM
At a stretch you could maybe say that Raymond Herrera has the right to claim at least part ownership of the name but how Christian Olde Wolbers can is beyond me. He didn't even join until the second album and Dino allegedly played the majority of bass on that album anyway.

He must have the same legal team as Andreas Kisser.

It's funny that you say that because Paolo Jr. didn't actually play bass on any Sep records until Chaos AD, Kisser was the one who did.

Kisser has as much right to Seps' name as the Cavaleras.

That's old news about Paulo's bass tracks but Andreas didn't join until the second album. I'm not undervaluing his musical contribution to the band, and there is a good chance that they would have never made it beyond being a South American novelty if he didn't join, but as an intellectual property and as a brand name the Cavaleras should have it. They started the band and named it.

Subjective opinion here, but their first album is absolute tripe, borderline unlistenable, even. For me, no Kisser = no Sep and as Juggz says, the Cavaleras both voluntarily walked away from the band, so tough tiddys to them.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on October 02, 2020, 12:23:01 AM
Yeah but by that logic, if Andreas and Paulo were to walk away then Derrick Green would have a legitimate right to keep releasing music under the Sepultura name. An absurd idea I know but that's where that reasoning leads.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on October 02, 2020, 07:32:40 AM
Napalm Death seem to be doing ok, no?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on October 02, 2020, 09:01:30 AM
Bell was there from the start, he'd have as much right to the name as Cazares or Herrera, surely.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Juggz on October 02, 2020, 09:10:10 AM
He did, but he had to sell his right to it and Cazares bought it.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Wiseblood on October 02, 2020, 09:25:27 AM
People here seem to miss that lads like Bell and Dave Lombardo would have agreed to their terms and conditions and people like Max Cavalera made the decision to step away. For whatever reason they ended up losing or selling their rights but thats just business.
And similarly people like Olde Wolbers and Kisser had stakes in their bands by agreement with all parties at the time. Being in a band since day one doesn't afford you some supreme ownership rights. These are businesses! Do any of ye work for a company where the odd time the old plant manager swans in for a crack at the whip again? Didn't think so.

In the Fear Factory case, Herrera and Olde Wolbers sued because the contract arrangement they were in (also agreed with Bell and possibly Cazares) was breached and had every right to fight for it.

Remember when Dave Lombardo took to social media to cry about his salary.... the salary outlined in the contract he signed? He should have negotiated better when he was coming back.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on October 02, 2020, 09:36:57 AM
Quote from: Juggz on October 02, 2020, 09:10:10 AM
He did, but he had to sell his right to it and Cazares bought it.

Yeah, I knew that. Just speaking generally, before legal proceedings kicked in.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Ducky on October 02, 2020, 01:01:36 PM
Quote from: Anton Arcane on October 02, 2020, 12:23:01 AM
Yeah but by that logic, if Andreas and Paulo were to walk away then Derrick Green would have a legitimate right to keep releasing music under the Sepultura name. An absurd idea I know but that's where that reasoning leads.

Well he's been the front man of the band for almost a quarter of a century (far longer than Max has), so while I probably wouldn't be interested in it, he's earned the right to it for sure.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Trev on October 02, 2020, 01:08:10 PM
Dino said to just look it up online for all the details, only stuff I could find was a few reports from October last year. Guessing there's been a lot of things changed since that point
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Kunt 4 Life on October 02, 2020, 06:30:43 PM
Sure Thinn Lizzy carried on without founding members, didn't they?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: The Butcher on October 03, 2020, 08:46:25 PM
Quote from: Emphyrio on October 01, 2020, 12:19:37 PM
Glad I caught the Demanufacture reunion when it rolled around.

Same, great gig in fairness.

This whole thing is a clusterfuck.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on October 03, 2020, 10:01:20 PM
I blame Olde Wolbers for the whole thing and that is purely based on the fact that someone said he was responsible for most of Digimortal.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Blackout on October 04, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
With Lombardo it's a real head scratcher as to why he agreed such a low salary in the first place. My thinking is Kerry and co probably told him they had Bostaph now so agree to this contract or you can fuck off.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on October 04, 2020, 06:52:34 PM
I remember Greg Christian falling out with Testament for similar reasons. I think they rejoin as a hired gun that gets paid per show or gets a salary and then they crack up when they realise how much more the other lads are making. When Dave Ellefson rejoined Megadeth he did it as a salaried member too.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Wiseblood on October 04, 2020, 09:30:18 PM
Dave Ellefson is on Jobbridge  :laugh:
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Caomhaoin on October 11, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
Same as Paul, they were a cool band initially but they went to absolute pot after 'Obsolete'.

Also, I burst out laughing at that bit in the blurb 'depraved deceit'🤣🤣🤣🤣 Must have been a lyric he wrote in his cóipleabhar years ago but never got a chance to use it.

'Depraved Deceit'. Chalk it down, ya :)
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on October 11, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 11, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
Same as Paul, they were a cool band initially but they went to absolute pot after 'Obsolete'.

Also, I burst out laughing at that bit in the blurb 'depraved deceit'🤣🤣🤣🤣 Must have been a lyric he wrote in his cóipleabhar years ago but never got a chance to use it.

'Depraved Deceit'. Chalk it down, ya :)

One for the lyric video! Mechanize was still decent last time I listened to it, but utterly alone in that respect over the last few albums. Gonna throw it on now actually.. Edit, yeah it's ripping.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Trev on October 11, 2020, 01:48:07 PM
Quote from: astfgyl on October 11, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
Quote from: Caomhaoin on October 11, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
Same as Paul, they were a cool band initially but they went to absolute pot after 'Obsolete'.

Also, I burst out laughing at that bit in the blurb 'depraved deceit'🤣🤣🤣🤣 Must have been a lyric he wrote in his cóipleabhar years ago but never got a chance to use it.

'Depraved Deceit'. Chalk it down, ya :)

One for the lyric video! Mechanize was still decent last time I listened to it, but utterly alone in that respect over the last few albums. Gonna throw it on now actually.. Edit, yeah it's ripping.
Ah Genexus was decent too, but it was just trying to be a clone of Mechanize. Could switch a load of songs between the two albums and I probably wouldn't even notice
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on October 11, 2020, 06:49:39 PM
Gonna be honest here and say I can't remember a note off Genexus
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on October 11, 2020, 07:21:40 PM
I can say that about all of the post-Archetype albums. All I remember about Transgression is that it was fucking awful, but the next three just blended into one and left no impression whatsoever.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Blackout on October 11, 2020, 08:50:09 PM
Loved Archetype and Demanufacture and never really got into any other of their albums bar a few tracks. Also the demolition racer demos are killer (has my favourite version of "will there never be an end" https://youtu.be/QVzVIgyrT_s ).
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Necro Red on October 13, 2020, 10:16:24 AM
Was a big fan boy in my youth. Demanufacture is still one of my all time favourite albums and it was great to see it played live in its entirety a few years back. I thought Mechanize was a real return to form, but the last album I found a bit bland and have lost interest. Shame to see how childish "professional" musicians can be and the example they set.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 18, 2023, 12:50:45 PM
Well here we are - Dino will announce the worst kept secret in metal later by revealing the new vocalist. Seems to be a lad called Milo from Italy, he had a rake of covers done which were pulled from all his social media channels last year.

The band have been pretty consistent, I've enjoyed everything from Mechanize onwards but I do think this is the wrong choice, I watched a few of the clips before they were pulled and there's a bit of a Euro Lacuna Coil type vibe from the vocals that makes the whole thing go into cringe territory. We'll see now when the new track goes up...
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 18, 2023, 12:59:31 PM
Got ahead of myself, the announcement is Tuesday. Still, point stands Fear Factory without Burton won't really be Fear Factory - even though his capabilities are on the decline.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on February 18, 2023, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on February 18, 2023, 12:59:31 PMGot ahead of myself, the announcement is Tuesday. Still, point stands Fear Factory without Burton won't really be Fear Factory - even though his capabilities are on the decline.

Will they pull a sepultura I wonder and make rakes of sort of ok albums that no-one listens to after the first month? Oh wait, too late!!

If there's an album I'll likely give it at least one chance.

Now off to listen to mechanize with me
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on February 18, 2023, 06:02:35 PM
I don't think it'll be a Sepultura situation where they cling to the wrong choice and let the ship sink out of stubborness. I can see it being a revolving door for vocalists now in Fear Factory. There'll be a different singer every time it suits Dino.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 18, 2023, 06:29:44 PM
Think the Sepultura comparisons are slightly unfair- I think they've remained credible without releasing any classics post Max's departure. In fact they've probably done the right thing given the state of any of the footage of any of Max's live work recently.

Just get the impression Dino wants to run the operation for peanuts, in fact Gene Hoglan stated as much in an interview after quitting just after Mechanize.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on February 18, 2023, 07:03:35 PM
Asesino and Divine Heresy were both dogshit, and now that Dino has complete control, FF will inevitably go the same way. The last album was his (post Bell) re-edited version of its original form and was instantly forgettable, that's the shape of things to come for FF. Not that they hadn't been coasting anyway, the last one that stood out for me was Archetype but at least Bell's vocals were there, and they stood out.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on February 18, 2023, 08:30:02 PM
I actually had a funny one a few months ago where a former session drummer for Fear Factory messaged me on Facebook asking for contact info for Stereo Nasty's ex vocalist. Obviously it was for something else but for a second there I thought Dino must be really searching high and low.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Thorn on February 19, 2023, 04:14:46 AM
 Was looking to see who to credit with the snazzy thread title, Juggz, where did he get to?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on February 19, 2023, 05:16:56 AM
.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: open face surgery on February 19, 2023, 02:34:33 PM
 :abbath:
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 21, 2023, 05:38:33 PM
And there it is Milo announced. Really milking it too, they've released a video and not a shred of vocals on it.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on February 21, 2023, 06:01:58 PM
Came across this, hard to tell from a song I don't really know but he sounds similar enough to Bell. A bit thin on the melodic parts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FearFactory/comments/10om3jd/milo_silvestro_of_fear_factory_singing_dielectric/
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Anton Arcane on February 21, 2023, 07:43:24 PM
Quote from: Carnage on February 21, 2023, 06:01:58 PMCame across this, hard to tell from a song I don't really know but he sounds similar enough to Bell. A bit thin on the melodic parts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FearFactory/comments/10om3jd/milo_silvestro_of_fear_factory_singing_dielectric/


That accent is going to take some getting used to.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 21, 2023, 09:42:26 PM
Yeah sounds similar and voice is in better shape but the accent makes it sound so corny
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Circlepit on February 21, 2023, 10:22:47 PM
This lad is doomed no matter what.
In that clip he does all the bits and he does it well but it's like a very good copy of the original Bell style of singing.
I"d day Dino won't let him take a shit without asking first.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Eoin McLove on February 21, 2023, 11:11:39 PM
I think it's a bit ridiculous finding a singer who imitates your original vocalist. It seems like a tribute act rather than a real band now. Perhaps Bell leaving or being booted out (I don't know the background story) could have been taken as an opportunity for reinvention, but I suppose the band isn't exactly known for its diversity. Makes no odds to me I suppose as I only ever got into Demanufacture, just seems like a strange and self defeating move.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: blessed1 on February 21, 2023, 11:28:19 PM
I can't say I ever thought this band was ever that good bar a few songs here and there.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Hellyeah on February 22, 2023, 05:59:02 PM
Quote from: Carnage on February 21, 2023, 06:01:58 PMCame across this, hard to tell from a song I don't really know but he sounds similar enough to Bell. A bit thin on the melodic parts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FearFactory/comments/10om3jd/milo_silvestro_of_fear_factory_singing_dielectric/
He's got a set of pipes on him for sure, but will he have a stage presence, time will tell.Interested to see how this pans out. Its a pity how things ended with burton. Caught them on the 20th anniversary tour of demanufacture and was surprised how good they were.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on February 22, 2023, 07:44:45 PM
Yeah it's going to be mock
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 28, 2023, 09:32:20 AM
Hard to know what to make, footage isn't the best

https://blabbermouth.net/news/watch-fear-factory-plays-first-show-with-new-singer-milo-silvestro
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on February 28, 2023, 12:31:38 PM
Seems to be an out and out impression of Bell, haircut and all. Sounded OK but again, I'm not familiar with that song, I'd want to hear an older one to get a guage on it.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on February 28, 2023, 12:36:29 PM
Shock is up there aswell but the footage is even worse.

Just looked at the setlist there - they played Archetype which I think is gas given that Dino wasn't involved in the record and the song is about him. Fair play, so many bands ignore records from their catalogue it's great to see he realises it's simply a cool track and people like it.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on February 28, 2023, 06:36:41 PM
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on February 28, 2023, 12:36:29 PMShock is up there aswell but the footage is even worse.

Just looked at the setlist there - they played Archetype which I think is gas given that Dino wasn't involved in the record and the song is about him. Fair play, so many bands ignore records from their catalogue it's great to see he realises it's simply a cool track and people like it.

That is actually really funny given what the tune is and also what cazares himself had to say about that album
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on February 28, 2023, 06:42:25 PM
I'd imagine it's Cazares' subtle 'fuck you' to Bell, he's fond of petty digs in his direction.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on February 28, 2023, 06:57:29 PM
Quote from: Carnage on February 28, 2023, 06:42:25 PMI'd imagine it's Cazares' subtle 'fuck you' to Bell, he's fond of petty digs in his direction.

Didn't think of that actually but that's surely it
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Hellyeah on February 28, 2023, 07:07:24 PM
He looks like burtons love child. :P
Hope in time he puts his own stamp on it.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on February 28, 2023, 08:19:37 PM
Quote from: Hellyeah on February 28, 2023, 07:07:24 PMHe looks like burtons love child. :P
Hope in time he puts his own stamp on it.

Like Derrick Greene?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: The Great Cull on February 28, 2023, 09:00:38 PM
Derrick took a few albums to get into the swing of things. He is immense on the last few albums, especially Quadra. I don't think too many bands will afford anyone any time to develop now, so this poor guy is against it from the get go.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Hellyeah on February 28, 2023, 09:09:20 PM


Like Derrick Greene?
[/quote]

Well he had an advantage, he did not look like Max. :P
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on March 01, 2023, 08:24:37 AM
Or sound like Max to be fair. He introduced a lot of aspects to the mix like clean singing for example on Against straight off the bat. So whether you're a fan or not, nobody could accuse Derrick of being a clone.


Looking a bit more at the Fear Factory stuff, this guy is a clone in all respects - he even has the same fucking haircut as Burton. You can hear the vocals better here too, voice in better shape but jesus it's cheesey.

https://youtu.be/IoNLEiBYaO4?t=111
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Necro Red on March 01, 2023, 10:13:21 AM
Ironic the new singer being called a clone considering the bands subject matter
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on March 01, 2023, 11:10:17 AM
Quote from: Pagan Saviour on March 01, 2023, 08:24:37 AMOr sound like Max to be fair. He introduced a lot of aspects to the mix like clean singing for example on Against straight off the bat. So whether you're a fan or not, nobody could accuse Derrick of being a clone.


Looking a bit more at the Fear Factory stuff, this guy is a clone in all respects - he even has the same fucking haircut as Burton. You can hear the vocals better here too, voice in better shape but jesus it's cheesey.

https://youtu.be/IoNLEiBYaO4?t=111

Yeah it does feel very cheesy even though he's actually going better live than Bell has been for years. Don't think I'd be bothered to go see them all the same
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Bürggermeister on March 01, 2023, 11:13:20 AM
FF have been fairly one-dimensional since they started. Adding a different kind of singer now would probably alienate whatever fans they have left. They've chosen the nostalgia-act route, Dino knows his rut is where the money is.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on March 11, 2024, 01:29:46 PM
Laughable new track from Burton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejssq84_4TA

Deep lyrics too

QuoteI'd rather be dead than a slave to the factory."
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on March 11, 2024, 01:46:27 PM
Jaysus that's awful. How long 'til he and Dino 'reconcile' and he's back as a Fear Factory salaryman?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Ducky on March 11, 2024, 03:14:29 PM
Oh my, how the mediocre have fallen.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: John Kimble on March 11, 2024, 04:56:29 PM
That's all a bit ho-hum really. Burton is still stuck in that early to mid nineties techno-paranoia when we were waiting for Skynet to go online. In fact, that's just a slight variation on the Terminator theme music set to a bog standard industrial slow beat. 
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: KingHostile on March 11, 2024, 05:06:14 PM
Die Krupps 2024 ... great!
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 05:56:41 PM
Eeeek!
Jaysus its bad when ya can only stick two mins. of a three and a half min. song.

Meant to mention this a few times when FF were being discussed and never did - Concrete is a fucking great album, never gets a mention for some reason.
One of their best in my opinion.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on March 11, 2024, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: KingHostile on March 11, 2024, 05:06:14 PMDie Krupps 2024 ... great!

Yeah that sounds about right. It's no worse than what ff have been peddling for years anyway it's just very mediocre is all
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on March 11, 2024, 07:17:21 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 05:56:41 PMMeant to mention this a few times when FF were being discussed and never did - Concrete is a fucking great album, never gets a mention for some reason.
One of their best in my opinion.

I'd kinda forgotten about it, it was released without much fanfare. Primitive compared to even Soul Of A New Machine but decent enough. I picked that and Hatefiles up the same day and I'd just chanced upon them in a generic music shop in Athlone, had never heard of them. I think they were rushed out to fulfil Cazeres' contract with Roadrunner after he was out of FF, or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 08:08:03 PM
Yeah, something like that, there's a very romantic, idealistic explanation of its release in the booklet but I couldn't be arsed reading it now. I love the rawness of it and its far deathier than what followed.
Theres a live Album called Immortal Combat with the same cover art as Hatefiles released around the same time too.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Sworntothecans on March 11, 2024, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 05:56:41 PMEeeek!
Jaysus its bad when ya can only stick two mins. of a three and a half min. song.

Meant to mention this a few times when FF were being discussed and never did - Concrete is a fucking great album, never gets a mention for some reason.
One of their best in my opinion.

Concrete's what got Robinson the Korn gig (and allegedly where Korn got their sound)and Dino's been salty ever since!
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 10:24:47 PM
Quote from: Sworntothecans on March 11, 2024, 10:13:54 PM
Quote from: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 05:56:41 PMEeeek!
Jaysus its bad when ya can only stick two mins. of a three and a half min. song.

Meant to mention this a few times when FF were being discussed and never did - Concrete is a fucking great album, never gets a mention for some reason.
One of their best in my opinion.



Concrete's what got Robinson the Korn gig (and allegedly where Korn got their sound)and Dino's been salty ever since!

Ha Ha, it wouldn't surprise me.

looked up that Immortal Combat cd there and apparently its a bootleg, I thought it was official, has roadrunner logos and all on it.
Also just realised I have it over 20 years and never actually listened to it! must give it an auld spin for the craic.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on March 11, 2024, 10:36:56 PM
Ah rught, I was wondering why I'd never heard of it. Might be interesting to hear it, Bell's long been criticised for his live vocals.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Sworntothecans on March 11, 2024, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: Carnage on March 11, 2024, 10:36:56 PMAh rught, I was wondering why I'd never heard of it. Might be interesting to hear it, Bell's long been criticised for his live vocals.

He'd be gassed about a third of the way through the sets. I've always been kinda glad I still haven't seen them live as I knew it'd be rough.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Eoin McLove on March 11, 2024, 11:25:42 PM
It would be gas if Bell set up his own band a s got a Dino imitator in to write the music. Cheer Fattory.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on March 11, 2024, 11:37:36 PM
 :laugh:

I saw them twice and he was fine then, if memory serves. A long time ago now though, Demanufacture and Obsolete tours.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 11:41:57 PM
Quote from: Sworntothecans on March 11, 2024, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: Carnage on March 11, 2024, 10:36:56 PMAh rught, I was wondering why I'd never heard of it. Might be interesting to hear it, Bell's long been criticised for his live vocals.

He'd be gassed about a third of the way through the sets. I've always been kinda glad I still haven't seen them live as I knew it'd be rough.

I saw them in the Ambassador years ago and I thought they were great (I was stone mad into them at the time), but now that ya mention it, if memory serves, he spent a fair while with a foot up on one of the boxes and his elbow on his knee.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: son of the Morrigan on March 11, 2024, 11:47:29 PM
Quote from: Eoin McLove on March 11, 2024, 11:25:42 PMIt would be gas if Bell set up his own band a s got a Dino imitator in to write the music. Cheer Fattory.

 :laugh:
Your a gas cunt yourself.

Hey, am I mad or was the bauld Dino in a porn flick, or was that just some rumour that went around, or am I thinking of one of the many erotic dreams I've had about him?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Carnage on March 12, 2024, 12:44:53 AM
I remember hearing that as well. It was around the time of Remanufacture when they were tracksuit afficianados, and there was a trend for the hippity hop types making porn films. I think Dino thought he was one of that crew and turned up in one but I can't imagine him getting up to much. I really don't want to imagine that at all.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: son of the Morrigan on March 12, 2024, 01:39:05 AM
Ah good man, I'd rather not imagine it myself, be around the same time the Biohazard boyo did one.(He cocked a 9mm at some young wans dome)
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on March 12, 2024, 07:41:38 AM
Ah Dino being in a porn is a generous statement. Background supporting artist would probably cover it.

Your man Evan from Biohazard was in more than one - it was his full time gig for a few years.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Circlepit on March 12, 2024, 10:24:50 AM
If Dino was in a porn he was giving some fella a tit wank.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: jobrok1 on March 12, 2024, 05:32:27 PM
Quote from: Circlepit on March 12, 2024, 10:24:50 AMIf Dino was in a porn he was giving some fella a tit wank.
Did you get off on it?
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: jpm4 on March 12, 2024, 06:11:45 PM
This reminds me of Tairre B's take down of Dino from many years back, which is pretty funny:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/my-ruin-s-tairrie-b-dino-cazares-is-a-worthless-piece-of-shit
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Trev on March 12, 2024, 06:42:54 PM
I herd about that years ago and just assumed it was some urban legend, like Marilyn Manson being in the Wonder Years

But I just looked it up and...
QuoteUltimate-Guitar.com: I hear you have a passion for making homemade porn movies?

Dino Cazares: Yeah, I have a lot of stuff that I've collected over the years. I've been contemplating about putting it all together and putting it out. But a lot of kids wouldn't be able to buy it because they would too young. I enjoy making appearances in a lot of my own home porn movies and like I said even if I could compile it all together, a lot of the kids wouldn't get to see it. Put it this way — I would get in to trouble if somebody under the legal age bought it. Unless that is, I put out a censored version, where everything is cut out. But then it wouldn't be worth watching!

Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Circlepit on March 12, 2024, 07:02:06 PM
Quote from: jobrok1 on March 12, 2024, 05:32:27 PM
Quote from: Circlepit on March 12, 2024, 10:24:50 AMIf Dino was in a porn he was giving some fella a tit wank.
Did you get off on it?
[/quote

How could I not.
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: astfgyl on March 12, 2024, 08:05:34 PM
Quote from: Trev on March 12, 2024, 06:42:54 PMI herd about that years ago and just assumed it was some urban legend, like Marilyn Manson being in the Wonder Years

But I just looked it up and...
QuoteUltimate-Guitar.com: I hear you have a passion for making homemade porn movies?

Dino Cazares: Yeah, I have a lot of stuff that I've collected over the years. I've been contemplating about putting it all together and putting it out. But a lot of kids wouldn't be able to buy it because they would too young. I enjoy making appearances in a lot of my own home porn movies and like I said even if I could compile it all together, a lot of the kids wouldn't get to see it. Put it this way — I would get in to trouble if somebody under the legal age bought it. Unless that is, I put out a censored version, where everything is cut out. But then it wouldn't be worth watching!



Jaysus. Then again people watch Ron Jeremy so I guess there'll be a market
Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Skott Furys jizz rag on March 13, 2024, 05:17:45 PM
From the bands FB page

"Looking for a pro bassist to fill in for Tony Campos whenever he's on tour with Static X.

Must Haves:

1)Plays With A Pick (no fingers)
2)Touring Experience
3)Up to date Passport
4)No criminal record
5)No hard drugs
6)Not an alcoholic but must be able to walk a straight line after a bottle of tequila (cause Tony can do it)
7)Plays well with others
8)5 string bass
9)In-ear monitors  required for click track.
10)USA residence preferred
11)Post a video performing Fuel Injected Suicide Machine
12)Ego is not your Amigo

*Serious Inquiries Only*"

Title: Re: Bell's end?
Post by: Pagan Saviour on March 13, 2024, 05:59:44 PM
Shambolic.